Now that it's out and there are owners who have them, I thought it made sense to start an "official" thread for this speaker so that owners can share their experiences and support the product.

Only a couple of people, myself included, have a pair since we were able pick them them up on Friday.

Since actual shipping starts this week, I think people will be posting soon after.

I am tempted to head over on Monday. I'm not sure yet. I could always return them if I didn't like them in my room.

Only a couple of people, myself included, have a pair since we were able pick them them up on Friday.

Since actual shipping starts this week, I think people will be posting soon after.
I figured as much but that it would be good to start a support thread so we can get all the comments under one roof!

Only a couple of people, myself included, have a pair I've often thought that about this forum. ;)

But seriously, since it's a couple people, it is the owners thread, not just the owner thread. :)

From my post at the Ascend forum:

Based on my listening at Curtis's house last night, there is a definite difference between the speakers.

If they were photographs, the 340 would be slightly out of focus compared to the Sierras, as if there were a very fine gauze between me and the speaker.

Given my experience with the 340, this is insane since the 340s are simply excellent.

The bass on the Sierra is better, not merely because it goes lower, but it is tighter and punchier. Again, given the strengths of the 340, it was an odd experience.

I think the cabinet is making a significant difference. I noticed a significant improvement, for example, in the sound in my car when I sound deadened the doors. I think the cabinet on the Sierra has much of the same effect. I'm pretty ignorant about the tech side of sound, however.

This is geography discrimination. I ordered mine before Curtis went over to suck up to David and got a pair to take home.

Where is Al Sharpton - my rights have been violated. :D

This is geography discrimination. I ordered mine before Curtis went over to suck up to David and got a pair to take home.

Where is Al Sharpton - my rights have been violated. :D

And we have better weather too.

Considering all the other advantages you have, you should be happy for us.

Haha, I beat you too Craig! :) :)

I am in love with these speakers. Listening to music on them is such a joy.

Hey...I was resigned to having mine tomorrow or Tuesday. I told Dave I would call after my son's baseball game on Friday evening just in case things got rolling sooner. Dave was still there, and had three ready(actually at least five, because another forum member arrived as I was leaving). I got lucky.

I didn't suck up....well, at least not much. :D

Off to see "Shrek the Third".

Has anyone tried to mate them to a sub? How do they work? The previous Ascends seemed to trade low end extension for tightness helping to ease the transition to a sub: is that the case with the Sierras?

It's all good - at least this way, Curtis PROBABLY won't follow through on the threat to make his mark on my Piano Black Sierra's before they ship.

I do believe he was going to moon me on the speakers - which is pretty scary ... :eek:

Has anyone tried to mate them to a sub? How do they work? The previous Ascends seemed to trade low end extension for tightness helping to ease the transition to a sub: is that the case with the Sierras?
mziegler and I did a bit last night.

The Sierras do not lack in tightness. In fact, I think it is tighter than the 340, along with being deeper and punchier.

It's all good - at least this way, Curtis PROBABLY won't follow through on the threat to make his mark on my Piano Black Sierra's before they ship.

I do believe he was going to moon me on the speakers - which is pretty scary ... :eek:
LOL!

I think the Sierras go down to 45 hz. There obviously is lower extension when we compared them directly to the 340.

Curtis had only matched the Sierras to his rear speakers. There is 3db difference between the 340 and Sierra, and he hadn't yet matched the sub. He did turn on the sub at one point, but I don't think we were listening to bass-heavy music.

Curtis will have to confirm this later.

On another note, we also listened to a regular and SACD version of the same album. The difference was pretty noticeable, on an order of the difference between the 340 and Sierra.

It's all good - at least this way, Curtis PROBABLY won't follow through on the threat to make his mark on my Piano Black Sierra's before they ship.

I do believe he was going to moon me on the speakers - which is pretty scary ... :eek:

And he's thumbing his nose at you too...

Based on my listening, I would say the Sierras get down to at least 40hz if not a little lower. For music they sound fantastic without a sub.

p.s. I have three cbm-170se for sale if anyone is interested. Local pickup preferred. I'm in Lomita, CA.

Local pickup preferred. I'm in Lomita, CA.

Wow, we are neighbors.

back from the movie(I was not too impressed)

This week, I will try the system more with a sub. Right now, the front three are all set to large.

I was quoted tuesday as the probably pickup date... soon to join the club

I was quoted tuesday as the probably pickup date... soon to join the club
Looking forward to some new thoughts.

Wow, we are neighbors.

Cool, what kind of system do you have?

Hey Curtis what movie are you talking about?

Hey Curtis what movie are you talking about?
Shrek the Third

Shrek the Third

I saw it with the girls yesterday.... pretty lame if you ask me.

I have gotten a few PM's for a test similar to the bookshelf program we have in another thread ... this one comparing the Sierra's to the ACI Sapphire XL's.

We can do the whole level matching and instant A/B switching thing - and blind listening, too.

As with the budget bookshelf stuff, this won't be to pick a "winner", as we use a pretty wide group of listeners - but rather they give impressions.

If anyone else is interested, please let me know - including if you live close enough to Erie to participate.

Craig- Are Dave and Mike going to sign off on that?

As the details of the Seirra were revealed and considering David's 1500 to 4000 comment I immediatly thought the XLs would be stiff competetion.

I would be very interested in reading your comparison.

If anyone else is interested, please let me know - including if you live close enough to Erie to participate.
I'm definitely interested and close enough to Erie to participate...you're about an hour east of us.

J.

Craig- Are Dave and Mike going to sign off on that?

Mike is quite comfortable with these situations. I don't want a lot of fuss or angst about this, and am pretty sure no on else does, either. As you named the Sierras, why not make you the "point man" on this ?

Check with David, and if he is ok with the idea, please let us know. If he isn't, drop me a PM, and it won't be mentioned again. :)

The Basic set up is this:

1. Speakers will be set up in an ABAB fashion
2. They will be level matched using white noise, Gold Line Microphones and calibrators, M-Audio external pre-amp as a sound card, and True RTA's latest software.
3. Switching is done via remote, and is instantaneous.
4. The differences in various qualities are noted by the listeners, such as Jason. Their notes will include things like omaging, soudstage width and depth ... etc ...
5. It is not a preference test - though most people do seem to inherently pick a "winner", regardless how many times they are told not to.

If anyone else is interested, please let me know - including if you live close enough to Erie to participate. As usual, I'm always available and interested, and would love to hear the Sierras. :)

Fellas:

This thread was started (by me) as a Sierra support thread. Could we take the comparos to another thread? David just closed another Sierra thread that wasn't "support".

Chris (Tex-Amp) - If there is any interest in this, please open a new thread, and feel free to copy-paste the guidelines I posted here.

Tony ... No worries. I won't mention another word here about a comparo... :)

Mike is quite comfortable with these situations. I don't want a lot of fuss or angst about this, and am pretty sure no on else does, either. As you named the Sierras, why not make you the "point man" on this ?

Check with David, and if he is ok with the idea, please let us know. If he isn't, drop me a PM, and it won't be mentioned again. :)

The Basic set up is this:

1. Speakers will be set up in an ABAB fashion
2. They will be level matched using white noise, Gold Line Microphones and calibrators, M-Audio external pre-amp as a sound card, and True RTA's latest software.
3. Switching is done via remote, and is instantaneous.
4. The differences in various qualities are noted by the listeners, such as Jason. Their notes will include things like omaging, soudstage width and depth ... etc ...
5. It is not a preference test - though most people do seem to inherently pick a "winner", regardless how many times they are told not to.

I don't work for Ascend. You claim on another thread you always get the manufacturer's permission before you do these tests. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10412131&&#post10412131

Chris, It is not a claim, it is what I do. I was asked via PM's to do this comparison. I have asked openly if there is any interest. You asked if David had signed off on this. As I was not planning on any comparisons until asked to do so, and as of now, there is no set plans for a comparison, there was no reason to ask David anything.

I thought you might like to be involved in assisting with a listening comparo made up of AVS members. Apparently, I was in error. Please, accept my apologies, and we will move on.

I am purchasing a set of Sierras for my own personal use, and we can leave it at that.

Tony is correct, this is a support thread. After receiving mine, if anyone needs assistance in obtaining the maximum performance from his or her Sierras, I will attempt to help. :)

From the graphs on the Ascend forum it appears the Sierras have a sensitivity of 85dB @ 2.83 volts @ 1 meter. Can anyone confirm this is correct?

From the graphs on the Ascend forum it appears the Sierras have a sensitivity of 85dB @ 2.83 volts @ 1 meter. Can anyone confirm this is correct?
David posted 87dB.

Although not scientific, they do seem to be 3dB less efficient than my 340SE's.

Given that it obviously varies by frequency, the sensitivity could be pegged as 87 or 85, depending on how you want to call it. I'd probably peg it at 85 from what I see, but its not like that will compare with what other manufacturers pull out of their rears.

Given that it obviously varies by output, the sensitivity could be pegged as 87 or 85, depending on how you want to call it. I'd probably peg it at 85 from what I see, but its not like that will compare with what other manufacturers pull out of their rears.
Agreed...when using my 340SE's or 170SE's as baselines, other speakers' sensitivity ratings vary by a fair amount when compared to the manufacturer spec.

Chris, It is not a claim, it is what I do. I was asked via PM's to do this comparison. I have asked openly if there is any interest. You asked if David had signed off on this. As I was not planning on any comparisons until asked to do so, and as of now, there is no set plans for a comparison, there was no reason to ask David anything.

I thought you might like to be involved in assisting with a listening comparo made up of AVS members. Apparently, I was in error. Please, accept my apologies, and we will move on.

I am purchasing a set of Sierras for my own personal use, and we can leave it at that.

Tony is correct, this is a support thread. After receiving mine, if anyone needs assistance in obtaining the maximum performance from his or her Sierras, I will attempt to help. :)

No matter what you do Craig.... in some peoples eyes, you are going to be wrong. A shame really, when someone with your resources and passion for the hobby tries to do on a regular basis, something that a lot of us can only dream of doing. You always end up getting way more grief than you deserve.

I, for one, am VERY interested in the new Sierra's and how they might compare to my Ref 1's. ANY comparative testing you do, most especially with the Saphire XL's, since I'm extremely familiar with those, would be appreciated.

Thanks for your efforts.

Doesn't Craig have access to the Strata Mini's as well? Now *that* would be an interesting comparison. While it is obviously an unfair fight in terms of bass capabilities, it would be extremely interesting to see how they compare in spatial imaging, tonality, etc. And given the fact that it competes in the 1500-4000 range (and that was originally quoted in its debut), I would think that should be fun.

Fellas:

This thread was started (by me) as a Sierra support thread. Could we take the comparos to another thread? David just closed another Sierra thread that wasn't "support".
I'm sure many would love to discuss the Sierra vs other products, but this isn't the place to do so. If you want, you can start a new thread for Sierra vs ACI XL, or whatever other product...

Here, I created the thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=850414

If we could keep this to the subject at hand it would be great. Still waiting for my pair to arrive. :)

Yeah, let me know how that's working out for you...what a great way to throw fuel on an already blazing fire. :rolleyes: I think the thread existed for about 10 minutes before being rightly axed.

J.

This thread was started (by me) as a Sierra support thread.
Tony,

Are you already an owner, or have you just purchased or plan to purchase the Sierras?

J.

With all the other versus threads on this forum, I personally think its a load of BS. We aren't asking to definitively crown a winner. We just want to know what people think of the differences. But hey, if the admins want to censor, by all means, they can censor.

Tony,

Are you already an owner, or have you just purchased or plan to purchase the Sierras?

J.
I am not an owner, but an interested observer. I've currently got a pile of speakers at home (check my profile) and have always admired Dave's work. I thought it would be good to start a thread without all the rancor as I think lots of folks will be interested in the Sierras and would like to obtain information without the tit vs tat back and forth.

With all the other versus threads on this forum, I personally think its a load of BS. We aren't asking to definitively crown a winner. We just want to know what people think of the differences. But hey, if the admins want to censor, by all means, they can censor.

Without comparisons, describing sound is quite difficult.

Based on my listening, I would say the Sierras get down to at least 40hz if not a little lower. For music they sound fantastic without a sub.

p.s. I have three cbm-170se for sale if anyone is interested. Local pickup preferred. I'm in Lomita, CA.

Xcjago, Can you give us your thoughts regarding the 170SEs and Sierras?

Without comparisons, describing sound is quite difficult.
What about comparing the sound to the real thing?

I am really looking forward to the reviews, that price kills me, I am going to have to see how much I can get for some of my audio and video equipment I am not using. I really shouldn't be spending any money at the moment but they sounds like they are going to be some great speakers. I still love my 340se, but if these are a decent upgrade I am going to want to upgrade.

Before this I was thinking I had to spend a good bit more than what I spent for my 340se to get a good upgrade but it sounds like this could be the upgrade I would like at a price I can do. Why do they have to do this too me, just charge 1500+ and make it so I wouldn't think about upgrading.

I thought it would be good to start a thread without all the rancor as I think lots of folks will be interested in the Sierras and would like to obtain information without the tit vs tat back and forth.
Well hopefully this thread (unlike the others) can stay that way.

J.

What about comparing the sound to the real thing?

Okay, I'll bite:

There are very few, if any, circumstances where we know what the "real thing" sounded like when we listen to a recording.

Another thing: what the heck is a "support thread" when it comes to a loudspeaker?? What kind of support are we talking about?

Xcjago, Can you give us your thoughts regarding the 170SEs and Sierras?

Well, I haven't put the 170SEs back up since I got the Sierras. The 170SE is a great speaker, especially for the price, but the Sierra is in a whole different league, as it should be for more than twice the price.

First the build quality on the Sierra is outstanding. I have the piano black finish and it is beautiful. If you tap your knuckles on it, it feels very solid with no resonance. The 170SE cabinet feels very hollow in comparison.

The next big difference is the bass. With the 170SE, you could barely live with them without a subwoofer, IMO. The Sierras are a whole different story. I have no desire to turn on my sub with them for music. A sub would probably help if you wanted to play at very high volumes, but I don't usually go above 95db or so.

Lastly, I always felt the 170SE was a little weak in the soundstage/imaging department. Imaging is a little fuzzy and the soundstage doesn't extend much beyond the width of the speakers. Although, I don't know of any speakers for $350 that are any better. The 170SE is very neutral and that is what I really like about them. I still think they are the best speaker for $350. The Sierra, however, has excellent imaging and soundstage. I was listening to Tool's Jambi from 10,000 days and the electric guitar solo around the 4 min mark sounded like it was going to burst out of my TV. Razor sharp imaging.

I am not an owner, but an interested observer. I've currently got a pile of speakers at home (check my profile) and have always admired Dave's work. I thought it would be good to start a thread without all the rancor as I think lots of folks will be interested in the Sierras and would like to obtain information without the tit vs tat back and forth.

If you ever make it to the Los Angeles area...

Okay, I'll bite:

There are very few, if any, circumstances where we know what the "real thing" sounded like when we listen to a recording.

Another thing: what the heck is a "support thread" when it comes to a loudspeaker?? What kind of support are we talking about?
Okay, I'll bite:

Placement issues, stand recos, amplification recos, toe in, tweeter height, wire recos, etc.

If you ever make it to the Los Angeles area...
I'll be there in June for a visit to my client, USC.

Another thing: what the heck is a "support thread" when it comes to a loudspeaker?? What kind of support are we talking about?

Please help me out. I just bought these speakers and I'm not sure how to connect them to my DVD player. The DVD player has a bunch of connectors on the back panel and all the speakers have are these red and black thumb screws! HELP!

That kind of support? Yeah, 3/4 of the the thread are that kind of support.
He he he.

I'll be there in June for a visit to my client, USC.
Tony...that's great! Hope we can all hook up....eventhough I currently work for UCLA. :)

where can I see a pic of these sierra's ? link?

Here you go:

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?t=2597

Tony...that's great! Hope we can all hook up....eventhough I currently work for UCLA. :)

That's cool. Even though as a Banana Slug I say a pox on both your houses.

Another thing: what the heck is a "support thread" when it comes to a loudspeaker?? What kind of support are we talking about? A lot of folks are looking for "support" regarding making a purchasing decision. That is where speaker a vs speaker b is helpful.

A lot of folks are looking for "support" regarding making a purchasing decision. That is where speaker a vs speaker b is helpful.

True, but in this case very few (2 or 3?) are capable of providing comparisons and Curtis is showing discretion in keeping his keyboard shut.

Hope and speculation in posting with regard to these speakers should be considered hype.

Yeah well, in recent days, I have been accused of hyping and fanboyism by one of our favorite B&M dealers.

Other than what has been said already, I'd rather let the speakers do their own talking, and all these locked down/deleted thread bother me.

I don't want to stray too far off topic, but I have never once considered you a fanboy or shill for Ascend. Ever.

On topic, I will need to place these ~18 inches from the rear wall and 20" from the side walls, will this present a problem?

Thanks Eric.

The Sierra center channel I have is closer than that to the rear wall, and it does not seem to be a problem.

20" to a sidewall seems a bit close for any speaker. I just measured mine....my left speaker is 27" from the side wall.

True, but in this case very few (2 or 3?) are capable of providing comparisons and Curtis is showing discretion in keeping his keyboard shut.

Hope and speculation in posting with regard to these speakers should be considered hype. Well, I guess almost anyone talking about speakers they haven't heard is hype too. Most of this damn thing should probably be shut down then, and not just the speaker forum. Technology tends to lead people to speculate about the next new thing. Oh well, what're you gonna do? I just think it is a shame that we can't get more info here because people are basically afraid of having threads deleted or locked.

Well, I guess almost anyone talking about speakers they haven't heard is hype too. Most of this damn thing should probably be shut down then, and not just the speaker forum. Technology tends to lead people to speculate about the next new thing. Oh well, what're you gonna do? I just think it is a shame that we can't get more info here because people are basically afraid of having threads deleted or locked.

Sorry to go off topic but I just wanted to say I agree with you 100% here.

Fortunately Curtis is not that far away and I'm sure he would be happy to have me swing by sometime to hear the Sierra. Based on what I heard from the 170SE I'm sure the Sierra is fantastic.

ericgl- I'm hoping to have mine this weekend but if I don't get a ship notice today with the holiday weekend they won't get here until next Tuesday at the earliest. I maybe out of town the that following weekend and can try to work something out for you to borrow them then. I'm down south off of 6.

I will have my center channel VERY close to the wall.... hopefully it won't degrade performance too much, probably 4 inches of clearance in the back... better than nothing.

I will have my center channel VERY close to the wall.... hopefully it won't degrade performance too much, probably 4 inches of clearance in the back... better than nothing.

If that's the case, May be you need to have the center channel crossed over at 80 or 100. Dave might be able to give you the best recommendation.

Fortunately Curtis is not that far away and I'm sure he would be happy to have me swing by sometime to hear the Sierra.
Most definitely Mucho. Send me an email.


I have not been able to spend as much time critically listening to the Sierras in the last couple of days......little league, homework, etc.....you know the drill.

When mziegler was over the other night, we noticed the extra seperation in instruments compared to the 340SE, so last night I decided to try out a track that would test this.

When at CES earlier this year, I learn of a track by the Fairfield Four that is a nice test of seperation. Four part harmony that can end up blending on some speakers. We used it a lot in Vegas.

Anyways, with the Sierras, it is very easy to pick out each voice in the harmony.

Also, TV watching (Heroes in particular since is the only show that have watched all the way through since getting the speakers) has been very nice. I am even impressed with my kids' cartoons.

When at CES earlier this year, I learn of a track by the Fairfield Four that is a nice test of seperation. Four part harmony that can end up blending on some speakers. We used it a lot in Vegas.

Anyways, with the Sierras, it is very easy to pick out each voice in the harmony.



It is Fairfield Four's Standing in the Safety Zone track 6 about 1:50 into the song. Actually, there is a lot of four part harmony on that disc that shows which speakers can separate all four voices in harmony or if all the voices blend together but track 6 has the added dimension of a deep bass voice coming in on the top of the 4 part harmony. The TAD room was using this disc too to show off the TAD's abilities. I learned of it a few years ago from a DIY speaker build who played in the symphony.

for anyone who doesnt want to keep their piano black sierra's pm me, i would be interested in purchasing them.

for anyone who doesnt want to keep their piano black sierra's pm me, i would be interested in purchasing them.
might be tough....because for the next 30 days, virtually everyone will be inside their trial period. If they don't like them, they return them for everything less shipping.

I think you would be better off doing the same thing.

for anyone who doesnt want to keep their piano black sierra's pm me, i would be interested in purchasing them.

Does this mean they are sold out and you're offering more than Ascend's sales price?

ericgl- I'm hoping to have mine this weekend but if I don't get a ship notice today with the holiday weekend they won't get here until next Tuesday at the earliest. I maybe out of town the that following weekend and can try to work something out for you to borrow them then. I'm down south off of 6.

Tex-amp that is a very generous offer, but more than I can accept. I am kind of a speaker junkie (although others here are worse) and wouldn't mind buying a pair to try, a least at the introductory price.

Looks like there is some b-stock for piano black....

http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/showthread.php?p=22960#post22960

12% seems like a deal

Being a 340SE owner, is this supposed to be a step up? I mean the size is smaller, once less driver...etc I know I love my Ascends :)

It is definitely a step up.....or two, three, four......

Mind elaborating? I use mine 90% HT, and find that the dual driver design and efficiency of the tweeter and the rest of the speaker gives me mind boggling clear and concise sound. I hate to say this, but bare with me... I thought that size might have counted :) again I'm not bashing, I own this brand, but everyone has upgrade envy :)

I just started listening to the Sierras.

Very impressive. I have posted my impressions after comparing them to the 340s at Curtis's, but the difference is more pronounced in my room, and in a good way. Everything is better defined, the bass is better. Unfortunately I'm off to the Bay Area for five days tomorrow, so I won't have the weekend to listen.

In the next month or so I should have the chance to compare the speaker to many others. Should be interesting.

My family is watching American Idol right now, with the sound very low--they are impressed with the clarity.

So Curtis, do you actually *own* Sierras, and compared them to 340's yourself?

Yup.

But in all honesty, the 340's have spent very little time on the stands since I gotten the Sierras. In fact, the only time is when mziegler was here. I really do not feel the need to compare.

Someone else is coming over tomorrow night for a listen. He may want to compare to the 340's.

I always run my 340SE's "small" XO 80hz with a powered SW. Curtis, maybe you can compare the Sierra's and the 340SE's in this fashion. I am interested in the outcome between the two

Sure thing Gov, but as mziegler posted, the Sierra has an overall "clearer picture". I think the imaging is better as well.

I just started listening to the Sierras.

Very impressive. I have posted my impressions after comparing them to the 340s at Curtis's, but the difference is more pronounced in my room, and in a good way. Everything is better defined, the bass is better. Unfortunately I'm off to the Bay Area for five days tomorrow, so I won't have the weekend to listen.

In the next month or so I should have the chance to compare the speaker to many others. Should be interesting.

My family is watching American Idol right now, with the sound very low--they are impressed with the clarity.

MZiegler, are you crossing over with a sub?

MZiegler, are you crossing over with a sub?
I emailed mziegler a bit last night after he got the speakers. I don't know if he integrated his sub or not. He is gone for the long weekend though...back on Tuesday I think.

Mind elaborating? I use mine 90% HT, and find that the dual driver design and efficiency of the tweeter and the rest of the speaker gives me mind boggling clear and concise sound. I hate to say this, but bare with me... I thought that size might have counted :) again I'm not bashing, I own this brand, but everyone has upgrade envy :)

I use mine 90% for HT also and agree with you that the speakers give mind boggling clear and concise sound. I was watching TV last night and was thinking,..can the Sierras be THAT much better?

I got my 340SEs a year ago. They blew me away so much that I threw away the boxes, thinking that I'd never upgrade again since I don't plan on spending 2k+ on speakers.

Then, the Sierras come along. :rolleyes:

Since I'm not rich, I'm thinking that the difference between the Sierras and 340SEs when using a sub are not worth the price difference to me. If the money wasn't an issue, I'd definitely get them.

If I were able to sell my 340SE L/C/R for $700, I'd consider getting the Sierras.

Can't wait until someone in the Washington D.C. area gets the Sierras so that I can hear them for myself!

If I were 90% HT, I probably would not have upgraded.

While I think it makes a difference, I am more critical of music.

My usage used to be VERY slanted towards HT, Until I got my 170SE mains/340SEC...
My usage of Music/HT went from like 20/80 to about 50/50, maybe even 60/40.


I JUST ordered L/C/R Sierra naturals!!!

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeehhhhhhhhhhhhhawwwwwwwwwwwwwwww !!!

I see my music listening going even higher!!

Funny how good reproduction can change your ideas of entertainment.

Funny how good reproduction can change your ideas of entertainment.

Exactly!!

I still LOVE my Projector/Movies..... I just use my AVR alot more often than I used to!!
:D

I miss playing my drums, but it hurts a bit less, when ya have decent reproduction.

I see that Dave Fabrikant KNOWS how to make it happen, at a reasonable price.

THIS really isn't negotiable IMO, I've experienced it with his 170's firsthand, and I have a hell of alot more experience with realistic sound than most,being a drummer(in bands) for many years.

Am I saying I know more?
No
Am I saying I know what a snare/china REALLY sound like?
You bet I am,and Dave knows as well it seems to me.............

Am I CERTAIN what brand/type drum is being used? NO of course not....

Do I have a clue as to the type of drum head?

A clue? Yeah, exactly, or perfect description?NO
Drum heads have a signature, and I'm now listening to them...... because I can hear them. and thats with the 170's!!

I look forward to my Sierras.

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to ask in, but how do these compare to Paradigm Studio 20's? Same ballpark or significantly better?

Unfortunately, I have never heard the Studio 20s so I couldn't say. Curtis?

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to ask in, but how do these compare to Paradigm Studio 20's? Same ballpark or significantly better?

The Ascend 170SE is competitive with Paradigm's Studio 20.

When are they going to put the Sierras on their web site?

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to ask in, but how do these compare to Paradigm Studio 20's? Same ballpark or significantly better?
Inappropriate thread. This is an Ascend Sierra thread, not a comparison thread.

When are they going to put the Sierras on their web site?

There was a post by Dave Fabrikant on the Ascend forum that due to the unexpected level of Sierra demand that Sierra info would remain only on the forum until they get caught up.

I ended up going with the "B" stock LCR package ... it was only about $260 more than the original pair of "A" stock speakers - and with a pair of 170's in the back, should make for a nice 5.1 system, too.

As luck would have it, they are scheduled to arrive next Friday (6-1), and I will be out of town killing trees at a charity golf outing. :eek:

Craig, I think for surrounds, the 170SE's match up pretty well.

And I am fairly sure you don't kill too many trees on a golfcourse. Enjoy!

I ended up going with the "B" stock LCR package ... it was only about $260 more than the original pair of "A" stock speakers - and with a pair of 170's in the back, should make for a nice 5.1 system, too.

As luck would have it, they are scheduled to arrive next Friday (6-1), and I will be out of town killing trees at a charity golf outing. :eek:

you should get your priorities, in order :D (jk). We all look forward, to your opinion :).

There was a post by Dave Fabrikant on the Ascend forum that due to the unexpected level of Sierra demand that Sierra info would remain only on the forum until they get caught up.

Does it take along time to put something on the website announcing them? Maybe on the main page. Just curious.

Probably just can't keep up on orders. So why advertise something not in stock?

I picked up my piano black Sierra-1 across the front this past Thursday (as well as the Hsu VTF-3MK3 + turbo) in anticipation of playing them this extended weekend w/ my brand new Emotiva Ultra Theater series that was expected to arrive yesterday (5/25) via UPS. Nothing all day only to find out late last night the Emotiva shipment is rescheduled for this coming Tuesday. Very unhappy about this. My good friend/neighbor is a VP at UPS and he's going to hear it from me although he can't do anything about it. GRRRRR :mad:

Any new owners of Sierra run them w/ Emotiva components? I'd love to hear your thoughts.

I will still hook them up w/ my very old Harman Kardon AVR25. It should still give me a good feel for the speakers and the PS.

Does it take along time to put something on the website announcing them? Maybe on the main page. Just curious.

My impression was they don't want to promote the Sierras any more than what is on the Ascend forum as they can't keep up with the present demand.

My impression was they don't want to promote the Sierras any more than what is on the Ascend forum as they can't keep up with the present demand.

and since this thread is promoting them enough already, guess they don't need to update the website.

Probably just can't keep up on orders. So why advertise something not in stock?

you tell me? Companies run out of stock, does'nt mean they stop advertising it.

you tell me? Companies run out of stock, does'nt mean they stop advertising it.
That what I think. They don't want to advertise it cuz they can't keep up with demand? Dunno

IronMike and D. They are going to thank you for advertising here :-)

Is there a reason you want Ascend to put the Sierras up on the site? Or a reason you don't want them to?

Is there a reason you want Ascend to put the Sierras up on the site? Or a reason you don't want them to?

yes

When are they going to put the Sierras on their web site?

Should be info on the site by Tuesday. Only reason that they are not on the site yet is that we're having some custom programming done to our shopping cart software to accommodate the new line.

The programming was actually completed on time but we just haven't had the time to check it yet :o

Have a great holiday weekend!

Should be info on the site by Tuesday. Only reason that they are not on the site yet is that were having some custom programming done to our shopping cart software to accommodate the new line.

The programming was actually completed on time but we just haven't had the time to check it yet :o

Have a great holiday weekend!
Didn't have time? , you had time to make the speakers but no time to put them on the site? Kind of strange coming from an ID company. Just wondering, not flaming.

Just wondering, not flaming.

Kinda seems like flaming to me. What's the problem? For those in the know, i.e, anyone on this forum or the Ascend forum pretty much, you're more than welcome to call and order these. They've posted pictures, specs, other info, etc. on the Ascend forum. Otherwise, wait a few days and they'll be on the site.

These were announced pretty much simultaneously with availability. Certain other ID companies don't subscribe to this type of release, and have many delays on the release after revealing the product. I think Ascend has handled this fine. Just imho.

Didn't have time? , you had time to make the speakers but no time to put them on the site? Kind of strange coming from an ID company. Just wondering, not flaming.

High DrPainMD,

Our priorites are exactly that, making loudspeakers...

For what other reason could there be other than a lack of time? We are a small company, we don't have a dedicated IT department, we sub-contract nearly all of our web-work and I am the one who needs to test the new features as I was the one who hired the programmer...

To be honest, it is more important for me to spend my time right now catching up on the hundreds of emails sitting in my inbox... (as I am doing right now)

I have been working 18-20 hour days this week, there is really only so much I can do -- believe me, I wish I could get more done in a day, but I am only human :o

There is nothing to speculate about. My priorities are just different than what you are used to seeing.

Are we sold out on Sierra's? No ---
Are we backordered? Yes ---

We are low on tweeters and to compensate, I had SEAS pull boxes from an ocean shipment to airship them to us direct from Norway...

Hope this explains things...

Didn't have time? , you had time to make the speakers but no time to put them on the site? Kind of strange coming from an ID company. Just wondering, not flaming.

You need a drink. Put down the mouse, and pick up a shaker ... :D

You need a drink. Put down the mouse, and pick up a shaker ... :D
Good advise :)
So..... how good are these Sierra's?
Or is it too early.........
On a wish list...........I'd really like to see Ascend put out a wall-mountable, like the NHT L5 and such, for those of us looking for surround speaker solutions.

dc

Good advise :)
So..... how good are these Sierra's?
Or is it too early.........
On a wish list...........I'd really like to see Ascend put out a wall-mountable, like the NHT L5 and such, for those of us looking for surround speaker solutions.

dc
Let me humbly chime in as I am not an audiophile in the least bit nor can I give you much of a comparison as I have not heard other Ascend speakers.

Just picked up the Sierra-1's two days ago. I am sitting listening to the music as I write. I have Andrea Bocelli on right now to get a feel for how they handle his vocals as well as the instrumentals. I have the volume level up fairly high and it doesn't "feel" like it's too loud. Even my wife who is not the most understanding when it comes to loud music walks by doing her solo ballroom dancing in a playful way.

Much of what typically is said about the Ascends seem true to me with these Sierra's. Very, very neutral, while the details seem to reflect the source and the quality of the recording. I'm also impressed with the amount of bass these little speakers are putting out. I bought a Hsu VTF-3MK3 for the HT but think I will be listening to music in 2 channel without the sub.

Back to Bocelli. The piano, the orchestra, the voice... The speakers are brilliantly doing Andrea justice. I'll do the hard stuff later and will report back.

You need a drink. Put down the mouse, and pick up a shaker ... :D

uhm, promoting drinking is not my agenda, but thanks for the suggestion

High DrPainMD,

Our priorites are exactly that, making loudspeakers...

For what other reason could there be other than a lack of time? We are a small company, we don't have a dedicated IT department, we sub-contract nearly all of our web-work and I am the one who needs to test the new features as I was the one who hired the programmer...

To be honest, it is more important for me to spend my time right now catching up on the hundreds of emails sitting in my inbox... (as I am doing right now)

I have been working 18-20 hour days this week, there is really only so much I can do -- believe me, I wish I could get more done in a day, but I am only human :o

There is nothing to speculate about. My priorities are just different than what you are used to seeing.

Are we sold out on Sierra's? No ---
Are we backordered? Yes ---

We are low on tweeters and to compensate, I had SEAS pull boxes from an ocean shipment to airship them to us direct from Norway...

Hope this explains things...

Now this I understand, makes it all so clear now.

Kinda seems like flaming to me. What's the problem? For those in the know, i.e, anyone on this forum or the Ascend forum pretty much, you're more than welcome to call and order these. They've posted pictures, specs, other info, etc. on the Ascend forum. Otherwise, wait a few days and they'll be on the site.

These were announced pretty much simultaneously with availability. Certain other ID companies don't subscribe to this type of release, and have many delays on the release after revealing the product. I think Ascend has handled this fine. Just imho.

Like I said I'm not flamin', just asking questions. Sorry for my ignorance.

Wow, Pull Tweeters off the Ocean Shipment, and Airmail them from Norway?

That cost a pretty penny for you, I am sure, but I feel it was the right thing to do, instead of backordering.

WTG Dave, alot of folks are eagerly awaiting this new line, and at least you are trying your best, to make the wait reasonable.

Russdawg, I'm not flaming. Can't someone just ask questions? Anyways I found my answers.

Russdawg, I'm not flaming. Can't someone just ask questions? Anyways I found my answers.

After reading your other posts I can see that. I yanked my post.

I don't know if this is the appropriate thread to ask in, but how do these compare to Paradigm Studio 20's? Same ballpark or significantly better?
Inappropriate thread. This is an Ascend Sierra thread, not a comparison thread.
I don't think that this is an inappropirate question...and as the starter of the thread who doesn't even own or immediately plan to buy the Sierras, I'm a little surprised that you would give this poster sh*t for a pretty reasonable question. They're not antagonizingly looking to compare and contrast ID brands nor are they flaming for one brand or another. They're simply looking for construcive comparison between two fairly well-regarded brands of speakers. I don't see the harm in that question being raised here (as it IS a Sierra thread), and I can only assume that many other posters (myself included) have either owned or auditioned the speaker in question (Paradigm Studio 20) and might have some constructive feedback to offer. I'm not quite sure why you started this thread, as somebody who doesn't even plan to buy the Sierra speaker, but I'm further confused as to why you feel the need to respond to a really good question in such a conftontational and dismissive way. I've been trying to build a 2-channel system in our home office with a pair of Studio 20's for a few years now, and when I finally found the right pair at the right price, UPS lost one of the speakers in the mail. I sought for a replacement, to no avail, for about 7 months before finally being able to instead sell the single Studio 20 that I did receive. I've been in love with the Studio 20 for years now, but instead decided to put $800 towards the Sierra with the hopes that it will be an even superior bookshelf. I can't comment on the performance in comparison to the Studio 20 because I haven't had the priviledge of owning both at the same time, much less a complete pair of Studio 20's. However, I certainly think that the comparison and opinion is beyond worthwhile and that prospective owners that are contemplating the Sierra speakers should be able to ask how they possibly stack up against other manufacturers' offerings...not that you would know. This is obviously not to say that I want this to turn into another infamous AVS "A-Speaker vs. B-Speaker" thread, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a little constructive conversation.

J.

You need a drink. Put down the mouse, and pick up a shaker ... :D

Yes indeed...seems like he needs to self medicate

I don't think that this is an inappropirate question...and as the starter of the thread who doesn't even own or immediately plan to buy the Sierras, I'm a little surprised that you would give this poster sh*t for a pretty reasonable question. They're not antagonizingly looking to compare and contrast ID brands nor are they flaming for one brand or another. They're simply looking for construcive comparison between two fairly well-regarded brands of speakers. I don't see the harm in that question being raised here (as it IS a Sierra thread), and I can only assume that many other posters (myself included) have either owned or auditioned the speaker in question (Paradigm Studio 20) and might have some constructive feedback to offer. I'm not quite sure why you started this thread, as somebody who doesn't even plan to buy the Sierra speaker, but I'm further confused as to why you feel the need to respond to a really good question in such a conftontational and dismissive way. I've been trying to build a 2-channel system in our home office with a pair of Studio 20's for a few years now, and when I finally found the right pair at the right price, UPS lost one of the speakers in the mail. I sought for a replacement, to no avail, for about 7 months before finally being able to instead sell the single Studio 20 that I did receive. I've been in love with the Studio 20 for years now, but instead decided to put $800 towards the Sierra with the hopes that it will be an even superior bookshelf. I can't comment on the performance in comparison to the Studio 20 because I haven't had the priviledge of owning both at the same time, much less a complete pair of Studio 20's. However, I certainly think that the comparison and opinion is beyond worthwhile and that prospective owners that are contemplating the Sierra speakers should be able to ask how they possibly stack up against other manufacturers' offerings...not that you would know. This is obviously not to say that I want this to turn into another infamous AVS "A-Speaker vs. B-Speaker" thread, but I don't think there's anything wrong with a little constructive conversation.

J.Constructive conversation when it comes to speaker comparisons typically becomes destructive conversation which then leads to thread closings. If the poster wants a comparison, he can start a comparison thread that can get closed. If you look at any of the so called "Official" threads, they only become contentious when comparisons begin.

In the context of this thread, I do think it is inappropriate. And given the fact we're "discussing" it here, kind of proves my point.

As to why I started this thread: well, there were several Sierra threads that were started and closed or deleted. I am interested in Dave F's work and am interested in reading people's opinions of the sound. I thought that it would be good to get this all under one roof so to speak as an official thread.

TG

I admire your intent. But how do you expect anyone to describe a speaker to someone who has not heard it without comparing it to one they both might have heard? Stereophile (no disrespect intended Kal) catch phrases aside.

I am sorry that the threads are getting closed, but that is more a consequence of how the mods are controlling us unwashed masses with nuclear deterrence that individual consequences. I believe the question is appropriate to the thread.

TG

I admire your intent. But how do you expect anyone to describe a speaker to someone who has not heard it without comparing it to one they both might have heard?
Well, one way is to describe how a speaker reproduces a violin, or a piano or Jack Bauer's voice, or Stevie Ray Vaughn's guitar. With all the real sounds in life (that we're all familar with) I don't really think it's necessary to compare a speaker to another speaker. It's like comparing a copy to a copy: let's start comparing it to the original. If one doesn't have an appreciation for the real thing, then aren't we just chasing our (cat) tails?

TG

I admire your intent. But how do you expect anyone to describe a speaker to someone who has not heard it without comparing it to one they both might have heard? Stereophile (no disrespect intended Kal) catch phrases aside.

I am sorry that the threads are getting closed, but that is more a consequence of how the mods are controlling us unwashed masses with nuclear deterrence that individual consequences. I believe the question is appropriate to the thread.

Well said, Glenn!

Describing a speaker without some comparison or benchmark is like trying to describe the feeling of water to someone who has never experienced it...or a lovely sunset to someone who has never had vision. Primarily these threads either become contentious because of fanboy and/or disrespectful attitudes and demonstrations of ego and testosterone levels, or they become mutual audio...er, stroking...by a group that merely want to justify their purchases or promote their affiliations.

It gets kind of boring, either way.

Alas,

I do not know the sound of Jack Bauers voice. Only the reproductions I have heard. Similarly for the overwhelming majority of vocal artists and other music I know and love. Each through the filter of some other speaker, evn the live performances..

You must live a very lucky life if the same is not true for you as well. But, no more debate here on this matter from me. As it does take away form the intent of the thread.

Best

-glenn

Well, one way is to describe how a speaker reproduces a violin, or a piano or Jack Bauer's voice, or Stevie Ray Vaughn's guitar. With all the real sounds in life (that we're all familar with) I don't really think it's necessary to compare a speaker to another speaker. It's like comparing a copy to a copy: let's start comparing it to the original. If one doesn't have an appreciation for the real thing, then aren't we just chasing our (cat) tails?

How can you compare it to the original when the band/vocalist is not in your room? Has SRV ever played in your listening room? I don't intend to be contentious about this, but unless you're listening to really flat measuring, distortion-free and coloration-free speakers (quality studio monitors, which sound pretty boring), you're not getting anything near "real sounds" and you probably couldn't measure it if you did. Besides that, the front end equipment colors your speaker output to some extent. The recording engineer's tastes and biases color your speaker output. The music's source (medium) colors your speaker output. Etc. It really is not as simple as saying, "Yeah, that sounds like SRV's guitar in my living room."

My apology for the off-topic rant. I'll quietly crawl off now. :(

Alas,

I do not know the sound of Jack Bauers voice. Only the reproductions I have heard. Similarly for the overwhelming majority of vocal artists and other music I know and love. Each through the filter of some other speaker, evn the live performances..

You must live a very lucky life if the same is not true for you as well. But, no more debate here on this matter from me. As it does take away form the intent of the thread.

Best

-glennWell, you don't need to be lucky to go hear live musicians play acoustic instruments in a hall. You just need to go out and look for them. I am lucky in that I live near a large city (Boston) that has many venues to hear orchestras, chamber groups, instrumental groups, etc. The problem I have with speaker comparisons is that there is no reference: it's what I like. And if that's the case, then the comparisons are totally useless as what I like, you may not.

It's what causes the shitters in a lot of comparisons. Some guy likes one speaker because it recesses the highs, says it's got better bass because the speaker has a hump at 120hz, and so that speaker with the messed up FR will be 'better' than the accurate speaker... So in one sens, comparisons are good to tell that one speaker is more accurate, more realistic than another, but when somebody can't discern accurate transducer and then asserts that one is better because "it's more musical" (often without stating evidently his personal speaker criteria), it renders any comparison totally useless...

I think it's somewhat sad that people see speakers as a musical instrument. They're not. All it should do is reproduce the source material as accurately as possible. When people start to insinuate that it must serve other functions, then all bets are off and you can end up with basically any result. Whatever 'modification' to make music more musical should be done BEFORE playback, in the recording/mixing/engineering stages. IMHO. Not by the listener using static loudspeakers.

I think comparisons to other speakers can be very informative. After all, Curtis and others have compared the Sierras to other Ascend speakers, and I have enjoyed reading those posts.

However, the problems start when somebody prefers one brand over another, and people start defending their brand, and pretty soon there are personal attacks.

While I would love to read posts comparing the Sierras with speakers from other manufacturers, I would hate to see this thread be closed. Starting comparison threads just seems safer.

Of course, people may be subscribed to this thread and they won't be subscribed to the new thread, so I see no harm in somebody starting a new comparison thread and then posting a link in this thread. I will certainly follow the link and read the comparison thread.

-Dave

A more appropriate comparison question would have been asking whether the Sierras are in the same league as the Paradigm Studio 20, or whether it would be more in the league of a Paradigm Studio 100, or one of the Paradigms lesser than the 20. In other words, "what Paradigm speaker is the Sierra closest to"?

For example, the Ascend 340SE is considered by many to be in the same league as the Axiom M60. And most people wouldn't say the HTM-200 is in the same league as the Axiom M22 (even though some people would have a personal preference for the HTM); they'd put the Ascend 170SE as being the one more on par with the M22.

My sincere hope is that it is better than any Paradigm to my ears and with my subs.

For example, the Ascend 340SE is considered by many to be in the same league as the Axiom M60. And most people wouldn't say the HTM-200 is in the same league as the Axiom M22 (even though some people would have a personal preference for the HTM); they'd put the Ascend 170SE as being the one more on par with the M22.
Most comparisons I have read put the older classic 170 at least on par or a bit better than the M22.

I, for one, will say the classic 170 compared very well with the Studio 20 v.2 and v.3, but lost out in bass extension. A very worthwhile comparison.

In the very least, I think the Sierra is comparable to any bookshelf type speaker I have heard....so I suggest a listen.

Mine just arrived!! Put on the satellite Trance/trip-hop station and cranked it to 11 to get them opened up. The bass out of the Sierras is pretty impressive. Trying, unsuccessfully, to wiggle out of taking the kids to the pool so I can play with the Sierras. I see a cloud, I better check weather radar!

I agree, I've owned both (at the same time), the 170SE is a far better speaker, especially the bass extension and midbass performance, making it superior stand-alone or crossing over with a subwoofer.

The dispersion of the 170SEs are also miles ahead of the M22s, which are very thin off-axis.

I am very interested in peoples thoughts, on the new Sierra 1 from Ascend! For me to better gauge a product I can't audition, would be getting some unbiased opinions, as well! (FYI) I have read that Audioholics, will be doing a very intensive bookshelf shootout this upcoming month and the Sierra 1 might be involved? :D

unbiased opinions
All of us have our biases......

I got my front stage this morning and had to wait for 8 hours before I could set them up. IT was killing me. Had a chance to listen to a few tunes. I had a doubt that these speakers could be inefficient, but they got pretty loud at -20 on my HK247. The volume at that level was comparable to 340s. (I'm going by memory. I have not ABed them yet.

I played "Maria maria" from supernatural and the next song "Migra". My sub was disconnected from the power outlet and the speakers were set to large. While it was playing, I had to doublecheck whether I had turned my sub back on by accident. The bass was really good and fast. I also have Ref1s in the other room and I had always been impressed by the Ref1's bass output for it's size. I think Sierra will win that battle. It's tough not being able to AB the speakers right away because of time restrictions. Then I played a few songs from Michael Buble's self titled album. It has a lot of acoustic bass on it. Again, the speed was awesome. I'm going to play some percussion music next (Afro-Cuban fantasy by Poncho Sanchez). Also felt that the soundstage extended a little wider than 340s and imaging was better too.
more later...
There's a ton of music I want to play on these speakers, but have to be a few minutes a day for now..

So are there any people using Sierras for movies in a multichannel system here?

I got my front stage this morning and had to wait for 8 hours before I could set them up. IT was killing me. Had a chance to listen to a few tunes. I had a doubt that these speakers could be inefficient, but they got pretty loud at -20 on my HK247. The volume at that level was comparable to 340s. (I'm going by memory. I have not ABed them yet.

I played "Maria maria" from supernatural and the next song "Migra". My sub was disconnected from the power outlet and the speakers were set to large. While it was playing, I had to doublecheck whether I had turned my sub back on by accident. The bass was really good and fast. I also have Ref1s in the other room and I had always been impressed by the Ref1's bass output for it's size. I think Sierra will win that battle. It's tough not being able to AB the speakers right away because of time restrictions. Then I played a few songs from Michael Buble's self titled album. It has a lot of acoustic bass on it. Again, the speed was awesome. I'm going to play some percussion music next (Afro-Cuban fantasy by Poncho Sanchez). Also felt that the soundstage extended a little wider than 340s and imaging was better too.
more later...
There's a ton of music I want to play on these speakers, but have to be a few minutes a day for now..

Do you prefer your Ref 1s to 340SEs for both movies and music?

So are there any people using Sierras for movies in a multichannel system here?
I am.

I plan to put mine in a 2-channel (no sub) setup in our office.

J.

Just got mine this morning. I will have to wait another week to hook them up since I'm moving Friday. The packing material looks top notch! I am definitely going to have to open these sometime today to check out the bamboo cabinets.

I've got 3 Sierras across the front in my HT and another pair for my 2 channel rig. Haven't listened to/watched a movie yet but for the Jewel concert I watched yesterday the vocals were mesmerizing.

Do you prefer your Ref 1s to 340SEs for both movies and music?

I didn't have both in my house at the same time, but I liked the Ref 1 a bit better than the 340SE primarly b/c of bass. That lil 5.25" on the Ref 1 was great. Both were great all around performers, but I woulda picked the Ref 1 over the 340 b/c of the bass. Its interesting to hear that the Sierras have even better bass than the Ref 1.

I didn't have both in my house at the same time, but I liked the Ref 1 a bit better than the 340SE primarly b/c of bass. That lil 5.25" on the Ref 1 was great. Both were great all around performers, but I woulda picked the Ref 1 over the 340 b/c of the bass. Its interesting to hear that the Sierras have even better bass than the Ref 1.
Yes...I agree the Ref 1 has better bass than the 340 classics when I compared the two, eventhough the 340SE has a bit better bass than the classic(I did like the mids better), I still think the Ref 1 went deeper. The Sierra is definitely a whole different ballgame...at least as deep, but punchier/more articulate.

Come you guys that have received the Sierra-1s start telling us what they sound like!

I don't think anyone wants this thread shut down. Try the Ascend Forum (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2) to see what the folks who have them are saying.

I don't think anyone wants this thread shut down. Try the Ascend Forum (http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2) to see what the folks who have them are saying.

I think it's ludicrous that it has come to that.

Frankly, I'm not sure what the point of any of this is then. So, a thread about speakers can't actually talk about... the speakers. How bloody absurd.

I know that I have pretty quiet about the Sierra around here because I don't want it viewed as hype. In my almost two weeks with them, I think they are exceptional.

Quite frankly, I want to compare it to some upper echelon bookshelves to see where it falls in line.

One gentleman that visited my place this past Sunday with his wife posted here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=272386&postcount=9

I'd like to think the initial clamp-down was do the fact no one had actually heard them yet fans and foes were offering opinions.

I'd like to think the initial clamp-down was do the fact no one had actually heard them yet fans and foes were offering opinions.True, and I think alot of that has to do with the designer's previous success, BUT, how many threads are there on AVS in anticipation of new electronics that have not been heard. Quite a few by my count.

Does anyone have the specs of these mythical loudspeakers? Such as driver complement? crossover frequency? f3 tuning? size? Power handling? Efficiency? Price? I see that the Ascend web site does not list them or offer any specs (Yea I read the Ascend guys comments).

I assume that one of you owners has a manual that lists all the information. Don't bother posting a link to the Ascend forum.

I only called them mythical because of the lack of concrete information on them. :rolleyes:

Don't bother posting a link to the Ascend forum.

Well...that is where all the info is...posted by David Fabrikant, the head dude at Ascend, so it is pretty concrete.

Read all the stickies here:
http://forum.ascendacoustics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2

Does anyone have the specs of these mythical loudspeakers? Such as driver complement? crossover frequency? f3 tuning? size? Power handling? Efficiency? Price? I see that the Ascend web site does not list them or offer any specs (Yea I read the Ascend guys comments).

I assume that one of you owners has a manual that lists all the information. Don't bother posting a link to the Ascend forum.

I only called them mythical because of the lack of concrete information on them. :rolleyes:

Do you really want to know, or are you just being confrontational?

FWIW (and IMO) reading specs to determine how a speaker sounds is a little like reading nutritional content to determine how a food tastes.

Does anyone have the specs of these mythical loudspeakers? Such as driver complement? crossover frequency? f3 tuning? size? Power handling? Efficiency? Price? I see that the Ascend web site does not list them or offer any specs (Yea I read the Ascend guys comments).

I assume that one of you owners has a manual that lists all the information. Don't bother posting a link to the Ascend forum.

I only called them mythical because of the lack of concrete information on them. :rolleyes:

Well they certainly AREN'T mythical, but I do understand a bit of frustration in regards to specs and stuff, which Dave F has TRIED to convey as best as possible (there are specs available, but they haven't been listed yet on the site).

I personally prefer the method being used, pump out as many as ya can, to try and catch up, instead of wasting time putting them on the site(Dave has to check all that PERSONALLY BEFORE he allows it to be posted on the site)......they are obviously selling VERY well, so well AAMOF, that they have no time to do it yet....

Small company, big orders on an introductory product= something has to give........ I'd rather it be the PR myself......

Funny thing is.... folks don't have concrete evidence, yet they are flying off the shelves faster than they can build them..... tells me that folks know that Dave has quality as his #1 priority.

Keep building them Dave, when you guys have time, update the site.

Does anyone have the specs of these mythical loudspeakers? Such as driver complement? crossover frequency? f3 tuning? size? Power handling? Efficiency? Price? I see that the Ascend web site does not list them or offer any specs (Yea I read the Ascend guys comments). I assume that one of you owners has a manual that lists all the information. Don't bother posting a link to the Ascend forum. I only called them mythical because of the lack of concrete information on them. :rolleyes:

My apologies in advance... All of the information you are looking for is posted by me in our forum. I had *thought* the site updates were ready but I needed to make a few corrections. Provided all looks good, the site should be updated by tomorrow morning.

I have a family member who has just had major surgery (yesterday) so I am a bit behind in everything right now. Thankfully, that seems to have gone well -- no excuses though, getting the Sierra-1 on our site is # 1 priority right now...

If you are interested in detailed info on the speakers, please feel free to send me a PM or give us a call directly, I would be more than happy to answer your questions.

I was the second person to own a set of Sierras and I've posted my thoughts on them on the Ascend forum. But for those who wish to read some impressions here I would say that I am completely happy with these speakers. I work at a retail audio/video store that sells speakers anywhere from $200 - $10,000 a pair, and I would say that even with a 50% discount, there is nothing I would get over these Sierras. Some of the brands we carry are Monitor Audio, Vienna Acoustics, and Martin Logan.

They really take everything I liked about the 340SE (detailed, neutral sound) and take it a step further. The Sierras have extended detailed highs but are completely and totally smooth. If you look at the spectral decay measurements that Dave posted, you can see how clean the treble is. The layered bamboo cabinet provides as solid and free of resonance as any speaker I've seen at twice the price.

The bass extension is also very impressive, somewhere between 35-38hz in my room. It is very punchy and not boomy at all. You can easily listen to these with out a sub for music, although I am now that I have a JL Fathom F112.

The imaging and soundstage are also excellent. Keep in mind they are bookshelf speakers and probably have some limitations. They are a little bit less efficient than previous Ascend speakers. But that was necessary to give them the deeper bass. I have taken them up to -10dB on my Denon 2805 and heard no distortion.

I know that I have pretty quiet about the Sierra around here because I don't want it viewed as hype. In my almost two weeks with them, I think they are exceptional.

Quite frankly, I want to compare it to some upper echelon bookshelves to see where it falls in line.

One gentleman that visited my place this past Sunday with his wife posted here:
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=272386&postcount=9


What puzzles me is that how can it be hype if you have the opportunity to buy and return in 30 days if you don't like them. I would think someone with average intelligence would research a product first whether professional reviews, individual opinions on various forums, trade shows, magazines etc etc before they pull the trigger.

TYVM XCJAGO.. who would've thought...... a guy that has access to very well respected speakers,at a discount.......... buys the Sierra, and would have nothing else.

EMBARRASSING

Edit: Spelling

xcjago: I think you tried to sell me speakers once--I know where you work.

And yes, I have Ascends.

I never thought the $1,200 Vienna Acoustic speakers sounded as good as the 340s. You guys do not carry anythings, as far as I can tell, that competes at all with the Sierras.

I was the second person to own a set of Sierras and I've posted my thoughts on them on the Ascend forum. But for those who wish to read some impressions here I would say that I am completely happy with these speakers. I work at a retail audio/video store that sells speakers anywhere from $200 - $10,000 a pair, and I would say that even with a 50% discount, there is nothing I would get over these Sierras. Some of the brands we carry are Monitor Audio, Vienna Acoustics, and Martin Logan.

They really take everything I liked about the 340SE (detailed, neutral sound) and take it a step further. The Sierras have extended detailed highs but are completely and totally smooth. If you look at the spectral decay measurements that Dave posted, you can see how clean the treble is. The layered bamboo cabinet provides as solid and free of resonance as any speaker I've seen at twice the price.

The bass extension is also very impressive, somewhere between 35-38hz in my room. It is very punchy and not boomy at all. You can easily listen to these with out a sub for music, although I am now that I have a JL Fathom F112.

The imaging and soundstage are also excellent. Keep in mind they are bookshelf speakers and probably have some limitations. They are a little bit less efficient than previous Ascend speakers. But that was necessary to give them the deeper bass. I have taken them up to -10dB on my Denon 2805 and heard no distortion.

OK I drank enough of the kool-aid, I'm in. As soon as I get home from this work trip I'm on Dave's getting a phone call.

OK I drank enough of the kool-aid, I'm in. As soon as I get home from this work trip I'm on Dave's getting a phone call.
LOL!

Seriously Russ...you can just listen to mine. mziegler and xcjago are also in the area.

question for all you that own these speakers. i am fixing to move in my new home and i will have a dedicated room which is 14x26 9' foot ceiling i want to do 7.1 but to start with it will be 5.1 so now the question will these speakers have any problem playing at reference level in this size room i am used to m&k speakers my last set was the 150's but had tosell them a few years ago now i find out they are no longer in bussiness i listen to music but really buying for home theater the sub will be svs pb12 2 plus thanks for the help also open for sugestions

I'd love to hear Russ' thoughts vs. his Sigs.

I'd love to hear Russ' thoughts vs. his Sigs.

I still got Studio 20's which these will be replacing in my office. So I will be able to give a direct comparison to those as well as the sig's.

I always liked Ascend very much but thought they were butt-ugly, that's why I didn't even keep the 340/170's I demoed way back.

The Sierra's address this issue nicely and the piano black was exactly what I have been looking for in the looks dept so these should work really well.

Just noticed that the Sierras are now fully posted on Acend's website for ordering online.

SIERRA-1 SPECIFICATIONS...

Specifications


Typical In-Room Frequency Response 39Hz - 22kHz ± 3dB
In-Room Sensitivity 87dB @ 1 watt / 1 meter
Frequency Response (Anechoic) 44Hz - 22kHz ± 3dB
Sensitivity (Anechoic) 86.5dB @ 1 watt / 1 meter
Average Impedance 8 ohms
Minimum Recommended Power 45 watts
Maximum Continuous Power* 200 watts
Maximum Short Term Peak Power* 400 watts

Cabinet Exclusive V-LAM™ construction featuring vertically laminated bamboo. Bass reflex via flared rear port tube

Dimensions H x W x D** 14.25" x 7.5" x 10.5"
Weight (each) 20 lbs each
Shipping Weight (pair) 43 lbs per pair

Tweeter (1) 26mm high-definition soft dome tweeter w/integrated elastomer wave guide, wide surround, low-viscosity magnetic fluid cooling, pole-piece damping chamber. Fully manufactured by SEAS of Norway

Woofer (1) proprietary 5.25” long throw mineral-filled polypropylene cone, non-resonant cast aluminum frame, copper shorting rings, low-inductance motor assembly, vented pole-piece and vented spider.

Connectors (2) gold plated all metal 5 way binding posts.
Inserts (1) ¼” x 20 inserts for mounting to stands

Warranty 7 year parts and labor

*Unclipped peaks **Grille Off


Very impressive specifications especially -3db @ 39hz in a typical room for a 5" woofer. :rolleyes: The cabinet is large for a 5" woofer, but it appears thats where the deep bass comes from. ;)

The bamboo finish kinda grows on you. :)

I still got Studio 20's which these will be replacing in my office. So I will be able to give a direct comparison to those as well as the sig's.
I'll be curious to hear what your thoughts are.

J.

Here are the dedicated Sierra pages:

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1/srm1.html

http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM1C/srm1c.html

question for all you that own these speakers. i am fixing to move in my new home and i will have a dedicated room which is 14x26 9' foot ceiling i want to do 7.1 but to start with it will be 5.1 so now the question will these speakers have any problem playing at reference level in this size room i am used to m&k speakers my last set was the 150's but had tosell them a few years ago now i find out they are no longer in bussiness i listen to music but really buying for home theater the sub will be svs pb12 2 plus thanks for the help also open for sugestions
I don't think you will have a problem, but give Ascend a call. DavidF is very familiar with the M&K products, in fact, I think he worked on the 150. He will give you straight answers.

I drank from the happy pitcher and gave my CC number. Now awaiting 3 B-stock Sierra-1s to come available.

I drank from the happy pitcher and gave my CC number. Now awaiting 3 B-stock Sierra-1s to come available.
So there is not any b-stock now?

So there is not any b-stock now?I think they are waiting on tweeters.

So there is not any b-stock now?

Sold out pretty quickly, but James thought a couple of weeks, certainly by the end of the month.

Sold out pretty quickly, but James thought a couple of weeks, certainly by the end of the month.

I couldn't wait.... I ordered!!

Thats OK, I'll love them, and forget that savings before ya know it!!

I think they are waiting on tweeters.

He said A-stock wouldn't be a problem.

eric...interested in what you think compared to your Classic Threes.

Me too. I will also be compairing them to my home built Seas Odins and 12 year old Platinum Audio Solos.

I wish Craigsub would reconsider a blind comparison with the ACI Sapphires.

I wish Craigsub would reconsider a blind comparison with the ACI Sapphires.
I am sure he will end up comparing them in one way or another, and posting.

Judging by other ACI's I have heard....it would be a different style of sound. mziegler and I are trying to find a pair of Sapphire XL's out here to compare, but owners seem to be enjoying them rather than on the boards.

Nice to see a new product come along from David. I don't like playing the upgrade game (i.e. the S.E's) which I'm sure are a wonderful speaker - but is it really worth the trouble of selling classics (and possibly shipping them) just so you can enjoy a marginal (?) improvement in bass (which when using a subwoofer wouldn't be noticable anyway since I cut off my bass at 80 hz to begin with).

But now, these look good. You guys that are waiting for B-Stock - I'm waiting for December... that when it's forcast that my cancuk $ will be back to par with the almight greenback - and I'll order A-stock and be laughing all the way. I just hope David comes out with a dual woofer design on these (like he did when he took the 170's to 340's).

Besides, I have a deck to build, a yard to landscape, and a shed to build (love new homes - that's why you guys haven't seen too many posts from me in the past couple of years - but I've been checking in).

One thing I will say for the curosity seekers and ID doubters out there - I've had my classics for 2 1/2 years now and I still love 'em. For the money I still have not heard a better speaker (there are much better out there - I'm not saying that - but no where near that price). If there is one company I'd buy from (and I have major brokerage fee's to pay that ARE not refundable - when I buy a U.S. speaker- I pretty much have to keep it) sound unheard - it's Ascend. David really does give you value for your $.

Thanks for all the hard work David - I hope your family member recovers 100% and I'll be calling you once my $ is on par with yours :)

And let's get a second woofer in there if possible - call it the Sierra 2 - I'll be more than happy to own the first one ;)

Hey Kpt! Long time no see.

The differences between the 340 and the Sierra are not marginal, especially bass performance....truly a different league (IMO) all together overall.

Is it worth it? Over the classics? Most definitely. Over the SE's, I think so too. But in reality, it really depends on what you can sell the classics/SE's for, and what you are comfortable with.

Hey Kpt! Long time no see.

The differences between the 340 and the Sierra are not marginal, especially bass performance....truly a different league (IMO) all together overall.

Is it worth it? Over the classics? Most definitely. Over the SE's, I think so too. But in reality, it really depends on what you can sell the classics/SE's for, and what you are comfortable with.

I think that the poster was questioning how much better the Sierras would be if one were using a good sub, crossed at 80 hz, with both the Sierras and the 340's. (No one seems to be disputing that the Sierras have more base than the 340's.)

I think that the poster was questioning how much better the Sierras would be if one were using a good sub, crossed at 80 hz, with both the Sierras and the 340's. (No one seems to be disputing that the Sierras have more base than the 340's.)
Understood...and I am saying it is more than just bass. Not easy to quantify how much better a speaker is over another.

Among other things the Sierras are cleaner and more resolving/revealing.

Kpt_Krunch: The cdn $ is already very high at .94$ for 1$US, and might as well grab the Sierras at their introductory price & if you can B-stock... It'll make a much bigger difference than exchange rate, plus Ascend's sales/b-stocks seem to be extremely rare compared to other ID companies.

About brokerage fees, there's none if you get them shipped by USPS. Well 5 bucks... Almost nothing :) Me I just couldn't resist... Like you, Ascend would be the only company I'd be ready to buy unheard, can't wait for mine to get here!

Understood...and I am saying it is more than just bass. Not easy to quantify how much better a speaker is over another.

Among other things the Sierras are cleaner and more resolving/revealing.

Thanks, CS. Yes, from what I have been hearing, the Sierras are even MORE clear, clean, and revealing than the 340's--which is saying a lot!

I read KptKrunch's comment as between the Classics and the SEs not the Sierra as he intend to buy them.

I read KptKrunch's comment as between the Classics and the SEs not the Sierra as he intend to buy them.
If that's the case, then I totally misunderstood the post and apologize.

First the disclaimers:
- Different makes of speakers, more than any other component, vary greatly
in how they sound.
- Everyone has personal preferences and likes/dislikes in speakers.
- Everyone listens for, and notices, different things in the music they like.
- I think ID speakers provide a good value in sound quality for their cost.
So, before getting upset about what I, or what anyone, writes about speakers please, please, please, go listen for yourself. These are just my opinions.

Curtis was kind enough to let me invade his home and play lots of my CDs/dvd-a's last week so I could hear the Sierras myself. (Thanks Curtis!!) I'm a big fan of my current Ascend 340s, but then I started reading the descriptions about the new Sierras and how others thought they were a really worth while upgrade, so I had to get a chance to listen for myself.

The short version is that for me personally I'm really excited about the Sierras. I think they are going to be a really nice upgrade for me.

My observations:
The biggest improvements that I noticed were the definition and incredible imaging/placement of sounds. For 2 channel material I felt that each instrument was placed with great stability and with noticeable depth in the soundstage.
The tracks that stood out the most in my listening were Yello - Fat City, Santana - The Calling, and Gnarles Barkley - Who Cares. Vocals and instruments were so distinct and the imaging was so solid. I also noticed much more depth in each sound's placement. I could even perceive some of "space/ambiance" around each sound. Listening to Santana gave me tingles. I would anticipate the percussive hits and as they would strike they would be so clean/fast/tight/pow-bam. Sorry, I'm not sure what adjectives to use here. (go listen yourself ~2:50 in the track :)

We then watched some movie clips, and I thought the Sierras really helped in improving dialog intelligibility. I felt that I was able to hear the dialog much better because it seemed easier to "lock onto" and distinguish the dialog from all the other sound effects. Technically, it might be the new tweeter or because of the smooth off axis response?, but whatever the cause, I really liked it.

Lastly we listened to a dvd-a of Alan Parson's On Air for a test of multi-channel music. I wanted to hear if the Ascend 170s would match well enough to the Sierras or if I would need to get 7 Sierras for my surround setup. :) While it would be nice if I could do Sierras all around, I thought the 170s matched quite well. The Sierras need space behind them (they're ported) so I was worried about how I would mount them above me and give them enough space. Luckily, I think I can go with the 170s (and not push my budget as hard :)

For you all in LA, once I get mine and get them all setup you're all certainly invited over to give them a listen yourself.

Woo who, new speakers! Thanks again Curtis.

Thank you for actually giving a review on this thread.

Bleair- Nice summary of the differences. I continue to be amazed at how different familiar pieces sound with the added resolution, imaging, soundstage, and bass extension of the Sierra.

I'm listening to Joshua Redmond's Freedom in the Groove right now and I've heard it hundreds of times before but there are things with the Sierras I've never heard before.

Lastly we listened to a dvd-a of Alan Parson's On Air for a test of multi-channel music.

Thanks again Curtis.
You are welcome...and I just ordered that disc from Amazon.

Slacker chimes in...

Well I finally got a chance to get my Sierras fired up last night after watching the Cavs dominate the Pistons (GO CAVS!). I ran them "large" without my Servo-15 directly from a Denon 3805 (bypassed the Anthem MCA-20 that usually powers our Studio 100s) and threw on a few very familiar CDs and SACDs. First of all, I'm pretty impressed with the build quality of the cabinets, though mine seem to have a few blemishes at the corners that I'll be contacting Ascend about. Furthermore, one of the Sierras is about 1/8" taller than the other...not that it's that big of an issue (and may just be a small-shop kind of thing), but I was surprised by this when I unpacked them and had them sitting right next to each other. Also, I was a bit surprised by the flimsiness of the grilles. Maybe I'm spoiled coming from Paradigm's Studio line, but the Ascend grilles seem pretty cheap in comparison. Not really an issue if the performance is there...

Well after hooking them up and listening, I'm pretty impressed so far. They are very clean and detailed, not bright or harsh at all, though I wasn't listening at very loud levels. The soundstage is very well defined and accurate, especially noticeable listening to "Brothers In Arms" stereo SACD and Beck's "Sea Change." I also listened to "Graceland" and various tracks from Tortoise and Beth Orton and was very pleased with the smooth vocals and tight percussion and the separation of the instruments, a clarity and conciseness that could never be achieved on my kitchen-duty Atoms ($189/pr), but easily managed by the Studio 100s($2399/pr). I'm not trying to put the Sierras in one league of speaker or another, but simply comparing them to what I have connected to my rig and what I'm familiar with. The Sierras seemed very detailed, but laid back compared to my Paradigms...probably the difference between the tweeters, but they had a much less "in your face" presence than what I'm used to. Still very detailed and accurate, but more neutral than what I'm used to. I'd really like to A/B the Sierras with the Studio 20's, but I'm hesitant to drop another $800 on another gorgeous pair of speakers, only to ultimately have to return one or the other. Maybe I can get my local dealer to let me borrow a pair for a weekend, or else I might bring the Sierras in and do the comparison there, though I'd rather do it in my environment with my gear. We'll see how accommodating he's feeling this week!

Unfortunately, last night has been the only time I've had to really sit down and listen to these beauties...finals week starts tomorrow (I'm the giver, not the taker) and I'm taking 3 supercompressed Master's degree classes right now, so more intensive listening isn't on the horizon until next weekend, but I'm looking forward to more time with the Sierras. I'd like to know what other owners are using for stands. I considered building my own, but bamboo veneer/plywood seems to ship from the west coast and I'm not a big fan of buying lumber (not speakers) sight unseen. Just curious what everybody else is using. I haven't seen a Sierra-specific stand mentioned at their forum yet.

J.

I don't think Dave even likes grilles... My 170SE's have serious cutouts in the grilles(around the tweeter), to avoid reflection as much as possible.

He's obviously worried about that, so IMO he makes them thin for a reason.......

Hi Jason,

I am very pleased you are enjoying the Sierra’s! Hopefully, you will be able to find a bit more free time to really get to know them, but for now, please spend your time now preparing for your finals!!!

I felt it was important to address a few of your concerns…

Regarding our grilles, -- Muzz has it exactly right. I am definitely not a fan of grilles but I do realize that they are a necessary evil (more so now then ever with 2 kids of my own ;) )

I don't think Dave even likes grilles... My 170SE's have serious cutouts in the grilles(around the tweeter), to avoid reflection as much as possible. He's obviously worried about that, so IMO he makes them thin for a reason.......

Grilles (the frames in particular) have tremendous influence over the performance of a loudspeaker (and never in a “good” way). In general, the more “frame” the more of a “hit” on performance. I like to use as little frame material as we can get away with to minimize the effect on performance. The Sierra grille frame (much like our other products) is thin for a reason. I assure you that it is quite sturdy and will hold up for years to come.

though mine seem to have a few blemishes at the corners that I'll be contacting Ascend about

Can you please forward me a picture of this? I suspect what you are seeing is common with every natural pair of Sierra’s. This is not a blemish, more of a reveal. It is important to keep in mind that the Sierra cabinet is not wrapped with a veneer; it is a true natural wood finish. In order to hide seams at every edge, the cabinet is assembled using a very specific technique. At each corner, three panels meet together, each with a different pattern to the grain. The front baffle edge is radiused, this cuts into the wood at the corners and “reveals” part of the grain of the top baffle. Our vendor does a remarkable job of blending in the grains of each baffle so that seams are practically invisible but because we decided to radius the front baffle vertical edges, a reveal such as you see in the attached heavily magnified picture is unavoidable. The reveal would not be visible if we used a straight edge but we like the look of the radius and it also helps minimize diffraction.

Furthermore, one of the Sierras is about 1/8" taller than the other...not that it's that big of an issue (and may just be a small-shop kind of thing), but I was surprised by this when I unpacked them and had them sitting right next to each other.

Now THAT is not acceptable to me. Standard tolerance is 1/32” so it is possible that one cabinet can be on the high end of the tolerance and another on the low end, thus resulting in perhaps a difference of 1/16” – but 1/8” difference is not acceptable. Please do me a favor and email or PM me the exact heights of each speaker. I am very curious about this and of course we will take care of it for you….

Enjoy!!!

David-

Thanks for the quick response and for addressing my concerns so thoroughly. I've taken a few pics that I will upload and e-mail to you when I get a chance at work today. I really do like the Sierras quite a bit, both physically and sonically, so I'd like to hold onto them, so hopefully we can work something out.

On a different note, what do you recommend for stands?

J.

David-

Here are the pics that I took this morning:

First pic...angled shot of the two speakers sitting side by side. I didn't have a chance to measure the exact difference, but it's probably right around 1/8".

Second pic...close-up shot of the back left top corner of one of the speakers. It seems like the corner was filled with whatever the speakers are finished with (acrylic?).

Third pic...same shot, but with no flash.

Two final pics in next post.

J.

Fourth pic...shot of the exposed end grain. Probably unavoidable, but still a bit odd.

Final pic...another shot of the end grain at the top of the cabinet.

I'll email you the pics as well, but I thought it was prudent to share with other owners/prospective owners the concerns I voiced.

Thanks,

J.

A somewhat relevant question for David:

Is there an amount of time you like to have the Sierras "broken in" before someone does any critical listening ?

Hi Jason,

Thanks for the pics! That gives me a much clearer picture. The cabinet edges, where 2 panels are joined, are 45 degree mitre joints. I suspect that either the mitre edge or the actual thickness of one of the panels was slightly off so that the edge of one baffle was slightly extended past the edge of the other baffle. The cabinet maker then shaved down the edge of the baffle that hung over, thus revealing more of the internal grain of bamboo.

The difference in height that you detailed is more dramatic than I thought, that is not acceptable to me and I have now implemented an additional QC procedure in our factory. Since this is the first production run of cabinets, it is critical that we give as much feedback to the cabinet vendor as possible, both good and bad.

Send me an email and let me know how you want to proceed. Of course, I would be happy to replace the pair. Far too much going on with the cosmetics of this pair for me to feel good about them so I can only imagine how you feel. :o


A somewhat relevant question for David: Is there an amount of time you like to have the Sierras "broken in" before someone does any critical listening ?

Hi Craig,

I recently took home a "fresh" pair specifically for this reason. Every other set I have heard were very well broken in from the start (numerous tests on the components etc.) I normally gauge break-in time from customers but it is too early to collect this type of data. From my experience, the fresh pair I took home sounded quite good right out of the box. However, after a week of use I compared the woofer TS data from new to used and noticed a compliance change for the better. Based on this, I would recommend 40-50 hours break-in.

Take care!

For those of you interested, a couple of forum members and I are thinking of having a leisurely listening session this coming Sunday afternoon with other speakers and subs:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10707421#post10707421

Curtis ... The GTG looks pretty good.

David - Thanks for the response. Mine have about 15 hours on them now.

Send me an email and let me know how you want to proceed. Of course, I would be happy to replace the pair. Far too much going on with the cosmetics of this pair for me to feel good about them so I can only imagine how you feel. :o KUDOS David! Now that's superb customer service. It comes as no surprise, of course. I just wanted to point it out, in case anyone wasn't paying attention. :)

I spilled the purple all over the table reaching for the phone!! As of yesterday(talked with James) parts will be here later this week. I feel a sick day coming soon...COUGH!! COUGH!!

David - Thanks for the response. Mine have about 15 hours on them now.

Craigsub, have you posted your Sierra impressions anywhere?

"laid back" is the perfect statement. I did some critical listening at similar spl levels vs a pair of b&w nautilus last night. Typical b&w punchy midbass/crunchy midrange stood out much more pronounced against the sierra. The sierra really does sound "balanced" I tried w/o and with a sub (velo dd-18) and think that within 60hz (as mentioned previously in this thread) is the sweet spot for the crossover on this speaker. I guess room acoustics are heavily involved...

I now have my sierras across the front, and my rears are bp7004 towers from deftech lol. Everyone is going to ask me... why you have the big ones in the back?

So you used to have B&W nautilus across the front and BP7004 towers for rears?

no, I had bp7004/s w/ deftech satellite rears... b&w's are just a tad out of my price range... those, along w/ the dd-18 were at my buddy's place in PV

I don't know that I can do the Sierras right now, but i have to say i've been so impressed by Davids responses and the reviews by owners all over this forum that my next speaker system purchase will be Ascends (likely the 340 SE set up).

thanks for all of the great info!

-------------------- edit
Just to clarify, the sierras won't be my next set up unless you can tell me i don't need a sub with them for primarily HT use.....

2-channel may be a matter of personal preference...I won't be using a sub with my Sierras. However, if I were to use them for HT, I'd definitely add a sub. Though the Sierras can dig pretty deep, they don't dig deep enough for most HT applicatoins. If for no other reason, it would take the burden off your gear and the Sierras to have the sub do all the low-end work. Most people are finding that crossing the Sierras at 60 seems to work well w/ a sub and there's plenty of info (especially w/ HT) that's below 60 hz.

J.

These speakers are *NOT* an upgrade vs. the 340s for some us, due to the much lower efficiency. The 340s high efficiency allows them to play loud on a normal home reciever without clipping.
I would probably blow these pretty things up like I blew up my HTM-200s, because my amps would clip.
Fair warning to those who like it loud. Make sure you have enough amp to drive these, or you will be returning them. I know this applies to any speaker, but everyone seems to be saying the 340s are inferior to the Sierra in every way, but they are not when it comes to efficency.

This is true. I was surprised at how high I had to turn up my AVR to get a good listening level with the Sierras. I'm still on the front end of a 2-channel setup for our office and I'll be sure to get plenty of power for these guys.

J.

How do you figure that a less efficient speaker is inferior? What kind of receiver/amps are you running? How loud are trying to pump your Ascends? Is a larger amp an option for you?As long as you have a decent amp it shouldn't hurt it to run it wide open. I don't think my 340s are inferior at all, just different compared to Sierras. For as long as I have had them they have been the most neutral speaker I have ever owned. That being said, I can't wait to get my Sierras delivered tomorrow. :D

Having never heard any of Ascends other offerings, I have no point of reference to compare their speakers. And I'm certainly not saying that the Sierras are inferior by any means to other speakers that I have heard. However, they do require an extra amount of power to get them nice and loud, which may or may not be an issue for other owners or prospective owners. As I previously posted, I'll be taking this into serious consideration when buying gear for my 2-channel setup. In the meantime, I'll just hook them up to my Anthem and let 'em rip! :)

J.

How do you figure that a less efficient speaker is inferior? What kind of receiver/amps are you running? How loud are trying to pump your Ascends? Is a larger amp an option for you?As long as you have a decent amp it shouldn't hurt it to run it wide open. I don't think my 340s are inferior at all, just different compared to Sierras. For as long as I have had them they have been the most neutral speaker I have ever owned. That being said, I can't wait to get my Sierras delivered tomorrow. :D

If higher efficiency is important to you, for whatever reason, then a lower efficiency speaker is inferior to you. Simple as that.

I am running a Pioneer 1014TX. It is a rebadged Pioneer Elite that is THX certified. Say what you want about other THX certification, but their amp tests mean something. I read about a lot of people powering their speakers with MUCH less beefy amps than mine. There is a whole thread on the Ascend forums talking about how great the Panasonic digital amps are.... my 1014 *kills* those things for power output, and it *still* clipped my HTM-200s. So I guess I just wanted to put out a warning to those who are planning on buying these sweet new speakers, not to crank them too loud on a whimpy amp, or you might blow them. After blowing a few speakers, I consider a beefy amp to be one that matches or exceeds the rated power input of speakers. For the Serria-1 that would be 200W RMS/ 400W Max. Which means a pro-amp or expensive home amp.

Unless David comes on here and says, "crank your Panny XR57 to the max, these things have a built in fuse, it won't hurt them!" ....I'd follow my advice.

I am running them on an AVR-635 and my 9pm(grouchy neighbors sleeping already) music listening levels are around -20db on the volume knob...

movies, I can get to around -10db, I have never gone that high with any of my previous speakers... I don't really mind.

Having the center channel takes a LOT of the volume burden off the l/r during HT though.. I prefer to take my center down a few notches in DB so that I get more prominent ambient effects in the l/r/sl/sr...

Most speakers would be better served regardless of power rating with more clean power then not enough. I am no expert, but the sierra's are 8 ohm normal and most decent avr's should do the job! JMO :)

FWIW, I think mziegler and xcjago are driving their Sierras with a Denon 280X receiver without issues.

And I've just had mine hooked up directly to my 3805 with no problems either. I was just noting that I was surprised at how much higher I had to turn up my AVR to get comparable volume on the Sierra.

J.

Yup, 2805 here, 100 watts per channel no problem. -10dB is plenty loud. The 2805 goes up to +3.

I don't think anyone with a $300 receiver would buy speakers that cost $850/pair. Your system needs to be balanced.

edited: I had the wattage wrong

Someone on the Ascend forum is using a Marantz 4001 which is advertised as 80 x 7.

I don't think anyone with a $300 receiver would buy speakers that cost $850/pair. Your system needs to be balanced.
That's what I would think too...but I have seen otherwise. :)

Someone on the Ascend forum is using a Marantz 4001 which is advertised as 90 x 7.


That's what I would think too...but I have seen otherwise. :)


I'm a fine example. I'm going to be running the sierra's of a 2x25 amp that is bundled in my emotiva pre-pro.

Temporarily of course.

Well, I don't think my Yamaha HTR-5640 was more than $300. :o
And, it seems to do fine. Although maybe I just don't crank it up as high as you guys.


Mitch

edited: I had the wattage wrong

Someone on the Ascend forum is using a Marantz 4001 which is advertised as 80 x 7.

Originally Posted by xcjago
I don't think anyone with a $300 receiver would buy speakers that cost $850/pair. Your system needs to be balanced.

That's what I would think too...but I have seen otherwise. :)

Weird I would have considered that pretty balanced. Of course I'm speaking 2ch, 7.1, (seven 850$ speakers) plus a sub, then I might have gone with a 320~330$ receiver :p

Maybe Ascend can chime in, but wattage requirements varies depending on a few factors. On is room size, bigger rooms require more watts for same SPL in smaller room. Another very important is at what level will you be playing them. If you won't play them loud, then you don't need an amp with a lot of watts.

Rule of thumb is you double watts for 3dB increments.

Sierra is 86.5dB.
340SE is 90dB.

Which means to play the Sierras as the same volume with the 340SE with 50 watts you'd need something like a 110 watts. Or 340SE + 100 watts = Sierra + ~225 watts.

Anyhow, I'll do some tests, I have a 30 watts integrated and a QSC 280 watts pro amp. My old Totem Sttafs (also 87~88dB?) sounded fine with both. IMHO, Sierras shouldn't be much different.

Yup, 2805 here, 100 watts per channel no problem. -10dB is plenty loud. The 2805 goes up to +3.

I don't think anyone with a $300 receiver would buy speakers that cost $850/pair. Your system needs to be balanced.

Well I don't know ? Most of what I've read and been taught suggest that's the correct ratio. 30% of budget for avr or amp and 70% for speakers.

I'm using it with HK247 which is 50x7, but in stereo mode it's 65x2.
Yes, the Sierras are little inefficient, but I knew that when I ordered them.
I had 340s crossed over at 80 and I have done most of my listening full range on Sierra. For most CDs, it gets pretty loud at -20 and I get dirty looks. On few CDs I have to increase the volume to -10 or so. I'm thinking that I might not be leaving any headroom there. I'm planning to cross over at 60 in long term if that does not help, a used amp might be a good idea.

The columbia SACDs of "Kind of Blue" and "Timeout" are very badly recorded. I had to crack the volume up to +1 to get anything out. The Telarc SACDs are recorded fine though. I'm thinking of returning the Columbia ones.

My Yamaha 5550(75X5 I believe) seems up to the task, of course I'm only 8' away.
Is it as good as a 10K amp? Of course not...
Does it do OK for moderate levels?
Yeah.
It'll do for now.

I do have to turn it up a bit more, but it always had plenty of headroom in this room.

BTW, these Sierras sure sound good(sweet looking too), been watching the Dave Matthews-Central Park Concert in PCM 2.0, and I'm surprised at the bass that comes outta these lil suckers.

Back to enjoying!!

The columbia SACDs of "Kind of Blue" and "Timeout" are very badly recorded. I had to crack the volume up to +1 to get anything out. The Telarc SACDs are recorded fine though. I'm thinking of returning the Columbia ones.
Don't have that sacd, but I doubt it's the case. The opposite is true though, modern records are compressed to hell and have no dynamic range, but they're LOUD, so yeah, you don't need to put a lot of volume for them to play loud, but that's not an advantage over a well engineered record.

Just the fact that you said they don't 'play loud' hints that they have a better sound quality than you normal craptastic records. In fact it doesn't matter at all, unless you're at max volume of your amp and you still aren't loud enough... But otherwise, just up the volume a little and enjoy. What sucks aren't those records, it's the other piece of **** records with piss poor sound compression & no dynamic range.

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/

So many good records were totally ruined because of that... If people start to get refunds for well engineered cds because they aren't LOUD......... It should be the other way around, return your other garbage cds with no dynamic range and piss poor sound quality.... Sorry if I sound harsh, but it pisses me off when I like music that I can't listen to because of some dickhead who overcompressed the cd... When that happens, it'll always sound like ****, no matter if you've got Sierras or POS BM speakers...

Don't have that sacd, but I doubt it's the case. The opposite is true though, modern records are compressed to hell and have no dynamic range, but they're LOUD, so yeah, you don't need to put a lot of volume for them to play loud, but that's not an advantage over a well engineered record.

Just the fact that you said they don't 'play loud' hints that they have a better sound quality than you normal craptastic records. In fact it doesn't matter at all, unless you're at max volume of your amp and you still aren't loud enough... But otherwise, just up the volume a little and enjoy. What sucks aren't those records, it's the other piece of **** records with piss poor sound compression & no dynamic range.

http://createdigitalmusic.com/2007/05/16/loudness-war-music-over-compression-demonstrated-on-youtube/

So many good records were totally ruined because of that... If people start to get refunds for well engineered cds because they aren't LOUD......... It should be the other way around, return your other garbage cds with no dynamic range and piss poor sound quality.... Sorry if I sound harsh, but it pisses me off when I like music that I can't listen to because of some dickhead who overcompressed the cd... When that happens, it'll always sound like ****, no matter if you've got Sierras or POS BM speakers...

was about to type a rant until i got down to your post. Well said sir :D... remember people... dynamic range is what high end speakers are all about!

Yeah...I have a CD by Dean Peer....great solo bass guitar stuff, and it is recorded at a lower level than most other CDs. You don't think of bass guitar and dynamic range in the same sentence...but wow..great disc. Have not tried that one on the Sierras.....better put it on the list.

In April I purchased five CMT-340's and a HSU VTF-2 MK 3 subwoofer, primarily for HT use. When the Sierras were introduced, I decided to use the 30-day exchange period to upgrade.

Last week I received five Sierras, and sent the 340's back. I loved the 340's, but in my opinion, the Sierras are a pretty significant upgrade. It's not like the Sierras blow the 340's away. Rather, it seems like everything I liked about the 340's the Sierras do noticeably better.

However, I am not disagreeing with S_rangeBrew's point. When I talked to Dave about upgrading from the 340's to the Sierras, he suggested that the only reason I might prefer to keep the 340's is if I want to fill a very large room at high volume levels, or my amplifier was not powerful enough.

-Dave

Weird I would have considered that pretty balanced. Of course I'm speaking 2ch, 7.1, (seven 850$ speakers) plus a sub, then I might have gone with a 320~330$ receiver :p

Maybe Ascend can chime in, but wattage requirements varies depending on a few factors. On is room size, bigger rooms require more watts for same SPL in smaller room. Another very important is at what level will you be playing them. If you won't play them loud, then you don't need an amp with a lot of watts.

Rule of thumb is you double watts for 3dB increments.

Sierra is 86.5dB.
340SE is 90dB.

Which means to play the Sierras as the same volume with the 340SE with 50 watts you'd need something like a 110 watts. Or 340SE + 100 watts = Sierra + ~225 watts.

Anyhow, I'll do some tests, I have a 30 watts integrated and a QSC 280 watts pro amp. My old Totem Sttafs (also 87~88dB?) sounded fine with both. IMHO, Sierras shouldn't be much different.

You quoted the anechoic sensitivity. The 'typical in-room' sensitivity is listed as 92 dB for the 340SE, and 87 dB for the Sierra, a very substantial 5 dB difference, suggesting consideralby more than double the wattage for the Sierra to achieve the same dB as the 340.

Well I don't know ? Most of what I've read and been taught suggest that's the correct ratio. 30% of budget for avr or amp and 70% for speakers.


I'm pretty sure they are talking about five speakers. If you were buying Sierras, that would cost you around $2000. So $2000 for the speakers and $300 for a receiver, not a good idea.

You quoted the anechoic sensitivity. The 'typical in-room' sensitivity is listed as 92 dB for the 340SE, and 87 dB for the Sierra, a very substantial 5 dB difference, suggesting consideralby more than double the wattage for the Sierra to achieve the same dB as the 340.

I don't think it should matter really... The normal sensitivity rating is anechoic. In room is... I don't know what it is but it isn't normalized... Some companies add 2dB, others 4, others 3, I don't think it's a 'real' measurement, more just a stat to boost the specs, "they're 85dB but in room they're 89dB! Only 1dB less than 90, they're not that bad!". Maybe some can chime in, but I never really give any importance to in room, only anechoic. Rooms vary, so does that rating it seems...

Why would the 340SE 'gain' more sensitivity in room than the Sierra?

Why would the 340SE 'gain' more sensitivity in room than the Sierra?

I think that is the product of two drivers. Like having two co-located subs.

I think that is the product of two drivers. Like having two co-located subs.
Don't think that is it because then speakers with even more drivers would display even more room gain, and they don't.

Here's the specs for a competitor's 2 way with 6.5 inch woofer

SPL in Room1w/1m: 92 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m: 88 dB

It gains a whooping 4dB in room... wow!

for a 5 inch 2 way..
SPL in Room1w/1m: 91 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m: 87 dB

also 4, wow!

for one with 2 woofers
SPL in Room1w/1m: 93 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m: 89 dB

Another 4 dB, wow! That's amazing!

For one with 4 woofers and 2 tweeters
SPL in Room1w/1m(dB): 95 dB
SPL Anechoic 1w/1m(dB): 91 dB

also 4... Really amazing how the speakers from this brand get more sensitive in room than others...

So the general rule to me is that for one competitor, in room = Anechoic + 4dB. Also worth to note that their anechoic specs already seem inflated when looking at measurements... So like I said, in room = useless. Go with anechoic, and even then, take the ratings with a grain of salt, as they're most often than not exaggerated...

Ascend seems to be one of the few who doesn't seem to inflate their specs. (bass extension, sensitivity, +/- X Db, etc...) So should keep that in mind when comparing with some competitors...

Since DaveF is so meticulous, thorough, and honest, though, I tend to believe that the numbers he quotes have meaning.

Right, but since 'in room' doesn't seem like a normalized specification, it can basically mean anything... So it's really not something you should put too much weight on, especially given the fact, like I said, that others have a tendency of inflating their specs... So for a specification which has no predetermined boundaries (can mean anything) they're free to inflate it even more than the usual specs...

It's not really a 'real' specification... It's more a marketing number IMHO. I don't think the Sierra should be worst than other speakers in room vs anechoic... But maybe Dave can weigh in...

hey everyone. i recently pulled the trigger on a set of sierra 1 fronts/center and htm-200s rear. they should be here in about 3-4 weeks. i will be running them in my bachelor pad living room (read: home theater) without a sub (can't justify $532 for a Hsu sub at the moment)

in the last few posts i've noticed people talking about how the sierra-1's won't get as loud as the 340se's given the same wattage. how loud do the sierra-1's get? i'm running an onkyo tx-sr674 receiver, with no other amp.

right now, it's hooked up to a kenwood 5.1 home theater in a box from 2002. they can get somewhat loud, but i'm looking for a little more honestly. will the sierras deliver? i know they will sound better, but will they get louder if i so desire?

also, do you think my bass will be better or worse going from kenwood 5.1 with a sub to the sierras along the front without a sub?

With my older Onkyo (forget which one it is), when I re-calibrated my sound levels with the Sierra-1's, I had to bump my levels to +8 from their prior setting of +0 (+2 in one case) to get back up to the test tone reference level. I receive my Onkyo 805 tomorrow which should have a bit more horsepower. I'll be curious if the Sierra's require an equal amount of boost over my other speakers.