I love my Martin Logan Logos center channel speaker. The quality of dialogue is fantastic and I don't wish to give it up. However, I had to replace my Logan SL3's for front speakers because I am not able to pull them away from the wall and set them up properly. I replaced them with an older pair of Proac Super Towers that I picked up for a song. I'm blown away by the detail and huge soundstage of the Proacs in my smaller theater and it was clear that the Logans were missing that top end detail (although I miss that wall of sound). My point is that I happen to like the result of using these speakers together. I don't have access to behind the screen so a floorstander center channel is not an option. The Logos is mounted directly below the screen but angled directly at the listener. Am I making a mistake or should I ultimately trust my ears?

I would have to say if your ears can hear the difference; and if so you will need Timbre Matched speakers.

...Angelo

if your ears dont care, you shouldnt care.

There are better ways to set up a system, but everyone has their own compromises to make. If you can live with this compromise, then there is nothing to worry about.

Ideally, you'd want to match the speakers, but if it sounds good to you, I wouldn't worry about it. So ultimately, trust your ears.

If your decision is already made then simply enjoy the sound and get a matching center if and when you notice timbrel differences.

FWIW I cannot stand the timbrel mismatch in my current (cheap) system. When I bought them they sounded great, but 6 months down the track I started defining personal likes/dislikes re audio and the timbrel shift in the center is terrible - it was that noticeable.

I did live with it for 4 years however (ugh). Thank God my new system is coming next week (yay).

Those airy Martin Logans generally will not "clash" with other speakers, since they dont introduce their own brand of cabinet distortion.

While the timbre may not be a perfect match, you dont care because the ML is so damn clean sounding. Consider it a bonus of the brand.

Trust your ears. But, if the question whether you are missing something as you have your system set up now becomes unbearable, try to pick up a used matched center, compare it to what you have now, and if it isn't, turn around and resell it (probably for what you paid for it).

Thank you all for your excellent opinions and quick responses! I'll definitely be keeping this setup for some time. Appreciate the quick replies.

The other test you can perform is to switch between your center and setting up your system for a phantom center and seeing if you notice any badness when your center is active.


Mitch

Forgive me I am still new to some of this. But, If your left and rights have a better frequency response than your center. Wont everyone notice this? I mean how can you not? When effects are going through all of your front stage at once and circling around. Would you not notice the shift in sound? Or when your dialog sounds muddier than the effects? I would think anyone can notice the differences, even if they are not audiophiles.

What are the characteristics of timbre matched systems? Is it simply a matter of matching freq. responses, x-over, and power input...or is it much deeper than that? I've noticed on many occasions while looking for bookshelf speakers, that the seller and/or manufacture doesn't carry a matching center channel. I assume this is because the majority of buyers of these products are buying for Stereo purposes or otherwise 2.0 HT.

What are the characteristics of timbre matched systems? Is it simply a matter of matching freq. responses, x-over, and power input...or is it much deeper than that? I've noticed on many occasions while looking for bookshelf speakers, that the seller and/or manufacture doesn't carry a matching center channel. I assume this is because the majority of buyers of these products are buying for Stereo purposes or otherwise 2.0 HT.

It depends on how deep you want to get yourself into this. The best match up would be to get 6 or 7 of the identical speakers. Depending on how close your dealer is to the manufacturer in terms of relationship, s/he may be able to get you an extra speaker to be used as center.

I have found that the typical center channel speaker that manufacturers have in the horizontal layout is just too much of a compromise to sound quality to my ears. I have gone without center channel until I can afford a layout that will allow for a normal speaker to be placed in the center. I don't consider the horizontal center channel speaker to be a perfect timbre match to the same speaker in the vertical position (to my ears) due to wierd dispersion problems that I heard. I haven't heard a WMTW center channel though, and my opinion might change upon hearing one.

Forgive me I am still new to some of this. But, If your left and rights have a better frequency response than your center. Wont everyone notice this? I mean how can you not? When effects are going through all of your front stage at once and circling around. Would you not notice the shift in sound? Or when your dialog sounds muddier than the effects? I would think anyone can notice the differences, even if they are not audiophiles.


Here is the thing. In life, do you notice when things move around? Yes. Does a train moving from right to left in real life change pitch as it moves towards you and doesn't that pitch change dramatically as it moves away? Don't the sound waves compress as the train approaches and then disperse as it moves away? Doesn't a jet sound different as it approaches flies over and then away? The answer is yes. The timber and pitch of sound changes depending on whether the body is stationairy, moving towards us, moving away from us etc. So why do we strive to have trains, planes, exploding shells, bullets, sound exactly the same from each speaker in our system? In reality, if a plane flying around our heads in our HT systems sounds exactly the same regardless of where that plane is supposed to be relative to where we are seated, then I might argue that contrary to popular belief, that is not a realistic experience. Just a few thoughts. Perhaps its just not as important as most think to match every speaker in your system. Although I think it prudent to have matched mains, at least.

Here is the thing. In life, do you notice when things move around? Yes. Does a train moving from right to left in real life change pitch as it moves towards you and doesn't that pitch change dramatically as it moves away? Don't the sound waves compress as the train approaches and then disperse as it moves away? Doesn't a jet sound different as it approaches flies over and then away? The answer is yes. The timber and pitch of sound changes depending on whether the body is stationairy, moving towards us, moving away from us etc. So why do we strive to have trains, planes, exploding shells, bullets, sound exactly the same from each speaker in our system? In reality, if a plane flying around our heads in our HT systems sounds exactly the same regardless of where that plane is supposed to be relative to where we are seated, then I might argue that contrary to popular belief, that is not a realistic experience. Just a few thoughts. Perhaps its just not as important as most think to match every speaker in your system. Although I think it prudent to have matched mains, at least.
If engineered correctly, the "sound" will have the Doppler Effect (using your example) engineered properly into the soundtrack. :)

That said, I DO agree with the fact that too much emphasis may be placed upon timbre-matching. I think that, in many of our listening environments, even when using supposedly timbre-matched speakers, the exact location and use of the speakers in the room and the fact that many of us have rooms that are not "perfect" in respect to being absolutely acoustically symmetrical, just for one example, affects the timbre of the speakers, anyway.

An obvious example of the room affecting timbre would be furniture placement, curtains, carpet, rugs, etc. within the room affecting the perceived timbre of the speakers within a system.

Another obvious example, as pointed out here already, would be that, even when using a supposedly timbre-matched center-channel speaker, the location of that center-channel speaker and the fact that most are horizontally-oriented, invariably, must affect the timbre relative to the L+R front speakers.

Surround speakers, too, even though they may even be exactly identical speakers to the L+R front speakers, will be affected timbre-wise by their room location.

Now, I can see how, in a dedicated and well-designed HT room, where acoustic treatments are used that diminish the effects that the room and placement may have upon timbre, timbre-matching may be more important.

Of course, getting the room right is the first step as the room has more audible aberations than the speakers do. It doesn't really make much sense going after the tiny little leak in your pipe when you have a gushing leak somewhere else! :)

Once the room induced problems are minimized, getting a timbre matched system may become much more important (obviously this is after location-based problems are minimized).

You want timbre matched speakers because they will all reproduce what the source gives in the same exact way. If you are to hear the doppler effect, this must be in the source. If the source contains the doppler effect (lets say the doppler effect is a change of a variable - lets say pitch), then timbre matched speakers will replicate this as realistic as possible. A non-timbre matched system will not (as accurately). The panning between the speakers will make it seem like the doppler effect itself was changing as the object was moving in time relative to the listeners location (a change of a change of the pitch if you will). Timbre-matching is an attempt to remove this odd effect when sounds pan between the speakers allowing the doppler effect to remain just a change of the pitch.

Whether or not your ears actually care about timbre matched system or can detect the "change of the change of the pitch" is totally subjective and depends on the specific listener. Only you can decide if timbre matching is extremely important or unimportant.

For some people, getting an impressive well-integrated subwoofer is more important than timbre-matching. etc...

If engineered correctly, the "sound" will have the Doppler Effect (using your example) engineered properly into the soundtrack. :)

[snip]

Now, I can see how, in a dedicated HT room, where acoustic treatments are used that diminish the effects that the room and placement may have upon timbre, timbre-matching may be more important.

I think it matters when the timbrel shift is so bad that you are reminded you're listening to speakers.

I think it matters when the timbrel shift is so bad that you are reminded you're listening to speakers.

No disresect but I can't imagine any system where you aren't aware that you are listening to speakers. Of course that may be due to the fact that I have not heard every speaker. But I have owned Pioneer, Kenwood, AR, Altec (back when it meant something to own those speakers) Triangle, Dunlavy, Infinity, Vandersteen, and others that I can't even remember. I have heard, NHT, B&W, Maggies, and the list goes on. I have been critically listening to speakers since I started to listen to rock and roll back in 1967. It doesn't make me an expert. It doesn't make me an authority. And I admit I could be wrong. But I have never heard any system anywhere, where I wasn't aware that the sound was coming from a speaker.

But if this soundstage is so grealty affected, or a brown apple in the fruit salad of watermelon, wouldnt you knotice?

If your so busy critically listening to you speakers, and not enjoying the content, then whats the point? Its when the speaker draws your attention away from the content, is when something should be changed. Wether or not this is the case is up to the OP.

No disresect but I can't imagine any system where you aren't aware that you are listening to speakers. The shift was so noticeable that I was registering the "effect" each time a LCR pan occurred. That is what I was referring to when I said you are "reminded you're listening to speakers", as it briefly pulled me out of the movie experience.

The shift was so noticeable that I was registering the "effect" each time a LCR pan occurred. That is what I was referring to when I said you are "reminded you're listening to speakers", as it briefly pulled me out of the movie experience.

Although I have never heard any HT so compromised that I can say I heard a shift in the effect during a pan, I have no reason to doubt those of you who say you have. Also, I have always, at least, matched my speakers across the front by manufacturer. On the rear speakers I'm not so concerned as long as its a good quality speaker. :)