I thought it would be fun to share my initial listening impressions of the WP8 speakers.

The WP8s have reduced the level of grain in the midrange and high end. Not only does it sound more relaxed, but more information gets through. My wife stated that the new speakers sound “less fuzzy” than the old ones. The spatial reproduction with the WP8s is quite startling with familiar material. The slight midrange brightness and mid bass prominence of the 7s has also been significantly reduced. I suspect that this is the reason some folks think that the WP7s sound better than the 8s in the store environment. The WP8 is also more dynamic sounding than the 7s.

I am not suggesting that the WP7s are anything less than a wonderful speaker. I had these speakers for four years and loved them. But to suggest that Dave Wilson designed a new speaker that is not superior to its predecessor is simply not true. The man is definitely “in tune” with his market.

My system is composed of Levinson 33H amps and Levinson 32 preamp. Wilson Watch Dog II, Wavelength Audio Crimson USB DAC, Basis V Vacuum table with Graham Phantom tone arm and Koetsu Jade cartridge. Cables and AC cords are Revelation Audio Labs. PS Audio Premier Power Plants are also used.

Congrats on your W/P8 speakers. I had demoed the 7s awhile ago and almost bought them. The dealer warned me that the 8s would be released in a few months and that I should wait. After they were released I had a few chances to buy the 7s at low prices, but when I heard the 8s I lost all interest in the 7s, and then recently, after finishing my 2-channel optimized HT room, took the plunge on the 8s myself...

I haven't seen any review yet that says they aren't better sounding than the 7s (or at least more refined, etc). The worst I have seen is complaints about the pricing for the added expense of extravagance. I personally loved how they sounded, even at HES2007 in those two hotel rooms with different equipment (uncannily real sounding).

WP 8's are certainly a great speaker but as I have posted many times here before it was my opinion that for anyone to upgrade from WP 7's to WP 8's was a lateral move. Those who had 7's and were looking to upgrade were best served by going to MAXX ll's which IMO for the money are absolutely wonderful

WP 8's are certainly a great speaker but as I have posted many times here before it was my opinion that for anyone to upgrade from WP 7's to WP 8's was a lateral move. Those who had 7's and were looking to upgrade were best served by going to MAXX ll's which IMO for the money are absolutely wonderful

Without a doubt the Maxx IIs are great speakers, and worth it if you can accommodate them. Other considerations may be important when considering a movement from one size speaker to another, such as room volume, room design (acoustically) and wall to wall dimensions. Too large a speaker for too small a room isn't always a good thing. Rooms are instruments of sound too. I'm not sure what splaskin's particular situation happens to be, but someone may happen along who will run into issues with these room considerations if they try to move upwards in upgrades instead of laterally.

Without a doubt the Maxx IIs are great speakers, and worth it if you can accommodate them. Other considerations may be important when considering a movement from one size speaker to another, such as room volume, room design (acoustically) and wall to wall dimensions. Too large a speaker for too small a room isn't always a good thing. Rooms are instruments of sound too. I'm not sure what splaskin's particular situation happens to be, but someone may happen along who will run into issues with these room considerations if they try to move upwards in upgrades instead of laterally.

You're preaching to the choir here sir :rolleyes:

You're preaching to the choir here sir :rolleyes:

I was wondering where that beautiful singing was coming from! :D

I was wondering where that beautiful singing was coming from! :D

Probably from my Wilson X-2's in an acoustically pretty darn good room :D

BTW Splaskin...I think your gear is terrific.

Enjoy the music.

Probably from my Wilson X-2's in an acoustically pretty darn good room :D

Very nice. Now those are speakers to aspire towards. :)

Over the past 10 years I have owned pretty much all of Dave's speakers except for the WAMM.

After I graduated from Maggie's I then went to Thiel and then WP 5.1, WP 6, MAXX-ls and X-1 Series lll bedore the X-2.
I also have the XS and WATCH center surround and rear.

Needless to say I love the Wilson sound and won't ever buy another speaker or amp for that matter

I heard the X-2's in Dave's living room just after their release and I was stunned that they made the X-1 seem ordinary.

So I am not making light of your quest. There are many great speakers out there but for me it is the Wilson sound which rocks my sonic boat

Over the past 10 years I have owned pretty much all of Dave's speakers except for the WAMM.

After I graduated from Maggie's I then went to Thiel and then WP 5.1, WP 6, MAXX-ls and X-1 Series lll bedore the X-2.
I also have the XS and WATCH center surround and rear.

Needless to say I love the Wilson sound and won't ever buy another speaker or amp for that matter

I heard the X-2's in Dave's living room just after their release and I was stunned that they made the X-1 seem ordinary.

So I am not making light of your quest. There are many great speakers out there but for me it is the Wilson sound which rocks my sonic boat

So far I've had the same experience, though nowhere near as extensive as your own. Even at HE 2007, I just didn't hear anything I thought was better sounding to my ears. I spent the last year and a half after hearing the Watt/Puppy 7 trying to convince myself I was happy with my previous speaker, but I wasn't. I waited until my room was nearly completed, except for fine tuning, to see if it resolved any of my overwhelming issues with my previous speaker, and it didn't. After hearing the W/P8 recently and loving it even more, I decided purchasing it was the best decision. Now I don't have to pine for the sound I enjoy.

Funny enough, I've demoed a lot of speakers, albeit not always in the best rooms, but nothing has done the same thing for me sonically either. Even with the Wilsons in equally bad rooms, they make recordings seem so there and alive. I get the feeling I have a long road of expensive upgrades in store, I'm just going to have to take my time and enjoy the ride. ;)

just remember that it is a journey and not a destination

just remember that it is a journey and not a destination

I'll be forever getting there. ;)

Thanks for the complement OB.

I shared your view about the lateral move and avoided the “upgrade” from 7 to 8. An opportunity came my way that I decided to take. At that time I felt that the 8s were only a little better sounding than the 7s.

I was very surprised when I set up a pair of the 8s in my own system. I never expected such a large level of improvement. This has been confirmed by my audiophile friends. But the best complement came from my wife.

But, as OB stated, “it is a journey and not a destination.”

How right you are.

I was very surprised when I set up a pair of the 8s in my own system. I never expected such a large level of improvement. This has been confirmed by my audiophile friends.

I brought a friend with me to HE2007. He had been skeptical of the price of the W/P 8s, so I really wanted him to hear them for himself. Once he heard them he understood. He still keeps bringing up how real the Frank Sinatra vocals sounded, and how right there in the room McGrath's recordings sounded.

I'm still debating if I should invite him for the voicing. I don't want people getting in the way of the process, so I might not invite anyone. I have two friends who I know would love to experience the setup process.

But the best complement came from my wife.

I envy you your wife. My wife could care less about whether it is a Bose radio, outdoor Nile's speakers, the radio in the car, or Wilson Watt Puppy 8 speakers. Oh well, I guess it is a good thing in a way, seeing as she at least doesn't stop me from indulging my own audio desires. If anything I don't have to worry about fighting with her for listening time, though it would be nice to share that passion, we do have other passions we share. BTW, her purses are A LOT less expensive than my speakers (She told me to write that... LOL :p).

I'm still debating if I should invite him for the voicing. I don't want people getting in the way of the process, so I might not invite anyone. I have two friends who I know would love to experience the setup process.


It's pretty straight forward if you follow instructions in the Wilson manual

I brought a friend with me to HE2007. He had been skeptical of the price of the W/P 8s, so I really wanted him to hear them for himself. Once he heard them he understood. He still keeps bringing up how real the Frank Sinatra vocals sounded, and how right there in the room McGrath's recordings sounded.

I'm still debating if I should invite him for the voicing. I don't want people getting in the way of the process, so I might not invite anyone. I have two friends who I know would love to experience the setup process.



I envy you your wife. My wife could care less about whether it is a Bose radio, outdoor Nile's speakers, the radio in the car, or Wilson Watt Puppy 8 speakers. Oh well, I guess it is a good thing in a way, seeing as she at least doesn't stop me from indulging my own audio desires. If anything I don't have to worry about fighting with her for listening time, though it would be nice to share that passion, we do have other passions we share. BTW, her purses are A LOT less expensive than my speakers (She told me to write that... LOL :p).

I can help on that one...I was recently in New York and walked into a store with a friend of mine who was shopping for his wife...found a small purse for USD 8,000 and yes, they had much bigger ones as well...cannot for the life of me remember the brand...

I can help on that one...I was recently in New York and walked into a store with a friend of mine who was shopping for his wife...found a small purse for USD 8,000 and yes, they had much bigger ones as well...cannot for the life of me remember the brand...

Hermes?

It's pretty straight forward if you follow instructions in the Wilson manual

They wouldn't mind seeing it in action though, via an experienced dealer, but I know they will ask a lot of questions and might want to stand in the room (adding extra absorption to the room). Best to keep things uncomplicated... I might change my mind though.

One new twist on the WP8 install I don't remember when doing the 7s. The even number serial number speakers are placed on the right; the odd on the left.

Heard the 8's with a Halcro HT processor. Sounded good. Easily better than the Sophia and the Duettes.

One new twist on the WP8 install I don't remember when doing the 7s. The even number serial number speakers are placed on the right; the odd on the left.

if you are into classical symphonic music you should prepare to swap the speakers periodically for even out wear and tear. as you know where the bass and double bass are placed in the orchestra :)

if you are into classical symphonic music you should prepare to swap the speakers periodically for even out wear and tear. as you know where the bass and double bass are placed in the orchestra :)


Bah... Just switch the right and left amplifier input wires every week or two. It won't sound that different. Heck, it might even liven those classical pieces up a little more! J/K

I actually do enjoy classical a lot, even if I don't listen to it as much as some other genres.

Even better than? Of course their better than the Duettas or Sophias I or II. Significantly better than!

Switch then from left to right or switch the wires if you play symphonic material? Please! Totally not necessary. Dave Wilson would be too polite to laugh. One bass driver might break in a little faster but after 100 hrs or so, there would be no benefit.

ok but switching speaker wires or amplifier input cables will also shift the positions of the 1st violins and double bass etc. this is a no no unless you dont appreciate proper sound positioning

it is about wear and tear with more bass heavy materials on right side and more highs on left . definitely no relationship to breaking in

Dave Wilson would be too polite to laugh.

he may suggest a swap every 6 months :D

Switch then from left to right or switch the wires if you play symphonic material? Please! Totally not necessary. Dave Wilson would be too polite to laugh. One bass driver might break in a little faster but after 100 hrs or so, there would be no benefit.
ok but switching speaker wires or amplifier input cables will also shift the positions of the 1st violins and double bass etc. this is a no no unless you dont appreciate proper sound positioning

it is about wear and tear with more bass heavy materials on right side and more highs on left . definitely no relationship to breaking in

LOL... I was making a joke, thus the J/K (Just/Kidding). No one in their right mind would switch the cables around and have the right speaker playing the left output and the left speaker playing the right output. ;)

but i am serious thinking about how to properly maintain those highly priced speakers to use for years :eek:

Hermes?

No, Hermes I would have remembered it was an English/U.K. brand...

CPu

I will not go there.... Pretty soon we wil be back to these strange photographs-in-the-fridge-for-better-sound ideas...

I have heard the WP8 and it is a beter speaker than the 7. The WP8 is more neutral than the WP7... More reminiscent to the less colored "New Wilson Sound", a turn-around toward a less euphonics but ultimately more realistic and transparent reproduction that started with the X-2...

Would it make sense to upgrade from the 7 to the 8? IMHO , No.. too simlar,.. Yes the 8 is a better speaker but just an improvement of the same speaker... I agree on this with OB, a lateral move. If the person is bent on getting a better Wilson, then the choice is simple: MAXX-2!! no Doubt and with it as close a cure to upgrade-itis as one can get...However if the person just wants a better speaker, things become more interesting but that would be OT.. :)

However if the person just wants a better speaker, things become more interesting but that would be OT.. :)

Ouch! I can feel the love... :p

frantz

message received :p

I have heard the WP8 and it is a beter speaker than the 7. The WP8 is more neutral than the WP7... More reminiscent to the less colored "New Wilson Sound", a turn-around toward a less euphonics but ultimately more realistic and transparent reproduction that started with the X-2...

More accurate than a 7? I can't believe it! What's next, we will put a man on the moon? ;)

What's next, we will put a man on the moon? ;)

Don't be silly... Everyone knows the moon is made out of cheese! If anything the next step should be putting a mouse on the moon. That way it can eat the moon and permanently rid the world of those apocalyptic eclipses. J/K

Alimentall

I would never be construed as a Wilson fanatic but in the name of fairness let it be said that the Wilson speakers, whether you like them or not, have always reproduced music in a most startling fashion. You may not have heard the latest Wilson but starting with the X-2, Wilson (MAXX-2, WP8) are not euphonics, they will not embellish the midband or create a false sense of clarity where the recording has none, the way the WP5 did. The redesign of the Watt Puppy was overdue in that respect, it is closer to the MAXX-2 now and better because of that,, a leaner, Yes, more accurate speakers.. It would be an interesting experience to listen to the X-2 to have an idea of the SOTA is in term of speakers.

To be fair to other speakers, I don't think you can consider a speaker that deviates more than +/-5 or 8dB from accurate to be SOTA. Bright, thin, forward is still euphonic if people like it. My idea of SOTA is still something that is a faithful transducer, not something that "sounds fantastic".

In any case, I have to have fun with using the term "more accurate" when talking about Wilson. Kinda of like discussing the new, warmer, more personable Al Gore :)

To be fair to other speakers, I don't think you can consider a speaker that deviates more than +/-5 or 8dB from accurate to be SOTA.

Everything deviates off of that at some point. Do you mean within certain frequency ranges? If so, what frequency ranges do you consider adequate for that kind of deviation range? Just curious (and I'm sure it would change between full floorstanders and monitors, so if you don't mind stating it in terms of both that would be cool, thanks). Also, what do you mean by the 8dB that is listed separately from the +/-5?

I gave up on buying speakers based on FR personally. I make sure that the speaker isn't crazy off on the FR, but I've found that often the FR, even if flat doesn't make the speaker sound great to me (though there aren't many, if any, passive full floorstanding speakers out there that measure relatively flat as far as I have seen, it seems to be an elusive standard that no one measures up to in this category, likely due to the complications of driver alignment, etc). I think Rives' article on Audioholics about acoustical measurements (http://www.audioholics.com/education/acoustics-principles/acoustical-measurements-what-are-they/) makes some great points about FR preferences. Also, our ability to hear areas of the FR changes with time, so one absolute doesn't exist for our own ears in terms of a perfect FR as we get older (quite the opposite in fact...). You also have the added issues of room acoustics that destroy smooth FRs anyway. Lastly, it is fairly easy to process a signal to correct for FR issues as well, making it a problem of lesser importance in terms of all measurements if you absolutely insist on having as perfect a FR as possible.

The W/P 8 measurement in Stereophile doesn't deviate more than +/-5 dB from what I can tell on their measurements (though it isn't a continuous measurement like the NRC of Canada ones done for Soundstage, nor independent either). The NRC version is even flatter than the Stereophile measurement I think (I admit, I get a little bit confused with what every colored line means in the bigger picture of that FR graph as a whole due to the lack of continuity in the Stereophile graph), and that is a continuous measurment made at a little more than 6 feet away by an independent group (by independent I mean outside the audio community, not a part of it).

In any case, to each their own. I buy what I enjoy. That way I'll enjoy myself when I sit down to relax and listen to music. It is much more important to me that it sound real when I listen to it, and less important for me to find comfort in graphs and plots. I'm more interested in the illusion of a real event taking place in my listening room, than if I can prove 100% signal integrity on a chart, since absolute integrity isn't possible anyway. The gestalt of all of the elements, imperfect or not, coming together to create an illusion of a real event in front of me is what drives my purchasing power. Thankfully I listen with my ears and not my eyes, so I'll leave the sense to my hearing, not my seeing. The nice thing about my philosophy is, I can buy and enjoy what I find pleasing, and everyone else can do the same, and no one is wrong for liking something different. Everyone gets to be happy... :D

That is just my thinking on and experience with these things from spending the last year and a half studying and contemplating these kinds of issues (using numerous web sites, books such as Master Handbook of Acoustics and Total Recording, and being the General Contractor overseeing my own listening room/HT construction and researching all of the design elements installed) and as someone who has purchased the Watt Puppy 8 speakers. I admit, I'm still learning and likely will continue to keep learning until I die, but my ears definitely have a mind of their own when it comes to what they enjoy.

I'm not directing any of this at anyone in particular, except the initial question that was aimed at Alimentall concerning FR ranges, etc.

"Marketers often use the term "perceived value" as a measure of
what they're selling. Our only interest is in "authentic value".
—Dave Wilson

"Authentic Excellence" gives me shpilkes!

In any case, to each their own. I buy what I enjoy. That way I'll enjoy myself when I sit down to relax and listen to music. It is much more important to me that it sound real when I listen to it, and less important for me to find comfort in graphs and plots. I'm more interested in the illusion of a real event taking place in my listening room, than if I can prove 100% signal integrity on a chart, since absolute integrity isn't possible anyway. The gestalt of all of the elements, imperfect or not, coming together to create an illusion of a real event in front of me is what drives my purchasing power. Thankfully I listen with my ears and not my eyes, so I'll leave the sense to my hearing, not my seeing. The nice thing about my philosophy is, I can buy and enjoy what I find pleasing, and everyone else can do the same, and no one is wrong for liking something different. Everyone gets to be happy

I agree completely

Unfortunately John (Alimental) feels it is his crusade to follow graphs rather than his ears.
By his own admission he has never heard Wilson speakers

Well, I would more say it this way - accuracy certainly isn't everything, but it should be the very first thing a speaker should do to be labeled "SOTA".

To be honest, +/-3dB is average. A truly SOTA speaker should be +/-1 or 2dB at the most, in addition to ultra low distortion, smooth off axis behavior and low spectral decay. I think it was the Wilson Maxx 2 that was measured at +/-8dB. Even a B&W can hit +/-5dB.

An inaccurate speaker is like saying "he's a great husband, except that he cheats on his wife". It used to be that accuracy was a goal. Now it's shunned as being unimportant by high-end companies as unimportant because $200 speakers can be tonally accurate. IOW, when the affordable stuff can match you in important ways, you shift the goals to be something different.

Count me in as one who, up until recently, primarily due to a lack of a local dealer, never heard any Wilsons.

I have listened to Focal, B and W, Theil, many different pro active studio monitors, Vandersteen, Polk, Aerial, NHT,Martin Logan, Maggie's and finally, Paradigm. I own B and W, Theil, and Paradigm.

I really liked the sound of the Watt Puppy 8, driven by Jeff Rowland's ICE ICE babies, processed by the new Halcro HT processor- in two channel stereo mode.

I was told, the WP8's sound even better with dedicated, two channel, higher end gear.

Flat or not, I liked the way they sound and like the above have stated, that is all that matters to me. The Sophia's and Duette's sounded very similar, just less good. Each, an obvious step below the next.

Skeptics, as I once was, should listen for yourselves.

In some countries, dipping into the honey pot does not carry the same stigma as it does in the US.

In some countries, dipping into the honey pot does not carry the same stigma as it does in the US.


???

???

A little hanky-panky with the mistress isn't frowned upon as much.

???I'm with you. I thought it was just me that Chu's post went sailing right past me.

I agree completely

Unfortunately John (Alimental) feels it is his crusade to follow graphs rather than his ears.
By his own admission he has never heard Wilson speakers

He's the only one that suffers for it, thankfully. I take it back, I guess we suffer for it too, since he feels the need to post in this thread, despite having no first hand experience with this speaker or any of the other Wilsons (though technically, this thread is about the W/P 8, not the Maxx IIs anyway...).

I still don't understand why people make it their business to bother other people about their speaker choices. Do people feel that insecure about us owning these speakers that they feel the need to bother us about it? If they didn't feel insecure about it, they would just go to a thread about a speaker they actually own and like, instead of hanging around in threads for speakers they haven't even heard and trying to make people who like those speakers believe they should be unhappy with their choices (trying, but not succeeding, and thus, also wasting their time and ours).

I'm with you. I thought it was just me that Chu's post went sailing right past me.

I think he meant, sweetening up the sound at the expense of strict adherence to an ideal graph. Though, because of the imperfections of the human hearing mechanism, the room response to the speakers output, and the ease with which some elements of a speakers output can be treated (especially the FR, that is very very easily fixed with processing), some of these issues are not consequential if you like the speaker's sound anyway.

I think he meant, sweetening up the sound at the expense of strict adherence to an ideal graph. Though, because of the imperfections of the human hearing mechanism, the room response to the speakers output, and the ease with which some elements of a speakers output can be treated (especially the FR, that is very very easily fixed with processing), some of these issues are not consequential if you like the speaker's sound anyway.
Ok, thanks. I just missed that completely.

I still don't understand why people make it their business to bother other people about their speaker choices. Do people feel that insecure about us owning these speakers that they feel the need to bother us about it? If they didn't feel insecure about it, they would just go to a thread about a speaker they actually own and like, instead of hanging around in threads for speakers they haven't even heard and trying to make people who like those speakers believe they should be unhappy with their choices (trying, but not succeeding, and thus, also wasting their time and ours).

Welcome to AVSForum ;)

A little hanky-panky with the mistress isn't frowned upon as much.

I'm with you. I thought it was just me that Chu's post went sailing right past me.

I think he meant, sweetening up the sound at the expense of strict adherence to an ideal graph. Though, because of the imperfections of the human hearing mechanism, the room response to the speakers output, and the ease with which some elements of a speakers output can be treated (especially the FR, that is very very easily fixed with processing), some of these issues are not consequential if you like the speaker's sound anyway.

Ok, thanks. I just missed that completely.

well all I can say now is ???? huh???

Now I'm completely confused?!?! :confused:

Given the WP 8 drivers, cabinet build quality and design, could Wilson make the WP 8 30-20,000hz + or - 3db, if he desired?

I'm sure there are other, far less expensive speakers out there that are.

You might also ask how the measurements vary as an inherent part of the technique.