Official Westinghouse TX Series ( TX-42F430S, TX-47F430S ) Owner's Thread [Text View] - Page 2

nibbs159

05-30-07, 10:51 PM

Another question.. does the Fill setting work the same way for all inputs? So composite/component all overscan the same amount?

Is there a simple way to post pictures? I found my digicam and I snapped a picture of the wii menu as a comparison. It looks like it's cropping a decent amount, but nothing outrageous imo... We used to have a Sony 51" crt projection hdtv, and that tv cropped ALOT of the image. This is noticeable but certainly bareable in comparison. :)

Actually Fill mode seems to work differently depending on the signal's resolution. It will stretch a 480p signal all the way to the left and right edges of the screen but will only zoom (not stretch) a 1080i signal a little bit. I'm pretty sure it's only meant for 16:9 480p signals such as a 480p DVD player or Wii or Xbox set to 16:9. You won't need to use fill for anything on cable.

The two Wii menu shots I posted are actually Standard Vs Fill mode. Compare the button distance at the top and bottom of the screen. The first one is in standard, the second one is in fill and you'll notice the buttons are closer to the screen edge. Again, frustrating but it could be worse.

I'm not sure if there is an easy way to post images. I ended up hosting these from my roadrunner webspace. Kind of a pain...

ElectronicVision

05-30-07, 11:04 PM

I expect any TV sold today to be positioned for an HD future. That doesn't differentiate anything.

But I strongly disagree that manufacturers shouldn't really care about SD quality. 'Short order' is almost two years away before HD is the broadcast standard. In the meantime it's a mix of SD and HD with SD being by far the current standard. I seem to get about ten out of maybe 100 channels in HD. So there's nothing to wonder about why anyone would consider SD performance important for the next two years, unless you really don't watch much television anyway.

To put it bluntly, I can't believe that anyone thinks that the broadcast standard for the next two years is unimportant for a panel sold today.

cozmogeek

05-30-07, 11:19 PM

Does anyone with this set have an HD-DVD player?

I just picked up the HD-A20 and it will not show any video output via HDMI after I updated the firmware on it. Since I picked up this tv an dthe dvd player close to the same time I have no idea which component may be to blame. I think it is hte dvd though since my old upscaling dvd player was conected to the same hdmi input & cable running 720p with no problems at all.

cozmogeek

05-30-07, 11:21 PM

Xcalibur_255

05-31-07, 12:02 AM

Xcalibur_255

05-31-07, 12:06 AM

Those shots from the Wii don't look bad. How does it handle fast motion in gameplay? If there is any unusually severe motion blur it will be most prominent with a 480i/p signal.

Gary McCoy

05-31-07, 01:19 AM

I reject the idea that 4:3 SD performance will be unimportant after analog broadcasting ceases in a couple of years. I think it will matter forever.

Digital broadcasting does not mandate 16:9 and HD. Most staions seem to be broadcasting a combination of a single widescreen program in HD and multiple subchannels in 480p SD. One digital broadcast (a religious channel) is five SD broadcasts in 4:3. This will not be changing in two years.

Many folks have cable boxes and DSS receivers that they will not be throwing away in two years, nor will 4:3 SD programming be going away from non-broadcast sources like cable and DSS. The approaching date is only for OTA broadcasts and the only thing that is going away is analog modulation of TV signals. One thing that will never change is the thousands of classic films and TV programs in 4:3.

By the way, the best SD TV on an HD display by far is from a program called Dscaler running on a HTPC. None of the TV scalers including Faroudja DCDi even come close. Using Dscaler you can get great SDTV on either the LVM-47w1 or the TX-47F430S.

Gary

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 05:08 AM

They all carry digital audio which is part of the purpose of HDMI. HDMI 1 is the only one that has redundant analog input, mostly for people who are converting from DVI sources.

LVM-47w1 INPUT PANELS.
This image displays each side of the input panels on the LVM-47w1 "SPINE DESIGN" FOR INPUTS
Just below the HDMI port (on the left), the analog audio inputs are visable.

http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/images/articles/WestinghouseConnectorPanels.gif
LINK TO IMAGE & REVIEW:
http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Westinghouse_LVM-47w1_Review.htm

LVM-47w1 SPECS:

Display Specifications Viewable Screen Size 47" Diagonal
16:9 Aspect ratio
Native/Optimum Resolution 1920 x 1080
16.7 Million colors
Compatible Modes
PC XGA
Contrast Ratio 1000:1
Brightness 600 cd/m2 <------------------- (COMPARE THIS TO TX-47F430s)
Lamp Life 60,000 Hrs <-------------------- (COMPARE THIS TO TX-47F430s)
Viewing Angle 180° Horizontal 180° Vertical
Response Time 6.5 ms <------------------ (COMPARE THIS TO TX-47F430s)
Audio 2-10 watt speakers
10 watt Subwoofer
Video Processing Progressive Scan, Aspect Ratio Conversion, CCS (Cross Color Suppressor), 3D Noise Reduction, PIP, Inverse 3:2 pulldown, Freezing Picture, 3D Video Processing, 3D Comb Filter
Connectors
1 Video In
1 S-Video In
1 VGA/D-Sub/
RGB + Audio mini jack
2 YPbPr Component Video
1 HDMI + L/R
5 Audio In (mini)
1 Audio Out (Dual RCA)

Fanless Design
Cabinet Color Silver
Installation Options 75 x 75 mm VESA, 100 x 100 mm VESA

LINK TO SPECS:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?prod=LVM-47w1

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

TX-47F430s (INPUT PANELS)
This image displays each side of the input panels on the TX-47F430s "SPINE DESIGN" FOR INPUTS
On the TX-47F430S, just above the HDMI port, the analog audio inputs are visable.

http://pimages.solidsignal.com/TX-47F430S_det_zoomC.gif

http://pimages.solidsignal.com/TX-47F430S_det_zoomA.gif

TX-47F430s SPECS:

Picture Quality

Screen Size 47"
Native Resolution 1920 X 1080
Aspect Ratio 16:9
Brightness (cd/m²) (typical) 500 <---------------------------------- (COMPARE THIS TO LVM-47w1)
Contrast Ratio (min) 1000:1
Dynamic Contrast Ratio 5000:1
Display Colors 16.7 Million True Colors
Viewing Angle
Horizontal 176°
Vertical 176°
Response Time (gray to gray) 8 ms <----------------------------- (COMPARE THIS TO LVM-47w1)
Active Display Area (h x v) 40.9.6" x 23.0"
47.0" Diagonal
Lamp Life (min) 50,000 Hours <----------------------------------- (COMPARE THIS TO LVM-47w1)
Compatible Modes

TV 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i
HDMI/YPbPr 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
PC SVGA, XGA, WXGA
Optimum Resolution 1920 x 1080
HDTV Integrated ATSC/NTSC/ ClearQAM Tuner

Video Features

Preset Video Modes Enhanced/Movie/Game/Sports
Screen Fit Modes Standard/Fill
Progressive Scan
3D Noise Reduction
Inverse 3:2 Pull Down
De-Interlacing
3D Adaptive Comb Filter
2D OSD Graphics Engine
Selectable Color Temperature 3 User Adjustables
Advanced Calibration Menu

Audio

Speaker Qty 2
Subwoofer 10 W
Watts 10
User Adjustable 5 Band Equalizer
Location: Down Firing

Convenience Features

Autosource™
SpineDesign™ Cable Management
DayBright™ - High Contrast LCD for both day and night
Input Labeling
Parental Control
Sleep Timer

Connectors

Antenna In (RF) 1
Video/S-Video In 1
YPbPr 2
HDMI +L/R 4
D-Sub (VGA) In 1
PC Audio In (mini) 1
Audio In (Dual RCA) 4
Phone Out 1
SPDIF Out (optical) 1
AC Power In 1

Electrical/Power Consumption

AC Power 90-240V (50/60Hz)
Power Consumption (max) 350W
Power Consumption (Stand-by) <1 W
Fanless Design

Mechanical

Wall Mount VESA 75 & 100 mm
Anti-Tip Over/Theft Deterrent Bracket
Weight with stand 71.6 lb
Dimensions with stand (WxHxD) 48.2" x 31.5" x 10.5"
Weight without stand 46.6 lb
Dimensions without stand (WxHxD) 48.2" x 29.5" x 5.5"
Carton Weight 83.6 lb
Cabinet Color Black/Dark Silver

LINK TO TX-47F430s SPECS:
http://www.solidsignal.com/prod_display.asp?PROD=TX-47F430S&xzoom=Large-3#MORE

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The availability of the HDMI port, with the option to utilize analog(Dual RCA) input, is a nice feature added to both the LVM & the TX series. In the situation you need to use a conversion cable (DVI-HDMI), as I do on my 3rd DVI output laptop(no available HDMI output on my laptops), this provides a solution to a variety of scenarios. This is a very nice feature that has been added to both the LVM & TX line. Good Thinking.

Westinghouse took the LVM-47w1 HDMI(with analog input), as displayed above, for those utilizing the conversion cable (DVI-HDMI) and added this to the TX series as the initial HDMI-1 input(with Dual RCA analog input).

This allows for analog audio input via the HDMI-1 input if your source is driven to th LVM-47w1 via any conversion cable other than a HDMI-HDMI cable(which carries your audio source to the panel).

Basically the TX47 HDMI-1(with analog input) on the TX47 is identical to the LVM47 HDMI(with analog input) input, as you see above. The TX47 has 3 additional HDMI ports, that are standard(without Dual RCA analog) available to you for future expansion.

This was forward thinking by Westinghouse, to allow those without a direct HDMI-HDMI connection( as I have on multiple PC systems) to connect to the TX47 or the LVM47 via DVI-HDMI cable and add the audio, to that channel, via the analog input. It works, and works well for those who need to use a conversion cable with a variety of systems.

~b3nz0n8

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 05:29 AM

I can say that I prefer SD content on the TX over the LVM.... I think picture quality is pretty close but I think the TX has much better contrast. SD does not look great on either set and I wouldn't say either set has much of an upper hand in that area.

I agree. The TX performs a much better job when processing SD content and the scaling of SD content.

The contrast on the TX is better than the LVM-47w1, but the color depth of the LVM-47w1 in red/blue is deeper(deep crimsons/blues..but there is a green crush that is known with the LVM-47w1....(see Xcalibur_255 posts)).

As a PC MONITOR..the LVM-47w1 shines.

As a TV (PC monitor secondary), the TX series shines, especially with all the added features and user calibration options.

Also, over the built-in tuner..I was able to receive programs that are not in my subscription..which I thought very odd, but nice. I did not put it to use, but I did notice that they were there....I was stuck on the HD channels...my jaw on the floor.

~b3nz0n8

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 05:47 AM

After reading everything in this thread, I still don't see any big difference in this vs. the LVM series. I'm a big xbox360 gamer and don't use many HDMI devices. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

In my side by side comparison, I have concluded the following:
(These are just my thoughts and opinions. If you wish additional pictures, click the links at the bottom of this post).

TX-47F430s:
~The TX-47F430s is an excellent PRIMARY HD TV with the optional use as a PC MONITOR.

~Excellent user calibration & controls

~Added features/connections

LVM-47w1:

The LVM-47w1 is an excellent PRIMARY PC MONITOR with an excellent Secondary, or as many use them, a PRIMARY HD TV , as well.

The LVM does not have a built-in tuner..but where it lacks in the "added features & controls", it also adds better color depth in the red(deep crimson)/blue, although with a bit of green crush.

The LVM also offers the following, of which, currently the TX line does not(and may not):

"Though many extra features are stripped away on the LVM-47w1, the multiple-image-aholics will be pleased to know that PIP, POP, and PBP are included, allowing picture-in-picture displays from many, but not all, combinations of inputs.
For example, you can create a PIP with the HDMI and DV1 inputs, but not with the HDMI and DV2 inputs."

LINK TO ARTICLE(1/2 WAY DOWN):
http://www.hdtvsolutions.com/Westinghouse_LVM-47w1_Review.htm

~b3nz0n8

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 06:06 AM

By the way, the best SD TV on an HD display by far is from a program called Dscaler running on a HTPC. None of the TV scalers including Faroudja DCDi even come close. Using Dscaler you can get great SDTV on either the LVM-47w1 or the TX-47F430S.

Gary

I'll look into this, and thanks for the heads up.

~b3nzon8

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 06:24 AM

I'm not sure if there is an easy way to post images. I ended up hosting these from my roadrunner webspace. Kind of a pain...

Hey nibbs159,

Hosting images (free & easy):

1) www.flickr.com

2) Sign up & confirm via your email

3) Download the free image upload program

4) Install & set up program (make images "public" and usually select "archive" quality, or best quality)

5) Drag and drop pictures from the image location

6) After images are uploaded, the option to "view images" is available

7) Click this link (view images) and it will open your flickr account to view your images.

8) Click "Your Photos", you can adjust how these are viewed(look for the "edit page view" on the right)

9) Above each photo, you will see "view all sizes"

10) click "view all sizes" and then click "largest" image

11) right click, select properties, highlight the Address(url) (where your image is stored): http://...etc

11A) By the way, this can be done with just about any image, via the right click/properties/Address

12) After this entire image link is highlighted, right click(while hovering your mouse over the highlighted link) and "Copy" this link(don't copy anything else until you paste this link somewhere, or it will be overwritten by the next "copy" command)

13) Return to the post where you wish to reply or post something new

14) Click the button under "size", looks like a mountain with a moon over it(it's the insert image button..but you know this already)

15) Paste the image location you copied in Step 12, click "ok"

16) Preview your post, to ensure your image is linked...and proceed

17) **NOTE** If you delete any of your LINKED images in your Flickr account..they will be deleted in your posts. Also, if you adjust your image, it will adjust in all of your posts that the image is posted in.

18) If you run out of space for your images..create a new account. I use b3nz0n8, b3nz0n81, b3nz0n82...etc, to keep track of the accounts easily.

19) You can also apply comments to your pictures in flickr, as I have on the last image set on my sig. below.

19) Questions? I am happy to help, PM if you need to.

Flickr accounts are free and easy to use....Images can be "Public" or "Private" or "Shared" based on your preference.

Hope this helps,

~b3nz0n8

Noel

05-31-07, 06:50 AM

Cozmogeek, make sure you're hddvd player is outputting hdmi, cycle thru the input....after updating, the player goes back to outputting thru component....hope that helps...

nibbs159

05-31-07, 09:32 AM

Thanks for that nibbs. Are you familiar with your camera? Does it represent red well and it does well with the auto white-balance? The camera can really affect the image colors so it's hard to judge, but do you think the images are close to what your eyes were seeing? If so then I'm a bit concerned. The greens are bluish-green and red seems shallow. The LVM series suffered from the same issues though. I see none of the tilt towards magenta in the reds that benzonate's photos showed, so perhaps his video card is doing something. If anything the red could use a slight push towards magenta/blue because the original color was deeper. In your first shots the blue push from your choice of color temp actually brings the red closer to the original, but that's a bad thing IMO. The overall balance does look good on the warm temp setting. No color stands out to me which means if there is a decoder error it's a minor one. That was with the backlight set to 30? These tvs are stupidly bright. Unless you're in a room with open window shades I encourage every owner to park that backlight control right at 0 where it belongs. You'll be rewarded with better blacks in the process. :)

The camera is a Canon Powershot S230. I would say it has pretty accurate reds but I don't really have anything to compare it to. The white balance seemed like it was having trouble taking pictures of the TV. Perhaps I'll try again with daylight. I used a 12" G4 Powerbook with a NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 video card. No problems with DVI > HDMI cable. I've been sticking with the neutral color temp because I thought the whites looked whiter but I'll have to give warm a shot for a bit. Though the backlight was set to 30, I think the photos look a bit brighter than the actual viewing experience. Compared to the LVM-42w2, the TX is much brighter when the backlight is at 100 and darker when the backlight is at 0. Also, the TX backlight changes in increments of 10 while the LVM changed in increments of 1. I do appreciate the brightness during certain times of the day. We have a lot of windows in our living room and its much easier to watch the TX when the room is very lit.

nibbs159

05-31-07, 09:35 AM

Those shots from the Wii don't look bad. How does it handle fast motion in gameplay? If there is any unusually severe motion blur it will be most prominent with a 480i/p signal.

I haven't noticed any motion blur. I played Zelda on the Wii for a couple hours at 480p and it seemed to handle fast motion very well. I've also changed the cable box to output SD at 480p. I haven't had the set long enough / watched enough tv to be certain but, I think the TX does a better job of scaling 480p than the cable box. I found the opposite with the LVM-42w2.

[variable]

05-31-07, 10:29 AM

... I'm guessing that everyone is thumbs up with this TV, right?
I've tried to browse through the pages, and I'm stunned by the technical research going on, and EXTREMELY thankful for it, but... have any of you watched a movie on it? or simply turned on the TV and relaxed?

This TV looks like it will be my first HDTV purchase, and everything I read in this thread says thats a good idea.

I will be connecting it to Comcast HD Cable, and I have an older Sony 5.1 surround sound receiver that does a great job to my non-audiophile ears. I guess I'll have to get an Upscalling DVD player, but I plan on getting an XBOX360 soon though, and will use that as the HD player when the expansion drive comes out. (I'm waiting on the HD consoles until I have an HD TV).

So, everyone likes this TV?
It does the job?

Any final thoughts directed to a tech-savvy guy who feels dumb reading this thread???

Again, amazing work on the technical discussion, thank you.

huggybear

05-31-07, 10:30 AM

hese tvs are stupidly bright. Unless you're in a room with open window shades I encourage every owner to park that backlight control right at 0 where it belongs. You'll be rewarded with better blacks in the process. :)

Xcalibur_255 - Thanks for the backlight tip... after reading your post I checked the default settings and the backlight is almost set to the max (90%).

I turned it off completely and not only do the blacks look great, the overall picture improved quite a bit (flaws are much less noticeable).

However, turning the backlight to 0 seems to take a way a lot of the "punch" from the picture. I briefly tried compensating by increasing the brightness, but I find that setting the brightness to anything over 50 causes the picture to look washed out (blacks turn grey).

So right now I have the backlight at 30.

TX owners - what do you have your backlight setting at?

huggybear

05-31-07, 10:34 AM

']... I'm guessing that everyone is thumbs up with this TV, right?
I've tried to browse through the pages, and I'm stunned by the technical research going on, and EXTREMELY thankful for it, but... have any of you watched a movie on it? or simply turned on the TV and relaxed?

This TV looks like it will be my first HDTV purchase, and everything I read in this thread says thats a good idea.

I will be connecting it to Comcast HD Cable, and I have an older Sony 5.1 surround sound receiver that does a great job to my non-audiophile ears. I guess I'll have to get an Upscalling DVD player, but I plan on getting an XBOX360 soon though, and will use that as the HD player when the expansion drive comes out. (I'm waiting on the HD consoles until I have an HD TV).

So, everyone likes this TV?
It does the job?

Any final thoughts directed to a tech-savvy guy who feels dumb reading this thread???

Again, amazing work on the technical discussion, thank you.

I absolutely love it - it was well worth the wait. I have watched HD via QAM and it is stunning. I am even extremely pleased with crumby old SD analog cable (I posted some pictures a couple of pages back).

This weekend I am going to rent a Bluray movie... Ridge Racer 7 in 1080p on the PS3 is out of this world - it will drop anyone's jaw.

jbradg

05-31-07, 10:41 AM

']... I'm guessing that everyone is thumbs up with this TV, right?
I've tried to browse through the pages, and I'm stunned by the technical research going on, and EXTREMELY thankful for it, but... have any of you watched a movie on it? or simply turned on the TV and relaxed?

This TV looks like it will be my first HDTV purchase, and everything I read in this thread says thats a good idea.

I will be connecting it to Comcast HD Cable, and I have an older Sony 5.1 surround sound receiver that does a great job to my non-audiophile ears. I guess I'll have to get an Upscalling DVD player, but I plan on getting an XBOX360 soon though, and will use that as the HD player when the expansion drive comes out. (I'm waiting on the HD consoles until I have an HD TV).

So, everyone likes this TV?
It does the job?

Any final thoughts directed to a tech-savvy guy who feels dumb reading this thread???

Again, amazing work on the technical discussion, thank you.

I've been happy with the results of my Sony upconvert DVD player (1080i capable, but running it in 720p). It just seemed to look better in 720p to me. I'm running my TWC SA 8300HD DVR cable box in 1080i mode, but I also have it set to 720p and 480p support modes. Without those set, the cable box upconverts the signal and puts gray bars on the sides (I only like 4:3 sources displayed in 4:3). To get black bars, I had to let the cable box pass the other display formats... 720p and 480p.

With some of the tweaking it appears we're now getting into on this thread, hopefully we'll come up with some values that make this TV look outstanding. I think the picture looks good now, but I'm looking forward to adjusting further.

jbradg

05-31-07, 10:43 AM

I absolutely love it - it was well worth the wait. I have watched HD via QAM and it is stunning. I am even extremely pleased with crumby old SD analog cable (I posted some pictures a couple of pages back).

This weekend I am going to rent a Bluray movie... Ridge Racer 7 in 1080p on the PS3 is out of this world - it will drop anyone's jaw.

I know a HD DVD player is in my future now... very near future.

nibbs159

05-31-07, 11:04 AM

However, turning the backlight to 0 seems to take a way a lot of the "punch" from the picture. I briefly tried compensating by increasing the brightness, but I find that setting the brightness to anything over 50 causes the picture to look washed out (blacks turn grey).

So right now I have the backlight at 30.

TX owners - what do you have your backlight setting at?

huggybear, try setting your brightness lower, around 40 and turning the constrast up to about 60. I checked a couple AVIA test screens and found those values to work better than the defaults. I don't have color filters so I wasn't able to do any AVIA color calibration but I just ordered some THX blue filters.

I vary the backlight depending on the amount of ambient light in the room. For nighttime viewing i've had it around 20-30 and for daytime it's usually around 50-60. We watched Pirates of the Carribian on Bluray the night we got the set and it looked great even though it was pretty much on the default settings. We'll be watching the sequel probably tomorrow night with the lower brightness, higher contrast & lower backlight.

If anyone has performed a color calibration I'm sure everyone would appreciate their result values!

nibbs159

05-31-07, 11:09 AM

I've been happy with the results of my Sony upconvert DVD player (1080i capable, but running it in 720p). It just seemed to look better in 720p to me. I'm running my TWC SA 8300HD DVR cable box in 1080i mode, but I also have it set to 720p and 480p support modes. Without those set, the cable box upconverts the signal and puts gray bars on the sides (I only like 4:3 sources displayed in 4:3). To get black bars, I had to let the cable box pass the other display formats... 720p and 480p.

jbradg, check out the SA 8300 settings menu. You can change the pillarboxing color there. I think the choices are light, medium, dark. Let me know what you think about the SA 8300 upscaling standard definiton to 1080i VS letting the TX upscale it.

jbradg

05-31-07, 11:12 AM

jbradg, check out the SA 8300 settings menu. You can change the pillarboxing color there. I think the choices are light, medium, dark. Let me know what you think about the SA 8300 upscaling standard definiton to 1080i VS letting the TX upscale it.

The manual from the SA web site suggests that I can make those changes, but it appears Time Warner has changed the Passport OS and I cannot get to that option, but maybe I'm doing something wrong.

huggybear

05-31-07, 11:29 AM

I know a HD DVD player is in my future now... very near future.

I highly recommend shelling out the $600 and getting a PS3 - not only are you getting a killer game system, you also get a DVD and Blu-Ray player... most importantly, you are actually getting a computer that you can run Linux off of. Sony does not hide this fact - there is even an option in the menu to install another OS.

Once you get Linux on there, the possibilities are endless. There is even talk going on about getting the XBOX external HD-DVD drive running on the Linux PS3!! Once this happens, you will have an all-in-one unit to feed your TX - using only one HDMI connection!

temeone

05-31-07, 11:32 AM

man, can't a brotha get a decently priced LCD with QAM tuner, and no PC or scaling problems? :)

huggybear

05-31-07, 11:33 AM

huggybear, try setting your brightness lower, around 40 and turning the constrast up to about 60. I checked a couple AVIA test screens and found those values to work better than the defaults. I don't have color filters so I wasn't able to do any AVIA color calibration but I just ordered some THX blue filters.

I vary the backlight depending on the amount of ambient light in the room. For nighttime viewing i've had it around 20-30 and for daytime it's usually around 50-60. We watched Pirates of the Carribian on Bluray the night we got the set and it looked great even though it was pretty much on the default settings. We'll be watching the sequel probably tomorrow night with the lower brightness, higher contrast & lower backlight.

If anyone has performed a color calibration I'm sure everyone would appreciate their result values!

Thanks nibbs159 - I will play with those settings tonight.

Where do you order the color filters to perform the complete AVIA calibration?

Has anyone every used that SpyderTV colorimeter? For $200 you get this device that you hang over your set (works with LCD, Plasma, DLP, RPTV) and it is supposed to "scientifically" measure all your settings and automatically adjust them.

Gary McCoy

05-31-07, 11:39 AM

The AVIA color filters come inside the DVD case when you buy the calibration disk. If they are missing the disk can only be used to make those adjustments that do not need them.

They are not available seperately AFAIK, you need to buy the disk again.

Gary

Xcalibur_255

05-31-07, 12:09 PM

The camera is a Canon Powershot S230. I would say it has pretty accurate reds but I don't really have anything to compare it to. The white balance seemed like it was having trouble taking pictures of the TV. Perhaps I'll try again with daylight. I used a 12" G4 Powerbook with a NVIDIA GeForce FX Go5200 video card. No problems with DVI > HDMI cable. I've been sticking with the neutral color temp because I thought the whites looked whiter but I'll have to give warm a shot for a bit. Though the backlight was set to 30, I think the photos look a bit brighter than the actual viewing experience. Compared to the LVM-42w2, the TX is much brighter when the backlight is at 100 and darker when the backlight is at 0. Also, the TX backlight changes in increments of 10 while the LVM changed in increments of 1. I do appreciate the brightness during certain times of the day. We have a lot of windows in our living room and its much easier to watch the TX when the room is very lit.
Another good reason to ignore specs on things like this. According to specification the TX does not achieve the peak brightness that the 42w2 can, but I trust what you say first. The 42w2 was bright enough to make one's eyes bleed and if the TX can get brighter I just don't see the point. Zero backlight on the 42w2 was actually just about right. You definitely want to stick with the warm color temp setting. This comes the closest to D6500 which is reference white. Anything else is a higher color temp which introduces a blue tint to the picture. It corrupts color purity. Few people really notice until they've spent some time with a monitor or display that's truly been calibrated to D6500, even most computer monitors fail at this. Once you can spot D6500 white you'll never want to be without it. It just looks more natural.

Xcalibur_255

05-31-07, 12:15 PM

Xcalibur_255 - Thanks for the backlight tip... after reading your post I checked the default settings and the backlight is almost set to the max (90%).

I turned it off completely and not only do the blacks look great, the overall picture improved quite a bit (flaws are much less noticeable).

However, turning the backlight to 0 seems to take a way a lot of the "punch" from the picture. I briefly tried compensating by increasing the brightness, but I find that setting the brightness to anything over 50 causes the picture to look washed out (blacks turn grey).

So right now I have the backlight at 30.

TX owners - what do you have your backlight setting at?
The best way to "reset" your brain's natural tendency to retain visual information (which is what's causing you to think the picture looks flat at zero backlight) is to set it right before you turn it off for the night then begin watching with the new setting the next day. The contrast will look perfectly fine to you except you'll be missing the eye strain that comes with running the backlight too high. At max backlight this tv is throwing well in excess of 500 candela/m2 which is just way too much. Anything over 300 produces noticable eye strain and forces the eye to work much harder to resolve details and focus. A comfortable level is about 200 which is about what the TX should produce with the backlight set at minimum. This level is still too high for proper light output if one wants to get close to THX specifications for movie viewing purposes, but people are naturally attracted to brighter images. You have to forcefully break yourself of the desire. Technically speaking the panel's contrast performance is actually as good at minimum backlight as it is at max (something that's not true of ALL LCD panels, but it's thankfully true of these ones). It's our persistence of vision that's making us think the lower lighting is dull looking. Try the min setting the way I suggested and stick with it for a while. Then after a week turn it back to max and be blown away by how insanely overbright it seems to you. :)

alucard_x

05-31-07, 01:20 PM

I have a LVM-32w6 but there's a few things I can add..

1. USB Firmware port - I wouldn't base any buying decision on this. The 32w6 has one and we went over this in our thread through communcation with Westinghouse. They don't send you or give Bestbuy (or any inhome tech) the ability to upgrade your firmware. The only way to get it upgraded is if there's something wrong and you have to send it to Westinghouse. Unless Westy's policy has changed, this is the way they do it so its pretty much useless to us.

2. The 32w6 has Standard and Fill mode, no overscan. Standard as explained in here is 1:1 mapping with no overscan on every source input. Fill depends on the resolution that is being sent to the input port. If it's a 4:3 resolution it will stretch it horizontally to fill the screen and use overscan. If it's a 16:9 it just applies overscan on all 4 sides zooming it evenly.

I believe it's by resolution.. based on what i've seen with my cablebox and VGA/pc input. What's interesting though is that my cablebox is supposed to sending everything at 720p but yet the TV knows when i'm on SD channels it does the stretch+overscan.

Also, does anyone have the box dimensions of the 42"

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 01:33 PM

Cozmogeek, make sure you're hddvd player is outputting hdmi, cycle thru the input....after updating, the player goes back to outputting thru component....hope that helps...

I tried everything. THe HDMI ports on the TX tv do not work with the HD-A20. If I let it sit there for 2-5 minutes the picture will suddenly come on, but then dies again as soon as I try to start playing something or it changes resolution again.

Just to check I hooked it up to my projector and the image popped right up the first time with no issues.

Add another bug to the list of issues with this tv I guess..

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 01:36 PM

I know a HD DVD player is in my future now... very near future.

You might want to look at what I posted. At least for me with the Toshiba HD-A20 it does not work with this tv.

Has anybody got an HD-DVD player working on this tv via HDMI?

Mikeoz

05-31-07, 02:08 PM

I highly recommend shelling out the $600 and getting a PS3 - not only are you getting a killer game system, you also get a DVD and Blu-Ray player... most importantly, you are actually getting a computer that you can run Linux off of. Sony does not hide this fact - there is even an option in the menu to install another OS.

Once you get Linux on there, the possibilities are endless. There is even talk going on about getting the XBOX external HD-DVD drive running on the Linux PS3!! Once this happens, you will have an all-in-one unit to feed your TX - using only one HDMI connection!

I've been telling myself to hold off on getting a ps3 but i'm afraid after I setup the tx47 I'm going to be "compelled" to buy one. :p Having an outstanding upconverting dvd player and the possibility of blu-ray is gonna probably push me to buy it. I'm all for blu-ray, I just think it will be a pain at first since I will only have one blu-ray player (ps3), but multiple displays. I'm not a big fan of moving components around but I may not have a choice..

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 02:13 PM

']... I'm guessing that everyone is thumbs up with this TV, right?
I've tried to browse through the pages, and I'm stunned by the technical research going on, and EXTREMELY thankful for it, but... have any of you watched a movie on it? or simply turned on the TV and relaxed?

This TV looks like it will be my first HDTV purchase, and everything I read in this thread says thats a good idea.

I will be connecting it to Comcast HD Cable, and I have an older Sony 5.1 surround sound receiver that does a great job to my non-audiophile ears. I guess I'll have to get an Upscalling DVD player, but I plan on getting an XBOX360 soon though, and will use that as the HD player when the expansion drive comes out. (I'm waiting on the HD consoles until I have an HD TV).

So, everyone likes this TV?
It does the job?

Any final thoughts directed to a tech-savvy guy who feels dumb reading this thread???

Again, amazing work on the technical discussion, thank you.

Hello [variable],

You are on the right track with the Westinghouse TX-47F430s & the TX line.

While other threads are discussing(venting) about their experiences with defects and difficulties based on many other brands of LCD panels, the Westinghouse LVM & TX series threads are discussing how to get the most of these excellent panels.

Your in good company.

~b3nz0n8

Mikeoz

05-31-07, 02:15 PM

1. USB Firmware port - I wouldn't base any buying decision on this. The 32w6 has one and we went over this in our thread through communcation with Westinghouse. They don't send you or give Bestbuy (or any inhome tech) the ability to upgrade your firmware. The only way to get it upgraded is if there's something wrong and you have to send it to Westinghouse. Unless Westy's policy has changed, this is the way they do it so its pretty much useless to us.

This is exactly what I was "afraid" of. The feature can largely be useless for the most part unless Westy is willing to let people update the firmware themselves (which is probably not very likely).

2. The 32w6 has Standard and Fill mode, no overscan. Standard as explained in here is 1:1 mapping with no overscan on every source input. Fill depends on the resolution that is being sent to the input port. If it's a 4:3 resolution it will stretch it horizontally to fill the screen and use overscan. If it's a 16:9 it just applies overscan on all 4 sides zooming it evenly.

I'm not sure what cable provider you have but I have verizon Fios, and I dont believe the box upconverts SD signals. I have the hd-dvr box and it looks like it sends either 480i/p to your tv depending on what setting you set in the menu.

Does anyone know if Fios has any QAM channels (I know this isn't the forum but just curious)? I dont really care since I use a STB anyway, but would be neat to test the qam tuner. I'm guessing no but maybe it does..

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:25 PM

jbradg

05-31-07, 02:28 PM

The westinghouse lady on the phone right now says we probably won't be able to update the firmware ourselves.. they'd have to send someone out to do it.

She's basically saying I should get a different dvd player to fix my hdmi problem (hah).

I told her about the hdmi ports dying, hdmi not working wiht my hd-dvd, and the 480p/i stretch problem.

Well, if that's the case with the firmware, I hope with my BB warranty I can get the Geeks at the Squad to come out and do any firmware upgrades I need for free. :-)

Noel

05-31-07, 02:29 PM

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:30 PM

Well, if that's the case with the firmware, I hope with my BB warranty I can get the Geeks at the Squad to come out and do any firmware upgrades I need for free. :-)

Hehe i asked her if they'd send the geek squad out and she said no. It sounds like they contract out local tv repair companies.

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:31 PM

Cozmogeek, did you unplug the A20 for a couple of minutes after updating? Unplug the hdmi and power to the A20 for a couple of minutes, then retry and see if that works, also, did you reinitialize the player after the update? Do you turn the tv on first and then the A20?

I tried unplugging it but not for very long. I tried all kinds of powering on and off in various orders. I did do the initialize aftward too.

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 02:33 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by alucard_x:
1. USB Firmware port - I wouldn't base any buying decision on this. The 32w6 has one and we went over this in our thread through communcation with Westinghouse. They don't send you or give Bestbuy (or any inhome tech) the ability to upgrade your firmware. The only way to get it upgraded is if there's something wrong and you have to send it to Westinghouse. Unless Westy's policy has changed, this is the way they do it so its pretty much useless to us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeoz:
This is exactly what I was "afraid" of. The feature can largely be useless for the most part unless Westy is willing to let people update the firmware themselves (which is probably not very likely).

Hello Mikeoz,

I believe the method of service that BB and Westinghouse will use to approach issues with the Westinghouse panels, is changing.

With Westinghouse and BB in partnership, Westinghouse has "empowered" BB and the Geek Squad to handle and determine the plan of attack on the issues that arise. This includes repair/replacement/upgrades(firmware), based on the issue.....

This will be tested on both of my LVM47's in the next few weeks.

If the Geek Squad can obtain the VGA dongle, provide the 1.06 Firmware upgrade and do it successfully...they most certainly can handle the TX line USB Firmware upgrade.

I hope this is the case..and will let you know if it is a success.

~b3nz0n8

Noel

05-31-07, 02:34 PM

Cozmogeek, did you check your settings in the menu? They all default back to original after updating, maybe something is wrong there....

Noel

05-31-07, 02:35 PM

Cozmogeek, also try all other hdmi inputs, maybe just that one doesn't work, you never know...

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:35 PM

Cozmogeek, did you check your settings in the menu? They all default back to original after updating, maybe something is wrong there....

Do you have this player working on this tv?
I'm not doing anything wrong, it just doesn't work hehe :D
It works just dandy on my projector.

flabioh

05-31-07, 02:35 PM

Also, does anyone have the box dimensions of the 42"

I don't believe anyone has the 42" yet. At least I haven't seen it mentioned in this thread yet. I had to special order mine through BB and will get it on June 22nd.

Xcalibur_255

05-31-07, 02:39 PM

You might want to look at what I posted. At least for me with the Toshiba HD-A20 it does not work with this tv.

Has anybody got an HD-DVD player working on this tv via HDMI?
It's equally possible that it's the Toshiba's fault too. HDMI handshaking is a bloody mess and doesn't seem to work well on many tvs.

Noel

05-31-07, 02:40 PM

Cozmogeek, no, I don't have the tv yet, but will later this year, hopefully....try changing the output to 1080i or 1080p and see if that makes a difference...

Mikeoz

05-31-07, 02:40 PM

With Westinghouse and BB in partnership, Westinghouse has "empowered" BB and the Geek Squad to handle and determine the plan of attack on the issues that arise. This includes repair/replacement/upgrades(firmware), based on the issue.....

This will be tested on both of my LVM47's in the next few weeks.

If the Geek Squad can obtain the VGA dongle, provide the 1.06 Firmware upgrade and do it successfully...they most certainly can handle the TX line USB Firmware upgrade.

The question for me will be whether firmware upgrades will be free only if you have an extended warranty service (like through BB). I'm not a believer in extended warranties and I don't think I should be required to have an extended warranty for a lousy firmware update.

Are Westy lvm42/47 owners treated the same for those that own extended warranties and those that don't (within 1 yr of purchase)?

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:41 PM

Cozmogeek, no, I don't have the tv yet, but will later this year, hopefully....try changing the output to 1080i or 1080p and see if that makes a difference...

I've tried every resolution setting actually and 2 of the different inputs. If I could downgrade the player's firmware I might be able to get it working again. It was working when I first turned it on but the 1.6 update hosed it.

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:42 PM

The question for me will be whether firmware upgrades will be free only if you have an extended warranty service (like through BB). I'm not a believer in extended warranties and I don't think I should be required to have an extended warranty for a lousy firmware update.

Are Westy lvm42/47 owners treated the same for those that own extended warranties and those that don't (within 1 yr of purchase)?

I can't imagine them being able to do that. The tv is defective hence the need for an update. If it is still under warantee it shouldn't matter.

Noel

05-31-07, 02:44 PM

Try downloading the older firmware, you should be able to go back...problems sometimes happen when updating the firmware...look at the hddvd player thread and see if it's available for download....hdmi is really screwing this up....

jbradg

05-31-07, 02:44 PM

Do you have this player working on this tv?
I'm not doing anything wrong, it just doesn't work hehe :D
It works just dandy on my projector.

Maybe I missed this in one of your posts, but are you at firmware version 1.6 on this player? They also mention making sure all the inputs that are connected to the TV via HDMI are on. Trying a different resolution is a good idea too. I read one other player had problems at a specific resolution with a Sony RPTV.

Noel

05-31-07, 02:45 PM

Also, you might try using component for now....it should look about the same....just a thought...

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 02:56 PM

Maybe I missed this in one of your posts, but are you at firmware version 1.6 on this player? They also mention making sure all the inputs that are connected to the TV via HDMI are on. Trying a different resolution is a good idea too. I read one other player had problems at a specific resolution with a Sony RPTV.

Yes I got a new HD-A20 yesterday and updated the firmware to 1.6 right after I fired it up. The HDMI video was working fine before the update, but as soon as I turned it on after the new firmware was installed it was all messed up.

I want to try downgrading to 1.5 possibly and see if that fixes it but I couldn't find the iso anywhere for that version.

I did try disconnecting all the other hdmi devices.

Westinghouse support says they don't even have this tv there yet. :rolleyes:

jbradg

05-31-07, 03:00 PM

Yes I got a new HD-A20 yesterday and updated the firmware to 1.6 right after I fired it up. The HDMI video was working fine before the update, but as soon as I turned it on after the new firmware was installed it was all messed up.

I want to try downgrading to 1.5 possibly and see if that fixes it but I couldn't find the iso anywhere for that version.

I did try disconnecting all the other hdmi devices.

Westinghouse support says they don't even have this tv there yet. :rolleyes:

Maybe Toshiba support will be of some help. After watching material in HD, I'm thinking I should return my Sony upconvert DVD player and go to HD DVD. It will upconvert and do HD DVD.

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 03:04 PM

Also, you might try using component for now....it should look about the same....just a thought...

That will send up to 1080i for HD-DVDs but regular dvds play at 480p then you run into the stretch mode problem.

Westinghouse support says it is the dvd player's fault. I think it is a combination of the two.

She's blaming my hdmi inputs dying issue on power surges... ugh.

jbradg

05-31-07, 03:14 PM

That will send up to 1080i for HD-DVDs but regular dvds play at 480p then you run into the stretch mode problem.

Westinghouse support says it is the dvd player's fault. I think it is a combination of the two.

She's blaming my hdmi inputs dying issue on power surges... ugh.

I did experience HDMI locking in on a signal issue twice, but I haven't been able to get them to repeat. This is also after I returned the Samsung upconvert DVD and got the Sony. (also note that the Samsung was doing 1080p and this Sony only does a max of 1080i which I have set at 720p) I'm not sure exactly what kind of power surge she is talking about, but I have all my equipment, including the TV, plugged into a UPS, since I got the TV.

Thanks for the heads-up on the regular 480p DVD. I'll stick with what I've got for now and wait for HD DVD prices to drop some more.

Noel

05-31-07, 03:15 PM

Noel

05-31-07, 03:18 PM

Jbradg, the hddvd player will upconvert dvd's if it's connected thru hdmi...once you see an hddvd movie, you'll never go back....The Matrix is awesome!!!

jbradg

05-31-07, 03:23 PM

Jbradg, the hddvd player will upconvert dvd's if it's connected thru hdmi...once you see an hddvd movie, you'll never go back....The Matrix is awesome!!!

Hmmm... and it's interesting, it's the original Matrix movie I've been testing with my DVD upconvert player. I might have to stop by Best Buy on my way home. They have the Toshiba in stock.

Noel

05-31-07, 03:29 PM

The Matrix in Hddvd will blow your socks off....watched the trilogy this weekend on Hddvd...it was awesome....

Bob Dobbs

05-31-07, 03:43 PM

Anyone hooked up a Sony HC3 or HC5 via HDMI and taken a look? I can't wait to see all my home movies on a big screen.

cozmogeek

05-31-07, 04:12 PM

Cozmogeek, did you buy the hddvd player locally? if so, you can go exchange it for another one, and maybe that one will work for you...but, then again, it might be both of them that is causing the problem....

Unfortunately no I ordered it from Amazon.
The Toshiba tech took down the tv model # and signed me up to get the firmware update cds. He said the player won't let you downgrade though.

Basically I'm SOL until more of you buy this tv and hd-dvd players and call to complain when it doesn't work :p

The 2nd Westinghouse lady I talked to said I was the first person she's talked to that called about that tv.

Xcalibur_255

05-31-07, 05:04 PM

They say that whether you actually are or not. ;)

Mikeoz

05-31-07, 08:02 PM

Well, I swung by best buy after work and picked the westy up! :D

I was able to tinker w/ it and try different inputs and overall it looks like a great set so far after my initial observations.

#1- 480i/p widescreen signal using the Fill mode look fine. Honestly it's probably not even noticeable unless you're coming from another set that has 0% overscan. Yes I notice it, but it doesn't bother me. It's one of those things that now that I know about it I'd prefer there to not be overscan, but it doesn't bother me.

#2- SD content looks decent/good for a 1080p set. I'm coming from a 32" 720p lcd, so of course it looks worse, but honestly better than I expected. The Sony 46" 720p lcd we have s2010 looks a little better, but not alot. That's expected though since there's less scaling involved for the 720p set.

#3- HD content looks stunning. I am impressed, and can try and get some screen shots up for some people tomorrow. I have the afternoon off so I'll be able to tinker w/ the westy for a while.

I popped in Collateral (one of my fav movies) in my sony non-upconverting dvd player (480p) and it looked pretty good. I thought it was going to look worse so the scaler must be pretty good. The contrast is improved over the 32" winbook :), and it looks comparable to the sony. I think this movie is a good benchmark for dark scenes since it's mostly shot at night.

I have the tv sitting on top of my audio rack, and the tv doesn't seem too heavy. The rack doesn't seem to have any issue w/ the weight of the tv *knock on wood*. I did test out the stand by putting 120+ lbs of free weights on it before. I have to run out for the evening but I'll have more time late tonight and tomorrow to tinker with it. First impression though is the set is a great set. I didn't notice any banding which is a plus. I'm incredibly tempted now to run out tomorrow and pick up a ps3. :p

For anyone debating on the tx47, it looks like a great set for the $!

EDIT: Forgot to note that I will try and hook up my computer w/ a dvi->hdmi cable probably tomorrow. Only pita part is that the cable is only 6 feet, and my pc is 6+ feet away.. I guess I'll have to order a longer cable from monoprice along with some longer component cables (I gave away some longer cables to some family members and now I need them :o )

irshliquor

05-31-07, 08:02 PM

OK, Best Buy called me and left a message on my answering machine. Looks like they are going to be replacing my LVM-42w2. Since they don't have that model anymore, I'm considering paying the $100-200 difference and picking up the TX-47F430S.

The $100,000 question that I haven't seen answered yet...

Does the TX series respond better to IR commands than the LVM series? It seems like every time I try to turn on my LVM-42w2 I have to send the command twice.

Also, does the TX series do 1:1 in Standard mode like the LVM?

BENZONATE

05-31-07, 09:15 PM

I tried everything. THe HDMI ports on the TX tv do not work with the HD-A20. If I let it sit there for 2-5 minutes the picture will suddenly come on, but then dies again as soon as I try to start playing something or it changes resolution again.

Just to check I hooked it up to my projector and the image popped right up the first time with no issues.

Add another bug to the list of issues with this tv I guess..

Hello cozmogeek,

That is the exact problem I was experiencing via my Cox Cable Explorer HD box via DVI-HDMI, on the TX47 when I was comparing the two TX47 & LVM47...

AND....

My laptop video card (NVIDIA GO 7800 GTX via 18 different drivers tested).

The image appears, blinks and is gone....the Cox box then reports an HDMI error("HDCP is not supported by your TV") which is incorrect.

This is apparently another HDMI "handshake" issue...which is why I went back to the LVM-47w1 (DVI inputs + 1 HDMI input).

~b3nz0n8

2panther

05-31-07, 09:56 PM

I might have just experienced my first issue with this set. I was playing a game over xbox live of NHL 2K7 and during parts of the game it would flicker on and off the a black screen and then back to the game and the on screen display would show my input, in this case HDMI-1 1080p

Thoughts?

Only other game played on this new set so far was HALO 2 and there was no issues.

Ace_of_Sevens

05-31-07, 11:36 PM

flabioh

06-01-07, 07:32 AM

You could try getting a signal amplifier and see if you can pick up any more channels.

nibbs159

06-01-07, 08:29 AM

Does the TX series respond better to IR commands than the LVM series? It seems like every time I try to turn on my LVM-42w2 I have to send the command twice.

Also, does the TX series do 1:1 in Standard mode like the LVM?

Yes, the TX IR sensor works MUCH better than the LVM-42w2's sensor. That was one of the first things I noticed but I completely forgot to report it here. Glad you asked!

Standard mode appears to be 1:1. I haven't used any test patterns to confirm, anyone know for sure?

huggybear

06-01-07, 10:31 AM

I figured out the QAM issue, sort of. I scanned again and was able to get extremely poor reception on the biography channel. I removed my VCR from the chain and got some music channels as well. I'm still not getting the roughly seven other channels I can get with my Sanyo. I think the tuner is just far weaker at resolving signals than my set that cost half as much three years ago. So far, Westinghouse hasn't responded to my email.

QAM requires a very strong signal... I have an HDHomeRun box (HD network streamer with both OTA and QAM inputs)... this device shows you the QAM signal strength... on the forums the mods tell you that your strength should be in the 90s... people will post that they can't receive any channels even when their QAM strength is in the 80s!

Use RG6 cable, try to reduce the number of splits and/or pick up an amp as someone else suggested. Sounds like the tuner in your Sanyo just does a better job of picking up weaker signals...

huggybear

06-01-07, 10:43 AM

I don't have my AVIA disc with me so I popped in the THX Optimizer last night. I don't have any of the filter glasses so the only tests I could perform were the brightness, contrast, sharpness, and hue tests...

I see why the set ships with the majority of the defaults right at 50 - these are pretty good! The contrast test requires you to adjust the contrast so you can still make out 4 distinct white boxes... for me, this occurs right at 50! I tried lowering my brightness to 40 and contrast to 60 as someone suggested, but this resulted in the 3rd and 4th box becoming blurred.

As for brightness, you are supposed to adjust it so you can read "THX" but not see the dropshadow, and you should barely be able to make out the 7th black box on a series of 10. Again, I've got my brightness right at 50... if I lower it to 40, the 7th box disappears entirely.

The backlight didn't seem to affect these tests - having it too high does however washout the surrounding blacks... I have mine at 30 - still haven't "trained" my eyes so I can turn it off completely.

The hue test requires you to adjust the hue so magenta seems magenta and cyan seems cyan... again, I've got mine close to 50 - 48 to be exact.

As for sharpness, I have to say this adjustment doesn't appear to do anything! The test shows black and white lines close together - I honestly don't see any difference from 0 to 100. I remember doing this test on a RPTV and you can clearly see when the sharpness becomes too high. I assume it has less of an effect on LCDs. I will try tweaking this again during normal viewing.

Having the backlight turned down from the default (90 or even 100 on some modes) makes a HUGE difference, especially with SD.... I watch CNN Headline News every morning in SD analog cable and from my viewing distance you honestly can't tell that it isn't digital - it's as good as SD is gonna get!

Troyd

06-01-07, 11:20 AM

man, can't a brotha get a decently priced LCD with QAM tuner, and no PC or scaling problems? :)

I think the so called 'PC problems' was limited to one person. I can tell you I have this TX47 set and It has NO problems handshaking with any OS/PC I throw at it. I've used my laptop via the VGA port running widows and my HTPC via DVI to HDMI running Gentoo Linux/Mythtv. It just works!

-Troy

Mikeoz

06-01-07, 11:25 AM

I don't have my AVIA disc with me so I popped in the THX Optimizer last night. I don't have any of the filter glasses so the only tests I could perform were the brightness, contrast, sharpness, and hue tests...

I did the same thing with the THX optimizer last night via one of the component inputs and it improved the black levels and contrast dramatically. I set the Brightness to 60 and contrast to 64. What I've noticed (which is how it should be) is that adjusting the backlight makes no difference to the contrast of the picture, it simply just brightens it up. I was watching part of a LOTR movie last night and Collateral and the dark details come out now w/ these new settings. I had no ambient light in the room and the backlight set to 0. The backlight setting is completely dependant on preference IMO, and completely dependant on the amount of ambient light you have in the room. Honestly I am impressed with how good SD DVD's look, especially from a non-upconverting dvd player.

Keep in mind my test was not w/ an HDMI input but component. I'm sure HDMI is completely different. Regarding the color.. I set the color to Warm, and everything else is at default. The color looks pretty good to me, and I'm definetly happy overall. If anyone has the glasses to adjust the color I'd be interested to see what settings you come up w/ for the color, but so far I'm very happy.

alucard_x

06-01-07, 11:38 AM

Xcalibur_255

06-01-07, 12:07 PM

As for sharpness, I have to say this adjustment doesn't appear to do anything! The test shows black and white lines close together - I honestly don't see any difference from 0 to 100. I remember doing this test on a RPTV and you can clearly see when the sharpness becomes too high. I assume it has less of an effect on LCDs. I will try tweaking this again during normal viewing.
Sharpness is of course a personal preference, but the short answer is that 0 is the correct setting for this control too, unless Westinghouse has designated 50 as the "0" point of the control. Some are setup this way and introduce softness to the image when lowered to zero, but you should be able to notice this right away. Easiest way to see the effects of sharpness is to find a static image with small text or fine diagonal lines. As you turn the sharpness control up you'll see these lines actually appear to thicken slightly and take on an increasingly jagged appearance almost as if they're being "blown out" so to speak. This is called notch filtering. Basically what a sharpness control does is DELETE PICTURE DETAILS anywhere there is a sharp luminance transition (such as a black line) in order to "isolate" that luminance peak (said black line) and make it stand out more prominently against the rest of the image. Sharpness of any kind is destructive to picture detail and should always be used as a last resort. For HD content viewing there is never any reason to have the control set above zero. As for SD it is personal preference, but I've found over the years that taking the softness out of SD with sharpening is not worth it due to the way it amplifies the visibility of picture noise and artifacts.

Westinghouse didn't include noise reduction so I wish they'd gone one further and dropped this too. Sharpness is something that's needed to go away from tvs for years now.

Xcalibur_255

06-01-07, 12:09 PM

haha.. you better get used to it. Westinghouse's typical answer for anything wrong with their TV's is that it's a power surge or power strip issue. they'll tell you to use a power strip with only the tv on it, hook it directly into the wall, or use a different power outlet all together.
Just be thankful the lock-up issue didn't migrate over to this series too. ;)

crimsona

06-01-07, 01:21 PM

TX-42 available at Best buy Canada, for MSRP of $1700 CAD. No sign of the TX-47 yet...

alucard_x

06-01-07, 01:23 PM

Just be thankful the lock-up issue didn't migrate over to this series too. ;)

true enough.. those damn power gremlins locking up our teevee's

Type-E

06-01-07, 02:07 PM

TX-42 available at Best buy Canada, for MSRP of $1700 CAD. No sign of the TX-47 yet...

With exchange rate lowered than 1:1.1, I feel sorry for the Canadians. Plus 15% sales tax in Toronto. Ouch.

flabioh

06-01-07, 03:30 PM

With exchange rate lowered than 1:1.1, I feel sorry for the Canadians. Plus 15% sales tax in Toronto. Ouch.

Wow... that is brutal.

jbr439

06-01-07, 03:32 PM

TX-42 available at Best buy Canada, for MSRP of $1700 CAD. No sign of the TX-47 yet...

Went to the Vancouver store yesterday. Did not have any TX models. The salesperson I talked to didn't seem to think they would be carrying the TX-42 (what I was interested in) - however, he also seemed unsure of what he was saying. Checked availability online on a number of BC stores and none had it.

So, has anybody in Canada seen the TX-42 in a BB yet? Or is it truly only available online?

Jim

Bob Dobbs

06-01-07, 03:43 PM

Are the HDMI ports the new 1.3 spec?

flabioh

06-01-07, 04:33 PM

Went to the Vancouver store yesterday. Did not have any TX models. The salesperson I talked to didn't seem to think they would be carrying the TX-42 (what I was interested in) - however, he also seemed unsure of what he was saying. Checked availability online on a number of BC stores and none had it.

So, has anybody in Canada seen the TX-42 in a BB yet? Or is it truly only available online?

Jim

This seems to be common. For some reason Best Buy is not planning on carrying it at all in a lot of areas (like mine). However, you can still have them special order it and get it to the store to pick up. I have to wait another few weeks for it to get to my store, but come June 22nd I'm in for some 42" TX goodness (until I go on vacation June 23rd). :)

So, if you really want the 42" just pressure a sales person to order it and I'm sure they will.

Gary McCoy

06-01-07, 05:05 PM

If Best Buy were to place the Westinghouse side-by-side with the other HDTVs the same screen size, they would definately sell more product than they can get, at lower prices than they want to sell HDTV's at.

Contrary-wise, If nobody sees the Westinghouse, they will sell more of the higher priced, higher margin HDTVs. All LCDs have gotten cheaper and finally this 40" and larger market segment is alive and well. But the embarassing fact is that Westinghouse started out cheaper than the competition, and still is.

As for those of you that paid $100 over the suggested $1799 list price to be first, shame on you, and shame on Best Buy.

Gary

flabioh

06-01-07, 05:17 PM

I'm just glad I paid 150 less than list price. :)

Xcalibur_255

06-01-07, 05:23 PM

Are the HDMI ports the new 1.3 spec?
No. There is no need for 1.3 spec with these tvs.

Mikeoz

06-01-07, 05:40 PM

As for those of you that paid $100 over the suggested $1799 list price to be first, shame on you, and shame on Best Buy.

First off I don't think many people bought the tx47 for $100 over list (12% coupon), but 2nd I don't see why someone should feel bad even if they did pay $1900 for the tv. B&M stores sell 46" "name brand" 1080p lcds for 1.5x the price of this westinghouse and people buy them everyday. I don't feel bad for those people, since they're getting what they wanted (not 1.5x the westy though). If someone's willing to pay a premium that's completely their decision. In case you didn't know, Best buy is a company, and they're out to make $, not give mom and pop a tv for the lowest price possible.

Bob Dobbs

06-01-07, 05:48 PM

i was just thinking towrds the future... and i see that the samsung uses that as a selling point.... bu to be honest, i am totally overwhelmed by all the many choices and specs...

crimsona

06-01-07, 05:59 PM

Went to the Vancouver store yesterday. Did not have any TX models. The salesperson I talked to didn't seem to think they would be carrying the TX-42 (what I was interested in) - however, he also seemed unsure of what he was saying. Checked availability online on a number of BC stores and none had it.

So, has anybody in Canada seen the TX-42 in a BB yet? Or is it truly only available online?

Jim

It's in Friday's (today's) new flyer as a new item. It should be in stock now. The sales monkeys probably just don't keep up. Just point to it on the flyer and they should direct you to one (there's a SKU number on it)

wmcclain

06-01-07, 06:05 PM

i was just thinking towrds the future... and i see that the samsung uses that as a selling point.... bu to be honest, i am totally overwhelmed by all the many choices and specs...

See: "Why you don't need HDMI 1.3": http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=789994

Deep color video is about 10 years away from widespread use. Some camcorders now and maybe games soon, but it will be a long time before you see TV programming or recorded films use those features. See: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10306417&&#post10306417

-Bill

Mr. Frog

06-01-07, 06:31 PM

Xcalibur_255

06-01-07, 07:36 PM

i was just thinking towrds the future... and i see that the samsung uses that as a selling point.... bu to be honest, i am totally overwhelmed by all the many choices and specs...
It's understandable. Since some links were already provided I'll just clarify what I meant when I said it didn't need it. Basically the improved color capabilities of HDMI 1.3 are completely wasted on LCD because the native color depth of an LCD panel is 8-bit. So Deep Color cannot offer an improvement even if source component, tv and video source all supported it. The rest of the 1.3 spec is audio features which are really only relevant to audio receivers and processors. One could make a case for being able to pass the audio signal through an HDMI 1.3 compatible tv to a 1.3 compatible receiver, but at the same time you can make the exact same case for doing the opposite and running the cable to the receiver FIRST then the tv which makes more sense anyway.

There are no new features in the 1.3 spec which are actually usable or applicable to current flatpanel technology. It's futureproofing on the part of the HDMI consortium and nothing more than another marketing point for manufacturers who adopt early for that reason.

Xcalibur_255

06-01-07, 07:39 PM

Just got this monster yesterday. I haven't done much in the way of testing yet, but I certainly am pleasantly surprised by the quality of the SD content. One small concern (and being on these forums has transferred my hypochondria onto my television): is anyone else getting a buzzing or humming sound, coming from the back of the set? Is this normal? It isn't particularly distracting unless the volume is very low, but it's there.

I think I'm getting a cold.
Is it a very mild hum? If yes then that is fairly normal. It's the powersupply for the backlight humming. Turn the backlight up and down from min to max and see if the sound becomes louder or quieter. Usually they only hum when a backlight is turned down because of the increased resistance. If this is not the source then the other possibility is the amp for the speakers, but most flatpanels are using class-T now which is silent in operation and has a low enough noise floor that the speakers themselves should be silent also. Poor internal isolation of the audio circuits can let interference from the main power supply leak into the speaker leads though.

Bob Dobbs

06-01-07, 08:46 PM

Thanks for the HDMI 1.3 info..... I am still curious about anyone hooking up a sony HC3 HDV or HC5 HDV camera via HDMI to this TV....

Also I went to 2 best buys - neither had the unit (los angeles area) but they did have a $$$ - not sure if its ok to say it... lower than I've heard.

dolph

06-02-07, 02:26 AM

40 brightness
62 contrast
40 saturation
45 hue
0 sharpness
30 backlight
neutral color temp

...compared to default...

50 brightness
50 contrast
50 saturation
50 hue
0 sharpness
30 backlight
warm color temp

Wow. I may not bother getting a calibration disc now. Thank you.
You've gotten me going in the right direction now. :)

P.S. I got my Oppo DV-981HD yesterday...testing...
P.P.S. I also ordered a whole slew of cables from monoprice... will report back on 1080p gaming from my 7900GTX.

jbradg

06-02-07, 10:02 AM

So far, I've been using the following settings:

Brightness 45
Contrast 55
Saturation 50
Hue 50
Sharpness 0
Backlight 70
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast Off

For me, the TV just got too dark to go below 50 on the backlight, but that's just my preference.

jbradg

06-02-07, 10:10 AM

I'm just glad I paid 150 less than list price. :)

Yeah, I paid $228 less than list here, so guess I can't complain.

dolph

06-02-07, 10:12 AM

jbradg

06-02-07, 10:18 AM

Try it for a while. I was so used to seeing LCDs set up to burn out my eyes @ the stores that it took a little while to adjust to a lower backlight & brightness.

And I don't know the MSRP so I'm not sure how much under I paid. I used my 12% off coupon @ BB and they just got this TV in. 1 of them. Mine...MINE! Sorry.

I've been trying Xcailbur's suggestion of lowering it and walking away from it, then coming back the next day and trying it. My room has lots of windows, so I have to play a balance between daytime and night time viewing... or adjust it.

Bob Dobbs

06-02-07, 03:19 PM

where do i find the 12% coupon?

dolph

06-02-07, 03:24 PM

It gets emailed to 'Reward Card' members but you can find it on all the deal sites when they're available.

It was only for last weekend. They have them every couple of months.

It's free to sign up.

BENZONATE

06-02-07, 03:29 PM

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1068/526631315_34b3738345_o.jpg

BENZONATE

06-02-07, 03:46 PM

will report back on 1080p gaming from my 7900GTX.

Hello dolph,

Really looking forward to your results. Is the 7900GTX a Desktop card? Not the GO 7900 GTX laptop card? I'm working on building a new system in SLI with 2 x BFG OC 7800 GTX cards and will report when completed.

Also, for those using LAPTOP video cards.

I have found, when the Laptop system is set up under the NVIDIA Dispay Properties, in "CLONE" mode and the Laptop LCD is set to "PRIMARY", the Laptop will port out at the proper resolution (1920 x 1080) via VGA on the NVIDIA GO 7800 GTX cards.

I am still unable to port out via DVI, as I receive the "NO SIGNAL DETECTED" while using the GO 7800 GTX card(The GO 7800 cards experience no difficulties displaying 1920 x 1080 via VGA/DVI, as well as many other laptop video cards).
It sounds as if the NVIDIA GO 7800 GTX needs a firmware update. I have not been able to use DVI to port out to the LVM or the TX series properly.

The NVIDIA GO 7800 cards will port out to the LVM-47w1 via DVI & VGA without a problem at the proper resolution (1920 x 1080)

**NOTE** I have heard that the GO 7300 series and the GO 7600 series have no problems porting out via DVI to either the LVM or the TX series.

~b3nz0n8

dolph

06-02-07, 03:51 PM

Ha, nice point.

Yeah, I've already tested it from my PC via component and played Counter Strike Source cloned on my LCD and my TV @ 1920x1080 @ 60fps (vsync) and it looked real good. With these new settings I'm trying out and the HMDI/DVI cable (that's not here yet) I'm thinking it'll look better. I just haven't ran the audio to the tv/receiver yet.

Mr. Frog

06-03-07, 02:46 PM

Is it a very mild hum? If yes then that is fairly normal. It's the powersupply for the backlight humming. Turn the backlight up and down from min to max and see if the sound becomes louder or quieter. Usually they only hum when a backlight is turned down because of the increased resistance. If this is not the source then the other possibility is the amp for the speakers, but most flatpanels are using class-T now which is silent in operation and has a low enough noise floor that the speakers themselves should be silent also. Poor internal isolation of the audio circuits can let interference from the main power supply leak into the speaker leads though.

You were right on the money, as usual. Once I turned up the backlight to 100, the hum magically disappeared. It isn't enough to bother me, so now that I know it isn't a problem I'll keep it at about 20 or 30. Thanks again.

I am currently freaking out aspect ratios and motion blur on DVDs (analog SD content is is still strangely quite good), but haven't had time to experiment enough to ask useful questions.

Mikeoz

06-04-07, 02:02 AM

nibbs159

06-04-07, 08:16 AM

One thing I've noticed is that the auto-switching doesn't seem to work with HDMI (I'm currently using only HDMI 2). Has anyone else noticed this or perhaps auto-switching doesn't work for hdmi inputs? Auto switching seems to work for all the other inputs so this seems strange. Anyone else with this "problem"?

My TX47 will not auto switch to a SA8300 cable box. I haven't had any other problems with the input auto switching. It will switch to PS3 and DVD player both hooked up on HDMI. It also auto switches to both component video connections. It would not auto switch to the cable box over HDMI or component so I suspect it's an issue with the cable box and not the TV. Any chance you're having trouble getting it to auto switch to a SA8300?

jbradg

06-04-07, 08:27 AM

My TX47 will not auto switch to a SA8300 cable box. I haven't had any other problems with the input auto switching. It will switch to PS3 and DVD player both hooked up on HDMI. It also auto switches to both component video connections. It would not auto switch to the cable box over HDMI or component so I suspect it's an issue with the cable box and not the TV. Any chance you're having trouble getting it to auto switch to a SA8300?

I'll have to try it with my SA8300 DVR tonight. One "issue" I had, and only one time, was the unit locked up on boot. I have my power option set to Energy Saver, so when I turn it on, it goes through the "boot" process and displays the Westinghouse "W" logo for a few seconds, then goes black, then displays the picture. Well, one time it locked up on me at the W logo and I had to unplug the TV and plug it back in to reset. I use my cable box remote, so my cable box powers on first which means there's a live signal in HDMI 1 when the TV goes through it's boot process. I'm not sure if this was the cause, but it's something to note.

huggybear

06-04-07, 09:46 AM

I'm not sure what other people's impressions are but so far the tx47 has been great. I recently picked up a ps3 and it's a great upconverting dvd player. One thing I've noticed is that the auto-switching doesn't seem to work with HDMI (I'm currently using only HDMI 2). Has anyone else noticed this or perhaps auto-switching doesn't work for hdmi inputs? Auto switching seems to work for all the other inputs so this seems strange. Anyone else with this "problem"?

I have auto switching turned off myself, but I have noticed that even when I manually select HDMI 1, the PS3 occasionally doesn't come up.... when this happens (very rarely), I just switch to another input and then back and then the PS3 signal will be detected.

I've been playing with my TX all weekend and I love it more and more every day... I only have 1 complaint and that is the audio from the tuner - the tuner will only pass 2 channels even if the show is being broadcast in 5.1.

Audio passthrough via HDMI works great - I have passed both DD and DTS 5.1 from my PS3 through the TX's SPDIF out.

mgalvez

06-04-07, 10:59 AM

Mikeoz

06-04-07, 11:07 AM

Hi, I just got the tx-47f430s. I have one stuck pixel (its stuck to red). Should I return it or live with it? Its kind of annoying for the amount I payed to have a stuck pixel. Otherwise this thing is amazing.

For Christ's sake.. one stuck pixel is not bad. I can't imagine that it would be visible under normal viewing, even if it's dead center. I think I have a green pixel stuck bottom right so it's not bad, but it's not uncommon to have a few. Jeez..

Regarding the autoswitching, I have verizon Fios, so I have a QIP6416 I believe. It's a Moto box. Perhaps it's just a cable thing because everything else seems to autoswitch fine. Like others have mentioned, I will occasionally have an issue where the ps3 or HDMI input doesn't work on the first try, but switching inputs and switching back fixes this. This is pretty rare, and I attribute this to HDMI problems and it doesn't bother me at all. So far it's a great set!

flabioh

06-04-07, 11:38 AM

Has anyone been able to get the TX 42" in their home yet? The 22nd seems so far away...

Xcalibur_255

06-04-07, 12:05 PM

I'll have to try it with my SA8300 DVR tonight. One "issue" I had, and only one time, was the unit locked up on boot. I have my power option set to Energy Saver, so when I turn it on, it goes through the "boot" process and displays the Westinghouse "W" logo for a few seconds, then goes black, then displays the picture. Well, one time it locked up on me at the W logo and I had to unplug the TV and plug it back in to reset. I use my cable box remote, so my cable box powers on first which means there's a live signal in HDMI 1 when the TV goes through it's boot process. I'm not sure if this was the cause, but it's something to note.
*shivers* Oh dear. I hope for all our sakes this ends up being isolated. I don't think either we the buyers nor Westinghouse can take another 6 month debacle over power lockups.

Xcalibur_255

06-04-07, 12:10 PM

I am currently freaking out aspect ratios and motion blur on DVDs (analog SD content is is still strangely quite good), but haven't had time to experiment enough to ask useful questions.
I think aspect control will be an issue for a long time to come. I personally like Westinghouse's minimalist approach to the subject, but many people expect non-linear stretch and zoom modes now. Usually between the tv and the aspect controls available on the source component you can get to what you want, but if you like smart stretch then there's no salvation I guess.

We'll be here to answer questions about the blur issue when you're ready to ask. That you would see it on a dvd source and not SD broadcast material is rather puzzling. The dvd player is connected via component or HDMI right?

steveklein

06-04-07, 12:29 PM

can anyone link me to the 42" (or 47") on best buy's website? i can't find it anywhere but people say they have ordered it online??

flabioh

06-04-07, 12:48 PM

can anyone link me to the 42" (or 47") on best buy's website? i can't find it anywhere but people say they have ordered it online??

I'm not aware of anyone purchasing the TX online from BB. I have never seen either on their website. People have purchased them online from other retailers though.

Bob Dobbs

06-04-07, 02:53 PM

re: buyuing at BB... i went there and they did not even know about it, but they had 2 in the back, in black boxes (I don't know what that means, but the guy said that was different, and he was not sure why they would be ther and not on display)... anyway, I asked if I could see one... Nope, only if i bought it... sorta a bummer. I'm pretty busy, not much time to buy and take home & set up, only to have to return it later... oh well... I guess I'll watch these boards and wait for a few more reviews to come out. As far as I can tell there seems to be like 4 or 5 people who haave 'em and really like 'em....

My only concerns (well my main concerns) are the deep red / blues or lack of them... and the HDMI connection to Sony HDV cameras...

any ideas on when these things will really start to get out there? they seem like they are in stealth mode...

keep posting info all you owwners...

mukdweller

06-04-07, 02:53 PM

Is there any overscan on the 47 inch via HDMI, or component when you set your xbox 360 Elite to 1080p?

Xcalibur_255

06-04-07, 02:54 PM

I'm not aware of anyone purchasing the TX online from BB. I have never seen either on their website. People have purchased them online from other retailers though.
Purchased, but not received unfortunately. To my knowledge all current owners bought in-store at Best Buy at this point.

Xcalibur_255

06-04-07, 02:55 PM

Is there any overscan on the 47 inch via HDMI, or component when you set your xbox 360 Elite to 1080p?
Not in the Standard aspect mode.

Mr. Frog

06-04-07, 03:09 PM

I think aspect control will be an issue for a long time to come. I personally like Westinghouse's minimalist approach to the subject, but many people expect non-linear stretch and zoom modes now. Usually between the tv and the aspect controls available on the source component you can get to what you want, but if you like smart stretch then there's no salvation I guess.

We'll be here to answer questions about the blur issue when you're ready to ask. That you would see it on a dvd source and not SD broadcast material is rather puzzling. The dvd player is connected via component or HDMI right?

Thanks for your patience. I think much of this has to do with the sources and not the television itself, and this is where I need to do my homework before I can ask productive questions.

My confusion over aspect ratios is largely a product of my ignorance- I never seem to know what to expect. The QAM tuner brings in a station that, according to the television at least, is 1080i and yet it has the same ratio as the 480i stations. The PBS HD station broadcasts in a gorgeous 720p that fills the entire screen. There are occasional programs on various channels that seem to have the 16x9 ratio for whatever reason, with borders below as well as on the sides, but won’t fill the screen without a little overscan. Lord of the Rings, upscaled to 720p, won’t quite fill the whole screen- but then again it has the 2.35:1 thing going on- so I think I just answered my own question. Anyway, I’m learning it’s all about the source.

As far as motion blur, the most obvious incidence was with season 3 of Buffy the Vampire Slayer. The picture itself was crystal clear, as long as nobody moved- then details would blur and things like eyes and mouths and noses would get all floaty. This was upscaled to 720p and sent through HDMI. However, and this is where I need to do a little more work, the image was in stretch mode and filled the screen regardless of what aspect ratio I set on the DVD player. I have yet to figure out whether this was a quirk of the t.v. or the player. I am less worried about this because I haven’t had that particular problem with any other 720p image. I did have a different kind of motion blur problem with The Two Towers though: during a very dark night battle quick movement was often followed by red tracers- that one worries me a little more.

Anyway, I should have a chance to dig deeper tonight once I get the kiddie in bed. Thanks again.

protovision

06-04-07, 04:41 PM

TX-42 available at Best buy Canada, for MSRP of $1700 CAD. No sign of the TX-47 yet...

WOOT!

Price needs to be better, but its a start!

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926HDS0010087882&logon=&langid=EN

I'd almost given up on the TX series coming to the Great White North, especially when they started selling off the LVM's. I started lurking in the Samsung 4665/4661f groups (can anyone compare a TX to the Samsung 4665/4661f? more $$, but is the sammy better?)

c'mon, daddy needs a new 47" tv by daddy's day.... :) so close to 'cracking a cold one' (canada, eh)

(with Fathers Day coming up, if the stores have any brains they'd start some serious sales on TVs this week)

Charlie97L

06-04-07, 04:48 PM

does anyone have a link to the BB product page for the US? I can't seem to find it.

jtgamble

06-04-07, 05:24 PM

Does anybody know if theres a place around Seattle where I could see one in a brick and mortar? I'm interested in the 42" but I'm reluctant to buy online without seeing one first.

Xcalibur_255

06-04-07, 05:29 PM

If this blurring is mostly visible while using the fill and overscan mode then the Trident video processing may be party to blame. We'll have to scrutinize this aspect of it's performance some more.

flabioh

06-04-07, 06:38 PM

Does anybody know if theres a place around Seattle where I could see one in a brick and mortar? I'm interested in the 42" but I'm reluctant to buy online without seeing one first.

Right now it seems your only bet is a visit to Best Buy (and a prayer).

irshliquor

06-04-07, 07:20 PM

Mikeoz

06-04-07, 08:12 PM

I just got a ps3 yesterday, so I've had limited time tinkering with it. Things look great so far, I've downloaded some trailers and they look great. For anyone else that has a ps3, I have a few questions..

1. Is there any way to tell if a tv is capable of 1080p/24fps output?

2. Under BD/DVD settings, leaving "BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)" to Automatic I think outputs Y Pb/Cb PR/Cr.. When popping in the THX optimizer disk, the Brightness and contrast adjustment screens seem off, and the black level range seems off. Adjusting the Brightness/contrast doesn't seem to help a whole lot (is this black crush?).

When changing the setting to RGB and using the thx optimizer, I can adjust the brightness/contrast accordingly and things look good. I do have Super-White set to on for Y Pn/Cb..., perhaps the westy doesn't support super-white? Or it could be something else?

I haven't tested things out w/ a blu-ray movie yet.

Oh yes, I haven't noticed any banding or stuck pixels at all on my display. I thought I had one but I guess not. So far so good! About my only regret so far is that I wish the set was bigger. :p

mgalvez

06-04-07, 08:28 PM

[QUOTE=Mikeoz]For Christ's sake.. one stuck pixel is not bad. I can't imagine that it would be visible under normal viewing, even if it's dead center. I think I have a green pixel stuck bottom right so it's not bad, but it's not uncommon to have a few. Jeez..

Yea, your right. Its my first big purchase for my new house, so it bothered me. I showed my girlfriend, and she just looked at me, then walked away. The set is awesome. I've been playing BF2 and Counter-Strike source @ 1920x1080, and let me tell you, it is unreal. Xbox 360 looks insane. Been playing games I have not played in a while just to see it all again. I might have to get the HD-DVD addon. Now its time to start tweaking with the adjustments. I called like 5 BBs to find out if they had them in stock. All told me no. Then I called and asked if they had the SKU, 2 of them had 2 in stock. The employees do not even know what I was talking about when I got there, then I just gave them the SKU "oh yea, it says we have two of those in the back." SKU is 8346685 btw.

Mikeoz

06-04-07, 08:47 PM

Hmm.. is it just me or is there only one setting for all HDMI inputs? :confused:

It looks like there is only one group of picture settings for all HDMI inputs.. when I adjust one all the others are adjusted as well.. Anyone else notice this?

huggybear

06-04-07, 08:52 PM

Two big things that I haven't heard much about

1. Banding. Anyone familiar with the LVM series should know about this issue. Of course I'm interested in whether or not the TX also suffers from uneven backlighting.

2. Dead pixels / other manufacturing defects. Anyone have anything to say about this subject?
Zero regrets here. Still have permagrin... the TV did "shrink" on me after a week - when I first put it in my living room I thought I wouldn't be able to go any bigger, but now I am going back to my original plan of picking up a TX-52 when it comes out and moving the 47 to the bedroom.

My only complaint as I already mentioned is not being able to get 5.1 audio out of the tuner... I am hoping (praying) this is something a future firmware update may fix. I emailed Westinghouse but (surprise surprise) didn't receive a response.

I am very happy to say that I have 0 dead pixels.

As for banding, I did detect banding for the first time over the weekend. It never occurs during normal TV viewing, but I did see it on the PS3. In Ridge Racer, after a race when that stats are being displayed there is a light blue overlay on the screen... when the camera pans left or right, banding can be seen fairly easily.

I am not concerned about it because I have never seen it while watching SD or QAM TV, DVDs, Nintendo Wii or even during gameplay on the PS3 - it's just this one screen on one game that seems to produce it (so far). I also believe it is simply inherent to LCD technology... is it worth paying thousands more for an LED backlit set when they come out? Not to me.

juicius

06-04-07, 10:08 PM

47" is currently available on Amazon from *******. Only 5 left. :) This may be the first non-BB retailer to have this TV in stock. It also shows that 42" is available as well.

flabioh

06-04-07, 11:02 PM

47" is currently available on Amazon from *******. Only 5 left. :) This may be the first non-BB retailer to have this TV in stock. It also shows that 42" is available as well.

There were plenty of people that pre-ordered from Amazon in the "anticipation" thread. Has anyone received confirmation that they have shipped from Amazon?

jtgamble

06-05-07, 12:31 AM

Last time I checked this afternoon the 47" was listed as out of stock, but the 42" was in and shipping. Not sure if the original orders have shipped or not though.

plee

06-05-07, 01:08 AM

There were plenty of people that pre-ordered from Amazon in the "anticipation" thread. Has anyone received confirmation that they have shipped from Amazon?

It's being sold through a 3rd party so it's not really Amazon's own supply of Westy's...

TLJester

06-05-07, 09:50 AM

I am still loving my set.
No dead pixels. using Comcast DVR for TV/HD and connected to PC via 15ft DVI-HDMI.
I have tweaked the settings by eye with no calibration references, mostly to reduce the lean to red. Now the picture looks outstanding. I am sure if given more then 10mins I could really get the image to 'shine'.
I will try and get a shot of my settings for those of you interested.
I am undecided with the Dynamic Contrast. For some instances it really works will, for others it emphasis the darks too much and it looks a little weird (probably as I am flicking between the two, and I wouldnt notice it otherwise). Once again all uncalibrated - so its just my quick-fix preferences.
Found a bug where shutting down then turning on causes the 'W' Westinghouse logo to appear white on white, and then all inputs have a corrupt image until i shutdown for a few seconds and then power on. have only had this happen a couple of times, mostly with the wife and baby playing with the remote... so not sure what the steps are to recreate.

I have been through a LOT of LCD screens at work, and with this TV i dont really notice the back light issues - it is there on a completely black screen, but very faintly and only as I am looking out for it.
Found that the image washes out a little when viewing from FAR below. Found this out as TV is 4ft off the ground and baby is watching Noggin from the floor directly underneath. so heads up for those of you with small kids wanting to give them the best viewing pleasure ;)

So far I have not seen any banding.

A not on the sound. I find it VERY good. So far I have only had the volume up to 30 max (for a quiet movie) bus usually have it sitting around 15. I think it goes up to 100 (though 50 would be very loud).
Sure it wont replace a 5.1 system - but its pretty damn good as-is !

No regrets at all - even the wife LOVES it ;)

Kinda wanting to set up an informal poll. How many out there actually have the set, and what are all of your impressions. After the initial "permagrin", as one of you put it when you first got it home, has worn off - do you have any regrets/reservations about the set? Any comments to say about this TV vs the LVM series monitors? Anything else you'd like to add to a prospective buyer?

What are some issues that people have been noticing - I've seen the complaints about certain HDMI devices, but my one HDMI device that I'm concerned with is my PS3 and as far as I can tell, that works OK?

I'm currently in the process of having my LVM exchanged, and just kinda want to know what I'm getting myself into as my Best Buy doesn't have one of these on display, so I'll have to be buying it "sight-unseen".

Two big things that I haven't heard much about

1. Banding. Anyone familiar with the LVM series should know about this issue. Of course I'm interested in whether or not the TX also suffers from uneven backlighting.

2. Dead pixels / other manufacturing defects. Anyone have anything to say about this subject?

Xcalibur_255

06-05-07, 12:11 PM

47" is currently available on Amazon from *******. Only 5 left. :) This may be the first non-BB retailer to have this TV in stock. It also shows that 42" is available as well.
What is with these retailers sellling the sets above MSRP?

irshliquor

06-05-07, 12:17 PM

I just checked at my local best buy last night and they have lowered their "regular" price back to MSRP. It's not on sale anymore, but at least the MSRP isn't +$100

Mikeoz

06-05-07, 01:21 PM

I just checked at my local best buy last night and they have lowered their "regular" price back to MSRP. It's not on sale anymore, but at least the MSRP isn't +$100

Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully a new coupon will come out soon (another 10-12% off), and those that bought the set recently can pricematch to the current price. :) That would definetly make it a sweet deal to buy from worstbuy.

On another note the old models look to be no longer available on bestbuy.com, so I'm guessing the newer models should start going on sale soon.

Also, has anyone else tried the picture settings for the hdmi inputs? It looks like there is only one set of video settings for all 4 hdmi inputs.. :rolleyes: It's not a dealbreaker to me but it's definetly a little irritating.

jbradg

06-05-07, 01:35 PM

Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully a new coupon will come out soon (another 10-12% off), and those that bought the set recently can pricematch to the current price. :) That would definetly make it a sweet deal to buy from worstbuy.

On another note the old models look to be no longer available on bestbuy.com, so I'm guessing the newer models should start going on sale soon.

Also, has anyone else tried the picture settings for the hdmi inputs? It looks like there is only one set of video settings for all 4 hdmi inputs.. :rolleyes: It's not a dealbreaker to me but it's definetly a little irritating.

I don't think you can price match with a coupon or use a coupon on a previously purchased item. For me, the extra $100 off the TV by upgrading to Time Warner HD DVR with the HD suite package in the store made the $100+MSRP ok because I was going to do that upgrade anyway. Then I got 12% off. He told me that promo had just expired, but since I asked about it, he gave it to me. If you plan to upgrade either a cable box or especially a DirecTV receiver to HD (with the HD programming), I'd ask about discounts at BB by doing that upgrade at the store. Get all the discounts you can! :-) If I get another 10%/12% off coupon e-mailed to me anytime soon, I'll be sure to post the link.

hake

06-05-07, 01:37 PM

Mikeoz

06-05-07, 01:43 PM

I don't think you can price match with a coupon or use a coupon on a previously purchased item. If I get another 10%/12% off coupon e-mailed to me anytime soon, I'll be sure to post the link.

Sorry, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to price match with a coupon..? Does bestbuy specifically have this stipulation for price matches (that would be retarded)? Bestbuy has a 30day return policy/price match policy right? So they could treat it as a return and rebuy easily. Of course it would have to be within 30 days of your original purchase date. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that's how it worked. I haven't price matched things before at bestbuy so I'm not sure.

If you see a new coupon for bestbuy and post it that would be very much appreciated!

flabioh

06-05-07, 01:58 PM

I have a TX-42F430S on order with BestBuy. It is supposed to arrive on the 28th of June. I was pleasantly surprised with the price and the 2 years interest free financing. I will give an update when I get it in and have it working

-Hake

Cool, man. Sounds like you are in the same boat as me. Mine is supposed to be in the store on the 22nd but I leave on vacation the next day. So, we'll be playing with it at around the same time.

cavalry12

06-05-07, 02:01 PM

Thanks for the heads up. Hopefully a new coupon will come out soon (another 10-12% off), and those that bought the set recently can pricematch to the current price. :) That would definetly make it a sweet deal to buy from worstbuy.

On another note the old models look to be no longer available on bestbuy.com, so I'm guessing the newer models should start going on sale soon.

Also, has anyone else tried the picture settings for the hdmi inputs? It looks like there is only one set of video settings for all 4 hdmi inputs.. :rolleyes: It's not a dealbreaker to me but it's definetly a little irritating.

That would be a gross oversight on Westinghouse's part considering the LVM series allows separate video settings for ALL the inputs. I know Xcalibur_255 had brought this issue up in one of the previous posts. Hopefully, someone else with the set can do some testing to either corroborate or refute your claim in regards to being only one video setting that applies to all HDMI inputs.

Mikeoz

06-05-07, 02:14 PM

That would be a gross oversight on Westinghouse's part considering the LVM series allows separate video settings for ALL the inputs. I know Xcalibur_255 had brought this issue up in one of the previous posts. Hopefully, someone else with the set can do some testing to either corroborate or refute your claim in regards to being only one video setting that applies to all HDMI inputs.

Thanks, I'm glad someone else noticed this because it seemed to slip by unnoticed in my last post.. I have a ps3 and cable box and will try different "groupings" of hdmi inputs when I get home. It sure seems like all hdmi inputs use the same video setting which is definetly a big downside. If it's confirmed, I'm debating whether it's worth returning the set or not... :(

If it's not one thing, it's another..

jbradg

06-05-07, 02:32 PM

Sorry, but I don't see why you wouldn't be able to price match with a coupon..? Does bestbuy specifically have this stipulation for price matches (that would be retarded)? Bestbuy has a 30day return policy/price match policy right? So they could treat it as a return and rebuy easily. Of course it would have to be within 30 days of your original purchase date. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that's how it worked. I haven't price matched things before at bestbuy so I'm not sure.

If you see a new coupon for bestbuy and post it that would be very much appreciated!

I guess you can read their policy for yourself and decide. I don't know if the % off is considered some sort of rebate or not.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=page&entryURLType=&entryURLID=&categoryId=cat10001&contentId=1118843518460&id=cat12098

I hope to be getting my 2nd HDMI cable tonight, so I can also try the different picture settings on 2 different HDMI inputs.

Xcalibur_255

06-05-07, 02:39 PM

Thanks, I'm glad someone else noticed this because it seemed to slip by unnoticed in my last post.. I have a ps3 and cable box and will try different "groupings" of hdmi inputs when I get home. It sure seems like all hdmi inputs use the same video setting which is definetly a big downside. If it's confirmed, I'm debating whether it's worth returning the set or not... :(

If it's not one thing, it's another..
I agree that it would be quite an oversight and remain concerned. One thing to consider here: are you adjusting just the backlight by any chance? It's possible the backlight is global. If the picture calibration controls are not discrete for each input then Westinghouse got dumber since designing the LVM series somehow.

Mikeoz

06-05-07, 02:46 PM

I guess you can read their policy for yourself and decide. I don't know if the % off is considered some sort of rebate or not.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?type=page&entryURLType=&entryURLID=&categoryId=cat10001&contentId=1118843518460&id=cat12098

I hope to be getting my 2nd HDMI cable tonight, so I can also try the different picture settings on 2 different HDMI inputs.

I don't think the coupon is considered a rebate, I believe they're referring to the traditional mail in rebates and those sort of things. The "promotional offer" is like when they throw in a free gift card with a purchase. I don't see anything in their terms that says you can't price match w/ a coupon w/in 30 days for a TV purchase. Now I just hope another coupon pops up :D

hake

06-05-07, 02:51 PM

Has anyone confirmed the ability or inability to perform firmware updates via USB?

-Hake

huggybear

06-05-07, 03:16 PM

I agree that it would be quite an oversight and remain concerned. One thing to consider here: are you adjusting just the backlight by any chance? It's possible the backlight is global. If the picture calibration controls are not discrete for each input then Westinghouse got dumber since designing the LVM series somehow.

I can confirm that the backlight setting can be adjusted per individual input (my component, tv, and hdmi settings all differ).

Dunno about individual HDMI inputs though (I only have 1 HDMI device). I wouldn't be surprised if it is just the 1 setting for all HDMI inputs.

Xcalibur_255

06-05-07, 05:10 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if it is just the 1 setting for all HDMI inputs.
We need to confirm/disprove this. If true then it is by far the set's biggest flaw. Discrete picture memory for each input needs to be mandatory. It's simply impossible to have your set properly calibrated without this feature.

protovision

06-05-07, 05:33 PM

I went to check out the 42" TX in person at BestBuy @ Sherway Gardens, Etobicoke (Canada), which happened to be set up right beside the LVM-42w2, nice!

The LVM seemed to have deeper blacks, and the colour/tone was bit different, in reds and magenta, but this might be due to someone messing with the adjustments.

I asked a BestGuy about the TX 47", and he said they would be getting them soon. I asked 'for sure?' and he said, 'yeah, we've got the 42", so we'll be getting the 47" soon'.

Sounds promising... (Best Buy USA doesn't have the 47" TX listed anymore :confused: )

p.

hake

06-05-07, 05:48 PM

I called a BestBuy in Cincinnati, OH and they had 1 47" TX in stock but no 42". I would call several BestBuy's to find the one you want.

-Hake

Mikeoz

06-05-07, 07:25 PM

We need to confirm/disprove this. If true then it is by far the set's biggest flaw. Discrete picture memory for each input needs to be mandatory. It's simply impossible to have your set properly calibrated without this feature.

Well, I just tried it out and it looks like all hdmi inputs share the same settings. It also looks like each of the same input share the same settings (component 1 and 2 share the same settings as well). Talk about a big disappointment... Now my only question is whether i will be taking the tv back. Overall I love the set (no dead/stuck pixels, good contrast), but how could the idiots that designed this overlook something so necessary. :eek: I guess I can't say I'm surprised, sadly. I guess I'll tinker with it for another week and see if there's something better out there.

I'm not inclined to return it just because it's such a pita. Anyone know of any other large 1080p lcd available for a good price? I noticed there's an affordable Mitsubishi and maybe a Toshiba?

Xcalibur_255

06-05-07, 07:32 PM

flabioh

06-05-07, 07:42 PM

I encourage everyone to call and complain to Westinghouse, or they will never fix it. I don't have (nor probably won't have in the near future) any HDMI devices, so it isn't a huge deal for me, but for the future will probably be a very big deal.

Mikeoz

06-05-07, 07:52 PM

Ouch. This might be a dealbreaker for me too. It may be upgradable via firmware but the only reason I could see them doing this is a limitation of the chipset. The LVM were independant for reach input afterall.

Ya, I was thinking the same thing. I'm willing to bet that the chipset/processor used doesn't support specific input settings for each input. It would be incomprehensible for them to not have enabled this feature if it is possible and supported by the chipset.

I was poking around and looking at other avail sets and it seems like other 1080p 46"+ sets that are comparable are costing ~$2k+. Although I do find this crappy design VERY irritating, I think I might just stick w/ the set. The PQ is very good overall, and I "only" have two hdmi inputs so I think I might just bite the bullet and keep it. This set is a bedroom set for me, but if it was a primary set for the living room/etc., I think I might be much more inclined to return it.

I personally don't plan on buying an hd-dvd player, so as long as I'm just using a ps3/blu-ray player and a verizon STB, perhaps I can live w/ sharing the picture settings for this set. I certainly understand how this could be a dealbreaker for many people. Overall the price and PQ of the set make it a keeper for me.

Bob Dobbs

06-05-07, 07:53 PM

Ok - just so I understand the 'same settings on different inputs' issue.... are you guys saying that my HDMI cable box will have the same brightness / contrast / color and so on as my HDMI DVD player, which will be the same as my HDMI sony camcorder? ... is ths I can NOT set a look for each of these? BUT - I can have different looks for each type of input - ie all HDMI will be this way and all component will be that way?

That does seem insane... can others confirm this?

cavalry12

06-05-07, 07:59 PM

Well, I just tried it out and it looks like all hdmi inputs share the same settings. It also looks like each of the same input share the same settings (component 1 and 2 share the same settings as well). Talk about a big disappointment... Now my only question is whether i will be taking the tv back. Overall I love the set (no dead/stuck pixels, good contrast), but how could the idiots that designed this overlook something so necessary. :eek: I guess I can't say I'm surprised, sadly. I guess I'll tinker with it for another week and see if there's something better out there.

I'm not inclined to return it just because it's such a pita. Anyone know of any other large 1080p lcd available for a good price? I noticed there's an affordable Mitsubishi and maybe a Toshiba?

This is just plain old asinine of them to eliminate such a standard feature on the TX series. I use the lvm-47w1, and all the inputs possess discrete picture calibration settings. Most of my devices now and in the future will be digital. At the moment, I'm using my hd dvr with DVI1, PS3 with DVI2, and HDA1 with HDMI. All three devices require different settings to attain proper calibration. It would be a pain in the behind having to adjust the settings every time based on the input source.

What is the purpose of having 4 separare HDMI inputs? One might as well buy a cheap 4 port HDMI switcher since it performs the exact same function. If I dare surmise, maybe that is exactly what Westinghouse did in order to cut cost? Xcalibur_255, would you care to comment on the feasability of such a scenario?

BENZONATE

06-05-07, 08:13 PM

Ouch. This might be a dealbreaker for me too. It may be upgradable via firmware but the only reason I could see them doing this is a limitation of the chipset. The LVM were independant for reach input afterall.

Xcalibur_255,

If you have an opportunity to test drive the LVM-47w1 for the 30 days, while the TX gets a good workover by the initial owners, grab one.

There are sacrifices to be made between the two panels.

The TX offers:

~Better SD (Surpasses the LVM, the TX offers the additional (Full Screen) "Overscan" mode(this is obtained via your HD cable box "fill" or "stretch" feature..but not as clean as the TX)

~Dynamic Contrast(good in cerain situations..as posted, others...not so much.)

~Wide array of user calibration(without the need for the service menu..yet)

~Expanded connectivity(Optical out, USB Firmware update via user(possible), 4 HDMI ports, 2 component, etc... No DVI ports are offered via the TX)

~Excellent HD picture

~Excellent Extreme angle(side - side) viewing while maintaining good Contrast & Image clarity

~Excellent PC MONITOR (The TX & LVM series *SHINE* in this area...PC use / console gaming)

Defects(Panel):

~Slight Mura

~Dead/Stuck Pixels (I had 4, some have 10, others have 1...a few have 0)

~Banding? Nothing worth noting..yet, except the PS3 blue screen/pan issue...but that's worth a bit of attention, but not a dealbreaker in most cases.

~HDMI communication issues..apparently the PS3 and other HDMI sources require different communication time locks, so changing sources and back to your preferred source allows the proper timing for the communication to occur. The LVM & TX expect communication in a specified time frame, the PS3 communicated, prior to the PS3 firmware update, at a different time frame..resulting in the blinking and other issues. It is good this issue received the required attention.

(The LVM had these issues with the PS3 prior to the PS3 firmware, a quick fix was a PIP with one source PS3 and the other main source anything else, swap the sources and the PS3 locked in.(read this on another forum)

~PIP/POP/PBP.....Not available in the TX? Even though it is on the remote & in the menu. I was not able to access this during my short time with the TX. Maybe a firmware update in the future will provide a solution.

~Power lockups: Hopefully isolated power lockup issue(1 reported)

~HDMI color calibration(1 for all ports...hopefully this is not the case..service menu?) You are absolutely correct, this is a huge flaw. Hopefuly the service menu will offer something, firmware, or someone will locate the solution.

~Possibly more...in time.

The LVM-47w1 offers: I am partial to the LVM-47w1 after having the TX & LVM side by side for a few weeks. It was a tradeoff, both panels are amazing.

~Superb PC MONITOR

~Superb HD content, the depth is amazing. It *jumps* off the screen.

~Superb colors: DEEP Red/Crimson/Blue Excellent Blacks & Brilliant whites

~I believe the color depth and blacks are better(deeper) on the LVM.

Defects(Panel):

~Flashlighting: Slight flashlighting in the 4 corners on both of my LVM-47w1 when Brightnes is above 50) Due to Panel compression during construction(as you have posted).

~Extreme Angle Viewing: Red washout & Contrast loss(greying of the screen when looking down the side of the panel towards the center.)

~0 Dead/Stuck Pixels

~0 Mura/Banding/etc.

The LVM-47w1 lacks:

~User calibration of the TX(Presets only on the LVM, unless you access the Service Menu, which could void your warranty.)

~Lack of expanded connectivity of the TX series.

My opinion after adding a 2nd LVM-47w1 to the array.

If you have the opportunity to test drive the LVM-47w1...

I highly recommend it, before you lose the opportunity.

~b3nz0n8

cozmogeek

06-05-07, 08:33 PM

*shivers* Oh dear. I hope for all our sakes this ends up being isolated. I don't think either we the buyers nor Westinghouse can take another 6 month debacle over power lockups.

My set locked up today. I turned it on and it was stuck on the HDMI1 input. The video was displaying but it wouldn't respond to any remote buttons or even the physical buttons on the side of the tv. I had to unplug it.

So far this tv seems to need to be unplugged about once a week.

cozmogeek

06-05-07, 08:49 PM

Here are some overscan pics I took of the various stretch modes.
I used the digital video essentials and the HD-DVD digital video essentials with my camera on a tripod and the dvd player hooked to component video.

I tweaked the contrast and brightness so you can see the edges of the tv.

DVD 480p (NORMAL stretch mode):
http://www.cozmo.net/albums/Westinghouse/dvd_4x3frame_normal1.jpg

DVD 480p (FILL stretch mode):
http://www.cozmo.net/albums/Westinghouse/dvd_4x3_fill.jpg

DVD 480p (OVERSCAN stretch mode):
http://www.cozmo.net/albums/Westinghouse/dvd_4x3_overscan.jpg

The clarity on this 1080 overscan pattern is impressive and even looks good in these shrunk down images..

HD-DVD 1080i 16:9 (NORMAL stretch mode):
http://www.cozmo.net/albums/Westinghouse/hddvd_16x9_normal.jpg

HD-DVD 1080i 16:9 (FILL stretch mode):
http://www.cozmo.net/albums/Westinghouse/hddvd_16x9_fill.jpg

HD-DVD 1080i 16:9 (OVERSCAN stretch mode):
http://www.cozmo.net/albums/Westinghouse/hddvd_16x9_overscan.jpg

Hope that helps some of you. The moral of the story is get an upconverting dvd player because none of the stretch modes work particularly well for 480p

cozmogeek

06-05-07, 09:41 PM

Kinda wanting to set up an informal poll. How many out there actually have the set, and what are all of your impressions. After the initial "permagrin", as one of you put it when you first got it home, has worn off - do you have any regrets/reservations about the set? Any comments to say about this TV vs the LVM series monitors? Anything else you'd like to add to a prospective buyer?

What are some issues that people have been noticing - I've seen the complaints about certain HDMI devices, but my one HDMI device that I'm concerned with is my PS3 and as far as I can tell, that works OK?

I'm currently in the process of having my LVM exchanged, and just kinda want to know what I'm getting myself into as my Best Buy doesn't have one of these on display, so I'll have to be buying it "sight-unseen".

Two big things that I haven't heard much about

1. Banding. Anyone familiar with the LVM series should know about this issue. Of course I'm interested in whether or not the TX also suffers from uneven backlighting.

2. Dead pixels / other manufacturing defects. Anyone have anything to say about this subject?

I'm still liking this set. It has issues but they're not bad enough to make me want to return it. The biggest being that my hd-dvd player doesn't work via HDMI. the other being that it won't display 16:9 480p material without using one of the ugly stretch modes. The lockups seem like they could also become a really annoying issue over time. I think after enough people buy these sets and all run into the same handful of problems they'll come out with a firmware update which will make this tv that much better.

I haven't noticed any dead or stuck pixels at all on mine.

All the issues aside the hd-dvd via component (1080i) and HD from comcast blow me away. It looks awesome.

Ace_of_Sevens

06-06-07, 02:25 AM

One stuck red pixel on mine. My main complaint with it is the stretch mode. I can use an upconverting player for DVDs, but for Xbox and Wii games I'm stuck with a somewhat distorted image missing the top and bottom. Wesntinghouse still hasn't gotten back to me on this.

flabioh

06-06-07, 07:39 AM

Did you send an email and are waiting a response or did you actually talk to someone and they said they would have to get back to you?

jbradg

06-06-07, 09:27 AM

jbradg

06-06-07, 09:32 AM

My set locked up today. I turned it on and it was stuck on the HDMI1 input. The video was displaying but it wouldn't respond to any remote buttons or even the physical buttons on the side of the tv. I had to unplug it.

So far this tv seems to need to be unplugged about once a week.

So far I've only had that one power on lockup, thankfully. I hope it doesn't become an issue, but I did e-mail Westinghouse about it. No reply as of yet.

huggybear

06-06-07, 09:34 AM

I popped in a USB stick and powered on the set - I can verify that the port is active as the stick's power light came on... obviously nothing happened beyond that as I'm sure the set looks for a specific file in order to trigger a firmware update. I had a few jpgs and mp3s on there, just in case :)

huggybear

06-06-07, 09:39 AM

pete4

06-06-07, 10:58 AM

I tried it last night as well and I got the same results... picture settings stayed the same on the HDMI inputs. I'll be keeping the TV, but maybe we can hope this will be a firmware change AND that firmware updates will be able to be done by the consumer.

I don't think this is as bad as one may think. In theory HDMI is all digital input, in other words whole bunch of zeros and ones. So if somebody would calibrate TV for certain brightness, color and contrast levels, the same settings should work on every HDMI input. In other words lets say you're watching HD movie from cable box, then record it to DVR and then copy it to DVHS and then play it back from those 3 separate devices, all of them would send exactly the same digital signal and exactly the same settings would be required on each input. Even if you used computer on one of the HDMI inputs and cable box on the other, it still won't be a problem since computer output can be adjusted on the computer to match your TV settings.
As a side note I find it interesting that many people will go extra mile to save few bucks and pay lowest possible price for their HDTV, but at the same time will complain if the TV maker makes some cost cutting design decisions to provide that lower price to the consumers, even if the cost cutting in reality doesn't affect that much. I mean would you rather have only one HDMI input and then go out and spend extra money for the switcher or have this build inside TV, even with the given limitations of one common setting for all? Analog inputs can vary a lot between devices and you need separate calibration for each device and maybe even need to recalibrate again later on, but digital inputs are exactly defined and lets say 128/128/128 will always be medium gray even if video comes from your cellphone, so once your TV is calibrated properly to show 128/128/128 as medium gray, why would you need to have different settings for each HDMI input???

Mikeoz

06-06-07, 11:50 AM

so once your TV is calibrated properly to show 128/128/128 as medium gray, why would you need to have different settings for each HDMI input???

Your point is well taken, but the point is that signals are constantly mucked with along the path which may require adjustments on the part of the end user. Cable/broadcast tv is a great example. The stream may get re-encoded or compressed as it comes down the pipe, which means the original pixel was 128/128/128, but it's now 100/100/100, so the adjustment helps. Who knows for sure how much processing goes on in other devices like blu-ray and hd-dvd players, but I'm sure there aren't many devices that transfer bit for bit to the display. Every single device has to use some processing (ranging from alot to very little) where the end result may not be perfect, resulting in tweaking being necessary. An upconverting dvd player may interpret that a pixel should be brighter than your cable box/ps3, and that's where the individual adjustments help.

I agree you can't have everything, and the price is great for this set, but we're mainly just trying to make anyone aware of this issue for those that are interested in this set. Like I said, it's not a deal breaker for me, but for some it might be.

flabioh

06-06-07, 11:59 AM

If I have a computer connected through DVI/HDMI to this set I can alter the color/brightness/contrast/etc at the Video Card level. This would lead me to believe that DVD players or any digital device is not going to send the exact same signal to the TV as my computer will because these devices process the digital images differently from one another depending on the chipsets that are used.

At the same time, I agree that we might be expecting a little too much from the TX series in this regard. If there were only one HDMI port and we had to buy our own HDMI hub we'd all be pissed off. But they basically included the hub with the TV and provided the connectivity. Sure, it is a half ass solution to satisfy marketing requirements, but it definitely reduces the cost of the TV (which seriously is the number one selling point of this TV for me).

The only major beef I have with the set is the lack of 5.1 off the QAM tuner which when I get my set I'm going to complain about... A LOT, until they fix it.

huggybear, glad you were gutsy enough to put the USB stick in the set and turn it on. If Westinghouse actually releases these firmware updates to the general public (or at least to AVS forum members) that would be a HUGE bonus on this TV. I really can't see it happening, but maybe firmware updates will get released in the wild and someone will post a link or something to it.

protovision

06-06-07, 12:20 PM

jbradg

06-06-07, 12:39 PM

huggybear

06-06-07, 12:46 PM

huggybear, glad you were gutsy enough to put the USB stick in the set and turn it on.

Thanks, that was nothing - I've been trying to work up the courage to attempt to enter the service menu using the codes from the LVM series but I doubt that's gonna happen - I am damn pleased with the set as is and I don't want to screw something up (something could have easily changed which may end up producing less than desireable results).

I am not concerned with the HDMI settings issue but I agree that no 5.1 out of the internal tuner (both QAM and ATSC) is something that must be addressed (if the hardware enables it to be addressed).

pete4

06-06-07, 01:00 PM

Let me clear this up: I mentioned computers as specific example since they run color gamut from 0-255 and most HDMI equipment runs 8-245, so there are differences here right from the spec sheet and MAC is totally different ball game all together, therefore different settings are almost required here, but as I said before you can make those adjustments, like gamma, inside windows without adjusting TV. On the other hand, yes I agree signal could be messed up before it's even broadcast for example, but those differences could even be between channels or even different programs on the same channel, are you going to calibrate your TV for each movie they play? I don't think so either and even seperate memory for each HDMI input won't help here at all.
My point is:
it's very nice to have 4 HDMI inputs instead of 1 or 2, even with those limitations
and those limitations are not as bad when you think about it.
I would probably worry more about PIP than HDMI settings memory, because to be affected by that not only you have to have more than one HDMI device, but one would have to be responsible for somehow delivering out of spec signal.

If I have a computer connected through DVI/HDMI to this set I can alter the color/brightness/contrast/etc at the Video Card level. This would lead me to believe that DVD players or any digital device is not going to send the exact same signal to the TV as my computer will because these devices process the digital images differently from one another depending on the chipsets that are used.

At the same time, I agree that we might be expecting a little too much from the TX series in this regard. If there were only one HDMI port and we had to buy our own HDMI hub we'd all be pissed off. But they basically included the hub with the TV and provided the connectivity. Sure, it is a half ass solution to satisfy marketing requirements, but it definitely reduces the cost of the TV (which seriously is the number one selling point of this TV for me).

The only major beef I have with the set is the lack of 5.1 off the QAM tuner which when I get my set I'm going to complain about... A LOT, until they fix it.

huggybear, glad you were gutsy enough to put the USB stick in the set and turn it on. If Westinghouse actually releases these firmware updates to the general public (or at least to AVS forum members) that would be a HUGE bonus on this TV. I really can't see it happening, but maybe firmware updates will get released in the wild and someone will post a link or something to it.

Xcalibur_255

06-06-07, 02:09 PM

I don't think this is as bad as one may think. In theory HDMI is all digital input, in other words whole bunch of zeros and ones. So if somebody would calibrate TV for certain brightness, color and contrast levels, the same settings should work on every HDMI input. In other words lets say you're watching HD movie from cable box, then record it to DVR and then copy it to DVHS and then play it back from those 3 separate devices, all of them would send exactly the same digital signal and exactly the same settings would be required on each input. Even if you used computer on one of the HDMI inputs and cable box on the other, it still won't be a problem since computer output can be adjusted on the computer to match your TV settings.
As a side note I find it interesting that many people will go extra mile to save few bucks and pay lowest possible price for their HDTV, but at the same time will complain if the TV maker makes some cost cutting design decisions to provide that lower price to the consumers, even if the cost cutting in reality doesn't affect that much. I mean would you rather have only one HDMI input and then go out and spend extra money for the switcher or have this build inside TV, even with the given limitations of one common setting for all? Analog inputs can vary a lot between devices and you need separate calibration for each device and maybe even need to recalibrate again later on, but digital inputs are exactly defined and lets say 128/128/128 will always be medium gray even if video comes from your cellphone, so once your TV is calibrated properly to show 128/128/128 as medium gray, why would you need to have different settings for each HDMI input???
Well, the issue here is that you make the assumption that the manufacturer of the source components have done their job correctly and have their video output levels at reference. This is an unwise assumption. This is exactly how it is supposed to be, but it is not how it is sadly. The levels vary all over the place, usually with the whites too hot and the black can be all over the place. It's absolutely necessary for the tv's white and black points to be customizable for each device or having it properly calibrated for all viewing situations is basically impossible. The people here are not nitpicking the absence of a feature and you can't defend westinghouse because they are a budget brand. This funcitonality is completely NECESSARY and it's presence should be mandatory on all tvs regardless of price or status.

Xcalibur_255

06-06-07, 02:17 PM

What is the purpose of having 4 separare HDMI inputs? One might as well buy a cheap 4 port HDMI switcher since it performs the exact same function. If I dare surmise, maybe that is exactly what Westinghouse did in order to cut cost? Xcalibur_255, would you care to comment on the feasability of such a scenario?
To be honest this type of cost cutting hadn't occurred to me until now. I suppose it is possible. It may also be a limitation of the signal processing and input capabilities of the Trident chipset. If it's a low-end version (and let's not kid, it probably is) then it'll have limited input/output abilities. An internal integrated hub could be a way to bypass this bottleneck, but it's all speculation. I will say that I don't trust Westinghouse to pull off such a design hack without problem.

It's also entirely possible that they simply grouped the picture memory by input type for some different reason all together. In theory, like pete4 mentioned above, you should be able to get away with this and perhaps since they're a bunch of monitor guys they thought it'd be fine. In the real world things just aren't that rosy.

Has anybody checked to see if the component inputs also share one calibration memory? If both of those are discrete the theory of the HDMI being implemented via hub is pretty concrete then.

flabioh

06-06-07, 02:53 PM

I thought I read an a earlier post that someone said that all the HDMI inputs shared the same settings and all Component shared the same settings as well.

irshliquor

06-06-07, 03:07 PM

irshliquor

06-06-07, 03:10 PM

huggybear

06-06-07, 03:18 PM

I don't have this set yet, but in my area the feed from my local channels that comes from my cable company to my SA 8300HD box is 2-ch stereo - on EVERYTHING. Maybe those channels aren't broadcast in your area either if you're not passing 5.1? I don't know just my $0.02.

That's what I thought at first but I also tested with my HDHomerun.... this device has built-in QAM and ATSC tuners and streams to the VLC media player over your network. In VLC, I was able to confirm that 6 channel audio was present in the stream (during a CSI broadcast here in Raleigh).

Audio passthrough via the SPDIF on the TX depends entirely on the source - I had to change a bunch of stuff on my PS3 to passthrough 5.1. The problem is that if the source is the internal tuner, there are no audio options to select the stream that you want. This is why I am hoping it can be resolved with a firmware update - the hardware is capable of passing 5.1 audio through, but software needs to be added so that the user can select it.

huggybear

06-06-07, 03:25 PM

Ok, here's another 10% / 12% off BB coupon good June 6th - June 17th.

http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/en_US/images/external/emails/060107_dads_day_coupons_final.pdf

If anybody tries to use this for a price match for their previous purchase at BB, let me know if it works for you.

They're tempting me to buy the Toshiba HD-A20 :)

SWEET! jbradg, you're the best with these great coupon links!

I hope the HD-DVD player exclusion doesn't include the XBOX 360 HD-DVD drive... I want to pick one up to mate with the PS3 running Linux... playing all possible formats with 1 device hooked up to the TX-47 with 1 cable - priceless!

jbradg

06-06-07, 03:30 PM

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it says it excludes HD-DVD players and Blu-Ray Players.

:( Well, I'll just keep the DVD upconvert I have now and do HD DVD later when the HD-A20 comes down in price.

irshliquor

06-06-07, 03:43 PM

:( Well, I'll just keep the DVD upconvert I have now and do HD DVD later when the HD-A20 comes down in price.

There's no harm in trying to get an incompetent employee that gives you the discount anyway is there?

Mikeoz

06-06-07, 03:54 PM

Has anybody checked to see if the component inputs also share one calibration memory? If both of those are discrete the theory of the HDMI being implemented via hub is pretty concrete then.

Yup, they do. All component inputs share one calibration.

Mikeoz

06-06-07, 03:56 PM

SWEET! jbradg, you're the best with these great coupon links!

I hope the HD-DVD player exclusion doesn't include the XBOX 360 HD-DVD drive... I want to pick one up to mate with the PS3 running Linux... playing all possible formats with 1 device hooked up to the TX-47 with 1 cable - priceless!

Ya thanks jbradg, I'm gonna call bestbuy before I get outta work and see if the regular price of the tx47 dropped. If it did, I see absolutely no reason why we all can't pricematch the tv (with the 12%coupon) to the lower price. Of course you have to still be in w/in your 30day purchase date. :)

cavalry12

06-06-07, 04:09 PM

Let me clear this up: I mentioned computers as specific example since they run color gamut from 0-255 and most HDMI equipment runs 8-245, so there are differences here right from the spec sheet and MAC is totally different ball game all together, therefore different settings are almost required here, but as I said before you can make those adjustments, like gamma, inside windows without adjusting TV. On the other hand, yes I agree signal could be messed up before it's even broadcast for example, but those differences could even be between channels or even different programs on the same channel, are you going to calibrate your TV for each movie they play? I don't think so either and even seperate memory for each HDMI input won't help here at all.
My point is:
it's very nice to have 4 HDMI inputs instead of 1 or 2, even with those limitations
and those limitations are not as bad when you think about it.
I would probably worry more about PIP than HDMI settings memory, because to be affected by that not only you have to have more than one HDMI device, but one would have to be responsible for somehow delivering out of spec signal.

What I'm about to write is all based on first hand experience using my lvm-47w1:

In theory, a set calibrated for 16-235 RGB should display the exact image for all the input sources, but alas that is not the case even when it comes to high resolution sources such as HD DVD and Blu-ray.

In my case, things are slightly different since DVI expects 0-255 while the HDMI expects 16-235. I have my hd dvr hooked into DVI1, Playstation 3 through DVI2, and Toshiba HD DVD through HDMI. But I have gone through the trouble of hooking them all up to the the single HDMI input for various reasons, and the results have been widely varied.

I have used AVIA, INHD HD test patterns for cable, Blu-ray test patterns burned using AVCHD, and test patterns in HD DVD. Not only are the brightness and contrast setting staggeringly varied for all three using the same HDMI input, the color and hue settings are way off among the three input sources. If you were correct in your assumption, my findings above would certainly contradict it. Using a PC, however, is never a problem because the display attributes can be adjusted through the software, but such an option and with such wide level of control is, unfortunately, not available on consumer electronics.

Time and time again it has been said on these forums that one calibrates one's display input for the source, and one set of parameters most certainly does not fit all as evident by what I have posted.

Also, you mentioned more than one HDMI devices being uncommon. Majority of us with hd sets do have more than one HDMI enabled device. I have already saturated my DVI/HDMI inputs and am in need of one more to hook my HDMI enabled Xbox 360, which at the moment is using VGA. One of the DVI devices also needs to be unhooked sporadically to allow hooking up my PC to one of the DVI inputs. I could care less for PIP since for me that is a rarely used option.

javier911

06-06-07, 04:27 PM

For my fellow canucks:

http://www.bestbuy.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0926HDS0010087884&logon=&langid=EN

$1999 CDN

Doesn't seem to have store availability anywhere, only via website/special delivery. Hopefully this will change and the stores will start stocking them.

p.

My local store told me as of right now they have no plans to display the 47" TX in store. She informed that it is able to be ordered from the store, but they will not actually have any there locally and will not have any on display. I'm quite certain this will eventually change, might only be a shelf space issue right now.

They do have 42" TXs in stock and on display.

huggybear

06-06-07, 04:43 PM

Ya thanks jbradg, I'm gonna call bestbuy before I get outta work and see if the regular price of the tx47 dropped. If it did, I see absolutely no reason why we all can't pricematch the tv (with the 12%coupon) to the lower price. Of course you have to still be in w/in your 30day purchase date. :)

I bought mine at the original price ($100 above MSRP) - 12% with the Memorial Day coupon. A few days later the price dropped and someone reported that they were able to pick one up at the sale price plus the - 12% off with the coupon.

So I went back to Best Buy and spoke to the head blue shirt. The person who got it for the sale price plus 12% off got real lucky - they aren't supposed to do that. He showed me on the coupon where it says it only applies to regularly priced items.

At any rate, he did give me an additional $30 off (bringing my total to $45 less than what I was originally going to pay for it at Amazon)... always raise a fuss with the manager... the vast majority of the time you'll get something out of it :)

Xcalibur_255

06-06-07, 04:57 PM

Yup, they do. All component inputs share one calibration.
*sigh* Fail.

Well, thanks for checking. Decisions, decisions........

Troyd

06-06-07, 05:02 PM

I bought mine at the original price ($100 above MSRP) - 12% with the Memorial Day coupon. A few days later the price dropped and someone reported that they were able to pick one up at the sale price plus the - 12% off with the coupon.

So I went back to Best Buy and spoke to the head blue shirt. The person who got it for the sale price plus 12% off got real lucky - they aren't supposed to do that. He showed me on the coupon where it says it only applies to regularly priced items.

At any rate, he did give me an additional $30 off (bringing my total to $45 less than what I was originally going to pay for it at Amazon)... always raise a fuss with the manager... the vast majority of the time you'll get something out of it :)

But the set was never on sale or was it? The new lower price is now the MSRP which to me seems like you should be able to get it at that price.

-Troy

DynStatic

06-06-07, 05:09 PM

Mikeoz

06-06-07, 05:33 PM

But the set was never on sale or was it? The new lower price is now the MSRP which to me seems like you should be able to get it at that price.

-Troy

The set was on "sale" for some stupid amount, like $100 off. I'm saying that if the new REGULAR price is $100 lower than it was before, we can get a price adjustment to 12% off the NEW lower regular price (with the new coupon). I did not get 12% off the sale price but the original non-sale price, for those that did they def got lucky.

Mikeoz

06-06-07, 06:10 PM

I just called up the local BB and the price is now MSRP.. the guy said price matching should not be a problem so I'll proly head over there tonight and price match it w/ the new coupon! :D

jbr439

06-06-07, 08:03 PM

Yup, they do. All component inputs share one calibration.

No real reason to believe this will make a difference, but did you folks try changing the calibrations with Autosource on and then off?

Justing taking a WAG that maybe Autosource is fouling it up.

FWIW, I don't own one of these sets, but I am interested.

flabioh

06-06-07, 10:54 PM

I just called up the local BB and the price is now MSRP.. the guy said price matching should not be a problem so I'll proly head over there tonight and price match it w/ the new coupon! :D

How did it go?

Mikeoz

06-07-07, 01:14 AM

No real reason to believe this will make a difference, but did you folks try changing the calibrations with Autosource on and then off?

Justing taking a WAG that maybe Autosource is fouling it up.

That's a good point.. I tried your suggestion and had no luck though. I tried different permutations between the HDMI inputs with autosource off and no luck.

The one thing I've noticed that IS strange, is that picture settings for different HDMI inputs sort of exist in two different states.. "On" and "off". I tried modifying the picture settings on an HDMI input where the source wasn't on or connected, and it SEEMS to save those settings for the HDMI input until a device is hooked upto that port and switched on, in which case the settings revert to the "on" settings which are assigned to the other input, or the previous device that was switched on, on another hdmi port. There seems to be an "off" group of video settings for a specific input until a device is switched on for that hdmi port, in which case the settings revert back to the "on" settings. Very strange.

Who knows what the hell the chipset is doing and perhaps I'm looking into it too much but it's interesting/strange none the less.

Mikeoz

06-07-07, 01:15 AM

How did it go?

Everything went fine as expected! :D I was able to get the 12% off the msrp price which makes it a VERY good deal imo! I just went upto the customer service desk and said the price dropped and presented the new coupon and voila!

Xcalibur_255

06-07-07, 03:04 AM

That's a good point.. I tried your suggestion and had no luck though. I tried different permutations between the HDMI inputs with autosource off and no luck.

The one thing I've noticed that IS strange, is that picture settings for different HDMI inputs sort of exist in two different states.. "On" and "off". I tried modifying the picture settings on an HDMI input where the source wasn't on or connected, and it SEEMS to save those settings for the HDMI input until a device is hooked upto that port and switched on, in which case the settings revert to the "on" settings which are assigned to the other input, or the previous device that was switched on, on another hdmi port. There seems to be an "off" group of video settings for a specific input until a device is switched on for that hdmi port, in which case the settings revert back to the "on" settings. Very strange.

Who knows what the hell the chipset is doing and perhaps I'm looking into it too much but it's interesting/strange none the less.
Hmmmm. Are you displaying the same content throughout all of this? It's possible the settings are discrete for signal type. It's something that's been done, but it's not terribly common. It could store different settings depending upon whether it's receiving 720 or 1080 video for example. This also is a WAG to be sure, but I'd rather it be that than a new bug found.

cavalry12

06-07-07, 05:17 AM

Hmmmm. Are you displaying the same content throughout all of this? It's possible the settings are discrete for signal type. It's something that's been done, but it's not terribly common. It could store different settings depending upon whether it's receiving 720 or 1080 video for example. This also is a WAG to be sure, but I'd rather it be that than a new bug found.

I just wanted to add that on my 47W1, not only are there discrete settings for each input, there are also discrete settings each for 1080i/720p and 480p through DVI1. So, one can run high resolution sources with one set while other, such as progressive scan dvd player or older consoles, with different settings through the same input. It only applies to DVI1, though, possibly due to the fact that DVI1 is being processed by a separate chip while DVI2 and HDMI are handled by another.

YOTR

06-07-07, 06:19 AM

Does anyone know when the 42" model will be in stock at BB? I noticed One Call has it in stock now but I would rather get it from a B&M store for the 30 return policy. Thanks!

flabioh

06-07-07, 07:31 AM

Does anyone know when the 42" model will be in stock at BB? I noticed One Call has it in stock now but I would rather get it from a B&M store for the 30 return policy. Thanks!

It is in stock at some Best Buy stores. The store/region just needs to decide to carry it. There have been several reports of Canadian Best Buys carrying it. If your particular store does not have it you can have them order it for you (I only have 15 days left until I get mine from Best Buy....).

flabioh

06-07-07, 08:08 AM

I don't think this question has been asked yet. Has anyone been able to use a Logitech Harmony remote with this TV and been able to find discrete input codes or anything like that?

jbradg

06-07-07, 08:26 AM

Everything went fine as expected! :D I was able to get the 12% off the msrp price which makes it a VERY good deal imo! I just went upto the customer service desk and said the price dropped and presented the new coupon and voila!

Did the do a refund and then resale or just credit you the $100 plus the 12% off? I got $100 off by upgrading to Time Warner HD which was an expired promo, but the guy gave it to me anyway. If I can't get that Time Warner discount again, then for me the $100 price drop to actual MSRP might be a wash if they do a refund and then a resale.

PanzerBoxb

06-07-07, 09:49 AM

irshliquor

06-07-07, 11:13 AM

I did the deed yesterday and ordered the TX-47F30S from my local Best Buy. Much to my delight it will be available at the store in three days (Saturday). They also have the Yamaha 6090 receiver on sale so I may pic that up to upgrade my current setup.

I did the same thing. Best Buy is replacing my 42w2 and I didn't have to pay anything or even take my TV back to the store for them to order me the new one. We'll take care of it all on Saturday - which means I'll get to keep a TV in my house the whole time, something that I think the wife appreciates.

I'm pretty excited and I hope I don't regret the change. My 42w2 has two 3-4" darker areas (banding) along the right and left sides - it almost looks like the burn in on my friend's old DLP from watching too much SD content not stretched. But aside from that it has a great panel - 0 dead pixels, etc...

PanzerBoxb

06-07-07, 11:21 AM

I did the same thing. Best Buy is replacing my 42w2 and I didn't have to pay anything or even take my TV back to the store for them to order me the new one. We'll take care of it all on Saturday - which means I'll get to keep a TV in my house the whole time, something that I think the wife appreciates.

I'm pretty excited and I hope I don't regret the change. My 42w2 has two 3-4" darker areas (banding) along the right and left sides - it almost looks like the burn in on my friend's old DLP from watching too much SD content not stretched. But aside from that it has a great panel - 0 dead pixels, etc...

I am curious, irishliquor, did you purchase the BB replacement plan? I declined it but now I am wondering.

irshliquor

06-07-07, 11:44 AM

I am curious, irishliquor, did you purchase the BB replacement plan? I declined it but now I am wondering.

Yes, I did purchase the service plan. On TV's like this BB offers the PSP (Performance Service Plan), which means that they have to service the TV up to 4 times for the same issue before replacing it. In my case, they told me that there is not an authorized service center in my area so they offered to replace it site-unseen.

I'm hoping that said plan also transfers to my replacement product. In my opinion it was worth the $ just for the peace of mind that it offered once people started mentioning problems with the 42w2 and the PS3, especially since I wasn't able to get my PS3 until May of this year.

Mikeoz

06-07-07, 11:47 AM

Hmmmm. Are you displaying the same content throughout all of this? It's possible the settings are discrete for signal type. It's something that's been done, but it's not terribly common. It could store different settings depending upon whether it's receiving 720 or 1080 video for example. This also is a WAG to be sure, but I'd rather it be that than a new bug found.

Hmm good idea, i didn't think about changing the resolution. I did try changing the color space (rgb/ycc) but that didn't work. Right now I have the verizon stb outputting 1080i, and the ps3 outputting 1080p. I can try tonight whether 720p would have a different setting from 1080i/p. It definetly sounds plausible..

Only "problem" with this is that I don't care to feed the tv <1080i/p. So, it's pretty much a moot point to myself, but maybe it might be a plus for some people.

jbradg

06-07-07, 11:54 AM

Hmm good idea, i didn't think about changing the resolution. I did try changing the color space (rgb/ycc) but that didn't work. Right now I have the verizon stb outputting 1080i, and the ps3 outputting 1080p. I can try tonight whether 720p would have a different setting from 1080i/p. It definetly sounds plausible..

Only "problem" with this is that I don't care to feed the tv <1080i/p. So, it's pretty much a moot point to myself, but maybe it might be a plus for some people.

I do know the PQ settings (like backlight) can be different when switching from 480p to 720p. I have my cable box set to output both so when I go to SD channels, it outputs 480p and my HD programming is 720p. In my testing so far, I just preferred 720p vs 1080i on this LCD TV. I'm not sure if the PQ settings can be different when going from 720p to 1080i... I didn't test that.

flabioh

06-07-07, 11:59 AM

I did the same thing. Best Buy is replacing my 42w2 and I didn't have to pay anything or even take my TV back to the store for them to order me the new one. We'll take care of it all on Saturday - which means I'll get to keep a TV in my house the whole time, something that I think the wife appreciates.

I'm pretty excited and I hope I don't regret the change. My 42w2 has two 3-4" darker areas (banding) along the right and left sides - it almost looks like the burn in on my friend's old DLP from watching too much SD content not stretched. But aside from that it has a great panel - 0 dead pixels, etc...

What the... you're getting the set on Saturday? Why is my Best Buy so freakin' slow!

irshliquor

06-07-07, 12:15 PM

What the... you're getting the set on Saturday? Why is my Best Buy so freakin' slow!

I've got my fingers crossed. I'm looking forward to it, that's for sure.

Does anyone who's had a TV replaced under the PSP at Best Buy know whether or not the PSP follows over to the new set. I'm still covered under the Manufacturer's warranty, not sure if that matters or not.

huggybear

06-07-07, 12:23 PM

So BB's regular price (i.e. not sale or special price) is now MSRP?

irshliquor

06-07-07, 12:24 PM

So BB's regular price (i.e. not sale or special price) is now MSRP?

yes.

huggybear

06-07-07, 12:37 PM

yes.

Back to BB I go to whittle this set down some more... MSRP - 12% is such a sweet deal. Hopefully the TX-52 is on sale by Thanksgiving and a similar coupon is floating around.

flabioh

06-07-07, 12:49 PM

hake

06-07-07, 12:52 PM

Is price talk not allowed here? I am real interested in what people have been paying for their TX series.

x84HurstOlds

06-07-07, 01:00 PM

Found a bug where shutting down then turning on causes the 'W' Westinghouse logo to appear white on white, and then all inputs have a corrupt image until i shutdown for a few seconds and then power on. have only had this happen a couple of times, mostly with the wife and baby playing with the remote... so not sure what the steps are to recreate.

I have had this happen once as well. On the 'W' screen, it was also white on white, but with a black vertical line down the middle. Caused the TV to lockup. Unplugged and turned on, it came back better, but still with display corruption - like blue noise on white surfaces, etc. Second unplug/reboot fixed it.

Also have had some lockup issues related to HDMI audio from my S3 TiVo. The audio will sometimes come in "stuttery", as in, 1 second on, 1 second off, repeat, so instead of "we're going to the store" I hear "w-r- g-in t- -e st-r..." Happened this morning and caused lockup, but I don't have another HDMI source with audio (HTPC is using a DVI to HDMI converter). If it didn't lock up, I wouldn't care, since I just need to straighten out my furniture and cabling and I'll be using my stereo all the time anyway.

Have 2 or 3 stuck pixels (of maybe sub-pixels?), scattered, don't bother me at all. Really the lockups are my only concern at this point, no sign of banding. Very busy right now, so not as much time to play with it (or post about it here) as I would like, should be a little better at the end of this month.

Anyone else experience the HDMI audio issue?

Ed

jbradg

06-07-07, 01:12 PM

What size of a UPS do you think the TX (42") will require? I mainly just want to protect the tv and condition the power a little. Runtime isn't all that important to me. I couldn't find any power usage specs on the TVs.

The manual says 6 A, but not at a specific voltage and this TV does 100-264V states the manual. If that 6A is at 125V, that's 750VA. Right now I'm using a 1400VA to power everything (TV, cable box, DVD player, and receiver) and with the backlight on 80-100 I get 2 out of 5 load lights lit. 70 or below backlight, it drops to 1 light lit. I'm partial to APC Smart-UPS or a UPS that puts out a cleaner sine wave (on backup) than the cheap ones, but that's just me. I'll probably put in a 1000VA to power everything.

Edit: Sorry, the information I have posted is with a TX 47 and you asked about a TX 42.

huggybear

06-07-07, 01:30 PM

jbradg

06-07-07, 01:36 PM

wmcclain

06-07-07, 01:41 PM

Is price talk not allowed here? I am real interested in what people have been paying for their TX series.

The AVSForum rule is MSRP only in the public forums. I don't think there are any restrictions on what you can ask or tell people about prices in personal messages.

-Bill

huggybear

06-07-07, 01:56 PM

Well, I just got off the phone with Westinghouse and I am out of luck - I have to bring it back to BB. All the CSR had me do is try a different outlet, which I already tried. He said that someone with an LVM called in with the same problem and switching outlets fixed it.

This couldn't suck any more - after all the trouble of hauling this thing home, I have to haul it right back. And I am sure they don't have any in stock to replace it with.

So now I have to ask myself if I want an exchange or a straight refund. I dunno if I just got unlucky or if there are some serious quality control issues due to rushing these things to market (my set had a build date of apr 13).

If I do go for an exchange, I have to add $249 to the price as I would definitely get the service plan. If this happened 15 days from now, the CSR said I would be shipping this beast to California on my dime.

For those that already bought one and didn't get a service plan from BB - you have up to 30 days after your purchase to get one - might be a good idea :(

flabioh

06-07-07, 02:41 PM

huggybear, thanks for the heads up! Sorry that it bombed on ya! How much do you guys think it would cost to ship a TV this size to Westinghouse? Debating whether or not it is worth it to get the Service Plan.

jbradg, that should get me enough information about power requirements for the 42". Thanks!

PanzerBoxb

06-07-07, 03:14 PM

Sorry to hear about that, huggybear. I would be extremely....irate...if that happens to my unit. I will be getting the service plan when I go to pick up my receiver today.

elenaran

06-07-07, 04:09 PM

The manual says 6 A, but not at a specific voltage and this TV does 100-264V states the manual. If that 6A is at 125V, that's 750VA. Right now I'm using a 1400VA to power everything (TV, cable box, DVD player, and receiver) and with the backlight on 80-100 I get 2 out of 5 load lights lit. 70 or below backlight, it drops to 1 light lit. I'm partial to APC Smart-UPS or a UPS that puts out a cleaner sine wave (on backup) than the cheap ones, but that's just me. I'll probably put in a 1000VA to power everything.

Edit: Sorry, the information I have posted is with a TX 47 and you asked about a TX 42.

yeah i'm using a 1200VA on mine (w/ receiver, dvd player & tivo plugged in). works fine so far

Xcalibur_255

06-07-07, 05:23 PM

MY TX-47 JUST DIED !!!

I was watching it just fine about 2 hours ago.

Now when I turn it on, the Westinghouse logo appears (white on a black screen) and then it goes away and I am left with a black screen. The front light stays at amber for standby mode. The remote is non-responsive and the only button that works on the set is the power button. Pressing it repeats the whole process over again.

I've unplugged the set and taken out all the connections - same result. I've also tried a different power supply.

I've got it unplugged now and am about to call Westinghouse. Since the set is receiving power and displaying the boot up, I am hoping there is some sort of reset I can do. If not, I have to haul this beast back to BB.

I am not impressed :mad:
Wow. That stinks my friend. You were happiest with yours out of everybody. Sounds like the unit lost it's operating firmware. The flash memory that stores it either failed or succumbed to a brief power surge would be my best guess. The thing with Westinghouse is that their frontline tech support is really pretty bad. They just throw answers out there in hopes of getting you to hang up. Politely demand they connect you with a supervisor or an engineer. They'll tell you they can't and it's completely untrue. You are entitled to speak with them. Find out from somebody with some authority if they can send you a USB stick (or at least offer the file to you via email) containing the unit's firmware. They put that port on the set for exactly this kind of reason.

The LVM series went through months of growing pains and us consumers had to find their design mistakes for them. I'm beginning to feel they haven't learned their lesson. If this rings true then I'll pack up my money and bring it over to Samsung personally.

flabioh

06-07-07, 05:46 PM

Wow. That stinks my friend. You were happiest with yours out of everybody. Sounds like the unit lost it's operating firmware. The flash memory that stores it either failed or succumbed to a brief power surge would be my best guess. The thing with Westinghouse is that their frontline tech support is really pretty bad. They just throw answers out there in hopes of getting you to hang up. Politely demand they connect you with a supervisor or an engineer. They'll tell you they can't and it's completely untrue. You are entitled to speak with them. Find out from somebody with some authority if they can send you a USB stick (or at least offer the file to you via email) containing the unit's firmware. They put that port on the set for exactly this kind of reason.

The LVM series went through months of growing pains and us consumers had to find their design mistakes for them. I'm beginning to feel they haven't learned their lesson. If this rings true then I'll pack up my money and bring it over to Samsung personally.

I don't want to be pessimistic but do you think it is possible that putting your USB stick in without a firmware file on it wiped out the firmware and then the next time you turned off the power and turned it back on again the "new" blank firmware took effect and hosed it? I'm not saying this is what happened, but could it be possible? Or did you turn off your set after messing around with the USB port? Just trying to find out what might have caused this...

huggybear

06-07-07, 07:00 PM

Well, I've gotten pretty good at hauling the TX-47 around in my Civic - it's already back at Best Buy. The good news is that they refunded my money and let me rebuy the set, this time at MSRP minus 12% with the Father's Day coupon!! So at least going through the trouble of returning it will end up saving me some cash.

The bad news of course is that this was a real bummer and once again I am without a TV - they had to order me one and it won't be in until the 12th. At least the wait isn't too bad.

I have to admit after she went belly up I briefly looked at some of the other forums thinking about switching to a Sammy or a Mits. But the Sammy LNT forum seems to be plagued with problem reports (including a PS3 handshake issue that Samsung itself acknowledges) and the comparable Mits just costs too much more...

So I decided to give Westy 1 more try - there simply isn't anything else out there that comes close to giving the same bang for your buck! The 12% off MSRP is the sweetest deal out there!

I pray I just got a lemon as it certainly wasn't anything on my end -

It couldn't have been a power surge - I had it hooked up to a good power strip with a surge protector which itself is plugged into a UPS with surge protector. Also, I haven't experienced any in this house before.

It couldn't have been my experiment with the USB stick because it worked fine after that (after numerous power cycles).

I was using it just fine this morning... I powered it off with the remote control and a few hours later when I turned it on, it went through the boot up screen but never came out of standby (no blue light, just amber).

After trying a couple of times, I noticed that after the logo display the set would make a noise when the screen went to black, a pfft noise like the power is being cut or something....then if you pull out the power cord, the screen would show all blue before turning off.

I dunno - I pray nobody else reports this because then Westy's quality control would come into question. When I pick up my new one, I will be torture testing the hell out of it for 30 days so I can bring it back to BB if something goes wrong again... it would be an absolute nightmare mailing this thing in to Westy and then waiting for it to be mailed back!

flabioh

06-07-07, 07:06 PM

huggybear

06-07-07, 07:11 PM

Wow. That stinks my friend. You were happiest with yours out of everybody. Sounds like the unit lost it's operating firmware. The flash memory that stores it either failed or succumbed to a brief power surge would be my best guess. The thing with Westinghouse is that their frontline tech support is really pretty bad. They just throw answers out there in hopes of getting you to hang up. Politely demand they connect you with a supervisor or an engineer. They'll tell you they can't and it's completely untrue. You are entitled to speak with them. Find out from somebody with some authority if they can send you a USB stick (or at least offer the file to you via email) containing the unit's firmware. They put that port on the set for exactly this kind of reason.

Trying to reflash the firmware would have been a great idea. I asked the CSR if I could try entering the service menu but he said he didn't have any info on that as the set is so new. He said I was the first person he spoke to about the TX series.

He was quick to tell me to bring it back to BB. Makes me wonder how long it will be before anyone is updating their TXs with newer firmware. Never could certainly be a possibility.

I did try the LVM service menu code btw (hold down volume and input while pressing the power button)... no go (logo didn't blink)... can't say if it was because the code has changed, or because my set was pooched.

Xcalibur_255

06-07-07, 07:30 PM

I think they told you to take it back so fast specifically because it's Best Buy. They have some sort of arrangement with them. I've got a hunch this isn't the last time somebody will report this. Worst case the infamous power lockup bug lives again. New chipset, new chance to get it wrong afterall.

*deepbreath* Yeah, I'm just irritated that the end to my wait still is not in sight. I often find myself amazed that I can look all the way up the price ladder and not find a tv that gets enough things right that I'd be willing to buy it. These Westy sets pretty much come the closest when bang for the buck is taken into consideration, save the discovery about the lack of discrete picture memory.

thepsychochiapet

06-07-07, 08:46 PM

elenaran

06-07-07, 10:08 PM

I just hope the red/pink issue isn't as bad of a problem as its been made out to be.

I have the TX47, and while I obviously don't have a LVM47 to directly compare to, the reds on my set look very good - not pink or washed out at all.

flabioh

06-07-07, 10:54 PM

GAH! BB is making it so difficult to buy this tv. I spent the better part of an hour taking with a customer service rep trying to find a local store (I live in St. Louis) that carries the 42 in., and she couldn't find one within 500 miles. Not even one. I wonder what in hell BB management is thinking when it comes to marketing this set. I finally got it ordered, and still well below the msrp even with tax with the 12% off coupon, but I have an estimated pickup date of July 4. I just hope the red/pink issue isn't as bad of a problem as its been made out to be.

Welcome to my world. I ordered mine last month and it isn't showing up for another two weeks...

Maybe it has something to do with supply. Seriously if they made more of these 42" at the price that you and I paid they would be flying off the shelf. Hands down, this currently is the best deal on a 42" 1080p HDTV. Yet, I torture myself everyday reading this thread until I can enjoy it myself.

jwdsail

06-07-07, 11:23 PM

I was under the impression that Westy offered in-home service for any set over 46"... How can they be telling you to transport it or ship it or anything? :mad:

Makes me very concerned as that was one of my reasons to go to 47" rather than 42...

jwd

rockytong

06-07-07, 11:54 PM

Trav2003

06-08-07, 12:30 AM

MASThomas

06-08-07, 01:41 AM

TX42's are now showing in stock and are in all stores here in Calgary. :) (This all changed since noon MDST). I did a side-by-side comparison to the older model and liked what I saw. :D

I am just waiting for the TX47's to appear. FYI, the older 42's are being discounted about 30%.

Sadly, we are still being ripped off here in Canada on the exchange rate on the MSRP. :( :mad:

jtgamble

06-08-07, 02:55 AM

Just a little info for anybody in Seattle. BB has the 42" in stock but not the 47", and apparently there are no plans to carry the 47" either :( I'm gonna head over and see if they have them on display or just in back. I'd really like to see one before buying.

GAH! BB is making it so difficult to buy this tv. I spent the better part of an hour taking with a customer service rep trying to find a local store (I live in St. Louis) that carries the 42 in., and she couldn't find one within 500 miles. Not even one. I wonder what in hell BB management is thinking when it comes to marketing this set. I finally got it ordered, and still well below the msrp even with tax with the 12% off coupon, but I have an estimated pickup date of July 4. I just hope the red/pink issue isn't as bad of a problem as its been made out to be.

Are the 12% off coupons still good? I thought they expired May 28th.

BENZONATE

06-08-07, 03:14 AM

Back to BB I go to whittle this set down some more... MSRP - 12% is such a sweet deal. Hopefully the TX-52 is on sale by Thanksgiving and a similar coupon is floating around.

Just a heads up...FOR THOSE WITHOUT A BB 12% COUPON..

...$200.00 UNDER MSRP as a BB standard "everyday, but not advertised" price quote..

That was quoted to me a few days ago, by the BB blue shirt in the Magnolia Department(Video Department). He looked at the computer for a few seconds, and then rattled off the quote, without the need to ask anyone else. This was not a manager, but may have been the Video Department Manager in the Magnolia department.
This came as a surprise to me and he mentioned this offer is good anytime and gave me his card. This came across as a standard quote and not a special "deal". Very nice, well informed and very helpful...but I was needing a third LVM-47w1. I'll keep him in mind if I cannot pick up another 47w1, or when the 52" arrives.

This may be helpful in your search for the TX line...I'm still searching..hunting..another 47w1

Side note:

The inventory on the BB computers seem up to date and the 47w1 are extremely difficult to locate.

~b3nz0n8

BENZONATE

06-08-07, 03:42 AM

I have the TX47, and while I obviously don't have a LVM47 to directly compare to, the reds on my set look very good - not pink or washed out at all.

I compared the LVM-47w1 with the TX-47F430s, side by side. Photo links are located below in my sig.

Even if you have a reference(LVM-47w1) next to your TX47, you will still be very happy with the image quality and color depth of the TX line. Really..it is a very good HDTV/PC Monitor.

The Red/Pink washout only occurs on the LVM-47w1 and at extreme viewing angles.

The TX has superior extreme viewing angle capabilities, while holding image contrast & detail.

The LVM-47w1 has deeper Red/Crimson/Blue....but again, without a reference for comparison...the TX does very well in most aspects.

You will be happy with the image quality....as for issues that arise....that is a story that is unfolding.

(LVM-47w1...Seriously...If you can make the sacrifices between the two panels(i.e. TX series: integrated Tuner, User Calibration, etc vs. LVM series: individual preset memory, deeper red/crimson/blue color depth, etc) find one today and test drive it for the next 30 days....if you are able to locate one at your local BB)

~b3nz0n8