I haven't been able to find a defined post talking about this issue but I have seen it mentioned at least once in most large threads pertaining to the new 1.80 firmware for the PS3.

For those who may not know, there is currently an issue with the RGB: Full setting that causes it to revert back to Limited upon doing a number of things, such as playing a DVD, playing a PS1/PS2 game, or power cycling the console. Some even have mentioned the problem occuring when exiting a PS3 game or Blu-ray as well. It is also worth noting that the setting may actually say FULL, but you can tell by the brightness level that it is not.

I made a post on the PS Underground forums as well ... hopefully people will take notice and Sony will get a hotfix on the way.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=1548650

PLEASE reply to this if you've encountered this issue. Thanks!

I haven't been able to find a defined post talking about this issue but I have seen it mentioned at least once in most large threads pertaining to the new 1.80 firmware for the PS3.

For those who may not know, there is currently an issue with the RGB: Full setting that causes it to revert back to Limited upon doing a number of things, such as playing a DVD, playing a PS1/PS2 game, or power cycling the console. Some even have mentioned the problem occuring when exiting a PS3 game or Blu-ray as well. It is also worth noting that the setting may actually say FULL, but you can tell by the brightness level that it is not.

I made a post on the PS Underground forums as well ... hopefully people will take notice and Sony will get a hotfix on the way.

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=1548650

PLEASE reply to this if you've encountered this issue. Thanks!

Hardset your BD/DVD Output Format settings (to RGB), and see what happens.

Yeah, mine stays on Full, but I can tell it isn't, and I have to switch to Limited, then back to Full to get the effect again.

Hardset your BD/DVD Output Format settings (to RGB), and see what happens.

Oh, good idea. I'll try when I get home.

I'll double check when I get home from work in about an hour, but I'm fairly certain my BD setting is already on RGB. Thanks for the tip though.

I'll double check when I get home from work in about an hour, but I'm fairly certain my BD setting is already on RGB. Thanks for the tip though.
Conversely, you could set it to Auto (BD/DVD Output Format) and make sure Super White is enabled (along with RGB Full), that way, when it switches to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr, it shouldn't clip the signal (theoretically).

On a side note, Super White also enables x.v.YCC support (http://www.us.playstation.com/ps3/network/updates/PS3_180_update.html#SuperWhite) for AVCHD disc.

My issues with RGB Full/Limited:

With RGB limited, everything including the XMB, trailers, games, and movies all look fine. Brightness levels are perfect as verified by numerous test patterns and DVE. The ONLY issue is that BTB and WTW are not displayed in this mode.

With RGB Full, the XMB and downloaded trailers immediately get darker and there is noticeable black crush. I enter a blu-ray movie or a DVD and everything reverts to back to normal and BTB and WTW are present in all test patterns (this is good). I exit the movie playback and the XMB and all trailers have reverted back to the setting where there is no black crush.

So in my case at least, there seems to be two issues here. One regarding the setting not sticking and the other regarding the fact that movies have a different black level setup than the XMB/games/trailers.

As a side note, I have the HDMI input on my TV (Mitsubishi WD-52725) calibrated using DVE and a Pioneer 59avi. The 59avi is putting out full video RGB levels and passes BTB/WTW. The fact that movies play properly with RGB Full leads me to believe that outside movies, something else is being left uncompensated.

I'll give that a try for my Blu-ray movies, but I don't think that's going to solve the problem with PS/PS2 games.

-Newb on this stuff.

I have my PS3 hooked up to my pearl. I use it for games and BDs. I have it hooked up through HDMI, so I want to know, do I set video output to RGB or Y Pb or Auto? Do I turn on Cross Color Reduction Filter? What about RGB Full(sounds like it's not working properly now)? Lastly, it sounds like Super White should be on.

Thanks

-Newb on this stuff.

I have my PS3 hooked up to my pearl. I use it for games and BDs. I have it hooked up through HDMI, so I want to know, do I set video output to RGB or Y Pb or Auto? Do I turn on Cross Color Reduction Filter? What about RGB Full(sounds like it's not working properly now)? Lastly, it sounds like Super White should be on.

Thanks
I'm inclined not to help you out pure jealousy. :D

You're going to have to experiment a bit and determine what looks best to your eye's (on your display). Except for Cross Color Reduction, that should definitely be off. Unless you're running a composite or S-video cable to your Pearl. In which case, you don’t even deserve it!

Try setting BD/DVD Video Output Format to Auto, to start with. At that point, begin experimenting with the RGB Full/Limited setting using different source material (XMB, PS3 games, BDs, etc). Then hardset the Output Format to something (RGB or Y Pb / Cb Pr / Cr), using the same settings. Try it all again with Super White. Some settings you can probably eliminate immediately. Others might take a keen eye to decide. It would be a good idea to have a DVE and/or Avia disc handy, as well. Good luck. Please let us know your results.

Not to sound daft, but what's a Pearl? Is it the valuable gem found in oysters? The Blackberry device? So confused! ;)

Not to sound daft, but what's a Pearl? Is it the valuable gem found in oysters? The Blackberry device? So confused! ;)

A Sony projector.

My issues with RGB Full/Limited:

With RGB limited, everything including the XMB, trailers, games, and movies all look fine. Brightness levels are perfect as verified by numerous test patterns and DVE. The ONLY issue is that BTB and WTW are not displayed in this mode.

With RGB Full, the XMB and downloaded trailers immediately get darker and there is noticeable black crush. I enter a blu-ray movie or a DVD and everything reverts to back to normal and BTB and WTW are present in all test patterns (this is good). I exit the movie playback and the XMB and all trailers have reverted back to the setting where there is no black crush.

So in my case at least, there seems to be two issues here. One regarding the setting not sticking and the other regarding the fact that movies have a different black level setup than the XMB/games/trailers.

As a side note, I have the HDMI input on my TV (Mitsubishi WD-52725) calibrated using DVE and a Pioneer 59avi. The 59avi is putting out full video RGB levels and passes BTB/WTW. The fact that movies play properly with RGB Full leads me to believe that outside movies, something else is being left uncompensated.

It is a given now that the PS3 outputs different levels for dashboard/menu/games/downloaded movies and Blu-ray discs. Before the 1.80 firmware, only the Blu-ray output could be adjusted.

On my HDTV before the 1.80 firmware, I had to adjust the brightness between settings of 25 and 40 as I had my Blu-ray output set to component instead of RGB (for the best results on my HDTV). Now, after the 1.80 firmware has added the option for RGB limited/full for dashboard/menu/games/downloaded movies I can set it to full on for my HDTV at leave the brightness setting at 40 for both menu/games and Blu-ray movies. I love this feature. I was going to suggest it after the Xbox 360 update that added something similar for HDMI on the elite called Reference Level (low, mid, high). The 360 had difference output levels between games/dashboard and HD DVD movies and I had to change my HDTV's brightness level back and forth between 25 and 40 - now I don't. Obviously I don't anymore for the PS3. My Oppo HD970 is fine at 40 too. The only device I have left that will require a 25 setting is my DirecTV H20 sat. receiver that sadly doesn't have such a RGB/Reference Level adjustment.

Way to go Sony and Microsoft on these very helpful settings!

You guys should post your tv/projector type to see if we can narrow it down to models of tv.

Mine is a Sony V2500 lcd - no problems

You guys should post your tv/projector type to see if we can narrow it down to models of tv.

Mine is a Sony V2500 lcd - no problems


I'm using a Samsung HL-S5679W DLP. Will have to see if the RGB Full setting 'sticks' or not. The lady of the house is watching The Queen on Blu-ray right now but will check it when she's finished.

I'm seeing this problem with a Sharp AQUOS LC-46D62U

I experience this bug on a Mitsubishi HD1000 projector.

I'm not concerned though, as the RGB Limited option (pre 1.8 FW) has been working fine for me since day one.

Not to sound daft, but what's a Pearl? Is it the valuable gem found in oysters? The Blackberry device? So confused! ;)

This (http://www.sonystyle.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/eCS/Store/en/-/USD/SY_DisplayProductInformation-Start?ProductSKU=VPLVW50) is the Pearl. :)

My settings seem to be holding.

I'm using a Samsung HL-S5679W DLP. Will have to see if the RGB Full setting 'sticks' or not. The lady of the house is watching The Queen on Blu-ray right now but will check it when she's finished.

I've experienced the bug when playing PS2 games. RGB setting reset to limited even though the menu shows it to be full. Only way to get it back is to change from full to limited and then back again on the PS3. Power cycling the console may cause it, will have to test more. I left a PS2 game in the drive after powering off the console. I hit eject to get the disc out and when the PS3 came on, it was in RGB limited mode again (even though the menu setting still showed it to be full <-very important point here: menu shows one thing, actual output it something else).

it's actually possible also while the setting seem to revert back to what "limited" looks like, it is still on Full RGB when playing movies even though xmb dashboard shows otherwise.

You guys should post your tv/projector type to see if we can narrow it down to models of tv.

Mine is a Sony V2500 lcd - no problems


Odd, my v2500 appears to be suffering from the limited XMB after leaving a BD/DVD. :confused:

Odd, my v2500 appears to be suffering from the limited XMB after leaving a BD/DVD. :confused:


Wow...

Question, how are you connecting your ps3 to your tv? Mine is through a yamaha receiver, all through hdmi. I confirmed that upon restart of the ps3 that I still have the darker black levels of the full option.

If this is true, then the problem may not be because of simply tv models, but maybe because of something else.

I can confirm now that I do not have this 'bug'.
Got to my PS3 today, menu still lists full, I switched it to limited, and indeed, everything got lighter again.

I think it may be an HDMI issue. HDMI can do some funky things.

I think it may be an HDMI issue. HDMI can do some funky things.

Amen on that.

it's actually possible also while the setting seem to revert back to what "limited" looks like, it is still on Full RGB when playing movies even though xmb dashboard shows otherwise.

Just tried a DVD, and I can confirm this. It says, "Full", but isn't outputting that. Selecting Limited, then Full puts it back, and you can see a big difference.

I have this problem as well, and 'hardsetting' it to RGB instead of Automatic doesn't appear to solve it for me. Quite annoying. Like the others have said here, you go to the menu and it says Full but is clearly not outputting Full anymore.

Wow...

Question, how are you connecting your ps3 to your tv? Mine is through a yamaha receiver, all through hdmi. I confirmed that upon restart of the ps3 that I still have the darker black levels of the full option.

If this is true, then the problem may not be because of simply tv models, but maybe because of something else.

Video is sent through HDMI directly to the TV. When I refer to the "bug" I'm talking about the "hazy" menu after leaving a BD/DVD, and the menu still reading Full.

So when you apply Full, start a BD, and exit to the XMB it still looks darker than before? Have you confirmed that it's still full by turning it to limited and back?

edit: Oh, and what are your settings for RGB/YCrCb in BD/DVD playback? maybe I can try your settings and see if it makes a difference.

I played around for a while earlier and it seems it doesn't matter what I do, my PS3 reverts back to Limited. It's happening for me when entering AND exiting though (PS3 games do it when exiting, everything else when entering).

I have a Samsung HLS4266W 42" DLP and I'm connecting via HDMI, using a Phillips HDMI cable from Walmart.

Video is sent through HDMI directly to the TV. When I refer to the "bug" I'm talking about the "hazy" menu after leaving a BD/DVD, and the menu still reading Full.

So when you apply Full, start a BD, and exit to the XMB it still looks darker than before? Have you confirmed that it's still full by turning it to limited and back?

edit: Oh, and what are your settings for RGB/YCrCb in BD/DVD playback? maybe I can try your settings and see if it makes a difference.

When I restart the ps3, it is the blacker level. I check by turning it to limiited & back. It's pretty obvious because the xmb screen is almost gray on limited.

I haven't tried just exiting a BD and seeing if it's the blacker level. I'll need to go home to check that.

Dont think the dvd settings will make a difference. Off the top of my head I dont know what it's set at. I do have it running at 1080p, no noise reduction, full or standard. I have the superwhite or whatever turned on. I left the 24hz thing to auto. I'll have to go home to confirm the setting sthough.

When I restart the ps3, it is the blacker level. I check by turning it to limiited & back. It's pretty obvious because the xmb screen is almost gray on limited.

I haven't tried just exiting a BD and seeing if it's the blacker level. I'll need to go home to check that.

Dont think the dvd settings will make a difference. Off the top of my head I dont know what it's set at. I do have it running at 1080p, no noise reduction, full or standard. I have the superwhite or whatever turned on. I left the 24hz thing to auto. I'll have to go home to confirm the setting sthough.

I only restarted my ps3 once since the update, and the xmb was definately in "full"... I seem to only get the limited look when exiting a BD/DVD (haven't tried a ps/ps2/ps3 game yet). My understanding is that the superwhite setting only effects BD/DVD playback when set as YCrCb. I'll be going through the different options tomorrow.

I can confirm I have the problem as well....

Sharp LC46D92U

I work in the gaming media and I've just alerted them to this problem and linked to this thread. Hopefully they can fix this soon. As far as I'm concerned this is an awesome firmware update and this bug is the only blemish. Need this fixed ASAP.

I only restarted my ps3 once since the update, and the xmb was definately in "full"... I seem to only get the limited look when exiting a BD/DVD (haven't tried a ps/ps2/ps3 game yet). My understanding is that the superwhite setting only effects BD/DVD playback when set as YCrCb. I'll be going through the different options tomorrow.


BTW I dont think Im connected through RGB either. Mine is the yCrCb too.

for me, RGB full makes my DVD/Blu-Ray fine, but games and the XMB lowers the brightness by about 7-8 notches. also, when i play a blu-ray/dvd and exit back to the xmb, it stays at full in the settings, but i can tell its at limited. but when i launch a game, it goes back to full, and when i exit to XMB, it stays full. so the only thing that changes for me is the XMB changes if i play a movie and/or game.

using Limited, i can't see the dropdown shadow behind the THX logo in the THX optimizer. when set to full, i can see it. not a big deal, so i'm sticking with Limited for now.

what exactly does this mode offer? I don't understand what it does.....

I'll go try it later tonight but can someone let me know what it actually is doing when I enable it to FULL?

what exactly does this mode offer? I don't understand what it does.....

I'll go try it later tonight but can someone let me know what it actually is doing when I enable it to FULL?
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6518381&postcount=1422

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=6518381&postcount=1422

Thanks.. so... I guess I won't bother. games and blu-ray already look amazing. I was just wondering.

having the same issues. exiting a game, power cycling ps3, even putting in movie, it is stil evident that it reverted back to limited. sony definitely needs a fix to that.

sharp lc37d62u

it's actually not just upon exiting, it reverts back to Limited when the BD/game loads. so right now even tho the option is available to turn on full rgb, we can actually never use it while watching a bd movie. i've not tested on dvds yet, but watching Last Samurai tonight i noticed many of the darker colors seem a bit hazy.

after finishing the movie i went to turn Full back on, and watched the trailer of Casino Royale i downloaded from PSstore. watching videos in the xmb is actually the only way to see what things look like under Full RGB. i tried watching the trailer on both Full and Limited, blacks and darker scenes looked a lot better with RGB set to full.

this issue will need to be fixed and i will probably have to rewatch some of my movies.

I only restarted my ps3 once since the update, and the xmb was definately in "full"... I seem to only get the limited look when exiting a BD/DVD (haven't tried a ps/ps2/ps3 game yet). My understanding is that the superwhite setting only effects BD/DVD playback when set as YCrCb. I'll be going through the different options tomorrow.

Just confirmed that mine does the same.

I'm using a xbr46 bravia
When I turn on my ps3 I have to reset the full setting
when I exit a blu-ray/dvd/ps2/ps1 game I have to reset the full setting
when I exit a ps3 game disc, downloaded game, downloaded trailer, the setting sticks

I attribute this to bad QC work on Sony's end and hope, but hardly expect them to fix it with the next update, which should be right now, but I fear it will be a month away

Happy that this setting is here, but want it to work right

crazy

I just wanted to contribute to this thread.
I have a samsung hl-s5087w DLP.
My display settings are --> Automatic
1080p24 --> Off (because my TV only supports 60 Hz)
Super White --> On
RGB FULL.

No problems here. Everything stays on just fine.

mine also stays on even after a power cycle.
I'm leaving mine at limited though for the games. At full it is far too dark and I don't want to have to adjust it for games and movies.

I still contend that RGB full should behave the same way across the board for the XMB and blu-ray movies/DVDs... it clearly does not. RGB limited seems to... if RGB full just puts out more levels, the reference point should still be the same for both.

are you guys sure it stays on for you guys, for me it still says "full" in the settings, but it had actually switched back to limited, if you turn it off and back on again you notice a difference, are you saying that after rebooting or exiting a movie the xmb looks the same as when you go and trun off the full setting and turn it back on?

I'm not saying your wrong, I just want to make sure you are right so that we can be as accurate about this as possible

I still contend that RGB full should behave the same way across the board for the XMB and blu-ray movies/DVDs... it clearly does not. RGB limited seems to... if RGB full just puts out more levels, the reference point should still be the same for both.

So what your saying is that with RGB Full on, the XMB should retain the same overall brightness?

Maybe RGB Full isn't properly enabled until a BD/DVD is started, which would explain the XMB returning to what it looked like before FW 1.8

Does anyone have a test that can be performed to see if the XMB is passing BTB and WTW before and after starting a BD/DVD?

http://www.us.playstation.com/ps3/network/updates/PS3_180_update.html#BD_1080


Full explaination of the 1.8 firmware changes and settings.


If [Full] is set when using a TV that supports RGB full range, the picture quality of the game or video may be improved.



Limited RGB output signal is output in the range from 16 to 235.
Full RGB output signal is output in the range from 0 to 255.

Notes
If black sometimes appears bright and sometimes appears pale on the screen when [Limited] is selected, set this option to [Full].
If black appears dull on the screen when [Full] is selected, set this option to [Limited].
This setting can be used only when [HDMI] has been selected in [Video Output Settings] under (Settings) >
(Display Settings).




Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI)
[Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI)] has been added as an option in (Display Settings) under (Settings).

Super-white signal can now be output when playing Blu-ray Discs (BDs), DVDs or AVCHD discs.

Off Disable super-white output.
On Enable super-white output.

Notes
If image quality is reduced or if the image does not look right when this option is set to [On], set to [Off].
This setting can be used only when [HDMI] has been selected in [Video Output Settings] under (Settings) >
(Display Settings). Also, [Automatic]* or [Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr] must be selected in [BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI)] under (Settings) > (BD/DVD Settings).
* The TV in use must support Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr input signals.
About x.v.Color
When [Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr Super-White (HDMI)] is set to [On], video content from AVCHD discs recorded in x.v.Color can be played with a wide color scale.

Notes
A TV that is compatible with x.v.Color (xvYCC) must be connected using an HDMI cable.
An AVCHD disc that was recorded in x.v.Color must be used.
The x.v.Color logo can be found on devices that support "xvYCC," which is an international standard for color space in moving images. An advantage of x.v.Color is that it can reproduce a wider color scale than the conventional standard.


"x.v.Color" and are trademarks of Sony Corporation.

So what your saying is that with RGB Full on, the XMB should retain the same overall brightness?

Maybe RGB Full isn't properly enabled until a BD/DVD is started, which would explain the XMB returning to what it looked like before FW 1.8

Does anyone have a test that can be performed to see if the XMB is passing BTB and WTW before and after starting a BD/DVD?


Yes. At least for me, RGB full in the XMB results in black crush, I can get rid of it by upping the display brightness but that makes DVDs/Blu-Ray look overly bright as verified by the test patterns on those discs.

RGB Full/Limited should ONLY increase the level range from 16-235 for limited to 0 - 255 for Full... the center point at which both ranges are referenced should be exactly the same. This holds true ONLY for DVDs/Blu-Ray but does not hold true for the XMB.

For me I have to manually set RGB to Full before playing DVDs/Blu-Ray to get BTB to pass and then revert back to Limited for everything else (XMB/trailers/etc). That is, if the setting sticks. When exiting a movie, the setting never sticks in the first place so to me, there seems to be 2 issues going on.

Hmmmmm so does that mean you can only get BTB or WTW, but not both simultaneously? I'm very ignorant about these things, but it sounds like to me that in order to get the BTB, you have to set Video Output to RGB, but to get WTW, you have to set Video Output to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr? Can someone explain please?

No, I get both BTB and WTW with RGB set to Full and BD playback set to RGB only as I should. If you have it set to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr, the superwhite should also get you both WTW and BTB. I don't know why Sony called things the way they did. Superwhite only affects Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr output.

How does having BD output set to Auto instead of either RGB or Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr work exactly? Does it display in Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr if it can tell the disk supports that color space? Everytime I enable Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr on my Samsung TV under any circumstance, everything turns pink.

hmm maybe its the auto thing that is conflicting here,

I have my BD setting on RGB and I have the problem. I have not tried setting it to Auto or Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr only ... I was under the impression that this wouldn't make any difference, and even if it did, it would only affect Blu-ray movies, right?

PS/PS2/PS3 games reverting back to Limited should have nothing to do with the BD Settings menu.

No, I get both BTB and WTW with RGB set to Full and BD playback set to RGB only as I should. If you have it set to Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr, the superwhite should also get you both WTW and BTB. I don't know why Sony called things the way they did. Superwhite only affects Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr output.


Oooooh I see. Thanks for the explanation. So both the "Full" and "Superwhite" are both BTB+WTW type capabilities? Which you use just depends on what video output setting you use right?

Yes. At least for me, RGB full in the XMB results in black crush, I can get rid of it by upping the display brightness but that makes DVDs/Blu-Ray look overly bright as verified by the test patterns on those discs.

RGB Full/Limited should ONLY increase the level range from 16-235 for limited to 0 - 255 for Full... the center point at which both ranges are referenced should be exactly the same. This holds true ONLY for DVDs/Blu-Ray but does not hold true for the XMB.

For me I have to manually set RGB to Full before playing DVDs/Blu-Ray to get BTB to pass and then revert back to Limited for everything else (XMB/trailers/etc). That is, if the setting sticks. When exiting a movie, the setting never sticks in the first place so to me, there seems to be 2 issues going on.

So, how do we know when the XMB is faithfully reproducing WTW and BTB? Is it possible that when exiting a BD/DVD and getting the "hazy" xmb, we are actually receiving RGB Full? and the Darker (crushed?) XMB is the bug?

Can't someone load up a test video/photo file on the HD, and play it back to determine when the XMB is displaying BTB and WTW (either when the setting is intially enabled re: Darker, or after exiting a BD/DVD re: hazy)?

Note: for those who want to see the effects of "Super White" change your BD/DVD setting to YCbCr and during playback press Triangle and seleted Image Adjustments, you can enable/disable SuperWhite during playback.

So, how do we know when the XMB is faithfully reproducing WTW and BTB? Is it possible that when exiting a BD/DVD and getting the "hazy" xmb, we are actually receiving RGB Full? and the Darker (crushed?) XMB is the bug?

Can't someone load up a test video/photo file on the HD, and play it back to determine when the XMB is displaying BTB and WTW (either when the setting is intially enabled re: Darker, or after exiting a BD/DVD re: hazy)?

Note: for those who want to see the effects of "Super White" change your BD/DVD setting to YCbCr and during playback press Triangle and seleted Image Adjustments, you can enable/disable SuperWhite during playback.


We don't... it seems to me that the darker XMB is not right. WHo knows... maybe Sony put it there on purpose to make people think that they are getting better blacks, when in fact they are getting black crush.

Movies being fine make me think that Sony definitely fixed something but did not change the XMB properly or screwed it up to make an impact.

I work in the gaming media and I've just alerted them to this problem and linked to this thread. Hopefully they can fix this soon. As far as I'm concerned this is an awesome firmware update and this bug is the only blemish. Need this fixed ASAP.
Thanks!!! I agree this is definetely a great update, but has a few little hiccups to iron out, if you indeed have a direct contact or can get in the right person's ear, other major issues seem to be that bluetooth headset support is not stable and is glitchy for many of us, also I would say that lack of 1080i/p upscaling for 720p games is costing them major sales in games see this thread: http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3&thread.id=1543693
it would be really great to see this issue covered by the gaming media

I can confirm that I have the same issue, when in the menu I pick "full" then put in a ps2 game and it switches to "limited" yet still says full.

I'm using a sony bravia kdl-40v2500, set at 1080p using HDMI.

Has anyone found the solution to fix the issue yet? I never had a problems with my blacks in the first place but it seemed a bit darker without black crush on "full"

-Paul

Problems here also. PS3 is hooked to Samsung LE37M86.
When powering up, says Full but it's clearly Limited.

Okay --- I have some interesting news to report.

I didn't think this would work at all, but....using an HDMI--->DVI cable with my v1.03 LVM-42w2, the RGB "Full" black crushing test passes with flying colors, whereas with HDMI, it fails miserably.


It still resets itself with the usual actions though.

Okay --- I have some interesting news to report.

I didn't think this would work at all, but....using an HDMI--->DVI cable with my v1.03 LVM-42w2, the RGB "Full" black crushing test passes with flying colors, whereas with HDMI, it fails miserably.


It still resets itself with the usual actions though.
are your game and movie brightness settings the same? or is your gaming brightness lower?

i have a westy ltv-32w1 (only has DVI-HDCP, no HDMI) using an HDMI to DVI cable. if i set it to full, i can see the drop down shadow in the THX optimizer test in the Potc DVD, but when i set it to Limited, i cannot see it. however, when set to full, my gaming brightness is too low.

are your game and movie brightness settings the same? or is your gaming brightness lower?

i have a westy ltv-32w1 (only has DVI-HDCP, no HDMI) using an HDMI to DVI cable. if i set it to full, i can see the drop down shadow in the THX optimizer test in the Potc DVD, but when i set it to Limited, i cannot see it. however, when set to full, my gaming brightness is too low.

I sometimes like to play my games brighter, for to see into the dark corners and frag people in Resistance better. But overall, once this "no RGB Full with PS2, DVD, or BD" bug is fixed, my brightness will be the same for movies and games.

Mine is an LVM-42w2, and I have some experience with LVM-37w3's, but not LTV's. sorry.

Just played a PS2 game and it reverted back to Limited. The setting was still on Full but it wasn't enabled.

Count me in. Same problem here. It will say full, but it is obviously not. Switching to limited and then back to full resets it. :(

Same here.

Me too.

Add me to the list as well.

I'm not sure if my tv's dvi port is screwy already though. I'd always assumed it was, because when connected to the dvi the video always looked way too bright, washed out, and would always resorted to me cranking the brightness way down and having to pump up the color a notch. I kind of gasped when I first turned on the RGB full because it was just magically all better.... oh well, back to component for now.

Got the same problem here as well... have a mitsubishi 57731 1080p via hdmi.

Though something to note here is that I tried setting the display on the ps3 to 1080i, set the RGB to full, and put on POTC. At first the usual giveaway that the RGB did not stay at full is that it stays black while the bd loads, but then it flickers to the usual greyish RGB light setting just as it hits the "disney home video" logo. But with these new settings it didn't happen! It actually stayed at the darker RGB full setting until the POTC menu loaded and my tv informed me that the signal was now at 1080p, just before though, it flickered to the lighter RGB limited. So in short, the RGB setting stayed at full until the signal became 1080p. Also, once the movie started, and the RGB was clearly set back to limited, I went back to the xmb and it flickered back to RGB full!

So with the display set to 1080i, the ps3 wants to keep the RGB setting at full, but once the signal changes to 1080p, it flickers back to limited.... Very interesting.. I'm guessing we can all rest easy with this problem as we all seem to have it. All we can do is wait for sony to fix it up.

My full RGB stays on until I shut the console off, then it is back to limited. I did however quit playback of one of my DVD's (Bloodsport) and it went back to limited. Usually it only happens when I power down the console though.

I am running mine through HDMI on a Sharp 37d90u.

Im running HDMI to my Maxent MX-50x5 and I have pretty much the same problem as everyone else.
In XMB, Movie Trailers and downloaded game demos, 'RGB Full' stays set, and everything looks great. Load up a DVD or BD, and it immediately reverts back to Limited. Also shutting the PS3 down, then turning it back on, results in the same thing. IT says RGB Full but its clearly LImited.

I have tried every possible combination of settings.
Fix this ****, Sony!!!!!! :rolleyes:

Same problem here as everyone else. i have a 46" Sammy LN-T4665F 1080p, my PS3 connected through HDMI port. Man, you can clearly see how dramatically setting the RGB to full changes the blacks, especially when its on the XMB screen and its late night so the screen is at its dark color mode. Switch to RGB Full..Bam! It turns hella black. But once I play a game or BD movie, turns back to normal.

Got the same problem here as well... have a mitsubishi 57731 1080p via hdmi.

Though something to note here is that I tried setting the display on the ps3 to 1080i, set the RGB to full, and put on POTC. At first the usual giveaway that the RGB did not stay at full is that it stays black while the bd loads, but then it flickers to the usual greyish RGB light setting just as it hits the "disney home video" logo. But with these new settings it didn't happen! It actually stayed at the darker RGB full setting until the POTC menu loaded and my tv informed me that the signal was now at 1080p, just before though, it flickered to the lighter RGB limited. So in short, the RGB setting stayed at full until the signal became 1080p. Also, once the movie started, and the RGB was clearly set back to limited, I went back to the xmb and it flickered back to RGB full!

So with the display set to 1080i, the ps3 wants to keep the RGB setting at full, but once the signal changes to 1080p, it flickers back to limited.... Very interesting.. I'm guessing we can all rest easy with this problem as we all seem to have it. All we can do is wait for sony to fix it up.

YOu should find my post about the mitsu tv's
I have a 65831, and what i said is this. the ps3 rgb full is only good on 1080p ps3 games and dashboard. for upscaled dvds, blue ray, or upscaled ps2, the mits wants rgb full. Its a combination of the tv looking for 0-255 color space on 1080p and the ps3 changed rgb full to limited " the bug". Note this, when you have the ps3 on 1080i dont use rgb full because you will get black crush. the mits has correct color space with 1080i at rgb limited. When sony fixes the firmware to stay in rgb full for blue ray , dvd , and upscaled games, then we can set it to 1080p and rgb full, however with the mits if you play a ps3 game that is 720p you need to use limited.
hope you got all that

Paidgeek, a sony insider has verified sony knows about the rgb bug. He said to the best of his knowledge the next firmware update would indeed fix it. The bug is the rgb full changes back to limited when set on 1080p and viewing a blue ray movie, dvd movie upscaled, or upscaled ps1 ps2 game. Rgb full does stay locked when playing a 1080p ps3 game.

i'm pretty certain it reverts back to Limited for watching BD set at 720p also. i will try 1080i today when i get a chance. unless we already know all resolution settings for blu-ray playback reverts rgb setting to limited.

saying it will be fixed in the next FW update makes it sound as if it'd take a long time to fix. hopefully we get a 1.81 FW this thursday.

I'm running HDMI on a samsung LN-R3228W @720P no problems here. Question: what does super white do? Does it work on games with any LCD?

*UPDATE*

Oops, my system does it as well. Hope they fix this bug asap!

i'm pretty certain it reverts back to Limited for watching BD set at 720p also. i will try 1080i today when i get a chance. unless we already know all resolution settings for blu-ray playback reverts rgb setting to limited.

saying it will be fixed in the next FW update makes it sound as if it'd take a long time to fix. hopefully we get a 1.81 FW this thursday.
I am using 1080i for everything(where supported), it does indeed revert to Limited with DVDs and BDs @ 1080i.

I am using 1080i for everything(where supported), it does indeed revert to Limited with DVDs and BDs @ 1080i.

thanks, that'll save me some trouble of fiddling around. we'll have to wait for the next fix then.

Looks like 1.81 fixes our problem with Full not sticking. Works for me.

Looks like 1.81 fixes our problem with Full not sticking. Works for me.
heh, it better have, b/c that's the only thing listed as being fixed. works for me too.

Great. Now I have something to play around with later tonight! :cool: .

Great. Now I have something to play around with later tonight! :cool: .
don't forget to report back your findings =)

i intend to try out having the display setting on RGB instead of YCbCr and see if there's any diff. i do know right now on YCbCr and RGB on full, i can see all 3 bars in the sony test pattern so i should be fine.

Okay - this is kind of ridiculous.

Sure, RGB full sticks now, but it still doesn't work for PS2 games or DVD's for me. Way to go, Sony. :rolleyes:

(it also looks as if RGB full in general in the xmb, ps3 games, etc is not looking as good)

Okay - this is kind of ridiculous.

Sure, RGB full sticks now, but it still doesn't work for PS2 games or DVD's for me. Way to go, Sony. :rolleyes:

(it also looks as if RGB full in general in the xmb, ps3 games, etc is not looking as good)


1) Are you sure your tv can display the RGB Full?

2) Do DVDs and PS2 games even have a wide enough color palette to benefit from 0-255?

So far nobody has made the switch to RGB Full without raising their brightness also correct? I'd like to get the most out of my Sammy 4665, but I'm worried about black crush, and I really like the brightness at 42 on my current config.

if you set BR/DVD to output RGB, then you can use a DVD setup disc like Avia or Digital Video Essentials, or if you have a DVD movie that is THX optimized (theres usually a logo on the back of the case) there is a THX optimizer in the setup.

if you don't have any of this, try to find a black screen, set the brightness to something fairly low and slowly up the brightness until black becomes noticeably lighter. at this point, lower the brightness a few notches (1-2) and you shouldn't be crushing any black detail, nor will you be washing out blacks.

1) Are you sure your tv can display the RGB Full?

2) Do DVDs and PS2 games even have a wide enough color palette to benefit from 0-255?

1) Yes, DVI can (HDMI does not, for whatever reason...)
2) Maybe I'm expecting too much from Sony then...I was expecting the PS3 to be able to take 15-235 material and make that display correctly on a display that uses 0-255 (but the other console can do that correctly through VGA, right? Why can't they get the PS3 to do that through HDMI?)

I'll probably just switch back to HDMI and stick with "limited".

EDIT: I'm reading reports that the PS3 no longer passes BTB anymore with this update (with RGB set to full).

If that's true, what's the point of having the RGB full option at all?

EDIT: I'm reading reports that the PS3 no longer passes BTB anymore with this update (with RGB set to full).

If that's true, what's the point of having the RGB full option at all?

I believe the BTB issue being reported has to do with PS3 owners who use an HDMI-to-DVI cable.

However, if you have a regular HDMI-to-HDMI cable, then the PS3 should pass BTB fine.

I believe the BTB issue being reported has to do with PS3 owners who use an HDMI-to-DVI cable.

However, if you have a regular HDMI-to-HDMI cable, then the PS3 should pass BTB fine.

I don't understand - BTB is anything below 15, and DVI goes all the way down to zero...so why wouldn't it be able to display BTB?

RGB Full no longer passes BTB on my HDMI to HDMI connection with 1.81. It did pass BTB on 1.8.

tested all the settings last night, and it seems the best result for me is BD/DVD Setting set to RGB and on Full.

even tho at this setting i can only see 2 instead of 3 bars in the CR test pattern, it displays better blacks than setting RGB to Limited or BD/DVD to YCrCb. Setting to YCrCb does show 3 bars under the test pattern, but things look washed out vs setting BD/DVD to RGB.

tested all the settings last night, and it seems the best result for me is BD/DVD Setting set to RGB and on Full.

even tho at this setting i can only see 2 instead of 3 bars in the CR test pattern, it displays better blacks than setting RGB to Limited or BD/DVD to YCrCb. Setting to YCrCb does show 3 bars under the test pattern, but things look washed out vs setting BD/DVD to RGB.

Just to be certain that I am seeing all 3 bars, they are right next to each other correct? I see bar/bar/bar not bar/space/bar/space/bar. I hope you all understand what I wrote. :)

Just to be certain that I am seeing all 3 bars, they are right next to each other correct? I see bar/bar/bar not bar/space/bar/space/bar. I hope you all understand what I wrote. :)
Thats correct. I see bar/bar/bar.

Just to be certain that I am seeing all 3 bars, they are right next to each other correct? I see bar/bar/bar not bar/space/bar/space/bar. I hope you all understand what I wrote. :)

you should see 3 bars of equal width.

Lost BTB here too (HDMI -> DVI). Also, after the new update I had to crank up the brightness and down the contrast to properly calibrate the image. I'm pretty certain that 1.8 to 1.81 update has worsened my image.

I believe the BTB issue being reported has to do with PS3 owners who use an HDMI-to-DVI cable.

Good luck with that. Sony won't officially support that kind of connection. I'm having HDCP handshake problems with my JVC AV-48wp30 with DVI and this is the first thing the support guy told me.

Thanks guys :)

It's been reported that BTB is no longer passed via HDMI to HDMI as well. I don't think that it's exclusively an HDMI to DVI problem.

It's been reported that BTB is no longer passed via HDMI to HDMI as well. I don't think that it's exclusively an HDMI to DVI problem.

It's working just fine for me via HDMI-HDMI.

RGB Full no longer passes BTB on my HDMI to HDMI connection with 1.81. It did pass BTB on 1.8.
Not working for BryanCPA.

It's been reported that BTB is no longer passed via HDMI to HDMI as well. I don't think that it's exclusively an HDMI to DVI problem.


working fine for me too

It's been reported that BTB is no longer passed via HDMI to HDMI as well. I don't think that it's exclusively an HDMI to DVI problem.
+1. Working fine on my Sony XBR2.

Hmm... Curious. What the hell's going on then?

for those who say it's working fine, what do you have your BD/DVD display setting set on? YCrCb or RGB?

while YCrCb passes BTB for me via sony's test pattern, i see a somewhat washed out image compared to RGB & Full (RGB Limited yields same washed out image as YCrCb). maybe i lose a bit of black detail, but it looks a lot better than the washed out images.

Hmm... Curious. What the hell's going on then?

Well, without any other information from the one person saying it doesn't work via HDMI-HDMI, I'm going to say "operator error," or his tv doesn't support BTB.

Well, without any other information from the one person saying it doesn't work via HDMI-HDMI, I'm going to say "operator error," or his tv doesn't support BTB.
Sounds about right.

To clarify, not operator error. When I set to YCrCb and Superwhite on, I get BTB. When I set to RGB Full, no BTB. Under 1.8 I did get BTB with the RGB Full setting so something changed at least with my display-PS3 combination when updating to 1.81. FYI my display is a Sanyo Z4 projector.

I have this issue as well. With 1.8, both RGB and YCrCb would pass BTB. With 1.81, RGB does not pass it anymore. I am using only an HDMI cable with a Panasonic LCD projection TV. RGB does not pass BTB using Full or Limited anymore. I can pass BTB using my Sony upscaling DVD player set to RGB, so I don't think it is a TV issue.

Ok, how do you know if you are not getting BTB? Do you have to use a calibration disk or something?

I use the THX Optimizer found on most DVDs. The birghtness config test will tell you.

Sounds about right.
BryanCPA, I retract this comment.

I noticed one thing while playing Resistance last night. When I calibrated my display after the 1.80 update I found that settings good for DVD were also good for games. After 1.81, however, I had to recalibrate for DVD (brightness up, contrast down), but my previous 1.80 settings for games are still right. I guess that the PS3 is now passing different colour spaces for games and DVD.

So......I wonder when Sony will re-fix RGB full........

Hmm, whast teh code to bring up the test patterns for Sony movies? :)

EDIT;
NM, got it

Well here is my highly-non-professional analysis.

-YCbCr BD/DVD output, I can get all three bars on the first test pattern of a Sony BD to show up if I crank the brightness up quite a bit. But, it makes the movies and everything else look like ass. Doesnt matter what the RGB-Full/Limited is set to when on YCbCr, which makes sense.

-Automatic, Is the exact same results as YCbCr.

-RGB BD/DVD output, I cannot get all three bars to show at all, on RGB Full nor Limited.

I didnt try any games. This was all done with Black Hawk Down BluRay Disc on my Maxent 50" MX-50x5, and with the Black Enhancement turned OFF on my display.

Also, for what its worth, I have found that everythign seems to look best on RGB output, with RGB Full turned on, as well as SuperWhite (or whatever its called) for YCbCr enabled. I have contrast set to 80 and Brightness to 65 with Black Enhancement turned OFF.

Blacks have a very wide range, which go so deep that I think if it goes any deeper my pixels are going to fall out of my display. :cool:

You are supposed to turn brightness all the way up to see all 3 bars, then turn it down until the 2 on the left just blend with the background so you only see the one on the far right. At this point your brightness setting is calibrated.

You are supposed to turn brightness all the way up to see all 3 bars, then turn it down until the 2 on the left just blend with the background so you only see the one on the far right. At this point your brightness setting is calibrated.
I know, and at that point, everything still looks like ass. Way too bright for my preference.