Just place the order and take the heat for it:D Well, maybe that's bad advice. Nevermind.

She is partially correct. I am still working out locations for the added woofage. It is not easy making them blend in!

Hey Twisted,

That is awesome.:D Man, you are going to be in tweaker's heaven.;)

Let us all know what you think after your first movie or audio track.

Larry

**EDIT** Nevermind, Twisted I thought I read "placed the order", you were talking to weverb!

she politely said "we are done with the speaker thing with this house. Maybe if we get a bigger house."

Done,:eek::confused: we are never done with the speaker thing.;)

Larry

You should have seen my wife's reaction when I told her I wanted to add a second LFM-1 EX and second MBM! :( After a couple of questions and comments, she politely said "we are done with the speaker thing with this house. Maybe if we get a bigger house." I guess I am just going to have to wear her down or find some invisible paint/covers. :D

I've been thinking about adding an mbm to the plus I just got, but I'm going to wait a good while before I throw that one out. I'm thinking a good time would be after my wife goes on her annual trip with her three sisters in Sept.

Cloverfield about made my couch move with my fat butt on it, I can understand two pluses rattling a door out of plumb.

Done,:eek::confused: we are never done with the speaker thing.;)

Larry

That's exactly how I feel! :D

jtaka1, I would consider doing a manual setup with a good ol SPL meter and measuring tape. I've never had good results with Audyssy or anything similar. That could be user error on my part as well though lol. Break in should not take too long, if at all. I can't say that I noticed any difference after break in on my LFM-1 Plus. I can't describe phase nearly as well as the other guys. The carpet should be fine. My Plus is on some rather deep carpet, and it still sounds great. I am however going to buy the Gramma to put under it, depending on what Audiofreak has to say about it once he gets it. I hope these short and sweet answers help.

Hi jtaka1,

Congratulations on your LFm-2 purchase!

My subs appeared to “break in” after about 5-7 movies. Now, one of those movies was Cloverfield.

I set my gain on the sub to #3 while running Audyssey.

The phase control will help the sound waves from your sub get synced up with those coming from your main speakers. An easy, accurate way of setting the phase control is to reverse the connections on your main speakers (the black wire goes to the red terminal and the red wire to the black terminal). Now play a simple selection, like a jazz instrumental with a good walking bass line, on your system while you're sitting in your listening position. Have a friend flip the phase control on the sub until you hear the least amount of bass. Leave the setting there. Returning your speaker wires to their proper places will now allow you to hear the most bass from your sub. A RS Meter can help here too.

First, re-run Audyssey and set your levels with a RS Meter. Then have a listen to your favorite bass track or movie and experiment with the carpet and without. I really don’t think you need a piece of granite.

I have the 805 as well and Audyssey will set the sub, as well as the speakers, a little low. After running Audyssey, use a Radio Shack Meter and set your speaker trims to 75 dB & your sub to 78 – 80 dB.

I hope this helps! Let all of us know how it turns out.

Larry

Thanks guys, I will mess around with it. Still getting used to the subtleness of the sub compared to my boomy old HTIB onkyo sub. But I'm loving it a lot so far. I may have to invest in a SPL meter as well.

Yeah, an SPL meter is one of the better purchases I've made. After 4 years in the Artillery, and 4 years in the Infantry, my ears need an SPL meter to get the best results lol

Hello Peeps. Just got my Grammas in today and already have them set up. The Grammas came very quckly and were packed superbly. Thanks goes out to sweetwater.com. Lets just say, I am very pleased with the results thus far. That is, the bass is no longer muffled and as such in so much cleaner. In fact, the bass seems punchier and tighter as well which is just the way I prefer it to be. Here are a few pics for those that may be interested. Be sure to notice that I now have both of my Pluses behind my love-seat. I also want to take the opportunity to wish you all a Happy but Safe 4th of July.

Cheers,

Phil

PS: Feel free to share your thoughts as feedback is always welcomed. :):)

Hello Peeps. Just got my Grammas in today and already have them set up. The Grammas came very quckly and were packed superbly. Thanks goes out to sweetwater.com. Lets just say, I am very pleased with the results thus far. That is, the bass is no longer muffled and as such in so much cleaner. In fact, the bass seems punchier and tighter as well which is just the way I prefer it to be. Here are a few pics for those that may be interested. Be sure to notice that I now have both of my Pluses behind my love-seat. I also want to take the opportunity to wish you all a Happy but Safe 4th of July.

Cheers,

Phil

PS: Feel free to share your thoughts as feedback is always welcomed. :):)

Awesome, Phil! All I can say is "no MBM required!" I'm surprised your love seat hasn't capsized with you on it while watching a movie! You're making my setup feel more and more insufficient...

Awesome, Phil! All I can say is "no MBM required!" I'm surprised your love seat hasn't capsized with you on it while watching a movie! You're making my setup feel more and more insufficient...
Hey much appreciated. No need for your PB10-NSD's to feel insufficient. I know as I use to own one myself. Two would have really kicked some serious butt. I must say that the Grammas are honestly making a significant difference. One way to describe it would be for me to say the bass sounds much cleaner. It seems to sound a bit tighter and punchier as well. Not much, if any, overhang at all. I am convinced that the best place to put my Pluses is right behind my love-seat. If, any of you Outlaw owners are thinking about getting a Gramma or even a SubDude be sure to do it. It will be worth your time and money. I am so glad I did.

Cheers,

Phil

Hey much appreciated. No need for your PB10-NSD's to feel insufficient. I know as I use to own one myself. Two would have really kicked some serious butt. I must say that the Grammas are honestly making a significant difference. One way to describe it would be for me to say the bass sounds much cleaner. It seems to sound a bit tighter and punchier as well. Not much, if any, overhang at all. I am convinced that the best place to put my Pluses is right behind my love-seat. If, any of you Outlaw owners are thinking about getting a Gramma or even a SubDude be sure to do it. It will be worth your time and money. I am so glad I did.

Cheers,

Phil

Phil, do you think using something like Grammas underneath my PB10's would improve their sound? I don't find that they sound bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it'd be worth a try if it would make them sound even better.

Phil, do you think using something like Grammas underneath my PB10's would improve their sound? I don't find that they sound bad by any stretch of the imagination, but I think it'd be worth a try if it would make them sound even better.
To be honest, I am not really sure. If the PB10-NSD was a down-firing sub with down-firing ports then my answer would easily be a resounding YES. You may want to ask that question over on the SVS thread or contact them directly. Erik Kroner or Ed Mullen are both so helpful regarding things like that. My guess would be it sure wouldn't hurt anything. There are many PB10-NSD owners out there and as such sure some own or have owned a Gramma/SubDude. If you find any be sure to let us know what you found out. Or, if you order them be sure to post your initial impressions if you don't mind. Have a great 4th.

Cheers,

Phil

To be honest, I am not really sure. If the PB10-NSD was a down-firing sub with down-firing ports then my answer would easily be a resounding YES. You may want to ask that question over on the SVS thread or contact them directly. Erik Kroner or Ed Mullen are both so helpful regarding things like that. My guess would be it sure wouldn't hurt anything. There are many PB10-NSD owners out there and as such sure some own or have owned a Gramma/SubDude. If you find any be sure to let us know what you found out. Or, if you order them be sure to post your initial impressions if you don't mind. Have a great 4th.

Cheers,

Phil

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm not sure if I'll bother. It'll cost $100 to do it and I'm not exactly swimming in money, so I'd probably better hold off for now. I'm happy with how things are now, but if adding Grammas were a surefire way to make things even better, I'd consider it. Keep enjoying those LFM-1+'s and a happy 4th to you as well :).

Stephen

Be sure to notice that I now have both of my Pluses behind my love-seat. I also want to take the opportunity to wish you all a Happy but Safe 4th of July.

I sure hope your sofa has a seat-belt.:D:eek::D

Phil, thanks for the feedback and have a wonderful 4th of July.:)

Larry

Well, I just received my brand new LFM-1 EX, and I have put it through a bunch of music and movie testing. I am very impressed with its performance. I have been using an SVS PB12-ISD for the past several years since its release, and I subsequently upgraded to the SVS NSD driver.

First, the Outlaw is a very sharp sub. The plexiglass top looks great, and while the Outlaw is a large sub, it looks quite good in the corner. And obviously due to the downfiring woofer and ports, placement is very flexible. I am not a very technical guy, so I don't run objective tests. I do of course calibrate my system, so I know everything is dialed in pretty well, as it was with my SVS.

The bottom line is, the Outlaw is much less localizable than the SVS. It blends seamlessly with my Axiom M60 towers. The bass is a bit more tuneful than the SVS. I have just been running it in max. extension, but I will likely try out the max. output, and it is nice to have the option. Music performance is stellar. With movies it packs quite a wallop, but it never loses its tightness.

I consider it a bargain at the current price. Considering the LFM-1 Plus is $100 less, and offers most of the performance of the EX, that one is steal. But I figured if I was doing it, I wanted to do it "right" and get their flagship. That's about it--back to listening.

Hello jeffrey r,

Welcome to the Outlaw Family.:cool:

Thanks for your thoughts on your new EX. Ya, sometimes I wished I had gone for the EX over the +.:D

Good luck and keep us all posted with your experiences.

Larry

I'm not exactly swimming in money

Hi Stephen,

That is exactly what this Forum is designed to do.:D

Larry

Thanks for the reply. Yeah, I'm not sure if I'll bother. It'll cost $100 to do it and I'm not exactly swimming in money, so I'd probably better hold off for now. I'm happy with how things are now, but if adding Grammas were a surefire way to make things even better, I'd consider it. Keep enjoying those LFM-1+'s and a happy 4th to you as well :).

Stephen
Thanks Stephen. I would at the very least look into it. Who knows, it may make a significant difference. Hey, if it doesn't I am sure one of the Outlaw owners would snatch them right up if you should ever decide to sell them. Of course, at a reduced price, but at least you would not be out all of the $100. Just a thought.

Cheers,

Phil

I sure hope your sofa has a seat-belt.:D:eek::D

Phil, thanks for the feedback and have a wonderful 4th of July.:)

Larry
Hi Larry hope all is well my friend. I have turned them up a bit, but nothing too scary. It is just sooooo solid and clean. Kinda spooky if you will. :eek::eek: Anyways, I hope to get some more fine-tuning done as well.

Cheers,

Phil

Welcome to the Outlaw Family.

Thanks--glad to join the club. The Outlaw subs are truly excellent. I heard the original LFM-1 at a HT show in NYC a few years ago, so I knew the Outlaw subs could perform. My SVS served me very well over the years, and it will go in our basement system--the little Velodyne VX-10 will go I don't know where. Admittedly, I am sure SVS has made improvements in their box subs since my sub was released (it was one of their initial box subs). But the LFM-1 EX is clearly a more refined sub than my PB12.

And I love the downfiring woofer and ports--I have a 3.5 year old son and another on the way. My son made good use of my SVS port for storage for his cars and such. :) So the Outlaw is very practical.

And I love the downfiring woofer and ports--I have a 3.5 year old son and another on the way. My son made good use of my SVS port for storage for his cars and such. :) So the Outlaw is very practical.


:D:D:D

Phil,

Thanks for the review and pictures. Looks great! How tall are the Grammas?

Thanks.

Phil,

Thanks for the review and pictures. Looks great! How tall are the Grammas?

Thanks.
No problem. The Grammas are 2 3/4" tall. I am convinced that they really do make a big difference. If, you are thinking of getting one my vote would be to go for it. You will be glad you did. :):)

Cheers,

Phil

Thanks Phil, for making me spend more money :D My Grammas are on their way. Placed the order last night. I had a feeling your review would be favorable, and I would be ordering them soon. I can't wait to hear them. That tightness and punchy bass is what I always crave. It sounds like the Gramma is what I've been looking for.

Hello Fellow Outlaw Owners,

I am continuously tweaking my two LFM-1+ subs to try and get high SPL as well as a smooth as possible FR from 20Hz to 200Hz before I start with my PEQ. The best (so far) FR comes from having 1 sub in the front left corner and the other sub in the back right corner. I have experimented with a variety of materials to help lift the sub slightly off our fairly deep carpet. I have used MDF, tile, blocks of hardwood and a standard 2” x 4” to achieve this goal. I was trying to achieve a height of 2” from the top of the carpet to the bottom of the sub.

WAF was none existent for any of my solutions until today. I was cleaning my workroom and noticed a sort of “shipping tube” that I had and the light bulb went off. A few months ago I purchased a small amount of indoor/outdoor carpeting from Lowes and since I purchased the last six feet, included the “shipping core or tube” that the carpet was rolled up on.

Here are the measurements. The tube’s OD measures 1 ¾” in diameter and the ID measures 1 ¼” in diameter. I decided to cut them in 2.5” lengths to offset the sinking into the carpet. Our carpet pile is ½” and under it is a ½” thick high-density carpet pad. I used my miter saw to cut 4 pieces and then used my utility knife to open the ID slightly by removing a couple of layers of paper until the spiked feet fit snugly into the tube. This way, when I turn the sub over, they stay in place. The bottom of the sub is now exactly 2” above the carpet. I have attached pictures.

The WAF is through the roof and I don't have to paint them black. I set the trim level to each sub at 78-80dB and together they are now reading 84-86dB. Fired up Master & Commander [DVD] and the first battle sequence registered my very first SPL reading of 115dB with the Onkyo 805 playing at –15dB from reference level. I followed with Cloverfield [Blu-ray] and recorded the second straight SPL reading of 115 dB. Previously, the highest level was 110 dB.

I am going to have two days off later this week and now I am ready to haul in the desktop computer and fire up Room EQ Wizard and start taking measurements and gather the information needed to input into the PEQ.

Larry

Thanks Phil, for making me spend more money :D My Grammas are on their way. Placed the order last night. I had a feeling your review would be favorable, and I would be ordering them soon. I can't wait to hear them. That tightness and punchy bass is what I always crave. It sounds like the Gramma is what I've been looking for.
Hi Dave. I think it is a good move ordering (2) of the Grammas. I am sure you will notice the difference just as I have. Congrats on the purchase.

Cheers,

Phil

Hello Fellow Outlaw Owners,

I am continuously tweaking my two LFM-1+ subs to try and get high SPL as well as a smooth as possible FR from 20Hz to 200Hz before I start with my PEQ. The best (so far) FR comes from having 1 sub in the front left corner and the other sub in the back right corner. I have experimented with a variety of materials to help lift the sub slightly off our fairly deep carpet. I have used MDF, tile, blocks of hardwood and a standard 2” x 4” to achieve this goal. I was trying to achieve a height of 2” from the top of the carpet to the bottom of the sub.

WAF was none existent for any of my solutions until today. I was cleaning my workroom and noticed a sort of “shipping tube” that I had and the light bulb went off. A few months ago I purchased a small amount of indoor/outdoor carpeting from Lowes and since I purchase the last six feet, included the “shipping core or tube” that the carpet was rolled up on.

Here are the measurements. The tube’s OD measures 1 ¾” in diameter and the ID measures 1 ¼” in diameter. I decided to cut them in 2.5” lengths to offset the sinking into the carpet. Our carpet pile is ½” and under it is a ½” thick high-density carpet pad. I used my miter saw to cut 4 pieces and then used my utility knife to open the ID slightly by removing a couple of layers of paper until the spiked feet fit snugly into the tube. This way, when I turn the sub over, they stay in place. The bottom of the sub is now exactly 2” above the carpet. I have attached pictures.

The WAF is through the roof and I don't have to paint them black. I set the trim level to each sub at 78-80dB and together they are now reading 84-86dB. Fired up Master & Commander [DVD] and the first battle sequence registered my very first SPL reading of 115dB with the Onkyo 805 playing at –15dB from reference level. I followed with Cloverfield [Blu-ray] and recorded the second straight SPL reading of 115 dB. Previously, the highest level was 110 dB.

I am going to have two days off later this week and now I am ready to haul in the desktop computer and fire up Room EQ Wizard and start taking measurements and gather the information needed to input into the PEQ.

Larry
Heya Larry hope all is well. This is actually a good idea. Much less expensive too......LOL!!!!!!!:p:p Hope you have had a good 4th.

Cheers,

Phil

Hello Fellow Outlaw Owners,

I am continuously tweaking my two LFM-1+ subs to try and get high SPL as well as a smooth as possible FR from 20Hz to 200Hz before I start with my PEQ. The best (so far) FR comes from having 1 sub in the front left corner and the other sub in the back right corner. I have experimented with a variety of materials to help lift the sub slightly off our fairly deep carpet. I have used MDF, tile, blocks of hardwood and a standard 2” x 4” to achieve this goal. I was trying to achieve a height of 2” from the top of the carpet to the bottom of the sub.

WAF was none existent for any of my solutions until today. I was cleaning my workroom and noticed a sort of “shipping tube” that I had and the light bulb went off. A few months ago I purchased a small amount of indoor/outdoor carpeting from Lowes and since I purchase the last six feet, included the “shipping core or tube” that the carpet was rolled up on.

Here are the measurements. The tube’s OD measures 1 ¾” in diameter and the ID measures 1 ¼” in diameter. I decided to cut them in 2.5” lengths to offset the sinking into the carpet. Our carpet pile is ½” and under it is a ½” thick high-density carpet pad. I used my miter saw to cut 4 pieces and then used my utility knife to open the ID slightly by removing a couple of layers of paper until the spiked feet fit snugly into the tube. This way, when I turn the sub over, they stay in place. The bottom of the sub is now exactly 2” above the carpet. I have attached pictures.

The WAF is through the roof and I don't have to paint them black. I set the trim level to each sub at 78-80dB and together they are now reading 84-86dB. Fired up Master & Commander [DVD] and the first battle sequence registered my very first SPL reading of 115dB with the Onkyo 805 playing at –15dB from reference level. I followed with Cloverfield [Blu-ray] and recorded the second straight SPL reading of 115 dB. Previously, the highest level was 110 dB.

I am going to have two days off later this week and now I am ready to haul in the desktop computer and fire up Room EQ Wizard and start taking measurements and gather the information needed to input into the PEQ.

Larry

I'm liking this idea alot. Thanks for sharing Larry

Heya Larry hope all is well. This is actually a good idea. Much less expensive too......LOL!!!!!!!:p:p Hope you have had a good 4th.

Cheers,

Phil

Hi Phil,

Everything is going good, my friend. After I run the REW, I still might buy the Grammas as well.:D I am having some WAF problems with the Grammas.;)

Enjoy your week!

Larry

Hello everyone. I am a soon to be proud owner of a LFM-1 EX. Oredered it bout 30 minutes ago over the phone. It was from the b-stock they have on hand which made it $549 and they cover the shipping. If i decide i do not like it i do have to pay for return shipping though.

From what i was told b-stock may have some slight blemishes and a slightly used look. If that is the case i have no issues whatsoever. That i can handle. He assured me it would never pass quality control if it looked like it went thru a ringer.

This is definitely my first "real subwoofer" so to speak. My current Polk PSW12 is gonna feel like a transistor radio compared to this thing. The Polk has served me well over the past couple years so i cannot talk it down to much. The Outlaw i feel will just be an incredible upgrade from all i have read about it.

It came down literally to this sub and the ed a3-300. The LFM-1 Plus was the original target but with the EX available via b-stock i decided why not. I was planning on spending $500 for the a3-300. I really hope this was the correct decision. I cannot test them side by side so i may never truely know but i am happy with the decision and bottom line, thats all an end user can truely hope for.

Ill update once i get it home and fired/calibrated up. Thanks to you all.

You got a great deal kendog, and I think you will be very pleased with the EX. I guess I should have called Outlaw, as I checked their b-stock online and didn't see the EX listed. I likely would have taken a chance on b-stock for the price that you got, but oh well, I got an A-stock instead.

While it is pretty big, it is a very attractive sub. I like the fact that I can choose maximum extension with one port plugged, or maximum output with no ports plugged. I have currently settled on maximum output, but like having the option. And the sound quality of the EX is outstanding. Very tuneful bass that blends very well with main speakers, but it still goes very low and can rattle your house with ease. Enjoy, and let us know how you like it.

Hello kendog1967

You made a great decision!

That is less than I paid for my LFM-1+ delivered to Cincinnati, Ohio.

Please check back and let all of us know what you think.

Larry

Hi Phil,

Everything is going good, my friend. After I run the REW, I still might buy the Grammas as well.:D I am having some WAF problems with the Grammas.;)

Enjoy your week!

Larry
Hello Larry, sorry about the WAF issues. I used to have to deal with that, but no longer. However, I admit it does get a bit lonely sometimes. The Grammas sure wouldn't hurt anything if you and the wife ever do decide to get them. Just be sure to keep us posted my friend. Have a great day.

Cheers,

Phil

Hello everyone. I am a soon to be proud owner of a LFM-1 EX. Oredered it bout 30 minutes ago over the phone. It was from the b-stock they have on hand which made it $549 and they cover the shipping. If i decide i do not like it i do have to pay for return shipping though.

From what i was told b-stock may have some slight blemishes and a slightly used look. If that is the case i have no issues whatsoever. That i can handle. He assured me it would never pass quality control if it looked like it went thru a ringer.

This is definitely my first "real subwoofer" so to speak. My current Polk PSW12 is gonna feel like a transistor radio compared to this thing. The Polk has served me well over the past couple years so i cannot talk it down to much. The Outlaw i feel will just be an incredible upgrade from all i have read about it.

It came down literally to this sub and the ed a3-300. The LFM-1 Plus was the original target but with the EX available via b-stock i decided why not. I was planning on spending $500 for the a3-300. I really hope this was the correct decision. I cannot test them side by side so i may never truely know but i am happy with the decision and bottom line, thats all an end user can truely hope for.

Ill update once i get it home and fired/calibrated up. Thanks to you all.
Woohooo congrats kendog!!!!!! Hey, I would think you made a good choice. I have been impressed with my Pluses so far and I am sure the EX is even more impressive. Kudos to you.

Cheers,


Phil

Fellow Owners,

My wife is out with the GFs and it is time for me to be 20 years old again.:D

I played a couple of tracks to see what they sounded like with two LFM-1+ crankin' out the bass:

For the HD-DVD crowd, I played U2 Rattle and Hum. "With or Without You", track 15 and there is some serious bass at 01:07:43 mark. I am using DD+ and measured 108 dB @ reference level on the Onkyo 805.

Next up is Blu-ray, on a side note, I have always been Purple. Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You In Time. The song choice was "The Hand That Feeds" using the DD TruHD 5.1 track. WOW:eek::eek:. This is the Cloverfield of concert titles. I had the 805 set at -6.5dB and when I went to look at my SPL meter (attached to a tripod anchored between the sofa seats), it had been bounced to the floor!:eek::D:eek: Play this as loud as you can. This song has bass from start to finish.

I am always looking for bass titles, so please chime in with any and all recommendations.

Larry

I found a lot of great bass in the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over". I think it was more for the MBM than the EX. It might not be very low, but there was a lot of good quality bass there. I know the is a Linkin Park (Reanimation album) track that is suppose to have some really good low bass that many reviewers use for testing. I cannot remember the track though.

Fellow Owners,

My wife is out with the GFs and it is time for me to be 20 years old again.:D

I played a couple of tracks to see what they sounded like with two LFM-1+ crankin' out the bass:

For the HD-DVD crowd, I played U2 Rattle and Hum. "With or Without You", track 15 and there is some serious bass at 01:07:43 mark. I am using DD+ and measured 108 dB @ reference level on the Onkyo 805.

Next up is Blu-ray, on a side note, I have always been Purple. Nine Inch Nails Live: Beside You In Time. The song choice was "The Hand That Feeds" using the DD TruHD 5.1 track. WOW:eek::eek:. This is the Cloverfield of concert titles. I had the 805 set at -6.5dB and when I went to look at my SPL meter (attached to a tripod anchored between the sofa seats), it had been bounced to the floor!:eek::D:eek: Play this as loud as you can. This song has bass from start to finish.

I am always looking for bass titles, so please chime in with any and all recommendations.

Larry

Good choices, particularly the NIN song. :p I feel the need to put my Motley Crue dvd in for a test drive.

I had Sat night off from the family, and watched Live Free or Die Hard a "bit" louder than usual....That is until a big thunder boomer blocked my Directv signal for a half hour.:mad:

I did notice the HD signal didn't sound as good as even the SD dvd does.

I found a lot of great bass in the Eagles "Hell Freezes Over". I think it was more for the MBM than the EX. It might not be very low, but there was a lot of good quality bass there. I know the is a Linkin Park (Reanimation album) track that is suppose to have some really good low bass that many reviewers use for testing. I cannot remember the track though.

Thanks for the suggestions, weverb!

Larry

I did notice the HD signal didn't sound as good as even the SD dvd does.

I agree with you Rivrrat.:(

Larry

ken,

I looked at the ED A3-300 & outlaw as well. I went with the LFM-1+ and have no regrets. I never had a chance to hear the ED, so I can't compare direct either but the outlaw is outstanding. I have yet to have anyone not be impressed by it for either music or movies.
best of luck.

Thanks for all the "Chest Bumps" on a good purchase. :D

It left Outlaw today and is now in Fed-Ex's hands. I am not sure if it will make it here by Friday (though im hoping). If it does there will be some hardcore calibrating and movie watching going on this weekend.

Never noticed this thread, thought I'd pop in, proud owner of the LFM1-EX here, hard to beat for the money. Nice and fast with music and can kick you right in the gut with movies, I'd recommend it to anyone.

Thanks for checking in Patrick.

Let's us know what it sounds like when you finally add the surrounds.;)

Larry

Thanks for checking in Patrick.

Let's us know what it sounds like when you finally add the surrounds.;)

Larry

I know I'm terrible having all this sound equipment and only stereo :D I even just changed up the RB-81s I had for Energy RC-50s so I'm still at square one. It's mostly because of my tiny apartment and my love for music so I'm always going for better sound with movies coming in second. Even in stereo though movies with the Outlaw is :eek: It fills out my music nicely too and has no trouble blending in and keeping up with the speakers. Now I've got lonely RB-81s.. and a spare maranatz receiver, I'm thinking maybe another LFM-1 EX and I've got a killer PC setup

Now I've got lonely RB-81s.. and a spare maranatz receiver, I'm thinking maybe another LFM-1 EX and I've got a killer PC setup

Yes, that would be a Killer setup.:cool:

Larry

Heck, I would get the second EX and run both of them on either side of the mains for music and HT! :eek:

another user for your outlaw:
check out gizmodo or you tube for:

Cornstarch + Water + Subwoofer = Amazing Physics Video

Heck, I would get the second EX and run both of them on either side of the mains for music and HT! :eek:

OK,
LF speaker....check
RF speaker....check
LF LFM-EX....check
RF LFM-EX....check

Yikes:eek:

weverb, didn't you tell us that we were a bad influence:D:D

Larry

OK,
LF speaker....check
RF speaker....check
LF LFM-EX....check
RF LFM-EX....check

Yikes:eek:

weverb, didn't you tell us that we were a bad influence:D:D

Larry

Two EX's! :eek:

Would love to see pictures of that set-up. And yes, we are all bad influences! Keep it up guys. :D

Hello Fellow Owners,

I am now moving on from my earlier post talking about Max SPL with my two LFM-1+s. Now, I want to hear an "EQ version" in my theater room and have the ability to switch back and forth between "movie mode" and "music mode".

I DL the Room EQ Wizard (free) from that "other" forum and loaded it on to my desktop computer with a proper sound card. I ordered a Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro (BFP) Model #DSP1124P ($100 from zzsounds.com) to be used as a PEQ. I ordered some misc. cables and such from monoprice.com for $20. You will also need a RS SPL Meter.

This took me the better part of two full days to accomplish the EQ....I'm a little slow:o. First, I never dreamed where my 2 subs ended up for a placement that is "EQ'able". I had a monster null at my LP until I moved both subs behind the LP. I have 1 sub in my back right corner and the second sub is located right behind my sofa against the back wall. They are located within 7' of each other.:eek:

Now, I have a couple of serious peaks after calibrating each sub to 75dB.
The REW software gave me the information to input into the BFP filters to tame the peaks and now I have some amazing "smooth" bass that I notice on my concert Blu-ray discs.

This really was an education for me and I will continue to tweak the set-up endlessly.:D If you love to tweak, this is an inexpensive way to enter the world of sub EQ.

Larry

Just a note to anyone on the fence, there is now a free shipping promotion on anything over $500 at Outlaw, which would of course include the LFM-1 EX. That saves almost $100 off the purchase.

As an aside, I ordered my EX about 2 weeks ago, so I called up to see if they would give me the promotion under the typical 30-day price protection, and interestingly, they wouldn'd do it. Outside of 30 days, I would totally understand it, but having ordered just 2 weeks ago, I found this unusual for an internet company. Kind of stings a little bit.

Anyway, for anyone who has appropriately procrastinated or just has better timing than me, this is a good deal...

That's lame, someone in this thread wanted a second LFM something like 40 days after buying the first and they gave him the discount.

Just a note to anyone on the fence, there is now a free shipping promotion on anything over $500 at Outlaw, which would of course include the LFM-1 EX. That saves almost $100 off the purchase.

As an aside, I ordered my EX about 2 weeks ago, so I called up to see if they would give me the promotion under the typical 30-day price protection, and interestingly, they wouldn'd do it. Outside of 30 days, I would totally understand it, but having ordered just 2 weeks ago, I found this unusual for an internet company. Kind of stings a little bit.

Anyway, for anyone who has appropriately procrastinated or just has better timing than me, this is a good deal...

Hi jeffrey r,

You might want to call or e-mail Scott at Outlaw Audio. That is what I did when I wanted to add another LFM-1+ after my initial order. Scott told me to call in and place the order with Jennifer. When I called, she initially said no, and then I told her about the e-mail from Scott. I was put on hold and a few minutes later, I received the discount for ordering a second sub.

I know this is a different scenario then yours, but it is worth a shot!

Good Luck,

Larry

I noticed during my B-stock crawl that Outlaw has discontinued the LFM-2. I wonder if is being redesgned or are they dropping the sallest of their subs permanently? Too bad..I was hoping to grab one someday...I guess we know why thye dropped the price to 199.00 for a while :)

Just a note to anyone on the fence, there is now a free shipping promotion on anything over $500 at Outlaw, which would of course include the LFM-1 EX. That saves almost $100 off the purchase.

As an aside, I ordered my EX about 2 weeks ago, so I called up to see if they would give me the promotion under the typical 30-day price protection, and interestingly, they wouldn'd do it. Outside of 30 days, I would totally understand it, but having ordered just 2 weeks ago, I found this unusual for an internet company. Kind of stings a little bit.

Anyway, for anyone who has appropriately procrastinated or just has better timing than me, this is a good deal...

Ok, now I'm really depressed. I just go my sub yesterday. I nearly canceled my order when I saw shipping was $65 and went with a ED instead. I will say that for the little I used the sub last night it BLEW ME AWAY! My other sub is a jbl e250p and man the upgrade was so amazing that I almost feel guilty selling the JBL; It should just be trashed :) I really didn't think I hear that much of a difference. Did I mention I really wish I could get my shipping cost back?

Hi jeffrey r,

You might want to call or e-mail Scott at Outlaw Audio. That is what I did when I wanted to add another LFM-1+ after my initial order. Scott told me to call in and place the order with Jennifer. When I called, she initially said no, and then I told her about the e-mail from Scott. I was put on hold and a few minutes later, I received the discount for ordering a second sub.

I know this is a different scenario then yours, but it is worth a shot!

Good Luck,

Larry

I did the same thing back in April when I purchased my 1st EX. Then 3 weeks later called Scott and ordered the 2nd one with the discount. He seems to be the one to deal with. I talked to him when I placed both orders.

Oh Hello Everyone,

I have been lurking and learning on here for the last couple of months while I put together my new HT. This seemed like a good spot to jump in. I have picked up quite a bit of useful information and I hope from time to time I can add something useful.

Thanks to all,
David

Hello Daves World,

Welcome to the AVS Forum and The Outlaw Thread!:)

Thanks for checking in and all of us look forward to your thoughts.

Larry

Ok, now I'm really depressed. I just go my sub yesterday. I nearly canceled my order when I saw shipping was $65 and went with a ED instead. I will say that for the little I used the sub last night it BLEW ME AWAY! My other sub is a jbl e250p and man the upgrade was so amazing that I almost feel guilty selling the JBL; It should just be trashed :) I really didn't think I hear that much of a difference. Did I mention I really wish I could get my shipping cost back?

Hi nathanieljla,

I would e-mail Scott at Outlaw Audio and ask for the refund. You never know.

What model did you get? I would assume the EX?

Larry

What model did you get? I would assume the EX?
Larry

No, actually the The LFM-1 Plus. I was trying to stick to around 500. That's kinda why the shipping seemed like such a stringer as it blew my 500 budget. I guess maybe the LFM+ wouldn't count for the 500+ free shipping cause it's 1 buck less :)

one buck short my man :(

Anyone have an email address for Scott?

^^^ Open up a support account, and send a request directed to Scott. He should reply fairly quickly.

http://support.outlawaudio.com/cgi-bin/perldesk/pdesk.cgi

^^^ Open up a support account, and send a request directed to Scott. He should reply fairly quickly.

http://support.outlawaudio.com/cgi-bin/perldesk/pdesk.cgi

Thank you very much! :)

Audiogon lists it as sjackson@outlawaudio.com

Thanks. Already contacted.

Good lord! I just watched Hot Fuzz with the LFM+. That movie is bass crazy! Good times. Just when I was "getting used to" my Plus, it once again amazes me.

^^^^^^

Hot Fuzz is 5 stars all the way! Twisted Dave, thanks for the reminder.

Larry

It is also a funny movie to watch. Unlike Cloverfield. Has anyone watched Sean of the Dead? It is done by the same people. I am wondering if has the same bass.

Hey weverb,

The HD-DVD DD-EX Version of Shaun of the Dead is listed on DrPainMD's thread for movies with Bass. There is no "star" rating for this title and there are no timestamps or waterfalls showing the bass energy.

Larry

Hey weverb,

The HD-DVD DD-EX Version of Shaun of the Dead is listed on DrPainMD's thread for movies with Bass. There is no "star" rating for this title and there are no timestamps or waterfalls showing the bass energy.

Larry

Thanks for the info. Was just wondering if anyone had experience with it or if it was overlooked.

what made you choose Outlaw over HSU . I know many of you before buying outlaw looked in to HSU subs since outlaw is made based on HSU subs . I'm looking at VTF-2 MK 3 and LFM-1 Plus i know they are almost the same but what will make outlaw stand out more from hsu This will be my first reall sub for a room of 1500 cubic feet

what made you choose Outlaw over HSU . I know many of you before buying outlaw looked in to HSU subs since outlaw is made based on HSU subs . I'm looking at VTF-2 MK 3 and LFM-1 Plus i know they are almost the same but what will make outlaw stand out more from hsu This will be my first reall sub for a room of 1500 cubic feet

At the time, price, down firing (Outlaw - more flexable room placement) versus side firing (HSU), and size (see pix on pg 7). And of course the inevitable WAF. I should mention, I did go with HSU by adding the MBM.

how much does difference down firing makes VS side firing

how much does difference down firing makes VS side firing

According to HSU (I believe) you need to face the side firing sub at a wall or the back of a couch. Usually just a couple of inches away. As you can see in my pix, that was not an option. Where the sub had to be placed, there was no clearance for the sub woofer excursion. With down firing, you can place the sub any where. In addition, with down firing, you are less like to hear port noise (puffing).

The HSU ports also fire out the back. Not in the same direction as the subwoofer. (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/5762-hsu-vtf-3-mk3-maximum-output.html) If you were to add the Turbo, they then fire out towards the front of the sub box. A lot of times, that is where the WAF kicks in overdrive.

If you were to add the Turbo, they then fire out towards the front of the sub box. A lot of times, that is where the WAF kicks in overdrive.

That is so accurate, weverb.:)

I'll toss in my $.02 on the LFM-1+ vs. HSU:eek:

I looked very, very hard at HSU and I liked their products and their support on this forum as well as their own forum. For me it came down to the following:

-Down firing sub gave me more placement options.
-Great WAF through a dynamite looking sub.
-High WAF allowed me the opportunity to purchase two subs.:D:D:D
-Saved some $$$$$.

I would have been happy with either one. Life is so much easier when The Wife is happy, too.;)

Larry

are all HSU subs are side firing ?

can someone post some pictures of LFM-1+ . Outlaw have only one pic on the web

are all HSU subs are side firing ?

No. I believe the smaller VTF2 series fire down.

-High WAF allowed me the opportunity to purchase two subs.:D:D:D

Lucky man! :D

I'm looking at VTF-2 MK 3 or LFM-1+ for my room . so if the sub is side firing Than the woofer should face the couch and ports out to the room or toward the wall ? Now with down firing will the sub sound as good as one right up to the couch ?

can someone post some pictures of LFM-1+ . Outlaw have only one pic on the web

Hi nosferatu2xlc,

Check out Phil's pics here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=13965809#post13965809

Larry

I'm looking at VTF-2 MK 3 or LFM-1+ for my room . so if the sub is side firing Than the woofer should face the couch and ports out to the room or toward the wall ? Now with down firing will the sub sound as good as one right up to the couch ?

well, I'll continue with my $.02 :D

Placing a sub behind my sofa "feels & sounds" better to me then placing it at the side of the sofa. REW software also showed me a better FR, too. FWIW, I don't think it will matter side vs. down when the sub is right behind the LP.

I looked at the VTF-2 MK3 and didn't like the 250 watt amp vs. the 350 watt amp with the LFM-1+. For the same $$$$, I'll take the 350 watt amp. Also, right now, Outlaw has a free shipping promotion.

I really compared the VTF-3 MK3 with it's 4" ports and 350 watt amp to the LFM-1+. As weverb has mentioned, no way The Wife was going to allow a "Turbo Package" to gain entrance to our theater room.:D

Any of these subs will sound great in your 1500 cubic foot room.

Larry

here is my room , i am planning to place the sub on ether side of the couch or in one of the corners of the wall that the couch is against. any input of where is the best place for the sub is appreciated
https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/living.jpg

Since you have options, just have a long enough cord and try all of them. It is going to come down to what sounds the best in your room. You are in a similar situation as me. I cannot move my couch out away from the wall. I would start in the far left upper corner by the light.

^^^^^^^

I agree with weverb....

I think you will find that a sub placement as far away from the large opening into your dining area/kitchen will sound best.

Larry

i thought that the closer the sub is to the listener the more Bump you will feel

The plus is $499 on Outlaw website. Don't see "Free Shipping" anywhere. Is shipping free?

The plus is $499 on Outlaw website. Don't see "Free Shipping" anywhere. Is shipping free?

If you spend $500 or more.

i thought that the closer the sub is to the listener the more Bump you will feel

But sometimes it is also easier to locate.

The plus is $499 on Outlaw website. Don't see "Free Shipping" anywhere. Is shipping free?

Damn It! It is the $1 short thing again.:o:o I keep forgetting!

Outlaw made sure that LFM-1+ didn't qualify. So, I would add an outlaw t-shirt to the shopping cart.:D

Larry

i thought that the closer the sub is to the listener the more Bump you will feel

The LFM-1+ will give you plenty of "bump" in your space!

Larry

what made you choose Outlaw over HSU . I know many of you before buying outlaw looked in to HSU subs since outlaw is made based on HSU subs . I'm looking at VTF-2 MK 3 and LFM-1 Plus i know they are almost the same but what will make outlaw stand out more from hsu This will be my first reall sub for a room of 1500 cubic feet
Hello there thought I would add my .02 here. As a former owner of a Hsu VTF-3 MK III and a current owner of (2) Outlaw LFM-1 PLuses I thought I would chime in. Unless, you are going to get the VTF3.3, then I believe the LFM-1Plus is a better buy when compared to the VTF-2 MKIII. That is, the Plus is a very capable sub, but the 3.3 is a bit more articulate in the midbass region and will have more output down deep. The difference is not huge by any means, but noticeable nonetheless. My vote would be for the Plus in your situation-unless, of course, you decide on the 3.3.

Cheers,

Phil

well, I'll continue with my $.02 :D

Placing a sub behind my sofa "feels & sounds" better to me then placing it at the side of the sofa. REW software also showed me a better FR, too. FWIW, I don't think it will matter side vs. down when the sub is right behind the LP.

I looked at the VTF-2 MK3 and didn't like the 250 watt amp vs. the 350 watt amp with the LFM-1+. For the same $$$$, I'll take the 350 watt amp. Also, right now, Outlaw has a free shipping promotion.

I really compared the VTF-3 MK3 with it's 4" ports and 350 watt amp to the LFM-1+. As weverb has mentioned, no way The Wife was going to allow a "Turbo Package" to gain entrance to our theater room.:D

Any of these subs will sound great in your 1500 cubic foot room.

Larry

Hi Larry like this? However, mine are behind my love-seat. ;);) Be sure to notice that both of my Pluses are setting on top of the Grammas.

Cheers,

Phil

Glade to see that I am not the only one who has not taken the protective paper off the glass.

Glade to see that I am not the only one who has not taken the protective paper off the glass.
Yeah, several has mentioned I need to take it off. However, I see no need until I am fully convinced where they will be placed. That way, I will not smear it all up w/fingerprints. Heck, the re-sale value will be higher if I decide to leave the paper on. Of course, I would also have to sell them which may be a good while. ;);)

Cheers,

Phil

i think i will pull a trigger on one ..... for about 4 months i was set on HSU and in matter of 3 days i went to Outlaw

just tell people the paper is a limited edition designer top as opposed to the normal plexiglass.(mine is still on as well)
my brother in law had people ask how much more the "blue" dishwasher was over the white.... the "blue" being the protective cling wrap used in shipping

Hehe live a little guys... pull it off!

Let your hair down!

Go crazy!

Took mine off the day I got it ;)

i think i will pull a trigger on one ..... for about 4 months i was set on HSU and in matter of 3 days i went to Outlaw

That is exactly what I did....I looked at HSU for months and never pulled the trigger. A fellow AVS Forum member pointed me towards Outlaw and BAM, I ordered it and then 45 days later, BAM, I ordered another one.:eek:

I am sure you will be very happy and let all of us know when you get it set up!:)

Larry

Hi Larry like this? However, mine are behind my love-seat. ;);) Be sure to notice that both of my Pluses are setting on top of the Grammas.

Cheers,

Phil

Hey Phil,

Yes, just like that!

The Grammas look good and that has to sound amazing in your space.
BTW, it is good to see you back on this thread again my friend.:)

Larry

Hehe live a little guys... pull it off!

Let your hair down!

Go crazy!

Took mine off the day I got it ;)

Imatk, I completely agree.:cool:

Larry

my brother in law had people ask how much more the "blue" dishwasher was over the white.... the "blue" being the protective cling wrap used in shipping

:D:D:D

ill post some pictures of my HT the sub will be running with PSB and my new Kuro :)

Hey Phil,

Yes, just like that!

The Grammas look good and that has to sound amazing in your space.
BTW, it is good to see you back on this thread again my friend.:)

Larry
Hi Larry and thanks very much my friend. Yes, the Pluses do sound very good in my small ht room. Most of the time, I have to turn them down when watching movies. However, the Grammas do the job quite nicely.

Cheers,

Phil

Any Canadian owners of the Outlaw LFM EX or PLUS out there? Having researched buying a sub I feel my head is going to explode(no pun intended;)). I called Outlaw audio today and asked them the usual question(being Canadian) about duty,shipping and brookerage fees and was told by their CSR all these incurred cost are determinded by UPS and they have no control over it. I used a shipping calulator and was shocked to see that a $499.00 plus would cost nearly 35% more to ship up here. Anybody have any ideas:confused:.

Thanks, Bill

Hey everyone I just ordered my LFM-Plus yesterday Outlaw has a special anything over $500 & free shipping so I couldn't pass it up.

Hello jmjacks,

Welcome to the AVS Forum and the Outlaw Owners Thread.:)

You are really going to enjoy this sub. Check back with your thoughts and any questions you might have.

Larry

I used a shipping calulator and was shocked to see that a $499.00 plus would cost nearly 35% more to ship up here. Anybody have any ideas:confused:.

Thanks, Bill

Hi Bill,

I guess the free shipping promotion doesn't apply for shipments to Canada.:confused: You could always add the t-shirt to your cart to go over $500.

Wow, a 35% difference in shipping costs. So much for free trade between our countries.:(

Larry

Hi Bill,

I guess the free shipping promotion doesn't apply for shipments to Canada.:confused: You could always add the t-shirt to your cart to go over $500.

Wow, a 35% difference in shipping costs. So much for free trade between our countries.:(

Larry

Hi Larry, you'd think our countries where divided by an ocean. I did speak to Jenninfer and she told me that they will honor the no shipping discount BUT I'll have to pay the difference of $34.53, along with that there's taxes,duty and brokerage fees which could amount to $75.00. Another option would be the svs pb12 but it retails for 699.00 plus taxes in Canada. Anyways, I would like to say thanks to (Phil) audiofreak or speakerman;) about setting me straight in our little exchange:).

Thanks, Bill

Hi Larry, you'd think our countries where divided by an ocean. I did speak to Jenninfer and she told me that they will honor the no shipping discount BUT I'll have to pay the difference of $34.53, along with that there's taxes,duty and brokerage fees which could amount to $75.00. Another option would be the svs pb12 but it retails for 699.00 plus taxes in Canada. Anyways, I would like to say thanks to (Phil) audiofreak or speakerman;) about setting me straight in our little exchange:).

Thanks, Bill
Hi Billy. It sounds like you are in quite a dilemma eh? Have you checked to see what the Hsu VTF-3 MKIII would cost? I think the VTF-3 HO is on sale which would be just splendid. If push comes to shove, the Energy S12 is also another viable option. Anyways, good luck in your decision.

Cheers,

Phil

Man I love my EX and MBM! I just got a new amp to be able to drive my system louder since my NAD receiver could not go to much higher than around -14db on the volume without starting to clip. The EX and MBM just loved the higher volumes. I have only tested so far on a couple of songs. I am going to go watch Mr. Brooks for the first time now. :D

Man I love my EX and MBM! I just got a new amp to be able to drive my system louder...:D

weverb, what amp did you get? I really want to know your thoughts on how this new amp improved your set-up. When the wife is out shopping, I listen to everything at a calibrated, reference level.:D:eek::D

Larry

weverb, what amp did you get? I really want to know your thoughts on how this new amp improved your set-up. When the wife is out shopping, I listen to everything at a calibrated, reference level.:D:eek::D

Larry

Larry,

I picked up a Sherbourn 5/5210 which is 5 x 200 versus my NAD receiver was 6 x 70! I have not tried anything louder than -5db on the volume knob, but everything was as they say "loud and clear". The NAD before could only go to -15db before you could start to hear it strain and start clipping. I have not confirmed yet, but I should have gained an additional 4.5db.

^^^^^^

weverb, this sounds like a worthy improvement.:cool:

Larry

^^^^^^

weverb, this sounds like a worthy improvement.:cool:

Larry

So far, there is more punch in the chest! :D Now I just need to upgrade my cables and speaker wire. I have had to place the amp farther away than I wanted and have had to use very cheap stuff for now to get it working. Any recommendations? It is a never ending journey. :o

^^^^^^^

Hey weverb,

I get all my cables from Monoprice.com and have been very, very pleased with the specs, price, delivery and customer service. I have fairly short speaker wire runs and have been using Arista 16 gauge wire from my Onkyo 805 AVR.

I hope this helps!

Larry

Thanks Larry! I still do not know if I believe the hype about pricier cables. I just starting my research and always wind up with a headache. Copper versus silver plated copper versus pure silver, yadda yadda yadda.... I have found some reasonably priced silver plated copper interconnects and wire. I just don't know. The person who sold me the amp included a pair of Nordost Shiva power chords. These things are like $329 each retail! :eek:

It seems that you and I are the only ones on here frequently. I think we need help. :p

I second Monoprice for cables, I use them for hdmi, optical, subwoofer, cat. 5 & speaker wire.

Monoprice for me too.

Although, I run 10g to my mains and 12 for everything else.

Hi All - just got my EX. Is there a recommended break-in period, and if so, should it be done in max extension or max output mode? Thanks.

Hi All - just got my EX. Is there a recommended break-in period, and if so, should it be done in max extension or max output mode? Thanks.

Congrats--no special break-in necessary, and no matter which output setting you use. As a general matter, try both max extension and max output, and see which one you prefer. For now, I have settled on max output. Let us know how you like it--I love my EX.

Hi All - just got my EX. Is there a recommended break-in period, and if so, should it be done in max extension or max output mode? Thanks.

Hi ajstan99,

Welcome to the Outlaw Family.:)

I completely agree with jeffrey r. I have tried both ways for extended periods of 3 weeks or so and right now, I'm in Max Extension.

I will say one thing about a break-in period: Don't play Cloverfield until you have calibrated your sub. I made that mistake and I thought I broke something for sure.:eek:

Larry

Thanks for reminding me about one thing Larry. In my haste of posting, I forgot to note that in lieu of a break-in, ajstan should make sure he had calibrated his sub when integrating it into his system. Like you said, blasting Cloverfield if the sub is running too hot could do some serious damage--to lots of things...:D

I would start in max output unless you have two Outlaw subs like Larry or a MBM for mid-bass. I ran mine in max output for awhile because I got better 50-80 Hz output. When I added the MBM, I switched to max extension. Now I want more of both and will have to wear the wife down so I can add another EX and MBM. One thing that might also effect max output versus extension is placement. If it is placed nearfield, you may be able to use max extension and still have good mid-bass response. All we can do is suggest. You are going to have to play with your new toy and see what sounds best to you. Darn! You have to spend time with your new toy. :D

Guys - thanks for the warm welcome and the info. Can't wait to get back from this business trip and put the EX through its paces. I've done a basic SPL calibration, but still figuring out placement. Guess more "work" awaits at home.:-)

Now I want more of both

Hey weverb,

This really seems to afflict people who like bass.:D

Larry

Hey weverb,

This really seems to afflict people who like bass.:D

Larry

Very true. I never thought I would say I like getting kicked in the chest. :)

I was having a cup of tea this morning and saw a mouse running along the edge of the wall where my sub's located. I figured I'd better check things out and sure enough I found a small piece of gray wool like stuff so I gently flipped my LFM-2 and it looked in the port with a flashlight. It looks like the sound deadening stuff has been disturbed. I found a small piece of screen (slightly larger than the port hole) and ran duct tapped around the perimeter but the tape has reduced the round opening to a square one. I've ran a test tone to be sure the sub's working but I haven't recalibrated yet.

I'm in a basement apartment and have had a mouse problem on and off for years, the extermination eradicates them but they seem to come back in time.

Any ideas or thoughts?

Damn this down firing and ported sub. :mad:

Thanks Larry! I still do not know if I believe the hype about pricier cables. I just starting my research and always wind up with a headache. Copper versus silver plated copper versus pure silver, yadda yadda yadda.... I have found some reasonably priced silver plated copper interconnects and wire. I just don't know. The person who sold me the amp included a pair of Nordost Shiva power chords. These things are like $329 each retail! :eek:

It seems that you and I are the only ones on here frequently. I think we need help. :p

The hype about pricier cables is exactly that: hype. There is more profit in speaker wire, interconnects, and power cords than in any other area of HT/AV. People here are giving you good advice, you don't need to buy other than Monoprice.

Just think what you could do with the money you save on wires. Years ago someone took a ordinary wire (coat) hanger and attached RCAs to each end. There was no difference between a wire coat hanger and an expensive "digital coaxial' cable.

No one was willing to take the challenge by "The Amazing Randy".

I was having a cup of tea this morning and saw a mouse running along the edge of the wall where my sub's located. I figured I'd better check things out and sure enough I found a small piece of gray wool like stuff so I gently flipped my LFM-2 and it looked in the port with a flashlight. It looks like the sound deadening stuff has been disturbed. I found a small piece of screen (slightly larger than the port hole) and ran duct tapped around the perimeter but the tape has reduced the round opening to a square one. I've ran a test tone to be sure the sub's working but I haven't recalibrated yet.

I'm in a basement apartment and have had a mouse problem on and off for years, the extermination eradicates them but they seem to come back in time.

Any ideas or thoughts?

Damn this down firing and ported sub. :mad:

Maybe plug both ports and just have yourself a note on the remote or sub to remove them before playing.

The hype about pricier cables is exactly that: hype. There is more profit in speaker wire, interconnects, and power cords than in any other area of HT/AV. People here are giving you good advice, you don't need to buy other than Monoprice.

Just think what you could do with the money you save on wires. Years ago someone took a ordinary wire (coat) hanger and attached RCAs to each end. There was no difference between a wire coat hanger and an expensive "digital coaxial' cable.

No one was willing to take the challenge by "The Amazing Randy".

I am leaning towards "cheaper" cables. I am not about to spend big $$$ on them that is for sure. I have found many options so far.

Maybe plug both ports and just have yourself a note on the remote or sub to remove them before playing.

Thanks, now I need to find a large rubber stopper. Or some material a mouse wouldn't be able to get through.

BTW, luckily the LFM-2 only has one port to deal with.

Thanks, now I need to find a large rubber stopper. Or some material a mouse wouldn't be able to get through.

BTW, luckily the LFM-2 only has one port to deal with.

Call Outlaw and see if they would sell you just the port plug.

i just got my EX today i hooked it up run adyssey and i started to move the sub around the room.

https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/living.jpg


Right side of the couch - i get the thump and can feel it vibration going tru the couch however i can clearly tell where the sub is.

Left side of the couch - is like dead zone no bass no thump
Left side of the TV good bass not thump
Right side of the TV bass no thump.

am i doing something wrong here any other options i have

.... My other sub is a jbl e250p and man the upgrade was so amazing that I almost feel guilty selling the JBL; It should just be trashed :) I really didn't think I hear that much of a difference. Did I mention I really wish I could get my shipping cost back?

I have the same JBL sub right now and just placed an order for the Outlaw LFM+. I hope I'm as blwon away by the difference as you were. The funny thing is that before today I had absolutely no intentions of buying a new sub. I bought a new Denon 3808ci receiver last week and after playing around with it this weekend I loved the sound but knew that my sound system was holding it back some. Since the only thing I do in my theater is watch movies and play games, I figured that a subwoofer upgrade would give me the most immediate improvement in sound quality. I currently have JBL E80 front towers and E30 surrounds with a EC35 center and I'm sure that I'll be getting the urge to upgrade those next. Hopefully the Outlaw will help me fend off that upgrade bug for a little while longer! :)

i just got my EX today i hooked it up run adyssey and i started to move the sub around the room.

Hi nosferatu2xlc,

Ok, first things first. Audyssey can really jack around your sub. What is the trim level that Audyssey set for your sub? Make sure that it is no worse than -5dB. What are your settings on the EX?

Do you have a Radio Shack SPL Meter? You will need to calibrate your speakers to 75dB and your sub to 78dB - 80dB after running Audyssey.
Now you are ready to try different placement options.

I would try the front left corner of your room & the bottom left corner, too.

Larry

Hi nosferatu2xlc,

Ok, first things first. Audyssey can really jack around your sub. What is the trim level that Audyssey set for your sub? Make sure that it is no worse than -5dB. What are your settings on the EX?

Do you have a Radio Shack SPL Meter? You will need to calibrate your speakers to 75dB and your sub to 78dB - 80dB after running Audyssey.
Now you are ready to try different placement options.

I would try the front left corner of your room & the bottom left corner, too.

Larry

Audyssey set up the sub at -10 but i moved to -7 , but now i will move it to -5

no i don't have SPL. on the sub i have phase 0 one port plugged and sub set and max extension. also i have volume on sub set to 5.

also dunno why but i only can get the thump on the right side of my couch (it feels like i have build in sub in to my couch.) i will play with the sub tomorrow more when there is no neighbors around


ooh i also put the sub on my couch and crawl around the floor looking for good bass the only thing i noticed was left bottom corner but it was way too boome

I have the same JBL sub right now and just placed an order for the Outlaw LFM+.

Congrats, acegamer!:cool:


I figured that a subwoofer upgrade would give me the most immediate improvement in sound quality.

That is what the first LFM-1+ did for me.:)


Hopefully the Outlaw will help me fend off that upgrade bug for a little while longer! :)

You know what they say, once bit.....:D Please check back with your thoughts.

Larry

Audyssey set up the sub at -10 but i moved to -7 , but now i will move it to -5

no i don't have SPL. on the sub i have phase 0 one port plugged and sub set and max extension. also i have volume on sub set to 5.

Definitely move your trim level to -5 and your sub's volume to 3 or 4. Also, switch over to Max Output and remove the plug while you are trying to locate the sub.

I would visit RS tomorrow and purchase the Analog version of their SPL meter. This is going to be much harder to do w/o a meter.

Larry

also dunno why but i only can get the thump on the right side of my couch (it feels like i have build in sub in to my couch.) i will play with the sub tomorrow more when there is no neighbors around


ooh i also put the sub on my couch and crawl around the floor looking for good bass the only thing i noticed was left bottom corner but it was way too boome

Every room is different and moving the sub from one end of the couch to the other end can completely change the bass. I would leave the EX in the bottom left corner in Max Output mode with a calibrated reading of 78dB and see how it sounds to you.

Just remember, when we set the sub up via our ears, we tend to have the sub running too hot vs. a RS SPL meter.

Let us know what you find out tomorrow.

Larry

Every room is different and moving the sub from one end of the couch to the other end can completely change the bass. I would leave the EX in the bottom left corner in Max Output mode with a calibrated reading of 78dB and see how it sounds to you.

Just remember, when we set the sub up via our ears, we tend to have the sub running too hot vs. a RS SPL meter.

Let us know what you find out tomorrow.

Larry

I would second Larry's recommendations.

I have the same JBL sub right now and just placed an order for the Outlaw LFM+. I hope I'm as blwon away by the difference as you were. The funny thing is that before today I had absolutely no intentions of buying a new sub. I bought a new Denon 3808ci receiver last week and after playing around with it this weekend I loved the sound but knew that my sound system was holding it back some. Since the only thing I do in my theater is watch movies and play games, I figured that a subwoofer upgrade would give me the most immediate improvement in sound quality. I currently have JBL E80 front towers and E30 surrounds with a EC35 center and I'm sure that I'll be getting the urge to upgrade those next. Hopefully the Outlaw will help me fend off that upgrade bug for a little while longer! :)

Yeah, I think the LFM-1 Plus will make a very big difference. Those JBL's, while not "high end" are pretty decent speakers. They get plenty loud and can create a very good HT experience. I think once you get the sub you'll be VERY pleased with your setup :).

will this one do the job

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

i know its cheap but i can't find any listings about one on RS web

will this one do the job

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=92282

i know its cheap but i can't find any listings about one on RS web

That should work. Here is the RS version:

http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103668&cp=&sr=1&origkw=sound+meter&kw=sound+meter&parentPage=search

ok i got the RS SPL i gonna go home a play a little i also have AIVA disk , so hopefully i can come up with something batter than what i have now

^^^^^

Excellent! I have both and they are both a hugh help. Let us know what you find in your room and if you have any questions.

Larry

OK so i got home and played for about an hour or two . i used Aiva and SPL and i must say the biggest improvement i got from my front and center speakers. I tried every spot that i could put the sub , and in most cased i got no bass or really boome sound. so i settled with sub next to the couch on the left. i get good thump there when sitting next to the sub . The down side is that i clearly tell where the sub is when watching movies . here are some shots of the room. More speakers to come.....


https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/av1.jpg
https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/av2.jpg



ooo a new black rug is a must here..... soon to be.....

How big is the area again? Including the dinning and kitchen area. You may be in the same situation as I where you are going to need more than one sub to fill all of that cubic space.

How big is the area again? Including the dinning and kitchen area. You may be in the same situation as I where you are going to need more than one sub to fill all of that cubic space.

weverb, you're being a bad influence,:D but you are right!:)

I think he said his TR area is 1500 cubic feet and I'm guessing another 1500 cubic feet in the dining area and even more with the kitchen per his drawing. So, yes, he is going to need another sub or MBM eventually.

I have wall-to-wall carpeting too and I think it will help the boomyness to raise your sub up to at least 2" clearance from the driver to the top of the carpet by setting your EX on a piece of MDF and see how that sounds. If it sounds better, then you could add a Gramma.

Larry

my spl holder....https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/spl.jpg


https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/plan.jpg


so if i raise the sub should i move it to the corner where it was boome or just leave it where it is. the sub is Outlaw Plus

Ok, I have a LFM-1+, too.:)

What are your settings after calibration?

I would leave it where it is while you experiment unless you want the workout.:D

Larry

https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/plan.jpg


so if i raise the sub should i move it to the corner where it was boome or just leave it where it is. the sub is Outlaw Plus

According to the nice layout you provided, you have about the same cubic foot (assuming 8' ceiling) as I do = roughly 2,500 cubic feet. I have a single EX and actually could use 2 of them. That is a lot of space to fill/pressurize with a single Plus. In addition, depending on the rest of your system, you may not have the capacity or headroom (dB) to get the feel and sound you are looking for. I was in a similar situation and had to add a 5x200 amp to increase my overall system so I could get another 3+dB from my EX and MBM.

I would get a Gramma and move it to the opposite side of the couch.

Larry, Phil, and others...

Have you had to make any changes to your settings for 2-channel versus HT?

Found this in a HSU thread. Thought you would find it interesting.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html#anchor_13193

Larry, Phil, and others...

Have you had to make any changes to your settings for 2-channel versus HT?

I don't listen to a 2 channel source much anymore.:eek: I have played some concert HD-DVD & BR in 2 channel but use the Onkyo to matrix a 7.1 sound field. I have made no changes to my sub's settings other than using Max Output.

I think Phil will have more insight than me, sorry.:(

Larry

Found this in a HSU thread. Thought you would find it interesting.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html#anchor_13193

weverb, this is too funny. I was just reading this about 30 minutes ago!

.....107dB for my front speakers.

Larry

weverb, this is too funny. I was just reading this about 30 minutes ago!

.....107dB for my front speakers.

Larry

...110dB for my front speakers. I think nosferatu2xlc needs to see this. It might give him more of an understanding that he may not be able to obtain the feel and sound he is looking for. Before I added the Sherbourn 5x200 I was only able to get 107dB with my front speakers (according to the link).

According to the nice layout you provided, you have about the same cubic foot (assuming 8' ceiling) as I do = roughly 2,500 cubic feet. I have a single EX and actually could use 2 of them. That is a lot of space to fill/pressurize with a single Plus. In addition, depending on the rest of your system, you may not have the capacity or headroom (dB) to get the feel and sound you are looking for. I was in a similar situation and had to add a 5x200 amp to increase my overall system so I could get another 3+dB from my EX and MBM.

I would get a Gramma and move it to the opposite side of the couch.


i think i will leave it there for a wile , but in considering adding something to lift up the sub. i also shopping for new front speakers. I'm looking in to Monitor audio RS5 as the fronts and move psb as a surround. also how important is subwoofer cable.

i think i will leave it there for a wile , but in considering adding something to lift up the sub. i also shopping for new front speakers. I'm looking in to Monitor audio RS5 as the fronts and move psb as a surround. also how important is subwoofer cable.

Most people on here will recommend www.monoprice.com as a good source. I used an Impact Acoustic Sonicwave sub cables for mine.

ebay#280251318149

what you think

Most people on here will recommend www.monoprice.com as a good source. I used an Impact Acoustic Sonicwave sub cables for mine.



so no need of pure silver cables like outlaw recommends

ebay#280251318149

what you think

Did your sub not come with those? If not, call Outlaw.

it did but they are taller. for now i put the little round discs under the spikes and my sub is 1.5' above carpet

im running in to a problem , my sub is set to auto but does not kick

im running in to a problem , my sub is set to auto but does not kick

What do you mean "kick"?

kick in , turn on

kick in , turn on

Check...

1. Green status light on the back
2. Connections
3. Try a different sub cable
4. Volume high enough (I know stupid comment)
5. Outlet did not trip breaker

Check...

1. Green status light on the back
2. Connections
3. Try a different sub cable
4. Volume high enough (I know stupid comment)
5. Outlet did not trip breaker



thank you ill look in to it when i get home.

Outlaw has dropped their 8" LFM-2 sub. :( They seem to have a few in stock for their combo package of the bookshelf speaker and a LFM-2, but that's it for the LFM-2 as a stand alone purchase. Too bad because I like to recommend it for folks looking for a small sub in a 2.1 system.

Hsu is still in the 8" compact sub business, but they aren't as classy as the Outlaw was. :rolleyes:

so here i am again.
i rechecked my subwoofer positions tru out my room again.
Now I'm not sure what kind of bass to expect. This is my first true subwoofer.

https://home.comcast.net/~nosferatu2xlc/living.jpg

Yesterday i settled with subwoofer to the right of my couch, in this location i get most of the low frequencies bass that i can feel moving tru my couch. All the sound effects and explosions sound it feels really nice , however the sub does not blend with the speakers.

The second location to consider is upper left corner and left side of my TV stand. The sub blend in with the bookshelf speakers and get more upper bass and some low frequencies but defiantly not a thump effect like i get next to my couch.
At both of the sub location i get lots of bass in my dinning room regardless where the su b is.


I'm still trying to figure out which place fits the best I'm my room.
I also have a question not sure if that's possible. i have SLP meter , if i do 80-20Hz sweep with my spl meter in main listening position at 80dB at both locations of the sub. The location that has the less irregular dB drops ,will that mean that that location reproduce 80-20 dB range the best ?

Here is where I get to show my noob-ness in this field....

I think you are going to have to compromise. Do you want feel with localization, or better sound quality with less feel. I think this is where multiple subs will help you obtain both. You have a very difficult room (like I) to fill and it is by no means the ideal HT room. Look at all the DTS, THX, etc. layouts and none of them show a one sided rectangle set-up.

As for your question about response (80-20Hz), I believe the answer to be yes.

:o

I have a similar set-up and I am not saying do what I do, but my example may help you. Check out page 7 of this thread. You can see I set an EX in a corner to get the most help with the low frequencies. I then added a MBM-12 nearfield to give that mid-bass kick in the chest. This may be the path for you. I know my room could be better. I am leaning towards adding a second EX and MBM (4 subs total). When I do that, I will switch the MBM's to the front to blend with the towers and move the EX's on either side of the couch. This should give me the same results you are looking for. Well blended bass (mid and low) with a lot of kick. :D

It may be worth your while to post your situation in the HSU thread (mention you have a VTF2-MK3 instead of the Plus) and see what help Pete can be. He helped me with my set-up.

i was also gonna ask does it matter which way does the sub face. Usually you got the cables and amp facing the wall , will it matter is i turn sub 90 or 180 degrees and have ports closer to me or closer to the wall

i was also gonna ask does it matter which way does the sub face. Usually you got the cables and amp facing the wall , will it matter is i turn sub 90 or 180 degrees and have ports closer to me or closer to the wall

I suggest trying it and also play the phase, When I have my 3 3 behind the couch I find changing the phase provides a little higher SPL and definately tighter bass. Not change when 3 3 is up front.

With the 3 3 behind the couch (3 3 is side firing) and the driver is facing the couch it is too much vibrations so I rotated the driver to face the wall. Now I get the couch vibrations when I play it loud.

A Gramma may help with sub behind couch too.

Check...

1. Green status light on the back
2. Connections
3. Try a different sub cable
4. Volume high enough (I know stupid comment)
5. Outlet did not trip breaker

I'm going to add that weverb's comment on #4 is very valid. The sub will not turn on if the trim level on your AVR is set way too low and/or the source that you are using isn't playing bass heavy material. FWIW, I would leave it in the "ON" position at all times. I checked the energy usage with a Kill-a-Watt meter and found no difference between "ON", "OFF" & "AUTO".

Larry

Here is where I get to show my noob-ness in this field....

weverb, you are not a noob.:)


As for your question about response (80-20Hz), I believe the answer to be yes.:o

I agree. After applying PEQ and double checking SPL readings from 20 to 120Hz, I have a fairly smooth FR of +/- 3dB. So, yes, he should try running test tones and record SPL readings at his two positions. You really want to look for and eliminate big drops in SPL.

I know my room could be better. I am leaning towards adding a second EX and MBM (4 subs total).:D

:eek::eek::eek:, That is our problem, weverb, both of us think that our rooms can be better.:) If I remember correctly, your wife wants a larger home first...that is going to be a big upgrade to be able to order more sub-woofage.:D

It may be worth your while to post your situation in the HSU thread (mention you have a VTF2-MK3 instead of the Plus) and see what help Pete can be. He helped me with my set-up.

I second this! I have learned quite a bit from the HSU thread here at at their web-site.

Larry

I agree. After applying PEQ and double checking SPL readings from 20 to 120Hz, I have a fairly smooth FR of +/- 3dB. So, yes, he should try running test tones and record SPL readings at his two positions. You really want to look for and eliminate big drops in SPL.


Larry

I just found I have a big hole (-8dB) from 60Hz-90Hz, I've tried moving my LFM-2 around a bit (I limited in this regard). Is there any thing as far as placement that would cause problems in this range?

^^^

Hi Joe741,

From what I just went through with my room and gathering data to do a PEQ, moving the sub is the best thing to improve or eliminate a drop. I had to move both of my subs behind the LP to eliminate a -9dB drop.

Larry

Hi All - FWIW, here are my initial (somewhat rambling) thoughts on the LFM-1 EX, which I would expect to change as I tweak further. Comments, recommendations, and/or questions are welcome.

I've had a chance to play with the EX for a couple of nights now, and I'm not quite sure what I think yet. I was expecting that the EX would be noticeably better across all types of listening, but was very surprised to see how well the BIC was able to keep up at my typical listening volumes. When the sound gets louder, though, the EX really shines.

With Batman Begins and Transformers, the EX was louder/deeper/fuller and put distinguishable sound into the room, unlike the BIC which rumbled and shook the walls.

With music, the kick drum and bass were distinct and the bass line was very musical.

I initially placed the EX where the BIC is in the picture, but seem to get much better sound/thump, when I move it towards the wall and give it a long open area in front. Being so far away and so powerful, the sound is localizable, even with a 60Hz crossover. As big as the room is, my placement options along the front wall are more limited than I thought - man, this thing is big.

Wife and daughter both feel the difference and thump in the chest (I just hear deeper notes/sounds), but the main benefit I hear is that the sound is now 3-D and in the middle of the room with me, not 2-D and stuck near the walls.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/HTLayout01.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/HTPhoto01.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/HTPhoto02.jpg

Max output mode is way too boomy and distracting, so for now I'm sticking with max extension. In both cases, the BIC gave a much flatter response on the frequency sweeps from 30Hz-80Hz.

BTW, since these pictures were taken, I have moved the front towers forward so they are slightly closer to the listener than the TV stand. The soundstage and clarity are much improved.

Finally, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to treat the room and invest in EQ to get my money's worth out of the EX.

Hi ajstan99,

What a nice looking room you have!

Larry

I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to treat the room and invest in EQ to get my money's worth out of the EX.

This will really help. I just did it and it makes a big difference.

Larry

Finally, I'm pretty sure I'm going to have to treat the room and invest in EQ to get my money's worth out of the EX.

Before you go and spend money on an external eq you need to find the best position for your subs and remove as much of the dips or nulls you can. Typically external eqs do not do a very good doing this, they are good for flattening peaks though. Although this can be resolved with speaker placement.

Get a RS SPL and take measurements, move, measure, more and repeat.

You will be pleased, I have a teriible room acoustically and after many hours experimenting with sub placement I am very pleased and the sound is much improved.

weverb, you are not a noob.:)

:eek::eek::eek:, That is our problem, weverb, both of us think that our rooms can be better.:) If I remember correctly, your wife wants a larger home first...that is going to be a big upgrade to be able to order more sub-woofage.:D


Thanks Larry. And yes, she wants a bigger house but with the economy so unstable, we know we are safe where we are. :D We are even more safe with added woofage!

Hi ajstan99,
What a nice looking room you have!

This will really help. I just did it and it makes a big difference.
Larry
Thanks, Larry. We tried to keep it kid friendly (meaning nothing too expensive) but still nice enough to have grown-ups over. I'm looking to paint the walls a darker color in the near future to help with contrast on the projector.

Also, regarding EQ and room treatments, did you go with a BFD or something else?

Before you go and spend money on an external eq you need to find the best position for your subs and remove as much of the dips or nulls you can. Typically external eqs do not do a very good doing this, they are good for flattening peaks though. Although this can be resolved with speaker placement.

Get a RS SPL and take measurements, move, measure, more and repeat.

You will be pleased, I have a teriible room acoustically and after many hours experimenting with sub placement I am very pleased and the sound is much improved.
thsmith - thanks for the feedback. As you see from my pics, I'm somewhat limited to a 5' space between the left front tower and the media rack, but I'll definitely try to get things as even as possible for "free" before I open the wallet again.

I think that I'm having more issues now since the additional output of the EX is causing more reflections and interactions within the room whereas the sound waves from the less powerful BIC would tend to dissipate before they could collide and affect each other.

i was also gonna ask does it matter which way does the sub face. Usually you got the cables and amp facing the wall , will it matter is i turn sub 90 or 180 degrees and have ports closer to me or closer to the wall
Give it a try, nosferatu2xlc. In my room, I was able to get a flatter response by turning the sub lengthwise along the wall. I plugged the port closest to the wall, and with the exception of a brief 4dB dip aroundt 52-50Hz, and a monster peak (8-10dB+!) from 42-32Hz, I am relatively flat from 80Hz through 20Hz (Avia's frequency sweep tone doesn't go any lower). Haven't tried plugging the other port yet, but will let you know when I do.

Unfortunately, my mains are all over the place. If I hold the SPL meter up against the grill, they're flat, but from any distance away from the speaker, the needle really bounces around.

Does anyone know if either one of these issues is something for which a receiver with Audyssey can compensate?

Also, regarding EQ and room treatments, did you go with a BFD or something else?

Hi ajstan99,

Yes, I used a BFD with the REW software. Once you eliminate the nulls, this package really helps taming the peaks.

Larry

Does anyone know if either one of these issues is something for which a receiver with Audyssey can compensate?

Hi again,

I have an Onkyo 805 AVR with Audyssey and it helped me in my room.
I use the BFD & REW to EQ out to 200Hz and then let Audyssey do it's thing from there.

I like the way my system sounds in my room with Audyssey ON vs. OFF and the graphs from the REQ software seem to support my subjective testing.

Larry

Larry,

From our posts that got lost, here is my intial testing graph. It looks like I have the MBM set way to high. These do have the RS meter adjustments added.

Here's my graph using a digital RS SPL meter and the RealTraps test tones. I'm thinking of trying a couple of bass traps in the front corners.

Larry,

From our posts that got lost, here is my intial testing graph. It looks like I have the MBM set way to high. These do have the RS meter adjustments added.

Hi weverb,

WOW, the forum lost a bunch of posts.:eek::eek:

Yes, it looks like you love mid-bass and your MBM.:) Was your Target Level 75dB? This really looks like a very good graph to me. The MBM along with the EX is a different animal to what I have been working on. I wonder what Pete from Hsu would say about this graph and what he would recommend to do short of EQ.

Thanks for posting this and please chime back in with what you end up doing.

Larry

Here's my graph using a digital RS SPL meter and the RealTraps test tones. I'm thinking of trying a couple of bass traps in the front corners.

Hi Joe741,

I had a similar "hole" in my set-up and was lucky with being able to move my LFM-1+ around to eliminate it. I am very interested in how the bass traps help your set-up. Please let all of us know how it works out.

Larry

Hi weverb,

WOW, the forum lost a bunch of posts.:eek::eek:

Yes, it looks like you love mid-bass and your MBM.:) Was your Target Level 75dB? This really looks like a very good graph to me. The MBM along with the EX is a different animal to what I have been working on. I wonder what Pete from Hsu would say about this graph and what he would recommend to do short of EQ.

Thanks for posting this and please chime back in with what you end up doing.

Larry

Larry,

Yes, my target was 75dB. I do love me some mid-bass! :D I will start turning it down, but hope the value at 80Hz does not move. I tried moving my crossover on the EX down to 40Hz, but it did not change the values between 40 - 60 Hz.

Made some adjustments to the MBM. If I turn it down any more, the 80 and 100 Hz readings start to fall very quickly. Which is strange due to the fact my receiver xo is set to 80 Hz.

Looking better, weverb....

Does changing from ME to MO on the EX help at all? Also, does Phase to 180 or 0 change the results? The area is definitely "EQ'able". But, if you like it, keep it!:D

Larry

Looking better, weverb....

Does changing from ME to MO on the EX help at all? Also, does Phase to 180 or 0 change the results? The area is definitely "EQ'able". But, if you like it, keep it!:D

Larry

I have not tried any of those suggestions yet. I would think by switching to MO my low end would just drop out. Maybe? I do have the MBM set to 0.

weverb, I go back and forth on MO & ME settings. The REW graphs really support MO in my room and that is what I have both subs set to. The placement of the subs eliminated all the depressions at the LP and I still maintain "decent" SPL readings in the 15 - 20Hz region.

I am working on a "House Curve" right now...:rolleyes: It never ends.:D

Larry

Well Larry,

What do you think is better? I just changed the phases on the EX and MBM. To add, I just listened to the Eagles "Hotel California" from the "Hell Freezes Over" album and it sounded very smooth. The MBM was not localized at all. There was not as much kick in the chest, but everything sounded very even.

Looking at the curve some more, I can probably turn the MBM down a little more and still have the 80 -100 Hz range not drop bellow 75dB and maybe bring that spike at 63Hz down a little.

For some reason, I disagree with the +11.5 adjustment for the 16Hz measurement. When testing it did not seem loud. Do you think I can turn up the EX a little to help that 25Hz dip?

Well Larry,

What do you think is better? I just changed the phases on the EX and MBM. To add, I just listened to the Eagles "Hotel California" from the "Hell Freezes Over" album and it sounded very smooth. The MBM was not localized at all. There was not as much kick in the chest, but everything sounded very even.

I like this graph and it seems your subjective test confirms it. The other nice thing about PEQ is that you could have one filter set-up for music and another set-up for movies (slam).

Larry

Looking at the curve some more, I can probably turn the MBM down a little more and still have the 80 -100 Hz range not drop bellow 75dB and maybe bring that spike at 63Hz down a little.

For some reason, I disagree with the +11.5 adjustment for the 16Hz measurement. When testing it did not seem loud. Do you think I can turn up the EX a little to help that 25Hz dip?

weverb, I would turn up the EX and see what happens at 25Hz...it might plunge it further down, though. I have seen that happen in my room at certain FQ.

Also, what does your graph look like with the EX only? MBM only? I would assume the dip is from the EX and the spike is from the MBM.

Larry

I just listened to the Eagles "Hotel California" from the "Hell Freezes Over" album and it sounded very smooth.

BTW, one of my absolute favorite albums (dating myself:eek:) of all time, "Hotel California". I am not sure if you have a HD-DVD player, if you do, get your hands on the Eagles Farewell I Tour from Melbourne. The PQ & SQ on "Hotel California" is awesome... This song is in my top five "Song Demos" for our theater room.

Larry

weverb, I would turn up the EX and see what happens at 63Hz...it might plunge it further down, though. I have seen that happen in my room at certain FQ.

Also, what does your graph look like with the EX only? MBM only? I would assume the dip is from the EX and the spike is from the MBM.

Larry

The EX is not playing anything above 40Hz. Well, at least I have the xo set to 40hz. It maybe a slow cutoff. The 63Hz should be from the MBM. Your assumptions are correct.

BTW, one of my absolute favorite albums (dating myself:eek:) of all time, "Hotel California". I am not sure if you have a HD-DVD player, if you do, get your hands on the Eagles Farewell I Tour from Melbourne. The PQ & SQ on "Hotel California" is awesome... This song is in my top five "Song Demos" for our theater room.

Larry

I am looking into getting an Oppo DVD/CD player for SACD capabilities. I am still holding off on the blueray player until things settle some more. Also, you are not dating yourself. I have just recently come to like the Eagles and I am only 35.

The EX is not playing anything above 40Hz. Well, at least I have the xo set to 40hz. It maybe a slow cutoff. The 63Hz should be from the MBM. Your assumptions are correct.

:o A little slow tonight, I am...I meant to type 25Hz.:o

Larry

BTW, one of my absolute favorite albums (dating myself:eek:) of all time, "Hotel California". I am not sure if you have a HD-DVD player, if you do, get your hands on the Eagles Farewell I Tour from Melbourne. The PQ & SQ on "Hotel California" is awesome... This song is in my top five "Song Demos" for our theater room.

Larry

+1 on this! I use the Eagles HD-DVD (being careful to select the DTS 5.1 Surround audio track) as a demo for my theatre. I just put in a pair of LFM-1 EX subs which, along with my Buttkickers, sound great and feel great. Blows 'em away every time.

I just put in a pair of LFM-1 EX subs which, along with my Buttkickers, sound great and feel great. Blows 'em away every time.

LeBon, you are a lucky, lucky man.:D:D

Larry

LeBon, you are a lucky, lucky man.:D:D

Larry

I concur! :D We want to see pix. ;)

I concur! :D We want to see pix. ;)

Here are some pix. Sorry about the poor quality.

^^^

Very nice, LeBon.:cool:

The boys look right at home!:D

Larry

Very nice LeBon! :eek:

Larry,

Can you please explain the difference and how one could tell a dip versus a null.

Larry,

Can you please explain the difference and how one could tell a dip versus a null.

Hi weverb,

They mean the same thing to me...just semantics. When there is a major dip in your graph it is due to a null at your listening position. AFAIK, when you factor in your room and where the sub(s) is/are and where your LP is, the bass has disappeared completely. I think we all agree that at the dead center of a square room, the bass would be non-existent (null).

I guess a null would be a complete loss of bass and a dip is a "slight" loss of bass. To me, a null would require a significant movement of LP, sub or both and a dip would require a subtle movement or, possibly, a small boost in EQ.

In my room, I had a 18dB drop at 55Hz until I moved both LFM-1+ subs behind my LP. Now, I have nothing but peaks in my room.

I hope this helps! How are things coming along in your room?

Larry

Thanks Larry for the input. The question was asked if the "dip" at 25Hz was a dip or a null. From the graph, it does not drop more than 5 dB from the targeted 75 dB. So I am guessing it is a dip that can be EQ'ed. From your explanation, I do not see anything that falls off more than that.

As for the room, I have not made any more adjustments to the subs. Yesterday I just remeasured the distances from my mains/center to the LP and increased it to 9' in the receiver. In addition, the day before I spent some time installing my new interconnects that were delivered. It seems that both had a huge improvement to sound quality and widened the sound stage. I just mostly spent time yesterday listening to the new adjustments. Everything just sounded so smooth and well balanced. It was just nice to sit and listen and not worry about taking measurements or have to make adjustments. As for both of us, the journey to improve is never ending.

FYI, Outlaw Audio sent an e-mail out today to offer a subwoofer + SMS-1 EQ package deals. All the details are available at their web-site.

Larry

Everything just sounded so smooth and well balanced.

This is by far the most important test to run.:)

As for both of us, the journey to improve is never ending.

Absolutely right, weverb.:cool:

This will only end when I'm six feet under or blowin' in the wind.:D

Larry

This will only end when I'm six feet under or blowin' in the wind.:D

Or our speakers/room is blowin' in the wind!

Now that things are getting flatter, I most definitely have to add another MBM and EX. I have not tried turning up the EX or down the MBM. I am just worried that measurement for 16Hz may get out of hand.

Well I just joined the club. I was going to build build my own but the deal on the SMS-1 and the LFM-1 plus seemed pretty good so I pulled the trigger last night.

I was (am) a little worried that a ported sub would be a little sloppy for music but I am hoping that with the Help of the SMS I can get things tied in nicely.

Now that things are getting flatter, I most definitely have to add another MBM and EX. I have not tried turning up the EX or down the MBM. I am just worried that measurement for 16Hz may get out of hand.

Hey weverb,

I was really curious if this was going to happen to you. I completely agree with your comments. After I had EQ'ed my room, I lamented to my Wife that I needed at least (2) MBMs or (2) LFM-1EXs to add to the room. Along came the free shipping deal at the end of July and SHE ordered the (2) EXs for my birthday!:eek::D:eek::cool::D:)

I didn't have the heart to tell her that I was leaning towards the (2) MBMs:o and I figured I would listen to how the 4 subs played together and then decide if I should sell both of the LFM-1+ subs and add the MBMs or just leave it alone.

The four subs are a time consuming chore to find the ideal placement and EQ properly. It took me a solid weekend to finish the job. This room really sounds good and I believe you will appreciate another MBM and EX in your room as well.

Sorry weverb, I continue to be a bad influence.:D

Larry

Or our speakers/room is blowin' in the wind!

:):D:) Hilarious!!!!

Well I just joined the club. I was going to build build my own but the deal on the SMS-1 and the LFM-1 plus seemed pretty good so I pulled the trigger last night.

I was (am) a little worried that a ported sub would be a little sloppy for music but I am hoping that with the Help of the SMS I can get things tied in nicely.

Hello Will-san,

Congrats on your purchase! I am more of a movie guy vs. music but I watch a number of Blu-ray concert titles and it sounds lovely to me. Please check back in with your comments and some pix. I am interested in your thoughts on the SMS-1.

Larry

I will post pix and thoughts as soon as I receive my sub and get it tied in.

I have been reading this thread (I am almost done) and there is some good stuff... I am down right giddy.

After I had EQ'ed my room, I lamented to my Wife that I needed at least (2) MBMs or (2) LFM-1EXs to add to the room. Along came the free shipping deal at the end of July and SHE ordered the (2) EXs for my birthday!:eek::D:eek::cool::D:)

The four subs are a time consuming chore to find the ideal placement and EQ properly. It took me a solid weekend to finish the job. This room really sounds good and I believe you will appreciate another MBM and EX in your room as well.

Sorry weverb, I continue to be a bad influence.:D

Larry

You sorry son of a.......! Lucky, lucky man! :eek: Here I thought you just had the 2 pluses. You have to post pix!

Well, I need your help some more. I think I have been using the wrong correction values for the RS 4050 meter. I finally opened and used the values in the .cal file on the Shack's website (versus the link below). In addition, I also turned up the EX. Take a look at the new graph. I have the EX xo set down to 30Hz and I turned down the MBM more until the 80 and 100 Hz values flattened out. I am still getting a large boost from 40-80Hz. What am I missing?

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?htech&983682086&openflup&1&4

I am thinking of taking your last suggestion and switching back to MO and see what happens. At this point, I am getting frustrated and worried that I am just making a mess of things. When measuring the different frequencies, at 16 and 20Hz, the EX was making a thumping sound. I only have it set to about 4.5 on the volume and the receiver was at -20dB. I think it is just resonating against the desk that it is under. When I push on it, the thumping starts to go away. Ideas?

^^^

My wife...sorry, my DARLING Wife is here asking me to take her to dinner! I will have some thoughts for you later tonight, sorry!

Larry

You sorry son of a.......! Lucky, lucky man! :eek: Here I thought you just had the 2 pluses. You have to post pix!

I know...I am very lucky and I can see why you love your EX. I will take some pix on Sunday.


I finally opened and used the values in the .cal file on the Shack's website (versus the link below). In addition, I also turned up the EX. Take a look at the new graph. I have the EX xo set down to 30Hz and I turned down the MBM more until the 80 and 100 Hz values flattened out. I am still getting a large boost from 40-80Hz. What am I missing?

weverb, I agree that HT Shack would be a better choice for the cal file. With an EQ, you could easily tame this peak to your liking. I am not sure about the xovers settings with your set-up and would defer to Pete Hsu for some advice.


I am thinking of taking your last suggestion and switching back to MO and see what happens.

Since I have added the EXs, I have switched to MO and really enjoy it.


the EX was making a thumping sound. I only have it set to about 4.5 on the volume and the receiver was at -20dB. I think it is just resonating against the desk that it is under. When I push on it, the thumping starts to go away. Ideas?

Yes, I agree about the desk. When I play a 20Hz test tone, one of my walls vibrates like mad. Also, the sub trim level of -20dB seems very, very low to me. I have mine set for -3dB. The 4.5 on the volume control of the sub is where I have both of my EXs set at.

Ok, here are some suggestions and where I would begin:

Set the receiver's sub trim level to -5dB.

I would use the receiver's test tones to calibrate the EX (w/ MBM off) to 78dB - 80dB. Repeat with the MBM (w/ EX off) and set it at 75 dB. Adjust with the sub & MBM volume control.

Turn off any Auto EQ from your receiver.

Run the Hsu test tones in stereo mode on your receiver.

Measure just your sub + MBM output. Leave your front speakers off.

weverb, your graph is not bad and just needs a bit of EQ to tame the peaks. After all, it is the mid-base that you really like.

I hope this helps and keep at it.

Larry

Yes, I agree about the desk. When I play at 20Hz test tone, one of my walls vibrates like mad. Also, the sub trim level of -20dB seems very, very low to me. I have mine set for -3dB. The 4.5 on the volume control of the sub is where I have both of my EXs set at.

Ok, here are some suggestions and where I would begin:

Set the receiver's sub trim level to -5dB.

I would use the receiver's test tones to calibrate the EX (w/ MBM off) to 78dB - 80dB. Repeat with the MBM (w/ EX off) and set it at 75 dB. Adjust with the sub & MBM volume control.

Turn off any Auto EQ from your receiver.

Run the Hsu test tones in stereo mode on your receiver.

Measure just your sub + MBM output. Leave your front speakers off.

weverb, your graph is not bad and just needs a bit of EQ to tame the peaks. After all, it is the mid-base that you really like.

I hope this helps and keep at it.

Larry

Let me clarify. The -20dB is the volume setting and not the sub level setting. The sub level setting is at 0dB. My receiver (NAD T754) has no AutoEQ.

What kind of reading do you get for 16Hz since you are in MO?

Larry,

Dumb question.... do you add or subtract the values in the .cal file from the RS meter readings. I see in the file it has negative numbers, but in the spreadsheet they provide it is adding them. WTF? :confused:

weverb:

I think the negative numbers indicate the meter is down by that amount.

weverb:

I think the negative numbers indicate the meter is down by that amount.

Ok, so that means to add them. Well, that changes the whole lower frequency portion of the graph! Thanks you.

Let me clarify. The -20dB is the volume setting and not the sub level setting. The sub level setting is at 0dB. My receiver (NAD T754) has no AutoEQ.

What kind of reading do you get for 16Hz since you are in MO?

Ok, that makes more sense...I have my MV at -20dB (Onkyo 805) when I play the Rives Audio Test CD 2. This gives me a reading of 75dB on the RS meter when playing the 1000Hz test tone.

On MO with the (2) LFM-1+ subs I have 72dB @ 16Hz right behind the couch and with various corner loading placements, I have 80-88dB @ 16Hz. Now adding in the (2) EX subs, I have between 86 - 94dB @ 16Hz.

Larry

Ok, so that means to add them. Well, that changes the whole lower frequency portion of the graph! Thanks you.

Hi weverb, I made the same mistake when I first started.:o I should have remembered to mention that to you!:eek:

So, how does the lower end look now?

Larry

Hi weverb, I made the same mistake when I first started.:o I should have remembered to mention that to you!:eek:

So, how does the lower end look now?

Larry

Last night I quickly lowered it back down to my original setting of 3.5 on the volume knob. I still have my original numbers written down, but I want to remeasure and possibly bump it up a little to raise that dip at 25Hz up a tad.

Remeasured. I will wait until next week to try messing with MO versus ME. Any other suggestions?

Remeasured. I will wait until next week to try messing with MO versus ME. Any other suggestions?

Hi weverb, the small dip around the 22 - 36Hz region would benefit from a slight change of placement on the EX...possibly just rotating the EX 90 degrees if the space beneath the desk allows for it or try rotating 180 degrees....if that passes the WAF test.:confused:

If you are going the EQ route, then a small 2-3 dB boost in that region should do the trick. In the meantime, I would try and calibrate the EX to run hot at a minimum of 78dB to a max of 82dB. I would leave the MBM alone with a 75dB calibration. Also, play with MO & ME switch and the phase switch at these new settings.

Just for fun:D you could trade places with the EX & MBM and see what happens to your graph.:eek: That should raise the low end at the LP and you might not lose much of the peak from the MBM's new home under the desk.

It is all good, weverb...see how it sounds this week and we will go from there.

Have a Great Weekend!:)

Larry

Pix of my new LFM-1 EX and HSU MBM-12:

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/2148/homesetup01mi4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/73/homesetup02mh8.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Hi weverb,

I hope you don't mind but I thought a re-post of your pix would help everyone remember what your room looks like...

Larry

No problem on the pix. Thanks for doing it.

Hi weverb, the small dip around the 22 - 36Hz region would benefit from a slight change of placement on the EX...possibly just rotating the EX 90 degrees if the space beneath the desk allows for it or try rotating 180 degrees....if that passes the WAF test.:confused:

If you are going the EQ route, then a small 2-3 dB boost in that region should do the trick. In the meantime, I would try and calibrate the EX to run hot at a minimum of 78dB to a max of 82dB. I would leave the MBM alone with a 75dB calibration. Also, play with MO & ME switch and the phase switch at these new settings.

Just for fun:D you could trade places with the EX & MBM and see what happens to your graph.:eek: That should raise the low end at the LP and you might not lose much of the peak from the MBM's new home under the desk.

I don't think I can possibly rotate the EX. If I do 180, then the amp would be facing out along with the cords/cables.

I have not tried the receiver's test tone in awhile to see what the EX is running. I will give it a check. I agree about the MBM settings. They seem perfect when you look at the 80 and 100Hz readings. Any time I start messing with the MBM, they start changing.

Right now, the set-up has great bass imaging (if that is possible). There is no localization of any of the subs when playing music. The bass actually seems to be coming from behind the tv (center stage) when listening to music. I have been thinking along the same lines as you mentioned about switching the MBM and EX. It does sound tempting.

^^^

That is why I had to find the pix of your room...I couldn't remember how tight the space was under the desk. No rotating the EX!

Your ears are the best judge, weverb. If it sounds good, it's good! I would like to know how the graph changes with the switching of the MBM & EX and how that change sounds to your ears.

Larry

Long term, I was thinking of having one MBM under the desk and the other on the opposite side of the front speaker. One of the EX's would be in the corner where the MBM is now, and the second would be on the opposite side of the couch.

I did see some interesting results by bori where he doubled up his 3.3's in one corner and got great results. It makes me wonder how two EX's would sound in the corner by the round table (next to couch).

Any how, right now I have to wait for during the week to move things when there are no kids or WAF. ;) I was also looking at maybe running REW from my desktop with some 50' rca's to the listening position. That may reach.

I forgot to mention, sitting on top of that desk is the 85lb. Sherbourn amp! The desk is not easy to move. :D

Anyone have a spare $549? Outlaw has an EX in b-stock. :(

I was also looking at maybe running REW from my desktop with some 50' rca's to the listening position. That may reach.

$7.74 @ monoprice.com

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023601&p_id=2982&seq=1&format=2

When you get you next EX & MBM, you will need REW for sure.

weverb, you might as well get started learning how to use the software!

Larry

I forgot to mention, sitting on top of that desk is the 85lb. Sherbourn amp! The desk is not easy to move. :D

I was wondering where you put that beast.:D

All - I have to confess that I had been somewhat underwhelmed by the improvement that the EX gave me over the BIC H-100 in my 4,200 ft^3 room. It was apparent that the EX was louder and I was able to hear bass notes more clearly, but unless I turned up my system to a level that was higher than I typically listen to it, in many cases there was little noticeable improvement. Tried moving the sub along the front and side walls to no avail.

Well, I'm happy to say that three changes have made a world of difference - 1) changing to maximum output mode, 2) changing the crossover on the receiver from 60Hz to 80Hz, and 3) getting an Auralex Gramma.

Even though my HT is in a basement with berber carpet over concrete, the bass is so much cleaner and pronounced with the Gramma - possibly due to the extra clearance. Also, there is now far less rattling of the room, not to mention, I now get fuller bass at lower volumes.

At last, I have the improvement I was looking for and wanted to share in case anyone else out there was having similar issues. I think that there was a poster a few weeks ago (nosferatu maybe?) who couldn't get much out of his EX either. I would strongly recommend trying the Gramma - it's only $50 shipped and IMO worth a shot.

I think I'll enjoy this major improvement for a while before another bout of optimizing sub placement, treating my room, and adding EQ.

ajstan99,

Glad to hear things have improved to your liking. As you can tell, I have had mine for awhile and I am still learning how to make it work better. As Larry and I swap back and forth, it is a never ending process of playing and enjoying.

$7.74 @ monoprice.com

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236&cs_id=1023601&p_id=2982&seq=1&format=2

When you get you next EX & MBM, you will need REW for sure.

weverb, you might as well get started learning how to use the software!

Larry

That's what I was looking at. The other thing is, I cannot tell what is in versus out on the back of the sound card. It just has some different colors and similar symbols.

That's what I was looking at. The other thing is, I cannot tell what is in versus out on the back of the sound card. It just has some different colors and similar symbols.

Hey weverb,

On my sound card, blue is IN & green is OUT....

I am just finishing up with two days of tweaks.:eek::eek: I will post pix & REW graph of the four subs tomorrow.

Larry

Hey weverb,

On my sound card, blue is IN & green is OUT....

I am just finishing up with two days of tweaks.:eek::eek: I will post pix & REW graph of the four subs tomorrow.

Larry

:p Lucky man!

I feel like a complete nooby/idiot. Here is a pic of the back of my sound card. Will this work for REW? It says it is a SigmaTel High Def. Audio Codec card.