well...I've had this tv for a bit over a week now, the 47 inch. So far I'm extremely pleased, with some exceptions. One...the speakers/subwoofer sounds horrible in some tv shows. I never have the problem on xbox360 or through the HD-DVD A3 player,

ajsnow6234, are you running the HD-A3 into the TX-47 via HDMI? If so, would you be so kind as to disclose firmware version info for both your TX-47 and the HD-A3? (latter is under the Maint->Update menu). I have to wonder if you are the only one who has gotten this to work!? Have you watched an entire movie yet, or just a few minutes? There are posted HDMI handshaking issues with this combination, and I'm about to return my HD-A3 due to lack of a solution (and component video is not a solution).

@new_User, IIRC, compnent can't carry cc info. That's what I was getting at.

Thank you Ace_of_Sevens for your reply.

So if I use HDMI cable then I will get CC or HDMI also cannot carry CC. If this be the case then how do I see HD and also have CC.

Please help.

CC is an NTSC thing. You aren't going to get it with HD unless it's the new CC that HD has.

I bought a Belkin HDMI cable. Still no picture from the PS3.

check the advanced setup options for the video output.

my box from twc was setup to show upconverted output on all channels orignally and 50% of them had lines atop the screen.

its best to have the box show all the content at it native res and had the tv convert it.

i posted this setup way back for the 8300 box


I checked the settings in my box, it only has a setting for 1080I instead of 1080P. Could that be a reason of why a line shows up on the screen, it only does it on certain channels not all them. I just think its the broadcasting from the channel not the TV it self!

ajsnow6234, are you running the HD-A3 into the TX-47 via HDMI? If so, would you be so kind as to disclose firmware version info for both your TX-47 and the HD-A3? (latter is under the Maint->Update menu). I have to wonder if you are the only one who has gotten this to work!? Have you watched an entire movie yet, or just a few minutes? There are posted HDMI handshaking issues with this combination, and I'm about to return my HD-A3 due to lack of a solution (and component video is not a solution).


I've got 5121_1.2.0 on the Tv and on the hd-a3 maint menu it said 1.0/1.1. So i'm assuming i've only got the 1.0

I have watched 300 all the way through and I've also watched Batman Returns (SD) and it is through HDMI. I think i had like one hiccup on the 300 movie, but that was about it. I didn't realize there was actual problems with the dvd player...i'll have to look more into this... I have a friend who has a different tv but same player, and he was just complaining of those issues but he is setup through component

Jley97: there is no standard to broadcast 1080p. Any HDTV you watch over the air or cable will either be 720p scaled up or 1080i de-interlaced.

So far no lockups on "normal" power mode (5 days) - going to switch back over to "E.saver" mode and see if the lock ups return.


TV Lockup =

(1) remote not responding while the TX is on - only way to shut it down is to unplug it or hold down the power button for 10 to 15 seconds for a reboot.
(2) Turning on the th TX after being off for a while, you first get the amber LED then the "W" logo - it goes away and you get no display, amber LED is still on. Same steps above to resolve this issue

:confused:

Im having lockouts with my 42" on an almost daily basis. Whenever I turn on the TV with the remote after a cold boot, it would lockout in less than 1 minute. That is after I start changing channels. I am putting the blame on the remote control. Maybe its sending bad/lockout signals to my TV. :mad:

When I turn on the TV after a cold boot and use the side panel buttons to change the channels, the TV acts perfectly normal. :rolleyes:I'm gonna have to try changing channels with a universal remote to solve my TV lockout problems. The problem is i dont have a universal remote.:mad:

Will a universal remote sending different signals help resolve the lockout problems? :confused:

If anyone have any experience similar to this, please chime in. Thanks.

Jley97: there is no standard to broadcast 1080p. Any HDTV you watch over the air or cable will either be 720p scaled up or 1080i de-interlaced.

hes not ota he has a box. which is upscaling his content and poorly i might add...


jley: what model box do you have ?

jley: what model box do you have ?

I cannot find a Model number on the box. But the box is a motorola model dct

I cannot find a Model number on the box. But the box is a motorola model dct

go here http://broadband.motorola.com/consumers/products/DCT3400/downloads/DCT3400_User_Guide.pdf

pages 8 and 9

Im having lockouts with my 42" on an almost daily basis. Whenever I turn on the TV with the remote after a cold boot, it would lockout in less than 1 minute. That is after I start changing channels. I am putting the blame on the remote control. Maybe its sending bad/lockout signals to my TV. :mad:

When I turn on the TV after a cold boot and use the side panel buttons to change the channels, the TV acts perfectly normal. :rolleyes:I'm gonna have to try changing channels with a universal remote to solve my TV lockout problems. The problem is i dont have a universal remote.:mad:

Will a universal remote sending different signals help resolve the lockout problems? :confused:

If anyone have any experience similar to this, please chime in. Thanks.

beefy6969

I have tried that as well with no success. I bought the TV from Electronics expo - waiting for a service tech to come by and look at the TX. Most likely will return the TX. I have previous Westing house LCD's without issue. I am very disappointed with this unit:mad:

Well I've had the 47" for a few months now and I thought I'd list some of my issues for kicks and giggles, ranked in order of annoyingness from least to greatest:

5. Hard to describe, but over-the-air HD channels have a strange problem where certain layers of audio sound like they were recorded a long way from the microphone. For example, the voice-over of a commercial will sound like the man stood about 10 feet away from his microphone even though the music and other people talking in the same commercial sound normal. Then on the next commercial, maybe the music will sound far away, while everything else sounds normal. This is definitely the most confusing problem I have with it; I can't think of a possible cause. It only affects one audio layer at a time. This happens infrequently, but a 10-second reboot seems to fix. It's happened only two or three times.

4. Over-the-air HD channels will often start lagging the video behind the audio. Changing the channel and then back fixes this, but only for an indefinite amount of time before happening again. Happens about every other day.

3. Over any input except coaxial, there will be soft popping noise from the speakers very regularly every couple seconds. 10-second reboot is the only way to fix. Used to happen a couple times a day, but has grown less frequent.

2. Over HDMI-based sources (upconverting DVD, Xbox 360), there will be sudden occasions where the audio begins stuttering HORRIBLY and only goes away after a ten-second reboot. Unplugging the cables, turning the TV off and on, etc. doesn't work. Only started about a month ago, but happens once about every three days.

1. The dreaded lockup. Suddenly, the on-screen display will freeze on whatever it was on, and will not respond to any button presses on the remote or the TV, except for the TV power button doing a 10-second reboot. Whatever source is running through the TV continues to display just fine. I don't use the E. Saver mode. This problem occurs mostly randomly, but seems to happen often about 10 seconds after I turn the TV on. Overall, I probably have an average of 1 lockup per day.



I would RMA it, but after all that trouble, the odds are I'd get another one that sucks sent to me. Westinghouse really needs to fix this model of TV.

Carlp, the problem with compiling a list of calibrations like that (aside from the fact that they all contradict each other), is that a calibration is only valid for the specific piece of equipment that was in use and for the specific room conditions that were present for that user (such as ambient light levels). I see you quoted me 3 times, and I now use different settings again because my dvd player has changed. I now use 56 brightness / 67 contrast which is pretty radically different from before because the new player handles black levels differently than the old. This tv also seems to get confused about colorspace at times as well. Really the only calibration advice anybody can give is to tell the person asking to buy a copy of Avia or DVE and learn how to set the levels properly themselves.

Oh, and a general comment for all of those crying "is anybody happy with this tv!?".... I have been here from day one and an owner from the first month they were on market. I am totally satisfied with the performance I got for my dollar and to date my set has been 100% trouble free. Syncing and dropout issues I've had in the past were the fault of the equipment being connected, not the tv. I will say I see the text ghosting problem some folks have complained about using the PC VGA connection, but this is mostly because VGA falls down pretty badly at such a high resolution. You'll see ghosting like this using VGA on a very high resolution PC monitor too in many cases. First thing is to try to re-perform the auto ajdust since it doesn't seem to ever get it on the first try. Of course you can always just use a DVI > HDMI adapter to send your desktop digitally and the problem is gone.

Carlp, the problem with compiling a list of calibrations like that (aside from the fact that they all contradict each other), is that a calibration is only valid for the specific piece of equipment that was in use and for the specific room conditions that were present for that user (such as ambient light levels). I see you quoted me 3 times, and I now use different settings again because my dvd player has changed. I now use 56 brightness / 67 contrast which is pretty radically different from before because the new player handles black levels differently than the old. This tv also seems to get confused about colorspace at times as well. Really the only calibration advice anybody can give is to tell the person asking to buy a copy of Avia or DVE and learn how to set the levels properly themselves.

your right its all relative. but many of those can give someone a good starting point no matter what their situation. better than out of the box anyway.

i plan to get the calibration dvd/s and posting my findings as well.

Oh, and a general comment for all of those crying "is anybody happy with this tv!?".... I have been here from day one and an owner from the first month they were on market. I am totally satisfied with the performance I got for my dollar and to date my set has been 100% trouble free. .

many thanks to your input as well.
i have been a very very happy owner for 4months with no issues.

Carlp, the problem with compiling a list of calibrations like that (aside from the fact that they all contradict each other), is that a calibration is only valid for the specific piece of equipment that was in use and for the specific room conditions that were present for that user (such as ambient light levels). I see you quoted me 3 times, and I now use different settings again because my dvd player has changed. I now use 56 brightness / 67 contrast which is pretty radically different from before because the new player handles black levels differently than the old. This tv also seems to get confused about colorspace at times as well. Really the only calibration advice anybody can give is to tell the person asking to buy a copy of Avia or DVE and learn how to set the levels properly themselves.

Oh, and a general comment for all of those crying "is anybody happy with this tv!?".... I have been here from day one and an owner from the first month they were on market. I am totally satisfied with the performance I got for my dollar and to date my set has been 100% trouble free. Syncing and dropout issues I've had in the past were the fault of the equipment being connected, not the tv. I will say I see the text ghosting problem some folks have complained about using the PC VGA connection, but this is mostly because VGA falls down pretty badly at such a high resolution. You'll see ghosting like this using VGA on a very high resolution PC monitor too in many cases. First thing is to try to re-perform the auto ajdust since it doesn't seem to ever get it on the first try. Of course you can always just use a DVI > HDMI adapter to send your desktop digitally and the problem is gone.

Xcalibur_255
Have ever experienced any lockups? I'm at the point where I just want this TX out of my house. It's that bad. I would not recommend this TX to anyone at this point.

Carlp, the problem with compiling a list of calibrations like that (aside from the fact that they all contradict each other), is that a calibration is only valid for the specific piece of equipment that was in use and for the specific room conditions that were present for that user (such as ambient light levels). I see you quoted me 3 times, and I now use different settings again because my dvd player has changed. I now use 56 brightness / 67 contrast which is pretty radically different from before because the new player handles black levels differently than the old. This tv also seems to get confused about colorspace at times as well. Really the only calibration advice anybody can give is to tell the person asking to buy a copy of Avia or DVE and learn how to set the levels properly themselves.

Oh, and a general comment for all of those crying "is anybody happy with this tv!?".... I have been here from day one and an owner from the first month they were on market. I am totally satisfied with the performance I got for my dollar and to date my set has been 100% trouble free. Syncing and dropout issues I've had in the past were the fault of the equipment being connected, not the tv. I will say I see the text ghosting problem some folks have complained about using the PC VGA connection, but this is mostly because VGA falls down pretty badly at such a high resolution. You'll see ghosting like this using VGA on a very high resolution PC monitor too in many cases. First thing is to try to re-perform the auto ajdust since it doesn't seem to ever get it on the first try. Of course you can always just use a DVI > HDMI adapter to send your desktop digitally and the problem is gone.

I have also been one of the original purchasers of this TV in this thread and I've been very happy with the TV and it's quality for the money. All of my devices are connected HDMI and I only use a HD cable box (8300HDC from TWC which sucks) and a DVD upconvert player. I do not use the OTA connection. Audio feeds are done separately to my receiver via optical.

As for settings, since my devices haven't changed, the only real adjustment I've done since I posted my settings was reducing the backlight to 40, but because of the windows in my room, that's as low as I want to go.

I am done with this TX after owning it for about 28 days with the constant lockups. I am returning it on Friday. I went back to the vendor where I purchased the TX and after several attempts to get the vendor to send a tech out to look at the set - no success (they never called to setup an appointment) I went to the store today and expressed to the manager I was not satisfied with the performance of this set. I agree for the budget price you get a nice picture, but the constant lockups are not acceptable to me. I am just going to see if I can pick something else out. :(

Anyone have suggestions?:confused:

I just got the tv about a week ago, and I've been very happy with it so far. I searched the thread about the subwoofer question, which others have had. Mine seems permanently grayed out, and in 'off' mode, with no option to turn it on. I have a Sept. firmware issue, but is the subwoofer not even on the tv? or it's permanently disabled?

I just got the tv about a week ago, and I've been very happy with it so far. I searched the thread about the subwoofer question, which others have had. Mine seems permanently grayed out, and in 'off' mode, with no option to turn it on. I have a Sept. firmware issue, but is the subwoofer not even on the tv? or it's permanently disabled?

thats strange. mine works, its in the tv

thats strange. mine works, its in the tv

Hmm, really? How does it sound?

When you go to audio, is there an option to toggle it on/off, or is it grayed out?

EDIT** OK, nvm, looks like they deleted the subwoofer option from the sept. models onward. Why?!

People need to post some pictures of this set(saw a few so far), really want to see it in action. :(

People need to post some pictures of this set(saw a few so far), really want to see it in action. :(

ill see what i can do

I've got 5121_1.2.0 on the Tv and on the hd-a3 maint menu it said 1.0/1.1. So i'm assuming i've only got the 1.0
I have watched 300 all the way through and I've also watched Batman Returns (SD) and it is through HDMI. I think i had like one hiccup on the 300 movie, but that was about it.
Thanx, ajsnow6234 ... it would appear that the Sept firmware (at least I think that's what you are saying) works with the HD-A3. Note there is a more specific thread on this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=944789
Thanx for the info ...

I asked this of Westinghouse: Is it correct that the June 2007 firmware for this model disables the SPDIF optical output when the input source is HDMI?

Their reply: This is true on all our models. The HDMI jacks are HDCP compliant. The set cannot pass through protected content.


Other posts here have confirmed that, although it does not seem to have been an issue in the original firmware.

WTH is the point in having SPDIF optical output then!!!!????
I'm sorry for the language but that's bullshit. I just bought the Pioneer Surround Sound System (HTS-GS1), because it was on sale and I don't want to lose picture and switch to the component connections so I wanted to use the optical out on the TV but apparently I can't! Is there a way to go back to the old firmware sothis connection isn't lost?

WTF is the point in having SPDIF optical output then!!!!????
I'm sorry for the language but that's bullshit. I just bought the Pioneer Surround Sound System (HTS-GS1), because it was on sale and I don't want to lose picture and switch to the component connections so I wanted to use the optical out on the TV but apparently I can't! Is there a way to go back to the old firmware sothis connection isn't lost?

So you're saying you want to do HDMI in from a video source directly to the TV then run audio out from the TV to the receiver?

I don't mean to be rude but it sounds to me like you bought the wrong equipment. Don't blame Westinghouse for your setup not being wired properly. That SPDIF output should be for the built in OTA tuner and that's all.

My TX47 is going back to the store tommorrow. I am done with this set. To all the rest of you I hope you have better luck.

So you're saying you want to do HDMI in from a video source directly to the TV then run audio out from the TV to the receiver?

I don't mean to be rude but it sounds to me like you bought the wrong equipment. Don't blame Westinghouse for your setup not being wired properly. That SPDIF output should be for the built in OTA tuner and that's all.

I agree, it SHOULD be used for the OTA tuner, but because it doesn't carry 5.1 sound from the OTA tuner it IS completely useless.

I called Westinghouse again about my PS3 troubles and the overscan issues. After some rather pointless troubleshooting (she had me rescan my channels after doing a factory reset and suggested I plug the PS3 into a different circuit than the TV), she told me to call Best Buy for an RMA. I have done so. They are sending a guy to my house to work on the TV on Tuesday.

Does everyone else overscan like this? The top and bottom 5% are missing. HD is fine, but this is what happens to SDTV widescreen, at least on component.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/Ace_of_Sevens/100_0395.jpg

Sounds like what I found with my VGA hookup. Check out my previous posts and pictures in great details describing the problem



CHrisCHu, did you ever come up with any resolution to this? I discovered it on my own, and e-mailed Westinghouse support about it last night (no response yet), and was searching around the net for the problem when I stumbled upon your posts here. IF it's a newer firmware "feature", then I'd love to defeat it (by downgrading firmware, or petitioning WH to stop trying to be cute with their technology and just stick to the basics) and get the true 1:1 pixel mapping from DVI.. but I can't seem to find any firmwares available to end users or instructions on upgrading/downgrading. I read somewhere before I bought the set that the USB port on the side was for firmware upgrades / service.

My setup:
Westinghouse TX-47"
September 2007 firmware
Connected to HTPC running debian + mythtv
Geforce FX5200 video card (MSI)
DVI output, converted to HDMI using 15' cable (heavily shielded)

I found the problem absolutely horrible on blue text against a black background. I took some pictures to dramatically illustrate the problem (attached):

1. My cruddy old Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop, as a comparison for what an LCD is supposed to look like.
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/InspironLaptop_small.jpg

2. Westinghouse - 1920x1080 (info shows 1080p resolution, vid card reports 1920x1080, using DVI->HDMI cable, 60hz)
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/WestingHouse_small.jpg

Ridiculously bad! If I can't get "resolution" on this issue before my 30-day returns policy expires, it's going straight back even though I cut up the box to get it out.

-Burgerleg

Ok, now I am officially freaking out. I just returned a Polaroid 42" and have one of these Westinghouse 42" sets on the way. I bought this one because of all the positive comments about picture quality and I intend to use it mainly as a computer display, so most of the problems shouldn't affect me.

Now it's starting to look like the TV's with the Sept firmware are using a completely different internal panel, based on the complaints of image quality with HDMI ->DVI using a PC.

Can anyone with a pre-Sept. firmware based unit please put up some close up photos of the screen so that they may be compared with those of the Sept firmware units?

I hope I manage to get an earlier unit, or at least one that looks better than the Polaroid I just returned. If they have switched to inferior guts without changing the model number of the set, this info needs to be placed in huge letters at the beginning of the thread, and possibly pressure brought to bear on the company. Bait and switch is not only highly unethical, but it's illegal! I sincerely hope this hasn't happened here.

Bought a TX-42 about three weeks ago. No problems, but I have been interested in some of conversations here about the USB service port and lack of firmware upgrades.

So out of curiosity has anybody been adventurous enough to hook up a laptop to the USB port? Would you at least see some crypticly named files? Any volunteers?

i'd be interested in the firmware updates too.

I might buy the 42 inch this weekend, although I have been on here for the past 2 weeks posting that.

nothing for download on the website, but word is on here that Westinghouse does not currently offer them.

I called Westinghouse again about my PS3 troubles and the overscan issues. After some rather pointless troubleshooting (she had me rescan my channels after doing a factory reset and suggested I plug the PS3 into a different circuit than the TV), she told me to call Best Buy for an RMA. I have done so. They are sending a guy to my house to work on the TV on Tuesday.

Does everyone else overscan like this? The top and bottom 5% are missing. HD is fine, but this is what happens to SDTV widescreen, at least on component.
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/Ace_of_Sevens/100_0395.jpg

You are using the picture setting "standard" correct?

my wife has a radeon 8500 (with my TX42), and using the 28AWG hdmi dvi cable the max resolution it'll allow is 1280x1024. After that nothing works, though 1920x1080 interlaced works. It looks like garbage though.

okay since typing up to this part, my wife changed the display settings to 1920x1080 and the text looks sharp now. However, when I go to info and in the CCC it still says 30hz. Any ideas here?

i'd be interested in the firmware updates too.

I might buy the 42 inch this weekend, although I have been on here for the past 2 weeks posting that.

nothing for download on the website, but word is on here that Westinghouse does not currently offer them.

i believe the only way to get firmware updates is to have a Westinghouse technician come out and do it for you.

Can someone please put my mind at ease and tell me if they are able to get clean 1:1 small text displays at 1920x1080p with HDMI->DVI on a Sept build 42"?


Just for kicks, I went down to BB to play with the 47" TX they have on display. It seems to be doing well and it's an April build unit. Should help to raise some hopes that the units can;t be too bad if the demo can withstand "on all day, every day" conditions for this long now.

The pixels making up the menu text on this one looked nice and well delineated. How does it look on the Sept builds?

Thanks.

ours is an april build and white text, like desktop icons have this rainbow look to it on dvi/hdmi.

CC is an NTSC thing. You aren't going to get it with HD unless it's the new CC that HD has.

I bought a Belkin HDMI cable. Still no picture from the PS3.

During my troubleshooting of my PS3 problems, I noticed the same "problem". I think it turned out it was trying to pull from one of the other HDMI ports than the one I was plugged in to.

I had the auto-switch feature turned on, and it would detect me connecting/disconnecting the plug, but would immediately decide that it wasn't getting a signal.

Finally went through the menu and selected the appropriate HDMI port, then it worked.

/ Of course that didn't fix the image ghosting; neither did getting a new set. I'm going back to Best Buy for a refund tomorrow. Probably going to switch over to the Samsung LN-T4065F.

technically BB only has the 4066f...i have both and the fact that vga is sharper on the samsung than dvi is on the westy is just insanity...unfortunately for me I didn't get the extended warranty so I am stuck with the westy..even the wife can tell how bad the hdmi/dvi connection is and she's no an av freak like I am.

So out of curiosity has anybody been adventurous enough to hook up a laptop to the USB port? Would you at least see some crypticly named files? Any volunteers?

I don't know if I'd risk plugging in a laptop without knowing for sure whether or not the Westinghouse expects a drive or expects to be hooked up as a drive. I think the set has a female plug, so you'd need a male-male cable to plug it into a laptop.

My guess would be that to upgrade the firmware, you'd put some kind of .bin firmware file on a jump drive (fat16 formatted?), plug it into the westinghouse, and either power it on, or power it on while holding one or more of the other buttons to get it to start up the firmware upgrade "mode."

-Burgerleg

One of the people I spoke with on the phone told me about the firmware. You have to actually connect a computer to the USB port and I'm not sure of the rest of the procedure. As to the other questions, yes I am overrscanning in stndard and have tried manually switching HDMI. Occasionaly, it will recognize the port, especially if I hot-plug, but gets no picture.

I also noticed (as mentioned before) the blurry red text effect, and rainbowing effect on white desktop icons, though the latter improves by turning off cleartype. Strangely this is the reverse of the vga problem with red, where it looks blocky. Is it due to the video card not being hdcp or w/e compliant that disallows 1080p resolution. It is technically capable up to 20xx X 15xx resolution so I don't think thats the problem. I even updated to the most recent ati drivers.

Just for kicks, I went down to BB to play with the 47" TX they have on display. It seems to be doing well and it's an April build unit. Should help to raise some hopes that the units can;t be too bad if the demo can withstand "on all day, every day" conditions for this long now.

The pixels making up the menu text on this one looked nice and well delineated. How does it look on the Sept builds?


On the model I have (TX-47, Sept 7, 2007 firmware), I can't really tell if OSD/menu text suffers the same problem as the picture I posted earlier, particularly because the OSD text is almost white-on-black, and I don't see the problem very well with white-on-black (but it's HUGE with blue-on-black). How did you test the April build unit at BB? Without doing a true apples-to-apples comparison, the green "arrows" on the menus look ok to me on the Sept build, as does the white-on-black text.. I think I'd see some residual "pixel dust" around them if they had the same problem that I saw with the blue-on-black text coming from the DVI->HDMI cable on the PC.

Incidentally, I did some more testing, and have more photos to share...

This test was done using a checkerboard pattern, tiled onto the background in xfce4 (debian, Xorg). I had 4 total patterns, each a 2x2 image consisting of:

XO
OX

(where "X" is the pixel color.. in hex RGB, either "FFFFFF", "FF0000", "00FF00", or "0000FF", i.e. white, pure red, pure green, pure blue, respectively.)

The results were astounding... I didn't realize it before, but on LCD displays (most lcd displays?), there are actually two rows of subpixels for every row of pixels displayed.. maybe they did this to get square result pixels..? So a normal white pixel gets displayed as:
RGB
RGB

Anyway.. the first image is a white checkerboard. It looks *almost* as you'd expect (note that I'm showing BOTH rows of subpixels for each row of pixels, because it's significant when you get to the colored checkerboards..).

White checkerboard.. subpixels look pretty good, except the slight blue in the bottom-right corner of the black pixel in the checkerboard.. I didn't even notice it with my naked eye:

RGB RGB
RGB bRGB
RGB RGB
bRGB bRGB
RGB RGB
RGB bRGB b

Legend: R=fully-lit red, G=fully-lit green, B=fully-lit blue, b=partially-lit blue
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-01_Checkerboard_Examples/checker_0whi_small.png

Red checkerboard.. this is where things start getting screwy..

R b R b
R b
r rg r
rg r rg
R b R b
R b

Legend: R=fully-lit red, r=partially lit red, etc..
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-01_Checkerboard_Examples/checker_1red_small.png

Green checkerboard (almost looks as you'd expect, if not for the dimly-lit subpixels around the main.. and incidentally, it actually does look checkerboarded on screen, although it's very jittery/interlaced-looking):

rGb g rGb
G G
G
g rGb g
rGb g rGb
G G

Legend: G=fully-lit green, g=partially lit green, etc..
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-01_Checkerboard_Examples/checker_2grn_small.png

Now the real fun.. blue:

B b B
b B b
B b B
b B b
B b B
b B b

Legend: B=fully-lit blue, b=partially lit blue, etc..
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-01_Checkerboard_Examples/checker_3blu_small.png

..the blue checkerboard effectively looks like a solid color on the screen. For comparison's sake, here's how I expected the blue checkerboard to show up (and how it shows up on other LCD monitors):

B B
B B
B
B
B B
B B


Let's focus on the blue for a second.. somehow, the blue subpixel rows are alternating full-blue/dark-blue on my Westinghouse. If normal displays marry the subpixels on every other row to the following row, then it seems odd that the TX-47 would be displaying every other subpixel row differently on a checkerboard (firstly, it shouldn't be displaying *anything* on a black pixel, and apparently it is.. secondly, it should display two of the same, i.e. "BB" on consecutive rows, where the video card says the pixel is.. and it's only displaying one fully-lit and one partially-lit.)

I have no idea why they'd do it this way, but I think it's intentional, because there seems to be a pattern to it.

So far, Westinghouse support has told me that it shouldn't be this way, and they asked what I have my PC resolution set to (I think it's 1920x1080, 60hz.. at least that's what "nvidia-settings" is reporting, but I guess it could be wrong).

I'm going to try hooking up another computer to the monitor today, using Winbloze, to see if that makes any difference.

Update: If anyone with a TX-47 can test my images on their screen, using DVI input (or vga--my test with vga came back the same, but the vga pic was more "wavy" probably due to signal interference), and either verify good or bad results, I would greatly appreciate it.. sending it back will cost me at least $54 (probably double that) depending on PCNation's return policy, not to mention all the pain of boxing it back up & driving it somewhere to ship it (I cut the box to shreds getting it out so I wouldn't have to strain my back lifting the unit--herniated disc, going in for surgery next week). My current unit doesn't appear to have any dead pixels, so I'd love to keep it if this happens to be "normal". Photos would be awesome to back up any claims.. I actually noticed that my set displays what I feel to be "correct" pixels for a split-second before it settles on the rogue pattern(s), so maybe I just have a bad chip or something.. the menus all look great too.. vga and dvi input suffer the same problems.

Thanks everyone!

P.S. I just hooked up my ViewSonic n2750w (720p) to DVI, and it looks spectacular as far as 1:1 pixel clarity.. exactly as expected.

I'm going to try hooking up another computer to the monitor today, using Winbloze, to see if that makes any difference.

..ok, hooked it up to windows, and I get the exact same thing using DVI->HDMI (different cable), and even a different video card (although it is still NVidia.. my Linux htpc has an Nvidia FX5200 in it, and this windows pc has an Nvidia Geforce4 MX440 8xAGP card in it).

Time to call support. I'll post back with any findings.

-Burgerleg

I'm impressed with their support. I described the problem, and had their technician pull up the images on my website (crazy-ish url, but he still got it first try). He said it definitely looks like a problem with the panel, so back to PCNation it goes.. unfortunately this means I'm short a 47" flat panel for at least a couple of weeks.

-Burgerleg

i tried with no avail to get it to the dvi/hdmi to work on the 42 and literally just plugged in a crappy vga cable and sadly it looks considerably better, plus it worked the first time..still a bit fuzzy compared to a true digital connection, but it you turn off cleartype it looks very good and crisp for analog.

i tried with no avail to get it to the dvi/hdmi to work on the 42 and literally just plugged in a crappy vga cable and sadly it looks considerably better, plus it worked the first time..still a bit fuzzy compared to a true digital connection, but it you turn off cleartype it looks very good and crisp for analog.

There is clearly something wrong if VGA looks better than DVI. VGA looks very good on my set but DVI/HDMI definitely looks better.

i'm trying to rule out a few things, since I don't think its the cable, nor the video card since VGA did 1080p just fine. It seems like its the hdcp or somewhere in the drivers that doesn't allow it to do 1080p and only 1080i. Either way, the colors were really screwy on the dvi/hdmi even at lower resolutions. The cable was the 28AWG from monoprice.

I wouldn't rule out the video card until you've tried multiple video cards. The video card I use primarily with the TV is a Radeon 9500 Pro and initially I couldn't get it to display 1080p. I had to tweak some DVI settings in the drivers to even get it to show up. Once it did it was blissful though. Take a gander at your driver settings and if possible try a different computer with a different video card. It is also possible that the HDMI port on the TV is screwy too.

I'll vouch for that.. the NVidia card I have required a new driver download to run at 1080p (and even then, it was buried deep in the windoze configuration).. getting it to run in Linux wasn't a breeze either.. had to add this quirky little line of code to /etc/X11/xorg.conf under Section "Device" :

Option "ModeValidation" "NoMaxPClkCheck, NoEdidMaxPClkCheck"

(I think that was because my Westinghouse monitor reported to the computer that the max resolution was 1280x1024 instead of 1920x1080), and even when trying to run 720p over DVI/HDMI on another monitor/tv I have (ViewSonic), the windows drivers had to be updated just to get it running at 720p over DVI (vga worked fine before that, but DVI caused the display to go all screwy, like I was running a refresh rate that was too high for the monitor to handle, or else it would completely blank out). Another possibility was that I rebooted the computer after installing the drivers, and all it needed was a reboot to detect DVI instead of VGA.

honestly i'm pretty sure that even if it did work i'd probably still stick with VGA...even at lower resolutions that worked the color was wrong compared to the VGA, and wasn't fixable by tweaking the settings either.

Anyone else getting no edid reading over VGA and cannot get 1920 x 1080 to work correctly? It's like 6 inches to the right to me and I can't get it to read as an LCD display nor as a westinghouse monitor.

I'm using a Dell Inspiron 1520 with a GeForce 8600m GT and 169.09 drivers.

On the model I have (TX-47, Sept 7, 2007 firmware), I can't really tell if OSD/menu text suffers the same problem as the picture I posted earlier, particularly because the OSD text is almost white-on-black, and I don't see the problem very well with white-on-black (but it's HUGE with blue-on-black). How did you test the April build unit at BB? Without doing a true apples-to-apples comparison, the green "arrows" on the menus look ok to me on the Sept build, as does the white-on-black text.. I think I'd see some residual "pixel dust" around them if they had the same problem that I saw with the blue-on-black text coming from the DVI->HDMI cable on the PC.

Incidentally, I did some more testing, and have more photos to share...


Thanks for the great [and highly disturbing] photos. Now we need someone to do the same thing on a pre-Sept build to see if the same is happening with those units. I will be scrutinizing my unit similarly when it gets here on Tuesday. If it shows the same, I will be considering the unit to be "defective" and expect the retailer to pick up the return shipping tab, as they state they will do with defective items. They can sort that out with Westinghouse afterward. That is, unless Westinghouse can offer a fix.

My "testing" of the April set at BB was only through the menus. No blue on screen, only green and white.

But I was wondering if you could tell me how the settings are configured on your set? I noticed one could disable the de-interlacer. Is it possible that the unit is still trying to de-interlace the input, even though it shouldn't be, because it is incorrectly identifying the video mode? Have you tried manually disabling it?

The anomaly looks strangely like artifacting from interpolation of the original signal. The only thing that wouldn't make sense is why "white" displays perfectly, but it may just be that the interpolation algorithms are not linear. Is there any way you can try a gray checkerboard to see what it does? Say at 50%? I have attached a few test images you can try if you'd like. I used compressed TIF format to keep them 1:1 and the size manageable.

Thanks so much for your efforts.

Oh, and I need to add that any "color management" system on the PC may also need to be disabled for this test. That slight tinge of blue may be the result of information being added by a color management system attempting to tweak the output.

ours is an april build and white text, like desktop icons have this rainbow look to it on dvi/hdmi.


April Build here on the TX47 with no such problems. I do have an HDCP compliant 2900XT though as well. I plugged a cheap Geforce MX card in another computer through VGA and the picture was horrible, Looked like the screen was jittering all the time on that card and VGA. My biggest irritation with this April build unit is still the popping sound issue it has.

I just got a 26 inch Westinghouse lcd tv. It has beautiful picture quality, everything works fine. I play my 360 on it, first night I got it everything works fine. Next day, I put in The Orange Box, and it has a weird crackling sound. This happens for most actions in the game (ie: shooting a gun, loud noises, etc). This sound is reminiscent of a very static-y tv. It's very, very annoying. This doesn't make that sound with other games (Halo 3, Guitar Hero 3). I have unplugged the tv (let it sit for about a day), unplugged-replugged the connections to the tv from the 360, I've reset my 360 numerous times, tried different games (which, as I stated, worked fine). I don't understand, it worked fine before, and it worked fine when I first got this tv (about 3 days ago). Any suggestions to fix this? I do have a 4-year warranty on this, but I don't really feel like repacking the tv and driving all the way to best buy. Also, this happens when I play Gears of War. So i'm guessing it's something with the tv. Any help on what it could be? I don't really know much about tv's to begin with so help is much appreciated.

Oh, and I need to add that any "color management" system on the PC may also need to be disabled for this test. That slight tinge of blue may be the result of information being added by a color management system attempting to tweak the output.

I'm not aware of any color management on the Linux box, but I'm running color management on my windows machine for sure, and I had the exact same results with either one of them hooked to the westinghouse.. anyway, as the windows machine is now hooked back up to my ViewSonic n2750w (720p) LCD, I decided to do the next round of tests, using linux on the westinghouse (assuming no color management) vs. windows on the viewsonic (definitely using color management).

Quick summary: More evidence that the westinghouse is doing funny stuff (but again, wh support's stance is that my panel has a problem and they're authorizing warranty on it.. so this may just be a fluke):

First the viewsonic images (all look exactly as I'd expect):
Viewsonic, 50percent checkerboard on black:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/50percent_Checkerboard_on_Black_viewsonic_small.jpg
Viewsonic, 50percent checkerboard on white:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/50percent_Checkerboard_on_White_viewsonic_small.jpg
Viewsonic, green on blue:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/Checkerboard_Green_on_Blue_viewsonic_small.jpg
Viewsonic, red on blue:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/Checkerboard_Red_on_Blue_viewsonic_small.jpg

Now my "flawed" westinghouse images (I think you're right about the interpolation / dithering):
Westinghouse, 50percent checkerboard on black:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/50percent_Checkerboard_on_Black_westinghouse_small.jpg
Westinghouse, 50percent checkerboard on white:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/50percent_Checkerboard_on_White_westinghouse_small.jpg
Westinghouse, green on blue:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/Checkerboard_Green_on_Blue_westinghouse_small.jpg
Westinghouse, red on blue:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/small_aligned/Checkerboard_Red_on_Blue_westinghouse_small.jpg

Did I mention before that when going from a white-black checkerboard to a red-black checkerboard or blue-black checkerboard, the blue-black or red-black is displayed correctly for a split second? I took a pic of it to prove it to myself.. so something is definitely messing with things (may be the video card, or the logic in the Westinghouse).

My flawed westinghouse display doesn't look bad.. in fact I haven't seen a single dead pixel, which is astounding.. it just looks a bit blurry when viewing single-pixel-thin text on a black background that isn't a light color.. and I think this problem also causes dark text on a white background to exhibit an extra "glow" that I don't usually get on my ViewSonic. Unfortunately this is a pretty big deal to me. Might not be for others.

-Burgerleg

Oh, forgot to mention that I also messed with the settings (calibration, de-interlace, 3dcomb, etc..).. the "movie" mode makes it look the best, but everything else I do has either no effect (de-interlace does nothing), or makes it look worse (changing color temp makes it more blurry).

-Burgerleg

Oh, forgot to mention that I also messed with the settings (calibration, de-interlace, 3dcomb, etc..).. the "movie" mode makes it look the best, but everything else I do has either no effect (de-interlace does nothing), or makes it look worse (changing color temp makes it more blurry).


Thanks again for doing the tests and the great photos.

Before we get too much further, could you try setting the mode to "user" and making sure that the sliders are all exactly in the middle (or indicate that you have already done this.) The fact that the image gets better or worse with the "mode" being used might be indicating a color bias that can be set to something more neutral.

However, this is starting to look painfully like some egghead's "brain-fart" scheme that might look marginally better with some content, but completely sacrifices the 1:1 pixel appearance when used as a computer display.

Hope you don't mind me playing with the images. This is most apparent between these two 50% checkerboard images;

http://www.idvtinc.com/images/VS_50percent.jpg........http://www.idvtinc.com/images/westy50percent.jpg

It's become apparent that the Westinghouse is using a vastly different scheme to arrive at the desired color. On the left, the Viewsonic is simply maintaining the square pixel shape, and dropping the intensity of all of the sub-pixels in half, as one would expect it to do. The Westinghouse, on the other hand (and on the right,) is taking the approach that, when viewed as a 6 sub-pixel group, it can illuminate half of the sub-pixels at 100% and stagger the pattern.

This can have the advantage of softening the pixelization of the image by making it more amorphous. However it is a severe disadvantage when using the display as a computer monitor, as those blocky patterns are important to keep small things from becoming literal blobs of meaningless light.

The 50% on white tells another similar, but apparently different story.

http://www.idvtinc.com/images/westy50percent_on_white.jpg

The interesting thing about this is that the 50% sub-pixel group is the same, but the intensity seems lower. This indicates a possibility of a dynamic black level or automatic gain type of calculation being applied. Otherwise, the 50% groups would very likely not have enough contrast with the adjacent sub-pixel group and could start to wash out. Strictly a hypothesis on that one, however.

But the "red on blue" and "green on blue" checkerboards fall squarely into the "WTF!?!? category.

http://www.idvtinc.com/images/westy_green_on_blue.jpg......http://www.idvtinc.com/images/westy_red_on_blue.jpg

These two indicate that the Westinghouse TX monitors with a Sept build date are NOT capable of representing true 1080p resolution if these modes cannot be disabled. They appear to be averaging across multiple 6-subpixel groups to display certain combinations, as can be seen in these two images. These examples show elements of color being placed inside the sub-pixel groups where it clearly does not belong. Looking closely, one can see that the pattern has extended to the next group vertically, and that it is inverted on every other column.

So if this cannot be fixed, it may be time to start yelling "foul" on these new builds. There's no way one can claim 1080p on all inputs if all inputs exhibit this behavior. I think something needs to be said on page one to warn people of this possible issue with the new builds.

It may be that this is all just a firmware bug that can be corrected, but even if it is, it won't matter if they are unwilling or unable to provide firmware updates to users.

April Build here on the TX47 with no such problems. I do have an HDCP compliant 2900XT though as well. I plugged a cheap Geforce MX card in another computer through VGA and the picture was horrible, Looked like the screen was jittering all the time on that card and VGA. My biggest irritation with this April build unit is still the popping sound issue it has.

strange...starting to wonder if its partly the monoprice 28AWG cable..who knows. Incidentally, I haven't had any sound issues (knock on wood) with the westy thus far, and is actually the one place that it beats my new samsung in. They actually sound full in comparison...must be that sub lol. A friend of ours also has the 47TX and yet he has none of the energy saver startup problems that i've had (at least 3 lockups so far, all were fixable)

Hey Everybody... I was just wondering if you guys could answer a few questions for me (I have looked at every post on this thread, and have a general idea of what the answers are but just want to be sure!). I am going to explain the basics of my situation first...I currently own a 37" 1080p LCD and decide I would like to go bigger (47" at least), and since I am a college student, price point is crucial (thus either a Westinghouse or Vizio). My current TV has problems with De-interlacing signals (i.e. 1080i), and whenever it receives an interlaced signal, there is motion blur, which is a big problem for me (I own a Toshiba HD-A2 player and it has to be at 720p) and wondering the following if I upgrade to this set:
Current Set-Up
Westinghouse LVM-37LW (TV)
Toshiba HD-A2 (720p via HDMI)
Xbox 360 w/ HD-DVD Add-On (1080p via VGA)
Nintendo Wii (480p via Component)
Playstation 3 (Not hooked up yet, but want 1080p via HDMI or Component?)

I am looking at either this TV (TX-47F430s) or the Vizio GV47LF. Does anyone one here have a similar setup as me, when it comes to hardware and inputs on the Westinghouse? Do you guys have any problems with the 1080i signal or 1080p via VGA?

Also, this TV will ONLY be used for movie watching (HD-A2) and gaming (Xbox 360 and PS3), so I am not too worried about the SD or TV elements.

Thanks in advance,
Ian

strange...starting to wonder if its partly the monoprice 28AWG cable..who knows. Incidentally, I haven't had any sound issues (knock on wood) with the westy thus far, and is actually the one place that it beats my new samsung in. They actually sound full in comparison...must be that sub lol. A friend of ours also has the 47TX and yet he has none of the energy saver startup problems that i've had (at least 3 lockups so far, all were fixable)

I guess it just depends on the set you get and maybe not just the firmware, I have not had one lockup on my TX47 although I also do not use esaver so that might have something to do with it. I do have to reboot at times for screen judder such as a ticker going across the screen jumps. I now put the mute on when I'm using the screen as my computer monitor so as not to hear the popping. I really don't notice it a whole lot while watching TV programs through my HD-DVR but I do hear it sometimes through there as well.

Hey Everybody... I was just wondering if you guys could answer a few questions for me (I have looked at every post on this thread, and have a general idea of what the answers are but just want to be sure!). I am going to explain the basics of my situation first...I currently own a 37" 1080p LCD and decide I would like to go bigger (47" at least), and since I am a college student, price point is crucial (thus either a Westinghouse or Vizio). My current TV has problems with De-interlacing signals (i.e. 1080i), and whenever it receives an interlaced signal, there is motion blur, which is a big problem for me (I own a Toshiba HD-A2 player and it has to be at 720p) and wondering the following if I upgrade to this set:
Current Set-Up
Westinghouse LVM-37LW (TV)
Toshiba HD-A2 (720p via HDMI)
Xbox 360 w/ HD-DVD Add-On (1080p via VGA)
Nintendo Wii (480p via Component)
Playstation 3 (Not hooked up yet, but want 1080p via HDMI or Component?)

I am looking at either this TV (TX-47F430s) or the Vizio GV47LF. Does anyone one here have a similar setup as me, when it comes to hardware and inputs on the Westinghouse? Do you guys have any problems with the 1080i signal or 1080p via VGA?

Also, this TV will ONLY be used for movie watching (HD-A2) and gaming (Xbox 360 and PS3), so I am not too worried about the SD or TV elements.

Thanks in advance,
Ian

i have the tx47
hd a2
ps3
sa 8300 stb

no problem

Thanks again for doing the tests and the great photos.

Before we get too much further, could you try setting the mode to "user" and making sure that the sliders are all exactly in the middle (or indicate that you have already done this.) The fact that the image gets better or worse with the "mode" being used might be indicating a color bias that can be set to something more neutral.


Yes, the only reason it gets better/worse is that the lower brightness levels tend to make the "blurring" (or extra-lit pixels) around the blue-on-black text less-visible. They're still lit, though. For the sake of being thorough, I just tried setting everything to 50%, and it's definitely still there.


However, this is starting to look painfully like some egghead's "brain-fart" scheme that might look marginally better with some content, but completely sacrifices the 1:1 pixel appearance when used as a computer display.


I think you're right. Something else I noticed with this set--when displaying bright images that suddenly disappear and go to a black background, slight ghosts remain as long as the background remains black. Now that I know how to look for it, I see it everywhere--movies, live tv, pc input.. it's most apparent if you're sitting off to the side (not straight on).. could this be another egghead maneuver?

Love what you did with the images. It makes it clearer what they're doing.

Looking closely, one can see that the pattern has extended to the next group vertically, and that it is inverted on every other column.

Indeed, and on the blue-on-black text that caused me to originally notice this problem, I believe the interpolation extends as much as 2 pixels around the text in all directions.. I would think that such a trick would take some hefty processing to accomplish, and would have had to be planned, since there is a definite pattern to it...

I hooked up my TX-47 to my rooftop antenna today. Maybe someone else can provide feedback more easily/quickly with this test (or try it on a store set):
1. Turn closed captioning ON
2. Under CC Setting ->
* Digital CC: Service1
* Font Size: Small
* Font: FONT1
* Text Color: Blue
* Text Opacity: Solid
* BG Color: Black
* BG Opacity: Solid

..Tune to a digital channel, and the set should display closed captioning.. it's blue text, mostly single-pixel-thin, and on a black background. Here's what I see on my set:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/cc_img_01.jpg
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/cc_img_02.jpg

..so this isn't the exact same problem I'm having with PC input (which maybe tells me that I'm doing something wrong), but it does show the wacky interpolation/dithering with alternating subpixel intensity.. and you can actually see it without a magnifying glass if your eyesight is good enough. Look for alternating light/dark dots on the vertical lines, as shown in the images above.. you can also see the "up/down/up/down" light/dark subpixels on the horizontal lines (top of the "E"s).


So if this cannot be fixed, it may be time to start yelling "foul" on these new builds. There's no way one can claim 1080p on all inputs if all inputs exhibit this behavior. I think something needs to be said on page one to warn people of this possible issue with the new builds.

I don't know if it's time to call foul yet, because their support states that I have a bad panel, and they're willing to replace it.. of course that means I pay shipping..

It may be that this is all just a firmware bug that can be corrected, but even if it is, it won't matter if they are unwilling or unable to provide firmware updates to users.

I would DEFINITELY opt for a firmware update instead of sending in my unit, even if it meant voiding my warranty.. in order to get this thing boxed up to PCNation's standards, I'll have to do a cross-shipment and use the new set's box to ship my current set back, which means my credit card takes another $1,379 hit until they get the "flawed" unit back and decide I've followed their rules closely enough to warrant a credit. I just don't want to risk that, or go through the hassle of shipping it.. but I think I'll always regret it if I don't at least try to get the problem fixed while I'm still under warranty.

-Burgerleg

I don't know if it's time to call foul yet, because their support states that I have a bad panel, and they're willing to replace it.. of course that means I pay shipping..


Check out El_Riel's post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11870113#post11870113)

I hate to say it, but I think the "support" people at Westinghouse don't yet know the storm they are in for. They most likely are doing what so many other companies do, and that is buying these things from China with some minimal input on the design. This may be why they are "asleep at the switch" with what appears to be a drastic change of their product, and may account for why there are no user firmware updates available. They may not even have access to them themselves.

Take a look at pages 112 and 113 of this thread as well. Everything I have seen so far indicates that the Sept builds are very different from those preceding them. The support person you spoke to probably isn't aware of the difference yet, so he assumed the behavior of the newer unit indicated it to be faulty. It would really be bad to go through the expense and trouble of an exchange only to get another that behaves the same way.

I have a sinking feeling that mine will also be a Sept build, so I will let you know on Tuesday.

Xcalibur_255
Have ever experienced any lockups? I'm at the point where I just want this TX out of my house. It's that bad. I would not recommend this TX to anyone at this point.

Apologies for the delay in getting back. To date I have experienced 3 soft lockups. By soft I mean it was not necessary to unplug the set to recover it. The first was the second time I ever turned the set on. I had turned it off then immediately back on and apparently these sets do no like this. The capacitors in the powersupply need at least 10-15 seconds to recover before attempting to restart the tv so that was the cause of #1. Both of the other lockups occurred when I turned on a device connected to the tv while the tv itself was still in the process of booting up and this caused the set to hang at boot (the westinghouse logo). Since then I simply wait until the tv is up and running before turning on other things such as dvd players or receivers and I have not seen a lockup since. All three of my lockups were cured by holding the power button for 10 seconds to force a reboot. No unplug was needed.

Burgerleg, did you take those photos of the TX set yourself? If so I find that very interesting. Your pixels are not chevron shaped which means you got a panel that isn't IPS based. Westinghouse is using more than one panel supplier in this case. If you got an MVA panel you would have better black levels but greater color washout at side viewing angles.

Burgerleg, did you take those photos of the TX set yourself? If so I find that very interesting. Your pixels are not chevron shaped which means you got a panel that isn't IPS based. Westinghouse is using more than one panel supplier in this case. If you got an MVA panel you would have better black levels but greater color washout at side viewing angles.

Yes, I took the photos myself.. I don't know how the "chevron" panels look, but I can verify that my panel looks fairly washed out from side viewing angles.

-Burgerleg

I am done with this TX after owning it for about 28 days with the constant lockups. I am returning it on Friday. I went back to the vendor where I purchased the TX and after several attempts to get the vendor to send a tech out to look at the set - no success (they never called to setup an appointment) I went to the store today and expressed to the manager I was not satisfied with the performance of this set. I agree for the budget price you get a nice picture, but the constant lockups are not acceptable to me. I am just going to see if I can pick something else out. :(

Anyone have suggestions?:confused:

All, just as an FYI - I returned the TX47 because of the lockup issues and poor black levels. I picked up a Toshiba Regza 47HL167 on Friday. Looked nice in the store, brought it home to find one dead pixel. Immediately informed the store. I was supposed to get a replacement on Tuesday. After watching the TV over the weekend I realized their there was a green tint to anything that had dark scenes or shadows. No calibration could fix it. I saw many posts on the Tosh Regza thread of a green push on these sets. Its true there is a green push. I went to the store today and also noticed on the display model. I asked the manager if I could get something else because of issue with the 47HL167. Tomorrow I am returning the Tosh and going with a Samsung LNT4665F. I hope I have better luck with this one.

update: 12/5/07

FYI - The Samsung LNT4665F has an awesome picture - miles better than the TX47 and Tosh 47HL167. To say the least this journey has been a learning experience. For those of you still wanting to purchase a TX, make sure you get it from a store with a flexible return policy. Good luck

Anyone have any codes for my Directv RC23 control? I need to program it but I need a code. I have the TX-42 version and regular Directv if that helps.

Nervmined I just programmed it


I got the TX42 today, PS3 looks GREAT on it. SD is ok, I love this set. No problems so far and I hope I have none in the future.

I just looked at my display and even putting my eyeall more-or-less agains the screen, I couldn't even see the sub pixels, but every test I did seemed to indicate everything was correct. The fonts on CC seemed to have sharply-defined edges and even widths. Mine is software 5110_1.1.0 built April 23, 2007.

Can anyone with a PS3 that works with the TV on HDMI pleae indicate what they are showing here?

I just looked at my display and even putting my eyeall more-or-less agains the screen, I couldn't even see the sub pixels, but every test I did seemed to indicate everything was correct. The fonts on CC seemed to have sharply-defined edges and even widths. Mine is software 5110_1.1.0 built April 23, 2007.


That's encouraging, as it suggests that perhaps this can be fixed with a firmware upgrade (or downgrade, but I don't have any lockup issues or sound problems that I've noticed, and definitely don't want those either). I'm half wondering if my blurry text issue is due to HDCP.. I get the problem on Component input at 1080i (from an old xbox), VGA input (from the same pc I used with DVI), and DVI->HDMI from two different PCs with similar-but-different NVidia video cards (non-HDCP afaik).. could be firmware though..

To be clear, I define blurry text as this ("1080p" on my westinghouse tx-47 via DVI->HDMI):
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/WestingHouse_small.jpg
vs. this (1600x1200 on my old Inspiron laptop's LCD):
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/InspironLaptop_small.jpg

..my CC in ATSC mode on the Westinghouse, running in 1080i or 720p, with blue text on a solid black background, looks crisp with well-defined edges, however it does have what may be a separate issue, where instead of kicking on a full-intensity blue subpixel in each of the two rows for a pixel on a single-pixel-width font, it gives one at full intensity and the second at a lesser intensity (maybe 50%), and this phenomenon alternates the up/down intensities on every column of pixels, resulting in something that looks more "CRT-ish" to me, i.e.:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-02_test_for_randytx/cc_img_02.jpg
..as RandyT2 pointed out, El_Riel also noticed this in his post here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11870113#post11870113).
If the "testing" text on my Westinghouse in 1080p via HDMI looked like the closed-captioning "EE" text above, I could probably convince myself to tolerate it, but there's no way I'm convincing myself that the blurry result above is acceptable. I'm wishing now that I had gone with the 47" monitor instead of the TV, but I chose the TV because:
1. I don't like silver. "I see a red door, and I want it painted black."
2. It has the ATSC/QAM tuner, and I think I might eventually upgrade my living room to a larger screen, in which case the tuner might come in handy if I don't have a HTPC to dedicate to this set.

..I digress.

Can anyone with a PS3 that works with the TV on HDMI pleae indicate what they are showing here?

I'm hoping my friend can bring his PS3 to my house tomorrow afternoon (with HDMI cable).. I decided that I might have a few more days to return the set, and if I do return it, I'll have them cross-ship me a new one, so I'll have this flawed set for a good long while, and for a while I'll have two sets for comparison. I fully intend to get to the bottom of this, and greatly appreciate the help of those who have already supplied input. Whatever I find, I'll post back to the forum.

RandyT2, you're scheduled to get your set today (Tuesday), aren't you? I'm anxious to hear your findings.. I might also see if anyone local carries this set and has a model on display, and take a field trip to the store to get a first-hand comparison..

Thanks again to all those helping to solve this ongoing mystery.

-Burgerleg

RandyT2, you're scheduled to get your set today (Tuesday), aren't you? I'm anxious to hear your findings.. I might also see if anyone local carries this set and has a model on display, and take a field trip to the store to get a first-hand comparison..


I was supposed to take delivery on Monday, but the freight company didn't put it on the truck. So it looks like it's now scheduled for Wednesday. I will be conducting tests on it as soon as I get it out of the box, and will report what I find.

If you can find an older build at your local BB, it would be worth the trip to do a comparison. I'll remember to play with the CC next time I'm there.

Son-of-a-bitch
Best Buy arrived and when i tried to demonstrate the problem, it started working. THe difference may have been that this time, I powered on the PS# with the cable unplugged, then plugged the HDMI in once it booted. THey said my overscan problem was within normal tolerances, though that doesn't sound correct for a 10% distortion. If it were just zoomed, it would be tolerable, but it's only stretched vertically.

Hi. This is my second Westinghouse Tx-42. I now have the exact same problem as before. I was trying to play my ps3 and the TV said no input signal. I rebooting the TV and tried to turn it on. However it just turns off after the Westinghouse logo. I am tired exchanging and I am past the 30 day warranty. Again, Best Buy told me they have to send a repair man in a week to come and look at it. Does anyone know if I can return it and get another TV instead of exchanging?

aznbboyx2000, that sounds like what happened to me. I installed Linux, then I booted the TV up and the PS3 seperately, then plugged in the cable and it work. Howver, maybe the difference was that I had repairmen standing there watching me.

I was supposed to take delivery on Monday, but the freight company didn't put it on the truck. So it looks like it's now scheduled for Wednesday. I will be conducting tests on it as soon as I get it out of the box, and will report what I find.

Excellent.

If you can find an older build at your local BB, it would be worth the trip to do a comparison. I'll remember to play with the CC next time I'm there.

I went to BB today, and they had the tx-42f430s (42") on display, but not the tx-47. The build was 5110_1.1.0, dated April 13, 2007. Of course I couldn't test the set for the "blurry text" problem I've been experiencing, but I tested the closed captioning, and it looked great.. no staggered subpixels when selecting single-pixel-thin fonts & blue-on-black text for CC.

I also went out and grabbed a new video card, hoping that it would solve my problems.. NVidia Geforce 8400GS. Hooked it up via HDMI, used the windows drivers and all the authentic settings for HDTV.. It was easy to get working at 1080p and 1080i (presets already existed), but I still got the same blurry text.

I have one more test to try before I throw in the towel... maybe.

-Burgerleg

I went to BB today, and they had the tx-42f430s (42") on display, but not the tx-47. The build was 5110_1.1.0, dated April 13, 2007. Of course I couldn't test the set for the "blurry text" problem I've been experiencing, but I tested the closed captioning, and it looked great.. no staggered subpixels when selecting single-pixel-thin fonts & blue-on-black text for CC.


In my mind, that cinches it for a Sept. Build issue. Video cards can't, to my knowledge, control the display at the sub-pixel level. That means either it's a firmware issue, or something worse, like a different display controller. If it's firmware, then there is at least the remote possibility of a fix. If not, there's no fix and it's junk for computer use.

But at very minimum, I think there is enough cause to put a big warning on the front page of this thread to alert people that Westinghouse backdoored a change on this unit that makes all previous reviews and comments about computer use with the TX series invalid starting with the Sept Builds. It should also state that the company's claims for true 1080p output on all connections is now also questionable for these builds.

I bought one of these specifically because of the great reviews for computer use, and it may actually end up being worse than the unit I bought for $200 less and returned. Needless to say, I will make it my life's work to spread the word about these things if I end up with one that does not stack up to the performance levels of previous units bearing the exact same model number.

I'd like to post my experience with the TX-42F430S.

I purchased my first one at Best Buy on 10/28/07. This one worked great, although I noticed it had a few dead pixels after about a week and 1/2. I returned it for a brand new one on 11/11/07, same make and model, TX-42F430S.

This one has no dead pixels and the picutre is great. However, our power had flickered on and off the past 2 weeks due to the weather in my area recently (strong winds). Two nights ago the entire block was without power for a few hours.

Anyway, the TV absolutely will not detect any of my connections via HDMI or any other source after a power outage unless I completely unplug everything and disconnect all my A/V connections including HDMI, reconnect everything, then restart the TV. Even then it still locks up a few times before I can get it to work.

I'm going to to return again this weekend, for another TX-42F430S. Hopefully the third time is a charm. I really like this TV, for all the features you get for the price, it can't be beat. If I have problems with the 3rd one though, I'm going with another brand.

Hey Everybody... I was just wondering if you guys could answer a few questions for me (I have looked at every post on this thread, and have a general idea of what the answers are but just want to be sure!). I am going to explain the basics of my situation first...I currently own a 37" 1080p LCD and decide I would like to go bigger (47" at least), and since I am a college student, price point is crucial (thus either a Westinghouse or Vizio). My current TV has problems with De-interlacing signals (i.e. 1080i), and whenever it receives an interlaced signal, there is motion blur, which is a big problem for me (I own a Toshiba HD-A2 player and it has to be at 720p) and wondering the following if I upgrade to this set:
Current Set-Up
Westinghouse LVM-37LW (TV)
Toshiba HD-A2 (720p via HDMI)
Xbox 360 w/ HD-DVD Add-On (1080p via VGA)
Nintendo Wii (480p via Component)
Playstation 3 (Not hooked up yet, but want 1080p via HDMI or Component?)

I am looking at either this TV (TX-47F430s) or the Vizio GV47LF. Does anyone one here have a similar setup as me, when it comes to hardware and inputs on the Westinghouse? Do you guys have any problems with the 1080i signal or 1080p via VGA?

Also, this TV will ONLY be used for movie watching (HD-A2) and gaming (Xbox 360 and PS3), so I am not too worried about the SD or TV elements.

Thanks in advance,
Ian

My advice stay away from this TX - see my earlier post regarding this unit. Good luck

I finally bit the bullet and bought the tx-42f430s 2 days ago at BestBuy at a decent price after I waited for 2 weeks for the price to go back down on the set. I am still waiting on whether to buy the warranty, but more on that later

I would like to share my thoughts with all of you, and I really appreciate what we all have going here in this thread. I am relatively new at posting in this thread, so this is kinda like my first offical post.

The Good Stuff (You Know you Love it)

This tv is HUGE in my living room. We sit about 5 feet away from it, it looked much bigger in the store. I shoved it into my mother's Hyundai Sonata back seat because it wouldn't fit in the trunk with the seats down. I had to cut the side of the box open because I could not get it out of the backseat.

Once on our meager TV stand that previously held a 27 inch CRT standard def, it felt like we were at the movies. I realize the power cable needs to really be shoved into the TV for it to turn on.

I have used the TV with xbox 360 component cables. Picture looks insanely good. I use 1080p setting and extended black levels, but I heard that the signal is not true 1080p though. Burnout 3 Revenge Demo rocked and the titanic 1080p include on the hard drive looked insane too. I don't detect any motion blur, so I don't know what some people are talking about.

DVD's on the 360 component look AMAZING. Almost as good as Blu Ray I think. I keep thinking it must be upconverting the quailty, even though the DVD outputs at 480p. But is the Westy upscaling the DVD? We all watched Raiders of the Lost Ark DVD on it, and were amazed at how much widescreen rocks compared to 4:3. I actually had to wiggle the Rocket Fish component cable around in the back, because the picture at first looked a little off color. I got some strange bizarre garbage on the screen for a brief second, like some noise in the picture, kinda like when you adjust the tracking on a VCR, but it went away, and didn't happen for the rest of the viewing.

Wii looked great too with the component cable. I actually could detect some slight motion blur on the Virtual Console Super Mario Bros 3 game on a level with a black backgroudn with Bullet Bills flying all over, but seriously...that's the only motion blur I see. Wii Sports was much better with a 42" widescreen.

Hooked up the crappy indoor antenna, and we live almost 55 miles from the broadcast towers in Kent Island, MD, and the towers are located in Baltimore, so the reception was very in and out. But it works, and looks great in 1080i. Conan last night was great, and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer looked crazy too, you could see the little pieces of lint and hair on the stop motion animation. I might get a rooftop antenna, any thoughts on this?

I am waiting off on getting a PS3 or HDMI Upconvert DVD, so I have not tested with HDMI yet, but that is next on the list along with Directv HD.

Also have the S-Video standard def DirecTV on too, and it doesn't look bad at all I think. I think most new LCD's have this problem. Just use FILL to blow up the image or overscan and you'll be fine with standard def.

Now...time for the bad stuff...

BLACK LEVEL COMPLAINERS. Go back a few pages and find all the calibration settings that were posted. I would like to thank whoever it is that did that. YOU NEED TO CALIBRATE THIS TV. From just using mostly Excaliburs settings and someone elses RGB values on Neutral, (i'll post later and thank them once I look their name up), I have noticed a substantial improvement. And Excalibur and others are right, you gotta turn down the damned backlight. 10-20 is all you need. Just turn on a lamp off to the side in the room. Maybe 30 for games.

The reds with this set seem a little off to me, but the RGB values posted helped. I don't know if Excalibur and the other person used Avia to get those settings, but I plan on getting a copy and trying it myself. Neutral with R and G at 142 and B at 130 is a big improvement I think.

I have one dead pixel so far. Bleh. I don't know if it is dead or stuck. But it is green. The good thing is it is almost impossible to spot from where we sit, but I don't like this. Should I take it back, because the panel might be crappy and I could expect more down the road. This is why I am thinking about the warranty.

The viewing angles on this are better with the backlight down, that's all I can say about that. I believe I have one of the MVA panels, because side viewing angles get noticeably worse, but I think the blacks on this set are pretty decent with CALIBRATION. I seriously suggest looking at some of those calibrations posted and giving them all a try.

I believe I might have some good luck with this late September build, and I think some of the earlier owners got a little screwed over. Here's to the best.

Well, thanks for reading the post, even if you just scanned through. Let me know your thoughts on some of my questions, or just comments that you have, good or bad, we would all appreciate it, and enjoy your TV's!

As for me I'm pulling the trigger at BB on Friday with the help of my 12% off Rewards coupon. This is a no-brainer for me. I'll add the BB extended warranty & cross my fingers.

EdL

I just recalbrated my set since I reset it for troubleshooting. I turned the backlight down to 30 since that was the lowest I could get decent whites and blacks are still very much gray. Also, when calibrating color, I couldn't find any way to correct for push. See attached pictures. The pattern came out correct for blue at about hue setting 47 and red and hue 55 and setting it at 51 puts them both pretty close to right. Green, however, is only correct toward the bottom of the scale and playing with the individual colors setting seems to have no effect as that only affects the individual amount, not push. Looking at the color separations, it appears the issue is it's adding a bit of green to its blues. Does anyone know how to fix this?

Here's the test pattern:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/Ace_of_Sevens/colorbars.jpg

red separation:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/Ace_of_Sevens/redchannel.jpg

blue separation:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/Ace_of_Sevens/bluechannel.jpg

green separation:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k149/Ace_of_Sevens/greenchannel.jpg

On an unrelated note, I found my overscan is actually 2.5% on each side and 5% on the top and bottom with component output, which is tolerable.

Just in case anyone cared here are my settings since some people are talking about calibration.

Brightness: 49
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 42
Hue: 48
Sharpness: 0
Backlight: 40
Color Temp: Warm
Red: 132
Green: 140
Blue: 128

Would anyone care to post their settings done with an AVIA DVD calibration?

Thanks.

I'm gonna try mph's settings also.

Ok, I'm finally ready to post on the set that came today. Sorry it took so long to get this far.

Much to my relief, the set was an April 13 build. Maybe I'll have some of the other issues down the road, but as I plan to use this primarily with a computer, I might be spared.

In any event, the April builds use a panel with chevron shaped sub-pixels. This already appears to be different from the Sept builds, based on earlier photos.

Here's mine with a normal checkerboard and then the 50% checkerboard on White:

http://www.idvtinc.com/images/myTXcheckerboard.jpg...http://www.idvtinc.com/images/myTX50percentonwhite.jpg

Pretty much as one would expect. Note the shape of the sub-pixels.

The blue text on black not the clearest, but it is legible. Nothing like the images shown from the Sept. Build unit.

http://idvtinc.com/images/bluetextx1.jpg

It's already evident that some hokum is occurring even with this set, but nowhere near as bad as the Sept Build units. But this one is not out of the woods yet...lets take a look at the green and red checkerboards on the blue background;

http://idvtinc.com/images/myTXgreenonblue.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/myTXredonblue.jpg

ok...back to WTF?!?!

Clearly there is considerable trickery happening here. It only takes two seconds to look at these patterns and see that clearly, both are not as one would expect them to be. The green on blue checker board completely omits a pixel and groups the blue and green components together in the same pixel, while the red and blue are sharing every pixel, and looks only remotely like a checkerboard through the higher intensity of the red sub-pixels in some of the pixels. The only thing I can figure is that it is tweaked for color perception, rather than pixel accuracy.

And speaking of accuracy, here are 5 pixel grids of each color;

http://idvtinc.com/images/redgrid.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/greengrid.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/bluegrid.jpg

These are supposed to be perfect grids, so it's not difficult to see the geometric distortion present with small objects of a primary color on black. On other colors, the dynamic changes, however, so these results seem to be unique to to primaries (red, green, and blue). Looking at the above, it's pretty apparent as to why green and white text are used in the menus.

The other thing to note is that this build has nice, straight lines, not the sparkly up and down look of the Sept builds.

Again, I want to stress that these images are coming from an April Build, not one of the newer Sept versions, which is apparently different.

My conclusion with this set, however, is that I am very pleased with it. Overall, great color and detail with a PC connected via a Monoprice heavy gauge DVI->HDMI cable. Single pixel fonts look great with just a couple exceptions and even those are passable. There isn't a single flawed pixel on this set, and with the backlight reduced to 20 the black level is fine. But if I just want brightness, this set will get very bright at the expense of the blacks.

I'm still bummed for those who bought the TX units for PC use and ended up with the Sept builds. I almost feel guilty because this one looks so good. It's not perfect 1:1 with all color combinations, but it seems to be close enough. I hope you all have good luck with pushing for a firmware fix, board swap, or whatever else it might take to get rid of those display issues.

In any event, the April builds use a panel with chevron shaped sub-pixels. This already appears to be different from the Sept builds, based on earlier photos.


Interesting...


The blue text on black not the clearest, but it is legible. Nothing like the images shown from the Sept. Build unit.

http://idvtinc.com/images/bluetextx1.jpg

It's already evident that some hokum is occurring even with this set, but nowhere near as bad as the Sept Build units.


I wouldn't say that all sept build units have the blurry blue text issue as I posted it earlier.. Westinghouse's semi-official stance with me is that my blurry text was a bug/defect.

I finally pulled the trigger on getting a replacement today. Having it cross-shipped, so for a very brief time, maybe next Monday/Tuesday, I'll have two sets.. hoping the new one is a September build too, so I can compare and report.. then again, hoping it's NOT a September build, because I just want a set that works well for all of my uses, present and future, and I don't want to deal with another replacement.


But this one is not out of the woods yet...lets take a look at the green and red checkerboards on the blue background;

http://idvtinc.com/images/myTXgreenonblue.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/myTXredonblue.jpg

ok...back to WTF?!?!

Clearly there is considerable trickery happening here. It only takes two seconds to look at these patterns and see that clearly, both are not as one would expect them to be. The green on blue checker board completely omits a pixel and groups the blue and green components together in the same pixel, while the red and blue are sharing every pixel, and looks only remotely like a checkerboard through the higher intensity of the red sub-pixels in some of the pixels. The only thing I can figure is that it is tweaked for color perception, rather than pixel accuracy.


That's just nasty. I don't want *any* trickery happening. I just want the set to do what my card is telling it to do. Incidentally, when I have black text on a white background, another thing I notice with my current set is that I get "ghosts" around the letters of slightly-brighter-than-white pixels.. very annoying.

And speaking of accuracy, here are 5 pixel grids of each color;

http://idvtinc.com/images/redgrid.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/greengrid.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/bluegrid.jpg

These are supposed to be perfect grids, so it's not difficult to see the geometric distortion present with small objects of a primary color on black. On other colors, the dynamic changes, however, so these results seem to be unique to to primaries (red, green, and blue). Looking at the above, it's pretty apparent as to why green and white text are used in the menus.


If you turn on CC and make it blue-on-black, using FONT1 (single pixel width), do you see this same kind of thing? I didn't see it on the set at BB, and I only saw the "sparkly up and down" issue on my own set, which suffers from the blurry blue "defect." ..so I'm wondering if the blur has more to do with "outside" inputs rather than their own internal overlays & menus being displayed. You know, I really wouldn't care much if THEIR menus looked a little blurry, as long as whatever I fed the monitor was displayed perfectly.

It's not perfect 1:1 with all color combinations, but it seems to be close enough. I hope you all have good luck with pushing for a firmware fix, board swap, or whatever else it might take to get rid of those display issues.

Thanks, RandyT2.. I'm not so forgiving, and strive for the "perfect 1:1" especially from a set that's advertised as "1080pure".. maybe I'll feel differently when the next set arrives. Will definitely report back with my findings, and I'll provide photos if appropriate.

-Burgerleg

I finally bit the bullet and bought the tx-42f430s 2 days ago at BestBuy at a decent price after I waited for 2 weeks for the price to go back down on the set. I am still waiting on whether to buy the warranty, but more on that later

I would like to share my thoughts with all of you, and I really appreciate what we all have going here in this thread. I am relatively new at posting in this thread, so this is kinda like my first offical post.

The Good Stuff (You Know you Love it)

This tv is HUGE in my living room. We sit about 5 feet away from it, it looked much bigger in the store. I shoved it into my mother's Hyundai Sonata back seat because it wouldn't fit in the trunk with the seats down. I had to cut the side of the box open because I could not get it out of the backseat.

Once on our meager TV stand that previously held a 27 inch CRT standard def, it felt like we were at the movies. I realize the power cable needs to really be shoved into the TV for it to turn on.

I have used the TV with xbox 360 component cables. Picture looks insanely good. I use 1080p setting and extended black levels, but I heard that the signal is not true 1080p though. Burnout 3 Revenge Demo rocked and the titanic 1080p include on the hard drive looked insane too. I don't detect any motion blur, so I don't know what some people are talking about.

DVD's on the 360 component look AMAZING. Almost as good as Blu Ray I think. I keep thinking it must be upconverting the quailty, even though the DVD outputs at 480p. But is the Westy upscaling the DVD? We all watched Raiders of the Lost Ark DVD on it, and were amazed at how much widescreen rocks compared to 4:3. I actually had to wiggle the Rocket Fish component cable around in the back, because the picture at first looked a little off color. I got some strange bizarre garbage on the screen for a brief second, like some noise in the picture, kinda like when you adjust the tracking on a VCR, but it went away, and didn't happen for the rest of the viewing.

Wii looked great too with the component cable. I actually could detect some slight motion blur on the Virtual Console Super Mario Bros 3 game on a level with a black backgroudn with Bullet Bills flying all over, but seriously...that's the only motion blur I see. Wii Sports was much better with a 42" widescreen.

Hooked up the crappy indoor antenna, and we live almost 55 miles from the broadcast towers in Kent Island, MD, and the towers are located in Baltimore, so the reception was very in and out. But it works, and looks great in 1080i. Conan last night was great, and Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer looked crazy too, you could see the little pieces of lint and hair on the stop motion animation. I might get a rooftop antenna, any thoughts on this?

I am waiting off on getting a PS3 or HDMI Upconvert DVD, so I have not tested with HDMI yet, but that is next on the list along with Directv HD.

Also have the S-Video standard def DirecTV on too, and it doesn't look bad at all I think. I think most new LCD's have this problem. Just use FILL to blow up the image or overscan and you'll be fine with standard def.

Now...time for the bad stuff...

BLACK LEVEL COMPLAINERS. Go back a few pages and find all the calibration settings that were posted. I would like to thank whoever it is that did that. YOU NEED TO CALIBRATE THIS TV. From just using mostly Excaliburs settings and someone elses RGB values on Neutral, (i'll post later and thank them once I look their name up), I have noticed a substantial improvement. And Excalibur and others are right, you gotta turn down the damned backlight. 10-20 is all you need. Just turn on a lamp off to the side in the room. Maybe 30 for games.

The reds with this set seem a little off to me, but the RGB values posted helped. I don't know if Excalibur and the other person used Avia to get those settings, but I plan on getting a copy and trying it myself. Neutral with R and G at 142 and B at 130 is a big improvement I think.

I have one dead pixel so far. Bleh. I don't know if it is dead or stuck. But it is green. The good thing is it is almost impossible to spot from where we sit, but I don't like this. Should I take it back, because the panel might be crappy and I could expect more down the road. This is why I am thinking about the warranty.

The viewing angles on this are better with the backlight down, that's all I can say about that. I believe I have one of the MVA panels, because side viewing angles get noticeably worse, but I think the blacks on this set are pretty decent with CALIBRATION. I seriously suggest looking at some of those calibrations posted and giving them all a try.

I believe I might have some good luck with this late September build, and I think some of the earlier owners got a little screwed over. Here's to the best.

Well, thanks for reading the post, even if you just scanned through. Let me know your thoughts on some of my questions, or just comments that you have, good or bad, we would all appreciate it, and enjoy your TV's!

geoffp1,

Personally I would return the set if I found any dead or stuck pixels. Also if vertical banding is present. Download TVblink Benchmark DVD, it's free and there are two very good tests on the DVD that will help spot dead/stuck pixels and assist in detecting vertical banding. I purchased my first TX at Electronics Expo and had the powered lockup issues, kept it for 28 days then returned it and got a Toshiba 47HL167, nice set but it had a green push in any dark scenes and shadows, no calibration could fix it. It also had one dead pixel. I retuned that set as well and went with a Samsung 46 LNT4665F. The manager at the Electronic-Expo store was very accommodating and even let me try the TVBlink DVD in the store on the set I purchased before taking it home. This one blew the other sets away. Prices have been coming down on these sets and I have seen pretty good deals on line. Best of Luck

I have to say I'm also an ex-TX user converted to the 65f series. I can't return mine (as I purchased in july, april 13 firmware) but even considering the difference is 3-400, there is no question that its worth it at that price difference. Especially given the issues with pc use.

I finally bit the bullet and bought the tx-42f430s 2 days ago at BestBuy at a decent price after I waited for 2 weeks for the price to go back down on the set.

keep a close watch on the prices at BB the offer a 60 price guarantee that i have taken advantage of twice with my unit.


even though the DVD outputs at 480p. But is the Westy upscaling the DVD?


hit info on the tx remote to see the output. prolly not upconverting unless your player is.


I got some strange bizarre garbage on the screen for a brief second, like some noise in the picture, kinda like when you adjust the tracking on a VCR, but it went away, and didn't happen for the rest of the viewing.


i think i know what your referring to, i know when i go from a sd channel to an hd channel it takes a second and i get a weird flash of color. same thing when switching components


I might get a rooftop antenna, any thoughts on this?


great! there are a few AVS site sponsors that sell nice HDtv antennas at great prices. i would get one if you dont plan on HD cable service.



Also have the S-Video standard def DirecTV on too, and it doesn't look bad at all I think. I think most new LCD's have this problem. Just use FILL to blow up the image or overscan and you'll be fine with standard def.


this is a box preset, if you do an advanced setup on your STB it will display the content at its native res (standard mode on the tx is best) but then you can fill/overscan on your own. the tx has a much better chip than most stb's do.


Go back a few pages and find all the calibration settings that were posted. I would like to thank whoever it is that did that. YOU NEED TO CALIBRATE THIS TV. From just using mostly Excaliburs settings and someone elses RGB values on Neutral, (i'll post later and thank them once I look their name up), I have noticed a substantial improvement. And Excalibur and others are right, you gotta turn down the damned backlight. 10-20 is all you need. Just turn on a lamp off to the side in the room. Maybe 30 for games.


your welcome. :) i know i shouldve posted the usage of the settings but im not going to spoon feed those of you to lazy to test them. i did it to give most of the new users good starting points on calibration. its helped me greatly until i can get a calibration DVD.


I don't know if it is dead or stuck. But it is green. The good thing is it is almost impossible to spot from where we sit, but I don't like this. Should I take it back, because the panel might be crappy and I could expect more down the road. This is why I am thinking about the warranty.


there are a few techniques to see if you can free it up (the pixel) im not sure on where they are located though.
honestly if its not dead center i wouldnt worry about it. theres a 50/50 chance a new tv may have more. but its hard to say i might consider it if it was me.


The viewing angles on this are better with the backlight down, that's all I can say about that. I believe I have one of the MVA panels, because side viewing angles get noticeably worse, but I think the blacks on this set are pretty decent with CALIBRATION. I seriously suggest looking at some of those calibrations posted and giving them all a try.


agreed i sit to the left about 7 ft from the 47" and before i was using a 40 BL and since i then im running a constant bl of 20. much much better for angles.


I believe I might have some good luck with this late September build, and I think some of the earlier owners got a little screwed over. Here's to the best.

ive said this before but people refuse to listen or absorb. this forum is a great tool. but 70% of the users come here looking for answers to problems. 20% come here with hopes to get help on purchasing, and they receive a biased view on the items they are looking for because only 10% come here to praise a product. but what most people neglect to realize that the 70% that are here to gripe do not represent the masses that have no issues.

Ok, I'm finally ready to post on the set that came today.

where are you guys getting these images are they from, calibration dvds ?
how close are you to see this ?

im confused on the last couple of pages on the testing, i have to june build would to like share but but i dont know what you all are doing.

also, i think some of you are going a bit overboard with it. the testing seems like we;re testing out a 5k$ tv.

which brings up another point, any of you seen these test images from a higher end unit to see how they compare ?

where are you guys getting these images are they from, calibration dvds ?
how close are you to see this ?


Hi res digital cameras in macro mode.


im confused on the last couple of pages on the testing, i have to june build would to like share but but i dont know what you all are doing.


There are users with issues relating to the quality of their graphics display when connected through HDMI. This should be a 1:1 type of connection, and it apparently is not. We are trying to get to the bottom of what is causing the issues with small text and loss of detail with certain color combinations. This issue has pointed to a difference in the builds that might be more than just firmware.

One of the big selling points for some with the TX series is that it excelled for computer use, as well as the more common uses. If something has changed to make this no longer true, it's important that people know so they don't get stuck in the middle of a big, expensive hassle.


also, i think some of you are going a bit overboard with it. the testing seems like we;re testing out a 5k$ tv.

which brings up another point, any of you seen these test images from a higher end unit to see how they compare ?


Some of us aren't using it the way you are, and bought it specifically for one of the reasons that make it a popular choice...computer use. It doesn't really matter what other TV's do, we bought this one based on reviews that may no longer be relevant for new builds. We're trying to get to the bottom of just why that is.

Hi res digital cameras in macro mode.



There are users with issues relating to the quality of their graphics display when connected through HDMI. This should be a 1:1 type of connection, and it apparently is not. We are trying to get to the bottom of what is causing the issues with small text and loss of detail with certain color combinations. This issue has pointed to a difference in the builds that might be more than just firmware.

One of the big selling points for some with the TX series is that it excelled for computer use, as well as the more common uses. If something has changed to make this no longer true, it's important that people know so they don't get stuck in the middle of a big, expensive hassle.




Some of us aren't using it the way you are, and bought it specifically for one of the reasons that make it a popular choice...computer use. It doesn't really matter what other TV's do, we bought this one based on reviews that may no longer be relevant for new builds. We're trying to get to the bottom of just why that is.

thanks for clarifying. i use all of my content thru HDMI but not via computer. i use a mac, so i think the comparison would be different than yours. i can get some shots but of what ?

great! there are a few AVS site sponsors that sell nice HDtv antennas at great prices. i would get one if you dont plan on HD cable service.

I can also report great results on this set with a rooftop antenna. http://www.antennaweb.org is a must-use resource.

(Note: If you already have a rooftop antenna, you probably don't need another one.. regular old "tv antennas" should work as well as "HDtv antennas".)

-Burgerleg

http://idvtinc.com/images/redgrid.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/greengrid.jpg....http://idvtinc.com/images/bluegrid.jpg

These are supposed to be perfect grids, so it's not difficult to see the geometric distortion present with small objects of a primary color on black. On other colors, the dynamic changes, however, so these results seem to be unique to to primaries (red, green, and blue). Looking at the above, it's pretty apparent as to why green and white text are used in the menus.


..This statement intrigued me, so I did another test. I found a westinghouse-displayed option in a menu with red-on-black text--the Parental Control option under the "TV" menu item. First, this is astounding and proves that their menus (at least on my set) don't suffer the same blurring, even when displaying red-on-black text:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/westmenu.jpg
...no sparkly up/down issue on that text, and no blur/bleed either!

Below is my screen displaying HDMI input with a font similar to their menu, and different colored text (straight red, straight white, straight blue, straight green). I hit the menu button and opened up the Parental Control option again to "overlay" their menu on the same display (at the top) for a good apples-to-apples comparison.
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/westmenu_vs_dvi.jpg

..even more astounding, i.e. WTF?? Their menu's "straight red" is a considerable amount brighter than what my PC is displaying (tweaked westinghouse calibration settings, and couldn't get my pc's text to even come close to the westinghouse menu's red brightness.. I don't think I'm hitting a pc/vidcard calibration issue here, as I checked pretty thoroughly).

UPDATE: Actually, after messing around with it more, I was able to match their level of red by tweaking the user calibration and setting the temperature levels of RGB to 255, 255, 255...

Plus, their red text isn't blurry, but mine definitely is... but look at my white, and you'll see that it's not nearly as blurry, which suggests that it's not a resolution issue, i.e. I'm running at 1920x1080 res. from the PC, Westinghouse set reports 1080p, and it's DVI->HDMI, so should be 1:1 pixel mapping, and the application I used to generate the text itself definitely isn't making the text blurry--on another monitor, it's extremely crisp.

-Burgerleg

I bought a 42"

date is sept 7th 2007

fw ver 5112_1.2.0

I didn't see this posted here yet when I searched. Anyway I haven't had any lockup issues yet.

iNFEKT

Put your set into E. Saver mode in the power options. Most people have been having lockups in that mode, but I haven't yet and have had the set for about 3 days. Make sure your power cord is secure in the back as well.

I also am running the same firmware and date version as you are.

Hi guys,

I'm trying to use my TX-47F430S as a HDMI hub and then a SPDIF out to my 5.1 receiver. If I plug any of my sources (cable, xbox) directly into the receiver SPDIF, I get the correct 5.1 output. If I try and do PCM or Passthrough to the TV, I get only 2 channels.

Any ideas? I searched and Google'd, but I might be using the wrong keywords.

EDIT:Whoops! Nevermind! 5.1 dosen't play on commercials. Passthrough mode DOES pass 5.1 correctly on my Motorola-based box (Comcast).

I bought a 42"

date is sept 7th 2007

fw ver 5112_1.2.0


iNFEKT, do you have your set hooked up to a PC via DVI/HDMI, and running 1080p by chance? If so, would you mind setting one of these images to tile on your desktop background, and let us know how it looks (or better yet provide a photo)?

White 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_whi.png
Blue 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_blu.png
Red 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_red.png
Green 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_grn.png

...if using firefox, right-click one of the above images (sorry they're so tiny) and select "Set as Desktop Background".. click the "Position" dropdown at the top of the dialog and select "tile".

My "defective" TX-47 looks 1:1 with the white grid, green looks fairly good too, but blue and red are all kinds of crazy (much like the images RandyT2 showed us a few posts back from his new set..). They all look perfect on all of my other (non-Westinghouse) LCDs, but none of my others are 1080p resolution.

-Burgerleg

Guys,
I have the TX-42F430s and have a problem with the SPDIF output. My DishNetwork vip722 is connected via HDMI. I get the sound on the internal speakers of the TV but nothing through the SPDIF port. If I switch to my DVD player connected through the Y Pb Pr and Stereo RCA jacks into the TV, the audio is passed through the SPDIF port to my audio receiver. Is this normal or I am missing something?

Forgot to mention: Built on June 26 2007 Firmware Version 5112_1.3.0

Guys,
I have the TX-42F430s and have a problem with the SPDIF output. My DishNetwork vip722 is connected via HDMI. I get the sound on the internal speakers of the TV but nothing through the SPDIF port. If I switch to my DVD player connected through the Y Pb Pr and Stereo RCA jacks into the TV, the audio is passed through the SPDIF port to my audio receiver. Is this normal or I am missing something?

Forgot to mention: Built on June 26 2007 Firmware Version 5112_1.3.0

Is there a SPDIF output on your box ? if so put it there.

you prolly wont get spdif out of the tv unless you use the built in tuner.

iNFEKT, do you have your set hooked up to a PC via DVI/HDMI, and running 1080p by chance? If so, would you mind setting one of these images to tile on your desktop background, and let us know how it looks (or better yet provide a photo)?

White 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_whi.png
Blue 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_blu.png
Red 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_red.png
Green 5x5 "grid":http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-06_menu_test/grid_grn.png

...if using firefox, right-click one of the above images (sorry they're so tiny) and select "Set as Desktop Background".. click the "Position" dropdown at the top of the dialog and select "tile".

My "defective" TX-47 looks 1:1 with the white grid, green looks fairly good too, but blue and red are all kinds of crazy (much like the images RandyT2 showed us a few posts back from his new set..). They all look perfect on all of my other (non-Westinghouse) LCDs, but none of my others are 1080p resolution.

-Burgerleg

Its hooked up via HDMI and running 1080p. Is this something I will need a good camera for as mine was just recently stolen.

EDIT: I attempted to take pictures with the camera I do have but it didn't turn out so well. Either way from RandyT2's images, My blue looks worse but my Red looks better.

I'll try to get a camera this weekend and get pictures for everyone.

Its hooked up via HDMI and running 1080p. Is this something I will need a good camera for as mine was just recently stolen.

EDIT: I attempted to take pictures with the camera I do have but it didn't turn out so well. Either way from RandyT2's images, My blue looks worse but my Red looks better.

I'll try to get a camera this weekend and get pictures for everyone.

Thanks, iNFEKT. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the issue? Can you live with it?

I'm a little discouraged at this point.. To me, this is definitely not acceptable, and it looks like either an entire bad batch of displays, or every single one that they've produced is bad, so my replacement-in-transit could be the same, or worse than, my current panel...

-Burgerleg

Bought my TV and it was delivered today, Very nice picture, I only have it hooked up with the a/v inputs right now from comcast cable (no hdtv yet) but am getting surewest soon.

Noticed a slight humm with the a/v inputs, waiting for the HDTV service before making further comments. Did not touch any of the default settings yet. So very good for the price ! (so far)

Thanks, iNFEKT. Out of curiosity, how do you feel about the issue? Can you live with it?

I'm a little discouraged at this point.. To me, this is definitely not acceptable, and it looks like either an entire bad batch of displays, or every single one that they've produced is bad, so my replacement-in-transit could be the same, or worse than, my current panel...

-Burgerleg

I feel the same, I guess I can live with it, although obviously I really wish it would be fixed. The pain of taking it back to the store and what not, I'll probably just sell it to a friend for cheap and upgrade to a sharp or samsung in the next year or so. The blue is so bad on my panel that it was hard to see that it was even supposed to be a grid, the entire screen just looked blue.

Build Sep 07 . 5112_1.2.0.

After seeing the TV I almost wish I purchased the 47. Again no complaints so far other than what I already mentioned and its hardly noticeable.

Will post more after getting HD hooked up, and further testing.

Could anyone who has Windows XP and has the TX-42F430S hooked up vga send me the registry data for the monitor?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\

Just right click on the TX-42F430S folder and click export.

So has anyone gotten any lockups (logo pops up and then tv turns off) while having the Sept or later firmware?

So has anyone gotten any lockups (logo pops up and then tv turns off) while having the Sept or later firmware?

I've never seen that happen with my Sept build, but I haven't been using it long or very often. Is there anything that's guaranteed to cause it to lock, or is it always sporadic?

-Burgerleg

Where can I download the latest firmware?

Where can I download the latest firmware?

Apparently you can't.. others in this thread have stated that a firmware upgrade requires an in-home visit from a Westinghouse service technician.

I've gone as far as to plug a USB jump drive into the back of my set, and noticed that the LED on the jump drive flashes when the set is powering up (possibly looking for a firmware file). Someone else said that you need to plug a laptop into the set, and the set might show up as a drive, but I'd be pretty surprised if that were true..

-Burgerleg

Can a member post their firmware on a site like rapidshare? I would like to have the latest and greatest. What good are firmware updates if users have no access to them?

TV so far has been perfect, the low hum is coming from the cable box, not a problem with the TV itself, xobx and dvd through the a/v input sound great.

My TV has been perfect so far, no lockups. Black levels leave a little to be desired though.

However, I am getting what looks like "burn-in", especially when I connect my PC to the tv, but I'm not even leaving a static image on the screen for me to see this effect. Anyone else get this problem? On regular HD channels over cable, I don't see this burn-in at all.

Could anyone who has Windows XP and has the TX-42F430S hooked up vga send me the registry data for the monitor?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\

Just right click on the TX-42F430S folder and click export.Please?

if you mean that when you turn off the TV, you can still see the picture that the PC is displaying, that's because in normal power mode, turning off only turns off the backlight. Only e.saver mode allows complete shutdown (well almost, to 1W).

Hello. I'm sorry if this is a repost, but this thread is almost 130 pages long, and the search function wasn't terribly useful. I've done a lot of googling this morning, and I'm about to the end of my rope. I wanted to check with you guys (the experts :) before I give Westinghouse a call or RMA it with Best Buy.

I have the TX-42F430S with the following firmware:
June 26, 2007 Build
5112_1.3.0

My Xbox 360 and other consoles are connected to a component switcher I got at Best Buy. The switcher is then connected to the television. My cable box (Cox Digital) is connected by way of component cable -directly- to the back of the television. It does not go through the switcher.

I've only had one problem with the television: the screen seems to shake and flicker - jiggle if you will - during certain programming or games. Usually, if the screen is abnormally white, like a load screen, or (as an example) while watching Planet Earth. Usually in landscapes or bright scenes, it flickers, although it never completely loses picture. The picture just bounces up and down. It's sort of a hard problem to describe...

I was having this "flicker" issue on my Xbox 360, which was running in 1080p. So to test, I lowered it down to 1080i. What do you know? It went away. This lead me to believe that the component cables I was using aren't the issue, or the switcher. When I tune to my HD channels on Cox Digital, I get the same problem. When watching their counterpart on non-HD, let's say Discovery, I don't have the issue.

Based on what I've seen, I have a few basic assumptions (I am not an AV person really... more of a computer networking guy):

The problem occurs only in HD
The problem is a result of progressive scan
The component cables in use are not at fault
Brightness of the picture does not truly affect this issue. I lowered the set's brightness to test.

The research I've done here and elsewhere seems to indicate that no new firmware updates are available from WH at this time. Has anyone else experienced this issue? Would testing with an HDMI cable from my digital receiver to my television help things at all?

I really like this television. I don't want to have to return it, but I will if I need to. I'm hoping this can be remedied by some configuration or setting tweaks. Any help is greatly appreciated.

what kind of component cable are you using?

I'm using the rocketfish xbox 360 component cables, and I am not getting the problem you describe.

Make sure the cables are connected nice and tight in the back.

I'm running the September build 5112 120

yeah, the blacks on this set aren't great... but look at what you get for your money, don't use a full backlight and use some of the calibration settings posted a few pages back

Picked up a Pioneer DV-400K upconvert dvd player last night

Also found a 15 dollar 3 ft open box HDMI cable made by acoustic research that was marked open box.

Anyway, I hooked it up on HDMI 1 on the set, and on 1080p mode I got this weird flicker thing on the bottom part of the screen. Switched on 1080i mode, and no flicker. Hmmm.

So I thought, must be this crappy 15 dollar HDMI cable.

Then, I hooked it up on HDMI #2, and NO FLICKER, picture is perfect on 1080p mode. The upconvert quality is pretty awesome too.

I recommend this DVD upconvert player until you get enough $$$ to get bluray or HD. It also has a little USB drive on the front for showing pictures.

This is running a Sept build 5112 10 42 inch tx-42f430s

oh my stars i was just hours away from pulling the trigger on this deal at best buy ($989 and also a 12% coupon) but from reading about 10 pages of this thread i am very reluctant... i will be using my pc via dvi-hdmi connector to this tv a lot for streaming movies, playing intense games (eve online, oblivion, team fortress 2, counter strike), and also playstation 3. but there seem to be some SERIOUS problems.

text display problems? eve online text is very small - it might be completely blurred on this TV?! and sometimes it is not able to display progressive scan (1080p) without tons of flickering? and sometimes playstation 3 HDMI doesn't even work with this tv? wtf?

i am so scared, i am glad i found this forum before dumping $1000 of my hard earned dollars on this TV (i work in fast food so that is almost 2 months salery). are the problems here overblown or real

what kind of component cable are you using?

I'm using the rocketfish xbox 360 component cables, and I am not getting the problem you describe.

Make sure the cables are connected nice and tight in the back.

I'm running the September build 5112 120

I'm using the cables supplied by my cable company for the cable box. I guess I could try to swap them out and see if that helps. The cables are connected tight. I suspect if they were not, I'd have much worse problems on my hands ;)

I'm using the cables supplied by my cable company for the cable box. I guess I could try to swap them out and see if that helps. The cables are connected tight. I suspect if they were not, I'd have much worse problems on my hands ;)

Are the cables from the cable company component?

oh my stars i was just hours away from pulling the trigger on this deal at best buy ($989 and also a 12% coupon) but from reading about 10 pages of this thread i am very reluctant... i will be using my pc via dvi-hdmi connector to this tv a lot for streaming movies, playing intense games (eve online, oblivion, team fortress 2, counter strike), and also playstation 3. but there seem to be some SERIOUS problems.

text display problems? eve online text is very small - it might be completely blurred on this TV?! and sometimes it is not able to display progressive scan (1080p) without tons of flickering? and sometimes playstation 3 HDMI doesn't even work with this tv? wtf?

i am so scared, i am glad i found this forum before dumping $1000 of my hard earned dollars on this TV (i work in fast food so that is almost 2 months salery). are the problems here overblown or real

The playstation 3 issue was mostly caused by outdated firmware, and the problem was fixed when SONY updated the firmware.

For those having the blurry text problem, getting the latest video card drivers.

Does anyone have the problem with a Sept build?

If you end up having problems with DVI to HDMI, just take it back.

The playstation 3 issue was mostly caused by outdated firmware, and the problem was fixed when SONY updated the firmware.

For those having the blurry text problem, getting the latest video card drivers.

Does anyone have the problem with a Sept build?

If you end up having problems with DVI to HDMI, just take it back.

glad to hear the ps3 issue was resolved. i will be using ps3 as a blu-ray movie player (and when big time games in 2008 such as metal gear and gran turismo 5)

i use a radeon x850pro video card. it has 2 dvi ports, so i will connect dvi-dvi to my current computer lcd, and dvi-hdmi to the tv. ideally, i will be able to game on the tv and search the web on my computer screen simultaneously. however, when not gaming i would like to do full web surfing/streaming movies through my tv only.

my best buy (los angeles) is very busy, so i assume i will be getting a sept model as all the olderr ones will likely have been sold

hopefully i dont have to take it back... i dont own a car so i am begging my friend to help me pick this one up :o

ive been going over this thread with a fine-tooth comb for maybe 40 pages and it seems to be a mixed bag. the people that are satisfied come in and make a post or 2 saying they like the tv in spite of its minor quips, whereas the dissatisfied customers (understandably) post a lot more. so it might seem like a bad tv at a first glance.

My TV has been perfect so far, no lockups. Black levels leave a little to be desired though.

However, I am getting what looks like "burn-in", especially when I connect my PC to the tv, but I'm not even leaving a static image on the screen for me to see this effect. Anyone else get this problem? On regular HD channels over cable, I don't see this burn-in at all.

I noticed a "burn-in" effect on my display as well (Sept build). I actually posted about it a few days ago. It's extremely apparent from up/down/side viewing angles. I get a "ghost" when putting a shape on the screen that's white/bright, and then quickly flip over to a black background. I don't think it's caused by the video card from my pc; if I turn off the set and turn it back on, the "ghost" disappears. If I don't turn off the set, the ghost remains indefinitely as long as the picture remains static/black. I can also get the ghost to disappear if I switch inputs on the Westinghouse set.

I wonder if this could be the reason the blacks/shadows tend to wash out on this set.. that's just my optimism kicking in, hoping that maybe a firmware upgrade might give me deeper blacks and more detailed shadows...

-Burgerleg

For those having the blurry text problem, getting the latest video card drivers.
Already tried.. latest drivers, three different video cards (one of them purchased specifically for testing this set: $61), two different DVI->HDMI cables (which work perfectly going DVI->DVI using an HDMI->DVI adapter on the HDMI end of the cable) also tried VGA input and component input at 1080i from an old Xbox. With the analog inputs, I was hit with the same blurry text and altered red/blue/green grid patterns (albeit even more blurry/jittery due to analog input). RandyT2 posted "blurry text" and "altered grid" photos from his new set, which was NOT a Sept build, and incidentally had chevron-shaped subpixels instead of square ones like mine, so this looks like a problem across the board for this model. It looks to me like they're messing with the input before sending it to the display, and apparently there is no way to get it to do a true 1:1 pixel display. If that's true, then it is definitely time to call foul... "1080p" should be 1920x1080 resolution, progressive scan, undistorted, no matter what combination of colors and/or patterns you throw at it. Every other LCD that I've owned displays perfectly in its native resolution when given digital input and set to 1:1 / Standard scaling.

Does anyone have the problem with a Sept build?
Yeah, someone does.

If you end up having problems with DVI to HDMI, just take it back.

My replacement is on its way, and should be here Monday or Tuesday. I'll run the same tests on the replacement (probably overkill at this point), and I'll post my findings. I'm trying to remain hopeful at this point.

-Burgerleg

Could anyone who has Windows XP and has the TX-42F430S hooked up vga send me the registry data for the monitor?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\

Just right click on the TX-42F430S folder and click export.

Could anyone who has Windows XP and has the TX-42F430S hooked up vga send me the registry data for the monitor?

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Enum\DISPLAY\

Just right click on the TX-42F430S folder and click export.

I'm no windows expert, but once connected and "registered" in the registry, the folder shouldn't disappear, correct? I hooked my windows pc to my TX-47 once or twice (it's a pain to do for me, sorry I won't do it again).. but the only subfolders I have in regedit under DISPLAY are:
BRG02AA
Default_Monitor
NEC3C1E
VSC4D1B
WDE140E

..no TX-47F430S folder.. are you sure you have the right name? If I had to guess from my folders above, I'd say that the westinghouse is probably "WDE140E" .. I'm attaching it as a file to this post.. hopefully you find it useful even though it's for the 47" model.

-Burgerleg

Thank you very much. If anyone else will do this, and they have the 42" version, I will also be greatful! This is helping me a lot.

oh my stars i was just hours away from pulling the trigger on this deal at best buy ($989 and also a 12% coupon) but from reading about 10 pages of this thread i am very reluctant... i will be using my pc via dvi-hdmi connector to this tv a lot for streaming movies, playing intense games (eve online, oblivion, team fortress 2, counter strike), and also playstation 3. but there seem to be some SERIOUS problems.

text display problems? eve online text is very small - it might be completely blurred on this TV?! and sometimes it is not able to display progressive scan (1080p) without tons of flickering? and sometimes playstation 3 HDMI doesn't even work with this tv? wtf?

i am so scared, i am glad i found this forum before dumping $1000 of my hard earned dollars on this TV (i work in fast food so that is almost 2 months salery). are the problems here overblown or real
Don't do it. Spend the extra $400 and get something better. I have an LG and a Westinghouse. I love the LG and REALLY regret the Westinghouse.

I've never seen that happen with my Sept build, but I haven't been using it long or very often. Is there anything that's guaranteed to cause it to lock, or is it always sporadic?

-Burgerleg

Well, the first time that it happened, it was on autosource and I just turned on my ps3. Second time, I did not have it on autosource, had my computer outputted to it and also turned on my ps3. Both times, after switching to HDMI, it says no input signal so I switched back to the tv and turned it off. I then did a reset by holding down the power button for 10 secs since sometimes it gets rid of the problem. But yea, got unlucky twice now and got lockups instead. So I'm just really curious if a Sept firmware fixes the problem permanently. Otherwise, I am really looking into switching to another TV.

Here are some images showing the ghosting I get with my set.. it's better/worse depending on the calibration I choose, and it's hardly even noticeable unless sitting to the side or above/below:

Normal display:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/display_normal.jpg

When going to black screen, here's the ghost that doesn't disappear until I either change to another input & then go back to the original input, or I power cycle the westinghouse:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/display_black_ghost.jpg

Here's a test image.. If any of you have your westinghouse hooked up to your PC, can you tell me if you see any ghosting when the image goes black? Mine does.. (wait 5 seconds for the image to cycle)
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/base_image_animated_test.gif
..be sure to view it from the sides and above/below to determine whether or not you see the ghost. I can *barely* see it usually, but can see it pretty clearly with the following settings:
Mode: Enhanced
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 0
Saturation: 100
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 50
Backlight: 100
Color Temp: Warm
R: 132
G: 140
B: 128

..if you're bold enough to venture into changing your settings to the above, and you see the ghost, scroll up or down when the ghost appears, and note that it stays in place on the screen (i.e. the westinghouse is keeping the pixels lit for some reason, even though the video card told it to display pure black.. why can't it just do what it's told?).


AND...
While I had the camera out, I decided to take a pic of the "outer glow" issue that I think I mentioned earlier.. this may be related to my "blurry text" issue, which still may or may not be a defect in my particular unit..
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/possible_blur.jpg
Note the brighter areas to the left & right of each black letter..does anyone else notice anything like the above when using HDMI input? I have two other DVI-connected LCDs, and neither of them exhibit this behavior.

-Burgerleg

I can also confirm there is something really wacked about displaying those 5 pixel boxes posted earlier. The only one I really have a problem with is the blue one. The red one does have a little problem I can only see it with my nose to the TV. I have the first batch of TVs (the one with the chevron shaped pixels) and this issue is pretty jacked up.

The easiest way to tell the difference of what SHOULD be displaying and what IS displaying on your TV is to install VNC on the computer hooked up to the TV and then connect through VNC using another computer with a monitor that does work. You can clearly see the difference. One thing of concern though is that when I do this I noticed that the pixels do not start at the top the same way that they do through VNC.

What I mean is that when I view the computer through VNC the very first line is a line of blue pixels. However, on my TV the first line I can see is not the blue line of pixels. This means that at least the top row of pixels are also missing from this display (another reason why it is not true 1 to 1 pixel mapping). I tried to mess around with settings within the display driver to maybe force the image off by a pixel or so but nothing I tried seemed to work.

Something is clearly wrong.

Well, the first time that it happened, it was on autosource and I just turned on my ps3. Second time, I did not have it on autosource, had my computer outputted to it and also turned on my ps3. Both times, after switching to HDMI, it says no input signal so I switched back to the tv and turned it off. I then did a reset by holding down the power button for 10 secs since sometimes it gets rid of the problem. But yea, got unlucky twice now and got lockups instead. So I'm just really curious if a Sept firmware fixes the problem permanently. Otherwise, I am really looking into switching to another TV.

I have a Sept 5112 20 version of the TX-42f430s. I haven't gotten any lockups switching to HDMI. I have had the set for about a week.

Don't do it. Spend the extra $400 and get something better. I have an LG and a Westinghouse. I love the LG and REALLY regret the Westinghouse.

Why is that? You gotta give some more information.

well i stopped at bb on the way back from work last night (saturday) to look at the tv and it was not impressive. it was on the wall with a lot of other TVs around it and the black levels were REALLY bad. i say black levels but this tv doesnt even display black. its actually gray. the whole image looked really washed out.

also, this morning im looking at the prices on the best buy website and it went from $989.99 last night to $1,139.99 this morning. not a hot deal anymore. im really disappointed. guess ill look for better deals

update.

new hdmi cable and ps3 update via internet to 2.01 eliminated the blackout flashes
I think it fixed my black out flashes as well. I didn't replace my HDMI cable though. I watched The Guardian and Kiss of the Dragon back to back. It didn't flash the black screen once.

I noticed a "burn-in" effect on my display as well (Sept build). I actually posted about it a few days ago. It's extremely apparent from up/down/side viewing angles. I get a "ghost" when putting a shape on the screen that's white/bright, and then quickly flip over to a black background. I don't think it's caused by the video card from my pc; if I turn off the set and turn it back on, the "ghost" disappears. If I don't turn off the set, the ghost remains indefinitely as long as the picture remains static/black. I can also get the ghost to disappear if I switch inputs on the Westinghouse set.

I wonder if this could be the reason the blacks/shadows tend to wash out on this set.. that's just my optimism kicking in, hoping that maybe a firmware upgrade might give me deeper blacks and more detailed shadows...

-Burgerleg

I agree with you- I think it's definitely more of a viewing angle problem. I had the 'burn in' problem when I looked at it from an angle, and didn't have a single problem when I looked at it full on from the front.

Why is that? You gotta give some more information.

most of the owners (or previous) have admitted that the black levels just aren't there..just too grayish. Like caffeinated, I have a 42TX that I regret. Compared to the 4066f I picked up at black friday, the image quality isn't even close, with the most important aspect, the black levels, being far superior. That and the whole startup lockup problem of the westy's. Unfortunately, I kept mine a bit too long and didn't get the extended warranty which is why I still have it. If it was 3-400 less at BB, it could be a value buy, but considering that my 4066f was the same price as the 42TX before the DTV deal, the westy is no longer a good deal that it was before and therefore can no longer recommend.

If it was say 6-700, I might be able to based on 1080p and 42"/4HDMI inputs alone..but at 1k and up no f-ing way.

most of the owners (or previous) have admitted that the black levels just aren't there..just too grayish. Like caffeinated, I have a 42TX that I regret. Compared to the 4066f I picked up at black friday, the image quality isn't even close, with the most important aspect, the black levels, being far superior. That and the whole startup lockup problem of the westy's. Unfortunately, I kept mine a bit too long and didn't get the extended warranty which is why I still have it. If it was 3-400 less at BB, it could be a value buy, but considering that my 4066f was the same price as the 42TX before the DTV deal, the westy is no longer a good deal that it was before and therefore can no longer recommend.

If it was say 6-700, I might be able to based on 1080p and 42"/4HDMI inputs alone..but at 1k and up no f-ing way.

when did you buy your 42tx?

I am considering getting the 42" version of this as a replacement for the W3213 set that I purchased on Black Friday 06 at Best Buy. It developed a bad case of black line down one side and something was rattling around inside the enclosure. They didn't have the parts so I get to pick out a new TV. I would be using the TV with a PS3, ATSC reception, maybe QAM is Burlington VT Comcast has the same channels, and DVI-HDMI to my computer (x1950 pro, worked at 1366*768) for Media center, HD-DVD's (360 Drive on Vista comp), and SD DVDs. I'm a little worried about all of the problems people have been having, but on the other hand I don't really have enough money for any other 1080p set. I haven't been able to go to a Best Buy to look at TV's yet, any advise would be appreciated.

geoffp1, I have an april build, where the VGA outperforms the HDMI connection (strange color issues), which was bought in july.

Here are some images showing the ghosting I get with my set.. it's better/worse depending on the calibration I choose, and it's hardly even noticeable unless sitting to the side or above/below:

Normal display:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/display_normal.jpg

When going to black screen, here's the ghost that doesn't disappear until I either change to another input & then go back to the original input, or I power cycle the westinghouse:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/display_black_ghost.jpg

Here's a test image.. If any of you have your westinghouse hooked up to your PC, can you tell me if you see any ghosting when the image goes black? Mine does.. (wait 5 seconds for the image to cycle)
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/base_image_animated_test.gif
..be sure to view it from the sides and above/below to determine whether or not you see the ghost. I can *barely* see it usually, but can see it pretty clearly with the following settings:
Mode: Enhanced
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 0
Saturation: 100
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 50
Backlight: 100
Color Temp: Warm
R: 132
G: 140
B: 128

..if you're bold enough to venture into changing your settings to the above, and you see the ghost, scroll up or down when the ghost appears, and note that it stays in place on the screen (i.e. the westinghouse is keeping the pixels lit for some reason, even though the video card told it to display pure black.. why can't it just do what it's told?).


AND...
While I had the camera out, I decided to take a pic of the "outer glow" issue that I think I mentioned earlier.. this may be related to my "blurry text" issue, which still may or may not be a defect in my particular unit..
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/possible_blur.jpg
Note the brighter areas to the left & right of each black letter..does anyone else notice anything like the above when using HDMI input? I have two other DVI-connected LCDs, and neither of them exhibit this behavior.

-Burgerleg

Just want to say that even though it sounds like you got your replacement before I could get a camera to take pictures, that it sounds like you are having ALL of the same issues as me.

I got the 42F430S less than a month ago and I have some mixed feelings about it. The picture is pretty nice and It seems to have some good features. However, I have some problems with it and may return it to BB.

The biggest issue I have is with HDMI being choppy every once in a while. This may be similar to the number 4 issue on the first post.

It is most noticeable during the credits crawling past on a movie. Every so often the video will stutter slightly. It is pretty minor but for some reason it really annoys me. I know it isn't the source because I have seen it through my 360, during the credits of Mass Effect. I thought maybe it was just scratches or dust on the disk. I then noticed it in the credits of a movie played from my PC through a DVI to HDMI cable. It isn't dust on the disk or anything because I can rewind and it wont happen in the same spots.

It only happens through HDMI. Anyone else see this behavior? I would rather not have to return it because I got a killer deal on it.

I got the 42F430S less than a month ago and I have some mixed feelings about it. The picture is pretty nice and It seems to have some good features. However, I have some problems with it and may return it to BB.

The biggest issue I have is with HDMI being choppy every once in a while. This may be similar to the number 4 issue on the first post.

It is most noticeable during the credits crawling past on a movie. Every so often the video will stutter slightly. It is pretty minor but for some reason it really annoys me. I know it isn't the source because I have seen it through my 360, during the credits of Mass Effect. I thought maybe it was just scratches or dust on the disk. I then noticed it in the credits of a movie played from my PC through a DVI to HDMI cable. It isn't dust on the disk or anything because I can rewind and it wont happen in the same spots.

It only happens through HDMI. Anyone else see this behavior? I would rather not have to return it because I got a killer deal on it.

pmh009

Return it dude - I owned a TX47 for 28 days and returned it. It's a nice low budget HDTV when it works. I currently own a 27in 720P and 37in 1080P Westinghouse and have never had issues with those units. This latest line from Westinghouse has too many issues - not to say other brands do not have issues as well. Do some more research, you may have to spend a little more but get something you will be happy with.

FYI -

I just bought a TX42F430S from BB -- the only test source I currently have for HD is my PS3. When the PS3 is attempting 1080p (XMB, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, etc.) the picture is jittery or shakey -- I removed the 1080p option from the PS3 display choices and the picture is steady, crisp, and clear in 720p.

Is this an issue with the TV or an issue with the PS3? The PS3 is currently connected to the TV via component cables with HDMI cables on the way. Will this potentially clear up my problem?

I got the 42F430S less than a month ago and I have some mixed feelings about it. The picture is pretty nice and It seems to have some good features. However, I have some problems with it and may return it to BB.

The biggest issue I have is with HDMI being choppy every once in a while. This may be similar to the number 4 issue on the first post.

It is most noticeable during the credits crawling past on a movie. Every so often the video will stutter slightly. It is pretty minor but for some reason it really annoys me. I know it isn't the source because I have seen it through my 360, during the credits of Mass Effect. I thought maybe it was just scratches or dust on the disk. I then noticed it in the credits of a movie played from my PC through a DVI to HDMI cable. It isn't dust on the disk or anything because I can rewind and it wont happen in the same spots.

It only happens through HDMI. Anyone else see this behavior? I would rather not have to return it because I got a killer deal on it.

I have seen the problem you are describing but I have not seen it during a credits scroll. It appears as a slight flickering/jitter near the VERY bottom of the screen, where the black bars are when you are watching widescreen format movies. This is on HDMI. It doesn't occur all the time, but seems to happen when the source is first switched to hdmi. By plugging into another HDMI port, the problem disappears, but comes back. Might be due to the fact that I bought a used 15 dollars open box HDMI cable by acoustic research.

The upscaling dvd player I use is a Pioneer DV400-K.

pmh009

Return it dude - I owned a TX47 for 28 days and returned it. It's a nice low budget HDTV when it works. I currently own a 27in 720P and 37in 1080P Westinghouse and have never had issues with those units. This latest line from Westinghouse has too many issues - not to say other brands do not have issues as well. Do some more research, you may have to spend a little more but get something you will be happy with.

FYI -

I have not experienced any lockups yet with my Sept build 5112 120 firmware TX-42f430s bought about a week ago at Best Buy with pretty heavy usage, I have really been putting it through its paces! Are these the issues you refer to?

I just bought a TX42F430S from BB -- the only test source I currently have for HD is my PS3. When the PS3 is attempting 1080p (XMB, Ninja Gaiden Sigma, etc.) the picture is jittery or shakey -- I removed the 1080p option from the PS3 display choices and the picture is steady, crisp, and clear in 720p.

Is this an issue with the TV or an issue with the PS3? The PS3 is currently connected to the TV via component cables with HDMI cables on the way. Will this potentially clear up my problem?

Is the picture jittery or shakey all over or near the edges of the screen?

What component cables you using? Try moving the connectors around in the sockets on the cable connected.

Geoffp1, I don't think I have the same issue.

For me, it really seems like the TV just can't keep up with 1080p through HDMI. It will play along fine but then at times it will become choppy for a second or two. It is almost like it is buffering or dropping some frames. The screen never goes blank or anything.

The reason I use the credits scrolling at the end of a movie is just because it is consistent motion and it makes it easy to see when the problem happens.

I have the Sept firmware and I am using 28AWG generic cables.

Is the picture jittery or shakey all over or near the edges of the screen?

What component cables you using? Try moving the connectors around in the sockets on the cable connected.

Official Sony component cables.
The screen is ONLY jittery when the resolution is set to 1080p. It's not hugely noticeable at first, but if you can find something that's static and focus on it, you can see it move... jumping up and down sort of.

For example, if you press the PS button on a controller and get the black screen with white lines/text that looks like:

-----------------------------------------------
quit game
reassign controller
turn off system
turn off controller
-----------------------------------------------

You can see the flickering and movement by looking at the white bars.

I may have a video. Hold on.

Also, the other problem I've noticed is that when I pop a blu-ray disc in, the resolution forces itself to 1080i. This is odd, considering the XMB and Ninja Gaiden Sigma both stay in 1080p display mode.

Official Sony component cables.
The screen is ONLY jittery when the resolution is set to 1080p. It's not hugely noticeable at first, but if you can find something that's static and focus on it, you can see it move... jumping up and down sort of.

For example, if you press the PS button on a controller and get the black screen with white lines/text that looks like:

-----------------------------------------------
quit game
reassign controller
turn off system
turn off controller
-----------------------------------------------

You can see the flickering and movement by looking at the white bars.

I may have a video. Hold on.

Also, the other problem I've noticed is that when I pop a blu-ray disc in, the resolution forces itself to 1080i. This is odd, considering the XMB and Ninja Gaiden Sigma both stay in 1080p display mode.

Hate to ask, but have you updated your PS3's firmware?

Geoffp1, I don't think I have the same issue.

For me, it really seems like the TV just can't keep up with 1080p through HDMI. It will play along fine but then at times it will become choppy for a second or two. It is almost like it is buffering or dropping some frames. The screen never goes blank or anything.

The reason I use the credits scrolling at the end of a movie is just because it is consistent motion and it makes it easy to see when the problem happens.

I have the Sept firmware and I am using 28AWG generic cables.

weird, I was playing Indiana Jones the last crusade on my Pioneer DV400K upscale, and watched the credits scroll, and I really looked hard and couldn't notice anything. I sit abo0ut 5 feet away from the TV. Thats with my HDMI cable.

Well, maybe I will try an exchange then. Thanks.

I may have a video. Hold on.


http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5441973750741576379&hl=en

Try about 1:16 -- it should be focused on the R&C future logo... if you watch how shakey it is, then you see white text scroll by followed by a flash, that's me changing the rez to 1080i, it becomes clear and steady, then you see the text and the flash again, it's 1080p and shakey again.

Hate to ask, but have you updated your PS3's firmware?

Yup, I'm on 2.01, I think? Whatever the latest is.

BluRay will not output 1080p on component on the ps3.

HDMI will.

BluRay will not output 1080p on component on the ps3.

HDMI will.

I figured that might be the issue with the BR -- do you think an HDMI cable will fix the jitter/twitching I'm seeing on 1080p?

I figured that might be the issue with the BR -- do you think an HDMI cable will fix the jitter/twitching I'm seeing on 1080p?

I have a friend who just told me you need HDMI for 1080p on the PS3. So yeah, give it a try.

On my xbox 360, I am able it seems to output 1080p over the component cable. At least it says that mode when I hit the info button on the remote.

Guess it is different for the ps3.

Does anyone like a lower hue setting on the 42TX, perhaps around 40-45, because it seems to make the reds not as magenta like, and they seem more natural?

Does anyone like a lower hue setting on the 42TX, perhaps around 40-45, because it seems to make the reds not as magenta like, and they seem more natural?

I had mine at 50, but I'm going to tone it down and see how it plays out... I was thinking I might've set it a bit high.

Has anyone got good black settings out of this set? I've been trying for months and and I cant seem to get it right. I really want to make it nice but if i cant this set may be sold in a year.

Well, I am pretty sure I am taking this thing back. I can't get it to stop randomly dropping frames when in 1080p. Sometimes it will be fine for quite a while, but then all of a sudden it will skip like there is dust or something on a disk.

Another thing I noticed is some weird ghosting when using DVI to HDMI from my PC. Also, I can see this faint white copy of letters to the left of the text (very noticeable in web browsing). Someone posted a picture of it a few pages back, and I see the same thing. If I turn sharpness all the way UP it gets very bad. With sharpness at zero it is much less but still visible. This only happens with DVI to HDMI.

Also, this may be just the nature of LCDs, but SDTV looks pretty bad.

Sorry, I haven't got a chance to get back earlier. Back to my VGA problem, I'm not sure if the difference is due to 42/47" or VGA/HDMI or something else, but white vertical lines on my 42" look even worse than what you guys post.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/RaceMiata/Westy%20TX-42F430S/TX_VGA2.jpg

I should clarify here that there're 3 distinct issues here around the problem...

1. The pyramid/inverse-pyramid RGB pixel layout like this:


rGb
RgB

The RGB pixels work as a group while the rgb pixels work as another. I'm yet to see any other LCD panel uses this strategy to display various intensity. Note that this happens to ALL inputs of the TX (Sept build to be specific)

2. misaligned pixel group like this:


.G.r.b
R.B.g

This is supposed to be a pixel displayed in 1. above. However, VGA input incorrectly displays the rgb pixel group off to the adjacent pixel of the RGB pixel group. Note that this applies to VGA input only, not to cable STB input or built-in tuners and I haven't seen any of your pics showing this problem. I'm yet to receive my desktop PCs from my shipment to test out DVI-HDMI, but so far I see the problem only on my VGA input.

3. blue vertical line is all over the place:

This is best illustrated by the tiled 5x5 blue grid background wallpaper. This doesn't seem an isolated problem to me. I see pics from you guys having the same problem.

I don't know what to think of the TX. Since I bought my TX at BB after Nov 1st, which under BB's holiday gift purchase return policy, I am supposed to be able to return my TX before end of Janurary 08. Since BB has the Samsung 4061 on sale right now, I tend towards returning my TX and go for the Samsung which is a much better unit. However, I've been thinking this way... For the price of the Samsung (even at the sale right now), I can keep the TX AND the Westy 24" LCD PC monitor with change. I'm thinking maybe I can suck it up and live with the TX problems and be happy with an extra 24" PC monitor to boot. With LCD panel technology getting cheaper and cheaper, there's a high chance that I'll want to upgrade whatever current LCD HDTV I have in a couple of years anyways. In that case, the Samsung 4061 is not as attractive an option.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5441973750741576379&hl=en

Try about 1:16 -- it should be focused on the R&C future logo... if you watch how shakey it is, then you see white text scroll by followed by a flash, that's me changing the rez to 1080i, it becomes clear and steady, then you see the text and the flash again, it's 1080p and shakey again.



Yup, I'm on 2.01, I think? Whatever the latest is.

After watching your video, I start wondering if one of my problems with the TX is somewhat related to yours. Here's my case... I don't have 1080p input to test at this point (my desktops with my shipment are still on the way here). However, I notice 1080i signal also stutters like in your video. It's not easily noticeable to an average person, not even with text scroll. The best situation to notice the problem is to look closely at the channel logo on the network channel broadcast (whether set top box or HD channels from built-in tuner). Yes, that's right, it happens to built-in tuner as well on my set! So at least for me, I can immediately eliminate the possibility of PS3/XBOX/Cable problem.

While we are at it, I'm wondering how the interlace and 3d comb filter settings work out for you guys? For my 42" set, turning off interlace shifts the picture about 2 pixels downwards and blurs the picture. Turning off 3d Comb filter also blurs the picture on 480i signal. There no noticeable difference with 3d comb filter on or off on 1080i signal, perhaps because at that resolution, the pixels are too small to easily notice the difference, or perhaps like many other things with the TX series Westy does this one wrong also. Oh, by the way, have you guys noticed the equalizer sliders are all inverted, where sliding down means increasing values and vice versa. Not that I use the equalizer, but while we are at it...

Well, I am pretty sure I am taking this thing back. I can't get it to stop randomly dropping frames when in 1080p. Sometimes it will be fine for quite a while, but then all of a sudden it will skip like there is dust or something on a disk.

Another thing I noticed is some weird ghosting when using DVI to HDMI from my PC. Also, I can see this faint white copy of letters to the left of the text (very noticeable in web browsing). Someone posted a picture of it a few pages back, and I see the same thing. If I turn sharpness all the way UP it gets very bad. With sharpness at zero it is much less but still visible. This only happens with DVI to HDMI.

Also, this may be just the nature of LCDs, but SDTV looks pretty bad.

White ghosting on black-letter/white-background is an artifact from too-much-sharpening. It's NOT the nature of LCDs. My experience with all LCDs (including my older 40" 720p Westy HDTV) is that sharpness setting is usually designed to give no effect on 1:1 mapping mode and therefore no ghosting with 1:1 mapping. The sharpness effect has to kick in only to fix pixel-scaling artifacts.

White ghosting on black-letter/white-background is an artifact from too-much-sharpening. It's NOT the nature of LCDs. My experience with all LCDs (including my older 40" 720p Westy HDTV) is that sharpness setting is usually designed to give no effect on 1:1 mapping mode and therefore no ghosting with 1:1 mapping. The sharpness effect has to kick in only to fix pixel-scaling artifacts.

I see the same type of thing you posted in your image above. With vga input text seems to be rendered very differently than with HDMI. I am just guessing, but I think this could have to do with the strange arrangement of pixels this LCD has. Every other LCD I have at home and at work, and every other LCD I looked at in the store has square pixels arranged one after the other and one on top of the other. Whereas if you look at the top row of pixels on this LCD, they look to be almost arranged corner to corner or something. And the text through VGA looks like it is not correcting for this strange pixel arrangement, where HDMI does. It is very noticeable if you look at a straight one pixel horizontal line also.

What I meant by "the nature of LCDs" is that standard definition content looks bad. I shouldn't condemn all LCDs, but a 480I image stretched out to 42 inches, combined with a subpar response time... well it doesn't look very good to me.

The ghosting I mentioned is 2 separate things, both when using DVI to HDMI from my PC.

1. When playing a movie from the PC, a black area will show a ghost image of what was there before. I have only seen this through HDMI from the PC.
2. When viewing black text on a non white background, there is a faintly visible white copy of each letter a pixel or two to the left of the letter. With sharpness turned way up it gets worse, but at zero it is still visible.

I have seen posts in this thread about the same things, so I know I am not alone in seeing these things. These things I could probably live with because you really have to look close to see them. The reason I am returning this set is the frame dropping and stuttering. It is most noticeable through HDMI.

I watched corrosivefrost's video and I actually saw something very similar. I turned on my 360 and played the credits from Mass Effect, and I saw a very strange stuttering just like in his video. I played the half end of the game with HDMI and didn't notice it before. I tried using different HDMI inputs and sometimes it would go away.

That problem is very different from the random frame dropping I see in movies. The scrolling text would actually jump up and down, definitely not dropping frames. But these 2 issues are unacceptable to me and I am just glad I am still within the return policy.

Maybe all TVs have their problems.

I'm not looking forward to having to return this TV. I'm really pretty sure it's not my connection via component doing it (I tried the other set of component inputs last night, with the same stuttering/twitching and now some interference from only god knows where) and I doubt that switching to HDMI will correct this problem. I sent an email to Westinghouse's customer service, but I'm not expecting much out of them. I also doubt a sufficient replacement is going to fall into my lap.

I'd my monitor from work and use that to test, but it'll only do 720p, which I haven't been able to notice any issues with. :\

I'm not looking forward to having to return this TV. I'm really pretty sure it's not my connection via component doing it (I tried the other set of component inputs last night, with the same stuttering/twitching and now some interference from only god knows where) and I doubt that switching to HDMI will correct this problem. I sent an email to Westinghouse's customer service, but I'm not expecting much out of them. I also doubt a sufficient replacement is going to fall into my lap.

I'd my monitor from work and use that to test, but it'll only do 720p, which I haven't been able to notice any issues with. :\

Do you see that during gameplay or only on that start screen? It's weird, I had never seen that behavior before until I saw your video and tried to play the credits for Mass Effect. This was with HDMI. I switched to component and didn't see it, but I did see my random frame dropping problem.

CHrisCHu, I went back and saw your posts around page 122. I thought I had seen the same problem posted before now. Anyways, it is definitely something to do with the PC VGA input, as it doesn't look like that with HDMI (although HDMI from pc has it's own problems for me)...

Do you see that during gameplay or only on that start screen? It's weird, I had never seen that behavior before until I saw your video and tried to play the credits for Mass Effect. This was with HDMI. I switched to component and didn't see it, but I did see my random frame dropping problem.

CHrisCHu, I went back and saw your posts around page 122. I thought I had seen the same problem posted before now. Anyways, it is definitely something to do with the PC VGA input, as it doesn't look like that with HDMI (although HDMI from pc has it's own problems for me)...

I first noticed it on the XMB before booting a game -- most games I've played are only 720p, so the twitching doesn't show up, but I threw in NGS (the only game I have in full 1080p) and it was shakey as all get out... if you do the PS button to get the PS3 game menu, it does it there too... you don't notice it as bad when you're playing, since things are moving anyway, but it's still aggravating.

Just joined the forum and thought I'd throw in a few comments. I have 47" with June 07 mfg date with software ver 5121_1.3.0. I am very pleased with my set and only have minor complaints. Reading through some of the posts it seems no one has gotten PIP to work which is good, that it's not just me. I thought it might have something to do with all of my components being HDMI ; cable box, xbox 360, and upconverting DVD/surround. I have had no problems with 1080p with xbox or pc and the only real complaint I have is that I have a loss of signal sometimes when playing a DVD. From reading some about this set and from the forum I have found out that it is kind of a common problem. The other problem was mounting it to the wall. The top left mounting hole on the set has what seems to be a delicate piece of circuitry in the path of the bolt. I killed a set before I found this out. So if you plan on wall mounting this set, I suggest you test the depth before you jam a screw into this component!...To me it seems like a major design flaw putting something that could kill the set that close to a mounting hole. I have not experienced the digital audio problem that every one else has written about, since all my components run through my receiver and I have the TV audio off. If I can think of anything else to post I surely will. And here is a pic of it mounted for your enjoyment.............

http://www.s95193430.onlinehome.us/Pictures/images/IMG_2431.jpg

Oh yea, pay no attention to the ghetto wiring job for the speakers. Only way they can be done at the moment.... :)

Anyone tried this 10 second power reboot bhazard is quoted as mentioning in the opening post of this thread? What exactly does it entail?

Anyone tried this 10 second power reboot bhazard is quoted as mentioning in the opening post of this thread? What exactly does it entail?

I have seen that mentioned throughout this thread as a solution to a lot of intermittent problems. I think maybe it means holding the power button for 10 seconds on the TV. I don't know why this would be different from turning it off then back on when it is in power save mode. But this really didn't seem to help any of the problems I have had.

With the problem you had, I would try plugging in your PS3 into a different input and rebooting it. This sometimes fixed the jitter I had that was similar to the video you posted. But having to do that all the time would really suck.

And here is a pic of it mounted for your enjoyment.............
One somewhat off-topic comment on your setup: you are probably asking for trouble placing your 360 right on top of your cable receiver like that. The 360 has enough heat dissipation problems by itself (I'm on my third) and placing it where additional hot air is likely blowing straight onto it may increase the probability of "red ring" damage to the unit.

Otherwise, nice setup! I wish my own was as uncluttered.

One somewhat off-topic comment on your setup: you are probably asking for trouble placing your 360 right on top of your cable receiver like that. The 360 has enough heat dissipation problems by itself (I'm on my third) and placing it where additional hot air is likely blowing straight onto it may increase the probability of "red ring" damage to the unit.

Otherwise, nice setup! I wish my own was as uncluttered.

yea, i have concerns with that as well, but really no other option right without my baby getting her hands on it... But to control heat issues I never have both on at the same time, hopefully it's good enough....

I'm thinking about getting a 42" Westinghouse, but not sure about the build quality. what's the latest on this issue? Did they change the internal components from a year ago?

Sorry people but anybody who is suggesting taking back a tv for a single dead pixel should not be shopping LCD at all. Period. One or two is a normal rate and it is what helps bring panel prices down for everybody. I absolutely guarantee that once your nose is no longer touching the screen you'll never see a dead pixel again.

For geoffp1: if you have received a build with an MVA panel then my calibration experiences won't be comparable to yours. Native backlight color temp and RGB values will vary between different panel manufacturers and types. I have the original S-IPS panel and found the factory RGB levels to be almost perfect. No need for tweaking. There is some variation from set to set though. I would imagine that the MVA variation offers somewhat better black levels in exchange for different off-angle viewing characteristics. The MVA panel type will wash out and lose it's color, whereas IPS tends to hold it's color saturation very well so long as you are only viewing on a single axis. Once you get off axis both to the side and above or below things get really ugly with IPS. With some luck maybe you MVA owners won't have the black crush issues we early adopters suffered from. It's likely a video processing issue, but I see the issue on pretty much all IPS based tvs.

What I meant by "the nature of LCDs" is that standard definition content looks bad. I shouldn't condemn all LCDs, but a 480I image stretched out to 42 inches, combined with a subpar response time... well it doesn't look very good to me.
Sorry for my misunderstanding. I thought you were refering ghosting to nature of LCDs. You're right that SD doesn't look good on LCDs in general, but at least it generally looks better on 1080 displays than 720 displays.

On the other hand, I verified that neither ghosting nor stuttering happens with VGA input. No ghosting on black/white text. No ghost image left behind a sudden black screen. And VGA image doesn't stutter. Since stuttering happen to PC thru' DVI-HDMI to you and it happens to my Comcast cable STB with HDMI-HDMI and also to the built-in TV tuner with 1080i signal, I wonder if I get ghosting with my Comcast cable STB with HDMI-HDMI. When I get home, I can try bringing up/down cable box menu and see if it leaves ghost image behind. I doubt it happens because I would've most likely noticed that long ago. I wonder if ghosting happens to 1080i output from PC thru' DVI-HDMI.

In any case, sounds like once I get my desktops (most likely this week) to test DVI-HDMI, I'll be even more disappointed with the TX.

About ghosting problem with PC thru' DVI-HDMI, I'm wondering if that's because the TX doesn't expect PC input thru' HDMI and therefore does overscan unnecessarily, which probably triggers sharpening algorithm thinking it's not doing 1:1 mapping?

The ghosting only happens from my PC with HDMI. I don't see the same thing on my 360 which is also through HDMI. It is very noticeable on a movie credit scroll where there are white letters on black. Or when a movie goes from a bright screen to pure black. And it is more visible when viewing from the side rather than straight on.

You could be right about the overscan because I did notice that a little bit is cut off on the sides of the screen.

nelsonc, after my short time with this TV, and reading about all the issues people have, I would not recommend it at all.

Now that I think about it, the only time I really noticed the ghosting is when playing dvds or other video from my PC. If I play the credits from a movie, I can even move around my white cursor on the black background and it will leave a ghost trail where the cursor goes. Again this is only with HDMI, but the VGA has worse problems...

I really wish the TXs had noise reduction settings. It's capable of it.

Now that I think about it, the only time I really noticed the ghosting is when playing dvds or other video from my PC. If I play the credits from a movie, I can even move around my white cursor on the black background and it will leave a ghost trail where the cursor goes. Again this is only with HDMI, but the VGA has worse problems...

I'm confused. So, what about the animated GIF burgerleg posted earlier? My understanding is that that test is positive to you. That animated GIF is not played as DVD or video. That's more like simply moving windows around black background. Actually, for those who have ghosting with that animated GIF, I would imagine even dragging white windows around black background also yields ghosting?

You could be right about the overscan because I did notice that a little bit is cut off on the sides of the screen.

Does that happen only to playing DVD or video or does that happen to the desktop (like maximizing the IE window say)? If your desktop doesn't perfectly fit the 1920x1080 native pixels, then what you've been seeing for PC input is not valid for comparison.

I really wish the TXs had noise reduction settings. It's capable of it.

I thought it should be the other way around. There are lots of problem with the TX but none of the problems that I know of is with lack of noise reduction settings (unless you mean lack of disabling noise reduction settings).

Last nite I stopped by my local BB once again. I went thru' all 42" LCDs they have on display and noticed the low-end model Sharp LCD indeed used the same pyramid/inverse-pyramid pixel layout stretagy. When looked up closely, I see rainbowing around gray network channel logo just like the TX. Picture quality was generally better on the Sharp but I don't how much of it was because of its better black-level.

I really wish the TXs had noise reduction settings. It's capable of it.

Indeed. The feature is built into the chipset. Westinghouse simply didn't want to implement a front end for it I suppose. They take something of a purist approach to these things in general and I approve overall. I wish they had left the sharpness control out too, but I suppose it does come in handy for some low-res content.

I'm confused. So, what about the animated GIF burgerleg posted earlier? My understanding is that that test is positive to you. That animated GIF is not played as DVD or video. That's more like simply moving windows around black background. Actually, for those who have ghosting with that animated GIF, I would imagine even dragging white windows around black background also yields ghosting?

One thing I noticed recently was that going from pure white to pure black doesn't seem to cause ghosting.. it seems to happen the worst when going from gray, or some other color, to black. I noticed ghosting all over the place when playing an old console game (Soul Blazer), via snes9x on my linux machine.

I downloaded a free hd-dvd test pattern disc (ISO image) from http://www.w6rz.net/ and then pulled out the video stream and played it back on my pc at 1080p.. one big disappointment was the lack of color in those test patterns.. they were all white-on-black, and they all looked pretty good on my TX-47.. but I'm not exactly sure how the "bursts" are supposed to look.. they might have had problems on my set, but I'm too inexperienced to know how to recognize them. Anyway, my guess is that if any of the test patterns displayed any color, they would probably look awful.

CHrisCHu, it sounds like you'll probably be getting your PCs about the same time I get my replacement unit. Should be an interesting week!

-Burgerleg

Hey All,
Bought the 42'' Westy from BB. I just could not get away from the price. Also had a 12% off coupon. The Westy set up just fine, but the PQ was not up to par. There seemed to be a white shadow across the screen. Kinda like the images were just painted on. No deep black levels at all.

Took it back to BB. Bought a Samsung 40''. Totally happy now.

RGQ

I'm confused. So, what about the animated GIF burgerleg posted earlier? My understanding is that that test is positive to you. That animated GIF is not played as DVD or video. That's more like simply moving windows around black background. Actually, for those who have ghosting with that animated GIF, I would imagine even dragging white windows around black background also yields ghosting?

What is this GIF? I didn't try it. I guess what I meant is that I have only noticed it when playing video. Like I said though, the ghosting is only bad when viewing from sharp angles. Straight on it's not too bad. If it were just that I wouldn't return it but for me, it is the other defects that I can't stand.

Hey All,
Bought the 42'' Westy from BB. I just could not get away from the price. Also had a 12% off coupon. The Westy set up just fine, but the PQ was not up to par. There seemed to be a white shadow across the screen. Kinda like the images were just painted on. No deep black levels at all.

Took it back to BB. Bought a Samsung 40''. Totally happy now.

RGQ

When I bought mine the guy said that they get a lot of Westy's back. At the time I thought they were just trying to sell me a more expensive TV.

Does that happen only to playing DVD or video or does that happen to the desktop (like maximizing the IE window say)? If your desktop doesn't perfectly fit the 1920x1080 native pixels, then what you've been seeing for PC input is not valid for comparison.

When displaying the desktop at 1920x1080 it gets very slightly chopped off (only with HDMI). I didn't even notice for a while. It is barely cut off to about the left side of the window icon on the start button. I don't know if it is the TV or the 7800gt video card or what, but at this point I don't even want to try to make it work. TV is going back on Friday.

What is this GIF? I didn't try it. I guess what I meant is that I have only noticed it when playing video. Like I said though, the ghosting is only bad when viewing from sharp angles. Straight on it's not too bad. If it were just that I wouldn't return it but for me, it is the other defects that I can't stand.

Here's the gif again:
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-09_Ghosting/base_image_animated_test.gif
..and my settings to reproduce the problem (although these probably won't give the worst ghosting, they do show ghosting on my set):
Mode: Enhanced
Brightness: 0
Contrast: 0
Saturation: 100
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 50
Backlight: 100
Color Temp: Warm
R: 132
G: 140
B: 128

..local cargo carrier just called. My replacement will be here tomorrow.

-Burgerleg

Sorry to hear that - best of luck - I would not get a replacement, see if you can something else. Even your money back. I 've seen some pretty good deals on this website www.dealnews.com

Oddly enough, I don't see ghosting with that GIF. Maybe it is just my 7800gt. It happens when playing DVDs through Windows media player, media player classic, or PowerDvd.

BluRay will not output 1080p on component on the ps3.

HDMI will.


?? i was able to output 1080p on component with the ps3 and 360

and where are the fw updates westinghouse!!!

I thought it should be the other way around. There are lots of problem with the TX but none of the problems that I know of is with lack of noise reduction settings (unless you mean lack of disabling noise reduction settings).There's no setting to enable or disable noise reduction, even though westinghouse lists it as one of the features =\.

There's no setting to enable or disable noise reduction, even though westinghouse lists it as one of the features =\.
Maybe Westinghouse was referring to enabling/disabling interlace and 3d comb filter settings. My point was that the TX has far bigger problems to keep me busy than worrying about noise.

..local cargo carrier just called. My replacement will be here tomorrow.

-Burgerleg

My truck driver just called before dinner. He'll deliver my shipment first thing in the morning. I don't have high hopes for the PC DVI-HDMI result. Just hope it won't take me too long to get my 7900GS (SLI'ed) to run 1:1 mapping first, and without overscan... [finger crossed]

When displaying the desktop at 1920x1080 it gets very slightly chopped off (only with HDMI). I didn't even notice for a while. It is barely cut off to about the left side of the window icon on the start button. I don't know if it is the TV or the 7800gt video card or what, but at this point I don't even want to try to make it work. TV is going back on Friday.

Have you run the auto-adjustment under PC menu? Running inaccurate clock definitely creates all kinds of artifacts. If you're already running the right timing, then it sounds like you're indeed running overscan. Again, with ovescan you can also get all kinds of artifacts.

Got my shipment way early this morning. Fired up my newer of the 2 PCs and the TX recognizes my PC thru' DVI-HDMI no problem. First thing to check was to make sure it maps pixels 1:1 perfectly and it did. Next, see if white vertical line gets split like it did with VGA input and no it doesn't, just like what you guys found. Next, known problems with DVI-HDMI:

1. ghosting with text on non-saturated background:
yes, I do see it. Only happens on non-saturated background because the ghost image saturates it. However, when I turn down sharpness to 0, text ghosting mostly (if not entirely) disappears on any background. Most LCD panels turn off sharpening automatically on 1:1 mapping. It would be nice if TX does that, but as long as the problem doesn't appear with 0 sharpness I'm happy.

2. Ghost image when quickly switch to dark background:
yes, I do see it. It happens only in certain situations. In my case, it happens when I run CheckeMON (it's a good little utility to check LCD panel by the way) and bring up the "Power Supply" test. This test is mainly for CRT monitor but the big white/black patch alternating pattern seems to be the key triggering the ghost image.

3. Image stuttering:
Now this one I think it might be an isolated problem with my TX. Like I mentioned before with cable STB HDMI input, the whole screen will jump up 1 scan line for a fraction of a second. How often it jumps is random, but PC and cable STB happen exactly the same way. With a normal TV programming, it's not easy to notice so that's why I have been thinking it could well happen to all TX'es but people just don't notice it. However, with single-pixel thin text with PC input, there's no way nobody else notices it so I think I'm the only one. Looks like I'll have to exchange it if possible. My purchase (from Nov 11th) should be eligble for BB's holiday return policy (good til end of January), but I don't know about exchange...

3. Image stuttering:
Now this one I think it might be an isolated problem with my TX. Like I mentioned before with cable STB HDMI input, the whole screen will jump up 1 scan line for a fraction of a second. How often it jumps is random, but PC and cable STB happen exactly the same way. With a normal TV programming, it's not easy to notice so that's why I have been thinking it could well happen to all TX'es but people just don't notice it. However, with single-pixel thin text with PC input, there's no way nobody else notices it so I think I'm the only one. Looks like I'll have to exchange it if possible. My purchase (from Nov 11th) should be eligble for BB's holiday return policy (good til end of January), but I don't know about exchange...

That happens with my PS3. Does not happen when watching Blu Ray or gaming, just in the XMB.

-- Alex

Hi all,

I've read through this entire thread, and I have a few questions.

The Setup:
westy 47 software version: 5121_1.3.0
comcast motorola hd dvr via HDMI@1080i
XBox 360 via HDMI@1080p

I have read that a lot of people have opted to use the VGA cable to output 1080p w/the hd-dvd add-on.

I would like to avoid using the VGA cable if possible, as I believe the picture quality via HDMI is superior, and here's where I'm starting to run into issues.

I am able to pass through 5.1 DD from my comcast STB back to my receiver via the optical out to my yamaha receiver. I have no trouble doing this, works and sounds great.

I do not have an hdmi switching receiver so I'm forced to run it all through my television. My XBox will send the audio through the television but I run into the known issue of it only being seen as a 2 channel feed.

This doesn't work for me because basically everything is halfway working. Cable completely works the way its supposed to, xbox doesn't do anything other than the 2 channel audio (but great picture). I will be getting the hd-dvd addon for christmas, and I am very interested in keeping it HDMI if at all possible, so: *besides getting the vga cable*, and buying an HDMI switching receiver, what are my options?

I am unaware of a way to output video via HDMI and set the xbox to pass through audio. Post #2294 states that cavalry12 is using an hdmi/dvi adapter, which suggests to me that audio must be out a seperate connection..right? What am I missing? I am not opposed to purchasing an hdmi switch which does hdmi in/toslink out...if thats what I have to do, I'm just curious as to whether or not I am overlooking something here. In the past, I have used optical out on the cable box but hdmi for picture. I know its possible to do, but will the xbox360 do it, and if so, how? FWIW, this is NOT an xbox360 elite, simply an arcade with the newer falcon chipset and my old 360's hdd hooked up to it.

I have been using the 360 as an htpc of sorts for a while, I have a 500 gb mybook hooked up to it and I have been watching hd .wmv's in 5.1 for quite some time, up until switching over to HDMI actually. Is it that the xbox 360 will not output anything other than discreet 2 channel audio via hdmi unless my source material is very specifically coming from the hd-dvd addon? I hope this isn't too confusing, and that this question hasn't been answered already. Thanks in advance for the patient answer all. Cheers.

However, when I turn down sharpness to 0, text ghosting mostly (if not entirely) disappears on any background. Most LCD panels turn off sharpening automatically on 1:1 mapping. It would be nice if TX does that, but as long as the problem doesn't appear with 0 sharpness I'm happy.
After testing with different other background colors, I realized that text ghosting never goes away completely even with 0 sharpness, exactly as pmh009 described.

Update: For the finding above, somehow my TX managed to have its sharpness setting stuck at some high value. Changing to a different mode or explicitly changing the sharpness setting had no effect. Since then I have done some fiddling and rebooted the PC and I managed to get 0 blur black text on any background once again.

Just did a full test with CheckeMON and found something new. I suggest you google "CheckeMON" and download this small but very helpful test utility. I just finished all 10 tests and have new findings with my TX. For the "Color Gradient" test, an 8-bit panel should be able to show smooth intensity changes on all 8 rows. With a 6-bit panel, the last row or 2 will show no difference for certain primary color. The TX with DVI-HDMI input did pretty bad on the 8th row. Since VGA input is OK, that means the TX can theoretically reproduce 8-bit primary colors. So what went wrong with DVI-HDMI input (as opposed to VGA)?

Then, with the "Color Spectrum" test, I found some artifacts that appears on all but 2 modes: Sports and User. Supposedly, you should see a smooth transition throughout the entire screen. But with any modes other than those 2, you'll see an abrupt transition along a line going from the centre towards upper left corner, regardless of the mode settings. Does that means each mode contains some hidden settings that the user cannot control?

If you pay attention enough, you'll probably notice similar abrupt transition (but just barely noticeable) on the other 3 directions, even on Sports or User mode. It's basically like a big "X" across the entire screen (although very faint). No other LCD or CRT I've run CheckeMON on shows this kind of problems. Even my older 40" Westy 720p HDTV or my recent 24" Westy 1920x1200 LCD PC Monitor doesn't have this problem.

The new set came today. I hooked it up, and had the same exact "blurry text" and non-perfect grid problem as I had before (as well as ghosting, and the "sharpness" issues previously mentioned). The new set I received was a Sept build as well.

I called their tech support, and the first guy suggested that I use a "dual link" hdmi cable. No dice there--I looked it up online afterward, and I don't believe this set even supports that type of connector.

Second tech actually looked at this thread, and suggested that I contact their service dept via e-mail and ask if the tech or engineering teams could take a look. So I did. Hopefully they'll have some better news for those of us picky enough to notice these problems..

-Burgerleg

just a few things here...on the tx-42f430s sept build 5112 120

for those of you who want your screen to look better with deeper blacks and richer colors, light your room properly

i found putting a dim, incandescent lamp behind the tv gives great blacks and colors with proper calibration, and allows you to keep a low backlight, and is easier on your eyes...you'll be surprised at the improvement

make sure all other lights are off, ya know like you are at the movies...you'll have this nice glow behind the set, it looks fantastic...which is of course, if your setup allows it, but do try it out!

ALSO

on my pioneer dv400k upscaler dvd, on 1080p mode I get this weird flicker near the bottom edge of the screen when watching in standard mode, kinda like the adjusting the tracking effect on a VCR. I can usually make it go away by switching to 1080i then back.

it does not flicker on 1080i or any other modes, only on 1080p. I made it go away by turning off the TV and powering on/off the dvd player. Kind of a weird thing, I do have a pretty cheap 15 dollar HDMI cable by acoustic research, could this be causing the problem? I might go to a DYNEX or Monster Cable to see if it stops, otherwise...might have to take either the DVD or the TV back.

I will not stand for that flickering! Especially on widescreen formatted DVD's.

Thanks for the read.

what are your calibrated settings for the incandescent lamp setup?

Just got the 42 inch Westy HD TV , are there any firmware updates? If so where are they located and how do I get them installed?

Do you hold the power button while the TV is off (amber light) or on (blue light)? I've tried it both ways and nothing. Westinghouse support had me unplug the power cord for 30 seconds to force a reboot (but still didn't fix my problem).
I think rebooting the Westy is normal, see the TV is always on even when you turn it off on the remote it stays on just it's in stand by mode and every once in a while the TV's OS will hung up from being on to long and will need a fresh reboot just like a windows based PC

Just got the 42 inch Westy HD TV , are there any firmware updates? If so where are they located and how do I get them installed?

Just got the 42 inch Westy HD TV , are there any firmware updates? If so where are they located and how do I get them installed?

None. Pretty much don't expect any (owner installable) either.

The new set came today. I hooked it up, and had the same exact "blurry text" and non-perfect grid problem as I had before (as well as ghosting, and the "sharpness" issues previously mentioned). The new set I received was a Sept build as well.
I'm not too surprised that happens, but of course I was hoping the replacement set you get would have everything solved.

So, I played around a bit more and I found out that I indeed manage to get 0 blurr black text on any background if I keep using 0 sharpness and never chnages to a mode with sharpness settigs ther than 0. The reason I say that is that I was able to get 0 blurr black text on any background at first. Then at some point having switched to another HDMI input (for my cable STB input) and subsequently changing to different "mode" I tailored to cable STB input, I then switched back to PC (DVI-HDMI) input and the blurr text came back! And that even swithing back to the mode I tailored for PC input with 0 sharpness didn't help. And then i manually turned up and down the sharpness setttings with no effect. It seemed like somehow the TX software incorrectly left the sharpness setting as the one I used for the cable STB and failed to change back to my tailored setting for PC input. After some fiddling around, and finally rebooting the PC (in order to have the TX recognize the PC input from scratch I guess) then the effect of 0 sharpness comes back (i.e. no blur black text).

I guess my point here is that if you still get black blurr text, try setting the mode to 0 sharpness and don't make it change to any other mode with non-zero sharpness, and then reboot the PC. Oh, but red text still blurs.

So at least for now, the biggest problem for me is the image stuttering with ALL inputs, including built-in tuner at 1080i.

ALSO

on my pioneer dv400k upscaler dvd, on 1080p mode I get this weird flicker near the bottom edge of the screen when watching in standard mode, kinda like the adjusting the tracking effect on a VCR. I can usually make it go away by switching to 1080i then back.

it does not flicker on 1080i or any other modes, only on 1080p. I made it go away by turning off the TV and powering on/off the dvd player. Kind of a weird thing, I do have a pretty cheap 15 dollar HDMI cable by acoustic research, could this be causing the problem? I might go to a DYNEX or Monster Cable to see if it stops, otherwise...might have to take either the DVD or the TV back.

I will not stand for that flickering! Especially on widescreen formatted DVD's.

Thanks for the read.
When you say flicker, does the whole screen uniformly jumps up a scan line or 2? I'm still not 100% sure if my screen flickering problem is the same as everybody else's, because mine happens on ALL inputs including HDMI at 1080i and 1080p, and even the built-in tuner with 1080i signal.

When you say flicker, does the whole screen uniformly jumps up a scan line or 2? I'm still not 100% sure if my screen flickering problem is the same as everybody else's, because mine happens on ALL inputs including HDMI at 1080i and 1080p, and even the built-in tuner with 1080i signal.

I think this will be one of my last posts here, so thanks to everyone for your feedback and help..

I had my friend bring over his PS3 to hook up to my new set. Brand new HDMI-to-HDMI cable (3' long). Still had the blurry blue text on a black background (no surprise there). Red and green were also blurry.. identical to the PCs that I've had connected at 1080p via DVI->HDMI..

But one more thing we noticed was during the opening of Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (he had it on Blu-Ray).. there's a scene where it pans over a field of wheat (Harry is in a playground), and it was extremely stuttery/jumpy--I might even call it flickery. I was reminded of the talk about rolling credits and flicker in this thread. He said that on his Vizio 47" (he purchased at Wal Mart for $1,320), he has no stuttering on that part; it's totally smooth.

He also noticed gray "graininess" with my set in the gray areas and shadows.. I think this may be due to what I refer to as the ghosting issue (from the animated gif I posted ealier), where the set doesn't completely black-out some pixels, but instead leaves them gray indefinitely. He said his Vizio doesn't look grainy at all.

He said that the Westinghouse had brighter colors than the Vizio, however.

While I'm at it, let me give you more good things about this set, so as to appear unbiased (as someone previously mentioned here, people rarely post about the good features, and usually focus on the bad).. The set is big, and it's cheap, and it has 4 HDMI inputs, and the menus are pretty nice, and the ATSC+analog(+QAM?) tuner is a nice feature. The built in speakers sound good enough for me (although I'm not a huge audio freak), and I like that you can turn off the LED on the front, to avoid distraction/annoyance when watching videos.. The spine and cabling on the sides is a great feature (although in my room, it sucks because all the digital stuff that I use is on the "visible" side of the set and I'd prefer it on the other side.. but visibility of cables due to my room orientation is not Westinghouse's fault).

My friend *really* didn't like the ghosting issue (was pretty noticeable/bad with his PS3's menu), and said that the ghosting was the most annoying part for him, and that he'd return it just based on that alone. I can live with the ghosting, because I know that I can adjust the settings and make it virtually disappear (although I have to sacrifice of color vibrance to kill the ghosting).

What I can't forgive is the blurry text issue (talking about blue text on black background, not black text on any-other-color-background).

Something else I noticed over the last few weeks of messing with it.. like CHrisCHu mentioned earlier, sometimes the calibration settings seem to cross-migrate, or store incorrectly, or something.. I think when I was tweaking the RGB values to 255,255,255, I'd go to another setting, then go back to the previous setting, then crank them down, and then switch inputs and switch back, and the 255,255,255 would magically reappear.. something weird like that.

After weeks of extensive testing, and troubleshooting from various sources and on different builds of these two models, I definitely think that this set's many issues warrant a disclaimer on the front of this thread, whatever that entails, and if they can't fix a lot of these problems (particularly the blurry text issue), then I don't see how they can advertise this set as 1080p.

My own path is pretty clear.. there are far too many flaws with this set's core functionality for my tastes, and I'll likely not be happy with it until they are able to fix the issues (IF they are), so I'm going to try to get my money back, or return it for a different brand, or sell it used and apply the money toward a different brand. I don't think it was a bad decision on my part to buy the set in the first place; at the time, the online reviews said that this set was awesome for the price, it was "true 1080p" resolution, and the only problems noted were a green push and washed out shadows. If I had to do it again, I definitely wouldn't buy it, and in the future I'll be more apprehensive of online reviews (especially by CNet), and I'll probably stay away from buying things unless they're at least a year old (give more time for bugs to be discovered).

I hope the rest of you have better luck with your sets, or can get a firmware fix soon.

-Burgerleg

Just wanted to add- thanks for all the input guys. i adjusted the color settings on my 42", and everything looks great now. I have my computer hooked to the TV thru the HDMI, and it works flawlessly. No lockups or reboots. Just crossing my fingers.

Just wanted to add- thanks for all the input guys. i adjusted the color settings on my 42", and everything looks great now. I have my computer hooked to the TV thru the HDMI, and it works flawlessly. No lockups or reboots. Just crossing my fingers.

Here I was ready to call it quits, and then you have to go and use a word like "flawless..."

I don't get lockups or reboots either, but the blue+red text, and blue+red grids on this test image look horrible on my Westinghouse(s):
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-15_test/test.png

..how do they look on your set? If they're flawless, would you mind sharing your calibration settings, firmware/build date, your model # (or just make sure it's TX-42F430S), and whether or not your subpixels are square or chevron-shaped? For extra credit, please provide close-up photos of the pixels. On my set, I also see some "glow" around all the letters on the gray background, and more glow around the green-on-white and red-on-white. The white background text has glow on the other colors (and black) too, but it's not as apparent as the green & red text on white. On the black background, the green text and white text also exhibit glow/blur, but it's hardly noticeable compared to red or blue on black. Same goes for the grids.

Thanks,

-Burgerleg

Here I was ready to call it quits, and then you have to go and use a word like "flawless..."

I don't get lockups or reboots either, but the blue+red text, and blue+red grids on this test image look horrible on my Westinghouse(s):
http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-15_test/test.png

..how do they look on your set? If they're flawless, would you mind sharing your calibration settings, firmware/build date, your model # (or just make sure it's TX-42F430S), and whether or not your subpixels are square or chevron-shaped? For extra credit, please provide close-up photos of the pixels. On my set, I also see some "glow" around all the letters on the gray background, and more glow around the green-on-white and red-on-white. The white background text has glow on the other colors (and black) too, but it's not as apparent as the green & red text on white. On the black background, the green text and white text also exhibit glow/blur, but it's hardly noticeable compared to red or blue on black. Same goes for the grids.

Thanks,

-Burgerleg

Heh, I think the reason I called it flawless is because I'm not very demanding. I never noticed (or cared to notice) whether my subpixels are square or chevron, because I never sit that close, and from 10' away, it looks all good! :) I've never really noticed any 'glowing' around the letters. My biggest complaint is the 'burn-in', but that's only apparent from an off-angle, and within 2 feet of the screen.

I have a Sept. '07 model, and it is a TX-42F430S model. I use an NVIDIA 7900 GT that's attached with a DVI-HDMI cable from Monoprice. My user's settings I tweaked slightly from the provided standard 'movie setting' that came with the Westy.

Heh, I think the reason I called it flawless is because I'm not very demanding. I never noticed (or cared to notice) whether my subpixels are square or chevron, because I never sit that close, and from 10' away, it looks all good! :) I've never really noticed any 'glowing' around the letters. My biggest complaint is the 'burn-in', but that's only apparent from an off-angle, and within 2 feet of the screen.

I have a Sept. '07 model, and it is a TX-42F430S model. I use an NVIDIA 7900 GT that's attached with a DVI-HDMI cable from Monoprice. My user's settings I tweaked slightly from the provided standard 'movie setting' that came with the Westy.

The burn in is particularly noticeable and annoying, especially when watching a show like PBS' Charlie Rose which has nothing but a black background. I'm using an Nvidia 8600 card and a DVI to HDMI cable.

I never noticed (or cared to notice) whether my subpixels are square or chevron, because I never sit that close, and from 10' away, it looks all good! :) I've never really noticed any 'glowing' around the letters.

He wasn't asking about the pixel shape because the shape makes any difference, he was asking in an attempt to identify whether or not you and he had the same set.

From 10' away, it must be awfully difficult to read small text. But in any case, you apparently have a set with the same issues (Sept Build) as he. So, how does that image look? Can you read the blue on black text at all, or is it just a "puddle of fuzz" on your screen? I lucked out and got an April build, and while the red and blue on black is a little fuzzy, it's still quite readable. Black on white or white on just about anything is perfect for me on this earlier build, as are most other color combinations.

If you ever plan to use a Sept build Westy 42 as a PC monitor, "flawless" is probably about the most inappropriate word one could use to describe the performance. But if yours is different, you should do the group a favor and post some photos of that demo image so we can try to figure out why / how you got a good one.

What's the deal here? The review on CNET didn't mention ANY of the issues all of you are having. Wouldn't the experts over there have noticed the things you guys are? WHY IS THEIR NO MENTION OF ANY OF THESE ISSUES BY ANY REVIEWER OUT THERE

I have no issues with this set and haven't experienced any flickering or whatever you guys call it. The text is defined and not "glowy".

Did all of you guys here just get some bad batches or something?

I have the September build.

Hey i'm just wondering, How long can I expect this set to last? I have seen a few posts of people saying that one day it just stopped working. And lastly, have they made any hardware updates since the first few batches came out or just firmware? I'd like to know because I feel early adopters always get screwed and are left salty........is my sept build the latest firmware?

LASTLY, are these issues just going to bother really technical AV people? I'm not one of these obviously since I see nothing wrong with this set. You guys have really freaked me out.

What's the deal here? The review on CNET didn't mention ANY of the issues all of you are having. Wouldn't the experts over there have noticed the things you guys are? WHY IS THEIR NO MENTION OF ANY OF THESE ISSUES BY ANY REVIEWER OUT THERE


Because the reviews are old and there now seems to be at least 2 different pieces of hardware out there with the same model number. And reviewers miss things on occasion as well.


I have no issues with this set and haven't experienced any flickering or whatever you guys call it. The text is defined and not "glowy".

Did all of you guys here just get some bad batches or something?

I have the September build.


That's what the folks here are trying to find out. But if you are using yours with a computer, please post a photo of the image posted by Burgerleg so we can see why yours is better than the other Sept. Builds.


LASTLY, are these issues just going to bother really technical AV people? I'm not one of these obviously since I see nothing wrong with this set. You guys have really freaked me out.

If you are never going to use it with a computer, and you can't see any of the issues that others have had with it, then it'll probably be fine for you. Some folks bought this set specifically due to those good reviews given for computer use and the "1080Pure" marketing. So far, I haven't seen a "Pure" 1080p display on any set with this label, not even my own.

I don't use it for my PC but I do use it for my Xbox 360 through VGA. It's outputting in 1080p and I haven't noticed any image issues.

The blacks are bad though.

Also one last question, my stand was already installed when I opened the box , do all models come like this or did I get a returned one?(I have TX-42)

stand comes installed

Hey, I have a tx-42f430s and I've had it for about 2 months now and for some reason anytime i try to use anything through HDMI it says "No input signal", but it'll detect it, I know because i have it on the auto detect signal and itll switch over the the corresponding input when i turn it on (i.e. PS3 or my hdmi cable box) but it'll say no input available. Any advice would be greatly appreciated, especially since Bestbuy isnt able to send anyone over to my house until january 5th.
Thanks

Anyone else have some autosource problems?

Sometimes when I start my xbox360 the TV won't start up but other times it will. Not really that big of a deal but still annoying.

I don't use it for my PC but I do use it for my Xbox 360 through VGA. It's outputting in 1080p and I haven't noticed any image issues.

The blacks are bad though.

Also one last question, my stand was already installed when I opened the box , do all models come like this or did I get a returned one?(I have TX-42)

I tried PC via vga input, and it looked slightly worse.

Can anyone with a "good" set (particularly you, XxProtocolxX) take a close-up photo of the following image displayed on their set (particularly the blue-on-black text & grid), and prove that it works in 1080p and doesn't contain the problems that I experienced on the two sets that I received (both Sept build, both TX-47F430S, from PCNation).

http://witt.tv/images/20071129_LCD_Comparison_Photos/2007-12-15_test/test.png

Thanks,

-Burgerleg

what are your calibrated settings for the incandescent lamp setup?

settings for the incandescent lamp behind the tv setup for better contrast and color...at least I think it looks better that way

brightness 46
contrast 74
saturation 60
hue 47
sharp 0
backlight 10
color temp neutral RGB all 128

the backlight can go a little higher, no more than 20 for the backlight...you will like how this will look, im gonna take a picture of the room to show you all. I calibrated with the THX video test patterns on the Revenge of the Sith Star Wars Episode 3 DVD. I just "got" Avia, so I'm gonna give that whirl too

hope you like my settings and hope you can get a set up like mine.

EDIT: here are pictures

http://www.autocosmica.com/forum/Picture 001.jpg
turn down the lights...
http://www.autocosmica.com/forum/Picture 008.jpg

I'm not really sure what those two blue dots are below the set. They only showed up in the picture.

When you say flicker, does the whole screen uniformly jumps up a scan line or 2? I'm still not 100% sure if my screen flickering problem is the same as everybody else's, because mine happens on ALL inputs including HDMI at 1080i and 1080p, and even the built-in tuner with 1080i signal.

ill try and be very clear and specific here

i don't get this flickering on 1080i on over the air broadcasts

i don't get this flickering on 1080p xbox 360 on component

i DO get this flickering on HDMI on the panasonic DV-400K upscaler DVD

the flickering can best be described as a very thin line that appears near the bottom of the screen, and the thin line flickers. the line has been blue, and it has been white. you can see it sitting 5 feet away. I can make the flickering go away SOMETIMES by switching on the DVD player from 1080i back to 1080p. I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THE FLICKERING on 1080i or below on the DV-400K upscaler. The DV-400K is my only HDMI device. I'd like to try my friends PS3 on HDMI to see if I get it...i just thought of that, i wonder if he can come over tomorrow.

OK, enjoy your TV's people, remember we got a bargain.

The blue dots are your Wii sensor bar I think.

:D

-- Alex

ill try and be very clear and specific here

i don't get this flickering on 1080i on over the air broadcasts

i don't get this flickering on 1080p xbox 360 on component

i DO get this flickering on HDMI on the panasonic DV-400K upscaler DVD

the flickering can best be described as a very thin line that appears near the bottom of the screen, and the thin line flickers. the line has been blue, and it has been white. you can see it sitting 5 feet away. I can make the flickering go away SOMETIMES by switching on the DVD player from 1080i back to 1080p. I HAVE NEVER GOTTEN THE FLICKERING on 1080i or below on the DV-400K upscaler. The DV-400K is my only HDMI device. I'd like to try my friends PS3 on HDMI to see if I get it...i just thought of that, i wonder if he can come over tomorrow.

OK, enjoy your TV's people, remember we got a bargain.

I get that with DIVX and XVID on my PS3. I found the solution for me was to start the movie and then turning the TV off and then on. Ta da, no more line at bottom of the screen. Try it and see if it works.

Later,

Alex

Hey do any of you know how Westinghouse was able to offer this set at the price it does?

No advertising maybe?(That's a large reason why you pay a bigger sum for brand name products)

Also, how many of you think that this is a quality made set that will last AT LEAST 5 years?(or 50,000 hours)

......And burger, I can't hook up my PC to the TV due to the fact that it's in a completely different room, but all DVD test patterns looked perfect.(Running from an Xbox 360 HD-DVD via VGA) Sorry I can't post up a picture though.

I just returned my Westy to BB. After having it about 2 months, sometimes right away from start up to after running for some time, the screen display would flicker and sometimes would cut out all together, audio still going, rest of unit working just no display. The tech said it is a power supply issue and authorized me to return it under the factory warranty, they are getting me another one mailed in. Does that diag sound correct? It came from all inputs, and was VERY VERY random. sometimes doing a reset would work, sometimes it would not.

Hey do any of you know how Westinghouse was able to offer this set at the price it does?

No advertising maybe?(That's a large reason why you pay a bigger sum for brand name products)

Also, how many of you think that this is a quality made set that will last AT LEAST 5 years?(or 50,000 hours)

......And burger, I can't hook up my PC to the TV due to the fact that it's in a completely different room, but all DVD test patterns looked perfect.(Running from an Xbox 360 HD-DVD via VGA) Sorry I can't post up a picture though.

Viewing test patterns and viewing the images I posted are two different things, apparently. Can you get the test image I posted onto your xbox somehow and tell me how that looks? If not, would it be way too much trouble to try to get your computer into your tv room for a test?

Incidentally, I mentioned this before--I downloaded an HD-DVD test pattern disc from w6rz.net, tried it on my pc, and it looked ok.. but that test dvd did NOT contain patterns of blue-on-black or red-on-black (it only had white-on-black and gray-on-black, which looked fine). So the test patterns on the dvd I downloaded were no good for testing any of my issues. It's no a shock to me that you think the dvd test patterns you ran were good... it just doesn't give me any proof that the problem is isolated to one batch or just a few sets.

-Burgerleg

I just returned my Westy to BB. After having it about 2 months, sometimes right away from start up to after running for some time, the screen display would flicker and sometimes would cut out all together, audio still going, rest of unit working just no display. The tech said it is a power supply issue and authorized me to return it under the factory warranty, they are getting me another one mailed in. Does that diag sound correct? It came from all inputs, and was VERY VERY random. sometimes doing a reset would work, sometimes it would not.

So does this mean if something happens I can return the TV to Best Buy and not have to ship it out?(As long as it's under a year)

Burger, i'll do the test when I get home from work or sometime during the weekend.

If your TV is under the factory Warranty you can bring it to your Best Buy store. I was about 40 days over the 30 day return policy, what you need to do if your past that time is call Best Buy's 800 number and set up a time for a tech to come look at it. If parts are not available they will give you a exchange authorization to bring it to your BB store. BE CAREFUL!!! This is where is gets tricky. I brought all my original papers from purchase and the form the tech gave me. They will give you store credit for the item amount or give you a even exchange for the same TV. When I was there, we were finishing up, (they dont carry the 42 Inch in store, they had to order it) and the manager says "can I see your receipt? I gave it to him and he said "Oh Jesus this is a .com order?!?!? Who told you to come here?!?!" I was like uhhhhhh your tech did. After a little bit of a panic on there part, they were very friendly and got it resolved and my TV is on its way. apparently they have issues with in store orders to .com orders. If you bought the item in store you will be fine, it might be a little complicated if you bought it online.

From reading a few pages of this thread I'm wondering if Westinghouse allows users to DL firmware updates and put them on a USB to update the TV.

Many say no but I honestly can't believe this.

From reading a few pages of this thread I'm wondering if Westinghouse allows users to DL firmware updates and put them on a USB to update the TV.

Many say no but I honestly can't believe this.

Not to this day, They are not available anywhere and I wouldn't count on it.

How do we get into the service menu for the TX series?

-- Alex

Not to this day, They are not available anywhere and I wouldn't count on it.

Then why do they even have a service port? :confused:

I've noticed that the image doesn't completely fit the screen for this TV. The left side of the screen has a small black bar but no other side does.

Am I the only one with this?

I've noticed that the image doesn't completely fit the screen for this TV. The left side of the screen has a small black bar but no other side does.

Am I the only one with this?

How small is "small"? When I was testing, I used a neoya component->vga adapter and had horrible results with trying to get the image to fit on the screen, but after I hooked up the component directly, I realized it was probably the neoya adapter I was using (probably didn't like 1080i), and probably had something to do with incompatible refresh rates. VGA from the PCs that I had down there were seemingly fine, but maybe I just didn't notice any black bars because my primary focus was on trying to get rid of the blue-on-black and red-on-black blurriness.

If I were you, I'd try hooking in via HDMI and see if the problem disappears.

By the way, were you ever able to get that test image on your xbox360 to see if you have the same blurry blue-on-black and red-on-black problem that I have?

Thanks,

-Burgerleg

since it does not look like we are going to get the fw updates..

what are my options to return to bb and get credit to put toward a new tv? i bought their extended warranty..

should i wait until they no longer carry this model in store?

How small is "small"?

-Burgerleg

REALLY small, not noticeable unless your face is plastered up against the screen. It just doesn't fit the ENTIRE screen, but damn close to it.

I haven't gotten to moving my PC into the den yet but I will soon.

So your screen is filled completely on all sides?

REALLY small, not noticeable unless your face is plastered up against the screen. It just doesn't fit the ENTIRE screen, but damn close to it.

I haven't gotten to moving my PC into the den yet but I will soon.

So your screen is filled completely on all sides?

I think it is, but if it was really small, I might not have noticed. I can't recheck right now.. recovering from surgery on a herniated disc for the next few weeks and I'm supposed to stay in bed. Maybe I can get my wife to check.

ok guys, I know this has probably already been posted before but I'm gonna go ahead and ask.




I'm running my TX42f430S connected to my dell XPS400, I got a Nvidia Geforce7800GTX 256mb card with video out (s Video) connected currently. I got the TV setup as the only display source and it fits the screen well however I was wondering on a 1280x1024 output is there any optimal display settings people would recommend? My screen is alittle hazey and kinda blue-ish tint to it. Let me know if there is a link or information on this huge thread that could help me.

Quick question, should I keep De interlacing off or on?

Quick question, should I keep De interlacing off or on?

Short answer: Whatever looks better.

I found no difference at all switching that setting when running in 1080p modes (which makes perfect sense, and I'm glad they didn't try to deinterlace already-deinterlaced input, but the menu item probably would be better left greyed-out when using progressive input). When using an xbox (not 360) via component input at 1080i, I liked the deinterlaced look better, at least on the 2 or 3 menus that I viewed. With ATSC hdtv shows that were broadcast in 1080i, I liked it left as interlaced, but that's my own personal preference.

I won't go into "what interlacing is" or "what deinterlacing does on the back end" in this forum, but basically, I think deinterlacing is a dumb gimmick.. like that cutesy sepia tone feature on your camcorder or digital camera, only slightly more useful. If I have my info straight, all deinterlacing does is throw out the odd or even rows of an interlaced video, and then fills them back in with averages of the above+below pixels/rows.. or something similar to that.. so by deinterlacing, you probably sacrifice clarity and quality for *maybe* less flickery video (which could be construed as better quality) and a maybe-better-looking (but not as historically accurate) picture. The deinterlaced video might also appear less fluid / more choppy. Deinterlacing is great for displays that are stuck in progressive scan mode, though, because otherwise they display the video as progressive when it's interlaced, and that makes it look all jittery and crappy (since the fields are displayed a bit out of sequence).

If it looks better to you, then definitely use it, because you paid for it anyway, right?

-Burgerleg

OK, first time poster here. I have owned the TX-42F430S since Nov. 11, and have been very satisfied with it so far. This is my first foray into HDTV and I was looking for a TV for the living room, not a computer monitor. I do have a PVR computer hooked up to it, and needless to say it looks a lot better using the HDMI than my old JVC 27" S-video connection did. I have the PVR on HDMI 1, a Cox Motorola HD digital cable box on HDMI 2, and a Philips upconverting DVD player on HDMI 3. Santa is supposed to be bringing an XBOX Halo Edition, which will go on HDMI 4. When I bought the thing I never dreamed I would be using all 4 HDMI inputs. On one of the component inputs is the Wii, and the composite input has the VCR. The TX-42F430S has done everything I expected of it with no flickering, no lockups, no bad pixels, etc. I took some pictures yesterday using the test pattern provided here, and I'll post those soon. There was some smearing of blue text on the black background, but it wasn't bad. I thought about the backlight, which I run at 50%. I went to the "enhanced" settings which have the backlight at 100%, and the "saturation" too high and then the blue text was smeared as shown here. I would suggest to everyone here to turn that backlight down to 40-50% and then adjust the saturation, brightness, and contrast to suit your tastes. This seems to produce a much better picture for me.

James

OK, first time poster here. I have owned the TX-42F430S since Nov. 11, and have been very satisfied with it so far. This is my first foray into HDTV and I was looking for a TV for the living room, not a computer monitor. I do have a PVR computer hooked up to it, and needless to say it looks a lot better using the HDMI than my old JVC 27" S-video connection did. I have the PVR on HDMI 1, a Cox Motorola HD digital cable box on HDMI 2, and a Philips upconverting DVD player on HDMI 3. Santa is supposed to be bringing an XBOX Halo Edition, which will go on HDMI 4. When I bought the thing I never dreamed I would be using all 4 HDMI inputs. On one of the component inputs is the Wii, and the composite input has the VCR. The TX-42F430S has done everything I expected of it with no flickering, no lockups, no bad pixels, etc. I took some pictures yesterday using the test pattern provided here, and I'll post those soon. There was some smearing of blue text on the black background, but it wasn't bad. I thought about the backlight, which I run at 50%. I went to the "enhanced" settings which have the backlight at 100%, and the "saturation" too high and then the blue text was smeared as shown here. I would suggest to everyone here to turn that backlight down to 40-50% and then adjust the saturation, brightness, and contrast to suit your tastes. This seems to produce a much better picture for me.

James

I bought my TV on the same day! I also am extremely satisfied with it.