Ok weverb, here are your pix...:):) (as well as lalakersfan34)

Also, just moving these two subs out to my deck reminded me how substantial the EX is vs. the Plus.:eek:

Larry

Ok weverb, here are your pix...:):)

Also, just moving these two subs out to my deck reminded me how substantial the EX is vs. the Plus.:eek:

Larry

Wow! You really can see the difference. The website is a little misleading. Those glass tops look so good. I will still keep the paper on mine though. You can't see the top any way.

Thanks for all the work Larry!

I have an Onkyo SR606 with similar settings. There's no need to attenuate the LFE channel unless you're getting noise/hum.

According to Dolby, LFE is 120Hz and below:

http://www.dolby.com/uploadedFiles/English_(US)/Professional/Technical_Library/Technologies/Dolby_Digital_(AC-3)/38_LFE.pdf

If you set the low-pass frequency below 120Hz, you're potentially (and unnecessarily) filtering out some of the top-end LFE channel sound.

Hey, BTW, welcome to the thread!

I set it at 120hz. Still sounds good but not sure its better. Have to listen more. Thanks for the tip !!

I would like to give my impressions on Maximum Output (MO) vs. Maximum Extension (ME) modes on the LFM Subs::)

AFAIK, maximum output mode (Max Output on the Port Switch) will provide the greatest level of overall bass in relation to SPL. Maximum extension mode (Bass Extension on the Port Switch) will provide the deepest bass (LFE.1 channel) levels. So, when you "tune" your LFM, you must accept a "sacrifice" of lower overall SPL level (Bass Extension Mode) or you "sacrifice" deep bass frequencies (Max Output Mode). IMHO, MO mode is great for music & ME mode is awesome for high impact (LFE.1 channel) movies. YMMV:)

If you own one LFM, you must decide what works best in your room and with your choice of source material. You can change modes fairly quickly
by inserting the port plug for ME mode or removing the plug for MO mode and flipping the Port Switch. I think this will be inevitable with only one
LFM and multiple sources of material.If you own two or more LFM subs, you gain SPL regardless and if movies are your thing, ME is starting to look like the "set it and forget it" setting.

Before attempting any of the demos below, please calibrate your set-up with a RS meter to 75dB to 82dB depending how "hot" you like your sub.
Room EQ Wizard is a very handy software to help you place the sub(s) and generate PEQ filters to tame any peaks that are lurking in your room.
A Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro (BFD) is a cost effective way to tame frequencies below your crossover setting.

These demo scenes, in my set-up, show how good ME can be. This is by far the most visceral demo I have: (currently):)

"CLOVERFIELD" Blu-ray version with DD TruHD 5.1

Earthquake? Chapter 4 @ time stamp 0:18:22

Statue of Liberty. Chapter 5 @ time stamp 0:19:53 to 0:22:35

Marines. Chapter 8 @ time stamp 0:35:02 to 0:36:25

Helicopter. Chapter 14 @ time stamp 1:03:45 to 1:06:56

Under ME mode these four scenes are insane. My master volume on the AVR is set for -15dB. There is so much more sonic impact with ME vs. MO mode.

Next up is an old favorite and was #1 until the release of Cloverfield:

"MASTER AND COMMANDER" DVD version with DTS 5.1

Start with the entire chapter #3 to get the feeling of being on a ship. When the officer yells, "Beat to Quarters", the subs really kick in and it
feels/sounds like the crew is running across the ceiling of our room. This chapter is "subtle" bass before the cannons kick in.:D

Finish with the entire chapter #4 and be prepared for some sonic action as the English & French duke it out on the high seas!:eek:

For a complete list of Movies with Bass, see DrPainMD's thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=755493

Larry

Once again Larry, great stuff!

Ok weverb, here are your pix...:):) (as well as lalakersfan34)

Also, just moving these two subs out to my deck reminded me how substantial the EX is vs. the Plus.:eek:

Larry

Beautiful pics, Larry. The glass top with the tree reflections looks superb :D. And I agree that the EX is quite a bit larger than the Plus. Often times the difference in even an inch or two each way makes a very big difference to the look of two subs.

2 things Larry.

1. Thanks for those pics--very enlightening. My wife might have preferred the Plus based on the pics, but it just confirms my choice to go for the bigger/badder EX. It is large, but in our family room in the corner, the EX blends in pretty nicely.

2. I am not one who likes to keep changing things, so I basically settled on MO and left it. Now I may need to switch to ME during movies, especially the bassy ones. I convinced myself I wasn't missing much in movies using MO, but you may have nixed that. Thanks... ;)

Seriously though, good posts.

^^
Thanks for the kind words, jeffrey r.:)

Please check back with your impressions of ME mode with the EX. When I had just the LFM-1+ subs, I stayed on MO all the time. Now, with so much bass energy in the room, ME mode is amazing.:eek:

Also, music might be a bit bass heavy right now under ME but it sounds go to me and my wife. I'll set up another preset in the BFD and lower the peaks to 75 - 78dB and see how it sounds.

Larry

2. I am not one who likes to keep changing things, so I basically settled on MO and left it. Now I may need to switch to ME during movies, especially the bassy ones. I convinced myself I wasn't missing much in movies using MO, but you may have nixed that. Thanks... ;)

Jeff,

You may want to set-up REW and see the differences in the two settings. I bet you could add a BFD and have two presets. One for MO and one for ME. That way you get the best response for either option. :D

Hi PannyMann,

I think about 30 minutes or so the first time. Now, it takes me under 5 minutes to my first graph.

did you hook up directly to sub or did you run thru receiver when setting up?

^^
Hi therockscott,

I hooked the REW software up to the CD input on my AVR. You need to access the bass management settings on your receiver.

Larry

REW = Room Eq Wizard

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/11707-room-eq-wizard-rew-information-index-links-guides-articles-stickies-please-read.html

It will become your next challenge/friend! :D

Been reading the forum threads about sub eq and the materials about the REW and associated equipment requirements. In the thread "Best Eq under $400" there is a great buzz about an auto eq box made in Finland that auto eqs the peaks and valleys and also eqs long decay times.

I ordered one today. If it doesn't make as big a difference as some folks are reporting, I'm sure I'll have no problems selling it as that thread has generated a lot of enthusiasm as the reports of sq improvements continue to come in.

^^

Hey PannyMann,

Yes, The Anti-Mode 8033 is a cool device for leveling peaks. I'm not sure about the valleys. I think sub placement is your best bet. BTW, here is a discussion on The Shack from the creator of REW:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-forum/11699-testing-dspeaker-anti-mode-8033-a.html

Good luck with this new toy and stop back with your comments and impressions.:)

Larry

Been reading the forum threads about sub eq and the materials about the REW and associated equipment requirements. In the thread "Best Eq under $400" there is a great buzz about an auto eq box made in Finland that auto eqs the peaks and valleys and also eqs long decay times.

I ordered one today. If it doesn't make as big a difference as some folks are reporting, I'm sure I'll have no problems selling it as that thread has generated a lot of enthusiasm as the reports of sq improvements continue to come in.

Keep in mind you have no control with that unit. I know it has a couple of boost features for 2 different sections, but I don;t think you can control how much. One thing you will learn when reading about REW and bass eq'ing, a lot of people have to develop a "house curve" or a specific boost of the bass so that it "sounds" the same level as the higher frequencies. Don't get me wrong, the Anti-Mode is great and i almost went that direction, but you have more control over your system and its sound with a BFD type unit. Oh yea, it is cheaper too. :D

but you have more control over your system and its sound with a BFD type unit. Oh yea, it is cheaper too. :D

Agreed.:)

^^
Hi therockscott,

I hooked the REW software up to the CD input on my AVR. You need to access the bass management settings on your receiver.

Larry

I'm fairly new to the bass management game. My first thought was to order the SMS-1 but saw alot of good things about the BFD. Picked up one from local guitar center for $99. Purchased the LFM-EX 1, KEF iQ7 fronts, iQ6 center and 4 iQ1 surrounds. Running on a Pio 92TXH. When hooking up conventional thru helps files in REW, gettnig a horrific hum (ground loop). I have a sound card that has a digital output, when using config with no loopback. How are you connecting everything? Thanks in advance.

I'm fairly new to the bass management game. My first thought was to order the SMS-1 but saw alot of good things about the BFD. Picked up one from local guitar center for $99. Purchased the LFM-EX 1, KEF iQ7 fronts, iQ6 center and 4 iQ1 surrounds. Running on a Pio 92TXH. When hooking up conventional thru helps files in REW, gettnig a horrific hum (ground loop). I have a sound card that has a digital output, when using config with no loopback. How are you connecting everything? Thanks in advance.

Try a cheater plug on the BFD first. That may clear things up.

^^

I am connecting everything exactly like the REW help file shows. I also have a "cheater plug" on the BFD to eliminate the dreaded hum. My sound card is not the best and it too can create a hum if the output cable is not secure in the sound card.

I hope this helps!

Larry

weverb, you are so fast!!!!!!!!

I know it has a couple of boost features for 2 different sections, but I don;t think you can control how much.

Hey weverb,

Their "boost feature" is sort of a house curve, right? I mean, the Anti-Mode 8033 is not capable of boosting a small dip like the BFD will, will it?

Larry

Hey weverb,

Their "boost feature" is sort of a house curve, right? I mean, the Anti-Mode 8033 is not capable of boosting a small dip like the BFD will, will it?

Larry

No, I believe it boost a range like 25-35Hz. No dips.

^^

I am connecting everything exactly like the REW help file shows. I also have a "cheater plug" on the BFD to eliminate the dreaded hum. My sound card is not the best and it too can create a hum if the output cable is not secure in the sound card.

I hope this helps!

Larry

Thanks. I have the BFD hooked into a Panamax 5300 right now. I will try a cheater plug tomorrow. I'm thinking its the soundcard because I get NO HUM whatsoever when the soundcard is not hooked up. I just have to do more reading. This is my 3rd home theater system that I have in my home, so I really want to try and perfect this one due to the odd shape of my room. Which midi port did u use? I see that RS also has one so I would not have to wait.

Thanks. I have the BFD hooked into a Panamax 5300 right now. I will try a cheater plug tomorrow. I'm thinking its the soundcard because I get NO HUM whatsoever when the soundcard is not hooked up. I just have to do more reading. This is my 3rd home theater system that I have in my home, so I really want to try and perfect this one due to the odd shape of my room. Which midi port did u use? I see that RS also has one so I would not have to wait.

Both Larry and I enter the info by hand. It is probably quicker than the midi by the time you make the connections and turn on the computer. :)

Both Larry and I enter the info by hand. It is probably quicker than the midi by the time you make the connections and turn on the computer. :)

I would be willing to do that. Don't mind getting my hands dirty at all. Major problem is the cabling for the initial hookup. I pm u also. Hope its okay. Thanks

Both Larry and I enter the info by hand. It is probably quicker than the midi by the time you make the connections and turn on the computer. :)

I also enter the info by hand. It only takes a minute if you're only using a few filters. I'm sure the midi connection is nice but I didn't find it necessary to bother with it.

Keep in mind you have no control with that unit. I know it has a couple of boost features for 2 different sections, but I don;t think you can control how much. One thing you will learn when reading about REW and bass eq'ing, a lot of people have to develop a "house curve" or a specific boost of the bass so that it "sounds" the same level as the higher frequencies. Don't get me wrong, the Anti-Mode is great and i almost went that direction, but you have more control over your system and its sound with a BFD type unit. Oh yea, it is cheaper too. :D

I do trust your word that EQing will probably give me optimal results. Agreed also 100% on cost and control diferential. But the learning curve is sure a lot different too (grins). The other delta is correction in the temporal domain which the BFD doesn't do.

Maybe I'm just a victum of "quick fixitis". My sub is in a corner inches from the brick ledge formed by the fireplace which is centered along one wall of my living room. My right speaker is on ly a couple of inches on the other side of the sub. I would venture a guess that this is probably a prime setup candidate of EQing of any sort given that my placement options give me no other choice.

Bear in mind also that the Mirage OMD-15 fronts have their own placement sensitivities and I twiddled with them until I got them in their current location. Bottom line on sub placement is that outside of a few inches right or left, the sub ain't goin' anywhere.

There is still time to go back to the tried and true "manual" way of doing it if reuslts are not satisfatory. The Anti Mode comes with a mic so at least I'll have that purchase out of the way. Knowing me, I may want to try the BFD later jsut cause it allows more adjustment capability albeit manual. None of the "after" response curves I saw posted with the Anti mode were as good as the one I saw posted here in thes thread so I did weigh that also.

Wow! You really can see the difference. The website is a little misleading. Those glass tops look so good. I will still keep the paper on mine though. You can't see the top any way.

Thanks for all the work Larry!

Agreed 100% on how good the glass top looks. My fronts are black Piano Gloss and the glass top goes PERFECTLY with the black high gloss finish of the mains.

^^

Hey PannyMann,

Yes, The Anti-Mode 8033 is a cool device for leveling peaks. I'm not sure about the valleys. I think sub placement is your best bet. BTW, here is a discussion on The Shack from the creator of REW:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-forum/11699-testing-dspeaker-anti-mode-8033-a.html

Good luck with this new toy and stop back with your comments and impressions.:)

Larry

Ok, I'll be sure to let you guys know of my results. Others on the board seem to be getting about 3 days shipment to the East coast so I may have it here by Friday.

To all Fellow Outlaw Owners:

Add IRON MAN to your viewing list. Very good movie along with some serious BASS!:eek::eek::eek:

Larry

To all Fellow Outlaw Owners:

Add IRON MAN to your viewing list. Very good movie along with some serious BASS!:eek::eek::eek:

Larry

How about Epik ,SVS owners? :confused: I bought this Bluray. i buy the comic ones only or big bass movies.:)

To all Fellow Outlaw Owners:

Add IRON MAN to your viewing list. Very good movie along with some serious BASS!:eek::eek::eek:

Larry

Good to hear! My Blu ray copy should be shipping from amazon shortly. Too bad it'll get here well before my Castle does :cool:. I don't think my bookshelf speakers will do justice to the LFE in Iron Man.

To all Fellow Outlaw Owners:

Add IRON MAN to your viewing list. Very good movie along with some serious BASS!:eek::eek::eek:

Larry

I had this one at the top of my Netflix que and they moved the 'available date' out a week on me. They have been excellent in past days but since they upgraded their systems, glitches seem to occur more frequently. I still like them though, they're just losing a bit of their luster for me.

Good to hear! My Blu ray copy should be shipping from amazon shortly. Too bad it'll get here well before my Castle does :cool:. I don't think my bookshelf speakers will do justice to the LFE in Iron Man.

Hi lalakersfan34,

I would save this movie or Cloverfield to christen the Castle.:D

Also, depending on your set-up, the BR seems to activate DRC.

Larry

Hi lalakersfan34,

I would save this movie or Cloverfield to christen the Castle.:D

Also, depending on your set-up, the BR seems to activate DRC.

Larry

Hey Larry,

Wow, the bass in Iron Man is as good as Cloverfield/WOTW? Those were the ones I was planning on using to break the Castle in. Out of curiosity, why would Iron Man trigger DRC? Can it change settings in your player? I would have thought that would only change if you manually did it. I'm using a PS3 BTW.

^^

Something is up on this title. I just purchased a Sony 350 to replace a Sammy 1400 BR player and I have to select an Auto DRC mode. There is no off setting on the Sony. I have selected "Wide Range...No compression works. A more dynamic sound is produced." I have DRC set to off on my 805.

I am bitstreaming via HDMI from the Sony to the Onkyo 805. When I watch Cloverfield, I set my MV to -12 to -14dB and that requires seat belts in our TR chairs.:D

Iron Man, at the same setting, sounds "soft". If I turn down the MV to -4dB, I am starting to smile again.:) I'll run the title again tonight.

Larry

^^

Something is up on this title. I just purchased a Sony 350 to replace a Sammy 1400 BR player and I have to select an Auto DRC mode. There is no off setting on the Sony. I have selected "Wide Range...No compression works. A more dynamic sound is produced." I have DRC set to off on my 805.

I am bitstreaming via HDMI from the Sony to the Onkyo 805. When I watch Cloverfield, I set my MV to -12 to -14dB and that requires seat belts in our TR chairs.:D

Iron Man, at the same setting, sounds "soft". If I turn down the MV to -4dB, I am starting to smile again.:) I'll run the title again tonight.

Larry

Some titles are just recorded a lot hotter than others. War of the Worlds is that way. I think the DTS track of WOTW at around -11 on my receiver is comparable to Star Wars Episode II at -2. I also remember Cloverfield being pretty loud. Thanks for the heads up with Iron Man. I also remember that the Transfomers HD DVD needs to be cranked to at least -5 or so on my receiver before it has the impact it should have. Both Transformers and Iron Man are Paramount films, so it's possible they are similar in that regard. It would be nice if the level at which all movies are recorded was more uniform, but as it is we're stuck changing the volume I guess.

There's a big recall on the Iron Man blu-rays, so you may have received one of the defective ones that slipped out before the recall. There are threads about it in the blu-ray software forum here. I believe the disc causes certain receivers (Onkyo??) to kick in the DRC modes. Plus, apparently, depending on how your blu-ray player is configured, Iron Man is causing players (PS3 I know of) to download content from the internet, which is sometimes causing players to stall for 10-15 minutes or so.

Some titles are just recorded a lot hotter than others. War of the Worlds is that way. I think the DTS track of WOTW at around -11 on my receiver is comparable to Star Wars Episode II at -2.

Yep, I hope that is the problem. BTW, Cloverfield is from Paramount too and I guess I had too high of expectations on Iron Man.:) I am going to re-play the movie tonight. We shall see...

There's a big recall on the Iron Man blu-rays, so you may have received one of the defective ones that slipped out before the recall.

Thanks jeffrey r.:)

It looks like I have the corrected "Blue" disc per the software forum. I'm re-thinking this BD-Live stuff.:(:(:confused::confused:

Rented Iron Man (standard). It was pretty good in the lfe department. I liked the scene coming out of the cave and when the other emerges from underground. I still like Hot Fuzz better. :)

Hi weverb, did you notice a "quieter or soft level" on the DVD?

Hi weverb, did you notice a "quieter or soft level" on the DVD?

I guess you could say it was softer. I will have to compare it to U571 (DTS), Master & Commander (DTS), and WOTW later.

Some titles are just recorded a lot hotter than others. War of the Worlds is that way. I think the DTS track of WOTW at around -11 on my receiver is comparable to Star Wars Episode II at -2. I also remember Cloverfield being pretty loud. Thanks for the heads up with Iron Man. I also remember that the Transfomers HD DVD needs to be cranked to at least -5 or so on my receiver before it has the impact it should have. Both Transformers and Iron Man are Paramount films, so it's possible they are similar in that regard. It would be nice if the level at which all movies are recorded was more uniform, but as it is we're stuck changing the volume I guess.

Hi lalakersfan34,

It appears to be the Onkyo 805's Late Night Function interaction with Iron Man [BR].

I have the Sony 350 hooked up to an Onkyo 805 via HDMI and the 805 is bitstreaming the DD TrueHD. The 805 will default the Late Night Function to Auto for the TrueHD track and bingo, soft bass output for Iron Man. Set the Late Night Function to off and WOW.:eek::eek::eek:

Here are the SPL numbers on the first Humvee Explosion at 0:02:34:

With Late Night Function: Default setting of AUTO = 98dB
With Late Night Function: OFF = 108dB

Note: above with a MV of -14dB and Re-EQ set to OFF.

Just another thing to remember, turn off LNF.:D:D

Larry

Per Larry's request here is a quick update on my Anti Mode results. I ordered it Monday and it got here Wednesday afternoon. I also posted a bit more info in the Under $400 EQ thread about this.

I hooked it up and ran the calibration and I must say the removal of boominess is indeed impressive. So far I've listened to a few selections on CD (R&B) and the bass is tight and now more punchy since I can put back a couple of DB gain that I had taken away in an attempt to address the boominess. I then watched a movie that I had been sitting and waiting before I send it back to Netflix. The explosions were IMPRESSIVE ! More punch with less 'stress'. I also noticed that there was just a much improved "presence" to the soundtrack's music, even when no LFE effects were in play. Overall I guess I'd call the sound much smoother more full.

I'll next redo Audyssey with the sub turned off to eliminate any added bass eq from my Onkyo 705. Will also try the lift modes, listen with bypass on and off, reset ME and MO modes on the subwoofer and generally fool around with it til I get the absolute best sound. So far though, its money well spent just based on improved sq just running the basic calibration sweep.

Now I'm curious about running REW just to see what effect it has had.

Thanks PannyMann for your thoughts.:)

I would get REW to "visually" see the difference and to see what the lift modes do.

Larry

Thanks PannyMann for your thoughts.:)

I would get REW to "visually" see the difference and to see what the lift modes do.

Larry

I'll probably need to lean on yu guys a bit to get set up sonce I'm still open to a Behringer. I'm really curious to know how the optimized results of each compare both measured and audibly. I just have to fingure out how to do it since I'll have more time on my hands. I can always sell one of them I'm sure.

This does answer a bisic question for me though and that's the fact that EQ CAN make a substantial difference. Back in my days of being a stereo nut, I had a 12 band eq that I believe went up to 18khz, don't remember the low end. I used it for "tonal balance". I now realise how the low end can be positivley effected way beyond a tonal perspective.

PannyMann,

Glad to hear things worked out for you. Just head over to hometheatershack.com and start a thread when you have questions or are ready to begin. :)

I am jumping into these subs, and investigating all brands I can. Having owned Outlaw equipment in the past, I know they offer good value.
With Hsu involved in their sub design, no doubt the performance is right up there also.
First of all, was the LFM-1 + intended to be an interim model until the EX was available?
For a sonic or SQ viewpoint, what is the essential difference between them (putting the Ben Franklin aside )?

I presently have a Veldoyne DLS-5000R...but a modest listening area (under 2300 cf) and film/music is about 60/40.

I got the Velo open box so saved a good deal of money on it. I like it because it is musical and puts out enough power for my area. But I want solid extension at least down to 20-22 Hz.

I notice Outlaw has a 'buy one get the 2nd product for 50% off) until midnight Monday. I was considering one of the subs + the SMS-1.
I understand the value of the SMS likely varies with a specific environment.


Any suggestions appreciated.

Hello videoaddikt,

Here is my $.02 :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14745915#post14745915

Larry

Hello videoaddikt,

Here is my $.02 :D

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14745915#post14745915

Larry

Larry, I can appreciate the huge effort you put into the room. Very impressive!

My room is 'treated' and the present speaker locations (including sub) were professionally located via the retailer (ISF/CEDIA) an analyzer, etc. with a variety of test signals. And close to 2 hrs.
In fact, when I recently had my new display calibrated by a different cal pro ( one of the best on this forum ), he was quite impressed with my setup, but said I definitely need more bass extension. His forte is professional and consumer audio, so I respect his opinion. He is the 2nd one who suggested I look at some ID subs for better value.

For the reason mentioned, I would be hesitant to relocate the the sub. not to say EQ'ing a new sub is a bad idea, on the contrary that's what I plan to do. If I can pick up the SMS for half price on the latest Outlaw promo, I am wondering if it will do an adequate job. $300 is getting close to the BD. Just a thought.
And I have not done enough reading up on the BD or SMS which I need to do also. But somehow, with my present setup, and the rather uncomplicated nature of my room, I am wondering if any EQ will be that significant.

Videoaddikt,

Out of curiosity, where did you see this "buy one get one half off" promo? Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it anywhere.

That said, with that kind of deal I think it might be worthwhile to get a pair of LFM-1 EX's and spend another $100-150 doing the whole BFD/REW thing to EQ. It's not as simple as the SMS-1, but it costs far less. Plus, running two subs can help to smooth out your in-room bass response so you might not even have to use much EQ anyway. And it will give you more headroom so the EX's could be run in max extension mode without you having to worry about them not having enough output.

Of course, a single EX and SMS-1 would work as well, but I think the added headroom and deep extension of a pair of EX's would be awesome. Just my two cents.

Videoaddikt,

Out of curiosity, where did you see this "buy one get one half off" promo? Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it anywhere.



I got the ad in an e-mail from Outlaw Audio.

I got the ad in an e-mail from Outlaw Audio.

That's where I got it.

Videoaddikt,

Out of curiosity, where did you see this "buy one get one half off" promo? Maybe I'm blind but I don't see it anywhere.

That said, with that kind of deal I think it might be worthwhile to get a pair of LFM-1 EX's and spend another $100-150 doing the whole BFD/REW thing to EQ. It's not as simple as the SMS-1, but it costs far less. Plus, running two subs can help to smooth out your in-room bass response so you might not even have to use much EQ anyway. And it will give you more headroom so the EX's could be run in max extension mode without you having to worry about them not having enough output.

Of course, a single EX and SMS-1 would work as well, but I think the added headroom and deep extension of a pair of EX's would be awesome. Just my two cents.

I would agree, but again, with a much smaller room, I don't think I would need that much gain.

videoaddict,

For under 2300cf, two Pluses would give you a good response down to 18Hz (below your required 20-22Hz) and be only about $750. :eek: In addition, you would have the benefit of two sub responses and would not be driving them too hard. This would give you good headroom for those demanding scenes. I would really ask Larry more questions about the dual Plus set-up versus a single EX.

Before thinking about eq'ing subs, I would recommend looking into REW so that you can see exactly how your room is responding. From there you can make an informed choice of which eq route to go. With the history you provided us, you may not need anything.

If you decide to pursue eq'ing the low frequencies, I would recommend the BFD over the SMS system for other reasons besides cost. Granted I have never used the SMS, but the BFD is truly much easier to use than people think and you have way more control of what it does and the results. I believe the SMS only has a fixed few frequency "sliders" that you can adjust. The BFD has a lot more frequencies, plus you can control the bandwidth and gain. If you want to get even more control, there are other options that fall between the two in price. These other devices let you do high and low pass filters which could help with very low frequency roll-off so you do not damage your subs. In addition some of these devices also let you insert shelving filters which could come in handy when you want to set-up a "house curve".

But back to your inquiry of Outlaw subs, I currently have an EX in my 2300cf room and listen to HT and music about 60/40 also. I like the EX as it gives me extension down to 16Hz (just like it specs say) and is not too boomy for music.

I really appreciate the info..I am studying the EQ options, etc. while still centering on one EX at this stage. All your experiences and suggestions are most helpful.

"With the history you provided us, you may not need anything." < That's why the REW/BFD could be a better path for me. If nothing else, more educational.

If you want to jump into the 2 +s vs. 1 fray, Larry, that's fine too. At least I am getting down to fewer viable options at this point, which is what I hoped for...

My room is 'treated' and the present speaker locations (including sub) were professionally located via the retailer (ISF/CEDIA) an analyzer, etc. with a variety of test signals. And close to 2 hrs.

Hi videoaddik,

I'll jump back in....

Your statement above leads me down a single EX path for your room.

I, too, agree with weverb's post, that REW will help determine many things for you and the BFD gives you more options. With this current offer from the Outlaws, (2) subs are really in the picture and I would consider this "better" than 1 sub + a SMS.

However, for about a grand to have (2) EX subs delivered to your door, IMHO is the best offer from the Outlaws.:)

Larry

I got the ad in an e-mail from Outlaw Audio.

In the future, this is going to be an e-mail invitation only (if I'm reading it right) and you'll need to sign up for the "Quick Draws" e-mail on Outlaw's web-site:

"Important reminder: Even if you don't want to take advantage of this incredible "Buy One, Get One for 50% Off" promotion, we encourage you to fill out the form so that you'll be on the list for our upcoming Quick Draw mailings, as the next one might be just what you're looking for. This time around we're letting every Outlaw in on the deal, but future Quick Draw promotions will only be mailed to registered "Quick Draw Outlaws."

the Anti-Mode 8033 is not capable of boosting a small dip like the BFD will, will it?

If a dip is wide enough, Anti-Mode 8033 can raise it a couple of dB. (Because narrow dips can be nulls and be uncorrectable, they are ignored.)

Hi videoaddik,

I'll jump back in....

Your statement above leads me down a single EX path for your room.


Larry

And that's what I did! I have an EX coming late this week or early next week. Ordered the 8033 too. Pretty hyped about it! :)

And that's what I did! I have an EX coming late this week or early next week. Ordered the 8033 too. Pretty hyped about it! :)

If your in Cali, you should get the EX very quickly. That's where they ship out from. :D

If your in Cali, you should get the EX very quickly. That's where they ship out from. :D

I thought I read that somewhere..
I wonder how they get around not taxing us?
It is my understanding businesses outside the state with warehouses in CA are 'required' to levy sales tax. Not that I'm complaining. :)

And that's what I did! I have an EX coming late this week or early next week. Ordered the 8033 too. Pretty hyped about it! :)

Congrats videoaddikt.:)

Please check back in with any questions or comments. BTW, I believe Outlaw ships from Carson, CA.

Larry

Congrats videoaddikt.:)

Please check back in with any questions or comments. BTW, I believe Outlaw ships from Carson, CA.

Larry

Figures Mr. Outlaw would now exactly where! :D

Congrats videoaddikt.:)

Please check back in with any questions or comments. BTW, I believe Outlaw ships from Carson, CA.

Larry

Thanks to all of you!

Figures Mr. Outlaw would now exactly where! :D

You crack me up, weverb.:D:D

I was checking Fedex every day to see where the sub was on it's tour of America.:D

And that's what I did! I have an EX coming late this week or early next week. Ordered the 8033 too. Pretty hyped about it! :)

Did you get the sub yet?

^^

He might be playing golf...wait, that was PannyMann.:D:confused::D

^^

He might be playing golf...wait, that was PannyMann.:D:confused::D

I just thought of a cheesy pun for you... Know when you say/shout "Four!" like in golf, we all know you are referring to your subs. :D

:):):):)

^^

He might be playing golf...wait, that was PannyMann.:D:confused::D

HA HA HA HA HA. Yes dog gone it, I CERTAINLY am. Played 27 yesterday and going back out tomorrow. Trying to take advantage of these mid 70's days before it gets crazy up here in NJ.

It's great walking weather so my 3 wheel "Old Man's" push cart is getting a nice workout.

Watched Iron Man last night. Had my Anti Mode's 15-25hz "lift" mode on. WHEW !!!! I thought my "Plus" was going to shake the house down and I was getting a real nice thump in the chest during the explosions. Clean bass allows me to add some more gain and still stay clean. Loving it.

I'm going to still do some REW when it gets colder out. Want to get a visual on the effects.

HA HA HA HA HA. Yes dog gone it, I CERTAINLY am. Played 27 yesterday and going back out tomorrow. Trying to take advantage of these mid 70's days before it gets crazy up here in NJ.

It's great walking weather so my 3 wheel "Old Man's" push cart is getting a nice workout.

Watched Iron Man last night. Had my Anti Mode's 15-25hz "lift" mode on. WHEW !!!! I thought my "Plus" was going to shake the house down and I was getting a real nice thump in the chest during the explosions. Clean bass allows me to add some more gain and still stay clean. Loving it.

I'm going to still do some REW when it gets colder out. Want to get a visual on the effects.

Glad to hear everything worked out for you! :D

Trying to take advantage of these mid 70's days before it gets crazy up here in NJ. I'm going to still do some REW when it gets colder out. Want to get a visual on the effects.

REW is a nice golfer's distraction during the cold winter months.:)

My EX is 'on the truck' for delivery today, as I wait patiently < (yeah, right).
I ran the 8033 on my Velo yesterday. Without a REW it's hard to say what it did. But it 'seemed' smoother.
My room is not very difficult in that sense, so not sure I will experience anything very significant.
I kept the level the same instead of lowering it as recommended by the manual when calibrating. But it was useful in testing
out the foundation. Not too many sympathetic rattles in the room which is comforting. I will not take the
same liberties with the EX.

My EX is 'on the truck' for delivery today, as I wait patiently < (yeah, right).
I ran the 8033 on my Velo yesterday. Without a REW it's hard to say what it did. But it 'seemed' smoother.
My room is not very difficult in that sense, so not sure I will experience anything very significant.
I kept the level the same instead of lowering it as recommended by the manual when calibrating. But it was useful in testing
out the foundation. Not too many sympathetic rattles in the room which is comforting. I will not take the
same liberties with the EX.

Wow! The 8033 got there before the EX. Now that's fast shipping from Finland.

Totally off topic.......but since many of the regulars here are golf/subwoofer fans.......

WHOOHOO!!!! What a great day! I played golf and shot my best score ever at the course I played (73), then got home and checked my e-mail and my Epik Castle shipped today :D. I don't think things could get much better than this. Maybe a Lotto winner will decide to give me his winnings?

REW is a nice golfer's distraction during the cold winter months.:)

You've got the picture 100 %

Once I get that all set up, heck a behringer is only what, $99 more.
Then I can fool around, tweaking and stuff and if one proves substantially superior, an AVS ad ought to fix that situation. Already sold my Oppo switch here. HA !!

You guys are going to have me spending myself into the POORHOUSE !!

Totally off topic.......but since many of the regulars here are golf/subwoofer fans.......

WHOOHOO!!!! What a great day! I played golf and shot my best score ever at the course I played (73), then got home and checked my e-mail and my Epik Castle shipped today :D. I don't think things could get much better than this. Maybe a Lotto winner will decide to give me his winnings?

Awesome, lalakersfan34.:cool:

Me thinks you need to play the Lotto this evening...:D

Totally off topic.......but since many of the regulars here are golf/subwoofer fans.......

WHOOHOO!!!! What a great day! I played golf and shot my best score ever at the course I played (73), then got home and checked my e-mail and my Epik Castle shipped today :D. I don't think things could get much better than this. Maybe a Lotto winner will decide to give me his winnings?

Mid 70's here in NJ tomorrow and on through Monday. My back is getting sore already.

You've got the picture 100 %

Once I get that all set up, heck a behringer is only what, $99 more.
Then I can fool around, tweaking and stuff and if one proves substantially superior, an AVS ad ought to fix that situation. Already sold my Oppo switch here. HA !!

You guys are going to have me spending myself into the POORHOUSE !!

Hi PannyMann, odds are a BFD will be needed...more toys to play with while the golf clubs relax for the Winter.

We really are a bad influence around here.:p:p

Mid 70's here in NJ tomorrow and on through Monday. My back is getting sore already.

Hit'em straight, PannyMann, the EX can wait...:eek::D:eek:

Wow! The 8033 got there before the EX. Now that's fast shipping from Finland.

I ordered the AM only 1 day earlier, so effectively they both shipped in the same time span. That was amazing!
No doubt the additional cost for expediting the shipment is included in the price. I sure can't complain.

I am all setup on the Auralex Gramma..this sub is amazing!
One small detail I am miffed about, the RCA input connector. The opening for the outer shell of the male connector is very restrictive.
In fact, with Outlaw's own locking cables, you need to totally remove the locking shell for the connector to fully seat. Other brands are not perfect either. Seems I'm the only one noticing this.

Hi videoaddikt,

Man, you're set with a Gramma, AM8033 & the EX...

As far as the RCA input is concerned, I haven't noticed a problem with the sub cables I purchased from monoprice.com. I'll go and double check my EX to make sure that the connector is fully seated.

Larry

Hi videoaddikt,

Man, you're set with a Gramma, AM8033 & the EX...

As far as the RCA input is concerned, I haven't noticed a problem with the sub cables I purchased from monoprice.com. I'll go and double check my EX to make sure that the connector is fully seated.

Larry

It's a quibble, Larry. I'm sure many cables would fit just fine. But something I would have thought OA would have checked out with their own connectors.

But something I would have thought OA would have checked out with their own connectors.

No doubt!:eek:

I am all setup on the Auralex Gramma..this sub is amazing!
One small detail I am miffed about, the RCA input connector. The opening for the outer shell of the male connector is very restrictive.
In fact, with Outlaw's own locking cables, you need to totally remove the locking shell for the connector to fully seat. Other brands are not perfect either. Seems I'm the only one noticing this.

You are not officially set-up unit we see pictures! :D

You are not officially set-up unit we see pictures! :D

That will be coming soon..I have a relatively modest sized room.. more like medium as it is opened up mostly on one side wall.
I can see how this sub could be over-powering for an truly small room.
On the scale of 10 for the input level on the sub, I have it set to '3'.
If I set it up to 4 or 5, the receiver output level will start to bottom out at -10db, I can not lower it more.
With the sub at 3 I can used -5 on my receiver comfortable to meet the 75 db ref level. The AM helps I think..evens out the response... have yet to do an REM for eval.
Ran King Kong (HD-DVD DTS 5.1) and the bass at normal listening levels was fantastic.
Bass I could really feel.
Amazing, the Velodyne is slot-loaded with a 600 watt amp (1KW) and I had it cranked up much more for the same volume. And then there's the extension, no comparison! And I have not even done the bung/16Hz mode yet.

That will be coming soon..I have a relatively modest sized room.. more like medium as it is opened up mostly on one side wall.
I can see how this sub could be over-powering for an truly small room.
On the scale of 10 for the input level on the sub, I have it set to '3'.
If I set it up to 4 or 5, the receiver output level will start to bottom out at -10db, I can not lower it more.
With the sub at 3 I can used -5 on my receiver comfortable to meet the 75 db ref level. The AM helps I think..evens out the response... have yet to do an REM for eval.
Ran King Kong (HD-DVD DTS 5.1) and the bass at normal listening levels was fantastic.
Bass I could really feel.
Amazing, the Velodyne is slot-loaded with a 600 watt amp (1KW) and I had it cranked up much more for the same volume. And then there's the extension, no comparison! And I have not even done the bung/16Hz mode yet.

You may be able to do the max extension mode and utilize the Anti-Mode's 25-35Hz lift to boost that region. More than likely the region is going to suffer.

Have you done any listening comparisons of the Ant-Mode bypassed versus active? That should give you an idea if it is helping at all.

Does anyone want to see what the inside of the EX looks like? I took a few today! :o

why ask just pic me :)

OK guys, I resisted for a long time, but picked up a BFD after having little luck trying a quick fix with the eD EQ.2. The BFD has worked out great and sending the filter settings via MIDI was very quick. Thanks for sharing your experiences, it was the push I needed - now cut it out so I don't spend any more money. (must keep repeating...one sub is enough...one sub is enough...):D

I was able to find a spot along the front wall that minimized the 50Hz dip. The only weird thing was that there was little difference in extension under 20Hz for MO vs. ME mode. Rolled off at 18Hz for both settings (wish I would have saved the ME graph), so I'm sticking with MO for now.

Here are the graphs:

Original measurement (no smoothing)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/REWMONoCorrection-nosmoothing.jpg

Corrected (no smoothing)
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/REWMOBFDCorrected-nosmoothing.jpg

Hi PannyMann, odds are a BFD will be needed...more toys to play with while the golf clubs relax for the Winter.

We really are a bad influence around here.:p:p

So run the BFD AND Anti Mode back to back ? HHMMMMmmm

Sounds like an interesting cold weather pursuit to find out the optimal set up. BFD, Anti mode, BFD+Anto MOde, different ME and MO set ups, different lift modes on the Anti Mode. AND of course I'd have to run REW after each tweek to check results. THIS COULD TAKE UNTIL NEXT APRIL !!!! LOL !!

OK guys, I resisted for a long time, but picked up a BFD after having little luck trying a quick fix with the eD EQ.2. The BFD has worked out great and sending the filter settings via MIDI was very quick. Thanks for sharing your experiences, it was the push I needed - now cut it out so I don't spend any more money. (must keep repeating...one sub is enough...one sub is enough...):D

I was able to find a spot along the front wall that minimized the 50Hz dip. The only weird thing was that there was little difference in extension under 20Hz for MO vs. ME mode. Rolled off at 18Hz for both settings (wish I would have saved the ME graph), so I'm sticking with MO for now.


How many filters did you use? I hope not too many! Two filters would be plenty.

Read the whole thread, but pay close attention to this post:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/6818-minimal-eq-target-levels-hard-knee-house-curve-long.html#post55656

:)

How many filters did you use? I hope not too many! Two filters would be plenty.

Read the whole thread, but pay close attention to this post:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/6818-minimal-eq-target-levels-hard-knee-house-curve-long.html#post55656

:)
Thanks for the link, weverb. As you might have guessed, I used quite a few (9) filters on this one, just to see how close I could hug the line. Next step will be to try various house curves along with minimal filters. It's great to have 10 presets to store and compare.

EDIT: Couldn't wait to try it out. Thanks again. Looks like I was able to get relatively close with just two filters (on screen at least) and got it loaded to a preset. When I get a chance to measure, I'll post a follow-up graph.

So run the BFD AND Anti Mode back to back ? HHMMMMmmm

:o:o oops, forgot you have an AM8033. I think what I wanted to say was to use the REW software and see what the AM8033 is doing in your room.:o:o

Does anyone want to see what the inside of the EX looks like? I took a few today! :o

Count me in....

:o:o oops, forgot you have an AM8033. I think what I wanted to say was to use the REW software and see what the AM8033 is doing in your room.:o:o

Yep. It's going to be an interesting winter doing my gadget tweeking.

Well, since a few of you seem interested.... :p

Here is a new option instead of the BFD, SMS-1, or Anti-Mode....

It is a Sabine GRQ-3102S graphic/parametric equalizer (plus more) that you control by computer. There are no flashing lights or anything distracting. You still use REW to help develop your filters and then you just plug them in. I will be doing a full write up on Home Theater Shack once I get to plug it into my set-up. So far I have updated its firmware and been able to do programing no problem. I have attached a picture of the program screen.

You may be able to do the max extension mode and utilize the Anti-Mode's 25-35Hz lift to boost that region. More than likely the region is going to suffer.

Have you done any listening comparisons of the Ant-Mode bypassed versus active? That should give you an idea if it is helping at all.


That region does not seem to suffer in the extension mode..of course, as needed, the lift no doubt will add more. I need to run some test signals to get more consistency in what I perceive I hear, as well as average SPL readings with different modes.
Naturally, an REM is the best way, but would like to validate what I am hearing for now.

Well, since a few of you seem interested.... :p

Thanks for the peak under the hood weverb!:)

Are you having problems with your EX? I have to admit I have wanted to look inside as well...

Thanks for the peak under the hood weverb!:)

Are you having problems with your EX? I have to admit I have wanted to look inside as well...

Had a rattle to take care of. Talking with Scott, we figured out it was the wire connecting the amp to the driver was hitting one of the ports during very low (<25Hz) notes at high volumes. :o

Here is a new option instead of the BFD, SMS-1, or Anti-Mode....

Gentlemen. weverb is now going by the name: "EQ R US":D:p:D

BTW, this really looks interesting...

Gentlemen. weverb is now going by the name: "EQ R US":D:p:D

ROLF!!!!!!!!!!!!!:D Now that's funny!

BTW, this really looks interesting...

Here is where I will be updating with more info.......

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-forum/13554-alternative-bfd-fbq-deq-anti-mode-sms-1-a.html

:)

ajstan99 & weverb have a good dialog going and I'm going to toss some graphs and comments as well...

When I first put the BFD in the chain, I was going to use all 12 filters on both channels. I was going to light up the BFD like a Christmas Tree.:D

After reading the same article that weverb just posted on EQ, I went the other way searching for the "Two Filter" holy grail of EQ. Back and forth for months on end searching for the sound I want.

Right now, I'm interested in sonic punch during movies like Iron Man, Cloverfield, Master & Commander and WOTW. I want people to jump and in the case of my wife, let fly a yell like she does on a roller coaster:eek:

Here are my recent graphs and I have 9 filters set in the BFD between 20Hz - 80Hz and this sounds amazing with the above movies. Audyssey seems to hurt more than it helps in my room and is set to OFF. The 4 subs produce 85dB combined and I have a "Hard Knee" house curve set in REW.

ajstan99 & weverb have a good dialog going and I'm going to toss some graphs and comments as well...

When I first put the BFD in the chain, I was going to use all 12 filters on both channels. I was going to light up the BFD like a Christmas Tree.:D

After reading the same article that weverb just posted on EQ, I went the other way searching for the "Two Filter" holy grail of EQ. Back and forth for months on end searching for the sound I want.

Right now, I'm interested in sonic punch during movies like Iron Man, Cloverfield, Master & Commander and WOTW. I want people to jump and in the case of my wife, let fly a yell like she does on a roller coaster:eek:

Here are my recent graphs and I have 9 filters set in the BFD between 20Hz - 80Hz and this sounds amazing with the above movies. Audyssey seems to hurt more than it helps in my room and is set to OFF. The 4 subs produce 85dB combined and I have a "Hard Knee" house curve set in REW.

Mr. Outlaw (Larry)....

9 filters! :eek: Care to share their settings? Do you also have a graph of everything together?

Looking at that incredible boost you have after 20Hz., at high pass filter at 20Hz would help level that off, but will kill that 10Hz response. Are you actually getting down to 10Hz.?

I am not sure on 10Hz...I really don't think so. I think the sound card is inaccurate at 10Hz.:(

This room really vibrates starting at 20Hz. I think that is what giving me that hugh boost at 16Hz. I'll post my filters later today. My parents are celebrating their 59th wedding anniversary today!:eek::):eek:

My parents are celebrating their 59th wedding anniversary today!:eek::):eek:

:eek: Major cudos to them!

Here is the subs + mains graph....

Now look at the peak around 16Hz.:eek::eek::eek:

I am not sure on 10Hz...I really don't think so. I think the sound card is inaccurate at 10Hz.:(

This room really vibrates starting at 20Hz. I think that is what giving me that hugh boost at 16Hz. I'll post my filters later today. My parents are celebrating their 59th wedding anniversary today!:eek::):eek:

Wow, congrats to your parents! That's sure a rarity these days.

Well, since a few of you seem interested.... :p

Hey EQ R US,

Great pics of the inside. Would you mind snapping a couple of the driver?

Hey EQ R US,

Great pics of the inside. Would you mind snapping a couple of the driver?

Sorry, already back up and running. :D Or should I say thumping. I will say this though, that is one heavy driver! I had to lay it on its side to get those pix. There was no way I could hold the driver and do what I had to do.

Thanks, weverb. BTW, what did you think of the rigidity of the cabinet? In the pics I can one wooden brace between the sides. Is the cabinet 3/4" or 1", etc.?

Thanks, weverb. BTW, what did you think of the rigidity of the cabinet? In the pics I can one wooden brace between the sides. Is the cabinet 3/4" or 1", etc.?

I really did not measure it, but I would guess 1". I was surprised how little was inside the EX. I have not see any of the popular subs to compare it to, but I would have added more bracing. I think that is one of the differences between the EX and the HSU 3.3. It is a trade off, more bracing would increase the cost closer to the 3.3.

I will say this though, one of the tests Scott asked me to do was play the sub at the same scenario that caused the rattles and then had me stick my hand in the port. There was A LOT off air coming out of the one port. I am currently running in max extension mode. :)

I really did not measure it, but I would guess 1". I was surprised how little was inside the EX. I have not see any of the popular subs to compare it to, but I would have added more bracing. I think that is one of the differences between the EX and the HSU 3.3. It is a trade off, more bracing would increase the cost closer to the 3.3.

I will say this though, one of the tests Scott asked me to do was play the sub at the same scenario that caused the rattles and then had me stick my hand in the port. There was A LOT off air coming out of the one port. I am currently running in max extension mode. :)

Interesting. Well, the EX weighs about 10 lbs more than my Veldoyne DLS-5000 and it was 15". I am pretty sure the walls are thicker on the EX.
Considering the 5000 had next to nothing below 30Hz, it was probably built up enough for what if offered.

OK, learned a bit more today. As it turns out, the 20Hz frequencies werent really rolling off in ME mode, it just looks like I had a plateau from 20Hz to 40Hz. Once I brought the plateau down, the graph is showing good response down to 10HZ (although I'm sure that the RS SPL meter may be off, even with the correction tables applied). Also, the ME graph needed less taming than MO.

Also, I noticed if I used a house curve and then used the Audyssey Dynamic EQ on my Onkyo 606, the bass was way too boomy. Looks like DEQ applies a house curve of its own. So, I tried a flat curve, which sounds better at louder levels, and I can turn the DEQ on at lower listening levels.

Here are some updated graphs.

Sub-only, no filters:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/Old%20REW%20Graphs/01-subonly-nofilter-80hzxo-audyssey.jpg

Corrected with 8 filters. With and without mains:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/Old%20REW%20Graphs/10-withandwomains-8filters-80hzxo-a.jpg

Corrected with 8 filters. With and without Audyssey Dynamic EQ:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/Old%20REW%20Graphs/11-withmains-8filters-80hzxo-audyss.jpg

Filters:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/Old%20REW%20Graphs/EQFiltersMONoHouseCurve.jpg

proud owner of a pair of m2200 monoblocks :).......driving a pair of paradigm studio 100v3's through a 990 pre/pro

ajstan99,

Where is your xo set? I think there are a few filters you do not need. You could probably raise your target line and therefore reduce some of those cutting filters like at 39.5Hz.

I think your best bet now is to go start a thread over at the Shack so we can really help you out. :)

weverb - the crossover is set at 80. If I raise the target level to where I think you're suggesting, I'll have a 10dB dropoff before I get to 16Hz, which I don't think can be boosted. Looks like my next stop will be HTS.

Here are my recent graphs and I have 9 filters set in the BFD between 20Hz - 80Hz and this sounds amazing with the above movies. Audyssey seems to hurt more than it helps in my room and is set to OFF. The 4 subs produce 85dB combined and I have a "Hard Knee" house curve set in REW.

Wow...I'm quoting myself.:D

@weverb: Here are my filters:

121971


Larry

p.s.: thanks to weverb & ajstan99

Wow...I'm quoting myself.:D

@weverb: Here are my filters in BFD "speak":

FR/Fine Adj/Gain/BW/60

20/0/-5/4
25/+3/-3/4
25/+9/-15/14
40/-9/-5/12
50/+7/+6/4
63/-1/-7/4
63/+3/-4/5
63/+8/-5/4
80/-7/-7/9

I don't know how to post a picture of my EQ Filter table from REW.:o:o

Larry

You could do a screen capture and turn it into a jpg.

I am wondering if the first two could be combined into one filter that is wider. I am also wondering if the group (qty. 3) in the 63Hz range could also be combined into one. All five of those filters are pretty narrow. If you want, we can discuss else where.

Just as an FYI to those interested, if you save your measurements as mdat files in REW, you can send those to people and they can "play" with your graphs. :)

I am wondering if the first two could be combined into one filter that is wider. I am also wondering if the group (qty. 3) in the 63Hz range could also be combined into one. All five of those filters are pretty narrow.

Yeah, they are narrow and I got the idea from John's thread review/comparing the 8033 to REW/BFD over at the Shack. Did you see how narrow his filters were?

On the "screen capture":confused::confused::confused: I feel stupid.:o:o:o How do I do that?
You could save me and just PM me.:D:D

Larry

Yeah, they are narrow and I got the idea from John's thread review/comparing the 8033 to REW/BFD over at the Shack. Did you see how narrow his filters were?

I wonder what he meant by "Note that it took 7 filters to correct the 20 - 35Hz region, and in that area a change in filter frequency of less than 0.5Hz can be the difference between working and not working."?

PM sent.

On the "screen capture":confused::confused::confused: I feel stupid.:o:o:o How do I do that?
Larry
Hi Larry - to do a screen capture of the active window, hold down the "Alt" key and press "Print Screen". Open up MS Paint, paste, then save as a JPEG.

If you want to capture your entire screen, press "Print Screen" without holding down the "Alt" key.

No need to feel bad, it wasn't until yesterday that I finally noticed the "Save graph as a JPEG" button in REW.:eek:

no need to feel bad, it wasn't until yesterday that i finally noticed the "save graph as a jpeg" button in rew.:eek:

:)

No need to feel bad, it wasn't until yesterday that I finally noticed the "Save graph as a JPEG" button in REW.:eek:

Thanks for your kind words and assistance ajstan99.:)

Yeah, it was a good month of using REW before I saw that helpful little button.:D

Larry

I wonder what he meant by "Note that it took 7 filters to correct the 20 - 35Hz region, and in that area a change in filter frequency of less than 0.5Hz can be the difference between working and not working."?

PM sent.

:cool:...I'm interested, too.

good god this is a long thread. I love my LFM-1 EX and have no problems with it other than fearing structural damage to my house if turned past 6 o'clock. Is there anything special I should be gleaning from this thread?

Hello Vcook,

Yes, it is a long thread.:eek: I would start at about post #200 or #600 for EQ.

I guess this thread has become a how to EQ your Outlaw Sub.:)

Larry

I guess this thread has become a how to EQ your Outlaw Sub.:)

That's why I keep trying to get people to open a thread at the Shack. We want to keep this one on topic. :D

Hello Vcook,

Yes, it is a long thread.:eek: I would start at about post #200 or #600 for EQ.

I guess this thread has become a how to EQ your Outlaw Sub.:)

Larry

is it worth the effort? most people using the BFD I assume?

Hello Vcook,

Yes, it is a long thread.:eek: I would start at about post #200 or #600 for EQ.

I guess this thread has become a how to EQ your Outlaw Sub.:)

Larry

Guess I'd better not come here for help EQing my Castle when it arrives tomorrow...:p

is it worth the effort? most people using the BFD I assume?
Welcome Vcook - IMO, as someone who is new to the REW/BFD process, equalization of the sub is the equivalent of calibrating color and grayscale on your display.

Of course, once you have things set up correctly, it will likely be irritating to listen to a non EQ'd setup, much like it's hard to watch a non-calibrated display, once you've seen accurate reproduction.

The most important benefit may be that the wife no longer asks me to "turn it down" every two minutes, now that the harshness (Audyssey 2EQ helped) and boominess are gone.

Guess I'd better not come here for help EQing my Castle when it arrives tomorrow...:p

I'm sure you could teach all of us a thing or two about EQ.:)

Congrats on the pending arrival of the Castle.:cool::cool: I am looking forward to your thoughts...

Larry

is it worth the effort? most people using the BFD I assume?

Yes it is.

I second ajstan99's thoughts and suggest starting with REW and see what you have going on in your space.

We can all help you here or you can go to "The Shack" (http://www.hometheatershack.com) for more detailed information.

Larry

What is the difference between “Max Output” mode and the "Bass Extension" mode ?

Thanks

Hi Koy,

This should answer the question:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14751457#post14751457

Larry

You are not officially set-up unit we see pictures! :D


I did not forget.

I did not forget.

Nice! :D

I did not forget.

Nice looking set-up videoaddikt.:cool:

Man, we have some very nice rooms on this thread.:)

I recently picked up an LFM-1+ on b-stock and could not be happier with my purchase. The performance of this sub is out-of-this-world! I'd been running a 7.0 setup for almost 2 years and had convinced myself that I could keep putting off the purchase of a sub because I was getting some great bass response out of my full range front speakers (they handle down to ~32Hz).

Back in May I decided it was finally time to make the jump, but wanted to take advantage of Outlaw's great b-stock deals, and it wasn't until late September that an LFM-1+ became available.

This sub has added so much to my home theater experience! It fills in a gap I didn't even realize that I had. Amazing. I'm smiling ear to ear with all movie and music content now.

I also can't say enough about how nice and pleasant the Outlaw staff was to deal with. Great people that I will recommend without hesitation.

I know I'm not saying anything here that owner don't already know, but I just had to add my voice to the crowd of happy Outlaws.

I recently picked up an LFM-1+ on b-stock and could not be happier with my purchase. The performance of this sub is out-of-this-world! I'd been running a 7.0 setup for almost 2 years and had convinced myself that I could keep putting off the purchase of a sub because I was getting some great bass response out of my full range front speakers (they handle down to ~32Hz).

Back in May I decided it was finally time to make the jump, but wanted to take advantage of Outlaw's great b-stock deals, and it wasn't until late September that an LFM-1+ became available.

This sub has added so much to my home theater experience! It fills in a gap I didn't even realize that I had. Amazing. I'm smiling ear to ear with all movie and music content now.

I also can't say enough about how nice and pleasant the Outlaw staff was to deal with. Great people that I will recommend without hesitation.

I know I'm not saying anything here that owner don't already know, but I just had to add my voice to the crowd of happy Outlaws.

I ordered one of their shirts.. nice quality too! Very low noise floor! haha

Anybody ever have any problems with there LFM-1 + not receiving a signal after a while? The sub green light would be on but its nothing producing any bass. I have to unplug the connection from the sub in jack and then plug it back in for it to produce any bass. This just started yesterday and its the only way to remedy the situation.

The same thing happened to my Infinity sub a while back and that's when it went out. But with that one I could power it on and off and the signal would come back on. Anybody have any clues?

Anybody ever have any problems with there LFM-1 + not receiving a signal after a while? The sub green light would be on but its nothing producing any bass. I have to unplug the connection from the sub in jack and then plug it back in for it to produce any bass. This just started yesterday and its the only way to remedy the situation.

The same thing happened to my Infinity sub a while back and that's when it went out. But with that one I could power it on and off and the signal would come back on. Anybody have any clues?

Have you tried different cables? Does it exhibit the same problems no matter what the volume is set at? Is it the same receiver as when you had the other sub?

Yup same receiver. Onkyo Sr 705. Same volume. Same cable. I'm going to order another sub in wire to see if that's it. Would it hurt if I used a component video cable to send the audio? I heard that its all the same. I have one of those laying around and could try it...

Axe my problem. I found out that the sub in cable is getting disconnected by my girlfriend's stupid cat. Saw her tugging on it a little bit and sure enough it did it enough for it to lose connection. Anybody have any advice on what I should do to the pesky feline?

Also while getting close to the sub I heard there is a humming noise to it when its on. Those everyone else's have this or is it just mine. I think its just the shiatty cable that I have. Just ordered a new one so hopefully that end it.

Axe my problem. I found out that the sub in cable is getting disconnected by my girlfriend's stupid cat. Saw her tugging on it a little bit and sure enough it did it enough for it to lose connection. Anybody have any advice on what I should do to the pesky feline?

Also while getting close to the sub I heard there is a humming noise to it when its on. Those everyone else's have this or is it just mine. I think its just the shiatty cable that I have. Just ordered a new one so hopefully that end it.

Try any other component cable. They will work fine. You can try tucking the cable under a baseboard or any other type of cable management type of device.

I also can't say enough about how nice and pleasant the Outlaw staff was to deal with. Great people that I will recommend without hesitation.

I know I'm not saying anything here that owner don't already know, but I just had to add my voice to the crowd of happy Outlaws.

bobloblaw, I'm glad to hear you're loving your sub and that the Outlaws continue to be great people to work with.:)

I ordered one of their shirts.. nice quality too! Very low noise floor! haha

Funny.:D

I have always wanted an Outlaw shirt...maybe a stocking stuffer this year from one of my children.:):confused::)

Anybody have any advice on what I should do to the pesky feline?

357, I do...but this is a public forum.:p;):p

Well it can't be the cat cause it did it again today. I hope this is just my sub cable. I ordered a new cable from Monoprice and hopefully it will cause the problem to stop. Like I said before the same exact things happened before my Infinity sub went tits up. I haven't even had my Outlaw for 3 months yet. :(

Try any other cable. Run to Radio Shack and pick one up real quick. You can return it once you get the one from Monoprice.

Try any other cable. Run to Radio Shack and pick one up real quick. You can return it once you get the one from Monoprice.

Might take note of an earlier post I put up...I notice most but not all cables fit well onto the RCA jack input of the LFMs.
I have an EX, not sure the clearance around the connector on the amp is the same for all models.
But some cables with thick or jacketed connector shells do not seem to 'bottom-out' completely in the input jack.
If you have the Outlaw cables with locking shells, it could be very difficult. Just seems they should have made
the clearance hole around the input RCA in the amp plate a skosh larger. This may or may not have some affect on a good humless connection.
So far, it does not seem this has come up before, so maybe I am over-reacting.
:eek:

Well, just wanted to put a conclusion to my chapter of REW. This is my final adjustments to my current subs. At least until I get permission for a fourth!

I tried my EX in its "max output" mode and was able to get the first graph as a response. I really felt like I was missing out on something!

After working with Scott at Outlaw, I went back to its "max extension" mode and relocated it to the front corner. I was able to get enormous amount of room gain in this location (see second graph). The main problem with this scenario was that my current eq could only go as low as 20Hz.

With some help and some research (see what the DIY guys were using), I was able to find an inexpensive eq that would go down to 10Hz. My two main options were a Rane PE17 or a Symterix 551E. I was able to find a brand new Symetrix 551E for $125 shipped. It would be nice to be able to keep the response down to 14Hz. that I had, but I will take the +/-2dB smooth response down to 15Hz. If you were to drop my target line 2dB, it does intersect at 14.5dB. :D I am happy overall since the EX is only rate down to 16Hz.

Time to go listen!

weverb, you just can't get any better than that!:)

BTW, you're really the King of EQ. How many units have you auditioned since starting REW? :eek: four? five?...:D

Larry

weverb, you just can't get any better than that!:)

BTW, you're really the King of EQ. How many units have you auditioned since starting REW? :eek: four? five?...:D

Larry

+1. Weverb, that final EQ is just about as perfect as you could hope for! BTW, good to see you two around again. I was beginning to worry that you'd both decided to leave our little community. This thread has been pretty dormant as of late, and I feel a little weird trying to resurrect it, being the lone "non-Outlaw Outlaw" here :cool:. Hope we can get some good lively discussions going again.

^^

Yeah, I was on vacation for a couple of weeks...

How is the Castle doing?

Gentlemen,

Thanks for the comments. It has been a bumpy road for sure.

Larry - yes, it has been four different eq's that I have tested. I believe I am finally done with the subs. I just need to pick up one for my rear channel. :)

I am demoing "Man On Fire" as I type.

^^

Yeah, I was on vacation for a couple of weeks...

How is the Castle doing?

Better than the structural integrity of my house ;):D

Better than the structural integrity of my house ;):D

Hahahaha :D

Better than the structural integrity of my house ;):D

I know what you mean.:eek: After watching Incredible Hulk at near reference level, my neighbor (at least 50' from the subs) called and wanted to know if I heard some "weird" sound. I ask if he could describe it and he said, "that is the problem, I sort of felt it.":eek::eek::eek:

I brought him over for a demo.;)

I am demoing "Man On Fire" as I type.

Excellent choice...how does it sound?

I know what you mean.:eek: After watching Incredible Hulk at near reference level, my neighbor (at least 50' from the subs) called and wanted to know if I heard some "weird" sound. I ask if he could describe it and he said, "that is the problem, I sort of felt it.":eek::eek::eek:

I brought him over for a demo.;)

LOL! The Incredible Hulk is what caused me problems as well :D. I was watching at a modest level (around -7 or 8 from reference) and my family said that the rain gutters and eves on the house were all shaking and rattling! Good thing I didn't crank it up to reference...they might have fallen off :D:cool:

^^

Too Funny...sounds like you're having way too much fun with your new toy!

^^

Too Funny...sounds like you're having way too much fun with your new toy!

Yes, I am. Between that and the new projector, I'm pretty much in HT heaven.

Out of curiosity, did you get any port noise with your Outlaws in The Incredible Hulk? I got a little right as the sonic cannons fired up. I believe the bass is centered around 13hz though, which is well below port tuning on the Castle, so it makes sense it would cause noise because 13hz at that kind of SPL sweeps a LOT of air. Just curious if you got any port noise, or if you avoided it completely by running 50 subs at once :p.

Out of curiosity, did you get any port noise with your Outlaws in The Incredible Hulk? I got a little right as the sonic cannons fired up. I believe the bass is centered around 13hz though, which is well below port tuning on the Castle, so it makes sense it would cause noise because 13hz at that kind of SPL sweeps a LOT of air.

Maybe, I will run the scene again when I purchase the BR disc or rent it again.:o The first scene that I really noticed port noise on my set-up was "Pulse". I think that scene alone led me to multiple subs.:D


Just curious if you got any port noise, or if you avoided it completely by running 50 subs at once :p.

LQTM :p

Good to see things picking up around here. Here's my update:

A while back, I had posted that I saw minimal difference in my REW graphs between MO and ME mode. At the same time, I had also failed to notice that the port plug was only half as big as it used to be (although I did notice that the screw that held on the handle was sticking through the other side, but thought little of it. Yep, you guessed it, the pieces of the plug separated so that there was always a piece of the plug in-place.:rolleyes::o

Well, now that I have that issue resolved, REW is showing extension down to 14Hz. Still running flat, and engaging Dynamic EQ on the Onkyo 606 to add house curve for lower listening volumes. (Thanks for the filter assist, weverb.)

Using 6 filters, but am planning to play some more to see if I can get by with fewer. BTW, is 1/3 octave smoothing the best way to look at these graphs, or should some other setting recommended?

No EQ (1/3 Octave Smoothing):
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/mefixedplugxo80-nofilters.jpg

With EQ (1/3 Octave Smoothing):
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/mefixedplugxo80.jpg

With EQ (No Smoothing):
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/mefixedplugxo80-nosmoothing.jpg

At the same time, I had also failed to notice that the port plug was only half as big as it used to be (although I did notice that the screw that held on the handle was sticking through the other side, but thought little of it. Yep, you guessed it, the pieces of the plug separated so that there was always a piece of the plug in-place.:rolleyes::o

Yep, I can relate on that one.:o

BTW, is 1/3 octave smoothing the best way to look at these graphs, or should some other setting recommended?

Working with the sub and EQ, no smoothing is the way to go. Your last graph is looking good, Ajstan99.

So, I've been looking, watching, reading, thinking, etc. for a couple of months now. I had my choices narrowed down to the HSU, then found out about the Outlaw. Funny thing, I've been on the Outlaw email list for a few years and never thought about them until recently. We've just pulled the plug on the LFM 1+. I have a small living/watching room, with a half-wall between it and a very tiny galley kitchen, and an opening to a hallway that leads to the front door and to our front living room. I'm going to rough estimate the living room as 1920 cu ft., the kitchen is about 450 cu ft, the hallway is tiny, and the front living room is also about 1920 cu ft, but again it only comes into play through the hallway door opening.

I'm replacing a failed Sunfire Signature. It filled the room very well, and I'm hoping that the +1 will do even better, especially down in the low lows.

The room is carpeted and is pier and beam.

Of course I've told you all this to ask a simple question... I've read this entire thread and it seems that most of you prefer the ME over the MO for movies. Movies will be 100% of my listening when at medium to high volumes, the rest of the time is either spent gaming on the PS3 (I don't play FPS games) or music in the background. So, is ME the setting for me? I do plan on listening to both to see what I like, but I would like to start first with a recommendation.

Anyone else gone from a Sunfire to one of these?

TornadoTJ, Congrats on your purchase and welcome to the thread!

With one LFM-1+, I would start with Max Output while you run the test tones to set levels. When I had one sub, I ran in MO all the time and liked it very much.

IMHO, ME does aid in the movie experience when watching movies like Cloverfield, WOTW or Hulk. So, like you said, you will have to listen to both and see what it sounds like in your room.

Please check back with your thoughts and pix of your set-up.

Larry

I will post pics soon, I'm still working through the system. I'm still on an older JVC receiver with no HDMI, so I'm running toslink from the PS3 to the receiver, then HDMI to the TV. I'm using a Rotel 985 MK1 for power. Unfortunately, I have to use one of the channels off of it to drive the Sunfire, since the Sunfire's amp died. I had to settle on in-wall speakers for the front array, they sound good but are shallow compared to the little Bostons I used to use (Micro 90s), but the room just won't allow anything other than in-walls. They didn't plan for these HT systems in 1955 when they designed the house! The rears are Klipsch S-2s, they are OK for what they are, at the time it was what I could afford.

Our future plans are to move the HT to the front living room and use real speakers instead of in-walls, plus install it all on the side wall instead of lengthwise in the room, since our 46" Sammy LN-T4671 1080p TV seems too far away. Oh well, future plans are future plans, one step at a time and we will get there.

I've done 100% of the work myself, and I'm actually pretty proud of what I've done on a budget.

Robbie

Welcome TornadoTJ,

I would follow Larry's advice since he has experience with both the Plus and EX. On another note, to help with you setting up your new toy, be ready to try and plot some type of response measurements to see what set-up is best for your room. Larry introduced me to REW and we both highly recommend it to everyone. It takes probably an afternoon to set-up and get use to it. After that, you will love what does for you.

Again, welcome to the family/support group.

I'm very familiar with RTAs. I used to do extremely high-end car audio installations, we used an AudioControl 3050 in the day. Thing is, it came with its own special mic that was calibrated to the system. Do you use a calibrated mic on the PC, or do you just have to input the readings from the RS SPL meter? Does REW work as an RTA or is it all manual? I'm excited to know that something along those lines is available! I do know how to place the sub and look forward to all the "work", if you know what I mean ;)

Here's the pic of the front wall of my room. It's amazing how PLAIN this picture makes the room look. I may have to take another one farther back to show how not plain it is.

http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/bb7/TornadoTJ/livingroom.jpg

Don't mind the Rotel power center on top of the sub. I know that's a horrible place for it, but since that sub is so whacked I don't really care at this point. It'll be back down at the bottom of the rack when I'm done.

The HTPC is homemade, it's my DVR, my TVersity streamer, and other things anyone would use an HTPC for. The image on the screen is the DVR menu, with a picture of me taking my Jeep up the rocks ;)

^^

Robbie, Nice Set-Up Man!

Yeah, you can do RTA on REQ Wizard. I haven't tried it...yet. We can help you here or you can get even more help over at The Shack (http://www.hometheatershack.com).

I would read up on the REW help files and, of course, download the software.

Larry

Do you use a calibrated mic on the PC, or do you just have to input the readings from the RS SPL meter?

To answer your question about the mic, you can use the RS meter, but it is only good for about 3kHz (I also heard it is only good down to 15Hz.). The mic that they recommend for anything higher is the Behringer ECM8000 with a Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer. This mic combo can be professionally calibrated if you need more accuracy, but out of the box it is very good for HT use.

As Larry has mentioned, head over to the Shack and start reading. You will find a wealth of knowledge and great support.

The mic that they recommend for anything higher is the Behringer ECM8000 with a Behringer Xenyx 802 mixer.


:D:rolleyes:anyone know where I can get one of these.:rolleyes::D (he he)

Come on Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D:rolleyes:anyone know where I can get one of these.:rolleyes::D (he he)

Come on Friday!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Know where I can get a second EX? :D Just kidding!

The RS mic might work for me then. I won't have much interest yet in tuning the mains beyond setting levels anytime soon.

I won't have much interest yet in tuning the mains beyond setting levels anytime soon.

That's what I thought too. :p You can ask Larry about it also. :)

I"m not going to pull out my 10 band stereo BSR EQ from 1982 to tune my system. :) (Yes, I still have it. Why? I don't know. I think it's a guy thing).

Has anyone blew their fuse on their sub before? I have an LFM-2 and pulled out the fuse and am assuming it's blowen because it's burnt. I hope it's nothing more serious that I have to send it back because I live in Hawaii and shippin is ~$100. Anyway, my question is where can I find a 20mm 1.6A slow blow fuse? Can I just go down to Radio Shack?

RadioShack will certainly have the fuse you need. The one by me has several pullout trays with fuses of different sizes and values.

RadioShack will certainly have the fuse you need. The one by me has several pullout trays with fuses of different sizes and values.

Thank you. Didn't want to waste my time going down there if they didn't have it.

That's what I thought too. :p You can ask Larry about it also. :)

Yep, it starts slow. I'll just set the levels to 75dB. Ok..not bad. Now, I'll play with running the sub hot by 3 - 5dB. Ok..something still is missing. Let me try this REW/BFD thing with the RS meter. WOW...what a change that made. I wonder what a better mic and a full range reading on the sub + mains sounds like...maybe I need an upgraded EQ...:eek::eek::eek:

and on, and on, and on it goes.:D

Yep, it starts slow. I'll just set the levels to 75dB. Ok..not bad. Now, I'll play with running the sub hot by 3 - 5dB. Ok..something still is missing. Let me try this REW/BFD thing with the RS meter. WOW...what a change that made. I wonder what a better mic and a full range reading on the sub + mains sounds like...maybe I need an upgraded EQ...:eek::eek::eek:

and on, and on, and on it goes.:D

Exactly! I am looking for my fourth eq now! :eek: Larry went the other way with four subs! :)

By the way, my receiver does not have any type of built in correction/eq software.

Mine doesn't either. What kind of equalization you guys using? I've found in my past that I would rather have a 2 or 3 band parametric than a multi-band standard eq.

Mine doesn't either. What kind of equalization you guys using? I've found in my past that I would rather have a 2 or 3 band parametric than a multi-band standard eq.

You are going to need an external amp to take advantage of an outboard eq. I am using a NAD T754 with a Sherbourn 5/5120A amp.

I am currently using a Yamaha YDP2006 digital 2-channel, 6 band parametric eq for my main L/R speakers. I am also using one for my center and subs. One channel for center and the other for subs. I have also had to add a Symetrix 551E to the subs to be able to eq below 20Hz. the YDP's don't go any lower. Actually I could not find a digital for under $300 that would go lower than 20Hz.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,6373,CNTID%253D86%2526CTID%253D229000%2526VNM%253DLIVE%252 6AFLG%253DY%2526LGFL%253DN,00.html

:D

Why could you not use it between the receiver and the sub? I was only talking about EQing the sub.

I'm using a Rotel 985 MK-I for my amp - so external amp already done. (See above picture, 2nd box from top)

Why could you not use it between the receiver and the sub? I was only talking about EQing the sub.

I'm using a Rotel 985 MK-I for my amp - so external amp already done. (See above picture, 2nd box from top)

You can use it for the sub no problem. Most subs have their own amp. I was referring to mains/highs.

Most people start with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) DSP1124P for eq'ing their sub. Here is a link to its info. I have one for sale (PM me) if you need/want one. It is much cheaper than the Yamaha or just about any other parametric eq and REW was designed around using it.

http://www.behringer.com/DSP1124P/?lang=ENG

Forgot to add, just about every room with only one sub will benefit from a eq on the sub.

Forgot to add, just about every room with only one sub will benefit from a eq on the sub.

Amen, Father EQ, Amen.:)

Outlaw Audio has the LFM-1EX on sale for 20% off here (http://www.outlawaudio.com/blackfriday.html).

Outlaw Audio has the LFM-1EX on sale for 20% off here (http://www.outlawaudio.com/blackfriday.html).

I saw that. That's an awesome deal! $519 for an EX... :eek:

YAY! The wife hadn't ordered the +1 yet, looks like an EX is in our near future!!! :)

I got that in my email and looked over at her and said "Please tell me you didn't order yet!"

You can use it for the sub no problem. Most subs have their own amp. I was referring to mains/highs.

Most people start with a Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) DSP1124P for eq'ing their sub.

How funny, I used to use one of those when I was a live sound engineer for the floor monitors. I would have never thought of using one of those to EQ a sub!

I just dropped my $519 for a LFM-1 EX Sub. I was gonna get a SVS PC-12 NSD but, this thread changed my mind after I read it. (The 20% off helpped too) :D

I just dropped my $519 for a LFM-1 EX Sub. I was gonna get a SVS PC-12 NSD but, this thread changed my mind after I read it. (The 20% off helpped too) :D
Welcome, Absolute1 and Happy Thanksgiving! I too picked up an EX on sale ($599 w/free shipping) as my first large sub (previous was a BIC H-100), and have been impressed with the value. We look forward to seeing your pics and graphs.

Thanks aj... I can post some pics, however I have no idea how to make those neet-o graphs I've see all over this forum. (I'm would like to learn though) For now will use the "turn it down please." wife response time to judge the Outlaw's performance. J/K :rolleyes:

Thanks aj... I can post some pics, however I have no idea how to make those neet-o graphs I've see all over this forum. (I'm would like to learn though)

We use a program called Room EQ Wizard. You can find out tons more at hometheatershack.


For now will use the "turn it down please." wife response time to judge the Outlaw's performance. J/K :rolleyes:

:D

Thanks aj... I can post some pics, however I have no idea how to make those neet-o graphs I've see all over this forum. (I'm would like to learn though) For now will use the "turn it down please." wife response time to judge the Outlaw's performance. J/K :rolleyes:

We use a program called Room EQ Wizard. You can find out tons more at hometheatershack. :D

Here's a link to the Room EQ Wizard (REW) forum at Home Theater Shack:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/

This link provides a quick overview of REW:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

BTW, you'll always hear, "Turn it down, please" at some point, but the better you have your system setup/EQ'd/calibrated the louder you can play it before you get that request. ;)

Guess I gatta buy a Behringer DSP-1124P and a Galaxy Audio CM-140. Where's my Christmas bonus check? :confused:

Welcome to the family!

I'm thinking about buying a used LFM-1 EX, but I'd like to know if the warranty is transferable. I know the amps' warranties can be transferred to the new owner, but I couldn't find any info about the subs, except they carry a 3-year warranty.

I have a DSP1124P you can have for cheap. Just PM me.

Welcome to the family!

Thanks, PM sent!

Does anyone know if the Outlaw subwoofer warranties are transferable?

Does anyone know if the Outlaw subwoofer warranties are transferable?Don't know, but here's a link to the current manual wth warranty info:

http://pdf.outlawaudio.com/outlaw/docs/Variable.pdf

Probably worth a call to Outlaw to verify transferability.

I ordered one of the lfm-1 ex's for the sale price five days ago now and have yet to hear anything :( Now I realize there was a holiday in there, and perhaps they were closed for the week even, but I was SORT of hoping I'd hear something first thing this morning...I was ACTUALLY hoping I'd hear it was shipping!

I ordered one of the lfm-1 ex's for the sale price five days ago now and have yet to hear anything :( Now I realize there was a holiday in there, and perhaps they were closed for the week even, but I was SORT of hoping I'd hear something first thing this morning...I was ACTUALLY hoping I'd hear it was shipping!

You will probably here something at the end of the day. That's when I usually would get an invoice with the tracking info.

I hope so! still nothing as of 1 pm...

Same here, got my invoice with tracking info around 5P eastern time zone.

I understand your concern but I've spoken with the Outlaw folks a couple of times on the phone and they are very friendly and extremely helpful. If you don't hear anything by close of business today, give them a jingle tomorrow and I'm sure they'll fix it.

I got my invoice today and I ordered on 11/27. Anyway, I hope I have everything set up in Time for Dark Knight! :cool:

Hi all! Good and bad news.

I ordered on 11/27 for the black friday sale of the lfm1-ex and got my invoice yesterday. The good? Just received subwoofer from fedex about 5 minutes ago. Yay!! The bad? The rest of my Swans speakers fronts, center, and rears are delayed til Jan 15th 2009.

I purchased entirely new HT AV system including a Pioneer Elite SC-05 that's still unopened to power them. I do have some old entry level bose 300 series as fronts I suppose I could test fronts and sub. Oh well, I really hope you all get yours soon too. The box the lfm1-ex is packaged in is HUGE.

s-one

[QUOTE=s-one;15208142]Hi all! Good and bad news.

I ordered on 11/27 for the black friday sale of the lfm1-ex and got my invoice yesterday. The good? Just received subwoofer from fedex about 5 minutes ago. Yay!! The bad? The rest of my Swans speakers fronts, center, and rears are delayed til Jan 15th 2009.

Do you REALLY think you can resist hooking that beast up for a test drive for another MONTH AND A HALF !?!?!!! You're going to go nutz my man !

LOL !!

The bad? The rest of my Swans speakers fronts, center, and rears are delayed til Jan 15th 2009. s-one

Man, that hurts s-one. :mad::mad:

Tell me about guys! What do I do? :confused: This is my first ever ht subwoofer. I may just take a peak. :D

^^

s-one, you might want to start looking at the REW software to help you decided where to place this beast for best in-room performance. You can head over to The Shack (http://www.hometheatershack.com) for more information.

Hey thanks laugsbach! I will do that. The beast is still in the box waiting to be unleashed. It just stares at me waiting. LOL!

Hey thanks laugsbach! I will do that. The beast is still in the box waiting to be unleashed. It just stares at me waiting. LOL!

Can't you hear it ? Feed me....FEEEED MEEE !!!

LOL !!!

Can't you hear it ? Feed me....FEEEED MEEE !!!

LOL !!!

:D

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/7338/lfm1exaa7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

s-one

I've been trying to decide on a new subwoofer for a while now and I settled on a LFM-1 compact due to the sweet Black Friday deal. I've been pumped about getting it. The compact is replacing my Harmon Kardon htib subwoofer. It was supposed to be delivered today, but nobody was home when the delivery person got there. :(

My wife had gone to see the Rockettes Christmas show and now I have to wait until tomorrow. DANG ROCKETTES!!! :rolleyes: I guess now I'll just have to tell her that the honeydo list will just have to wait. :D

Good one s-one !!!! ROTFLMAO !!!!!!!!!!!!

Just a gratuitous bump. I watched Live Free or Die Hard blu-ray this afternoon, and man was the LFM-1 EX awesome. Realizing that I was watching more movies than listening to music in our main system, I recently switched from MO to ME to get the most out of my movies, and it has been awesome. Still sounds great for music, but I love knowing that I am getting all of that low bass that may be in a soundtrack. The visceral impact of the machine guns on the DTS HD-MA track on this one was sweet.

^^^ Oh I can agree!!! I received my LFM-1 EX 2-3 weeks ago and we watched our first subwoofer based movie. Our first was Ironman and I can't get enough of that scene when the guy was demo'ing his rockets in the mountain side.. OH MY! Then we watched Kung Fu Panda and "that scene", if you seen it you know what I'm talking about, my daughter said she felt the ground shake. There is that thread: "Kung Fu Panda... lets you know your sub sucks (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1085027)" and let me tell you... the LFM-1 EX sure is no slouch there. I'm still waiting for the rest of my speakers (Swans) to come in to complete my new HT setup. Well done Outlaw with your LFM-1 EX!

s-one

Check out "wanted". Lots of LFE and surround effects. My LFM-1+ pleases me a great deal when the train falls down into the canyon and the central character is riding it down. NICE !! ....and probably even better with your EX BEAST !!!!

Well Guys, I'm going to toss my current recommendation into the ring...:)

Incredible Hulk is another great LFE movie title. Certain scenes in this movie pressurized the room with my subs in ME mode. Since these subs are new and are located nearfield, I could smell the "inside of the subs" as they were moving some serious air. :eek::eek:

War of the World does this as well...

Certain scenes in this movie pressurized the room with my subs in ME mode.

Lucky man!

I still like Hot Fuzz for the insane amount of bass and for good laughs. :D I just watched a few scenes the other day (since I have been able to eq the low end) and was able to turn it up to -10dB on the 'ol volume knob. :D No pressurized room, but a lot of rumbles and rattles.

^^

Hot Fuzz is an all-around fun movie and delivers the bass goods.

It seems to me that a scene needs to be low, loud and long to really build the sensation. I would think that it really helps me feel this due to the placement of the subs nearfield and consistently watching my movies at -10dB to 0dB on the MV.

I can only imagine with some DIY'ers feel in their theaters!

i have to ask... i am about to make a decision "very" soon...

will two LFM-1 EX's compare to one SVS PB-13 Ultra?

room size is 4000^ft...

----------

i have two Outlaw Amplifiers and know they build quality... but on another note... why do they use BASH sub amps and not build their own?

will two LFM-1 EX's compare to one SVS PB-13 Ultra?

i have two Outlaw Amplifiers and know they build quality... but on another note... why do they use BASH sub amps and not build their own?

First off, I don't think they really build anything of their own. I think they work with other companies (i.e. HSU, etc.).

Second, I doubt two EX's will equal a PB-13 Ultra. You will probably only gain 6dB more by stacking the two EX's. I would look for some real test information like the following:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/subwoofer-tests/8149-svs-pb13-ultra-15-hz-tune-new.html#post68560

You may get more output from some room gain. Then again, I have not seen any really test results for an EX yet.

Was wondering what people's experience with Outlaw's Tech Support/Customer Support has been. Are they pretty quick at resolving problems?

My LFM-1 Compact has stopped powering up and I'm pretty sure that the amp has died (yes, I checked the fuse and power cables and power sources). I really need to get it working by Christmas or there's going to be some sad faces (mainly mine) around the house that day.

Already opened a ticket and gave them a call but they're apparently closed for the weekend due to a storm in their area. If anyone from Outlaw is reading these boards, I'd gladly pay for expedited shipping to my neck of the woods. :o

they are great...I had a 7100 amp that had a catastrophic failure (mine was only the second they had ever seen do this)...I believe it was listed at 6-8 weeks for repair...I got it back in half that and it came back looking better than when it went in...and I take care of my stuff...been running tops since...they will take good care of you!
Bill

Was wondering what people's experience with Outlaw's Tech Support/Customer Support has been. Are they pretty quick at resolving problems?

My LFM-1 Compact has stopped powering up and I'm pretty sure that the amp has died (yes, I checked the fuse and power cables and power sources). I really need to get it working by Christmas or there's going to be some sad faces (mainly mine) around the house that day.

Already opened a ticket and gave them a call but they're apparently closed for the weekend due to a storm in their area. If anyone from Outlaw is reading these boards, I'd gladly pay for expedited shipping to my neck of the woods. :o

My original LFM-1 amp died after running extremely hot for for about 1/2 hour the first time I turned it on. After a quick phone conversation Outlaw I had a new amp in my hands within a couple of days and I swaped it out and sent the damaged amp back.

They take care of their customers fast. :)

My original LFM-1 amp died after running extremely hot for for about 1/2 hour the first time I turned it on. After a quick phone conversation Outlaw I had a new amp in my hands within a couple of days and I swaped it out and sent the damaged amp back.

They take care of their customers fast. :)

Well your experience was much better than mine is turning out to be. I have to package up my amp and ship it to them, where they will repair it then ship it back to me when they're done. Hard to believe they don't have at least one spare amp (even a refurb) sitting on the shelf that they could send me for an advance swap-out. I guess it never occurred to them that amps die once in a while and it would be a good idea to keep a spare on-hand. Not really impressed so far, hopefully things will improve.

:(

Happy holidays to the Outlaw family and friends! :D

http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/5212/shelbychristmasfe9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img126.imageshack.us/img126/shelbychristmasfe9.jpg/1/w900.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img126/shelbychristmasfe9.jpg/1/)

^^

Dressing up the "Woofer" for the Holidays are we?:D:):D

Well your experience was much better than mine is turning out to be. I have to package up my amp and ship it to them, where they will repair it then ship it back to me when they're done. Hard to believe they don't have at least one spare amp (even a refurb) sitting on the shelf that they could send me for an advance swap-out. I guess it never occurred to them that amps die once in a while and it would be a good idea to keep a spare on-hand. Not really impressed so far, hopefully things will improve.

laulau, I'm sorry to read about this.:( The Outlaws have been very good to work with and I'm sure they will improve as we move into 2009.

^^

Dressing up the "Woofer" for the Holidays are we?:D:):D

You should have seen Halloween! :)

laulau, I'm sorry to read about this.:( The Outlaws have been very good to work with and I'm sure they will improve as we move into 2009.

Given the time of the year, I had hoped that there would be some effort on their part to exceed my expectations. There was none, just SOP. Not saying they've been derelict in their responsibilities in any way thus far, just that I've not seen anything special.

I miss my sub...

I miss my sub...

:(:o:(

My Outlaw LMF Plus is humming in bypass mode but not the X-over setting. What's the problemo? Receiver is Onkyo SR705 if that helps. Sub cable is not a month old and has been working perfectly...

My original LFM-1 amp died after running extremely hot for for about 1/2 hour the first time I turned it on. After a quick phone conversation Outlaw I had a new amp in my hands within a couple of days and I swaped it out and sent the damaged amp back.

They take care of their customers fast. :)

That may be true most of the time but they left me hanging like LauLau for weeks giving me the run around about the 970 problems that they refused to believe existed. The sweaky wheel gets the grease, after complaining several times about the problem Steve took my 8 month old 970 in trade toward a 990 which while not problem free didn't screech through my speakers or drop the audio. They took care of me in the end but only after I raised a stink.

Well, I'll start this year off by asking if any other owners have watched "The Dark Knight" with their Outlaw Sub? A great movie with an awesome soundtrack and plenty of weverb's favorite mid-bass.:)

Well, I'll start this year off by asking if any other owners have watched "The Dark Knight" with their Outlaw Sub? A great movie with an awesome soundtrack and plenty of weverb's favorite mid-bass.:)

Darn right! That gun scene in the lab just makes my back feel better and puts a grin on my face! :D

I was able to also watch Whorton and Casino Royal the past few days. Other great options for various bass scenes.

Well weverb, I guess we are really it for this thread so far this year.:eek:

Thanks to you, I have had the opportunity to tweak my settings using the ECM8000 mic + 802 preamp and I'm loving the results with REW software & BFD.

IOW, I really like how things sound in my room vs. using just the RS meter.

Happy New Year Outlaw DUDES !! LOL !!

I moved my LFM 1+ a few inches more out of the corner and re-eq'd it (anti-mode) and it's sounding better than ever. I can play the system somewhat louder beore the window behind the right front speakerr and sub starts shaking/vibrating. Sound is a bit 'tighter' overall as well.

I hope Santa was generous towards you.

Thank you PannyMann for checking in.:)

It is amazing what a small physical move of the sub can do.:cool:

Well weverb, I guess we are really it for this thread so far this year.:eek:

Thanks to you, I have had the opportunity to tweak my settings using the ECM8000 mic + 802 preamp and I'm loving the results with REW software & BFD.

IOW, I really like how things sound in my room vs. using just the RS meter.

Very happy to hear/read that it has made a difference. Us addicts need to support one another. :D

Happy New Year Outlaw DUDES !! LOL !!

I moved my LFM 1+ a few inches more out of the corner and re-eq'd it (anti-mode) and it's sounding better than ever. I can play the system somewhat louder beore the window behind the right front speakerr and sub starts shaking/vibrating. Sound is a bit 'tighter' overall as well.

I hope Santa was generous towards you.

Back at you PannyMann!

Glad to read things are still improving for you. Keep us updated.

Santa dropped off some good toys. Although they may not have been a fourth sub(cough...laugsbach...cough), they were HT related. :p