The actual thought process behind the pre-pay option was to save us time when production starts. We are running a huge backorder on Sierra-1 right now and once we resume production, all of our time (including my own) will be dedicated to assembly, testing, packaging and shipping.

The Sierra-1 take 2.5 times longer to assemble than our other products because we hand match the speakers and we will also have to do this for the premium finished models. Because we have the available time now, invoicing in advance makes sense and saves us from having to call customers, process credit cards and process invoices during heavy production - allowing us to get caught up with the backorders faster. It is beneficial for us and good for the customer as well because they will receive their speakers faster and receive an additional discount :)

The pre-pay option is entirely up to the customer and was actually requested by many people interested in the premium finished units.

Mmmmmwaaaahaaaahaaaa....:D

I think I got the finish matched for the cherry Sierras. I need to apply another coat of finish before posting pics. I still need to experiment with using a lacquer (I'm using a polyurethane for now), but the Plyboo looks amazing with the color on it! I may get enough gloss with the poly, but I'll have to wait and see...

Congrats! I can not wait to see your work, Jason!

Please send me pics -- I have many people that will be interested.

Well that's email or forum type for us all. Interpretting what someone was really thinking or their intent, such as playful sarcasm, is darn near impossible to do. Did you really mean its not a premium speaker or are you just praising the great deal. Now we know. :rolleyes:

Well, he did use the :p emoticon in his post to convey tone.

Well, he did use the :p emoticon in his post to convey tone.

And of course we're all experts on exactly what that particular one means, right? ;)

The Sierra-1 take 2.5 times longer to assemble than our other products because we hand match the speakers and we will also have to do this for the premium finished models.

I saw that advertised at your site too as a Sierra-1 feature/guarantee, and since you mentioned it adds that much time to the process, lemme ask a question: Why is that important when presumably 95%+ of customers are going to be running these on receivers that can correct by at least +/- 1 decibel, and some of us (me, for example), have receivers that can correct +/- 0.5 decibels.

Sure, I'll take ones with less than 1 decibel difference, but if they were off more than that, ... that's where my Marantz would come in.

The only thing I could think of off the top of my head would be losing maximum volume and/or amp power at the highest levels because you had, say, 2-3 decibel disparity and you could only drive an overall system to the "weakest link" in the chain. But losing 2-3 decibels on the top end doesnt seem like much of a big deal when presumably any system is going to have at least a 1db correction.

I saw that advertised at your site too as a Sierra-1 feature/guarantee, and since you mentioned it adds that much time to the process, lemme ask a question: Why is that important when presumably 95%+ of customers are going to be running these on receivers that can correct by at least +/- 1 decibel, and some of us (me, for example), have receivers that can correct +/- 0.5 decibels.

Sure, I'll take ones with less than 1 decibel difference, but if they were off more than that, ... that's where my Marantz would come in.

He may also be referring to hand matching the cabinets for color, grain, etc.

They are not level matched to +-1dB, it is the FR that is matched.

They are not level matched to +-1dB, it is the FR that is matched.

I'm not sure I see the difference. I'm talking about volume, regardless of what frequency and presumably across the entire frequency range, and I presume you're also talking about volume. Can you elaborate? Isn't the white noise testing a representative sample of the overall frequency?

"Left / right pairs are matched by hand to within ± 1dB and we are including a printout of the actual production line response measurements of each speaker"

Do you mean less than 1db difference at any/all frequencies?

In any event, I'm of the opinion one's going to be best off "EQ'ing" regardless. Having matched Sierra's in a 5.1 or greater setup isn't going to eliminate the need, or at least preference, for EQ'ing. Point being, EQ'ing would correct "greater than 1db" differences in a pair of Sierras, with specific frequency adjustments. I mention EQ'ing here too because I'm thinking when you're getting up to speakers this nice, you're going to be dealing with people who are often going to be EQ'ing too.

I've had good results with Audyssey with the expection of the sub level. I dial my sub to taste.

Do you mean less than 1db difference at any/all frequencies?

In any event, I'm of the opinion one's going to be best off "EQ'ing" regardless. Having matched Sierra's in a 5.1 or greater setup isn't going to eliminate the need, or at least preference, for EQ'ing.
Yes...all frequencies.

Of course the room is going to induce FR as well, but having a common starting point is best. Then there are the two channel folk that typically do not have EQ mechanisms.

I guess by your logic, you do not care much about a speaker's FR?

I know that the cabinets are also very carefully matched as there is a significant amount of variability in grain and color with the bamboo material. I have experienced this firsthand building stands for the Sierras.

Jason

I guess by your logic, you do not care much about a speaker's FR?

How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Curtis, if the individual Sierra speakers have essentially the same outstanding performance, despite the fact that when compared to each other they might deviate by, say, 2db, then an EQ can, for all practical purposes, fully correct for that.

Here's another way to describe this: I'd expect and need/want my expensive Sierra's to be precise and be able to essentially produce the claimed frequency graph, but not necessarily accurate when compared to each other. The receiver, if capable of it, can correct for accuracy issues between 2 or more speakers with excellent end results, again, provided that each Sierra produces a precise graph.

But yes, I will conceded if there are customers who are buying 1K pair speakers, and matching them with entry level receivers, then yes they might need that extra feature. But IMO, that person should reevaluate how much money they spend on each component. But still, I'm thinking that the basic tone testing/radio shack meter is going have the speakers performing essentially the same even without EQ'ing.

..........

Slightly changing the subject, has this been an issue, or is it an issue, for the other Ascend speakers? I've haven't seen it come up, and I certainly haven't noticed a problem of that sort. Again, that could be because I balance and EQ.

How in the world did you come to that conclusion? Curtis, if the individual Sierra speakers have essentially the same outstanding performance, despite the fact that when compared to each other they might deviate by, say, 2db, then an EQ can, for all practical purposes, fully correct for that.

Here's another way to describe this: I'd expect and need/want my expensive Sierra's to be precise and be able to essentially produce the claimed frequency graph, but not necessarily accurate when compared to each other. The receiver, if capable of it, can correct for accuracy issues between 2 or more speakers with excellent end results, again, provided that each Sierra produces a precise graph.

But yes, I will conceded if there are customers who are buying 1K pair speakers, and matching them with entry level receivers, then yes they might need that extra feature. But IMO, that person should reevaluate how much money they spend on each component.
So, do you think the fact that they are matched to 1dB is a non-issue and not worth the time/expense to you?

Slightly changing the subject, has this been an issue, or is it an issue, for the other Ascend speakers? I've haven't seen it come up, and I certainly haven't noticed a problem of that sort. Again, that could be because I balance and EQ.
Nope, I don't think it has, but it is nice to have, IMO (not yours), to have this level of quality control in a product such as this.

Nope, I don't think it has, but it is nice to have, IMO (not yours), to have this level of quality control in a product such as this.

And to reiterate, that was my exact thought too and what stopped me from even asking about it, up until the point that Dave mentioned it added 2.5 times the manufacturing time to the process (presumably including the costs associated with such a drastic increase in time). I'll just assume maybe he exaggerated a bit on that time and leave it at that, unless he wants to comment further. :) For me just one more thing I'd have to pay for that I don't need in practice.

And to reiterate, that was my exact thought too and what stopped me from even asking about it, up until the point that Dave mentioned it added 2.5 times the manufacturing time to the process (presumably including the costs associated with such a drastic increase in time). I'll just assume maybe he exaggerated a bit on that time and leave it at that, unless he wants to comment further. :)
Why make that assumption? Do you know the time it takes to assemble and match speakers? It isn't a "need" but a level of quality and work that goes into the final product. I would be willing to bet you own many products that do more than you need them to do.

This is a very good example of you making assumptions to for the sake of your argument.

Why make that assumption?

Sorry, thought it went without saying given what we already discussed. 2.5 times more development for a feature that's going to be superfluous for most people (notice Curtis, most people, not just me) doesn't seem to make much business sense, in my opinion.

Do you know the time it takes to assemble and match speakers?

To match them? I have no idea. The only time frame I am aware of is that it takes me about 15 or 20 minutes to do an Audyssey EQ balance. But I mostly assumed that its primarily having to correct for the specifics of my room, and correct for completely different speakers (say HTM200SE vs. 340SE). I did notice, just by observation, that the same speakers (say, L/R 340SE) typically result in either the exact same correction or, at worst, a 1db difference.


It isn't a "need" but a level of quality and work that goes into the final product. I would be willing to bet you own many products that do more than you need them to do.

Sure, and before I purchased them, I weighted the gains I would directly benefit from vs. those I'd be paying for that I don't need. It's this exact thought process that at least partially explains why my front L/R is still 340SE's. But I look at that from the positive perspective and see that as a commendation to Dave for making such a wonderful speaker (the 340SE).

This is a very good example of you making assumptions to for the sake of your argument.

I've brought up a valid question and discussion, in my opinion. I'm sorry you disagree.

...........

BTW, this is an example of a balanced discussion on a balanced forum. Take notes and maybe you guys will get more than 10 active members at Ascend Forum.

Sorry, thought it went without saying given what we already discussed. 2.5 times more development for a feature that's going to be superfluous for most people (notice Curtis, most people, not just me) doesn't seem to make much business sense, in my opinion.

What makes you think most people do not appreciate the work to do the matching of the cabinets and FR? Another assumption?


To match them? I have no idea. The only time frame I am aware of is that it takes me about 15 or 20 minutes to do an Audyssey EQ balance. But I mostly assumed that its primarily having to correct for the specifics of my room, and correct for completely different speakers (say HTM200SE vs. 340SE). I did notice, just by observation, that the same speakers (say, L/R 340SE) typically result in either the exact same correction or, at worst, a 1db difference.
You have no idea yet you don't think it is worth the time? You noticed a 1dB difference in level, not in FR. Do you think the 200SE and 340SE now sound the same because of what Audessey did?


Sure, and before I purchased them, I weighted the gains I would directly benefit from vs. those I'd be paying for that I don't need. It's this exact thought process that at least partially explains why my front L/R is still 340SE's. But I look at that from the positive perspective and see that as a commendation to Dave for making such a wonderful speaker (the 340SE).
I understand this, you make assumptions to justify your decision without hearing the Sierra. The 340SE is a wonderful speaker, we agree.


I've brought up a valid question and discussion, in my opinion. I'm sorry you disagree.
Actually, I agree, in your opinion, a valid question. Your question is based on assumptions, and then when things are explained, you disregard them, or you make another assumption that the person is exaggerating(even though you admittedly don't have an idea). So without you having direct experience, what good is trying to lay things out for you?

No one is saying you need a Sierra, and nobody said you needed a 340SE either.

Let me ask you, are you a detailed oriented person?


BTW, this is an example of a balanced discussion on a balanced forum. Take notes and maybe you guys will get more than 10 active members at Ascend Forum.
I would be posting the same thing on the Ascend forum. I don't see the difference....in fact you have already disregarded two other posters on the subject of matching cabinets.

So, IMO, your question has been answered, yet you bring up more assumptions for the sake of arguing.

BTW, this is an example of a balanced discussion on a balanced forum. Take notes and maybe you guys will get more than 10 active members at Ascend Forum.

That's a silly thing to say. Ascend only makes a handful of products (not a bad thing), none of which are all that complicated to use. Official forums are usually used for questions and complaints. Since most of their products have been around a while and they don't seem to have reliability issues, there's just not that much to talk about.

BTW, this is an example of a balanced discussion on a balanced forum. Take notes and maybe you guys will get more than 10 active members at Ascend Forum.

well, it's an example of something, but no, it's not an example of a balanced discussion...

it's more of an example of someone who (for some unknown reason) is on some type of crusade...

Regardless of the amount of time that goes into the manufacturing, testing, and matching of the Sierras (not to mention the thousands of man-hours that went into the design), they are a heck of a bang-for-the-buck speaker and are fairly priced. The pre-order discount is a no-brainer for both the customer and Ascend.

Jason

Sorry, thought it went without saying given what we already discussed. 2.5 times more development for a feature that's going to be superfluous for most people (notice Curtis, most people, not just me) doesn't seem to make much business sense, in my opinion.



Much of Dave's demanding design and quality control(like assembly in the US in a plant he is at instead of China) don't make business sense but that is what makes Ascend the quality product that it is. Making a file of very speaker's measurements before it goes out that door doesn't make business sense either but Ascend does it. Dave likes things to be right to him. That way he can have real pride in them. That is a lot of why in ~10 years there have been only two versions of the 170 and they are still in the comparisons for SQ of new speakers, at that price point, coming on the market. How many manufacturers would be on V.6 or so, or run through several models, over that same time?

Thought I'd post a couple pics of the cherry finish I came up with. Maybe those in the know or with access to a sample might let me know how it compares. I have some folks that'd like new stands to match theirs, but I don't/won't have a pair on hand to compare.

Jason

So, do you think the fact that they are matched to 1dB is a non-issue and not worth the time/expense to you?
:confused:

I think the whole argument is extremely silly. The sierras are sold in pair. When speakers are playing in stereo, it is extremely important to have both speakers sound the same. Precisely matching speakers is definitely something you want. What percentage of the people who buy Sierras will measure them and EQ them? 1-3%? So you'd sacrifice the performance of the other 95% of owners because some don't care about level matching speakers? :confused:

Anyhow, maybe if you purchase Sierras one day you can ask Dave to have a special unmatched pair and save 5-10$ :p but maybe he wouldn't do it, since if you decided to sell them later, someone else would end up with a pair of Sierras with subpar performance...

Thought I'd post a couple pics of the cherry finish I came up with. Maybe those in the know or with access to a sample might let me know how it compares. I have some folks that'd like new stands to match theirs, but I don't/won't have a pair on hand to compare.

Jason

sweet! :D

I know that the cabinets are also very carefully matched as there is a significant amount of variability in grain and color with the bamboo material. I have experienced this firsthand building stands for the Sierras.

Jason is correct -- we also hand match the finish depending on what is ordered. If the customer orders L/R/C - we match all three. There is a lot of variation between the grain and even the hue can vary. This is, after all, natural wood.

Az -- I would say at least 50% of our Sierra-1 customers are 2-channel purists, running the speakers off of amp/pre-amp combos. A small percentage of customers are using them with Audyssey equipped receivers or processors and even with these customers, many of them turn this feature off and run in pure-direct mode to avoid the D/A or at least A/D conversions.

We "performance" match the speakers as well and while this feature may not appeal to you because you intend to use Audyssey EQ, nevertheless -- many of our customers actually demand it (I have done this for CBM-170 SE and CMT-340 SE upon request). We do this because we can -- very few loudspeaker companies have the capability to offer this...

Dave, any thoughts on the finish? I'll likely use a lacquer for the finished product or offer a less expensive poly option.

Jason

And to reiterate, that was my exact thought too and what stopped me from even asking about it, up until the point that Dave mentioned it added 2.5 times the manufacturing time to the process (presumably including the costs associated with such a drastic increase in time). I'll just assume maybe he exaggerated a bit on that time and leave it at that, unless he wants to comment further. :) For me just one more thing I'd have to pay for that I don't need in practice.

Well understood, however (and I suspect you will argue against this) -- when I determine retail pricing for a product I examine the bill of materials costs and pricing is based on component costs only. Employee labor and my time (testing each speaker) are not factored into the cost of the product. Definitely NOT business 101 over here. If I was in this to be highly profitable, I would have our products fully assembled overseas. What loudspeaker company hand assembles a mass produced product like the $278/pr HTM-200 SE or $348/pr CBM-170 SE? All costs considered, I am not sure if there is any realized profit on either of these products these days (our costs have risen dramatically in the past 3 years)


Much of Dave's demanding design and quality control(like assembly in the US in a plant he is at instead of China) don't make business sense but that is what makes Ascend the quality product that it is. Making a file of very speaker's measurements before it goes out that door doesn't make business sense either but Ascend does it. Dave likes things to be right to him. That way he can have real pride in them. That is a lot of why in ~10 years there have been only two versions of the 170 and they are still in the comparisons for SQ of new speakers, at that price point, coming on the market. How many manufacturers would be on V.6 or so, or run through several models, over that same time?


This is so very true -- I am not sure anything about Ascend Acoustics makes sense from a business standpoint (with regard to being profitable) I have stated many times over the years that I am NOT a salesman, marketing expert or businessman -- I know how to produce a quality product and I take pride in this -- and I am not greedy. I suppose we have done something right -- we have entered our 10th year of business (thanks to all of you)

Dave, any thoughts on the finish? I'll likely use a lacquer for the finished product or offer a less expensive poly option.

Jason

It looks a little light. Can you send me a sample? I will take side by side pictures so that you can directly compare.

What makes you think most people do not appreciate the work to do the matching of the cabinets and FR? Another assumption?


You have no idea yet you don't think it is worth the time? You noticed a 1dB difference in level, not in FR. Do you think the 200SE and 340SE now sound the same because of what Audessey did?


I understand this, you make assumptions to justify your decision without hearing the Sierra. The 340SE is a wonderful speaker, we agree.


Actually, I agree, in your opinion, a valid question. Your question is based on assumptions, and then when things are explained, you disregard them, or you make another assumption that the person is exaggerating(even though you admittedly don't have an idea). So without you having direct experience, what good is trying to lay things out for you?

No one is saying you need a Sierra, and nobody said you needed a 340SE either.

Let me ask you, are you a detailed oriented person?


I would be posting the same thing on the Ascend forum. I don't see the difference....in fact you have already disregarded two other posters on the subject of matching cabinets.

So, IMO, your question has been answered, yet you bring up more assumptions for the sake of arguing.

When did the switch occur to talking about matching the cabinets? My understanding was the matching was with the FR, also per the quote I took from the Sierra-1 selling page. Honestly, I'd expect on a solid assembly line they'd be (physically) matched anyway, with acceptable QC/QA in place.

You're the master at putting words in my mouth. I never said an HTM200 and a 340SE would sound the same. But I do assume, with common sense safety margin, that EQ'ing adjustments are really useful for completely different speakers. Let me know if you disagree.

The only comments I use about the Sierra are either ones made by David on his forum or from trusted members. For example, I've assumed the Sierra has less sensitivity than a 340SE. I keep my assumptions safe, and don't extend beyond that.

............

I have definitely learned one thing from this: I had no idea that there were issues with cabinets not being matched, and FR deviating beyond 1db on all the other non-Sierra 1 Ascend speakers. I didn't notice either of these issues with my (non-Sierra 1) Ascends though, so maybe I got lucky.

Since most of their products have been around a while and they don't seem to have reliability issues, there's just not that much to talk about.

Also, when discussions are essentially restricted to only positive things about Ascends otherwise meeting the wrath of all the members there, you have the discussion even further restricted. Yes, I understand that naturally there's goign to be heavy bias at "Ascend" forum. Since my style is not blind loyalty, I never belonged there to begin with. I blame myself and left voluntarily.

I'll not comment further on that.

:confused:

I think the whole argument is extremely silly. The sierras are sold in pair. When speakers are playing in stereo, it is extremely important to have both speakers sound the same. Precisely matching speakers is definitely something you want. What percentage of the people who buy Sierras will measure them and EQ them? 1-3%? So you'd sacrifice the performance of the other 95% of owners because some don't care about level matching speakers? :confused:

Again, I'm "confused" too. I had no idea this was an issue with the other Ascend speakers. Maybe they should put a warning or a disclaimer there, since this is so "extremely important".

Only 1-3% of people buying 1K speaker pairs "measure" (balance) them? Please tell me you don't really believe that. I'm not sure one could even buy a receiver that doesn't have a basic white noise balance feature. I'm sorry... I simply don't believe people go out of there way to buy these, running in pairs or 5.1, and don't even take the time to at least match them by ear running a white noise test. My assumption is that at least half of the end users of Sierra-1's either 1. use an SPL meter to balance them or 2. Use an EQ feature.

Well understood, however (and I suspect you will argue against this) -- when I determine retail pricing for a product I examine the bill of materials costs and pricing is based on component costs only. Employee labor and my time (testing each speaker) are not factored into the cost of the product. Definitely NOT business 101 over here. If I was in this to be highly profitable, I would have our products fully assembled overseas.

So it seems there was more of a refinement approach with the Sierra-1.

I personally like your focus with the other speakers of the lions share of the money being on the sound and cutting costs on everything else. Take the bamboo cabinets for example. I assume bamboo costs more. I'm also assuming the bamboo material doesn't (necessarily) improve the sound. If it did, then why wouldn't improve sound for other speakers that use it as a higher end finish? Take the "Audioengine 5's" as an example (Audioengine offers a bamboo finish for $100 more, yet quotes exactly the same figures for the speaker performance). www.audioengineusa.com

Re: building overseas. You presented that with the assumtion that overseas building = reduced quality. I respectfully disagree with that. Case and point, I wouldn't be driving a honda assembled/built in Japan, if I believed that USA makes better products (such as cars) than all other countries. My dad went with Rockets instead of Ascends. Though I personally prefer the Ascend sound, if we're going to talk about build and finish.... Dad's blows my (Ascends) away. Would MLS concede Rockets are built with reduced quality because he has a factory overseas?

Dad's speaker arrangement is like mine. The mains are a good 15'+ apart from each other. The implication here is that if they didn't near perfectly, visually match each other, I wouldn't notice it, he wouldn't notice it, and neither would you, Dave.

So it seems there was more of a refinement approach with the Sierra-1.

I personally like your focus with the other speakers of the lions share of the money being on the sound and cutting costs on everything else. Take the bamboo cabinets for example. I assume bamboo costs more. I'm also assuming the bamboo material doesn't (necessarily) improve the sound. If it did, then why wouldn't improve sound for other speakers that use it as a higher end finish? Take the "Audioengine 5's" as an example (Audioengine offers a bamboo finish for $100 more, yet quotes exactly the same figures for the speaker performance). www.audioengineusa.com

Re: building overseas. You presented that with the assumtion that overseas building = reduced quality. I respectfully disagree with that. Case and point, I wouldn't be driving a honda assembled/built in Japan, if I believed that USA makes better products (such as cars) than all other countries. My dad went with Rockets instead of Ascends. Though I personally prefer the Ascend sound, if we're going to talk about build and finish.... Dad's blows my (Ascends) away. Would MLS concede Rockets are built with reduced quality because he has a factory overseas?

Dad's speaker arrangement is like mine. The mains are a good 15'+ apart from each other. The implication here is that if they didn't near perfectly, visually match each other, I wouldn't notice it, he wouldn't notice it, and neither would you, Dave.

Are you trying to pick a fight with ascend? I don't understand what your problem with them is and I'm starting to think you don't either.


Just fyi, honda assembles:
Honda Civic
Honda Civic (GX NGV)
Honda CR-V (from September 2006)
Honda Element
Honda Ridgeline
Honda Pilot
Acura MDX
Honda Civic
Acura CSX
Honda Odyssey
Honda Pilot
Honda J engine
Honda Accord
Acura TL
Acura RDX
motorcycles (Honda Gold Wing)

In america and canada

Are you trying to pick a fight with ascend? I don't understand what your problem with them is and I'm starting to think you don't either.

No. Thanks for asking though, and please stay on topic.

Just FYI, my honda is a 2007 Honda Fit, and it was fully built and assembled in Japan. Not only does the door jam say that, but the VIN starts with a "J". Also please note I never claimed that all Hondas are made in Japan. If you want a pic of my door jam, just let me know ok?

No. Thanks for asking though, and please stay on topic.

Just FYI, my honda is a 2007 Honda Fit, and it was fully built and assembled in Japan. Not only does the door jam say that, but the VIN starts with a "J". Also please note I never claimed that all Hondas are made in Japan.

I can't address your points because you were talking to dave. I was stating something I noticed, that you seem to have a grudge against ascend for some reason.

If I had to guess why he used bamboo, I'd say it was because it looks cool and it's a renewable resource. Despite what we'd all like to think, it's not just about the sound. Looks become increasingly important as price increases, especially if there's a significant other that has to approve the purchase. I think a lot of people would have been turned off if the sierra-1 looked like a slightly taller cbm-170.

I can't address your points because you were talking to dave. I was stating something I noticed, that you seem to have a grudge against ascend for some reason.

I really don't (have a grudge). I'm a happy Ascend owner, and I spent a good 1HR just last night enjoying 2-channel 340SE music. To be honest, my perception is you are responding aggressively to me too, and Curtis is definitely being aggressive with me. So instead of accusing each other of starting or maintaining fights, lets just have a reasonable discussion, ok?

To me, this is a discussion that will result in helpful info to me and others. If you perceive it as an argument, I'm sorry about that.

If I had to guess why he used bamboo, I'd say it was because it looks cool and it's a renewable resource. Despite what we'd all like to think, it's not just about the sound. Looks become increasingly important as price increases, especially if there's a significant other that has to approve the purchase. I think a lot of people would have been turned off if the sierra-1 looked like a slightly taller cbm-170.

And I'm totally cool with that if he wanted a product more focused on those things. If I bought Sierra-1, I'd have to get the black to match my room decor, and for me, at 8-foot away from them in my sort of dark living room, I probably couldn't tell (black painted) wood from bamboo if my life depended on it.

...............

Just curious (and to hopefully lighten things a bit), would I likely prefer just Sierra-1's in 2 channel music, or would I more likely like them crossed with my VTF-3, Mk. 3? I certainly cross with my 340SEs cause I don't think they have much deep bass, but boy do they sound gorgeous on mid-bass and higher!

I can't address your points because you were talking to dave. I was stating something I noticed, that you seem to have a grudge against ascend for some reason.

If I had to guess why he used bamboo, I'd say it was because it looks cool and it's a renewable resource. Despite what we'd all like to think, it's not just about the sound. Looks become increasingly important as price increases, especially if there's a significant other that has to approve the purchase. I think a lot of people would have been turned off if the sierra-1 looked like a slightly taller cbm-170.

There are some "technical" reasons Dave used bamboo for the cabinets which are mentioned in his initial release posts at the Ascend forum:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=22500&postcount=1

There are some "technical" reasons Dave used bamboo for the cabinets which are mentioned in his initial release posts at the Ascend forum:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=22500&postcount=1

There was a lot of mention of "sound" improvements too. In short, greatly reduced resonance which can (does?) improve improving accuracy, transparency and imaging. It just makes me wonder why the folks at audioengine apparently didn't realize these same benefits. They seem to present it only as a better looking finish.

As to why I mention Audioengine, I was just familiar with them since I was considering a pair of the 5's for my PC and was familiar with them for that reason. For my pc, I need that internal amp, and these are supposedly pretty darn good speakers for the price. For my HT, I'm a perma-Ascend owner.

Looking at the Audioengine site it is not clear to me if the bamboo finish is the entire cabinet or just a bamboo veneer over the MDF. It mentions the A5 is "wrapped" in bamboo which could indicate a veneer (?)

The web site strongly implies that the bamboo is a veneer since the general specifications indicate MDF.

Bamboo is incredibly inert and difficult to work with. I think this quality has a lot to do with the incredible Sierra bass response.

The web site strongly implies that the bamboo is a veneer since the general specifications indicate MDF.

Bamboo is incredibly inert and difficult to work with. I think this quality has a lot to do with the incredible Sierra bass response.

Oh ok, I missed that. That clears that up. Thanks Chaos/MZ.

Actually, I was wrong. From the web site:

A5N Eco-friendly features:

* Made from renewable and sustainable solid bamboo - no veneers
* No stains or paint used - naturally "carbonized" finish sealed with hand-rubbed water-based satin polyurethane

Damn, I hate it when I'm wrong like this.

The site does not say there any difference in sq between the speakers. I sent an email asking if there is any.

The site does not say there any difference in sq between the speakers. I sent an email asking if there is any.

And so I'm clear on my assumptions upfront, I believe and assume full honesty on account of both David as well as Audioengine. But I am curious why one company would realize improvements in audible performance, and the other company wouldn't when going with the bamboo.

.........

Re: the internal amp, wonder if that could be another idea for a new Ascend product down the line. Besides the audioengine, I believe Axiom just came out with a nice "PC ready" speaker that's getting good reviews. Maybe Ascend should work on one of these! Maybe the "Sierra 0.5" could have an amp'ed version?

And so I'm clear on my assumptions upfront, I believe and assume full honesty on account of both David as well as Audioengine. But I am curious why one company would realize improvements in audible performance, and the other company wouldn't when going with the bamboo.



I had a conversation with a sub manufacturer about a bamboo veneer vs. an all bamboo sub. One factor, of course, is cost. Another, however, was sound quality. He said that it would take a lot of work to get the sq right for an all bamboo sub, and my understanding was that he didn't have the time to do it right. This person I talked to is known for his exacting standards.

Dave has the same standards--it took many years for him to develop the Sierra. Even though I know nothing about engineering a speaker, there seems to be a consensus that the less resonant the enclosure the better; moving from MDF to bamboo might improve SQ right away. I also think that it would take work on driver design and crossovers to maximize the advantages of stiffer material.

It wouldn't surprise me if Audioengine only changed cabinets.

I have sent an email to Audioengine about the differences in material.

Let's also remember that the Sierra has different components than the 340SE.

I personally like your focus with the other speakers of the lions share of the money being on the sound and cutting costs on everything else. Take the bamboo cabinets for example. I assume bamboo costs more. I'm also assuming the bamboo material doesn't (necessarily) improve the sound. If it did, then why wouldn't improve sound for other speakers that use it as a higher end finish? Take the "Audioengine 5's" as an example (Audioengine offers a bamboo finish for $100 more, yet quotes exactly the same figures for the speaker performance).

Some of your assumptions here are correct and some are wrong.. Bamboo does cost more (about 5-10x more) However, given the same thickness MDF (or even 1.5 times thicker), vertically laminated bamboo has proven to be far less resonant and much stiffer (less “flex” so that less energy is lost) Bamboo has a tensile strength that is similar to steel and it’s weight to strength ratio surpasses graphite. We can offer a loudspeaker cabinet that is less resonant, stiffer and lighter compared to MDF. We use bamboo because of the performance benefits it offers, it would be a lot easier (and less expensive) for us to simply wrap an MDF cabinet in veneer (including bamboo veneer).

I can not speak for Audioengine with regard to their version of a bamboo cabinet or why they don't advertise it with regard to the many advantages it offers including dramatically reduced resonance (yes, Az -- it matters). Is there actually a “spec” for resonance or stiffness? Comparing an MDF made Sierra-1 against the bamboo counterpart, the published technical specifications would actually be the same but one can easily hear the difference (I have done this test dozens of times). You know that published technical specifications only provide a baseline with regard to how something sounds.

They (Audioengine) seem to be taking more of the "green" approach in their marketing and perhaps this is what appeals to their customer base. Or perhaps to keep their costs down they used 3/8" thick bamboo (or even thinner) -- or lesser expensive but not as effective horizontal grain variants. They don’t list any technical details regarding the cabinets and perhaps they found an inexpensive way to jump on the “Go-Green” bandwagon. I honestly don’t know. There are several approaches a manufacturer could take. One would be to offer a bamboo enclosure with a thickness that is less than the MDF version, use the minimum thickness necessary to match the properties of the MDF version. This would result in an enclosure that would only be slightly more expensive but weigh less (this can often save a manufacturer tens of thousands in freight costs).

OK – found this, here is a quote from Dave Evans "The strength and hardness of bamboo gives it excellent acoustical properties, making it an ideal material for speakers." says Audioengine co-founder David Evans.

Does that calm your doubts? If not and you are still curious, why not order a pair of Sierra-1 and try the dreaded "knuckle test" yourself between the Sierra-1 and ANY other pair of bookshelf speakers?

Re: building overseas. You presented that with the assumtion that overseas building = reduced quality. I respectfully disagree with that. Case and point, I wouldn't be driving a honda assembled/built in Japan, if I believed that USA makes better products (such as cars) than all other countries. My dad went with Rockets instead of Ascends. Though I personally prefer the Ascend sound, if we're going to talk about build and finish.... Dad's blows my (Ascends) away. Would MLS concede Rockets are built with reduced quality because he has a factory overseas?

Let’s not bring MLS into this -- I believe I know him and the workings of his business model a bit better than you do. I was not referring to fit/finish quality, Az. We assemble and test our products here in the US for performance and QC reasons. The problems with the lack of QC and using inferior parts to save $$$ in China are well documented (do you not keep up with current events?) I have seen businesses go under because of this – and why are you comparing manufacturing cars in Japan to loudspeakers assembled in China? Apples to oranges, and BTW, I own two Japanese cars I love, both of which were assembled here in the US.

In addition, I would hope that the build and finish quality of your dad's Rockets "blows away" that of your 340 SE --- you still prefer the sound of your 340 SE ;) This was the design goal of the 340 SE (and you know this) -- we put the majority of the costs of this product into the component quality, not the finish and it is a product designed for those who want high performance at an incredible price where looks are secondary (if you haven’t figured it out yet, that's you, Az :p ) The fit/finish of the 340 SE has nothing to do with where the cabinets are built. I could certainly offer the 340 SE with the fit/finish quality of your dad's Rockets, but then the retail price would be much higher and they would not offer the same dollar to performance ratio – and besides, that is not our philosophy and it is precisely why you are a *happy* :confused: customer, right?


Dad's speaker arrangement is like mine. The mains are a good 15'+ apart from each other. The implication here is that if they didn't near perfectly, visually match each other, I wouldn't notice it, he wouldn't notice it, and neither would you, Dave.

I wish it were as simple as this – you are comparing a veneered and stained speaker to natural wood. Perhaps you are correct though, some of our customers might not care if the speakers are not aesthetically matched and others might not even care if they are not performance matched. Pairs that are not aesthetically matched are sold as B-Stock at reduced pricing but with regard to performance matching, if a customer does not want precision matched speakers with the documentation to back it up, they should buy from a different manufacturer. Regardless of your opinion on the subject, it matters and Ascend will never compromise performance. We have been in business for ten years now and our production methods and philosophies have not and will not change (and have now been copied by many of our competitors)

BTW, even the most prestigious driver manufacturers allow for at least a 3dB tolerance window from one driver to the next (ScanSpeak, Vifa, SEAS) A 2dB difference is audible (subtle, but indeed audible) I have measured 3-6 dB differences in frequency response between speakers sold as pairs – even in very *high end* brands. The only possible way to keep our finished product performance tolerances tighter than the individual component tolerances is to assemble and test here at our headquarters, with me personally overseeing every step… This is how I choose to run my business and it is based on first hand experience witnessing performance, quality and reliability suffer dramatically when assembly and testing shifts to off-site locations to reduce costs, be that China, Mexico, South America and even other US locations.

I prefer to keep products bearing my company’s name under my personal scrutiny…

It wouldn't surprise me if Audioengine only changed cabinets.

I have sent an email to Audioengine about the differences in material.

Let's also remember that the Sierra has different components than the 340SE.

Very valid points... Bamboo cabinet aside, every component of the Sierra-1 is a step up compared to the 340 SE, from the metalized polypropylene capacitors used in the crossover (compared to polyester film), to the 5 1/4" long throw cast aluminum frame woofer with copper shorting rings and an advanced cooling system, to the unique SEAS built and optimized tweeter with controlled directivity and exaggerated wide-roll surround for improved damping.

Make no mistake, the 340 SE is an exceptional loudspeaker, one that I feel sits squarely at the peak of the diminishing returns bell curve. Our Sierra-1 is for those customers who want the next step-up in performance and it delivers this in spades...

Some of your assumptions here are correct and some are wrong.. Bamboo does cost more (about 5-10x more) However, given the same thickness MDF (or even 1.5 times thicker), vertically laminated bamboo has proven to be far less resonant and much stiffer (less “flex” so that less energy is lost) Bamboo has a tensile strength that is similar to steel and it’s weight to strength ratio surpasses graphite. We can offer a loudspeaker cabinet that is less resonant, stiffer and lighter compared to MDF. We use bamboo because of the performance benefits it offers, it would be a lot easier (and less expensive) for us to simply wrap an MDF cabinet in veneer (including bamboo veneer).

I can not speak for Audioengine with regard to their version of a bamboo cabinet or why they don't advertise it with regard to the many advantages it offers including dramatically reduced resonance (yes, Az -- it matters). Is there actually a “spec” for resonance or stiffness? Comparing an MDF made Sierra-1 against the bamboo counterpart, the published technical specifications would actually be the same but one can easily hear the difference (I have done this test dozens of times). You know that published technical specifications only provide a baseline with regard to how something sounds.

They (Audioengine) seem to be taking more of the "green" approach in their marketing and perhaps this is what appeals to their customer base. Or perhaps to keep their costs down they used 3/8" thick bamboo (or even thinner) -- or lesser expensive but not as effective horizontal grain variants. They don’t list any technical details regarding the cabinets and perhaps they found an inexpensive way to jump on the “Go-Green” bandwagon. I honestly don’t know. There are several approaches a manufacturer could take. One would be to offer a bamboo enclosure with a thickness that is less than the MDF version, use the minimum thickness necessary to match the properties of the MDF version. This would result in an enclosure that would only be slightly more expensive but weigh less (this can often save a manufacturer tens of thousands in freight costs).

OK – found this, here is a quote from Dave Evans "The strength and hardness of bamboo gives it excellent acoustical properties, making it an ideal material for speakers." says Audioengine co-founder David Evans.

Does that calm your doubts? If not and you are still curious, why not order a pair of Sierra-1 and try the dreaded "knuckle test" yourself between the Sierra-1 and ANY other pair of bookshelf speakers?

I just wanted to say for the record, you didn't identify any assumption that I made that was outright wrong, though you claim i did. With regard to bamboo improving audio quality, I presented that in the form of a question. I believe all Ive implied so far is that (in my opinion) Audioengine hasn't overtly claimed that the bamboo version has improved sound over their base model. That quote by Dave Evans, only definitely implies that bamboo doesn't degrade the sound quality. Presumably the base finish also has excellent "acoustical properties".

Theirs wasn't cheap either. I think in terms of percent, not cost. A jump of an extra $100 on a $350 speaker is 29% more. Audioengine 5 is quite a bit smaller than the Sierra-1.

Dave, I already said I want a pair of Sierra-1's (on your forum)! I'm just holding off on budgeting it because I think I'd only notice the improvement when I do one of my 2-channel listening sessions. I'm limited at the center channel slot with a HTM-200SE (because of space restrictions), so for 5.1+ content, the pair wouldn't help me really. I'm about 75% Home theater, 25% music.




Let’s not bring MLS into this -- I believe I know him and the workings of his business model a bit better than you do. I was not referring to fit/finish quality, Az. We assemble and test our products here in the US for performance and QC reasons. The problems with the lack of QC and using inferior parts to save $$$ in China are well documented (do you not keep up with current events?) I have seen businesses go under because of this – and why are you comparing manufacturing cars in Japan to loudspeakers assembled in China? Apples to oranges, and BTW, I own two Japanese cars I love, both of which were assembled here in the US.

In addition, I would hope that the build and finish quality of your dad's Rockets "blows away" that of your 340 SE --- you still prefer the sound of your 340 SE ;) This was the design goal of the 340 SE (and you know this) -- we put the majority of the costs of this product into the component quality, not the finish and it is a product designed for those who want high performance at an incredible price where looks are secondary (if you haven’t figured it out yet, that's you, Az :p ) The fit/finish of the 340 SE has nothing to do with where the cabinets are built. I could certainly offer the 340 SE with the fit/finish quality of your dad's Rockets, but then the retail price would be much higher and they would not offer the same dollar to performance ratio – and besides, that is not our philosophy and it is precisely why you are a *happy* :confused: customer, right?

Dave F, just be careful about what you say and MLS is safely kept out. Implying foreign build = lower QC/QA is a bold claim that I think you should be prepared to back up, because making such a claim stands to offend a lot of people. Aren't you bringing MLS into it when you specifically mention China? Isn't that where his factory is (sorry if I'm wrong on that)?

Hey, I already said I prefer the sound (over build quality focus)! You asked me something I already made clear, Dave! More specifically, Dad just needed di-poles for his weird shaped room, so that's the main reason he went Rocket. In short, the 340SE approach/design was exactly what I was looking for, and that's why I own it. I'll probably continue to hesitate on products that focus less on audio quality, and more on fit and finish unless my household income increases dramatically.

I wish it were as simple as this – you are comparing a veneered and stained speaker to natural wood. Perhaps you are correct though, some of our customers might not care if the speakers are not aesthetically matched and others might not even care if they are not performance matched. Pairs that are not aesthetically matched are sold as B-Stock at reduced pricing but with regard to performance matching, if a customer does not want precision matched speakers with the documentation to back it up, they should buy from a different manufacturer.

OR.... (option b, Dave); Agree to also pay for those features ones doesn't necessarily need to realize the improvements of the ones they do. I know and realize Sierra-1's are overall better speakers than 340SEs. Curtis was right about the fact that we all own products that include features that we don't use.

My Marantz SR7002 has tons of features I don't use, but I wanted Marantz quality, so I take the good with the... not needed.

BTW, even the most prestigious driver manufacturers allow for at least a 3dB tolerance window from one driver to the next (ScanSpeak, Vifa, SEAS) A 2dB difference is audible (subtle, but indeed audible) I have measured 3-6 dB differences in frequency response between speakers sold as pairs – even in very *high end* brands. The only possible way to keep our finished product performance tolerances tighter than the individual component tolerances is to assemble and test here at our headquarters, with me personally overseeing every step… This is how I choose to run my business and it is based on first hand experience witnessing performance, quality and reliability suffer dramatically when assembly and testing shifts to off-site locations to reduce costs, be that China, Mexico, South America and even other US locations.

That's all cool. As already stated, I have equipment that can can correct for 3db differences, so it wouldn't be a problem for me one way or the other. The most entry level of receivers can do generalized decibel corrections (test tones), and some, like mine, can do EQ level corrections.

I prefer to keep products bearing my company’s name under my personal scrutiny…

Again, all great. I just know that scrutiny = cost to everyone. I hope you continue to be receptive with hearing what your customers are interested in paying for, and what they'd rather save money on. If you have a lot that like to pay for the cost of extreme balancing, then keep doing that and I'll just pay for it when I buy a pair.

Very valid points... Bamboo cabinet aside, every component of the Sierra-1 is a step up compared to the 340 SE

I'm sure that's true. I would have paid another $400/pair to get another driver though, and the same footprint as the 340SE. Previously current "high end" ascend owners were already accommodating the size of the 340s so we were all prepared to do an exact size swap.

I just wanted to say for the record, you didn't identify any assumption that I made that was outright wrong, though you claim i did. With regard to bamboo improving audio quality, I presented that in the form of a question.

So it seems there was more of a refinement approach with the Sierra-1.

I personally like your focus with the other speakers of the lions share of the money being on the sound and cutting costs on everything else. Take the bamboo cabinets for example. I assume bamboo costs more. I'm also assuming the bamboo material doesn't (necessarily) improve the sound. If it did, then why wouldn't improve sound for other speakers that use it as a higher end finish?

:confused: Nobody needs to help him to dig his own hole! ;) And btw, if it wasn't 100% clear, it's not the bamboo 'finish' which is acoustically superior to MDF, it's the bamboo material that the cabinet is made from! It doesn't use cheap MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard), it is made of bamboo...

I'm sure that's true. I would have paid another $400/pair to get another driver though, and the same footprint as the 340SE. Previously current "high end" ascend owners were already accommodating the size of the 340s so we were all prepared to do an exact size swap.

Another driver doesn't necessarily mean better sound. Check out these threads about the Sierras... The crossover page is relevant to this.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2593&highlight=sierra
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2598&highlight=crossover
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2600&highlight=sierra
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2597&highlight=sierra

If you want more drivers... These might be for you! (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/298532-REG/JBL_E80CH_E80_3_Way_Floorstanding_Speaker.html) :p

I'm sure that's true. I would have paid another $400/pair to get another driver though, and the same footprint as the 340SE. Previously current "high end" ascend owners were already accommodating the size of the 340s so we were all prepared to do an exact size swap.

And btw, the Sierras have the exact same footprint as the 340SE, so you can do the exact size swap.


Dave F, just be careful about what you say and MLS is safely kept out. Implying foreign build = lower QC/QA is a bold claim that I think you should be prepared to back up, because making such a claim stands to offend a lot of people. Aren't you bringing MLS into it when you specifically mention China? Isn't that where his factory is (sorry if I'm wrong on that)?
Not sure what isn't clear, Dave explained it very clearly... Reread his post...

OR.... (option b, Dave); Agree to also pay for those features ones doesn't necessarily need to realize the improvements of the ones they do. I know and realize Sierra-1's are overall better speakers than 340SEs. Curtis was right about the fact that we all own products that include features that we don't use.
Hilarious, Dave said he will not compromise the quality of his products and you're arguing that you want him to sell products that do not meet his criteria...!!! Precisely matched speakers is much better than no matching or poorly matched speakers... I don't see what the problem is, do you also want a woofer that isn't working as it should or a cabinet which isn't exactly the right size or built crooked?

Again, all great. I just know that scrutiny = cost to everyone.
I think you just don't get it. Let's put it this way. If you want a very high quality car, you buy something like a BMW, Mercedez, Audi, etc. If you want a crap quality car, then you buy a Chevrolet Aveo, Cavalier, Tada, Chrysler Sebring, etc... Would you ask BMW to skimp on their assembly/parts quality/QA etc just to sell you a car you think would be right for you? Would you ask them, bah, just throw it all together as fast as you can without worrying about everything being as good as you want, it just drives up the cost, just get some interns to build it for me, real employees cost more money and that drives up the cost!

:confused: Nobody needs to help him to dig his own hole! ;) And btw, if it wasn't 100% clear, it's not the bamboo 'finish' which is acoustically superior to MDF, it's the bamboo material that the cabinet is made from! It doesn't use cheap MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard), it is made of bamboo...

I misspoke when I said finish. It appears the audioengines are solid bamboo, and, until discovered otherwise, have no performance difference from the non-bamboo ones. Ascend found a big performance difference. I find that odd.

And btw, the Sierras have the exact same footprint as the 340SE, so you can do the exact size swap.

Actually, the Sierra's are shorter. "Exact same footprint" to me means identical width, height, and depth. Certainly any solid objects with different volumes are not "the exact same footprint".

Not sure what isn't clear, Dave explained it very clearly... Reread his post...

And I explained my rebuttal very clearly. He assumes "made in the USA" is a positive, and I don't. He assumes "made in China" is a negative, and I don't. I think it depends.

Hilarious, Dave said he will not compromise the quality of his products and you're arguing that you want him to sell products that do not meet his criteria...!!! Precisely matched speakers is much better than no matching or poorly matched speakers... I don't see what the problem is, do you also want a woofer that isn't working as it should or a cabinet which isn't exactly the right size or built crooked?

What is it with this correlation of Ascend customers with those putting words in my mouth? What idiot would want a speaker with a woofer not working, or "crooked" speakers. I'm questioning right this very moment why I'm even bothering responding to you at all, to be completely honest.

Dave is entitled to make speakers according to whatever criteria he wants. I'm just as entitled to not buy it when one of those standards adds a few hundred dollars to the cost while insuring the inclusion of superficial features.

I think you just don't get it. Let's put it this way. If you want a very high quality car, you buy something like a BMW, Mercedez, Audi, etc. If you want a crap quality car, then you buy a Chevrolet Aveo, Cavalier, Tada, Chrysler Sebring, etc... Would you ask BMW to skimp on their assembly/parts quality/QA etc just to sell you a car you think would be right for you? Would you ask them, bah, just throw it all together as fast as you can without worrying about everything being as good as you want, it just drives up the cost, just get some interns to build it for me, real employees cost more money and that drives up the cost!

I love the car analogy. Up until Sierra-1, you had Dave making Hondas. Solid cars, no flash and flair, wonderful quality and dependability, etc. With Sierra-1, we now have an Acura.

I never was in the market for a "luxury" speaker. That had to be one of the key reasons why I went Ascend. I was looking for maximum bang for minimum buck and minimum flair. Any of those brands you named (BMW, Mercedez, Audi), definitely have flair too and ole, by the way, .... you're going to pay for it.

Actually, the Sierra's are shorter. "Exact same footprint" to me means identical width, height, and length. Certainly any solid objects with different volumes are not "the exact same footprint".


well, "to you" it might, but by definition, "footprint" is how much area of a surface is covered by an object... "volume" plays no part in the value of footprint... you could have a million cubic meter object and a one cubic meter object.... if the base of each is one square meter, they have the same footprint... "technically speaking", they don't even have to have the same shape at the base, but as used in this case, that's not relevant...

back to your regularly scheduled crusade... i'll give you one thing, you've got stamina... :p

Jesus...are we arguing about footprint?

You need another hobby...one that doesn't give you (and everybody else) such a frickin' headache.

Jason

Edit - I probably shouldn't have responded like this, because it's probably exactly what you want. But whatever, I've got to say something here.




Actually, the Sierra's are shorter. "Exact same footprint" to me means identical width, height, and depth. Certainly any solid objects with different volumes are not "the exact same footprint".

I see you like to create your own definitions of terms. Reference: http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=footprint . It does not include anything about volume. The footprint of both a CMT-340 L/R and a Sierra-1 L/R are the same: 7.5" x 10.5". That said, I've already forgotten why the f this is being discussed as an issue!

I'm trying hard to not be confrontational, but your conversations always read like you are on a passive-aggressive warpath. Just FYI from someone that spends months on end lurking.

And I explained my rebuttal very clearly. He assumes "made in the USA" is a positive, and I don't. He assumes "made in China" is a negative, and I don't. I think it depends.

You're not reading Dave's posts clearly enough. Of course you can always find some minute possible exception to every statement, but Dave was clear that, "....it is based on first hand experience witnessing performance, quality and reliability suffer dramatically when assembly and testing shifts to off-site locations to reduce costs, be that China, Mexico, South America and even other US locations. I prefer to keep products bearing my company’s name under my personal scrutiny…" (Emphasis mine)

And that's the key - it's not about China per se, it's about the level of quality control and supervision of a product's assemblage and testing when it is off-site. As in, quality tends to degrade the as a product is removed further and further from those employees that care the most about the process.

Again, all great. I just know that scrutiny = cost to everyone. I hope you continue to be receptive with hearing what your customers are interested in paying for, and what they'd rather save money on. If you have a lot that like to pay for the cost of extreme balancing, then keep doing that and I'll just pay for it when I buy a pair.

Azanon- Okay, forget this...I'm done with not-confrontational. This makes me mad. DO NOT PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. You are generalizing and applying YOUR opinions to other Ascend customers. Cease doing this immediately. If someone agrees with what you are saying, they can post as much, email Dave, call Ascend, etc. Don't just assume because something makes sense to you it makes any iota of sense to any other person.

Such scrutiny is what makes Ascend speakers good. Any monkey can go to PE.com and slap drivers in a box and think it's Carnagie Hall reincarnated in their living room. Great for them. I for one, prefer to pay to have a master craftsmen elegantly design something than 99% of people don't have the intelligence, patience, or love of the craft to do.

I invite you to go buy something cheaper that's built with less scrutiny. If that would make you happy, Godspeed child.

You know, Az -- I am starting to believe the many emails I have received about your posts... You are indeed arguing just for the sake of arguing -- you bring nothing to this thread.

I misspoke when I said finish. It appears the audioengines are solid bamboo, and, until discovered otherwise, have no performance difference from the non-bamboo ones. Ascend found a big performance difference. I find that odd.

According to you, because Audioengine is not marketing their "bamboo" speakers as having a performance advantage, that they do not. As I mentioned previously, you know NOTHING about the material used, the thickness of the material, how the sheets are laminated etc. It is possible they might not have a performance advantage -- or it is possible they do. Why does this even concern you? If you doubt the superiority of bamboo laminate for loudspeaker construction -- why don't you simply go and purchase a sheet of 3/4" MDF and a sheet of 3/4" bamboo laminate and test yourself. You have zero experience in this and you are simply reiterating your opinion over and over again without any basis in fact. I already provided you a direct quote from Dave Evans, co-founder of Audioengine where he states "The strength and hardness of bamboo gives it excellent acoustical properties, making it an ideal material for speakers."

Actually, the Sierra's are shorter. "Exact same footprint" to me means identical width, height, and depth. Certainly any solid objects with different volumes are not "the exact same footprint".

And once again you argue your point -- regardless of "what it means to you" your definition of footprint is wrong. Height is not a factor with regard to footprint.

And I explained my rebuttal very clearly. He assumes "made in the USA" is a positive, and I don't. He assumes "made in China" is a negative, and I don't. I think it depends. "

The only assumptions I have presented, and in fact, this is not an assumption, is that I can guarantee better quality control with the products that we assemble here, which are under my scrutiny, as compared to having my products built anywhere else. That, my friend, is fact...


Dave is entitled to make speakers according to whatever criteria he wants. I'm just as entitled to not buy it when one of those standards adds a few hundred dollars to the cost while insuring the inclusion of superficial features.

That, sir, has no basis in fact, and is entirely YOUR opinion -- I already told you that the retail cost of our products is entirely determined by our component bill of material costs. I do not factor employee labor or even my labor/time into the calculation. And while you consider tighter tolerances and higher quality standards superficial – you are the only Ascend customer in ten years of business with tens of thousands of speakers sold, that consider this to be superficial.

It is obvious my company's philosophies and ideals do not match with your own, so instead of arguing and nitpicking every detail that you do not agree with, why not find a different brand that is perhaps better suited to what you are looking for? I am certainly NOT going to change what we do here because of your bickering, and AZ, that is precisely what you are doing -- bickering.

Or – tell you what I will do for you --- I will have a pair of Sierra-1 assembled especially for you. We will not hand match or performance match the speakers and we will not include frequency response measurements. This pair will be sold as B-stock with appropriate B-stock pricing. This pair will receive the exact same type of quality controls that would be implemented if they were assembled overseas. My offer to you remains open for 48 hours…

I misspoke when I said finish.
Indeed, that seems to happen quite a lot...

It appears the audioengines are solid bamboo, and, until discovered otherwise, have no performance difference from the non-bamboo ones. Ascend found a big performance difference. I find that odd.
Are you talking about these? http://www.audioengineusa.com/a5_buynow.php#A5N%20Bookshelf%20Speakers Again, you assume much. :rolleyes:

Here's what a tech answered when someone asked about the cabinets (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/audioengine-a5-bamboo-black-395711/index2.html):
Thank you for your interest. To the trained ear there will be some differences in sound between the bamboo speakers and the MDF speakers. In tuning these speakers, they were designed to sound as closely as possible to the black and white speakers but the bamboo speakers do have natural acoustic advantages being that they are made from solid bamboo. Hope this helps. Please let us know how else we can assist you!

So once again, you're just making assumptions which are wrong. Also, you seem to doubt that bamboo as material makes any difference, and you question Ascend's claims that it does. Did you see the measurements in the pages I've linked? Did you ever knock on a pair of Sierras? And I mean knock as in tap lightly with your knuckles? Try it, I'm sure you'll find a big difference between that and your average MDF speakers.

Have you ever heard of: "assuming makes an ass (out of) u (and) me."? If you assumed less, you'd make less of an ass of yourself and others. Sure, you can question all you want, but when you say stuff like: "until discovered otherwise, (bamboo as cabinet material) have no performance difference", then you're relegating it to snake oil category which is absolutely ludicrous.

Just read a little about speaker design, you'll see that an inert and non-resonant cabinets are a very important aspect of speaker design. Why subs & speakers are braced to hell. MDF is used because it's cheap, but don't doubt that there are better materials out there. Read about bamboo laminate, plyboo, and the such...


Actually, the Sierra's are shorter. "Exact same footprint" to me means identical width, height, and depth. Certainly any solid objects with different volumes are not "the exact same footprint".
Wow, are you trolling? Sure looks like are... Foot... PRINT.

And I explained my rebuttal very clearly. He assumes "made in the USA" is a positive, and I don't. He assumes "made in China" is a negative, and I don't. I think it depends.
No you assumed that he assumed.

What is it with this correlation of Ascend customers with those putting words in my mouth?
I didn't put words in your mouth, I asked you a question. "do you also want a woofer that isn't working as it should or a cabinet which isn't exactly the right size or built crooked?" Get the difference? Question vs putting words in someone's mouth? Did you misspoke again?

What idiot would want a speaker with a woofer not working, or "crooked" speakers.
What idiot wants unmatched speakers? :rolleyes: Everyone wants matched drivers and speakers...

Dave is entitled to make speakers according to whatever criteria he wants. I'm just as entitled to not buy it when one of those standards adds a few hundred dollars to the cost while insuring the inclusion of superficial features.
Bwahaha! Speaker/driver matching is a superficial feature?! LOL

What about say Grado, http://www.gradolabs.com/frameset_main.htm They also match their drivers, are you going to complain to them that you don't want to pay for the matching 'feature' because you have a balance on your headphone amp? Complaining about things like that is utterly idiotic... Yeah so their higher end headphones are matched to 0.05dB, you'd call them and ask for an unmatched pair? hahaha!

Also, where the hell did you get the "few hundred dollars" :confused: Another of your assumptions?

I love the car analogy. Up until Sierra-1, you had Dave making Hondas. Solid cars, no flash and flair, wonderful quality and dependability, etc. With Sierra-1, we now have an Acura.

I never was in the market for a "luxury" speaker. That had to be one of the key reasons why I went Ascend. I was looking for maximum bang for minimum buck and minimum flair. Any of those brands you named (BMW, Mercedez, Audi), definitely have flair too and ole, by the way, .... you're going to pay for it.

You missed the point. It doesn't matter what car the Sierra would equate to. What matters is that you don't ask manufacturers to skimp on the quality of a product because you don't think that it is important. If you think that one product has too much fluff, and in this case, 99.9% of people wouldn't agree with you that 1dB matching is fluff, don't buy them and buy something you feel is a better value.

Buy Bose, Yamaha, Sony, etc. speakers if you don't want to pay for driver matching. They're not matched like the Sierras are, and they're much cheaper, go buy them! That was the point, if you don't like the product, don't buy it! If it bothers you that Ascend does 1dB matching, then buy a product which doesn't!

In the end, what you fail to realize, is that just like speakers, what matters is the end product and performance. Stop worrying about what costs what and what is important and not important. That's Dave's job, the speaker designer. It is not your role, the uneducated consumer, to make design decisions... Dave chose bamboo, even if it costs significantly more than MDF, now you whine and bitch that it's unproven that it helps performance, and you whine about speaker and driver matching... Dude, seriously, seems like the Sierras are simply not for you, just look elsewhere and forget about them! :)

[EDIT] bah, beaten by 2 posts...

Or – tell you what I will do for you --- I will have a pair of Sierra-1 assembled especially for you. We will not hand match or performance match the speakers and we will not include frequency response measurements. This pair will be sold as B-stock with appropriate B-stock pricing. This pair will receive the exact same type of quality controls that would be implemented if they were assembled overseas. My offer to you remains open for 48 hours…
Wow, that is a generous offer! Oh no wait... lol

Here's what a tech answered when someone asked about the cabinets (http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f46/audioengine-a5-bamboo-black-395711/index2.html):
Thank you for your interest. To the trained ear there will be some differences in sound between the bamboo speakers and the MDF speakers. In tuning these speakers, they were designed to sound as closely as possible to the black and white speakers but the bamboo speakers do have natural acoustic advantages being that they are made from solid bamboo. Hope this helps. Please let us know how else we can assist you!

And there you have your answer, Az. While Audiengine is "formally" admitting that bamboo does have performance advantages, they tuned these speakers to sound as close as possible to their standard variants. Isn’t this very close to what I suspected?

As you know, the Sierra-1 were DESIGNED to take advantage of the cabinet material.

Audiengine, as do many other manufacturers, seem to be taking more of the "Go-Green" approach in using bamboo. Nothing wrong with that and if you would have paid attention to what I had previously posted, ignoring your own preconceived biases and opinions -- this argument and the unsettling results of it could have been avoided.

Exhausting.......

I'll bet we will see more contrary opinions based on assumptions to further the arguments after a day or so.

Boy...talk about taking DaveF away from development work.....

Curtis,

I agree, we need to keep Dave F focused on those sierra 2's:) hint hint Dave!

I think Dave posted more on AVS in the last few hours in regard to Az's recent posts than he has done over the last month:)

Lets hope we can get things back on track in this thread as well as the other threads over at ascend forums.

Boy...talk about taking DaveF away from development work.....

It's cool... An excuse to sit inside the air-conditioned office instead of being out back melting in the heat (90+ in Gardena today), while we get the last container prepared for the office move.

Heading outside now though, I am too old for this kind of work :(

Curtis,

I agree, we need to keep Dave F focused on those sierra 2's:) hint hint Dave!

I think Dave posted more on AVS in the last few hours in regard to Az's recent posts than he has done over the last month:)

Lets hope we can get things back on track in this thread as well as the other threads over at ascend forums.

Same here, hope we can get the various discussions back on track. Regardless of what ensues when Az returns, I am finished responding to him -- here and on our forum.

Curtis,

I agree, we need to keep Dave F focused on those sierra 2's:) hint hint Dave!



+1 to this! I'd be willing to do my part to stimulate the economy by buying some even higher-output sierras :-D

Curtis,

I agree, we need to keep Dave F focused on those sierra 2's:) hint hint Dave!



.5's.... .5's.... .5's.....

:D

.5's.... .5's.... .5's.....

:D

Well, lets not push it here, we all know the sierra 2's are more important;)

Well, lets not push it here, we all know the sierra 2's are more important;)

actually, at this moment, neither are...

him getting those cherry finished sierra's out the door are priority one for me... :D

i ordered a new berkline piece for my room this saturday... 5 week lead time... so the race is on, which will get here first, the speakers or my new resting place... :)

+1 to this! I'd be willing to do my part to stimulate the economy by buying some even higher-output sierras :-D

I was thinking what could be a relatively easy design without much R&D expense would be to take the Sierra 1's and simply extend the cabinent down to the floor. Probably have to reposition the binding posts and maybe a port reshaping. Not sure if it would even require a crossover change.

I was thinking what could be a relatively easy design without much R&D expense would be to take the Sierra 1's and simply extend the cabinent down to the floor. Probably have to reposition the binding posts and maybe a port reshaping. Not sure if it would even require a crossover change.

prefacing this by saying i know NOTHING about speaker design...

i would think that if you change the interior volume of a speaker's cabinet, especially by that much, it would have a pretty significant effect...

i'd also think that the actual cabinet might be more of a challenge as well...

but again, that's just "think", not "know"...

While it can be that simple, I don't think that is Dave's style of doing things. The 170 to 340 is an example of that.

While the woofers look the same, they are not. The tweeters look the same, but the 340's have more power handling.

Every driver has a certain range of enternal enclosure volume optimal for it in any particular configuration. To turn a 5" 2-way into a high output floorstander you'd need to add a large woofer to make it a 3-way, crossing to the midrange at higher frequency to increase its dynamics and power handling. That would not only require a new crossover, but a wider cabinet unless you use a multitude of 5" woofers which is not how the serious designers do it.

It is not as cut and dry as that either, but certainly illustrates what considerations take place.

This isn't a comparison thread, and doesn't have to turn into one just to answer somebody's question. I think that most of the regular contributors to this thread are mature enough to keep things in the road and not let this turn into a pissing match. There's no need for the Gestapo approach...or is it Gazpacho...?

Exhausting.......

I just looked at this mess today, and on this point, I suspect we can all agree.

You guys all feel better now? I wouldn't want to find out all that overreaction went to waste!

I have no further questions about the Sierra-1. Some were answered (thanks), some were not, but clearly we've all passed a point where rational discussions can occur regarding the questions that I had.

I have no further questions about the Sierra-1. Some were answered (thanks), some were not, but clearly we've all passed a point where rational discussions can occur regarding the questions that I had.
Now that it has been shown that your assumptions are wrong, what questions have not been answered? I am all for making sure you have the right information to make a decision.

Now that it has been shown that your assumptions are wrong, what questions have not been answered? I am all for making sure you have the right information to make a decision.

Dave doesn't want me to continue the discussion any further. I'm going to respect his request, and not risk asking any more questions, ok? Obviously, I have to concede I'm not asking questions with very much tact.

Dave doesn't want me to continue the discussion any further. I'm going to respect his request, and not risk asking any more questions, ok? Obviously, I have to concede I'm not asking questions with very much tact.
You said you had questions unanswered. Do you also have more questions?

Dave said that he was done responding to you(unless I am missing something), but others can answer or point you to answers, and you can try adding that tact.

You said you had questions unanswered. Do you also have more questions?

I have no further questions about the Sierra-1. I believe everything I asked had at least one response provided including by Dave, so I agree now there's no need to continue.

Or – tell you what I will do for you --- I will have a pair of Sierra-1 assembled especially for you. We will not hand match or performance match the speakers and we will not include frequency response measurements. This pair will be sold as B-stock with appropriate B-stock pricing. This pair will receive the exact same type of quality controls that would be implemented if they were assembled overseas. My offer to you remains open for 48 hours…

Please don't do that. It would be a shame for someone to end up with that pair via the secondary market.

I for one am glad Ascend takes the approach they do. I can understand the need to keep costs in check, but I would hope that "Made in America" is still worth something to most people.

-Dave

Please don't do that. It would be a shame for someone to end up with that pair via the secondary market.

I for one am glad Ascend takes the approach they do. I can understand the need to keep costs in check, but I would hope that "Made in America" is still worth something to most people.

-Dave

Now I've got that Lee Greenwood song in my head. Thanks a lot, DaveH! :rolleyes:

.........

The only Ascend Sierra's made without laser-like perfection! Those would have to go for 4K on ebay just on rarity sake alone! THAT WAS A JOKE, BTW!

So it seems there was more of a refinement approach with the Sierra-1.

I personally like your focus with the other speakers of the lions share of the money being on the sound and cutting costs on everything else. Take the bamboo cabinets for example. I assume bamboo costs more. I'm also assuming the bamboo material doesn't (necessarily) improve the sound. If it did, then why wouldn't improve sound for other speakers that use it as a higher end finish? Take the "Audioengine 5's" as an example (Audioengine offers a bamboo finish for $100 more, yet quotes exactly the same figures for the speaker performance). www.audioengineusa.com

Re: building overseas. You presented that with the assumtion that overseas building = reduced quality. I respectfully disagree with that. Case and point, I wouldn't be driving a honda assembled/built in Japan, if I believed that USA makes better products (such as cars) than all other countries. My dad went with Rockets instead of Ascends. Though I personally prefer the Ascend sound, if we're going to talk about build and finish.... Dad's blows my (Ascends) away. Would MLS concede Rockets are built with reduced quality because he has a factory overseas?

Dad's speaker arrangement is like mine. The mains are a good 15'+ apart from each other. The implication here is that if they didn't near perfectly, visually match each other, I wouldn't notice it, he wouldn't notice it, and neither would you, Dave.

Catching up on this thread after being away my feeling is that you are just posting for arguments sake:rolleyes:. If you feel the Sierras are to expensive buy the Rockets. No need to keep beating a dead horse.

Re: your thoughts on the Rockets having better build quality is not an accurate assumption seeing that you have not seen the the Sierras. I owned Rocket 750s, RSC 200, Ref 1.8s, Ref 1s, Ref 100 and two UFW10s. I can tell you from experience from ACTUAL ownership that the speakers from av123 DO NOT "blow away" the build quality of the Sierras.

Almost all their speakers had rear ports that would come free if grabbed by the port. Numerous speaker binding posts were loose requiring removing drivers to tighten. Rosewood veneers with checking and nails starting to push up the veneer. That to me is not the best in quality control no matter where they are made. Just one look at the MFW-15 and you will see many horror stories of numerous issues.

I think for you to compare the build quality of av123s speakers to the Sierras is a joke IMO. Up until recently I respected Mark for his products in their price range and his company. But lately with their forum closing and many people looking for refunds for products not delivered my opinion has changed.

I have seen similar posts to yours over on Audiocircle where a member was questioning the cost of Salk Song Towers. No matter how many members that owned the STs or Jim Salk himself (as Dave has here) explained their quality this person just went on and on about how the Rocket 850s cost less. So I feel no matter what anyone says here you will still argue your point over the cost of a speaker that is an absolute bargain in the audio world. I have owned many speakers one of the last being Dynaudio Focus 140s. The 140s list for more than twice the cost the Sierras. IMO the Sierras match or have better SQ overall than the 140s. The Sierras totally blow away the Ref 1s by a large margin again IMO. This opinion is formed by actually owning all the speakers mentioned.

I think you might be happier saving your money and buying the Rockets or any other speaker than "wasting" your money on the Sierras:). Many might not notice differences in speaker appearance when being 15'+ apart including myself. But I would hope you are 15'+ away from your speakers as I would "assume" the SQ is not the best:D. That is something I would notice in a hearbeat, hmmm I wonder if Audyssey measures over 15';)?

Bill

Catching up on this thread after being away my feeling is that you are just posting for arguments sake:rolleyes:

Bill

Sorry Bill, but I stopped right there. Assuming you caught up to the very end, you presumably noted that I'm not continuing the discussion unless its to make some sort of flippant joke. :D

Sorry Bill, but I stopped right there. Assuming you caught up to the very end, you presumably noted that I'm not continuing the discussion unless its to make some sort of flippant joke. :D

I missed post #1576 my apologies on that. But I stick by my other remarks:). It is too bad you are missing out on an excellent speaker. Good luck:).

Bill

Uh oh,
Bill's dangling the carrot out there for Az to respond...........here we go again:eek:

J/k guys.

Bill,
Any word on the arrival of your new sierras with the new finishes?

Uh oh,
Bill's dangling the carrot out there for Az to respond...........here we go again:eek:

J/k guys.

Bill,
Any word on the arrival of your new sierras with the new finishes?

Nope, I put the carrot away:D. I should not have restrained myself but......;).

Not sure when the new finishes will be available but I am in no hurry:). I think Dave might have mentioned it over at the Ascend forum but I do not recall the time frame.

Bill

Any word on the arrival of your new sierras with the new finishes?

i think dave said 4-5 weeks when he made the announcement, so figure 3-4 weeks from now...

then whatever it takes for ups to get them here... usually 4-5 days from cali to jersey...

I missed post #1576 my apologies on that. But I stick by my other remarks:). It is too bad you are missing out on an excellent speaker. Good luck:).

Bill

I actually want a Sierra-1, and I'm sure I'll eventually get a pair unless the version 2 comes out before I pull the trigger. This is not new news. I know I posted that at Ascend Forum, and I probably did here too somewhere. I'm running 7.1 Ascend and I love them. I have no desire for any AV123 products, though some of them are quite attractive looking.

.......

I'm really sorry for the turmoil I contributed to causing. I state it that way because I think others have to at least be partially responsible for what they say too. In any event, if I have questions about Ascend speakers in the future, I'll try to see if I can come up with a more constructive way of asking them.

Az,

Another forum member is selling his Sierra-1's in the speaker classifieds here. You could get a sweet deal if money is holding you back.

The waiting has begun, few days ago I ordered the Sierra Espressos, I'm coming from a Yamaha 661 and Athena Point 5s with SVS Sub 10".

New system will consist of Pioneer SC-07 and front Sierra 1s, will have to think about surround upgrade later down the line and a new TV stand.

Will be used in a condo.

Rocket 850's on sale, new finishes for the Sierra 1's THIS IS THE BEST WEEK EVER. I am eating up the cherry finish.

What kind of stands do you guys use with your sierras?

I'm thinking of getting these:
http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-SF-26B-Steel-Speaker/dp/B00069DRYG/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&s=furniture&qid=1238906612&sr=1-30

I am really happy with the pedestals from Ascend, as they look less like stands and give a clean look to the Sierras.

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/access/spkstnds/pedstlcmt340.html

I've seen pics of sierras on the pedastals and it looks weird to me

Yeah, you need something like this...

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z285/vikingdwarf/BugsEyeView.jpg

:D

Jason

What kind of stands do you guys use with your sierras?

I'm thinking of getting these:
http://www.amazon.com/SANUS-SYSTEMS-SF-26B-Steel-Speaker/dp/B00069DRYG/ref=sr_1_30?ie=UTF8&s=furniture&qid=1238906612&sr=1-30

mine are on these (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100166)...

I second that! Or maybe that is third it....

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/195739210_b3EgZ-L.jpg

Yeah, you need something like this...

http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z285/vikingdwarf/BugsEyeView.jpg

:D

Jason

lol... beat me to it... :) edit: and curtis too... but i gave ya a full gallery... :)

op, i can vouch for how good the stands are that jason made... they match the natural sierra's perfectly, and they are as solid as the rock of gibraltar...

and i believe he has a set still for sale in the classifieds at a VERY good price... unless someone else has gotten them already...

are those speaker grills i see on your speakers curtis?!?!?!?! shame on you!

mine are on these (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100166)...

Your setup looks killer, Chris! I don't think I ever saw pics.

Jason

are those speaker grills i see on your speakers curtis?!?!?!?! shame on you!

Kids...:)

My son dropped one of his action figures into one of the rear ports of my Dali Euphonia the other day... Fortunately I can retrieve it.

Jason

Yes...kids....but I think the speakers look good with the grilles on as well.

Speaker ports make good hiding places for toys.

Your setup looks killer, Chris! I don't think I ever saw pics.

Jason

thanks jason... appreciate it... :)

those are some older pics... here's what it looks like now in it's "new" 7.1 configuration...

clicky (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100174)...

off topic, but what the heck... here's "ascend setup #2" in the "living room"... if my lcr naturals don't sell, they may end up down there... it's actually a little different than the pics, the display is on a different stand and there's a cbm-170 instead of a htm200 as a center now...

clicky (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100151)...

Kids...:)

My son dropped one of his action figures into one of the rear ports of my Dali Euphonia the other day... Fortunately I can retrieve it.

Jason

ah... i forgot about kids... my bad... :o the only thing i have to worry about are my cats, and they show no interest in the speakers... they do like to hang out on top of the sub though...

ugh... my nephew stuffed a toy car inside one of my old matrix's once... that was a PITA to get out... although that's not as bad as that guy who posted pics of his cat getting into his sub... another positive for sealed subs... :)

That looks great. Was that the TV stand you ended up going with? It matches pretty well.

Lemme know when your new Sierras come in. Are you doing 5 again?

Jason

That looks great. Was that the TV stand you ended up going with? It matches pretty well.

Lemme know when your new Sierras come in. Are you doing 5 again?

Jason

thanks again... :) this new setup worked out really well... getting the mains another 20 inches off the front wall increased the depth of the soundstage a BUNCH...

yea... i was mindlessly surfing one night and came across it... it's little pieces of bamboo glued to a solid frame (probably mdf or something similar, judging by the weight)... it IS a pretty close match...

the countdown is on... :) should be about 2-3 more weeks 'til dave has them ready, then figure a week to get from beautiful socal to the toxic waste dumps...

3 to start... i'm relatively pleased with using the htm-200 se's for surrounds for now... i'm hoping that within a few years, dave will produce the .5...

of course, in a few years, who knows what will be in here... if i could ever make towers "work" right in here, i like those dali's you have a lot... but i'm a "bookshelf" kinda guy these days, at least for now...

Still lovin' my Sierras:). Could not resist as this thread has been quiet since 4/28.

Bill

My Sierra 1's were delivered on Monday. I have to say I AM very impressed.
I haven't quite decided what I want to do with them yet. For now I have them in my living Room. I unplugged my Paradigm monitor 11's in my TV Room. They sound very good paired with my Atom monitors and a cc-290center!

I will probably move them to my office for 2 channel music. Anyway - great speaker. It is unbelievable the sound that comes out of such a small Package.

I Read All the posts on this thread along with many Reviews. The owners enthusiasm was a factor in my decision to buy.:D

Take care- Ed

Still lovin' my Sierras:). Could not resist as this thread has been quiet since 4/28.

Bill

right now, i'm remembering my love for my old sierras, and beginning to get more than a little fidgety waiting for my new ones to arrive...

Every time this thread gets bumped I'm hoping it's dave saying "speakers are in, and of course we're shipping out the first ones to pj325is"

Every time this thread gets bumped I'm hoping it's dave saying "speakers are in, and of course we're shipping out the first ones to pj325is"

me too... and i'll even settle for the second set out the door... :)

ordered on april 23rd, and dave said 4-5 weeks before shipping... so this coming monday will be 4 weeks... not too much longer... :D

My Sierra 1's were delivered on Monday. I have to say I AM very impressed.
I haven't quite decided what I want to do with them yet. For now I have them in my living Room. I unplugged my Paradigm monitor 11's in my TV Room. They sound very good paired with my Atom monitors and a cc-290center!

I will probably move them to my office for 2 channel music. Anyway - great speaker. It is unbelievable the sound that comes out of such a small Package.

I Read All the posts on this thread along with many Reviews. The owners enthusiasm was a factor in my decision to buy.:D

Take care- Ed
How would you compare your new Sierra's to your Monitor 11's? I am using a pair of Monitor 7's (I know - not the same speaker but a similar sound) in my theater room and I have been considering the Sierra's for a while now. Any thoughts you could provide would be greatly appreciated.

The sierra 1's compare very favorably to my Monitor 11's.They don't play as loud
due to the sensitivity being lower.I would say that overall they are just as
good as my monitor 11's in a much smaller package.Very good looking speaker.

Still lovin' my Sierras:). Could not resist as this thread has been quiet since 4/28.

It's quiet because we are enjoying the speakers. You can only post so much on how great they sound and their value. :)


The sierra 1's compare very favorably to my Monitor 11's.They don't play as loud
due to the sensitivity being lower.I would say that overall they are just as
good as my monitor 11's in a much smaller package.Very good looking speaker.
Just feed them more power. The Sierras have been compared to the Paradigm Signature line.
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3136

It's quiet because we are enjoying the speakers. You can only post so much on how great they sound and their value. :)


Very true:).

I just picked up Jeff Beck Live at Ronnie Scotts and the SQ of the CD is excellent. I had the Sierras cranked and there was no sign of them backing down. Just a super wide soundstage with unbelievable clarity and imaging.

This thread should see much more traffic once the new finishes start shipping and new owners post their thoughts.

Bill

The sierra 1's compare very favorably to my Monitor 11's.They don't play as loud
due to the sensitivity being lower.I would say that overall they are just as
good as my monitor 11's in a much smaller package.Very good looking speaker.
Thanks for the response. Based on what I have read on Sierra's and my first hand knowledge of the Paradigm Monitor line, I would assume the Sierra's have "smoother" sounding highs and more neutral mid range than the Monitors. Would you caracterize the difference as I have described or differently? And how so if you would describe them differently.

Just feed them more power. The Sierras have been compared to the Paradigm Signature line.
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3136Re: the Signature comparison: This is what I have read many times as well. I haven't found many (AKA 0 people that switch from the Monitor line to the Sierra's so far so I'm stoked to learn from a first hand account. :D

I will probably move them to my office for 2 channel music. Anyway - great speaker. It is unbelievable the sound that comes out of such a small Package.

I've had mine for about 3 months and use solely for 2 channel. I think break-in make a big difference for these. If you find the mid-bass a tad bit overpowering I highly recommend the tuning kit (port plugs) available at the Ascend website. :)

Are the new finishes shipping yet? If so anyone have shot of the new finishes "in the wild"?

Are the new finishes shipping yet? If so anyone have shot of the new finishes "in the wild"?

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showpost.php?p=32111&postcount=17

Curious, do any of you ever notice any static sounds coming from your sierra's on certain channels? I never noticed this on my old onkyo htib system (mind you they were crappy speakers). It only happens on certain channels, like fox. It's channel 23 on D*tv if anyone has that. Whenever my wife watches ugly betty, greys anatomy, etc. I hear crackling sounds at various points in the programming. I'm sure since it's just 2 or 3 channels and it never happens on other programming or games or blu rays, that it must be the programming, but is there any way to get rid of that?

I think the only solution is to not watch grey's anatomy..

Curious, do any of you ever notice any static sounds coming from your sierra's on certain channels? I never noticed this on my old onkyo htib system (mind you they were crappy speakers). It only happens on certain channels, like fox. It's channel 23 on D*tv if anyone has that. Whenever my wife watches ugly betty, greys anatomy, etc. I hear crackling sounds at various points in the programming. I'm sure since it's just 2 or 3 channels and it never happens on other programming or games or blu rays, that it must be the programming, but is there any way to get rid of that?

I've experienced these same crackling type of noises thru my 340SE's. I believe it's due to the progamming. I only notice this while watching TV programs (I have comcast). I also hear these sounds thru my TV speakers with my AVR (onkyo 606) in standby, although they don't seem to be as noticeable. I've always thought this was just due to bad signals. The noise seems to be random, noticeable only on some channels some of the time, it's not constant. It does seem to be more noticeable on HD channels. Just wanted to let you know your not the only one hearing these noises.

Yeah...TV broadcasts are not very high in quality, especially if you are not receiving them OTA....because then the signal also has to go through your satellite or cable system as well.

How's it going guys? This is my first post here on AVS and I am hoping to get some feedback about the Sierras. I recently purchased a house and I can finally crank up the stereo. Over the past few weeks I have been doing a ton of research on speakers and decided to go with new bookshelf L/C/R's. I have since bought a set of PSB Image B15's, a pair of av123 ELT525M's with matching center, and a Set of Aperion Intimus 5B's with matching center. I initially considered the CBM-170 SE but ruled them out because of aesthetics.

All of the speakers sound pretty good but I am not blown away. So far I think the PSB's sound the best, followed by the ELT525's, then the Aperions. Now I am reconsidering things. For the price I paid for the Aperions L/C/R i could almost afford a set of Sierra 1's which definitely meet the aesthetic criteria.

So now I am thinking I should get a set of Sierras and get a center somewhere down the road. I am a firm believer in spending the money to get a quality product and do not want to have buyers remorse somewhere down the road by not purchasing some Sierras.

So my question to all you is how significant is the sound improvement going to be over the speakers I mentioned above? Is it night and day or subtly different? Also I have read a ton of reviews on the Sierras but they seem to talk mostly about how they sound with music and I was wondering how well they will perform in HT duty? The speakers will be used probably 80% HT, 10% Music, and 10% Gaming.

Thank you for your time. Chris

So my question to all you is how significant is the sound improvement going to be over the speakers I mentioned above? Is it night and day or subtly different? Also I have read a ton of reviews on the Sierras but they seem to talk mostly about how they sound with music and I was wondering how well they will perform in HT duty? The speakers will be used probably 80% HT, 10% Music, and 10% Gaming.

I think the difference would be significant. The Sierras perform great with HT as they do with music, but since you are more HT than anythingelse, you might not benefit from the improvement as much. You might be better served by the CMT-340SE....but also may not meet the aesthetics criteria.

Where are you located? Maybe an owner in your area would be willing to offer you a demo.

Thank you for the reply Curtis. I have been reading many of your posts in my research of the Ascend brand speakers. After auditioning a few speakers I think aesthetics are now second to quality sound, so I have considered the 340's, but I thought for a few hundred dollars more I could step up to the Sierras.

I believe it but it seems odd to me that the 340's being such a highly regarded speaker with 2 "6.5" woofers can be bested by the Sierras with a single 5.25" woofer.

I live a little south of Ventura but I work In Santa Monica, CA. I have been considering posting on the Ascend page to try and see if someone would audition them for me.

Thanks again. Chris

I believe it but it seems odd to me that the 340's being such a highly regarded speaker with 2 "6.5" woofers can be bested by the Sierras with a single 5.25" woofer.

I live a little south of Ventura but I work In Santa Monica, CA. I have been considering posting on the Ascend page to try and see if someone would audition them for me.

Different design and goals. Ultimately, the dual woofers on the 340's will have more output than the single on the Sierra, but in their normal ranges, the Sierra's sounds better.

Although I am in the other direction, you are more than welcome to stop by my place in Manhattan Beach for a listen to the Sierras....I also have CBM-170SE's as well doing surround duty, but I can take them down for a demo as mains. You are welcome to bring your other speakers to compare as well.

I believe it but it seems odd to me that the 340's being such a highly regarded speaker with 2 "6.5" woofers can be bested by the Sierras with a single 5.25" woofer.

I haven't heard the 340's, but I was quite surprised with the bass output of the Sierra's. In fact, I use the port plugs to tone down the mid-bass a tad.

The Sierra's are a stellar feat of speaker engineering.

I have since bought a set of PSB Image B15's, a pair of av123 ELT525M's with matching center, and a Set of Aperion Intimus 5B's with matching center. I initially considered the CBM-170 SE but ruled them out because of aesthetics.

...

All of the speakers sound pretty good but I am not blown away. So far I think the PSB's sound the best, followed by the ELT525's, then the Aperions. Now I am reconsidering things. For the price I paid for the Aperions L/C/R i could almost afford a set of Sierra 1's which definitely meet the aesthetic criteria.

So my question to all you is how significant is the sound improvement going to be over the speakers I mentioned above? Is it night and day or subtly different? Also I have read a ton of reviews on the Sierras but they seem to talk mostly about how they sound with music and I was wondering how well they will perform in HT duty? The speakers will be used probably 80% HT, 10% Music, and 10% Gaming.

Thank you for your time. Chris

Hi Chris,

I haven't heard the PSB or Aperion, but I do own the ELTs, and recently bought Sierra's.

I liked the ELT sound, particularly the towers. The monitors are pretty impressive little speakers in their own right, but they really don't shine as mains. They're very inefficient, and I think they do much better in my nearfield desktop setting than they did as mains for HT before I bought the ELT towers.

My grip with the ELT setup is the center... I felt like it wasn't as good of a tonal match to the towers or monitors as I would've liked, and it seems to struggle with some voices, particularly deep male voices - sometimes there is a nasal/echo-y character. One reviewer attributed this to cabinet resonance, which I suppose could very well be the culprit. Aside from that, the speakers low end -3db point is only 74Hz, so perhaps that is why it I wasn't impressed with deeper voices from the center when using an 80Hz crossover.

Anyway, I ended up getting a used Sierra L/C/R setup recently. Overall, the differences aren't as night and day as you might think, but I do feel the Sierra is better. The Sierra is more detailed and has better clarity, and it does better with the voices that the ELT center seemed to struggle with. Where I noticed the most significant different is off-axis - it really is noticedable how much better the Sierra sounds off-axis compared to the ELT center. Perhaps this is a lobing issue due to the MTM design of the ELT. Either way, the Sierra really wins out in that area. The ELT's tweeter may be a bit smoother, but it's not as detailed as the Sierra....and the Sierra's tweeter is still far from bright or harsh.

I haven't been able to do a direct A/B comparison between the Sierra's and ELT towers, since I'm still waiting on speaker stands for the Sierra's...but I do plan to do this.

I do have one criticism of the Sierra's so far...they are less forgiving than the ELT when it comes to poorly recorded source material. One thing that has been buggin the crap out of me with the Sierra's is sibilance during some movies or tv shows - it happens much more often with tv though. I never noticed this as much with the ELT setup...but I will admit that I was concerned the Sierra's might sound bright before I heard them...so it's possible I'm also paying more attention now.

Now, back on track.... I really don't think the ELT525M/ELT525C combo can compete with a Sierra L/C/R setup. The ELT monitors are good speakers...I like them alot, but this is in a nearfield setting. As mains for HT, I don't think they can quite keep up with the Sierra's. And I've already said how I feel about Sierra vs ELT center.

Sibilance is more often than not in the recording itself and not caused by the speakers. TV shows are the worse culprits, and movies that are recorded hot........just terrible.

Getting speakers to help reduce the sibilance will also cause a loss to other sounds as well, which causes the loss of detail.

Sibilance is more often than not in the recording itself and not caused by the speakers. TV shows are the worse culprits, and movies that are recorded hot........just terrible.

Getting speakers to help reduce the sibilance will also cause a loss to other sounds as well, which causes the loss of detail.

I figured it was a source material issue.

All the more reason for me to make the jump to blu ray and lossless audio, right? :D

In all seriousness though, it's a shame the audio quality of tv shows is so poor sometimes. Hopefully sound quality will catch on like video quality did with HDTV...probably wishful thinking since so many people put their money into htib/bose setups instead of quality speakers.

Some of the best TV audio I have heard lately have been in commercials that have 5.1 sound.

In all seriousness though, it's a shame the audio quality of tv shows is so poor sometimes. Hopefully sound quality will catch on like video quality did with HDTV...probably wishful thinking since so many people put their money into htib/bose setups instead of quality speakers.

It seems to be getting worse though as satellite and cable providers try to squeak out every last bit of bandwidth. Audio is highly compressed in order to provide more bandwidth for the HD signal. It appears (at least to the cable providers) that picture quality is more important than audio quality :mad:

I have an ATT Uverse system at my home with fiber optics direct to my house and I am appalled at the audio quality... For me at least, it is almost unbearable when I listen through a Hi-Fi system.

Thanks again for the feedback and offer Curtis, I might take you up on your offer to hear the Sierras. Work is crazy this week so maybe we can work something out for next week. That is very generous of you and it could be interesting to do some A/B tests with my speakers.

Alphaiii I appreciate the input, that really helps me out since I have some basis for comparison. For sound I think the PSB's have a slight edge to the ELT's but the fit and finish on the ELT's is far superior. If I had to keep 1 set that I have now I would go with the ELT's. For $440 for the ELTm's and the center shipped it's a pretty sweet deal. I have no doubts that the Sierras will sound better I guess I have to decide now if the improved sound is worth 3 times the cost.

Hmmmm, I love the bamboo, I love what Ascend, as a company, is all about. What's a guy to do? I guess i'll think it over tonight while I mess with my new Onkyo607.

Cheers. Chris

Some of the best TV audio I have heard lately have been in commercials that have 5.1 sound.

I agree 100%. Just wondering if anyone else noticed this, so I was glad to read your post.

Hi Folks,
I am currently considering a L/C/R Sierra w/port plugs (will be in cabinet) setup. The issue is that the room is fairly big. 16'W x 28'D x8'H (3600ish cuft) Will the Sierra's be able to get "loud" enough to project to a row of seating 25' back? I really like the price point and I've heard nothing but great reviews about them.

Other Speakers on my shortlist are Klipsch because of the Horns and M&K. ( I have a local dealer)
Cheers!

I have an ATT Uverse system at my home with fiber optics direct to my house and I am appalled at the audio quality... For me at least, it is almost unbearable when I listen through a Hi-Fi system.

That's interesting! And to think I was going to "upgrade" to that as soon as it became available in my area of Little Rock.

But I agree, I've always thought the audio from my DirectTV, including DD 5.1, was always worse than comparable DD 5.1 on DVDs. Now with Blu-ray's and the lossless audio, there's just no comparison.

Hi Folks,
I am currently considering a L/C/R Sierra w/port plugs (will be in cabinet) setup. The issue is that the room is fairly big. 16'W x 28'D x8'H (3600ish cuft) Will the Sierra's be able to get "loud" enough to project to a row of seating 25' back? I really like the price point and I've heard nothing but great reviews about them.

Other Speakers on my shortlist are Klipsch because of the Horns and M&K. ( I have a local dealer)
Cheers!
Yes....they will be fine, especially if you feed them quality power.

That's interesting! And to think I was going to "upgrade" to that as soon as it became available in my area of Little Rock.

I had "thought" Uverse would be an upgrade from TW Cable but regrettably, it most certainly is not. They have many issues to work out but I am going to give them some time.

I had "thought" Uverse would be an upgrade from TW Cable but regrettably, it most certainly is not. They have many issues to work out but I am going to give them some time.
I had heard the system was buggy,

Got to say though, Verizon FiOS has been excellent all the way around.

I agree 100%. Just wondering if anyone else noticed this, so I was glad to read your post.
Yeah....it is interesting. I would be watching a commercial and thinking to myself "wow...this sounds pretty good". Maybe a new marketing technique. :)

Hi Folks,
I am currently considering a L/C/R Sierra w/port plugs (will be in cabinet) setup. The issue is that the room is fairly big. 16'W x 28'D x8'H (3600ish cuft) Will the Sierra's be able to get "loud" enough to project to a row of seating 25' back? I really like the price point and I've heard nothing but great reviews about them.

Other Speakers on my shortlist are Klipsch because of the Horns and M&K. ( I have a local dealer)
Cheers!

I have 5.1 with the Sierra's and my room is 25x15x10 over 3700 cuft and they get plenty loud for me. I dont sit that far back I'm only about 11ft from the L/C/R and I listen at about -10 on the receiver.

Hi all,
I'm a long time AVSForum reader having purchased several displays, OPPO players, etc after doing lots of research.

I've fallen into researching speakers to match with my Oppo BD player and a modest HT system and discovered recommendations around the Acend Sierra's.

I'm only 20 pages in and I began to wonder - Would someone be willing put together a FAQ post on these speakers to answer the repeated questions around specs, recommended usage/configurations, where people are located who might be willing to demo, etc?

I'd like to see recommendations regarding subs for music and/or movie situations for example and they might be buried in here, but I suspect most would like to avoid reposting responses to the newbies.

Would a leader on this thread consider doing this? All of us prospective owners (and current followers) might appreciate that greatly.


Keith

Hi all,
I'm a long time AVSForum reader having purchased several displays, OPPO players, etc after doing lots of research.

I've fallen into researching speakers to match with my Oppo BD player and a modest HT system and discovered recommendations around the Acend Sierra's.

I'm only 20 pages in and I began to wonder - Would someone be willing put together a FAQ post on these speakers to answer the repeated questions around specs, recommended usage/configurations, where people are located who might be willing to demo, etc?

I'd like to see recommendations regarding subs for music and/or movie situations for example and they might be buried in here, but I suspect most would like to avoid reposting responses to the newbies.

Would a leader on this thread consider doing this? All of us prospective owners (and current followers) might appreciate that greatly.

Hi Keith,

The very best source for the information you are looking for is to visit our website and forum. You will find tons of information on our Sierra-1 :) and of course, I welcome you to call or email us directly.

Take care!

Have any of you Sierra owners ever listened to the B&W CM1's or Monitor Audio RS1's? If so can you give me a comparison to the Sierras? Thanks for you time.

Chris

Have any of you Sierra owners ever listened to the B&W CM1's or Monitor Audio RS1's? If so can you give me a comparison to the Sierras? Thanks for you time.

Chris
Have not heard RS1...but have heard the RS6 along side the Sierra. The RS6 had less control of bass, the highs on the RS6 seem to stand out more.

The CM1 has recessed mids. The highs and lows are nice though. Knowing how much they cost, I don't think very highly of them.

Thanks, again, for your feedback Curtis. I think I am about to pull the trigger on the Sierras but I have 1 more question for you guys. Unfortunately I will need to put my center channel in a cabinet and I am wondering if the Sierra center will sound bad in a small enclosure since it's rear ported? I thought I have read this is why they make a lot of center channels in sealed cabinets. Will this be an issue, and if so will the port plugs solve it?

Also I know 3 matching speakers are best for your L/C/R's but I prefer the look of a MTM center. Are there any MTM type centers out there that might pair well with the Sierras besides the 340? (I have a width limitation of 20.5")

Chris

You can get port plugs for the Sierra center which will eliminate the problems with putting it in a cabinet. I think the Sierra center is quite good; it is probably most important to match the center to the L/R speakers.

Also I know 3 matching speakers are best for your L/C/R's but I prefer the look of a MTM center. Are there any MTM type centers out there that might pair well with the Sierras besides the 340? (I have a width limitation of 20.5")

Chris

I also would have preferred a MTM center but went with the Sierra Center with the Sierra mains. I can honestly say I do not miss the MTM design or look after having the Sierra center. At 14.25 wide the Sierra Center would fit well within your 20.5 width size limitation. It is a excellent center speaker with great clarity for dialog and blends seamlessly with the R&L Sierras.

Bill

Thanks for the feedback guys. I just ordered up a L/C/R set of the Sierras in Espresso and the port plugs. I am going to have to return the speakers that I am auditioning real soon so I am going to be left with only my HSU Ventriloquist set up for a few weeks until the Sierras arrive. :( Also i just got a new Sony 4400Es receiver that I am excited to setup but the bulb in my TV just went out. Again :( . Man I can't wait to get my Sierras. Patience was never my strong suit. Oh well hopefully in about 3 weeks I'll be back up in business again.

Cheers. Chris

I seem to be having a problem with my center channel. All of a sudden dialog sounds like it is being spoken through a tin can. I switched out the speaker cable and even tried the other speakers and all of them work fine except for the center. I emailed tech support off of ascend's website, but the last time I tried to contact Dave, it took about a week for a response. Any tips/ideas guys?

Just figured I'd update....I did an A/B comparo between the Sierra's and the ELT525T's. The speakers were run full range on my Panasonic XR55 and could not be exactly level matched...but seemed very close in volume to my ear. It was close...I really like them both.

The ELT towers were fuller sounding in the midrange, and have a nice smooth high end and respectable low end. Overall, they really are a nicely balanced speaker that is easy to listen to.

The Sierra's are more detailed throughout - "clear and crisp" sounding if you want to call it that. The highs are a bit more detailed than the ELT, and the bass it tighter and has a little more authority - impressive that this single woofer in the Sierra really can outdo the dual woofers in the ELT tower. The midrange is very clear, but sounds a little lean compared to the ELT. Is it b/c the ELT have a bit of midrange emphasis while the Sierra is neutral....or is the Sierra mid's a bit recessed?

I honestly don't know...but in the end I think both are great speakers. I also think both would benefit from more robust amplification, since neither is what I would call a sensitive speaker...but the XR55 is what I have for the time being.

I also think both would benefit from more robust amplification, since neither is what I would call a sensitive speaker...but the XR55 is what I have for the time being.
I think you are absolutely correct. The Sierras definitely show you what they are being fed.

If you haven't already, you should also try them at lower levels.

I seem to be having a problem with my center channel. All of a sudden dialog sounds like it is being spoken through a tin can. I switched out the speaker cable and even tried the other speakers and all of them work fine except for the center. I emailed tech support off of ascend's website, but the last time I tried to contact Dave, it took about a week for a response. Any tips/ideas guys?
First try swapping the center channel with either the left or right speaker.....the the "tin can" sound follows the speaker, then it is the speaker, if not and it stays with the center channel, then it is something with the receiver.

You must of tried to get a hold of Dave at a bad time. Fire off another email, or try calling.

I think you are absolutely correct. The Sierras definitely show you what they are being fed.

If you haven't already, you should also try them at lower levels.

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how loud it was during the comparison...but I definitely wasn't pushing the XR55 to it's limits. I only had the receiver to -35 - granted, in my 13x17 room, sitting 10ft away...this is still fairly loud.

I have done some lower volume listening, and I do think the resolution is pretty impressive. It's nice to be able to hear detail without needing the crank the volume.

I couldn't tell you off the top of my head how loud it was during the comparison...but I definitely wasn't pushing the XR55 to it's limits. I only had the receiver to -35 - granted, in my 13x17 room, sitting 10ft away...this is still fairly loud.

I have done some lower volume listening, and I do think the resolution is pretty impressive. It's nice to be able to hear detail without needing the crank the volume.
Yes...the Sierras resolution is great at lower levels. As volume goes up, the Sierras can play the subtle nuances which translates into better detail.

When you do get a chance to try more robust amplification, it will be interesting to find out if you notice a difference.

Still looking for some black Sierra's (LCR). If anyone is upgrading to new finishes or is otherwise looking to sell please drop me a PM...thanks.

Ok so whats the scoop/rumor for Sierra 2's?

Is there any? There was talk of a Sierra 0.5 (mini Sierra, don't remember the exact name) to use as surrounds, supposedly there was some interest, and so last I heard Ascend was looking into it, but I don't think there's ever been anything from Ascend about the Sierra-2...

We never know what Ascend has cooking until it is just about ready.

Like Grandarf says above, there seemed to be a fair amount of interest in a smaller speaker to match the Sierra, so Dave is looking into the feasibility of something like that.

I thought I caught a reference to the Sierra 2 in a post either here or over at Ascends site. Maybe it had something to do with a tower type configuration. Not sure.

I did get a chance to look through the .5 thread... keeping an eye on that one closely.

Hey guys I was wondering if someone can shed some light for a home theater system. Would it be worthwhile on a selling my paradigm monitor 11s and cc 390 and upgrading to some sierra 1 fronts and center? Would I be losing too much (fuller sound, bass etc.)?

Hey guys I was wondering if someone can shed some light for a home theater system. Would it be worthwhile on a selling my paradigm monitor 11s and cc 390 and upgrading to some sierra 1 fronts and center? Would I be losing too much (fuller sound, bass etc.)?

The CC390 bottom extension is 75hz and the Sierra's is 40hz. The Monitor 11 extends down to 48hz to the Sierra's 40hz. Take advantage of Ascend's 30 day in home trial period to audition a pair and see if you like them better.

OMG! Speakers have arrived! I ordered 3 front Espresso's, beautiful craftsmanship, speechless. Now have to look for stands.

OMG! Speakers have arrived! I ordered 3 front Espresso's, beautiful craftsmanship, speechless. Now have to look for stands.
Great. Please post pictures, especially when you get your stands.

Well, I've been enjoying my Sierras for several months now, just having them sit on a low coffee table, but my 9 month old started crawling over the 4th of July weekend. Of course he wants to pull the Sierras off the coffee table by their speaker wires:eek:
I want to get them fastened to something securely that he can't knock over and that will also conceal the speaker wires. I was looking at modifying articulating LCD wall mounts to screw into the back of the speakers.
I'm just wondering what have other parents done to secure their speakers?
My budget is pretty low. I think I could wall mount my front three for around $100. I could spend a little more than that on other solutions, but I'd like to stay as close as possible. I'm not afraid of DIY projects so don't let that hold back any suggestions.

Thanks, guys!

Just got the LCR sierras in PB YES!!!! LOVE THEM BUT wife nixed the center for size. I am stuck without a center, unless I can find something to blend with the sierras at about have the size. Any suggestions:confused:. I have ERA D4 for Surrounds and SC-07 Reciever. Any help would be awesome. Is the sierra.5 a dream or a possibilty.

Just got the LCR sierras in PB YES!!!! LOVE THEM BUT wife nixed the center for size. I am stuck without a center, unless I can find something to blend with the sierras at about have the size. Any suggestions:confused:. I have ERA D4 for Surrounds and SC-07 Reciever. Any help would be awesome. Is the sierra.5 a dream or a possibilty.
Try an HTM-200SE.

OMG! Speakers have arrived! I ordered 3 front Espresso's, beautiful craftsmanship, speechless. Now have to look for stands.

Pic please, I need a new idea for veneering :D

Im about to order some Sierra 1s for testing too!

It's not veneer though... It's stained bamboo, but I guess you could try to stain the bamboo yourself, if you're planning on using bamboo for your cabinet, or using bamboo veneer and then staining it...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/wheelzntoys/IMG_51961.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/wheelzntoys/IMG_5200.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v125/wheelzntoys/IMG_5204.jpg
Picture at the office with flash and without flash, have them on a B&W 24 stand.

You could build a cabinet out of Plyboo, if you can find somewhere to buy a sheet of it. I think it's pretty expensive though.

Im about to order some Sierra 1s for testing too!
Thought you were strictly DIY nowadays...

Thought you were strictly DIY nowadays...

Have been (I have 3 new speaker projects actually) and the house is cleared out of commerical designs now but I just bought some SB29 tweeters and Im sourcing a 8" woofer so I want to have a quality bookshelf deisgn to compare against. I only have had the Ascend HTM200 in house (last year) and they were tiny so they gave Ascend zero justice. Its time to get the much better Sierra in house and compare...even if Im a DIYer Im not completely insane not to have comparisons in house. ;)

The expresso baffles caught my eye, Im not against speaker porn :D

It's not veneer though... It's stained bamboo, but I guess you could try to stain the bamboo yourself, if you're planning on using bamboo for your cabinet, or using bamboo veneer and then staining it...

thanks, I was wondering about that.

Have been (I have 3 new speaker projects actually) and the house is cleared out of commerical designs now but I just bought some SB29 tweeters and Im sourcing a 8" woofer so I want to have a quality bookshelf deisgn to compare against. I only have had the Ascend HTM200 in house (last year) and they were tiny so they gave Ascend zero justice. Its time to get the much better Sierra in house and compare...even if Im a DIYer Im not completely insane not to have comparisons in house. ;)

The expresso baffles caught my eye, Im not against speaker porn :D
:D LOL!! Yeah...even just the pictures look good....but are you just comparing, or is the intention to keep them? If you are not intending to keep them, maybe finding an owner close by is a better route.

Have been (I have 3 new speaker projects actually) and the house is cleared out of commerical designs now but I just bought some SB29 tweeters and Im sourcing a 8" woofer so I want to have a quality bookshelf deisgn to compare against. I only have had the Ascend HTM200 in house (last year) and they were tiny so they gave Ascend zero justice. Its time to get the much better Sierra in house and compare...even if Im a DIYer Im not completely insane not to have comparisons in house. ;)

The expresso baffles caught my eye, Im not against speaker porn :D

What did you think about the HTMs? I thought about getting a pair to use as computer speakers, but shipping in Canada sort of kills the deal... (Well more exactly I already have speakers which aren't too bad... So...)

I think the Sierras make an absolutely fabulous reference for commercial designs. If you can best them, you can be pretty damn well sure no other commercial speaker around that price will best yours... Imho... Well, DIY, if I could best Sierras, I'd be extremely happy... And it's a great reference all around, imaging, soundstage, bass, midrnage, highs, resolution... If your DIY has some flaw, the Sierras should be able to point it out... Anyhow, I know these would be my reference.

Some on the Ascend forums compared them to the ACI Sapphires, about twice the price, and had the ACIs slightly ahead. ACIs had bit tighter bass, mids, but nod was to Sierras for highs. Interesting to me because I'm eying some Zaph designs with Revelator woofers, and that gives me sort of a reference... Of course, these DIY speakers would probably end up costing me more than my Sierras, but if for 1k they could just provide that little tiny thing 10k speakers have and the Sierra just seem to end up a tiny bit short (still amazing at <1000$), then I'd consider it a success.

here's a few more pics... :)

sierra's in dark cherry (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100198&view=grid&bgcolor=black&sel=12)....

Those look killer! Now for some stands and a matching sub...:)

J.

Those look killer! Now for some stands and a matching sub...:)

J.

lol... well, y'know, i contacted my contractor, but you know how those guys are... :p

Yep, congrats, they look awesome :) How do you guys like them?

me likey... :) even though the cbm's i was using while i was "sierra-less" don't suck, once i finally got a chance to really sit down and listen to some music last night, i remembered what i had been missing...

gotta admit, even though they should sound the same as the naturals i had before, there's a bit of a placebo effect to that finish... :o

I have seen posts that say the Sierra can not quite match the spl level of the 340, but exactly how loud does the Sierra play? Will they play as loud or equal to B&W 6 series or Triad Bronze or Silver series? I am sorry I do not have a very good understanding of this subject. I am just trying to understand. I want good clean and clear sound. I mostly play my receiver at -20 with movies, but I am looking for a set of speakers I can turn up a bit more if I so desire. I will be purchasing a 200 watt 5 channel amplifier as well. Please give me some type of comparison if possible. I have heard B&W Triad M&K Paradigm, actually many different types, but I am mostly concerned at this point with clean volume versus sound characteristics. Thanks guys.

What did you think about the HTMs? I thought about getting a pair to use as computer speakers, but shipping in Canada sort of kills the deal...

I use HTMs in my classroom with my computer--they are great. I'll soon have my Hsu 3mk2 in there too.

war eagle, how large is your room and how far is your listening position from the speakers...

for example, my room is approximately 13.5' by 15.5 (with a little notch on one side that's about 1.5' deep)... i sit about 7 feet from the speakers... they have no problem getting loud enough to drive you from the room... this is true whether being driven by my sc-05 or my sc-09...

my room is just a basic living room 15'x18' i believe with openings in 2 different directions. I know my questions are probably a bit uneducated, but I just want to make sure the Sierras will be able to play to very reasonable levels without strain in most "normal" living rooms or small dedicated theaters. I hope I am making sense. They really seem to be very well liked and very consistent on all of these forums. They also hit a great price point and size as well.

lol... well, y'know, i contacted my contractor, but you know how those guys are... :p

:p right back at ya! :D He'll probably get around to it this weekend if anniversary plans permit.

J.

my room is just a basic living room 15'x18' i believe with openings in 2 different directions. I know my questions are probably a bit uneducated, but I just want to make sure the Sierras will be able to play to very reasonable levels without strain in most "normal" living rooms or small dedicated theaters. I hope I am making sense. They really seem to be very well liked and very consistent on all of these forums. They also hit a great price point and size as well.
My room is about the size of yours. The Sierra can certainly drive you out of the room.

Do you know what your listening levels are like now? Ever measured?

my room is just a basic living room 15'x18' i believe with openings in 2 different directions. I know my questions are probably a bit uneducated, but I just want to make sure the Sierras will be able to play to very reasonable levels without strain in most "normal" living rooms or small dedicated theaters. I hope I am making sense. They really seem to be very well liked and very consistent on all of these forums. They also hit a great price point and size as well.

yup, you are making sense... :)

i don't think you'll have any problems playing as loud (and clear) as you like...

same question as curtis had. have you measured what your listening level really is?

what avr do you have? the external amplification may not even be necessary...

:p right back at ya! :D He'll probably get around to it this weekend if anniversary plans permit.

J.

i can wait... all good things come in due time... :)

i know better than to interrupt anniversary plans... i wouldn't want to put you on the couch... :eek: :D

I have never measured spl besides to set the speaker levels. I currently have a yamaha 90watt x 7 receiver. I have been out of the game for awhile unfortunatly. I sold my B&W's years ago when my first son started crawling. I bought the Cambridge Soundworks Ensemble and Centerstage because I could get my speakers up and out of the way. I also have a Boston Acoustic 12" small cube sub. I even stil have a HUGE 65" Mits Diamond RPTV. Time to start upgrading, I think. Especially the sub, dad gum these forums. Now that I know how great these new ones are, I have to have one. I think the Sierras will suit me great. Would a 125-150 x 5 channel amp be plenty compared to the 200 watt? thanks all, you have all been very informative.

find yourself a spl meter and do some measurements... you might be surprised... ;)

well, to be honest, i'd try them with just the avr before you even bother with the amp... it's entirely possible (read: i think likely) that you'll be fine with just that... :)

worth a shot anyway, before you spend any money... never hurts to try something that's "free" first...

ps: "war eagle". auburn fan, by any chance?

Definitely and Auburn fan!!!! Spent some great 5 years there.

I will definitely try that out first. I do have a touch of Tim Taylor in me, you know MORE POWER, but I also try to look at diminishing returns, especially in audio. I figure Sierras and a good sub around $1k will do me good. And I do hope he does the Sierra .5. That would be a great product in my opinion. Wall mountable would be a plus.

waaaaaaaar eagle HEY!!!! :D

well... i cannot deny that having more power is appealing... :)

that being said, i didn't have any problem driving 5 sierra's in a 5.1 configuration in my previous setup...

i think (big surprise, since i have essentially the same setup now, sierras up front, 4 htms for surround/back and a good sub)) you are barking up the correct tree...

you aren't alone wanting the .5's... :) if (when) dave produces them, my name will be on the pre-order list for 4... :D

my room is just a basic living room 15'x18' i believe with openings in 2 different directions. I know my questions are probably a bit uneducated, but I just want to make sure the Sierras will be able to play to very reasonable levels without strain in most "normal" living rooms or small dedicated theaters. I hope I am making sense. They really seem to be very well liked and very consistent on all of these forums. They also hit a great price point and size as well.

My room is a 17X25' room and they play to shattering levels

i can wait... all good things come in due time... :)

i know better than to interrupt anniversary plans... i wouldn't want to put you on the couch... :eek: :D

I'm quite capable of finding my own way to the couch, thank you. :)

J.

lol... aren't we all... :)

What did you think about the HTMs? I thought about getting a pair to use as computer speakers, but shipping in Canada sort of kills the deal... (Well more exactly I already have speakers which aren't too bad... So...)

I think the Sierras make an absolutely fabulous reference for commercial designs. If you can best them, you can be pretty damn well sure no other commercial speaker around that price will best yours... Imho... Well, DIY, if I could best Sierras, I'd be extremely happy... And it's a great reference all around, imaging, soundstage, bass, midrnage, highs, resolution... If your DIY has some flaw, the Sierras should be able to point it out... Anyhow, I know these would be my reference.

Some on the Ascend forums compared them to the ACI Sapphires, about twice the price, and had the ACIs slightly ahead. ACIs had bit tighter bass, mids, but nod was to Sierras for highs. Interesting to me because I'm eying some Zaph designs with Revelator woofers, and that gives me sort of a reference... Of course, these DIY speakers would probably end up costing me more than my Sierras, but if for 1k they could just provide that little tiny thing 10k speakers have and the Sierra just seem to end up a tiny bit short (still amazing at <1000$), then I'd consider it a success.

Cool to hear....As for the HTMs for little speakers they were okay but I thought the Emotiva ERM-1s had a better sound (more low end) to them when I compared both. HTMs had zero bass but that is obvious because they are so small. Even the ELT525Ms from AV123 seem bigger. Note, none of these listed have true low end..they are all small.



They might be good as computer speakers though with a decent bass box that does upto 200Hz.

btw, Zaph has great designs!!! If you do not want to build the box Nik Brewer over on the Parts Express forum builds boxes for DIY projects and IMO its a great price about $50 to $90 a box (plus shipping), depending on the size. He does an incredible and accurate job too. Only drawback is that he has lots of orders.

:D LOL!! Yeah...even just the pictures look good....but are you just comparing, or is the intention to keep them? If you are not intending to keep them, maybe finding an owner close by is a better route.

If they are as good as allthat I read about them then I will keep them. There is just something about not having a comercial speaker in my house these days that is convincing me to buy these.

Cool to hear....As for the HTMs for little speakers they were okay but I thought the Emotiva ERM-1s had a better sound (more low end) to them when I compared both. HTMs had zero bass but that is obvious because they are so small. Even the ELT525Ms from AV123 seem bigger. Note, none of these listed have true low end..they are all small.

Did you have the original HTM-200, or the SE verision? I believe the 200se's have a better bass response in addition to the updated SEAS tweeter...could be wrong on that though...

Did you have the original HTM-200, or the SE verision? I believe the 200se's have a better bass response in addition to the updated SEAS tweeter...could be wrong on that though...

that would be correct on both... :)

i have a pair of the originals and a pair of the se's... the se's will never be confused for bass monsters, but they are better than the originals... they are more than adequate for surround duty, imo... and i used a pair of them temporarily downstairs after "someone" bought my original sierra's (how do you like them, btw?) for awhile, and while they were somewhat wanting, they did the job in a pinch...

hey penn, make a trip up to the wilds of jersey... i'll give you a demo of the sierras... :)

I just checked my old emails, it was the HTM-200 SE

Again, The did great with the highs but zero low end. I wouldn't expect them to do much though. You can not break the laws of physics meaning no one should expect low end performance from small drivers in a small box...it just is phsyically impossible.

But expectations will vary.

Well, I've been enjoying my Sierras for several months now, just having them sit on a low coffee table, but my 9 month old started crawling over the 4th of July weekend. Of course he wants to pull the Sierras off the coffee table by their speaker wires:eek:
I want to get them fastened to something securely that he can't knock over and that will also conceal the speaker wires. I was looking at modifying articulating LCD wall mounts to screw into the back of the speakers.
I'm just wondering what have other parents done to secure their speakers?
My budget is pretty low. I think I could wall mount my front three for around $100. I could spend a little more than that on other solutions, but I'd like to stay as close as possible. I'm not afraid of DIY projects so don't let that hold back any suggestions.

Hi Nickmo,

Look here for wall mounts that work well with Sierra-1 http://www.btech-usa.com/bt77.html

TV wall mounts work well too but are less discrete.

Are the Sierra's really comparable to tower speakers? Do they have a big sound? Also will all the wall mounts from btech work the Sierra's? I think I'm starting to get the Sierra fever:eek::)

Are the Sierra's really comparable to tower speakers? Do they have a big sound? Also will all the wall mounts from btech work the Sierra's? I think I'm starting to get the Sierra fever:eek::)

I will give some feedback on your question tomorrow. I just sold some tower speakers; in fact thats all I've ever owned. My Sierra-1's showed up today. I will put them through the wringer tonight.

Dan

Some on the Ascend forums compared them to the ACI Sapphires, about twice the price, and had the ACIs slightly ahead. ACIs had bit tighter bass, mids, but nod was to Sierras for highs. Interesting to me because I'm eying some Zaph designs with Revelator woofers, and that gives me sort of a reference... Of course, these DIY speakers would probably end up costing me more than my Sierras, but if for 1k they could just provide that little tiny thing 10k speakers have and the Sierra just seem to end up a tiny bit short (still amazing at <1000$), then I'd consider it a success.
And btw, that guy who had purchased the ACIs ended up purchasing a pair of Sierra a bit after comparison :D

TKYR67 said:
The ACI Sapphire XL is truly an amazing speaker but I am a "more BANG for the BUCK" kind of guy and the Sierra-1 got me pretty much there at half the price. Don't get me wrong, if money was no object I would own the Sapphire XL but in this economy money matters. If I can get amazing sound reproduction and keep some money in my pocket at the same time, it's not hard to decide which way to go.

Are the Sierra's really comparable to tower speakers?
It depends which tower speaker :p

Do they have a big sound?
Define big. Funny thing is, heard the biggest, latest Wilson, and they sounded big. They were coupled with that 6 inch tall giant sub of theirs too. But they made everything seem 'big'. Ex: Seemed like a singer was 25 feet tall or something, violin 2 meters wide... Anyhow, that's probably not what you meant.

Yeah sure, Sierras sound big. They'll give up a bit say if you compare them to Paradigm's Signature 100, of course, but they definitely sound 'big' for bookshelves, but they're actually not that small either. But if you took 5 random floorstanders from $1-2k, and blind tested them to see if listeners could identify the bookshelf vs floorstander in a medium room, depending on the speakers selected of course, I doubt the sierras would be picked consistently, they definitely don't sound 'small'... Add a sub, and then it would become impossible to tell them from floorstanders...

Yeah sure, Sierras sound big. They'll give up a bit say if you compare them to Paradigm's Signature 100, of course, but they definitely sound 'big' for bookshelves, but they're actually not that small either. But if you took 5 random floorstanders from $1-2k, and blind tested them to see if listeners could identify the bookshelf vs floorstander in a medium room, depending on the speakers selected of course, I doubt the sierras would be picked consistently, they definitely don't sound 'small'... Add a sub, and then it would become impossible to tell them from floorstanders...

Just to add to a portion of your quote here, in my 16 x 21 room they sound great. They don't sound small but they don't go as deep as tower speakers I've owned. I am really enjoying the top end. In my own words-not to forward(bright) and not to soft(laid back). The mid range punch is impressive. I use the movie Open Range (gun fight scene) as an example. It is very heavy with LCR sound reproduction. I thought the Sierra's handled it with no problem. I even turned up the volume on my NAD receiver higher than I usually do-the Sierra's didn't sweat it. Listening to 2ch music at a medium volume sounded very nice. The deep bass was missing once I turned the volume up. But if I'm going to blast music, I'm going to use a sub. The Sierra's are not as efficient as my Rocket towers I used before. I do have to turn the volume knob a few clicks higher to get the same volume. Not a big deal. The piano black is classy looking-will have to stay on top of the dusting around the house.

Dan

Dan, if you want deeper extension, try Q plug "B". It will give you a little deeper extension, but sacrifice a bit of that punch.

Do you guys run the sierra1 with or without a sub for music?? Its not bad without sub under lower volume. It was missing 'something' when its med to loud. I prefer to have my rymthik F15 on with the sierra1 by a long shot.

The sierra1 replaced my axiom m2s as main. I still have a vp100 as center. I was wonder if a sierra center would be alot better?? i have no problem with the vp100 now, but i do wonder if dialog would be clearer in movies/tvs. If it is, i will be getting a sierra center asap.

with sub...

even when i had towers, i used a sub...

i personally would replace the center...

The piano black is classy looking-will have to stay on top of the dusting around the house.
Dan

I have the Piano Black too and they do require a fair amount of dusting;). I will be getting either Dark Cherry or the Expresso but have not had time to decide which finish I want.

Bill

Do you guys run the sierra1 with or without a sub for music?? Its not bad without sub under lower volume. It was missing 'something' when its med to loud. I prefer to have my rymthik F15 on with the sierra1 by a long shot.

The sierra1 replaced my axiom m2s as main. I still have a vp100 as center. I was wonder if a sierra center would be alot better?? i have no problem with the vp100 now, but i do wonder if dialog would be clearer in movies/tvs. If it is, i will be getting a sierra center asap.

I would also recommend getting a Sierra center as well. I have three Sierras across the front and the imaging with movies is totally seamless. Dialog is also very clear and seems to be coming right out of my plasma even though the center is 12" below the display. Well worth the investment:).

Bill

I have the Piano Black too and they do require a fair amount of dusting;). I will be getting either Dark Cherry or the Expresso but have not had time to decide which finish I want.

Bill

well, one thing is for sure... you won't be able to get rid of your duster... ;)

well, one thing is for sure... you won't be able to get rid of your duster... ;)

That would mean I would have to fire myself:D. I am sure the new finish will require dusting as well;). I am a little over the top with my gear. How many people do you know that dusts under their components:eek:. I am often referred to as Bill MaClean:D.

Did you get your new Sierras yet? What finish did you get?

Bill

I guess i will need to save my pennies to get a sierra center then. btw, my expresso sierra1 attracts dust like megan fox attracts horny boys.

That would mean I would have to fire myself:D. I am sure the new finish will require dusting as well;). I am a little over the top with my gear. How many people do you know that dusts under their components:eek:. I am often referred to as Bill MaClean:D.

Did you get your new Sierras yet? What finish did you get?

Bill

lol! now that's impressive. mine are lucky if they get an occasional swipe with a duster... :o

yup, they are here. i got the dark cherry.

here's some eye candy (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100198)... :)

That would mean I would have to fire myself:D. I am sure the new finish will require dusting as well;). I am a little over the top with my gear. How many people do you know that dusts under their components:eek:. I am often referred to as Bill MaClean:D.

Did you get your new Sierras yet? What finish did you get?

Bill

Take a guess how my sierras are cleaned;)
















Hint............see username:eek:

Howdy Bill,
Hope all is well!

Brandon

lol! now that's impressive. mine are lucky if they get an occasional swipe with a duster... :o

yup, they are here. i got the dark cherry.

here's some eye candy (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100198)... :)

Chris,

I am leaning toward the Dark Cherry as well. Could you post some pictures? Also a much more important question, how do they sound:).

Bill

Take a guess how my sierras are cleaned;)

Hint............see username:eek:

Howdy Bill,
Hope all is well!

Brandon

lol... they actually clean the rest of my house, but the a/v equipment i do myself...

Chris,

I am leaning toward the Dark Cherry as well. Could you post some pictures? Also a much more important question, how do they sound:).

Bill

hmmm... was my link broken? let's try again:

pics ofdark cherry sierra's (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100198)

they sound GRRRRRRRRREAT!! even better than i remember them sounding... :)

edit: if you want any specific angles on the pics of the speakers, lemme know and i'll take them... :)

Take a guess how my sierras are cleaned;)


Hint............see username:eek:

Howdy Bill,
Hope all is well!

Brandon

Hey Brandon,

You have a unfair advantage, all the latest high tech cleaning devices:D. All is well here in Maine if would just stop raining:rolleyes:. We have had about 25 rainy days in the last month:eek:. Oh well it beats the snow. I hope all is well in WI:)!

Bill

pics ofdark cherry sierra's (http://gallery.me.com/ccotenj1#100198)

they sound GRRRRRRRRREAT!! even better than i remember them sounding... :)

edit: if you want any specific angles on the pics of the speakers, lemme know and i'll take them... :)

Chris,

Thanks for posting the pictures:). I could not open the link as I am in work and just about everything is filtered. If they filter out AVS I am quitting:D. I will open it up when I get home. I am glad they sound as good as you remembered:).

Bill

bill, it's STILL raining in maine??? :eek: we were up there for a long weekend the last weekend in june, and it rained the whole time we were there... the relatives i visited said it had been like that for weeks... you must be underwater by now... :(

Chris,

Thanks for posting the pictures:). I could not open the link as I am in work and just about everything is filtered. If they filter out AVS I am quitting:D. I will open it up when I get home. I am glad they sound as good as you remembered:).

Bill

ah, ok... :o when i get home, i'll post them on this thread... :)

bill, it's STILL raining in maine??? :eek: we were up there for a long weekend the last weekend in june, and it rained the whole time we were there... the relatives i visited said it had been like that for weeks... you must be underwater by now... :(

Chris,

Yes it is still raining:rolleyes:. Fortunatly we have not had any flooding issues in our area. I feel real bad for people like yourself that come up for the weekend or a weeks vacation. I can just imagine having a cottage for a week with a bunch of kids and not being able to go to the beach:eek:.

What part did you visit? I'm in York so chances are good you passed right through. If you ever head up again let me know I will give you the $.5 tour:).

Bill

ah, ok... :o when i get home, i'll post them on this thread... :)

Chris,

No problem as the link is probably fine. Don't feel bad I have yet to figure out how to post pictures here:o. When I had my Dynaudio setup a member asked me to post some pictures. I had to have another member post them after I e-mailed them to him:).

Bill

[QUOTE=ccotenj;16882433]lol... they actually clean the rest of my house, but the a/v equipment i do myself... QUOTE]

Thats funny. I own two franchises in SE WI. I have notes on file for my office that cleans my house(not often enough) not to touch the A/V gear also:D

I have to say guys, the piano black sierras will sound better;)

Bill,
Sorry to hear about all the rain, its been mild here not overly warm but decent for summer. Been doing some boating and etc, other than that working!

Screw you guys! Naturals baby(with custom JC stands)!! :D

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/233956618_EeTHE-L.jpg

Bill,
Sorry to hear about all the rain, its been mild here not overly warm but decent for summer. Been doing some boating and etc, other than that working!

Brandon,

I have been working crazy hours as well so I have not had much time for the beach. So I have not missed much with the bad weather. Last weekend was the first full weekend I have had off and the weather was perfect. I have next week off so the odds are in my favor that the weather will be good:)

Bill

What part did you visit? I'm in York so chances are good you passed right through. If you ever head up again let me know I will give you the $.5 tour:).

Bill

we stayed in ogunquit, so yup, you are right next door... we usually come up in june and again in october (i.e. before and after the canucks arrive :p )... my dad is from biddeford and my mom is from saco... i need to make my twice a year pilgrimage to get lobster stew from newicks and clamcakes from kens... :D i will definitely give you a heads up next time we are there... :)



Thats funny. I own two franchises in SE WI. I have notes on file for my office that cleans my house(not often enough) not to touch the A/V gear also:D


i wish i could convince them to keep their hands off of mine... i keep telling them... they keep messing with it...

Screw you guys! Naturals baby(with custom JC stands)!! :D

http://changpics.smugmug.com/photos/233956618_EeTHE-L.jpg

that's like, so old school, curtis... ;)

Full magnetic shielding, yes? no?

Check their website; it's noted there. (http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html) (available at additional charge)

I mean to have Sierra's with full magnetic shielding or not?

i mean to have sierra's with full magnetic shielding or not?

40$

What's your reason for needing magnetic shielding?

What's your reason for needing magnetic shielding?

How much of a effect will it have on sound?

How much of a effect will it have on sound?
No effect.

Why do you need it? What type of TV do you have?

No effect.

Why do you need it? What type of TV do you have?

I was just wondering about the sound effects, if they sounded different.

http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/calvieee/seirra1.jpg
Espresso Sierra 1 in da house :)

woot! nice! :D let's have some shots of the whole setup...

This is my bedroom. Its an axiom m2,vp100,qs4,hsu stf2 setup for like the last 4-5 years. This year i upgraded to a Rythmik F15 and i just got my Sierra 1 front a couple of weeks ago. Next up is a Sierra center, maybe a bigger Hdtv, a new Desk. Need to save my pennies.
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/calvieee/seirra2.jpg
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz194/calvieee/F15vsSTF2.jpg

Very nice calvieee :) Are you using the plugs btw? They seem pretty close to back wall, maybe it would help.

but no offense, lol, but I hope that center isn't plugged in! The center in this case is absolutely useless and even a liability. I have a similar setup, with regular sized speakers used as nearfield monitors (old JVCs (http://kent.gumtree.com/kent/04/39044604.html)) for the computer, and there is absolutely no need to have a center as the center imaging couldn't be any better since you're sitting 100% in the center of the two speakers. The center is mostly for people sitting off center, if you're sitting in the middle, you don't really need a center...

Also with the different height and the different sound, I'm sure it would sound a lot better simply not using a center channel. You'd be much better off, imho, using no center at all (phantom center).

Are they not making the Cherry finish anymore? Now if the natural is all bamboo what is the Piano finish made from?

Are they not making the Cherry finish anymore? Now if the natural is all bamboo what is the Piano finish made from?
All the cabinets are 100% bamboo. The natural is a low gloss clear finish. The piano black is just that...a piano black finish on top of the bamboo.

And then there are the new premium high gloss finishes, expresso and cherry, which are both "stains" applied to the bamboo with a high gloss clear coat.

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3963

Are they not making the Cherry finish anymore? Now if the natural is all bamboo what is the Piano finish made from?

I believe Ascend has two cherry finishes, one darker than the other. All Sierras are made of bamboo including the piano black.

Damnit! Curtis beat me! :-)

This page has some great photos of the new finishes:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=3963&page=4

I received my Dark Cherry Sierra's today after a little scare with UPS:(. I received an e-mail that the Sierra's were delivered at 4:28pm at my front door, well they were not there:rolleyes:. I called the 800 line for UPS and they were not very helpful. I called the local UPS center where the truck with the speakers were dispatched from. The woman was very nice and said she would check into it. About 30 minutes later a red hatchback pulls in my driveway and out gets a UPS driver in full uniform:eek:. Needless to say the driver goofed up and delivered them in his own vehicle. A happy ending was had by all:D.

Well now to the good stuff the Dark Cherry Sierra's are outstanding looking and I just got them setup. I am sure they will sound every bit as good as my Piano Black Sierra's. I would like to thank Dave and Dina for taking care of me. Ascend's service is among the best I have ever experienced and I highly recommend Ascend to anyone looking for excellent speakers with service to match:).

Bill

ain't they purty bill? :D well worth the wait...

how about some pictures??? c'mon, share... :)

This wouldn't have been the UPS driver perchance?

http://billyblastdrums.easystorecreator.com/images/images_10526/UPS%20Girl.jpg

ain't they purty bill? :D well worth the wait...

how about some pictures??? c'mon, share... :)

Hey Chris,

They sure are:). I would post pictures but have yet to figure out how to post them:o. Now if I only had the picture posting skills of Chu I could really get creative:D!

Bill

This wouldn't have been the UPS driver perchance?

http://billyblastdrums.easystorecreator.com/images/images_10526/UPS%20Girl.jpg

No it wasn't but close, she didn't have the hat on otherwise it could have been her twin:D. I'm the one that had a hat on;).

Bill

No it wasn't but close, she didn't have the hat on otherwise it could have been her twin:D. I'm the one that had a hat on;).

Bill

Bill,

You did mention a happy ending....was it because of the UPS gal or the speakers:D:p

Kidding aside, glad you like the new sierra finish!