I'm a novice when it comes HD, I've only had my Samsung 34" CRT for about a year and a half. I know for sure if a program is HD because of the 16X9 aspect ratios and the detail in the picture. But what I dont know is the subtle differences between a program that is 720p and a program that is 1080i. They ALL look sharp to me :D! Some programs appear "softer" than others, but still, the glistening sweat on peoples faces look the same, the sharp strands of fur on the wild animals look the same, etc. How can I tell for sure if a program I'm watching is 720P or 1080i?

Well, if you cant tell a difference, then why do you really care?

On your CRT though 1080i should look a little better.

Here is a cheat sheet

720p: ABC, FOX, ESPN, ESPN2, MyTV (moved)
1080i: CBS, NBC, HDNET, UHD, WB

I'm not sure about HBO and Showtime, but I think they are both 720p

Actually, isn't MyTV 720p since its a FOX network?

Anyway, I gave up giving a crap about 720p vs 1080i. You'll end up watching whatever show you want on a network despite which resolution they've picked. It ends up being moot.

Anything News Corp (Fox, My Network TV) or Disney (ABC, ESPN) owned is 720P. Everything else is 1080i. Time Warner's HBO and CBS's Showtime are 1080i.

720P vs 1080i is an endless debate on AVS, but most agree that either standard can produce good results.

oooh, I see 720P vs 1080I and I think, there's about to be one big fight here! Start digging your trenches and hunkering down folks, this could get ugly. Namecalling, the bringing up of credentials, links to other sources.....it's ON!!!
;)

Hatfields vs McCoys ... Dems vs Republicans ... Communism vs Democracy ... Evolution vs Creationism ... all these pale compared to 1080i vs 720p !!! Be sure to duck when things get crazy.

heh, chalk me up to the group that says I don't care, HD is all I need :D

Well, if you cant tell a difference, then why do you really care?

On your CRT though 1080i should look a little better.

Here is a cheat sheet

720p: ABC, FOX, ESPN, ESPN2, MyTV (moved)
1080i: CBS, NBC, HDNET, UHD, WB

I'm not sure about HBO and Showtime, but I think they are both 720p

I just want to KNOW, just to know the quality of HD I'm getting from that particular show or channel, that's all. Based on the answers, there isn't any real concrete way of knowing, you just have to know in ADVANCE which resolution that station broadcasts in.

But you know the motion blur that you get sometimes when the action on the screen gets fast? Is that more likely to occur in 720 or 1080?

Actually there is a concrete way of knowing, if it's on a channel that broadcasrs 720p then the show is in 720p, if it's on a channel that broadcasts in 1080i then it's in 1080i.

You can also tell becuase your TV will tell you (unless your box scales it for your TV). How do you watch your HDTV? TV Tuner? Satelite? Cable?

personally, watching on my laptop's LCD screen, I prefer 720p for moving shots (LOST while someone was running in the jungle was amazing whereas CBS basketball coverage often has some blocking, though that may be my affiliate's multicasting). If a station's multicasting, I hope they use 720p. My ABC affiliate has a weather subchannel but it still looks good unlike CBS.

But HD is much better than SD so I can't complain :)

I just want to KNOW, just to know the quality of HD I'm getting from that particular show or channel, that's all. Based on the answers, there isn't any real concrete way of knowing, you just have to know in ADVANCE which resolution that station broadcasts in.

But you know the motion blur that you get sometimes when the action on the screen gets fast? Is that more likely to occur in 720 or 1080?Both systems use the same shutter time for live cameras, ~1/60th sec for US TV, and update the motion at the same rate. Most episodics and features use 24 fps, which typically use a shutter speed of 1/48th sec. Conversion from 24fps to 60hz system use the well known 3:2 pulldown process.

I just want to KNOW, just to know the quality of HD I'm getting from that particular show or channel, that's all. Based on the answers, there isn't any real concrete way of knowing, you just have to know in ADVANCE which resolution that station broadcasts in.

But you know the motion blur that you get sometimes when the action on the screen gets fast? Is that more likely to occur in 720 or 1080?

The Disney family of stations (ABC, ESPN) and Fox broadcast a lot of sports and felt that 720p handles rapid motion better. In many (though not all) cases, I have found that to be true.

The Disney family of stations (ABC, ESPN) and Fox broadcast a lot of sports and felt that 720p handles rapid motion better. In many (though not all) cases, I have found that to be true.

Mind you most of those decisions to go 1080i or 720p were made in the late 90s by networks, who (relative to today) were working largely with speculation and inference as to how a particular product would appear on screen and making decisions based on the technology available at the time.

Fast forward 8-10 years and HD technology is such that in most cases the differences between 1080i and 720p are practically unintelligble in anything other than a scientific environment. With content distribution methods being what they are, bit rate shaping, compression schemes, up/down & cross-converting, and general lack of knowledge with encoders, trying to form an argument as to which format is better on TV based solely on observation of television is pointless. Not to mention the fact that there is a huge difference between the HD of a show shot on HDV (like Dog Whisperer) versus a show shot on a Sony F-950 or a Panavision Genesis camera; and a huge difference between acquring on D5 versus HDV.

I've seen highlights from 1080i networks look better on 720p Sportscenter then they did when it aired on the original network depending on the local affiliate, so nowadays outside of 1080p Blu-Ray/HD-DVD and 2k, 4k uber-formats, format standards are somewhat insignficant.

Well, if you cant tell a difference, then why do you really care?

On your CRT though 1080i should look a little better.

Here is a cheat sheet

720p: ABC, FOX, ESPN, ESPN2, MyTV (moved)
1080i: CBS, NBC, HDNET, UHD, WB

I'm not sure about HBO and Showtime, but I think they are both 720p

HBO and Showtime are 1080i and always have.

Mind you most of those decisions to go 1080i or 720p were made in the late 90s by networks, who (relative to today) were working largely with speculation and inference as to how a particular product would appear on screen and making decisions based on the technology available at the time.

Fast forward 8-10 years and HD technology is such that in most cases the differences between 1080i and 720p are practically unintelligble in anything other than a scientific environment. With content distribution methods being what they are, bit rate shaping, compression schemes, up/down & cross-converting, and general lack of knowledge with encoders, trying to form an argument as to which format is better on TV based solely on observation of television is pointless. Not to mention the fact that there is a huge difference between the HD of a show shot on HDV (like Dog Whisperer) versus a show shot on a Sony F-950 or a Panavision Genesis camera; and a huge difference between acquring on D5 versus HDV.

I've seen highlights from 1080i networks look better on 720p Sportscenter then they did when it aired on the original network depending on the local affiliate, so nowadays outside of 1080p Blu-Ray/HD-DVD and 2k, 4k uber-formats, format standards are somewhat insignficant.

I do agree with virtually every point.

At least here in Jacksonville, however, there is an easily observable difference in signals and it has to do with sub-channels. Unfortunately, our NBC, CW and PBS 1080i stations all have subchannels which sap bandwidth. There are times when their pictures degenerate into multi-colored confetti.

As a result, our 720p stations, ABC and Fox usually tend to look better, especially when there is rapid movement.

Although some will disagree, it's been my observation that 720P does better with lower bitrates. If A-VSB takes off, less bandwidth may be left for HD and 720P may look more attractive to affiliates of 1080i networks.

The difference between 1080i and 720P is hugh on my 92" screen. 1080i is far superior. On my 42" plasma...they look the same. ESPN/ABC/FOX are much softer than the 1080i channels.


Last year there were several baseball games simulcast on INHD (1080i) and ESPNHD (720P). The difference was night and day. INHD was far far superior on my cable system ( Full HD...high bit rates).

On a tiny TV like a 37" you will not see a difference.

1080i, overall, delivers noticeably sharper, more-detailed images on my year-2000 64" CRT RPTV (Philips 64PH9905) at 8' viewing distance. That includes most sports programming. Similar observations, from those with adequate-resolution displays, have been very common in the HD programming forum and elsewhere here since HD broadcasts began.

For sports, 720p's 1/60-sec/frame image acquisition compared to 1080i's 1/60-sec half-frame acquisition isn't a visual advantage at all. 1080i's doubled spatial and format resolution compared to 720p clearly comes across comparing CBS's (etc.) 1080i sports programing with similar 720p sources. Both formats can use up to ~19 Mbps for the best PQ, but comparing a bit-starved 1080i multicasting HD source with a 720p source, multicasting or not, needing less bandwidth (easier MPEG-2 compression, half the format resolution), is misleading. Newer codecs such as MPEG-4 and newer transmission technologies for cable/fiber and DBS, the HD sources for most viewers, means PQ doesn't have to be sacrificed because too many programs are squeezed into delivery channels.

1080's double format resolution compared to 720p, while still not being delivered with effective resolution (http://archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=5667245&&#post5667245) (resolvable detail) matching the format resolution, still has the potential of providing full 1920X1080i/p. By contrast, 720p is limited to 1280X720 permanently. Movies provided to both formats on 1080/24p master tapes tend to level visual differences between both formats because movie resolutions on masters are quite restricted (see links and quotes (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9314235&&#post9314235)).

Some 720p broadcasts using 1080/60p cameras for oversampling/downconversion provide noticeably improved resolution since the limiting and effective resolutions (see 1st link) are boosted. For one golf match delivered in 720p weekdays and 1080i weekends, apparently with 1080/60p cameras, I had to study fine details closely to detect slight 1080i advantages. Oversampling 1080i programming with, say, 4k cameras or 4k digital-intermediate movie-production recordings downconverted to 1920X1080, should similarly boost effective resolution much closer to the format resolution. The growing ownership of 1080p displays could appreciate such full resolution providing they viewed images at a ~33-degree-wide picture angle (sat close enough). -- John