I have been carefully going through a bunch of my favorite channels on the Verizon FIOS TV service and seeing which ones are 5C protected.

My thanks to the folks who put together the Firewire recording Thread which made this possible.


I can record all the stations with Capdvhs but it is obvious when a channel has encryption turned on because the resolution field and the others in CapDVHS will be blank.
Also, Tsreader will complain that it can not find a header when run on an encypted file.


Additionally, the online guides to the 64xx series dicsusses using the front panel to tell if a tuned in station has 5C turned on.

I need to clarify what is on those guides:
If a channel is 5C protected with MY version of the Motorola 6416, you can NOT use the 5C = 0 indicator on the "d11 INTERFACE STATUS" setting.
Mine always shows 0.

You need to go the "d06 CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS" where you will see each tuner listed.
Look for the CCI setting. There will be one for each tuner and if it is NON Zero, then 5C is turned on.

I am able to record live OR a previously recorded program while it is being played back.


This website has a link to my 5C and resolution testing spreadsheet but it is still a work in progress so is not complete yet.

http://southriver.web.aplus.net/

Few comments about the spreadsheet:
1) There is a hidden column where I was putting in a subjecdtive PQ rating from 1 to 10.
It was merely to see the correlation between reolution/ data rate and what the picture looked like but I decided that it may cause some disagreements so I hid it.

2) Note MTVHD's Resolution and bit rate. I watched a live concert on that channel and the PQ was on a par with a Blu ray/HD DVD recording.

3) Reminder that this was for the Anne Arundel County FIOS. It would be interesting for someone else to see how much my spreadsheet correlates with what they see in their area.



My next step is to borrow a firewire STB that is 5C compliant and see if the 5C programs that I record will play properly on my TV.
I have a Mits Dvhs which I can use for this test.

I would be interested in any comments.

Thanks,
Joe

Well, I'm in Flower Mound, TX. I've not done this extensive of testing, but I can tell you that everything I want to record for archiving (the 6 HD movie channels mostly) are 5C. So my D-VHS machines get quite a workout. :D

Dave

Well, I'm in Flower Mound, TX. I've not done this extensive of testing, but I can tell you that everything I want to record for archiving (the 6 HD movie channels mostly) are 5C. So my D-VHS machines get quite a workout. :D

Dave

My 5C compliant MITS D-VHS does not have component or HDMI for output (It is Firewire only.
To be able to use it for the 5C channels, I am trying to decide whether to feed it to an HDTV Tuner STB like the discontinued Samsung T165 OR get a JVC D-VHS.


What D-VHS machine do you use?

My 5C compliant MITS D-VHS does not have component or HDMI for output (It is Firewire only.
To be able to use it for the 5C channels, I am trying to decide whether to feed it to an HDTV Tuner STB like the discontinued Samsung T165 OR get a JVC D-VHS.


What D-VHS machine do you use?

For the projector, I use a Mitsu 2K/30K combo but I may pick up a 5U. For the downstairs TV, I use a Mitsu 2K and the TV's firewire port. :)

I agree that it is a pain, but $350-400 for a Mitsu and a JVC is not that expensive to be able to archive any HD you want. With Verizon, my HD copies are darn close to HD DVD/BD movies on the ones I've compared (with the exception of audio), the major difference being the occasional (but in no way constant) compression artifacts. And many great movies like The Incredibles have yet to be available in HD in any other way. So, $350 to me seems like a bargain. :)

Dave

For the projector, I use a Mitsu 2K/30K combo but I may pick up a 5U. For the downstairs TV, I use a Mitsu 2K and the TV's firewire port. :)

I agree that it is a pain, but $350-400 for a Mitsu and a JVC is not that expensive to be able to archive any HD you want. With Verizon, my HD copies are darn close to HD DVD/BD movies on the ones I've compared (with the exception of audio), the major difference being the occasional (but in no way constant) compression artifacts. And many great movies like The Incredibles have yet to be available in HD in any other way. So, $350 to me seems like a bargain. :)

Dave


Can you please clarify what you mean by the Mits 2K/30K combo?
I am a bit lost on that one.

I believe I left this part out of my posts - My MITS is the 2K.

Are you recording with the Mits 2K and then playing it back throught the JVC 30K?


Using the front panel controls to display the Dx settings,Can you also tell me what the CCI flag is set to for the protected channels on the "d06 CURRENT CHANNEL STATUS" ?
Mine shows up as CCI=02 and this does concern me since that means 'Copy Never'


I am not really intersted in archiving but rather my interest in recording is to free up disk space from the DVR's disk .
I have only been with Verizon for a week but have already filled the Moto 6416's disk.
I was surprised about this but when one considers that the DVR has a smaller disk compared to my now disconnected Directv HR10-250 HDTIVO plus the files are a LOT bigger due to the considerably less compressed data than from Directv, it makes perfect sense.


In regards to PQ, Directv's increasingly compressed signal is precisely why I switched to Verizon after being with Directv for 10 years.

Their High def picture was a joke so I cut back my service to the bare minium and used the savings to bump up my Netflix subscription since I have both the Samsung Blu-Ray and the Toshiba A1 HDDVD.


Take a look at the resolution and bit rates that I put in my spreadsheet.
Those numbers say it all as to why Verizon's PQ is so great.

That MTV station had a concert showing and I was blown away.
It was on a par with High Def DVD recordings.

Standard Defimition looks a WHOLE lot better as well. I could not record from the SCIFI channel to run tsreader on it to get the resolution and bit rate but it looks great and I watch that station a lot.

If you could answer my 2 questions, I sure would appeciate it.


Thanks,
Joe

Can you please clarify what you mean by the Mits 2K/30K combo?
I am a bit lost on that one.

I believe I left this part out of my posts - My MITS is the 2K.

Are you recording with the Mits 2K and then playing it back throught the JVC 30K?

First, know this, once you get the hang of it, it is not THAT bad. The Verizon/Mitsu/JVC combo works, but it can be a pain in the a$$.

Background

The mitsubishi is a way better VCR than the JVC--way better. They are longer lived, more reliable, and better performing.

The JVC 30K has audio buffer problems. D-Theater tapes always play perfect, but tapes you record will have occasional audio drop outs. Rewind the tape and play again-no audio drop out. It is intermitent and unpredictable.

The Mitsubishi has one major shortcoming as you noted--no MPEG2 decoder. However, the JVC D-VHS machines will act as decoders for anything coming in on the firewire port.

So, I use the Mitsu for all recording and playback. I use the JVC to be an MPEG2 decoder for the mitsu and to play D-Theater tapes.

Connections

The connections look like this:

6416 (out firewire) -> (in firewire) Mitsu 2k (out firewire) -> (in firewire) JVC (out component)

If you get a JVC 5U, it also has an HDMI port you can use for output.

Recording

Timer recordings: you can't do timer recordings on the VCR. D-VHS machines do not allow timers to be set for firewire recording--they are controllable through the firewire port, so the tuner is supposed to control this. The 6416 will not do this. So, no timer recordings. If you want a timer recording, you have to get the Radio Shack cheesy timer remote they made for old people.

When recording with this combo, the JVC must be off. If both D-VHS machines are on, you will get an error on copy once content because you may be making 2 copies (genius really, especially since you can copy the same content from your DVR 1000 times->note sarcasm).

I dump mostly from the DVR to tape. Some important things to know about doing this:
1) The Motorola 6416 is a huge piece of sh!t.
2) The Verizon software that runs on the 6416 is a huge piece of sh!t.
3) The combo of verizon software and motorola hardware is the biggest POS consumer electronics nightmare you have ever had in your house.
4) You will have many problems because this POS is living in your house and you will get absolutely no help from Verizon because there is not one Verizon tech support person that understands their software or knows what "firewire" is.

So, I'm going to try to save you some pain and tell you all I know. :)

Lets talk about some of the problems with the POS STB:
1) You can incorrectly get the "Copy Never" flag on content (I bet this is what you are seeing). To fix this, you must unplug and plug back in the box to reboot it (hence referred to as rebooting). It will clear this problem. I've had several DVR recordings that wouldn't dump until rebooting.

2) After you successfully dump one movie from DVR to tape, subsequent ones you dump will have a good chance of having audio sync issues and frame dropping. You must reboot the box to clear the issue and get another good recording.

3) If you start to play content from the DVR and FF to get to the beginning of the content (since recording starts early) you may get the problems described in number 2.

4) The motorola box gets hot. It needs a fan, but they didn't install one. When it gets hot, it will start pixelating and have audio drop outs and they will be on your tape.

To solve number 4, you need lots and lots of space around them, or computer case fans cooling it (which is what I do).

OK, so you are all connected and want to dump from the DVR to the tape. Here is the only foolproof procedure (assuming you've kept the box cool):
1) Ensure the JVC VCR is turned off.
2) Reboot the 6416.
3) Wait 2-10 minutes for it to reboot and load its program guide (even though you want at the DVR content that is recorded locally, the software is so poorly written that it won't let you get to that until it has completely reloaded the program guide)
Note: If they guide takes longer than about 10 minutes to load or never reloads, you need to power cycle the NIM. The NIM is either built into your router, or a seperate box connected to it. You will need to do this once or twice per year.
4) With the fios box rebooted and turned on (program guide doesn't have to be loaded yet), turn on the Mitsu.
5) Mitsu should be set to firewire input for FIOS (probably d1)
6) Load high quality S-VHS tape and push the D-VHS button.
7) Wait for it to do perfect tape thing if you have that turned on.
8) Pull up your DVR recording and select the one you want on tape.
9) Start it playing. Do not fast forward to the beginning of the actual content.
10) If you selected the wrong DVR recording by mistake and actually want to dump something else, go to step 2.
11) When it gets to the point you want to start recording, push the "record" button on the mitsu.
12) Come back when it is done and spot check the recording to make sure it is OK (if you followed my steps, it will be fine 99.9999% of the time).

Playback

The JVC firewire port is picky. If my fios is on, the JVC "sees" that. When I then turn on the Mitsu D-VHS it says "too many ilink devices." If the Mitsu is on, the JVC sees it. If I then turn on the fios, the JVC sees it too and is happy with 2 devices. But, if I switch it between the 2 devices, it will lose its mind at some point and say "too many ilink devices".

So, to playback a tape you have recorded, do the following:
1) Ensure the 6416 and Mitsubishi 2K are off.
2) Turn on the JVC, what for it to come up (about 3 seconds) then tune the firewire to the Mitsu device (it should always be on the mitsu, so it should come up that way).
3) Turn on the mitsubishi
4) Load tape and play

I am not really intersted in archiving

Ah, when you start seeing some of the HD movies you can get, you'll start archiving. I've got The Incredibles, Cars, Madagascar, all 6 Star Wars movies, other kids movies (Nanny McPhee, Monster House, Inspector Gadget, etc) and much much more in HD. Very few people have great HD versions of most of these movies. So you'll want to do it. :)

Good luck. Like I said, not for the faint of heart, but when you want to watch The Incredibles in HD, it is worth it.

Dave

I really appreciate the time you took to write such detailed information and the very concise 'Instruction Manual'

I am quite impressed that you figured out that you needed to reboot the 6416 to get the 5C flag correct. Or it was luck :)

Thanks!!

Before I go out and buy a JVC Dvhs, I was wondering if you have ever considered playing the Mits recordings into a firewire enabled STB and skipping the JVC?

It seems to me that if the JVC is being used as a 5C compliant mpeg2 playback device, then an OTA STB should serve the same purpose and with a lot less hassle.

They are hard to find now but something like the Samsumg T-165 seems like it would do the trick.

I will let you know how my 'saga' goes.

Joe

I really appreciate the time you took to write such detailed information and the very concise 'Instruction Manual'

I am quite impressed that you figured out that you needed to reboot the 6416 to get the 5C flag correct. Or it was luck :)

I've been fighting this for a year with pretty much no help. I have posted problems like the Copy Never and other stuff here and never get any response. So, my good nature wanted to save you the long hard road I've had.

Before I go out and buy a JVC Dvhs, I was wondering if you have ever considered playing the Mits recordings into a firewire enabled STB and skipping the JVC?

It seems to me that if the JVC is being used as a 5C compliant mpeg2 playback device, then an OTA STB should serve the same purpose and with a lot less hassle.

I have, but I had the JVC first and got the mitsu to have good recordings. Also, having the JVC lets me play D-Theater tapes and there are a few I like and watch sometimes.

Also, the SIR is not really much less hassel. The only hassel with the JVC is the order you turn things on, but that is typical with A/V firewire devices.

So, since the JVCs are plentiful and can be had for less than $200 used, I would probably do it again, though I've considered the SIR for some friends that might be interested in D-VHS recording.

They are hard to find now but something like the Samsumg T-165 seems like it would do the trick.

It would.

Dave

Oh, and on the luck thing. I have tried every possible thing to resolve the copy never and bad recordings after good recordings. Nothing worked. So what do you do when nothing else works? Reboot. So, as each problem presented itself, I would reboot and see if it went away. And it worked for almost all of them. The tough one was the program guide not reloading after a reboot. That one was tough. But since i have two 6416s, I did a test and rebooted the other one. The program guide would not come back on that one either. So I new it had to be upstream on the IP side (that is the side the program guide is on). So, I just went upstream power cycling components to see which one fixed it.

You may be starting to get a sense of the genesis of my frustration with Verizon/Motorola. I don't see how any "normal" person could be expected to do all this. My wife used to do software usability and UI design. After having a TiVo, all I hear is hear pointing out all the awful things about the DVR UI navigation and such. Somehow, my "but this is the best picture we can get" is starting to fall on deaf ears. I hope they deliver that new software soon and it actually works!

Dave

It is Amazing how fast this High Definition 'revolution' has evolved. What was HOT one year was being dumped for 1/4 of the price the following year.

My STB idea is a bust as i only found one or two that were EVER made that supported frewire and those are impossible to find to buy.
I remember the splash that the Samsung T165 made when it first apeared on the scene but noit one is to be found for sale anywhere.

Late 2003/early 2004 was THE year for big changes in the use of D-VHS and HDTV Tuners and then shortly therafter they virtually disapeared overnight.

That was just around the time that I bought my Mits 2000 which I did because those were the days of recording High Def from the DISH model 5000 with the ATSC modulator.



At least the JVC D-VHS models seems to have been a big seller back then as they are easy to find on Ebay.
I lost one bid on Ebay for the JVC 30K and now am bidding on another one.


One thing does worry me me a bit and maybe you can shed some light on this.
It has to do with a firmware modification to the JVC 30K.

Hope you do not mind my nosy questions. I would PM you but I think this topic is very useful to folks wanting to record 5c material form their 6416 DVR's.

What is the scoop with some kind of firmware update that JVC had to do to the 30K?
I have been unable to track down a serial number range because apparantly the earlier units had to be sent back to them to have it done but later units already gad it done.

Do you know anything about this and was your JVC 30K bought new or used? What year?



Obviously they won't do it now but I found some posts in 2004 on some forum were someone was asking if they had the firmware upgrade done.

It was asked in that forum what the firmware upgrade was for but no one answered.

Thanks

What is the scoop with some kind of firmware update that JVC had to do to the 30K?

One of the things the firmware was to fix was the audio drop outs on recorded material (see my above post). It helps, but it doesn't fix it entirely, you will still get audio dropouts a few times during a movie if played back on the 30K. The 40K is a bit less reliable than the 30K (hard to believe something could be less reliable!) but already has this "fix" in that it uses a different chip.

The 5Us tend to go for a little more, but they were better all around and have HDMI output so that is also an option. But they also have audio drop outs. JVC=Audio dropouts.

For some reason I think there was a 5C issue that was also fixed with the firmware. But I'm not sure.

Do you know anything about this and was your JVC 30K bought new or used? What year?

My JVC was a refurb so had the update installed.

Anyway, if you use the JVC like I do (decoder for the Mitsu and occasional D-Theater), then it doesn't matter. You will do all recording and playback on the mitsu. The firmward doesn't make the JVC any better of an MPEG2 decoder.

Dave

You may be starting to get a sense of the genesis of my frustration with Verizon/Motorola. I don't see how any "normal" person could be expected to do all this. My wife used to do software usability and UI design. After having a TiVo, all I hear is hear pointing out all the awful things about the DVR UI navigation and such. Somehow, my "but this is the best picture we can get" is starting to fall on deaf ears. I hope they deliver that new software soon and it actually works!

Dave

" I don't see how any "normal" person could be expected to do all this"

This is a question that I ask myself all the time when I am fiddling with my Home Theater stuff and I believe that 'Firedog' , 'Magnolia Theater' and the popularity of Tweeter arose from the need to help people with this ever increasingly complicated HDTV stuff.

I need to keep wiring diagrams and self written documentation just to keep my head on straight but thankfully, all I have to do is teach family members how to use the Universal remote.


A little anecdotal story.
When the Verizon FIOS installer was at my house last week and I was talking to him about how the ONT worked, he said to me:
"I have been doing Cable and Satellite installations for over 10 years and have seen it all.
All that people care about is knowing that when they turn their TV on, they will get a picture. They don't know or care to know how it works - they just want a picture to come on.
They believe everything that the TV sales people tells them and the only reason that they buy these Plasma or LCD flat screens is because they are the thing to have "

He haa a DLP TV,BTW.

It was not intended as an insult to people but he was merely telling me what his rather extensive experience had shown him what John Q Public truly cared about when it comes to TV.
I found that to be very interesting. We in avsforum are busy counting pixels and complaining about bands only seen in a Service mode yet 99.9% of the popuylation just wants to watch TV.

Sorry for ther OT ramble but that Verizon FIOS installer gave me a perspective that I wanted to pass on.


Back on topic: About the Uer INterface on this 6416.

I too was used to the great functionality of a TIVO because I had the HDTIVO for Directv which I paid top doillar for when it first came out.

Except for it being REALLY,REALLy slow, it was a perfect example of how things should look, feel and work in a DVR.

Granted, I have only had this thing for a little over 2 weeks now but I am not finding the 6416's useability to be all that bad (not counting the small disk) except for the annoying queueing up of the Skip forward /Backward key presses.

I must admit though that IF the Tivo Series 3 had a way of getting the shows out of it via frewire or Ethernet, I would be using that as my PVR.

Joe

Granted, I have only had this thing for a little over 2 weeks now but I am not finding the 6416's useability to be all that bad (not counting the small disk) except for the annoying queueing up of the Skip forward /Backward key presses.

Well, it is not COMPLETELY unusable, but much of its navigation goes against UI standards and is pretty cludgy by 2007 standards. I can't think of an electronics device currently available with a worse interface. Have you found the things like searches you can only do after you have done a search? WTF? Also, you go in to back a boolean choice and you make it, but you still have to select "done". Think of if every dialog on your computer that was OK/Cancel made you select that, then select "done". Also, have you noticed that navigation behavior in these circumstances is inconsistent. Sometimes you have to navigate back from the right to the left (to select done), sometimes it does it for you. Also, when you navigate from the left side to the right side, it frequently chooses by default what is easily the least common option (again bad UI design).

Now, you might think that because it is essentially useful this is nitpicking, but this is 2007, it should be better and we as consumers should demand better. Apathy really annoys me. :)

I must admit though that IF the Tivo Series 3 had a way of getting the shows out of it via frewire or Ethernet, I would be using that as my PVR.


Ditto. I have no idea what they were thinking and I've told them this on more than one occasion--letting them know they have lost a sale because of this.

Dave

Funny how this thread morphed into a completely different topic but nonetheless, it is very useful info for how to do 5C recordings.


I have a bid on a JVC 30K on ebay that is ending today. UNless I end up bidding against a wacko, I am prepared to win this item. If you catch my drift.

I did not see the JVC HMDH5U listed until today. Not sure how I missed it.


What do you think of this item:
http://cgi.*********/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150126371975&ih=005&category=3318&ssPageName=:IT

Would this simplify the whole process that you laid out for me and not require me to use my Mits 20K deck?

You said that you were interested in this model so if I do decide to let the 30K auction lose, are you going to be bidding on this? If so, I will NOT.

Besides, I gave you enough info to figure out my ebay user name :)

Lets talk about some of the problems with the POS STB:
1) You can incorrectly get the "Copy Never" flag on content (I bet this is what you are seeing). To fix this, you must unplug and plug back in the box to reboot it (hence referred to as rebooting). It will clear this problem. I've had several DVR recordings that wouldn't dump until rebooting.

Dave


Dave - I really appreciate your taking all the time to answer my myriad of questions.
The "recording from firewire thread" is a zillion pages long and no one ever took the time to go into this level of detail.
I am not knocking them as that thread has become like a small room with 100 people all shouting questions at once.

In here, I have a room with only 2 people in it even thougn I am sure a bunch are reading because there is info here on how to record 5C material that is nowhere else.

On to my question:

I was looking at the Service menu (power off,hit select twice) under the "d11 INTERFACE STATUS"

As you well know, the 5C status is indicated by the CCI flag for each tuner in that d11 display.

I often see that the CCI flag is set to 02 instead of 01.
Is this the problem you are referring to which requires a reboot or am I 'screwed' on being able to record,even with the JVC combo?

I did a reboot and it stays at 02.

02 means copy never, as I recall.
Most of the copy protected stations that I show in my spreadsheet show CCI as being equal to 01 but now I am starting to worry about those that are set to 02.

Comments?

The JVC 40K thjat I got off of Ebay arrived yesterday and I have now had a chance to put it through it's paces.

It records and plays back all of the channels from the 6416 including those that have the 5C flag set.

This of course was the expected result but I am please to say that it does work great.


I have the 6416 and my PC connected to the JVC and they are coexisting just fine.
The JVC is acting as the 1394 hub.

As I write this, I am recording NGCHD (it is not encrypted) via Capdvhs to my PC at the same time that the JVC is recording the same show.

I just wanted to see how well this would work which is why I picked an unencrypted channel for Capdvhs.

The big test was to record DISCHD which has the 5C flag set to 02 onto the JVC 40K.

Worked like a champ!

The only kicker is that the non high def channels come off of the JVC as 480i.
The JVC has a menu setting to convert 720P to 1080i or just pass everything in it's native mode.

My Denon receiver will do 480P upconversion so I will be configureing the JVC on that path.

So far I have not seen any of the handshake issues that Dave was discussing but perhaps this is because this is te Model 40000 which is supposed to be more stable.

Joe

So far I have not seen any of the handshake issues that Dave was discussing but perhaps this is because this is te Model 40000 which is supposed to be more stable.

Joe

I have friends with 40Ks that have issues. You have a fairly simple firewire bus going there, so you may avoid it. If you throw the Mitsu onto the bus, I bet you see issues.

Speaking of the Mitsu, are you not using it to record and playback and just using the 40K as an MPEG2 decoder? I've never seen a JVC (30K, 40K, or 5U) perform as well as the 2000U.

Dave

I have friends with 40Ks that have issues. You have a fairly simple firewire bus going there, so you may avoid it. If you throw the Mitsu onto the bus, I bet you see issues.

Speaking of the Mitsu, are you not using it to record and playback and just using the 40K as an MPEG2 decoder? I've never seen a JVC (30K, 40K, or 5U) perform as well as the 2000U.

Dave

I have only had this one day so my testing has been limited but I have been reading and writing to the 40K.

I did make a short test recording last night with the MITS and tried it in the 40K but then I could not remember why I was bothering:)

When I came back here to post my results, I re-read your message about all the problems you had and then remembered.
Doh!

First, know this, once you get the hang of it, it is not THAT bad. The Verizon/Mitsu/JVC combo works, but it can be a pain in the a$$.

Dave

I have finally gotten the JVC decks that I bought on Ebay and have had a chance to get everything hooked up.

Besides the MITS that you already know I have , the decks I bought off of ebay were the JVC 30K and JVC 40K.

My plan was to decide which one liked the best and then sell the other back on ebay.
However, since I only paid around $220 for the 30K, I decided to keep them both so I now have a spare.

I read all your directions very carefully but thought I would first try an all JVC setup first.



I have both the 30k and the 40K hooked to my Denon receiver (Unique Component inputs and optcal inputs) so all I have to do to use either one is to move the 1394 connector on the back of the desk.

I am looking into a 1394 hub to see if I can skip this step and get around the "too many devices" message that I did see as you warned me about.


I have had a chance to make 3 recordings from the the High Def stations on the 6416 using the 30K and 1 on the 40K and have watched 1 from each of them.
They were perfect. Do not recall any major glitches on playback.

So, I must admit that I did not folllow your directions to the letter and am now curious as to why I had such good luck.

I do use only D-VHS tapes because I had some trouble with dropouts in the past when using S-VHS tapes with the MIITS deck.

Is it possible that using the higher quality tapes and having a very 'barebones' hook up as well as not using any SW for control but simply the remote control for record/playback has made this work better?

Ideas?


Thanks

EDIT: You made a comment a month ago that I would probably change my tune about not using this setuup for archiving. You are right.

I read all your directions very carefully but thought I would first try an all JVC setup first.



I'm not sure why you want to do this. YOu will guaranteed have more audio drop outs than if you use the Mitsu.

I have both the 30k and the 40K hooked to my Denon receiver (Unique Component inputs and optcal inputs) so all I have to do to use either one is to move the 1394 connector on the back of the desk.

Not sure why you have both unless you are dubbing but don't have them hooked up that way. Further, I don't know why you are moving the firewire connector. You can hook both directly to the QIP6416 or daisy chain them.

I am looking into a 1394 hub to see if I can skip this step and get around the "too many devices" message that I did see as you warned me about.

The "too many devices" message is because of the crappy firewire software in them. You do not have too many devices and a hub will not fix it.

The best way to never see the "too many devices" is to follow my connection and power on instructions. But, you are free to experiment to see what works for you.

I have had a chance to make 3 recordings from the the High Def stations on the 6416 using the 30K and 1 on the 40K and have watched 1 from each of them.
They were perfect. Do not recall any major glitches on playback.

Congrats, you got lucky with the 2 tapes. It happens.

So, I must admit that I did not folllow your directions to the letter and am now curious as to why I had such good luck.


I do use only D-VHS tapes because I had some trouble with dropouts in the past when using S-VHS tapes with the MIITS deck.

You can spend the money but the BQ series Maxell, XP Pro from TDK, and H471s from Fuji all work as well.

IIs it possible that using the higher quality tapes and having a very 'barebones' hook up as well as not using any SW for control but simply the remote control for record/playback has made this work better?

Not in my experience. Keep recording and playing, you'll get audio drop outs. Also, depending upon how much you record, you'll wear out/break a JVC long before the Mitsu.

So, I must admit that I did not folllow your directions to the letter and am now curious as to why I had such good luck.

Something just dawned on me. Are you making these recordings live or from a recording on the DVR? If live, yes, those don't have problems and don't require a QIP6416 reboot. I rarely do them live. My big long instructions were for dumping from DVR.

Joe Q,

I just found this thread. Thank you for publishing your findings, especially with regard to bitrates. I would expect the locals to vary depending on what the broadcaster is doing, but I hope you will report any changes in bitrate you see on NGCHD, MTVHD, FOODHD, and HGTV with the addition of new, high-def channels later this year.

I found this thread extremely useful when it came to explaining how to dump HD feed from a VZ FIOS DVR to D-VHS decks.

If the mods are listening, could this thread be made a sticky? :)

I found this thread extremely useful when it came to explaining how to dump HD feed from a VZ FIOS DVR to D-VHS decks.

If the mods are listening, could this thread be made a sticky? :)

Been awhile since I posted in here because I am happily recordig to my D-VHS decks.
No probs == nothing to say


I see you have the MITS as do I.

Make sure you keep your hands on it. As you know, if the transport mechanism on the JVC goes splat,you can always use the JVC as the Mpeg2 decoder for the MITS.

I ended up getting both the JVC 30K and 40K on Ebay. Really good price and it allows me to watch from one deck while recording live or dumping a recording from the Verizon QIP-6416


People always said the build quality of the JVC decks were not so hot and the MITS was better.

They all seem the same to me (I have the MITS 20000 in adddition to my recent ebay JVC 30K/40K purchases)
By same, I mean all 3 seem a bt flimsy so I do treat them very gently.
I have both of them in a 2 shelf book case which is open in the front and back for good air flow.
I use the MITS to do the tape rewinding.