Hello All,

I thought I was all set in what I wanted to buy for my HT set-up until I started reading this forum... I know for a fact that I am going to go the Aerial Acoustics route for speakers. I thought I was going to go Theta CB III and Dread II until I started reading about the Halcro SSP-100 and how amazing it is for HT. I am going to be listening to abotu 80% HT and 20% music with this set-up.

I seem to be getting a consensus on the forums here that the Halcro may be the better bet for HT. So, how do their amps stack up? Would an MC50 be a better amp for HT than a Theta Dreadnaught II? I plan on using the Aerial Model 9, CC5 and SR3 for my speakers. They will be augmented by a JL F113 sub.

Please let me know what you all think about the two diferrent amps and how they would stack up.

Thank you!

I can't compare since I have not used the Theta, but have I really like the Halcro pre/pro. I am using the three channel amp (okay, 3 of them) with Triad Platinum speakers and am getting some clipping. The Halcro is a class D amp so it is pretty nasty sounding. The Triads are 4 ohm speakers so I am working with everyone on the why.

Anyway, the clipping is when I am around 100db, before that they sound great and I fully expect once it is figured out it will sound great above that as well.

Curt

p.s. quick edit, I don't want it to seem like I am pushing something, I am a dealer so I travel with the biases that come with that... but I hang out here as a user, not a guy pushing a product.

Does anyone else have any information on thus?

I've heard the Aerial Acoustic speakers with the Casablanca and Dreadnaught. The front left and right were driven with the Theta enterprise monoblocks.

Chronicles of Riddick on HD-DVD sounded amazingly good. The sound was powerful, dynamic and really made you feel a part of it.

I heard a Meridian G-Series set-up and Lexicon + Revel Performa set-up the same day but the Theta + Aerial combo stood above the rest by some distance. Agreed, that it was expensive than the other set-ups as well but the difference in sound quality was more than evident. Saying that it was a step above is not doing justice to the set-up. It was fantastic and breath-taking. :)

Aerial Acoustics make brilliant speakers. :cool:

Well I'm running a combo close to what your considering, Halcro SSP80 + Theta Dreadnaught II. The combination is quite impressive. I went with the Dreadnaught over the MC50 largely because I think that Class D amplifiers in general are not quite as rich and musical sounding as Class AB. The Dreadnaught is extremely fast and detailed. Got it in a 5x225 configuration.
If you go with the Theta make sure you place it somewhere it's well ventilated because it gives off al lot of heat. Just as an amp of it's class should. :D
I've gone through quite a few amps but I won't give up my Theta. ;)
Best sounding amp I've own next to of course my Accustic Arts AMP II.

It's all about current, baby! If you're stuck on these two particular amps, then the Theta is the way to go if your speakers are capable of presenting a difficult load (such as the 4 ohm nominal load of TrikinCurt's Triads)- because the amp has the capability to provide the extra current needed to maintain power output as impedence drops, unfortunately most class D amps are voltage switching amps, and don't do great at difficult loads (high frequencies, Class Ds do great when it comes to bass).

But, if you want to save some cash on a brand-new amp; I'd have to recommend an ATI AT3000 5 or 7 channel model (run about 3k retail, I think). You could also go the route of Krell or even the newer Lexicon (2007 models) amps.

just .02

Dan

As it stands I would have to agree. Still working with Halcro (who has been great) and Triad (who has also been great), but sure seems a current issue. I will be through a good AB amp at it and see what happens. With the Triad sensitivity I should hurt myself before the speakers or amp!

Curt

Well, It appears as if the Halcro amp is out of the running. I have also been noicing some of the Theta Enterprise amps on Audiogon lately. I wonder if three of them accross the front would be significantly better than using a Dreadnaught II... I also wonder how far off the performace scale they fall from the Citadels... Anyone know?

Well, It appears as if the Halcro amp is out of the running. I have also been noicing some of the Theta Enterprise amps on Audiogon lately. I wonder if three of them accross the front would be significantly better than using a Dreadnaught II... I also wonder how far off the performace scale they fall from the Citadels... Anyone know?

The Dreadnaught II is a modular amp. You can use the Enterprise for the front left and right which will take a lot of load off the multi-channel amp (whichever one you use). You can then use the DNII in a five channel configuration to power the 5 remaining channels.

The Citadel should be better than the Enterprise but I haven't heard it so I can't say by how much. I heard the Enterprise powering the L & R channels. They did a fantastic job!

The Theta amps are well built and graceful. Beware that the Dreadnaught II requires spade plugs. Banana plugs will not do as far as I know.

Theta's best dealer, Craig Shumer/Theatermax, is running a big special this summer on the Entermprise mono amps - basically half price. My understanding is Theta wants folks to buy and use and luv these amps and tell other folks, so they gave their best dealer a real deal to start gettin' em in folks hands. I would be confident that they will outshine the Dreadnaught 2, which is mighty nice sounding, and given the half price deal I think many folks will need to seriously consider them. Though there is limited supply on this special and once their gone, their gone!!!

Steve,

Do you have any idea what the MSRP is on these amps?

Thank you,
Charles

$9995 per pair, now on special thru Craig/Theatermax only for half off

I love my Halcro SSP-100 but have to admit that when I first heard it the MC50 was driving the speakers and my first thought was, I love the pre but my amp is considerably better.

I had a EAD PM2000 and I stupidly sold it to someone with Aerials. He had some high priced mono blocks which I can't recall that it replaced and he use to have a Theta Dreadnaught. From what he told me everything he has heard about the EAD PM2000 was right on and he was finally satisfied. I sold it because I had gotten a EAD PM8300 which is the 8 channel version as I needed the extra channels. The 8300 is almost identical to the 2000 at lower levels and I did do some comparing for about 2 weeks before deciding which to keep. I felt that the 8300 was close enough that I would not miss the 2000 but I have to admit that that extra 5% more the 2000 provides spoils you.
Were to 2000 betters the 8300 is in the lower bass, a tad more control over the drivers and the ability to scare the hell out of you while sounding cleaner and more detailed than anything I have ever experienced. The 8300 is no slouch and I have no plans on getting rid of it anytime soon but the 2000 is just that special.
The EAD amps from the PM1000, 2000 and 8300 (which I have all owned) are the best amps I have heard for both music and movies. I have owned slightly better music amps but they don't cut it for movies. A Krell KAV amp can sound great for movies but is too sterile sounding for music and would make me suffer listener fatigue quickly.

The problem with EAD is they are out of business so you would have to find a used one and pounce on it fast as they usually never last longer than a week. You can get them serviced though with Noble electronics who is staffed by former EAD employees.

I have tried all the Krells, Aragon, Proceed, Classe, Plinius and a bunch of other amps (oh my aching back) I would have to say that the Classe was the closet of the bunch and if I had to give up my EAD it would more than likely be a Classe. I did compare the Classe to the PM1000 but not the 2000 or 8300. The Classe was the 6 channel 150 watt amp (I think CAV-150) This Classe amp was exceptional and just lost out to the PM1000 in the bass where the Classe emphasized a little too much mid-bass which made it sound slightly muddy compared to the PM1000. The Classe had more bass but unless you heard it in direct comparison to the PM1000 you would notice that the PM1000 blended much better with the mids and highs were the Classe over powered them a bit. The PM1000 also had better separation and detail that was slight but none the less there. Without a direct comparison in my home though the distinction was small enough that on different days you could fool a lot of people on which amp was which, they were that close. With the PM2000 and PM8300 that distinction goes out the door though as not only do you hear that your speakers are finally in that happy place but that the drivers have met there match. They are under the iron grip control and are powerless to escape from the shear power of the PM2000 and to a lesser extent (about 5%) PM8300.

If you are more into movies than if you can find a EAD PM2000, which normally sell for about $3000 used, buy it. The PM8300 will get you about 95% there and if you have never been spoiled by the PM2000 than it will get you all the way there. The 300 series from EAD comes in the 5300 (5 X 300) 6300 (6x300) 7300 (7x300) and the model I have 8300 (8x300) From what I have been told they sound identical but if I understand correctly the 5300 has the same transformer as the 8300 so you would think it would have a bit more bite considering it has 3 less channels.

I have heard great things about Cinepro amps being great for movies but just good for music.

With the Halcro I would definitely buy the SSP-80 or 100 but from what I heard from the MC50 I didn't even want to do a in home 30 day trial. It is not that it sounded bad at all, in fact it sounded very nice musically but just didn't have that dynamic slam for movies that the EAD gives me so why even bother.

I don't have any experience with the Theta Dreadnaught in my own system but a friend of mine had one. In fact the first time I heard about the EAD PM2000 was when a friend of mine told me he sold his Dreadnaught and picked up something else. I thought he was crazy as the Theta was my dream amp and I had heard it on the same Martin Logan's he had and it blew me away. When I finally got a chance to hear the PM2000 I knew that he in fact did not go insane and there was no more reason to put him down like a rabies infested dog I assumed he was. I have heard from other as well that the EAD is a better movie amp than the Theta and it is a toss as to which is the better music amp.

The Theta is still a great amp and I would happily live with one but from my experience and what I have heard from people I trust is the EAD & Classe offer a more dynamic movie presentation that will make you grin from ear to ear.

Theta Enterprise Amps.... hmmm... They are what I heard the 9's on originally... hmmm.... Price wise, I could either go with enterprises for thr front 3 and a Dreadnaught for the rest, or I could get two Dreadnaughts and bi-amp my front three.... Which do you think would be best? Is this even a viable question?


Thanks.

Enterprise monoblocks for the L & R.

Dreadnaught II [5 channel] for the centre and 4 surround channels will easily do it.

The L & R carry the most load in movies as the music and action effect impact comes from them. You can do without a monoblock for the centre IMO and you won't be able to make the most of the Enterprise promotion deal that Steve mentioned about as it seems to be a deal for a pair of monoblocks rather than invidividually priced.


It should be a really good match. Good Luck. :)

Actually, being mono amps, I'm sure that they are available at this price in configs of starting with 2, then 3, and on up for a multi-channel system for as many as one wants until they're gone. That was my impression when I discussed this with Craig/Theatermax.

I would go with the Meridian instead.


Really? That's it? No explanation of why? That is a great post! Thanks for sharing!

Can we get back on topic now?


SO, would the Enterprise be better for the Aerials as opposed to Biamping from a Dreadnaught? I would think that more power from them would be better. But, then again, i am a newby and this is why i am asking... :)

Really? That's it? No explanation of why? That is a great post! Thanks for sharing!

Can we get back on topic now?


SO, would the Enterprise be better for the Aerials as opposed to Biamping from a Dreadnaught? I would think that more power from them would be better. But, then again, i am a newby and this is why i am asking... :)

Theta designed the Enterprise objectively to better the Dreadnaught modules so of course they should sound even better from a technical perspective. :eek:

I guess I am looking too far into this, huh? lol I was just thinking that if the Dread sounds so good with one channel running per speaker, it should sound even better running two of its channels per speaker. Damn that "Tool Time" philosophy of more power... ha ha

HT_New_Guy

Steve is steering in in the direction of dealing with Craig at Theatermax. I'll second that suggestion. His level of service is spectacular. I just bought my Dreadnaught II from him recently. He put in my order with Theta and it was drop shipped to my door within three weeks. :eek:

Nothing better then knowing that only your mits have ever touched it. :D

Love my Dreadnaught and could not be happier. :)

Dennis

HT_New_Guy

Steve is steering in in the direction of dealing with Craig at Theatermax. I'll second that suggestion. His level of service is spectacular. I just bought my Dreadnaught II from him recently. He put in my order with Theta and it was drop shipped to my door within three weeks. :eek:

Nothing better then knowing that only your mits have ever touched it. :D

Love my Dreadnaught and could not be happier. :)

Dennis

If I recall correctly, Jason, didn't you buy from Craig at Theatermax the other year, but then you got deployment orders, and Craig pretty much gave you the $$ back and allowed you to cancel the order even though the merchandise was ready for you to receive. At the time, my understanding was that Craig was bending over backwards for you (dealers don't normally do that, they take a nice cancellation fee to cover their loss as they have to resell the item and usually at a lesser price)
recognizing what a nice guy you are and especially your military service? Or was that someone else??? I recall the posting here at AVS on that.

Theta has plenty of good dealers. Craig is one of them - except he is as good as it gets and he does the highest volume for Theta, that's why he only has this Enterprise amp half price special. You can't get it from any other Theta dealer. That's my understanding when I talked with Neil Sinclair of Theta last week.

TT Guy,

I am currently in the market for new amps for my TT. I narrowed the playing field down to the following:

Sim Audio Titan
Anthem Statement HP5
Class 5200
Theta Dreadnought II
Halco Mc-50

I was having a hard time finding any of these locally for a demo and ended up starting a thread asking people if they had heard any of them with my speakers, Revel salons plus the TT package. I few people answered back stating that I should try the new Bel Canto's Ref 1000. Turns out, a dealer, literally a mile down my street, had them available to take home for a week. I am currently reviewing them. I should have an update on my thread next week sometime. but so far I can say WOW!!! these little guys deliver bigtime.

first time I heard ICEpowered amps and they have me thinking that they will make solid state multi channel amps obsolete as time goes by. More power, Smaller size (in depth only. Five of these would be as big as any of the above in height and width), MUCH greater efficiency, NO heat (Major advantage here) considering the quality of sound they are inexpensive and have a much lower cost of owner ship, plus so far they definetley make my revels sing (which is somewhat difficult for the average amp). The 10T's were MUCH more forgiving the this area.

I tested lord of the rings yesterday and have to say it was VERY impressive. Truly felt like I was sitting in a bubble. Still trying to find a way for them to fullfill my wants for 2 channel listening at the moment but don't get me wrong. they are very good with two channel listening so far but seem somewhat restrictive in the middle. I am thinking this is the room and am trying to fix it. The amps have SUPER low end power and control.

I am able to take home an anthem statement P5 which I will probably do in a couple of weeks. I am thinking the five above will for the most part deliver the same performance +/- 10%. so I should get a good idea with the P5

One of my local dealers (the guy who lent me the Ayre) says that going with the dreadnaught would be a step down from what I used to and yes, he is a theta dealer in my area and has been for a very long time. He thinks to get what I want I would have to go with 3 citadels not the enterprise in the front. I'm pretty sure he will be right but there is no way I can fit 3 citadels in my new space (I can't wait to move and start from scratch again. I can't stress enough on how important a room is for sound when your seeking extra detail)

I am thinking that none of the five amps above will provide the extra full range detail that I would like to have. Not to say they aren't good. I'm sure each and everyone of them wil be an outstanding product. I just have very demanding speakers and one of the down sides is finding the appropriate power for them.

As I mentioned, I'll have an update on my thread with the Ref 1000.

Take care.

Hi,

I have custom amps using the same ICEpower modules as the Bel Canto Ref1000s. There is nothing wrong with those class Ds - no HF rolloff, just a lot of headroom and great sound. There are some blanket statements being made about amps in this thread...

I live in Arizona and my listening room is on a second story - heat dissipation is an important parameter. My amps idle around 15W, so there is some heat, but nothing like class A or AB on idle. I will go back to DIY Aleph 30s in the fall/winter :)

- Steve O.

Definitely no HF roll off, at least not with the salons. In fact, at the moment my highs are more forward than my mids with 2 channel listening , especially with female voices. sometimes they sound close and sweet other times they sound far back and somewhat a dry. It could very well be the recordings, which is the weakest point of failure, but I'm thinking it's the room and plan on working on it tonight with the SP495. (I so miss my old room). I think I'm experiencing some decay off one wall in particular at certain mid frequencies.

Funny thing is I didn't notice this with the Lord of the rings movie soundtrack. In the beginning when cate blanchet starts narrating, she was clearly in the middle of my room. My wife and neighbor were with me at the time and we were blown away. It was as if an invisible woman was talking to us standing between the couch and the screen. I've experience 3d soundstage before for movies but not to this extent.

To correct myself from a previous statement. when I mentioned no heat I should have really said insignificant heat. over the weekend I played some cd's at some hefty volumes to see if the amps could dish out at lower frequencies (let me just say that they did in a bigger way than I expected) I put my hand them and they were barely warm. Just to give you guys an Idea on how little they heat up. They are literally cooler under load than my CB III is at standby. I am VERY impressed by how cool these amps are under load.

Two years ago a friend brought over some NuForce Ice amps to demo vs my Brystons.
They really were very nice. But then we put the Brystons back on - and believe me, my Bryston 7B monos were appreciably better.

I've also heard from some well known speaker manufacturers who had the Roland Ice amps that although nice, they really weren't as good as the Class AB amps they generally prefer.

The ICE amps do some very nice things. And they have great prices, little if any heat, and
its easy to get small ones and use mono amps all around. They have their uses. But I'll stick to Class AB amps as being the class. If one isn't interested in critical music listening, then the ICE amps may be just want the cat meowed.

I found Bryston to have a white sound.. Ok for video but not the best by far for 2ch audio.

The Brystons are neutral well built great sounding amps. Are there better amps - of course, but they're also more money honey. My Aerial 10Ts especially did better with high power solid state for my uses. It could be that my new Aerial 9s, about 5 dB more efficient, will sound even better with some great amps, even tubes, that just didn't have enough power with the 10Ts. I was simply pointing out that the ICE amps are no panacea for the best sound - my Brystons clearly bested them, no contest. Anyone want to trade me Theta Citadels or Enterprises for Bryston 7Bs. I'll take it up in a flash. One of these days, my friend Don of Granite Audio will bring over some of his tube amps to demo, now that I have some more efficient speakers. That will be interesting.

Don't forget how an amp sounds must be in the context of the speakers especially.

Two years ago a friend brought over some NuForce Ice amps to demo vs my Brystons.
They really were very nice. But then we put the Brystons back on - and believe me, my Bryston 7B monos were appreciably better.

I've also heard from some well known speaker manufacturers who had the Roland Ice amps that although nice, they really weren't as good as the Class AB amps they generally prefer.

The ICE amps do some very nice things. And they have great prices, little if any heat, and
its easy to get small ones and use mono amps all around. They have their uses. But I'll stick to Class AB amps as being the class. If one isn't interested in critical music listening, then the ICE amps may be just want the cat meowed.

Steve,

I'll have to come over with the EVS 500Ms sometime. They will change your opinion of Bang and Olufsen ICE technology. They have been quite tweaked by Ric at EVS. And they are just fine for critical music listening IMHO :)

- Steve O.

TT Guy,

I am currently in the market for new amps for my TT. I narrowed the playing field down to the following:

Sim Audio Titan
Anthem Statement HP5
Class 5200
Theta Dreadnought II
Halco Mc-50


Out of the amps mentioned, the Simaudio Titan is the best of the bunch by far. In second place, I would say the Classe.

The Brystons are neutral well built great sounding amps. Are there better amps - of course, but they're also more money honey. My Aerial 10Ts especially did better with high power solid state for my uses. It could be that my new Aerial 9s, about 5 dB more efficient, will sound even better with some great amps, even tubes, that just didn't have enough power with the 10Ts. I was simply pointing out that the ICE amps are no panacea for the best sound - my Brystons clearly bested them, no contest. Anyone want to trade me Theta Citadels or Enterprises for Bryston 7Bs. I'll take it up in a flash. One of these days, my friend Don of Granite Audio will bring over some of his tube amps to demo, now that I have some more efficient speakers. That will be interesting.

Ever tried the Parasound JC1s on your Model 9s? They have endless current, and will likely move those 4 woofers better than pretty much anything out there.

Actually, being mono amps, I'm sure that they are available at this price in configs of starting with 2, then 3, and on up for a multi-channel system for as many as one wants until they're gone. That was my impression when I discussed this with Craig/Theatermax.
Steve, you are correct, the Enterprises are available in any configuration from 2 units up.
Theta has made this special available to get this great little amp out there to combat the negative review by MF in Stereophile. He wanted a pair ASAP and Theta made the mistake of giving him a new boxed pair no burn in. MF didn't burn them in either so they sounded cold and light in the bottom end. Typical of a Theta amp not burned in for 100-200 hrs.
We have been running a pair of these on our Vandersteen 5A's with great success along with a 3 x 225 Dread II for our VCC-5 center and Model 5's in the rear. They have much of the character of the Citidel without the price tag and are a nice aesthetic package also. Good listening to you all.

HI Steve,

What a small world, Years ago I replaced My Mirage M3's with a pair of 10t's I demoed a few amps with them end ended up buying the 7b's. they were super fun amps and probably, overall, the best amp purchase I ever made. I ended up replacing them with omnicrons after I got the salons. the omnicrons had an extra edge of the 7b's but the 7b's were way more fun to own when I look back. It took lots of time to get the omnicrons to work right and when they did WOW! but the 7b moved walls from the get go and considering the price spend on them I didn't fully content. to this day I think bryston makes some of the best bang for the buck amps.

I'll tell you this. I 've had these ref 1000's for 6 days now and they remind me of the 7b's. they are loaded in the low end and there is no stoping them. It's been a while since I listened to the 7b's on the salons so it's hard to compare but the ref 1000's seem to have more finesse at higher frequencies and a tighter grip on the low end (The low end on these things is REALLY tight). and from I remember they are much quieter than the 7b's. In all honesty they seem quieter than the omnicrons but then again it's been a about a year since I heard those amps to (did I mention that compromising with a wife could really suck sometimes) :O)

I know nothing of ice amps and these are the first I ever heard (from what I know). Two guys, viking boy and a rubensin suggested I give the ref 1000's a shot. all I could say is that they are onto something. They aren't the answer to worlds peace, In fact, for two channel I am still having some issues with mids on certain tracks which seems not to exist with movies so far. But I have to admit the cantos are lots of fun so far.

I concur with everyone that recommended the Dreadnaught and Craig Shumer. As a long term customer of Craig's, and a devoted Theta enthusiast, I may be a bit biased. However, Craig has never disappointed me in the 5 years that I have been doing business with him.

I bought a pair of Citadel 1.5s from Craig earlier this year and I have to say these are some fine amps. Like others have stated here Craig is the way to go if your looking for Theta. I've never heard the Halcro's but I don't think you could go wrong with any combo of the Theta's.

HT_New_Guy,
I just wanted to chime in here. I bought a Theta Dread II from Craig and have to tell you he is a great guy to deal with. I also sold the Theta after a few months. It was good but I didn't think it was much better than the Bryston 4BSST I had. I have gone through many amps over the years and have to tell you the Sim Audio Titan is a Beast. Even thought it is rated at 200W it is much better than both the Theta or Bryston I had. I makes my 9's really sing. It seems to have endless headroom. Keep in mind I am running it through a 15amp circuit. It is actually rated and will perform better with a dedicated 20amp circuit. Keep in mind, it is huge. Hope this helps.

Jason

Because Halcro is new in surround sound processors and Meridian made its fortune in surround sound processors. The one they started with 13 years ago, the 565, is still better today than most other surround sound processors. It can be bought used for $500.00 :D Question is: do you care?? I don't think so...

I am a big fan of Meridian but I owned the G68 XXV prior to getting the Halcro SSP-100 and can tell you IMO the Halcro lives up to it's $10K price tag. I felt I did not get my money's worth with the similarly priced G68 XXV. The G68 is better sounding with music but the Halcro wins with movie's and has more of what I need like HDMI processing.
If the G68 had HDMI it would be a better value but it does not offer up that much more than the 568.2 IMO. I would advise any Meridian owner with a 568.2 to hold off upgrading until Meridian offers a HDMI capable pre-pro. I know Meridian sells an outboard switcher but it is only for video and no audio.

The 561 is actually a great movie processor and has a more snappy dynamic sound than the 568 which is more on the smooth side. The 565 while a very good sounding pre even to this day is a real pain to set-up and use.

I know Meridian will come out with a pre in the future that will offer HDMI and decoding for the latest DTS-HD and Dolby Tru-HD formats. Until then your best off saving your money and keeping your current 568 as it is more of a lateral move to go to the G68 series.

Who knows, maybe in a couple of years I will be a Meridian owner again :rolleyes:

I just felt I had to followup to this thread. I had a problem with my MC30 amps driving my 4ohm Triad Platinum speakers. Talk about service, Lance Hewitt (technical manager from Australia), came up with a solution, flew into our Hudson, WI showroom, put in some new modules, and fixed my problem and improved their amps!

Since I was on record saying these amps won't drive 4ohm speakers very well, I just felt I had to retract that. I will now go deaf before the amp or speakers give out.

Curt

(not hiding anything, I am a dealer, but not here to sell anything)

go with Nuforce monoblocks (which are not ICE-based btw). i'll put them up against a Dreadnaught any day...in fact, i'd put it up against pretty much any amp in this thread. you will have to spend a lot money to beat them

they are running a $1 audition program so can't hurt to try it. check out new reviews on positive-feedback and stereotimes

go with Nuforce monoblocks (which are not ICE-based btw). i'll put them up against a Dreadnaught any day...in fact, i'd put it up against pretty much any amp in this thread. you will have to spend a lot money to beat them

they are running a $1 audition program so can't hurt to try it. check out new reviews on positive-feedback and stereotimes

NuForce is great sounding for such a little package. But sorry, they are lacking compared to my former Brystons (we demoed them) and especially compared to my current Theta Enterprises. But given their price and size, they still can work well for some folks who are not overly critical re audio like some of us.

Steve- you didn't have SEs which is kind of an unfair comparison to the 7BST. i compared the regular Ref 9 to the 4BSST and it wasn't even a contest.

please order a demo pair of SEv2s for $1 and post your results....i can put you in touch with a dealer. $1!

and please, i'm have been more picky about audio than 99% of this forum and like to think i know a little about this. this was my old system when i was a big audiophile. i found tubes didn't work for my listening habits (college football) so went to nuforces and really have been quite happy ever since.

Wilson Sophias
BAT 51SE
BAT 75SE
Linn Unidisk/Wadia 861
Sound Application linestage with elrods
Sound Application wall plug
Acoustic Zen ICs and speaker cables.
Shunyata power cords (pythons and diamondbacks)


of course our pal Jim owns Aerials, so what does he know :)

Steve- you didn't have SEs which is kind of an unfair comparison to the 7BST. i compared the regular Ref 9 to the 4BSST and it wasn't even a contest.

please order a demo pair of SEv2s for $1 and post your results....i can put you in touch with a dealer. $1!

and please, i'm have been more picky about audio than 99% of this forum and like to think i know a little about this. this was my old system when i was a big audiophile. i found tubes didn't work for my listening habits (college football) so went to nuforces and really have been quite happy ever since.

Wilson Sophias
BAT 51SE
BAT 75SE
Linn Unidisk/Wadia 861
Sound Application linestage with elrods
Sound Application wall plug
Acoustic Zen ICs and speaker cables.
Shunyata power cords (pythons and diamondbacks)


of course our pal Jim owns Aerials, so what does he know :)

Hey, I'm glad Jim is happy. He's a great guy. I simply gave my demo experience which was shared with about ten Az Audio Video Club members and we were pretty uniform in our assessment of the NuForce - nice, but overall clearly not as good as the Bryston 7Bs in my system. That was the first version. Lately I've done a lotta changes with new speakers - Aerial 9s - and amps, Theta Enterprises. I'm takin' a break and enjoying what I've got. And I guarentee those NuForces ain't gonna give me the dynamics with the Aerial 9s that I got last night watching Miami Vice on HD DCD using Theta Six Shooter for analog multi-channel.

That's the thing about audio. Good folks can have different subjective tastes and opinions. Nothin' wrong with that. And at their price and performance, the NuForce amps clearly give something to be considered - but not for what I want at this time!!@@

Steve, i'm just saying the older, two-year old version isn't near what today's amplifiers offers....especially if it was the 8.02 which is what i imagine you heard. that was not a particularly good amp i would agree. i know you are very pro-Theta and I myself like several of their products (the Gen VIII in particular)

but for $1 I would think you would want to try them. since these things compare favorably to ML 33hs, Pass 350.5s, JC1s etc. it might be worth your time. that's all. it also could save you money to tweak other areas :)

sorry if i came off too strong headed before. your choice, but i think you might be surprised.

peace

Steve, i'm just saying the older, two-year old version isn't near what today's amplifiers offers....especially if it was the 8.02 which is what i imagine you heard. that was not a particularly good amp i would agree. i know you are very pro-Theta and I myself like several of their products (the Gen VIII in particular)

but for $1 I would think you would want to try them. since these things compare favorably to ML 33hs, Pass 350.5s, JC1s etc. it might be worth your time. that's all. it also could save you money to tweak other areas :)

sorry if i came off too strong headed before. your choice, but i think you might be surprised.

peace

No problem.

But I just ain't interested.

First, I was impressed by that first version of the NuForce amps. Nice imaging, nice vocals - but didn't have the micro and macrodynamics of my then Brystons.
The Enterprises are quite a bit better than the Brystons. Sometimes its time just to sit back and enjoy what you have. Although the current NuForce version are somewhat improved, I frankly don't see that being as good or better than what I've got now.

And why would you be even suggesting I try them? You don't have them in your system, do you? Your not a NuForce dealer, are you? In fact, didn't I see you posting some reviews at other threads here that weren't all that impressed with the NuForce (or am I mistaken).

Now I can see someone with limited space, putting the NuForce in their hidden cabinets, running long speaker cables, and luving them. But not me!!!

Notwithstanding, I'm glad Jim Swanko likes his with his Aerials and he's entitled to his own sonic observations and happiness!!!

geez steve, i'm really tired of the ad hominem attacks.

please read my posts since 2001 if you don't believe me or question my identity, my ears, my gear, whatever floats your boat.

enjoy your golden ears.

geez steve, i'm really tired of the ad hominem attacks.

please read my posts since 2001 if you don't believe me or question my identity, my ears, my gear, whatever floats your boat.

enjoy your golden ears.

Steve B

I know Keith and I value everything he says. I would trust his ears over just about any of my other audiophile friends.

geez steve, i'm really tired of the ad hominem attacks.

please read my posts since 2001 if you don't believe me or question my identity, my ears, my gear, whatever floats your boat.

enjoy your golden ears.

And I get tired of folks telling me repeatedly/ad hominem that I should demo something, regardless of their golden ears and how good they believe it sounds.

Whats that saying? Whats good for the goose is good for the gander???

And why would you be even suggesting I try them? You don't have them in your system, do you? Your not a NuForce dealer, are you? In fact, didn't I see you posting some reviews at other threads here that weren't all that impressed with the NuForce (or am I mistaken).





Quote:
Originally Posted by QueueCumber
Oh, and here is a follow up comparing the 8 to the 9: follow up.


it would be nice if that reviewer ever talked about sound quality---by the way nice 'reference" system. he also fails to compare sound to any other amplifier but says Nuforce falls short of mature designs.

btw, add the vaunted Bryston 4BSST to the amps that this thing is slayed---i owned one. sounded aweful despite the "rave reviews" and 20 year warranty. 80 pounds of dry sounding junk.

and distortion isn't everything....look at the distortion on OB's Lamms. it's more than .01% and i'd take them over just about anything out there. there is a lot more to buying amps on pure distortion numbers.

KR



Keith, actually, your above post, earlier in the NuForce amp thread, threw me off. I don't read all your stuff and am very unfamiliar with you. All of a sudden you repeated say I should demo NuForce. I read your above post and saw Quecumber's reference therein to a review that wasn't impressed objectively or subjectively and I was wondering why you like them so much. That's why I asked if perhaps you were a dealer or had them yourself - and I still don't know the answer to that. I have no idea what amps you have. Thats only because I am not familiar with you or your system and no, I don't plan on going back and reading all your stuff. We both have lives and this AVS place is just a hobby for spare time and inclination.

I currently have a house-full of amps -> pair Bryston 9B-SST, pair Bel Canto EVO6-Gen2, and Sim Audio Titan-7 & Titan-5. I just love the Titans.

But, my time ealrier this year with the Bel Canto Ref1000 has me committed to the 1000ASP modules for my next amp move.
I too was mightily impressed with their bass control & articulation, dead quiet background, and balanced sonics top to bottom.
I am selling all of the above SS amps and moving to a pair of 7-channel ICEpower amps all loaded with the top 1000ASP modules.

- Andy

Andy,
Can you please tell me what amps you are going to, I am very intersted? Thanks

Jason

ICE amps from Dennis at D-Sonic -> http://www.d-sonic.net

The ICE modules themselves are exceptionally complete with their own attached power supplies.
Manufacturers basically stuff them in a box, wire up a power switch, wire the inputs to RCA/XLR jacks, wire the output to speaker binding posts.
Some add some ferrite RF filters ( Bel Canto ) or input transformers ( Rowland ).

It is my guess that most all brands of ICE amps sound *almost* identical.
So based on my experiences with the Bel Canto Ref1000, I have no problem buying someone elses ICE amps without an audition.

- Andy

You aren't alone Andy... I too will be selling my traditional SS amps off shortly.

[QUOTE=Steve Bruzonsky]And I get tired of folks telling me repeatedly/ad hominem that I should demo something, regardless of their golden ears and how good they believe it sounds.

i could say many bad things right now, but i'm really not going to take this further Steve. sorry.

i'm just an audiophile and yes i do own nuforce.

i'm just an audiophile and yes i do own nuforce.

Glad you like them.

So getting back to Halcro, Theta and away from nuforce... how does the Belcanto1000 ref compare to the Halcro? MC30 or 50?

HI,

FWIW, I have recently swapped out my Bel Canto Ref 1K for the NuForce MCH3SE (w/ V2board) and am not looking back. This is the multi-channel version of the acclaimed Ref 9V2SE w/ almost identical innards except with 5 more channels than the monoblock pairs. In addition, internal wiring and connectors are a step removed from the 9V2SE's.

Yet, the NuForce unit is much more transparent and actually sounded more powerful and dynamic within its power range (190W @ 8ohm) compared to the 500watt Ice-powered Bel Cantos. The biggest, widest and deepest and most 3D soundstage I've ever heard at home. The most palpable and transient bass I've heard at home. Midrange is actually very liquid, neutral, nuanced and ultra-transparent but not bloated or flavored like some would have liked. It took me a while to appreciate this quality of neutrality without sugar-coating. I am after the truth, not pleasantry but am now a convert. Upper frequencies shine through w/o haze, glare or smearing and just crisply and cleanly rendered with pristine clarity and sparkle. Transparent from top to bottom and so low in noise it sounded spooky at first. Yeah, I am re-discovering old music like I am hearing them for the first time.

One small caveat though, it is very cable-sensitive and will not tolerate a bright-sounding, analytical cable at all. My previous cabling and vibration accessories were geared toward wringing the most out of my Bel Cantos as well as other less transparent amps of the past. This NuForce does not need this augmentation at all. A neutral sounding or slightly warmish cablings will allow the NuForce to shine through. Yes, there will be a little work-around requirement if you do not already have neutral to slightly warm cables and isolation devices.

I was about to write these amps off initially if I hadn't commited to them already. They were lean, overly detailed, edgy at top lacking body, meat and soul when I first installed them. Luckily, a little patience and experimentation proved its worth in gold. I am now enjoying music like never before and didn't think this is at all possible in my room and especially my budget. But the final result will be worth the investment exponentially if one is willing to put forth the time and a little bit of hifi experimentation which got us into this hobby to begin with.

Just my $.02,

Kenobi :)

While it's not all that well known, Verastarr makes a very nice six channel amp ( http://www.verastarr.com/am_ssa644.html )

You can run this as a bridged three channel amp and it's considerably better.

It's the old CinePro design, radically upgraded with higher quality parts, better grounding, etc.

I'll tell you one big negative with the MC50 that sits in one of my racks right now....it's got a stinkin' cooling fan! To me a huge negative for any high end piece of audio gear. Makes me want for the Parasound Halo that it replaced.

Edward