I'm a long time AVSForum fan - since I bought my ReplayTVs years ago. I've got the HD bug and have tried AT&T Uverse, and the feature set is great - but it just doesn't work yet. After reading here and elsewhere, I decided to try Dish. The ViP622 HD DVR supports two locations (record everything in HD and play back on HDTV or on my upstairs SDTV). Perfect. I tried ordering and gave up. Now I'm here whining about it to save some of my friends here some pain (or give you something to laugh at). From my post on DBSTalk:


Online ordering is messed up and Dish won't honor the prices and hasn't fixed it

Forgive the drama, but I've spent hours trying to sign up for Dish and finally had to give up. I'm hoping anybody considering signing up will listen to my advice and reconsider. I'm very patient and have low expectations for customer support. I'm a good tipper in restaurants etc. and embarass my family by frequently telling people who give us good service that I appreciate it.

And then I tried to sign up for Dish online and requested:
Top 100 $29.99
HD $20
Locals $5
Equipment Fees $10.98 for
HDTV with DVR
SDTV with DVR
HDTV without DVR
SDTV without DVR
It showed a ViP622, ViP211 and DP311
10 months of mail-in rebate -$20
Monthly total of $45.97 (for the first 10 months)

If you go in before they get around to fixing their buggy online ordering system, you can see the same thing. I've got screenshots which I've offered to fax, but customer support didn't need them - they see the same thing.

I ordered 5/24 and printed out my Order Summary and Certificate. It tells you to call back or go online and chat if you don't receive a confirmation email within 24 hours. I didn't, so I chatted with someone on 5/25 and after 20 minutes of frustration with "your order has not been processed yet", I decided to give it another day. On 5/26 I repeated the exercise and after another 20 minutes, I had to go have a beer and cheer up. I tried again that night for another 40 minutes (at this point I was keeping track and taking notes) only to get the same "your order has been not been processed, no confirmation email for you".

I was away for two days and came home to messages from the installer. They had been to my house. I still didn't have an email confirmation. I was tempted to just reschedule, but after 20 minutes pursuing that, I decided to first confirm what I had ordered. After 65 minutes of getting bounced around between people who said "I don't have access to your account or that information" etc I got through to a real person on the phone who could listen to what I was saying and answer questions. Sure enough, they had the wrong hardware and the wrong price. I told her what I had ordered. She too was able to go online and configure what I requested and saw the price. She said that was an error. She was unable to give me the the online price. I explained my frustration and asked to cancel. She politely transferred me to someone to cancel....

And I got another painful support person who wanted to start from the beginning.....

I really wanted to go with Dish. If someone had emailed or been able to help me early on, I would have even paid the higher price. After the painful customer support experience, I just can't bring myself to pay more than what it still shows online. Thank you for reading this far. You can consider me an isolated case (or nutjob) and presume your experience will be more like one of the happy customers here.

If you're a huge fan of Dish, feel free to share my experience with anyone there who could improve things.

You could have this same experience with any corporation of equivalent size.

It's now gotten big enough that the original employees from 10-12 years ago are now separated from the actual service reps by many layers of bureaucracy.

TWC is a pain also
:(

OTA is lots easier (in most locations) and no CSR's, commitments, or monthly payments ;) .

Out of curiosity, what was the "correct" price? This sounds like a similar setup that I'm thinking about signing up for.

And no premium HD channels, unfortunately unless you just want locals, OTA isn't going to fill all your needs. I do too recommend it for locals since it usually offers the best PQ and has the other listed benefits. :)

Equipment Fees $10.98 for
HDTV with DVR
SDTV with DVR
HDTV without DVR
SDTV without DVR
It showed a ViP622, ViP211 and DP311

All this is a little confusing in the way you list it.

The 622 HD-DVR has an HD output and an SD output, each of which can be controlled entirely by separate remotes, both of which can watch HD channels (but the SD outputs only in SD). It has 2 HD satellite tuners and 1 HD OTA tuner. So, the ordering process may have combined two TV viewing stations into that one DVR.

The 211 is a one output HD receiver, and the 311 is a one output SD receiver. I think there is an announced 222 which has both in one box, which might save fees in the long run. I'm not sure when that is actually available.

With this complicated equipment, you have to start with:
- How many TVs ?
- How many simultaneous viewers watching different programs ?

and then look at the capabilities of the products.

I actually recommend that new subscribers contact a major on-line Dish Network retailer. I would mention names, but none of them are Sponsors of this site, so I think it likely that would be frowned on.

I actually recommend that new subscribers contact a major on-line Dish Network retailer. I would mention names, but none of them are Sponsors of this site, so I think it likely that would be frowned on.Or just go to one of the two major stores that carries it. One of them has the word "rad" in it's name, and the other has the word "ears". I got mine through the first one, and I had no problems at all - even with the rebates in the deal.

I knew exactly what I wanted beforehand, so I just went in there and "told" them what I wanted, and they didn't even bother to try and talk me into getting anything else.

I knew exactly what I wanted beforehand, so I just went in there and "told" them what I wanted, and they didn't even bother to try and talk me into getting anything else.

Not even a new phone ? :rolleyes:

... or batteries? :D

I totally hear your gripes about DISH. I was with them for a little over a year and I had terrible customer service the entire time. The insisted on charging me the $5 fee for not having a phone line every month. Catch was, I did have a phone line hooked up to it, that worked, and passed all of their diagnostic tests. They told me every time that they would make a note on my account to discontinue charing me for this. Of course, I had to call every month and explain the situation to a new rep accomplish the same tasks, and listen to the same promises. It really wears on you.

The kicker for me was that I got the HD DVR when I signed up (which I had to $300 for) and three months later they switched to MPEG4. Therefore I needed a new HD DVR to receive the majority of the HD content. They offered a BS deal where I could give them my $300 box back (of course they keep the money) and then pay them another $200 for the upgraded box. It took me a couple of months to convince myself to take it up the tailpipe and when I finally came around they were unwilling to do it. It was going to cost me about $500 to upgrade. Ahhhhhhhh!

So, I reluctantly hobbled back to crappy cable. Now I'm waiting to see if Direct TV can deliver on their big HD promise or if I'll ever get fiber where I live.

The insisted on charging me the $5 fee for not having a phone line every month. Catch was, I did have a phone line hooked up to it, that worked, and passed all of their diagnostic tests.Do you (or did you when you had Dish) have dial-up internet service? In your Dish menu, you can set what time the tuner is to "check in" with them each day. If you have dial-up, and happen to be on the internet at the time when the tuner is set to make the required DAILY call, the call cannot be made. If the call is not regularly (daily) being made, they assume it is just not hooked up - or at least count it as such.

You have to set the "call-in" time for some overnight hour or whenever, when there is absolutely no chance that someone could be tying up the phone line.

Don't know if that was your problem, but just pointing it out for anyone who's not aware.

The 211 is a one output HD receiver, and the 311 is a one output SD receiver. I think there is an announced 222 which has both in one box, which might save fees in the long run. I'm not sure when that is actually available.
The new 222 is available starting Friday:ViP222 Launch
The introduction of the ViP222 as an eligible HD receiver model for all sales channels is scheduled for June 1, 2007. The ViP222 is a dual-tuner receiver that supports one HDTV and one SDTV.

ViP222 Product Description
ViP222 is an advanced MPEG-4 dual tuner high definition satellite receiver providing the ability to view independent programming on two televisions.



§ MPEG-4/MPEG-2 technology
• Two HD/SD satellite tuners1
• Digital off-air tuner1
• Two independent TVs supported
– TV1 HDTV or SDTV
– TV2 SDTV
• HDTV digital audio/video output2
• USB 2.0 port3
• Ethernet port3
• DishHOME Interactive TV
• Parental locks
• On-screen Caller ID4
• Up to 2-day Picture-In-Guide with optional
widescreen Electronic Program Guide
(EPG)
• Software upgradeable via satellite
• DishCOMM™ compatible3
• DISH Pro Plus compatible
• Remote controls (2)

I'm a long time AVSForum fan - since I bought my ReplayTVs years ago. I've got the HD bug and have tried AT&T Uverse, and the feature set is great - but it just doesn't work yet. After reading here and elsewhere, I decided to try Dish. The ViP622 HD DVR supports two locations (record everything in HD and play back on HDTV or on my upstairs SDTV). Perfect. I tried ordering and gave up. Now I'm here whining about it to save some of my friends here some pain (or give you something to laugh at). From my post on DBSTalk:


Online ordering is messed up and Dish won't honor the prices and hasn't fixed it

Forgive the drama, but I've spent hours trying to sign up for Dish and finally had to give up. I'm hoping anybody considering signing up will listen to my advice and reconsider. I'm very patient and have low expectations for customer support. I'm a good tipper in restaurants etc. and embarass my family by frequently telling people who give us good service that I appreciate it.

And then I tried to sign up for Dish online and requested:
Top 100 $29.99
HD $20
Locals $5
Equipment Fees $10.98 for
HDTV with DVR
SDTV with DVR
HDTV without DVR
SDTV without DVR
It showed a ViP622, ViP211 and DP311
10 months of mail-in rebate -$20
Monthly total of $45.97 (for the first 10 months)

If you go in before they get around to fixing their buggy online ordering system, you can see the same thing. I've got screenshots which I've offered to fax, but customer support didn't need them - they see the same thing.

I ordered 5/24 and printed out my Order Summary and Certificate. It tells you to call back or go online and chat if you don't receive a confirmation email within 24 hours. I didn't, so I chatted with someone on 5/25 and after 20 minutes of frustration with "your order has not been processed yet", I decided to give it another day. On 5/26 I repeated the exercise and after another 20 minutes, I had to go have a beer and cheer up. I tried again that night for another 40 minutes (at this point I was keeping track and taking notes) only to get the same "your order has been not been processed, no confirmation email for you".

I was away for two days and came home to messages from the installer. They had been to my house. I still didn't have an email confirmation. I was tempted to just reschedule, but after 20 minutes pursuing that, I decided to first confirm what I had ordered. After 65 minutes of getting bounced around between people who said "I don't have access to your account or that information" etc I got through to a real person on the phone who could listen to what I was saying and answer questions. Sure enough, they had the wrong hardware and the wrong price. I told her what I had ordered. She too was able to go online and configure what I requested and saw the price. She said that was an error. She was unable to give me the the online price. I explained my frustration and asked to cancel. She politely transferred me to someone to cancel....

And I got another painful support person who wanted to start from the beginning.....

I really wanted to go with Dish. If someone had emailed or been able to help me early on, I would have even paid the higher price. After the painful customer support experience, I just can't bring myself to pay more than what it still shows online. Thank you for reading this far. You can consider me an isolated case (or nutjob) and presume your experience will be more like one of the happy customers here.

If you're a huge fan of Dish, feel free to share my experience with anyone there who could improve things.

Last summer it was the same issue. It took over 12 hours on the phone and 31 days to get the service up and running. I bought the 622, the first one was DOA, on the second the HDMI port died last week, I am on my third.

When it's up an running its good.

The new 222 is available starting Friday:Hmmm. If you (still) can't send OTA to the 2nd set, that just might be the dealbreaker for me. And I see that it says, "Digital Off-Air Tuner". I hope that it's not only in SD. I would think not, but you never know. Could be their way of making you pay for the locals. Wouldn't put that kind of thing past 'em. It would be the next logical step after taking away the guide info if you don't include them.

I have been a happy Dish customer for 7 years. I got my HDTV in the summer of 2000 and picked Dish over DirecTV because at the time Dish had two HD channels (HBO and SHO) to DirecTV's one (HBO). I have never regretted that decision. Dish has had more HD consistently. The customer service has always been fine for me.

Only once did I feel they were not treating me well. That was when my HD receiver, the Dish 6000, crapped out. They would only fix it if I agreed to pay an additional $5 every month for a service contract. I declined and fixed the 6000 myself... I removed the 8PSK and 8VSB modules, cleaned the contacts, and reinserted them and all my problems went away.

When I got the Dish 622 DVR I asked for an upgraded switch to allow me to get the 61.5 satellite in addition to the dish 1000 - which they did. When I got the bill they charged me an extra $60 for it but when I complained they removed that charge because they didn't tell me about the charge when I ordered it.

I have been so pleased with Dish that I purchased some Echostar stock. That has also done well.

Rick R

I've been a Dish customer since about 1997/1998. While I've had a few problems with receivers, such as the 811, and I've had replacements shipped and received within two days, prepaid. Rebates have always been timely credited to my account and I've never had a problem returning receivers I owned but no longer needed, like the 301's I used to have, for a $25 credit toward a newer receiver. I've never had any significant problems with customer service and, maybe because Dish is a local company here (I live about 5 miles from their HQ), I've always had Dish employed techs install my dishes & receivers. Right now I have the Dish 1000 and the 211 and 222 receivers. I also have an 811 but it is not active.

I question some of the "facts" that have been posted on this thread which tend to boast arguments of problems with Dish when there may only misunderstandings, etc. For example, the first post mentions receiver fees of $10.98 (leased?). I don't know how this number was arrived at since I'm being charged a $6 lease fee per receiver. Another post mentions that when MPEG 4 channels began, the majority of HD channels was lost with the old receiver. To the best of my knowledge, this statement is untrue. I believe only ESPN2, NFLHD, 4-5 Voom channels, and the last 5-6 channels added very recently, like Universal and A&E, were the only ones strictly transmitted in MPEG 4.

I think when statements are made on this forum that slant the facts, a disservice is done to those looking for valid information.

I am a beta tester for the 222 receiver and have had the receiver since December 23, 2006. Here are some excerpts from the receiver's manual, page 95 relevant to OTA viewing:
The remote TV (second, SD TV) can view over-the-air channels only in Single Mode. For remote TV's receiving programming from CH 21-69 Out, the over-the-air antenna needs to be connected to your TV distribution equipment. When adding this conncetion , the FCC requires that you install appropriate equipment between the over-the-air antenna/cable and the stellite TV receiver to prevent you from accidentally retransmitting DISH Network programming. TV distribution equipment devices include coax panels, amplifiers or super home nodes, and are available through many companies. See www.dishnetwork.com for a list of approved equipment.

I use OTA with the 222 receiver for my HDTV. It is a digital tuner only - no analog. I do not have OTA connected to my second, SD TV as I subscribe to the locals so I don't need it for SD viewing. Single mode means that both TV's must be watching the same channel. Single mode must be used for the PIP feature on the main TV. The CH 21-69 Out output is used to transmit the second tuner's signal (SD only) to other TV's via coax. Mine is set to channel 61. So the bottom line is that you can view OTA on the second TV with the proper equipment but it will be in SD only.

I understand how the 2nd tuner's signal gets to the other TV, as I already have a 322 dual-SD tuner - which also means I'm already pre-wired for the 222, should I want to upgrade.

It'd probably be easiest to use one of my standalone digital ATSC tuners at the 2nd set (set to 480i) for the locals, and just switch inputs to watch them (after splitting the antenna feed to it - which I can do with minimal effort). Both of my standalones receive a PSIP-based digital guide, so I really don't need to subscribe to the locals just to get their guide info for them.

As long as the 222 will send the downscaled "HD package" channels to the 2nd set - that's the main thing.

Then I'll just keep on using my Sony HD DVR (which also has it's own guide - at least until the OTA analog cutoff) for the OTA HD locals at the main set - that way I can drop the locals from the package. I have the 322 running through a Panasonic EH75 DVR to record from the SD channels (the TVGOS works great with SD E*, and it's not purely analog-dependent for the guide, like with the Sony. Actually, it doesn't really download guide info for E* - you use the E* guide for that).

The 222 receiver does send everything, including the HD package channels, downscaled to 480i, to the second (SD) TV. It puts everything into 4 x 3 aspect ratio without any black bars - all channels are displayed full screen.