Isn't that just protective covering on the plexiglass top?

I ran the cable yesterday and got my LFM-1 Plus dialed in and OH YEAH!:D I am listening to a little Brian Setzer, Dark Side of the Moon and very very nice! I was shopping subs for 3 months and was 'asked' to keep it under 500.00. I was really leaning towards a HSU because I like the walnut finish, but this deal flipped my decision. I ended up with more sub than I thought I was going to get for what I could spend. Also the finish is very nice. It is NOT that painted MDF look, It is very smooth and the glass top adds a nice touch.

Anyone on the fence should really hurry up as the deal stops tonight and the Plus is not too big - just turn it down if you need to.

To install it I ran a 50 ft RG-6 double shielded cable from Radio Shack to a wall plate in the corner of my living room, I ran short so bought a 12ft quad shielded to take it through my wiring mess behind my cabinet. Bought a 4ft and 2 F-RCA adapters for the final connection and that did it. Sounds strong and cannot tell any difference than when I was testing it with a 6 ft RCA cable in front of the TV.

Onkyo 805
Aperion 6B
Outlaw LFM-1 Plus
...and growing!

edited due to someone else's embarassment, LOL (with you bro, not at you)

it's a protective sheet. it was REALLY hard to get off, that's why i got worried after my first attempt at peeling did nothing. i feel stupid now...

FYI i called in today to double check about any leftover stock, and they said they are indeed 100% sold out and any orders after last friday were definitely backorders.

deleted by OP due to embarassment :)

I don't know what you originally posted but I'm still LQTM.:D

it's a protective sheet. it was REALLY hard to get off, that's why i got worried after my first attempt at peeling did nothing. i feel stupid now...

FYI i called in today to double check about any leftover stock, and they said they are indeed 100% sold out and any orders after last friday were definitely backorders.

I knew it was a protective sheet, but only because I read that somewhere it had one. Mine was hard to peel off also. It came off in like 10 pieces. Don't feel stupid, feel smart for ordering it before they ran out!:D

Mine was hard to peel off also. It came off in like 10 pieces.

Same here...in fact, I was losing my patience and gave it a hard pull and the Plexiglas top started to come up.:eek::eek:

If the protective sheet was black, I would have left it on.:)

Well, I just broke down and ordered a LFM-1 Compact. I was trying to decide between a PA-120 and the Compact and just couldn't pass on the sale price and the higher resale value of the Outlaw.

Just joined the Outlaw gang! I ordered a LMF-1 Plus, now the waiting begins. Thanks for all the info ;)

Outlaw needs to give a kickback to this forum, they are selling a ton of subs because of it.

Count me in for a LFM-1 Compact!

My EX's finally arrived today...I did a basic fast install, so far I am really happy with the output these puppies put out. I couldn't be happier. If you are still on the fence for a decent sub...put these outlaws on your short list. Best bang for the buck IMHO.

Also, I agree the protective sheet is a pita to get off. Later

Does anyone have experience with their customer service? I am thinking about buying 2x LFM EXs but should I find any better deal before 45 days I want to be able to cancel.

Does anyone have experience with their customer service?

I have dealt with Scott @ Outlaw on several occasions and he has been very helpful and customer oriented.

BTW, septim, you have under 1.5 hours to decide.:D:eek::D

And yet another LFM-1 Compact here too !

My first real sub , it will replace a $100 Sony. I should hear a slight difference :D

And only $319 to my door , what a steal :)

I bought dual EX's...
Ok, just spent a few hours tweaking my subs using REW with one port plugged for a claimed response down to 16Hz. The original locations became the final locations with one front right and the other left rear. I'll try to post my REW graphs tomorrow to show the differences - even minor - with the frequency sweep. My goal was to have even room response in most of the seating positions. Some settings yielded flatish response below 15Hz, but with a major boost from 16-18Hz and some major dips elsewhere above 30Hz. Also, other seating positions besides the primary (my chair) were less than desirable. The final settings have a flat response to 16Hz and good consistent characteristics in most seating locations. I'm happy!

And yet another LFM-1 Compact here too.....:cool:

My first real sub , it will replace a $100 Sony. I should hear a slight difference :D

And only $319 to my door , what a steal :)

Just saw your PM, and replied. Sorry about that... Anyway, I replied that I was very happy with my Compact. It was also my first "real" sub.

I'm on board, had to pull the trigger on the LFM-1 compact tonight, better late then never. I researched and researched, feel this is the best for me. Energy C-500, C-50 and C-C50 speakers along with this sub should be a pretty decent set up. On to the A/V receiver research, thanks to everyone for helping make this a great informed decision.:D

Pay no attention to anything you see below about 20Hz. I do not believe the data and will need to repeat the calibrations and re-try.

The picture below overlays before and after I added the LFM-1 Compact.

Before (purple): AV123 ELT speakers (not the 525 series; the older ones), with "powered bass stands" (PBS...like small, sealed 8" subs) for the left and right. I just realized the XR-55 receiver was set to PLII because that's what I have that input set to for our Wii ;) Oh well, I'll do it over. Fronts set to full range in the XR-55.

After (blue): Adds the LFM-1 Compact.

You can see a bunch of nulls got filled in by the LFM-1 Compact, along with the whole range between 20 and 35Hz (the PBS drop off at about 35Hz). I can see right now that 64Hz is not going to fill in. The sub also filled right in up to the 80Hz crossover I set in the XR-55. Very nice.

This is without any equalization, which is coming next. I'll have to see if I can boost that null at 35Hz.

I'm not sure why 100-200Hz looks so bad. I'll need to play with REW a while to figure that out.

Before I ran these sweeps, I checked for the best sub location, using my meter. (Sub at seating position, play bass tracks, crawl around, looking for the highest SPL.)

- Dave

Add me to the outlaw owners list, sale ends at midnight eastern time. 2-9-09. I squeezed in at 11:15.
I ordered the LFM-1 EX. The sale is just too good. 519 shipped, LOL.

I have dealt with Outlaw customer service before...I had a catastrophic failure of my 7100 amp (their words) after about a year of ownership...I had to pay shipping one way...my amp was repaired and returned to me cleaner than it went in (and I take care of my stuff) and under the 6-8 week claimed repair turnaround...
I own or have owned the 1050 AVR, 950 PrePro, 7100 Amp, RR2150 2 channel receiver, LFM-1 (original), LFM-1 Plus on order...I have also called on things and ordered some parts from them (antenna, discs for a failed LFM-2 I bought used but arrived destroyed by improper packing by the seller on the 'bay)...always been nice...
Somehow I gave them my work address for my credit card and my home address for delivery (should have been the opposite) and Scott took care of it yesterday...he said they were VERY successful with this sale...
Bill

Add me to the outlaw owners list, sale ends at midnight eastern time. 9-9-09. I squeezed in at 11:15.
I ordered the LFM-1 EX. The sale is just too good. 519 shipped, LOL.

Outlaw still has sale prices listed on their web site as of 0800 EST.

Estimated date of delivery for 2 EX's: 2/13/09

I am very excite!


Just as a heads up guys, when I got the email with the tracking numbers the numbers were wrong. I've been checking the Fedex site since last week and it kept saying No record. I thought this was weird after having gotten the email 5 days ago, so I called Outlaw. They sent me the wrong numbers.

So if your tracking numbers aren't showing on the Fedex site after several days I would check with Outlaw. Same thing may have happenned to you.

Come to papa!:D

same thing happened to me back in NOV when I ordered mine--they had put 4 of the numbers in there twice at the end--kept checking and checking and nothing, removed the duplicate numbers and it showed it arriving the next day! Lucky for me so I could be home to sign for it.

Sale has ended.

Sale has ended.

However, they are still offering free shipping on the Plus and EX.

However, they are still offering free shipping on the Plus and EX.

Speaking of free shipping...got my Fed Ex tracking # today...ordered late last night.

Speaking of free shipping...got my Fed Ex tracking # today...ordered late last night.

Already? I thought they said up to a 45 day delay for the Plus and EX.
I ordered late last night also but have not heard anything from them yet.

Never mind I see you ordered the compact.

He got his FedEx tracking # because he ordered a compact, which they have in stock I believe.

He got his FedEx tracking # because he ordered a compact, which they have in stock I believe.

Sorry I didn't state that....

Sorry I didn't state that....

I mistook your response till I found out you ordered the compact too. :)
Quote someone only if you are responding directly to the content of the quote.

Ok, I updated my original list of new owners...let me know if I missed someone.:o

My count shows 31 new owners since the sale was posted::)

andiron
tpross
burnem760
eddie33081
ResIpsa
NCDave
Bryan Beckman
boarder1995
jwv651
thebuffman
kip_
combos99
relayer4u
Pratticus
byrnes
boxker
akrosdabay
steeler
hanesian
jjinwa
tpross
oleus
CCQuest
jmak
ThePrisoner
marin25
archer101
craigsub
kepler_27
kvn12345
Nimo

Welcome and enjoy your new sub(s):D:D

didn't craigsub buy 2?

one night with my new EX in the theater room and i'm happy so far. i'm waiting for the second one to get here (i know it could be a while) before any serious calibration because of my three-sub setup, but so far the only gripe is that it's showed me just how many rattle-prone areas there are in my basement!!!!!! i have the sub output at "3" with crossover bypassed (anything higher than that was way too heavy with my Onkyo 805's settings), on Bass Extension with the plug-block that came in it left inside. I have not experimented with the other setting without the plug yet, not much use for tweaking until i get all three subs set.

FYI, I had to move my Atlantic Technology THX sub to the back of the room instead of having two mismatched up front (while i wait for my second Outlaw to put up there)- the Outlaw is so much bigger, sleeker and impressive looking than the Atl Tech that it was just embarassing ;)

so i have an empty space to remind me of what is coming :)

didn't craigsub buy 2?

After a quick search, yes he did...:)

Already? I thought they said up to a 45 day delay for the Plus and EX.
I ordered late last night also but have not heard anything from them yet.

Never mind I see you ordered the compact.

I ordered the Plus on Sunday and got FedEx tracking today. I thought it was 45 days delay. Not sure what happened there.

one night with my new EX in the theater room and i'm happy so far. i'm waiting for the second one to get here (i know it could be a while) before any serious calibration because of my three-sub setup, but so far the only gripe is that it's showed me just how many rattle-prone areas there are in my basement!!!!!! i have the sub output at "3" with crossover bypassed (anything higher than that was way too heavy with my Onkyo 805's settings), on Bass Extension with the plug-block that came in it left inside. I have not experimented with the other setting without the plug yet, not much use for tweaking until i get all three subs set.

FYI, I had to move my Atlantic Technology THX sub to the back of the room instead of having two mismatched up front (while i wait for my second Outlaw to put up there)- the Outlaw is so much bigger, sleeker and impressive looking than the Atl Tech that it was just embarassing ;)

so i have an empty space to remind me of what is coming :)

Congrats on the new addition(s)! I too just received my pair of EXs and they are happily sitting in my family room.

Using a Pioneer VSX-1014TX receiver and the auto MCACC calibration, it set the sub channel to -10 db. To get any measurable output from the subs, I had to turn the gain to 7. I was not comfortable with that, so I turned the gain down to 5 and increased the sub channel to -5 db.

Can anyone comment on what the channel setting should be on the sub? I don't understand why the MCACC would want to attentuate the sub channel to -10 db when it set all other channels to +10 db.

I was not comfortable with that, so I turned the gain down to 5 and increased the sub channel to -5 db.

That looks good...

I'm at 3.5 on the sub with 0 on the AVR...

whens craig adding this sub to his reviews?

whens craig adding this sub to his reviews?

His first impressions compared to the MFW-15's post number 68, "ugh."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1116384&page=3

His first impressions compared to the MFW-15's post number 68, "ugh."

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1116384&page=3

He's not gospel. The subs he's comparing are:

1) not in the same size class.

2) not in the same price class.

Anyway, he can certainly return the EX's and pay a lot more for (non-stock) MFW-15's and then hope to heck that the amps hold out long enough to make it through a movie.

Take it with a grain of salt, guys. Do you like your EX? Terrific, and you got a great price. I, for one, love my Compact.

He's not gospel. The subs he's comparing are:

1) not in the same size class.

2) not in the same price class.

Anyway, he can certainly return the EX's and pay a lot more for (non-stock) MFW-15's and then hope to heck that the amps hold out long enough to make it through a movie.

Take it with a grain of salt, guys. Do you like your EX? Terrific, and you got a great price. I, for one, love my Compact.

Price wise they are about the same class. 699 MFW-15 vs 649 EX when not on sale.
Size is where the big difference is. I'm sure I'll be happy with the EX since I'm upgrading from a Sony sub.
Plus I keep seeing that " Disclosure: I am a customer of AV123 and a friend of Mark Schifter.' in Craig's post. :confused:

I ordered the Plus on Sunday and got FedEx tracking today. I thought it was 45 days delay. Not sure what happened there.

I ordered mine on Sunday as well...nothing yet...:(...
Possibly after clearing out the double orders or changed minds and mistakes you got lucky...sure hope I'll be getting that tracking number soon...
Bill

Price wise they are about the same class. 699 MFW-15 vs 649 EX when not on sale.
Size is where the big difference is. I'm sure I'll be happy with the EX since I'm upgrading from a Sony sub.
Plus I keep seeing that " Disclosure: I am a customer of AV123 and a friend of Mark Schifter.' in Craig's post. :confused:

I have been a customer of Outlaw's since 1999, and think the world of Peter.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

The Outlaw subs have a lot more flexibility than do the MFW-15's ... which also means more time to dial them in.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night. :)

I ordered mine on Sunday as well...nothing yet...:(...
Possibly after clearing out the double orders or changed minds and mistakes you got lucky...sure hope I'll be getting that tracking number soon...
Bill


Not to be tar and feathered again....to all you recent COMPACT buyers the Fedex tracking statement states my COMPACT will be delivered Saturday to Virginia.........so yours shouldn't be too far behind.

I have been a customer of Outlaw's since 1999, and think the world of Peter.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

The Outlaw subs have a lot more flexibility than do the MFW-15's ... which also means more time to dial them in.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night. :)

Sounds good too me. Can't wait for your finally opinion on the EX.

I was thinking about getting Auralex GREAT GRAMMA.
The regular size would be to small for the EX but fits the plus units.
The sizes are 30 x 2.8 x 19 inches for the great and 23 x 2.8 x 15 inches for regular Gramma.

Originally Posted by steeler
Not to be tar and feathered again....to all you recent COMPACT buyers the Fedex tracking statement states my COMPACT will be delivered Saturday to Virginia.........so yours shouldn't be too far behind.


...sure but I quoted kvn12345 who ordered a Plus on Sunday and already received his tracking number...the Plus is one of the two that is listed as out of stock (the other being the EX) with the 45 day wait...since I ordered my Plus on Sunday as well...gives me hope that 45 days might go by quicker than it usually does...;)
Bill

I have been a customer of Outlaw's since 1999, and think the world of Peter.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.

The Outlaw subs have a lot more flexibility than do the MFW-15's ... which also means more time to dial them in.

Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night. :)

craigsub, can you post a short 1-2-3 of how to tweak a sub? I know there may be something else already here or somewhere on the net, but just knowing your thought process and steps to "tweaking" would help greatly.

He's not gospel.

Now turn to Chapter 7, Verse 12, in the Book of Craig. Pray hard you sinner!:D

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.
How could that post be perceived in any other way to an Outlaw owner or potential owner?

Sounds good too me. Can't wait for your finally opinion on the EX.

I was thinking about getting Auralex GREAT GRAMMA.
The regular size would be to small for the EX but fits the plus units.
The sizes are 30 x 2.8 x 19 inches for the great and 23 x 2.8 x 15 inches for regular Gramma.

Honestly, I was not getting what I thought I should have been getting with my original LFM-1. In my pursuit to maximize perceived tightness and extension as well as stop my wood floors from vibrating excessively I purchased the GRAMMA and it really appeared to help in a lot of areas. I still use it on the sub today and will recommend it to anyone looking for a cheap, quick tweak.

The nice thing about the sub which I'm sure applies to all there new subs as well is that it has always functioned as it was designed.

Oh and it should be noted that my original purchase of the LFM-1 was on a hunch and a good recommendation from gonk and craigsub.

craigsub, can you post a short 1-2-3 of how to tweak a sub? I know there may be something else already here or somewhere on the net, but just knowing your thought process and steps to "tweaking" would help greatly.

The process of tweaking is going to be, for most relatively inexperienced subwoofer purchasers, a rather lengthy affair.

The basics one should follow should be ...

1. Make sure your subwoofer is calibrated properly to the mains in your system. An SPL meter is probably the most important tool for achieving this.

Most people opt for the Radio Shack meter.

2. Carefully read the receiver manual along with the subwoofer manual for set up.

For example, you want to make sure you set (in almost all cases) all speakers to "small" and the crossover to 80 Hz.

Use the test tone from the receiver - or better yet, from a disc such as Avia, to set proper phasing and SPL levels between the mains and the subwoofer.

3. Outside this, there are a lot of issues to look at - depending on Budget, decor, and listening preferences.

Room Treatments

Audessey EQ, or another auto EQ in one's receiver

To answer your question - no, there isn't a simple "123" answer - but if you start with the first two listed above, the rest will get easier.

How could that post be perceived in any other way to an Outlaw owner or potential owner?

For most honest, mature readers, it will come across as a simple opening statement with a qualifier.

Those honest, mature readers are quite competent enough to read text completely. :)

Price wise they are about the same class. 699 MFW-15 vs 649 EX when not on sale.
Size is where the big difference is. I'm sure I'll be happy with the EX since I'm upgrading from a Sony sub.
Plus I keep seeing that " Disclosure: I am a customer of AV123 and a friend of Mark Schifter.' in Craig's post. :confused:

Have you seen the cost of shipping for the MFW-15?

$130-$196 so that makes it $829- $895 delivered.

If someone were to pull the trigger on one today you can't buy the black one because it is out of stock. You have to buy the wood veneer versions which are $799. So that makes it $929-$995 delivered.

The LMF-1 EX has free shipping so it is $649 delivered.

Please, guys, let's not jump to conclusions ... and let's not ignore the postive posts while focusing on what you perceive to be a negative opening post.
<cut>
Part of the review process here is to be ready to help others when they are trying to maximize perfomance. In our case, using a rug inder the subs and switching to single port mode made a big difference, and this was noted last night. :)
Hey, when the "Alan Greenspan of Subwoofers" speaks, the market reacts.:)

Honestly, I was not getting what I thought I should have been getting with my original LFM-1. In my pursuit to maximize perceived tightness and extension as well as stop my wood floors from vibrating excessively I purchased the GRAMMA and it really appeared to help in a lot of areas. I still use it on the sub today and will recommend it to anyone looking for a cheap, quick tweak.
+1. The GRAMMA made a huge difference for my EX as well, even though I'm on carpet and pad over concrete. I suspect the GRAMMA provides more of a clearance benefit rather than isolation in my case.

Of course, EQing with REW and a BFD had an even greater impact.

To be honest, I see where craigsub is coming from. When I first got the EX, prior to optimizing placement, adding the the GRAMMA, and EQing with BFD I was initially not seeing a whole lot of difference between the EX and my BIC H-100. Here were my initial impressions:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14412551#post14412551

For most honest, mature readers, it will come across as a simple opening statement with a qualifier.

Those honest, mature readers are quite competent enough to read text completely. :)
Nice non-explanation coming from a responsible writer. :)

Sounds good too me. Can't wait for your finally opinion on the EX.

I was thinking about getting Auralex GREAT GRAMMA.
The regular size would be to small for the EX but fits the plus units.
The sizes are 30 x 2.8 x 19 inches for the great and 23 x 2.8 x 15 inches for regular Gramma.

I was thinking of getting the GRAMMA for the EX. Even though the sub is 24x17 inches the feet seem to be in position to fit the GRAMMA. I am going by the picture of course.

I was thinking of getting the GRAMMA for the EX. Even though the sub is 24x17 inches the feet seem to be in position to fit the GRAMMA. I am going by the picture of course.

I have a couple of the original Grammas at home - part of Day #2's testing was to try out the EX'es on them.

Just lurking here....waiting for my EX to arrive. It's out for delivery....could arrive at any time. Hey...while I wait...and I realize this might be the wrong place...but I need a receiver. I can't even hook my sub up until I buy a receiver.

I want to connect the sub, fronts, backs, PS3/BluRay to my new plasma. Any recommendations. So far I have been told Onkyo 876 or 805. I know the 876 is supposed to be stellar...but it's a bit of a push financially. I found the Onkyo 606 and 706 for a great price so those are options too. What else would you guys recommend? What are you using to power your set up? Thanks!

I was thinking of getting the GRAMMA for the EX. Even though the sub is 24x17 inches the feet seem to be in position to fit the GRAMMA. I am going by the picture of course.
Here are a couple of pictures of the EX and GRAMMA. It's just about a perfect fit. Hope this helps.

EX bottom view next to GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/OutlawSub003a.jpg

EX on GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/OutlawSub002a.jpg

I'd just say to anyone who just ordered one of the Outlaw subs, please do not get concerned or deterred based upon Craig's initial reaction. First, it is one man's opinion. Second, while his opinion and he was free to express it, it was a bit premature perhaps based upon it not being "dialed in" yet. Third, he seems to be coming around a bit on his view of the EX. Fourth, many people (testers and owners) have determined over the years that Outlaw subs (and its brethren, HSU subs) are excellent. That hasn't changed. And this sale was a real bargain for anyone who got in on it.

If I listened to all of the naysayers in different threads who criticize my A/V receiver (the Yamaha 663), I'd hate that one too. Yamaha is bright. Yamaha sucks with music. H/K and Denon and Marantz sound so much better... Etc. But here's the fact--the 663 is great, sounds great (both music and movies), and is a huge bang for the buck. I was coming from 2 straight higher-end H/K receivers.

Anyway, let's see where Craig ends up in his thoughts. I suspect he will praise the EX, but prefer the MFW-15. Bear in mind also, that the MFW has the 15" driver, as opposed to the 12" in the EX. It is something of a different beast.

Here are a couple of pictures of the EX and GRAMMA. It's just about a perfect fit. Hope this helps.

EX bottom view next to GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/OutlawSub003a.jpg

EX on GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/OutlawSub002a.jpgNice pictures...I need to get a couple of them gramma's...my carpet/padding is way too thick for a down firing sub.

^^

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA/

Here are a couple of pictures of the EX and GRAMMA. It's just about a perfect fit. Hope this helps.

EX bottom view next to GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/OutlawSub003a.jpg

EX on GRAMMA
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/OutlawSub002a.jpg

Thank you so much. That puts to rest my concerns about the GRAMMAs fitting the EX. I need to send back the unopened SubDude that I got for my CT-100 and get a GRAMMA instead. Then just wait 40 days for the EX to ship. ;)

^^

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GRAMMA/Nice...just ordered 2 gramma's.

What type of material are the gramma's made out of? Can they be easily cut to fit the size of the Compact?

The process of tweaking is going to be, for most relatively inexperienced subwoofer purchasers, a rather lengthy affair.

The basics one should follow should be ...

1. Make sure your subwoofer is calibrated properly to the mains in your system. An SPL meter is probably the most important tool for achieving this.

Most people opt for the Radio Shack meter.

2. Carefully read the receiver manual along with the subwoofer manual for set up.

For example, you want to make sure you set (in almost all cases) all speakers to "small" and the crossover to 80 Hz.

Use the test tone from the receiver - or better yet, from a disc such as Avia, to set proper phasing and SPL levels between the mains and the subwoofer.

3. Outside this, there are a lot of issues to look at - depending on Budget, decor, and listening preferences.

Room Treatments

Audessey EQ, or another auto EQ in one's receiver

To answer your question - no, there isn't a simple "123" answer - but if you start with the first two listed above, the rest will get easier.

Coming from a dishonest and immature reader: you might first consider where you want to place the sub. In my room, I saw huge SPL differences when I placed the sub in various locations.

The easiest way to do this is lay the sub on its side (since Outlaws are downfiring), play some consistent bass track loops or a test CD if you have one, and check the sound levels by ear and with a meter in the various possible sub locations. The location giving the highest SPL reading might be the best place to locate the sub and to start the real tweaking, as outlined in the sub manual and (if you are planning on using BFD/REW) on the excellent information over at hometheatershack.

- Dave

What type of material are the gramma's made out of? Can they be easily cut to fit the size of the Compact?

I'd imagine that with the right tools (powersaw?), it would be possible to cut the gramma. But in general, no it is not easy to modify. The foam is pretty solid, and the base is presumably plastic or wood, pretty solid.

The easiest way to do this is lay the sub on its side

I was not specific enough: "lay the sub on its side in the listening position..."

I was not specific enough: "lay the sub on its side in the listening position..."

(In my case, the listening position is a couch... The sub goes on its side so that the down-firing driver does not hit the couch cushions. This was not obvious in my explanation. Sorry for any possible confusion.)

My Plus arrived today, a day earlier than FedEx's original estimate. Hooray! Once my kids are settled down for the afternoon I'll head down to unbox and place it in my setup. In the meantime, that GRAMMA's looking awfully tempting...

(In my case, the listening position is a couch... The sub goes on its side so that the down-firing driver does not hit the couch cushions. This was not obvious in my explanation. Sorry for any possible confusion.)

You do know you can edit your posts, don't you? You can then add a reason for the edit.

What type of material are the gramma's made out of? Can they be easily cut to fit the size of the Compact?


Save your money. As long as you have at least an inch of clearance there is no need for a gramma.....from the horses mouth...... Outlaw.

Save your money. As long as you have at least an inch of clearance there is no need for a gramma.....from the horses mouth...... Outlaw.When I purchased mine from Scott, I told him I was worried about the clearance with the driver to my thick padded carpet and he suggested maybe a Gramma or try using the little disc's included with the sub. Well the disc helped but it's not enough...I only have about 1" clearance now...and it does sound a little muted. I think the Gramma is a stellar idea on carpeted area's. I ordered 2 gamma's today and they have shipped out already. We shall see. :)

When I purchased mine from Scott, I told him I was worried about the clearance with the driver to my thick padded carpet and he suggested maybe a Gramma or try using the little disc's included with the sub. Well the disc helped but it's not enough...I only have about 1" clearance now...and it does sound a little muted. I think the Gramma is a stellar idea on carpeted area's. I ordered 2 gamma's today and they have shipped out already. We shall see. :)

Hope they work for you but if they don't than that's a $100.00 mistake. Can you return them if you are not satisfied.

Just looking at my Fedex tracking slip the shipping weight for the Compact is 51 lbs but Outlaw's web page states 38 lbs.
13 lbs of packing material?????

Yes, easily 13+ lbs of packing material.
-double boxed
-heavy cardboard vertical corner reinforcements
-accessories box inside (similar size to a keyboard box)

All this will add up.

You do know you can edit your posts, don't you? You can then add a reason for the edit.

LOL. Yeah, I guess I can and somehow forgot about that. Thanks. :o

Hope they work for you but if they don't than that's a $100.00 mistake. Can you return them if you are not satisfied.Yes it could be a $100 mistake :eek: Hopefully not. :)

My new EX arrived today. Guys...I won't be able to hook it up until I get an AVR...but it looks perty! :) Well and honestly...I sat down after unpacking it and repeated to myself several times..."OMG". I looked at the measurments online but I may have to buy a new house to put this thing in! Seriously...this is huge! The largest sub I've seen in person. Wait till my wife gets home. I'm in deep shizzle! :eek: Can I put a protective mat on top and make it a table? Cheeze Whiz! :D

My new EX arrived today. Guys...I won't be able to hook it up until I get an AVR...but it looks perty! :) Well and honestly...I sat down after unpacking it and repeated to myself several times..."OMG". I looked at the measurments online but I may have to buy a new house to put this thing in! Seriously...this is huge! The largest sub I've seen in person. Wait till my wife gets home. I'm in deep shizzle! :eek: Can I put a protective mat on top and make it a table? Cheeze Whiz! :D

Show her this ... it might help. The "little sub" is an SVS PB-10, the not so little is the A7-900 from eD.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1801.jpg

Craig, unfortunately the "It's all relative Honey" argument does not always work when we add big black boxes to our family rooms. But I guess, "Honey, I could have ordered this" might get us some slack if we show them that monstrousity... :)

I ordered a RS spl meter today and downloaded the "Bink test CD" and burned it to disk.
I ran some test at different frequencies with just the cd and Audyssey setup that comes with the 876 receiver does config speakers at stated hz. My fronts were at full and I put them at 60Hz and test cd did verify that.
My Sony sub woofer sa-w3000 really struggles below 50Hz. Total distortion below 35 Hz.
Can't wait for the Outlaw EX to get here. Now I have some tools to play around with.

Craig, unfortunately the "It's all relative Honey" argument does not always work when we add big black boxes to our family rooms. But I guess, "Honey, I could have ordered this" might get us some slack if we show them that monstrousity... :)

Tell her you DID order this. Take the hour of abuse. Then show her the Outlaw. Cocktails help, too. :D

My new EX arrived today. Guys...I won't be able to hook it up until I get an AVR...but it looks perty! :) Well and honestly...I sat down after unpacking it and repeated to myself several times..."OMG". I looked at the measurments online but I may have to buy a new house to put this thing in! Seriously...this is huge! The largest sub I've seen in person. Wait till my wife gets home. I'm in deep shizzle! :eek: Can I put a protective mat on top and make it a table? Cheeze Whiz! :D
Try this one:

"But honey, I thought you told me that size doesn't matter?!" :p

Or maybe, if she's a fan of "Young Frankenstein," you can just smile and point to that big black monster and say (in your best pseudo-Madeline Kahn Transylvanian accent):
"It's twue --- it's TWUE !!"

When I purchased mine from Scott, I told him I was worried about the clearance with the driver to my thick padded carpet and he suggested maybe a Gramma or try using the little disc's included with the sub. Well the disc helped but it's not enough...I only have about 1" clearance now...and it does sound a little muted. I think the Gramma is a stellar idea on carpeted area's. I ordered 2 gamma's today and they have shipped out already. We shall see. :)

I think you are going to like them...here is a post from another Outlaw owner regarding the Gramma:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14216141#post14216141

BTW, I have thick carpet and a 1" clearance and by going to a 2" clearance, the sound really improved.:)

I think you are going to like them...here is a post from another Outlaw owner regarding the Gramma:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14216141#post14216141

BTW, I have thick carpet and a 1" clearance and by going to a 2" clearance, the sound really improved.:)

How did you get a 2 inch clearance when the spikes are only 1 1/2 ?

Count me in as an LFM-1 Plus owner I got in on the 439.00 deal just before they raised their prices.:) Bad part is it's back ordered for over 30 days...:o

Wait till my wife gets home. I'm in deep shizzle! :eek: Can I put a protective mat on top and make it a table? Cheeze Whiz! :D

Craig, unfortunately the "It's all relative Honey" argument does not always work when we add big black boxes to our family rooms. But I guess, "Honey, I could have ordered this" might get us some slack if we show them that monstrousity... :)

Tell her you DID order this. Take the hour of abuse. Then show her the Outlaw. Cocktails help, too. :D

Try this one:

"But honey, I thought you told me that size doesn't matter?!" :p

Or maybe, if she's a fan of "Young Frankenstein," you can just smile and point to that big black monster and say (in your best pseudo-Madeline Kahn Transylvanian accent):
"It's twue --- it's TWUE !!"
No, no, no, and no. If you must manipulate, here's how to do it:

Tell her, "Honey, it's a demo unit I'm going to test. Since this company was offering free shipping to try it out, I wanted to take the opportunity to see if a high-end [subwoofer, speaker, receiver, projector, etc.] like this was worth it before I spent any money on upgrading." Make sure you act skeptical, like you're really going to evaluate.

You then have 30-days to get her used to it. :)

I think you are going to like them...here is a post from another Outlaw owner regarding the Gramma:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14216141#post14216141

BTW, I have thick carpet and a 1" clearance and by going to a 2" clearance, the sound really improved.:)Larry, Thanks for pointing me to Phil's post...it seems he was getting the same results as I...I beleive the Gramma's will help with a cleaner less bloated bass...I'm still learning how to tweak the EX's, they seem to be a little harder with placement over the one Paradigm sub they replaced. :)

How did you get a 2 inch clearance when the spikes are only 1 1/2 ?
Here's Larry's creative, effective, yet inexpensive solution:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14231151#post14231151

Speaking of WAF, you guys are making me want to sneak my gramma underneath my EX. When we moved into our new house last year, my wife banished the gramma for aesthetic reasons, leaving the EX sitting on the carpet using the discs. It hasn't really been a problem, but I know from when my gramma was underneath my old SVS sub, it does do a great job. I think I now have a weekend "task".

Here's Larry's creative, effective, yet inexpensive solution:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14231151#post14231151

I am not an expert but can't one just put a piece of 3/4 inch particle board on the carpet and then the spikes will be the factory height off the floor. I guess what laugsbach did is also OK then you wouldn't need anything else but I personally don't want to see those extensions. Now if he painted them black that would be a different story.

edit......How about a piece of ABS pipe cut into fours like laugsbach did with the cardboard tubing....then there would be no need to paint them.

No, no, no, and no. If you must manipulate, here's how to do it:

Tell her, "Honey, it's a demo unit I'm going to test. Since this company was offering free shipping to try it out, I wanted to take the opportunity to see if a high-end [subwoofer, speaker, receiver, projector, etc.] like this was worth it before I spent any money on upgrading." Make sure you act skeptical, like you're really going to evaluate.

You then have 30-days to get her used to it. :)

Genius.

Now if he painted them black that would be a different story.

I was floored when my wife didn't want me to paint the extensions black. She thought they blended quite well with the carpet...one less thing that I had to do.

edit......How about a piece of ABS pipe cut into fours like laugsbach did with the cardboard tubing....then there would be no need to paint them.

That should work quite well.

Ok, I updated my original list of new owners...let me know if I missed someone.:o

My count shows 31 new owners since the sale was posted::)

andiron
tpross
burnem760
eddie33081
ResIpsa
NCDave
Bryan Beckman
boarder1995
jwv651
thebuffman
kip_
combos99
relayer4u
Pratticus
byrnes
boxker
akrosdabay
steeler
hanesian
jjinwa
tpross
oleus
CCQuest
jmak
ThePrisoner
marin25
archer101
craigsub
kepler_27
kvn12345
Nimo

Welcome and enjoy your new sub(s):D:DI and my subs thank you sir!

They have arrived at their new home, have been set up on either side of the couch as end tables, have had their lamps placed on them to verify to the GF that they are indeed endtables ;):D, etc etc etc.

I'm beat so I'm doing no tweaking tonight. They are hooked up in ME mode, set at 3, and I'll say this:

This is a huge difference from the sub they are replacing an Audiosource SW4 (12 inch down firing driver with dual 3 inch down firing ports, rated to 20hz). Laugh if you must, but it served me well for these past 10 years, even if it was a little boomy. It has gone to live with my brother and sister in law, who previously was using a Bose Accoustimess setup. When I was setting up the AS4 he asked "do I really need 3 subs?" Um, dude, those bass modules are not subs, no matter what Bose says, :D


Clearly, not the AS4 is not same class of sub though as the Outlaws. First thing I noticed right away was that the Outlaws SHAKE things, which the Audiosource did not. It was loud and gave nice thumping and booming LFE effects, but I never heard the windows shake. The bass from the Outlaws I can FEEL, which I never did with the AS4.

I played the opening scene from Superman Returns, when the sun goes supernova. When it actually explodes, I could feel my ears kind of pop. I am wondering if this what people mean when they talk about a sub "pressurizing" a room?

Anyways, off to see what WOTW sounds like with these, :D

I and my subs thank you sir!

They have arrived at their new home, have been set up on either side of the couch as end tables, have had their lamps placed on them to verify to the GF that they are indeed endtables ;):D, etc etc etc.

I'm beat so I'm doing no tweaking tonight. They are hooked up in ME mode, set at 3, and I'll say this:

This is a huge difference from the sub they are replacing an Audiosource SW4 (12 inch down firing driver with dual 3 inch down firing ports, rated to 20hz). Laugh if you must, but it served me well for these past 10 years, even if it was a little boomy. It has gone to live with my brother and sister in law, who previously was using a Bose Accoustimess setup. When I was setting up the AS4 he asked "do I really need 3 subs?" Um, dude, those bass modules are not subs, no matter what Bose says, :D


Clearly, not the AS4 is not same class of sub though as the Outlaws. First thing I noticed right away was that the Outlaws SHAKE things, which the Audiosource did not. It was loud and gave nice thumping and booming LFE effects, but I never heard the windows shake. The bass from the Outlaws I can FEEL, which I never did with the AS4.

I played the opening scene from Superman Returns, when the sun goes supernova. When it actually explodes, I could feel my ears kind of pop. I am wondering if this what people mean when they talk about a sub "pressurizing" a room?

Anyways, off to see what WOTW sounds like with these, :D

Wow great to hear your enjoying your new sub that just re affirms my purchase thank goodness I made the 439.00 deal.:) Thanks for the quick but concise review it just makes me even more impatient 40 days and 40 sleepless nights. I sure hope that boat comes in sooner rather than later...

Congrats, enjoy.:)

I was floored when my wife didn't want me to paint the extensions black. She thought they blended quite well with the carpet...one less thing that I had to do.



That should work quite well.

laugsbach

How did you determine that 2 inches was the sweet spot?

laugsbach

How did you determine that 2 inches was the sweet spot?

When I received my first Plus, I had the same opinion as jwv651. It had a muffled sound and when I measured, the sub was only about 1" off the thick carpet.

When I made my extenders, I was going for 1.750" and went over slightly and ended up at 2". Earlier in this thread, there was a post referencing an article about the "optimal" distance for a 12" driver and the author presented his equation for why 2" was ideal for a downward firing sub.

My ears & SPL meter agreed so I left my extenders at 2".:)

the not so little is the A7-900 from eD.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1801.jpg

My God, I love my Outlaw subs, but I want the A7.:eek::eek::eek::D

It would never pass WAF.:p

When I received my first Plus, I had the same opinion as jwv651. It had a muffled sound and when I measured, the sub was only about 1" off the thick carpet.

When I made my extenders, I was going for 1.750" and went over slightly and ended up at 2". Earlier in this thread, there was a post referencing an article about the "optimal" distance for a 12" driver and the author presented his equation for why 2" was ideal for a downward firing sub.

My ears & SPL meter agreed so I left my extenders at 2".:)

2 inches for a 12" driver or any downward firing sub.......how about a 10" driver? Also so I am not too confused you do or do not use a gramma?

I unpacked and positioned my new Plus in my HT setup. Because my room is so small (15 x 11 x 8) I really only have two options for placement. I put it in the same spot my forward-firing (8") Velodyne used to be, and am hoping for the best.

I haven't really done a lot of listening yet, but I did throw in "Kung Fu Panda" on Blu-ray to see how the Plus would do. I admittedly wasn't terribly impressed at first, but over time the sub seemed to perform better and better. I was quite blown away by Tai Lung's landing at the end of the bridge fight sequence - I literally felt the bass wave flow through my body and reverberate out of the room and into the hallway beyond. Cue the big stupid grin. :D

So, I'd been reading all about the "Ska-doosh!" moment in another thread, and was curious to see how the Plus would handle it. My Velodyne had done a pretty reasonable job with it - you know, pants legs moving and all that. Well, when the moment hit, I was at first chagrined by the loud rattle that accompanied it. So I went back and replayed it, and realized that no, that wasn't the sub bottoming out - that was my house shuddering from the sonic impact!

Also, I don't know if this is related or not, but the rest of my system also seemed to sound better with the Plus attached. I was hearing details in the mid- and upper-ranges I'd never noticed before (I'm running Ascend 340SEs in the L-C-R, and 170SEs in the LS-RS, all connected to an Onkyo 805). I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect because I was listening more intently than I typically do, or if the Plus's more powerful amp relieved the Onkyo of extra duties (the Velodyne was also externally powered), or if it's something else altogether.

Regardless, at this early stage I'm very happy with my purchase, and I look forward to seeing what difference a GRAMMA can provide (arriving tomorrow!).

Guys....quick update. She took it well! I said...it's really bigger than I imagined...looked worried...and she just acted like it was nothing! HEEEE :D

2 inches for a 12" driver or any downward firing sub.......how about a 10" driver? Also so I am not too confused you do or do not use a gramma?

I do not use a Gramma. I like the way all of the subs sound with the carpet and just wanted a little more room underneath and 2" works for my subjective/REW results and the article was specific to a 12" driver. If you have a thick carpet, just experiment with small blocks of wood/tile to raise your sub. I experimented with 3" as well.

FWIW, I have a poured concrete floor with a .5" thick high density carpet pad and a .5" thick carpet. Also, I'm sure my room plays a role in this.

The Gramma is going to do the same thing as my extensions and I would think, more. I will search for the article...

I hope this helps.:)

Guys....quick update. She took it well! I said...it's really bigger than I imagined...looked worried...and she just acted like it was nothing! HEEEE :D

:cool::cool:

I have a question about testing subs. You can download Bink Audio Test CD or just the frequency's you want in a wave file form here: http://binkster.net/extras.shtml
Then burn it to CD disk and play the wave file in your DVD player. If you set your surround speakers to small or above 60 Hz the sound will only come from the sub.

Has anyone tested their outlaw with different frequency's such as 16Hz,20Hz,25Hz,30Hz,40Hz etc. Just to see what kind of extension the sub has and how clean it is at different volumes.
This would also help when it comes to sub placement by moving sub to different locations and finding where it sounds the best.

Yesterday I tested my Sony sub and below 40 Hz all distortion even lower volumes.
Now the long wait for the back ordered Outlaw EX.

I look forward to seeing what difference a GRAMMA can provide (arriving tomorrow!).

Please check back with your thoughts on the GRAMMA. BTW, were you in ME mode for KFP?

Has anyone tested their outlaw with different frequency's such as 16Hz,20Hz,25Hz,30Hz,40Hz etc.

I have used the Rives Audio CD to do the same thing. I did this to prepare for REW/BFD and to get a general idea of my room before investing the time to learn/set-up REW/BFD.

http://www.rivesaudio.com/software/softframes.html

Has anyone tested their outlaw with different frequency's such as 16Hz,20Hz,25Hz,30Hz,40Hz etc. Just to see what kind of extension the sub has and how clean it is at different volumes.

This would also help when it comes to sub placement by moving sub to different locations and finding where it sounds the best.
Hi archer and welcome. We typically use Room EQ Wizard (REW) software to generate frequency sweeps and response graphs, then use a parametric EQ such as the Behringer Feedback Destroyer (BFD) to smooth out the response.

With REW, you can quickly generate graphs for multiple sub positions to find out which yields the flattest response and requires the least correction.

Here are links to the Home Theater Shack REW and BFD Forums where you can get the best and most complete info and help from experts.

Room EQ Wizard (REW) Information Index - Start Here:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/11707-room-eq-wizard-rew-information-index-links-guides-articles-stickies-please-read.html

REW & BFD Forums
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/rew-forum/
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-forum/

For reference, here are my REW response graphs before and after EQing with BFD. The Volume knob on the EX is at 3 and the Subwoofer level coming out of the Onkyo 606 receiver is at 0dB. Crossover is set at 80Hz for all 7 channels. As you'll see, I'm measuring flat down to 14Hz in my 4,200 ft^3 room:

Before EQ:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/mefixedplugxo80-nofilters.jpg

After EQ:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/mefixedplugxo80.jpg

Here's the layout of my room with the location of the Sub Cal marked:
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm40/ajstan99/HTLayout2.jpg

Hope this is helpful.

WOW, EQing with BFD made a big difference. Thanks for the links and info.

Please check back with your thoughts on the GRAMMA.

There are quite a few fans of the Subdude/GRAMMA in the other thread, so I'm hopeful that it will provide similar benefits for me. Tighter bass, fewer house rattles ... I hope to increase both my enjoyment as well as WAF simultaneously. :) I hope to test it out later tonight.

BTW, were you in ME mode for KFP?

Yup. My primary reason for upgrading was to hear frequencies below the 35Hz threshold on my Velodyne (on paper; I'm positive I've heard it go lower). In a room as small as mine, I've got no problem with SPLs. Do you think I'd do (even) better with MO?

Yup. My primary reason for upgrading was to hear frequencies below the 35Hz threshold on my Velodyne (on paper; I'm positive I've heard it go lower). In a room as small as mine, I've got no problem with SPLs. Do you think I'd do (even) better with MO?

I watch movies 100% with an occasional concert DVD/Blu-ray. For me, I like ME for movies like KFP. I have had both ME & MO set for long periods and just like ME for my set-up and listening habits. I want to feel the movie and I never stop enjoying the "little girl" screams from my Wife & Daughter.:D

My next tweaking session will be to set up a "Concert" filter on the BFD to see if I can smooth it out more under ME. I use a House Curve for movies.

Just wanted to drop in and say that the posts about WAF were awesome! :D

Some of you guys are truly insane!!! :eek:

WOW, EQing with BFD made a big difference. Thanks for the links and info.

You can say that again!

Awesome job ajstan99.:cool::cool:

Show her this ... it might help. The "little sub" is an SVS PB-10, the not so little is the A7-900 from eD.




http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/IMG_1801.jpg

:eek::eek::eek:

ajstan99,

Are you using Audyssey and REW/BFD together? Do you turn off your sub before running Audyssey to EQ your other speakers?

WOW, EQing with BFD made a big difference. Thanks for the links and info.
Thanks, archer. Once I got rid of the huge peaks at 40Hz and 18Hz, the sound became fuller and I was able to hear/feel the bass at the lower end, instead of hearing the walls/doors rattle.

Yup. My primary reason for upgrading was to hear frequencies below the 35Hz threshold on my Velodyne (on paper; I'm positive I've heard it go lower). In a room as small as mine, I've got no problem with SPLs. Do you think I'd do (even) better with MO?
If you have a small room, I would think you're better with the 16Hz ME tuning (heck, I'm in a big room and prefer ME), but a big part of the fun of a tunable sub is that you can experiment. Might as well give it a shot and see what you think.

You can say that again!

Awesome job ajstan99.:cool::cool:
Thanks, Larry. You and weverb were a big help.

ajstan99,

Are you using Audyssey and REW/BFD together? Do you turn off your sub before running Audyssey to EQ your other speakers?
Hi Bryan and welcome to you as well. Here's a link to the Audyssey thread where an expert is available for questions, but see below for what I (think I) know about Audyssey setup from my experience:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421

My Onkyo 606 only has Audyssey 2EQ, which doesn't affect the sub, but I used REW and set BFD filters and measurements with only the sub playing and without the Audyssey EQ engaged. Maybe someone with MultEQ (or other advanced Audyssey EQ) could chime in with what to do with the sub in their situation.

Here was my final process (as always, anyone should feel free to chime in and correct any errors and I will update this post):

1. Connect the BFD in the chain, put it into pass-through mode and run Audyessey setup to get the sub level-matched to the system. If the sub was not at 0dB in the receiver setup, I adjusted the volume on the sub and ran Audyssey again. The 0dB setting seems to provide an adequate level to BFD as well as to "wake-up" the sub out of stand-by mode. While I'm sure that a few dB in either direction would be OK, this is what works for me.

2. Set crossover to desired setting. 80Hz recommended. You can adjust the Audysey-determined crossover up (i.e. change Full band/40 Hz/60Hz to 80 Hz) but not down (i.e. change 100Hz, 120Hz, etc. to 80Hz) as you will likely have missing frequencies in your sound.

3. Put receiver into "stereo" mode, turn off Audyssey EQ, disconnect the fronts, and run measurements in REW.

4. Create the filters in REW, upload to the BFD and engage EQ.

5. Measure the response and adjust filters as necessary.

6. Rerun Audyssey with the sub and BFD engaged. Readjust crossover to desired setting (80Hz).

After running with Audyssey EQ engaged for about 4 months, I wound up disengaging the Audyssey EQ and saw how it was muffling my speakers. In parallel, I also reduced the toe-in of my Polk Monitor 50 fronts so they were intersecting 6ft. behind the main seating position, instead of directly at it. (I probably should run Audyssey again just to see the effect.)

I don't miss the DynamicEQ and am enjoying the flat sub response, although I can adjust the Subwoofer output if I so desired. Of course, I'll likely dig back into REW and experiment with some house curves just for fun, (but will see what Larry comes up with first :)).

Thank you for describing your EQ process - I'm sure I'll be referring to it at least a few times in the future.

When I got my 805 a year ago, I went to the Audyssey thread and read/skimmed through almost the entire thing. :eek: I went home and ran the whole 8-position EQ process and was generally satisfied with the results. Over time, though, I began to be irritated by what I perceived as a muffling of certain high frequencies and muddiness ("blatting"?) from the subwoofer. I disabled Audyssey and was much more satisfied with the results (above and beyond both the "house" Audyssey curve and Audyssey Flat). Thinking I did something wrong the first time, I ran Audyssey again. Same result.

I think I've gone through the process 3-4 times now, most recently with the sub turned off so Audyssey didn't mess with it. While I've liked the way it creates a more seamless soundstage between my speakers, the muffling has just been unacceptable. (Maybe I just prefer a "bright" sound? I dunno.)

I find it interesting that you used Audyssey to level match your sub at 0dB, especially since you end up disabling Audyssey anyway. I've just been using the receiver's test tones and my Rat Shack (old analog) meter to do it. My guess is you wouldn't recommend using Audyssey to level match your sub if you have no intention of using its auto-EQ settings.

Thank you for describing your EQ process - I'm sure I'll be referring to it at least a few times in the future.

When I got my 805 a year ago, I went to the Audyssey thread and read/skimmed through almost the entire thing. :eek: I went home and ran the whole 8-position EQ process and was generally satisfied with the results. Over time, though, I began to be irritated by what I perceived as a muffling of certain high frequencies and muddiness ("blatting"?) from the subwoofer. I disabled Audyssey and was much more satisfied with the results (above and beyond both the "house" Audyssey curve and Audyssey Flat). Thinking I did something wrong the first time, I ran Audyssey again. Same result.

I think I've gone through the process 3-4 times now, most recently with the sub turned off so Audyssey didn't mess with it. While I've liked the way it creates a more seamless soundstage between my speakers, the muffling has just been unacceptable. (Maybe I just prefer a "bright" sound? I dunno.)

I find it interesting that you used Audyssey to level match your sub at 0dB, especially since you end up disabling Audyssey anyway. I've just been using the receiver's test tones and my Rat Shack (old analog) meter to do it. My guess is you wouldn't recommend using Audyssey to level match your sub if you have no intention of using its auto-EQ settings.
Thanks for the info on your experience in re-running Audyssey - I won't get my hopes up.

Regarding using Audyssey to set speaker distance and level, I found it to be spot-on after verifying with the internal test tones, RS meter, and a tape measure. Sure, I could do it manually, but being as I have 2EQ and thus only 3 positions to measure, I'm done within 10 minutes, plus I also get updated Audyssey EQ settings to try out.

Even if it took 20-30 minutes, I'd probably do it anyhow, since half the fun for me is tweaking and seeing the impact of changing various settings.

After running with Audyssey EQ engaged for about 4 months, I wound up disengaging the Audyssey EQ and saw how it was muffling my speakers.

While I've liked the way it creates a more seamless soundstage between my speakers, the muffling has just been unacceptable. (Maybe I just prefer a "bright" sound? I dunno.)

I agree guys and have my Audyssey MultEQ XT turned off. I really didn't like how Audy was boosting my sub(s) and it seemed to go against what I was trying to do with REW/BFD for my room response.


I've just been using the receiver's test tones and my Rat Shack (old analog) meter to do it.

That is how I do it.

Even if it took 20-30 minutes, I'd probably do it anyhow, since half the fun for me is tweaking and seeing the impact of changing various settings.

Wow, a fellow Ohioan Tweaker.:D

For those that have Audyssey and unhappy do you have the old still puck mic?
The new style does work a lot better. I happen to have the new style and think it does a awesome job with my system. Problem is you can't just change over to the new one.

Quote:
"What is the importance of the new calibration microphone for 876/906 vs the old puck mic for the 805/875?
by Chris from Audyssey: Grazing incidence is the only accurate way to measure room effects because of how direct
and reverberant sound are combined.
For this to work as desired, the mic capsule must be as small as possible and not have any surface next to it that
could produce interference at high frequencies.
That's why the puck shape has problems, even if you point it to the ceiling.
2007: One problem with the Onkyo mic is that it is too short and stubby and so the base interferes with the capsule
that is not far enough from it. We are trying to have them switch to the Audyssey mic that has a longer stem for that purpose.
Unfortunately it also has a different calibration response so it can't be used with the current Onkyo that has a different
mic cal curve in it."

For those that have Audyssey and unhappy do you have the old still puck mic?

Yep, hockey puck for me with my 805.

I really like what Audyssey does to get you going but I prefer the sound from REW/BFD and Audyssey set to off at the moment.

Subject to change though.:D

Gramma's were delivered and installed....I must say, I love what they have done for my system...I know longer have that bloated, muted bass...it is tight and punchy as hell, very clean...Quite an improvement over being on thick carpet. I actually had to set EX's volume down to 3.5 from 5. I also can feel the pressure these suckers are capable of in my 14'x22'x8' room. The Gramma's in my situation was a Huge improvement. :D

BTW Thanks to Larry's recommendation...I ordered them from Sweetwater and they were shipped out the same day...and I received them the next day.

I decided to go for the Rythmik F12. Music performance and Size consideration mainly. So I am no longer in the Outlaw club, sorry.

How much better is the Rythmik ?

I decided to go for the Rythmik F12. Music performance and Size consideration mainly. So I am no longer in the Outlaw club, sorry.
HEY!! You can't quit - you're FIRED!! ;)

May all your dreams come true, even outside of the hole-in-the-wall Outlaw gang!

How much better is the Rythmik ?

It is a lot more expensive. ;) It is supposed to be cleaner and have better transients but not the raw output of the EX. For home theater I would guess the EX is better if you want more SPL. At least that is what my research led me to believe.

I decided to go for the Rythmik F12. Music performance and Size consideration mainly. So I am no longer in the Outlaw club, sorry.
Of course you're still welcome here. lalakersfan34 bought an Epik sub, but still stops by from time-to-time to join in the discussion, share notes and talk about EQ and tweaking.

BTW Thanks to Larry's recommendation...I ordered them from Sweetwater and they were shipped out the same day...and I received them the next day.

That is good to hear.:cool:

Yep, hockey puck for me with my 805.

I really like what Audyssey does to get you going but I prefer the sound from REW/BFD and Audyssey set to off at the moment.

Subject to change though.:D
Have you considered combining the manual settings option of Audyssey with the analysis of REW and combining the two?

Does REW only work with subwoofers? It's my understanding, and I may be wrong, that when you are using the REW with the BFD all you are adjusting is the response of the sub. In other words, you are turning off Audyssey for ALL of the speakers to adjust the settings for ONE speaker. You're losing all the EQ for the rest of your speakers, and it kind of seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me.

If it's possible, wouldn't it make more sense to use REW in conjunction with the manual settings of Audyssey in your receiver so that you can adjust all of the speakers?

Or do I not understand?

Have you considered combining the manual settings option of Audyssey with the analysis of REW and combining the two?

Hi ResIpsa, yes I have tried to use REW on my fronts and input the data into the manual Audyssey setting and I wasn't very happy. I didn't spend a ton of time doing this.

Does REW only work with subwoofers?

I have used it to take readings of the fronts and I *think* weverb has used it for his center.

It's my understanding, and I may be wrong, that when you are using the REW with the BFD all you are adjusting is the response of the sub. In other words, you are turning off Audyssey for ALL of the speakers to adjust the settings for ONE speaker.

Yes.

You're losing all the EQ for the rest of your speakers, and it kind of seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater to me.

I agree, it does. Right now I'm listening to my subjective ears.:D

If it's possible, wouldn't it make more sense to use REW in conjunction with the manual settings of Audyssey in your receiver so that you can adjust all of the speakers?

Yes, it does make sense. I am going to try another round of tweaks with Audyssey.:)

I received my GRAMMA from Amazon today (love having Prime with the one day shipping option), but it's too late in the evening for me to try it out. The researcher in me wants to do some listening pre- and post-GRAMMA to make sure the differences I might be hearing are objective and not just because I spent $50 and want to hear differences. Ideally, I'd like to get this REW thing figured out so I can look at actual room response curves. So it may be a little while yet. But I'm in no hurry. I love the sub and am definitely keeping it.

As far as Audyssey goes, yes I have the hockey puck mic. If I'm understanding Chris directly, it looks like I'm stuck with it. It'd be GREAT if there were some sort of exchange program worked out for a new mic and new Audyssey firmware, but Onkyo + updating firmware go together about as well as oil and water. Shame really, as I love the premise of Audyssey MultiEQ XT, and keep wanting to believe it'll work wonders for my system. But if the weak link in all of this is the mic, and if the mic can't be replaced (or "surgically altered" :D), then I'm stuck with things as they are. I'm quite satisfied with the non-Audyssey sound anyway.

I ordered the Plus on Sunday and got FedEx tracking today. I thought it was 45 days delay. Not sure what happened there.

Hey Kevin...you ordered your Plus on Sunday Feb 8th and already received a tracking number???...I ordered my Plus on the same day and have not yet received anything...
Bill

Thanks again guys, I'll be ordering a GRAMMA from Amazon. I can't wait to receive my LMF-1 Plus. I have an old house with hard wood floors, hope the GRAMMA works.

Thanks again guys, I'll be ordering a GRAMMA from Amazon. I can't wait to receive my LMF-1 Plus. I have an old house with hard wood floors, hope the GRAMMA works.

That's where the Gramma shines. Before I moved out to the 'burbs, we were in a NYC apartment with hardwood floors. Both for our own purposes and for our relations with our neighbors, I bought the Gramma to put underneath our SVS PB-12 ISD. The Gramma really did an outstanding job tightening up the bass and keeping the sub from interacting too much with the hardwood floor. You'll definitely find it helpful.

As an aside, last night I grabbed my Gramma from the storage room and put it underneath my EX. We have carpeting so it is not imperative, but as long as I have it already, why not. The wifey hasn't noticed it yet, but knowing her, she will. It looks fine though--just a little higher and of course you can see the Gramma underneath. Not an eyesore though. No chance to test it out with the EX yet, but I am sure it will tighten things up. The Gramma fits the EX well sizewise.

I am a victim of the last LFM sale and am eagerly waiting for notification that my back order plus is available. Been reading about the gramma. I am not sure I will gain as much. I have a 12" stage, the part under the sub is 100lbs sand with 6" of fiberglass insulation, 2 layers of 3/4 plywood, padding and carpet. Do you think I will gain enough to warrant the purchase?

Ok, after further tweaking with my EX's (subs that is) and REW, I'm getting a fairly flat response in each seating position, except for a bit of a bump below 20Hz. That bump drops back off around 13Hz! I didn't expect that much of a room reinforcement, but I'll take it! To be sure the measurements translated to real output I could hear/feel, I ran some very slow sweeps down to 15Hz from a CD and was enjoying the feeling deep down.

I have the subs sitting on their disks on ceramic tile floor which sits on concrete. I thought about the Gramma, but might try a piece of dense (berber) carpet under each first. I don't have any vibrations coming through the floor, so a Gramma really won't do much for me, I don't think. I also have the subs up next to a wall and couch (and behind a couch for the 2nd unit) without having to worry about where the port is and driver is. The down firing & down ported feature was a good selling point for me.

Guys (& gals) these subs really are amazing. For their cost, to get that deep and still handle up above well, I'm impressed. I know others subs out there are as good and likely better, but not for this cost, imho.

Personally I would like to see some objective measurement data documenting EXACTLY what the Gramma is accomplishing before I shelled out 50 dollars for it, or 100 for me in my dual EX setup.

While I appreciate the fact that folks feel their bass is "punchy" etc, who is to say this has anything to do with the Gramma, as opposed to simply having to do with raising the sub off the carpet or hardwood floor a couple of inches? You can make some legs extensions far cheaper than the cost of a Gramma :) and they will look better.

And, to me, for those of us without a dedicated HT room and who are using the EX especially as an end table for GAF/WAF reasons, sorry but the Gramma is dfinitely an eyesore.

I have hardwood floors and I'm all ears if someone can provide objective response data to show an improvement. I can't even find that on their website which is interesting to me although I may be missing it.

Until then color me a non believer ;)

ResIpsa,

Anything you'd want to read about the Gramma/Subdude would be in the following thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=644330

Im also on hardwood and get no vibration whatsoever. I'd be interested in getting a gramma but my wife will veto that once she sees how tall it makes the sub and the fact that it will take away the sub looking like furniture.

Any other ideas on how to get the gramma effect without the gramma :)

ResIpsa,

Anything you'd want to read about the Gramma/Subdude would be in the following thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=644330

Thank you sir.

Im also on hardwood and get no vibration whatsoever. I'd be interested in getting a gramma but my wife will veto that once she sees how tall it makes the sub and the fact that it will take away the sub looking like furniture.

Any other ideas on how to get the gramma effect without the gramma :)

Sanding sponges work excellent for isolation purposes and typcially are around 1" thick. One of these slid back from each corner of the sub so they can't be seen may satisfy both your needs. Obviously measures may need to be taken to protect surfaces in contact with.

Sanding sponges work excellent for isolation purposes and typcially are around 1" thick. One of these slid back from each corner of the sub so they can't be seen may satisfy both your needs. Obviously measures may need to be taken to protect surfaces in contact with.

I was even thinking of full sheet 36"x48" of rubatex 1" thick for about 40 dollars.
You could do all your speakers. ;)

Just received my Compact last night (ordered on Sunday evening). I had no idea it was coming cause I never received an email with tracking info. I was gonna call Outlaw today to see what's up, but no need now! They do a nice packing job.
Guys, I'm not a 'phile when it comes to HT, just an average user. I've checked through this thread and others, have some questions. If you could provide any help I'd really appreciate it, even if to point me somewhere else.
Setup
Room: 25' x 18', but the viewing/listening setup is about half of this (12' x 18').
Fronts + 2 Surrounds: Infinity P362
Center: Infinity PC350
Receiver: 6yr old Kenwood (will be upgrading to Denon 1909 in next 2-5 months)
Sub: Outlaw LFM-1 Compact, sitting on carpet.

Again, I'm an average user and don't want to get into tweaking, just want a nice
listening experience. I'd be willing to do the SPL meter setup if it will really make a noticeable difference, but don't want to have to do the BFD/REW setup stuff.
Q1. Crossover switch is labeled 'Out/In'. I'm assuming this means OUTBOARD (internal crossover is off) vs INBOARD (internal crossover is ON). This should be a no brainer, but just want to make sure since manual talks about Crossover Bypass as off/on versus Out/In. My receiver does not have an internal crossover, that I'm aware of, so I'm setting this to IN.
Q2. For crossover point, manual says to set it initially to the +/- 3db of my fronts, which is 38Hz. So I'm setting this to 40 Hz to start out with. My receiver doesn't have a way to set an internal crossover, just allows me to set front speakers LARGE or NORMAL, so I'm not sure how it handles the crossover, if it does.
Q3. Volume/Gain knob. I'm setting this to halfway point. Not sure where it should be set. Is this where the SPL meter would do me justice?
Q4. Phase. Currently set to 0. Sounds like this is set based on what you hear. How would I know if I need to set it to 180.
Q5. When doing the test tone check from my receiver to set the dB level for each speaker, should I have the sub crossover set to highest? If I don't, and leave it at 40Hz, I don't hear much of a noise.

I've done some listening to The Matrix (I don't have a lot of movies), but wasn't getting the wow affects yet. I know I don't have it tweaked in quite yet. I know it will take some time, so please offer whatever suggestions you have to get this audiophile noob going. I want to find that wow affect soon.

jjinwa

Where are you located?

jjinwa

Where are you located?

Why the question? Because of the speedy delivery? I'm in Vancouver WA.

If you could provide any help I'd really appreciate it, even if to point me somewhere else.
jjinwa - let's see what we can do to help.

First, check out the first post in this thread for links to subwoofer setup guides/advice which should address most of your questions:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=824554

I would highly recommend picking up an SPL meter and a tripod.

BTW, what is your Kenwood receiver's model#? There might be more info to help with the speaker/sub settings if we can find the manual here:
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Support/Home_Electronics_Owners_Manuals/

Also, according to posted specs, the Compact only goes down to 25Hz, so if you have the crossover set at 40Hz, you're only getting a small frequency band playing through the sub and likely not much impact. You'll want to see if you can set the crossover to 80Hz.

[QUOTE=ajstan99;15818193]jjinwa - let's see what we can do to help.
BTW, what is your Kenwood receiver's model#? There might be more info to help with the speaker/sub settings if we can find the manual here:
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/Support/Home_Electronics_Owners_Manuals/QUOTE]

Kenwood VR-407. I have the manual as well and there's no crossover info, so I'm not sure how it handles that part.

Thanks for the Audio 101 link. Yeah, I realized later that 40Hz was kinda low, I got a bit confused about the proper setting, especially after reading the Compact manual.

Hey just to keep people up to date here. Craigsub is doing his day by day review of the EX sub here: http://tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547

Sounds like the EX is moving up the ladder!

Just received my Compact last night (ordered on Sunday evening). I had no idea it was coming cause I never received an email with tracking info. I was gonna call Outlaw today to see what's up, but no need now! They do a nice packing job.
Guys, I'm not a 'phile when it comes to HT, just an average user. I've checked through this thread and others, have some questions. If you could provide any help I'd really appreciate it, even if to point me somewhere else.
Setup
Room: 25' x 18', but the viewing/listening setup is about half of this (12' x 18').
Fronts + 2 Surrounds: Infinity P362
Center: Infinity PC350
Receiver: 6yr old Kenwood (will be upgrading to Denon 1909 in next 2-5 months)
Sub: Outlaw LFM-1 Compact, sitting on carpet.

Again, I'm an average user and don't want to get into tweaking, just want a nice
listening experience. I'd be willing to do the SPL meter setup if it will really make a noticeable difference, but don't want to have to do the BFD/REW setup stuff.
Q1. Crossover switch is labeled 'Out/In'. I'm assuming this means OUTBOARD (internal crossover is off) vs INBOARD (internal crossover is ON). This should be a no brainer, but just want to make sure since manual talks about Crossover Bypass as off/on versus Out/In. My receiver does not have an internal crossover, that I'm aware of, so I'm setting this to IN.
Q2. For crossover point, manual says to set it initially to the +/- 3db of my fronts, which is 38Hz. So I'm setting this to 40 Hz to start out with. My receiver doesn't have a way to set an internal crossover, just allows me to set front speakers LARGE or NORMAL, so I'm not sure how it handles the crossover, if it does.
Q3. Volume/Gain knob. I'm setting this to halfway point. Not sure where it should be set. Is this where the SPL meter would do me justice?
Q4. Phase. Currently set to 0. Sounds like this is set based on what you hear. How would I know if I need to set it to 180.
Q5. When doing the test tone check from my receiver to set the dB level for each speaker, should I have the sub crossover set to highest? If I don't, and leave it at 40Hz, I don't hear much of a noise.

I've done some listening to The Matrix (I don't have a lot of movies), but wasn't getting the wow affects yet. I know I don't have it tweaked in quite yet. I know it will take some time, so please offer whatever suggestions you have to get this audiophile noob going. I want to find that wow affect soon.

Odds are, "normal" on your receiver sets a crossover, as large means you are running the mains at full range.

So ... use normal. Turn the Outlaw crossover off.

Next, turn the volume on the Outlaw to about 10 o'clock. Play some bass heavy music, and listen. Adjust subwoofer volume until it sounds good to you.

Without getting all geeky on you, that's a pretty good place to start.

We can fine tune from there.

Thanks craigsub. That makes sense that my receiver does have a crossover if it also has the option of LARGE and NORMAL. I just seem to get lost in all the stuff I'm reading.
Even though I'm not a complete bonehead, sometimes it helps me to have things written in black/white. I guess if I had more knowledge in the HT arena, I'd be able to infer these things rather than have them spelled out. Oh well, maybe I'll get there someday. :-)
Thanks to you and ajstan99 for your help!

Hey just to keep people up to date here. Craigsub is doing his day by day review of the EX sub here: http://tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?t=547

Sounds like the EX is moving up the ladder!

No surprise there. I knew Craig just had to get the EX properly tweaked and incorporated into his system to see what it could do.

Separately, I played a little music last night on my newly GRAMMA'd EX, and I now remember why I had my old SVS on the GRAMMA. First, with my existing sub settings and levels, I said "where did the bass go". The GRAMMA does such a good job at what it does, that it allows you (well, requires you) to turn up the bass. Yeah, not such a bad thing for us bassheads.

So a quick turn on the gain knob, and there was my bass again, nice and loud, and deep. It was a definite improvement from what I was hearing from the EX beforehand, which was great to begin with. I need to double-check where I ended up with an SPL and test tones, but I think I was close to proper calibration.

Thanks craigsub. That makes sense that my receiver does have a crossover if it also has the option of LARGE and NORMAL. I just seem to get lost in all the stuff I'm reading.
Even though I'm not a complete bonehead, sometimes it helps me to have things written in black/white. I guess if I had more knowledge in the HT arena, I'd be able to infer these things rather than have them spelled out. Oh well, maybe I'll get there someday. :-)
Thanks to you and ajstan99 for your help!

Every receiver has its own terminology in the menu - most call the speakers "small" or "large", which is a little more intuitive than is large and normal.

Please, try out the simple approach I posted last night, and let us know what you think of the SQ.

This is a great group of guys in this thread, once you get "pretty good" going, they will help you fine tune to GREAT. :)

No surprise there. I knew Craig just had to get the EX properly tweaked and incorporated into his system to see what it could do.

Separately, I played a little music last night on my newly GRAMMA'd EX, and I now remember why I had my old SVS on the GRAMMA. First, with my existing sub settings and levels, I said "where did the bass go". The GRAMMA does such a good job at what it does, that it allows you (well, requires you) to turn up the bass. Yeah, not such a bad thing for us bassheads.

So a quick turn on the gain knob, and there was my bass again, nice and loud, and deep. It was a definite improvement from what I was hearing from the EX beforehand, which was great to begin with. I need to double-check where I ended up with an SPL and test tones, but I think I was close to proper calibration.

Phantom Menace was a blast to watch again. There is no way to do any sort of a ratings like we used to do on subs - too many of the old crew have moved away. But there is no doubt the Outlaws are solidly in the pack with the best of the 12 inch subwoofers we have tested here.

They may actually be the finest 12 inch subwoofer I have heard outside the Fathom 112 ... this weekend will see a lot of additional movies watched.

I need some help on placement. I have now received the 2 LFM-1 EXs and set them up behind leather chairs which are the primary listening points.

I took a few pictures to give you some idea of how big these things are, how they look and where I currently have them.

This coming week, I am set to borrow a Radio Shack SPL meter. Currently, the gain is set at 5 and the output from my 1014 Pioneer receiver is at 0.0 db.

Also, you can see my recent purchase of the AV123 Rockets: 850s in the front, 450s in the rear and the 200 center channel under the TV.

.. and a few more photos. The last one showing my toes is a POV shot!

By the way, how do I embed a picture into the post rather than a link?

Whoa, finest 12" - what do you mean by that!!! What about versus a 13" or 15", what are you trying to say?!?!?!...ok, just poking fun. Glad you're getting them dialed in.

I've been further tweaking as well and can't decide if I like the extra depth of one setting (down to ~ 14Hz, but they make odd sounds with big waterfall scenes when played loud - likely the driver "complaining"), or the extra punch and physical feel above 20Hz of another setting (but measurements say only down to 17Hz or so - can't get hung up on measurements, when my ears tell me otherwise). Guess that's the dilemma every tweaker on here has!

Initially I was a little underwhelmed, then after some changes, was overwhelmed, now back to a more level emotion. But I'm missing some mid bass I think. I don't have the mid punch I used to have with my old sub...my brother-in-law (very good in pro sound) also commented on this. I've changed my mains (tower bi-polars) back to large and are now playing "full range". This seemed to give me back a bit of mid bass, but I know I'm pushing the receiver's amps not running the full spectrum. What's y'all's take on running the mains (and center possibly) full range? This does make for a more difficult integration at times. I guess that's why Hsu offers their Mid Bass Module?

Ok, back downstairs to the subs...quietly...until my niece wakes up!

Quick question. I have a Denon AVR-3808 and use Audyssey EQ, when my LMF-1 Plus arrives do I bypass the X-over in the Plus so I can use Audyssey? I'm thinking this is the correct way.

Why the question? Because of the speedy delivery? I'm in Vancouver WA.

Yes that is why I asked. My Compact shows it still in Bloomington CA (in transit) since Fed 11 on the Fedex page. This waiting is killing me!

Can any new (or old) Compact owner post thoughts on their subs.

Quick question. I have a Denon AVR-3808 and use Audyssey EQ, when my LMF-1 Plus arrives do I bypass the X-over in the Plus so I can use Audyssey? I'm thinking this is the correct way.

Yes. This is what most people do. No need for the xover on the sub if your controlling everything from your receiver..

I have a couple MBM's for sale for anyone interested. :)

http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showthread.php?p=37810&posted=1#post37810

Hey weverb,

Just curious, why are you selling the MBM's?

Hey weverb,

Just curious, why are you selling the MBM's?

WAF, bills, and DIY route.

My wife recently acquired some new medical bills and I have persued a different route.

I'm sorry to hear that, weverb :(. Best wishes to you and your wife. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

I'm sorry to hear that, weverb :(. Best wishes to you and your wife. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

Thanks a lot for the kind words. I will also be selling my EX soon too.

My wife recently acquired some new medical bills and I have persued a different route.

weverb - where do you live ? How much are you looking to sell them and the EX for ? Maybe we can help you sell the units ... :)

weverb - where do you live ? Maybe we can help you sell the units ... :)

Thanks craigsub... I am located in central Florida. :)

I edited too slowly with the how much question ... :o

I edited too slowly with the how much question ... :o

I am asking $400 shipped and Payapled for each MBM.

The EX I was thinking maybe $450?

I am asking $400 shipped and Payapled for each MBM.

The EX I was thinking maybe $450?

Sounds like a good deal for shipped pricing...

:pYes that is why I asked. My Compact shows it still in Bloomington CA (in transit) since Fed 11 on the Fedex page. This waiting is killing me!

Can any new (or old) Compact owner post thoughts on their subs.

Where are all the Compact owners ?

:p

Where are all the Compact owners ?

They're stuffed into a very small space...hard to get out....give em time! :D

Yes that is why I asked. My Compact shows it still in Bloomington CA (in transit) since Fed 11 on the Fedex page. This waiting is killing me!

Can any new (or old) Compact owner post thoughts on their subs.

At least your getting yours my reservation order on the LFM-1 Plus is over 30 days! Hope that makes you feel better I'm the one that's dying over here.

:p

Where are all the Compact owners ?

I think most everyone go's for the Plus or EX for the sub sonic FX which the compact just can't do.

I think most everyone go's for the Plus or EX for the sub sonic FX which the compact just can't do.


I'm hoping in a 11x21x8 dedicated H/T the Compact will do just fine.

I'm hoping in a 11x21x8 dedicated H/T the Compact will do just fine.
Without ever hearing a Compact. I can tell you ime a SVS Pb10 for HT for my needs isn't enough sub for a room that size. For extreme lows. It's fine if you don't like wall shaking no port noise levels. my room is @ 14x20 x8 that opens to a hall. Your needs maybe different.

Without ever hearing a Compact. I can tell you ime a SVS Pb10 for HT for my needs isn't enough sub for a room that size. For extreme lows. It's fine if you don't like wall shaking no port noise levels. my room is @ 14x20 x8 that opens to a hall. Your needs maybe different.

My room is enclosed with only a double swing French door as an entrance. The room is completely insulated and is pretty tight. Your room is a bit bigger also approx. one third of my room has an 8 inch riser for the rear seating area so the entire height isn't 8 feet.

The Compact is replacing a 16 yr old Velodyne F 1000 so I'm expecting a big jump in performance.

My room is completely enclosed with only a double swing French door as an entrance. The room is completely insulated and is pretty tight. Your room is a bit bigger also approx. one third of my room has an 8 inch riser for the rear seating area so the entire height isn't 8 feet.

Also the Compact is replacing a 16 yr old Velodyne F 1000.
Yeah like I said it's maybe enough for you. That was just my $0.02. My room is a little bigger. Not sealed. I like loud levels. I belive a Pb10 can do alot more in the HT duty that a Compact purly on specs and box size. Im my room 2 Pb10 isn't enough for what I want. I have 2 Pb10. I also Run a Valor in the same setup. Wait till you hook it up I'm sure it will be a big improvement from the old Velodyne.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06121.jpg

Well, after a couple of days of moving these things around, tweaking here, tweaking there, running Audyssey, running it again, and again, and moving them, and listening......

I think I have achieved a happy place with my dual EX's .:)

One thing that wasn't clear to me (cause I'm kind of thick like that sometimes) is whether when running audyssey both subs should be on at that same time. I can only say when I ran it with both of them on I wasn't satisfied with the results. I'm done for awhile until I can run REW and see what it looks like, MultiEqXT takes 45 minutes each time through and I'm sick of moving the mike around:D

To my ears they sound great. They're set up in ME mode and at about three on the dial and even at that right now I'm sitting upstairs typing this and the volume is low on the tv, but whatever just happenned down on the show they're watching on the lower floor caused the floor to vibrate all the way up here, and **** is rattling on the second floor. :eek:

Yeah like I said it's maybe enough for you. That was just my $0.02. My room is a little bigger. Not sealed. I like loud levels. I belive a Pb10 can do alot more in the HT duty that a Compact purly on specs and box size. Im my room 2 Pb10 isn't enough for what I want. I have 2 Pb10. I also Run a Valor in the same setup. Wait till you hook it up I'm sure it will be a big improvement from the old Velodyne.

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f98/ironmike86/setup/DSC06121.jpg

I can't imagine having 3 subs in my room......:eek: The Compact should be delivered early this week, I will play with it and if it is not big enough I will then take advantage of the 30 day return period.

At least your getting yours my reservation order on the LFM-1 Plus is over 30 days! Hope that makes you feel better I'm the one that's dying over here.

Don't remind me, I'm waiting for the same sub ;)

I sold my Velodyne ULD-15 a week ago. I'm hoping my Plus gets here in time for Quantum Of Solace on Blu-ray!

Well, after a couple of days of moving these things around, tweaking here, tweaking there, running Audyssey, running it again, and again, and moving them, and listening......

I think I have achieved a happy place with my dual EX's .:)

One thing that wasn't clear to me (cause I'm kind of thick like that sometimes) is whether when running audyssey both subs should be on at that same time. I can only say when I ran it with both of them on I wasn't satisfied with the results. I'm done for awhile until I can run REW and see what it looks like, MultiEqXT takes 45 minutes each time through and I'm sick of moving the mike around:D

To my ears they sound great. They're set up in ME mode and at about three on the dial and even at that right now I'm sitting upstairs typing this and the volume is low on the tv, but whatever just happenned down on the show they're watching on the lower floor caused the floor to vibrate all the way up here, and **** is rattling on the second floor. :eek:

In the audyssey thread dual subs you want everything set up the same even the volume control, phase angle etc. The crossover I would set too off and let audyssey do its thing. Distance from microphone is also important and has to be equal from both subs. Use a spl meter like the radio shack to set volumes the same around 80 decibels with source material . Then run audyssey with both subs hooked up. Here is the thread with more detailed reading.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14456895#post14456895

I can't imagine having 3 subs in my room......:eek: The Compact should be delivered early this week, I will play with it and if it is not big enough I will then take advantage of the 30 day return period.

All depends on your listening level. But your room is sealed also. That can make a big difference compared to my room. But I like to game and when watching movies I like my room to shake. If you liked the Velo and thought that was enough then Compact should make you happy. But then you will always wonder what would the Plus/EX do:eek: make sure to post how you like the sub.

Hey guys - I was supposed to take some measurements this weekend. My wife's new cleaning lady decided to organize all my test gear. She organized it so well that no one knows where it is.

She is due here tomorrow ... it will be explained that my theater room does not need a feminine touch. :D

Hey guys - I was supposed to take some measurements this weekend. My wife's new cleaning lady decided to organize all my test gear. She organized it so well that no one knows where it is.

She is due here tomorrow ... it will be explained that my theater room does not need a feminine touch. :D

My wife refuses to clean our set-up. She is too afraid to touch it. :D Now if I could only get our kids to stop touching the lcd screen! :mad:

Hello fellow Outlaw owners.

I just joined the fraternity. Received my LFM-1 EX this past Thursday. Has anyone noticed the identifying labels in the owners manual. It labels the phase switch as the crossover, and the crossover switch as the phase.

Does any know which is correct? Are they mislabeled in the manual, or are they mislabeled on the back of the sub?

I'm loving the sub so far, so much so that I've ordered the LFM-1+ also.

Interesting - I didn't read the manual. I'd imagine the back of the sub is correct. There are a few mistakes in the manual.

My wife refuses to clean our set-up. She is too afraid to touch it. :D Now if I could only get our kids to stop touching the lcd screen! :mad:

Considering $1700 worth of Microphone, Calibrator and USB preamp are missing, I am not too happy.

I expect all three to be returned to the normal spot when I arrive home tonight. :eek:

Interesting - I didn't read the manual. I'd imagine the back of the sub is correct. There are a few mistakes in the manual.

Manual ? What's a manual ? :D

Considering $1700 worth of Microphone, Calibrator and USB preamp are missing, I am not too happy.

:eek: Holy crap!

Now I know why I try to keep everything out of sight and difficult to get to!

Try movie "Pulse" to see if your sub have any issues.
First, pardon my English. It's not my first language.
I've been owning Outlaw LFM EX for just over a week and played several movies including KungFu Panda, Master and Commanders, Dark Knight and etc.
I was very satisfied until I played the movie "Pulse" last night.
When I played the scene at the computer server room(around 1hr 13min in the movie), I heard some rattle noise. I thought one of my kids' toys scattered on the hardwood floor around the subwoofer was making the noise. However it's not from the toys but from the subwoofer itself.
So I turned the sub upside down and played the scene a few times to figure out where the noise is coming from. The noise was coming from one of the port. I think there are some small gap between the port and the cabinet letting the air leak. So it was not rattle noise but hissing? (I'm not sure if it's correct word of describing it) noise. I tried to block the gap with a small rubber strip temporarily and it greatly reduced the noise but once I removed it, the noise came back.
I think people who own and want to test their subwoofer should try this scene in "Pulse". There is no other sound but this very low bass, pulse like sound, playing for long enough. So if something's wrong with your sub, you will be able to notice it immediately.
I'm going to give Outlaw a call and see how good their service is. I hope I don't have to pay any shipping to get replacement or repair.
I thought I finaly completed my HT system to the level I wanted but it's not until I resolve this issue….sad….

BTW I’m coming from Bic H-100. Let me tell the owners of the H-100 this. Outlaw is definitly a better sub. It's tight, goes deeper but H-100 is not a slouch either. I just wished musical performance were a little better and that's why I replaced it with Outlaw.

Now if I could only get our kids to stop touching the lcd screen! :mad:

Let me know if you work that one out b/c I have the same issue. :mad:

They don't really mess with anything else since my youngest cranked the volume knob on my AVR up enough to get a healthy dose of terror. That was the only time seeing my children crying has made me happy. I know, that's terrible, but they now associate the AVR with fear. :cool: The TV doesn't scare them though. It's too friendly, I guess.

She is due here tomorrow ... it will be explained that my theater room does not need a feminine touch. :D

I would also have to make it clear that if she does it again, you're going to have to go Donald Trump on her and give her the old "You're Fired".

I finally opened up the GRAMMA I received from Amazon last Thursday and tried it out. I'm not yet fully-equipped to run REW, but I decided to do a quick A/B test with the "Superman's spaceship crash-landing in Smallville" scene from the PCM/TrueHD Superman Returns Blu-ray.

The GRAMMA reduced SPL by 1dB, so I increased the volume on the sub to compensate. (It's at or around a "3" now.) I didn't notice a significant decrease in house rattles, but the bass seemed to go a bit deeper and have a little more punch to it. (All of which, honestly, could have been due to the increased volume.) Mind you, I still haven't had a whole lot of listening time with it (maybe an hour, two hours tops with demo-worthy LFE material), so I don't think I've completely broken it in yet. The bass also did seem to be a bit more localizable than I remembered it being before, probably because it's now a couple inches off the ground. I watched the airplane rescue scene from SR then watched the first half hour of The Dark Knight, and the Plus definitely hits harder than my old sub, but the improvements offered by the GRAMMA are more difficult for me to detect - at least in my particular room/setup. I didn't do any more A/B tests because I didn't feel like lifting and re-positioning my sub any more. :)

The noise was coming from one of the port. I think there are some small gap between the port and the cabinet letting the air leak.

That scene in Pulse is very demanding on all subs.:eek:

I'm sure you were hearing "Chuffing" or port noise. Set your sub to Max Extension mode and play the scene again with a softer volume and the noise should go away. Gradually turn up the volume on your AVR and see when you start to hear it again.

BTW, Pulse got me thinking about multiple subs...:D

Does any know which is correct? Are they mislabeled in the manual, or are they mislabeled on the back of the sub?

The manual is wrong. Several owners here and at Outlaw's forum have informed the Outlaws about the mistakes.:(

That scene will bring a lot of subs to their knees. The EX should play it just fine in extension mode though. Larry is probably right. It's probably just port chuffing. I sometimes get chuffing in max output mode on scenes like that, but I switch it to extension mode, and it's sound fine.

That's interesting. One would think the chuffing would increase in max extension mode due to one port being plugged. That's a lot of air to pass through just one port! :)

That's interesting. One would think the chuffing would increase in max extension mode due to one port being plugged. That's a lot of air to pass through just one port! :)
My thought too. My friend has a HSU 2.3 and chuffing is evident, if at all, in more demanding scenes ME mode. I would follow the same logic as above, one ports (like your nose when one side is plugged up:D) is going to have a harder time moving the same amount of air as two open ports.

Thanks for all your reply and advice.
Sub was already in Max Ext mode with the plug and the noise was coming from where the plug was. So I thought it might be loose plug rubbing the inside of port.
I re-plugged it firmly to the port again. Still same noise. I put my ears close to each port back and forth. It seemed the noise was from where one of the port edge interfaces with the cabinet surface. Noise was from only one of the port, not both.
I switched the plug to the other side and also tried switching to Max output mode, same noise on same port. I think the port is not properly sealed to the cabinet.
Anyway I was able to talk to Tech Support person at Outlaw, Scott. He is going to ship replacement sub tomorrow with no extra cost. Great customer service. I hope new one won't have any issues. It's a huge stuff to send back and I have to take it to local fedex office. Unfortunately, there is no pick-up service.
Again for those who haven't played "Pulse", try it to see what your sub is capable of and to see if there is any problem with it. I'm glad I did.

weverb, you're right. Not enough coffee in me yet. I get the modes swapped sometimes.

m9610172, glad they are taking care of customers. I just wonder where the replacement sub is coming from. I called and spoke with them today and approximate wait is 35 more days for those that ordered when they had the sale and ran out. They must of kept a few subs back just for replacement.

:p

Where are all the Compact owners ?

Well, I'm still around, but poking my head around at hometheatershack in the REW forum. Also in the speakers forum here.

I dunno, guys. I can't see why anyone would need more bass than what you get in the Compact (unless you want something deeper). My room is open on the right, partly open in the front, 18' wide x 13' deep x 9' high. Speakers on either side of the opening in the front.

The LFM1-c is less than 1/2...and there is too much bass, according to the EQ I've been doing.

I think if I went over to any of your places, running the EX's, I guess my heart might actually stop its beat and pick up yours ;)

Hello fellow Outlaw owners.

I just joined the fraternity. Received my LFM-1 EX this past Thursday. Has anyone noticed the identifying labels in the owners manual. It labels the phase switch as the crossover, and the crossover switch as the phase.

Does any know which is correct? Are they mislabeled in the manual, or are they mislabeled on the back of the sub?

I'm loving the sub so far, so much so that I've ordered the LFM-1+ also.

There are multiple typos and incorrect numbers (eg range of crossover) in the Compact manual as well. I would think this would be embarrassing to the company, but apparently not. The manual still says version 1.0

Well, I'm still around, but poking my head around at hometheatershack in the REW forum. Also in the speakers forum here.

I dunno, guys. I can't see why anyone would need more bass than what you get in the Compact (unless you want something deeper). My room is open on the right, partly open in the front, 18' wide x 13' deep x 9' high. Speakers on either side of the opening in the front.

The LFM1-c is less than 1/2...and there is too much bass, according to the EQ I've been doing.

I think if I went over to any of your places, running the EX's, I guess my heart might actually stop its beat and pick up yours ;)
I'm with you on that, NCDave - which is why I bought a compact ... which I just received a couple days ago. It looks great, but testing will have to wait until I get a new receiver. My old one didn't survive our move of house and had to be euthanized! ;)

Any way, I'm anxious to hear my new set up, which includes the compact as well as some new Mirage omnipolar speakers. I'm positive I will be very happy with this, as I'm upgrading from ... my 13 year old TV set, with no other sound system (only used my receiver for music). Can't wait to finish the buying so I can start the enjoying! :D

Just received the Compact, for me it's works great, watched Kung Fu Panda last night, loved it. I have an average size room and it shakes it really well, this movie definitely tests a sub. I must say however this is coming from a guy who had a HTIB sub. It's all perspective, I'm sure that if I had heard LFM- Plus or EX, I might not be satisfied. But for me the size of the sub (my wife is great when it's comes to my little hobby, but size was a factor) and the price was right (upper limit of my budget). Two other quick thoughts 1) FYI these subs look awesome and go perfectly with the C series speakers from Energy and 2) customer service with Outlaw Audio was great, I had a little debit card issue and every time I had trouble I would deal with the same professional lady.

Good stuff gentlemen, this thread really helped make up my mind with this purchase.

Just received the Compact, for me it's works great, watched Kung Fu Panda last night, loved it. I have an average size room and it shakes it really well, this movie definitely tests a sub. I must say however this is coming from a guy who had a HTIB sub. It's all perspective, I'm sure that if I had heard LFM- Plus or EX, I might not be satisfied. But for me the size of the sub (my wife is great when it's comes to my little hobby, but size was a factor) and the price was right (upper limit of my budget). Two other quick thoughts 1) FYI these subs look awesome and go perfectly with the C series speakers from Energy and 2) customer service with Outlaw Audio was great, I had a little debit card issue and every time I had trouble I would deal with the same professional lady.

Good stuff gentlemen, this thread really helped make up my mind with this purchase.
The only way you will contiune to like it is to stay off the sub forum.:D
Then you will always be happy:)

There are multiple typos and incorrect numbers (eg range of crossover) in the Compact manual as well. I would think this would be embarrassing to the company, but apparently not. The manual still says version 1.0

Thanks for clearing that up for me guys. Its a minor issue, and hopefully they get it corrected. I am truly enjoying the performance of this sub. Purchased it on a whim, and I'm glad I did. This thread has a nice spirit also.

nelson57, marin25, hanesian, NCDave thanks for the responses. It's good to hear some positive comments on the Compact. Looks like my Compact will be delivered tomorrow. Hopefully I will be as satisfied as you all.

Received my Compact last Thursday and I posted a couple of questions. Thanks again for the responses.
Looked for WOTW on DVD this weekend but couldn't find it. Wife and I ended up watching the new The Day The Earth Stood Still last night. Awesome LFE. The scene where the alien craft landed on earth, but still covered in mist, with the humans walking up on it, but not seeing it, then one of the characters said "Did you feel that", and my wife answered back, "Yes, I did". Priceless! Well, worth $319 to be exact. It felt like the alien craft had landed outside our house. Had a picture on an opposite wall rattling. Loved it.
Still need to tweak the sub and find the right spot in the living room, but I'm really liking it so far!

That's interesting. One would think the chuffing would increase in max extension mode due to one port being plugged. That's a lot of air to pass through just one port! :)

My thought too. My friend has a HSU 2.3 and chuffing is evident, if at all, in more demanding scenes ME mode. I would follow the same logic as above, one ports (like your nose when one side is plugged up:D) is going to have a harder time moving the same amount of air as two open ports.

weverb, you're right. Not enough coffee in me yet. I get the modes swapped sometimes.

I first tested this scene about a year ago with my original LFM-1 Plus and I thought the sub was going to walk out of the room.:eek: This scene was one of the reasons why I purchased a second LFM-1 Plus. From my very bad memory:eek:, ME sounded better than MO due to the 15 - 20Hz frequency and 2 subs sounded better than one sub for this scene.

I love to test and will set up a demo on this scene with all the different configurations and see how bad my memory truly is.:o:):eek:.

Below is the info on Pulse:

"Pulse" (2006) HD-DVD DD+ TrueHD http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/images/smilies/5stars.gif
1. Chap 1 (0:00:04) WaterFall (http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm111/lfeman/pulsechap100004.jpg)
2. Chap 15 (1:10:47)
3. Chap 15 (1:11:03)
4. Chap 15 (1:11:58) 15-20 Hz PLAY @ OWN RISK! WaterFall (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v24/weezR/Waterfall%20SPL/Pulse_ch15_1-1.jpg)
5. Chap 15 (1:15:09) WaterFall (http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm111/lfeman/pulsechap1511509.jpg)
6. Chap 15 (1:17:06) WaterFall (http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm111/lfeman/pulsechap1511706.jpg)
7. Chap 16 (1:27:46) WaterFall (http://i294.photobucket.com/albums/mm111/lfeman/pulsechap1612746.jpg)

The only way you will contiune to like it is to stay off the sub forum.:D
Then you will always be happy:)

Very, very true...:)

I love to test and will set up a demo on this scene with all the different configurations and see how bad my memory truly is.

I am glad to see I am not the only one! :) Can't wait to read your results. They are always unbiassed and entertaining. :D

Got my Compact today. Some initial thoughts........

1. The unit was packaged very well....double boxed, cloth cover on the sub, corner protectors.

2. The unit came in perfect shape...no marks or blemishes.

3. The Compact is a good looking sub...if subs can look good!

4. Outlaw subs are made in CHINA!! :eek: I didn't know that.

5. The unit is smaller than I expected.

6. My Compact stands exactly 2 inches off the carpet with the legs on and discs used.

7. The Compact weight on the web site lists it as 38 lbs but shipping weight is 51 lbs. Something isn't right. There is NO WAY the packaging weights 13lbs.

8. What position do most of you place the phase switch?

9. The Compact replaced a Velodyne F 1000. Anyone want to buy a perfect showroom condition Velodyne F 1000? This sub looks like it came out of the box today brand new!!!!

10. The real test comes tonight. I'm going to watch the Dark Knight to see what this thing can do.

I am glad to see I am not the only one! :) Can't wait to read your results. They are always unbiassed and entertaining. :D

Pulse Unrated HD-DVD DD 5.1 True HD
Chapter 15 (01:11:49 to 01:14:00)

Onkyo 805 AVR
True HD Listening Mode
LNF: OFF (Dynamic Range Compression)

RS Analog Meter: C weighted/Slow.
Measured with REW & corrected w/BFD (6 active PEQ filters).
All 4 subs (2 EX & 2 +) set to 3.5 for volume.
Individual subs leveled to 75dB producing 85dB with AVR's test tone.
All 4 subs nearfield.

OK, here we go:

1) Master Volume set to -25dB from reference "0". (perfect setting for the sub sensitive wife or friends).:rolleyes::rolleyes:

-no port noise at LP.
-pulsing 84-88dB on RS meter.
-zero visceral experience.

2) MV set to -20dB from reference. (the setting you wish you could start at with the wife watching).:rolleyes:

-no port noise at LP
-room starts to become "active" (found some new rattles to take care of).
-visceral experience starting to have a "pulse".:D
-pulsing 88-92dB on RS meter.

3) MV set to -15dB from reference (the wife & kids at the mall setting).:p

-port noise is noticeable from the LFM-1 Plus subs.
-my body is starting to vibrate and the room is very active.
-visceral experience is great.
-pulsing 92-96dB on RS meter.

4) MV set to -10dB from reference (the wife & kids not in the same state setting).:p:p

-port noise is very noticeable from all four subs.
-pictures are moving on the walls, glasses are dancing across shelves.
-my skin is crawling like I had 5 shots of espresso.:p
-wife opens the TR door and says "what the hell are you doing?" "Do you want the neighbor to call again".:eek::eek:
-visceral experience is outstanding.
-pulsating 100-102dB with a strong smell in the room from the subs.

There is absolutely no way I'm going louder for fear of arrhythmia. My skin was crawling and I had a serious buzz going on in my ears. I am still "vibrating" 5 minutes later.

At every volume, the LFM-1 Plus was working about twice as hard vs. the EX while in Max Ext (ME) Mode. This scene is a challenge to the LFM-1 Plus. The EX did better with the material and I'm looking froward to craigsub's thoughts on this scene and his pair of EX subs.

Switched all four subs to Max Output (MO) and repeated. For this scene, MO definitely helped curtail the port noise and the SPL output remained the same.

My highly subjective results are::)

MO "sounds" better with a substantial reduction in port noise across all four subs.

ME "feels" better and with the "pulsating" soundtrack, the port noise blends in quite well. A much better visceral experience.

To the members here at AVS who have a large and/or powerful commercial sub, DIY subs or IB builds, this scene has to be NUTS:eek: on your system.

So, I stand corrected, if port noise is bothering you in ME mode, switch to MO mode.:o:o

Larry

Got my Compact today. Some initial thoughts........

4. Outlaw subs are made in CHINA!! :eek: I didn't know that.

Yep...

6. My Compact stands exactly 2 inches off the carpet with the legs on and discs used.

Perfect...

8. What position do most of you place the phase switch?

I started with "0"...

10. The real test comes tonight. I'm going to watch the Dark Knight to see what this thing can do.

Excellent choice!

wife opens the TR door and says "what the hell are you doing?" "Do you want the neighbor to call again".:eek::eek:

Hahahahah... I was laughing so hard I actually teared up!

So, I stand corrected, if port noise is bothering you in ME mode, switch to MO mode.:o:o

:D

Great report Larry! Loved it. I am still :D. I had to read it a couple of times.

port noise is very noticeable from all four subs.

Hey Larry,

Care to try and describe what it sounded like?

Hey Larry,

Care to try and describe what it sounded like?

Well, this is going to be hard:o...I have one LFM-1 Plus stacked on top of another LFM-1 Plus and could hear the top sub first due to it being elevated and firing down onto the plexi-glass top vs. carpet on the other three subs.

The Pulse scene has a "pulsating sound" to it and that can make it difficult to describe...when all four subs kick in at -10dB MV and are contributing with various levels of "port noise", I can "hear" the air movement in the room as well as smell the newness of the inside cabinet:confused:.

Pulse Unrated HD-DVD DD 5.1 True HD
Chapter 15 (01:11:49 to 01:14:00)

Onkyo 805 AVR
True HD Listening Mode
LNF: OFF (Dynamic Range Compression)

RS Analog Meter: C weighted/Slow.
Measured with REW & corrected w/BFD (6 active PEQ filters).
All 4 subs (2 EX & 2 +) set to 3.5 for volume.
Individual subs leveled to 75dB producing 85dB with AVR's test tone.
All 4 subs nearfield.

OK, here we go:

1) Master Volume set to -25dB from reference "0". (perfect setting for the sub sensitive wife or friends).:rolleyes::rolleyes:

-no port noise at LP.
-pulsing 84-88dB on RS meter.
-zero visceral experience.

2) MV set to -20dB from reference. (the setting you wish you could start at with the wife watching).:rolleyes:

-no port noise at LP
-room starts to become "active" (found some new rattles to take care of).
-visceral experience starting to have a "pulse".:D
-pulsing 88-92dB on RS meter.

3) MV set to -15dB from reference (the wife & kids at the mall setting).:p

-port noise is noticeable from the LFM-1 Plus subs.
-my body is starting to vibrate and the room is very active.
-visceral experience is great.
-pulsing 92-96dB on RS meter.

4) MV set to -10dB from reference (the wife & kids not in the same state setting).:p:p

-port noise is very noticeable from all four subs.
-pictures are moving on the walls, glasses are dancing across shelves.
-my skin is crawling like I had 5 shots of espresso.:p
-wife opens the TR door and says "what the hell are you doing?" "Do you want the neighbor to call again".:eek::eek:
-visceral experience is outstanding.
-pulsating 100-102dB with a strong smell in the room from the subs.

There is absolutely no way I'm going louder for fear of arrhythmia. My skin was crawling and I had a serious buzz going on in my ears. I am still "vibrating" 5 minutes later.

At every volume, the LFM-1 Plus was working about twice as hard vs. the EX while in Max Ext (ME) Mode. This scene is a challenge to the LFM-1 Plus. The EX did better with the material and I'm looking froward to craigsub's thoughts on this scene and his pair of EX subs.

Switched all four subs to Max Output (MO) and repeated. For this scene, MO definitely helped curtail the port noise and the SPL output remained the same.

My highly subjective results are::)

MO "sounds" better with a substantial reduction in port noise across all four subs.

ME "feels" better and with the "pulsating" soundtrack, the port noise blends in quite well. A much better visceral experience.

To the members here at AVS who have a large and/or powerful commercial sub, DIY subs or IB builds, this scene has to be NUTS:eek: on your system.

So, I stand corrected, if port noise is bothering you in ME mode, switch to MO mode.:o:o

Larry

Great post Larry. I think we need to designate you the official bass tester, what with your quad subwoofer setup and expertise ;). I've never tried the Pulse scene but I'd be interested to do so at some point. I'm just really reluctant to buy the movie (which I've heard is atrocious) just for the bass scenes.

Your findings make perfect sense. ME mode should have lots of port noise with each sub having only one open port. That's a lot of air sweeping in the 16-20hz range! MO mode likely has virtually no port noise for a couple of reasons. First, two ports are open which doubles the amount of area for air to sweep. Probably even more to the point, however, is that the HP filter of each subwoofer is likely rolling off those upper teen frequencies pretty severely in MO mode. This knocks down the port noise significantly, but it also greatly reduces the signal in those frequencies as well.

I've only had a real issue with port noise with one scene that I've tried so far with my Castle - the Incredible Hulk's sonic cannons scene. The scene contains a very HOT ~13hz signal with virtually no other sounds in the sound track at the same time. This means nothing can "hide" the port noise and it becomes obvious. To experiment, I actually purchased an F-mod 20hz high pass filter to use with the subwoofer to see what effects it might have. According to Chad at Epik, the Castle's amp uses a 12dB/octave high pass at right about 20hz, so the added filter gave me an effective 24dB/octave high pass. The result was that the Castle had no noticeable port noise on that scene with the F-mod, but I could tell with some other demo material that i didn't have quite as much output in the mid-upper teens.

Anyway, thanks again for the writeup, Larry. I always enjoy your posts :).

Stephen

Got my Compact today. Some initial thoughts........



7. The Compact weight on the web site lists it as 38 lbs but shipping weight is 51 lbs. Something isn't right. There is NO WAY the packaging weights 13lbs.



The manual actually states 55lbs! The 38 was for the LFM-2.

Hey, ill take the extra weight!

I have one LFM-1 Plus stacked on top of another LFM-1 Plus and could hear the top sub first due to it being elevated and firing down onto the plexi-glass top vs. carpet on the other three subs.

How about testing with carpet between the subs? Maybe the chuffing will be harder to hear. The carpet won't affect the bass and if this works, you could head over to a carpet store to pick up some cheap remnants in black. Or use several layers of black felt, if that works. Or get some 1" think Styrofoam insulation, cover that with black felt and see what happens.

Here is what the waterfall chart looks like on Pulse:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/pulsescene.jpg

If you look at the graph at the very top, you will see that any subwoofer is trying to reproduce a 15-20 Hz signal which is anywhere from 8 to 15 dB above the relative reference. It's no wonder that even what seems like a moderate level of -10 dB to reference can overdrive the woofer in question.

The manual actually states 55lbs! The 38 was for the LFM-2.

Hey, ill take the extra weight!


The manual is wrong. There is no way the Compact weights 55 lbs.

Here is what the waterfall chart looks like on Pulse:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v171/craigsub/pulsescene.jpg

If you look at the graph at the very top, you will see that any subwoofer is trying to reproduce a 15-20 Hz signal which is anywhere from 8 to 15 dB above the relative reference. It's no wonder that even what seems like a moderate level of -10 dB to reference can overdrive the woofer in question.

Holy :eek:!

The Pulse scene has a "pulsating sound" to it and that can make it difficult to describe...when all four subs kick in at -10dB MV and are contributing with various levels of "port noise", I can "hear" the air movement in the room as well as smell the newness of the inside cabinet:confused:.

Do you hear it in any other movies? It would be cool if you could record it and post it! :)

Well ...I watched a couple of movies last night (Dark Knight and the attack scenes in Pearl Harbor). This sub rocks!!!!! Now I have to put this into perspective because I am coming from using a 16 yr old Velodyne F 1000 that wasn't made for HT but the Compact gave me more than enough bass even at the 10 o'clock volume setting.

My new sub sits in the back corner of a 11x21x8 room on a 8 inch high wood frame riser (platform). The riser is used to elevate the rear seating area above the front seats. The riser is covered with plywood and a thick low pile carpet. The other part of the floor is carpet over concrete. I have the sub 2 inches off the riser using just the supplied carpet spikes, discs and I also used furniture leg carpet protectors. There was no rattles in the room what so ever and no need for a Gramma! The china closet in the room directly above was taking a beating though!!!

I am definitely no sub woofer aficionado but IMHO this sub is perfect for a small to mid size room a bigger sub would blow you out of the room, it would be excessive and a waste of money. I heard sounds from this sub I have never heard before and during the explosions I could feel them. I also played some music today (Eagles new CD) and it sounded fantastic! I am not naive to think this is the best sub in the world, that’s not what I am saying and hope that is not what I am conveying but I stand by my previous statement.

I do have one disappointment and that is that I didn't buy 2 Compacts. Not that I need more bass but I feel that the room isn't completely filled with one and think 2 subs would even things out. So if/when Outlaw has another sale on the Compact they will have a guaranteed purchase waiting, matter of fact if Scott or anyone from Outlaw reads this, PM me and if you offer the same deal ($319.00 + free shipping) I will buy another one right now! Thanks to all who pointed me in Outlaw’s direction I can honestly say they have another satisfied customer.

Scott send me that PM.

FYI, Outlaw is still showing a 45 day wait on the LFM's - i hope progress hasn't stalled on order fulfillments! there's a huge hole in my HT setup, just waiting for my second Outlaw :)

I am definitely no sub woofer aficionado but IMHO this sub is perfect for a small to mid size room a bigger sub would blow you out of the room, it would be excessive and a waste of money. I heard sounds from this sub I have never heard before and during the explosions I could feel them. I also played some music today (Eagles new CD) and it sounded fantastic! I am not naive to think this is the best sub in the world, that’s not what I am saying and hope that is not what I am conveying but I stand by my previous statement.
Glad things are working out for you, steeler. Around here there's no need to defend or explain your impressions of a product that you've used in your own environment. I too like taking smaller steps to better understand and appreciate the incremental steps in quality, but, don't be surprised when you eventually get the urge/need for more. It happens to all of us, regardless of what we have. :)

I do have one disappointment and that is that I didn't buy 2 Compacts. Not that I need more bass but I feel that the room isn't completely filled with one and think 2 subs would even things out.
Wow, that was quick. :D

I am definitely no sub woofer aficionado but IMHO this sub is perfect for a small to mid size room a bigger sub would blow you out of the room, it would be excessive and a waste of money. I heard sounds from this sub I have never heard before and during the explosions I could feel them. I also played some music today (Eagles new CD) and it sounded fantastic! I am not naive to think this is the best sub in the world, that’s not what I am saying and hope that is not what I am conveying but I stand by my previous statement.

I do have one disappointment and that is that I didn't buy 2 Compacts. Not that I need more bass but I feel that the room isn't completely filled with one and think 2 subs would even things out. So if/when Outlaw has another sale on the Compact they will have a guaranteed purchase waiting, matter of fact if Scott or anyone from Outlaw reads this, PM me and if you offer the same deal ($319.00 + free shipping) I will buy another one right now! Thanks to all who pointed me in Outlaw’s direction I can honestly say they have another satisfied customer.

Another happy Outlaw family member! Great to read everything worked out.

Wow, that was quick. :D

I am pretty sure that is the record around this thread for the shortest time to the urge for a second sub: 1 movie + a couple of great scenes from another title.:D:D

How about testing with carpet between the subs? Maybe the chuffing will be harder to hear. The carpet won't affect the bass and if this works, you could head over to a carpet store to pick up some cheap remnants in black. Or use several layers of black felt, if that works. Or get some 1" think Styrofoam insulation, cover that with black felt and see what happens.

Good idea NCDave! I have a remnant left from the wall-to-wall installation and completely forgot about it...Thanks.:)

Do you hear it in any other movies? It would be cool if you could record it and post it! :)

Nope...

After reading Stephen's post, I'm going to dial up IH again.:eek: and I will give it a shot at recording the Pulse scene.

Nope...

After reading Stephen's post, I'm going to dial up IH again.:eek: and I will give it a shot at recording the Pulse scene.

Ok, there's no longer any doubt...you are now the "official" Outlaw subwoofer torture tester :D

Anyway, thanks again for the writeup, Larry. I always enjoy your posts :).

Right back at you, Stephen.:)

Thanks for stopping by with your valuable insight...I always learn something from your posts and I appreciate that you keep this thread on your radar screen.

Just a note. I ordered my LFM Plus on the last day of the sale. It was back ordered with an expected date of 45 days. Well, I was quite shocked when the UPS guy asked me to open the garage for him cause he had a 50+lb package.
Now that is the way to run a company-- Under promise and OVER deliver. Can't wait to get it unboxed and broken in!!!

Right back at you, Stephen.:)

Thanks for stopping by with your valuable insight...I always learn something from your posts and I appreciate that you keep this thread on your radar screen.

It's one of my favorite threads. Everyone is friendly, helpful, and just wants to share their subwoofer experiences. No pointless bickering and personal insults. Kudos to you, Larry, weverb, and the other regulars who always keep this thread such a fun place to visit and contribute :).

Now I just need to bite the bullet and pick up an Outlaw sub so I actually have a legitimate reason to post here :p

Now I just need to bite the bullet and pick up an Outlaw sub so I actually have a legitimate reason to post here :p

I am about to sell my EX if you want it.

I am about to sell my EX if you want it.

It would be tempting except for the fact that my (old, worth very little $$$) car just got totaled a week or two ago and I have to replace it. So unfortunately, my limited college-student funds are pretty tied up right now :(. Best of luck in this difficult time - you and your wife are in my thoughts and prayers.

It would be tempting except for the fact that my (old, worth very little $$$) car just got totaled a week or two ago and I have to replace it. So unfortunately, my limited college-student funds are pretty tied up right now :(. Best of luck in this difficult time - you and your wife are in my thoughts and prayers.

Thanks for the kind words. Keep it in mind if you know anyone else looking. :)

I am pretty sure that is the record around this thread for the shortest time to the urge for a second sub: 1 movie + a couple of great scenes from another title.:D:D


What can I say....

Outlaw made a believer out of me.

I'll tell you...... the difference between the Compact and my old Velodyne is like night and day.

The manual is wrong. There is no way the Compact weights 55 lbs.

Maybe your guns are more powerful than you thought:eek:
Try it on a scale?:D

[QUOTE=steeler;15852147]Well ...I watched a couple of movies last night (Dark Knight and the attack scenes in Pearl Harbor). This sub rocks!!!!! Now I have to put this into perspective because I am coming from using a 16 yr old Velodyne F 1000 that wasn't made for HT but the Compact gave me more than enough bass even at the 10 o'clock volume setting.



I am definitely no sub woofer aficionado but IMHO this sub is perfect for a small to mid size room a bigger sub would blow you out of the room, it would be excessive and a waste of money. I heard sounds from this sub I have never heard before and during the explosions I could feel them. I also played some music today (Eagles new CD) and it sounded fantastic! I am not naive to think this is the best sub in the world, that’s not what I am saying and hope that is not what I am conveying but I stand by my previous statement.



QUOTE]


Glad you like your sub. But IME a bigger sub calibrated right wouldn't be a waste of $$. For HT anyways. The lows will put you in a different realm.All the new sounds you hear now would be alot more intense.

What can I say....

Outlaw made a believer out of me.

I'll tell you...... the difference between the Compact and my old Velodyne is like night and day.

I am so glad you like the Compact, steeler. You have a similar-sized room as mine and I have mine up at 10-11 o'clock as well. NO need to go higher than that! Great sub. Too bad my speakers can't compete now. :p

Maybe your guns are more powerful than you thought:eek:
Try it on a scale?:D

I put the entire packaging on a scale today and its weight is 10 lbs, that was easier than putting the Compact on the scale. The shipping weight from Fedex is 51 lbs. The power cord, legs and discs probably make up the other 3 lbs. So the weight of the Compact is 38 lbs........Mystery solved!

What position do you put the phase switch in? I can't tell a difference either way.

I am so glad you like the Compact, steeler. You have a similar-sized room as mine and I have mine up at 10-11 o'clock as well. NO need to go higher than that! Great sub. Too bad my speakers can't compete now. :p

What volume setting on your receiver do you have the sub set ?

Just a note. I ordered my LFM Plus on the last day of the sale. It was back ordered with an expected date of 45 days. Well, I was quite shocked when the UPS guy asked me to open the garage for him cause he had a 50+lb package.
Now that is the way to run a company-- Under promise and OVER deliver. Can't wait to get it unboxed and broken in!!!

I ordered on the last day also, did they send any email of any sort or did it just show up?

They drop you a note to tell you that they have one ready and your card is being charged. I tell you, I have been lurking on many other forums and almost pulled the trigger another sub. I was sold on Ascend ( I have 340s) when I spoke to Dave (owner/designer). I never spoke to anyone from Outlaw but the forums spoke volumes on how the quality and performance. LFM sale pulled me off the fence. One thing you see about both places is the love for the product and respect for the consumer.

They drop you a note to tell you that they have one ready and your card is being charged. I tell you, I have been lurking on many other forums and almost pulled the trigger another sub. I was sold on Ascend ( I have 340s) when I spoke to Dave (owner/designer). I never spoke to anyone from Outlaw but the forums spoke volumes on how the quality and performance. LFM sale pulled me off the fence. One thing you see about both places is the love for the product and respect for the consumer.

You were one of the last orders filled before they completely sold out, I spoke to Don and my order is on the boat. Mid March is what us late comers are looking at anticipation is a Bee-Otch. Oh he also appreciated the waterfall charts posted by craigssub as do I...:)