I have procrastinated waaay too long in starting this thread. We started this project well over a year ago. It began w/ us just wanting to finish the basement, and me wanting a media room to hang a front projector. As we went along, it turned more and more into a dedicated room.

We paid someone to finish the basement, since my DIY skills pretty much involved knowing how to sign a check. During the build out, I hung out on these forums way too much, and started stressing about how to do things right. The DIY kicked in when it came time to do the low voltage wiring. It took me forever, but that started me off with the desire to do more and more things myself.

The design was done "ready, fire, aim style". If I had to do it all over again, I would have done it a lot different. There were many mistakes made, but I did a lot of things right. The smartest move was in hiring bpape out to do the acoustical design before sheetrock went up.

I'll throw in more information as this thread grows. Right now, the room is technically finished (i.e. inspection is complete, and the room is useable), but I still have the acoustical treatments to build and integrate into the room, and I want it done in a way that is going to make the room look more like a real HT instead of a media room.

My current bland state from the rear of the room:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/from_back-medium.jpg

Shot of the side wall:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/right_wall_sconces-medium.jpg

Shot of the back:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/back-wall-medium.jpg

Currently we just have one row of three seats. Due to the double doors (bad design) and the equipment closet being located in the room(more bad design), there isn't a whole lot of room left for another row. I think for now we are just going to get a bar height table, and a couple of bar chairs to put in the rear of the room. We also plan on throwing a couple of bean bags in the front.

The front wall is going to 6" of OC703 everywhere the screen is not. So the screen will get put into a shadow box. I'll likely use black GOM or Dazian cloth for the screen wall.

The part I am trying to figure out now, is how to make the side walls look nicer. We were originally going to just make simple 2'x4' acoustical panels wrapped in fabric, and hang them on the walls like pictures, but I am now more motivated to do go for a more finished look.

I am thinking about putting in columns where the sconces are. Those sconces are 14" wide, and that looks roughly the width I would want the columns. We'll replace those sconces with something narrower or potentially use some glass or something in part of the column and turn the column into a big light fixture. We have a wetbar outside of the theater room, and I was thinking of making the columns match that color.

Wet bar on the other side of the room:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/wet_bar-medium.jpg

We may want to end up replacing the trim with something in the same color as well.

If we go with the columns, I am not sure what to do in between them as far as the panels go. I need to draw something up to give some of my current thoughts, but I am thinking some panels like the ones used by GPowers, or perhaps doing different sized ones like you see in Sandman's theater.

In the past I was too shy to ask, so I am starting this thread now, to hopefully get this phase of the HT done right. So any thoughts, suggestions, ideas, direction would be helpful ;-)

Also, if you have any questions on the details of the construction/equipment or whatever, I'll be happy to answer.

Just as a starter, what is your equipment list?

Projector: JVC RS1
Screen: 114" diag 2.4:1 DIY w/ blackout cloth
AVR: Pioneer Elite 84
HD-DVD: Toshiba HD-A1
Bluray: Samsung BDP1200
DVR: Dish 622 that is currently located in the family room, connected to the receiver via component video and digital audio.
Speakers: All ACI
Front: Sapphire XLs
Center: Sapphire XLC
Sides: Emerald XLs
Rears: Custom Emerald XLs that will go in the ceiling (not finished yet)
Subs: 2 of the Force XLs
Rack: Middle Atlantic AXS (slide out version of the slim5)
Chairs: Berkline 45004 motorized in leather/vinyl combo 7077-29

I'll likely upgrade the HD-DVD player once the 1080p24 firmware upgrade happens for the Toshiba XA2. I also may ugprade the AVR as well, as I haven't gotten the firmware updated to fix the LFE bug, and am hesitant to ship it off to get fixed. This receiver will work quite nicely in my family room, where there wouldn't be any sources that exploit the LFE bug.

I would definitely darken the ceiling and front wall....maybe just the whole room? Why not make the image the best it can be?

The ceiling is actually quite darker than the pictures show. The front wall will end up all black once I put up the 6" of insulation that will act as a shadow box as well as bass absorption and wrap it in cloth. If things seem to bright after that is finished, I'll think about blacking up the area of the ceiling that is above the stage.

The main thing I am currenly trying to figure out is how to do the side and back walls w/ the acoustical treatments. Something nicer than picture shaped panels on the wall.

Aaron,

You got nice clean look at moment. Think you need to decide is do you want full room coverings or partial wall. You mention GPowers and SandmanX with thier panels which are both great, another choice would be something like BIGMouthInDC's, Chinadog's, Jikkjack's and scaesare's. All unique great looks. Myself I decided just the treat 2/3 of the all and leave some painted drywall.

Best for you to take a look and see what color scheme and design you prefer.

Good Luck.

Cheers,
Mark

Aaron, you have great gear - I think you should really do it justice by treating the room and darkening it per some of the other suggestions. Your room looks great already and you have a ton of potential to work with there. Have you thought about hiring BPape or Dennis to give you some targeted advice on treatments? That might help you decide between full wall and panels.

Chairs: Berkline 45004 motorized in leather/vinyl combo 7077-29
what do you think of the vinyl match on the chairs?

You got nice clean look at moment. Think you need to decide is do you want full room coverings or partial wall. You mention GPowers and SandmanX with thier panels which are both great, another choice would be something like BIGMouthInDC's, Chinadog's, Jikkjack's and scaesare's. All unique great looks. Myself I decided just the treat 2/3 of the all and leave some painted drywall.


Thanks, it has been the staring at all of the above theaters (amongh others, including yours) for the past year that has me desiring to do something nicer. Right now I am leaning towards taking your approach and leaving some of it as painted drywall.

I guess I need to break down and learn how to use sketchup or something to draw out some things that I am thinking so that I can bounce some ideas off of you guys.

Aaron, you have great gear - I think you should really do it justice by treating the room and darkening it per some of the other suggestions. Your room looks great already and you have a ton of potential to work with there. Have you thought about hiring BPape or Dennis to give you some targeted advice on treatments? That might help you decide between full wall and panels.

I hired out bpape before we put up the drywall. He helped me avoid a ton of mistakes and has really helpful along the way. When I hired him though, I was just thinking we would hang panels, and not have any columns. He said the design would still work if I went with more cloth coverage, but just to leave some of the panels blank. As I get things more figured out, I'll contact him again to see if there are any new room elements that we can take advantage of for bass traps or anything. I'll post the acoustical design layout when I get a chance.

what do you think of the vinyl match on the chairs?

They turned out quite nice. If I could figure out a good spot to put them in the room, I would order some more ;-)

As I mentioned earlier, I hired out bpape to do the acoustical design for my room. I haven't implemented any of this design yet, but that is what I am in the process of figuring out how to do from an aesthetics point of view.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/room_layout-medium.jpg

The chairs ended up being located more towards left of center of the room, as opposed to being offset to the right like show above.

Originally I just planned on doing the simple fabric framed panels hung like pictures on the wall. Bryan said that I can still use the above design even if I go w/ the all cloth (or mostly cloth) look, but just to leave some blank space behind the GOM.

I'll see if I can sketch something up for what I am currently thinking for the side wall look, but I am currently contemplating just going about 2/3rd the way up the wall covered w/ panels, and leave the drywall exposed above that, with maybe some wood trim breaking up the lines between the cloth and the drywall. Note, that the panels called for are 2" thick, so I don't know if that is going to be too big of a depth change going to the drywall, and maybe I should just bring the cloth all the way up to the soffit.

Ok, here is a rough idea about what I was thinking for the side wall. This sketch only shows the columns and an idea of what would go between them.

One of the first reflection points falls right where a column would go, so I was thinking of using part of the column as the acoustical treatment, and just wrap it in a dark fabric.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/side_wall_sketch1.jpg

Thoughts?

The side walls are currently a tan color, with the ceiling,front and back wall a darker tan color. The carpet is a mixture of black, brown and tan. We are thinking whatever wood we introduce into the HT room (columns and new trim) should be a close match to the wood in our bar (I think it is medium to dark cherry stain on maple, the pictures in the first post are pretty accurate for those colors).

So if we go with a black cloth for the screen wall, does anyone have any suggestions for the cloth on the side walls?

I was thinking a dark tan or brown or something like that. Also, if we end up going with the various shape panel design like above, I am likely going to have to pick out two colors. But in looking through the online GOM samples, I am having a rough go finding something "brown".

Any help/suggestions anyone has to offer would be much appreciated. I'd also like to get some other ideas or feedback for the panel/column layout design.

I'm still trying to figure out what to do with my side walls. Like I mentioned earlier, I am thinking about leaving some drywall exposed at the top of the wall, along w/ the soffits and ceilings.

But, if you take a look at the first picture in this thread, you may notice that there is more space between the right soffit and screen as there is between the left soffit and screen. The screen is centered in the room, but the soffits are different widths. I don't really know how much this bothers me, but it dawned on me that if I ended up covering everything but the ceiling in fabric, that I could make the soffits the same size. Any suggestions?

I don't know if I really want that much fabric, but it at least gives me more to noodle on.

I am in the process of ordering a bunch of GOM samples. Finding brown/tan GOM colors is a royal PITA.

Have you looked at Burlap? It might come in a color that will work well. You can also take a trip to the fabric store and use the "blow-through" technique to find a material that is acoustically transparent enough for covering treatments.

Have you looked at Burlap? It might come in a color that will work well. You can also take a trip to the fabric store and use the "blow-through" technique to find a material that is acoustically transparent enough for covering treatments.

Thanks for the idea. From what I can tell, pretty much anything that you can blow through should do the trick. My only concern about going non-GOM is fire safety. No smoking allowed in my place, but I wouldn't want some other freak accident igniting my walls. It does look like there are some products that you can use to treat burlap and such to make it fire retardent though. Then again, if I am not going with full coverage, I don't know how concerned I should really be about this.

Hey Aaron,,, here’s my suggestions for your walls treatments/colors.

First off,,, IMO, too many different colors are distracting. The multiple colors will lessen the detail of the more elegant details that one's attention should be drawn to. (like the wood trim you may use on the columns)

First thing I would do is paint the side walls and soffit the same darker color of the rear wall/ceiling. I’m sure you don’t want to hear that, but the two colors are a bit much when you add the beautiful woodwork + possibly two different colors of material on the side wall.

Next,,, paint the baseboards a darker color. (preferably matching one of the two material colors in the side wall) or better yet,,, remove them all together and run the panels and columns all the way to the carpet.

I like the design you came up with for the side walls. I think that the cherry maple with the material in the mid section within the columns is a wonderful idea. I would, however, use the wood sparingly and eliminate the wood trim area you have marked along the top of your mock-up drawing. (only use wood on the columns) Mixing several vertical lines, along with several horizontal lines can again become distracting and detail is lost.

I also like how you have broken up the area between the columns with the different sized and orientation of the panels. Here, however, I would lower the top most part of the sidewall panel to end at the same height as the material on the columns, match the column material color with the panel material, then, instead of mixing the orientation of the panels, (some short and vertical, some long and horizontal) I would only do one of the two. Example,, only do tall vertical OR long horizontal panels. Adding a more subtle detail, like beveled edges, on the single panel type can add a touch of elegance. This adds detail without distracting the eye from the greater picture,,, which is the overall design. Fewer individual panels with an edge detail is also less costly and easier to construct. (BONUS!) :D

Fabricmate and other companies manufacture simple to install track systems that are easy to create rectangular shapes with, then install the GOM onto with the OC in any configuration you like "underneath" the suspended GOM. This track system comes in a variety of edge profiles and sizes so you can easily add simple details like this. Lighting in the room will bring out the beveled edges for more detail if you so choose.

If you are going to go through the effort of building columns, I would definitely relocate your speakers inside of them, or build the column over the top of the current speaker location. Keep the sconce, or another lighting alternative that might be cool is to install small flush mount “directional” accent lights into the side of the columns, above the top-most portion of the panels, facing down at an angle from the side of each column, onto the fabric panels instead of the sconces. This accent light would add a very cool dimension to the beveled panel idea by creating shadows on the panel material.

Something like this….

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/verrot/Home%20Theater/side_wall_sketch3.jpg


http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/verrot/Home%20Theater/side_wall_sketch2.jpg



I LOVE the carpet you chose for the room,,,, I would definitely pick one of the colors out of that carpet for the panel material color. (I prefer the dark gray color)

That's my .02,,, Love your room by the way. That bar is B-E-A-utiful!!!

Treat the room. Cheapest and easiest... do Linacoustic or similar to the bottom half of the room, you can leave the top half just drywall. No need for acoustical panels above ear level unless doing panels all around which means you should measure out first refelctions (you should do that anyway) Do some bass trapping as well.

Read the acoustical master thread. That is going to be the biggest improvement in your HT.

I think the accoustic design is handled,,, he hired it out. I believe he's simply looking for ways to "cover" the treatment material for appearance purposes only.

I love the carpet too... where can I get it? :D

Hey Aaron,,, here’s my suggestions for your walls treatments/colors....

Verrot, Thank You! This is exactly the sort of feedback that I have been hoping to get.

First thing I would do is paint the side walls and soffit the same darker color of the rear wall/ceiling. I’m sure you don’t want to hear that, but the two colors are a bit much when you add the beautiful woodwork + possibly two different colors of material on the side wall.

Actually, that is what I want to hear. I really like the front/back wall/ceiling color a lot. Since I am going to be covering the front wall, and most of the back wall anyway, I think painting the remainder of the sidewall that same color is an excellent idea.

Next,,, paint the baseboards a darker color. (preferably matching one of the two material colors in the side wall) or better yet,,, remove them all together and run the panels and columns all the way to the carpet.

I was originally thinking of removing the baseboards and replacing them with something stained the same as the columns. If just having the panels go all the way to the floor will work, then that will be something I will consider, and maybe get rid of the baseboards all together.

If you are going to go through the effort of building columns, I would definitely relocate your speakers inside of them, or build the column over the top of the current speaker location.

I need to noodle on this one. I don't think the column would look quite right going in the location where the side speakers are. I would also need to make the column a lot deeper than I would want if I were to put the speaker inside of it. I can't quite visualize how it would look surrounded by the column, but not hidden.

Keep the sconce, or another lighting alternative that might be cool is to install small flush mount “directional” accent lights into the side of the columns, above the top-most portion of the panels, facing down at an angle from the side of each column, onto the fabric panels instead of the sconces. This accent light would add a very cool dimension to the beveled panel idea by creating shadows on the panel material.

Something like this….

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/verrot/Home%20Theater/side_wall_sketch3.jpg


I hadn't thought about having accent lights shoot from the side of the column. That might be pretty cool. I really like the vertical panel layout you drew up. If my ceiling was higher, I might prefer the other way, but I think the vertical orientation will give the room a little more height.

I LOVE the carpet you chose for the room,,,, I would definitely pick one of the colors out of that carpet for the panel material color. (I prefer the dark gray color)

That's my .02,,, Love your room by the way. That bar is B-E-A-utiful!!!

Thanks! I am not sure if there is any gray in there or not. I think it is black with various browns/tans or whatever. I'll have to look closer though. We picked out that carpet first, then used the colors in there to pick out the paint in the HT room, and the carpet color for the rest of the basement. I am really hoping that I can find a fabric color suitable for acoustical treatments that will match it quite well.

Thanks again for your input.

I love the carpet too... where can I get it? :D

The carpet is made by Masland Carpets (http://www.maslandcarpets.com/Broadloom/Broadloom_main.htm)

The style is 'Rhythm'

It was one of the styles that BIGmouthinDC was looking at a while back. I really liked it, and then when we went to pick out carpets, our decorator explained to the carpet guy that we were looking for something 'fun,dark, etc etc', and it was the first sample that he pulled out. I said "That's it!", and we were done picking out carpet in the HT room.

As fair warning though, it is not cheap.

Hey I remember that picture:
It actually looks much better in your theater then I could ever have imagined. WAF said go with the squares. After seeing yours I would have picked it as well.
My design consultation fee bill is in the mail!

Here is a grey version

http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b393/bigmouthindc/590dfce6.jpg

Masland carpet isn't discounted a nickel in this area. The Sandman got a great deal in Florida but here it was $45 yd installed. OUCH!!!!

AAAH,,, your pic of the carpet looks like it has a dark gray in it,,, that must be the black?

I would also need to make the column a lot deeper than I would want if I were to put the speaker inside of it. I can't quite visualize how it would look surrounded by the column, but not hidden.

That makes sense,, I didn't know how deep the columns were going to be,,, guess I just assumed 8" or so. I was referring to hiding the speakers within the columns,,,, but that may mess up the "wood on top" theme of your column also. :confused:

I was originally thinking of removing the baseboards and replacing them with something stained the same as the columns. If just having the panels go all the way to the floor will work, then that will be something I will consider, and maybe get rid of the baseboards all together.

I was originally going to do baseboards around my entire room. (on top of the front/rear wall panel material) After I got the panels up,,, my Lady and I decided that it could be too busy,,, and we could always add it later if we didn't like. Sooo we deleted them from the design, only installed baseboards on the side walls. Turns out we actually prefer the look of the panel down to the carpet. (and we don't have beautiful carpet like that to show off either!)

I agree with you on the vertical lines adding height to the room. I think the lighting across the vertically oriented panels (especially if you bevel the edges) would add a very cool detail to your side walls. (but I LOVE lighting/shadow effects) It would also give it the look of another color, without the added expense/construction. (If I ever change my sidewalls,,, I'm using this idea)

Hey Big,,, not to hijack,, but I L-O-V-E your "hidden rack behind the pillar" job in your room! I think that's probably my favorite rack job. VERY Sano!!

Sorry Aaron,,, Big's pic of the carpen in front of his hidden rack reminded me!! :o

Sorry Aaron,,, Big's pic of the carpet in front of his hidden rack reminded me!! :o

No worries. Everytime I see a pic from Big's room, even one I have seen before, I find myself staring in awe.

I am somewhat back from the dead. I picked up a nasty virus a couple of weeks ago that had me in bed for almost a full week.

I had a bunch of GOM samples show up at the door a couple of days ago. I'll get some pictures of the ones we are considering, but right now I am leaning towards the Anchorage Coffee Bean color, and potentially some accents with the Anchorage Red Delicious. If I go w/ the Anchorage line for the side walls, I'll likely do the Anchorage Onyx(black) for the screen wall. The Anchorage line is not good to put speakers behind (which I am not), but is supposed to be just fine for acoustical treatments.

I am starting to think about just going back to the plain ole hung panel route, as opposed to the columns and chiseled panels covering most of the wall. I am worried that if I have the fabric going all the way to the floor, that I am going to be constantly worried about my 1.5yr old and/or 5yr old pushing on the fabric, and leaving dents or causing it to stretch or whatever. Is this something I should worry about?

I figure it would be easy to tell them to not touch the "pictures", but to keep a kid from touching the wall is not likely.

Sorry to hear about your illness,,,, glad you are better.

I was going to make some fancy panels for my room, pretty much an elegant Maple frame stained like my baseboards,,,,, but after I hung the GOM wrapped panels, I decided I really liked the way they looked as is, so that's how I left them.

As far as the kids and the panels go,,,, my 6 year old has known not to touch Daddy's toys since she was 1,,, for what it's worth?.

Good luck with it Aaron,,,, keep us posted.

Still no real progress on the room itself. I finished getting my pool table back together over the weekend. I was able to get in some good stapling practice on that bad boy.

I started playing with Google Sketchup over the weekend so that I can map out some different design ideas. I am a tad slow w/ the tool, but it is definitely helping me visualize some things. I put the screen wall in place, and darkened up the soffits, and played around w/ columns etc.

Here is a model of the room w/ part wood part fabric columns, and simple hung panels. Note, that is not my carpet, but it was the closest carpet pattern they had in sketchup.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/ht_room_panels_sketch.jpg

I think I need columns if I go the simple hung panel route, because the sconces we currently have will be hard to work around. My next step is to model up some designs w/ full fabric walls. Here I can go with or without columns.

I'd like to get some input on ceiling color. I am debating between going w/ a much darker version of what I have or black or just keeping what I have. If I go with the panel design above, I would likely paint the sidewalls the same color as what I have on my ceiling now, or potentially something darker.

Hm, reminds me of a classroom, but I am sure it looks more theater like in person. For the side walls I would go darker but not black. Also in the picture at least your panels seem too high.

Hm, reminds me of a classroom, but I am sure it looks more theater like in person.
Classroom?? Help me out on that one, because I am not seeing it. Don't fear though, as this is just my first sketch... trying to get a feel for how it would look with the simple hung panel approach as opposed to doing 2/3rds or the full wall w/ fabric.

For the side walls I would go darker but not black.
I may end up going darker on the side walls, but black was never an option there. I am wondering about black on the ceiling, versus a dark brown. The side walls will either be painted the same color of my existing ceiling, or something slightly darker, and the acoustical treatments will likely be a very dark brown. Then again, I may go with full fabric walls which would probably be mostly the dark brown.

Also in the picture at least your panels seem too high.
I don't have dimensions on that sketch, but I have those 2' x 4' treatments centered between the floor and the bottom of the soffit. This has them about 1'4" off of the floor. Would you consider that too high? I seem to remember bpape telling me that they usually go 2' from the floor, but it would be ok to just center them.

thanks,
aaron

[QUOTE=aaron_hinni]Classroom?? Help me out on that one, because I am not seeing it. Don't fear though, as this is just my first sketch... trying to get a feel for how it would look with the simple hung panel approach as opposed to doing 2/3rds or the full wall w/ fabric."

Just reminded me of the last college classroom I was in. not a big deal.

"I may end up going darker on the side walls, but black was never an option there. I am wondering about black on the ceiling, versus a dark brown. The side walls will either be painted the same color of my existing ceiling, or something slightly darker, and the acoustical treatments will likely be a very dark brown. Then again, I may go with full fabric walls which would probably be mostly the dark brown."

I do recommend the black ceiling or extremely dark other color, Mine is actually blue but you would NEVER know it looking at it it is black as midnight
"I don't have dimensions on that sketch, but I have those 2' x 4' treatments centered between the floor and the bottom of the soffit. This has them about 1'4" off of the floor. Would you consider that too high? I seem to remember bpape telling me that they usually go 2' from the floor, but it would be ok to just center them."

Yes personally I feel it is to high, you want them to start a bit closer to the floor and to go just a bit above your seated height. now when you have a riser you can do it a couple ways, raise the panels as you go, use longer panels there. But if Brian said center them then I guess it is ok. Just on a looks consideration that looks like the generic theater kits I have seen, and so is less appealing but if that is what YOU like that is what counts.

Here is the next sketch. Here I plan on using vertical panels w/ a beveled edge butted together. These panels would cover 2/3rds of the wall, leaving drywall exposed at the top. We would paint the remaining drywall the same color of our existing ceiling, and likely use the GOM Anchorage Coffee Bean color (dark brown) for the fabric.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/ht_room_vertical_panels.jpg

I forgot to mention this earlier, but there will be all fabric columns in the back corner of each wall acting as bass traps, that will be 6" deep, and as wide as the soffit. I am thinking black fabric for these, or perhaps the same as the panels.

I am still going to be toying with other designs, but I think I like this one better than the normal 2' x 4' panels.

As always, any feedback is more than welcome.

Here is the next sketch w/ the panels running horizonal.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/ht_room_horizontal_panels.jpg

I was originally liking the vertical more, thinking it would add more height to the room, but I am liking the looks of the horizontal panels now. What do you think?

My next step is to model up some designs w/ full fabric walls. If you have any ideas for me, let me know! I also need to play around w/ various color schemes. Fun fun fun.

aaron,

fwiw I like the last design posted. The horizontal panels look the best to me. They give an added depth to the room (according to the drawings anyway).

The color scheme on the drawings is what you are going to be using I like it too. I like the natural "earth tones" they seem to blend very nicely with your design.

Living up to my user name,

dazed

Yup I also like the last ones better.

Dazed and McCall, thanks for the feedback. BTW McCall, I really love the looks of your room!

I realize I have been pretty slow w/ updates, but my time has been consumed by building a playset for my kids, and trying to get my body back into race shape after being sick. The playset is almost complete, so I should be starting to do work in the room shortly!

Here is the next drawing. This is with full fabric on the walls, and with full fabric columns. I may still want to do some wood columns, but I want to get a feel for how they would look with all fabric.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/ht_room_horiz_vert_2_tone.jpg

We are also getting closer to settling on fabric colors (I need to take pics). But the darker color will be 'Coffee Bean' and the lighter color will likely be 'Straw'. Both of them from the GOM Anchorage style. The ceiling will either be a dark brown, black, or maybe even the dark sky looking blue(if it would go).

Any thoughts or suggestions?

Here is the next sketch. Here I plan on using vertical panels w/ a beveled edge butted together. These panels would cover 2/3rds of the wall, leaving drywall exposed at the top. We would paint the remaining drywall the same color of our existing ceiling, and likely use the GOM Anchorage Coffee Bean color (dark brown) for the fabric.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_finished_phase1/ht_room_horiz_vert_2_tone.jpg

You room looks great and is going to look better. Don't worry about the mistakes you made in the design. You can work around them -- don't worry. I changed my room 3 times before we came up with a design that worked. Lots of hours wasted but in the end I'm very happy with the results :) Hiring bpape was one of the smartest things I did. He helped me out more that you know with my room.

I like the idea pictured above. It has some interest with the different panel colors vs. all one color.

I love the look of your Wet Bar. I sent a pic to my wife. Ours will very be similar to yours but with a darker Mocha stain (like all the stuff at Pottery Barn and Crate & Barrel these days). We're even considering the black granite counter-top.

BTW -- I have a ton of GOM Anchorage Coffee Bean left over from my build if you are interested in taking it off my hands :D I'm not sure how much but definitely 20+ yards. This is what happens with you change from 100% full-paneled walls to a fewer panel design). PM me if you are interested and I'll find out exactly how much I have left.

You room looks great and is going to look better. Don't worry about the mistakes you made in the design. You can work around them -- don't worry. I changed my room 3 times before we came up with a design that worked. Lots of hours wasted but in the end I'm very happy with the results :) Hiring bpape was one of the smartest things I did. He helped me out more that you know with my room.
Thanks! Hiring bpape was one of the smartest things I did as well. He came over to my house prior to sheetrock going up and set me straight on a ton of issues. I am looking forward to getting his acoustical design implemented as I've never really experienced a nicely treated room.

I like the idea pictured above. It has some interest with the different panel colors vs. all one color.
I think that is my favorite so far as well. There are some details to work out with it, such as exactly which fabric colors to go with, whether to do wood for the column tops/bottoms and also whether to put trim in or not, and if so whether to paint it or stain it. I have zero experience with finish wood work, so I am hesitant, but after seeing everything you and others on this forum has done, I am quite motivated ;-)

I love the look of your Wet Bar. I sent a pic to my wife. Ours will very be similar to yours but with a darker Mocha stain (like all the stuff at Pottery Barn and Crate & Barrel these days). We're even considering the black granite counter-top.
Let me know if you want some other pictures or fuller resolution shots of the wetbar. I dig the granite, but damn it was expensive. My buddy topped his full bar off with 2' granite tiles for much cheaper, and it looks really nice as well.

Thanks! Hiring bpape was one of the smartest things I did as well. He came over to my house prior to sheetrock going up and set me straight on a ton of issues. I am looking forward to getting his acoustical design implemented as I've never really experienced a nicely treated room.
You had Bryan at your house? That's great. Guess it helps to have him in your backyard :) You'll enjoy the treated room. It makes it so much easier to hear the dialog during a movie and not be blown away during action sequences.


Let me know if you want some other pictures or fuller resolution shots of the wetbar. I dig the granite, but damn it was expensive. My buddy topped his full bar off with 2' granite tiles for much cheaper, and it looks really nice as well. I'm with you on the price of granite. To do our 7' wide wetbar in 3cm granite, the best price I could get for Absolute Black was about $900. I'm actually thinking of making a custom Maple top (for a fraction of the cost). I saw something like this in a restaurant and it looked pretty nice. With 4 coats of poly, it should be okay. Basically the jury is still out. I considered the granite tile (and it's been done by a number of guys on this forum with great results). However, the wife is worried the grout lines will get dirty too easily.

You had Bryan at your house? That's great. Guess it helps to have him in your backyard :) You'll enjoy the treated room. It makes it so much easier to hear the dialog during a movie and not be blown away during action sequences.

Yeah it is nice having him in the area. ;-)


I'm with you on the price of granite. To do our 7' wide wetbar in 3cm granite, the best price I could get for Absolute Black was about $900. I'm actually thinking of making a custom Maple top (for a fraction of the cost). I saw something like this in a restaurant and it looked pretty nice. With 4 coats of poly, it should be okay. Basically the jury is still out. I considered the granite tile (and it's been done by a number of guys on this forum with great results). However, the wife is worried the grout lines will get dirty too easily.

My buddy just used dark grout. He is even thinking about using some coffee grounds on it to make it darker. But I guess the dirt will still be there, just less visible. A custom maple top would be nice.

In researching some Festool products last night (I think I might pick up one of the circular saw systems instead of a table saw), I ran into this pdf doc on How to get a high gloss finish on a bartop (http://www.festoolusa.com/Web_files/Per_Swenson_Sanding_Bar_Top.pdf)... which makes me want to buy one of their sanders too ;-)

That is one hell of a bar top!! It really gets me thinking about a design for mine (if I go wood). I just don't know if I have the skills to do all those precise cuts. I was going to send my wife a link with the pics but worried she might want it -- then I'd really be in trouble :eek:

Man, I agree what a bar top!

Ok, here are the colors that I am leaning towards with the GOM Anchorage line.

The darker color is Anchorage Coffee Bean. The lighter color is either going to be GoldenRod or Straw (the lightest of the three colors).

The wood in these pictures is a scrap piece from my wet bar cabinets (maple wood w/ a nutmeg color stain). I am likely going to make my columns to match, and may end up doing some trim to match as well (although we are probably just going to reuse our existing trim and paint a darker color for now).

Here are the samples against my theater room carpet:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2_design/color_samples_w_carpet.jpg

Here are the sampels up against my current side wall.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2_design/color_samples_w_wall.jpg

So we need to decide between the Goldenrod and the Straw. Any input?

I like the sample on the right, but I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Great colour scheme btw.

I like the sample on the right, but I don't think you can go wrong with either one. Great colour scheme btw.

In which picture? I just realized that I arranged them differently in the two different pics.

ah, sorry. In the 2nd picture.

Aaron,

Sorry to come to the design party late ;)

I was looking through your design sketches and you've definitely got some cool pics and I agree the last is the best of the group. One thing I might add is have you thought about contacting a local designer? There's a small custom install theater shop in town and I had them put me in touch with their designer (independent from the shop they just use her when they need design work). I had what I thought was a great design already but was just struggling with final colors. When she came to the house I walked her through what I envisioned the room to look like and showed her some of my drawings. Then she did a few sketches with some color pencils and modified my design slightly and I absolutely LOVED what she came up with. It was her idea to turn the outer "box" of my column boxes into a brushed aluminum sconce lit from top & bottom -- one of my favorite details in my room.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that you have a great design already and are looking for a little advice on color. Why not take a chance on a designer and see if the look gets even better (not to mention finalize your colors). It was worth the $90 -- some of the best money I spent on my room :D

Good luck, can't wait to see what it ends up like!

Mike

Mike,

You are not too late to the party. The more the merrier, as right now it seems to be more of a small intimate gathering ;-)

Thanks for the advice. We used a designer to help us out with the entire basement. She did a great job on color selection, carpet, etc... We have her coming back out on Friday to take a look at what I came up with for the redesign of the HT room and to help finalize the color selections. I just hope she likes the Coffee Bean color, since I have swithey's leftovers coming my way.

As strange_brew mentioned above, I probably can't go wrong either way with the color selection, it just helps us with the confidence level to get the nod from a professional, or at least someone with a better eye for this sort of thing than my wife and I have.

I've been noodling on maybe building my own sconces for the columns, or perhaps building them into the column. I really like the way yours turned out!

Ooh, good news then.

When I look at your drawing it's really nice but I have this itch that it could go to a whole 'nuther level of coolness but I can't put my finger on it. I keep thinking layers or something. Maybe something incorporated in between the panels to break up the geometric symmetry. I wish I could put it into words but when I see these paneled theaters I just keep thinking that they all start looking like each other. A little too sterile perhaps? Or that it's function first, form second? (I.e. you need the panels for the sound treatment and so you (as in "anyone", not "you" in particular) just go basic rectangles instead of trying to come up with a unique design).

Does that make sense? Ever seen a treated room that used a few layered panels and came up with a unique cool design? Maybe your designer can come up with something that's more layered or more textured (I have no idea what the words are that I'm trying to think of, that's all that comes out of my little brain ;)).

Mike

I just remembered I have a few pictures from when I was first trying to research what look I wanted for my room. If you look closely at the walls you'll notice that they're GOM based panels but in cool designs (I think they even did a really cool ceiling in one of them). I realize they're all art deco -- I'm not trying to push a particular theme, just the idea of what can be done with panels (something different, you know?).

Anyway, I had these on my hard drive but got them from some website that I can no longer remember...


I liked the layered effect they achieved at the top of the columns on this one:
http://myweb.cableone.net/mjshelton/files/images/ht/ideas/interior1.JPG


I always thought doing something with curves would really set a theater apart (it's easy to do rectangles, but curves -- much harder and really pops when people see it).
http://myweb.cableone.net/mjshelton/files/images/ht/ideas/interior2.JPG


This one was never something that I really liked but it still points out that you can do something "different" than the basic rectangle panel.
http://myweb.cableone.net/mjshelton/files/images/ht/ideas/interior3.JPG


Mike

Mike,

Thanks for the input. Those are some nice looking rooms, although I think they might be a bit too busy for our tastes. I'd be up for doing something different and new, but I think I'd like to keep the design clean and somewhat simple. I have a tough time w/ inventing and visualizing that type of thing though.

We really like the rooms we have seen with the chiseled wall look. I think a combo of the beveled panels and partial wood columns, should give us something that will look really nice and different. It won't be different from a lot of the rooms that we see on here, but it will definitely be different than anything that we have seen in person. And different than anything our family and friends have seen period.

I'll be curious to see if our designer can offer some other insight though. She mentioned doing some different shapes of panels at some point, but didn't sketch anything up for us. I plan on showing her pictures of a few of the rooms that I like and I'll show her your comments to see if it sparks any ideas.

If you think of any ideas or find any other pictures of the layered panels, shoot them my way. I am still pretty open at this point.

thanks again,
aaron

Aaron,

I totally hear you on the busyness of those rooms. I was just thinking maybe one little thing or something. Just to be different. I'm like you, I have a hard time visualizing some of these things and was just interested to see if the designer might come up with something simple but would pop if you know what I mean.

I also totally see your point that no matter what you do it'll be cooler than 98% of what's out there and everybody who comes by will just die when they see it anyway (one of my favorite parts of having a cool room is seeing people's faces for the first time as they walk in the room!).

Mike

Our designer came over on Friday. She really liked the last layout for the sidewalls. We are going to use the Anchorage Coffee Bean color for the darker panels, and the Anchorage Straw (beige looking, same one strange_brew liked) color for the lighter panels. There was just too much gold in the Goldenrod. For the shadow box on the screen wall, we will be using the Anchorage Onyx (black) fabric.

The ceiling and side of the soffits are going to be getting a dark brown. It is "Classic Brown" from Benjamin Moore, but we color matched it at Home Depot and used the Flat Behr.

The soffit bottoms and back wall are going to by Tyler Taupe (same color as my existing front, ceiling and back wall).

We will also replace the trim w/ either maple or cherry stained to match our wetbar. The columns will get the same finish as well, with the fabric portions being the same black GOM that is on the screen wall.

I started painting this weekend. Didn't get a lot done, just the underside of the soffits, and the section of wall surrounding the equipment closet. I suck at painting. Still could see some roller marks after two coats.

I spent a lot of time last night, pulling all of the can light trim, vents, projector and screen down. Also moved all of my speakers and subs out of the room.

I'll get pictures tonight after I put the first coat on the ceiling.

Ok, I finished the first coat of my ceiling and side soffits last evening. I learned that the roller runs out of paint after a few strokes, but when it comes time to cleanup, paint comes running out of that thing for an hour.

I didn't get the amount of coverage that I wanted, so I'll have to hit it with a second coat.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/first-coat-ceiling-back.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/first-coat-ceiling-corner.jpg

Also, I went through an entire can of Krylon Fusion for Plastic in Satin Black to take care of my eight can lights and trim, 2 AC registers and a couple of covers. They turned out quite well, but I need to hit the inside of the registers again, as well as the edges of the can light trim. I also need to figure out a way to paint my smoke detector... I can't quite figure out how to take it apart.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/black-ceiling-stuff.jpg

I'll hit the second coat tonight and hopefully not run out of paint. I used a bit over half a gallon for the first coat, so it is going to be tight.

Hey Aaron,

The theater is looking great!

I'm just about to spray paint my can lights and HVAC grills as well. I wasn't planning on doing the inside, i.e. the reflective part of the cans, thinking it would impact the light too much. Was the reduction in light output noticeable to you?
Also, did you use primer at all?

Thx,
/Anders

Aaron,

If you're painting again soon you can wrap your roller (just leave it on the handle even) in saran wrap and it'll be just fine the next day (did that all the time with no problems). If it'll be a few days you can pull the roller off the handle, wrap it in saran wrap and then put it in the fridge too :)

On my smoke detector I found that when I turned it over there were just some clip/pin thingees that if I bent back the bottom came free and the whole internal mechanism came out and left just the outside case. Easy to paint at that point. I also pulled off the battery holder (if yours has one) because it was attached to the internal parts and had an external side piece that needed to be painted too.

If you're even SLIGHTLY concerned that you might run out of paint I would just bite the bullet and go buy some more. Then get a clean 5 gallon bucket and mix the two cans of paint together so the color matches better. Otherwise the newly mixed paint if you end up needing more after you've finished all the first stuff may not match the old stuff.

Colors are looking cool :D

Mike

The theater is looking great!

I'm just about to spray paint my can lights and HVAC grills as well. I wasn't planning on doing the inside, i.e. the reflective part of the cans, thinking it would impact the light too much. Was the reduction in light output noticeable to you?
Also, did you use primer at all?

Thanks! I thought about leaving the insides the same, but I was more afraid of the white insides sticking out like a sore thumb than I was with how it would affect the light. I can't say how much painting them black will affect things, since I am going to wait a few days after finishing painting my ceiling before I put them back on (don't want the trim to stick to the paint). The surface still seems pretty shiny though, so I don't think it is going to hurt that much.

I didn't use any primer at all, just used that Krylon Fustion for Plastic spray paint in Satin Black. Just hit it with several really light coats. I followed Mike's advice in his Shelton Art Deco Theatre thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11392964#post11392964) except that I didn't use one of those fancy spray handles. I wish I had remembered to look for one of those handles though, because I ended up painting my finger pretty good. "Goo Gone" worked pretty good for getting that off though.

Also take a look at Mike's pictures and notice how he has some of the things raised up off the cardboard. I had mine laying flat on cardboard, and that didn't allow me to hit the edges very well. I'll be hitting those again later. It also helps to turn the vents upside down at some point to get the innards.

If you're painting again soon you can wrap your roller (just leave it on the handle even) in saran wrap and it'll be just fine the next day (did that all the time with no problems). If it'll be a few days you can pull the roller off the handle, wrap it in saran wrap and then put it in the fridge too :)

Thanks for the advice. I knew there was some sort of trick, but I couldn't remember what it was, and it was too late for me to search. Do you usually trash your roller after you are finished with the final coat, or clean it out for future use?


If you're even SLIGHTLY concerned that you might run out of paint I would just bite the bullet and go buy some more. Then get a clean 5 gallon bucket and mix the two cans of paint together so the color matches better. Otherwise the newly mixed paint if you end up needing more after you've finished all the first stuff may not match the old stuff.

Ok, you talked me out of doing any painting tonight. I rechecked, and it is less than half a gallon, so running out is slightly more likely. I'll spend some time tonight hacking my smoke detector. It seems built like Fort Knox.

Colors are looking cool :D

Thanks! It looks so different already. I think it will really start to look great once I get the screen wall in place... then off to the columns and fabric panels.

Also take a look at Mike's pictures and notice how he has some of the things raised up off the cardboard. I had mine laying flat on cardboard, and that didn't allow me to hit the edges very well. I'll be hitting those again later. It also helps to turn the vents upside down at some point to get the innards.

Excellent points Aaron. Something I'll add is that if you plan (and you should) to paint the underside of your vents I would paint the underside first. Then when you flip it over to paint the top the new paint on the bottom that has to rest on whatever object you use to raise it up may or may not get marks from that object but it won't be seen so no big deal. I raised the objects up so I could both paint the sides easily and not get junk spraying up from the floor/canvas onto the objects I was painting (happened when I was spraying my columns and floor boards in the theater room earlier in the project).

Glad the Krylon worked for you. Ever get your smoke detector apart?

Mike

Thanks for the advice. I knew there was some sort of trick, but I couldn't remember what it was, and it was too late for me to search. Do you usually trash your roller after you are finished with the final coat, or clean it out for future use?

Yeah, if it's just a regular roller (and I mean the cover, not the handle ;)). I do have a spray unit that has a power roller for it and the roller is about $10 or so and I think I might have saved that one. Although the last color I used with it was red and that color doesn't get out of anything no matter how many thousands of times you clean it! So yeah, I figure when you're done it's time to toss it.

Mike

Great advice there. You are right, black reflectors' can't be all that bad. Who needs light in the theater anyway :)

Ever get your smoke detector apart?

No! It declared victory on me last night after a 45 minute bout. There are three tab looking things on the back. One of them was hidden by the manufactures sticker, the other was hidden by a "warning, do not remove this label" sticker. I had to peel it back to see what was back there. There was a tab thingy, and then a gap which I assume is what the label cover was for.

Anyway, I tried prying those tabs back and forth and I couldn't get the cover to budge at all. I am going to pull down one of our older detectors from upstairs and see if it will be easier to deal with, and then just swap those things out.

I have to admit that the little guy intimidated me a bit when I pulled his battery out and he continued to blink at me. I guess those things have a decent size capacitor in them.

Yeah, I hate those capacitors! Inevitably whenever the battery goes out and it starts to chirp (usually in the middle of the night of course) I don't have a replacement anywhere in the house and I just have to pull the thing down and throw it in the garage so I can sleep. Hoping the house doesn't burn down until I get a replacement battery ;)

Good luck with the older units hopefully you'll get what you need and can move on ... I hate problems like those.

Mike

So I took off an upstairs smoke detector, and the connector is a different profile. I decided I would have a rematch with the Fort Knox detector. I finally moved one of the tabs in a way to get the thing to budge, so I went to town. I finally got the thing apart!

Unfortunately a few parts came flying out of there, so hopefully I'll be able to get it back together when the time comes.

I masked off the inside of the the cover and base, and took it outside along with my AC vents and can trim which was in need of some touch up. I got one dusting on everything and then my new can of Krylon Fusion quit spraying :mad:

I didn't get a chance to do some real painting until almost 10:30 last night. I knew I didn't have time to do the full ceiling, so I put another coat around the edges as they were way lighter than the rest of the ceiling. I also used a 6in wide foam roller to smooth that out, and while I was at it went ahead and hit the side soffits again. Somehow that took 2 hours, but is starting to look pretty good.

When you paint your soffits, is it better to paint in vertical strokes like you do the walls, or would it make sense to horizontal strokes? I think it would be a ton faster hitting it horizontally, but my gut tells me that you can make it look better by doing the vertical strokes.

Yeah, I hate those capacitors! Inevitably whenever the battery goes out and it starts to chirp (usually in the middle of the night of course) I don't have a replacement anywhere in the house and I just have to pull the thing down and throw it in the garage so I can sleep. Hoping the house doesn't burn down until I get a replacement battery ;)

Good luck with the older units hopefully you'll get what you need and can move on ... I hate problems like those.

MikeLol, you said it on "middle of the night". The other night our CO detector went off at 3:00 am. Its a hard-wired unit so I couldn't blame it on the battery. Woke the kids up to make sure they were ok, opened all the doors and windows in the house to air it out, got everyone outside for awhile then rummaged through my box of electrical stuff and found a plug-in C0 detector we had in our old house. Plugged it in and of course everything was fine. Didn't sleep the rest of the night though.

Ooh, yeah, that's a lot scarier than an annoying "battery out" signal. Yikes. Glad it turned out okay.

Mike

Ok, I put my 3rd coat on the ceiling. I didn't really have any bleed through following the 2nd coat, but it didn't look very even, so I hit it again last night.

I took a looksy this morning, and I don't think the 3rd coat helped any. Yes, it is gobs better than the first (I could still see some of the old color through), but I don't think it looks as good as it should. So I am guessing something is wrong with my technique.

I think I have some spots that are smoothed out more than others, and it is the change of texture that is causing some of the marks that I see. I am wondering if I should use a foam roller instead to get it super smooth... or just stick with a 3/8th" nap roller and try not to go over any area too much and try to leave some texture??

Here are some pictures, but I don't think you can really tell that things are off from these shots.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/3rdcoat-front.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/3rdcoat-back.jpg

Looks good in the pictures. I had the same issues. I should have sprayed mine. I like the color combos too!

Bud

First off, the colour is great. We have something similar on our ceiling actually. Anyway, when I start getting stuff like that happening its usually because I've either let the roller get too dry or put too much pressure on it (or more likely a combination of both).

few questions - what kind of primer did you use? Did you have it tinted? And what kind of paint is it?

First off, the colour is great. We have something similar on our ceiling actually. Anyway, when I start getting stuff like that happening its usually because I've either let the roller get too dry or put too much pressure on it (or more likely a combination of both).

Thanks. I suspect it was a combination of both as well. I saturate the roller pretty good, paint my M or W and then smooth out... I think I smooth some areas out too long, and end up with a dry tacky roller doing the smoothing.

few questions - what kind of primer did you use? Did you have it tinted? And what kind of paint is it?

I am not sure what kind of primer was put down originally. The room was already primed and painted with a dark beige. I didn't re-prime it, just painted over the other color. I didn't cover it very well the first go around, but I think I got good coverage on the 2nd coat, just inconsistent texture.

The paint is Behr Flat Enamel. Which I thought was flat, but does seem to have some sort of glare to it when the lights hit it.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/paint-can-top.jpg

I threw out my roller last night, and I'll have to get some more paint to do another coat, so I am open to trying something else. It doesn't look horrible, but it is noticeable enough that I'd like to give it another go.

I used a 6" wide foam roller on the side soffits, and am very happy with how that turned out... just took forever with that narrow roller.

My bad newbie. I just figured out I got the wrong paint. I took an old can into Home Depot and told them I wanted the same thing, but in the darker brown. The guy at HD grabbed the wrong can for me to do the mixing. He grabbed "Behr Flat Enamel" instead of "Behr Flat". The Flat Enamel has too much sheen to it for an HT application. I saw the word Flat on the can and thought I was good to go, but in comparing it with the other cans, none of them say "Flat Enamel". So that was a roughly $50 + several hour lesson.

I am open to a different brand all together if anyone has any good recommendations. If not, I will go and make sure I get the right thing.

My questions are:
Should I try a foam roller, or stick with the 3/8" nap?
Am I ok with putting the flatter paint directly on top of the not so flat paint, or should put some sort of tinted primer down?
Do I need to sand out the section with more texture, or will it magically smooth out with the next coat?

My bad newbie. I just figured out I got the wrong paint. I took an old can into Home Depot and told them I wanted the same thing, but in the darker brown. The guy at HD grabbed the wrong can for me to do the mixing. He grabbed "Behr Flat Enamel" instead of "Behr Flat". The Flat Enamel has too much sheen to it for an HT application. I saw the word Flat on the can and thought I was good to go, but in comparing it with the other cans, none of them say "Flat Enamel". So that was a roughly $50 + several hour lesson.

I am open to a different brand all together if anyone has any good recommendations. If not, I will go and make sure I get the right thing.

My questions are:
Should I try a foam roller, or stick with the 3/8" nap?
Am I ok with putting the flatter paint directly on top of the not so flat paint, or should put some sort of tinted primer down?
Do I need to sand out the section with more texture, or will it magically smooth out with the next coat?Bummer. Just out of curiousity, why did you choose to use enamel vs. latex? I think enamel always has a slight sheen since its oil-based. Plus its a PITA to work with. If it were me, I would sand off the bumps that bug me, go over it with a really good (tinted) primer, then paint it in a flat latex with a regular nap roller. You might as well do it now or its going to bug you forevermore.

Bummer. Just out of curiousity, why did you choose to use enamel vs. latex? I think enamel always has a slight sheen since its oil-based. Plus its a PITA to work with.

I didn't consciously choose it. I am a complete paint newbie, so I just took in the can that our painter used on the room originally and said I wanted the same thing. I am pretty convinced that the guy at HD grabbed the wrong can for me. According to the Behr site, the Flat Enamel (http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/products_detail?prodNum=1850&catId=19) is 100% Acrylic Latex though.

If it were me, I would sand off the bumps that bug me, go over it with a really good (tinted) primer, then paint it in a flat latex with a regular nap roller. You might as well do it now or its going to bug you forevermore.

I was at least hoping to avoid the sanding part, but should probably just hunker down and get it done. I wonder if there is some sort of attachment that I can put on the end of my roller stick that will hold some sand paper or a sponge.

Any suggestions on what to use for the primer? I am not sure if I buy it off the shelf as "tinted primer" or if it is regular primer that I have them add some color to.

Thanks,
aaron

I'd just get the new paint and roll if over top. The only time I prime is if I had a dark color and am now going lighter, or if the wall paint is oil based and now I'm switching to latex.

Assuming you get really flat paint, I can't imagine you'll notice any minor ripples in the paint left from using a nap roller. Or rather perhasp YOU may notice, but no one else that ever steps into the room would. We (as the builders) always see the things that gave us issues, even when no one else cares or notices.

Tinted primer is just primer with some color added. It's made just like paint.

I didn't consciously choose it. I am a complete paint newbie, so I just took in the can that our painter used on the room originally and said I wanted the same thing. I am pretty convinced that the guy at HD grabbed the wrong can for me. According to the Behr site, the Flat Enamel (http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/products_detail?prodNum=1850&catId=19) is 100% Acrylic Latex though.
Sorry, my bad, I always equated enamel with oil-based which is not really correct (although I think it used to be). Looks like Enamel is more the "hardness" and "washability" of the finish and may be why you're having trouble with the sheen. If its enamel, IIRC, then it can't be truly "flat" paint.

I think this is what you might want to put on if you do another coat (scratch what I said about primer - that was when I thought it was oil). As Michael pointed out, this may take care of the bumps as well since you shouldn't really see them if its true "flat" paint.

http://www.behr.com/behrx/act/view/products_detail?prodNum=1050&catId=19

I think this is what you might want to put on if you do another coat (scratch what I said about primer - that was when I thought it was oil). As Michael pointed out, this may take care of the bumps as well since you shouldn't really see them if its true "flat" paint.

Ok, cool my work just got easier for me then ;-)

Before I headed off to work, I hit one of the rougher sections with my small foam roller. I'll see how how smooth it looks when I get home. If it still seems rough, I might go ahead and sand some of it down a bit.

Or rather perhasp YOU may notice, but no one else that ever steps into the room would. We (as the builders) always see the things that gave us issues, even when no one else cares or notices.


Yeah, I know we are a bit more picky than the other folks that come in the room. But given my wife noticed, I figured I better take care of it ;-)

Yeah, I know we are a bit more picky than the other folks that come in the room. But given my wife noticed, I figured I better take care of it ;-)

Yeah, you better, otherwise you'll just get nagged everytime she sees it. I'd do the same. ;)

Careful sanding latex paints. You can hit it real lightly but if you go at it too much it'll just start to roll on you and gum up the sandpaper and the walls. Are you seeing the texture with the windows closed off and the lights you'll have in your theater when it's done or are you seeing it with windows open and shop lights or something? If the later then try looking at it like you'll normally see it, I bet you don't notice it then. If I take an intense light around my room I see all kinds of things but with the theater lights and the windows blocked (which they stay that way all the time) then you can't see a thing wrong :D

Mike

Careful sanding latex paints. You can hit it real lightly but if you go at it too much it'll just start to roll on you and gum up the sandpaper and the walls. Are you seeing the texture with the windows closed off and the lights you'll have in your theater when it's done or are you seeing it with windows open and shop lights or something? If the later then try looking at it like you'll normally see it, I bet you don't notice it then. If I take an intense light around my room I see all kinds of things but with the theater lights and the windows blocked (which they stay that way all the time) then you can't see a thing wrong :D

I notice it with just my sconces on low. It is actually looks good with the spot lights on it. The work light just helped me realize that it was the changes in texture that was causing the effect that I was seeing under normal lighting. I think it is mainly due to hitting an area with the roller too dry and it pulling the paint down a bit... and the fact that the paint has too much sheen.

I'll be super careful with the sanding. I think I just wanna scuff it up a bit to break up the gloss. I had a buddy recommend around 320 grit or to use some 3M sanding block that is intented for in between coats. Does that make sense?

If you repaint the gloss should be gone. I honestly think that unless the rough spots are really really visable, you will likely make things worse by trying to sand the ceiling. I only sand paint is there is a drip mark or similar that needs to be removed. If so, I hit the spot with an orbital sander for just a second. If the surface heats up to much due to friction, the paint will gum and roll. If it's a large area that needs to be smooths, I re skim it.

I agree with Michael, I think you can just paint over the top of the gloss. You might try experimenting on a piece of scrap or something. Lay down a few coats of the glossier stuff, let it dry and then paint on the new stuff and see what it looks like.

In paint, the finer the finish (gloss vs semi vs satin vs flat) the finer the pigment particles in the paint, the flatter the sheen the bigger the pigments (thus you can't get a smooth finish that reflects light more). So I'm pretty sure you can just paint over the top no problems. I wouldn't sand unless you messed something up. 320 won't hurt but I don't think it'll help either to be honest.

Mike

I picked up a couple of gallons of Behr Flat in classic brown last night, a new 3/8" roller and some 320 grit sandpaper in case I needed it. I started sanding a couple of spots, but I quickly realized that it wasn't really going to do much, so I stopped that. I am glad you guys steered me away from doing that.

I put the first coat down, and it looks worse than the first three. It might be that it is the first coat of the new paint, but I am pretty sure it is mostly operator failure. So I need to learn how to paint properly.

I make sure I get plenty of paint on the roller, spin a bit off so it doesn't drip all over everything, and then I slowly roll about a 2-3 foot strip, and then bring it back at a slight angle to start making my compacted M. I got back down and come back up to complete my M (making sure that the roller is not running out of paint).

Here is where I think I am screwing up: Everything I have read says after you make your M, you go back and smooth it out. I do this by going backwards on my M and trying to keep the roller on the ceiling... I think at this point my roller is getting too tacky and is messing up my finish. Should I be putting more paint on the roller to go smooth things out, or should I just smooth out that first section of paint that seems like it slid on instead of rolled on... or start the smoothing where I started my M?

Any advice would be much apreciated.

I don't know about the whole M thing but I find that speed is everything. My wife hates painting with me because I'm so picky about making sure it rolls on smooth. I put the paint on the roller, roll a section then go back over it real lightly (only enough pressure to keep the roller on the wall, as if I'm not trying to touch the wall at all). I just smooth out the edges that show up between the overlapping sections (probably your M thing). But the key is you have to do it FAST. If I try to paint too large a section or don't go back over it immediately then it gets tacky and doesn't roll out well. Plus I make sure that I don't wait until the roller is out of paint completely. You can hear a difference when the roller is too dry. If it gets too dry then it won't roll back over very well because it's picking paint up at that point and you mess it up.

Does that make sense?

Mike

Oh, another thing I like to do is put some flotrol (or comparable product) into the paint. It extends the drying time and lets any minor flaws flow out (not major, but minor ones).

Mike

I don't know about the whole M thing but I find that speed is everything. My wife hates painting with me because I'm so picky about making sure it rolls on smooth. I put the paint on the roller, roll a section then go back over it real lightly (only enough pressure to keep the roller on the wall, as if I'm not trying to touch the wall at all). I just smooth out the edges that show up between the overlapping sections (probably your M thing). But the key is you have to do it FAST. If I try to paint too large a section or don't go back over it immediately then it gets tacky and doesn't roll out well. Plus I make sure that I don't wait until the roller is out of paint completely. You can hear a difference when the roller is too dry. If it gets too dry then it won't roll back over very well because it's picking paint up at that point and you mess it up.

Does that make sense?

Thanks Mike! Do you do any sort of pattern when you paint a section, or do you consider a single stroke a section? I've been basically going up a few feet, back down a few feet slightly overlapping the first stroke, then back up and back down (that is the pseudo M pattern, but everything is overlapping)... and then going back over that to smooth it out. But by the time I go to smooth it out, I can hear the roller getting tacky.

I also suspect that some of the areas that I am overlapping is drying out before I get back to that area. I'll have to give that flotrol a try as well.

Here was my secret to painting the ceiling in my HT.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_03015543000P?vName=Tools&keyword=paint+roller

I was told about this by a friend,,,, I HATE to paint, and was thinking this thing was going to be "hoky",,, but it worked perfectly. This $20 item saved me a tone of time!! The paint sucks up into the handle of the roller via a special paint can lid that attaches onto the top of a normal 1 gallon paint can. Everything about the roller worked better than I could possibly have thought. I will never use any other type of roller for painting again. I painted other parts of my home without the fillable handle type,,,, BOY what a time saver.

I used two different types of paint in a few other sections of my home,,,, Eddie Bauer flat and Bahr flat. (not any of the funky EB finish type paints,,, just flat latex)

I used the Eddie Bauer first, went back to HD for more of the same color for another room. HD didn't have enough of the EB brand, so they talked me into the Bahr brand mixed to the same color. CRAZY difference between the two paints. I had to go back two more times and it ended up costing me more $$ in paint because it took twice as much Bahr to cover the same area that the Eddie Bauer covered.

Needless to say I purchased Eddie Bauer paint to do the HT room. I thought added cost of the EB might be just a "name brand thing" like their clothes, but boy does their paint cover nicely!

Thanks Mike! Do you do any sort of pattern when you paint a section, or do you consider a single stroke a section? I've been basically going up a few feet, back down a few feet slightly overlapping the first stroke, then back up and back down (that is the pseudo M pattern, but everything is overlapping)... and then going back over that to smooth it out. But by the time I go to smooth it out, I can hear the roller getting tacky.

I also suspect that some of the areas that I am overlapping is drying out before I get back to that area. I'll have to give that flotrol a try as well.

Yes, I do a pattern like that, guess I see what you mean with it being like an M. I probably do a 3x3 pattern at a time. Seems to work pretty well. By the way, I put red on my walls and it took 3 coats before it evened out nicely. It may just be the nature of the color of your paint that you'll need to put a couple of coats on before it smooths out nicely.

I'll also second Verot's comment that not all paints are created equal. I used Sherwin Williams. Not sure I loved it but it went on well. We tried some Glidden when we were first married and it wouldn't even stick to the wall, LOL! Cheap is not necessarily a good thing sometimes.

I've used the Paint Mate (they sell it at Home Depot) and I got a roller attachment for my spray setup (Graco X7) and it was great to not have to dip and roll but just roll, roll, roll. I'd spend the $20 or $30 on one of the roller wand things too...

Mike

Picked up a 5 gal bucket, screen, new roller and some floetrol last night. Got the floetrol mixed with the paint and was getting ready to paint. Remembered I forgot to put on my old clothes, so went upstairs and out electric went out! I am sooo glad I didn't start painting when the electric went out.

I put the second coat on this morning. Things are starting to look better, but I wanted to hit it again. I was an idiot and misjudged how much paint I had left. Needless to say, I ran out of paint with about the back 5 feet of my room left to do :mad: My bad, newbie. I assume I'll have to hit the entire thing again... which sucks, cuz I think I got the front of the ceiling looking pretty good.

Thanks for the suggestion to use the floetrol. It helps things go on smooth, and keeps it wet longer. Looks like milk and smells like Elmers, but it does the trick.

By the way, I am giving up on the whole M pattern thing. I am basically doing a single 1' - 1.5' column, smoothing it out, and then reloading and then continue the column until i get to the other side of the room. Then I walk back down and start another column next to it, and work them both together. Hopefully this will yield more consistent results.

3 coats of the wrong stuff plus four coats of flat, and I am calling it done.

I used about a cup and a half of Floetrol in the last gallon I used. This made things a little soupier, and much easier to spread. Also no bubbles formed. You can pick this up at Home Depot. I tried Lowes first, and just got a deer in the headlights look when I asked for it. I assume the local paint stores carry it as well, but they don't stay open as late as I need them to.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/floetrol.jpg

I used a 5 gallon bucket on the last few coats, this made things go a lot faster since you can just fling the roller inside the bucket and not worry about paint going all over the room.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/5galbucket.jpg

The final coat turned out pretty good. I can still see some flaws, but i is good enough. Much much better than when the "Flat Enamel" was up there.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/final-coat-front.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/final-coat-rear-corner.jpg

Glad it worked out for you. Also glad you didn't need to sand. That would have sucked.

7 coats, wow. I can't believe you're not in a neck brace ;)

Good to hear you got the results you were looking for. What's next?

7 coats, wow. I can't believe you're not in a neck brace ;)

Good to hear you got the results you were looking for. What's next?

Yeah, my neck is not happy.

I think I am going to start on the screen wall next. I need to figure out how much GOM I need so I can order it from bpape. I am not sure how much extra I should order. The plan is to build an 8" deep shadow box around the screen. I need access to some of the areas that are going to be covered, so I'll build some fabric wrapped panels and attach with velcro.

I've been looking at Home Depot for some of the finger jointed pine that Bigmouth used, but I haven't had any luck. I do have a bunch of 2x2s leftover from something done several years ago that I could make the skeleton out of, so I may just use that.

I am hesitant to start, because I'd also like to figure out some way to integrate some manual masking for 1.78 -1.85 sources, and I don't want to have to redo my screen wall to accomodate ;)

So with all of that said, the next thing I'll likely do is order my GOM and paint the theater side of the doors black. Great, more painting.

Looks good. I'm with you, when you're close, you're done. Which was a hard lesson for me to learn, I wanted everything to be perfect -- EVERYTHING. All that ended up doing was getting my wife mad at me and very little forward progress on the theater. I finally backed my perfection requirement off a bit and things started moving forward again and I'm REALLY happy with the final results. Plus, I'm the only one who knows if something isn't how it was supposed to be anyway. No doubt I'll fix a few things in the future that won't matter to anyone but me but at least I got a lot of other things done in the meantime. Well done :D

Mike

Just remember that you will spend most of your time looking at the screen and listening to the acoustics of the room. A small blemish on the ceiling will never be noticed. :)

I put the first coat on the theater side of the doors last night. I had some Valsper Satin Black leftover from my center channel speaker stand. I used a 1" brush for the edges of the panels, and a 3" brush for everything else. I think I need to go buy some better brushes. Are those Purdy brushes worth the money?

I'll hit it with a 2nd coat tonight and then take some pictures. But me thinks they are going to look pretty cool. They got me thinking about simply painting the existing trim black, instead of replacing it with dark stained maple.

I'm hooked on the Purdy brushes. I definitely notice a difference. I even made the mistake once of buying a supposed "high-end" brush that was like $2 cheaper than a Purdy and it wasn't even close to being as nice. I threw it out and went back and bought a Purdy to replace it. I'll never make that mistake again. Clean them out right away when you're done and they should last a long, long time.

Mike

I picked up one of those value packs of the Purdy brushes from lowes. It had 3 brushes for $20. These were definitely nicer than my welfare brushes. BTW, while I was there, I found the Floetrol that the paint people were clueless about(it was right below the power sprayers).

I took my time on the first door, and wow am I slow. It took me around an hour and fifteen minutes just to do a single door. It was way too late by that point, so I just quickly hit the sections of the 2nd door that look like butt. I'll give it a proper coating tonight.

I think I am going to go ahead and paint the existing trim black for now, instead of replacing it with stained trim. I'll also need to repaint the inside of my equipment closet as it is currently white. I'll need to get new paint... is there any reason to not go with a different black than what is on the door. I was thinking about using that Disney Mouse Ears Black that I see mentioned alot with one of the sheenier Behrs (maybe the satin enamel?).

I don't see why not. Will you be able to see it much if it's in your closet? I used a different sheen between my trim and walls/ceiling but not color (for the black, obviously the red is not black ;)).

Mike

I don't see why not. Will you be able to see it much if it's in your closet? I used a different sheen between my trim and walls/ceiling but not color (for the black, obviously the red is not black ;)).

I am not worried so much about the closet. I am more worried about the sheen and shade of black being different on the door, compared to the trim surrounding the door and the baseboards. I think I will be ok, since the door has that faux wood grain to it and the trim is smooth.

I might just keep with the same paint anyway, as there is a bit more left than I expected after finishing the doors. I'll paint the trim with the same paint until I run out and then decide ;) It is going to take a couple of coats anyway, so worse case, this paint acts as the primer.

Sorry no pictures and no real updates. The doors are finished, and I put the door nobs back on. There are a couple of spots where the paint built up a hair, but you have to shine a bright light and really look for it... so I am calling it done.

I finally put all of the can lights and HVAC registers back in place. Getting those little springs put into place on the can lights is a real PITA. Of course I got real good at it by the last one.

Since I have my room somewhat apart, I decided I would go ahead and ship my Pioneer Elite 84 off to Chicago to get the firmware upgrade. The firmware fixes the poor LFE handling on the hi def disc sources (it is 10db too low). It also takes care of some color issues over component video. Swithey, if you are still playing along... I guessed the weight at 40lbs when I estimated shipping, and it came out to 38.5lbs ;-)

Hopefully it won't be out too long, as I haven't got to use my RS1 for a couple of weeks now. I probably won't get a lot done this weekend either, as I am racing tonight, and am going to try and catch some of the Tour of Missouri (http://www.tourofmissouri.com/) in person this weekend.

Probably not much interest to you now but to anyone else reading along there's a handy trick I use to get my canned lights in place. On my springs there's a single loop that fits a pencil perfectly. When I put the pencil through it I can move the spring around in any direction and stretch it to fit into the hole quite easily. Mind you this would work if you have the loop for the pencil, I don't know if that's standard or not :D

Mike

Minor Updates. I didn't get much done over the weekend, but now that my racing season is over, it is time to hunker down and get things moving.

I put another coat of satin black on the trim around the doors last night, and also pulled my rack out of the closet and gave the trim inside of there a couple of coats. I am looking forward to not having to paint any more. I have a couple of baseboards left to paint (I need to pull them off the wall and recut them, since I am putting some columns in the back), and I need to touch up the rear wall where I wasn't careful enough with the black.

15 yards of the Straw color of Anchorage GOM showed up last night. I hope the Onyx comes today, because I am anxious to get started on the screen wall. I was going to frame it out and use panels and velcro, but after seeing what strange_brew did with his speaker columns (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11645103#post11645103), I am going to go that route. I need something removable, and I was afraid of something like that tipping over... but given the column is going under the soffit, it won't be able to tip. Simple is good!

My receiver is back! Shipped away for firmware update on Friday, and I was able to get it back in the rack last night. I lost all of my settings, so I just did a quick manual re-calibrate. I got all of the speakers dialed in pretty close to 75db, but the sub was another story. It was way low, so I teed up the gain on the sub a bit, and it just seemed too damn loud using the AVR's test tones at 60-65db, so I will have some more playing to do.

I am going to pick up some of the 703 for the screen wall tonight, and am really looking forward to getting that part of the project done. I am tired of looking at the drywall surrounding my screen.

OK, I am done painting for a bit. There is still some touch up to do (which is evident in these photos), but it will wait for when I open up a new can of paint to hit the rest of the trim. Here are some pictures of the doors and trim and ceiling and whatever. I was an idiot and took some of these shots before I actually finished cleaning things up, so some of the lines around the trim look like crap. The look less crappy now.

Where I painted the door frame:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/door-open.jpg

Doors closed... some unpainted trim:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/doors-closed.jpg

Ceiling with can lights and register:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/ceiling-right-corner.jpg

I spent a few hours over at bpape's place last night. He had a modded SqueezeBox hooked up to a tube amp and we spent some time listening to some beautiful tracks with his Dynaudio speakers. Wow! What a great setup. The imaging was amazing.

After a while, we put my little ACI Sapphire speakers in their place and listened to more music. I was extremely pleased with how my speakers sounded in a good setup and I really can't wait to get my room tweaked. It is hard to believe how much low end punch those little things can output.

I was also reminded last night about how much I enjoy 2 channel. My room is going to be geared mostly towards HT, but I am going to tweak a few things to make it good for 2 channel music as well.

I filled the jeep up with a bunch of OC 703 for the screen wall, and rear columns. I am going to do 1" behind the screen, 6" above and below the screen, and 2" on the sides of the screen.

We were originally going to do 6" all around, but didn't want to completely kill the low end on my speakers for 2 channel, so we are just going to do the 2" behind them. My screen wall should be pretty modular, so it won't be a huge deal to add more absorption down the road if I really need it.

Anyone have any mounting tips for the 1" 703 behind my screen? Bryan mentioned spray adhesive, but I don't want to fuss with something semi-permanent and messy. My screen is hung on a 3/4" thick french cleat at the top. I might put another 3/4" strip at the bottom, and just try to friction fit the pieces in there, and maybe throw a screw or two to help hold it in place.

I used a pneumatic stapler and 1" staples. (3/16" crown I believe) I only pressed the stapler onto the 703 hard enough to depress the safety, then pulled the trigger. (the stapler was about 1/2" away from the surface of the wall) The staple goes about half way through the 703 and attaches it nicely to whatever you are mounting it onto. I mounted some directly on drywall for my rear wall, and to the entire face of my OSB screen wall. It worked like a charm. No dents in the 703 'cause the hole seals itself behind the staple. It really looks like it's glued in place. I tested it out on a couple diffent sample surfaces before I went crazy in the room.

I didn't want to glue anything to the walls in case we sell the place. A 2'x4' section of 1" 703 only needs about 8 staples to hold it in place really well. You can remove it if you need to, then only have some very minor drywall patch work to do if need be.

Give it a shot in the garage first to see if you have the experience I did.

PS. I tried the friction technique on a couple of my panels.... PITA! and it didn't work,,, ended up 3-M'ing it onto the insides of my panels.

Good luck.

I was able to get some time here and there to work on the room this weekend. I tried to use my 40% coupon at Joanne's to pick up some black velvet, but they didn't have any. I found 3.5 yards of some pretty flush velvet at Hancock's for $12/yard, and I snatched it up. I am going to use the velvet for the inside cavity of my screen wall.

I was only able to complete to right hand section of the wall this weekend. I just used 3/4" mdf on the top and bottom bases, and 2x2s for the framing with 1x2 strips of pine to go on the face of that for the fabric to wrap around (very similar to what strange_brew did).

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-pre-staple.jpg

I then wrapped the Onyx Anchorage GOM around the face, pulling it pretty snug. I completely stapled one side, and then started at the top on the other side and worked my way down, with the staples pretty close to each other. If you space them too far apart, you may end up with ripples.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-action-shot.jpg
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-staple-spacing.jpg

I didn't bother covering the bottom side with velvet, since the lower section of wall will butt up against it. I used the hidden seam technique to put the velvet in place (pre-stapled velvet to one side of a 1x2, nail the 1x2 in place and then wrap the velvet to the other end of the frame and staple in place. Here is a bad shot of the section in place. Note, the speaker wire is *not* hooked into the electric outlet ;-)
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-right-section.jpg

Next step will be to work on the left section. This morning I woke up and remembered that I didn't plug the speakers back into the wall. I threw out the white cable and replaced it with grey. I should have routed out a groove on the underside of the mdf base to run the cable. I will do that for the next side and center.

Room's really starting to come together. Love the paint colors!!

Mike

PS. I'm totally jealous of the listening session at Bpapes :)

Room's really starting to come together. Love the paint colors!!

Mike

PS. I'm totally jealous of the listening session at Bpapes :)

Thanks Mike (and everyone else who has commented on the paint colors)! My wife and I are already digging the darker ceiling, and got a glimpse of what at least part of a black screen wall will look like last night. It is only going to get looking better once we get the fabric up on the side walls... not to mention the acoustical changes.

Yes, the listening session was a good time. Good music, good equipment and good beer. It is nice having him located about 10-15minutes from my house... really saves on shipping charges as well ;-)

Bryan sent me the updated acoustical design. The changes are using 6" 703 above and below the screen from wall to wall, and just 2" on the sides of the screen. Also adding some 6"x6" floor to soffit ceiling chunks in the rear corners. The other change is using acoustical cotton on the sidewalls. Little bit better absorption, and a tad more kid friendly (don't have to worry about them denting it with their little paws). The cotton is going to go from floor to about 4' up. I am not going to have any absorption on the back wall like originally planned, because there is just no good way to get it up there.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/acoustical-design-v2.jpg

I already have all of the 703 I need. I am going to wait to order the cotton after I get the screen wall and columns built... and get the 703 installed to free up space to store the cotton ;-)

I was able to sneak some time in last night and complete the left section of the screen wall. I got a bit smarter this time and routed out a groove on the bottom side of the base so that I could snake my speaker wire through:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-speaker-cable-groove.jpg

I measured a little too good on this one, and it ended up being a pretty tight fit. It took some maneuvering to be able to get it into place. The edge of the soffit kept catching on the top, so I ended up routing out a little section to help slide it into place.

Here is an angle shot so you can see the velvet for the shadow box section a little better. Velvet is black!
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-left-angle.jpg

And here are both sections in there *rough* placement. I'll make it fit tightly up against the screen frame when I put it in it's final place, and also put some more velvet behind the screen just in case there are any gaps.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-right-left-sections.jpg

My next step is to lower the screen about 3/4" to allow for the top screen wall section to sit flush with the top of the screen frame. I also want to scab out the french cleat on the wall another 1/4", to give me enough room to put the 1" OC 703 behind the screen. Hopefully I'll get that in place tonight, and maybe even the 6" of 703 in the bottom part of the columns.

Made some more progress last night and this morning. Battery needs charging on the camera, so no pics.


1. Put 1/4" plywood between the wall and the french cleat for my screen. This is to space the back of my screen frame 1" away from the wall for the 1" OC 703.

2. Lowered the screen 3/4" so that the top of the frame is close to flush with the bottom of the soffit. Got the thing pretty damn level.

3. Retightened the velvet around my screen. I built this a while back, and put staples every couple of inches, and it looked like crap. Now it looks pretty good. I only retightened the top and the left side though, as the other ones looked fine, and I was tired of shooting staples.

4. Lined the wall directly behind the screen with 1" 703. The 1" cuts just fine with a utility knife. I used 1" long narrow crown staples as recommended above to affix to the wall. Really only needed about 1 every foot or so... so about 4 per 2' x 4' panel laid horizontal.

5. I put 2" 703 on each side of the screen, behind my false wall. The right side friction fit in there just fine, the left side not so much. The 1" crown staples didn't work. 1" brads didn't work... so I fired a couple of 2" finish nails along the top and I was good to go.

6. I got 6" of 703 on the bottom section of the right column (had to go to work before I could do the left). I just have this cut into roughly 20" x 20" squares and stack 3 of them on their sides to get 6". They are just sitting in the column.

7. I also had to terminate a new speaker cable for the left speaker. It was easier to snake an unstripped cable through the GOM and under my routed channel, and then strip.

Tonight I want to get the 6" of 703 in my left column, and then enjoy a movie. Next step after that is to do the top and bottom sections of the screen wall. I picked up a combination of 1x2 and 1x3s of poplar and pine last night. Not exactly sure how I am going to do it yet... this might get designed on the fly.

I forgot to mention... I need to find a better way to cut the 2" 703. I used a utility knife which gets me close to halfway through, then just used a little pearing knife that I stole from our kitchen. This thing is really sharp enough.

I've heard about folks using a turkey carving knife, but I think all I really need is a longer razor blad. I haven't searched yet, but does anyone know if they make a longer blade utility knife... or something similar?

Aaron, you mentioned putting 1" 703 behind the screen. Is your screen AT? If not, will it do much of anything? (I would guess you've already asked Bpape these questions so I was just wondering what he said.) I'm looking at adding some sound treatment post room completion and had never considered behind the screen (mine's not AT).

Thanks,
Mike

My screen is made out of blackout cloth which is not a good AT material (like I wouldn't put speakers behind it). It is probably also too reflective to use at the 1st reflection points. But I suspect it is still passing plenty of the low and mid frequencies through.

Bryan advised me against using one of the non cloth types of DIY screens (laminate vinyl... painted wall) as it would be too reflective. I am not really sure if the behind the screen absorption is to just help tame bass, or to help deaden the front wall overall. I suspect both.

What kind of screen do you have?

Hey Aaron,,, room's looking great.

I haven't searched yet, but does anyone know if they make a longer blade utility knife... or something similar?

I used one of the "snap off tip" type of razor knives to cut my 703. (I think they are popular with window tint and vinyl guys) You can buy them at any HD or the like. You can also get blade replacement packs for them.

Their blades are designed with scores about every 3/8" or so and are meant to be snapped off in small sections to get a clean cutting tip,,, but they extend out about 3", so I just used the entire blade length as my cutting edge for going all the way through thick 703. (instead of only their tip)

Later.

Hey Aaron,,, room's looking great.
I used one of the "snap off tip" type of razor knives to cut my 703. (I think they are popular with window tint and vinyl guys) You can buy them at any HD or the like. You can also get blade replacement packs for them.

Thanks Verrot! I stopped by Sears Hardware on the way home last night, and found the same thing. They are made by Tajima and worked perfectly for the thicker 703.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/long-blade-knife.jpg

I cut the remaing 703 I needed for the 6" thick section on the left side and put it in place night. I can already tell that the bass is tightening up ;-)

I picked up a Kreg Pocket Hole Jig (http://www.mcfeelys.com/product/KTC-2031/Kreg-K3-Standard-System-Pocket-Hole-Jig) from my local Woodcraft on Friday. I used it to make some frames for my lower section of screen wall. I used 1x2 poplar for most of it, and 1 piece of 1x3 poplar. I couldn't find any pine that was straight enough, but the poplar was fine.

I'll be wrapping the taller one in the GOM, and the shorter one in velvet. I'll put some small blocks on the drywall about 3/4" below the screen, and some other blocks on the back of the front frame, for the velvet covered piece to sit on... or something like that.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-bottom-frames.jpg
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/pocket-holes.jpg

I'm with you on the Kreg Jig -- those things rock! It's amazing how fast you can build up a frame with it. I used it to build a frame to black out my windows.

Mike

Not much progress last night. I wrapped the GOM around my frame. It took forever. That frame was over 9' long, and it was a PITA to get stapled. I noticed some waves in it when I got done, so I woke up this morning and removed a bunch of staples and retightened.

At lunch I went and bought some Canvas Stretching Pliers (http://www.dickblick.com/zz089/03/). These should help me keep things a bit tighter, and also help keep my hands from cramping up.

I'll get the velvet on the other frame tonight.

Not much progress last night. I wrapped the GOM around my frame. It took forever. That frame was over 9' long, and it was a PITA to get stapled. I noticed some waves in it when I got done, so I woke up this morning and removed a bunch of staples and retightened.

At lunch I went and bought some Canvas Stretching Pliers (http://www.dickblick.com/zz089/03/). These should help me keep things a bit tighter, and also help keep my hands from cramping up.

I'll get the velvet on the other frame tonight.
Yes, it is a PITA. Having (2) people helps a lot -- one to hold tight, and one to staple.

Yes, my wife helps me out with the stretching from time to time and that does make things go a bit easier.

I used the canvas pliers a bit last night for the velvet section. You can pull nice and tight with those things! I still used my hands from time to time though.

I managed to finish the lower front wall section at around 1:00am. It is in place along with a long 6" thick section of OC 703. On to the top section tonight!

I finished the top section last night and this morning. I have people coming over tonight, so I didn't get the bass trapping up in there yet, but I friction fitted the two panels (GOM and Velvet) and it looks pretty good.

My wife snapped a picture before I headed off to work... I guess it was in a low light or something, because I can't make out any of the details... which may be a good thing.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-low-light.jpg

Here is another picture, still can't see the details, but at least it gives you a better idea. I'll try to get a shot later which actually shows the shadow box instead of just a screen on a black wall.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-1.jpg

I really like it. I have a similar space and I didn't know if I would be able to pull it off.

I really like it. I have a similar space and I didn't know if I would be able to pull it off.

Thank You. I am happy with the look right now, and can already tell a difference in both audio and video performance. Having black all around is nice, and the bass trapping is really tightening things up. Looks and performance should only get better as I add the side treatments, columns and the rest of the bass traps.

Depending on your space and your tools (i'd say skills, but I lack those) you should be able to easily do something similar. This stuff isn't really all that hard, just takes some time and thought. The design is the tough part... and finding time.

Now that I am nearly done with the screenwall, I'll probably begin work on my columns soon. I've seen a lot of folk use MDF and veneer, and some use a furniture grade plywood. My columns should be pretty simple, basically each column will be ~15" wide ~5" deep in 2 sections that are a couple of feet tall (the middle section will be fabric). I am thinking pretty simple 3 sided boxes and am going to use either maple or cherry.

So any thoughts on whether to make them out of MDF and then veneer them, or just to build them out of a nicer plywood? I am struggling as to why you would use one over the other.

Now that I am nearly done with the screenwall, I'll probably begin work on my columns soon. I've seen a lot of folk use MDF and veneer, and some use a furniture grade plywood. My columns should be pretty simple, basically each column will be ~15" wide ~5" deep in 2 sections that are a couple of feet tall (the middle section will be fabric). I am thinking pretty simple 3 sided boxes and am going to use either maple or cherry.

So any thoughts on whether to make them out of MDF and then veneer them, or just to build them out of a nicer plywood? I am struggling as to why you would use one over the other.

The upside to veneering is that you can hide seems better/easier. However, I think it's more time consuming to build. I'm also not sure it's cheaper, but I haven't found a good source for veneer yet.

With the plywood, you have to build it in a way that hides the seems/unfinished edges. I'm leaning towards a combination of plywood and solid stock (in red oak). That's how I did my bar.

Ed

Working with Veneer can me more of an "art - form", but the corners are easier. The ply saves you some work, (and usually some $$) but the corners are harder to deal with..... 6 of one,,, half dozen of the other. I've always used 1/2" ply "veneered" to 1/2" MDF

The first attempt at making my columns was a complete desaster. I used 3/4" maple ply. The 4'x8' sheet was only a little warped, but I knew that when I installed the "spine" bracing that it would pull the slight bow out.

BOY was I wrong!!

When I ripped the ply down it released the "rest of the bow"!! After spending the better part of 2 days making what ultimately turned out to be a bannana column, I scrapped it and went back to the way I do it when I make furniture. (1/2" ply + 1/2" MDF for side panels, solid stock for corners/front panels) It's a little overkill for most uses, but I'm used to making furniture like the piece pictured,,, so the more robust the better. ;)

[Ihttp://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/verrot/Aquarium/aqu1.jpg

The upside to veneering is that you can hide seems better/easier. However, I think it's more time consuming to build. I'm also not sure it's cheaper, but I haven't found a good source for veneer yet.

With the plywood, you have to build it in a way that hides the seems/unfinished edges. I'm leaning towards a combination of plywood and solid stock (in red oak). That's how I did my bar.

Thanks Ed. From looking around, I don't think there is much of a price difference between going w/ veneer over the plywood. You got me wondering how hard it will be to hide the seems though. The only seems that will be visible on the simple design that I am thinking about will be the two on the front (just making a three sided open box). I was thinking of just mitering the edges. Dunno how well this will work though.

Working with Veneer can me more of an "art - form", but the corners are easier. The ply saves you some work, (and usually some $$) but the corners are harder to deal with..... 6 of one,,, half dozen of the other. I've always used 1/2" ply "veneered" to 1/2" MDF

The first attempt at making my columns was a complete desaster. I used 3/4" maple ply. The 4'x8' sheet was only a little warped, but I knew that when I installed the "spine" bracing that it would pull the slight bow out.

BOY was I wrong!!

When I ripped the ply down it released the "rest of the bow"!! After spending the better part of 2 days making what ultimately turned out to be a bannana column, I scrapped it and went back to the way I do it when I make furniture. (1/2" ply + 1/2" MDF for side panels, solid stock for corners/front panels) It's a little overkill for most uses, but I'm used to making furniture like the piece pictured,,, so the more robust the better. ;)

I laughed when I got to "banana column" ;-)

I have no real wood working experience to speak of. These simple partial boxes will be the first thing I build that will see stain. But, I've been getting into this stuff quite a bit, and have the desire to build some real furniture when I get the HT room done, so I'd really like to learn how to do things the right way. Your aquarium looks incredible! I'd love to learn how to build things like that.

I hadn't really thought about using solid stock, or a combo of solid stock with plywood. For that type of furniture, do you just choose the solid stock on the sections where you are going to see an edge?

From looking at your aquarium, you have me thinking about rounding over my column edges. I guess if I go that route, I am looking at either solid stock or veneer.

Thanks Aaron. I probably wouldn't have designed the aquarium stand with all but joints,,, but when I asked my lady what she wanted her stand to look like,,, she pointed at our entertainment center towers and said,,, "I want it to match those." (right down to the aluminum inlay unfortunately) I built it with very "blocky" but joints everywhere to match the build design of pieces we purchased previously.

When I first started working with wood, I made a simple speaker stand out of Birch ply. Simple 4 sided box design,,, no biggie. I mitered the corners so that the veneer on the ply was the only thing that came together to make the 90 deg. corners. It came out "ok" but I was never happy with it at all.

I'm pretty sure anybody who paints the ceiling in a room that is dark 75% of the time with 7 coats to get it "just right" would not by happy with mitered ply corners. :D (It's comforting to read about fellow "anal's". ;))

My columns should be pretty simple, basically each column will be ~15" wide ~5" deep in 2 sections that are a couple of feet tall

As small as your pillar's wood sections are going to be, you could do the entire column out of solid stock (which I would do),,, or just do the front out of ply and make the sides with solid stock. If you profile the edge of of the solid stock side panels out to the front plane of the ply,,, you will be able to hide the edges of the ply and get the profile edge of your choice. This, however, would leave you with a slight seem on the front side of the column. If you do it this route, you need to ask yourself if you want the corner "seam" to be visible from the front or side of the column. The answer to that question will determine which side/s will be solid stock and which will be ply.

You could make a trim piece out of solid stock to make a "corner bead" and then use ply on the front and sides,,, but at a 5" depth that would be more work/time then just profiling one edge of a 1" x 5" piece of solid stock for the sides of the columns.

Here's a pic of what I mean by a corner bead. I ripped some maple down and profiled one edge to make my own maple corner bead,, but I would have made the entire front portion out of solid stock (as opposed to a trim piece) if the front of my columns were not open.

http://i92.photobucket.com/albums/l27/verrot/Home%20Theater/PA071085.jpg

Good luck with our column build. I'm no expert, just a self taught dude,,, but if you have any questions, I'd be more than happy to share my experience. I have learned many ways how NOT to do stuff.:rolleyes:

Thanks Verrot. So if I end up doing solid stock on the face and I want a column say 15 in wide, I assume I have to join 3 pieces that are 5" wide together. What sort of tools would I need to get that done? Is it as simple as glue and clamp, or do I need a jointer and planer? I don't mind spending money on tools, but I don't have enough space for a big ole jointer. Heck, is this something that pocket holes can take care of since only one side is going to be visible?


On a side note, I managed to get the rest of the OC 703 cut up for upper section of my screen wall. I cut several 6" wide strips and just stacked them on top of each other. I filled the 10' wide 9" high area pretty good. I got the frame back in place, and took a tack cloth to clean up the smudges I put in my paint job when wedging the frame back in there. I thought I'd need to hit it with some touch up paint, but the tack cloth did the trick.

Plainers and Jointers are always nice and they do a great job, but for what you are doing, glue, clamps, a tuned table saw, and an orbital sander is all you should need. If you don't have a TS, you could also get your wood from a "wood shop" such as woodworkers source etc., they can mill the wood to your specs. for a small additional charge. Unless you already have the tool/s, or are gonna do a bunch of woodworking,,, paying someone to mill it for you is pretty cost effective compared to the cost of a TS.

Woodworkers Source has a website as well, you can order it from them and they can deliver it to you if you're in the boonies. I think you can order it milled as well??

Just a thought.:)

I decided to MDF up a column section yesterday, to get a feel for how I want these things to look. My orginal design called for the bottom section of the column to be 2'3" tall (basically 1/3rd of the height of the wall from floor to bottom of soffit). I somehow managed to convert 2'3" to 23" when I built the section. I guess I treated feet in metric and made 1' == 10" ;-)

Anyway, the 23" column bottom seemed like a pretty good height, so I may stick with it.

I also learned that pocket holes don't work so good for box construction. I couldn't get the edges to stay lined up when I screwed in the side pieces. The side piece would go ever so slightly to the outside of the face piece. I ended up just clamping and using the brad nailer from the front. If I end up using hardwood for the columns, I'll need to figure out a better method for joining the pieces.

I do think I will be happy with square edges though. I just need to figure out how tall I want the top section of the column and what sconces are going to go on the front (so I can decide if they get mounted to the wood section or fabric section of the column).

BTW, I also learned to not work barefoot. I dropped a freshly cut piece of MDF (23"x5") on my foot last night. Minor cut but major bruise. I am just glad I didn't have blood shooting over everything... and also glad it hit the fat part of the foot and not a little toe.

Aaron--here's my praise for the pocket hole jig!!!:D Your previous post jogged my mind and made me go get one. I think I am getting a little carried away with it as my whole screen wall is pocket-holed. Great tool.

Aaron,

Don't give up on the pocket hole joinery with the mdf just yet. It takes a bit of practice. Mostly when you put glue on the mdf it makes it slippery :( I find that if I preclamp the joint it helps to keep the edges fairly flush.

If you like "cheats" I find that I can have one of the edges overlap the other by say a 16" of an inch or so (important that it's the edge of the piece being overlapped not the face of the other piece -- does that make any sense??). Then after it's screwed and glued you can hit it real quick with a trim bit on your router and now you have a perfectly smooth joint :D

If you're looking for advice on putting veneer on the MDF send a PM to SWithey as he's done a lot of this and is very helpful with advice.

Good luck!
Mike

I'm not giving up quite yet. I tried some more test pieces last night and had better results. I picked up a pair of clamping squares (http://www.woodpeck.com/clampingsquare6.html) and some parallel clamps from my local woodcraft. If I clamped everything down real good, I could get a pretty flush edge. I haven't used any glue yet, so that isn't causing the problem ;-)

I'd be fine if it was the short edge end that was hanging over, because I could hit it with a flush trim bit... my problem was that face was consistently hanging out a hair. Hmmm, I wonder if I could jast plan for this, and wedge some sort of spacer between the clamp and the face. I bet a couple of playing cards would do the trick.

For the MDF, I am actually fine with using brads... I'd just like to learn how to do this stuff right in case I go a non veneer route.

I'll be sure to ping swithey and strange_brew when the time comes to do the veneering. Then again, they each detailed the steps pretty well in their threads. Heck, it was swithey's veneering projects that made me want to put columns in my room in the first place.

Right now I am back into the design phase. I am debating on how tall to make each of the wood column sections... and whether I should have the lines of the fabric panel seems line up with the wood/fabric edges on the columns. I am making small column sections of varying sizes to help me visualize. I should probably make some sample panels as well, but I don't want to waste any GOM.

Hey Aaron, its been awhile since I've been by your thread. Looks like you're making some good progress. Make sure you post some pics of the columns! On the joinery, have you considered using biscuits?

Hey Aaron, its been awhile since I've been by your thread. Looks like you're making some good progress. Make sure you post some pics of the columns! On the joinery, have you considered using biscuits?

I was afraid you went into hiding after getting your room done ;-) I'll post some pics when I start building the actual columns. Right now I am just putting a couple things together to get an idea of size/style and also to get some experience on how to do them.

I've thought about doing biscuits, but I don't have a biscuit cutter. If I can cut them with a router I'd be willing to give it a try. I thought about picking one up, but I am hesitant, because I am contemplating getting a Festool Domino at some point, which would completely remove the need for a biscuit joiner. The Domino is pricey as hell though, but Festool's stuff is top notch. I am already hooked.

Aaron,

Looks like you've got some decisions to make on the veneer or ply. The cost to do both is about the same but here are a few items to consider:

1) Sheet of MDF is $20. If you mess up the column before you veneer, your out very little (except your time). I had to remake 4 of my 6 columns (long story) so it was not much money wasted on the re-do.

2) I used wood glue, brads and a piece of ripped down 2x4 (final piece was 1.5" x 1.5") on my columns. It worked out pretty well and was solid as a rock. They can get a bit heavy but I managed to carry them up and down my stairs about 4-5 times during the HT build process without any issue (other than being a little winded once I reached my destination).

3) Veneer allows you to cover up a TON of mistakes. I learned Mike's technique of trimming them down with a router trim bit a little too late when I built my columns. I had to take some of the lows and fill them in with bondo. A major PITA because of the mess and the time involved but you would never know about it looking at them now. I used the router trim technique on my star ceiling unit and I built that in record time.

4) With veneer, it is easier to pick just the right section out of the piece of veneer to make everything look just perfect. There might be a bad place, etc you want to avoid and it is easy to cut the veneer wide and trim that part off.

5) The only issue I've found is the extra steps to veneer do take a bit more time.

Oh and I follow you on wearing shoes when working in the garage. I did the same thing and dropped a hammer on my little toe (claw side down). It bled like crazy. I was in such a groove, I wrapped it with a paper towel, taped it with masking tape and continued my work on the wood piece (something for the HT but can't remember what it was). It was not until later that eve after I finished (probably 1am) that I looked down, saw that the paper towel was all red and finally took a look at the damage. All I can say is its over a year later and my toe nail is finally grown out. I always wear shoes now :D

Good luck at whatever you decide.

Thanks Steve.

I am definitely leaning towards veneer at this point. Like you mentioned above, I can make much cheaper mistakes w/ the mdf. The other thing that I am liking about the veneer (vs. hardwood) is that I won't have any lines or places where the grain doesn't match up due to joining more narrow pieces of stock. Plus, I just want to learn how to do it.

You mentioned Mike's router trim trick... is this just using a flush trim bit to clean things up the edges, or is there something more involved than that?

You mentioned Mike's router trim trick... is this just using a flush trim bit to clean things up the edges, or is there something more involved than that?
Thats it. Simple and saves a lot of time. I used this technique on my DIY speakers as well and it worked out great. Get ready for a big mess, though.

I am contemplating getting a Festool Domino at some point, which would completely remove the need for a biscuit joiner. The Domino is pricey as hell though, but Festool's stuff is top notch. I am already hooked.I hear you on the Domino - I've had my eye on that for awhile. I just don't have a project to justify it at the moment. My wife has been talking about built-ins in the Family room, so that might be my ticket ;)

I hear you on the Domino - I've had my eye on that for awhile. I just don't have a project to justify it at the moment. My wife has been talking about built-ins in the Family room, so that might be my ticket ;)


I'll let you know how it is, I just got word that mine just showed up today ;-) I figured I can use it now for the columns and frames, and also planning on building some built-ins, and other furniture in the future, so I ordered one up on Friday. You guys gave me the bug to get into some woodworking, which shocks the heck out of me, since I got a D in shop when I was in school.

I have been so happy with my Festool purchases so far. Yes they are pricey as hell, but the quality of these tools are unbelievable. The dust collection works so well on the saw and router, that I don't even bother taking things outside. I just cut and route away in the unfinished area of my basement... very little cleanup afterwards. So I am not too worried about the veneer trimming mess that Steve warned me about ;-)

Wow! I'm totally jealous -- Festool! I'm quite impressed :D

Yeah, I didn't do so hot in shop either but now I love woodworking, whoda thunk!

Can't wait to hear how the domino works for ya.

Mike

Aaron,
3) Veneer allows you to cover up a TON of mistakes. I learned Mike's technique of trimming them down with a router trim bit a little too late when I built my columns. I had to take some of the lows and fill them in with bondo. A major PITA because of the mess and the time involved but you would never know about it looking at them now. I used the router trim technique on my star ceiling unit and I built that in record time.


What exactly is this technique? Does the router trim bit make it so you have a nice straight edge both with the veneer and the mdf?

Thanks,

Ed

Evidently, I have a tendency to pick up expensive hobbies. It used to be just bike racing. Then it was bike racing and computers. I took I hiatus from racing for several years and played lots of golf. When we had our first kid over 5 years ago, I was out of shape and decided to give up golf and start racing again. Now I am still racing (but training less) and am also trying to support my HT and woodworking hobbies. At least the HT and woodworking can go hand in hand, and my family can reap the benefits of both.

I'll let you guys know how the Domino works out. There is always a bit of a learning curve with a new tool like this. I took it out of the box last night and had that deer in the headlights look with some of the attachments. Some of the Festools usually take some playing with before it clicks with you how they are supposed to work... and then you realize how brilliant their engineers are.

What exactly is this technique? Does the router trim bit make it so you have a nice straight edge both with the veneer and the mdf?

When you glue the veneer on, you make the piece of veneer larger than the face of the piece you are putting it on. After the glue dries, you need to trim off the edges to clean it up. A lot of folk use some sort of knife to go trim off the edges. I would think there is plenty of potential to gauge your work piece, or waver from your line doing it this way. Instead, you can use a flush trim bit in your router to trim them off. These bits have a bearing on the top and/or bottom that rolls along side of your piece to help you guide it. As long as your keep your router flat on the newly veneered section, it should trim off the edges to line up perfectly with the outside edge.

At least that I how I think it supposed to work ;-)

Here is an example of a flush trim bit (http://www.woodpeck.com/whitesideflushtrim.html). I bought the 3 fluted version.

What exactly is this technique? Does the router trim bit make it so you have a nice straight edge both with the veneer and the mdf?

Thanks,

Ed
I used the trim bit just to trim the MDF. I then apply the veneer after the fact and trim it with a very sharp blade. I've thought about using a trim bit to trim the veneer but never did it for fear I might mess it up.

Check out THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8003918#post8003918) link.

I used the trim bit just to trim the MDF. I then apply the veneer after the fact and trim it with a very sharp blade. I've thought about using a trim bit to trim the veneer but never did it for fear I might mess it up.

Check out THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8003918#post8003918) link.

Eek, thanks for the clarification. I was thinking the bit was used on the veneer edges. I need to get some sample pieces of veneer to play with as I am curious if it will work out allright w/ the router.

I used the trim bit just to trim the MDF. I then apply the veneer after the fact and trim it with a very sharp blade. I've thought about using a trim bit to trim the veneer but never did it for fear I might mess it up.

Check out THIS (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=8003918#post8003918) link.

Steve,

Thanks for the tip. I now remember reading that in your thread.

Thanks...
Ed

I would definitely try a trim bit on veneer on scrap first. I'd be worried that using the trim bit could splinter the veneer too much given how thin it is.

Mike

Aaron,

Picking up on my shadow box thread. Looking at your screen wall, you have a shadow box. Did you build frame and cover them in velvet? I saw the frames that you built and I think covered in GOM/speaker fabric, but I didn't see any shots of how you build the shadow box.

Ed

Picking up on my shadow box thread. Looking at your screen wall, you have a shadow box. Did you build frame and cover them in velvet? I saw the frames that you built and I think covered in GOM/speaker fabric, but I didn't see any shots of how you build the shadow box.

I messed up in where I took my pictures. I didn't get enough in between shots. I'll try to walk through it here, but feel free to ask more specific questions.

My screen wall is built into four sections, and is designed so that I can remove these sections easily, so that I can get behind for either wiring, adding/subtracting absorption, or thre dreaded time when I have to gain access to my sump pump which is under the stage in the far right corner.

The right and left sections were built similar to what strange_brew did to cover his right/left speakers (I have a link to his further up somewhere in my thread). Here is a poorly rotated picture of the right section framed out.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-right-frame.jpg

That frame is made with 2x2s on the inside, and 1x2s of pine brad nailed to the outside. The fabric goes around the pine, which gives it nice clean edges. I put GOM on the face of this section. In this picture, the face is laying on the GOM, and we are looking at the left edge.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-pre-staple.jpg

Note: how the 2x2 frame for the left edge is offset about 3/4" offset to the inside. This will leave room for 2 more 1x2s and the velvet (I'll get to that in a second). Here is a closeup shot of that same offset, where the staples went for the GOM

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-staple-spacing.jpg

There is enough room there for a 1x2 to run right along that 3/4" offset from the top to bottom of the screen section. What I did was take a 1x2 and staple the velvet all the way down it. I then brad nailed this 1x2 to the face of the 2x2, while pulling the velvet out... this is how I hid the staples of the velvet (it is called the "hidden seam" technique... search this forum as someone made a nice simple drawing that explains it better). I then ran another 1x2 down the far back side of this section, and wrapped the velvet around it and stapled. I don't have a great pictures of this process, but here is after I stapled to the 1x2 and nailed it to the structure, and I was getting ready to start the pulling tight and stapling to the other side process.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-right-adding-velvet.jpg

I didn't have the velvet go all the way to the floor, since that is going to get covered up by the bottom screen section. Here is a picture of the whole thing in place.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-right-after-velvet.jpg

I followed the same process for the left section, but improved a couple of things. One, I ran a groove on the bottom base to run speaker wire through. The more important improvement though was on leaving a bit more room for the velvet section. Instead of 3/4" I left around 7/8"... this allowed for the thickness of the velvet and GOM when running the 1x2 for the hidden seam. Here are both of them roughly in place.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-wall-right-left-sections.jpg

I'll get to the top and bottom in the next post.

Top and Bottom sections.

I built the sides so that they could stand up on their own. I figured that would be overkill for the top and bottom and hard to wiggle into place, so I went with a different approach. For each section, I simply made two different frames made out of 1x2s (and/or 1x3s) and pocket screws. I think I used poplar for most of this, but it might have been pine... something nice and straight (i'd have to check further back up in my thread ;-) ).

Here are the frames for the bottom section:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/screen-bottom-frames.jpg

The larger frame is the face of the wall. I wrapped this in GOM. The smaller frame is for the inside of the box and I wrapped it in velvet. (Note: you don't have to wrap the entire thing, just the visible portion... I usually just lay it on it's face, and wrap around to the back edge and staple there, and trim off some of the excess).

The larger frame just friction fit in between my right and left screen sections. I then wanted to insert the velvet section into place, but I needed something to hold it up. All I did was take little scraps of wood and shot some brads into them to affix them to the drywall about 7/8" below the screen. I think I used about 4 of these "cleats" spaced out along the entire width of the screen. This gave a little shelf for the back of the velvet frame to rest on... it was sandwiched between these cleats and the bottom of the screen frame itself.

I put similar cleats along the back/top of the GOM frame. So the velvet shadow frame is resting on the cleats on the wall, and on the cleats on the GOM frame. I threw in a couple pieces of velcro to help out with the friction fitting ;-)

The top section was easier. I just rested the velvet frame on top of my right and left sections to complete to shadow box section. The GOM face frame just friction fit into place to make up the rest of the face of the screen wall. It could have used a couple of cleats on the ceiling just to keep me from pushing it in too far.

I wasn't sure if the friction thing was going to work out, but I made most of my cuts a little too exact, so once fabric was adding, I really had to wedge things in there.

I'll see if I can get some close up pictures to how some of the corner seems worked out...

Aaron,

Thanks for the additional photos. Two things are clearer now. First, you used frames for the top and bottom of your shadow box. The second is the hidden seam technique. I think Ruben used that for his soffit GOM.

This helped a lot, thanks for your time. I'm still a little confused on how to make my frame wall/shadow box. When I looked at Swithey's wall (the one that's painted black) I just can quite make things out.

I'm still curious how people that don't use frame get nice inside corners, like Larry's.

Ed

Aaron,

Is this the picture of the hidden seam technique you were thinking of:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Figure%20-%20hidden%20seam%20.jpg

Ed

Aaron,

Thanks for the additional photos. Two things are clearer now. First, you used frames for the top and bottom of your shadow box. The second is the hidden seam technique. I think Ruben used that for his soffit GOM.

This helped a lot, thanks for your time. I'm still a little confused on how to make my frame wall/shadow box. When I looked at Swithey's wall (the one that's painted black) I just can quite make things out.

I'm still curious how people that don't use frame get nice inside corners, like Larry's.

Ed
Ed,

To hi-jack for just a sec ..

Doing the corners does take some patience and an extra set of hands. The key is to do 45deg cuts of the fabric, fold the edges over so you don't see the rough edge and staple as close to the edge as you can (so the staples are hidden as much as possible). I also used small 1/2" thick 1.5" wide furring strips (ripped down 1/2" plywood) and attached the fabric to the back with a bunch of 1/4" staples attach with a manual staple gun. I got it in place and then hit it with a bad nailer (not the stapler) -- which went through the fabric, into the firring strip and finally into the 2x4 underneath. That held the furring tight up against the wrapped fabric and no visible staples to deal with.

I had the help of Yldesyde (David). With both of us working together, we got it done in about 5 hours. It was a long night (7-1am). If we did it again, it would probably take less time since we now have some practice.

Is this the picture of the hidden seam technique you were thinking of:

http://www.stargateunofficial.com/Gallery/Figure%20-%20hidden%20seam%20.jpg

Yuppers, that is the one. Mine is different in that instead of the "drywall shim" I used a 1x2, and the other end of my fabric wrapped around another 1x2 to complete the frame.

I'm still curious how people that don't use frame get nice inside corners, like Larry's.

I'm not sure how Larry did his. But even if he didn't use frames for the face of his wall, he may have used them for the shadow portion. Just imagine making four separate frames wrapped in velvet. Two going vertical, and two going horizontal. If you have each of those wrapped nice and tight, with clean corners etc, when you butt them together it should look nice and clean.

As far as the inside corners, mine are actually covered up by the screen frame. My box extends past the screen frame and butts up against my drywall. The inside faces all butt up against the screen frame. Everything is nice and tight.

Ed,

To hi-jack for just a sec ..

Doing the corners does take some patience and an extra set of hands. The key is to do 45deg cuts of the fabric, fold the edges over so you don't see the rough edge and staple as close to the edge as you can (so the staples are hidden as much as possible). I also used small 1/2" thick 1.5" wide furring strips (ripped down 1/2" plywood) and attached the fabric to the back with a bunch of 1/4" staples attach with a manual staple gun. I got it in place and then hit it with a bad nailer (not the stapler) -- which went through the fabric, into the firring strip and finally into the 2x4 underneath. That held the furring tight up against the wrapped fabric and no visible staples to deal with.


The whole hidden furring strip idea is helping me. It's starting to crystalize in my mind now. I'm just frustrated because I'm at a bit of a standstill with the build out while I think this through. :( Thanks for the help.

I'm trying to avoid building frames for the inside of the box. Seems like overkill for something I don't need to remove.

I guess shooting those brads through the velvet doesn't leave to much of a mark.

Ed

I'm not sure how Larry did his. But even if he didn't use frames for the face of his wall, he may have used them for the shadow portion. Just imagine making four separate frames wrapped in velvet. Two going vertical, and two going horizontal. If you have each of those wrapped nice and tight, with clean corners etc, when you butt them together it should look nice and clean.


I get how using frames would make for neat corners and such. I'm just trying to avoid making frames for the shadow box. Although, I'm not sure why. I guess because I figure why make frames when I'll never need to remove them from that area. Hmm, never say never right?

Ed

I get how using frames would make for neat corners and such. I'm just trying to avoid making frames for the shadow box. Although, I'm not sure why. I guess because I figure why make frames when I'll never need to remove them from that area. Hmm, never say never right?

You don't have to make them removeable. It was just easier for me to staple the fabric to separate frames, and then fit them into place. You could just as easily use the hidden seam approach and attach your fabric directly to your overall structure.

I haven't done much work in the room over the past couple of weeks. Mainly been trying to figure out size of the columns, size of the bevel for the panels, and picking out sconces. I've also been busy doing a bunch of non-HT related honey dos... hanging pictures in the basement, mounting hardware in the bathroom etc.

We finally picked out and ordered some sconces from a local lighting place:
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bow-sconce.jpg

They will take 3-4 weeks to get and I need to know exactly where to cut the hole in my columns to get the top of the metal portion to line up with the seam between the wood and fabric of my columns. So I am in somewhat of a holding pattern until they show up. I may start working on the wood portion of my columns before then though. I have the MDF and veneer to get that done.

I also broke down and picked up a Lumagen RadianceXD beta unit. I haven't played around with the calibration options yet, but I hooked up my Oppo 971, Dish DVR and the HD players to it to get a feel for the scaling/processing and holy crap! I know you can't polish a turd, but it makes SD look good enough that you don't mind sitting in the same room with it. I am starting to really enjoy watching movies out of my DVD collection, as opposed to being an HD bigot when it comes to picking out a film to watch.

I need to hook another DVD player straight to my projector and do a true A/B to make sure that I am not imagining things, but me thinks this unit is going to stay in my rack for a long long time.

I managed to squeeze a wee bit of time in over the past two weekends. Last weekend I made some 1.5" wide strips of mdf to use for my rear column frames, and also to get a feel for how these strips would hold up for making fabric frames.

I don't own a table saw, but I do have a Festool circular saw which I have loved so far. It usually have it sit on top of a guide rail to get nice straight square cuts. I wanted to make some 8' long narrow strips, and my longest guide rail is only 55". I bought a parallel guide attachment for my saw which is supposed to be good for long narrow repeatable cuts, so I figured I would give it a go.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/saw_on_floor.jpg

This worked out really well. I laid the 3/4" MDF down on top of some sacrificial foam insulation board. This sure beats trying to manuever it around on table saw, or lifting it up on horses.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/saw_strips.jpg

The saw is hooked up to a vac that turns on when the saw turns on. It does a pretty good job at not shooting dust all over the place. Here is a closeup of the dust that was left over after cutting 8 full length strips...

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/mdf_mess.jpg

All in all, I was very happy with how the saw worked out for this task. Now let's see if the narrow strips hold up to building anything with them...

The strip cutting was last weekend. This weekend I cut the strips down to various lengths and assembled the skeleton frames for my rear columns. I used the Festool Domino and a bit of glue to put these things together. The Domino has been a bit of trial and error, but I think I finally got it figured out. I'll document its usage when I get to building my fabric frames (or side columns). I'd be happy to talk about it, I just forgot to take any pictures until I got to the finished product.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/rear_right_column_frame.jpg

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/rear_left_column_frame.jpg

My plan is to put 6"x6" squares of OC 703 floor to ceiling in each corner. And the the column frames will get covered with fabric panels.

Just came across your thread. Your theater looks beautiful so far. Hope mine will look half as nice as yours someday.

How do like your projector? Did you consider any others? How loud is it? What about the colors? I have heard the colors are a bit off, but the contrast ratio gets you past that.

Just came across your thread. Your theater looks beautiful so far. Hope mine will look half as nice as yours someday.

How do like your projector? Did you consider any others? How loud is it? What about the colors? I have heard the colors are a bit off, but the contrast ratio gets you past that.

Thank you!

I love the JVC RS1. At the time I bought it, I was also considering the Sony Pearl, Ruby and some Samsung 720p DLP that had too many reliability problems for me to stick with it. Given the AVS pre-order price that I was able to get it for, and all of the rave reviews coming in from folks who were seeing it at the shows, it seemed like a no brainer.

I have it mounted pretty much right over my head, and there is some audible fan noise, but not bad in my opinion. My Toshiba HD-A1 which is located in the rear corner of the room is noisier than my projector.

The primary colors are supposedly over saturated. It really hasn't bugged me at all, but then again, I've never spent any amount of time with a properly calibrated display. A lot of people actually prefer the saturated look. There is no way to fix the primaries without using an external device though.

I ended up adding a Lumagen RadianceXD to the chain. It has a color management system, so I will be able to play around with adjusting the primaries and decide for myself what I like best. But I have a *lot* of learning to do before I can figure out how to do that properly.

I believe the new Sony VPL-VW60 has a built in CMS, so if that is one of your concerns, it might not be a bad way to go. Do not order a projector until you are really ready for it though... theater builds take a lot longer than you expect, and projector technology changes quicker than my kid's diapers.

Do not order a projector until you are really ready for it though... theater builds take a lot longer than you expect, and projector technology changes quicker than my kid's diapers.

Great advice that I wished I had gotten over a year ago. I bought my Panny back then (to get the $200 rebate), but I still haven't got it mounted yet. :(

I'm still holding out hope that it will be up for this season's Superbowl.

Ed

fortunately, I don't have the budgeting in place yet for the equipment, but I've got most of what I need for the room. Definitely good advise though. While I'm hoping it won't take over a year to build this thing, it not out of the realm of possibility. And at the rates things are dropping, we'll see 1080p below $2K by then.

Aaron,
I am mainly looking at the new Sony VPL-VW60, but the RS1 has always been in the back of my mind. I'll just have to keep my eye on things and hopefully not buy anything until I'm at least done with drywall and screen.

I picked up the rest of the OC 703 from Bryan last week, and sliced and diced it this weekend for my rear corner bass traps.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/bass-trap-right-uncovered.jpg

The 703 is cut into 6"x6" squares. My cuts weren't perfect, but I think they are good enough. The challenge was in stacking these things so that they wouldn't fall over. I ended up driving a couple of long screws into the drywall about 4 feet up for the leaning tower to rest against. This was simple and effective, which is good in my book.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/bass-trap-left-uncovered.jpg

I managed to get the fabric frames done for the right column, but the camera battery went on temporary death this morning. I am going to see if I can get my lovely wife to take a picture for me sometime today.

The 703 is cut into 6"x6" squares. My cuts weren't perfect, but I think they are good enough. The challenge was in stacking these things so that they wouldn't fall over. I ended up driving a couple of long screws into the drywall about 4 feet up for the leaning tower to rest against. This was simple and effective, which is good in my book.

Why 6" x 6"? Will the rest of the column be empty?

Oh -- do your arms itch this morning? I always try to be as careful as I can when cutting that stuff but still manage to have itchy forearms for a few days.

Why 6" x 6"? Will the rest of the column be empty?

Oh -- do your arms itch this morning? I always try to be as careful as I can when cutting that stuff but still manage to have itchy forearms for a few days.

Becase Bryan said so ;-)

Yes, the rest of the column is empty. I just made it go to the edge of the soffit for aesthetics. Also if we decided that I need more bass trapping down the road, it will be easy to add it in there, as the fabric panels are help up by velcro (pic coming soon).

I just wore some work gloves when I worked with it this time, so I didn't have any itching problems. This stuff doesn't bother me as much as normal insulation.

Becase Bryan said so ;-)
'nuf said :D

As promised, here is the pic of the rear left column covered with the fabric panels.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/bass-trap-left-covered.jpg

All but the top panel is secured via industrial strength velcro. The top panel was wedged in there with a little late night brute force. If anyone is interested, I can take pictures of the next set of column panels as I build them. They are just made from two frames butted together at the corners. I used the 1.5" wide mdf strips joined by the dominos to make the two individual frames, then just used glue and brads to join the two frames together. I used my router with a 45 degree chamfer bit to make the bevels.

The lesson learned is that it was much much easier to route the edges before I joined the two panels. Join the panels, then route the corners where the two panels meet. Uhh, ok, I'll take in progress pics for the next column.

Here is a closeup of the beveled edges:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/bass-trap-left-covered-closeup.jpg

Hey -- that brown fabric looks familiar :D I'm glad it worked out well for you.

I sure liked the price of that stuff over the price of the fabric "my wife" picked out for the new panels. The new stuff was about 3x the cost of the brown GOM :eek: I needed about 12 yards to do my 7 panels.

Hey -- that brown fabric looks familiar :D I'm glad it worked out well for you.

I sure liked the price of that stuff over the price of the fabric "my wife" picked out for the new panels. The new stuff was about 3x the cost of the brown GOM :eek: I needed about 12 yards to do my 7 panels.

Crikey! And folks complain about the price of GOM.
I am glad I was able to take your leftovers off your hands, and help you recoup a miniscule amount of your costs. Your new fabric looks beautiful though.

The Coffee Bean color is working out quite well. I just hope I have enough. I think I should have more than plenty, but I am not likely cutting it in the most optimized way. I should probably do some math before I start on my side panels and figure out how I should cut it to ensure that I don't run out and allow myself to sleep better at night.

Hey Aaron.

Nice job on finishing those columns.

Bryan

Nice job on finishing those columns.

Bryan

Thanks Bryan! I actually only have one finished right now, but the 2nd one should go much quicker now that I have a better idea of what I am doing. I need to spend less time with the Squeezebox and Korato, and more time working on the room ;-)

I mentioned the Korato earlier. Bryan was kind enough to loan me a nice 2 channel amp to try out in my system. The thing is quite large and packed well enough to survive being shipped all the way from Serbia. No box cutters needed, just a cordless drill :eek:

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/korato/korato-crate.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/korato/korato-front-floor.jpg

I haven't had a chance to any serious critical listening, but I like what I hear so far with the casual listening that I have done. I need to go back to using the amp section in my Pioneer Elite 84 and do some real comparisons and decide if I want to make the change permanent.

The other toy that I added recently was a Squeezebox (http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_squeezebox.html?). Man this sure beats using my Toshiba HD-A1 to play music. This also beats using my iPod hooked up to my receiver. I'd like to buy a couple more of these to use elsewhere in the house. I am going to borrow a modded Squeezebox at some point to get a feel for if it is worth the expense or not to upgrade it to 'audiophile' quality.

I should probably get my room done before I start upgrading things ;-)

I returned home from a holiday party last evening with a message on the phone from my neighbor that 3 huge boxes were on their doorstep for me. The UPS guy didn't want to leave them on my doorstep with no one home. I honestly couldn't remember what I would have ordered that would be in big boxes.

I went over there and lugged em home. It was the 20 pieces of 2" thick 2' x 4' pieces of Acoustical Cotton that I ordered from Bryan!

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/cotton-boxes.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/cotton-boxes-open.jpg

I decided to set them up temporarily in my room. I just propped them up all along my sidewalls, so they were standing at close to 4' high. I fired up some music, and thought that I could tell some differences, but wasn't sure how much... I sensed that the music had more detail, but given that I didn't just listen to something without the cotton up, there was that chance that I was fooling myself.

So I fired up Underworld on Bluray which I had just watched the night before. Holy crap! The difference was definitely not subtle. I could crank the volume where I normally like to have it, and not have to turn it up for dialog, and turn it down for the action scenes. I could pick up a bunch more of the subtle effects in the loud actions scenes (empty bullet shells ting ting tinging on the ground while hearing the loud gunshots). The bass was much tighter as well.

I can't wait to get the side treatments set up permanently. If any of you are on the fence about treating your room or not... get off of it.

Aaron,

Just finished reading your thread. Love the colors in your HT. I'm anxious to hear (no pun intended) your impressions of how your room changes after completing all of Brian's suggestions. If your experience of last night is any indication, should be quite an improvement. Thanks for all the progress posts.

Just finished reading your thread. Love the colors in your HT. I'm anxious to hear (no pun intended) your impressions of how your room changes after completing all of Brian's suggestions. If your experience of last night is any indication, should be quite an improvement. Thanks for all the progress posts.

Thanks for reading ;-)

As far as the room acoustics go, there shouldn't be much more changes from what I experienced last evening. There are four more pieces of cotton that go in there, that will cover the last few feet of one wall, and cover the side walls on the stage up to the ceiling. The remaining work on my part is to cover up the cotton with fabric wrapped panels and columns... to make it all look nice.

I also have some playing around to do with my speaker positioning, EQ and maybe even my seating. I need to toy around with moving the seating up a hair. It seems like when I am listening to 2 channel, that things sound better a foot or two up from where I am at. I'm not sure if that just means I need to tweak my speaker position or my position or both.

Looks like your making pretty good progress. Are you going to do a hush box for the projector?

Looks like your making pretty good progress. Are you going to do a hush box for the projector?

Thanks. I hadn't planned on one... but I've been thinking about it a bit after reading your thread ;-)

I don't have a good way to vent anything out of the room, but I don't know if that is a requirement for a hush box or not. My projector is just a couple of inches behind and a few feet above my head. Even though I would consider the fan noise low, it is definitely audible during quiet scenes.

Argh, it has been far too long since I have posted in here. Here is my progress update.

1) Bryan sold the Korato, so I had to give it back. I already miss it. I will be shopping for a nicer amp when some funds become available.

2) I finally finished the other rear column over the weekend. This one went much quicker, but I could only work at an hour at a time or so.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/rear-column-finished.jpg

I was once again negligent in taking pictures while building the frames. I managed to snap a couple before wrapping the last one in fabric though.

I learned to route all the edges that need routing prior to attaching the two rectangular frames together to make a single corner frame. There will still need to be a little bit of routing left to do where the corners meet, but much easier this way.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/frame-pre-route.jpg


Clamp the thing down, and then route the corner:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/frame-clamps.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/frame-post-route.jpg

Then wrap and staple:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/frame-fabric-wrapped.jpg

And go finish the column. I used a couple of small pieces of velcro to hold into place:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/frame-in-place.jpg

Here is a horrible picture of them both in place:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/bass-traps/rear-columns.jpg

I need to start on the sidewalls soon, as the acoustical cotton doesn't stand up on its own very well.

Looks great! So how was stapling into MDF? Did you use a pneumatic stapler?

Bud

Looks great! So how was stapling into MDF? Did you use a pneumatic stapler?

Thanks Bud!

I used my trusty Porter Cable Upholstery Stapler (http://www.toolbarn.com/product/portercable/US58/) with 3/8" long staples. I used it a little too close to some walls, and every now and then it would echo loud enough to remind to use ear protection.

I pushed down firm, and fired away with no problems into the mdf.

Thanks Bud!

I used my trusty Porter Cable Upholstery Stapler (http://www.toolbarn.com/product/portercable/US58/) with 3/8" long staples. I used it a little too close to some walls, and every now and then it would echo loud enough to remind to use ear protection.

I pushed down firm, and fired away with no problems into the mdf.

Looks great Aaron! I think I bought that upholstery stapler on your reccomendation. I have only reupholstered some dining room chairs with it so far but it really has the punch!

Looks great Aaron! I think I bought that upholstery stapler on your reccomendation. I have only reupholstered some dining room chairs with it so far but it really has the punch!

Forgot to say thanks yesterday... so Thanks!

I have gotten so much use out of that stapler. Besides the screen wall, columns, and now the panels, I also used it to recover my pool table.

I did make an idiot mistake the other day. It started malfunctioning on me. It would fire a staple, and then misfire the next. I did some troubleshooting and saw that the little shooting mechanism wasn't retracting all the way back into the gun. I added some oil directly there (stupid thing number one, because you just need to add the oil where the air hose goes)... and it was still misfiring (and shooting oil on my fabric). It was then that I noticed that the air compressor was not plugged into the wall, so I was only firing at 40 PSI or so. Plugged it in, let the compressor refill, cleaned up my oil mess... and all was well except my ego.

It was then that I noticed that the air compressor was not plugged into the wall, so I was only firing at 40 PSI or so. Plugged it in, let the compressor refill, cleaned up my oil mess... and all was well except my ego.
Been there, done that. LOL! Room looks great. I love the column "cubes" you built.

Been there, done that. LOL! Room looks great. I love the column "cubes" you built.

Thanks! Now I am slowly working on the side panels to match.

My wife got tired of the compressor refilling at 3:00am on random nights, so I've been unplugging it... if I remember ( I forgot to unplug it last night ).

I don't think she likes the compressor. She walked by it once and hit that little pin that you can pull out to let the air drain out. Air started shooting out which is enough to scare someone... then the motor kicked on to start refilling it. After a bit of panic she managed to pull plug out of the wall to at least shut the motor off.

Good times.

Started building the first section of panels this past week or two. In that time, I decided to cut some of the acoustical cotton to fit into the panels. The utility knife I used for the OC703 didn't help so much, as it mainly tugged at the cotton, instead of cutting it. I then went at it with a pair of scissors. Somehow the scissors actually cut some of the 2" thick cotton. By some, I mean about 5" worth and I was beat.

I finally decided to treat the stuff like a piece of wood, and go at it with my saw. Festool to the rescue!

I raised the guide rail to accomodate the 2" thickness, and put the cotton along my fence an ripped away.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/cotton-cutting.jpg

It made a nice clean cut, with only a bit of lint thrown around (I watched carefully to make sure nothing tangled up in my saw). Here is what it looked like post cut.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/cotton-cut.jpg

And finally, placed inside of one of the panels...
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/cotton-in-panel.jpg

The saw was a good call. The cuts were much straighter than I would have achieved with anything else, and there was hardly any effort involved.

More updates later on how the panels turned out.

Ok, I got one whole section of panels complete over the weekend. I am not using the most sturdy design, but I wanted to keep it simple and easy to build. I am using 3/4" MDF cut into 1.5" wide strips. The only weak part of the design is the amount of flex you get if you pull the fabric too tight. I had a bow in my largest panel, that I had to relieve some tension on to help straighten out... I'll do better on the next section.

I thought I had some pictures of the actual panel construction, but I can't find them right now... I'll see if I can dig them up later, or just document the next section better.

Here are the first two dry fit into place, that column section is just there for spacing, the real one will be as tall as these two panels).

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels-first-two.jpg

The panels are going right over where one of my sconces were, so I added some romex and routed it out to where the new sconce is going to go on the column.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/sconce-rewire.jpg

Here is a poorly lit picture of them all in place:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels-first-section.jpg

They are velcro'd to 3/4" plywood furring strips. Just a small piece of velcro in each corner. This puts them out about 2.25" from the drywall. Enough room for the cotton and a little breathing space.

I am going to go ahead and start on the column next.

Looking good Aaron -- very nice job :)

Thanks for the pics too!

Mike

Looking good Aaron -- very nice job :)

Thanks for the pics too!

Thanks Mike!

I found a couple of more pics, although they really don't show much. This was the first panel I built. It needed a bevel on the top and on the left side.

I routed the edges prior to assembly, and then routed the corners once it was glued up and dried, as holding the router on the edge of 3/4" mdf is not the most stable of things. I used the dominos and a wee bit of glue for the joinery BTW. The domino makes life pretty simple for these frames.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panel-first-frame.jpg

After everything is routed and assembled, I may do a bit of touch up with the random orbital sander on any raised edges at the joints (some of my 1.5" wide strips were 1.5"+ a hair).

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panel-first-frame-angle.jpg

Then the stapling began. Not so bad for the smaller panels. For these I'd sometimes staple a whole side first, then go to the next side, then hit the top and bottom.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panel-first-staple-left.jpg

In other words, it is hard to mess up a small panel.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panel-first-staple-side.jpg

The larger panels are bit more tricky, as you have to watch how much tension you put on the fabric... and the frames. If my next larger panel bows at all, I'll go to the GPowers method of using 2 layers (plywood for strenght + mdf for the ease of routing). I'd like to give this approach some more time though, as it is really quite simple.

I'll snap some pictures next time I break out the domino.

Your panels are looking good! They definitely take up some time wrapping the fabric on them.

I have some minor bowing on my panels because of their size. I will need to redo them at some point. :( Got into a little bit of a rush trying to finish them before guests were to arrive for a Christmas party.

Keep at it, you are getting there!

Cheers,
JJ

Your panels are looking good! They definitely take up some time wrapping the fabric on them.

I have some minor bowing on my panels because of their size. I will need to redo them at some point. :( Got into a little bit of a rush trying to finish them before guests were to arrive for a Christmas party.


Thanks JJ. Instead of redoing your panel, you could try adding some cross members to help stretch the frame back out. The panel below had about 1/2" bow on the left side. I cut some MDF strips down to the same length as the inside of the panel on the top or bottom, and then just wedged them inside of the frame to help push the bow back out.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/cotton-in-panel.jpg

Neither of those two cross members are held in the frame by anything other than the outside of the frame pushing in... and friction. They really helped straighten the bows back out.

I still had a slight bow at the top, and that is where I ended up removing the staples on the top, letting some slack, and restapling. Which ended up releaving enough tension on the sides to make that top cross member unnecessary.

Thanks for the tip, I will definitely try that when I get home. I was really not looking forward to taking out all of those staples!:eek:

Cheers,
JJ

Gorgeous Build!

What brand doors did you use? Soundproof at all?

Ws

Gorgeous Build!

What brand doors did you use? Soundproof at all?

Ws

Thanks, it is getting there. I used the typical Safe n Sound solid core doors made by Masonite.

The double doors are the current weak link in the sound proofing department. I don't have any sort of sealing or weather stripping in place, so there is quite a large air gap between the bottom of the doors and the floor which leaks a bit of sound... although it is definitely much quieter with the doors closed.

At some point I'll add some weather stripping and go through other measures to seal them up, but that is low on the priority list right now. They currently work "good enough", but I'll want to make them better ;-)

Aaron,

How do you like the Rythm carpet? Same Price as Quadrate?

Which colour is that?

thanks,
WS

How do you like the Rythm carpet? Same Price as Quadrate?

Which colour is that?

We *love* the carpet. Pretty much everyone who comes over comments on it.

I don't how the price compares to the Quadrate. It wasn't cheap though. It cost a couple of grand for just that room. But some things you just gotta do. Absolutely zero regrets.

The main part of the carpet is black. The patterns are brown and tan.

Looking good Aaron.

By the way, did you get my email about that Sim amp that's available used?

Bryan

Looking good Aaron.

By the way, did you get my email about that Sim amp that's available used?

Bryan

Thanks Bryan. I didn't receive an email from you, but I just sent one to you ;-)

I've been nasty sick since friday night, so no progress this weekend :(

I just received an email from aci's (http://www.audioc.com/) Mike Dzurko this evening. My custom rear surrounds are almost complete!

Which means I'll have even more work to do. I'll have to remember where I put some cross members in the joist cavity to support the speakers. Cut big holes in my ceiling, build some sort of soundproof box to place up there, figure out how to mount the speakers in the box, build some sort of fabric panel to cover them up, and trim it all out to make it look nice. Should be a good time!

I am finally feeling a bit less sick. I was well enough to go into work today, but not enough energy to go work on the room. I actually got a little bit of my column built on Friday(last week)... it looks like I might be taking a crack at veneering really soon. Pictures coming soon...

I finally managed to get a bit done over the weekend by building the wooden sections of one of the columns.

I used dominos and glue for the joinery. It took a few minutes to make all of the mortises for the dominos.
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/domino-closeup.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/domino-inserted.jpg

After the dry fit to make sure I didn't mess anything up:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/domino-dry-fit.jpg

I glued up the edges:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/domino-edge-glue.jpg

And clamped everything down for 30 minutes or so:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/glue-up.jpg

And you end up with a couple of simple boxes:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/mdf-back-side.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/mdf-both-sections.jpg

This is where it will eventually go:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/mdf-in-place.jpg

More to come...

I went ahead and took a stab at the veneering. I bought 2 4x8 sheets of flat cut maple from Oakwood Veneer (http://www.oakwoodveneer.com). I think I am only going to end up using one of the sheets, but I wanted extra just in case.

I just marked the lines and used scissors to cut the veneer down to size. A straight edge and a sharp utility knife would have done the trick as well, but the scissors were handy, and I cut it over carpet, so didn't have anything hard to slice against w/ a utility knife. I didn't leave much room for error. Maybe 1/4" extra on each side.

Swithey did an excellent job detailing how to veneer (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7208154#post7208154) in his build thread. I did a couple of things different, but I'd use his page as a reference if you are trying to do this. It isn't that hard.

I used the same contact cement:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/contact-cement.jpg

And rolled it on the column and the veneer with a foam roller. Make sure you get complete coverage:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/veneer-roll-on-glue.jpg

Let the glue dry completely. I went anywhere from 40 minutes to and hour or so. Oakwood recommended to not use a J-roller to press it on. Instead, use a 6" x 12" piece of mdf with the edges slightly rounded over. Apply lots of pressure (not like I am doing here). I ended up putting my arm on the mdf and shoulder into it. You don't want any bubbles. Also make sure to press down really good on the edges. Oh, BTW, I didn't use any craft paper here, but I'd recommend that you do. I had to be really careful in getting the veneer lined up with the column, and not letting the glue touch.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/veneer-apply-pressure.jpg

No pic here, but I ended up using my router and a flush trim bit to trim the edges. This worked great! Some of the paper from the veneer was left over doing this, and I needed to use my utility knife to clean that up, but using the router worked much better for me than trying to use the knife to clean up the edges.

Here is the finished product:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/veneer-short-section.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/veneer-tall-section-front.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/veneer-tall-section-side.jpg

I still haven't decided how I am going to hang these, or how I am going to stain them. Next up is to finish the fabric section of the column... and to figure out how I am going to mount the sconce on there.

Looking Great aaron! Nice job on the accoustical treatments. I think I'll take you up on your offer to come over and listen to the difference they make.

From one St. Louis guy to another, I just wanted to chime in and say that your theater is looking great. I love the colors and the acoustic treatments look fantastic. Great work!

Looking Great aaron! Nice job on the accoustical treatments. I think I'll take you up on your offer to come over and listen to the difference they make.
Thanks! Let me know, you can come over any time. Just note that the more I get done on the sidewalls, the less I will be able to take down. But regardless, you'll be able to hear what a treated room sounds like.

From one St. Louis guy to another, I just wanted to chime in and say that your theater is looking great. I love the colors and the acoustic treatments look fantastic. Great work!

Thanks gremmy! Glad to hear that you are back among us. We have been very happy with the colors we went with. I still may want to blacken the ceiling at some point, but the dark brows seems to be working out quite nicely.

Just found this thread. The Fabric Frames look nice Arron. Like the look of mixing the fabric and the wood. It will be intresting to see some more progress photos.

Also that saw/work table is very intresting. Did you build it?

Just found this thread. The Fabric Frames look nice Arron. Like the look of mixing the fabric and the wood. It will be intresting to see some more progress photos.

Also that saw/work table is very intresting. Did you build it?

Thanks for the comments Greg. The work you did with your frames has been a huge inspiration to me. I'll post more photos as I make more progress... I am slow. I also planned on updating your thread with some photos once I am complete.

That work table came with the saw, and is made by Festool. It is called a MFT or Multifunction Table (http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=9&prodid=492652) . The top is just mdf, with a bunch of evenly spaced holes. The edges have slots in them that other things can fit into like clamps, stops, and attachments for the guide rails (the saw slides on the guide rails). That table is one of my favorite tools in the shop.

Hmmm, looking at their site, it looks like that version of the table has been discontinued and something better is coming out. I'll have to see what they have added as I've been thinking about adding some more table space.

So I did this some time last week, but I didn't get the pictures downloaded until this weekend. All I managed to get done this weeked was getting my column locations marked for the remaining three columns. Not sure if I am goign to work on those next, or tackle how I am going to mount the sconces on them, or work on some more fabric panels.

Anyway, the middle section of my columns are going to get some acoustical cotton in them, as the front ones fall on reflection points, and my overal acoustical design now calles for 2" cotton all along the side walls. So anyway, with that in mind, the middle section is just a simple frame wrapped in fabric.

Note the larger piece of mdf at the top, this is to give the sconce something to rest on, other than just fabric:
http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/mid-mdf-frame-on-fabric.jpg

Here is the piece put into place. Damn it is a tight fit... I may have to shave off part of my lower column or something so I don't have to use as much brute force to place it (I have to take it all out to stain the veneer, and also need to mount the sconce):

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/mid-section-in-place.jpg

The Super Bowl on the big screen was good times last night. Even had my two little ones come join me from time to time.... They now understand the "All hale the New York Giants" line from Madagascar a bit better now.

I had a rough week at work. Not a whole lot of sleep, and was not in the best mood when I got home from work on Friday. My wife went off to grab us some dinner, and I poured a nice cold adult beverage into a glass. I stood up to grab something and heard a knocked followed by running liquid. My 5 year old crashed his toy truck into my beer. My poor beer. Instead of drinking it, I got to mop it up. Good times.

After dinner, I had to go down to the HT room to grab a tape measure. I heard a washing machine type of noise. I don't usually hear our washing machine in the HT room, but I had the door open, so I assumed it was either the dish washer or the washing machine. I went back down there about 20 minutes later, and heard the same noise. Puzzled, I did some investigating, and realized it was my sump pump.

Crikey. My sump is located in the front corner of my HT room. Under part of my screen wall, carpet, carpet pad, and 2 layers of 3/4" sheet goods (mdf and plywood). I've heard my sump run before, and it made more of a hum noise, and only ran for a few seconds at a time. This was a swish swish type of noise, and had been going on for at least 30 minutes. Outside to investigate, because I do not want to have to dig into my screen wall and stage.

Outside, I peer into the drain that the PVC pipe is connected to. Water is definitely coming out, but not in a gush... just a tinkle. I go to the end of the drain located somewhere out in my yard. It was dark, and took a bit to find. I lifted the cap off, and was greeted with a bunch of mud and leaves. I pulled all of that gunk out of there, expected water to start gushing out. Nope, just stood there. I spent the next 30 minutes pulling out two different hoses to make a syphen to empty the pipe out (I am not bright). After a few mouthfulls of mud and gunk, I decided that the standing water in the end of the drain was not the problem. Time to bite the bullet and get to the sump.

I called a buddy of mine to get his opinion. His thought was that the float was stuck. Regardless, my mission was clear, I had to open up my stage. I pulled the right screen wall section out, and removed a bunch of OC 703 out of the way. Moved the bottom section over, and then lifted the carpet up. I had the carpet guy put the tack strip to the left of the sump, so that I could get access if I needed it. There are two layers to unscrew to get to the sump.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/sump/sump-naked-screen-wall.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/sump/sump-lifting-deck.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/sump/sump-cover.jpg

We were correct in thinking that the float was stuck. Whoever cut out the hole to run the PVC pipe through the side of the house, let the hole drop into the sump. The water got high enough for it to kick on, and as the float was going back down, the hole wedged itself between the float and the sump wall.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/sump/sump-float-stuck.jpg

I wasn't in the mood to reach all the way down there and get all slimy, so I grabbed a couple of paint stirrers and made some chop sticks...

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/sump/sump-chop-sticks.jpg

That did the trick, and I managed to get everything back together in time for the wife and I to watch a movie. I need to staple the carpet down a bit better than I did. I just used my upholstery stapler. I only need to staple the area under the lip of the stage, but I spaced the staples to far apart. No biggie though.

I knew that some day I would have to open the thing up. I am glad it was for a sump that wouldn't stop, as opposed to one that wouldn't turn on.

Ouch! Thank god it was something minor. Is there any way to make that access panel easier to get to for you in the future?

Yes, good thing it was minor.

Have you considered piggy backing a secondary pump incase the first one fails or connecting an "ace in the hole"?

Ouch! Thank god it was something minor. Is there any way to make that access panel easier to get to for you in the future?

It will be somewhat easier in the future, as I just used regular staples to put that small section of carpet lip back down, as opposed to those nasty carpet staples. I designed the screen wall sections to be somewhat modular, so the only real headache there was dealing with the 703 to get that back in place. To get 6" thick, I just propped up 3x2" pieces... and they would sometimes fall forward. Also my bottoms section is somewhat poorly designed, as the top piece just sort of rests on some blocks of wood on the drywall, and the front piece... kinda like stacking cards. Next time I have to get in there, I'll plan it before hand, and design it a little better.

Yes, good thing it was minor.
Have you considered piggy backing a secondary pump incase the first one fails or connecting an "ace in the hole"?

I haven't considered squat really, as I don't know anything about this stuff. I'd like to know what the recommended setup is and I am completely open for suggestions. The sump rarely runs. We've had a lot of snow that recently melted, and a huge rainstorm while it was melting... this is the first time I've heard in run in years. But, I am thinking some sort of battery backup would be good, and perhaps a way to test it, without actually having to get down there to lift up the float.

thanks,
aaron

I haven't considered squat really, as I don't know anything about this stuff. I'd like to know what the recommended setup is and I am completely open for suggestions. The sump rarely runs. We've had a lot of snow that recently melted, and a huge rainstorm while it was melting... this is the first time I've heard in run in years. But, I am thinking some sort of battery backup would be good, and perhaps a way to test it, without actually having to get down there to lift up the float.

thanks,
aaron

I went with the Ace in the hole. Which is basically a backup sump pump that is powered by a trickle charged battery. The instructions with this were pretty good for getting all the information you need on this setup. There are other solutions, each with pros/cons. But this one works for me since my main pump is very active.

Aaron,
Glad to hear that it was a stuck float and not a inoperative sump pump. With all the snow and rain we have had the ground is really saturated and you could have had a real mess!

I plan on running a battery backup on my sump, it's on my to do list!

Meanwhile I made sure that the insurance company was insuring my finished basement along with all of the electronics down there! ;)

Cheers,
JJ

Hey Aaron,

Hope your off enjoying your great HT. I have a quick question. I seem to remember you using a Porter Cable stapler. What kind is it? I have the PC narrow crown stapler and was hoping that would do the job for me. The widest staple it will take is only 1/4" though. Think that's good enough?

EDIT: Ugh, I see in this link (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12614236#post12614236) your using the PC upholstery stapler. Any opinion on whether I can use the narrow crown staples?

I think I have read about folk who have used the narrower stapler. I have that one as well, but have only used it for helping pin some 2" thick OC703 to the drywall on my screen wall.

I would much prefer to use the normal uphosltery staples, as you will be able to use less of them, you won't have to worry about ripples as much, and given that they are shorter (I think, the narrow ones that I have are pretty long)... which should make them easier to pull out when you make mistakes.

You can always just try the one you have and see how it works out, but I think you will be much happier with the other one.

Glad that all turned out OK Aaron. I think when you get all done, we need to have a little gathering at your place to officially 'geek it out.'

Bryan

Glad that all turned out OK Aaron. I think when you get all done, we need to have a little gathering at your place to officially 'geek it out.'

Yes, I am glad it worked out as well, I've heard the sump run a couple of more times since then, so I am sleeping better on that one.

Definitely going to have a gathering when I get it all done. Unfortunately, work has remained really crazy and I haven't been able to do any work in the room. I am hoping to get back at it this weekend.

So other than the emergency surgery that I had to do on the screen wall, I have only made minor minor progress in the past couple of weeks.

What did I do? Well, I had two full sheets of mdf propped up in my garage forever, and I broke em all down.

One sheet I cut into 1.5" wide strips to use for the panels. I documented how I've done that in a previous post... Cutting some narrow strips. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12265352&postcount=166)

I broke the other big sheet down into roughly 2' x 4' rectangles. I'll be able to use those smaller sheets to finish up my columns. I lugged my saw and vac up to the garage and cut that up in no time. If it wasn't so darn cold, I would have measured and cut out the sizes I needed exactly, but I can do that down in my basement with these smaller sheets.

The process was super simple. I used a piece of that foam insulation stuff that goes on the side of houses. Lay the foam on the floor, and lower the MDF sheet on top of it (no heavy lifting here, I just had the mdf propped on the wall, and lowered it down).

I put a mark at the halfway point, and used a square to place my guide rail right where I wanted to cut... and cut the sheet in half.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/sheet-in-half.jpg

Followed the same step to cut the other pieces.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/sheet-rail-in-place.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/sheet-starting-saw.jpg

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/sheet-saw-moving.jpg

and done...

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/sheet-quartered.jpg

So that is what I got done the past couple of weeks. Maybe this weekend I can make something out of that...

The showed up last week, but I finally got around to uploading some pictures.

I am using ACI (http://www.audioc.com)speakers all around. I have been extremely happy with these speakers.

For my side surrounds, I am using their smaller Emerald XL (http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/emeraldxl/emeraldxl.htm) as opposed to the Sapphire XLs (http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/sapphirexl/sapphirexl.htm) and the Sapphire XLC (http://www.audioc.com/speakers1/xlc/xlc.htm) that I am using up front.

I wanted a 7.1 system, but struggled with what to use for my rear surrounds, as I don't have a good mounting location available. After speaking with Mike Dzurko from ACI and Bryan Pape, we decided that the best option was going to be mounting a pair of custom Emerald XLs into the joist cavity of my ceiling.

They showed up at my house last week. They do a darn good job at packing their speakers BTW.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/custom_speakers/custom_speaker_packed_foam.jpg

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/custom_speakers/custom_speaker_packed.jpg

Unwrapping this thing made me think I did something wrong, and I was in the same room as Dexter:

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/custom_speakers/wrapped.jpg

I didn't need a fancy finish, I had them paint the mdf black though, so I don't have to worry about anything showing through the speaker cloth once I mount them.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/custom_speakers/angle.jpg

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/custom_speakers/backside.jpg

I had to try them out for a bit... so I put them in a temporary location. They sounded pretty sweet. These little thing would work well as mains in a HT room.
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/custom_speakers/on-stand.jpg

My plan is to make some double layer GG sammiched MDF boxes to mount these in at an angle, cut a couple of holes in the ceiling, mount them in the joist cavity, seal up the edges, and cover with some sort of trim and speaker cloth... not sure when I will get to that or exactly how I am going to do it, but that is the plan ;-)





ACI built me up a pair of custom Emeralds. They moved the port to the front, and changed to X-over to deal with the boundary conditions.

Sweet! Few things in life beat unpacking a new box of AV gear.

Hinni- one thing you mght consider is a float-less sump pump. I have had one in my last two houses. No floats to get stuck. It turns on by the amount of water weight sitting on top of it. I highly recommend them.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/sheet-saw-moving.jpgA couple quick questions...

Does the Festool system really produce that little dust, and which dust extractor are you using? It looks like you vacuumed everything clean in between pictures. ;)

Have you used the dust extractor with another manufacturer's table saw and/or miter saw? It looks like Festool only makes "hand" tools, from what I've been able to find so far, and I'd rather not replace my DeWalt table saw and 12" sliding miter, but would like something that works better than a Craftsman shop vac for collecting dust.

Thanks!

Sweet! Few things in life beat unpacking a new box of AV gear.

Tis a great feeling. I also like getting packages from Amazon with movies in it ;-)

Hinni- one thing you mght consider is a float-less sump pump. I have had one in my last two houses. No floats to get stuck. It turns on by the amount of water weight sitting on top of it. I highly recommend them.

Thanks, I'll keep that in mind too for when I have to get in there again. I don't think there are any other obstacles in the sump though that would cause it to stick. At least it stuck in the on position ;-)

A couple quick questions...

Does the Festool system really produce that little dust, and which dust extractor are you using? It looks like you vacuumed everything clean in between pictures. ;)


Yes, it is pretty crazy. I didn't vacuum anything up until I was completely finished, and the only dust that I needed to vac was in the kerf marks of my sacrificial foam board. I use this saw in my unfinished basement. There will still be some dust depending on the cut you make... usually just a wee little poof at the end of the cut (if any). The most dust gets created when you just take the blade down the edge of a piece of mdf to trim it off a hair.

The sander I have is pretty much completely dust free. Like you don't think it is actually working.

The router can be a tad messy. I have a little attachment that I put onto the end of it that really helps with the dust. I am not swimming in the dust when I use the router, but it is there.


Have you used the dust extractor with another manufacturer's table saw and/or miter saw? It looks like Festool only makes "hand" tools, from what I've been able to find so far, and I'd rather not replace my DeWalt table saw and 12" sliding miter, but would like something that works better than a Craftsman shop vac for collecting dust.

I have used the vacuum with my Dewalt compound miter saw... it helped a bit, but wasn't up to par with what you get with the Festool tools. The key with the lack of dust with the Festool tools is the way they designed the tools, not the vac in and of itself. The vacuum is great, but you can use a different shop vac with the tools and get the same results (I've heard of others using the Fein vac or something like that... you just need the right size hose and adapters). With that said, I'll likely buy another one of their smaller vacs to keep in my garage so I don't have to lug the other one around. As an FYI, the vacs have that auto on feature, where the vac kicks on when you turn the tool on.

The only downside I've seen with Festool is that the tools are pricey... and you really need to buy into the whole system... and then you get used to the quality... and that starts a slippery slope of buying more tools. Tis addictive.

The key with the lack of dust with the Festool tools is the way they designed the tools, not the vac in and of itself.Thanks, that's what I figured. If I bought one, I wanted to be able to use the vacuum system for multiple tools so that I didn't have to have two on hand.

Thanks again!

Eek. I realized last night that it has been almost a month since I've posted anything, and I don't want my thread ending up in the archives.

I haven't made much more progress. Over a few weeks ago, it was really nice outside, and I took the saw outside and cut up everything I needed for the columns... and it wasn't until last night that I put one small section of column together.

I've been pretty busy with work, and painting a bathroom, but I am going to start getting back down to work on the room pretty soon.

Hmmm, I've officially entered sloth mode. I need to get out of the one post a month trend. I actually got some HT room work done this weekend. I took the day off Friday to get a ride in, but I forgot to recheck the weather the night before, and ended up with too much rain to contend with. I had a bunch of other honey-dos to attend to, but snuck in some HT work as well.

I had cut the mdf for my columns a while back, but I hadn't assembled them yet. I managed to get them all dominoed and glued up over the past couple of days. I only took a couple of pictures, and they are not too exciting anyway. If I get get unlazy, perhaps I will post them.

But anyhoo, I have 3 columns all prepped and waiting for some veneer. Hopefully I will get to that within the next month...

In case anyone still cares, I'd figure an update was in order.

At some point in the past couple of months, I got all of my columns veneered! They are now waiting on the finish.

I've been playing with some dye stain on some scrap pieces. The first I just put the stain on, and it seemed to splotchy on the maple veneer. I am now trying to use a wash coat, followed by a few coats of the stain. I also need to play with the ratio of dye to water.

I wasn't sure what I was going to use for the finish, so I tried some pure tung oil. That stuff goes on easy, but it just looks sort of bland on the scrap pieces, so I am now trying a Tung Oil/Urethane mixture. I'll get it all figured out eventually, and post the finishing schedule (and some pics... I know, I keep promising them) when I get something a little more concrete.

Crikey, I finally got some work done in the room the past couple of days. Well, not a ton, but I snuck in some time while watching the kids today.

I managed to do a bit of sanding. The maple veneer was already pretty smooth, but I hit with 120, followed by 180.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/column-sanding.jpg

I am using a water based stain, so I raised the grain by sponging some water on the wood, then wiping it off, and letting it dry for most of the day. I then did a light sanding with 220, and applied a wash coat using Minwax Waterbased Pre-Stain Wood Conditioner (http://www.minwax.com/products/wood_preparation/).

I let that dry for a couple of hours, and then another light sanding with 400. Next step is adding the first coat of dye stain, but that is going to happen tomorrow.

Here are the columns prior to staining.
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/columns-sanded.jpg

I am looking forward to getting these things done and hung... and then on to the rest of the panels.

I've been able to manage a little time here and there over the past couple of months. I have all of the columns stained and finished, and even two of them hung! (no pics of them in place though... I'll get to those in a day or 30).

Here they are after the staining:

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/all-stained-medium.jpg

I used a couple of applications of "Dark Vintage Maple" TransTint dye. This was dissolved in water, and applied with a foam brush.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/trans-tint-medium.jpg

I was pretty happy with how the staining turned out. The wood conditioner was a must with the maple and application method I used.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/stained-single-medium.jpg

I eventually moved onto the finishing phase. Again, I just used a foam brush, and applied several thin coats, with a light sanding in between. I used the General Finishes - Arm-R-Seal in Gloss for the base coats (finished it off with a Satin).

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/arm-r-seal-gloss-medium.jpg

I really liked how these turned out, but they are way to glossy for the HT.

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/finish-gloss-medium.jpg

A coat (or two) of satin afterwards, and they ended just right for the HT. You can still see plenty of the figure, but they don't have that mirror sheen that would distract the hell out of me during a movie. More pics later...

Nice job on the columns! I had fun making mine with Maple as well. It does require a few more steps but IMO is a great looking wood. I went with a very low-sheen clear coat to control reflection as well. I can't wait to see them in your room.

Thanks Steve! I am really hoping to get some more pics this weekend, and perhaps make some more progress.

Did you ever get a chance to try out that turbine sprayer? I came close to pulling the trigger, but I wanted to see how bad I could do things by hand first ;-)

Thanks Steve! I am really hoping to get some more pics this weekend, and perhaps make some more progress.

Did you ever get a chance to try out that turbine sprayer? I came close to pulling the trigger, but I wanted to see how bad I could do things by hand first ;-)
I used it a few weeks back to spray latex on my HT cabinet. It worked GREAT. I will be using it soon to apply the clear-coat on my wet bar cabinet. I just finished applying the stain by hand. I'll let you know how it goes. I plan on a satin finish but have not decided on the brand of clear yet. I am familiar with the one you used but don't know if it can be sprayed on. I also plan to use a water-based clear coat because the cleanup is so much easier.


Keep up the great work!

I wrapped fabric around the last column section tonight, installed the sconce, and I am calling them done!

The final two columns (right wall... there are two on the other wall):
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/right-columns-medium.jpg

Close-up of a bottom section:
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/front-right-bottom-medium.jpg

Top hung on the french cleat:
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/front-right-top-sideview-medium.jpg

Top section with the sating finish, also showing the hook for the cleat:
http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/columns/top-finished-side-and-front-medium.jpg

More pics later... maybe. Time to start making frames!

A couple of weekends ago, I completed a section of panels.

I have a sub in the rear corner of the room, so I need a place for the electrical cord and the RCA cable to come out. I was originally thinking that I would just let the cables come out of the bottom of the panel, but this was going to be a pain in the arse, so I decided to just do it right.

I hacked a little box onto the top of my lower frame that the outlet cover could mount to (just used glue and maybe a brad nail or 3).

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels/outlet-box-frame-medium.jpg

I then covered with fabric, and stapled around the little box. I then cut a hole in the fabric, and predrilled for the screws.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels/outlet-box-fabric-staples-cut-medium.jpg

I also spray painted my outlet cover black (the same Krylon Fusion for Plastic that I used way back when). I think it turned out pretty good.

http://www.hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels/sub-outlet-installed-medium.jpg

Looks like you are making progress again.

When do you plan on finishing the fabric frames?

Plan? I planned on finishing them last winter ;-)

I made all of the measurements and cuts for the next section. So when I can sneak in some time I should be able to show some more progress. Each section has its own set of challenges to deal with.

Here are a couple of pics of the completed rear section:

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels/rear-panels-medium.jpg

http://hinnispace.com/pictures/theater_phase2/panels/rear-panels-angle-medium.jpg

I need to figure out how I am going to work around that speaker bracket on my next section.

I need to figure out how I am going to work around that speaker bracket on my next section.
That looks easy. Isn't the bracket located at the height where you middle and top panels meet? Just make a notch in the panels to compensate for the thickness of the bracket.

That looks easy. Isn't the bracket located at the height where you middle and top panels meet? Just make a notch in the panels to compensate for the thickness of the bracket.

The bracket will fall just below the top part of the frame of the middle panel. So the frame top could actually rest on the bracket.

I am thinking I could either:

Make a little box similar to what I did for the sub outlet. But doing this, I am worried about the staples being visible, or being able to tuck the fabric inside of the little box (and staple on the inside). I would also need to get the box position and size just right.
Just cut a slot in the fabric and poke the bracket through. Here I am worried about the fabric ripping over time.
Do number 1, and then build some sort of grommet to go cover the staples.
Make a notch as you suggested, but here I would need to raise the bracket 3/4", and have to build and awkward shaped frame, and still have to deal with getting the fabric looking just right.

Move the speaker into the column.