Hello all,

My fiancee and I recently purchased a new condo and I've been given the green light to buy a new TV. I've never bought a new TV before, so I'm learning as I go... and what I'm finding is that there are a plethora of options! So much so that I'm falling into the "paralysis by analysis" trap. So, I'm hoping that I can get some guidance here. With that, here are some basics:

1. The living room where the TV will be is small - only 12' x 18', and I expect the viewing distance to be ~7', but no more than 10'.
2. The TV size is restricted to 50" given the size of the room and logical places where the TV would go.
3. The budget is <= $2500, but we could go to $3000 if there is a justifiable reason to do so.

I've seen the following TVs and think they all look good:

1. Vizio P50 (older model from 2005). A friend of ours has this TV and I think it looks great. The newer model in Costco doesn't look as good to us, but it is hard to argue with $1400!
2. Pioneer 1140HD. Saw while hooked up at a local Myer Emco... it was hands down the best TV in a room full of Samsungs and Sonys. However the price is steep at $3000!
3. Pioneer 5070HD. Saw at a Best Buy, but didn't think it looked great. Admittedly, that could be because of the Best Buy video feed. I've called around and found the Pioneer 5070HD for ~$2200, which seems good.

I have not seen any of the Panasonics, but would be open to that as well. Now, I don't want to start a religious war about TV models, picture quality, etc., but I'd appreciate any sound advice given.

Welcome to the forum ubgoob.

The Pioneers and Panasonics constantly get the best reviews here. As you are aware, BB and similar stores are notorious for feeding their tvs crappy signals. If you read through the 5070 thread or Panny threads in particular you will find testimony that people have bought a Pio or Panny based on reviews here even though they looked poor at BB or other stores, and when they got it home it was unbelievably better. This goes for any tv they have on the wall there.

You can try to go in those stores and adjust the sets to get the best pic you can which may help, but you will still be up against crappy feeds. Are there any AV specialty stores in your area? Maybe you can find one that will help you compare with better feeds.

Also make sure you check out the forum sponsors prices on plasmas before you buy. Many of them are able to give great pricing, especially compared to BB and CC etc.

Good luck!

1. The living room where the TV will be is small - only 12' x 18', and I expect the viewing distance to be ~7', but no more than 10'.

2. The TV size is restricted to 50" given the size of the room and logical places where the TV would go.

3. The budget is <= $2500, but we could go to $3000 if there is a justifiable reason to do so.With a 50" at 7 feet you'll see SDE on a 720p or 768p but maybe not at 10 feet, so if the closer viewing distance is important to you then i'd be inclined to just get a 1080p set (Panasonic TH-50PZ700U) but you might have to stretch your budget a little more. SDE kills PQ for me, but luckily i sit one foot beyond the point where i see it on my 42" Panny (8-9 feet away). I see SDE at 10 feet on my friend's 50" 768p Panny but he doesn't see it so it depends on your particular eyesight. You should go to some good stores with a tape measure and see if you can see SDE on 720p and 768p 50 inchers at your viewing distance.

With a 50" at 7 feet you'll see SDE on a 720p or 768p but maybe not at 10 feet, so if the closer viewing distance is important to you then i'd be inclined to just get a 1080p set (Panasonic TH-50PZ700U) but you might have to stretch your budget a little more. SDE kills PQ for me, but luckily i sit one foot beyond the point where i see it on my 42" Panny (8-9 feet away). I see SDE at 10 feet on my friend's 50" 768p Panny but he doesn't see it so it depends on your particular eyesight. You should go to some good stores with a tape measure and see if you can see SDE on 720p and 768p 50 inchers at your viewing distance.

He is very correct about eye sight. I think it all depends. I sit 9 feet from a 58" and I have not had any problems with SDE. I think it really depends on the viewer. I think it is a really good idea to look into the 1080p if you are at 7' away, but it has to be your preference.

1080p would be nice at the 7' viewing distance but not absolutely necessary as you're on the fringe as to how much improvement it will make. My choice was the Pioneer 5070hd and absolutely love it, but Panasonic makes a very nice set also. Either one of those should do you just fine. My typical viewing distance is 11', but have occasionally watched mine from 7' and don't suffer any SDE. Like others have said, it's pretty much viewer dependent.

So if you wear glasses, don't wear them and there will be no SDE!!!

1080p would be nice at the 7' viewing distance but not absolutely necessary as you're on the fringe as to how much improvement it will make. My choice was the Pioneer 5070hd and absolutely love it, but Panasonic makes a very nice set also. Either one of those should do you just fine. My typical viewing distance is 11', but have occasionally watched mine from 7' and don't suffer any SDE. Like others have said, it's pretty much viewer dependent.

I agree - 7' is right on the fringe for a 50" display. My SEATING distance is about 8' and I could barely make out any SDE. However if I leaned forward (about 7' to 6') I could definitely see the pixel grid of the display (5070HD is the display I'm referring to). I just exchanged this for a Panny PZ700U 1080P and I really can't make out any SDE unless I'm a few feet away.

That being said, there are different pluses and minuses to each of these TV's and it's a difficult call. I really thought the Pioneer was a beautiful set with fantastic colors and great processing of SD material. I ultimately went for the Panny because of the SDE issue and also because it's newer tech and arguably more "futureproof" (if there really is such a thing!).

Welcome to the forum. Everyone so far has given you very solid advice. SDE is the appearance (most easily visable in light areas) of the blach cross hatch pattern caused by the black spacing between the pixels. If you get right up to a screen, a few feet, you can plainly see it :eek: . As you slowely move back, there comes a point, based on your eyesight, where it is no longer visable. When visable, it completely ruins a picture for me as I can't suspend my disbalief that I am actually "in the picture" or "looking through an open window" to the world. For me and for a 50" 768p display, this usually occurs between 7' and 8'. So for me, 8-9' would be perfect for a 50" 768p display as far as spatial resolution and visual acuity are concerned.

This will limit your ability to slide up close to get a real wide-angled big-screen theater like experience for some action movies. In those cases, a 1080p display is nice as you can get up real close if yo like.

I would second the suggestions of both Pioneer and Panny in your price range. The Elite certainly has more features and more picture adjustments than the Panny. I think the pictures these two present have some striking differencies and there are pros and cons to each depending on your personal tastes.

However, the soon to be released Pioneer 8G displays will probably far surpass the PQ of the current displays and so may be worth waiting for. I think the 50" regular Pioneer 5080, the replacement for the current 5070, is MSRP of 3500 which is worth considering and may be on the street within your range.

Cheers, :)

Gary

So if you wear glasses, don't wear them and there will be no SDE!!!
If you close your eyes too :p

Cheers, :)

Gary

I still think the 5070HD is a great choice for what you are looking at and you will be happy.

Panasonic TH-50PZ700U are out and about and will take you into the future with 1080P. Some other options.

Panasonic TH-50PX600U
Panasonic TH-50PX75U
Samsung HP-T5054
Samsung HP-T5064
Samsung HP-S5073
Philips 50PF7321D/37
Philips 50PF9631D/37
Hitachi P50H401
Hitachi P50H501
Hitachi 55HDT79
Hitachi 55HDS69
Pioneer PDP-5070HD

Need the monitor options too ;)

Lots of choices out there..........all great products.

Heck the 58" Panasonic are in that price range. (Nothing wrong with over kill)

Th-58PX60U
TH-58PX600U

Well, it seems that I'm at least on the right track looking at Pioneer and Panasonic. I suppose it is telling that no one has chimed in for the Vizio yet.

Seems to me that the decision boils down to Pioneer vs. Panasonic... I'll have to go back to a local store to do some more eyeball comparisons. Can anyone give me guidance of what to look for? (My thanks to whoever mentioned the SDE issue, I'll definitely be looking for that now).

Also, is there any consensus on the best 2-4 50" models in the < $2500 price range? What about < $3000?

Also, is there any consensus on the best 2-4 50" models in the < $2500 price range? What about < $3000?


5070HD for both :)

Well, it seems that I'm at least on the right track looking at Pioneer and Panasonic. I suppose it is telling that no one has chimed in for the Vizio yet.


Well, you *did* say your budget was $2500 -- the Vizio's strength is that you can get a really nice 50" plasma for under $1400, but it won't satisfy the videophiles in this forum for various reasons. Once you get in that price range where you can afford a 5070, you came to the wrong forum to get people to recommend stepping down in quality to save a grand. If you aren't incredibly discerning about picture quality, and would rather save the money to buy a PS3 or new speakers or something, I'm sure the Vizio would be perfectly satisfactory.

Heck, I'm surprised more people aren't pushing you to buy your fiancee some flowers and then go for the 58" panny, which is in your price range.

The consensus on best 50" in your price range is the 5070, with the Sammy 5054 (or 5064) and the Panny models close on its heels.

Well, you *did* say your budget was $2500 -- the Vizio's strength is that you can get a really nice 50" plasma for under $1400, but it won't satisfy the videophiles in this forum for various reasons. Once you get in that price range where you can afford a 5070, you came to the wrong forum to get people to recommend stepping down in quality to save a grand. If you aren't incredibly discerning about picture quality, and would rather save the money to buy a PS3 or new speakers or something, I'm sure the Vizio would be perfectly satisfactory.

Heck, I'm surprised more people aren't pushing you to buy your fiancee some flowers and then go for the 58" panny, which is in your price range.

The consensus on best 50" in your price range is the 5070, with the Sammy 5054 (or 5064) and the Panny models close on its heels.

Heck I'd buy a Panny 50PX60U for about $200 more than the Vizio you're considering. That's a fantastic TV for the price.

I did say the budget was < $2500, but possibly more if it were justified. I'm just surprised about Vizio as the picture my friend gets on his is pretty great. Then again, I'm not sure I've ever seen a properly calibrated Pioneer or Panasonic. ;)

Alright, so I'll be taking a hard look at the Pioneer 5070HD and 1140HD as well as some of the Panasonic TVs. (I'd love to look at the 58" Panasonic, but my fiancee would kill me and honestly it just seems too big for the space).

Aside from the Elite badge, what are the major differences between the 5070HD and 1140HD? The only thing I've found is that the 1140HD offers a 2-year warranty since it is an Elite model. I'm sure I'm not seeing something, which is why I'm asking the experts.

Read the very first post of the 940/1140/1540 thread. It will detail all of the differences for you. There are quite a few.

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"3. Pioneer 5070HD. Saw at a Best Buy, but didn't think it looked great. Admittedly, that could be because of the Best Buy video feed. I've called around and found the Pioneer 5070HD for ~$2200, which seems good."

I thought the same thing when I first looked at the 5070 (5071, actually) at Best Buy. The problem was the way they had the picture adjusted made it look very dim and dingy. Have the salesperson get the remote and cycle through the modes using the "AV SELECTION" button, for starters. You'll see a difference.