I posted this in the $3K and up digital projectors, but nobody responded.

Something I don’t see mentioned much are powered zoom memories on projectors. If there was a 1080p projector with 1000+ D65 calibrated new bulb lumens, 10K:1 or more contrast, and a set of at least 3 powered zoom/shift memories – it would make a killer Constant Area projection setup (paired with an anamorphic lens/sled - or even without). Anything out there like this in the price range that a mere mortal can afford? (under $10K – might be able to swing under 20K, but that’s pushing it)

Barco DP1500 --- http://www.barco.com/digitalcinema/en/products/product.asp?element=3682

Oh, sorry. I just noticed the "mere mortal" part.

This has been very difficult to achieve. I know minolta was working on a digital cinema lens 2 years ago to do this, quite unsuccesfuly at the moment. Using a crestron amx rig.

The Tiger2 ;) is really unique in this regard.

Just get a powered anamorphic lens

http://www.prismasonic.com/english/why_variable.shtml

It is not the same thing.

I have a Panamorph UH380 lens and M380 sled. I run a modified constant area setup with the only non-automated step being the zooming. It is not a big deal for me to use the remote to zoom, but others using the theater still have not quite figured out the concept of how much to zoom and when. In any case, it would be nice if a "consumer" projector had zoom/shift memories that could be automated. Ultimately I would like to have a fully automated system that detected the AR of the image and "did the right thing". Perhaps Runco has something like that, but before I went that route I would rather cobble together a used/lower end digital cinema projector system. I am guessing that it is just a lack of demand that explains the lack of zoom memories. It would seem to be easily achievable given the fairly low cost of very accurate CNC milling type sensors and actuators available.

I am guessing that it is just a lack of demand that explains the lack of zoom memories.

The lack of demand is due to the feverish growth pace of the anamorphic industry.

Anamorphic made sense in the age of sxga, in helping reduce stairstepping and the evidence of pixels. With 2k the whole equation needs to be re-examined.

Personally at the very high end I am declaring war on Anamorphics. It's an extraneous gimmick smack in the midst of the imagepath.

the biggest issue in this application is sources that report out the AR of their content so that it can be automated. Anamorphic lenses, Masking screens, drapes, etc.

TO this day there is only one device that does that. and it is way out of the average price category.

I differ...

That Issue is not a deal breaker for me with the lens servo memories implementation.

You have 5 presets on the touchscreen, academy, vistavision/hd, cinemascope 1, cinemascope 2, cinemascope 3. I't will be a fun "Show and Tell" session playing with these while the zoom goes back and forth always arriving at a perfectly focused image.

Firstly, we are not talking about you. as you know all, none of these inconsequential discussions pertain to you.

Secondly, show me a system with those described buttons and i will show you some very unused buttons.

THe whole point of a high end system is that we hit play and everything happens. Lights, audio level, screen, etc.

Even if a client was Frances Ford Coppola, his wife would have no idea what those buttons mean.

Because it is an even cooler show and tell when you just hit play and everything happens.

Folks who deal with true high end systems know this.

However, back to the original question. There used to be more, but you only found a display with both Dynamic zoom and in the Pro Categroy. Mainly because the need in the consumer market does not come anywhere close to matching the required costs to add that. it is a fairly easy thing, but comes with lots of overhead in controllers and mechanical parts.

When designing a display, you only put in what is needed, in pro, that is needed, in consumer... not so much.

This adresses UNEDITED the next to last post.

You are a little weasel. I am giving the lecture here.
Watch me redefine Home theater again with the world's 2 first true servo zoom installations. Since I will be implementing them(at great personal effort) and NOT YOU, kindly shut up! When you install your first servo zoom memory install fell free to engineer it to Kaleidescapes content, To me K is obsolete for the near future.

WAF in a super high end theater is for queer designers, Francis Ford Coppolas wife BJ responsibilities are no different than any other captain of industrys'.

But for general forum knowledge these 5 presets are in one AMX screen that simply adresses via IP 5 memory presets (out of 64) in the DP 1500 (the tiger 2).

These memory presets are programmed using the commmunicatior software.

This is a WYSIWYG zooming masking blanking touchscreen interface that will run on vista touchscreen sytems with Certain Conventions Observed.

http://www.barco.com/digitalcinema/en/products/product.asp?gennr=1807

Deluxe and Technicolor are in the process of acquiring some of these for reference post production. Mostly conservatibly (33-45 reduction) implementing the optical path mods pionered 3 years ago by our esteemed forum member Odyssey.

However, back to the original question. There used to be more, but you only found a display with both Dynamic zoom and in the Pro Categroy. Mainly because the need in the consumer market does not come anywhere close to matching the required costs to add that. it is a fairly easy thing, but comes with lots of overhead in controllers and mechanical parts.

When designing a display, you only put in what is needed, in pro, that is needed, in consumer... not so much.

During Stereophile 1994 Gary Reber refused to review my 9Inch Barco with Faroudja and Torus installation based that the cost was TOO HIGH for Consumer use. HISTORY proved this chap wrong. Personally I think he was turned off by my spic accent then. Sam Runco now sells a $250k projector (that can be put tohether wholesale for 45k). This is many times over what Gary Reber found excessive for consumer use.


RELATIVITY:
It is not your money I am dispensing with, it is money of people that can spend $40,000 in airplane fuel to go have breakfast somewhere. But the sooner I make it happen the sooner it will be cheaper for the masses. I have witnessed these ten times fold. Noblesse Obligue for my patron.

I am stopping 2k anamorpphic projection for Home Theater on it's tracks because my gut intincts tell me it's the right thing to do. I am doing it on a 4 meter 2.37 torus and a 174" 2.4 high power just to make sure I have both bassis' covered.

Whichever focusss better with better screen uniformity shall be the new high end standard.

Either of my projects dissapoint me I will be the first to admit and you will know. My instincts however ARE ON FIRE, the odds are I am right . I just don't know if the Torus is best, or the High power (placing Darin, Noah, and Tryg squarely center of the responsibility kill zone).

Even if a client was Frances Ford Coppola, his wife would have no idea what those buttons mean.




FOR THE RECORD: MY definition of WAF on a Cinema System for an International Captain of Industry is: Removable Armrests. Not all that patronizing west coast ****.

Thank you for showing what a flipping nitwit you are.

The first question was whether there were any reasonably priced machines that had powered memories.

The reason for this is that these types of features tend to be not a very requested item in consumer devices. Of course there are pro units with this, and even some very high end units that can serve the purpose.

Then you started raving about your latest delusion.

So to the original poster, sorry, no. However having said that, if you REALLY dig, you may actually find that some manufacturer may have zoom memories, but that they do not advertise the commands. Although it is HIGHLY unlikely.

And Peter, next time you feel it unnecessary to rant and rave and wave your dick around, think on this... Never once have you shown any evidence around here that you have built anything other than a plasma in a cabinet or a really neat RP test system.

I am not asking about signed testimonials... just show something other than a massively horridly photoshopped image. Or show nothing at all, but you are so full of crap and you back it up with nothing!

So get over yourself.

[QUOTE=Dizzman]Thank you for showing what a flipping nitwit you are.

The first question was whether there were any reasonably priced machines that had powered memories.

The reason for this is that these types of features tend to be not a very requested item in consumer devices. Of course there are pro units with this, and even some very high end units that can serve the purpose.

Then you started raving about your latest delusion.

So to the original poster, sorry, no. However having said that, if you REALLY dig, you may actually find that some manufacturer may have zoom memories, but that they do not advertise the commands. Although it is HIGHLY unlikely.

And Peter, next time you feel it unnecessary to rant and rave and wave your dick around, think on this... Never once have you shown any evidence around here that you have built anything other than a plasma in a cabinet or a really neat RP test system.

QUOTE]

First of all what is there to show SINCE THE DISCONTINUATION OF THE g-90?I did show a spectacular penthouse system with a G-90 and Torus. And I did build a gargantuan Optical rear projection set using a top flight DPI unit based on a cinema unit in Brazil in 2005. The owner did not want it published, period.

In my opinion prior to the release of some projectors this year 2007 (the Barco, the Titan 1080p and yes even the lowly rs-1), home theaters have been excersizes of futility, that Is why I spent my efforts in Fujitsu systems. To me that was the honorable thing to do, biding my time to the promise of 3 chip dlp HD.

Now that we have the goods I have found 2 saturn moons to work on. Or rather they have found me. I posted the complex ray tracing of the Torus some months back, and can even show you a mockup of what the Torus box will look like.

INSERT HEREhttp://cineramax.com/images/Theater002.jpg

I cannot post the shop drawings of the Torus as they are licensed copyrigthed, and Don Stewart worked very hard personally ray tracing the incident and reflected light.

There are shop drawings of a platform for the rotary subwoofer as welll as my artists renderings of how the multiple aspect ratio screens are going to work.

There are multiple media rooms going on in these homes:
http://cineramax.com/images/BedroomSidePrometheus.jpg

http://cineramax.com/images/GrandStaircasePrometheus.jpg

This master bedroom projection system needs to be concealed in a bookcase (http://www.dummybook.com/spines.htm), engineering the hushbox brings an entire set of variables.

None of the owners want to see equipment, so ventilation is a line item and engineering item on every sub system. The xbox 360 elite will not turn on unless there is a certainn level of cfm around it .

Why don't you cut me some slack and let me do my work? I am working 60 hours weekdays.

I insist that there is only one projector that has sufficient accuracy in the lens servos as well as a built in memory function.

That screen is going to look sweet. In case I missed it what is the width.
I heard the Titan should be shipping next month with new orders shipping in Sept.

Thanks Alan.

4 meters = 13.13 inches.

The owner builds skyscraper Condos and they never put the 13 floor in. When I told him the screen should be 13 feet, he said: "I am superstitious" make it 12. So I came up with 4 meters, built the mockup and it was just the perfect size for the room. But it has the number 13 twice in it now. ;)

Ironically the whole purpose of the Torus screen initially was to compensate for the anamorphic lens horizontal and vertical curvature. In digging with Isco Engineers at this throw distance the vertical curve was nill, and the horizontal curve was 2.43 TD (hardly curved).

So it's been decided that if come CEDIA a better projector to the Barco DP 1500 with the Odyssey mods and custom gamma LUT does not show up, that we will go the servo zoom route without anamorphics.

http://cineramax.com/images/PrometheusSection-AsBuilt.jpg

At the customers request the screen box was reduced to 16" deep.

Oh yes the Titans are in production. A friend of mine is number 9 in queue for the Titan, I heard July delivery too (for some).

The explanation for the delay is that they are really working out all the kinks and want the projector as perfect as possible. Joel silver is helping them now on the Industrial ISF end, I hope he has contributed some to the Titan as well.

WAF in a super high end theater is for queer designers, Francis Ford Coppolas wife BJ responsibilities are no different than any other captain of industrys'.


My favorite quote.

[With an adrenalized Michael Palin Pythonesque intonation, while repeatedly pointing finger]: "Male chauvinist pig" " Male chauvinist pig"...

Damned your denunciations and all, but one thing is true. If one is to commit to the undertaking a serious Hi Tec project (like popping the cherry of the servo zoom in question), it's gotta come from the gut. I think for that it's beneficial to get in touch with ones inner Sam Peckinpah, as opposed to an inner Barry Manilow.

How's that for a quote?

(C) Cineramax 2007

Dizzman,

You obviously understand the automation issues. The inability to automate aspect ratio selection is a major limiting factor in HT design and as you know it's possible ONLY if a Kaleidescape system is being used. Otherwise, unless a system is owned by a hobbyist (and as you know it's a rare hobbyists that is buying an automated constant height systems), the proper aspect ratio will not be chosen. We've been there and done that and even putting one touch presets on the touchscreen is not going to make it happen for reasons you understand all too well. So other workarounds have to be implemented.

I did see one install where somebody worked photosensors into the edges of the masking and used that to set masking.

It was crude and only rarely worked well. But it was a neat idea.

Masking screens are one of those things that are neat, but for anybody other than the hobbyist, they have been ahead of their time (integration wise) and hopefully over time we will see more solutions that can automate the process. THere has got to be a way to add some sort of simple preset management into systems. With all the metatdata out there, with using HTPC's (whether MCE or other) somebody has to come up with a simple fix.

I did see one install where somebody worked photosensors into the edges of the masking and used that to set masking.

.

Don Stewart was kicking around a similar idea 15 (sensors) years ago on 4 way masking. Perhaps the implementation you speak involved Don in that regard.

The MCE metadata has merit, but since a lot of the MCE content is based on cable card hd recordings, there is very little consistency in the overscan process from the movie channels. Chances are it wont be the exact aspect ratio.

I am sure for the movie theaters (Barco dp 1500) they wont be preserving exactly the aspect ratio. They will just have some presets filling the height of the screen but that will involve some minor cropping /masking of the sides.

there is only one way to get exact, and only one company doing it.

While Recording stuff off air is currently the only access to lots of content, honestly it is going to be looked at in 2 or 3 years the same way i look at my dads VHS collection.

However, even with that, get a trigger for the majors, 1.33, 1.78, 1.85, 2.35. because all but the serious videophile will be happy with that. ANy anything more than that is not possible no matter how much you fiddle with it. Mainly because of the major issue with all of the masking screens. THe depth from the screen surface to the masking means that they all are wrong to all but one person sitting in one seat.

I had a talk with a major person in the industry that told me about designs to make one where the masking (for a CIH) would be beveled and only a few mm off the screen surface.

If he comes out with it, it will be cool.

D'accord.

Re VHS, It's true the HD cable signal of Comcast in Miami is not that hot, despite being uncompressed, yet for multiroom hd the media center cable card xbox elite thing is pretty cool.

I don't trust metadata - it's too often wrong/missing. How about a camera that looks at the screen and moves the zoom/masking - something along the lines of the cameras that were used for auto-convergence on some CRT projectors? Too complicated? It would seem easier just to get the AR detected by a scaler, but that has been requested and rejected by Lumagen at least, and I don't know of any other scaler that offers that.

I don't trust metadata - it's too often wrong/missing.Kaleidescape measures every movie themselves. So whether you trust it or not it's HIGHLY accurate. Metadata that comes from end users as some of the Internet databases did is of course not going to be 100% accurate. But there are still very accurate databases. If I put a CD in iTunes seems to get it right every time. In fact I can remember the last time if ever I put one in that it did not identify correctly. It may not have the data once in a blue moon, but even that is rare.

I've also seen databases with really horrible meta data or more likely lots of misses. So I don't use those databases.

Just hire a coed to be your assistant, then she can adjust the zoom...

I willl take three assistants one for the zoom. one for the focus, and one for the lens shift.

BTW, this is why CRTs are better, because you can justify having an assistant per lens.... ;)

But then you need some crazy strongman to move the thing around, so maybe that cancels out the advantage. Maybe I thought about this too much...