Hi,

I have a question about banding. I've heard the sharp 92 series has some banding issues. I think it is the best screen around at the moment. It looks fantastic. But I would like to make sure so I am not stuck with a lemon. I have a 360, the hd add on, and dve. I have played some dve tests and I don't see any banding. What is the best way to test for banding? I have a few more days where I can exchange it, but I think it might have low banding. What is the best test on dve or the internal tests to find banding? Or should I just make a grey test in photoshop? Any suggestions to test my display? Or to check for dead pixels.

Ideally you need a banding-free pattern, the ramps in DVE or Avia are okay at revealing more severe banding, but they're not inherently banding free. I forget what's on GetGray in this regards, but there are banding-free patterns on Avia PRO, and so I would assume they would also appear on Avia II which should be out shortly it seems.

You can also test using some movies, especially foggy ones, but you need to know that there isn't banding in the content which is not a safe assumption for you to establish.

If I just output a grey box made in photoshop, do I just look for darker/lighter areas? If it looks evenly grey, it is band free? Does the banding show up at different levels? I have a pc connected via dvi and a hd add on for the 360. What is the best test? A solid grey? How do I check for clouding?

Ah, you mean you're searching for vertical banding specifically! That was not clear originally. In that case, yes large fields will help reveal that kind of LCD vertical banding across the screen, usually it's most objectionable on green/bluish stuff, so like movies with light skies and such you can look there.

I was originally thinking you were referring to banding/contouring as a bit-depth problem which can also arise, but that you look for with ramps patterns, and is not the LCD vertical banding across the screen that you seem to be referring to.

So yeah, I would probably put up bright fields in R, G, and B (to keep them distinct), perhaps at some various brightnesses, and hunt around for banding. Because VB is going to be static on the screen, a nice trick that you can do with a PC is to make a pattern in a smaller minimized window and then drag the window around the screen. This can make uniformity problems, such as VB, much much more easy to see. But because it's so exaggerated as your eyes track slowly across the screen., you're likely to see VB no matter what, even though it frankly may not be objectionable in any kind of normal viewing.

Hope that helps!

Why are you looking for something bad on a set which you are so happy with? :confused: Be careful what you ask for, sometimes you'll get it.... :eek:

:cool:

Ah, you mean you're searching for vertical banding specifically! That was not clear originally. In that case, yes large fields will help reveal that kind of LCD vertical banding across the screen, usually it's most objectionable on green/bluish stuff, so like movies with light skies and such you can look there.

I was originally thinking you were referring to banding/contouring as a bit-depth problem which can also arise, but that you look for with ramps patterns, and is not the LCD vertical banding across the screen that you seem to be referring to.

So yeah, I would probably put up bright fields in R, G, and B (to keep them distinct), perhaps at some various brightnesses, and hunt around for banding. Because VB is going to be static on the screen, a nice trick that you can do with a PC is to make a pattern in a smaller minimized window and then drag the window around the screen. This can make uniformity problems, such as VB, much much more easy to see. But because it's so exaggerated as your eyes track slowly across the screen., you're likely to see VB no matter what, even though it frankly may not be objectionable in any kind of normal viewing.

Hope that helps!

Thanks for the clear advice.

Why are you looking for something bad on a set which you are so happy with? :confused: Be careful what you ask for, sometimes you'll get it.... :eek:

:cool:

While I have the ability to return the tv, I see no reason not to check for flaws. Your logic seems flawed. Don't look for trouble, just be happy. Luckily, my set seems to have low banding. It is the sharp 92 series. Which have a reputation for banding. Why would I not test for banding? Or make sure I spent my hard earned cash on a quality product? I can't think of a single reason why you would post that reply.

I don't agree with "flawed logic". If you knew that the set has a reputation for banding and you knew that, why even buy it? IMO... that's flawed logic. ;)

I guess that you now see it, will you be returning the set?

I think it is the best screen around at the moment. It looks fantastic. But I would like to make sure so I am not stuck with a lemon.

and you say I used flawed logic ????????? :eek:

I don't agree with "flawed logic". If you knew that the set has a reputation for banding and you knew that, why even buy it? IMO... that's flawed logic. ;)

I guess that you now see it, will you be returning the set?

Knowing that some models have banding, but not all and trying to find one that is good doesn't seem illogical. I looked at all the models under 5 grand. Nothing looked better to me. But I didn't want to be stuck with a set with bad banding. The tests reveal very few minor bandings. It is within my tolerance. It has the look that I like. Again, why not test? Why not use the 31 day policy to make sure everything is good? If this set wasn't right, I could have exchanged it for another one until I got a good model. Please point out my flawed logic. Buying and checking something that I think is worthwhile? The tests let me relax knowing that the slight banding is very low. I'm still not 100% happy because of the sd quality, but I don't think the perfect tv exists, or at least in the sub 5,000$ price. This set should keep me happy for a few years.

I think it would be pretty silly to purchase an LCD display and not check for VB if that is something that bothers you. The set-to-set difference can be significant. On the other hand, there is some merit to the idea that ignorance is bliss.

But I think we can all agree that arguing about it is pretty stupid...

I have no intention of argument, but I must state that I don't agree with the response to jimwhite's post.

I believe that his intent was, that if the problem doesn't make itself readily apparent, why look for it? Once you see it... you will always see it and never be happy.

So... now that you know it's there and will always look for it, you will not be happy.

In the future, I'd suggest that if there are defecits that you anticipate with certain technologies, understand how you can test in the showroom (as best as possible) and make an informed decision before purchase, as opposed to coming for insight here and becoming indignant because someone states an opinon (that IMO, was not rude or "off base").

Again, I don't understand the cluelessness is best argument. You can't test your banding on the display unit. If you find it after 31 days, you will be unhappy. It might not show up in the shows you watch for 30 days. I'm not sure what your post is about. You have a 31 day trial to make sure you are happy with your expensive purchase. I am unable to test for banding before purchase, unless I could find a floor unit. I am not indignant. I am merely pointing out that testing your equipment isn't strange. It was done all the time on photo lens in the past. Why wouldn't you test out your equipment? Mine is well within my tolerances. I responded to the poster politely, but still wonder what the post achieves. Don't look for trouble.. Oh no. It is not in my best interest not to test while I have the chance to exchange. I came here for specific questions. Not for advise on not to test. I'm not a don't worry be happy type of guy. But I am happy with the hd part of the set. Still not all that fond of the sd image. I am feel more secure knowing that I tested my equipment. Just like I used to test my photo equipment. I honestly think responding to a question about testing with a reply of don't test, you might find something bad, more then silly.

I have no intention of argument, but I must state that I don't agree with the response to jimwhite's post.

I believe that his intent was, that if the problem doesn't make itself readily apparent, why look for it? Once you see it... you will always see it and never be happy.

So... now that you know it's there and will always look for it, you will not be happy.

In the future, I'd suggest that if there are defecits that you anticipate with certain technologies, understand how you can test in the showroom (as best as possible) and make an informed decision before purchase, as opposed to coming for insight here and becoming indignant because someone states an opinon (that IMO, was not rude or "off base").

Okay....
Enjoy your HDTV!

I've never seen an LCD HDTV that had ZERO banding. The one I have now has some minor banding in one part of the picture but I love the set so much for everything else I don't want to take it back just to get a worse set.

Hopefully the one you have is within the tolerable range. One time I bought a Samsung that had it SO bad you could see the banding on people's faces as they turned their heads.... THAT'S unacceptable.

I have a 46INCH d92u in its got NONE all grays are SOLID

Have a look at the old NEC LCD 1960NXi (2004). No banding issues at all. Every computer generated (not video) ramp is flawlessly smooth. It is an S-IPS panel. Yes, it is old, only 19", 1280x1024 (good enough for 720p) but it does quite well with video despite the "spec'ed" 25ms response time.

This thread is hilarious, I have banding on my new panny 50 g25 series. Lol
Gonna go back in 2 days.

You got to also watch out how you calibrate your screen or set the colors to acceptable levels if the originals are off. The calibration process can cause banding to appear more or less for a screen.
I noticed that my own LCD monitor a LG L245WP-BN p-mva at standard native screen osd settings had basically none banding but just the smallest that is not noticeable. There were a a few to be counted on one hand of single line obvious banding on some few color gradients that you basically never saw in general usage. From one color to another I created them in Gimp to check for if it was banding or just the video in concern.(most of the times it was compression issues with the videos that caused banding)
It was basically a non issue in the larger sense like that. BUT! if contrast... or RGB values were changed from native you instantly got more banding. The more you changed the more they came about.

I had to use CCC color settings first as those didn't make new bandings to appear as it also gave me some image tweaking capabilities. Later I changed to powerstrip as it worked the same way with not giving banding with the changes but with better capabilities. Other applications I noticed most just caused detrimental image quality with horrible banding as you changed the settings. I concluded not all applications did the changes the same way and some were really sloppy.

I would recommend just creating various color gradients with the "gradient" tool in a image program as GIMP as you have your tv connected to your computer. This way you can test various color transitions etc and see all and any problems that may be with colors in general.