Official Outlaw Owners thread [Text View] - Page 22

khalid7412002

02-10-12, 01:08 AM

So a follow up to my earlier post regarding the use of a kef sub alongside the LFM.

I went to radio shack to pick up an SPL meter and was able to find the analog version for $14.97 on clearance. They also had the digital one but for $50ish, so I decided on the analog version.

I didn't really play around with the SPL meter as I would like to read some online guides as how to correctly use it.

So I ran the audyssey calibration first with only the kef sub connected. I did this because the kef doesn't have a gain level control; however, the Outlaw does, which makes it easier to match it to the kef versus the other way around. On the first run, audyssey set the sub trim to -2.0. I ran it a few more times just to make sure it kept getting the same result, as cars kept driving by, fridge kept kicking on, people doing lawn work, etc.

Then I connected only the outlaw, set gain level on the sub itself to level 2, ran audyssey with a result of AVR sub trim set to +2.0.
So I raised gain level on the sub itself to 3, ran audyssey, and got AVR trim set to -2.5. So I lowered gain on the sub to 2.4ish, ran audyssey, and got AVR trim set to -2.0, matching the kef trim level.

This is why the more knowledgeable members on this thread recommend adjusting the sub trim only via the AVR versus the sub itself; a single digit gain change on the sub resulted in a 4db change on the receiver.

At this point I connected both and ran through the full audyssey calibration, yielding a combined AVR trim level at a -2.5. My Fronts were set to 60 Hz crossover, which I raised to 80, and the rest were set to 80. Dynamic Eq is on, dynamic volume is off.

Just to get a feel for the SPL meter, I tested each speaker at 70 db range, C weighting with a slow response. For the most part, all my speakers register at a +5 except my center, which registers at around +3 or +4.

So my question is this, is the "best" method to use the SPL meter and adjust everything to register at 75 db at this point after running audyssey MultEq XT?

Also to make sure I am understanding the phase correctly, I should connect one sub only, see what it registers on the SPL, then connect the other sub and it should register +3db right? what if it adds more than +3?

Also, I use a specific scene from the movie Despicable Me to test out the sub, I don't have the chapter info memorized, but it is the scene where the rocket ship is launched into space to shrink the moon. This scene absolutely destroys the subs when having the volume around -30db. Only scene from any of my movies that forces me to turn down the volume for fear of my sub blowing a hole in the side of the house.

Anyone who has that movie care to test that scene and report back?

Thanks for any help.

mrjktcvs

02-10-12, 07:46 AM

Also to make sure I am understanding the phase correctly, I should connect one sub only, see what it registers on the SPL, then connect the other sub and it should register +3db right? what if it adds more than +3?

Adjust the Ex's gain so that it is +3 dB. Flip the polarity switch and measure again.

SmokenAshes

02-10-12, 08:10 AM

I want my EX :( .... Hurry up Outlaw, build it and ship it lol, I'm getting anxious. My ARX speakers are on the way.

chashint

02-10-12, 08:18 AM

Hi all!
I have a MFW15 that needs replacement driver and amp so I am thinking to just get LFM-1 EX as a replacement. Anyone has done this? Will it be an upgrade or similar performance? I dont want to be dissappointed of course and would love to get a cheap MFW15 but since find parts is so hard, I dont see the point on that so I decided that the LFM-1 EX was the best option in my price range.
Thanks

From everything I have read when a MFW15 is working correctly there is no $550 sub (DIY excluded) that comes anywhere close to it.
So with that in mind ... no I personally do not think the EX will make you happy.

Reefdvr27

02-10-12, 10:25 AM

I want my EX :( .... Hurry up Outlaw, build it and ship it lol, I'm getting anxious. My ARX speakers are on the way. Are they back ordered? I had to wait an extra week for mine, but I was leaving for Florida a week after I ordered mine, so I had to put the delivery on hold and I had to wait another 5 days when I got home :(

Nice pick up on the ARX speakers! Another member suggested them to me when I was buying speakers a couple of months ago.

JD in NJ

02-10-12, 10:28 AM

Are they back ordered?

Yes, with an estimated shipping date of 2/27

Reefdvr27

02-10-12, 10:32 AM

You won't go wrong with either. I have the Marantz SR7005. The comparable Denon model has the latest Audyssey though. But again both model are great.
I gotta get on the phone today since I am not getting anywhere with emails! I should have probably researched receivers a little better before I jumped on the 609. I have been looking at the Marantz receivers for a few years and should have just shelled out the extra coin. See if I can work a deal out with the supplier. I jumped on the NR609 because I got a hot one day deal! Still not a bad receiver, but the tinting thing is driving me nuts!

Reefdvr27

02-10-12, 10:34 AM

Yes, with an estimated shipping date of 2/27 That last sale cleaned house I see!

SmokenAshes

02-10-12, 10:46 AM

Yes, with an estimated shipping date of 2/27

Yeah they sold out the day after I decided I want the EX. And after so much research I have no idea what other sub would be a viable option, my heart is set on the EX and there giving it to me for 549. Just have to wait I guess.

Skri///ex

02-10-12, 12:05 PM

Also, I use a specific scene from the movie Despicable Me to test out the sub, I don't have the chapter info memorized, but it is the scene where the rocket ship is launched into space to shrink the moon. This scene absolutely destroys the subs when having the volume around -30db. Only scene from any of my movies that forces me to turn down the volume for fear of my sub blowing a hole in the side of the house.

Anyone who has that movie care to test that scene and report back?

Thanks for any help.

I think that movie is still on hbo on demand so I will have to check it out and let you know.

***Spoiler alert for the movie knowing***

Also, caught the last half of the movie Knowing which has some insane lfe at the end which I didn't expect. When the alien space ship comes to pick up the kids the amount of output shook couch we were sitting on. (Master volume set to -15 Sub gain at 2, AVR sub trim set to +5.) Then when the world is ending and the solar rays are blowing everything up I thought the roof was coming down..and the best part is there not even a hic-up from the sub now that it is front firing.:cool:

JD in NJ

02-10-12, 12:07 PM

Yeah they sold out the day after I decided I want the EX. And after so much research I have no idea what other sub would be a viable option, my heart is set on the EX and there giving it to me for 549. Just have to wait I guess.

Same story here, pretty much, except I think I decided on the day they sold out.

Skri///ex

02-10-12, 12:40 PM

Also, for my own information, why is it important to not change the gain on the sub after running audyssey and to only change it on the AVR. I realize that it means audyssey cant account for changes when u move the sub gain but can i get more details on that. Such as what additional changes does audyssey account for besides just sending a stronger signal to the sub amp? I guess i am just curious of the intelligence of the technology in the avr and audyssey.
And to that point if I leave the sub gain to the low number i set it at to get the -3 to +3 range on the receiver, but than crank up the sub trim level on the avr is it intelligent enough to know when the sub is being overworked and keep if from bottoming out? Does it change signal aspects on towers as well to account for the changes? i have read some of the stickies on audyssey but there are some questions about the inner workings that I have purely to satisfy my own curiosity. Figured id ask knowing how much some people enjoy dropping knowledge and thought it was a good subject to weigh in on pertaining to tuning this sub.

cel4145

02-10-12, 01:55 PM

And to that point if I leave the sub gain to the low number i set it at to get the -3 to +3 range on the receiver, but than crank up the sub trim level on the avr is it intelligent enough to know when the sub is being overworked and keep if from bottoming out? Does it change signal aspects on towers as well to account for the changes? i have read some of the stickies on audyssey but there are some questions about the inner workings that I have purely to satisfy my own curiosity. Figured id ask knowing how much some people enjoy dropping knowledge and thought it was a good subject to weigh in on pertaining to tuning this sub.

Nope. The AVR doesn't know when you are bottoming out your sub. Your ears have to figure that out :)

MultiEQ is using parametric EQs that are meant to adjust the sub frequency response to match the towers. So anytime we boost the trim level or the sub gain up, we are pushing the whole sub frequency spectrum up from what was determined by Audyssey. The filters are still functioning the same.

I would wonder though if running the sub hot (either trim level or sub gain) might not make Dynamic EQ act funky because it's predicated on certain frequencies getting more boost at different volume levels. It's not linear. Maybe it's smart enough to account for the difference in db for the trim level it determined vs. if you boosted it (although I doubt it), but it would have no way of knowing that you boosted the sub gain.

cel4145

02-10-12, 02:03 PM

oleus

02-10-12, 02:06 PM

One other thought. Havok305 already pointed out (http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=21616277#post21616277) that when the sub gain is adjusted, a slight turn can be a be a big boost. To build on that, the sub gain is an analog dial, and it's not a linear volume level increase at different changes on the dial. And once changed, it's impossible to get it back to the exact same position that it was before (only close).

On the other hand, the trim level on the receiver uses a standard db increment. That also allows one to share with others how much they adjusted their sub up or down in a meaningful way. For example, someone can tell me that they adjusted their sub up from 2 o'clock to 2:30, but it has no meaning for me other than it's more; I can't know how much more SPL that is.

fwiw, to get my dual outlaws sounding "right" i do raise the gain a bit from where there were set during Ausyssey Multi EQ measurement (where it has you adjust LFE down to 75db before measurement of the room). If i simply use the AVR to raise it, it doesn't seem to have the same impact in heavy bass scenes, but also doesn't sound too hot or overcooked.

r2crd

02-10-12, 04:55 PM

nikerret

02-10-12, 07:01 PM

Trying the front fire method (FFM), now with my two month old LFM-Plus. Trying both ME and MO. During movies, I almost always use ME. Going through my reference selections, namely, Jurassic Park, the T-Rex scene. Watching TIHulk Chapter 10, now. Got the movie, never seen it, just jumped to where some recommended bass moments were.

http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee316/nikerret/FFM1.jpg

Using both modes, it does seem to have more "thump", but doesn't seem to hit as low. When the T-Rex growls, it really rumbles across the floor when sitting properly (DFM). FFM doesn't seem to resonate as much in my square room.

I did end up moving the speakers out a couple of inches each, was going to have to to make room for the EX, anyway. I'll update if there are any changes when I put it down-firing (DFM), again, with the new breathing room (a couple of inches on each side it didn't have, before). From the little I've fooled with it, I theorize the best performance will come from raising the sub, moreso than the spikes and disks. I have not tried this, yet. Still looking for good medium that can be permanent, if liked. It seems this sub needs more room to breath.

Part of the reason I say it needs more room to breath is that uber-fantastic smell that emits when a sub is new has completely filled my living room. It only took a few minutes after changing orientation before I noticed the smell. The only thing I had changed, at that point, was the orientation DFM to FFM. I hadn't smelled the sub in a couple of weeks and I have been doing several demos (at Ref Level). Today, the whole system was on for a couple of hours before doing this test, including music played around 0 and the sub set on MO and +10 on the AVR (I like bass with music) for over an hour.

One thing I found interesting was how low the VOLUME(sub gain) is after AUDYESSEY 2EQ set the AVR to -2db. I thought it was around 2. It is actually 1.5. I wasn't sure as the amp was against the wall and adjustments/pics were previously made/taken by reaching back, out of sight.
http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee316/nikerret/Plus.jpg

The excursion on the driver is minimal, given the output. I expected it to threaten the carpet more than it does in DFM. Excursion appears to be less than my JBL S312ii's twelve inch woofers when set to Full Range, and slightly more than when the AVR xover's are set at 80 HZ, approxiamtely, 10-15% more.

For my tests: I am using only my body. I have access to an SPL meter, but cannot run the sub alone. The small JBL sub to the left of the TV is more a midbass module, at this point, rated at 75 watts, 8" woofer down to 35 hz, it is turned low to avoid audible distortion.
Onkyo TX-SR608 is run at 0 (THX Reference Level) with no extra processing beyond turning the sub level up three db, as per my usual listening (sub level, not listening at 0). Dynamic EQ, Dyn Vol, Re-EQ....all turned "off".
Room was tuned with on-board AUDYSSEY 2EQ, all xovers were raised to 80 for speakers, LFE is at 120.

ETA: Floor is carpet (cheap) on concrete slab. More air is felt in FFM (well, duh...facing viewer), but still doesn't seem to dig as deep, effect-wise.

(Not sure why display looks so blue, looks good, in person. Damn iPhone4)

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-10-12, 08:47 PM

From everything I have read when a MFW15 is working correctly there is no $550 sub (DIY excluded) that comes anywhere close to it.
So with that in mind ... no I personally do not think the EX will make you happy.

Darn it. :(
Yes the MFW15 is a beast. If only finding replacement drivers was easier I would just fix mine and even get a second one but the situation is not good currently :(

FieldingMelish

02-10-12, 09:40 PM

jaramill

02-10-12, 10:48 PM

jaramill,
Where do you have the gain knob set on the sub? It looks like you need to lower the gain and re-run Audessey. By setting it at -12.5 db it thinks your sub is too loud and it's trying to back it down. You want to try to get it around +/- 3db if you can.

Hmmm for some reason I thought you were the other guy that just got a EX and had his at -12 but that was due to a 8033... Lower your subs "volume" level knob down a bit. You want Audyssesy to show it between +/-3 of 0. My Dual ex's are at 2.5ish

I usually shoot for -3db to 0 so that if I bump it up hot a couple, I'm still in that -3db to -3db range
Okay guys thanks for the help! Huge difference. I turned down the "gain" of the knob from 5 (middle) all the way down to 1 and here are my levels after re-running Audyssey in 3 listening positions.

Front Left: -5.5db
Front Center: -9.5db
Front Right: -6.0db
Subwoofer: -2.0db

Previously my subwoofer was at -12.5db!!!:eek: Also I reset the size of the speakers from LARGE(Audyssey sets them like that) to small, and also set the crossover frequencies from the fronts from 40hz to 80hz. I should be all set :)

Thanks again guys. Love AVS Forums.

And if you only have one sub and you are using Audyssey MutliEQ, I'm not sure what the SPL meter can do for you in terms of refining the calibration that Audyssey set. Maybe I'm wrong, but it usually seems to do pretty well.

Also to do those that have gone to Radio Shack, some may have it some may not, but they still do have SPL (Sound Pressure Level) meters available. One analog $15 or digital $50. I sprung for the digital one. I'm sure analog is fine but wanted to get digital. Just have to shop around and ask or look because sometimes the Sales People don't know what you're asking for. :) I'll play around with it tomorrow.

JChin

02-10-12, 11:16 PM

Okay guys thanks for the help! Huge difference. I turned down the "gain" of the knob from 5 (middle) all the way down to 1 and here are my levels after re-running Audyssey in 3 listening positions.

Hi jaramill, should run the full 8 position (instead of 3) if you own a SR7005 receiver. Unless you just testing for sub trim before running full 8.

oleus

02-11-12, 07:44 AM

mrjktcvs

02-11-12, 09:08 AM

Nope. The AVR doesn't know when you are bottoming out your sub. Your ears have to figure that out :)

MultiEQ is using parametric EQs that are meant to adjust the sub frequency response to match the towers. So anytime we boost the trim level or the sub gain up, we are pushing the whole sub frequency spectrum up from what was determined by Audyssey. The filters are still functioning the same.

I would wonder though if running the sub hot (either trim level or sub gain) might not make Dynamic EQ act funky because it's predicated on certain frequencies getting more boost at different volume levels. It's not linear. Maybe it's smart enough to account for the difference in db for the trim level it determined vs. if you boosted it (although I doubt it), but it would have no way of knowing that you boosted the sub gain.

That's one of the reasons I love my SMS-1 sub EQ. When playing music, I can use it crank up my pair of Pluses to the wife-approved levels of bass (she likes it higher than I do), then return it to the Audyssey-calculated level so that male voices don't sound bottom-heavy and LFE has just the right amount of oomph.

Saints

02-11-12, 11:58 AM

Hi guys. I'm thinking of adding a pair of LFM1-Plus subs to my setup. They're currently at $489 on the b stock with free shipping.

Have you seen a better sale for this sub on the b stock?

Thanks for your comments,

I got my b-stock for $449 and that is what they have been when they run the sales, but now seeing they are $489 there is no guarantee that they will be $449 again. I wouldnt hesitate buying if thats what you want as its still an amazing deal for what you get.

jaramill

02-11-12, 02:51 PM

Hi jaramill, should run the full 8 position (instead of 3) if you own a SR7005 receiver. Unless you just testing for sub trim before running full 8.
No, I only did 3 positions as my living room is just 1300 cubic feet (though open on the right side. I didn't know that there was a limit to the # of positions Audyssey would do. I figured it would go one forever! Should I do 8? I mean I can only imagine so many listening positions on my couch.
jaramill -

did you leave the gain at "1" after the audyssey calibration? i find that i like it around "2.5" on my dual ex's after a full audyssey calibration (after measuring them around "1.5" which puts them at the 75db measuring point on the initial multi-XT calibration screen for lfe.
Yes I left the gain at "1" before and after the calibration. I can play around with it a little more but have to first see how it sounds during the day at 1.

Thanks guys for the help.

cel4145

02-11-12, 02:54 PM

That's one of the reasons I love my SMS-1 sub EQ. When playing music, I can use it crank up my pair of Pluses to the wife-approved levels of bass (she likes it higher than I do), then return it to the Audyssey-calculated level so that male voices don't sound bottom-heavy and LFE has just the right amount of oomph.

I'm so tempted to get one, and you aren't helping :) By the time one pays for a good mic and mic preamp, and then a Behringer EQ, might as well get the SMS-1.

pokekevin

02-11-12, 02:57 PM

I was thinking of getting the 8033 or the newer one coming out soon....We shall see! Probably gonna be the 8033s since the c has no soft power on.
OR I can just get a Denon 3312 with pre outs for my future upgrades lol

Droool...
http://www.dspeaker.com/en/products/20-dual-core.shtml

cel4145

02-11-12, 03:08 PM

Isn't the dual core one like $1000 or more shipped to the US? LOL

paradoxical3

02-11-12, 03:11 PM

pokekevin

02-11-12, 03:16 PM

It seems my one year old LFM-EX has died. The amp turns on fine and recieves signal, but even with the volume cranked it is so quiet that it is barely audible. I have to touch the driver to be sure it is playing. It's so quiet Audyssey can't even detect it.

I don't understand what's going on - tried with a hardwire cable and the OAW3 adapter, same thing. Popped out the amp to have a look and everything looked perfect...no blown caps, loose connectors, etc. It's just as if my sub decided to play incredibly quietly.

Any ideas?

have you tried lowering the volume and connected an mp3 player or cd player to it to see if you can hear anything? If not give Outlaw a call

Rubicon_Joey

02-11-12, 03:21 PM

Yes they are definetly set to small but the crossovers at 60 i believe, I will double check tomorrow and if so try setting to 80 to let the sub handle more of that sweet midbass.

By the way here is a link to an amazing low frequency bass test song to show off the outlaws. Ironically enough it is called Bass Outlaws extreme subwoofer test. It hits just above subsonic and massages the brain.:p

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJTDLxdfY7o
Ask me how I know the globe on the light fixture in the kitchen was loose...:D

pokekevin

02-11-12, 03:45 PM

Isn't the dual core one like $1000 or more shipped to the US? LOL

stop bringing reality back! Sigh...8033 it is than lol

jaramill

02-11-12, 05:25 PM

jaramill -

did you leave the gain at "1" after the audyssey calibration? i find that i like it around "2.5" on my dual ex's after a full audyssey calibration (after measuring them around "1.5" which puts them at the 75db measuring point on the initial multi-XT calibration screen for lfe.

Hey oleus, I did some testing today, and with it at "1", I played Top Gun again (the scene where Maverick goes inverted so that Goose could take the polaroid picture) and the sub sounded a bit quiet.

Turned the dial back up slightly to 2.5, and sound much better. Again that scene isn't really super-bassy but sound just right (of course with the volume cranked up a bit).

Now the true test is that Bass Outlaw video on YouTube someone posted on here. Prior to recalibrating, it sounded okay, but as pokekevin and cel4145 mentioned to me, my sub was too loud at 5, so when I adjusted again from 5 to 1 then up to 2.5, I replayed this video.

WOW!!! Talk about rattling. At low volume, I could see the venetian blinds on my living room door to my balcony shake, and I could here the vibrations sounding off of my metal light pole stand that's next to the sub. This is an awesome test for the Outlaw.

Now that Audyssey recalibrated it with the gain set to 1, I adjusted afterward to 2.5 and sounds great to my ears. Now time to get some more blu-ray movies! Just have that one of Top Gun.

pokekevin

02-11-12, 06:10 PM

Hey oleus, I did some testing today, and with it at "1", I played Top Gun again (the scene where Maverick goes inverted so that Goose could take the polaroid picture) and the sub sounded a bit quiet.

Turned the dial back up slightly to 2.5, and sound much better. Again that scene isn't really super-bassy but sound just right (of course with the volume cranked up a bit).

Now the true test is that Bass Outlaw video on YouTube someone posted on here. Prior to recalibrating, it sounded okay, but as pokekevin and cel4145 mentioned to me, my sub was too loud at 5, so when I adjusted again from 5 to 1 then up to 2.5, I replayed this video.

WOW!!! Talk about rattling. At low volume, I could see the venetian blinds on my living room door to my balcony shake, and I could here the vibrations sounding off of my metal light pole stand that's next to the sub. This is an awesome test for the Outlaw.

Now that Audyssey recalibrated it with the gain set to 1, I adjusted afterward to 2.5 and sounds great to my ears. Now time to get some more blu-ray movies! Just have that one of Top Gun.

IF thats what you did hmmm...try watching the sub scenes from crimson tide. I almost forgot to breath while watching that scene because it was so intense lol

jaramill

02-11-12, 06:12 PM

IF thats what you did hmmm...try watching the sub scenes from crimson tide. I almost forgot to breath while watching that scene because it was so intense lol
Crimson Tide, Hunt for Red October, U-571 are movies on my list! Thanks for the reference.

JChin

02-11-12, 07:24 PM

No, I only did 3 positions as my living room is just 1300 cubic feet (though open on the right side. I didn't know that there was a limit to the # of positions Audyssey would do. I figured it would go one forever! Should I do 8? I mean I can only imagine so many listening positions on my couch.

Yes, mic position shouldn't be measure at each actual seat position but 2'-3' radius around the MLP. Regardless of your space, ideally you want to give Audyssey more data points by running all 8 positions (MultEQ XT) to create a surround bubble.

cel4145

02-11-12, 08:02 PM

stop bringing reality back! Sigh...8033 it is than lol

Or the Denon AVR-4311CI with MultiEQ XT32. Then you won't need a separate EQ :)

jaramill

02-11-12, 08:45 PM

oleus

02-11-12, 09:41 PM

Hey oleus, I did some testing today, and with it at "1", I played Top Gun again (the scene where Maverick goes inverted so that Goose could take the polaroid picture) and the sub sounded a bit quiet.

Turned the dial back up slightly to 2.5, and sound much better. Again that scene isn't really super-bassy but sound just right (of course with the volume cranked up a bit).

Now the true test is that Bass Outlaw video on YouTube someone posted on here. Prior to recalibrating, it sounded okay, but as pokekevin and cel4145 mentioned to me, my sub was too loud at 5, so when I adjusted again from 5 to 1 then up to 2.5, I replayed this video.

WOW!!! Talk about rattling. At low volume, I could see the venetian blinds on my living room door to my balcony shake, and I could here the vibrations sounding off of my metal light pole stand that's next to the sub. This is an awesome test for the Outlaw.

Now that Audyssey recalibrated it with the gain set to 1, I adjusted afterward to 2.5 and sounds great to my ears. Now time to get some more blu-ray movies! Just have that one of Top Gun.

wow jaramill that's interesting because you basically described the exact numbers/scenarios i experimented with and ended up with today. both ex's at 2.5 after recalibrating with them at 1 for the audyssey setup after testing numerous blurays and sacd/dvd-a's. actually, the better-sounding sacd mixes are priceless for testing this kind of thing.

jaramill

02-11-12, 10:13 PM

wow jaramill that's interesting because you basically described the exact numbers/scenarios i experimented with and ended up with today. both ex's at 2.5 after recalibrating with them at 1 for the audyssey setup after testing numerous blurays and sacd/dvd-a's. actually, the better-sounding sacd mixes are priceless for testing this kind of thing.
Ah that's great! Good to see people's different setups and evidently we all narrow it down to a sweet spot after trial and error. Can't wait to test more.

Unfortunately I came home tonight and saw the lights finally on, on the apt below me. Guess they finally rented out the apt. There goes my privacy!! :D :D

JChin

02-11-12, 11:26 PM

^^^ drive them away by getting "Casper The Friendly Ghost" and play the scary sound effects and spooky music :D.

nikerret

02-11-12, 11:38 PM

Keep replaying some massive explosions. Tell the new neighbors the military practices their grenade throws nearby and youre sure they'll learn to sleep through them.

SmokenAshes

02-12-12, 10:11 AM

Someone with an EX wanna try the song Sail by AWOLNATION. Im curious on how it's gonna sound once I get mine.

GSDTrainer

02-12-12, 11:35 AM

It seems my one year old LFM-EX has died. The amp turns on fine and recieves signal, but even with the volume cranked it is so quiet that it is barely audible. I have to touch the driver to be sure it is playing. It's so quiet Audyssey can't even detect it.

I don't understand what's going on - tried with a hardwire cable and the OAW3 adapter, same thing. Popped out the amp to have a look and everything looked perfect...no blown caps, loose connectors, etc. It's just as if my sub decided to play incredibly quietly.

Any ideas?

Did the gain control knob get turned all the way down by chance? I know its a stupid question and you have probably checked that but in case you havent thought I'd mention it. It sucks its dead if it has really died but the good news is its under warranty and I am sure Outlaw will take care of the problem. You dont happen to have another sub to check to see if its the pre-out for the sub woofer on the AVR do you?

jaramill

02-12-12, 06:14 PM

Yes, mic position shouldn't be measure at each actual seat position but 2'-3' radius around the MLP. Regardless of your space, ideally you want to give Audyssey more data points by running all 8 positions (MultEQ XT) to create a surround bubble.
Hey JChin, I did one more re-calibration and this time did all 8 as per your suggestion. First set the sub gain knob back to "1" then started at the main listening position for the Audyssey calibration. Then created a semi-circle arc to the right, and to the left for the rest of the 7 positions. Results were exactly the same except for the sub. Previously sub-woofer was calibrated by the AVR at -2.5db. Now...

Front Left: -5.5db
Front Center: -9.5db
Front Right: -6.0db
Subwoofer: -0.5db

Everything else that I modified before I did again (set speakers from LARGE to small, then set crossover frequency from 40hz up to 80hz). Then stored the settings then exited the program.

Now I went to the back of the sub and set dial back up to 3.0, then popped in Top Gun.

WOW....huge difference. The ears noticed immediately upon the opening of the movie where you hear the Top Gun anthem (bells ringing with a bit of bass) and I definitely heard more bass than before at 1. So I paused, dialed it down to 2.5, and the bass was just right.

Then previous scenes when the F-14 Tomcats would take-off sounded great before, but now with the bass calibrated oh it's like I can feel the jetwash of the after-burners rumbling through my floor!

Then of course went to the scene where the jet goes inverted with Maverick flying and down to the mig and Goose snaps the polaroid.

Felt like my ceiling would collapse from this jet crashing through!

LOVE the OUtlaw LFM-1 EX sub! My Dynamo 700 (10") could no way reproduce this!! I'm getting the hang of tweaking this.

In the end my ears notice it for sure. Thanks for the suggestion JChin.

domingos38

02-12-12, 09:02 PM

can i lay my EX on its side?

pokekevin

02-12-12, 09:07 PM

can i lay my EX on its side?

I've been doing that :)

nikerret

02-12-12, 09:56 PM

can i lay my EX on its side?

Did you not see my post with the big picture on the previous page?

pokekevin

02-12-12, 10:19 PM

Fellow outlaws, I need your help robbing a bank!

Jk but I have the chance to purchase an 8033 sub eq. Would it be worth the price over audyssesy multieq ?

anonymouse99

02-12-12, 11:34 PM

I've been doing that :)Ok, so do you hear any significant difference between down-firing and (pseudo) front firing?

Skri///ex

02-12-12, 11:43 PM

As promised here are some pics of the now front firing EX and the room that it is servicing and servicing very well i might add :D You can see I passed the Waf tests with flying colors as she loves to lay right in the line of fire. I think the front fire works better for large rooms hard woods and when it is corner loaded because you dont get the reverb back into the sub as bad. I just used thick double sided tape and stuck the 4 carpet spikes in each of the 4 corners. Then taped the the disks onto the bottom to minimize any vibes from the spikes to the disks. Left the screws in so it would remain air tight. absolutely love this sub. And after extensive learning and trial and error finally got the tuning perfect. 3 on the gain dial, +5 on the receiver for music, same gain +3 for movies..no hiccups just pure clean room filling bass.

cel4145

02-13-12, 01:07 AM

3 on the gain dial, +5 on the receiver for music, same gain +3 for movies..no hiccups just pure clean room filling bass.

Of course, now that you have it all tuned, I'm going to ask this ;) Did you ever try firing it at the wall in the corner? Curious, because I just read this post by Ricci at Audioholics (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/862956-post22.html)that talks about why subs are often fired into corners for reviews.

Luke Kamp

02-13-12, 01:28 AM

Of course, now that you have it all tuned, I'm going to ask this ;) Did you ever try firing it at the wall in the corner? Curious, because I just read this post by Ricci at Audioholics (http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/862956-post22.html)that talks about why subs are often fired into corners for reviews.

+1 I have tested this with omnimic and now have one of my subs facing in the corner as it gave me more output. Facing toward the corner vs. forward gave me a 6db+ gain in output from 60-80hz and a better frequency response in my room.

The only thing you guys are changing by putting your sub on the side is the frequency response. It was made to be downfiring but will work facing any direction. Remember to bass the floor is just another room boundary. Whether it is better or worse, you would need some tools as unfortunately the ear is an ineffective measurement device.

skally

02-13-12, 07:56 AM

From looking at the photos provided I'm curious to if a subdude/gamma would be in your favor as well... given the harwood floor and such ?

Skri///ex

02-13-12, 11:20 AM

I actually have a small subwoofer in the corner of my bedroom that sounds much better when firing inwards towards the corner rather than facing out from the corner. When facing the corner the bass seemed to be dispersed better and was more room filling whereas when facing out of the corner the bass was more unidirectional. As an analogy I would think of it like sprayin water out of a hose. If you spray it into empty space it come out as a single linear jet of water but spray it point blank into a corner and...you get the point. Ill have to try spinning the EX around and see if there is much of a difference

cel4145

02-13-12, 11:31 AM

The only thing you guys are changing by putting your sub on the side is the frequency response.

There is one other factor, too. Enclosure vibration. Ricci noted in his review that while good for the price, the EX could use a little more internal bracing. With the EX laying along one of its longer sides, that has to change force on the bracing--seems like it should improve it. Also, it might also reduce vibration since (a) the EX is no longer firing out air underneath it like a rocket pushing against the ground and (b) the driver is no longer at the bottom with this huge enclosure towering above with whatever vibration it induces.

flickhtguru

02-13-12, 12:42 PM

There is one other factor, too. Enclosure vibration. Ricci noted in his review that while good for the price, the EX could use a little more internal bracing. With the EX laying along one of its longer sides, that has to change force on the bracing--seems like it should improve it. Also, it might also reduce vibration since (a) the EX is no longer firing out air underneath it like a rocket pushing against the ground and (b) the driver is no longer at the bottom with this huge enclosure towering above with whatever vibration it induces.

WOW really? I have dual pluses and I have them on DIY isolation platforms and I have virtually no cabinet vibration. Maybe its the platforms that are obsorbing the vibration?

Reefdvr27

02-13-12, 12:51 PM

cel4145

02-13-12, 12:52 PM

WOW really? I have dual pluses and I have them on DIY isolation platforms and I have virtually no cabinet vibration. Maybe its the platforms that are obsorbing the vibration?

Heck, yeah. It's supposed to help with that :)

My EX is just on spikes, and I can hear it rattle just a little on occasion. Also, I would guess that the EX could be more prone to it because of the larger enclosure size and higher output.

cel4145

02-13-12, 01:04 PM

Hey guys, I hope I did the right thing, but I ordered a Yamaha RX-A810 last night! I was himing and haaaing for two days and finally pulled the plug and ordered the Yammy. Will the YPAO still play nice with the EX?? Anyone running a Yamaha?

Sure. Although a lot of people like receivers with one of the Audyssey MultiEQ flavors because it has sub EQ filters built in that help smooth the in-room response. I know lower model YPAO doesn't have that, not sure about the top models. You can always add a sub EQ with something like the Velodyne SMS-1.

Correction. Looks the upper Yamaha models with YPAO with Multi-Point might have some sub EQ. Someone else may know better.

joeycannoli

02-14-12, 08:40 AM

JChin

02-14-12, 08:58 AM

Getting anxious on the subs! Although, I just spoke with Jenn at Outlaw and it sounds like they wont be getting the EX back in stock until the 1st or 2nd week in March... I hope that was a generous estimate and they get in sooner than that!

Hi joeycannoli, don't get to discouraged with the estimate time ... this month is half over already. Be patient and it will pay off in the long run ;).

r2crd

02-14-12, 11:25 AM

Thanks for the comment Saints.
I am not in a hurry, already have 2 pluses and I am more than satisfied with the performance / form factor. I think I am going to wait a couple of days for a better price, if any.

On a side note, If anyone is interested in selling a Plus please let me know. I am looking for two more Pluses for the back of the room.

Thanks,

I got my b-stock for $449 and that is what they have been when they run the sales, but now seeing they are $489 there is no guarantee that they will be $449 again. I wouldnt hesitate buying if thats what you want as its still an amazing deal for what you get.

joeycannoli

02-14-12, 11:51 AM

Thanks for the comment Saints.
I am not in a hurry, already have 2 pluses and I am more than satisfied with the performance / form factor. I think I am going to wait a couple of days for a better price, if any.

On a side note, If anyone is interested in selling a Plus please let me know. I am looking for two more Pluses for the back of the room.

Thanks,

I have a plus that will be for sale as soon as the EX's show up. Unit is in excellent condition. LMK

Reefdvr27

02-14-12, 11:51 AM

Sure. Although a lot of people like receivers with one of the Audyssey MultiEQ flavors because it has sub EQ filters built in that help smooth the in-room response. I know lower model YPAO doesn't have that, not sure about the top models. You can always add a sub EQ with something like the Velodyne SMS-1.

Correction. Looks the upper Yamaha models with YPAO with Multi-Point might have some sub EQ. Someone else may know better. Thanks Cel, I thought it over and thought it would be best to stick with the Audyssey and changed my order to the Denon 2312ci with MultiEQ XT. I originallywanted the Denon, but I like Yamaha products, I have always found them to be reliable and I got a little better deal on the Yammy. I should have stretched a bit for the 3312 with Audyssey DSX, but I am thinking this will be leaps and bounds over the 2EQ I have now with the Onkyo 609. I am waiting patiently for the new deck, I am not pulling the Outlaw out of the box till I can hear it and adjust it properly!

r2crd

02-14-12, 12:01 PM

Good. Please send me a PM when ready. Thanks.

I have a plus that will be for sale as soon as the EX's show up. Unit is in excellent condition. LMK

SmokenAshes

02-14-12, 12:54 PM

Getting anxious on the subs! Although, I just spoke with Jenn at Outlaw and it sounds like they wont be getting the EX back in stock until the 1st or 2nd week in March... I hope that was a generous estimate and they get in sooner than that!

I talked to her yesterday and she said the estimate is still the 27th

joeycannoli

02-14-12, 01:31 PM

I talked to her yesterday and she said the estimate is still the 27th

Keeping my fingers crossed. It is what it is though

Good. Please send me a PM when ready. Thanks.

Will do

pokekevin

02-14-12, 03:45 PM

Just watched the art of flight. Great snowboarding footage...and even better great lfe!

Saints

02-14-12, 04:54 PM

Thanks Cel, I thought it over and thought it would be best to stick with the Audyssey and changed my order to the Denon 2312ci with MultiEQ XT. I originallywanted the Denon, but I like Yamaha products, I have always found them to be reliable and I got a little better deal on the Yammy. I should have stretched a bit for the 3312 with Audyssey DSX, but I am thinking this will be leaps and bounds over the 2EQ I have now with the Onkyo 609. I am waiting patiently for the new deck, I am not pulling the Outlaw out of the box till I can hear it and adjust it properly!

I just got the 4311 yesterday and I was coming from the 609. One thing I am having a problem with is it seems I lost a lot of output from going from 2eq to XT32. Before I could feel the bass and it was a lot more deep, now it is a lot more accurate and clean, but there is no feel and doesn't seem as deep or make as much of an impact. I have it dialed in correctly, but even if I run it more than 3dbs hot it doesn't have the same impact and I start hearing port noises. I'll have to mess around with it some more, I just wanted to to know my experience so far going from Onkyo with 2eq to Denon with XT32.

mickey79

02-14-12, 06:01 PM

Guys,

I just setup all my speakers & everything, including my Outlaw LFM-1 EX. Just finished running YPAO (Yamaha RX-A2000 Reciever) and I've got a couple questions...

I definitely need some settings adjustment because I'm not getting anything from my Subwoofer; I'm not feeling anything at all.

Very first, I set the Volume & Crossover Frequency as instructed in my RX-A2000's manual ... (This is a screen cap straight from the manual) ...

http://www.rahulsjohari.com/ASSETS/GRUBS/SUB1.PNG

So basically I set the Volume to 5 and the Crossover Frequency to 180Hz.

I have the Port Mode set to MAX OUTPUT; I do have both port holes unplugged (As stated in the manual 'corrections' page).

X-Over is Active and Phase is 180.

That was on the LFM-1 EX.

Next - after running YPAO - for whatever reason it determined, YPAO decided to set the level of my Subwoofer at "-10.0db". I'm not quite sure why it's that much below negative.

I played a couple 7.1 media demo files I had; and then played a couple trailers in the Blu-ray Demonstration disc (AVS) that were specifically for LFE ... and I'm getting nothing. I can barely hear the Sub.

Am I doing something wrong? Does anything about my settings seem alarming?

Thanks Guys!!

domingos38

02-14-12, 06:18 PM

mickey79

02-14-12, 06:25 PM

LOWER the volume on the sub to around 2-3 and rerun YPAO
u want it to be -3 on the receiver as the final result after running YPAO

By -3 do you mean the level to be at -3.0db on the reciever?
Also, is it ok to have the Crossover Frequency at max? Reading through LFM's manual, I'm getting the idea I should have it at 40Hz since I have Large fronts. But I'm not sure. Really new to all this.

domingos38

02-14-12, 06:30 PM

By -3 do you mean the level to be at -3.0db on the reciever?
Also, is it ok to have the Crossover Frequency at max? Reading through LFM's manual, I'm getting the idea I should have it at 40Hz since I have Large fronts. But I'm not sure. Really new to all this.

yes -3.0db
u should set your fronts as small
the Crossover Frequency on the sub should be set to max(180)

mickey79

02-14-12, 06:38 PM

yes -3.0db
u should set your fronts as small
the Crossover Frequency on the sub should be set to max(180)

Ok, this makes sense now. I'm going to try exactly what you've suggested.

By the way, I have a 7.1 configuration - and the Reciever set all 7 speakers as "LARGE". Should I set any other speaker as small besides the Fronts?

domingos38

02-14-12, 06:44 PM

Ok, this makes sense now. I'm going to try exactly what you've suggested.

By the way, I have a 7.1 configuration - and the Reciever set all 7 speakers as "LARGE". Should I set any other speaker as small besides the Fronts?

just the fronts

Reefdvr27

02-14-12, 06:46 PM

pokekevin

02-14-12, 06:51 PM

Id set all your speakers to small or lfe+main if possible

domingos38

02-14-12, 06:55 PM

Raise the low-pass filter (LPF) setting—usually incorrectly identified as a crossover—of the LFE subwoofer in the receiver / processor to 120Hz, if allowed.

mickey79

02-14-12, 07:01 PM

This was posted by GCE in the Yammy thread! Maybe can help?
I set my sub to 1/2 Volume, phase at 0 and the freq. at max and made sure the sub is on and not in auto. After running the YPAO I went into manual speaker mod and set all speakers to Small and the Bass Crossover to 80Hz. The YAPO set my sub's level to 0. which is what you want.

By 1/2 Volume I'm assuming you mean "5" on the LFM-1 EX; that's what I have right now. I can definitely give this suggestion a shot; I'll probably try Domingos suggestion as well and I can compare the results.

One thing i'm not sure (And i think this is more of an RX-A2000/YPAO question then LFM-1 EX) ... the Quote says at the end "YPAO set my sub's level to 0" .. well, does that mean you run YPAO again at the end? And if so, does YPAO take into consideration the manual adjustments you've made before when it's detecting it's parameters? I always thought it overlooks anything you've done and does what it needs to do.

Id set all your speakers to small or lfe+main if possible

Hmmm... that's a 2nd suggestion to set al speakers to small. I think I'll take it.

randyc1

02-14-12, 07:32 PM

(Driver SAG) ...I have heard that Down-firing Subs could be affected by gravity and cause The Driver to SAG over time ? ...Has anyone ever heard of this issue with Down-firing Subs ???

mickey79

02-14-12, 07:49 PM

So here's what I did:

Brought down the Volume to 2.
Switches Phase to 0.
Made sure sub was not on Auto, but On.
Set the Fronts & Center to Small (80Hz Crossover).

After this I ran YPAO and got quite considerably different results this time. All 7 speakers came to a level of between +0.0db to +1.00db. More importantly, the LFM-1 EX came to a level of -3.0db.

I do believe that most people want to get to the -3.00db. But let me ask this - should I leave it at -3.0db or should I mess with the settings more to get closer to 0.00db?

After YPAO finished, it had switched all speakers back to LARGE, so I switched the Fronts & Center back to Small (80Hz). Is that the right Crossover?

Raise the low-pass filter (LPF) setting—usually incorrectly identified as a crossover—of the LFE subwoofer in the receiver / processor to 120Hz, if allowed.
I tried looking for this but I can't find any setting in my RX-A2000 where I can set a LPF/Crossover of the Sub.

domingos38

02-14-12, 08:21 PM

So here's what I did:

Brought down the Volume to 2.
Switches Phase to 0.
Made sure sub was not on Auto, but On.
Set the Fronts & Center to Small (80Hz Crossover).

After this I ran YPAO and got quite considerably different results this time. All 7 speakers came to a level of between +0.0db to +1.00db. More importantly, the LFM-1 EX came to a level of -3.0db.

I do believe that most people want to get to the -3.00db. But let me ask this - should I leave it at -3.0db or should I mess with the settings more to get closer to 0.00db?

After YPAO finished, it had switched all speakers back to LARGE, so I switched the Fronts & Center back to Small (80Hz). Is that the right Crossover?

I tried looking for this but I can't find any setting in my RX-A2000 where I can set a LPF/Crossover of the Sub.
60Hz to 80Hz is small

cel4145

02-14-12, 09:03 PM

More importantly, the LFM-1 EX came to a level of -3.0db.

I do believe that most people want to get to the -3.00db. But let me ask this - should I leave it at -3.0db or should I mess with the settings more to get closer to 0.00db?

That's good. And if you feel like you need a little more bass, you can always run it "hot" by bumping up the channel level on the receiver 2 or 3db.

drewTT

02-14-12, 09:49 PM

I did a lot of fooling around today with some of my subs and I found that the LFM sounded the beastliest in maximum output mode, 2 ports open, but tipped over so the woofer and ports are facing the listener. Rocked some dubstep, and measured 120 db on my meter at two feet away, and also measured 110 at my listening position, which was about 2 meters away and mid-room, and this is from just one LFM-1 EX. I may do some more measurements tomorrow involving both LFM's (and throw in a couple VTFs, cuz what the hell). I know bass is supposed to be omnidirectional, but to my ears, and to the ears of the others present, the LFM sounded best when front-firing. The thing absolutely blazed. If you want to know what 120 db sounds like, tip the sub over so its front firing, set it to max output mode, and sit right in front of it, and turn the sub's gain waaay up. This is the mix (http://soundcloud.com/datilt/da-tilt-dubstep-2011-mix) I was listening to, some monster tunes in there. Just a bombastic experience, I highly recommend it!

Shady, thanks a million for the link to the mix. Absolutely killer mix. That is real dubstep. That track Biome - Propaganda is epic. Don't know what track it is but at the 1 hour and 1 minute mark, the bass is incredible. So deep!

JChin

02-14-12, 11:40 PM

So basically I set the Volume to 5 and the Crossover Frequency to 180Hz.

I have the Port Mode set to MAX OUTPUT; I do have both port holes unplugged (As stated in the manual 'corrections' page).

X-Over is Active and Phase is 180.

That was on the LFM-1 EX.

Hi mickey79, settings before running YPAO
Power Switch to "On" (switch to "Auto" after running YPAO)
X-Over to "Bypass"
Crossover Freq. to "180Hz"
Port Mode to "Max Output" (your choice) with both port holes unplugged
Phase to "0"
Volume to "2"

Reading through LFM's manual, I'm getting the idea I should have it at 40Hz since I have Large fronts. But I'm not sure. Really new to all this.

This applies if your receiver does not have internal crossover control (which RX-A2000 does have), so set the Crossover Freq. to 180Hz.

I tried looking for this but I can't find any setting in my RX-A2000 where I can set a LPF/Crossover of the Sub.

The RX-A2000 does not have Sub LPF for LFE setting.

mickey79

02-15-12, 11:22 AM

That's good. And if you feel like you need a little more bass, you can always run it "hot" by bumping up the channel level on the receiver 2 or 3db.

I think I'm going to do just that just to see what I'm hearing. I'm assuming by "run it hot" you're just saying manually bump up the Level in my Reciever for the LFE to 2db or 3b, correct?

Hi mickey79, settings before running YPAO
Power Switch to "On" (switch to "Auto" after running YPAO)
X-Over to "Bypass"
Crossover Freq. to "180Hz"
Port Mode to "Max Output" (your choice) with both port holes unplugged
Phase to "0"
Volume to "2"

This applies if your receiver does not have internal crossover control (which RX-A2000 does have), so set the Crossover Freq. to 180Hz.

The RX-A2000 does not have Sub LPF for LFE setting.

Interesting!! I think all my other settings before running YPAO were exactly similar to what you just suggested - EXCEPT on - the X-OVER. I have it set to Active. I'll switch it to Bypass and run YPAO again and see if there's a difference.

Thanks for the info on crossover control & LPF.

Reefdvr27

02-15-12, 11:28 AM

By 1/2 Volume I'm assuming you mean "5" on the LFM-1 EX; that's what I have right now. I can definitely give this suggestion a shot; I'll probably try Domingos suggestion as well and I can compare the results.

One thing i'm not sure (And i think this is more of an RX-A2000/YPAO question then LFM-1 EX) ... the Quote says at the end "YPAO set my sub's level to 0" .. well, does that mean you run YPAO again at the end? And if so, does YPAO take into consideration the manual adjustments you've made before when it's detecting it's parameters? I always thought it overlooks anything you've done and does what it needs to do.

Hmmm... that's a 2nd suggestion to set al speakers to small. I think I'll take it.If running a sub, I read earlier that even if you have tower speakers you should still set speakers to small and the let the sub handle all the low freq bass.

mickey79

02-15-12, 11:39 AM

If running a sub, I read earlier that even if you have tower speakers you should still set speakers to small and the let the sub handle all the low freq bass.

I'm curious! Almost everyone here suggested setting speakers to SMALL, even though I have LARGE speakers by all means (RTi12, CSi A6, RTi8). I did indeed switch them to SMALL in my RX-A2000 reciever -- but I don't understand why? Why are we declaring LARGE speakers as SMALL? What's the advantage?

JD in NJ

02-15-12, 11:45 AM

I'm curious! Almost everyone here suggested setting speakers to SMALL, even though I have LARGE speakers by all means (RTi12, CSi A6, RTi8). I did indeed switch them to SMALL in my RX-A2000 reciever -- but I don't understand why? Why are we declaring LARGE speakers as SMALL? What's the advantage?

I believe that it mostly has to do with cutting the power requirements from your receiver's amp section. Bass takes the most power, and most subwoofers come with their own amps built-in. If you have amplifier power to spare, this no doubt becomes less critical. Setting your speakers to small allows you to get just a bit more clean volume out of your system. I guess there's also going to be less EQing to do since you won't have quite so much in the way of overlapping frequency response between your speakers and your sub.

mickey79

02-15-12, 11:57 AM

I believe that it mostly has to do with cutting the power requirements from your receiver's amp section. Bass takes the most power, and most subwoofers come with their own amps built-in. If you have amplifier power to spare, this no doubt becomes less critical. Setting your speakers to small allows you to get just a bit more clean volume out of your system. I guess there's also going to be less EQing to do since you won't have quite so much in the way of overlapping frequency response between your speakers and your sub.

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding this.

Setting speakers as SMALL means the reciever gives them less power; I understand this would work well for a powered Sub like the LFM-1 EX which has it's own amp, so you really don't want your reciever's amp to send any power to the sub. However, for the rest of the speakers - if you're setting them as SMALL, the reciever is not sending them as much power as it would if you had them as LARGE, wouldn't that mean that my LARGE speakers will be performing less (since they are getting less amp power) then if they were getting more power (as LARGE)?

Does that make sense at all?

JD in NJ

02-15-12, 12:07 PM

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding this.

Setting speakers as SMALL means the reciever gives them less power; I understand this would work well for a powered Sub like the LFM-1 EX which has it's own amp, so you really don't want your reciever's amp to send any power to the sub. However, for the rest of the speakers - if you're setting them as SMALL, the reciever is not sending them as much power as it would if you had them as LARGE, wouldn't that mean that my LARGE speakers will be performing less (since they are getting less amp power) then if they were getting more power (as LARGE)?

Does that make sense at all?

Your large speakers will receive less power overall, but only because the lowest frequencies won't be sent to them. At a given volume level, assuming that in neither case is the amp section clipping, the power at all frequencies above wherever the crossover slope begins will be the same. The only difference should be the lack of bass. This can certainly be thought of as 'performing less', but it's a deliberate kind of thing with the low frequency 'slack' being taken up by the sub.

skally

02-15-12, 12:16 PM

I'm not quite sure I'm understanding this.

Setting speakers as SMALL means the reciever gives them less power; I understand this would work well for a powered Sub like the LFM-1 EX which has it's own amp, so you really don't want your reciever's amp to send any power to the sub. However, for the rest of the speakers - if you're setting them as SMALL, the reciever is not sending them as much power as it would if you had them as LARGE, wouldn't that mean that my LARGE speakers will be performing less (since they are getting less amp power) then if they were getting more power (as LARGE)?

Does that make sense at all?

Setting to "small" vs "large" in fact has nothing to do with the size of the speakers (... I know, its a bit messed up). What it boils down to is the hz... or the cross over that is. Lets say you set it to "small" and set the hz to say 80, anything below that the sub will handel in LFE. What the MFG should do as NOT to cofuse everyone is have "Full" and "Modified"... or something like that anyhow.

I say set it to what you think is best! Some swear by setting everything at 80 (THX) as some set each speaker setting to what the speakers are rated for. I just use Audyssey to set my system up as it sets my Large Klipsch KG's up at 40... and so on. To me it sound very good. Of course I may tweek it time from time, but thats just me.

mickey79

02-15-12, 12:19 PM

Your large speakers will receive less power overall, but only because the lowest frequencies won't be sent to them. At a given volume level, assuming that in neither case is the amp section clipping, the power at all frequencies above wherever the crossover slope begins will be the same. The only difference should be the lack of bass. This can certainly be thought of as 'performing less', but it's a deliberate kind of thing with the low frequency 'slack' being taken up by the sub.

Ah! That makes a lot more sense! Essentially you're omitting the lower frequencies on the larger speakers and instead re-routing them to the powered sub which is better equipped to handle them in the first place.

Right now I have my front 3 - FL, FR & Center set as SMALL. I stil have my back 4 - SR, SBR, SL, SBL set as LARGE. Should I set them all as SMALL?

Thanks!!

JD in NJ

02-15-12, 12:28 PM

Ah! That makes a lot more sense! Essentially you're omitting the lower frequencies on the larger speakers and instead re-routing them to the powered sub which is better equipped to handle them in the first place.

Right now I have my front 3 - FL, FR & Center set as SMALL. I stil have my back 4 - SR, SBR, SL, SBL set as LARGE. Should I set them all as SMALL?

Thanks!!

You're welcome, and you've said it very plainly in far fewer words than I used, so it's your turn to answer next time this comes up! :D

"Should" is subjective, and comes down to sound, I suppose. However, if your surrounds and rears are not full range speakers I'd certainly at least try setting them to small. I suspect that with the speakers set to large you will either find that:

A) They're full range and the same logic from above regarding power applies

or

B) They're limited in range and bass notes they can never hope to reproduce are being sent their way for no good reason. Don't quote me, but I think that this could be to the detriment of your overall sound, as if the receiver "thinks" that certain bass frequencies are being produced by the surrounds, it won't bother sending them to the sub instead. That's almost certainly specific to how the receiver manages bass.

skally

02-15-12, 12:31 PM

mickey79

02-15-12, 12:38 PM

You're welcome, and you've said it very plainly in far fewer words than I used, so it's your turn to answer next time this comes up! :D

Learning as I go :)

"Should" is subjective, and comes down to sound, I suppose. However, if your surrounds and rears are not full range speakers I'd certainly at least try setting them to small. I suspect that with the speakers set to large you will either find that:

A) They're full range and the same logic from above regarding power applies

or

B) They're limited in range and bass notes they can never hope to reproduce are being sent their way for no good reason. Don't quote me, but I think that this could be to the detriment of your overall sound, as if the receiver "thinks" that certain bass frequencies are being produced by the surrounds, it won't bother sending them to the sub instead. That's almost certainly specific to how the receiver manages bass.
I agree. Taking stock of everything - I'm quite positive it would only help, not deter, if I set them ALL to SMALL.

I would set them to small for sure.

What type/brand are you using for the back four?
That's what I'm thinking.

So here's my full setup ...

Reciever: RX-A2000
Subwoofer: LFM-1 EX
Fronts: Polk RTi12
Center: Polk CSi A6
Surrounds: Polk RTi8
Surround Backs: Polk Monitor 60

mickey79

02-15-12, 12:45 PM

skally

02-15-12, 12:52 PM

One question that just came to mind about setting speakers to small; in my Reciever when setting a speaker to small, I get various frequency choices, starting at 40Hz all the way up into 100's of Hz. I set my front 3 at 80Hz as someone had recommended. Is that a good place to keep them? Same question about the other speakers - considering I'll be switching them all to SMALL. Should I stick to 80Hz for all?

Thanks!!

Doesnt hurt to start at 80 for all, as I would try that 1st. THen if you want, you can try differnt set ups. Given the speakers you have I wouldnt go any higher than 80 for the fronts, you may find it better at say 40/50/60 and so on. As far as the back 4 I would more than likely set them at at 80 .... thats just me thou.

BTW; nice set up ;)

JD in NJ

02-15-12, 12:55 PM

One question that just came to mind about setting speakers to small; in my Reciever when setting a speaker to small, I get various frequency choices, starting at 40Hz all the way up into 100's of Hz. I set my front 3 at 80Hz as someone had recommended. Is that a good place to keep them? Same question about the other speakers - considering I'll be switching them all to SMALL. Should I stick to 80Hz for all?

Thanks!!

80 Hz is the THX recommended standard, and will work well for many combinations of sub and speaker. If, however, your speakers give flat response down to, say, 40 Hz and your sub gives flat response up to, oh, let's say 120 Hz, then there is probably little reason beyond whatever pleases you to pick one particular frequency over another. On the other hand, if your surrounds are only good and flat down to say 100, you wouldn't really want to set your xover frequency below that.

In short, so long as you can set the xover frequency(ies) at some point(s) below your sub's roll-off and above your speakers' roll-off, you should be happy with the result.

mickey79

02-15-12, 01:07 PM

Doesnt hurt to start at 80 for all, as I would try that 1st. THen if you want, you can try differnt set ups. Given the speakers you have I wouldnt go any higher than 80 for the fronts, you may find it better at say 40/50/60 and so on. As far as the back 4 I would more than likely set them at at 80 .... thats just me thou.

BTW; nice set up ;)

Thanks!! :)
I got tremendous deals on those speakers across a 4 month period; I scored new-in-box at my local Fry's at prices lower then Polk's eBay 'refurbished/recertified' store! And got the Outlaw at it's annual sale.

80 Hz is the THX recommended standard, and will work well for many combinations of sub and speaker. If, however, your speakers give flat response down to, say, 40 Hz and your sub gives flat response up to, oh, let's say 120 Hz, then there is probably little reason beyond whatever pleases you to pick one particular frequency over another. On the other hand, if your surrounds are only good and flat down to say 100, you wouldn't really want to set your xover frequency below that.

In short, so long as you can set the xover frequency(ies) at some point(s) below your sub's roll-off and above your speakers' roll-off, you should be happy with the result.

Makes sense! As skally suggested ... I'll probably start off with all 7 as SMALL and set on 80Hz and see how it sounds; if everything sounds good - probably won't touch them any further!

Thanks guys!!

skally

02-15-12, 01:29 PM

Thanks!! :)
I got tremendous deals on those speakers across a 4 month period; I scored new-in-box at my local Fry's at prices lower then Polk's eBay 'refurbished/recertified' store! And got the Outlaw at it's annual sale.

Makes sense! As skally suggested ... I'll probably start off with all 7 as SMALL and set on 80Hz and see how it sounds; if everything sounds good - probably won't touch them any further!

Thanks guys!!

No problem ;) We are all here to help... the best way we can anyhow ;)

Side note:

Mickey79,

I happen to come acroos the Yamaha fourm as I was trying to learn a bit about YPAO as I am not use to it ( I have an Onkyo 808 with Audyssey that is) .... anyhow I happen to come across your post along with another about the Yamaha receiver starting out with volume at a real LOW setting when first powering on. Isn't there a setting in the menu as to where you can have the receiver to power up with a setting say -55 or so? I know thee is a setting on my Onkyo but was curious about the Yamaha is all.
* Sorry... just a question is all.

HAve fun!

cel4145

02-15-12, 01:30 PM

mickey79

02-15-12, 01:42 PM

I happen to come acroos the Yamaha fourm as I was trying to learn a bit about YPAO as I am not use to it ( I have an Onkyo 808 with Audyssey that is) .... anyhow I happen to come across your post along with another about the Yamaha receiver starting out with volume at a real LOW setting when first powering on. Isn't there a setting in the menu as to where you can have the receiver to power up with a setting say -55 or so? I know thee is a setting on my Onkyo but was curious about the Yamaha is all.

You know something - I never thought of that! I'm not sure if there is a such a setting; or at least I haven't seen one - but you've given me good reason to break out my thick manual that I recieved from Yamaha :)

Generally the reciever kicks off from where you last left off; so if you put it on standby with Volume at say -30.0db and input selected to your Blu-ray player or whatever - It'll start off with those exact settings. So it doesn't start off at -79.0db everytime.

Still - I'd like to see if it does have a start up volume setting - that'd be cool!

I agree. Nice setup :)

And I would definitely try at different frequencies between 40 to 80hz. Since you are (hopefully) going to have them for a while, I find it better to get comfortable with different settings for a while (a few days with one, a few days with another), and then do some comparison testing.

Thanks cel!!

Yeah - these are keepers - for a long time! I just unboxed them over the last 7 days!! So yes, I'll try the 40hz ~ 80hz settings for at least the front 3. See how it sounds like. Still just settings things up and I'd like to put in al the required work now before we've got it all setup and just start enjoying the setup.

Thanks!

pokekevin

02-15-12, 02:43 PM

Wow my sub finally bottomed out. For sure metal clanging sound. Could be because it I have rlo set to 5 on my avr and the source is "the art of flight which has a lot of music

Nosferatu

02-15-12, 02:54 PM

I'm curious! Almost everyone here suggested setting speakers to SMALL, even though I have LARGE speakers by all means (RTi12, CSi A6, RTi8). I did indeed switch them to SMALL in my RX-A2000 reciever -- but I don't understand why? Why are we declaring LARGE speakers as SMALL? What's the advantage?

well it looks like you guys above figured it out but as I was reading I'm going hey JD is not telling you it properly.

Basically a LARGE speaker in the settings will mean it'll get the full audio spectrum of the music. Say you have your sub set to 80Hz anything below 80Hz will go to the sub and the speakers.

A SMALL speaker in the settings will mean it'll get all the audio frequencies EXCEPT those being sent to the sub based on the crossover (typically 80Hz is preferred). So 80Hz and above go to your speakers and 80Hz and below go to the subwoofer.

Anyways happy jamming! :) Does someone want to compile a list of these "bottoming" out scenarios (e.g. song, movie, and time in the said sample). Maybe some of us long-time owners can give it a try and see if it's truly stressing the sub or is it just a matter of room dynamics and poor setup. :)

pokekevin

02-15-12, 03:00 PM

Try the art of flight. Ill get the time code. Only happens for me due to dyn eq and my listening level

Nosferatu

02-15-12, 03:16 PM

Someone with an EX wanna try the song Sail by AWOLNATION. Im curious on how it's gonna sound once I get mine.

jamming it now. I can feel the song hitting me in the chest :p

:D

Very intermittent "THUD-THUD....musical...THUD-THUD....musical....THUD...THUD."

JD in NJ

02-15-12, 03:51 PM

well it looks like you guys above figured it out but as I was reading I'm going hey JD is not telling you it properly.

Basically a LARGE speaker in the settings will mean it'll get the full audio spectrum of the music. Say you have your sub set to 80Hz anything below 80Hz will go to the sub and the speakers.

A SMALL speaker in the settings will mean it'll get all the audio frequencies EXCEPT those being sent to the sub based on the crossover (typically 80Hz is preferred). So 80Hz and above go to your speakers and 80Hz and below go to the subwoofer.

Anyways happy jamming! :) Does someone want to compile a list of these "bottoming" out scenarios (e.g. song, movie, and time in the said sample). Maybe some of us long-time owners can give it a try and see if it's truly stressing the sub or is it just a matter of room dynamics and poor setup. :)

I've got to admit I'm a bit confused here. What you have said reflects my understanding of the situation, which hasn't changed today. Perhaps my communication was less than clear.

I've reviewed the posts, and the only thing I see that in retrospect I consider confusing is where I wrote "your large speakers", but at that point I was referring to the physical speakers, not to the them being set to 'large' in the receiver. That was a result of trying to match the style of the post to which I was responding at that point. If that's what you're referring to, I'll keep it in mind and chalk it up to the really annoying 'large/small' convention for bass management. If it's something else, can you please let me know where I went wrong?

Thanks.

jaramill

02-15-12, 05:19 PM

skally and Nosferatu's explanation of this in laymen's terms is the easiest to understand and I learned that is not the actual physical "height" of the speaker but the power. Great learning here on this thread.

I pretty much (after reading this thread and contributing) set my Martin Logan ESLs (front: left, center, right) to "small" and the x-over freq @80hz and set the gain dial on the sub to be 1. AVR set to -0.5db, then I bumped the gain to 2.5 and now even COMMERCIALS that have "slight LFE" have now come alive through the Outlaw!

I'm running Maximum Output (both ports unplugged). Crossover is bypassed.

mickey79

02-15-12, 06:22 PM

pokekevin

02-15-12, 06:43 PM

I wouldn't touch the volume knob on the sub. If you want to raise the sub do it thru the avr. As for demo worthy scenes, the art of flight has some good pq and sq. One scene bottomed out one of my ex's. Other than that try sunshine (2007 I think). Or just rewatch your favorite films :)

jaramill

02-15-12, 08:29 PM

I wouldn't touch the volume knob on the sub. If you want to raise the sub do it thru the avr.
Oh really? I thought it was okay to do that after I've recalibrated via Audyssey in my AVR. Hmm...so just set it back to 1 then from -0.5db on my AVR I should go up from negative to positive? say -0.5db to +2.5db

pokekevin

02-15-12, 08:38 PM

cel4145

02-15-12, 09:23 PM

Oh really? I thought it was okay to do that after I've recalibrated via Audyssey in my AVR. Hmm...so just set it back to 1 then from -0.5db on my AVR I should go up from negative to positive? say -0.5db to +2.5db

It's OK to do that, but it's imprecise to turn an analog dial up and down vs. using the receiver to adjust the output level in db, which is a metric for SPL. You can adjust the receiver sub trim level back and forth all day and know how much volume you have increased the sub and always put it back in the same places :)

Nosferatu

02-15-12, 09:39 PM

Oh really? I thought it was okay to do that after I've recalibrated via Audyssey in my AVR. Hmm...so just set it back to 1 then from -0.5db on my AVR I should go up from negative to positive? say -0.5db to +2.5db

if you moved that volume knob on the back just re-run Audyssey because you'll never get it back right again that knob out back is not a linear gain (meaning from 2-3 is not the same as going 3-4 etc.). You'll be off more than likely. Always adjust from the AVR because you know exactly how many dB it's being changed.

pokekevin

02-15-12, 09:47 PM

I've read that the LFM-1 Plus sub is equivalent to the Hsu VTF 3.2 sub. Is it any coincident that Hsu no longer sells the VTF 3.2?
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http://*********************/huang2.jpg
http://*********************/huang4.jpg

They sell the 3.4 now... lol

jaramill

02-15-12, 10:13 PM

Ah got it. Thanks guys. Will re-run again and then leave it set.

skally

02-16-12, 12:26 AM

So I took the suggestions that I got out of this thread and corrected my settings & ran YPAO again; I have to say I'm really happy with where I'm at right now. Cranked up my reciever to -25.0db and fired up my Home Theater Demo Blu-ray Disc (Which I got right here at AVS). I played two clips .. 'Cloverfield' & 'Master & Commander', and I started to feel the heavy bass that I had been longing out of my LFM-1 EX.

So basically here's what I did:

Switch: On
X-Over: Bypass
Crossover Frequency: 180Hz
Port Mode: Max Output
Phase: 0
Volume: 2

Ran YPAO, got my sub at -1.0db.

Manually adjusted the following settings:

Cranked up Subwoofer to 1.0db
Set ALL speakers to SMALL (80Hz)

This is where I'm at right now and it sounds fantastic!!

I have a couple quick questions ...

Firstly, do you guys leave the LFM-1 EX Volume knob at "2" hereafter? Or do you tend to increase it at all?

Secondly, I only played "Cloverfield" & "Master & Commander" from that Demo Blu-ray disc ... I was wondering if there's any other good clips that highlight the Subwoofer? Does anyone have any suggestions?

Also, is there any other, different Blu-ray Demonstration disc that I should think about aside from the one by Scubatank?

Thanks Guys!!

Good to see you were able to get a few things to where you like them! ;)

About setting (..or re-setting that is) the sub to a differnt # such as 3 instead of 2 I would reccomend just leaving it at 2 as you have it. As a few have mentioned " just adjust it at the avr" as I would say the same... IMHO that is. There is no right or wrong as it wont hurt to do that, you can always move it back to the #2 of corse its just that... well put it this way: its much easier to adjust it on the fly per say at the AVR than getting up and adjusting it. Commerials, TV and even each movie will have a differnt LFE per say. SO if you find the right spot ( as it seems you may have) then go with that. But then again if you have it at 3 you can lower it as well ;).

Just for refernace here as I maybe able to shed some light on it:
Just the other day I was watching a movie that had a decent LFE on netflix as I had up the bass on the AVR a couple of notches to make it sound great. After the movie I had turned it bak to reg tv for my son on cartoon netork as it had some kid movie of corse... anyhow WOW, I thought my kitchen cabinets where going to shake loose ;) Ok maybe a "little" overbord there but I can assume you get the point. :)

Anyhow, as mentioned ; "Good to hear all is going well". :)

mickey79

02-16-12, 11:08 AM

Good to see you were able to get a few things to where you like them! ;)

About setting (..or re-setting that is) the sub to a differnt # such as 3 instead of 2 I would reccomend just leaving it at 2 as you have it. As a few have mentioned " just adjust it at the avr" as I would say the same... IMHO that is. There is no right or wrong as it wont hurt to do that, you can always move it back to the #2 of corse its just that... well put it this way: its much easier to adjust it on the fly per say at the AVR than getting up and adjusting it. Commerials, TV and even each movie will have a differnt LFE per say. SO if you find the right spot ( as it seems you may have) then go with that. But then again if you have it at 3 you can lower it as well ;).

Just for refernace here as I maybe able to shed some light on it:
Just the other day I was watching a movie that had a decent LFE on netflix as I had up the bass on the AVR a couple of notches to make it sound great. After the movie I had turned it bak to reg tv for my son on cartoon netork as it had some kid movie of corse... anyhow WOW, I thought my kitchen cabinets where going to shake loose ;) Ok maybe a "little" overbord there but I can assume you get the point. :)

Anyhow, as mentioned ; "Good to hear all is going well". :)

:)

Thanks skally! Yes it definitely appears it's best to leave the Knob on the back set at what I have right now, which is 2. And adjust the AVR if needed. Quite honestly I don't think it's needed right now. I'm waiting for the afternoon here and will do some more listening tests on my reference blu-ray disc. But I think I'm definitely where I want to be right now. Its' sounding pretty good!

Thanks!!

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-16-12, 11:16 AM

For a 4150Cubic feet room , do you think 2 of these will be dig lower and stronger than one a ED A5-350 or a VTF-15H.
HT only here.

skally

02-16-12, 11:24 AM

:)

Thanks skally! Yes it definitely appears it's best to leave the Knob on the back set at what I have right now, which is 2. And adjust the AVR if needed. Quite honestly I don't think it's needed right now. I'm waiting for the afternoon here and will do some more listening tests on my reference blu-ray disc. But I think I'm definitely where I want to be right now. Its' sounding pretty good!

Thanks!!

Sounds good! Have fun ;)

cel4145

02-16-12, 11:55 AM

For a 4150Cubic feet room , do you think 2 of these will be dig lower and stronger than one a ED A5-350 or a VTF-15H.
HT only here.

The data indicates two EXs should have more output than 1 15H if you compare the data from their Audioholics reviews and guess that 2 EXs should be able to put out at least 3db more SPL than 1 EX.

skally

02-16-12, 12:08 PM

For a 4150Cubic feet room , do you think 2 of these will be dig lower and stronger than one a ED A5-350 or a VTF-15H.
HT only here.

Running dual EX's wont dig lower & stronger as you have stated IMHO(... it may thou as I am just assuming ;) ) but what it will do is disperse the sound/bass feild much better throught the HT area/room. Given the size of 4150 cf I would suggest looking into running dual subs thou, it has helped out my room quite well... but then again I have a VERY hard to fill layout as I have a 15x25 HT area that opens up to the kitchen in back that is 15x20 as it is joined with an entrance/office area that runs about 14x20... so you see "less than Ideal". :)

I have only had the EX for about 3 weeks now as I am VERY impressed with it! It has a much differnt bass feel/effect than the other sub I have placed up closer to the front ( PA-150 that is).

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-16-12, 12:15 PM

Running dual EX's wont dig lower & stronger as you have stated IMHO(... it may thou as I am just assuming ;) ) but what it will do is disperse the sound/bass feild much better throught the HT area/room. Given the size of 4150 cf I would suggest looking into running dual subs thou, it has helped out my room quite well... but then again I have a VERY hard to fill layout as I have a 15x25 HT area that opens up to the kitchen in back that is 15x20 as it is joined with an entrance/office area that runs about 14x20... so you see "less than Ideal". :)

I have only had the EX for about 3 weeks now as I am VERY impressed with it! It has a much differnt bass feel/effect than the other sub I have placed up closer to the front ( PA-150 that is).
Actually this is a full basement so in reality is over 9000 but there is a gypsum board wall dividing the room and I am going to add the 10 feet that are left opened then put a door to close the HT room in order to help the subwoofer not having to deal with a much bigger space to pressurize.
Even opened the way it is, the MFW15 sounded pretty powerful there before it died so I am assuming making the area less than half the size and adding a bigger sub should be good but the deal on the outlaws is so nice and it would be easier to add 1 then the other later instead of dropping 800 to 1000 bucks in one shot but only if I am not losing low end performance of course.
The room is like 38 feet long but only about 14 wide (well the last 16' back are only 11.5 wide) so at least is not a dreaded cube or square room :D

skally

02-16-12, 12:59 PM

Actually this is a full basement so in reality is over 9000 but there is a gypsum board wall dividing the room and I am going to add the 10 feet that are left opened then put a door to close the HT room in order to help the subwoofer not having to deal with a much bigger space to pressurize.
Even opened the way it is, the MFW15 sounded pretty powerful there before it died so I am assuming making the area less than half the size and adding a bigger sub should be good but the deal on the outlaws is so nice and it would be easier to add 1 then the other later instead of dropping 800 to 1000 bucks in one shot but only if I am not losing low end performance of course.
The room is like 38 feet long but only about 14 wide (well the last 16' back are only 11.5 wide) so at least is not a dreaded cube or square room :D

Just the limited knowledge I have on the MFW-15 sub I can only assume its quite the sub. Is it safe to say the amp went bad as you noted that "when it died"? From what I have read its hard to get parts for but I read somewhere (.. I think the Klipsch fourm of all places but not sure) as they found parts to repair them... I think?? IF thats the case I would look into that if you havent already that is, but maybe you already have.

The EX has a VERY good low end performance so I'm sure you wont or wouldnt be lacking thier. You noted "the deal on the Outlaw"... by chance did you order one during the sale?? If not, I see the price is back up to $649 ( + shipping I think) along with a wait until 3/26/12 or so.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-16-12, 03:25 PM

Just the limited knowledge I have on the MFW-15 sub I can only assume its quite the sub. Is it safe to say the amp went bad as you noted that "when it died"? From what I have read its hard to get parts for but I read somewhere (.. I think the Klipsch fourm of all places but not sure) as they found parts to repair them... I think?? IF thats the case I would look into that if you havent already that is, but maybe you already have.

The EX has a VERY good low end performance so I'm sure you wont or wouldnt be lacking thier. You noted "the deal on the Outlaw"... by chance did you order one during the sale?? If not, I see the price is back up to $649 ( + shipping I think) along with a wait until 3/26/12 or so.
Well I would love to wait for a deal and get two indeed.
Yes I tried fixing mine but it seems the drive is not good either and 3 old amps where all broken too so my only option is waiting for a replacement amp b3 which will take a while too and not knowing if the drive is good or not.
When working it was quite a monster but I am afraid of putting money into it unless it was easier to find you know.
Getting two of them cheap would be aswesome but with no parts ...it is a dead end.
So right now I am thinking those options the ED a5-350, the hsu h15 and even thought about the SVS PB12 NSD ($760) but I am not sure that one for the price is as good a deal as the ED one.
So Outlook was my goal for duals but it seems it wont work unless I am patient.

Skri///ex

02-16-12, 03:32 PM

Would it make sense/ is it really possible to add a subwoofer such a captivator or pb13 ultra as a future 2nd sub to mate/blend with the EX?

pokekevin

02-16-12, 03:36 PM

Would it make sense/ is it really possible to add a subwoofer such a captivator or pb13 ultra as a future 2nd sub to mate/blend with the EX?

Or the Cap S! Id pick the cap over the pb13. If you do get the Cap, I would place the EX nearfield and the Cap near the front. You know you will want to get a second cap if you get one lol

cel4145

02-16-12, 03:39 PM

Running dual EX's wont dig lower & stronger as you have stated IMHO(... it may thou as I am just assuming ;) )

Go compare the CEA test data for the VTF-15H (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/hsu-vtf-15h-supplemental/hsu-vtf-15h-cea-test-results) and then the EX data here for ME mode (http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/lfm-1-ex-review/lfm-1-ex-measurements). The VTF-15H was tested at 1m ground plane, the EX at 2m. The common correction for that is subtract 6db output for the closer measurement. Then if 2 EXs can achieve at least 3db more output than 1--which is conservative and reasonable--the 2 EXs will easily meet the output of the VTF-15H at 25hz, and then beat it below.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-16-12, 03:48 PM

Based on that it looks like even 1 is almost matching it at 20hz which I find quite impressive if true.

cel4145

02-16-12, 04:06 PM

Based on that it looks like even 1 is almost matching it at 20hz which I find quite impressive if true.

And really the specs are close enough that your particular room acoustics are going to be a bigger factor of which will perform better of the 2 EXs or one VTF-15H.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-16-12, 04:18 PM

I am hoping that the place I am using the sub is going to help a bit too since it is concrete on that basement wall and its a corner where the wall goes from 14.5 wide to 11.5 and where I had the MFW15 before doing pretty damn good.
Damn I wish they were available now as it is much easier to buy one then the other than spending 1K in one shot.

shadyJ

02-16-12, 04:26 PM

cel4145

02-16-12, 04:28 PM

Check the b-stock page frequently (http://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/bstock.html). I bought between the sales early last fall and got a b-stock. It had a minor cosmetic issue on the back corner--a little 1" bump that had been repainted. Given that they have just had a big sale, there's a good chance they might have one listed over the next month or so.

Luis Gabriel Gerena

02-16-12, 04:31 PM

Going by those measurements, two LFM-1 EX's could only match the VTF15h's output if you co-locate them. If you placed them separately, they wouldn't quite have the output of the VTF15h, and this is assuming the data is comparable, which it isn't. We can see that it isn't given that both Josh Ricci and Paul Apollonio measured the same Rythmik FV15HP and came up with different results. Two LFM-1 EXs may make for a smoother and more even bass sound than one VTF15h, although I think the VTF15h would have an output advantage.

Yes somehow comparing different tests is not my preferred way of doing so but still...guess not much choice unless someone has actually tried them both.

Check the b-stock page frequently (http://www.outlawaudio.com/mofcart/bstock.html). I bought between the sales early last fall and got a b-stock. It had a minor cosmetic issue on the back corner--a little 1" bump that had been repainted. Given that they have just had a big sale, there's a good chance they might have one listed over the next month or so.

Good idea. I will keep an eye for those too.
Its killing me to make a decision when I am subless now :)

cel4145

02-16-12, 04:34 PM

Going by those measurements, two LFM-1 EX's could only match the VTF15h's output if you co-locate them.

So what is the potential SPL increase from two subs that are not colated? I realize it depends on placement, but assuming that they are roughly equidistant from the listening position and room placement is offering similar acoustic benefits (and they are not cancelling out). It should be 3db, right? If you have 100db coming out of one speaker measured at the listening position, and 100db out of another, that's 103db total.

Cal516

02-16-12, 05:02 PM

Can someone with experience with both the LFM-1 Plus and the EX offer a comparison? I'm one the edge between these two and the Hsu VTF-2 Mk-4.

nikerret

02-16-12, 05:59 PM

Can someone with experience with both the LFM-1 Plus and the EX offer a comparison? I'm one the edge between these two and the Hsu VTF-2 Mk-4.

There's a good one several pages back. Guy has two Pluses and two Ex's. I am waiting on my EX, to complement the Plus I already have.

Other than and SPL meter, my observations are purely subjective.

I will post up when I get my EX set up (I have at least three diferent locations to try).

laugsbach

02-16-12, 08:16 PM

Guy has two Pluses and two Ex's.

That would be me...:)

Cal516, just click my second link located below in my signature to read my thoughts...

shadyJ

02-16-12, 08:34 PM

So what is the potential SPL increase from two subs that are not colated? I realize it depends on placement, but assuming that they are roughly equidistant from the listening position and room placement is offering similar acoustic benefits (and they are not cancelling out). It should be 3db, right? If you have 100db coming out of one speaker measured at the listening position, and 100db out of another, that's 103db total.

Yes, this is my understanding. Two speakers co-located typically adds 6 db, but in opposite ends of a room the gain is 3 db. I will try to test this tomorrow since I plan on moving around some subs anyway, I will let you know what I find.

cel4145

02-16-12, 08:41 PM

Yes, this is my understanding. Two speakers co-located typically adds 6 db, but in opposite ends of a room the gain is 3 db. I will try to test this tomorrow since I plan on moving around some subs anyway, I will let you know what I find.

And probably 3db if equally positioned across the front in a fairly symmetrical room design, as long as they didn't cancel each other out (which one would not want to do anyway), right? Same distance from the listening position.

pokekevin

02-16-12, 08:56 PM

And probably 3db if equally positioned across the front in a fairly symmetrical room design, as long as they didn't cancel each other out (which one would not want to do anyway), right? Same distance from the listening position.

That's what my spl meter shows. If the phase is incorrect than dBs drop fast on my meter

laugsbach

02-16-12, 09:10 PM

If the phase is incorrect than dBs drop fast on my meter

Very true...

In my room, the nearfield subs were always switched to "180" on the phase setting while the subs located farfield were both set at "0"...

anonymouse99

02-16-12, 10:06 PM

Not sure if folks who have the EX on order (especially the ones that were purchased during January sale) noticed .... Its delivery date has now been pushed to 3/26/12.

cel4145

02-16-12, 10:11 PM

That's what my spl meter shows. If the phase is incorrect than dBs drop fast on my meter

I'm surprised at you. You aren't using them in front-firing mode stacked on top of each other to get the 6db gain? ;)

pokekevin

02-16-12, 11:35 PM

I'm surprised at you. You aren't using them in front-firing mode stacked on top of each other to get the 6db gain? ;)

Going to try tomorrow :D

cel4145

02-17-12, 12:16 AM

Going to try tomorrow :D

You'll have to test it with the launch scene, the one that you said felt like it was blowing out your back wall :D

tleavit

02-17-12, 12:28 AM

Just gotta say, I now have 5 years on my Outlaw 2200 monoblocks (7) with thousands of hours of movies and music and they run as like the day I got them. Same with my 2 LFM1-EX subs. Good job Outlaw!

cel4145

02-17-12, 03:06 PM

Check out shadyJ's comparison of the EX and HSU VTF-3.3 to the Rythmik: Spent some time comparing a FV12 to my other subs... (http://avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1394772)

Informative read :)

pokekevin

02-17-12, 11:59 PM

mickey79

02-18-12, 09:52 AM

A friend from the corps came by with Immortals (I dont know how he got it but bootlegged for sure) and dang with Dyn EQ my subs made the most disturbing pop sound. I've decided to stop using Dyn EQ and just raise the MV lol

I just got the Immortals Blu-ray 3D ... How was the movie? Saw really good previews but really bad reviews. I thought the sound & visuals at least should be worthwhile on the new setup.

Reefdvr27

02-18-12, 12:12 PM

Hey guys! I finally shipped my Onkyo 609 back and received my new Denon 2312ci. I still have my Outlaw in the box as it has been for over two weeks. I am going to be setting up all weekend. I am heading out now to buy a tripod. I would love a boom handle mic stand, just not feasible though! I will keep alook for one though. Anyhoo, I know it has been asked a million times, but I need to get set up for Audyssey and need to set the sub. There are 200 pages here if someone can link me to what page has what I need to do as far as the sub settings, or can kindly give me some quick info. I think I am looking for -3 reading from Audyssey? I think you set the HZ all the way up on the sub, phase to 0 and the volume at 3 or 5 ? am I close?

cel4145

02-18-12, 12:58 PM

There are 200 pages here if someone can link me to what page has what I need to do as far as the sub settings, or can kindly give me some quick info.

Here's a post I put up previously

1) You will need to read a lot. There is no shortcut here.
2) Read the manual Outlaw gave you (http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/Variable.pdf).
3) Read this AVS Audyssey setup guide (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895). Even if you don't have Audyssey as your room correction software, there are still some tips that might help so that you know what questions to ask. It also talks about setting up dual subs.
4) If you are a Denon user and still don't understand how your Denon receiver works, read batpig's guides and other info on Audyssey and Denons (http://batpigworld.com/).
5) Follow the recommendation (see the Audyssey guide) to get the sub channel(trim) level set by the receiver set in the -3db to +3db range by your room correction software. That might mean turning the gain (volume) knob on the sub down more than you think you need to and running Audyssey multiple times to get it right.

After pokekevin's recent experience with Audyssey Dynamic EQ, I would also recommend turning that off until you get your system configured correctly and have experimented with it. He's not the first one to experience issues with it and the Outlaw subs.

pokekevin

02-18-12, 03:38 PM

Here's a post I put up previously

After pokekevin's recent experience with Audyssey Dynamic EQ, I would also recommend turning that off until you get your system configured correctly and have experimented with it. He's not the first one to experience issues with it and the Outlaw subs.

100% agree. Dyn EQ has been causing some both of my subs to bottom out on several new releases. The sound is just sooo bad when you hear it. Might take the driver out to see if everythings ok.

Saints

02-18-12, 06:11 PM

100% agree. Dyn EQ has been causing some both of my subs to bottom out on several new releases. The sound is just sooo bad when you hear it. Might take the driver out to see if everythings ok.

From what I understand the way that Dynamic EQ works is the louder you turn your main volume up the less Dynamic EQ boosts the signal. So if you get to 0db (reference) Dynamic EQ will not have any affect at all. What receiver are you running? Could you be running your subs too hot? I noticed Dynamic EQ was louder on my Onkyo than my Denon, but there are adjustments you can make to lower how much it boosts the signal. It seems perfect on the Denon, but I had to lower it a bit on the Onkyo. Other than that I have had no problems at all with Dynamic EQ.

TheBrandon

02-18-12, 06:12 PM

pokekevin

02-18-12, 06:22 PM

I think though it could be just the movie. Some folks are saying immortals is clipping like mad. I think so too because the hulk never gave me problems with dyn eq. I like dyn eq at rlo 5 but with what happened, I decided to turn it off till I can fix it.

jaramill

02-18-12, 08:35 PM

SmokenAshes

02-18-12, 09:54 PM

I hope to God the estimated ship date of 3/26/12 on Outlaw Audio website for the EX is for the people who order it now. I ordered mine the last day of the sale like a month ago and it said the 27th of Feb for ship date. It better not be for me or I'm gonna have to shop for a different sub....and I DO NOT want to go through that again.

This sucks!

pokekevin

02-18-12, 09:56 PM

jaramill

02-18-12, 10:28 PM

Haha glad you're pleased with the set up!
Oh one more question...it asks after the setup if I want Dynamic Volume to be ON or OFF. Does it matter? I set it to ON.

pokekevin

02-18-12, 11:08 PM

Oh one more question...it asks after the setup if I want Dynamic Volume to be ON or OFF. Does it matter? I set it to ON.

I only use dyn vol when its late at night when people are sleeping. 99% of the time I keep it off

jaramill

02-19-12, 01:25 AM

I only use dyn vol when its late at night when people are sleeping. 99% of the time I keep it off
Ok thanks. I also did turn off Dynamic Equalizer after you mentioned the problems you had.

SaviorMachine

02-19-12, 06:15 AM

Ok thanks. I also did turn off Dynamic Equalizer after you mentioned the problems you had.

Why? Have you had similar problems?

SaviorMachine

02-19-12, 06:18 AM

That is a shame as I feel dyn eq enhances the audio significantly. Is this measurable? Has anyone made audyssey aware?

Has anyone made Outlaw aware? Or has anyone just tried to lower the output level during extreme passages?

TheBrandon

02-19-12, 09:19 AM

Has anyone made Outlaw aware? Or has anyone just tried to lower the output level during extreme passages?

It has been reported that Audyssey was bringing down the low end 10hz more then it should be. I wasn't sure if this was measurable, rumor, or what. My understanding is that is why its been reported that turning Dynamic EQ off resolves this.

What would you tell Outlaw or am I missing something?

cel4145

02-19-12, 09:24 AM

Has anyone made Outlaw aware? Or has anyone just tried to lower the output level during extreme passages?

That's not Outlaw's problem. Dynamic EQ is designed to artificially boost frequency ranges based on what Audyssey thinks. As Audyssey describes it (http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/dynamic-eq), it's a fancy loudness button. Loudness controls that used to be put on receivers were always intended to help at lower volume listening, and then you shut it off at higher volumes.

So at higher listening volumes for movies, why trust a set of algorithms to boost frequencies that makes guesses over the sound engineers that created the audio track? Turn off Dynamic EQ and simply run the volume a few db louder.

domingos38

02-19-12, 10:19 AM

ok i moved my HT to a sealed room ,and now my EX rattles and shakes the room to the point i am considering turning it off and not using it
any thing i can do to prevent this?
its sitting on its side

SaviorMachine

02-19-12, 11:07 AM

That's not Outlaw's problem. Dynamic EQ is designed to artificially boost frequency ranges based on what Audyssey thinks. As Audyssey describes it (http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/dynamic-eq), it's a fancy loudness button. Loudness controls that used to be put on receivers were always intended to help at lower volume listening, and then you shut it off at higher volumes.

So at higher listening volumes for movies, why trust a set of algorithms to boost frequencies that makes guesses over the sound engineers that created the audio track? Turn off Dynamic EQ and simply run the volume a few db louder.

I agree with you that it's neither Outlaw's nor Audyssey's problem.

jaramill

02-19-12, 04:05 PM

Why? Have you had similar problems?Oh no not at all but because I'm a "newbie" when it comes to being an audiophile, I just go with the consensus until I know better.

I'm just getting the hang of the terminology and understanding how to tweak my sub-woofer but eventually I'll able to realize that the EQ being off is better...or not.

yellowcanary73

02-19-12, 04:10 PM

ok i moved my HT to a sealed room ,and now my EX rattles and shakes the room to the point i am considering turning it off and not using it
any thing i can do to prevent this?
its sitting on its side

Put it back to the way it was designed to operate. Why not lower it in the AVR.

JChin

02-19-12, 04:27 PM

JChin

02-19-12, 04:29 PM

Oh one more question...it asks after the setup if I want Dynamic Volume to be ON or OFF. Does it matter? I set it to ON.

Hi jaramill, I have Dynamic Volume turned on with "Evening" setting for tv viewing only

jaramill

02-19-12, 04:31 PM

Hi jaramill, I have Dynamic Volume turned on with "Evening" setting for tv viewing only

How to set it to "Evening" setting? Is that a setting particular to your AVR? Mine is the Marantz SR7005.

pokekevin

02-19-12, 04:35 PM

Hi pokekevin, curious what was the MV set to with Dyn EQ turned on?

-15 (w/ rlo at 0/5)

Havok305

02-19-12, 04:39 PM

Put it back to the way it was designed to operate. Why not lower it in the AVR.

And a subdude may help.

JChin

02-19-12, 05:35 PM

How to set it to "Evening" setting? Is that a setting particular to your AVR? Mine is the Marantz SR7005.

My Denon has Midnight, Evening, Day and Off where as Marantz has it as Heavy, Medium, Light and Off.

There should a button on the receiver (behind door) and a button on the remote.

Or go into Menu -> Audio/Video Adjust -> Audio Adjust -> Audyssey Setting -> Dynamic Vol (set to Medium).

JChin

02-19-12, 05:40 PM

-15 (w/ rlo at 0/5)

Guess I will pick a BD copy of "Immortals" and try it out. My normal MV is -10 to -17 with Dynamic EQ turned on and rlo at 0.

pokekevin

02-19-12, 05:50 PM

Hi pokekevin, curious what was the MV set to with Dyn EQ turned on?

Guess I will pick a BD copy of "Immortals" and try it out. My normal MV is -10 to -17 with Dynamic EQ turned on and rlo at 0.

Hoping its not just me with the problem:(

Skri///ex

02-21-12, 09:08 AM

Okay I re-calibrated again with gain knob on the sub back to 1. After recalibration undid some of the settings (freq set to 40 and upped it to 80hz for fronts L, C, R), and set speakers to "small" from "LARGE". Then saw the setting for my sub and it was within the sweet spot range of -3db and +3db (-2.5db). Now it's much easier to adjust for movies so I set it to +2db and played again my Top Gun.

Yup.....still feels like that F-14 Tomcat is going to crash through my roof!!! :D

Thanks cel4145 and pokekevin. Will adjust from the AVR (Marantz SR7005) from now on.

Its interesting to see how wildly different db levels can differ between people with similar settings. I had my system set up the exact same way after running audyssey ( gain at 1 avr set to -2.5) after turning it up to +2 and watching the first strike scene in pearl harbor the subwoofer was just audible at best. Nowhere near crashing though the roof. I attribute some of this to the -3 db loss due to using the wireless system. Even when I set avr sub at max +12 db's leaving the gain at 1 the sub sounds like it had its nuts clipped. However after, turning up the gain on the back of the sub, albeit not recommended, to 2.5 the sub breathed life. After extensive testing and tuning my ideal setting for movies n music is gain at 2.5 and avr set to +5. Shakes the house and no hiccups. I lower the avr setting to +2 when watching tv as male/low voices and are much too bass heavy and some commercials come on and are twice as loud as the show I was watching. Very annoying.

Also when watching movies I run into a similar problem where there are very quiet/ dialogue parts and than super loud scenes. You would think the sound engineers making the movies would level things out a bit. If people are sleeping I sometimes never set down the remote down having to turn up and down the volume constantly. Is this what dyn vol is for>

SaviorMachine

02-21-12, 09:16 AM

joeycannoli

02-21-12, 11:50 AM

Anyone else get this today...? This sucks...

Hello Joey,

Thank you for your Outlaw LFM-1 EX order. While we had initially anticipated that the next shipment of subwoofers would be available on 2/27, we wanted to alert you to a delay in their arrival. As a result of scheduling issues at the factory following Chinese New Year, we will be unable to resume LFM-1 EX shipments until the last week of March. We deeply apologize for this delay.

As is our policy, we will NOT charge your credit card until your order is ready to ship. Once your order ships, we will send you a copy of your invoice as well as the tracking information.

Since we understand that some home theater projects simply cannot wait, we would like to extend you the opportunity to modify your order. If you prefer, we will provide alternate sale pricing on our LFM-1 Plus subwoofer. Please contact us by Wednesday, February 2/29 to cancel the LFM-1 EX order and purchase an LFM-1 Plus for just $479 w/free ground shipping. Otherwise, if we do not hear from you, we will process your reservation order upon receipt of our next batch of LFM-1 EX subwoofers.

Thanks and regards,
The Outlaws

pokekevin

02-21-12, 11:58 AM

The soundtracks on blu-ray movies are mixed to create a dynamic range that's completely appropriate for actual theaters, but doesn't work well in lots of people's homes. This problem is solved by Dynamic Volume.

I don't know what receiver you use, but if you have Dynamic Volume, then definitely give it a try.

Dyn vol is mainly preferenced based and I only use it for late night viewing.

nikerret

02-21-12, 12:00 PM

Anyone else get this today...? This sucks...

Yes, I got it, too. It does suck. However, the Plus for that price is great. Nice of them to offer an alternative. I am going to hold out on the EX, although, it is tempting to match my curent Plus. Of course, that gets me further from my dual EX plan (for much later down the road).

My bigger concern is they are changing their lineup. They took out the Compact....interesting to see if there will be an updated replacement.

Reefdvr27

02-21-12, 12:05 PM

Anyone else get this today...? This sucks... Pretty good deal on the Plus though!! Outlaw must have really cleaned up house on that last sale! Power of the net!!

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have gotten better at waiting for things! If you truly want an EX, just hang on a few more weeks! You'll have it for years. Who knows maybe it will ship sooner! This is not really at you, I just read another thread and another poster just could not wait and settled for something else.

JD in NJ

02-21-12, 12:14 PM

I've made do with my towers and no sub for a long time, another month may hurt but it won't kill me.

yellowcanary73

02-21-12, 12:25 PM

Sounds like great CS by Outlaw I have the EX well worth the wait.

SaviorMachine

02-21-12, 12:46 PM

Dyn vol is mainly preferenced based and I only use it for late night viewing.

What does "preferenced based" mean here?
Regardless, it directly solves the problem described by the guy I responded to.

pokekevin

02-21-12, 12:48 PM

What does "preferenced based" mean here?
Regardless, it directly solves the problem described by the guy I responded to.

I meant more like some people like using some don't lol. I myself personally love the dynamic range. Fun to get scared during the films :D

SaviorMachine

02-21-12, 12:52 PM

I meant more like some people like using some don't lol. I myself personally love the dynamic range. Fun to get scared during the films :D

OK. Anyway, I gave the guy advice that works.

pokekevin

02-21-12, 01:10 PM

OK. Anyway, I gave the guy advice that works.

Yea no doubt :D

joeycannoli

02-21-12, 01:24 PM

I am definitely going to stick it out... just itchy to get them!

Reefdvr27

02-21-12, 01:37 PM

I've made do with my towers and no sub for a long time, another month may hurt but it won't kill me. You will not regret it!

I am definitely going to stick it out... just itchy to get them! I hear you! I was way excited for mine, but I had to hold my order for two weeks because I went on vacation and they could not guarentee my shipment a week before I left. Then when I got back, I had to wait a week for the delivery, then I had to leave it in the box for another 2 weeks because I sent back my receiver back and bought a new Denon. So now I had to wait for the receiver come! Finally I got it all together and I love this thing and I love the Denon even more, what a difference, now I know what they mean by the Denon sounds better. Hopefully by the time my theater is built, Outlaw will have a 15" available :)

Sounds like great CS by Outlaw I have the EX well worth the wait. X2

SethVIII

02-21-12, 02:03 PM

Anyone else get this today...? This sucks...

Yes, I got it, too....

I did as well...have two coming, should be worth the wait.

mickey79

02-21-12, 03:00 PM

Reefdvr27

02-21-12, 03:09 PM

Question guys ...

Is there any consideration issues about placing the Sub on Carpet vs. Solid floor? In other words, does it perform better/worse on one vs. the other?

I have my LFM-1 EX on carpet right now; the whole family room is carpeted. Although I'm getting good bass and so far I'm pretty satisfied with the overall performance - I'm not really feeling the boom, or that really heavy hit in my chest that you feel with a real heavy bass. I was just wondering if the Carpetting has anything to do with it.

Thanks. I have mine on carpet. Might want to lift it a bit! I temporally lifted mine up with a couple of books on the port side.

We watched the Hulk the other night, and around the end of the movie, Hulk is jumping across the land and every time he lands, we would all feel the THUD! We were laughing since we did not experience this with my previous sub. Keep working at it, this sub is capable of in your chest bass!

mickey79

02-21-12, 03:25 PM

I have mine on carpet. Might want to lift it a bit! I temporally lifted mine up with a couple of books on the port side.

We watched the Hulk the other night, and around the end of the movie, Hulk is jumping across the land and every time he lands, we would all feel the THUD! We were laughing since we did not experience this with my previous sub. Keep working at it, this sub is capable of in your chest bass!

I have no doubts it is - I've heard so many people tell me exactly what you are! Will definitely keep working at it. I'll trying lifting it up a bit. Thanks man!

Nosferatu

02-21-12, 05:21 PM

I have no doubts it is - I've heard so many people tell me exactly what you are! Will definitely keep working at it. I'll trying lifting it up a bit. Thanks man!

one simple scene in the first Transformers movie at the very beginning after Optimus makes his little speech and the camera starts in the desert with the chopper in Qatar...well the blades of the chopper makes a nice....WOMP...WOMP...WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP that most subs I heard can't duplicate. You can feel the propeller blades. It's pretty groovy. :)

mickey79

02-21-12, 05:25 PM

one simple scene in the first Transformers movie at the very beginning after Optimus makes his little speech and the camera starts in the desert with the chopper in Qatar...well the blades of the chopper makes a nice....WOMP...WOMP...WOMP WOMP WOMP WOMP that most subs I heard can't duplicate. You can feel the propeller blades. It's pretty groovy. :)

I'll test the same scene - I have that one on Blu-ray.

Just used the padding that came with the LFM-1 EX to lift up the Sub. Definitely made some difference. Tested Inception & Tron and could definitely feel a little heavier bass.

Thanks for that tip - it helped!!

Will test Transformers later.

chashint

02-21-12, 05:33 PM

Its interesting to see how wildly different db levels can differ between people with similar settings. I had my system set up the exact same way after running audyssey ( gain at 1 avr set to -2.5) after turning it up to +2 and watching the first strike scene in pearl harbor the subwoofer was just audible at best. Nowhere near crashing though the roof. I attribute some of this to the -3 db loss due to using the wireless system. Even when I set avr sub at max +12 db's leaving the gain at 1 the sub sounds like it had its nuts clipped. However after, turning up the gain on the back of the sub, albeit not recommended, to 2.5 the sub breathed life. After extensive testing and tuning my ideal setting for movies n music is gain at 2.5 and avr set to +5. Shakes the house and no hiccups. I lower the avr setting to +2 when watching tv as male/low voices and are much too bass heavy and some commercials come on and are twice as loud as the show I was watching. Very annoying.

Also when watching movies I run into a similar problem where there are very quiet/ dialogue parts and than super loud scenes. You would think the sound engineers making the movies would level things out a bit. If people are sleeping I sometimes never set down the remote down having to turn up and down the volume constantly. Is this what dyn vol is for>

The soundtracks on blu-ray movies are mixed to create a dynamic range that's completely appropriate for actual theaters, but doesn't work well in lots of people's homes. This problem is solved by Dynamic Volume.

I don't know what receiver you use, but if you have Dynamic Volume, then definitely give it a try.

Dyn vol is mainly preferenced based and I only use it for late night viewing.

I have Pioneer so I don't know what filters and settings Audyssey lets you see or adjust after the calibration.
If it lets you see the filters and EQ look at them to see if what it is doing seems reasonable.
If it is trying to fix a standing wave it may be killing your subwoofer or if it is trying to fix a null the sub may be overdriven.
The 3dB loss in the wireless unit is taken into account when the AVR calibrates the sub.
If the AVR cal set the trim to -2 with the sub volume at 1 and you now have the sub volume at 2.5 with the AVR trim at +5 you are running the sub super hot.
If you like it that way flame on.
I would try to figure out why you have to jack it up so much, because (in my limited experience) this is not normally what is required.
You really should not have to be adjusting the sub trim or the sub volume when you change sources either.

As far as dynamic volume goes I am not a fan, I like the whispers to whisper and the explosions to explode. It may have some limited use as a late night setting.
It is definitely a personal preference to compress the dynamic range.
Once again if an individual likes it that way flame on.

I was watching the Mavericks game last night on TNT and one of the ads was stupidly loud, they really need to get a handle on that.

SaviorMachine

02-21-12, 06:39 PM

As far as dynamic volume goes I am not a fan, I like the whispers to whisper and the explosions to explode. It may have some limited use as a late night setting.
It is definitely a personal preference to compress the dynamic range.
Once again if an individual likes it that way flame on.

:confused: No need for flames, friend. I'll clarify my statements: the things you mention liking about cinema-spec dynamic range are exactly the problem that lots of people face while watching their movies in a domestic setting. While watching their movies in a domestic setting, lots of users find themselves bouncing between two output levels:

Level A) Dialogue can be easily understood; gunfire earns noise complaints.

Level B) Underwater nuclear explosions have impact but they're sane. Talky bits sound like adults in Peanuts cartoons, when you're listening from half a city block away.

I don't deny that a lot of users run their HT setups in spaces where they can have intelligible dialogue and simply enjoy the scary-loud parts, but that range is itself a problem for lots of other users. I can relate to anybody who would avoid using Dynamic Volume for music--it just seems like a kind of crime. For movies though, there's a more urgent need, and an excellent solution. I think it's worthwhile to recommend DV to people who are having trouble with the problem it's built to solve. If your circumstances didn't permit you to run your set at full cinematic dynamic range, then what would you do?

pokekevin

02-21-12, 06:42 PM

Buddy I wasn't questioning your explanation! I just felt like sharing my settings :D. Dyn vol is very very useful for late night movies! I used to use day time all the time but finally got "bored" of it lol.

SmokenAshes

02-21-12, 06:45 PM

Pretty good deal on the Plus though!! Outlaw must have really cleaned up house on that last sale! Power of the net!!

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I have gotten better at waiting for things! If you truly want an EX, just hang on a few more weeks! You'll have it for years. Who knows maybe it will ship sooner! This is not really at you, I just read another thread and another poster just could not wait and settled for something else.

I suppose that was probably directed at me. I'm not really patient, when I want something I want it. I was already willing to wait a month but after getting pushed another month I was like nevermind. To each there own.

pokekevin

02-21-12, 06:52 PM

I suppose that was probably directed at me. I'm not really patient, when I want something I want it. I was already willing to wait a month but after getting pushed another month I was like nevermind. To each there own.

I waited 1 month for mine...can't imagine 2 haha. I know someone who bought a subm and has been waiting for about 3 months for a certain amp to be available. Much respect for his patience lol

chashint

02-21-12, 07:17 PM

Sorry if my post came off wrong I certainly did not intend to be mean.
I think skri // has something else going on that is hurting his sound.
I have read many stories relating the AVR calibration killed the bass.
Also many accounts of moving the sub and getting tremendous SQ improvement.

If someone needs the dynamic range compression it can certainly be a minor miracle. I am fortunate that I do not need to use it in my situation because it is not my preference.

jaramill

02-21-12, 08:32 PM

My Denon has Midnight, Evening, Day and Off where as Marantz has it as Heavy, Medium, Light and Off.

There should a button on the receiver (behind door) and a button on the remote.

Or go into Menu -> Audio/Video Adjust -> Audio Adjust -> Audyssey Setting -> Dynamic Vol (set to Medium).

Ah gotcha! Will do. Thanks JChin.

jaramill

02-21-12, 08:35 PM

cel4145

02-21-12, 08:38 PM

I'm not really feeling the boom, or that really heavy hit in my chest that you feel with a real heavy bass.

It shouldn't boom, though. If you have good placement, you should get clean bass effects, no boom at all. As for the "hit in my chest" bass, that requires a lot of sub for a room. It's not like a car. How big is your room?

cel4145

02-21-12, 08:43 PM

Its interesting to see how wildly different db levels can differ between people with similar settings.

No doubt. Different room sizes, shapes, and other room acoustic factors. For instance, if I move my EX just a couple feet to the right, it decreases in output noticeably. I figured out that it probably has to do with the wooden floors over a basement. I read somewhere that the proximity to the studs that support the floor (I forget what you call them) can affect the bass output because of how the bass can resonate in the space underneath. And then concrete is different from wood floors. Add all that together, we are all definitely getting "wildly different" reactions from our subs.