Even though I already had most of the May 22nd titles pre-ordered through Amazon and Warner Bros., I stopped in at the Fry's Electronics on Thunderbird in Phoenix yesterday afternoon. For the first time since the launch of high definition, I witnessed a group of people swarming the Blu-ray section with beastly amounts of product in their hands (me included). Fry's was very prepared and had boxes of product in preparation for what is sure to be heavy demand this weekend. If this location is any indication, Blu-ray is gonna post unbelievable numbers in the coming weeks and many PS3s should be rolling out of stores. Even though the Matrix is selling handily, I think the Blu-ray juggernaut was visable for anyone's eyes to see. Recently, this location has gone all-out in its support of Blu-ray, offering a large selection of titles and creating an air of excitement. They even had an "A" frame rack stocked with Blu-ray software where they post their weekly ads. Their prices and selection should be a retailing lesson to Best Buy and Circuit City.

This format war is coming down to a war of attrition. The Matrix Trilogy has been released, but what is next for HD DVD? There is still gonna be a steady stream of big titles like the Spidey flicks flowing from Sony, Warner, Paramount, Disney and yes, even Fox the rest of the year. Though I bought The Complete Matrix Trilogy, I have been quietly selling off most of my Warner and Paramount HD DVD titles on Ebay and replacing them with the Blu-ray counterparts. At this point it still makes economic sense for me since they can be replaced through Warner Bros. and Amazon for less than I sell them on Ebay. In addition, I have been choosing Blu-ray whenever a title is dual-format. Since going neutral last December, I have obviously ended up making a choice. I doubt I am alone.

Not so fast. You are counting your chickens too early:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=850922

Anyway, expect both camps to ante up plenty by the new year. Attrition? Neither side is going away anytime soon.

300 is going to be a big day.


Other than that, the summer looks a little dry.

only problem i see with blu-ray is this. while ppl may see the potc bd commercials and give it a look at a b&m retailer such as fry's, they will see the price of entry of the players and be turned off by it. this is where hd-dvd gets a huge advantage with affordable players. most consumers have no clue about the studio support issues and are likely to pick up the hd-dvd player and dive in to hd-dvd than blu-ray. they'll find out later that there will be a lot of titles they cannot play on their player.

I see blu ray winning in the next 36 hours.

they'll find out later that there will be a lot of titles they cannot play on their player.


People don't take well to being suckered into things. 30 day return policies will eliminate a lot of purchases based on that one sentence above...

Not so fast. You are counting your chickens too early:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=850922

Anyway, expect both camps to ante up plenty by the new year. Attrition? Neither side is going away anytime soon.

Seems as if Grubert debunked that 800 figure already.

post #120
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=849308&page=4&pp=30

Frys was sold out on PoTC1 & 2, and Apocalypto, so I went to BB, who fortunately price matched.

I also hit 3 different high volume Targets and they were all sold out of Apocalypto, and Pirates. One Target had a single copy of Pirates CotBP, even though they had the gray dot on the shelf tag.

I was at that same Frys yesterday buying a few Blu-Rays and a few HD-DVDs. Several other people were there buying on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. They also have a A-frame with HD-DVD titles on it right next to the Blu one and as a matter of fact the HD-DVD a-frame was the one facing the front of the store. I agree that they are cleaning the floor with BB and CC. That BB that is just down the street is just about a ghost town. I doubt these releases will spark PS3 sales(welll maybe a few) and I have a feeling that the only thing that will spark those would be a price drop or a very good game coming out.

you're not alone...i stopped HD-DVD support in December as well. I"ll buy The Matrix Blu-Ray next year... I still have hd-dvd movies..but i'm planning to sell them as well. Also, i replaced several of my hd-dvd to blu-ray already.

Hey, I loved HD DVD since I bought my HD A1 last summer. But I have to be honest with myself and believe what eyes are seeing. There were alot of Blu-ray discs moving yesterday and I think the ratio of sales this summer will soon be 5 to 1. The department staff said that it is no contest at this pointand they are there every day. This is gonna impact the shelf space devoted to the formats and unfortunately it doesn't bode well for my old friend, HD DVD.

I was at that same Frys yesterday buying a few Blu-Rays and a few HD-DVDs. Several other people were there buying on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. They also have a A-frame with HD-DVD titles on it right next to the Blu one and as a matter of fact the HD-DVD a-frame was the one facing the front of the store. I agree that they are cleaning the floor with BB and CC. That BB that is just down the street is just about a ghost town. I doubt these releases will spark PS3 sales(welll maybe a few) and I have a feeling that the only thing that will spark those would be a price drop or a very good game coming out.


They must have added the HD DVD to a rack later in the day because it was no where to be found when I was looking at the adverts. Did you notice the amount of space devoted to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD though? Nevertheless, Frys seems to know something the other brick and mortar retailers don't.... so I am rewarding them with my patronage.

I see blu ray winning in the next 36 hours.

That attitude is so 72 hours ago...

I see blu ray winning in the next 36 hours.
The sad thing is... this is much more reasonable then saying HD DVD would ever win.

I have posted numerous times asking people to tell me what HD DVD has that it can use to over take and win. Nobody has EVER taken me up on it. :rolleyes: Usually the answers are as pathetic as this.

I love Fry's. Best Buy you have to wait in line even if there only a few people due to only having like 2-4 registers ever open. Fry's has tons of registers open and there is rarely a wait!

Of course, having much better prices on blu-ray's and better selection on Home Theater gear in general doesn't hurt as well as not being hassled if returning a product like at Best Buy ;)

They even had an "A" frame rack stocked with Blu-ray software where they post their weekly ads. Their prices and selection should be a retailing lesson to Best Buy and Circuit City.

Nice. I just noticed the other day that my local Best Buy here in NYC has added a stand-alone kiosk for Blu-ray movies, in addition to the Blu-ray software section and two Blu-ray demo set-ups in the TV area. They've also been putting big-name Blu-ray titles in the "New Releases" shelves alongside regular DVDs.

The sad thing is... this is much more reasonable then saying HD DVD would ever win.

I have posted numerous times asking people to tell me what HD DVD has that it can use to over take and win. Nobody has EVER taken me up on it. :rolleyes:

Bill Gates buying Sony? MS/Toshiba sending in secret operatives to blow up Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, LG factories?

I was at that same Frys yesterday buying a few Blu-Rays and a few HD-DVDs. Several other people were there buying on both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD. They also have a A-frame with HD-DVD titles on it right next to the Blu one and as a matter of fact the HD-DVD a-frame was the one facing the front of the store. I agree that they are cleaning the floor with BB and CC. That BB that is just down the street is just about a ghost town. I doubt these releases will spark PS3 sales(welll maybe a few) and I have a feeling that the only thing that will spark those would be a price drop or a very good game coming out.


I don't know of any fry's around, so i bought mine (PoTC 1/2) at the local BestBuy...they had TONS of PoTC in stock (similar to CR), and they said they expect to sell them through.

Bill Gates buying Sony? MS/Toshiba sending in secret operatives to blow up Sony, Panasonic, Pioneer, LG factories?
Honest to god that is the best answer I have got yet... :eek:

Even though I already had most of the May 22nd titles pre-ordered through Amazon and Warner Bros., I stopped in at the Fry's Electronics on Thunderbird in Phoenix yesterday afternoon. For the first time since the launch of high definition, I witnessed a group of people swarming the Blu-ray section with beastly amounts of product in their hands (me included). Fry's was very prepared and had boxes of product in preparation for what is sure to be heavy demand this weekend. If this location is any indication, Blu-ray is gonna post unbelievable numbers in the coming weeks and many PS3s should be rolling out of stores. Even though the Matrix is selling handily, I think the Blu-ray juggernaut was visable for anyone's eyes to see. Recently, this location has gone all-out in its support of Blu-ray, offering a large selection of titles and creating an air of excitement. They even had an "A" frame rack stocked with Blu-ray software where they post their weekly ads. Their prices and selection should be a retailing lesson to Best Buy and Circuit City.

This format war is coming down to a war of attrition. The Matrix Trilogy has been released, but what is next for HD DVD? There is still gonna be a steady stream of big titles like the Spidey flicks flowing from Sony, Warner, Paramount, Disney and yes, even Fox the rest of the year. Though I bought The Complete Matrix Trilogy, I have been quietly selling off most of my Warner and Paramount HD DVD titles on Ebay and replacing them with the Blu-ray counterparts. At this point it still makes economic sense for me since they can be replaced through Warner Bros. and Amazon for less than I sell them on Ebay. In addition, I have been choosing Blu-ray whenever a title is dual-format. Since going neutral last December, I have obviously ended up making a choice. I doubt I am alone.

YOu have noticed what many have talked about for quite some time. When a glut of titles comes out for any format (be it a game system like Xbox 360 or a movie format like BD) you will see a flurry of activety from people that already own the hardware. This is normal and to be expected.

In terms of bringin in new people new software helps a tons, but it is not trumped byb price. SD DVD only REALLY began to fly when the players werre $199 or less. I expect the same here.

As of right now, neither side has the edge and both are following very different. yet good strategies. Will the much cheaper HD DVD hardware with fewer movies block busters lose to BD with more expensive hardware and more block busters? Anyone that answeres that question either way should be ignored since they are talking out of their a$$.

YOu have noticed what many have talked about for quite some time. When a glut of titles comes out for any format (be it a game system like Xbox 360 or a movie format like BD) you will see a flurry of activety from people that already own the hardware. This is normal and to be expected.

In terms of bringin in new people new software helps a tons, but it is not trumped byb price. SD DVD only REALLY began to fly when the players werre $199 or less. I expect the same here.

As of right now, neither side has the edge and both are following very different. yet good strategies. Will the much cheaper HD DVD hardware with fewer movies block busters lose to BD with more expensive hardware and more block busters? Anyone that answeres that question either way should be ignored since they are talking out of their a$$.
Your entitled to your opinion.. but mine is that as soon as the retailers can pick a winner they will. They dont want to carry both no matter how bad HD DVD does want them to. Its bad, really just dumb, business to want two formats. It seems to already be happening, at least around my area and the pics of stores on here look good for BR. I have yet to see one with a HD DVD advantage as far as shelf space go.

How bad is it when the cheapest Blu-Ray player is around 3 times higher than the cheapest HD-DVD player and Blu-Ray is still outselling HD-DVD by leaps and bounds? The cheaper player strategy isn't going to win this war. It will become a non-issue within the next 10 months. I am speculating (but it might be confirmed some place) that there will be $299 Blu-Ray players by Christmas '07 and $199 players within 5 months after that. Especially with Sony's ability to produce more Blu-laser diodes (or whatever they're called) than they had originally expected.

Remember, this time last year, we were being told by the HD-DVD crew that BD50 wasn't even a reality.

I think the less expensive HD DVD players will be too late if they even make it to market this year. Now that there is movement by other manufacturers such as Panasonic to lower hardware prices, and retailers like Best Buy and Circuit City uncomfortable with two formats, there will be little if any motivation for the three major studios to defect and go neutral. They don't wanna kill the high definition cash cow. So you have to be honest with yourself and admit the truth when it is staring you in the face. Though both may co-exist for awhile like Beta and VHS, there is an obvious winner emerging. I saw it with my own two eyes yesterday and it was enough to convinced me. To deny that fact would be simply ridiculous.

The Complete Matrix Trilogy is my last HD DVD purchase.

How bad is it when the cheapest Blu-Ray player is around 3 times higher than the cheapest HD-DVD player and Blu-Ray is still outselling HD-DVD by leaps and bounds? The cheaper player strategy isn't going to win this war. It will become a non-issue within the next 10 months. I am speculating (but it might be confirmed some place) that there will be $299 Blu-Ray players by Christmas '07 and $199 players within 5 months after that. Especially with Sony's ability to produce more Blu-laser diodes (or whatever they're called) than they had originally expected.

Remember, this time last year, we were being told by the HD-DVD crew that BD50 wasn't even a reality.
Dont forget the more PS3 Sony sales the more the cost of the BR laser and components come down. Not to mention they just sold a Blu Ray player. That coupled with what games Sony has comming up in the next 6 months... well things look good.

How bad is it when the cheapest Blu-Ray player is around 3 times higher than the cheapest HD-DVD player and Blu-Ray is still outselling HD-DVD by leaps and bounds? The cheaper player strategy isn't going to win this war. It will become a non-issue within the next 10 months. I am speculating (but it might be confirmed some place) that there will be $299 Blu-Ray players by Christmas '07 and $199 players within 5 months after that. Especially with Sony's ability to produce more Blu-laser diodes (or whatever they're called) than they had originally expected.

Remember, this time last year, we were being told by the HD-DVD crew that BD50 wasn't even a reality.

Agreed. They had the lead with the price advantage. If price was the most important factor they would have pulled ahead even further but instead that lead was lost.

Dont forget the more PS3 Sony sales the more the cost of the BR laser and components come down. Not to mention they just sold a Blu Ray player. That coupled with what games Sony has comming up in the next 6 months... well things look good.

Things are looking fantastic for us Home Theater fans and gamers :D

Things are looking fantastic for us Home Theater fans and gamers :D
Absolutely, and they will look WAY better for me tomorrow. I get my PS3 firmware-1080p dvd baby plus God of War 2 in 1080 p, my Warhawk beta and both POTC movies. WOOOOOH. I love being on vacation. :)

I went to pick POTC at local Circuit City (Sugar Land) and I was surprised to see that now they have whole section for Blu-ray and few shelves for HD-DVD. In the past they only used to have Blu-ray movies on a small cart.

Was the same way at my CC. Yesterday they had full shelves and sections for BD and HDDVD whereas previously (it's been probably at least a month since I had been there). Their prices were still horrible, though.

Nice. I just noticed the other day that my local Best Buy here in NYC has added a stand-alone kiosk for Blu-ray movies, in addition to the Blu-ray software section and two Blu-ray demo set-ups in the TV area. They've also been putting big-name Blu-ray titles in the "New Releases" shelves alongside regular DVDs.

Which store in NYC? I noticed the one on 86th street two equal small sections of both BD and HD-DVD.

The sad thing is... this is much more reasonable then saying HD DVD would ever win.

I have posted numerous times asking people to tell me what HD DVD has that it can use to over take and win. Nobody has EVER taken me up on it. :rolleyes: Usually the answers are as pathetic as this.

What about these :p

Mytical TL51GB Disc

Mythical $199 or $99 Walmart "cheapo-branded" HD-DVD

Ultimate Martix Collection - sway fence sitters

HD-DVD Porn

What about these :p

Mytical TL51GB Disc

Mythical $199 or $99 Walmart "cheapo-branded" HD-DVD

Ultimate Martix Collection - sway fence sitters

HD-DVD Porn
****... I forgot about the porno. Its making huge waves. Tee hee... tee hee hee. :rolleyes: You notice once again, I get no answers.. wonder why? :p

So, the real point of your post is to try to incite a flame thread. People like myself who own HD-DVD but not Blu Ray get annoyed with fanboy rantings like this (which aren't even based in reality), and posts like yours only serve to steel both "sides" and antagonize people.

What you should have posted was something saying how great it was that so many people were at Fry's buying high-def discs such as PotC and the Matrix. I think you'll find that garners a much more positive response than flamebait BS.

No, the point of my post was not to incite a flame thread or to antagonize anyone. This is the Blu-ray software forum. If you only own HD DVD and not Blu-ray I have to ask why you re reading AND posting in this forum? Is it me or you that wishes to incite argument? I happen to own both formats and will be happy to supply you with a digital picture of my collection if the link to DVD Spot below isn't sufficient. I am not a fanboy (funny I was accused of being an HD DVD fanboy not that long ago). I am simply reporting a personal experience. It is a totally subjective experience and it is the reality in my neck of the woods (as I indicated in the original post "...if this location is any indication..."

I didn't intend on offending anyone and I don't need anyone to tell me what to think and to post. Maybe your aim is to start an argument and get the thread closed? Most of the discussion so far has been reasonable and level-headed.

@ CC last night in Austin POTC DMC was sold out, Matrix was sitting on the shelves - about 5 copies at least. That's one store's reality LOL. To be fair shelf space was about equal for both and COTBP was in stock. I picked up apocalypto with both pirates on the way from amazon and Blood Diamond on the way 6/5

****... I forgot about the porno. Its making huge waves. Tee hee... tee hee hee. :rolleyes: You notice once again, I get no answers.. wonder why? :p

At this point, I don't see a single reason why a fence-sitter would chose HD-DVD over blu-ray especially with the prices coming down. The panasonic with 5 movies is a steal and it will probably be $499 MSRP this christmas, with $399 street. Blu-ray has so many advantages to HD-DVD, the only advantage HD-DVD has is price but that is narrowing quickly:

PS3

Studio support

More Blockbusters

50GB

Reliable hardware

Less Disc problems

Scratch Resistant Disc

I was disappointed to see Fry's pricing all of 5/22's catalog HD-DVD's at 21.99. Typically they've been pricing Uni disc which list for 29.95 at 19.99.

40YOV, Smokey & The Bandit and Skeleton Key were all 21.99.

Oh well, that will just keep me from impulse buying and keep all my HD business with Amazon.

How bad is it when the cheapest Blu-Ray player is around 3 times higher than the cheapest HD-DVD player and Blu-Ray is still outselling HD-DVD by leaps and bounds? The cheaper player strategy isn't going to win this war. It will become a non-issue within the next 10 months. I am speculating (but it might be confirmed some place) that there will be $299 Blu-Ray players by Christmas '07 and $199 players within 5 months after that. Especially with Sony's ability to produce more Blu-laser diodes (or whatever they're called) than they had originally expected.

Remember, this time last year, we were being told by the HD-DVD crew that BD50 wasn't even a reality.


Funai's announcement this week makes this really plausible by Jan '08

What about these :p

Mytical TL51GB Disc

Mythical $199 or $99 Walmart "cheapo-branded" HD-DVD

Ultimate Martix Collection - sway fence sitters

HD-DVD Porn

By the time the cheapo HD-DVD players come out the Blu-Ray player's will have Cheapo's at $299ish (Funai)
I'd think Pirates sways more than matrix. Pirates DMC is a new movie being released, matrix has been on DVD for years. Also Matrix WILL be out on Blu-Ray; Pirates will not be out on HD-DVD unless it wins
There is announced support from the porn industry for Blu-Ray.

Care to try again?

The sad thing is... this is much more reasonable then saying HD DVD would ever win.

I have posted numerous times asking people to tell me what HD DVD has that it can use to over take and win. Nobody has EVER taken me up on it. :rolleyes: Usually the answers are as pathetic as this.

How about these:

1. HD DVD does not need to spend $2B in subsidies to sell 1M movie disks!

2. HD DVD can use current DVD production facilities, thereby making it much more cost effective solution.

3. In terms of PQ and AQ HD DVD can match anything offered by BD, in terms of interactivity, so far BD cannot match HD DVD. The best titles on both formats are equally capable of getting 5/5 for audio and video from professional reviewers. So, if performance is the same for PQ and AQ, the better technology is the one that is more cost effective and AND has features the other does not - like IME (PiP).

4. HD DVD combo disks makes it easier for general folks to transition from SD to HD. If all new releases were combos and priced the same as DVD, we'd see much faster adoption....most people have multiple players today, and at least one is a DVD. They do not want to buy 2 disks...

Remember even with almost total studio support and hardware support, BD market penetration is very low, and since the start of the year basically flat. But despite the lack of studio and hardware support, HD DVD has been able to hold it's own so far. When you are the more efficient and effective technology - offering the better value all you need to do is survive in the short term, because you opposition cannot continue to spend at the same rate in terms of marketing and subsidies....hence why the BDA is so eager to call the war over, while knowing that HD DVD has around 40% of the market. No one will call it quits with 30-40% of the market. After all the PS3 has wayyyy below 30% of the next gen game console market - yet no one says that Sony will call it quits there....

HD DVD market share has to come below 20% on a consistent weekly basis for this format war to be decided in BDs favor.

I do agree that BD will exist as a movie format for the PS3, like UMD is for PSP. Just check out the standalone player sales between BD and HD DVD players on Amazon for reference....

So BD will probably lose as a general movie format, but if Sony can sell enough PS3 consoles, studios will continue to put out titles. The future of hardware IMO is going to be dual format players....JMHO.

... the only advantage HD-DVD has is price but that is narrowing quickly.

Well, to be honest with you, I don't think there is even a price advantage any longer. Many Blu-ray titles have been available through various promotions for prices ridiculously cheaper than HD DVD and hardware prices are obviously coming down to earth. I know how some people are feeling if they made the initial decision to back HD DVD because I was one of them. But it just comes down to accepting reality. The Matrix films were the only real "big guns" that have been announced as exclusive (for the time being anyway) and Blu-ray is still cleaning up wherever I look. You can bet that Sony will be making a very exciting announcement regarding a certain nerd in blue and red as well as black tights fairly soon. I don't wanna piss anyone off but it really seems obvious to me where this thing is going.

And Plazman, those are fair arguments you have made many, many times before. I used to agree with that point-of view. But now they are falling on deaf ears... I just don't subscribe to them any longer. The combo disc is dead for all intents and purposes. And for cryin' out loud, when will you guys admit that there are thousands of us that purchased a PS3 to watch Blu-ray discs? In my home, it IS a standalone player. How silly. Semantics.

At this point, I don't see a single reason why a fence-sitter would chose HD-DVD over blu-ray especially with the prices coming down. The panasonic with 5 movies is a steal and it will probably be $499 MSRP this christmas, with $399 street. Blu-ray has so many advantages to HD-DVD, the only advantage HD-DVD has is price but that is narrowing quickly:

PS3

Studio support

More Blockbusters

50GB

Reliable hardware

Less Disc problems

Scratch Resistant Disc
That sums it up pretty well.. you left out a few lil things but good job. Now if someone would just try to answer it for HD DVD. I mean if you cant answer this question how can you expect anyone to buy your format?

How about these:

1. HD DVD does not need to spend $2B in subsidies to sell 1M movie disks!

2. HD DVD can use current DVD production facilities, thereby making it much more cost effective solution.

3. In terms of PQ and AQ HD DVD can match anything offered by BD, in terms of interactivity, so far BD cannot match HD DVD. The best titles on both formats are equally capable of getting 5/5 for audio and video from professional reviewers. So, if performance is the same for PQ and AQ, the better technology is the one that is more cost effective and AND has features the other does not - like IME (PiP).

4. HD DVD combo disks makes it easier for general folks to transition from SD to HD. If all new releases were combos and priced the same as DVD, we'd see much faster adoption....most people have multiple players today, and at least one is a DVD. They do not want to buy 2 disks...

Remember even with almost total studio support and hardware support, BD market penetration is very low, and since the start of the year basically flat. But despite the lack of studio and hardware support, HD DVD has been able to hold it's own so far. When you are the more efficient and effective technology - offering the better value all you need to do is survive in the short term, because you opposition cannot continue to spend at the same rate in terms of marketing and subsidies....hence why the BDA is so eager to call the war over, while knowing that HD DVD has around 40% of the market. No one will call it quits with 30-40% of the market. After all the PS3 has wayyyy below 30% of the next gen game console market - yet no one says that Sony will call it quits there....

HD DVD market share has to come below 20% on a consistent weekly basis for this format war to be decided in BDs favor.

I do agree that BD will exist as a movie format for the PS3, like UMD is for PSP. Just check out the standalone player sales between BD and HD DVD players on Amazon for reference....

So BD will probably lose as a general movie format, but if Sony can sell enough PS3 consoles, studios will continue to put out titles. The future of hardware IMO is going to be dual format players....JMHO.
I would have to say your first three have nothing to do with the consumer buying your product. They, I and most people outside of here dont care or even know that. I would say the combo discs hurt them... they seem to be backing off. I fail to see one of your points that would make a consumer want to buy your format. I mean saying "we can keep up with blu ray in PQ and SQ" is not really something to brag about and lets get real, Blu Ray will get its interactive features. The only thing you got is interactive features for the time and that will fade. Hardley a reason to buy into a format. All IMO though, of course.

Oh and the numbers dont have to get to anything for Blu Ray to win. If Circuit City, Best Buy, Frys and all the others get tired of the under performing HD DVD it will be gone. We all know in reality Blu Ray is getting the B&M love and shelf space.

That was really the only response I ever got to that question that was serious. I respect you for posting it.

How about these:

1. HD DVD does not need to spend $2B in subsidies to sell 1M movie disks!

2. HD DVD can use current DVD production facilities, thereby making it much more cost effective solution.

3. In terms of PQ and AQ HD DVD can match anything offered by BD, in terms of interactivity, so far BD cannot match HD DVD. The best titles on both formats are equally capable of getting 5/5 for audio and video from professional reviewers. So, if performance is the same for PQ and AQ, the better technology is the one that is more cost effective and AND has features the other does not - like IME (PiP).

4. HD DVD combo disks makes it easier for general folks to transition from SD to HD. If all new releases were combos and priced the same as DVD, we'd see much faster adoption....most people have multiple players today, and at least one is a DVD. They do not want to buy 2 disks...

Remember even with almost total studio support and hardware support, BD market penetration is very low, and since the start of the year basically flat. But despite the lack of studio and hardware support, HD DVD has been able to hold it's own so far. When you are the more efficient and effective technology - offering the better value all you need to do is survive in the short term, because you opposition cannot continue to spend at the same rate in terms of marketing and subsidies....hence why the BDA is so eager to call the war over, while knowing that HD DVD has around 40% of the market. No one will call it quits with 30-40% of the market. After all the PS3 has wayyyy below 30% of the next gen game console market - yet no one says that Sony will call it quits there....

HD DVD market share has to come below 20% on a consistent weekly basis for this format war to be decided in BDs favor.

I do agree that BD will exist as a movie format for the PS3, like UMD is for PSP. Just check out the standalone player sales between BD and HD DVD players on Amazon for reference....

So BD will probably lose as a general movie format, but if Sony can sell enough PS3 consoles, studios will continue to put out titles. The future of hardware IMO is going to be dual format players....JMHO.


1) Toshiba's subsidies may not total 2B$, but they're growing daily.

2) True, but BD is a new tech that will mature over time.

3) Not gonna matter by winter...

4) Combo discs do anything but sell and up until a bit ago, they wouldn't play either. Why would they be priced the same as DVD's? Are they currently? No they are not. They're ridiculously overpriced and no one wants them.

My advice.. if you're gonna point out the current limitations of one format, when a future work around is in progress (see #3), then don't be so quick to forget the current situation of your so called 'benefits' (see #4)


And to sum up the arguement with... because of all this... BD will lose the format war and only exist as UMD is just flat out in denial.

And how about this food for thought. I have never once seen a retailer with more HD-DVD shelf space than BD. Not ONCE. (And I know someone will be along to say otherwise, and if they do... I could care less. You're the exception to the obviously seen and proven rule)

It doesn't matter what people buy if the retailers don't sell it. People know there is a war, and statements like 3 to 1 shelf space in favor of BD is a huge thing in swaying someone's opinion.


ETA:: and haven't you been slightly in tune with the fact that Amazon ratings don't matter?

Hey lets keep the rhetoric in check so that the MODS don't close the thread down. Please.

Hey, I loved HD DVD since I bought my HD A1 last summer. But I have to be honest with myself and believe what eyes are seeing. There were alot of Blu-ray discs moving yesterday and I think the ratio of sales this summer will soon be 5 to 1. The department staff said that it is no contest at this pointand they are there every day. This is gonna impact the shelf space devoted to the formats and unfortunately it doesn't bode well for my old friend, HD DVD.

I guess the real numbers which are showing a 60/40 split right now and which also shows HD-DVD with a big upward trend have nothing to do with reality.

They must have added the HD DVD to a rack later in the day because it was no where to be found when I was looking at the adverts. Did you notice the amount of space devoted to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD though? Nevertheless, Frys seems to know something the other brick and mortar retailers don't.... so I am rewarding them with my patronage.

It was installed on the same day the Blu-Ray a-frame was installed and both were done at the exact same time. Both have been there since last Saturday when the anniversary sale started. I was there when they were putting them up.

No, the point of my post was not to incite a flame thread or to antagonize anyone.

So why did you feel the need to temper your excitement with Blu Ray by tearing down HD-DVD? I read all the HD format forums because I like the picture and sound the new disc formats have to offer. It's unfortunate it's split like it is, but I'm so sick of reading people tearing down one format or the other I could scream. Many of the posts I read on the BD/HD-DVD forums make the videogame forum wars seem thought-provoking and mature.

I apologize if it wasn't your intent to stir the pot, but after reading the 1,000th post of the afternoon implying only idiots buy X format, I had to say something.

I did not see any HD DVD A frame when I was there. Is it possible it was there and I didn't see it? Sure. So refrain from calling anyone a fool. It clearly violates the forum rules and I have reported the post. You would have to admit that Blu-ray has substantially more support at that location otherwise well maybe you are just looking for confrontation.

So why did you feel the need to temper your excitement with Blu Ray by tearing down HD-DVD? I read all the HD format forums because I like the picture and sound the new disc formats have to offer. It's unfortunate it's split like it is, but I'm so sick of reading people tearing down one format or the other I could scream. Many of the posts I read on the BD/HD-DVD forums make the videogame forum wars seem thought-provoking and mature.

I apologize if it wasn't your intent to stir the pot, but after reading the 1,000th post of the afternoon implying only idiots buy X format, I had to say something.

Agreed.

I did not see any HD DVD A frame when I was there. Is it possible it was there and I didn't see it? Sure. So don't call me a fool. I should report your post. You would have to admit that Blu-ray has substantially more support at that location otherwise well maybe you are just looking for confrontation.


I don't see how. It is right across from the Blu-Ray one. About four foot away just on the other side of the two flat screens. Both are the same size.

How about keeping your supposed facts in check then. Outright lies don't play well with me.

I see you quickly edited your post after you re-thought your remarks but you are still calling me a liar. I don't know how many ways I can say that I did not see an HD DVD A frame? This is silly. Have you even thought for a minute that prhaps it was moved temporarily?Unless ogf course you slept there all week. I haven't denied that it was there... I just didn't see it. So at this point what else do you feel the need to be argumentative about?

You are playing the fool. Like it wasn't there. I stand by what I said but realized with all your post in this thread that you are a trouble-maker and just looking for confrontation. Just stop lying about this format thing because it will play out the way it will play out without your lies.

Locked in 3, 2, ...

I think he wants the thread closed. No other explanation. Time to report again.

What about these :p

Mytical TL51GB Disc

Mythical $199 or $99 Walmart "cheapo-branded" HD-DVD

Ultimate Martix Collection - sway fence sitters

HD-DVD Porn
I'll add a few if you dont mind...
-Better PQ (Amir told me VC-1 is always better)
-Better AQ (DD+ is better than DD)
-More capacity (BD only has "a few" titles on a BD50)
-You cant "boil" a BD
-Freeze ups on a Toshiba are a welcomed intermission to use the bathroom or make some popcorn
-HD-DVD will have 800+ titles by the end of the year
-HD-DVD is better cause Robert from VE says it is.

I give Plazman props for always giving well laid out arguements, even if I or this side don't agree. You never disrspect (that I see), never flame, and are always thoughtful.

Re: your points, I think you might be the only person outside of the studios who thinks combo disks are a good idea:) I agree, they make business sense. But consumers so far hate them.

I'll add a few if you dont mind...
-Better PQ (Amir told me VC-1 is always better)
-Better AQ (DD+ is better than DD)
-More capacity (BD only has "a few" titles on a BD50)
-You cant "boil" a BD
-Freeze ups on a Toshiba are a welcomed intermission to use the bathroom or make some popcorn
-HD-DVD will have 800+ titles by the end of the year
-HD-DVD is better cause Robert from VE says it is.


lol..... :D

You know, there really is no reason to respond to the HD DVD fanboys that have invaded the thread. They are no better than the Blu-ray fanatics that do the same in the HD DVD forum. If my aim was to cause an argument I would have placed my comments in the other forum.

I guess the real numbers which are showing a 60/40 split right now and which also shows HD-DVD with a big upward trend have nothing to do with reality.
What numbers? I must have missed it. Are you refereing to Amazon? Link please.

plazman

1. i dont know how much toshiba spend. but it aint cheap too

2. you would say hd-dvd prices would be lower. but if we check amazon for example. prices overall are more expensive for hd-dvd discs then for bluray.

3. HD-DVD cant match bluray in PQ. 50gb is more then 30gb. if same master is used and the same encoder . a movie will always look better on bluray then hd-dvd. it is easy math. we already had a great example about this when the guy talked about the nine inch nails hd-dvd and bluray. and about extras? i agree with you on that part. hd-dvd is at this point of time further ahead. but we shall see in december what will happen next.

about professional reviews. were are they? please let me know. because i have never read a profesional review and i seriously hope you dont mean the people at high defdigest. because they give political correct reviews. if that is what you mean profesional then i agree with you.

matrix getting a 5 star review on high def digest for video is just rediculous. it has edge enhachment, halos etc. is that 5 star worthy? no it aint. although i am not a big fan of IGN. it gave the most honest review about the matrix. matrix should have never gotten a 5 star at highdefdigest. but it gave a political correct video score.

4. hd-dvd combos! i hate those! and it seems i am not the only 1. also hd-dvd combos make up for a lot of confusion. if hd-dvd combo was such a great idea then why dont we see all hd-dvds as combos?

Time.