last december i bought a Ascendant Audio Assassin (12") and stuck it in a 2.6 cu ft enclosure (tuned to 30 hz). the amp is a dayton 240w plate (gain about 1/2, x/o about 65 hz). the problem im having is whereever in my bedroom i stick it, the bass is only on the walls (i also tried flipping the phase too).

the only time the bass is projected throughout my whole room is in my closet, but its a bit too slow for my tastes. (it was quite monstrous at 1/4 gain too).

im planning on building a different box, but do you think this will solve my problem?

i will provide pics when i get home, thanks

NO! This is a room problem and not a subwoofer problem. Try changing sub location/seating location....measure FR and let us see what happens

thanks, ill keep on switching up locations

whats the easiest way to measure FR throughout a room?

Welcome to standing waves. Your room/sub location is the issue here.

whereever in my bedroom i stick it, the bass is only on the walls

Others suggested trying different places, and that's valid. But no matter where you put it there will always be many peaks and deep nulls. The only true solution is bass traps. See my Acoustics FAQ:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Then follow up here with any questions.

--Ethan

would this be a possible cause? right now its in the corner of my room front firing along my one wall (about 4" away from each wall) and is under my long desk.

would downfiring help standing waves at all?

Others suggested trying different places, and that's valid. But no matter where you put it there will always be many peaks and deep nulls. The only true solution is bass traps. See my Acoustics FAQ:

Then follow up here with any questions.

--Ethan

thanks, ill read the whole thing when i get home

[QUOTE=Ethan Winer]Others suggested trying different places, and that's valid. But no matter where you put it there will always be many peaks and deep nulls. The only true solution is bass traps. See my Acoustics FAQ:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Then follow up here with any questions.

--Ethan[/QUOTE

I think only equalization can treat room anomalies below 100 Hz from a practical point of view...what do you think?

Others suggested trying different places, and that's valid. But no matter where you put it there will always be many peaks and deep nulls. The only true solution is bass traps. See my Acoustics FAQ:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

Then follow up here with any questions.

--Ethan

I think only equalization can treat room anomalies below 100 Hz from a practical point of view...what do you think?

update: i rotated my sub 90 degrees, put it back into phase and turned up the gain a bit. result: more even bass throughout the room, but the edges are still boosted. thats normal, right?

heres an awkward view of how my setup was, and the sub is now facing forward into my bed

http://i18.tinypic.com/669oetu.jpg

You will almost always have stronger bass near walls than towards the middle of the room. Bass traps can do a lot to reduce peaks and increase nulls throughout the room, while EQ will only even out the response at the listening position (or wherever you put the microphone), and will do nothing to tame decay time issues.

So yes, it's normal to have stronger bass near walls.

Bass traps can do a lot to reduce peaks and increase nulls throughout the room, while EQ will only even out the response at the listening position (or wherever you put the microphone), and will do nothing to tame decay time issues.



Of course you are not talking about deep bass, are you :D

I think only equalization can treat room anomalies below 100 Hz from a practical point of view...what do you think?

That's not true. Good bass traps can be effective down to 50 or even 40 Hz if you have enough of them. Below that a small amount of EQ is useful.

--Ethan

That's not true. Good bass traps can be effective down to 50 or even 40 Hz if you have enough of them. Below that a small amount of EQ is useful.

--Ethan

Of course, maybe even to 20 Hz, but what will be the thinkness ? Normally the deeper the bass, the more thickness you need, and I think below 80-100, it is becoming unpractical or at least unfeasible to trap bass. Correct me if I'm wrong.

the deeper the bass, the more thickness you need, and I think below 80-100, it is becoming unpractical or at least unfeasible to trap bass.
Yes, thickness is necessary to get to lower frequencies. You also need more total surface coverage. But you can definitely make a real improvement down to maybe 40 Hz using a practical number of "normal" size traps - say, 4 inches thick. The graph below shows the response and ringing in my living room. As you can see, the only peak that's not fully controlled is the one below 30 Hz. I do have a lot of bass traps! But most are only three inches thick.

--Ethan

http://www.realtraps.com/ethan-ht.gif

And to piggyback on Ethan's comments, below you will see the before and after results of using corner bass traps and 4" acoustical panels to trap bass and even out response in my room.

These before/after results demonstrate that there are real results down to a little below 40 hz.

BEFORE - Low Frequency Waterfall of Decay Times:
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/attach//816847-3beforelowfreqwaterfall.JPG

AFTER - Low Frequency Waterfall of Decay Times:
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/attach//816848-4afterlowfreqwaterfall.JPG

Definitely treat your room first, before applying EQ.

Tim

Well, I see some improvements, but see how this is effective at 120-140 Hz.... But below 80, I believe an equalizer will be the most efficient.

No doubt the 120-140 range was drastically improved. Note also though the significant reduction of ringing down to about 40hz. That huge standing wave centered around 42hz is nearly all but gone, though the big one right below it around 38hz is still there.

The clarity that these treatments alone brought to my room cannot be understated.

Your mileage may certainly vary.

Tim

blaser,

I think you need to do a little more research and realize who it is your disagreeing with. :)

blaser,

I think you need to do a little more research and realize who it is your disagreeing with. :)

Do you mean that I am "too small" to disagree :D

I think you need to do a little more research to realize why at a certain point, equalization will be easier, more practical and cost effective than bass traps :)

Well, I have to admit that point is obviously not 80-100 Hz according to the experts here....maybe below 40-50 Hz, but also not everybody can accept to sacrifice 4" from each wall (Is it only 4" when someone's having a strong room mode at 35 Hz like me? is it all the wall? I do not know....) or so :p

IMO, I think bass traps will be best to solve frequency Dips problems, that equalizers cannot.

Another major benefit of bass trap is to minimize the difference in loudness between the right and left ear due to lateral room mode....The closer ear from a corner/side wall will hear more bass (at the lateral room mode boosted frequencies) than the far ear. Only bass traps and/or dual subs could solve this problem, and again not equalization....

Opinions?

Do you mean that I am "too small" to disagree :D

I think you need to do a little more research to realize why at a certain point, equalization will be easier, more practical and cost effective than bass traps :)

Blaser, with all due respect:

Ethan Winer is as close to the almighty god of acoustics as one can get in this forum. He's done more research than you could realistically do in your lifetime. He's given MASTER CLASSES on the subject. If I were you, I would accept what he's telling you like it's gold... because it is. If the knowledge you have in regards to acoustics differs from what he's telling you, I would suggest finding some way to erase your memory banks (I've heard that electrical shock therapy works well :p ). Then, you can start over by reading the following and moving on from there:

http://www.ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html

I've got close to $15,000 in gear that says that you will not be able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that any of his principles are flawed to the point you are suggesting. :eek:

EDIT: I forgot to mention the other two great guys, Glenn and Bryan from GIK Acoustics! Sorry guys!

IMO, I think bass traps will be best to solve frequency Dips problems, that equalizers cannot. Is it wrong?

It helps the dips for sure, but that's just a small part of it. I just added a second sub and have a better room response. I also have an BFD as an EQ. My response at my listening position is as flat as my first girlfriend was. BUT, I STILL have MAJOR standing waves that my EQ simply cannot fix. There is nothing I can do for my room except to get some bass traps. I've definitely proven that fact to myself this weekend. My only problem is, living and Canada, my shipping and duties costs will be almost as high as the cost of the panels since I have been yet to find a Canadian manufacturer of equal quality. You guys in the States are lucky buggers!

Blaser, with all due respect:

Ethan Winer is as close to the almighty god of acoustics as one can get in this forum. He's done more research than you could realistically do in your lifetime.


This is sure, but how do you know the research I did in my lifetime :D


If the knowledge you have in regards to acoustics differs from what he's telling you, I would suggest finding some way to erase your memory banks (I've heard that electrical shock therapy works well :p ).

Isn't there a less painful way? :D No, seriously...I never claimed to be as knowledgeable as Ethan, I had heard from other experts that deep bass is efficiently and practically better treated by equalizers....That's all. But I do respect Ethan, and even smaller than Ethan :)

I've got close to $15,000 in gear that says that you will not be able to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that any of his principles are flawed to the point you are suggesting. :eek:

Well, this means you are a rich man, but does not necessarily mean you are knowledgeable :p
By the way I never said Ethan's principles are flawed :confused: Pls do not send me to jail :D Even Ethan agreed with me that a small amount of equalization will help down low ;)

This is sure, but how do you know the research I did in my lifetime :D


Isn't there a less painful way? :D No, seriously...I never claimed to be as knowledgeable as Ethan, I had heard from other experts that deep bass is efficiently and practically better treated by equalizers....That's all. But I do respect Ethan, and even smaller than Ethan :)


Well, this means you are a rich man, but does not necessarily mean you are knowledgeable :p
By the way I never said Ethan's principles are flawed :confused: Pls do not send me to jail :D Even Ethan agreed with me that a small amount of equalization will help down low ;)

I never said that I was knowledgeable. I said that I bet that you couldn't disprove his theories to the point you are suggesting. It has nothing to do with what I know or what I don't know. I'm still a newbie at all this but I'm learning alot using Ethan's articles as my textbook. Thanks again, Ethan! ;)

I never said that I was knowledgeable. I said that I bet that you couldn't disprove his theories to the point you are suggesting. It has nothing to do with what I know or what I don't know. I'm still a newbie at all this but I'm learning alot using Ethan's articles as my textbook. Thanks again, Ethan! ;)

I was only joking with you my friend:D .

I do not disagree with his theories...as you said he is a master, and I know it a long time ago!!! It seems that I was mislead about bass traps vs equalizers from other experts..... From reading his articles, things get clearer to the point that I am more and more interested in bass traps myself :D

By the way, being a rich man does also not mean that you are not knowledgeable either:D :D :D Indeed, your posts are very good and you have certainly some good experience ;)

I was only joking with you my friend:D .

I do not disagree with his theories...as you said he is a master, and I know it a long time ago!!! It seems that I was mislead about bass traps vs equalizers from other experts..... From reading his articles, things get clearer to the point that I am more and more interested in bass traps myself :D

By the way, being a rich man does also not mean that you are not knowledgeable either:D :D :D Indeed, your posts are very good and you have certainly some good experience ;)

Thanks, Blaser. Oh, and by the way, I'm not rich.... I just keep getting credit cards in the mail and don't want them to go to waste :D

Generally a combination of treatment and EQ is required. Treatment will yield improvements down into the 50's easily from reasonably sized treatments. It also deals with it throughout the room and also in the time (decay) domain. EQ should be reserved for the end to deal with pesky peaks (EQ is ineffective and can even be dangerous to your equipment in dealing with nulls).

Unfortunately, you're stuck with a bad position for the sub to start with (in the corner and under a desk causing tons of resonances and cancellations).

Bryan

And to piggyback on Ethan's comments, below you will see the before and after results of using corner bass traps and 4" acoustical panels to trap bass and even out response in my room.

These before/after results demonstrate that there are real results down to a little below 40 hz.

BEFORE - Low Frequency Waterfall of Decay Times:
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/attach//816847-3beforelowfreqwaterfall.JPG

AFTER - Low Frequency Waterfall of Decay Times:
http://www.hometheaterspot.com/attach//816848-4afterlowfreqwaterfall.JPG

Definitely treat your room first, before applying EQ.

Tim

Tim we are going to have to put those on our website!!!!!!!!! :D

Glenn

Ovalnut, I couldnt find your original thread for some reason (I don't particularly care for the search function on forums that use this template), but how many traps did it take to get the improvement?

Thx!

Glenn,
You are welcome to post those results images to your website. Thanks for delivering great products at a very reasonable cost.

Jonomega,
The thread with all the details is not here, but at HomeTheaterSpot. Here's the link to the thread over there:

Oval's Nutty Room Gets the Treatment from GIK Acoustics (http://hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/134369/)

The GIK treatments I used are:

4 - 244 panels
4 - 242 panels
1 - custom sized 242 panel (28"h x 24"w)
3 - Tri-Traps


Tim

Glenn,
You are welcome to post those results images to your website. Thanks for delivering great products at a very reasonable cost.

Jonomega,
The thread with all the details is not here, but at HomeTheaterSpot. Here's the link to the thread over there:

Oval's Nutty Room Gets the Treatment from GIK Acoustics (http://hometheaterspot.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/134369/)

The GIK treatments I used are:

4 - 244 panels
4 - 242 panels
1 - custom sized 242 panel (28"h x 24"w)
3 - Tri-Traps


Tim


Thats quite a unique room, looks nice!