I've heard the newer stuff from ML, but was wondering if the older equipment is still good compared to todays market. Mainly the 2 channel pre and power amps. I'm talking stuff like the 38 and 38s pre. Or the 3xx series power amps.

I listened to quite a few "new" amps before buying my old Levinson 336.

There were subtle (and major) differences between the brands (and even models within the brand lines) however I don't think that it was related to the date the units were manufactured in. Each brand has a house sound which is quite recognizable if you spend some time with them.

FWIW - I auditioned McCormack, PASS, the new Levinson 4xx series, Musical Fidelity, Classe and a few others. These are all excellent amplifiers! However, I felt the 336 did the best job of moving my system in the direction that I wanted it to.

It also has a very solid resale history - which is something to consider IMO because eventually we will all probably be selling our gear for something bigger/better/pricier.

I don't have much experience with the Levinson pre's.

Good luck with your search.

My experience is that the one place you can make a great deal is on an older amp. I have compared 20 year old amps that are still within a hair of current amps. Yes, there are improvements but they are usually smaller in scale. I do not have any experience with older Levinson gear. Pre-amps are another story. I hear significant differences between the most current designs and older models. Audio Research REF3 compared to a 10 year old AR for example.

Thanks guys. Putting together a "high end" system without a high end budget should be a nice experience. The used market can yield some good deals.

I used to have ML 27, 332 and 335 before my Audionet AMP II Max amps, and I can tell You that they all had very different kind of sound, here is a short summary from _my_ experience:

ML 27: a bit grainy, not so much resolution, but IMHO very very sweet sounding amp, I still regret that I sold it.

ML 332: Original 332 is completely different animal compared to 2X and 3XX.5 series amps, the most striking feature was very sharp and "glassy" bass section, in a good way. These old 332´s (at least in Europe) tended to have some problems with PSU´s, and after the cap replacement (with the newer 3xx line caps), the bass sound was not the same anymore, there was more resolution overall, but the bass became also more soft/elegant. If You are considering to buy a old 332, please check first if the power sections capacitors have been changed, I have a feeling that if not, sooner or later You will face a situation with the cap replacement. I still think that the cap replacement (while adding some resolution and finesse) was not good for the bass sound.

335: more elegant, a bit more soft and a bit darker sound, in the same time having more resolution.

Overall these 3xx series amps are the last workhorses in ML line, they can virtually drive any load.

Hope this helps,

Br,

Ari-Martti

You might want to take into account that older ML amps, while a wide bandwidth design, also had quite poor (diminutive) phase margins. This wreaked havoc when used speakers whose loads were signficantly non-resistive as well as any cables that had signficant capacitance. IOW, there were indeed audible consequences to which you can append your favorite term. Like poorly designed.

Unless you can get this kind of information from either reviews or the manufacturer, I'd stay away from anything made during the ML and to some extent, the Madrigal days.

How about the 33H and 33 amps - how well do they compare to today's stuff?

Mark

Thanks for the responses guys. I have read mixed reviews about the ML amps. And I am aware for the cap problems with the older 3xx series. If I decide to go ML I will make sure that the caps are replaced. I'm also looking at Classe and Krell.

In many ways the best in audio is behind us as audio manufacturers now build speakers and amplifiers for home theater and have a hard time selling anything at all in 2ch audio. I own a 334, among other amplifiers, and in my opinion ML is not making better amplifiers today.

Hi

I do not subscribe to the best is behind us.. I have been hearing since I was a kid... Yesterday's car were soooo much better than today's junk... These junks, which consume so much less are so much more reliable and so much more powerful... ;)
I do however will concede that the differences in Amplifiers is not that great and it could be said that progress in amps are far and few... I have not heard the latest ML, I can not comment.