I currently own a VTF3Mk3 and feel like im lacking quite a bit of headroom. I have messd around quite a bit with placement and calibration but just cant seem to get good bass anywhere but my listening position. My room is roughly 15x40 with a large opening in the room.
i have been thinking of upgrade options so maybe I can get some second opinions.

1) Sell the VTF3MK3 and purchase a an HO w/turbo ($300 roughly)
2) purchase a VTF3MK2 ($500)
3) turbo for my mk3 and an HSU mid bass module ($700)
4) Purchase another VTF3MK3 ($850)
5) Try SVS :confused:

What do you not get that makes you feel that your bass is lacking?

I think they have squeezed all they could out of a 12" driver.In a small room it would work, but to get headroom you need multiple 15" drivers or at least multiple 12" drivers . If you go to the DIY section we would begin the process of figuring what would work.You may end up purchasing another HSU that would only give you +6db at the max output 25hz.To push that system into the +12db of headroom you would need (4).

If DIY isn't an option you are at the mercy of the manufacturer........which in my opinion isn't an option at all since DIY can yeild some pretty awesome results.

I use to have dual NHT1259's.They were great drivers, but the time came when Monsters Inc. bottomed them out and the realization that I needed headroom was at hand.I now use quad Tumults sealed with about 6k watts.I have all the headroom I need and never reach for the remote when the Machine speaks in the Matrix (unless Ed Mullen is over and we're at +5MV ) (even then they're pretty comfortable sharing the load)

KG

... I need and never reach for the remote when the Machine speaks in the Matrix (unless Ed Mullen is over and we're at +5MV ) (even then they're pretty comfortable sharing the load)

KG

:) that was fun wasn't it?

I currently own a VTF3Mk3 and feel like im lacking quite a bit of headroom. I have messd around quite a bit with placement and calibration but just cant seem to get good bass anywhere but my listening position. My room is roughly 15x40 with a large opening in the room.
i have been thinking of upgrade options so maybe I can get some second opinions.

1) Sell the VTF3MK3 and purchase a an HO w/turbo ($300 roughly)
2) purchase a VTF3MK2 ($500)
3) turbo for my mk3 and an HSU mid bass module ($700)
4) Purchase another VTF3MK3 ($850)
5) Try SVS :confused:

I think you would be best getting another VTF3MK3. The 3.3 according the HSU actually has more output above 25hz than the HO. Where the HO exceeds is down low. The MBM will give you output 50-80hz, but I think just going duals with the 3.3 will probably work out good for you. From what I've gathered regarding the turbo it give you more output down low, but output remains the same in the higher frequencies.

Bill3508

Thanks for the replies. DIY is somewhat out of the question since ive never built a sub or speaker in my life and dont really have the tools to do so. As far as what im lacking is little to no bass at a couple listening positions. If im sitting in the sweet spot it is fine but I have quite a bit of seating.
I am trying to avoid spending another $850 on another vtf3mk3 becasue that means I spent close to $1700 on my subs. Which is a little bit more than planned. Bill do you think that having a mid bass module at my listening position where my current sub is then having the mk3 in a corner will provide me with alot better headroom? As always if spending the money on another mk3 is what needs to be done than thats what needs to be done :) At that points though I wouldnt be able to help from thinking I could have had better results with $1700 to start with than 2 VTF3MK3's.

I don't know. With the MBM your only gaining in the 50-80 hz region, so if you low on bass below 50 you won't be gaining anything. Go over to the HSU site and send an email to Dr. HSU to see what he thinks. Give him your room dimensions including ceiling height and openings and tell him your concerns. I still think your going to need to add another 3.3 over just the MBM. As far as moving the subs around you could try that. Some have stated that the MBM does well positioned at the listening position and gives that extra punch. But if its low bass you are missing that would rule the MBM out. Best bet would be to contact HSU.


Bill3508

If the bass is fine at the listening position, but not at others, that's a room interaction problem, not a sub problem.

Getting a second sub could somewhat fix the problem, but the frequency issues you are having will still be there, they just won't be as apparent.

Before adding a second sub, I would spend some money on bass traps and see if you can even out the room response. You can either go with a tri corner trap, or go with the less expensive 4" thick traps straddling the corners from floor to ceiling. Contact Glenn @ GIK, or Ethan at Realraps, and I'm sure they will help you out with that. Or, if you don't mind building them yourself, you could probably do everything you need for aroudnd $200-$300.

You might want to invest in a some sound measurment equipment as well. If you already have a laptop computer, you just need a soundcard, microphone, and sofware like REW or StudioRTA.

But I guess the simple answer would be just to add a second sub! :-)

I don't think the MBM-12 would help since you are trying to get more bass at different seats, not the main position. You could try the mbm-12 at the center of the other seats. Do you have 2 rows of seating or just one couch? Explain the seating arrangements. I had a similar issue with my front row of seating. My SVS sub was behind the second row and I was getting above reference levels at any back seat, but the front rows were below reference levels, but still very good spl's. I purchased 2 different subs and now I have even bass at any seat. Maybe 1-2 db's off. Adding a second sub and trying different locations could be the solution. SVS and HSU are not the only solutions, but they are very good ones.

If you are experiencing strong bass at some locations but not others, that is a classic room problem, and a problem most if not all untreated rooms have. There are a few things you can do to mitigate this problem:
1) Get an eq for your current sub
2) Get a second sub
3) Experiment with placement of sub(s)
4) Experiment with the phase control of sub(s), either a switch or knob on the back of your sub
5) Room treatments

I'd start with 3 and 4, as that won't cost you anything and can yeild good results, sometimes by moving a sub just a little bit. Then get an SPL meter and test tones, you can find problem frequencies (peaks and nulls) that way, or get software for a more complete analysis. From there, I'd suggest room treatments to help tone down peaks and increase nulls. Adding a second sub will give a few more db output and can help to even out frequency response as well.

I currently own a VTF3Mk3 and feel like im lacking quite a bit of headroom. I have messd around quite a bit with placement and calibration but just cant seem to get good bass anywhere but my listening position. My room is roughly 15x40 with a large opening in the room.
i have been thinking of upgrade options so maybe I can get some second opinions.

1) Sell the VTF3MK3 and purchase a an HO w/turbo ($300 roughly)
2) purchase a VTF3MK2 ($500)
3) turbo for my mk3 and an HSU mid bass module ($700)
4) Purchase another VTF3MK3 ($850)
5) Try SVS :confused:

Personally, I would choose #4. It would give you a little bit of headroom. In addition, it seems that you want the FR to be smooth at different seating positions. A second subwoofer would certainly help with that.

Good luck!
-J

I agree with deneb and juan1000. Now if this is not an option because having 2 subs is too much money than you may have too look into a different sub or subs. Try moving your seats if you can, just a little forward or back my get you there.

Just so you know, you do not really need any experience to build a sub, and as far as tools, all you really need is a router, even with the cost of that, you are looking at saving serious dough. You can also have a cabinet maker build your enclosure for you.

As far as your room goes, moving your head forward a few inches can sway the FR of your sub drastically. I have measured a 15db difference from a 6" move before, however this is not a guaranteed winner as it often times creates just as many problems as it solves. The best thing to is build a few sub traps out of fiberglass and stick them in the corners of your room and then get a good PEQ like the behringer feedback destroyer or the velodyne SMS-1.

I use to have dual NHT1259's.They were great drivers, but the time came when Monsters Inc. bottomed them out and the realization that I needed headroom was at hand.I now use quad Tumults sealed with about 6k watts. I have all the headroom I need and never reach for the remote when the Machine speaks in the Matrix (unless Ed Mullen is over and we're at +5MV ) (even then they're pretty comfortable sharing the load) :eek:

I would love to see your electric bill! :p



Ian :D

I would think about bass treatments for the room as suggested but what about those little furniture mounted bass shakers? Those are relatively cheap and it might be the ticket you are actually looking for.


Thoughts anyone?

Some good advice given above. A combination is likely the best solution.

That is a large room and 1 12" will only do so much (usually). Having another sub will help IF you're willing to put it where it needs to be.

If the bass is good at the listening position(s), then you're good to go. If it's good at one and not other listening positions, then treatment and placment of the sub and seating positions should be addressed.

In any case, treatment of the bass will help minimize room cancellations.

Bryan

Hi-

Any pics of the room? Maybe you can sketch something out, show us where you've tried to place the sub and where the listening positions are. I agree it sounds like a room issue because of performance in one spot and not another.

Do you have an SPL meter? What kind of frequency response are you getting? Sometimes there is a large hump that you calibrate to, then the rest of the range sounds weak.

How tall is the room? Even though it sounds large, I'd think you'd be able to get better performance than you are describing. I have a PC-Ultra(12) in my HT, which opens to the rest of the basement and it energizes the whole listening area and beyond. I have my sub on the center of the screen-wall.

...lots more to do before you buy a second sub...

Hi-

Any pics of the room? Maybe you can sketch something out, show us where you've tried to place the sub and where the listening positions are. I agree it sounds like a room issue because of performance in one spot and not another

I will take some pics of the room as soon as i get some daylight in here.. :p

Do you have an SPL meter? What kind of frequency response are you getting? Sometimes there is a large hump that you calibrate to, then the rest of the range sounds weak.
I do have an spl meter, but dont have any computer programs for posting graphs or anything like that. I would be more than willing to post my responses but how exactly do i find out what my freq respose is? I have an AVIA disc and an spl but thats about it. I find a get a smoother response with my eq turned off on my denon 2807 but thats a whole other story..

How tall is the room? Even though it sounds large, I'd think you'd be able to get better performance than you are describing. I have a PC-Ultra(12) in my HT, which opens to the rest of the basement and it energizes the whole listening area and beyond. I have my sub on the center of the screen-wall.
I have tried alot of different placements for the sub with about the same result as far as overal bass. That why why i currently have my sub behind the couch because at least then i do get bass at my listening position, but like i said there are about 7 different seats in my room and they all get used quite a bit.

...lots more to do before you buy a second sub...
I have been doing some research on bass traps but from the different sites ive been to it seems like id be spending alot more on the traps then I would by just buying another sub. Im probably just looking in all the wrong places though..

Sorry i wasnt quite sure how to split up the quotes :confused:

I purchased 6 of the GIK 244 panels for bass trap use for just over $500 shipped (and two of them are custom sizes), very comparable to the price of a middle of the road HSU sub. However, the bass trap approach may in fact give you benefits unobtainable with a second sub. Adding a second sub can help with problem frequencies but won't do much to tame decay time issues inherent in most every room. I'd actually recommend a second sub AND bass traps, if you've already been experimenting with placement and phase of your current sub and haven't got the results you're looking for.

I got around to taking some pics.. Like it I said it is a pretty odd shaped room. http://s140.photobucket.com/albums/r5/scottyh420/

Ok, all together now... bass traps.

Whew, I don't know about you, but I feel much better now. :p


Tim

Hi-

Try the excel file and correction values on this site. (http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/bfd-rew-forum/35-bfd-guide-quick-links-faq-tips.html)

Even better, if you have a PC and sound card in there you can use the room EQ wizard to plot the frequency response in several positions quite easily.

Forget about an EQ for now. Measure the corrected FR in a few of your seats and see if there's anything obviously wrong... you'll know it when you see it.

By the way, I would think the corner by the two love seats is the best spot for the sub, if only because of proximity to the seats.

I currently own a VTF3Mk3 and feel like im lacking quite a bit of headroom. I have messd around quite a bit with placement and calibration but just cant seem to get good bass anywhere but my listening position. My room is roughly 15x40 with a large opening in the room.
i have been thinking of upgrade options so maybe I can get some second opinions.

1) Sell the VTF3MK3 and purchase a an HO w/turbo ($300 roughly)
2) purchase a VTF3MK2 ($500)
3) turbo for my mk3 and an HSU mid bass module ($700)
4) Purchase another VTF3MK3 ($850)
5) Try SVS :confused:
Scotty,
Know how you feel. Been there done that and it is never enough, trust me, I started with a Bose AM-15 :D . There is a cure :).
Check out this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=836162). Don't be intimidated with that many posts. I thought DIY was "never" for me. With a $1700 budget, you can do wonders. Post on the DIY forum clearly stating what you are looking for and what your budget is. Notice what amount of support you get. Decide for yourself.
Enjoy,
-Jai

I currently own a VTF3Mk3 and feel like im lacking quite a bit of headroom. I have messd around quite a bit with placement and calibration but just cant seem to get good bass anywhere but my listening position. My room is roughly 15x40 with a large opening in the room.
i have been thinking of upgrade options so maybe I can get some second opinions.

1) Sell the VTF3MK3 and purchase a an HO w/turbo ($300 roughly)
2) purchase a VTF3MK2 ($500)
3) turbo for my mk3 and an HSU mid bass module ($700)
4) Purchase another VTF3MK3 ($850)
5) Try SVS :confused:
Since I have walked this road before you, let me be more specific. This suggestion is just to get you started. Gurus in DIY will have obviously better ideas. But give this idea some thought.
1 TC 2K 15" wooofer ($300) and 2 TC-VMP15 passive radiators ($150/piece for AL and about $200/piece fo Ti, call TC sounds ;) ).
TC2k (http://www.tcsounds.com/tc2000.htm). Hire a cabinet maker for $400 (Overkill if you want furniture grade eye popping stunning good looks). Get a killer amp for another $800 used and that will blow away any commercial subwoofer I can think of. This is just the starting point. The rest of the journey is entirely up to you. :)
Good luck,
-Jai

Since I have walked this road before you, let me be more specific. This suggestion is just to get you started. Gurus in DIY will have obviously better ideas. But give this idea some thought.
1 TC 2K 15" wooofer ($300) and 2 TC-VMP15 passive radiators ($150/piece for AL and about $200/piece fo Ti, call TC sounds ;) ).
TC2k (http://www.tcsounds.com/tc2000.htm). Hire a cabinet maker for $400 (Overkill if you want furniture grade eye popping stunning good looks). Get a killer amp for another $800 used and that will blow away any commercial subwoofer I can think of. This is just the starting point. The rest of the journey is entirely up to you. :)
Good luck,
-Jai

Thats $1800 though. DIY can be a blast and yield serious performance but it is not for everyone. It is also not "always" a cheap alternative. I am very pleased with the performance of my current DIY effort but I also have over $2600 sunk into it.

I think the best option for the OP is a second 3MK3 NON co-located.

-Eli

Thats $1800 though. DIY can be a blast and yield serious performance but it is not for everyone. It is also not "always" a cheap alternative. I am very pleased with the performance of my current DIY effort but I also have over $2600 sunk into it.

I think the best option for the OP is a second 3MK3 NON co-located.

-Eli
The OP mentioned $850 for an additional 3MK3. So that makes it $1700 for 2 3MK3s. I am not current on HSU prices, so I just checked the HSU website and the 3MK3 is $630. Maybe he can get $500 for his used 3MK3 and with a $1300 he can still do well with DIY. I agree DIY is not for everyone. But if I can do it, anyone else can.
Maybe a second 3MK3 is the answer, but that additional 6dB headroom may still not cut it. Just my gut feeling. Why not go for the best his $s can offer????

The OP mentioned $850 for an additional 3MK3. So that makes it $1700 for 2 3MK3s. I am not current on HSU prices, so I just checked the HSU website and the 3MK3 is $630. Maybe he can get $500 for his used 3MK3 and with a $1300 he can still do well with DIY. I agree DIY is not for everyone. But if I can do it, anyone else can.
Maybe a second 3MK3 is the answer, but that additional 6dB headroom may still not cut it. Just my gut feeling. Why not go for the best his $s can offer????

The way I read his post, headroom is not his problem. ;)

-Eli

The way I read his post, headroom is not his problem. ;)

-Eli
I guess you are right. I saw the sentence lack headroom and so I thought so. But then he says "except LP" :D. Yes, in that case a 2nd identical sub.

Hi scotty,


4) Purchase another VTF3MK3 ($850)


Look again, that is not quite the right price at the moment :)

You have a huge room, so I would definitely recommend dual subwoofers.

Sorry Peter I was thinking of the w/turbocharger price..I paid $775 with shipping for mine. I just looked again though to see if the price was lowered and I guess the price is "Error: Data not available (100) " :confused: .... but anyway i guess the general consensus is another VTF3MK3 is the solution over spending the money towards Bass traps?

Guys-

Look at the room. As of this point it is probably not the sub. We need to see the FR in a few of the positions to understand what is going on.

Sorry Peter I was thinking of the w/turbocharger price..I paid $775 with shipping for mine. I just looked again though to see if the price was lowered and I guess the price is "Error: Data not available (100) " :confused: .... but anyway i guess the general consensus is another VTF3MK3 is the solution over spending the money towards Bass traps?

That's strange, try again scotty. Also, check the home page, price is even better than you had before!