so if i have a ps3 and a xa2, do people feel like the 42, or 47 is a good product solution? i really like the westy, but i don't want to have hdmi issues. i'm loathe to look at more expensive sets, like sony or toshiba, but i will if there are issues like this that don't seem to be resolvable, like with the last gen.

Dont be surprised, but big name sets have HDMI probs as well, just check out the Samsung thread.

Other than seeing a quick flash before my tv switches to 1080p on my ps3 for a second when HDMI is syncing (which is completely understandable and not a big deal) I have had no HDMI probs at all.

I believe this is due to the cable box itself and the signal being sent. I am using HDMI on my Motorola box and on my sd channels there is a garbled white line on top, and on NBCHD there is a white line down the side. This is not limited to just Westinghouse tvs, this happens on many 1080p 1:1 pixel mapping tvs I've seen. I believe the signal being sent isnt being made to fill the entire screen. I saw something about this once in these forums, i'll have to search again.

I never saw this previously because my old tv overscanned everything. Switching deinterlace off or using fill/overscan mode usually fixes it.

I get the same white lines of "data" at the top of my screen from my cable box (TWC SA8300HD DVR) when viewing an HD channel that is displaying SD content, like a commercial. I am being told by an AV friend of mine that I am seeing the closed captioning data. Sometimes a little bit of overscan is a good thing, like in the CRT tube TV's. :)

Best buy has a new price listed on their site now.

My 12% coupon doesn't feel so so special anymore. :(

Dont be surprised, but big name sets have HDMI probs as well, just check out the Samsung thread.

Other than seeing a quick flash before my tv switches to 1080p on my ps3 for a second when HDMI is syncing (which is completely understandable and not a big deal) I have had no HDMI probs at all.

great, i'm glad to hear that. yeah, i have a 360 elite, ps3 60 gig, and an xa2, and a hdmi cable box, so i'm in need of good hdmi functionality. :)

thanks for the feedback!

Charlie97L, I am running an Elite and an HD-XA20. Originally I had the A20 hooked directly into the Westinghouse. When I encountered a problem where it seems to completely lose sync (I had to turn off everything to restore it) I moved everything to go through my Yamaha 6090 receiver and since then have had zero sync issues. The Elite never had a problem when hooked directly in.

My 12% coupon doesn't feel so so special anymore. :(

The new price is a sale price... the 12% off coupon can only be used on a regular price... I compared what I ended up paying with the 12% off to the new sale price and the coupon is still cheaper (by about fifteen bucks).

Dont be surprised, but big name sets have HDMI probs as well, just check out the Samsung thread.

Other than seeing a quick flash before my tv switches to 1080p on my ps3 for a second when HDMI is syncing (which is completely understandable and not a big deal) I have had no HDMI probs at all.

I'm in the same boat - no problems during playback - just some flashing during the initial loading, FBI screens, etc. (when the resolution changes).

Charlie97L, I am running an Elite and an HD-XA20. Originally I had the A20 hooked directly into the Westinghouse. When I encountered a problem where it seems to completely lose sync (I had to turn off everything to restore it) I moved everything to go through my Yamaha 6090 receiver and since then have had zero sync issues. The Elite never had a problem when hooked directly in.

So I guess it's an issue with the Westy and the PS3 timings. What's new.. Man, HDMI is the crappiest interface yet, I understand now why so many people despise it. The HDCP causes tons of issues. I'll definetly be going back to pick up the extended warranty for this set, so at least if firmware udpates come out later on I can be sure they can get done..

Did Westinghouse ever make it out to install firmware udpates to people's homes for the LVM models? Hopefully the new firmware can be user-installable, but I'm curious to see if they made a good attempt at updating customers' firmware..

I'm in the same boat - no problems during playback - just some flashing during the initial loading, FBI screens, etc. (when the resolution changes).

Interesting, so you've NEVER had the signal drop out completely when watching a movie or even quick flashes w/ the HDMI inputs?

Another question came to mind.. are any engineers familiar if the HDCP response from the Westy might be "adjustable"? My guess is that it's most likely written on a chip, so I'm afraid it may not be "fixable." It sure would be nice if the response time was adjustable so perhaps the response could be given a round trip time of 10ms vs. 5 ms, or something like that..

I just picked up a TX-47F430S today. So far I'm happy with everything I've tried, except for the purple line (that others have mentioned) at the bottom when using 1080i component input from my Comcast box. As reported, the line goes away when deinterlace is turned off in the user calibration settings.

I was wondering if anyone knew exactly what the effect of having this setting on or off really does when displaying 1080i input? I haven't been able to determine any difference in PQ either way. The only change seems to be that the image shifts down, hiding the purple line. Any ideas?
More than likely it cripples the video processor by forcing it to stay in video mode all the time. You lose your 3:2 pulldown correction (film mode), assuming the set can properly deinterlace 1080i in the first place. The purple line is one of several bugs, but it's not worth turning off film mode to get rid of it, trust me.

Booourns, the HDMIs ar eon a hub, so no new firmware will give independent settings.

"Thank you for your inquiry.

Unfortunately the HDMI inputs are on a hub, and the only settings they
have differerent is that HDMI1 has the option for analog audio instead
of digital.

If you have any further questions, you may contact us through email, or
by calling us toll-free at 1-866-287-5555, between 9am and 9pm Eastern
Standard Time, Monday through Saturday. One of our technicians will
assist you.

Westinghouse Digital Support Staff"
Well at least that is officially confirmed right from the horse's mouth now. It was probably a significant cost reduction for them (and us), but I don't think it was worth losing discrete video memory.

Interesting, so you've NEVER had the signal drop out completely when watching a movie or even quick flashes w/ the HDMI inputs?

Another question came to mind.. are any engineers familiar if the HDCP response from the Westy might be "adjustable"? My guess is that it's most likely written on a chip, so I'm afraid it may not be "fixable." It sure would be nice if the response time was adjustable so perhaps the response could be given a round trip time of 10ms vs. 5 ms, or something like that..

I've never had the signal drop out yet at all luckily, and I've watched a few movies. Im connected via HDMI directly to the TV running optical to my receiver from the PS3. Are you running sound via HDMI too? Maybe that has something to do with it? When PS3 updated to firmware 1.8, i saw it helped resolve some issues with the old westy models. Maybe a westy firmware upgrade or ps3 upgrade might resolve your issue in the near future?

The usb service port was a main selling point for me, because you know that even if the port isnt "user serviceable", someone on this forum will figure out a way to make it so, and dump the new firmwares for us :)

I've never had the signal drop out yet at all luckily, and I've watched a few movies. Im connected via HDMI directly to the TV running optical to my receiver from the PS3. Are you running sound via HDMI too? Maybe that has something to do with it? When PS3 updated to firmware 1.8, i saw it helped resolve some issues with the old westy models. Maybe a westy firmware upgrade or ps3 upgrade might resolve your issue in the near future?

The usb service port was a main selling point for me, because you know that even if the port isnt "user serviceable", someone on this forum will figure out a way to make it so, and dump the new firmwares for us :)

Hmm.. I'm passing sound via optical as well, so my setup sounds identical to yours.. Could you do me a favor.. when you get a chance, could you go through the settings you have on your PS3 and post them later on? That would be very much appreciated.

There are some small things like the setting for sound via HDMI (I'm guessing it sends sound through the hdmi connection, regardless of whether the tv is outputting sound), that maybe are different on my ps3 and others that are causing these sync issues. I think I have hdmi set to bitstream, I'll check tonight and post up all my settings.

I hope you're right and someone gets their hands on the firmware and we can update it ourselves... even if Westy doesn't "allow" it. :p

Booourns, the HDMIs ar eon a hub, so no new firmware will give independent settings.

"Thank you for your inquiry.

Unfortunately the HDMI inputs are on a hub, and the only settings they
have differerent is that HDMI1 has the option for analog audio instead
of digital.

If you have any further questions, you may contact us through email, or
by calling us toll-free at 1-866-287-5555, between 9am and 9pm Eastern
Standard Time, Monday through Saturday. One of our technicians will
assist you.

Westinghouse Digital Support Staff"

Thanks for confirming what some of use had originally speculated that the HDMI ports are on a hub. If I were in the market for this set, I would have happily paid the extra premium for the added convenience of discrete video memory.

I'm hoping the 52" model would remedy this as well as other minor problems with the TX series.

I've never had the signal drop out yet at all luckily, and I've watched a few movies. Im connected via HDMI directly to the TV running optical to my receiver from the PS3. Are you running sound via HDMI too? Maybe that has something to do with it? When PS3 updated to firmware 1.8, i saw it helped resolve some issues with the old westy models. Maybe a westy firmware upgrade or ps3 upgrade might resolve your issue in the near future?

Like Mikeoz, I am also running my audio over the digital optical out so I don't think it's that. I've actually have screen blackouts in the PS3 menu system as well as Bluray movies. I haven't really used it since the PS3 1.81 update though. If I get a chance tonight, I'll see if it's still happening. This is frustrating because I returned my LVM-42w2 due to 1080p issues with the PS3 (as well as lockup issues).

So, having read, and almost ready to go ahead with the TX 42, do these TV's not have what you would call a traditional "Wide" mode for 4:3 programming? A mode that just stretches the images to get rid of the black bars on either side? That's horrible! Say it ain't so!

Hmm.. I'm passing sound via optical as well, so my setup sounds identical to yours.. Could you do me a favor.. when you get a chance, could you go through the settings you have on your PS3 and post them later on? That would be very much appreciated.


I wont be home till late, but here is what i know

* BD / DVD Settings

* Cinema Conversion - Automatic
* DVD Wide Display
* DVD Upscaler - Normal
* BD / DVD Video Output Format (HDMI) - Automatic (this may be of interest)
* BD 1080p 24 Hz Output (HDMI) - Automatic (this too)
* BD / DVD Audio Output Format (HDMI) - Bitstream
* BD Audio Output Format (Optical Digital) - Bitstream

* Display Settings

* Video Output Settings - HDMI all res
* Screensaver 5 min?
* Cross Color Reduction Filter - off
* RGB Full Range (HDMI) - Full (limited is probably better)
* Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr Super-White (HDMI) - on (probably pointless, i think this is for HDMI 1.3 deep color material)

Audio Output optical with DD5.1,DTS, and both linears checked

So, having read, and almost ready to go ahead with the TX 42, do these TV's not have what you would call a traditional "Wide" mode for 4:3 programming? A mode that just stretches the images to get rid of the black bars on either side? That's horrible! Say it ain't so!

Fill and overscan mode are basically "wide mode", it does do it. Fill stretches the pic, while overscan stretchs the pic and keeps the aspect ratio, cutting away some of the pic.

Fill and overscan mode are basically "wide mode", it does do it. Fill stretches the pic, while overscan stretchs the pic and keeps the aspect ratio, cutting away some of the pic.

Overscan cuts away a *lot* of the picture, too much IMO.

Ed

I went into BB to look at the 47 and they actually had one on display. Picture was phenominal. It was below a Sharpie with a sticker at 2500 and looked as good. Its always hard to tell for sure in a showroom but I am sold.

I noticed however that the picture was almost a second ahead of all the others. I asked the sales guy if it was on a different feed and he said "No. It just seems to process the signal faster." I walked around for a while then came back and it was back to changing at the same time as all the others. I just thought this was interesting.

Also, I have been looking around ALOT for this TV. There is some internet pricing that is far below the BB price.

I asked the sales guy their policy on matching the web and he said as long as they can verify it they can match it. So, I walked him through where to find the site and he showed and manager and then offered to match the price with shipping costs. So I got the set at 250 below MSRP.

Do a search on pricegrabber or google products for the model number. The 42 also comes up several times with its model number. Then use the site you link to to calculate their shipping fees and go to BB armed with the numbers and they should match it. Should be about the best price you can get without waiting several months for the price to drop (as it always does after a new model comes out).

Like Mikeoz, I am also running my audio over the digital optical out so I don't think it's that. I've actually have screen blackouts in the PS3 menu system as well as Bluray movies. I haven't really used it since the PS3 1.81 update though. If I get a chance tonight, I'll see if it's still happening. This is frustrating because I returned my LVM-42w2 due to 1080p issues with the PS3 (as well as lockup issues).

You and I have a similar story, haha.

I tried those settings from bhazard, now I just need to test some media. This won't solve my problems with my Tivo though...

EDIT: I let Casino Royale BR play while I've been on the internet. I probably missed some flickers, but I know for sure that it has lost signal at least once so far, and I'm not even half way through the movie.

Charlie97L, I am running an Elite and an HD-XA20. Originally I had the A20 hooked directly into the Westinghouse. When I encountered a problem where it seems to completely lose sync (I had to turn off everything to restore it) I moved everything to go through my Yamaha 6090 receiver and since then have had zero sync issues. The Elite never had a problem when hooked directly in.

I might just go ahead and purchase an HDMI receiver like the Yamaha v661 to solve this problem. There isn't really any other major problem for me with the TX besides the HDMI issue, and I need a new receiver anyway.

Interesting, so you've NEVER had the signal drop out completely when watching a movie or even quick flashes w/ the HDMI inputs?

Never during the movie, but flickernig and blackouts do happen at the beginning. With the Talladega Nights bluray, I popped it in and when it started playing the screen went black for a minute or two... then the picture popped on right when the movie was starting.

I understand why it would happen at the beginning of a disc with all the resolution and audio changes between the previews, warnings, etc. but not why it would happen during playback. Do you have autosource on and other devices hooked up? How's the quality of the hdmi cable? I'm just trying to think of things that would cause the TX to believe it lost the signal.

Never during the movie, but flickernig and blackouts do happen at the beginning. With the Talladega Nights bluray, I popped it in and when it started playing the screen went black for a minute or two... then the picture popped on right when the movie was starting.

I understand why it would happen at the beginning of a disc with all the resolution and audio changes between the previews, warnings, etc. but not why it would happen during playback. Do you have autosource on and other devices hooked up? How's the quality of the hdmi cable? I'm just trying to think of things that would cause the TX to believe it lost the signal.

I turned off autosource, and my HDMI cable is from monoprice. The HDMI cable for the Tivo came with it.

I've tried using the PS3 without the Tivo plugged in, but that doesn't seem to help.

I understand why it would happen at the beginning of a disc with all the resolution and audio changes between the previews, warnings, etc. but not why it would happen during playback. Do you have autosource on and other devices hooked up? How's the quality of the hdmi cable? I'm just trying to think of things that would cause the TX to believe it lost the signal.


I did have autosource on, but turned it off since it kept changing inputs when turning on my tv, receiver, etc. :p I have monoprice hdmi cables, and I've noticed no issues w/ them on other sets. I'll try swapping the cable and ps3 hdmi cables to see if that makes a difference, but I highly doubt it's the cable. Ya, I'm not sure what the cause could be either.. Right now it definetly looks like it's an HDMI issue to me..

One thing I thought of.. does the hdmi output on the ps3 output hdmi during video game playback? I imagine it wouldn't, but u never know.. I rented madden '07 (the absolute worst game I've ever played) for a couple days and experienced flickering during playing the game.. so you would think that HDCP may not be the culprit..?

I hope someone can help me. I don't quite understand the audio issues where this set is having trouble putting out 5.1 surround. If I am using a HD DVR from Cox and running an HDMI cable from the box to the TV will I get 5.1 surround?

I hope someone can help me. I don't quite understand the audio issues where this set is having trouble putting out 5.1 surround. If I am using a HD DVR from Cox and running an HDMI cable from the box to the TV will I get 5.1 surround?

I suspect you won't. The TV has stereo speakers so is telling the upstream HDMI device that it wants the 2.0 stereo mix. If you want 5.1 sound from your HD DVR you should run an optical digital cable from the HD DVR to your AV receiver.

I suspect you won't. The TV has stereo speakers so is telling the upstream HDMI device that it wants the 2.0 stereo mix. If you want 5.1 sound from your HD DVR you should run an optical digital cable from the HD DVR to your AV receiver.

Thanks for the quick reply. Just to clarify (I'm new to all of this), Can I still run the HDMI from the TV to the Box for the video and then run the optical cable from the box to the receiver to get the 5.1 surround?

Thanks for the quick reply. Just to clarify (I'm new to all of this), Can I still run the HDMI from the TV to the Box for the video and then run the optical cable from the box to the receiver to get the 5.1 surround?

Yes you can.

Thanks for the quick reply. Just to clarify (I'm new to all of this), Can I still run the HDMI from the TV to the Box for the video and then run the optical cable from the box to the receiver to get the 5.1 surround?

I would actually recommend doing it this way.

However, others have confirmed that they can run one HDMI cable to the TX and then output 5.1 through the optical out of the TV as long as they specify a PCM audio stream on the source.

I hope someone can help me. I don't quite understand the audio issues where this set is having trouble putting out 5.1 surround. If I am using a HD DVR from Cox and running an HDMI cable from the box to the TV will I get 5.1 surround?

This really depends on the DVR. I am able to use just the hdmi from my PS3 and pass 5.1 audio through the optical output on the TX. I was able to do this by manually specifying 5.1 audio via hdmi from the PS3 audio menu (the default was just 2 channel stereo). I don't believe anyone has gotten this to work with anything other than a PS3 (since most devices don't have such an extensive audio menu).

You need to really dig through the DVR's menus and look for audio options for hdmi. The default setting would undoubtedly be just 2 channels.

I did have autosource on, but turned it off since it kept changing inputs when turning on my tv, receiver, etc. :p I have monoprice hdmi cables, and I've noticed no issues w/ them on other sets. I'll try swapping the cable and ps3 hdmi cables to see if that makes a difference, but I highly doubt it's the cable. Ya, I'm not sure what the cause could be either.. Right now it definetly looks like it's an HDMI issue to me..

One thing I thought of.. does the hdmi output on the ps3 output hdmi during video game playback? I imagine it wouldn't, but u never know.. I rented madden '07 (the absolute worst game I've ever played) for a couple days and experienced flickering during playing the game.. so you would think that HDCP may not be the culprit..?

Try a 1080p game like Tekken and see if it does. Interesting about the cables though, both people having probs are using monoprice. I'm using cheap $2 DVI GEAR cables from amazon w no probs, and my monoprice ones arrived today. Ill try a blu-ray with them to see if it has any probs.

Since I've got a week left on my BB 30 day return window, I called Westinghouse customer service today to tell them about my lockups going into PC mode (post 561 and 595). First I've got to give them credit for

a. answering on about the third ring
b. having a pleasant, lucid woman take the call who listened to and understood the problem (and not recite a troubleshooting flowchart)
c. asking tech support immediately, who came up with some suggestions

They wanted me to try to cycle through the inputs using the remote input button (between the volume and channel selectors) instead of the buttons across the bottom; do a reset through SETTINGS>FACTORY RESET menu; and the ever popular unplug for a few minutes.

No luck using the different input methods (including the panel side buttons) or unplugging the set. I noticed though while playing in the PC settings menu, that it also locked up going to USER CALIBRATION and changing the 3D COMB FILTER to off. After a power reset, I went back in the menu and did a RESET in the CALIBRATION MODE menu only. This not only fixed the lockup while playing in that menu, but also the original lockup going into PC mode! :D It has been in this state now for over a week through lots of use, including a few power failures, and this is the only thing that has effected it. This only happened an hour or so ago, but so far, so good. As far as I remember, I did play in the VIDEO>MODE>USER menu when I first hooked it up, but not the SETTINGS>USER CAL menu at all. Those having similar problems should give it a try.

I've got a few other issues I want to look into. I've only watched two full HD movies (Blu-Ray on PS3/ 1.8), and once on each the image froze until I played with the PS3 remote (NEXT/ PREVIOUS chapter for instance) to get it unstuck. It never went black or lost sync, but would just freeze up. I also just got a set of HQV Benchmark disks I'll run through and post the results when I get a chance.

Just in case anyone in the Atlanta area was wondering, I went to the Perimeter Mall BB and their system was down. Undaunted but annoyed, I drove up to the BB on Pleasant Hill... They guy told me that the only BBs that carried them were in Athens and Macon, GA. :

shortdali;

I know it's probably too late, but FYI I bought mine from the BB at Cumberland and they still have one on display, so they may also have stock. The first weekend, they told me that only Cumberland and Douglasville had them them.

TF50

2. I can pick up On-Demand channels from Cox cable through the QAM tuner... I easily found about 9-11 movies going on in the upper channels. I think this is users in the neighborhood, as I could literally "SEE" them fast forwarding, picking menu options etc. Pirates was on, Batman was on, Flinstones was on, some Kid's cartoon, some Brad Pitt Angelina Jolie movie, the list went on and on... oh yeah, Star Wars episode 3, it was crazy... also music video on demand channels I could see users switching back, forward, looking up by artist name, etc.


I got the exact same thing. Some on-demand channels where I could see people fast-forwarding and pausing. Seemed like it was mostly HBO On Demand tv shows people were watching.

shortdali;

I know it's probably too late, but FYI I bought mine from the BB at Cumberland and they still have one on display, so they may also have stock. The first weekend, they told me that only Cumberland and Douglasville had them them.

TF50


Really?? Damn BB sales guy lied to me then. But as you said, it's already too late. Thanks for the info tho Technofan, it's great to see another Atlantan on the boards. I can't wait until Friday for my in-store pickup :D !! One question for all of you guys...What kind of car did you pick up your TX47 in? I have a Civic coupe , and am planning to use my brothers Honda CR-V. Would this fit in the back with the seats folded down?

Overscan cuts away a *lot* of the picture, too much IMO.

Ed

I've found that overscan is perfect for zooming 16x9 content that has been displayed in 4x3. In other words, improperly formatted DVDs or widescreen movies on standard definition cable, etc. If it has letterboxing from the source and pillarboxing from the TV, try overscan.

This really depends on the DVR. I am able to use just the hdmi from my PS3 and pass 5.1 audio through the optical output on the TX. I was able to do this by manually specifying 5.1 audio via hdmi from the PS3 audio menu (the default was just 2 channel stereo). I don't believe anyone has gotten this to work with anything other than a PS3 (since most devices don't have such an extensive audio menu).

You need to really dig through the DVR's menus and look for audio options for hdmi. The default setting would undoubtedly be just 2 channels.

I had my SA8300HD DVR set to output DD via HDMI and it will not pass through the SPDIF connector on the TX 47. I only get 2 channel out from that connector. I am thinking the reason you're able to get it on the PS3 is because you're using a DD format that the TV/HDMI can't understand. When I had my Samsung upconvert player and selected what it called Bitstream audio (vs PCM) it did pass the DD5.1 out the SPDIF, but I always initiallly got a message displayed from the DVD player that "HDMI audio not supported".

I had to connect a separate optical cable from my DVR to my receiver and tell the DVR to send the audio out the optical connector to get DD5.1 to my receiver. This is just frustrating to me because I originally thought I could let the TV be my A/V switcher... before I really started to experience some of the negatives of HDMI.

Is the TX-47F430S available at Costco? Has anyone ever purchased this model there? The Costco return policy is a real plus in my eyes.

Thanks,
jawgee

This might be helpful for people with Motorola 6412 boxes which have HDMI outputs (earlier ones have DVI). Up until yesterday I had been unable to get anything other than 2 channel stereo out of the tv when sending audio through the hdmi inputs, either for my cable box or dvd player.

However, last night I was able to alter the HDMI audio ouput settings on my Motorola 6412 STB by going into its Setup/Service menu (just press menu and select with the power off). I then went into the "additional HDMI options" box and forced it to pass through 5.1 sound as opposed to the "auto" mode. Once I did that, cable programs with Dolby Digital tracks passed the audio through the HDMI, into the TX-47, and back out into my receiver via the optical port as 5.1 Dolby Digital.

This might be helpful for people with Motorola 6412 boxes which have HDMI outputs (earlier ones have DVI). Up until yesterday I had been unable to get anything other than 2 channel stereo out of the tv when sending audio through the hdmi inputs, either for my cable box or dvd player.

However, last night I was able to alter the HDMI audio ouput settings on my Motorola 6412 STB by going into its Setup/Service menu (just press menu and select with the power off). I then went into the "additional HDMI options" box and forced it to pass through 5.1 sound as opposed to the "auto" mode. Once I did that, cable programs with Dolby Digital tracks passed the audio through the HDMI, into the TX-47, and back out into my receiver via the optical port as 5.1 Dolby Digital.

This is very helpful. I can now run one optical cable for PS3 and my cable box. Thanks!!

This might be helpful for people with Motorola 6412 boxes which have HDMI outputs (earlier ones have DVI). Up until yesterday I had been unable to get anything other than 2 channel stereo out of the tv when sending audio through the hdmi inputs, either for my cable box or dvd player.

However, last night I was able to alter the HDMI audio ouput settings on my Motorola 6412 STB by going into its Setup/Service menu (just press menu and select with the power off). I then went into the "additional HDMI options" box and forced it to pass through 5.1 sound as opposed to the "auto" mode. Once I did that, cable programs with Dolby Digital tracks passed the audio through the HDMI, into the TX-47, and back out into my receiver via the optical port as 5.1 Dolby Digital.

If anybody can get this to work on the Time Warner SA8300HD DVR, I'd sure appreciate hearing about it. I've selected it's option to pass DD out HDMI and it still only give me 2-channel audio out the TV's SPDIF connection. If I had a audio receiver with HDMI then I guess I could test to see if it's actually doing that, but I don't.

I got the exact same thing. Some on-demand channels where I could see people fast-forwarding and pausing. Seemed like it was mostly HBO On Demand tv shows people were watching.

Supposedly a lot of cable companies send out video on demands unencrypted so you can pick them up via the QAM tuner.

This might be helpful for people with Motorola 6412 boxes which have HDMI outputs (earlier ones have DVI). Up until yesterday I had been unable to get anything other than 2 channel stereo out of the tv when sending audio through the hdmi inputs, either for my cable box or dvd player.

However, last night I was able to alter the HDMI audio ouput settings on my Motorola 6412 STB by going into its Setup/Service menu (just press menu and select with the power off). I then went into the "additional HDMI options" box and forced it to pass through 5.1 sound as opposed to the "auto" mode. Once I did that, cable programs with Dolby Digital tracks passed the audio through the HDMI, into the TX-47, and back out into my receiver via the optical port as 5.1 Dolby Digital.

Sounds familiar - the same thing needs to be done on the PS3... you have to change to manual instead of auto and specify 5.1.

Sounds like most cable boxes have buried this setting in the service menu (as opposed to the PS3 that makes it available in the regular user menu).

A nice find! Anyone who can't get their device to send 5.1 to the TX should see if there is a service or hidden menu they can get into - the option most likely is there somewhere.

I also just got a set of HQV Benchmark disks I'll run through and post the results when I get a chance.
I'll be looking forward to hearing about this! :)

I'll be looking forward to hearing about this! :)

Looking forward to this as well. Would also love to see calibrated settings for the TV based off of DVE or THX optimizer, etc.

Try a 1080p game like Tekken and see if it does. Interesting about the cables though, both people having probs are using monoprice. I'm using cheap $2 DVI GEAR cables from amazon w no probs, and my monoprice ones arrived today. Ill try a blu-ray with them to see if it has any probs.

I'm getting random signal drops on 1080p (Tekken 5) and 720p (Resistance Fall of Man). There have been so many HDMI issues with the PS3 that I really want to believe this is just the PS3's fault but I'm worried since reading Mikeoz is having the same thing happen with is Tivo. HDCP is the worst.

Really?? Damn BB sales guy lied to me then. But as you said, it's already too late. Thanks for the info tho Technofan, it's great to see another Atlantan on the boards. I can't wait until Friday for my in-store pickup :D !! One question for all of you guys...What kind of car did you pick up your TX47 in? I have a Civic coupe , and am planning to use my brothers Honda CR-V. Would this fit in the back with the seats folded down?

Several users in this thread report having picked up the TV in sedans. I picked mine up using my Nissan Xterra and it had plenty of room so your CR-V should do fine.

Looking forward to this as well. Would also love to see calibrated settings for the TV based off of DVE or THX optimizer, etc.

I believe my DVE disc showed up today so if I can manage some time tonight I will post my observations and resulting settings.

I believe my DVE disc showed up today so if I can manage some time tonight I will post my observations and resulting settings.

I'm curious to see the DVE results. I used the THX disc briefly but I found that the default values of 50 were quite accurate (for brightness and contrast anyway). 50 brightness allows me to make out the right number of black boxes in the brightness test and 50 contrast allows me to see a distinction between the white boxes in the contrast test.

I don't see any results from playing with sharpness so I just set mine at 0.

I can't accurately do any of the color tests since I don't have the tinted glasses but again, everything looks damn good to me right at 50.

The best tweak I did was to drastically lower the backlight (thanks to xcalibur_255's suggestion of lowering it and turning the set off until the next day to reset your perception). I can't live with 0 but I have mine down to 30 (from the default 100 retina burn mode!) Blacks are much better and any hint of mura disappears. Having the backlight at 100 amplifies any defects (be it from the TV or the source).

I'm getting random signal drops on 1080p (Tekken 5) and 720p (Resistance Fall of Man). There have been so many HDMI issues with the PS3 that I really want to believe this is just the PS3's fault but I'm worried since reading Mikeoz is having the same thing happen with is Tivo. HDCP is the worst.

There doesn't appear to be any rhyme or reason to the HDMI issues. I reset my PS3 a lot (to get out of Linux mode) and that brings you back to the choose resolution screen. 8 out of 10 times after I tell it to automatically adjust the picture, it works fine and the screen comes back in 1080p. But every now and then I end up with a black screen and have to wait the 30 seconds until the PS3 automatically goes back to 480p mode.

I have yet to experience a dropout during game play or movie watching but there is always a ton of flashing and audio crackling during the initial launch of the disc.

Really?? Damn BB sales guy lied to me then. But as you said, it's already too late. Thanks for the info tho Technofan, it's great to see another Atlantan on the boards. I can't wait until Friday for my in-store pickup :D !! One question for all of you guys...What kind of car did you pick up your TX47 in? I have a Civic coupe , and am planning to use my brothers Honda CR-V. Would this fit in the back with the seats folded down?

I picked min up in a Honda Element, with the back seats folded up. Plenty of room to have the unit standing on its base in the box.

I'm curious to see the DVE results. I used the THX disc briefly but I found that the default values of 50 were quite accurate (for brightness and contrast anyway). 50 brightness allows me to make out the right number of black boxes in the brightness test and 50 contrast allows me to see a distinction between the white boxes in the contrast test.

I don't see any results from playing with sharpness so I just set mine at 0.

I can't accurately do any of the color tests since I don't have the tinted glasses but again, everything looks damn good to me right at 50.

The best tweak I did was to drastically lower the backlight (thanks to xcalibur_255's suggestion of lowering it and turning the set off until the next day to reset your perception). I can't live with 0 but I have mine down to 30 (from the default 100 retina burn mode!) Blacks are much better and any hint of mura disappears. Having the backlight at 100 amplifies any defects (be it from the TV or the source).

That is how mine is right now. I am happy with the picture quality across all video sources but I am wondering if the disc will help me see if something is way off that I cannot perceive normally.

I'm getting random signal drops on 1080p (Tekken 5) and 720p (Resistance Fall of Man). There have been so many HDMI issues with the PS3 that I really want to believe this is just the PS3's fault but I'm worried since reading Mikeoz is having the same thing happen with is Tivo. HDCP is the worst.

Yeah, I have problems with both my PS3 and my Tivo over HDMI. Some cables I ordered from monoprice came today, including the 10ft HDMI cable I needed to reach my PC. So right now I'm using the TX as my monitor and so far so good.

I'll need to test it a lot more to be sure that it doesn't flicker, but I don't really expect it to. It's more than likely an HDCP thing. I plan on doing an exchange in the next few days, and hopefully I'll get a better one.

hey guys, I'm going to best buy tomorrow and I need a 12% coupon. I looked all over the Rewards Zone website to no avail. Does anybody know where these are printed off at? And if there are any available now?

A link would be great...thanks!

This might be helpful for people with Motorola 6412 boxes which have HDMI outputs (earlier ones have DVI). Up until yesterday I had been unable to get anything other than 2 channel stereo out of the tv when sending audio through the hdmi inputs, either for my cable box or dvd player.

However, last night I was able to alter the HDMI audio ouput settings on my Motorola 6412 STB by going into its Setup/Service menu (just press menu and select with the power off). I then went into the "additional HDMI options" box and forced it to pass through 5.1 sound as opposed to the "auto" mode. Once I did that, cable programs with Dolby Digital tracks passed the audio through the HDMI, into the TX-47, and back out into my receiver via the optical port as 5.1 Dolby Digital.

I can confirm this works for 5.1. In the menu, there is also an option for YCC 4:4:4 or RGB color, which one would be best?

Emonroe,

The 10-12% coupon ended on Fathers Day. BB has a what looks to be 10% off on the 47" via their webpage. Plus you get a free upscaling DVD Player (LG) , not too bad.

I pick mine up on Friday, Then I have a nice week of vaca to watch is for hours :-) Gotta love all the great posts with some really good knowledge of the ACTUAL panel and not some rerun of a spec-sheet!!

Enjoy

I'll need to test it a lot more to be sure that it doesn't flicker, but I don't really expect it to. It's more than likely an HDCP thing. I plan on doing an exchange in the next few days, and hopefully I'll get a better one.

Strangely I watched Crank on blu via my ps3 last night and I didn't see one flicker during the movie! :) So, it certainly seems to be a strange issues, and seems to be very intermittent. Hopefully it won't show up too much.

Strangely I watched Crank on blu via my ps3 last night and I didn't see one flicker during the movie! :) So, it certainly seems to be a strange issues, and seems to be very intermittent. Hopefully it won't show up too much.

Even more strange, I tried replacing my cheap HDMI cables from amazon with the monoprice ones and tried optical out from the TV w the ps3 AND IT FLICKERED every minute or so!

I replaced the monoprice cable with the original ones, turned off the ps3, still had optical out from the TV fed by HDMI....... and no flicker. I'd have to say it was the cable, because I have not seen the flicker until I used the monoprice cable.

Even more strange, I tried replacing my cheap HDMI cables from amazon with the monoprice ones and tried optical out from the TV w the ps3 AND IT FLICKERED every minute or so!

I replaced the monoprice cable with the original ones, turned off the ps3, still had optical out from the TV fed by HDMI....... and no flicker. I'd have to say it was the cable, because I have not seen the flicker until I used the monoprice cable.

Geez.... well... I'm not quite sure what to do. Like I said before, I am using a monoprice cable for the PS3 with optical out directly from the PS3 to the receiver. However, the cable I am using for the Tivo is one that came with the S3, not a monoprice one. I get flickering on both units.

I've already scheduled to have the TX exchanged, so I guess I'll just go through with that and see how the new one does. Maybe I'll get less stuck pixels, but I'll be pretty upset if its PQ is worse, haha.

If the new one has flickering, maybe I'll look into different cables. It's odd though that an HDMI cable that seems to be generally regarded as good on this site would be the culprit.

I was wondering if someone could help me out. I have a STB/HD-DVR from Comcast. How is everyone feeding the cable feed into the QAM from the cable box? Do I take the coax TV-OUT from the box and just run it into the TV?

Thanks

I was wondering if someone could help me out. I have a STB/HD-DVR from Comcast. How is everyone feeding the cable feed into the QAM from the cable box? Do I take the coax TV-OUT from the box and just run it into the TV?

Thanks

I'm not sure if TV-OUT would work - it sounds like that is used to carry the video and audio signal as if you were connecting the box to a really old TV without rca inputs even.

Do you just have 2 coax inputs/outputs on the cable box or are there 3? Sometimes there is a pass through coax port (which is different than TV out) - this would pass through the same signal that is being received (when the box is not in use).

The other option is to simply split the coax and have one feed going into the cable box and one directly into the TV. I've read that its best to use a "digital" splitter when splitting for QAM and/or cable modems - these splitters will say 1ghz on them (as opposed to 900mhz I believe on regular ones). Not sure if there is any truth to that or not though.

I've heard people on this board mention that the PQ on the LVM-47w1 is better than the TX-47f430s. Could someone tell how much better, is it just noticeable if you had them side-by-side? I'm currently trying to decide which model to buy.

I've heard people on this board mention that the PQ on the LVM-47w1 is better than the TX-47f430s. Could someone tell how much better, is it just noticeable if you had them side-by-side? I'm currently trying to decide which model to buy.

Look at posts such as this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10643343&&#post10643343
by BENZONATE .

His posts have a lot of information on his comparisons and opinons of the TX and LVM 47" panels.

IMO, if you're going to be watching any SD stuff at all (see: Comedy Central, FoodTV, Cartoon Network, etc), I like the TX better. The LVM is supposedly *slightly* better PQ for HD (but not by leaps and bounds), but the TX is *much* better for SD stuff.

I haven't done any side-by-sides, but my friend has the LVM and it was the first real home theater of a friend I'd been to that had an HDTV - my first comment was "Why do the standard definition channels look so pixellated?"

Look at posts such as this:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10643343&&#post10643343
by BENZONATE .

His posts have a lot of information on his comparisons and opinons of the TX and LVM 47" panels.


IIRC, Benzon8's only real criticism of the TX line was on color, and that was "out-of-the-box" - in other words, for the two units that he had, he felt the LVM had better reds and blues *WITHOUT DOING ANY CALIBRATION OR ADJUSTMENTS*.

I think he preferred the black levels on the TX.

I and others haven't noticed a real problem with color, even at stock settings (well, actually it's weird, I briefly hooked up an old game system to the composite/s-vid input, and it was way off; can't recall, I might have seen the same on component as well - but for HDMI inputs, stock settings seem pretty close).

For me, the better SD quality, black levels, and the (reportedly) much increased viewing angle made the TX a winner; also there haven't been any real reports of "banding" with the TX's; some do exhibit mura at higher backlight levels. ClearQAM is a bonus, I won't use it often, but it's nice to have when I need it.

HTH, YMMV, IANACDDT (I am not a certified display device technician), etc. ;)

Ed

I'm not sure if TV-OUT would work - it sounds like that is used to carry the video and audio signal as if you were connecting the box to a really old TV without rca inputs even.

Do you just have 2 coax inputs/outputs on the cable box or are there 3? Sometimes there is a pass through coax port (which is different than TV out) - this would pass through the same signal that is being received (when the box is not in use).

The other option is to simply split the coax and have one feed going into the cable box and one directly into the TV. I've read that its best to use a "digital" splitter when splitting for QAM and/or cable modems - these splitters will say 1ghz on them (as opposed to 900mhz I believe on regular ones). Not sure if there is any truth to that or not though.

I'm going to be using my Comcast HD-DVR as my main cable source. What else can I get from the QAM tuner if I plug straight into the TV? Are the local/OTA HD channels broadcastvia the QAM. I'm just wondering if I should invest any time into it. Tomorrow is TV day :-)

Thanks

Well, just got my TX-42 home and on the stand. I'm gunna go set it up now, any thoughts on calibrations? Thanks for the help!

I would love to see some calibration tips as well.

-Hake

Alright:

1. These sets crush blacks like I've never seen before. It can be made a little bit better through tinkering...but let's just say I wasn't happy about that. I completely lose one side of my black lingenfelter in Forza 2.

2. Something is up with the HDMI ports. They lag or something. I turn on my 360, let it run, and then the image magically appears on screen. choppy at first and then it catches up. There is a soung problem too, especially in the menu, when I leave the cursor selected on something and then move it the sound is awful and then it rights itself...

3. Clouds and Mura. I'm new to looking for these but there is a distinct cloud on the bottom left hand corner extending all the way across the bottom. And in the upper right hand corner, while on a completely black screen, it appears orange-ish. Is that orange-ish bloom mura?

4. Is it too much to ask to label the buttons on the controller?

What do I do, I feel dirty, my parents had bought me a 32" Insignia set and I returned it for this...crap...The Insignia had a cloud on the upper right hand corner but it was small. This is day 1 of my 30 days with Best Buy, do I call their tech number and have someone come out? Would they deliver a replacement for free? I do not think that this set should be like this...

I'm going to be using my Comcast HD-DVR as my main cable source. What else can I get from the QAM tuner if I plug straight into the TV? Are the local/OTA HD channels broadcastvia the QAM. I'm just wondering if I should invest any time into it. Tomorrow is TV day :-)

Thanks


You will get everything you would get via QAM over your cable box (and a lot more). The difference is, by going through the cable box you are using the cable box's tuner and then outputing the video to the set via hdmi. With QAM, you are using the TX's tuner and therefore eliminating the hdmi connection.

If you plan on watching any SD, I'd highly recommend using the TX's internal tuner - I have seen SD sent from a cable box via hdmi on a few sets and it always looked horrendous. Just think of all the conversion that's going on. I'd take a TV's built-in tuner over a cable box's any day (especially the TX's).

You should try out both and see if you notice a difference. HD will probably look the same but I guarantee SD will be worlds better using the TX's internal tuner.

What do I do, I feel dirty, my parents had bought me a 32" Insignia set and I returned it for this...crap...The Insignia had a cloud on the upper right hand corner but it was small. This is day 1 of my 30 days with Best Buy, do I call their tech number and have someone come out? Would they deliver a replacement for free? I do not think that this set should be like this...

Hmm, well I would tinker with it a bit to see if you can get it looking any better. I assume your backlight is at 100? At 100 backlight I'm sure any TX will show some clouding. I don't know what to make of the orange tint though - that could be a real defect. The clouding I see on mine if I have the backlight way up appears white.

The sound and video problems you describe are common with hdmi when booting up a device - the main thing is to see if there are any problems once it is running.

Try lowering the backlight and then playing with the brightness and the contrast to see if you can get the blacks any better.

Hmm, well I would tinker with it a bit to see if you can get it looking any better. I assume your backlight is at 100? At 100 backlight I'm sure any TX will show some clouding. I don't know what to make of the orange tint though - that could be a real defect. The clouding I see on mine if I have the backlight way up appears white.

The sound and video problems you describe are common with hdmi when booting up a device - the main thing is to see if there are any problems once it is running.

Try lowering the backlight and then playing with the brightness and the contrast to see if you can get the blacks any better.

Is that an HDMI issue? Because I had the Elite hooked up to the Insignia through HDMI and it worked flawlessly. Hooray for budget brand LCD's?

What are your backlight and contrast settings?

Hey guys, I'm gonna try and post a quick review I wrote this afternoon of the TX for the AVS Reviews portion of the site, apologies if it is a bit big.

Review of the Westinghouse TX-47F430S

This is a review of Westinghouse's new TX-47F430S, which was released in the spring of 2007 as part of Westinghouse's new line of 1080p sets, complete with integrated ATSC/QAM tuners.

1. Delivery

My Westinghouse TX-47 was delivered in the afternoon by a couple of friendly Best Buy Geek Squad members, who brought the box into my apartment and unpacked it for me. Unfortunately, when I plugged in my Comcast HD box I discovered a large thumb sized dark spot in the middle of the screen, possibly with damaged pixels behind it. It seemed to me that this was a handling or packing defect, not a manufacturing issue, and a look at the box after they left confirmed this: there was a massive gash in the side of the box where it had been pierced by something. In any case the delivery guys agreed that the damage occurred in shipping, so I'm set for a replacement. For those not using a delivery service, this serves as a reminder to be extremely careful when bringing this set home, as there really is nothing between the screen and the box.

2. Initial impressions

Upon opening the box the first thing that hits you is this set's design. Simply put, the styling of the TX series is a vast improvement over the LVM series. The bezel itself is a semi-matte black with a metallic bottom strip that is a very dark, semi-reflective gray. The pictures available online just don't give any sense for how nice it looks; it's comparable to or better than the style of most of the tier one brands, but without the problems of a reflective bezel. I'm extremely pleased with this, as style was a real weakness of the original Westinghouse LVMs.

3. Setup

I setup my inputs as follows:

HDMI 1: Comcast Motorola HD Box. Cable was a 24 AWG 6 foot HDMI cable with net jacket from Monoprice.
HDMI 2: Sony DVP-CX995 upscaling DVD-400 changer. Cable was a 10 foot 26AWG foot HDMI cable from Monoprice.
HDMI 3: XP Media Center PC with a NVidia 7900GS graphics card (HDCP compatible). Cable was a 25 foot 26AWG HDMI cable from Monoprice with a DVI adapter on the PC end.

Component 1: Nintendo Wii using the new Monoprice 6 foot component cables.
Component 2: Xbox using a 6 foot component cable from my old analog setup.

4. HD Cable Quality

All three of my HDMI sources locked on fine, with nary an HDCP hiccup to be found, and the first input I switched to was my HD cable box. Discovery HD, as expected, was astonishing. Tack sharp, with no hints of banding or mura visible during several sky shots involving motion and panning and no dead pixels visible outside of the damaged smudge. Other HD channels looked similarly good, especially National Geographic and ESPN, though older 4:3 HD material looked predictably worse. This was expected, as a set this big and this sharp will reveal every defect in the source material.

5. SD Cable Quality

Standard definition TV on several channels looked good but not great. Though it appears the Trident chip does a very good job with scaling and de-interlacing, the 47" is a little too much for most SD to ever look great. However, artifacts and jaggies were minimal to non-existent, and frankly I haven't spent much time viewing SD content as it pales in comparison with the HD channels.

6. Upscaled DVD quality

Here, the TX really shined. The de-interlacing worked beautifully when my DVD player outputted a 1080i up-scaled signal, with no hint whatsoever of film judder. The Trident chipset's scaler seemed to do an equally good job in scaling the image to 1080p when I changed the DVD players output to 720p. Unfortunately, my player will not output a 480i signal over HDMI, so I haven't had the chance to see the Trident chipset perform both scaling and de-interlacing at the same time on DVDs. Generally speaking though I was shocked and thrilled at the quality obtainable from my old DVDs; in a dark room from 8 feet away they looked very crisp using the 1080i output setting. "Casino Royale" looked fantastic, with dead on colors, and incredibly sharp resolution for a DVD. For example, on high contrast lines, such as the reflection on the side of Bond and Vesper's car as they arrive at the casino there was no softness to be seen, nor any of the dreaded jaggies, just a clear sharp line. Even older black and white DVDs, such as the Lowry transfer of Casablanca, or the Criterion edition of Rashomon looked superb, with subtle grayscale variations in the midtones and pleasant but not harsh film grain. The only flaw I could discover was when I boosted the backlight for fun; set to 100, the DVD quality looks appreciably worse, but this is meaningless so long as the backlight is kept at reasonable levels. Also, image quality deteriorated noticeably if I was less than 7 feet or so from the screen. I had fears that a screen this big would render my DVD collection useless, but they are gone, as the TX excels at displaying DVD content.

7. PC quality

When I plugged in my computer, and went to the Nvidia control panel, the Nvidia drivers recognized the monitor by model name, and switched to it without a problem. The Windows desktop looked fine, again no banding or mura was visible with perfect per pixel sharpness. Windows Media semi-1080 demonstration videos such as "Amazon" and "Coral Reef Adventure" also looked fantastic. I recently purchased a diNovo edge wireless keyboard, and using it while sitting on the couch was awesome, albeit with the Windows fonts boosted in size significantly to make reading easier.

8. Settings/Fine Tuning

My first step in adjusting the set for viewing was to darken my living room completely and then dial down the backlight completely to 0, which in turn brought the black floor down considerably. Next, I played with the contrast and brightness settings, but left them at the default fifty for the time being. Without the benefit of a real colorimeter, I could not properly calibrate the RGB values using the advanced calibration menu. Despite this, I detected no magenta shift to the panel's red (one AVSer saw a strong magenta shift compared to the LVM-47 but I saw no such problem). In fact, the set looked pretty good with the WARM color setting, and the only major change needed was to drop saturation down to 42, as colors seem far too over saturated and cartoony out of the box. Interestingly, the default sharpness setting for the set out of the factory is set at 25. I didn't attempt to play with it, but it seemed an odd choice if this is the "centered" setting, i.e. pure 1:1 pixel display with no edge enhancement. I also turned off the comb filter and dynamic contrast, both of which are needless gimmicks on a digital 1080 set that will usually make most content look worse.

For now I'm pleased with these initial settings, but the colors still need some fine tuning; I will be getting a Spyder for complete calibration in a few weeks, and will work on dialing in the RGB values/grayscale then.

As others on AVS discovered, all 4 HDMI inputs are in reality a hub design which feeds a single HDMI path into the unit. As a result, image settings cannot be set independently for each HDMI input; the settings for HDMI 1 will therefore apply to each other HDMI input. However, I'm hopeful this can be resolved via some smart firmware updating on Westinghouse's part. If the TV can store different profiles such as "Movie" or "Sports," and it can obviously understand when it has told the internal HDMI hub to switch inputs, there seems to me no reason that Westinghouse couldn't program it to change the HDMI settings dynamically every time the viewer switches to a different HDMI input. Such a change would take place entirely at the software level. Time will tell if they work around the single hub issue using this method or something similar, but it seems like it should be possible. If not, it will prove quite annoying, as my settings for DVDs and cable are significantly different from those for my PC (primarily in that I sometimes turn backlight up to 40 on the PC and 0 for the other two).

In addition, I should note that I left all of the power settings at their default factory values, and have not experienced any standby lockups or other problems, though other AVSers have. The default out of the box power settings were as follows:

DPMS: 1 minute
Sleep Timer: Off
Power on Plug: On
Power Mode: Normal
Power LED: On

9. Contrast/Black Levels/Black Crush

My primary disappointment with the TX-47 was with its black levels. This set, like most LCDs to date, still crushes black considerably when trying to produce a truly deep black.* A good example was visible on my DVD of "Amelie." With my DVD player adjusted to output the correct HDMI "black" colorspace, the bright scenes in this film looked vivid and three dimensional, especially faces. However, night shots, and certain scenes in the Paris Metro displayed large areas of crushed blacks and was especially noticeable in shots of Amelie's hair. Woodie Allen's "Manhattan" fared even worse; towards the beginning of the film there is a wide shot in his apartment where Muriel Hemingway is seated next to a lamp with the rest of the apartment in darkness. Because of the crushed blacks, the scene appears astonishingly flat and dead; the opening montage set to Rhapsody in Blue was just as bad at times, especially in the night shots of Manhattan over Central Park. Cable HD content fared slightly better at times, but at times it too was quite poor. On Discovery HD's "Sunrise Earth," the area surrounding an Everglades alligator hole was often washed out and undefined in the early morning light. Black level/black crush performance appears to be mediocre so far, especially in shots with large areas of darkness, even with the backlight zeroed and brightness notched down to 45. Increasing the brightness to 60 or so, as suggested by test patterns, eliminates most of this problem, but at the expense of a slightly more washed out picture, a natural result of the higher overall black level.

As a caveat, I'm probably being a bit harsh here; my previous set was a Sony KV-FS120 WEGA CRT, which had fantastic, rich blacks and absolutely no crushed blacks (as one would expect from a late model CRT). In any case, I will play with the settings more in an attempt to achieve a more three dimensional look, but I suspect this is one downside that I'll have to get used to.

10. Screen Defects: Mura, Banding, Pillars, Flashlights, Stuck Pixels etc.

Using J. Vincent's test screens (http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/1080p_tests), I detected only two stuck pixels, and no banding. My set does exhibit mura to a small extent and in much the same pattern noted by some other posters on AVS. However, it is only strongly noticeable with the backlight up to near 100, or in 4:3 content when the brightness variance within the side letterbox bars is visible. Unlike banding, I don't find this slight mura distracting, as it does not create the sharp contrast discontinuity that banding does, and thus does not grab my attention, even during motion. In short, during actual use, there are no screen defects that I noticed (not counting the damage from the shipper's love tap).

11. Digital Sound Pass Through

The TX includes a theoretically cool feature whereby it might be able to "strip" the audio signals from incoming HDMI/QAM/ATSC signals and then pass them through its optical SPDIF output to an audio receiver in pristine digital form. For people who want to use their TV and not their receiver as their primary A/V switch this is a potentially huge advantage, as it requires only a single digital audio cable running from the TV to your receiver. My receiver, for example, has only a single optical input, making this a very convenient way to get digital audio from all of my HDMI sources.

Unfortunately, like other members of AVS, I initially had difficulty passing a digital 5.1 signal through the TX into my receiver via the SPDIF port. What was starting out as either 5.1 Dolby Digital or DTS would end up on my receiver as a downmixed 2 channel PCM stereo signal. Various attempts to change the output settings on my DVD player, including setting it to transmit in 5.1 PCM only, failed miserably. However a second attempt at my cable box provided different results. My cable box is a Motorola 6412, and using the manual available online I discovered there is a setup menu which can be accessed by first turning the power off, then pressing the menu and select buttons on the front of the box simultaneously. From there, as my 6412 is HDMI equipped (not all are), I could select an "Additional HDMI options" choice. On that page, I only needed to change the audio output from the default Auto setting to a passthrough setting, and voila, cable programs with 5.1 tracks passed through my TV and into the receiver. In addition, other members of AVS have also reported success getting devices to pass 5.1 PCM streams, but for now this function remains hit or miss. I suspect that forced passthrough will be the key to resolving the issue in future firmware revisions. Right now, despite the availability of an external speaker option on the TX-47 menu, it appears the TX firmware attempts to decode most incoming digital signals and winds up reducing them to 2.1 stereo. But the fact that a forced passthrough works, as well as PCM passthrough for other AVSers, indicates that the hardware is clearly capable of more.

Conclusions

For the most part I'm very happy with the TX-47. The price was a steal at Best Buy, the Trident chipset is excellent, and the set has many notable improvements in the area of connectivity, calibration and panel color and washout. On the other hand, it does not improve that much on the LCD black crush/black level problems of the previous generation, which is a minor disappointment given the much improved blacks on the new Samsung and Sharp sets. Then again, those sets cost significantly more and have developed their own fair share of problems. In short, the TX is a very, very good deal, especially if your primary viewing materials are brightly lit HD content, SD-TV and DVDs.

Pros:

1. Styling: A stunning improvement over the the LVM series of monitors. The matte black and silver look of the Westinghouse TX line is preferable to the current "glossy everything" craze among the premium brands. Those sets will look tacky and overwrought in 3 or 4 years, while the TX-47 will still be clean, simple and stylish.

2. Clarity and Sharpness: On brightly lit 1080 HD material, such as Discovery HD's numerous sea life shows, the "through the window" effect is there in spades and using J. Vincent's test patterns, the TX-47 appears to resolve all the detail of a 1080 signal perfectly.

3. Viewing Angles: Although the panel does wash out to some extent, colors remain generally constant unlike some older LCD TVs. Whether this is a newer A-MVA panel is till unclear, but it is noticeably better than the LVM series.

4. Colors/Brightness: The colors appear rich and vibrant, and while the set is slightly less bright than the old LVMs, there is still plenty of brightness to go around, even with the backlight notched down considerably. The ability to dial in the RGB values individually is a big plus, and as XCalibur555 noted, once professional reviewers gets their hands on this set a close IRE grayscale fit should be possible.

5. Input options: The TX-47 has 7 HD capable inputs, including 4 HDMI ports. There isn't a configuration for my living room that I can think of either now or in the future that won't fit into some combination of these inputs, making the set future proof in this regard (the inputs are almost certainly not HDMI 1.3 compliant, but this doesn't matter much with an 8-bit LCD panel). In addition, the set has a USB port for firmware updates, though it is not yet known if Westinghouse will let owners perform the upgrade themselves.

6. QAM/ATSC Tuners: I have not used them so far, but unlike the LVM series, the TX's are full HDTVs, such that one can receiver over the air signals without the need for a cable box.

Cons:

1. Black Crush/Black Levels: So far I've not achieved a contrast/brightness setting that would not result in the clipping of white or black highlights, even with the backlight turned all the way down. In darker material, this tends to flatten the image, removing perceived depth and three dimensionality. In this regard the TX is still slightly better than most other LCDs from the last year or two, but not as good as Sharp's Dx2 line and Samsung's new 61 series; overall, it will take a little getting used to if you're coming from a CRT as I am.

2. Incomplete Sound Pass Through: Right now pass-through of digital audio is a mixed bag. It's hit or miss whether you'll be able to pass 5.1 signals through the TV via HDMI inputs, and it appears this is largely a function of the controls available on your inputs devices; time will tell whether this is a design choice/flaw or a simple firmware glitch that can be updated via firmware, but I suspect the latter.

3. Lack of Per Input Calibration Controls: This is an annoying oversight, and one I hope is corrected shortly. As almost all signals will run over HDMI in a few years time, the lack of the ability to adjust each HDMI input's picture and color settings individually severely weakens the TX-47's claim to having "advanced calibration" options.




*One way to explain what I mean by "crushed blacks" might be to analogize it to the "highlight clipping" that often occurs with digital cameras. If you use a digital camera, especially a good dSLR, there is usually a "histogram" option which displays the percentage of the shot exposed at various levels along the grayscale, from pure black to pure white. If this histogram shows that a good chunk of the histogram is "pushed" off to one side or another, it means that a large portion of the images surface area, which would otherwise display subtle changes in black/white level is blown out and being given the same grayscale value, either pure black or pure white. This occurs because the digital sensor either has too little photons to show anything other than absolute black, or is hit with too many and becomes saturated. When an image is then taken with these clipped highlights, chunks of the image surface will appear as pure black or white areas, making them appear flat or 2 dimensional (digicams sometime show these clipped highlights in the histogram view by making them flash on a preview image above the exposure histogram).

To an experienced photographer this is usually not a problem as a quick change to the various exposure settings such as ISO, aperture, f/ etc. will recenter the images histogram, allowing the full dynamic range of a given shot to be captured. But if one looks at prints taken with cheaper consumer cams, you'll often notice that large areas of indoor shots, or large areas of the sky in outdoor shots, are either pure black or pure white.

Crushed blacks on LCD displays are essentially the same effect, but for different reasons and with fewer options to re-gain the full dynamic range. When an LCD has a high black floor, it is unable to display the subtle contrast differences between various similar shades of very dark black unless one is willing to push the rest of the grayscale to the right, and thus crush whites or increase the overall black floor. A dedicated gamma control can often help in tweaking this, but the TX-47 lacks one as of now in the consumer menu. Personally, black crush is more bothersome to me overall than a high black floor, though the two are obviously related. For me crushed blacks essentially hide part of the image, and this really weakens the sense of immersion in the scene, but for others it is not that big a deal.

You will get everything you would get via QAM over your cable box (and a lot more). The difference is, by going through the cable box you are using the cable box's tuner and then outputing the video to the set via hdmi. With QAM, you are using the TX's tuner and therefore eliminating the hdmi connection.

If you plan on watching any SD, I'd highly recommend using the TX's internal tuner - I have seen SD sent from a cable box via hdmi on a few sets and it always looked horrendous. Just think of all the conversion that's going on. I'd take a TV's built-in tuner over a cable box's any day (especially the TX's).

You should try out both and see if you notice a difference. HD will probably look the same but I guarantee SD will be worlds better using the TX's internal tuner.

I'm sure the SD pic will look much better via QAM/TX Tuner than the cable box. I just don't want to lose the functionality of my HD-DVR. What is the best way to use a DVR if I'm going to use the QAM tuner? I'm sure there's a way to do this. Do I need a Tivo instead? All the help is appreciated!

Thanks

[QUOTE=midway]My cable box is a Motorola 6412, and using the manual available online I discovered there is a setup menu which can be accessed by first turning the power off, then pressing the menu and select buttons on the front of the box simultaneously. From there, as my 6412 is HDMI equipped (not all are), I could select an "Additional HDMI options" choice. On that page, I only needed to change the audio output from the default Auto setting to a passthrough setting, and voila, cable programs with 5.1 tracks passed through my TV and into the receiver.[QUOTE=midway]

I have a Motorola 6416, which has an HDMI port and I do not have that option when I go into that menu. I wonder why that is?

Alright, I've called Best Buy and have a replacement set on its way out. So i've been able to calm down and tinker with this thing a bit, and I'm very impressed. No more dirty feelings. Playing my 360 in 1080p is fantastic, I love it. The black crush is HUGE, but whatever, it always will be. No big deal.

One thing I love, and am watching right now, is Discovery Channel HD...I can't take my eyes off of it. This channel alone is worth 8 bucks a month. All in all I'm very happy with my purchase, 42" looks huge in my living room and everything seems to be working itself out for me.

I'm still looking for a list of calibrations to try though. I'll admit I don't have the patience to go notch by notch on each level until I'm happy, nor do I want to spend the money on a DVD...can anybody help me out a bit?

If this isn't against forum policy can someone tell me how much and for how many years the Best Buy extended warranty covers?

Midway, thank you very much for the review. I think it summarized the last 25 pages of this thread very well.

I actually FINALLY brought home my 42" TX today and was all giggles. I have to agree the set bezel design really is elegant and beautiful. Picture quality on SD is liveable. HD, of course, is spectacular. However, this set REALLY shines through the VGA using an HTPC. I watched a couple episodes of Planet Earth on my PC and it was very stunning.

I have a few stuck pixels but really don't care. I will never use this set from a foot away so I'm never going to see them during normal use. I have no mura whatsoever, even at 100 backlighting. I do, however, have a defect in the top left corner where there is backlight leakage. This is the only flaw I have discovered so far that bugs me. I only notice it on black screens and it annoys me when I see it. I'm wondering if it is something I could "massage" out a little so it doesn't leak so much. Anyone have any suggestions? Also, I have the analog out from the TV running to my receiver. When I press the volume up on the TV it does not increase the volume, it stays the same. I have to actually turn the volume up on the receiver. On my old TV it would up the volume from the TV volume. Am I missing a setting somewhere? I like to keep my receiver hidden from sight because it is a dreadful thing and if I want to turn up the volume I have to open up my cabinet below the TV which seems kind of silly.

Coming from my 20" CRT everything else about this set has me very happy. I don't know if I could bring myself to take this set back to BB and wait another three weeks to ship me another one... or even worse, get a new one that has more defects.

If this isn't against forum policy can someone tell me how much and for how many years the Best Buy extended warranty covers?
$250 for 4 years. hope I don't get banned...

Midway, thank you very much for the review. I think it summarized the last 25 pages of this thread very well.

I actually FINALLY brought home my 42" TX today and was all giggles. I have to agree the set bezel design really is elegant and beautiful. Picture quality on SD is liveable. HD, of course, is spectacular. However, this set REALLY shines through the VGA using an HTPC. I watched a couple episodes of Planet Earth on my PC and it was very stunning.

I have a few stuck pixels but really don't care. I will never use this set from a foot away so I'm never going to see them during normal use. I have no mura whatsoever, even at 100 backlighting. I do, however, have a defect in the top left corner where there is backlight leakage. This is the only flaw I have discovered so far that bugs me. I only notice it on black screens and it annoys me when I see it. I'm wondering if it is something I could "massage" out a little so it doesn't leak so much. Anyone have any suggestions?

Coming from my 20" CRT everything else about this set has me very happy. I don't know if I could bring myself to take this set back to BB and wait another three weeks to ship me another one.

I had some problems with mine, paid the shipping charge, and will have a new one brought to me on the 3rd. If you already paid for delivery then you get free delivery until they get it right. It's worth it if you ask me, I'm going until its perfect.

As a newbie to HDTV and home theater stuff, I finally jump the gun and bought the TX-47 after months of considerations of whether I should get an HDTV. My friends who have YD and have watched the Planet Earth series on Discovery told me many stunning moments of how good HD looks in this program.

It seems everyone was looking around in Best Buy for this model; unfortunately the Best Buy in my area didn't have it until this week, a week after my TX-47 has arrived, I could have saved about a hundred bucks (I got it from ******* and it was shipped from Wyoming to NYC). I'm very surprise to see that the shipped box is still intact after 8 days of shipping, and no physical damage anywhere, and it's the first time I saw the anti-shocking device outside of the box to monitor for rough handling of the box, really neat.

The TX-47 is definitely much bigger than I had expected, all those days wandering around Circuit City and Best Buy somehow made me think that the 47" set is not that big, but I guess my small living room made a big difference when a big set like this came, replacing my Sony 27" TV set that's over 12 years old.

My thoughts:

1. Overall I like the TX-47 a lot, especially coming from a 27" regular monitor; though I don't have HDTV set up yet (planned for next week from DirecTV, will be getting an YD DVR that records 50 hours of YD and 300 hours of SD content) and I can't receive any over-the-air local YD channels, I can't really tell how wonderful YD really looks on my TX-47, but from all the reviews I have seen on this forum I don't think I will be disappointed.

2. As close as inches from the set, I can't really see any dead pixels anywhere, I normally watch TV from 5-6 feet away and about 3 feet while using this monitor as a PC monitor.

3. There's a huge difference viewing SD channels on DirecTV, I have mixed reviews, a lot of the commercials looks much crispier and clearer while the normal comedies/movies show a lot of jaggies, some channels are better than others at various time with various shows, they were much clearer on my 27" TV. I don't know if it's because I've used the "FILL" mode to fill the screen, it seems to be betther if "STANDARD" was used but I hate to see the black vertical bars on each side of the monitor, using "FILL" option doesn't really distort the image much at all, I hardly notice the difference.

4. When connecting my PC using DVI-VGA (I'm running Vista with a Nvidia EVGA 8800 GTS 320MB card), I can only get up to 1378x768 resolution, but somehow at this resolution it doesn't stretch across the entire length of the TX-47, I've downloaded the latest driver from Nvidia but no luck, currently I'm using 1,280x1,024 and it's usable, I don't know if connecting via a DVD-HDMI cable would make any difference. Even from the Westinghouse's manual it stays that many computer systems will only recognize this monitor with 1378x768 resolution. Any suggestions how I can get 1920x1080 on my Vista PC?

Whether it's from 3ft or 6ft the fonts are clear, the sample pictures from Vista looked stunning. Since I don't have a DVD player, I'm currently using my PC's DVD player and Windows Media Player (or VLC) and from 6ft away, the picture is so much clearer/crispier than my SD content. I do see occasional twitches while using this as a PC monitor, happens a few times a day, which could be a bit annoying but I'm ok with it.

5. One thing I completed missed researching the TX-47 is Video Output, it seems that it doesn't have any, I really like the Monitor Output on my Sony 27", where I can record anything on the TV monitor digitally (from my VCR, DVR, LaserDisc or another input) using my Archos 480 Video recorder and then convert the video to IPOD. It's not going to be as easy as before (I still have a lot of video tapes I want to convert and I don't really want to buy more equipment). Any suggestions or workarounds?

6. With such as small apartment, the build-in subwoofer/speaker is good enough. The audio input next to the VGA port is pretty handy, the DVD playing from PC sounds good enough.

7. I notice that the TX-47 emits a lot of heat and some smell too, since I only got it for less than a week, I don't know if it's just my set or if this is normal?

8. Playing Wii games on this set with the FILL option looks great, you do see some jaggies on some screens, but overall it's a great experience.

9. I had to turn autoscan OFF since it switches the screen between TV and PC at various times without my intervention, which annoys me a lot. The Microsoft Wireless Laser Desktop 6000 works like a charm from as far as 6ft away, it's the first time I feel comfortable using a keyboard/mouse combo from my soft in the living room.

This is the best forum I have see so far discussing the TX-47, thanks everyone for all the great posts, they're extremely helpful and useful. :)

I'm wondering if it is something I could "massage" out a little so it doesn't leak so much. Anyone have any suggestions?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but this isn't possible. This isn't the same as the backlight shine that's so common with computer monitors. The panel has no less than 32 CCFL lamps layered between two diffusers. Usually during assembly if too much force is used when clamping the panel casing together it can partially crush the cells of the panel at the corners. This is what you're seeing. The damaged cells allow more light to pass than the others. There is no way to fix this unfortunately.

The black crush is HUGE, but whatever, it always will be. No big deal.
Stick with us. You'll get to some settings that eliminate this. Black crush and poor shadow detail aren't the same thing. Crush is purely a calibration issue and you can get those picture details back with the correct picture settings. Everybody here makes reference to turning DOWN their brightness control. I hate to point out the obvious but that is going to cause black crush. I know folks like the "punchiness" of the picture with the brightness down, but this is one of those tricks of the eye you have to mentally get over if you want to enjoy the full dynamic range the display is capable of delivering, shadow details and all.

I'm still pretty floored that with all the people who've come to this thread nobody has some settings to share after a spin through Avia or DVE. I've found a new store to buy from who will hopefully have mine to me within a week, so if we're still lacking numbers by then I'll certainly provide some details for both dim and dark room calibration. I also queried David Katzmaier over at CNET reviews to find out if they're planning to do a formal review of either of these sets. Considering how they're ruling the bang for the buck category I don't see why they wouldn't.

A quick tip for you Midway: you'll probably want to use that Comb Filter option. I have no clue why they even put that in the menu. The comb filter does not act on the picture unless it's receiving a combined chroma/luma video signal. In other words RF cable or composite video only. It reduces dot crawl and cross coloration with these low quality sources. For anything else the comb filter is not in use because it's only purpose is to separate chroma from luma in the signal and they are separate already in any kind of connection s-video and above. Having it on will help with SD viewing.

Thanks, btw, for backing me up on my "backlight at zero" candlelight vigil. :) Nobody else will give it a shot, but I suppose not everybody has the luxury of a light controlled room. Kudos for turning off the dynamic contrast too.

Stick with us. You'll get to some settings that eliminate this. Black crush and poor shadow detail aren't the same thing. Crush is purely a calibration issue and you can get those picture details back with the correct picture settings. Everybody here makes reference to turning DOWN their brightness control. I hate to point out the obvious but that is going to cause black crush. I know folks like the "punchiness" of the picture with the brightness down, but this is one of those tricks of the eye you have to mentally get over if you want to enjoy the full dynamic range the display is capable of delivering, shadow details and all.

I'm still pretty floored that with all the people who've come to this thread nobody has some settings to share after a spin through Avia or DVE. I've found a new store to buy from who will hopefully have mine to me within a week, so if we're still lacking numbers by then I'll certainly provide some details for both dim and dark room calibration. I also queried David Katzmaier over at CNET reviews to find out if they're planning to do a formal review of either of these sets. Considering how they're ruling the bang for the buck category I don't see why they wouldn't.

Through some tinkering on my own, I did manage to get a pretty good picture, at least realistic looking. I did get SOME of the shadow detail back through calibration. (I won't say its a crushed black problem anymore because the side of the lingenfelter was facing away from the sun.) I did find that the sports setting, and then changing the color temp to cool has given me not only the best picture, but the best sound as well. I was using my backlight at around 70, but it was too dark, so I bumped that up to 80 and left it there. You can see the clouds and orange bloom in the corner all the way down to 0 backlight (hence why a replacement is on the way) but other than that its perfect. Sometimes I swear there is a red-push to the set, but then on the scenes where I think the picture looks red, there is some part of a shirt or jacket or pants that is completely white and looks almost blue-ish it's so white. If there was a red-push, that white would have a tinge of red in it am I right?

I actually FINALLY brought home my 42" TX today and was all giggles. I have to agree the set bezel design really is elegant and beautiful. Picture quality on SD is liveable. HD, of course, is spectacular. However, this set REALLY shines through the VGA using an HTPC. I watched a couple episodes of Planet Earth on my PC and it was very stunning.

Congrats Flabioh! I know you were anxiously waiting for a long time! Sucks that you have the backlight problem - what's that look like anyway - do you have light bleeding on the actual screen itself?

Is that an HDMI issue? Because I had the Elite hooked up to the Insignia through HDMI and it worked flawlessly. Hooray for budget brand LCD's?

What are your backlight and contrast settings?

I left my contrast and brightness at 50 and managed to get my backlight down to 30. I've only tested so far with the THX optimizer - I am thinking of moving on to AVIA or DVE next.

I'm sure the SD pic will look much better via QAM/TX Tuner than the cable box. I just don't want to lose the functionality of my HD-DVR. What is the best way to use a DVR if I'm going to use the QAM tuner? I'm sure there's a way to do this. Do I need a Tivo instead? All the help is appreciated!

Thanks

Just split the cable and use both - your DVR/TIVO hooked up via hdmi and then when you want, you can switch to the TV input and watch QAM or analog cable directly on the TX.

Congrats Flabioh! I know you were anxiously waiting for a long time! Sucks that you have the backlight problem - what's that look like anyway - do you have light bleeding on the actual screen itself?

Thanks! My experience is bitter-sweet. I knew exactly what to expect when I got the set from everyone's detailed posts, so nothing was really a surprise when I got everything set up. I am impressed overall.

I will need to post pictures of what it looks like. Basically along the left side of the panel about 3 or 4 inches down there is a "C" or "V" of light that looks like backlight is "seeping" out. It is about 3 or 4 inches tall and about an inch wide. When I have the backlight down to 30 or below it isn't terribly noticeable except during very dark scenes. The only time I really notice it is during scene changes in movies when the screen is black and then my eye is instantly drawn to the top left corner. Though I did notice it during some "Cave" scenes while watching Planet Earth last night.

Does anyone have an info about volume control using the TV remote when outputting the audio to a receiver?

Unfortunately I am leaving on vacation tomorrow for a week so I haven't had any real time to do tweaking on the set. At least I will have something to look forward to when I get back. :)

I have not had the free time to do anything comprehensive with the DVE disc on my TX-47. The limited tests that I did perform show that my settings of 50 for most, 0 for sharpness, and 30 for backlight are as close to perfect as I can discern at this point.

4. When connecting my PC using DVI-VGA (I'm running Vista with a Nvidia EVGA 8800 GTS 320MB card), I can only get up to 1378x768 resolution, but somehow at this resolution it doesn't stretch across the entire length of the TX-47, I've downloaded the latest driver from Nvidia but no luck, currently I'm using 1,280x1,024 and it's usable, I don't know if connecting via a DVD-HDMI cable would make any difference. Even from the Westinghouse's manual it stays that many computer systems will only recognize this monitor with 1378x768 resolution. Any suggestions how I can get 1920x1080 on my Vista PC?



Just use a DVI-HDMI cable. DVI is a digital signal, while VGA is analog. This is probably why its happening. I used a dvi-hdmi cable on Vista with a 7600GT and it displayed it perfectly at 1920x1080. Too bad games arent really playable w this card at that res though.

I also finally noticed a flashlight on the bottom right of my set, only during dark scenes. Its not too bad, but might be a good excuse to try to exchange to the 52" when it comes out w my warranty :)

Well, my replacement TX-47 was delivered today, and.... it appears to be 10x better.

Zero stuck pixels and no flickering so far. Also, with my previous TX-47 I noticed this strange green and red aura that seemed to emanate from moving objects in Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition. It was especially strong around the fire in the middle of town at the beginning of the game. At first, I thought maybe it was the component cable or a design flaw, but after switching TV sets I now know for sure that it was the TV because the "aura" is gone.

I'm trying not to get too excited about this new set because it seems too perfect so far. I'll check back in a few days to post an update.

Flabioh, I've included a picture of my screen, backlight at 80, see if it looks similar:

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/8/6/22/t_IMG0493m_b05d57e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img31&img=/8/6/22/f_IMG0493m_b05d57e.jpg)

I've even got some banding it looks like, hrm, never noticed it before, oh well...thank god for delivery services eh?

Someone care to make a list of all the problems you see so I can compare it to my own list and be able to cover everything when the guy gets here to replace?

Flabioh, I've included a picture of my screen, backlight at 80, see if it looks similar:

That looks normal to me - if I crank my backlight up I get the same effect (as I'm sure any TX owner would). A high backlight makes dead pixels more noticeable and brings the clouds out ;)

Flabioh, I've included a picture of my screen, backlight at 80, see if it looks similar:

http://img31.picoodle.com/img/img31/8/6/22/t_IMG0493m_b05d57e.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/view.php?srv=img31&img=/8/6/22/f_IMG0493m_b05d57e.jpg)

I've even got some banding it looks like, hrm, never noticed it before, oh well...thank god for delivery services eh?

Someone care to make a list of all the problems you see so I can compare it to my own list and be able to cover everything when the guy gets here to replace?

Nope, doesn't look like that. I'll take a picture of it tonight so you can see the maximum effect. I also need to take some pictures of it in the entertainment center. The TV just fits there perfectly like it was meant to be there. There have been an alarming lack of pictures taken of the set during normal daylight hours. Yeah, it is a tech forum and we're trying to find all the things wrong with it that we can, but really the TV is used during the day as well and it is a beautiful thing to see in daylight. :)

That looks normal to me - if I crank my backlight up I get the same effect (as I'm sure any TX owner would). A high backlight makes dead pixels more noticeable and brings the clouds out ;)

Yeah, just check out my screenshots earlier in the thread. :D

Flabioh, I've included a picture of my screen, backlight at 80, see if it looks similar:


Your clouds/mura/leakage looks pretty bad on the bottom right. My leakage is noticeable, but much much smaller. I still think this is one of the best sets out there value wise.

That looks normal to me - if I crank my backlight up I get the same effect (as I'm sure any TX owner would). A high backlight makes dead pixels more noticeable and brings the clouds out ;)

The only issue is that I like a nice bright screen :D

Nope, doesn't look like that. I'll take a picture of it tonight so you can see the maximum effect. I also need to take some pictures of it in the entertainment center. The TV just fits there perfectly like it was meant to be there. There have been an alarming lack of pictures taken of the set during normal daylight hours. Yeah, it is a tech forum and we're trying to find all the things wrong with it that we can, but really the TV is used during the day as well and it is a beautiful thing to see in daylight. :)

That it is, I keep my blinds closed because I'm on a ground level apartment, but I did open them a bit during the day yesterday and loved what I saw. I still say Discovery HD is worth the 8 dollar TWC HD charge lol.

Originally Posted by nibbs159
40 brightness
62 contrast
40 saturation
45 hue
0 sharpness
30 backlight
neutral color temp


Originally Posted by jbradg
Brightness 45
Contrast 55
Saturation 50
Hue 50
Sharpness 0
Backlight 70
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast Off


Here are my settings based on spending a few hours playing with AVIVA and Vikuiti LCD (both with the actual colored filters). I started with Vikuiti since the UI seemed easier and then tweaked a few settings once I loaded AVIVA. Please keep in mind that I've never calibrated sets before and I'm trying to decide if I can really tell the difference in actual content.

Anyway, here are my settings as compared to the two others that were offered up earlier in this thread. At first glance at content though, I think I may be losing a bit of detail in the blacks.

Brightness 40
Contrast 65
Saturation 56
Hue 51
Sharpness 0
Backlight 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast Off

FWIW, it appears that most people agree that:
Sharpness should be set to 0
Backlight <100
Dynamic Contrast Off
Color Temp Neutral

FWIW, I live in a top floor apartment with lots of light (one of the reasons I chose an LCD over a Plasma).
-g

Here are my settings based on spending a few hours playing with AVIVA and Vikuiti LCD (both with the actual colored filters). I started with Vikuiti since the UI seemed easier and then tweaked a few settings once I loaded AVIVA. Please keep in mind that I've never calibrated sets before and I'm trying to decide if I can really tell the difference in actual content.

Anyway, here are my settings as compared to the two others that were offered up earlier in this thread. At first glance at content though, I think I may be losing a bit of detail in the blacks.

Brightness 40
Contrast 65
Saturation 56
Hue 51
Sharpness 0
Backlight 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast Off

FWIW, it appears that most people agree that:
Sharpness should be set to 0
Backlight <100
Dynamic Contrast Off
Color Temp Neutral

FWIW, I live in a top floor apartment with lots of light (one of the reasons I chose an LCD over a Plasma).
-g

Wow thanks for digging that up! After I get off of work I'm going to try all 3 of those settings, see if they make a pretty big difference.

Brightness 40
Contrast 65
Saturation 56
Hue 51
Sharpness 0
Backlight 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast Off

FWIW, it appears that most people agree that:
Sharpness should be set to 0
Backlight <100
Dynamic Contrast Off
Color Temp Neutral


My settings are close to yours, though I left my brightness and contrast at 50. Someone else also suggested lowering the brightness to 40 and contrast to around 60. When I tried that, I had problems with the THX tests. I have Avia and DVE so I will try their tests this weekend.

I also use the neutral color temp - I found that cool or warm made skintones look off.

And the dynamic contrast should definitely be turned off!

The only issue is that I like a nice bright screen :D

Try xcalibur_255's suggestion of lowering it right before you go to bed and then checking it out the next day.... when you lower it while watching you can't help but think it is way to dark but by the next day you've reset your perception.

Don't have to go right down to 0 but I think you will see that a value between 30-60 should be fine, even in a room with a lot of light. On my set, 70+ really increased the visibility of any flaws (in the source as well as the TV).

Brightness 40
Contrast 65
Saturation 56
Hue 51
Sharpness 0
Backlight 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast Off

FWIW, it appears that most people agree that:
Sharpness should be set to 0
Backlight <100
Dynamic Contrast Off
Color Temp Neutral

FWIW, I live in a top floor apartment with lots of light (one of the reasons I chose an LCD over a Plasma).
-g

From just tweaking without any discs, my settings are

Brightness 45
Contrast 63
Saturation 55
Hue 50
Sharpness 20 or 30
Backlight 40 or 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast On

I noticed when watching a baseball game that putting sharpness over 30 starts to kill the image, and at 70-80 destroys it. I also noticed that with Dynamic Contrast off, the baseball field would significantly lose detail and turn a more "greyish green". With it on, it had more color/detail.

I guess Dynamic Contrast works well in some areas, and fails in others depending on the content.

I read that a lot of people mentioned monoprice hdmi cables, how do they compare to monster or other top of the line retail brands?

I read that a lot of people mentioned monoprice hdmi cables, how do they compare to monster or other top of the line retail brands?

All my HDMI except my XBox 360's are monoprice cables. Every one from the 1.5 foot to the 15 foot have been excellent.

From just tweaking without any discs, my settings are

Brightness 45
Contrast 63
Saturation 55
Hue 50
Sharpness 20 or 30
Backlight 40 or 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast On

I noticed when watching a baseball game that putting sharpness over 30 starts to kill the image, and at 70-80 destroys it. I also noticed that with Dynamic Contrast off, the baseball field would significantly lose detail and turn a more "greyish green". With it on, it had more color/detail.

I guess Dynamic Contrast works well in some areas, and fails in others depending on the content.

Small update: after watching a some content via the RGB connection during the day with my "calibrated settings", I've noticed that the blacks look crushed. Apparently, this means that you lose detail in darker areas (like the texture of a suit on a person walking in the twilight).

My new settings for the RGB connection are as follows:
Brightness 65 (up from 45)
Contrast 68
Saturation 56
Hue 51
Sharpness 0
Backlight 50
Color temp neutral
Dynamic Contrast OFF

Dark backgrounds still look black but I can see more details now in things that aren't supposed to be pitch black. Daytime and of course animation scenes look great.

The one thing I'm concertned about is that increasing your brightness, contrast, and backlight settings will allegedly shorten the lifespan of your backlight. This is something worth considering before you leave the backlight settings cranked all the way up.

I think any further tweaking beyond my original "calibrated" settings may be up to the individual set, source interface, and viewer.
Regards,

-g

Following xcalibur's advice, and after playing with the test patterns some more, my settings are now as follows:

Brightness: 61
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 42
Hue: 47
Sharpness: 25
Backlight: 0
Color Temp: warm
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Comb Filter: On

Using the following test pattern:

http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/75285378/original

I upped the brightness setting until the step between the 0 and 8 values on the 255 grayscale was just barely visible. Viewing Sunrise Earth this morning confirmed that this change produces a smoother rolloff at the bottom end of the grayscale. When watching a shot of stonehenge that was frontlit with the rising sun, a brightness setting of 50 left the pillars a crushed mass of black, while pushing it to 60 or 61 brought out nearly all of the potential detail in the stone of the pillars. The subtle texture this increase brought back into the otherwise black parts of the pillars made a big difference in the feel of the scene, albeit at the expense of a slightly more washed out picture.

When I have a chance over the weekend I will take a look at my color temps and sharpness settings; my copy of DVE should be in by then which will provide more material to work with.

visited the Westy booth at InfoComm. TX series looks great, with both HD and SD. i looked at LOTS of panels this week, and while certainly not the top of the line, it was by far the best bang for the buck. i did not care for the gloss finish on the 52 though, looks tacky. otherwise a nice looking panel. i asked the rep about firmware updates, and he said that would be something availlable to users through the Westy site. he didnt have to stop and think about this or anything, and sounded sure of what he was saying. so this may be good news for all of you who own or are considering the TX. i am fairly certain that i will be purchasing one now, the only hurdle is deciding between a 42 or 47, as i have limited space in my living room.

Brightness: 61
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 42
Hue: 47
Sharpness: 25
Backlight: 0
Color Temp: warm
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Comb Filter: On

I run backlight at 0 also... I tried avia this last weekend but was afraid to post my settings, because 1. I'm new to all this and 2. they are very different from what everyone else's were...

Brightness: 72
Contrast: 34
Saturation: I don't remember (i'm at work)
Hue: I don't remember (i'm at work)
Sharpness: 50 (0-100 seemed to make no difference)
Backlight: 0
Color Temp: warm
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Comb Filter: Off


How much of a difference does ambient light in your room affect the brightness and contrast settings? I know this doesn't look very good (starts to washout) with the backlight at 30 or higher, but seems good to me @ 0....

Ambient light plays a huge role. If you have a bright room it will wash out the display with the backlight set to 0.

During daylight I will sometimes raise the backlight as high as 30, but never higher, and usually no more than 20. At night time or with my room darkened there is almost no ambient light, so backlight at 0 is fine. One nice thing I hadn't noticed til a few days ago is the dedicated backlight key on the upper left corner of the remote, which is very handy when using the TX to watch sports during the day.

I run backlight at 0 also... I tried avia this last weekend but was afraid to post my settings, because 1. I'm new to all this and 2. they are very different from what everyone else's were...

Brightness: 72
Contrast: 34
Saturation: I don't remember (i'm at work)
Hue: I don't remember (i'm at work)
Sharpness: 50 (0-100 seemed to make no difference)
Backlight: 0
Color Temp: warm
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Comb Filter: Off


How much of a difference does ambient light in your room affect the brightness and contrast settings? I know this doesn't look very good (starts to washout) with the backlight at 30 or higher, but seems good to me @ 0....
Without knowing how much light in the room you're up against it's hard to say about the brightness. The brightness setting will vary from person to person depending upon how much ambient light is in the room. It's important to remember that a calibration is only relevant for the amount of ambient light present at the time the calibration was performed. More or less light in the room will require different settings for the brightness control (black level). I really suspect your contrast setting though. That's way too low and you are needlessly flattening out your highlights with that setting.

visited the Westy booth at InfoComm. TX series looks great, with both HD and SD. i looked at LOTS of panels this week, and while certainly not the top of the line, it was by far the best bang for the buck. i did not care for the gloss finish on the 52 though, looks tacky. otherwise a nice looking panel. i asked the rep about firmware updates, and he said that would be something availlable to users through the Westy site. he didnt have to stop and think about this or anything, and sounded sure of what he was saying. so this may be good news for all of you who own or are considering the TX. i am fairly certain that i will be purchasing one now, the only hurdle is deciding between a 42 or 47, as i have limited space in my living room.

Awesome! Thanks for the info about the firmware upgrade. I can't wait until they start releasing them.

I got the 42" and it is plenty big for our living room. Had I got the 47" I would have to move my head around to see everything. :)

dammit, i knew i screwed that up doing it from memory...

Brightness: 34
Contrast: 72
Saturation: 61
Hue: 48
Sharpness: 50 (0-100 seemed to make no difference)
Backlight: 0
Color Temp: warm
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Comb Filter: On


how useless does everyone feel the standard modes are?
I'll list them here for those that don't have the set yet...

movie
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 60
Saturation: 55
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 80
Backlight: 70
warm

sports
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 60
Saturation: 50
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 70
Backlight: 0
neutral

game
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 55
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 55
Backlight: 100

enhanced
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 60
Saturation: 60
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 30
Backlight: 100
cool

Brightness: 61
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 42
Hue: 47
Sharpness: 25
Backlight: 0
Color Temp: warm
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Comb Filter: On

Using the following test pattern:

http://www.pbase.com/jackcnd/image/75285378/original

after looking at that test image my 34 brightness lets me see difference in the whites between 240 and 248 and black difference between 32 and 40

when i switch to 60 brightness i see white at 224 and 232 and black at the above mentioned 8 to 16

so what is supposed to be the ideal? between 8-16 on black and between 248-255 on white?

edit: heh answered my own question some I think... forgot about contrast, when I changed it to be the same as midway's i get 8-16 black and 240-248 whites...

Awesome! Thanks for the info about the firmware upgrade. I can't wait until they start releasing them.

I got the 42" and it is plenty big for our living room. Had I got the 47" I would have to move my head around to see everything. :)

The 42" is an absolutely huge set. I was surprised by the size of the box, and even more so the set by itself (I promised myself I'd get at least 46" I realize now I may have been mistaken...) For limited space I recommend the 42" by far.

I've been toying around with my settings using component with a Comcast HD-DVR. I really like what I have dialed in right now. The room is pretty dark. I've watched a little bit of everything with these settings and I'm very impressed!!!! Redsox game is unreal!!!

Video Settings:

Brightness: 61
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 42
Hue: 47
Sharpness: 7
Backlight:70
Color Temp: Neutral

Settings/User Calibration:

Deinterlace: Off
3D Comb: On
Color Temp: Neutral
R: 148
G: 154
B: 142
Dynamic: Off

O got the free LG upscaling player from the BB online deal, need another HDMI. Will report on that later. It's going to be a long night :-)

Man, Westinghouse has a bum rap. Mentioning this TV on other forums got me flamed for 2-3 pages for spending 1300 dollars on it and not buying Sony Samsung or Sharp.

Apparently a D92U, XBR2, and LNS-4095D beat the pants off of my set (lol at the LNS-4095D).

Anybody wanna comment on poor de-interlacing? Poor blending? and poor motion estimation on westinghouse TV's? Because people are filling my head with awful ideas.

Redsox game is unreal!!!

Haha, I can't wieght to get this and watch the Sox. I will probably use your settings as a baseline since now.

Man, Westinghouse has a bum rap. Mentioning this TV on other forums got me flamed for 2-3 pages for spending 1300 dollars on it and not buying Sony Samsung or Sharp.

Apparently a D92U, XBR2, and LNS-4095D beat the pants off of my set (lol at the LNS-4095D).

Anybody wanna comment on poor de-interlacing? Poor blending? and poor motion estimation on westinghouse TV's? Because people are filling my head with awful ideas.

I'm on hour number 2 of watching my TX-47, and I'm amazed!!! The redsox game is jaw-dropping. It replaced my old Olevia LT-30 which did well over 3 years. Well worth the price. What are you not liking about your set?

Haha, I can't wieght to get this and watch the Sox. I will probably use your settings as a baseline since now.

It's very enjoyable at the moment :-) Kids asleep, Guinness in the glass, and matsuzaka on the mound.

I've dialed down the R setting about 3 notches.

Man, Westinghouse has a bum rap. Mentioning this TV on other forums got me flamed for 2-3 pages for spending 1300 dollars on it and not buying Sony Samsung or Sharp.

Apparently a D92U, XBR2, and LNS-4095D beat the pants off of my set (lol at the LNS-4095D).

Anybody wanna comment on poor de-interlacing? Poor blending? and poor motion estimation on westinghouse TV's? Because people are filling my head with awful ideas.

I've been watching the new Sharp and Samsung products since they were announced, and I thought I was going to get a either a Sharp 92 or 82U or a Samsung 61/65.

I was initially disappointed with some of the 1080p PC input limitations, then the artifact complaints when they came out, then the nasty job they did with SD (based on reviews and a few looks at Sharps in stores) and then the HDMI syncing issues. That discouraged me enough to consider waiting for an LED BLU system (which is what I REALLY want), but even if the Samsung 81's come out next month it may be months to get one, may cost a substantial premium and may be buggy for awhile.

That's when I thought I'd start to look for better value/ quality ratio. I liked the fact that the TX had current technology and had good pre-release buzz from people who follow this a lot closer than me. I liked that fact that it released on time. With the way prices are coming down, I really didn't want to be pissed off for a top dollar purchase. I got the TX and a PS3 for less money than any of the original stuff I was looking at.

So far, I've been very impressed. I ran quick passes of HQV last night on both HD and SD disks. HQV is a video processor torture test, showing a series of worst case screens for interpolation (jaggies), image noise, different cadence conversion, etc. It demos what to look for and shows comparison examples using PASS or FAIL ratings and some PASSING tests as GOOD/ BETTER/ BEST. The weakest test was for noise reduction, and it's rating is pretty subjective. I would say that no test failed and the worst PASS was BETTER. Full disclosure though, I've never seen these tests run on any other sets. Sometime this weekend I'm going to setup a camera and get some pics to upload, and also download a copy of DisplayMate for setup.

I'm not saying that this is the best panel out there. I still get contrast envy looking at the high-buck sets, but I sure wouldn't give up the PS3 to pay the difference. (Hell, I'm already in the 85th percentile in FAH protein-folding in less than a month!) Also, I haven't seen any comprehensive reviews yet, so how do these guys know this stuff about this series? I may be proven wrong here, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the TX get a lot better street cred after it starts getting reviews.

TF50

I'm confused about this issue regarding not being able to have different settings per HDMI input because it uses an HDMI bus . Mine does this; both the USER>CALIBRATION (all settings) and the VIDEO MODE>USER (all settings) can be adjusted per input and saved. Am I missing something?

TF50

I'm confused about this issue regarding not being able to have different settings per HDMI input because it uses an HDMI bus . Mine does this; both the USER>CALIBRATION (all settings) and the VIDEO MODE>USER (all settings) can be adjusted per input and saved. Am I missing something?

TF50

The issue is that all four HDMI inputs share one set of video settings due to being on a hub. The rest of the inputs can have discrete settings, though. Are you stating that on your set you can have separate settings PER HDMI INPUT? If that is the case then it is contradictory to what has been stated by other members in this thread and Westinghouse Digital as well.

Would you mind telling us the firmware on your set?

The issue is that all four HDMI inputs share one set of video settings due to being on a hub. The rest of the inputs can have discrete settings, though. Are you stating that on your set you can have separate settings PER HDMI INPUT? If that is the case then it is contradictory to what has been stated by other members in this thread and Westinghouse Digital as well.

Would you mind telling us the firmware on your set?

Yes and no. I checked again. It looks like it will NOT keep separate settings for:

Deinterlace:
3D Comb Filter:
Dynamic Contrast:
(these three always change to the last entered for either HDMI)

But it WILL for:

Color Temp:
Brightness:
Contrast:
Saturation:
Hue:
Sharpness:

Here are the numbers I put in to test:

HDMI1
Deinterlace: ON
3D Comb Filter: OFF
Color Temp: WARM
Dynamic Contrast: OFF
Brightness: 45
Contrast: 45
Saturation: 45
Hue: 45
Sharpness: 20

HDMI2
Deinterlace: ON
3D Comb Filter: OFF
Color Temp: COOL
Dynamic Contrast: OFF
Brightness: 50
Contrast: 50
Saturation: 50
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 25


The software is probably the same as everyone else:
5110_1.1.0 built on April 13, 2007

Maybe that's what was meant, but my interpretation was none of them could be different. Has anyone else tried this?

TF50

There is no reason to believe that individual video settings for each HDMI port could not be implemented with revised firmware. Even if all four external HDMI connections are really one logical internal HDMI port, as long as you select the connector and the video settings togather, you should be able to have individual settings for each device attached.

To my mind the more serious limitation is that each connector needs it's own HDCP encryption buffer, and as far as I can tell there is only one key buffer for the hub. Even though each of the four HDMI inputs can present credentials that say it is HDCP enabled, once you have selected a particular input and displayed video, the HDCP key buffer is handshaking continuously with the selected port. Then when you switch away from the active input to a different one, the new input initializes with a new video encryption key and displays video from the new source. Unfortunately when this happens the original handshake ends and the original source disables itself, requiring a power cycle to restore the handshake.

This second problem cannot be fixed with firmware, only by re-designing the input hardware to discard the hub design and implement four independant HDMI ports each capable of maintaining a video encryption handshake via a discrete HDCP encryption chip.

Too bad they discarded the independant port designs of the LVM series of 1080p monitors, which do not have this problem. If the HD source being power cycled to restore the handshake is something like the first generation Toshiba HD-A1 HD-DVD player, the power on sequence is minutes long because you are booting a Linux PC. Not very convenient.

I hate DRM sometimes.

Gary

TF50, the best cure for contrast envy is to implement an ambient backlight. This used to require a couple of $50 flourescent lights with special 6500K color temperature tubes, which were inconvenient as hell and sometimes made noise. However if you hunt around the lighting shops on your area, you may be able to find white LED rope lights in "cool white" which are 6500K, you need 6-9 feet. These are quite simple to mount behind and around the TS whether you have it on a wall mount or the stand. Use a couple of stick-on cable clamps below and the two loops for the security cable on top. Typical cost is under $50 and it's money well spent.

Gary

when you switch away from the active input to a different one, the new input initializes with a new video encryption key and displays video from the new source. Unfortunately when this happens the original handshake ends and the original source disables itself, requiring a power cycle to restore the handshake.

Does this mean that if I had my computer hooked up to one HDMI port (using a DVI to HMDI connector) and my DVR hooked up to another HDMI port I could not be using my computer and then quickly switch to the DVR to check the score of a game and then switch back to the computer without restarting the computer?

I'm on hour number 2 of watching my TX-47, and I'm amazed!!! The redsox game is jaw-dropping. It replaced my old Olevia LT-30 which did well over 3 years. Well worth the price. What are you not liking about your set?

Well, my only issue might be a cable company problem. You see, my DVR box, the Scientific Atalanta from Time Warner Cable, won't switch to 1080i or 720p when watching an HDTV channel. An HDTV LED flashes on the front of it but the resolution doesn't change. I press info on the remote and I get a 480i number on discovery HD, but the picture isn't as noisy as regular HD and does look a bit sharper. There are some jagged lines though. I'm thinking I got a bad box. When I had an Insignia, the resolution on ALL channels was 720x480 (480p if I'm not mistaken) and I'm thinking its the box that is causing this problem. Am I right?

Has anyone tried to use a PAL source (576i, 576p)? Does it work?

Does this mean that if I had my computer hooked up to one HDMI port (using a DVI to HMDI connector) and my DVR hooked up to another HDMI port I could not be using my computer and then quickly switch to the DVR to check the score of a game and then switch back to the computer without restarting the computer?

No, probably not. The only time the handshake is done is when you are displaying video protected by HDCP encryption. This is pretty much limited to HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disk playback on the PC now. Standalone HD-DVD and Blu-Ray disk players also use HDCP. Sources which do not invoke HDCP include standard DVD players, NTSC and ATSC OTA (over-the-air) tuners, PC games, and downloaded file playback from the web.

There are also external sources like cable boxes and cable DVRs some of which have implemented HDCP encryption. Even then, the handshake should not be required unless you are displaying protected content like PPV movies or Premium channels. By law the OTA local channels must be displayed in the clear without HDCP.

As long as the video source is not in a protected mode, the encryption chip is not in use and you can freely switch away and back from those video sources.

Gary

Well, my only issue might be a cable company problem. You see, my DVR box, the Scientific Atalanta from Time Warner Cable, won't switch to 1080i or 720p when watching an HDTV channel. An HDTV LED flashes on the front of it but the resolution doesn't change. I press info on the remote and I get a 480i number on discovery HD, but the picture isn't as noisy as regular HD and does look a bit sharper. There are some jagged lines though. I'm thinking I got a bad box. When I had an Insignia, the resolution on ALL channels was 720x480 (480p if I'm not mistaken) and I'm thinking its the box that is causing this problem. Am I right?

I have a Motorola which allows me to set whatever output I want from my component or HDMI port. I send 1080i to my TX which I find smoother than 720p. If you're not getting either 720p or 1080i from the box, then I would search for some type of menu on the scientific atlanta box. I'm not familiar with their models. Doesn't Cisco own them now?

BTW, the TX looks better tonight than it did last night. Maybe because I have a few more hours on it. I just got it mounted to my stand. I'll take some pics soon.

technofan50, thanks for clairifying. It does seem that at least on your set there are discrete video setting for each of the 4 HDMI inputs. Does anyone else care to test their set for this discrepancy?

Also, looking through the thread, you have the same firmware as the rest of the owners. Weird.

This is very quickly turning into the "Emonroe's questions about the TX series" thread, but do you guys know why a small black bar with a pink flickering line appears when watching DiscHD in 1080i?

I've read through this thread and viewed the different photos and such but I am hoping to get a short response from someone who has used this TV (TX-42) and the older LVM-42w2. My questions pertain mainly to computer use & games:

1. Is there noticable ghosting on the new model or is it equivalent to the LVM? Early reports seemed to indicate some ghosting, but I couldn't determine if those statements were later retracted.
2. On a blank/black screen in a darkened room, is it more/less/or similarly grey to the LVM? The photos seem to indicate it isn't as dark. I run my LVM at 0 backlight and would probably run the TX nearly as low.
3. Does the TX support a large variety of resolutions such as 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024(960?). This may have been answered previously as I read most of the thread a couple days ago.

My other concern is the actual pixel structure. While at Bestbuy yesterday, I was able to see the TX in action but did not adjust anything and could only watch what they were feeding it. The pixels on the set appeared to have a lot more black-border surrounding each one than I was expecting. This appears to be common on many of the LCDs I looked at and would be called the screen-door-effect on projectors, but the LVM I am looking at right now doesn't have nearly as much black and can't be seen at two feet away (I normally sit about 3.5 feet from the screen [you do get used to the size]).

Anyone care to make comments or opinions? Thanks.

1. Is there noticable ghosting on the new model or is it equivalent to the LVM? Early reports seemed to indicate some ghosting, but I couldn't determine if those statements were later retracted.
2. On a blank/black screen in a darkened room, is it more/less/or similarly grey to the LVM? The photos seem to indicate it isn't as dark. I run my LVM at 0 backlight and would probably run the TX nearly as low.
3. Does the TX support a large variety of resolutions such as 800x600, 1024x768, 1280x1024(960?). This may have been answered previously as I read most of the thread a couple days ago.

1. I use the tx47 as my only computer monitor right now. I'm a pretty big pc gamer, although I've been in a most RTS mood lately. I can say that in many hours of playing the Fury beta i've seen no ghosting (i know it's not doom3 or prey but it is very twitchy/almost fps'y).... played a ton of Company of Heroes too with no problems.
2. This is subjective of course but it seems just as black as my 24" acer monitor that's collecting dust on the floor.
3.it'll do 1024x768 @ 75 or 60 hz and 1280x1024(and 960) @ 75 or 60hz


I see the black borders on pixels at 2.5 feet and they go away around 3 feet. In my setup my head is exactly 5 feet away from the screen and I can't see them. (RatPadz mounted to the Lazeboy ftw)

technofan50, thanks for clairifying. It does seem that at least on your set there are discrete video setting for each of the 4 HDMI inputs. Does anyone else care to test their set for this discrepancy?

Also, looking through the thread, you have the same firmware as the rest of the owners. Weird.

I can confirm this as well. It keeps seperate settings on each HDMI input aside from the 3 mentioned. I was wondering why it seemed to change my settings on each input. I have been tinkering quite a bit and stumbled across that as well. Nice find for those wanting seperate settings.

technofan50, thanks for clairifying. It does seem that at least on your set there are discrete video setting for each of the 4 HDMI inputs. Does anyone else care to test their set for this discrepancy?

Also, looking through the thread, you have the same firmware as the rest of the owners. Weird.

Oops. Let me be the first to jump in and reveal the flaw in my testing on this. It seems that you can only save separate HDMI values per input until you actually HAVE an input signal, then they all revert back to the last values saved. Yesterday I was saving these with only a source in HDMI 1. Today I plugged my PC in HDMI 2 and poof, the magic vanished. I guess this does shed a little more light on their process of using the hub. They can save discreet values for each, but after doing the communication syncing, they pull from a single global value and overwrite them. :(

Using some Barco medical monitor software I had around, I did do an adjustment in the VGA port and came up with these numbers for PC'ing at 1080:

Color Temp: Neutral
Brightness: 70
Contrast: 35
Saturation: 50
Hue: 50
Sharpness: 0
Backlight: 30

The color values are NA here, but these numbers gave the best blacks and whites with full dynamic range down to <5%. I suspect using them on video will look pretty washed out, but upping the contrast from there might get you to a reasonable point.

Gary; thanks for the idea of the poor man's Ambilight. I can see where backlighting the monitor would squish your visual perception on the low end of the gray scale, but doesn't this also tend to mask shadow detail just like lowering the dynamic range of the screen itself; or do you still discern that even though the blacks look blacker?

TF50

Hello all, My graduation party was yesterday and I made around $1600 :cool: . Ive been wanting a new HDTV for awhile now currently I have a Sony KD-36XS955. I found this thread this morning and now I'm very instreasted in the TX-47F430S. How will this tv compare to my current tv? This is for a bedroom setup and I will be sitting 4-5 feet from the TV. Are they any better options for under 2k ? Also I will be hooking up my Xbox 360 with the HD DVD addon and hopefully a blu ray player (still reading on what one to get).
Thanks, Ryan.

To those wondering about ghosting: AFAIK there are zero ghosting issues with all the LVM and TX series products. When ghosting is seen it is always on an analog input (VGA or Component video) and it is the result of using a cheap cable at 1080i/1080p resolutions (relatively high frequencies). If you have an issue with such ghosts, go after the cable first, then the video source component.

Gary

Just an fyi, the 42" version, TX-42F430S, is available at BB website for a relatively attractive price.

TF50, reading the previous posts it does seem that other members have exhibited the same behavior where the video settings are lost as soon the input goes active. It just didn't make sense when I read your original post that your set was retaining the settings while others with the same firmware have the opposite behavior. Anyway, good to know and hopefully this issues can be addressed in the next user upgradeable firmware.

Wow that's a great price. It's making me reconsider getting the 47 inch...well that lasted about 2 seconds I want the 47 inch again.

Does anyone know when the firmware update is expected to be released.

So, no idea for a PAL signal then?

Does anyone use the 42" set with Dish Network? I had an old Westy, but the Dish remote would have a hard time turning the set on (took 2-3 tries). I would like to buy this, and was wondering if this set responds better than my old one!
Thanks for any help!

Tom in TX

I was wondering if someone could help me out. My comcast HD box allows me to set the output of the 4:3 signal. I can set it to off, 480i, 480p, or stretch. I have it set to off so I'm, thinking the Westy is scaling the SD pic but not positive. If I force the cable box to 480i, shouldn't the west scale it? I just want to utilize the trident chip rather than the TV displaying what the STB sends it.

Thanks

Hello all, My graduation party was yesterday and I made around $1600 :cool: . Ive been wanting a new HDTV for awhile now currently I have a Sony KD-36XS955. I found this thread this morning and now I'm very instreasted in the TX-47F430S. How will this tv compare to my current tv? This is for a bedroom setup and I will be sitting 4-5 feet from the TV. Are they any better options for under 2k ? Also I will be hooking up my Xbox 360 with the HD DVD addon and hopefully a blu ray player (still reading on what one to get).
Thanks, Ryan.

Ryan,

I don't know about your old Sony but I picked up the 47" on Friday and have no second thoughts about it. I have a 360 as well and GRAW2 is insane. If you're nonly 4-5 feet away, I think the 47" is too big for you. I'm about 9 feet away and the 47" is just right. 1:1 pixel mapping on all inputs is sweet as well. Good luck with your decision.

1. I use the tx47 as my only computer monitor right now. I'm a pretty big pc gamer, although I've been in a most RTS mood lately. I can say that in many hours of playing the Fury beta i've seen no ghosting (i know it's not doom3 or prey but it is very twitchy/almost fps'y).... played a ton of Company of Heroes too with no problems.
2. This is subjective of course but it seems just as black as my 24" acer monitor that's collecting dust on the floor.
3.it'll do 1024x768 @ 75 or 60 hz and 1280x1024(and 960) @ 75 or 60hz

I see the black borders on pixels at 2.5 feet and they go away around 3 feet. In my setup my head is exactly 5 feet away from the screen and I can't see them. (RatPadz mounted to the Lazeboy ftw)
I'm a little late in responding, but thanks FAtmotti for the great info. Looks like I'll be swapping my LVM for the new TX model tomorrow at Bestbuy. My only problem now is trying to get them to do an even exchange as they want to up-charge me because the Bestbuy computer shows the LVM model being a couple hundred dollars cheaper than the TX, even though the amount I paid a year ago was higher than the current TX price. This doesn't seem to match what the Bestbuy 4-year warranty describes for replacements.

Hello all, My graduation party was yesterday and I made around $1600 :cool: . Ive been wanting a new HDTV for awhile now currently I have a Sony KD-36XS955. I found this thread this morning and now I'm very instreasted in the TX-47F430S. How will this tv compare to my current tv? This is for a bedroom setup and I will be sitting 4-5 feet from the TV. Are they any better options for under 2k ? Also I will be hooking up my Xbox 360 with the HD DVD addon and hopefully a blu ray player (still reading on what one to get).
Thanks, Ryan.

I'm in the same boat money wise but I graduated last year... I currently have a 32" Vizio from Sams club but the latest prices @ BB have me thinking upgrade. I think I'm going to go with the 42". I can't wait to test out the 360 on this thing! My PC (8800GTS 640MB equipped) will also be getting a workout... :D

Will PIP be enabled in the firmware update? I know there is a grayed out option in the menu.

Is the TX-47F430S available at Costco? Has anyone ever purchased this model there? The Costco return policy is a real plus in my eyes.

Thanks,
jawgee

OK, I'll expand my question a bit since there were no responses to my original question. Are there any other stores besides Best Buy that sell the TX-47F430S model? I'm not digging Best Buy's 30 day (or is it 14 day?) return policy.

Did anyone buy the extended warranty from Best Buy on the 47" model? Are you allowed to state the price? I'm just interested in possibly getting the 52" Westy when it comes out, but I'm finding it very difficult to wait for it. :rolleyes:

Thanks,
jawgee

I was wondering if someone could help me out. My comcast HD box allows me to set the output of the 4:3 signal. I can set it to off, 480i, 480p, or stretch. I have it set to off so I'm, thinking the Westy is scaling the SD pic but not positive. If I force the cable box to 480i, shouldn't the west scale it? I just want to utilize the trident chip rather than the TV displaying what the STB sends it.

Thanks

Following things happens depending on how you set the 4:3 override:

1) Off = comcast box will output 1080i albeit in a 4:3 frame with black bars on each of the two sides.

2) Stretch = same as above but the image will stretch to fill your whole display and removing the pillar boxes.

3) 480P = Pretty self-explanatory

4) 480i = You can try that but on my lvm47w1 it does not allow 480i and will display out of range signal.

If you really must use the Trident chip rather than the comcast dvr, then I'd advise you to use either 480p or 480i (if the box allows 480i). I personally use stretch since I hate the resync required for resolution change when going from HD to SD.

Hope it helps.

Is anybody else using a Wii on their TX-47F430S? When I turn on 480p on the Wii it looks worse than when I leave it on 480i. Is it because the TV is doing a better job at de-interlacing than the Wii does?

can anyone compare this to the vizio 47 at costco and sams.. i have it down to the 2, but don't know nearly as much about this set, so any advice would be great since i plan on going to st louis and getting one this week.

No one else is having any handshaking issues with the playstation 3? My TV must be bad. When I play games on the PS3 through any of the HDMI ports on the tv, the tv sometimes goes black for a second or two and the sound cuts out, but then it comes back on. This happens during play and while watching movies very randomly. Has anyone else experienced this, or should I just return this set and get a new one? Thanks.

No one else is having any handshaking issues with the playstation 3? My TV must be bad. When I play games on the PS3 through any of the HDMI ports on the tv, the tv sometimes goes black for a second or two and the sound cuts out, but then it comes back on. This happens during play and while watching movies very randomly. Has anyone else experienced this, or should I just return this set and get a new one? Thanks.

i wouldn't be surprised if these are shipping with a different firmware version.

OK, I'll expand my question a bit since there were no responses to my original question. Are there any other stores besides Best Buy that sell the TX-47F430S model? I'm not digging Best Buy's 30 day (or is it 14 day?) return policy.

Did anyone buy the extended warranty from Best Buy on the 47" model? Are you allowed to state the price? I'm just interested in possibly getting the 52" Westy when it comes out, but I'm finding it very difficult to wait for it. :rolleyes:

Thanks,
jawgee

Best Buy is their preferred provider in the states, so they had them much earlier. I know that others are advertising online, but not sure if any of those places have stock yet.

BB return policy is 30 days. I just bought the 4 year PSP yesterday for a buck ninety nine.

No one else is having any handshaking issues with the playstation 3? My TV must be bad. When I play games on the PS3 through any of the HDMI ports on the tv, the tv sometimes goes black for a second or two and the sound cuts out, but then it comes back on. This happens during play and while watching movies very randomly. Has anyone else experienced this, or should I just return this set and get a new one? Thanks.

I've had both for about a month. I haven't done a lot of gaming or movie watching, but the few times I did, no problems at all with games and two instances of lockup during movies. This wasn't dropouts or black screen, but everything would freeze until I could force the player to skip a chapter, or just stop and restart.

Questions: do you have 1.81 firmware on the PS3? And cheapest and quickest, have you tried a different HDMI cable?

TF50

PS. Link to broadcastnewsroom blog with tech specs on this hardware for those interested. http://www.broadcastnewsroom.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=153728

Yes, I have the latest update for the playstation 3. I just ordered a new cable to see if that is the problem, even though the cable shouldn't matter. It was working fine with my old LVM-42w2.

Yes, I have the latest update for the playstation 3. I just ordered a new cable to see if that is the problem, even though the cable shouldn't matter. It was working fine with my old LVM-42w2.

There's really no rhyme or reason to it. I always experience flickering/dropouts during launch of a title but haven't had any during playback (knock on wood). However, the other day the screen went black for a second while I was running a Linux session off the PS3.

Just one of those things to put up with I guess. Is it the PS3, the Westy, HDCP, a combination - who knows?

Yes, I have the latest update for the playstation 3. I just ordered a new cable to see if that is the problem, even though the cable shouldn't matter. It was working fine with my old LVM-42w2.

I would try different types of HDMI cable. The monoprice ones I bought flicker with the PS3, but the DVI Gear ones I bought from amazon dont. Its very strange, but I havent had a flicker since.

I would try different types of HDMI cable. The monoprice ones I bought flicker with the PS3, but the DVI Gear ones I bought from amazon dont. Its very strange, but I havent had a flicker since.
Thanks, I will update when the new cable arrives.

I went in to price match my TX set since I bought it when it was $100 over MSRP. I was expecting that much back. The set was also on sale. Initially the lady matched only $55. I told her that is not correct. She called the manager over and he took care of it. He price matched to the current sale price AND 12% off that. I also got money back from the 4 yr warranty. So I got ALOT BACK. And am very pleased, even if the set does have minor issues.

Thanks, I will update when the new cable arrives.

I'm experiencing alot of the same flickering that you mention. It's very strange since it happens very erratically. I didn't flicker once (I think) during the whole blu ray movie of crank one night, and just yesterday while watching an upconverted dvd it flickered a few times and even lost signal completely with the ps3. Please let me know if the cable helps at all. Thanks!

My GF, with my prodding, got a Westy TX47 yesterday from BestBuy for $1617 + tax.

We couldn't see any real difference on average programming between this set and the Phlips 47" Ambilight for $2200+ and some of the other sets. Perhaps we're not picky or we're desensitized, but overall zero issues when we hooked up the cable. Analog SD channels look pretty damned good too (there's only so much you can do when you blow up analog 480i info to almost four feet diagnonal!)

The only 'weirdness' is one that's not really Westy's fault - the digital garbage at the top line of the screen on some but not all HD broadcasts. This is wrongly used/out-of-spec by broadcasters for Closed Caption data.

Westy and Trident followed the true spec and shouldn't be blamed -- however I'd bet this blinky top line could be suppressed in a future firmware release. I'll log a call on this tomorrow to see if that can help kickstart this process.

Now, my nitpick.

I typically get a service manual/schematic for any piece of equipment I buy.

I called Westy 800# today to buy, beg, borrow, or steal a manual. After the (friendly, English-speaking) rep checked with someone and came back a minute later, he told me he could not sell/give one to end users, and that it could affect warranty, etc. I tried to delve further but this is the programmed answer.

He tried to assauage my worries about set repair, and I'm sure I really do have no worries.

But the likely failure mode for this set will not be in logic or LCD, it'll be power supply, backlight or relay failure. These are all addressable by myself and it'd be easier and cheaper for me to do this myself than to box/ship this out.

Does anyone have a manual/schematic copy/scan? I just like knowing what's "under the hood".



Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Does anyone have a manual/schematic copy/scan? I just like knowing what's "under the hood".

Welcome to the forum Bill!

So far there has been no mention of a service menu or manual. If you look at last year's Westinghouse threads, one AVS member was able to obtain the code to get into the service menu on the LVM line... unfortunately that code no longer works. I don't believe Westinghouse ever put out an actual service manual. I think at best we can hope for a new code to get into the TX's service menu.

Of course, Westinghouse might not be as eager to provide access to the TX's service menu since they added more calibration controls to the regular user menu.

the TX does in fact have a locked service menu. i saw it accessed via a remote code at infocomm, however i missed the specific button presses.

Welcome to the forum Bill!

Thank you, thank you.

I did a lotta browsing here before giving thumbs-up to my GF. Frankly we could not articulate enough (if any) differences in quality among major brand 1080p sets
(we'll exclude iLo and Vizio, those always looked funky to me) for watching average fare. I'm pretty sure Sony vs Sharp vs Philips vs Westy all have their strong and weak points, much of which may really be due to init calibration diffrences. I think some of these brand-vs.-brand debates are like Ford vs. Chevy, or 9mm vs. .45ACP in the shooting community .

As someone who writes digital camera firmware for a living, I really couldn't find much fault - esp considered from power-on without any tweaks of settings. (I did back off the backlight setting to 80 for my GF's room lighting.)

Fit/finish were all tops. No dead or stuck pixels apparent.

So far there has been no mention of a service menu or manual.

From the phrasing danced aroudn by the rep, a service manual w/schematic may indeed exist. I don't think production consumer gear would exist without one - if anything, for their internal service use and overall planning (say, man-hour estimation for warranty work).

Westy will certainly have to deal with this issue as warranties expire (i.e, roughly a year from now...)

They cannot legally restrict 3rd party or user service by restricting the service information (unless they wanna continue the warranty beyond the 1 year) - as that has the net effect of channeling paid service biz to Westy only, which is a no-no. (IIRC, Berkey Photo v. Eastman Kodak Co. had something to say about matters similar to these.)

And the fact that thus prospective warranty service essentially requires you to provide $$$ to a shipping firm instead of doing it oneself is an interesting legal conundrum.


With big TVs it's often cheaper/easier to fix it yourself than to box & ship.

Schematics with parts values are always nice.

That's why I got my Philips projo TV service disc (CDROM) for my new 46PP9302 in 2003.


Of course, Westinghouse might not be as eager to provide access to the TX's service menu since they added more calibration controls to the regular user menu.

Yes, I can understand reluctance to let people screw things up.

A properly-designed USB firmware update method combined w/"capture existing settings" thru USB stick would allow any set to be restored to its as-shipped status by a user capturing settings on USB stick. There are graceful ways to stop TVs from being turned into "47 inch bricks" when done properly and with the right kind of boot ROM layout.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

Is anybody else using a Wii on their TX-47F430S? When I turn on 480p on the Wii it looks worse than when I leave it on 480i. Is it because the TV is doing a better job at de-interlacing than the Wii does?

You're right, the Wii does look better in 480i. I think its the TV doing a better job as well :)

You're right, the Wii does look better in 480i. I think its the TV doing a better job as well :)
displays tend to do the better job of upscaling. even some high end Marantz gear will only output in 480i, as they feel it is better to let the display handle the scaling.

I'm looking at the Vizio GV47L 47" and the Westinghouse TX-47F430S, anyone have an opinion on what one is better? I'm going to be using my xbox 360 with the HD-DVD add-on and and hopefully a Blu-Ray player (still reading on what one to get).
Thanks, Ryan

Ryan, i am glad you asked the question, i asked the comparison above, i can afford 2000 total on a 47" lcd and want to get the best set i can for the lowest price of course... I do not care what name it is, its the quality that counts to me.. i do want a decent pic though..

Bill, it sounds like Westinghouse should hire you to write their USB firmware update feature! :)

I'm looking at the Vizio GV47L 47" and the Westinghouse TX-47F430S, anyone have an opinion on what one is better? I'm going to be using my xbox 360 with the HD-DVD add-on and and hopefully a Blu-Ray player (still reading on what one to get).
Thanks, Ryan

The Vizio cant display 1920x1080 over its VGA port, so the Vizio would be pointless for your HD-DVD add on. The westy can get 1080p on all inputs.

The Vizio cant display 1920x1080 over its VGA port, so the Vizio would be pointless for your HD-DVD add on. The westy can get 1080p on all inputs.

I have not been impressed with the smaller-screen Vizio LCDs and plasmas. I've not seen good reviews from 'real' reviewers or commentary on forums like this about 'em either.

In Costco, etc. displays they always seem the worst of the bunch (compared with name brands).

Perhaps some of it is calibration, but some of it appears to be low bit depth. GF got a 20" Sylvania set with 500:1 contrast ratio and its display is not unlike many Vizios.

Westy seems to make a great product and appears serious about the business.
I note that they have a commercial display (signage) line too, which is a good sign
(no pun intended).

The 47" TX set overall vid quality just bowled me over. Given what I've seen of Vizios it's a no-brainer.


Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

i have just heard from a rather knowledgeable source that HDMI does NOT infact have the ability to pass a TRUE FULL 1080p signal, whereas DVI can. so i may be attempting to find an LVM series before they all dissappear. one more reason to hate HDMI.

Bill, it sounds like Westinghouse should hire you to write their USB firmware update feature! :)

Haha, sorry, too busy right now.

And I don't think they have an office here in Silly Valley. (Trident may, however.)

Bill Wiese
San Jose CA

I think I'm going to get the TX-47F430S, If I can find one that is lol, all my Best Buys around me are out of stock :(

I think I'm going to get the TX-47F430S, If I can find one that is lol, all my Best Buys around me are out of stock :(

I would go for it. I had to order mine from my local BB. For the price it's a superb HD pic!!! So far, CSI Miami in 1080i looks the best for me. I have Comcast for a provider.

i have just heard from a rather knowledgeable source that HDMI does NOT infact have the ability to pass a TRUE FULL 1080p signal, whereas DVI can. so i may be attempting to find an LVM series before they all dissappear. one more reason to hate HDMI.

Time to get a source NOT from 2005: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11246_7-6388574-1.html

http://hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/08/hdmi_part_6_-_1.php It is part of the HDMI 1.0 spec as optional... but the HDMI interface is DEFINITELY capable of 1080p and in fact is used in any modern HD DVD/Blue Ray/Xbox 360/PS3/HDTV... etc

Just picked up my TX-42 today. It was cheaper at Best Buy online so I just did in-store pick up (I was able to pick it up within an hour of ordering it), the 4 year PSP ended up being cheaper with the TV on sale too. Overall the set looks amazing. I have a PS3 and a Comcast HD box connected through HDMI. I am having one of the HDMI issues mentioned before. The PS3 menu comes on fine, but when I go to a movie or a game (after the PS3 logo comes up) it flashes black and green, then sometimes goes back to the movie or game and sometimes goes to the blank screen that says HDMI 2 no signal. Then I have to switch through the HDMI inputs to get back to HDMI 2 and it will pick up the signal again. I haven't had it happen yet during a movie or gameplay but it is a bit annoying. Any suggestions?

Time to get a source NOT from 2005: http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-11246_7-6388574-1.html

http://hdtvmagazine.com/articles/2006/08/hdmi_part_6_-_1.php It is part of the HDMI 1.0 spec as optional... but the HDMI interface is DEFINITELY capable of 1080p and in fact is used in any modern HD DVD/Blue Ray/Xbox 360/PS3/HDTV... etc
ok, my fears are abated somewhat. and i suppose in reality, if there were a difference, it is likely not something that would be noticeable unless you looked VERY hard. many specs today are merely academic anyways, but sometimes i cant help but get caught up in numbers.

btw, the BB price on the TX42 is an AMAZING deal.

After thinking about it some more I'm going with the TX-42F430S and with the money I saved I'm going to get a Blu-ray player.

I'll eventually get around to writing up a full review of my unit, but I don't have the time for a bit. Anyway, a few impressions:

First, I've had ZERO problems with my TX-47! I can't find a single dead pixel, and there is only slight mura that isn't noticeable unless the backlight is at 90 or 100 :)

I don't have any HD devices hooked up yet, but my HD cable is looking great!

SD content quality is very good unless you're up close. I've been watching quite a bit of TV and DVD's, and I've been very happy with the quality. Don't notice any distortion to speak of, especially when viewing from a reasonable distance. I also have a Wii that I've been playing (with wrist strap SECURELY fastened ;) ) and I am very happy with how it looks. Compared to its performance on my Dell 2407wfp, I'm extremely pleased. I notice much less distortion from the upscaling on the TX.

So far, I have nothing to complain about and am very very pleased with my purchase. Time to adjust some settings :)

Anyone having problems with PS3 flickering should return their set ASAP. My previous TX-47 had that problem, but it does not occur on my second set. Therefore, there's no reason to stick with a faulty set. Just get it replaced now!

My current set has some banding, but I only notice it when the screen is completely black. During movies and games, it's not noticeable to me at all.

I'm trying to make a quick decision about the 42 inch model of this tv. Can anyone summarize what issues exist with it?

Westy and Trident followed the true spec and shouldn't be blamed -- however I'd bet this blinky top line could be suppressed in a future firmware release. I'll log a call on this tomorrow to see if that can help kickstart this process.


I'm not so sure - one of the problems is that it can vary in "height". I've seen it go from 3 to about 8 pixels high (I think this was Sci-Fi Channel and NBC, respectively, but I could have that reversed). But even if it's too hard/expensive to do it "intelligently", I suppose they could put in a menu option to put x lines of black at the top of the screen...

Ed

i have just heard from a rather knowledgeable source that HDMI does NOT infact have the ability to pass a TRUE FULL 1080p signal, whereas DVI can. so i may be attempting to find an LVM series before they all dissappear. one more reason to hate HDMI.
Cripes, even ISF techs are spreading around this nonsense now? Where do people keep getting this idea? Of course HDMI can pass 1080p. It always could...... from day one. HDMI would be pretty sound all around if it weren't crippled by DRM technologies that harm the consumer like HDCP.

Cripes, even ISF techs are spreading around this nonsense now? Where do people keep getting this idea? Of course HDMI can pass 1080p. It always could...... from day one. HDMI would be pretty sound all around if it weren't crippled by DRM technologies that harm the consumer like HDCP.
turns out i may have been the victim of less than accurate information from a fairly trusted source. it happens. i do however stand behind my belief that HDMI is a poor solution, HDCP or not. the connector is awful, as is the performance over distance. HDCP is just the last nail in the coffin.

Any updates on the 47 inch West power problems? I am about to get either this set or the Philips PLF7432.... both seem to have a few issues (don't they all) - so I'm curious about teh power thing, becasue that seems liek a HUGE one.

Thanks

Any updates on the 47 inch West power problems? I am about to get either this set or the Philips PLF7432.... both seem to have a few issues (don't they all) - so I'm curious about teh power thing, becasue that seems liek a HUGE one.

Thanks
I have not had any power problems. My problem is with the ps3 and the screen flickering durring movie and game playing, but other than that I am very happy with the set.

I'm not so sure - one of the problems is that it can vary in "height". I've seen it go from 3 to about 8 pixels high (I think this was Sci-Fi Channel and NBC, respectively, but I could have that reversed). But even if it's too hard/expensive to do it "intelligently", I suppose they could put in a menu option to put x lines of black at the top of the screen...

Ed

that was actually one of my major issues with the 37" I got. I swear I was seeing it on SD channels too but those are digital here (not HD) so maybe that's why. The only thing I could do to get around it was hit 'fill' which made the image look worse and is not something you want on for all channels.

I just went to BB for price-matching today. I dunno how you guys managed to get those big returns, I only got $57 back...

I updated the firmware on my PS3, bought a new (way too expensive) HDMI cable, and still have the flashing problems. I guess I'll be packing up my TX and hauling it back to Best Buy. Hopefully my replacement won't have the same problems...

turns out i may have been the victim of less than accurate information from a fairly trusted source. it happens. i do however stand behind my belief that HDMI is a poor solution, HDCP or not. the connector is awful, as is the performance over distance. HDCP is just the last nail in the coffin.


I am glad you realize that HDMI isn't absolutely terrible, but I do actually agree with you on its faults: connector, distance performance, and, of course, HDCP. I don't own a single HDMI device, and actually don't plan to for some time.

On the flip side, before I left on vacation (still on vacation, heheh) I did notice some serious VGA "ghosting" issues. This clearly was a cable issue. Everything on screen had a ghosted image. Like, the mouse had a faint "ghost mouse" a good 10-20 pixels to the right just sitting statically on the screen. Does anyone know where to get high quality VGA cables? I have a bunch of different kinds at work that I am going to try out and reimburse if I find one that doesn't ghost, but just in case. This also has me questioning whether it is worth it to get an HDMI>DVI cable instead. I mean, if I'm going to actually buy a new cable I might as well get an all digital solution, right?

Hello.

If someone doesn't mind, can I ask a few easy questions?


1) How well does 1080p work over a DVI -> HDMI cable using a standard desktop graphics card (mine is a ATI 1950XT)? I primarily want to just websurf and play a few games (HL2/Fear/etc)

2) SD looks better on this panel versus the other 42" correct?



I guess that's about it.

I will be using it as a TV (Comcast) + several digital inputs (DVD/360/etc) and I just really want to make sure that PC input over DVI->HDMI looks great.

THANKS GUYS.

It's less than $1200 at BB and I want to go grab one.

THANKS

Hello.

2) SD looks better on this panel versus the other 42" correct?




i cannot speak for the LVM, as i have not seen it in person. however, i did see the TX42 playing SD content that had been split many times via some sort of RJ11 to RF device. it looked pretty good, surprisingly good in fact. certainly no comparison to HD matrerial, but defiantely a picture i could live with.

Thanks. Hopefully PC output as good as well.

Truly, I don't care about SD anymore, but a good deal of content to be watched on the TV will be SD.


Can anyone comment on regular desktop PC output over DVI -> HDMI?

Hello all. I took the plunge today and purchased one of these as my primary tv for the living room to replace a pentranic beast I've had for years.

Now I bought mine at best buy was there another company selling this as well? I've been looking for a westinghouse but I can't find any other retailer selling them.

thanks and I'll keep you posted when my ships in!

Hello all. I took the plunge today and purchased one of these as my primary tv for the living room to replace a pentranic beast I've had for years.

Now I bought mine at best buy was there another company selling this as well? I've been looking for a westinghouse but I can't find any other retailer selling them.

thanks and I'll keep you posted when my ships in!
currently no other retailer has access to these sets. westinghouse and BB have an agreement where BB gets a headstart with their products. within a month or so, they should begin popping up elsewhere.

I am glad you realize that HDMI isn't absolutely terrible, but I do actually agree with you on its faults: connector, distance performance, and, of course, HDCP. I don't own a single HDMI device, and actually don't plan to for some time.

On the flip side, before I left on vacation (still on vacation, heheh) I did notice some serious VGA "ghosting" issues. This clearly was a cable issue. Everything on screen had a ghosted image. Like, the mouse had a faint "ghost mouse" a good 10-20 pixels to the right just sitting statically on the screen. Does anyone know where to get high quality VGA cables? I have a bunch of different kinds at work that I am going to try out and reimburse if I find one that doesn't ghost, but just in case. This also has me questioning whether it is worth it to get an HDMI>DVI cable instead. I mean, if I'm going to actually buy a new cable I might as well get an all digital solution, right?

The ghosting is definitely caused by the poor vga cable. I see that on my lvm 47w1 with one of my lower quality cables. DVI or DVI to HDMI gives me a perfectly sharp image as it should since the signal stays in the digital domain throughout the chain.

I need to buy a TV stand before I buy the TX-42 or TX-47 and I'm wondering what the optimal height is for the stand. Thoughts? Is there a tilt adjustment on the TXs and how good are the viewing angles?

Your eyes should meet the center of the screen. Finding a stand that more or less accomplishes this should be fairly simple.

Anyone having problems with PS3 flickering should return their set ASAP. My previous TX-47 had that problem, but it does not occur on my second set. Therefore, there's no reason to stick with a faulty set. Just get it replaced now!

My current set has some banding, but I only notice it when the screen is completely black. During movies and games, it's not noticeable to me at all.

The question is whether maybe your new TV hasn't flickered yet, rather than the fact that it doesn't flicker at all...? I'm just wondering, because the screen doesn't flicker very often when using the ps3, maybe a couple times per movie, and sometimes it doesn't even flicker at all.. :confused: My last day to return my set to Best Buy is tomorrow, so I sure hope it isn't just a problem with the set I got.. :mad: I'm just having a hard time believing it could be a defect if so many tv's are having this flickering issue..? Maybe it's something that needs to be fixed in the firmware? Maybe it could be the hdmi cables..?

I haven't purchased the extended warranty for this thing, but maybe I should go back there and pick one up.. *sigh*

Any ps3 users use RGB Full? I've been switching back and forth between Limited and Full and can't really decide with my amateurish eyes which is better. I understand it's a matter of personal preference, but I was just curious.
BTW, I LOVE THIS TV!!

:D :D :D


Oh and also, regarding the flickering, I've had the set flicker a few times starting a game, but never had any ingame flickering, or inmovie flickering. Using rocketdog? (rocket-something) hdmi cable.

Can anyone comment on regular desktop PC output over DVI -> HDMI?

Bump!

Bump!

PC usage looks as good as I would expect from the tx47. I have it hooked up to a dvi->hdmi cable and no probs at all. Everything looks razor sharp. I only periodically use this screen as a secondary monitor to look at some pictures and the like.. I don't use it as a dedicated monitor because it's gigantic.

Two quick questions:

1) How does this compare to the Olevia 542i? The biggest plus here is that this is 1080p

2) Someone above mentioned they got 4 yrs PSP for 1.99? I am getting charged $149 for the 4-yr PSP. Is there a special deal that I don't know about?

Two quick questions:

1) How does this compare to the Olevia 542i? The biggest plus here is that this is 1080p

2) Someone above mentioned they got 4 yrs PSP for 1.99? I am getting charged $149 for the 4-yr PSP. Is there a special deal that I don't know about?
That person was referring to the $199 (not $1.99) psp deal BB has for tv's over $1000. The 149 deal you have is for LCDs, which is what everyone should be getting. Buyer Beware, as the BB folks seem to default to the higher priced psp.

nm answered above

so quick funny but not story... Went to Bestbuy to compare this to the 37w3se I got from costco. On comparison I found it to be about the same maybe a bit better as far as blacks and colors, the deinterlacing on it seemed a LOT better and faster than on the 37w3. I wasn't sure if the scaling was any better... the 480i channels over the tuner looked pretty decent. HD wasn't as glorious as it was on the 1080p samsung down below but other than some contrast depth and barely perceptible lag in the picture it was certainly worth saving 800 bucks over the samsung.

On to the funny... first thing I noticed was that the channel the TV was on lookeD HORRIBLE to start with.. as in not worse than everything else by some amount, but like every other HD tv looked good and it just looked like crap. After a bit of research I found out that all the other tvs were using the ATSC tuner on a HD 1080i channel and it was set to an analog channel over the tuner.......... very bright of bestbuy there

I tried to get it go to the same hd channel by entering 067.001 for 67-1 but it wouldn't do it, just static. had a Best Buy drone ask me if I needed help and for the first time in years I dared say yes... 'can you tell me how to get the digital channel they're on up on this ?'

'umm... no.. let me get someone to help you'.

So I sit 15-20 minutes waiting for someone to come over. In the meantime I decide to try the autoscan (which takes a LONG TIME on air channels) because it's a long wait anyway. Eventually some dweeb kid comes over to me and asks if I need help. I said

'Is this one not hooked to the same HD antenna the other ones are because it's tuner isn't picking up the station....' >> I figured it was a new tv so maybe it wasn't hooked up. His response ??

'Oh that one doesn't have a tuner'.....

*poof scratches head* 'it has channel buttons and I can flip through channels, see ?' *I show him remote*. a few minutes of arguing ensue over whether the tv is 'really' tuning channels.. or whether it doesn't have a digital tuner but has some other kind. I said 'It's kinda the law nowadays and every other tv in here with a tuner has an OTA digital tuner too'. Again I get some argument and the kid says he's going to go look it up online.

So he spends 10 minutes sitting at the bestbuy kiosk looking up the TV (verrrrrry knowledgable here folks). Comes back and says 'no it doesn't have that tuner (implying the ATSC over the air). We don't hook them up that way. It has a QAM one where you hook up a coax wire then hook that to an antenna'.

*blink* By now I'm just kinda nodding my head in disbelief hoping he has 'something' smart to say to me. The fact that he just described a makeshift HD ATSC antenna and called it QAM is not comforting nor is the fact I have to spend 10-20 minutes arguing a point that is true for pretty much every HDTV (not monitor) they sell.

Around this time the autoscan finishes and up pops a nice 1080i OTA channel. I switch it to 67-1 and am looking at a very pretty highdef station. The kid mumbles a bit and says something like 'sorry for the misinformation'. He then chuckles nervously and asks is there is anything else he can not help me with (very funny). I told him to go away so I could play with the TV.

Repeat after me ....

' THIS IS WHY WE DON'T LISTEN TO DRONES IN STORES OR TRUST THE SOURCES THEY SEND TVS... AND THIS IS WHY WE MAKE MANUAL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE PICTURE IN THE STORE INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING THEIR IDIOTIC SETTINGS'.

I just bought The TX-47 Wohoo!

I just got it but I don't notice any clouding at all. I mean none!
I haven't really looked closely for dead or stick pixels but none are apparent.
I also notice any mura. I mean this is my first LCD and I have never had to look for this before but from what has been described on this forum I have learned a lot and still can not find any flaws.

The only problem is that when watching baseball games it is stuttering a little but it also did that on this particular channel on my own CRT sometimes. Right now my DVR is hooked up via component and I believe that is what is causing the stuttering, I have HDMI cables on order from monoprice and I expect that to fix the problem. I will see if the Red Sox game (which is on in a few minuted) stutters also because that channel doesn't usually have a problem.

I can't wait for the Avia DVD to come, but the picture looks great already using the settings found in this thread.

I just bought The TX-47 Wohoo!

I just got it but I don't notice any clouding at all. I mean none!
I haven't really looked closely for dead or stick pixels but none are apparent.
I also notice any mura. I mean this is my first LCD and I have never had to look for this before but from what has been described on this forum I have learned a lot and still can not find any flaws.

The only problem is that when watching baseball games it is stuttering a little but it also did that on this particular channel on my own CRT sometimes. Right now my DVR is hooked up via component and I believe that is what is causing the stuttering, I have HDMI cables on order from monoprice and I expect that to fix the problem. I will see if the Red Sox game (which is on in a few minuted) stutters also because that channel doesn't usually have a problem.

I can't wait for the Avia DVD to come, but the picture looks great already using the settings found in this thread.

Do you have cox ? If you do, are you using the motorola 6416 (?) DVR box ? I had problems with the extra 'junk' at the top of the screen with that box and got a very subpar picture on NESN HD for some reason. Since the only HD channel that really looked great was discovery HD I figured it was the box or the cox feeds.

That person was referring to the $199 (not $1.99) psp deal BB has for tv's over $1000. The 149 deal you have is for LCDs, which is what everyone should be getting. Buyer Beware, as the BB folks seem to default to the higher priced psp.


Maybe it varies by state because I paid $199 for mine, and I just checked the website and it says:

"4-Year Performance Service Plan $1500-$1749.99 LCD $199.99"

Do you have cox ? If you do, are you using the motorola 6416 (?) DVR box ? I had problems with the extra 'junk' at the top of the screen with that box and got a very subpar picture on NESN HD for some reason. Since the only HD channel that really looked great was discovery HD I figured it was the box or the cox feeds.

Yes I have Cox and the same DVR as you, but I have no problems with "junk" at the top of the screen.

Oh and BTW there is no stuttering on NESN HD, just YES.

Two questions for people more knowledgeable than I.

Does anyone know if BestBuy B&M stores take returns of tv's purchased from their website?

Is the 4 year PSP in home service on this tv? Everything I have read about this tv has been great, I'm just a bit worried because of Westinghouse's history of requiring customers to mail their tvs in for service.

Two questions for people more knowledgeable than I.

Does anyone know if BestBuy B&M stores take returns of tv's purchased from their website?

Is the 4 year PSP in home service on this tv? Everything I have read about this tv has been great, I'm just a bit worried because of Westinghouse's history of requiring customers to mail their tvs in for service.

I'm not positive about your first question but I would guess the answer would be yes. The second question is defiantly yes. This includes if the TV needs to be replaced they will come to your house and take the old one (if it's wall mounted they will even unmount it for you) and bring the new one (or the repaired one).

Just picked up my TX-42 today. It was cheaper at Best Buy online so I just did in-store pick up (I was able to pick it up within an hour of ordering it), the 4 year PSP ended up being cheaper with the TV on sale too. Overall the set looks amazing.

I just picked my tx-42 as well from best buy but instead of in store pickup i just price matched in store. I decided it was finally time to upgrade my 32w6 for something newer and bigger, so far i am 100% pleased. I was interested in the 47" that i was interested in seeing but no best buy in Orlando had one, but i am very pleased with the 42" esp for the price, im hoping within the net 60 days itll get cheaper so i can get some money back. :p

http://www.layddly.com/gallery/d/10458-2/DSC_1204.JPG

Now i need to buy a new tv stand. :rolleyes:

so quick funny but not story... Went to Bestbuy to compare this to the 37w3se I got from costco. On comparison I found it to be about the same maybe a bit better as far as blacks and colors, the deinterlacing on it seemed a LOT better and faster than on the 37w3. I wasn't sure if the scaling was any better... the 480i channels over the tuner looked pretty decent. HD wasn't as glorious as it was on the 1080p samsung down below but other than some contrast depth and barely perceptible lag in the picture it was certainly worth saving 800 bucks over the samsung.
<snip>
' THIS IS WHY WE DON'T LISTEN TO DRONES IN STORES OR TRUST THE SOURCES THEY SEND TVS... AND THIS IS WHY WE MAKE MANUAL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE PICTURE IN THE STORE INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING THEIR IDIOTIC SETTINGS'.

You know...the cynical side of me says that they did this on purpose to make the Westinghouse look like the "worse" TV. I'm sure they get asked a lot about what the difference between the $2600 and $1800 TV's are. If the pictures happen to look the same, it's probably a lot harder to explain. If the cheaper one looks like crap, it's easier.

It's probably just an honest mistake, but I'd be curious if you went back in a few days/weeks and looked at the TV again if they put it back on the crappier source.

That person was referring to the $199 (not $1.99) psp deal BB has for tv's over $1000. The 149 deal you have is for LCDs, which is what everyone should be getting. Buyer Beware, as the BB folks seem to default to the higher priced psp.

Thanks for all the good info guys. I'll have to swing by the store tomorrow (last day possible for a return) and pick up a 4 yr psp for this tv. I just want to have the luxury of knowing that I won't be stuck w/ a defective set if the hdmi flickering issue is really not a firmware/cable issue. People were originally reporting the psp being $250 for the tx47 from BB, but hopefully I can in fact get it for $150. If not, $199 isn't too bad. Is the $149 price applicable to the tx47 as well, or does it only apply to the tx42 because that falls in a lower price bracket? I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it went. Thanks again!

Thanks for all the good info guys. I'll have to swing by the store tomorrow (last day possible for a return) and pick up a 4 yr psp for this tv. I just want to have the luxury of knowing that I won't be stuck w/ a defective set if the hdmi flickering issue is really not a firmware/cable issue. People were originally reporting the psp being $250 for the tx47 from BB, but hopefully I can in fact get it for $150. If not, $199 isn't too bad. Is the $149 price applicable to the tx47 as well, or does it only apply to the tx42 because that falls in a lower price bracket? I'll let you guys know tomorrow how it went. Thanks again!

The price for PSP for the TX-47 is normally $250, but with the TV on sale this week it falls into the lower price for the service plan thus making it $199.

The price for PSP for the TX-47 is normally $250, but with the TV on sale this week it falls into the lower price for the service plan thus making it $199.

yeah it depends solely on the price, like the tx-42 i bought was on sale for $1169.99 so it put it into the $1000-1250 category for $149.99 instead of the $1250-1500 for 179.99 based on the retail price of $1299.99. i think the 199.99 covers 1500-1750 or 2000 but i am not positive.

I own a 37w3 and was looking to upgrade to the tx 47.
by any chance can anyone post pics of the 47 to get an idea of the size
thanks)

Hello.

If someone doesn't mind, can I ask a few easy questions?


1) How well does 1080p work over a DVI -> HDMI cable using a standard desktop graphics card (mine is a ATI 1950XT)? I primarily want to just websurf and play a few games (HL2/Fear/etc)

2) SD looks better on this panel versus the other 42" correct?



I guess that's about it.

I will be using it as a TV (Comcast) + several digital inputs (DVD/360/etc) and I just really want to make sure that PC input over DVI->HDMI looks great.

THANKS GUYS.

It's less than $1200 at BB and I want to go grab one.

THANKS
I have a ATI Radeon X1900xt hooked up via dvi-hdmi addapter and there seems to be a slight problem with the resolutions on the tv. I don't know it is a driver issue or what but when I set the resolution to 1920x1080@60hz, the image doesn't fill the entire screen and when I streach the image it is too big (overfills the screen). In fact, all the resoulutions that I set it to do that. The image also has a slight red color bleed to the right that I think has been shown on this site before, but if you are not sitting right in front of the screen it is not really noticable.

This is to update my flickering PS3 issue.

I was able to barrow my neighbors PS3 and his HDMI cable to check if it is the tv that has the problem, or the cable, or the PS3. I can affirmatively say that the problem is the tv.
1. I used my cable and his ps3, got flickering.
2. I used his cable and his ps3, got flickering.
3. I used his cable and my ps3, got flickering.

I called Westinghouse and they said that they have never heard of this problem before (they are good at staying in the dark when it comes to wide spread problems. I am a previous LVM-42w2 owner.) They said that they would get back to me in a few days after the guy who took my phone call sent the problem to their engineering department (I have also been told that before). I will stay on top of them until they tell me to exchange it or can tell me that they can update the firmware somehow. I will keep you all posted.

This is to update my flickering PS3 issue.

I was able to barrow my neighbors PS3 and his HDMI cable to check if it is the tv that has the problem, or the cable, or the PS3. I can affirmatively say that the problem is the tv.
1. I used my cable and his ps3, got flickering.
2. I used his cable and his ps3, got flickering.
3. I used his cable and my ps3, got flickering.

I called Westinghouse and they said that they have never heard of this problem before (they are good at staying in the dark when it comes to wide spread problems. I am a previous LVM-42w2 owner.) They said that they would get back to me in a few days after the guy who took my phone call sent the problem to their engineering department (I have also been told that before). I will stay on top of them until they tell me to exchange it or can tell me that they can update the firmware somehow. I will keep you all posted.
I just called Westinghouse again. The engineering department has not got back to the call center as of yet(big surprize). He asked me what troubleshooting steps I have taken to fix the issue. I told him about my ps3 test and cable test and he asked me if I did a factory reset through the menu options, or a complete power shut down were you unplug the unit for a min of 20sec. I told him no and would try it tonight. I will post tonight if either one of these troubleshooting options work.

I just called Westinghouse again. The engineering department has not got back to the call center as of yet(big surprize). He asked me what troubleshooting steps I have taken to fix the issue. I told him about my ps3 test and cable test and he asked me if I did a factory reset through the menu options, or a complete power shut down were you unplug the unit for a min of 20sec. I told him no and would try it tonight. I will post tonight if either one of these troubleshooting options work.

Should probably go ahead and exchange the set, it sounds like a hardware issue :(

Sorry about the psp (mis)info. The 149.99 I paid was because I got the 42 on sale, and so I fell into that lower price bracket.

I do, however, have a general question. What kind of power protection are you all using? I'm using a Radioshack surge protector, but would it be worthwhile to upgrade to something nicer? This is the first real expensive piece of AV equiptment I've owned, and I'd rather it didn't get screwed up/ look worse than it could.

RE: Power protection

I bought 2 of these:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=UPS-650-BLK&cat=UPS&cpc=UPSbsc

or you could get one of these:
http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=SS1200&cpc=RECOM

Crappy $5 Surge protectors from Wal-mart or Home depot won't do you any good on most of these things. You want some sort of Power conditioner or battery backup. The first one will give you 3minutes of power to shutdown your equipment gracefully. The latter will keep a steady stream of power to your devices and prevent voltage fluctuation (power cleaning).

There are better ones out there but those 2 will do for now.


If your surge protector comes with one of those 100k warranty's youll be ok. If not then I wouldn't hook your X thousand dollar units up to it even though you got a warranty.

Should probably go ahead and exchange the set, it sounds like a hardware issue :(
If the reset and or power off dosn't work I will. I will post again tonight to update.

I just bought The TX-47 Wohoo!

I just got it but I don't notice any clouding at all. I mean none!
I haven't really looked closely for dead or stick pixels but none are apparent.
I also notice any mura. I mean this is my first LCD and I have never had to look for this before but from what has been described on this forum I have learned a lot and still can not find any flaws.

The only problem is that when watching baseball games it is stuttering a little but it also did that on this particular channel on my own CRT sometimes. Right now my DVR is hooked up via component and I believe that is what is causing the stuttering, I have HDMI cables on order from monoprice and I expect that to fix the problem. I will see if the Red Sox game (which is on in a few minuted) stutters also because that channel doesn't usually have a problem.

I can't wait for the Avia DVD to come, but the picture looks great already using the settings found in this thread.
What is the software version and Build-on date of your set?

I just called Westinghouse again. The engineering department has not got back to the call center as of yet(big surprize).

Yeah, I'm not holding my breath for the engineering dept either... I called the other week about the no 5.1 via the internal tuner issue and it was supposedly forwarded to engineering. I periodically call Westinhouse to follow up but they always say engineering hasn't gotten back to them.

We can only hope that "engineering department" isn't just a codename for "garbage can" and that there really are people over there looking at how to improve on some of the issues.

I have a ATI Radeon X1900xt hooked up via dvi-hdmi addapter and there seems to be a slight problem with the resolutions on the tv. I don't know it is a driver issue or what but when I set the resolution to 1920x1080@60hz, the image doesn't fill the entire screen and when I streach the image it is too big (overfills the screen). In fact, all the resoulutions that I set it to do that. The image also has a slight red color bleed to the right that I think has been shown on this site before, but if you are not sitting right in front of the screen it is not really noticable.

this is a problem related to the ATI drivers and NOT the Tv. i had the same issue with a 1900xtx card...but when i put in a Nvidia card...the problems disappeared. ATI has a driver overscan problem. There are some workarounds (ie setting the refresh to 75 mhz). i've attached a link regarding the subject and a link to a reg edit that worked for me. (backup your registry before trying the fix)

http://209.218.200.18/ht/FixMyUnderscan.exe

AVS thread regarding the ATI problem - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729041&page=5&pp=30

this is a problem related to the ATI drivers and NOT the Tv. i had the same issue with a 1900xtx card...but when i put in a Nvidia card...the problems disappeared. ATI has a driver overscan problem. There are some workarounds (ie setting the refresh to 75 mhz). i've attached a link regarding the subject and a link to a reg edit that worked for me. (backup your registry before trying the fix)

http://209.218.200.18/ht/FixMyUnderscan.exe

AVS thread regarding the ATI problem - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=729041&page=5&pp=30
Thanks, I figured it was a driver problem.

I Have posted earlier in this thread about the ATI issue. Simply Downgrade your drivers and catalyst to version 7.1. After the downgrade make sure you set your refresh rate to 75hz (Its a glitch in the software and therefore still runs at the supported 60hz) Works great for me.

The question is whether maybe your new TV hasn't flickered yet, rather than the fact that it doesn't flicker at all...? I'm just wondering, because the screen doesn't flicker very often when using the ps3, maybe a couple times per movie, and sometimes it doesn't even flicker at all.. :confused: My last day to return my set to Best Buy is tomorrow, so I sure hope it isn't just a problem with the set I got.. :mad: I'm just having a hard time believing it could be a defect if so many tv's are having this flickering issue..? Maybe it's something that needs to be fixed in the firmware? Maybe it could be the hdmi cables..?

I haven't purchased the extended warranty for this thing, but maybe I should go back there and pick one up.. *sigh*


No.... my previous set was clearly defective. I've watched multiple movies/recorded Tivo shows and played video games with NO flickering or loss of signal. I don't understand why you wouldn't return it.

I Have posted earlier in this thread about the ATI issue. Simply Downgrade your drivers and catalyst to version 7.1. After the downgrade make sure you set your refresh rate to 75hz (Its a glitch in the software and therefore still runs at the supported 60hz) Works great for me.
What about when you are playing a game, does this fix that too? Most games don't have the option to set the refreshrate to 75 hz.

Catalyst has an option where you can set the refresh rate to be the same as the desktop or you can force it to be on 75hz. Either one should fix it. Just make sure your selecting a proportionate resolution while in the game. Only works with driver versions 6.2 and 7.1. (Ati is aware of the issue and is looking into fixing the underscan/overscan issue in the July release).

I will be using it as a TV (Comcast) + several digital inputs (DVD/360/etc) and I just really want to make sure that PC input over DVI->HDMI looks great.
THANKS

Well, I have the 47, but yeah, PC input over DVI->HDMI is awesome, given a half-decent vid card.

Ed

I have an X1950XT 256MB. It's like the 3rd or 4th best DirectX 9 card on the market.

Planning on getting a GTS 640MB soon probably

The set displays the output from my Geforce GO 7800 GTX laptop beautifully over a 15' HDMI cable + HDMI/DVI adapter from monoprice.

Finally all done with my setup. I'm very pleased with the unit.

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z252/bidzer/DSC_5426.jpg

Has anyone tried a HD-DVD or BR with this unit? I would like to see what people have to say.

Thanks

I just go my TX a day ago, but I'm having an issue with it. I had an HDMI Xbox 360 Elite hooked up to HDMI-1, and set to output audio digitally to the TV, but the speakers are reversed (i.e right audio plays through TV's left side). HDMI-2 works fine for it, but still, I'd be nice if all the inputs work. Anyone have any thoughts?

Finally all done with my setup. I'm very pleased with the unit.
bidzer,
Would you please identify the make and model of your stand. It looks nice.

No.... my previous set was clearly defective. I've watched multiple movies/recorded Tivo shows and played video games with NO flickering or loss of signal. I don't understand why you wouldn't return it.

The point is that if 50% of sets have this issue, I don't like my chances of getting a "non-defective" set. The other reason is that I'm very busy lately and don't feel like lugging the thing back, etc. I'll just pick up a psp, and if a problem is identified or it continues, I will get it replaced.

Ok, I was just saying that sometimes it works flawlessly. Other times it's a pita. Last night I watched layer cake and it flickered a couple times and dropped out once.

For anybody who was still mildly curious I was able to solve the mystery of exactly which scaler is in use for the TX series: http://www.betanews.com/newswire/pr/Tridents_HiDTVTM_Pro_Powers_Westinghouses_New_Family_of_Larg eScreen_1080p_LCD_TVs/68287

This brings up some pretty big questions my part. Let's start by going over a few things the HiDTV chipset is capable of doing: PIP/POP/Splitscreen capability, 3D adaptive noise reduction functions, full 16-bit OSD engine, extensive color/gamma/RGB controls...... I could go on. This is a SOC solution (system on chip) which means basically they should be able to toss it in the tv and go. The single Thompson ATSC tuner and hub design for the HDMI ports appear to have been done purely for cost cutting purposes in light of this. This is good news in that for most sources, be they dvd players, game systems, whatever the tv itself is probably going to be the superior scaler and deinterlacer. This is always a good thing to have since it offers component flexibility and you don't have to worry over needing to buy better equipment to "get the best performance" out of the tv. In fact for dvd players unless you have a Denon or other premium model I would output 480i or 480p rather than try to rely on the player's scaling abilities. The TV will most likely do a better job.

On the other side of the fence I am simply blown away at how badly Westinghouse has under-utilized this chipset. Especially the noise reduction and advanced color features. That calibration menu could have been fleshed out with cut and gain controls for individual R/G/B channels to let the inclined user truly dial in their set with great color accuracy, and why leave out any kind of noise reduction options when the processor has support for the functions built right into it?

I can only assume that it's a small engineering staff and they simply decided to take a lean approach to developing features in order to save time. Either that or they are planning to release a higher end model series that basically turns all of these features on in much the same way companies like Mitsubishi have multiple models of the same panel which merely add features for the added price.

At any rate, I wasn't expecting the Trident processor to be this high-end. In terms of pure video performance this makes the TX series a sleeper in terms of picture quality. I'd take this Trident chipset over the ATI Xilleon in the Sony XBR sets any day of the week.

Finally all done with my setup. I'm very pleased with the unit.


Has anyone tried a HD-DVD or BR with this unit? I would like to see what people have to say.

Thanks

I am no expert on AV stuff but my refurbed HD-A2 and the TX-42F430S produce just an exceptional and nearly three dimensional image -- really the best I have ever seen in HD (granted I have only seen Costco, Sams Club, Best Buy and Future Shop type HDTV retail displays. I know the A20 would be a bit better DVD player for a 1080p panel but I don't want to spend too much on HD playback devices until the whole format war is resolved in some manner.

I have only had time view the first part of the first disk of the BBC Planet Earth HD-DVD and a bit of a Porco Rosso DVD (it of course being animation looked totally great too).

I don't have the Dish HD package on my ViP622 receiver but OTA HD through the 622 looks fine. I need to compare the 622's image with the built in TX-42F430S tuner.

I need a newer laptop to test with as my older Dell running vista can't seem to do 1080 x 1920 resolution, but at lower resolution the panel looks fine.

I bought the TV on sale on line for in store pickup from Best Buy. I am not sure if I will keep it though. I am tempted to spend a bit more and mail order a Toshiba Regza 42HL167 or conversely save considerable cash and get a recertified mail order Olevia 337h . It is too bad SDTV looks so marginal on LCD's - but man does HD-DVD look great on the TX-42F430S.

Farking hysterical and all too common, and not just at BB. Fry's is so bad I find myself taking people aside after a misinformation session with one of their PhD candidate associates to straighten them out. Of course, I guess people who don't do research in the age of the Internet and walk in blind and ask a minimum wage employee technical questions deserve what they get. My favorite is the "you need faster RAM" upsell.

Questions:

1) Should one risk delivery of this TV from BB? Getting one in person would be a lot of driving in a vehicle not designed for it.

2) Assuming that we should not trust the delivery monkeys, can this TV be safely laid on its back in the package during transit?

3) Why are people doing the BB warranty thing? I thought those extended-profit contracts were to be avoided at all costs, with the possible exception of DLP.

4) How do you get discounts from BB? I have AAA.

so quick funny but not story... Went to Bestbuy to compare this to the 37w3se I got from costco. On comparison I found it to be about the same maybe a bit better as far as blacks and colors, the deinterlacing on it seemed a LOT better and faster than on the 37w3. I wasn't sure if the scaling was any better... the 480i channels over the tuner looked pretty decent. HD wasn't as glorious as it was on the 1080p samsung down below but other than some contrast depth and barely perceptible lag in the picture it was certainly worth saving 800 bucks over the samsung.

On to the funny... first thing I noticed was that the channel the TV was on lookeD HORRIBLE to start with.. as in not worse than everything else by some amount, but like every other HD tv looked good and it just looked like crap. After a bit of research I found out that all the other tvs were using the ATSC tuner on a HD 1080i channel and it was set to an analog channel over the tuner.......... very bright of bestbuy there

I tried to get it go to the same hd channel by entering 067.001 for 67-1 but it wouldn't do it, just static. had a Best Buy drone ask me if I needed help and for the first time in years I dared say yes... 'can you tell me how to get the digital channel they're on up on this ?'

'umm... no.. let me get someone to help you'.

So I sit 15-20 minutes waiting for someone to come over. In the meantime I decide to try the autoscan (which takes a LONG TIME on air channels) because it's a long wait anyway. Eventually some dweeb kid comes over to me and asks if I need help. I said

'Is this one not hooked to the same HD antenna the other ones are because it's tuner isn't picking up the station....' >> I figured it was a new tv so maybe it wasn't hooked up. His response ??

'Oh that one doesn't have a tuner'.....

*poof scratches head* 'it has channel buttons and I can flip through channels, see ?' *I show him remote*. a few minutes of arguing ensue over whether the tv is 'really' tuning channels.. or whether it doesn't have a digital tuner but has some other kind. I said 'It's kinda the law nowadays and every other tv in here with a tuner has an OTA digital tuner too'. Again I get some argument and the kid says he's going to go look it up online.

So he spends 10 minutes sitting at the bestbuy kiosk looking up the TV (verrrrrry knowledgable here folks). Comes back and says 'no it doesn't have that tuner (implying the ATSC over the air). We don't hook them up that way. It has a QAM one where you hook up a coax wire then hook that to an antenna'.

*blink* By now I'm just kinda nodding my head in disbelief hoping he has 'something' smart to say to me. The fact that he just described a makeshift HD ATSC antenna and called it QAM is not comforting nor is the fact I have to spend 10-20 minutes arguing a point that is true for pretty much every HDTV (not monitor) they sell.

Around this time the autoscan finishes and up pops a nice 1080i OTA channel. I switch it to 67-1 and am looking at a very pretty highdef station. The kid mumbles a bit and says something like 'sorry for the misinformation'. He then chuckles nervously and asks is there is anything else he can not help me with (very funny). I told him to go away so I could play with the TV.

Repeat after me ....

' THIS IS WHY WE DON'T LISTEN TO DRONES IN STORES OR TRUST THE SOURCES THEY SEND TVS... AND THIS IS WHY WE MAKE MANUAL ADJUSTMENTS TO THE PICTURE IN THE STORE INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING THEIR IDIOTIC SETTINGS'.

I can only assume that it's a small engineering staff and they simply decided to take a lean approach to developing features in order to save time. Either that or they are planning to release a higher end model series that basically turns all of these features on in much the same way companies like Mitsubishi have multiple models of the same panel which merely add features for the added price.

i may be able to shed some light on this. the TX series and Westys current Pro line are basically the same thing. the TX has just been "detuned" so to speak. the pro model utilizes it's USB port for advanced control (i.e. crestron, amx, etc), and has adapters for RS-232, as well as RJ45, though the USB port is physically wired diferently between the two, so the TX is not capable of utilizing this even with a software upgrade. The Pro model has a very advanced menu from what i could see as well. other than that, they appear to be identical units; same panel, same cabinet, same connectors, same (almost) hardware. biggest difference is price, though i could not get specific pro pricing, i am sure it is significantly higher. i have a feeling that the TX is capable of quite a bit more than what the end user sees.