Come on now, where are Batman Begins and the Matrix BR disc at? Can we have a date already! I knwo there are more mssing in action titles but Batman Begins had been out on HD-DVD for almost a year.
Let start with these two for now.

I suspect there will be date after there are players to play them on. By August or September at the latest.

They will be worth the wait,the Matrix set is amazing,and Batman Begins is very good as well.If you can't wait any longer,well....you know what you have to do ;)

They will be worth the wait,the Matrix set is amazing,and Batman Begins is very good as well.If you can't wait any longer,well....you know what you have to do ;)

Don't you dare say it! :eek: :p

I suspect there will be date after there are players to play them on. By August or September at the latest.


Blood Diamond proves they can release them without the features that are supposedly holding them back.

The truth is WB is holding these movies back to hinder Blu-ray's progress in sales and marketshare. Plain and simple.

Plenty of players to play BD movies, but I suspect it'll be on the date when WB runs out of excuses to hold them back.

I thought Java was what was keeping everything held back?

The truth is WB is holding these movies back to hinder Blu-ray's progress in sales and marketshare. Plain and simple.
Then why release on BD at all? If their goal is to hinder BD's progress in sales and marketshare, wouldn't they release their titles on HD DVD exclusively? Your conspiracy theory doesn't hold much water, imo.

"Plain and simple" indeed...

Blood Diamond proves they can release them without the features that are supposedly holding them back.

The truth is WB is holding these movies back to hinder Blu-ray's progress in sales and marketshare. Plain and simple.

Plenty of players to play BD movies, but I suspect it'll be on the date when WB runs out of excuses to hold them back.
They obviously can do anything they want, but these are titles that are perfect for those features. The interactivity is something that all the studios wanted from the new disc formats, and they are going to use it.

When and/or if Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Polar Express, Smallville: Season 5, and The Matrix Trilogy come out on Blu-Ray you guys won't be disappointed, they are great :)

WB's probably testing the market with Blood Diamond... This is the first big title they've released on Blu-ray before HD DVD. If Blood Diamond sell well, missing the IME features on Blu-ray, they'll probably re-evaulate holding back for BD-J.

fitprod

When and/or if Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, The Polar Express, Smallville: Season 5, and The Matrix Trilogy come out on Blu-Ray you guys won't be disappointed, they are great :)
very true im watching revolutions right now just got done watching part one and wow truehd is just killer!

i cant wait to watch pirates tommorrow

bluray and hd-dvd or bust!

Blood Diamond proves they can release them without the features that are supposedly holding them back.

The truth is WB is holding these movies back to hinder Blu-ray's progress in sales and marketshare. Plain and simple.

Plenty of players to play BD movies, but I suspect it'll be on the date when WB runs out of excuses to hold them back.
As Steeb already said, your theory is ludicrous. And it's not about how many players there are, it's about how many players can do Java.

What about all the missing titles that don't sport PIP that are still missing from BD?

Any excuses that are actually viable for these?

Well there also are a bunch of WB movies like "The Perfect Storm", "Casablanca" that have no IME and are still nowhere to be seen....

I'd buy Batman Begins twice before I even considered buying any Matrix movie. How does anybody watch those movies with a straight face? Ridiculous.

As for why Warner would hold titles back: guess which format will end up making them more money as they wait to release when the install base in much larger. I predict Batman Begins selling more on Blu-ray: not because Blu-ray "sells more" but simply because the Blu-ray install base will be larger than the HD DVD install base was when the title was released.

I wonder, once the BD specs are all complete and everything is ready for WB to author, have they done most of the up front work as to minimize the up front work for these titles? It's likely that the encodes are the same as the HD-DVD versions, so I'm assuming they have all of the assets ready to author the discs. They're probably just waiting on the spec to get finalized.

They may already have them authored to the current unapproved spec with the hopes that the features they're using don't change between now and the actual approve date. If that's the case, they could be ready the second the spec is approved and testing indicates everything they've authored works.

Nah. That's scenario would entail doing work that might get nullified by a changing format.

In any case, I wonder how long, after the BD+ standard is set, it will take them to actually start releasing titles.

WB's probably testing the market with Blood Diamond... This is the first big title they've released on Blu-ray before HD DVD. If Blood Diamond sell well, missing the IME features on Blu-ray, they'll probably re-evaulate holding back for BD-J.
The problem is I don't think that Blood Diamond is a good test, I'm not going to buy it, but I would buy Batman, Matrix, and Smallville. It's a good thing they're also releasing "300" on BD, I'll probably buy that one sight unseen, could care less about it not having IME.

I'd buy Batman Begins twice before I even considered buying any Matrix movie. How does anybody watch those movies with a straight face? Ridiculous.


Ridiculous that someone (i.e. many people) like a blockbuster movie that you don't like? Wow, someone has an elitist idea of themselves.

The only Matrix I am concerned with is the first one the other 2 are a joke. Can't wait to get the Batman Begins and Dark Knight, anyone see the JoKer..

Warner just leveling the field so that each format competes with all other things then just content.

Don't you dare say it! :eek: :p

PFFF...YOU know, in September when the release of dual format player , that means the end of war...Peace and love! :)

PFFF...YOU know, in September when the release of dual format player , that means the end of war...Peace and love! :)
You're delusional if you think dual format players will end the war... they only make it worse. :rolleyes:

You're delusional if you think dual format players will end the war... they only make it worse. :rolleyes:I do believe dual format players are the future...it looks like both formats are here to stay. :)

I'd buy Batman Begins twice before I even considered buying any Matrix movie. How does anybody watch those movies with a straight face? Ridiculous.

That is an easy one, I put the disc in my player and sit on my couch and hit play. ;)

Seriously though, I love them. The action sequences are top notch, the music is phenomenal, the designs rock, and the overall story to the series is very well done. If you follow Mythology like I do, you notice quite a bit of references throughout the series. Plus the battle between Neo and Smith in Revolutions is outstanding.

I just hope they don't hold back Batman Begins till Dark Knight comes out.

The only Matrix I am concerned with is the first one the other 2 are a joke. Can't wait to get the Batman Begins and Dark Knight, anyone see the JoKer..

Same here. Matrix 1 was great, the other two, weren't that great except for a couple of good fight scenes.

That joker picture doesn't look great. This one looks better.
http://www.holycow.com/joe/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/joker_darknight.jpg

burn a HD-DVD player? Oh yeah....I already gave mine away to hell.

They will be worth the wait,the Matrix set is amazing,and Batman Begins is very good as well.If you can't wait any longer,well....you know what you have to do ;)

Same here. Matrix 1 was great, the other two, weren't that great except for a couple of good fight scenes.

That joker picture doesn't look great. This one looks better.
http://www.holycow.com/joe/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/joker_darknight.jpg

Prince in white face? No, thanks.

I think Warner clearly favors HD DVD and are not releasing certain titles in fear of Blu-ray taking a bigger lead in the Nielson numbers. It is what it is. They're only supporting for Blu-ray for political reasons but have done so in a half-assed manner (remember they only wanted to support HD DVD initially). Plenty of non PIP titles still not released or even announced for Blu-ray - and some of these titles have been out for a year on HD DVD. While it's true there is the Java issue with Blu-ray that won't be resolved for a while, why not still release Batman Begins or Matrix (which was released on the same day as Pirates on Blu-ray..hmmmm) without the interactive features? Finally, there is no good excuse for the lack of lossless audio tracks on several Blu-ray titles when the HD DVD version contains it. At least it appears they may be coming around with 300 getting TrueHD and no delay as it won't have the interactive stuff. Most Blu-ray consumers would rather have it now rather than wait for the Java issue to be resolved. And, before anyone says that Warner wants Blu-ray consumers to have the same experience as HD DVD consumers - then why wasn't this the case with the missing lossless audio on some titles? Audio quality is FAR more important to most than interactive stuff - especially for early adopters.

Same here. Matrix 1 was great, the other two, weren't that great except for a couple of good fight scenes.

That joker picture doesn't look great. This one looks better.
You realize thats a photoshop, right? Thats a mockup using the poster for the old film "The Man Who Laughs" starring Conrad Veidt, whose image was the design basis for The Joker.

You realize thats a photoshop, right? Thats a mockup using the poster for the old film "The Man Who Laughs" starring Conrad Veidt, whose image was the design basis for The Joker.

Which one's the fake?

The one that looks like a movie poster or the one 'attached' to the post a few up?

poster..obviously isn't ledger

poster..obviously isn't ledger

Thanks :)

Everybody has that one movie that everybody else loves that they utterly despise. For me, it's the Matrix movies (ALL of them). I just can't believe that people are paying $60 - $90 to watch these movies again and that their HD release has been such a big deal. I thought the world kind of moved on from the Matrix fad years ago.

Why do I hate the Matrix? I could write a book, but the short version is: cliche names and characters (a big guy named "dozer"? Is this a GI Joe cartoon?) + hit you over the head stupid philosophy 101 pretentious speeches + damn slow motion bullets that have been plaguing cinema ever since + horrible acting + why is there a rave? + tons of other problems.

Other popular series are not great cinematic moments either (Star Wars, Pirates, Spidey) but those films mostly succeed at their primary goal: being a fun adventure. Matrix is not fun or insightful or any of the other things it tries so hard to be. The Matrix is really just Michael Bay trying to hide in an intro philosophy class and saying the word "hacker" in an attempt to be cool.

This is all just my opinion of course. I've said my piece and will shut-up about it now. I'm not trying to insult anybody but I just really really hate the Matrix movies. No other film series draws as much ire from me. It's like my Kryptonite.

On topic: I want Batman Begins on Blu-ray BAD (Christopher Nolan = genius) but I could care less about the Matrix.

On topic: I want Batman Begins on Blu-ray BAD (Christopher Nolan = genius) but I could care less about the Matrix.

I also want Batman Begins on BD really bad. I have the DVD version which i am going to try on the PS3 which the up-scaling update and see how different it is.

On a side note, I apologize for posting an old mockup picture of the joker, here is the real one :D
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/7084/brokebackgothamuv6.jpg

One more reason I have both formats. ;)

I do believe dual format players are the future...it looks like both formats are here to stay. :)

If that ends up being true....then a lot of the bigger movies will never see either format...they will both remain less than nitchie.....because the masses will never adopt both.

Universal players sold ziltch to the masses....and it will be the same for combo players.

The only way there is even a chance for mass adoption and possibly replacing dvd...is for there to be one format....and the sooner the better.

Other popular series are not great cinematic moments either (Star Wars, Pirates, Spidey) but those films mostly succeed at their primary goal: being a fun adventure. Matrix is not fun or insightful or any of the other things it tries so hard to be. The Matrix is really just Michael Bay trying to hide in an intro philosophy class and saying the word "hacker" in an attempt to be cool.


What does Michael Bay have to do with the Matrix?

And what a rant! :) I don't think any one should care that you don't like the Matrix, do you think anyone cares? I don't, in fact, I don't like the Matrix series either. There's a thing called preferences and opinions, you don't have to defend them either because it's a PERSONAL preference! ;)

I purchased the Matrix set because they're decent-mindless flicks and contain a handful of good action sequences (the non-martial arts ones).

What does Michael Bay have to do with the Matrix?

You answered your own question :)

I purchased the Matrix set because they're decent-mindless flicks and contain a handful of good action sequences (the non-martial arts ones).

And what a rant! :) I don't think any one should care that you don't like the Matrix, do you think anyone cares? I don't, in fact, I don't like the Matrix series either. There's a thing called preferences and opinions, you don't have to defend them either because it's a PERSONAL preference! ;)

Of course I was just expressing my opinion. What you say is true but this forum is full of people bickering over personal preference and I dipped my toe in those waters a bit. Like I already said: I have said my piece and won't bring it up anymore. It's just that sometimes these forums get so caught up in bitrates and codecs that it seems to lose sight that a good movie with a crappy transfer is still a good movie and a horrible movie with pristine HD visuals is still horrible. But of course: enjoy what you like. I accept that my utter disdain for the Matrix is one of those things where I'm in the vast minority.

i too wondered why there was a rave, that part was not only unnecessary, it was way way way too long. and how many ppl said "die already!" near the end of the 3rd film?

i'd only want the first matrix film on blu-ray, if and only if its pq and aq are 4.5 stars across all review sites.

reloaded had some nice moments, i enjoyed the highway chase, monica belluci, and some of the other action sequences.

don't remember much of revolutions, worst of the 3 imo, the end battle between neo and smith looked like an episode of dragon ball on cg.

PS: LOL at the brokeback gotham photo and i want Batman Begins on blu-ray!

hopefully they dont skip out on Dolby True HD for batman begins, that movie sounds incredible.

Speaking of preferences...I'd prefer the two Michael Keaton Batman movies over Batman Begins.

Speaking of preferences...I'd prefer the two Michael Keaton Batman movies over Batman Begins.

And I would prefer the batman's with Jim Carrey and Arnold Schwarzenegger over the Michael Keaton ones. (But I still want Batman Begins First)

For all of you putting up pictures of the Joker that aren't real, this is a REAL OFFICIAL preview pic of Heath Ledger as the Joker in The Dark Knight. It has been verified by WB studios. Go look it up if you don't believe me.

http://superherohype.com/nextraimages/jokerrevealed.jpg

The scar makeup on the Joker looks horrible. Somebody please get Rob Bottin or Stan Winston!!

Dan

Everybody has that one movie that everybody else loves that they utterly despise. For me, it's the Matrix movies (ALL of them). I just can't believe that people are paying $60 - $90 to watch these movies again and that their HD release has been such a big deal. I thought the world kind of moved on from the Matrix fad years ago.

Why do I hate the Matrix? I could write a book, but the short version is: cliche names and characters (a big guy named "dozer"? Is this a GI Joe cartoon?) + hit you over the head stupid philosophy 101 pretentious speeches + damn slow motion bullets that have been plaguing cinema ever since + horrible acting + why is there a rave? + tons of other problems.

Other popular series are not great cinematic moments either (Star Wars, Pirates, Spidey) but those films mostly succeed at their primary goal: being a fun adventure. Matrix is not fun or insightful or any of the other things it tries so hard to be. The Matrix is really just Michael Bay trying to hide in an intro philosophy class and saying the word "hacker" in an attempt to be cool.

This is all just my opinion of course. I've said my piece and will shut-up about it now. I'm not trying to insult anybody but I just really really hate the Matrix movies. No other film series draws as much ire from me. It's like my Kryptonite.

On topic: I want Batman Begins on Blu-ray BAD (Christopher Nolan = genius) but I could care less about the Matrix.

I feel the same way at the POTC franchise.

I feel the same way at the POTC franchise.

You think POTC is full of pretentious philosophy and overdone slow-motion effects? What version were you watching?

I wonder how many people have decided whether they like or hate a franchise based on what format it is available on? Too many...

Me, I've hated the Matrix since day 1 and I will happily admit that I think Batman Begins is exceptional even though it's not on my preferred format (yet). Children of Men is another I'd love to own but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I'm confident I'll have a blue-boxed Batman by year's end.

I think Warner clearly favors HD DVD and are not releasing certain titles in fear of Blu-ray taking a bigger lead in the Nielson numbers. It is what it is. They're only supporting for Blu-ray for political reasons but have done so in a half-assed manner (remember they only wanted to support HD DVD initially). Plenty of non PIP titles still not released or even announced for Blu-ray - and some of these titles have been out for a year on HD DVD. While it's true there is the Java issue with Blu-ray that won't be resolved for a while, why not still release Batman Begins or Matrix (which was released on the same day as Pirates on Blu-ray..hmmmm) without the interactive features? Finally, there is no good excuse for the lack of lossless audio tracks on several Blu-ray titles when the HD DVD version contains it. At least it appears they may be coming around with 300 getting TrueHD and no delay as it won't have the interactive stuff. Most Blu-ray consumers would rather have it now rather than wait for the Java issue to be resolved. And, before anyone says that Warner wants Blu-ray consumers to have the same experience as HD DVD consumers - then why wasn't this the case with the missing lossless audio on some titles? Audio quality is FAR more important to most than interactive stuff - especially for early adopters.

very true indeed...good post

MIA: Not in my house...over the weekend myself and 8 others watched 'The Matrix Reloaded' in HD DVD...all everyone could say is Holy ****. PQ and QA were simply stunning and the movie was filled with action. Excellent job from Warner I must add. I really hope Warner releases this soon for people who are not format neutral this series was worth every penny even though I have the SD version of the series...I enjoyed it once again.

Now for our second feature film for the night... 'Apocalypto' This by far was a sleeper...PQ and AQ was simply stunning. The movie itself was excellent. IMO this is one of the best titles in my library and on BD. Matter of fact this is the best movie I have watched this year. ;)

Speaking of preferences...I'd prefer the two Michael Keaton Batman movies over Batman Begins.

WOW :eek:

They will be worth the wait,the Matrix set is amazing,and Batman Begins is very good as well.If you can't wait any longer,well....you know what you have to do ;)

Agreed. And the price for making that leap just keeps getting better. :)

Bah guys don't worry about the Matrix being out on HD before BD...there are some of us that can't even get our copies working! It's better to be late, than early and broken.

Bah guys don't worry about the Matrix being out on HD before BD...there are some of us that can't even get our copies working! It's better to be late, than early and broken.

I guess any HD DVD owner waiting for POTC could say the same thing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=850393

I guess any HD DVD owner waiting for POTC could say the same thing.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=850393

I haven't had a problem with it on my PS3, nor any other title for that matter...if it were a combo release on HD (this is making a pretty big leap anyways, since WB is format neutral and Disney is not), you couldn't pay me to take it.

Bah guys don't worry about the Matrix being out on HD before BD...there are some of us that can't even get our copies working! It's better to be late, than early and broken.

No kidding...from that poll done by your kindred hd-dvd people, it looks like fully 33% (!) of owners are having problems....what a piece of sh*t hddvd is.... :D

No kidding...from that poll done by your kindred hd-dvd people, it looks like fully 33% (!) of owners are having problems....what a piece of sh*t hddvd is.... :D

I wouldn't go so far as to say HD DVD is a POS, but I *would* go so far to say that Tosh is in over their heads. Personally I really like the *potential* of HD DVD, but that's the problem -- I like the *potential*. At this point I'm looking for HD content that actually works, cost be darned, and Tosh is unable (or at the least is struggling) to deliver stable Gen 2 players.

Keep in mind that I am a perennial Sony basher, and I am sitting here telling you that Blu-ray has provided a MUCH more stable and satisfying HD experience for me. HD DVD is on its way to alienating me as a customer via Tosh, and that is a very difficult thing to do. From all appearances, it just *appears* to me that Tosh is trying to pull a David v. Goliath and losing in the QA department...this is JMHO.

Where is a link to this poll where 33% are having trouble with Matrix? Looks like another BD funded FUD to me ;)

As for Toshiba being in over their head. I'd reccommend taking a look at the Amazon HD player rankings for both formats. Not only that, but IF the G1 players were as buggy as claimed they would not have earned BOTH Home Theatre Magazines and Sound & Visions product of the year award last year!

As far as Tosh taking on Sony, I believe Tosh did just that with the DVD specs as well. Sony backed down then...so when it comes to a format war, Tosh isn't really intimidated by Sony, especially if you add in MSFT to the mix now :)

Just waaaaayyyyyyy toooooo much FUD and misinformation. The same 2 dozen or so out of over a hundred dozen owners keep complaining and starting threads with problems. IMO. Of course once a thread is started the same 2 dozen or so BD supporters also join in on the fun. So, even at AVS, we may have a lot of threads, but the number of folks with problems is not many more than the number of threads ;)

Now, PS3 owners have been telling us how upconversion wasn't a big deal. And now that the new firmware has it, it's the best thing since sliced bread. There is fundamentally a different mind set between HD DVD and PS3 owners. An HD DVD will complain about the smallest thing, a PS3 owner will accept whatever the PS3 currently has as being all that is needed and everything else is extra. IMO.

Just like until PoTC had interactivity and a cool menu system, these features were declared to be useless for them....

The song remains the same.... :)

Where is a link to this poll where 33% are having trouble with Matrix? Looks like another BD funded FUD to me ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=852546

As for Toshiba being in over their head. I'd reccommend taking a look at the Amazon HD player rankings for both formats. Not only that, but IF the G1 players were as buggy as claimed they would not have earned BOTH Home Theatre Magazines and Sound & Visions product of the year award last year!

Where did I say anything about Gen 1 players? I have no experiences with them, so how could I possibly comment on them? You may need to brush up on your reading skills...

As far as Tosh taking on Sony, I believe Tosh did just that with the DVD specs as well. Sony backed down then...so when it comes to a format war, Tosh isn't really intimidated by Sony, especially if you add in MSFT to the mix now :)

So because they were allegedly able to do it once successfully, means they are doing the same the second time around?

Just waaaaayyyyyyy toooooo much FUD and misinformation. The same 2 dozen or so out of over a hundred dozen owners keep complaining and starting threads with problems. IMO. Of course once a thread is started the same 2 dozen or so BD supporters also join in on the fun. So, even at AVS, we may have a lot of threads, but the number of folks with problems is not many more than the number of threads ;)

Why don't you just come out and say what you're really thinking and quit beating around the bush. You're calling me a liar. If I am lying, how about you put your money where your mouth is and pay me for my copies of Ultimate Matrix and TGS? And my HD-XA2? I'd be glad to send them your way. Call my bluff, if you think this is FUD or lying.

Now, PS3 owners have been telling us how upconversion wasn't a big deal. And now that the new firmware has it, it's the best thing since sliced bread. There is fundamentally a different mind set between HD DVD and PS3 owners. An HD DVD will complain about the smallest thing, a PS3 owner will accept whatever the PS3 currently has as being all that is needed and everything else is extra. IMO.

Just like until PoTC had interactivity and a cool menu system, these features were declared to be useless for them....

The song remains the same.... :)

This is obviously not directed at me, so I'll let sleeping dogs lie.

I'd reccommend taking a look at the Amazon HD player rankings for both formats. Not only that, but IF the G1 players were as buggy as claimed they would not have earned BOTH Home Theatre Magazines and Sound & Visions product of the year award last year!

The song remains the same.... :)



Yes, I agree plazman, your song does remain the same. I have read posts from you over and over about the sales of HD-DVD set top players. Let me ask you a question: Do you think it's a good thing that HD-DVD has sold WAY more players and yet still can't get close to the number of sales as Blu-Ray software? This argument of yours is getting really tiring. When are you going to acknowledge that the PS3 IS a Blu-Ray set top player? The only difference between the PS3 and a set top Blu-Ray player is that the PS3 plays games, gets online, plays music, notifies me when a new firmware is available, supports Blue Tooth, does HD picture slide shows (via a media server or memory card), etc. How many of those features does your cheap HD-DVD player have? If you'd like, I can do a google search and find a whole lot of publications that would call the PS3 the "product of the year" as well. That doesn't mean anything to me. I know what value I have and you don't see me going over to the HD-DVD forum to try and convince those guys that the PS3 is better than HD-DVD players. It speaks for itself and I don't really feel the need to do so. :D

So, next time, instead of using these lame excuses to try and convince us that HD-DVD is better, think twice. Because it sounds more like you're trying to convince yourself.

I have both the XA2 and the Matrix, so there is no reason to buy it off you. And the Matrix plays just fine on my XA2. You should return your set from where you bought it!

The reason I mentioned the G1 players is because they too were supposed to be buggy and I was simply putting that is perspective. By all accounts the G2 players are an improvement upon the G1. I have owned both....I also mentioned sales of the G2 players on Amazon to show that IF these were as buggy as Mr. claims here, then why would they be consistently selling better than BD players? Even the XA2 sells better than lower priced BD alternatives?

Yes. I'll keep pointing out the truth as many times as I see FUD and misinformation being spread. Not a problem for me. So, you are agreeing with me that BD is a format for the PS3 like UMD is for the PSP? I have no problems in accepting that. And to Mr. ckenisall, the weekly sales gap between HD DVD and BD is around 20K. That's nothing! Also, I see you participate regularly on HD DVD polls. How come?

I take it as a credit when the BD FUD machine gets tired of me. It means I am getting through ;)

Finally. I did read and comprehend Mr. T's post as written. Hopefully you have the context here.

"Do you think it is a good thing that Blu-Ray has to rely entirely on the PS3?" "Is the Blu-Ray attachment rate a good thing?"

Just Curious

Great, I'd love to hear your answers. Because the way I see it, the PS3 is single handedly killing the HD-DVD software sales. You think it's a good thing that of all the HD-DVD players sold, your software sales can't measure up to the small little "UMD" market? :rolleyes: As far as the attachment rate, I don't think it matters. Blu-Ray is still and will continue to outsell HD-DVD software. Attachment rate, schmachment rate. Studios only care about software sold and THAT's where HD-DVD will lose.

I take it as a credit when the BD FUD machine gets tired of me. It means I am getting through
Well, although it's probably not doing that, at least it provides a laugh for those of us Blu-Ray supporters.

Curious though, why is it you feel you need to "get through"? Do you really feel like you make a difference in this format war?

ckenisell how come you keep participating in HD DVD polls? Why? What motivates you? At least I am honest!

It has taken 3 Millions PS3 players shipped to sell 1.4 M in the US, to sell 20K more titles per week v. a format that has 100K or so standalone players + 150K or so xbox drives. That explains exactly why standalones are critical in the long term. The number of PS3 type players needed to achieve a consistent DVD-like sales number each week would require several hundred million players - when each is subsidized by over a hundred dollars each (now it is twice that), the model is economically unviable...

At current rates HD DVD will need less than a fifth the number of BD players to be even on sales. HD DVD has around 40% of the weekly sales share. This is more than sufficient to maintain coexistance until the better economics of HD DVD can come into play in the medium and long term.

The PS3 is single handedly killing Sony for now. This product is a thorn in the side of Sony and they know they have to turn it around fast. It just might end up being one of their most costly failures - ever.

It has taken 3 Millions PS3 players shipped to sell 1.4 M in the US, to sell 20K more titles per week v. a format that has 100K or so standalone players + 150K or so xbox drives. That explains exactly why standalones are critical in the long term.

3 million PS3s?

ckenisell how come you keep participating in HD DVD polls? Why? What motivates you? At least I am honest!

You peaked my interest. I guess I'm guilty. Oooops. I posted one time (back in Nov.) to an HD-DVD poll. But you did mention "polls" plural. Did you see others?

Anyway, I rarely post in the HD-DVD forum. I'd venture to say that over 95% pf my posts are here.

It has taken 3 Millions PS3 players shipped to sell 1.4 M in the US, to sell 20K more titles per week v. a format that has 100K or so standalone players + 150K or so xbox drives. That explains exactly why standalones are critical in the long term. The number of PS3 type players needed to achieve a consistent DVD-like sales number each week would require several hundred million players - when each is subsidized by over a hundred dollars each (now it is twice that), the model is economically unviable...

So now you're comparing the sales of Blu-Ray software to sales of DVD software? This is still very early on. After Blu-Ray players come down in price Q4 this year), perhaps you'll see more sales. I'd venture to say that set top blu-ray player sales will outgrow HD-DVD players by this time next year. Especially after 1.1 is released with BD-Live, Warner releases their "format neutral" titles, POTC 3, Spiderman 1-3 and Cars are released.

That's how many Sony shipped to the US. But only around 1.4 Millions or so have sold so far. Rest is in warehouses (I guess). PS3 sales have been flat......to declining.

The PS3 is single handedly killing Sony for now. This product is a thorn in the side of Sony and they know they have to turn it around fast. It just might end up being one of their most costly failures - ever.

You seem really worried about the well-being of Sony. I think they know what they're doing. If Blu-Ray continues on its current path, the PS3 could end up being one of their largest achievements instead.

Just because they're losing money (at this moment) on the PS3, doesn't mean they won't more than make up for it on the software sales side of things.

Sony is a big company. The PS3 won't break them. However, it is a thorn. I bet they are not happy....

I was using it to contrast it with your observation that PS3 is single handedly killing HD DVD. But I agree with you in the sense that the PS3 is single handedly saving BD from being killed.

Also, as you yourself said, we are in the early stages. Sales right now does not mean much. If sales for either format were to stall at these levels, studios would not care about supporting them. Do you think if BD sales were 4X as high as now that Fox would pull their titles or Disney be so casual about their release calendar? I don't think so. For now, the stakes are low for the studios. No one will lose their job for not releasing on HD.

asj, HD DVD went from a 20% market share in Mid March to a 40% Market share now. That is how business looks at numbers. If the concept of market share and increasing market share seems too complicated for you, let me know....

I guess it's OK for folks to come here and spread misinformation about HD DVD on these sections then?

Sony is a big company. The PS3 won't break them. However, it is a thorn. I bet they are not happy....

Yeah, I'm not sure about this one. Happy? Maybe. If they're losing as much per sale as has been noted, then maybe they are happy they haven't sold a whole lot, but are still outselling HD-DVD software sales. I have no idea how Sony thinks.

I was using it to contrast it with your observation that PS3 is single handedly killing HD DVD. But I agree with you in the sense that the PS3 is single handedly saving BD from being killed.

I have no problem with saying that the PS3 is single handedly saving BD from being killed. But I also have no problem saying that Universal is the only thing that is singlehandedly keeping HD-DVD from being killed. It's much more likely that Universal will support Blu-Ray before 1.x million PS3's disintegrate.


Also, as you yourself said, we are in the early stages. Sales right now does not mean much. If sales for either format were to stall at these levels, studios would not care about supporting them. Do you think if BD sales were 4X as high as now that Fox would pull their titles or Disney be so casual about their release calendar? I don't think so. For now, the stakes are low for the studios. No one will lose their job for not releasing on HD.

I can't say for sure, but I think FOX has temporarily pulled support for Blu-Ray because of piracy issues (which I should state are the same for HD-DVD). They are making a statement that they will not support any format that is easily cracked. With regards to changing release dates, I agree that there would need to be a much higher revenue stream before studios will take these release dates more seriously.

Remember Fox is still releasing on DVD!

I think WB saved HD DVD with the Matrix. Tosh is now cashing in with promos tied to the Matrix. But you're right in that Universal has been spectacular for HD DVD. Without their support and to an extent the MIA WB titles that this thread is about, HD DVD would not be around....

BD will always be around as long as the PS3 is around. But being a format for the PS3 will eventually limit it's growth and marketability. In the short term it spikes sales since people buy consoles at a much higher rate after launch than stand alone players. But eventually, standalone players sell more. The sales graph for standalones is flatter.

Also, while BD player prices are dropping, HD DVD prices are dropping even faster. BD will need to work hard to release sub $300 players. Right now, no player announced is below $500. That I am aware of.

I find it interesting that Disney says they will hold off on their top animated titles until there are more BD players on the market. WB, OTOH released both Batman Begins and Harry Potter early on. Both were premium titles, that they could easily have held back. Batman Begins was a critical title last year timed around the time of the PS3 launch - as was King Kong.

Like I said on another thread, the HD DVD group has less to play with, but their execution is much more disciplined. At tleast to me....

asj, HD DVD went from a 20% market share in Mid March to a 40% Market share now. That is how business looks at numbers. If the concept of market share and increasing market share seems too complicated for you, let me know....

Ah, those are weekly numbers that fluctuate quite a bit based on the releases. Looking at it that way, Blu-ray went from 20% or less to 60% (and at times nearly 80%) within less than half a year, a heck of a lot better accomplishment.

The important point here is that Hd-dvd just shot one of the few "blockbuster" hits it had going for it this year (and a non-exclusive one at that), and it looks very likely that Blu-ray will continue to outsell Hd-dvd anyways for the week. How's that for sad?

Blu-ray continues to outsell hd-dvd titles day in and day out, and the sales gap continues to widen.

I guess it's OK for folks to come here and spread misinformation about HD DVD on these sections then?

It's better than Hd-dvd supporters trolling the blu-ray forums spreading mis-information. The point is that these are blu-ray forums and what we say here is our business. We come here to enjoy blu-ray movies, take potshots at hd-dvd whenever we can, and generally enjoy ourselves, which is not helped when trolls come in and turn threads into shooting matches (or worse, make up new threads that are destined to be shooting matches).

It's unfortunate that avsforum is devolving into something resembling hidefdigest's smackdown forum :mad:

I think it was great that BD went from 33% share at the end of last year to 80% market share at their peak in mid March. It showed the importance of the PS3 in driving sales. However, going from 20% to 40% share (current share is what matters) when you have fewer studios, CE vendor support and hardware sold each month is very very impressive.

Now, you can fluctuate from 30% to 40%, but IF you're the BDA, you're well aware that with a 30% market share it will be hard to win the format war. By that I mean, the BDA currently from both hardware and software pricing are pretty bound by what HD DVD does. There is tremendous pressure to reduce prices. Consider that BD as a format was designed to provide high margins to CE producers and studios while providing better security. We are already seeing region coding not being implemented on many BD titles - why? in response to HD DVD! Panny cutting their player price in 1/2! why? in response to HD DVD!

The BDA knows that the format war is not over, but heating up.

Historical sales gap is a useless concept. The sales gap between GM and Toyota always goes up. However, Toyota continues to pick up market share. That is the big news. No one cars that over the lifespan, GM has sold 10M (or whatever that number is) more vehicles than Toyota and that this year they will sell 200K more. What analysts care care about is that Toyota earns $1000 for each car, while GM loses $1000 for each car and that last year GM sold 500K more cars than Toyota and this year it will sell 200K more - so the gap is closing and GM is losing more money for each car sold. That is how business analysts think....

Take a moment and think about it. It will make sense to you as wel :)

I have both the XA2 and the Matrix, so there is no reason to buy it off you. And the Matrix plays just fine on my XA2. You should return your set from where you bought it!

I'm well ahead of you on that one.

The reason I mentioned the G1 players is because they too were supposed to be buggy and I was simply putting that is perspective. By all accounts the G2 players are an improvement upon the G1. I have owned both....I also mentioned sales of the G2 players on Amazon to show that IF these were as buggy as Mr. claims here, then why would they be consistently selling better than BD players? Even the XA2 sells better than lower priced BD alternatives?

You think just because something sells better, that it is better quality? Hrm, do I *really* have to give examples of how untrue this is?

Yes. I'll keep pointing out the truth as many times as I see FUD and misinformation being spread. Not a problem for me. So, you are agreeing with me that BD is a format for the PS3 like UMD is for the PSP? I have no problems in accepting that. And to Mr. ckenisall, the weekly sales gap between HD DVD and BD is around 20K. That's nothing! Also, I see you participate regularly on HD DVD polls. How come?

I take it as a credit when the BD FUD machine gets tired of me. It means I am getting through ;)

Finally. I did read and comprehend Mr. T's post as written. Hopefully you have the context here.

Dude, I have nothing against HD DVD, in fact if I had to choose , I'd at *least* like to see it coexist...but NOT in its current state. I consider myself to fall somewhere in between "early adopter" and "average consumer", and I'm telling you that after enough frustrations, the average consumer would not take this horrendous QC on Tosh's part. You cannot give me one valid excuse why, 1+ year into this tech war, disks still do not play on my HD-XA2.

Now there are audio sync issues with Matrix being reported. Seriously, how can you defend such bad QC? I wouldn't have nearly the complaints if I could simply download an ISO and update my player, or get a FW disk mailed to me within the next fiscal year. Instead, I have to run LAN cable across the state because Tosh is too cheap to put a wireless NIC in their devices...which *again* wouldn't be an issue if they hadn't used us as guinea pigs. (Ironically, it's the only device that has problems connecting to my LAN, but whatever.)

Try being objective on this man. Sony has nothing to do with this...anyone objective knows Sony has its own issues. But they do NOT belong in this discussion. It drives me nuts when people are so jaded by their own opinions that they can't step back and admit problems when they see them, whether it be in politics, tech, OSes, whatever.

ckenisell how come you keep participating in HD DVD polls? Why? What motivates you? At least I am honest!

It has taken 3 Millions PS3 players shipped to sell 1.4 M in the US, to sell 20K more titles per week v. a format that has 100K or so standalone players + 150K or so xbox drives. That explains exactly why standalones are critical in the long term. The number of PS3 type players needed to achieve a consistent DVD-like sales number each week would require several hundred million players - when each is subsidized by over a hundred dollars each (now it is twice that), the model is economically unviable...

At current rates HD DVD will need less than a fifth the number of BD players to be even on sales. HD DVD has around 40% of the weekly sales share. This is more than sufficient to maintain coexistance until the better economics of HD DVD can come into play in the medium and long term.

The PS3 is single handedly killing Sony for now. This product is a thorn in the side of Sony and they know they have to turn it around fast. It just might end up being one of their most costly failures - ever.

And this my friend is where I become more like the "average consumer" and less like "early adopter". I could care less about all the statistics you OR the BD fans throw around, i.e., how many of this or that have been sold, etc. etc. All I care about is that the tech I dropped my hard-earned money on, actually WORKS. I have had not one problem with BDs -- not one. However, every time I turn around I'm having some new issue with an HD.

Quite frankly, I can't figure it out. BD is supposed to be the new tech, and HD is supposed to be evolutionary. How in God's name can HD (well, Tosh really) be dropping the ball so badly on QC? All their CSRs can do is point fingers at the studios and spread misinformation (i.e., there will be no FW update to fix combo disk issues because it's a Uni problem) about what the FW updates fix.

asj, HD DVD went from a 20% market share in Mid March to a 40% Market share now. That is how business looks at numbers. If the concept of market share and increasing market share seems too complicated for you, let me know....

I guess it's OK for folks to come here and spread misinformation about HD DVD on these sections then?

Please tell me what great misinformation I have spread over here that you feel the need to browbeat me about. You act as though it's a Nazi book burning party! Unlike you, I am more about the consumer than about any one particular technology. And if I go and tell people to mind the adage "caveat emptor" when buying an HD-XA2 or Matrix, based on MY experiences, then I am doing them a favor. Although of course if you even bothered to look at that poll, you'd see it's far more people than me having trouble with the Ultimate Matrix set.

And this my friend is where I become more like the "average consumer" and less like "early adopter". I could care less about all the statistics you OR the BD fans throw around, i.e., how many of this or that have been sold, etc. etc. All I care about is that the tech I dropped my hard-earned money on, actually WORKS. I have had not one problem with BDs -- not one. However, every time I turn around I'm having some new issue with an HD.
Quite frankly, I can't figure it out. BD is supposed to be the new tech, and HD is supposed to be evolutionary. How in God's name can HD (well, Tosh really) be dropping the ball so badly on QC? All their CSRs can do is point fingers at the studios and spread misinformation (i.e., there will be no FW update to fix combo disk issues because it's a Uni problem) about what the FW updates fix.

That is not only hard to believe but also ridiculous.

I consider myself an average consumer as well. What makes you think everyone else buying HD DVD are not spending their hard earned money? IF these players - and you have the XA-2, were as buggy as you make it sound, who in their right mind would be buying it? Either they are all crazy or.....

I'd say the overwhelming evidence of whether the G2 Tosh players are good is against your position. You can accept it or not. That is up to you.

As for the fw update, it was Tosh's way of helping with a software fix what the replication process needs to fix on their end. The fact that certain combo disks have problems is bad and a black eye for HD DVD. Just as PoTC not playing on many BD players - didn't Samsung release an update after PoTC was released. I see lots of complaints about folks with BD standalone players not being able to use various features in the PoTC disks as well....so both formats have their rough edges. No doubt. But you're pretending as IF the XA-2 is an unusable machine and only HT geeks can use it or something. Again. Pure and simple FUD and misinformation.....

That is not only hard to believe but also ridiculous.

I was using hyperbole, c'mon man. Obviously I don't have problems EVERY time I insert a disk into the XA2. But since you question my motives, I'll break down my issues for each movie I've watched (in no particular order of viewing).

Superman Returns: choked a couple times, don't remember where...been too long since I've watched it
Miami Vice: crackly sound issues, was able to fix it when I rebooted machine...also dramatically improved after v1.3
The Good Shepherd: wouldn't play
The Matrix: wouldn't play
The Hitcher: no problems
Full Metal Jacket: no problems

There are a couple others I've watched that didn't have any problems either, but I can't remember what they were.

I consider myself an average consumer as well. What makes you think everyone else buying HD DVD are not spending their hard earned money? IF these players - and you have the XA-2, were as buggy as you make it sound, who in their right mind would be buying it? Either they are all crazy or.....

I'd say the overwhelming evidence of whether the G2 Tosh players are good is against your position. You can accept it or not. That is up to you.

If the players WEREN'T buggy, why are they releasing so many updates to fix major issues?

And by all means, please present me your "overwhelming" evidence that the G2 players are so stable. As far as I'm concerned, anything over 1-2% failure/problem rate is unacceptable (that's a generous %), and they are clearly showing more than 1-2% failure/problem rate...and that it just based on a subset of people on this forum.

As for the fw update, it was Tosh's way of helping with a software fix what the replication process needs to fix on their end. The fact that certain combo disks have problems is bad and a black eye for HD DVD.

That is such a crock, and I don't believe it for a second. So you're telling me, based on the knowledge that most G1 players had no issues with the combo disks, and the issues weren't limited to Uni combos (which everyone initially asserted), that Tosh out of the kindness of their hearts decided to spend their own dollars to fix an issue in their players? And that they misinformed their CSRs by telling them that in no way was this Tosh's fault, and it wouldn't be addressed in a FW update? Man, if you believe that, I have a priceless bag of air to sell you...


Just as PoTC not playing on many BD players - didn't Samsung release an update after PoTC was released. I see lots of complaints about folks with BD standalone players not being able to use various features in the PoTC disks as well....so both formats have their rough edges. No doubt. But you're pretending as IF the XA-2 is an unusable machine and only HT geeks can use it or something. Again. Pure and simple FUD and misinformation.....

I never said the XA2 was unusable for everyone, or at all times. All I can do is tell people what my issues have been, and to be wary of dropping a wad of cash on a crapshoot. It is definitely not the wisest purchase I've made with $1,000.

BTW, I don't understand why you care if I post my experiences in the BD forum about how worthless the Matrix has been for me? It's a fact for many HD owners to assert that the BD owners aren't missing jack, because there are quite a few of us it doesn't work for.

I

If the players WEREN'T buggy, why are they releasing so many updates to fix major issues?

.

The G2 Tosh are on Fw 1.6, the PS3 is on 1.8. FWIW. Both released about the same time....

Try FW 1.6 and see if it fixes your combo disk issues. Looks like you haven't tried it yet.

I was using hyperbole, c'mon man.

Superman Returns: choked a couple times, don't remember where...been too long since I've watched it
Miami Vice: crackly sound issues, was able to fix it when I rebooted machine...also dramatically improved after v1.3
The Good Shepherd: wouldn't play
The Matrix: wouldn't play
The Hitcher: no problems
Full Metal Jacket: no problems

There are a couple others I've watched that didn't have any problems either, but I can't remember what they were.



.

On another note. You claim to have watched 8 or so HD DVDs and bought 28! How come you only have 6 BDs, if it's so flawless? Seems strange to me :confused:

Why don't you do a poll for XA-2 owners to see whether they are happy or not with their purchase? You can see if you're in a minority or majority or whatever.... (remember to make it public) :)

The G2 Tosh are on Fw 1.6, the PS3 is on 1.8. FWIW. Both released about the same time....

Try FW 1.6 and see if it fixes your combo disk issues. Looks like you haven't tried it yet.
He's too lazy to run the LAN cable. :rolleyes:

Historical sales gap is a useless concept. The sales gap between GM and Toyota always goes up. However, Toyota continues to pick up market share. That is the big news. No one cars that over the lifespan, GM has sold 10M (or whatever that number is) more vehicles than Toyota and that this year they will sell 200K more. What analysts care care about is that Toyota earns $1000 for each car, while GM loses $1000 for each car and that last year GM sold 500K more cars than Toyota and this year it will sell 200K more - so the gap is closing and GM is losing more money for each car sold. That is how business analysts think....

Take a moment and think about it. It will make sense to you as wel :)
Now ask yourself, if Toyota made cars that ran on a fuel A, and GM cars ran on fuel B and you were building a refinery - would it make fuel A or fuel B.

If I buy a McLaren F1, whose market share is somewhere around 0.0000000001%, I can still use it because it runs on gas. If HD-DVD loses the format war, your equipment is toast. That's not the same as automobiles and your analogy doesn't work.

Enough, TO remind people rules of the forum if you need to read them again they are in my signature

i. disrupt the normal flow of dialogue, cause a screen to "scroll" faster than other users of the Service are able to type, or otherwise act in a manner that negatively affects other users' ability to engage in real time exchanges;