Having had great service from a Sony HS10 for 3+ years, it's time to get a new PJ before this one needs anything.

As tempting at the new 1080Ps are - I can't see spending double when there's not enough 1080P sources to justify IMHO.

So there's the Panasonic AX100U, Sanyo ZL5, Optoma HD73, perhaps the upcoming Sony AW15 - all for less than half of the $3,000 ceiling of this forum.

But for a bit more - perhaps the Sharp 12K MKII, the BenQ PE8720 (Avail refurbed in this price range) or even a Dwin TransVision 4 (used)?

What other worthy choices could be added to this list?

This is for a bedroom HT with 101" Elite Vmax screen approx. 15 ft from the PJ,
used mainly at night so light control's not a problem. (Would appreciate something quieter than the HS10.)

How to go about deciding what the best option is??? Hopefully you who've had the opportunity to see more than one of these in action can help steer me.
All advice is welcome.

(Doesn' it seem odd that here in Los Angeles I can't find any place to preview PJs?)

You left out the Epson Home Cinema 400/810 models. The 400 is about the same price as the Z5, and is as bright as the AX100.

There will be a lot more HD sources in the next year or so, so the argument for not getting a 1080p PJ is not quite true (cost is though). The Epson Home Cinema 1080 is right at the top of the $3K edge (and they're starting to offer discounts - to counter Panasonic's rebates). The advantage is that the 1080p LCD panels are better than the older 720p panels.

I'm going through the same situation (to replace the 720p PJ that I have now - when it fails). Right now, I've boiled it down to the Z5, the Epson 1080, or possibly the Epson 400 (but it's fan is really too loud for my setup).

No, it's not unusual that you can't preview in the LA area. Most B & M stores can't compete with the Internet stores (and the markups are too low to make it profitable - I was surprised that Ken Cranes didn't have any). We can't see any here in the entire San Francisco Bay Area either. The only exceptions are Magnolia Audio Video stores (mainly InFocus PJs) and High End Audio Video stores ($6K and up PJs, usually Sharp, Runco, etc. models).

PS -- You might want to contact MikeSRC at www.surfaudiovideo.com/. He's located in San Clemente. He handles InFocus PJs, but is also an AVS member, and I've had a number of conversations with him.

I think unquestionably the most popular 720p model these days is the Mitz HD1000u at well under a grand. It's not the best of the units listed, probably tied for the worst in fact, but it's a lot cheaper than any of the others and, looking at the title of the thread, I think it is the best for the buck. The others are better, but not $300+ better, imho, of course. It is very bright the first 100 hours or so (all PJs settle down in that department) so if you've got great light control and a smaller (under 100") screen it could be overpowering, at least for a while.

Don't hesitate to spend more if you're going to keep it for 3+ years like you did the Sony - a lot of us (I mean a LOT) bought the HD1000u with the idea of turning it over in roughly 2 years when 1080p is under $1,000, if that's your plan then it's a very solid choice for the interim.

nightfly13 -- I seriously doubt that the 1080p PJs will be under $1K in 2 years (but under $2K is a possibility).

I agree about the Mits HD1000U, except the 32% negative offset kills it for me (I need zero offset - my shelf mounting requires the PJ be aimed at the bottom of the screen, worst case). This is the same problem that I had with the CRT PJ that I had 20 years ago (and that wouldn't fit now, in my present LR/HT configuration).

BTW, I love your avitar.

nightfly13 -- I seriously doubt that the 1080p PJs will be under $1K in 2 years (but under $2K is a possibility).

.

Claus, you think?
Seconds ago I was looking at an ad for a 1080p flat panel display for well under $1K. (you read that right) Could PJs be far behind? Two years is loooong time in digitalk.

Having had great service from a Sony HS10 for 3+ years, it's time to get a new PJ before this one needs anything.

As tempting at the new 1080Ps are - I can't see spending double when there's not enough 1080P sources to justify IMHO.

So there's the Panasonic AX100U, Sanyo ZL5, Optoma HD73, perhaps the upcoming Sony AW15 - all for less than half of the $3,000 ceiling of this forum.

But for a bit more - perhaps the Sharp 12K MKII, the BenQ PE8720 (Avail refurbed in this price range) or even a Dwin TransVision 4 (used)?

What other worthy choices could be added to this list?

This is for a bedroom HT with 101" Elite Vmax screen approx. 15 ft from the PJ,
used mainly at night so light control's not a problem. (Would appreciate something quieter than the HS10.)

How to go about deciding what the best option is??? Hopefully you who've had the opportunity to see more than one of these in action can help steer me.
All advice is welcome.

(Doesn' it seem odd that here in Los Angeles I can't find any place to preview PJs?)

IMO you will be another satisfied & happy camper as alot of folks are that purchased the Z5. I went back & forth myself and now have over 50 hrs. on the Z5 and personally after using my own setting preferences I dont know how much more of an improvement I will get when I calibrate the Z5 if the new AVIA II HD DVD Cal. disc becomes available. For the price I paid and the fact that it only took 18 days to receive my $300.00 in rebates back from Sanyo so far I am impressed.

I have it mated to a Tosh XA2 and a SA8300 HD DVR both via HDMI and the content excluding naturally sd analog is exceptional using a 19`ft. throw to a DW 120" 1.78 Diag. screen.

In two years I agree with CT that most low budget 1080p projectors will be under 2K unless some advanced technology in regards to lasers are employed versus the standard low-life lamps. Of course this laser tech would first be employed in higher end projectors but may trickle down to budget FP`s and ramp the price up knowing most folks would want the laser projection for longevity.

Regards & Good Luck whatever you choose! ;)

The "best" projector is always the one you can't afford and/or the projector that's "comin' out next year" :D

I don't want to take this thread too far off topic, but I will :) The 2 years till $1k 1080p was only meant to be a factor in deciding whether to spend extra or not, but I sure do stand by that prediction, in fact, let me go further to say $1500 street by CES 2008 (that is, January), under $1k by 2009. Perhaps that's where we were so far off in our expectations, Claus, I was talking about Street pricing, not MRP (that's ok when we're predicting, isn't it? :) I think 1080p under $2k street is very near indeed.

I was vigorously watching the 720p market from around Sept 2006 and was quite surprised to find 2 drop WAY down there in January of this year (HD70 and the Mits) just prior to CES. I've seen strong contenders (ie. not the disastrous SP5000 which was the first 720p under $1k) drop by 40% in 3 months and then stabilize (ie. the HD1000u is still $850ish 4 months later). I believe this trend will only continue aggressively. Unfortunately, it won't help Claus very much, since it's basically low-end DLPs we're talking about here, and they'll all have offset. LCD features like a hyper zoom range and lens shift will continue to cost more than their (not so) straight shooting DLP counterparts.

My dad just bought a 1080p 52" Mits DLP projection TV with stand for $1350. Call me crazy, but aside from the mass market volume advantage that a TV sold at Costco would have, isn't it actually probably cheaper to make a projector than a cabinet TV? Similar small DLP unit, lens, lamp, video processing chips... I think we're well on our way!

Rear projection 1080 DLP isn't straight up 1920x1080 like I understand is used in front projection (the wobulation thing). And there's a lot more room in a big cabinet for less efficient cooling solutions. And never underestimate the profit power of low price volume selling (any industry group with sales numbers of RP DLP vs FP DLP out there?)

wobulation doesn't exist anymore It was a stop gap measure and now 99.99% of 1080p hdtvs are true 1080p

I wouldn't be surprised if 1080p was available at the 2k mark (street) by the end of this year. I don't think it will be under 1k in 08, but it will be on it's way down towards that number for sure.

My dad just bought a 1080p 52" Mits DLP projection TV with stand for $1350. Call me crazy, but aside from the mass market volume advantage that a TV sold at Costco would have, isn't it actually probably cheaper to make a projector than a cabinet TV? Similar small DLP unit, lens, lamp, video processing chips... I think we're well on our way!

*opinion disclaimer*

It's not so much the cost of the hardware (which is always dropping), but the cost of the product development which matters. To recoup the cost, you can either sell a lot (TVs), or sell with a larger markup (Projectors). Until projectors really gain traction as a main viewing device, I don't expect the costs for entry-level projectors, or any level projector to drop much more. Conversely, hardware and software will only get better as time progresses, so the entry level projectors should get better and better. I just don't think we'll see the price levels change as much as they have in the last few years. I believe the last few years have been an anomaly associated with projector quality and convenience catching up with TV quality and convenience, attracting a new market that wasn't there not too long ago (due to price and technology being not quite at the level it was at for TVs). To see any major improvements in the viewing experience for entry-level projectors, we'd have to see major improvements in the viewing experience across the board. Now that 1080p is here, and contrast levels haven't improved all that much and dynamic irises are the norm, something drastically new will have to show up in order to see a significant improvement across the board.

The Epson 1080 from the Epson Store is now $2400 with the rebate. See Special Forums-Great Deals. I don't know how low the prices on 1080p projs. will be at CEDIA, but they're not going to go up.

BenQ is coming out with the W500 (720p LCD) this summer and I've seen it for pre-order for 1200$ CDN at a BenQ recommended online retailer (I expect this would mean a sub-1000$ street price in the US). As far as I know, this would make it the least expensive LCD 720p projector out there (not including leftover stock from previous years). I have no idea about the quality (though their DLPs are usually well reviewed) but at that price point, WITH lens shift (something I've only seen on 1500$-street price-LCDs and up and never on a DLP under 3000$), this becomes a front runner for me to consider (pending actually seeing one, of course).

Quickly - sorry when I mentioned CES, I actually meant CEDIA, that's when new PJs come out and the biggest price drops happen.

The Epson 1080 from the Epson Store is now $2400 with the rebate.

Not sure how you got to 2400, but good price at 2700 nevertheless. Althought it is 3-LCD and I am partital to DLP, this one is worth considering especially if you want a big screen. Seems to have extra lumens. Things are getting quite interesting. I think I might just sit tight a little longer before doing an upgrade.

i have a benq 7700 and i am in the same boat as alota people, when to make the switch. i am waiting till the next bulb dies before i upgrade unless dlp hit 1500, or d-ila hits 2500-2700 (the SXRD is getting closer). i am not a lcd fan, but the last pj i really looked at closely was the sony HS51A and i couldnt take the screen door then, but things could and pobably have changed sense then.

Sharp 12000 MKII is the best 720p PJ out there today and avail. for $2K at local warehouse or its website with 90D MBG.

Sanyo Z5 baby! :D

I'll second that "Sharp 12000 MKII is the best 720p PJ out there today", gated mine last friday and projecting on 106" diag DUY screen ( Designer White) in high contrast and econom lamp mode have very impressive picture! :)

I'll second that "Sharp 12000 MKII is the best 720p PJ out there today", gated mine last friday and projecting on 106" diag DUY screen ( Designer White) in high contrast and econom lamp mode have very impressive picture! :)

What is your opinion based on?, not to start a debate but have you compared the Sharp 12000 MK II to any other high end 720p projectors...(Benq 8720). Im in the midst of an upgrade and the two pj's are at my tops right now. :cool:

I'll throw in another vote for Sanyo Z5.

Those that have the Z5: I am torn between that and the competing Panasonic. Only one potential issue stands in the way.

"...when examining the Z5 image close up, you can see distinct pixel structure... How big of a deal is this? If you plan to view a very large image from a close distance, say a 120" diagonal picture from a distance of ten feet, you will see some subtle pixelation in the Z5 image."

(taken from the Panasonic PT-AX100 vs. Sanyo PLV-Z5 shootout @ ProjectorCentral)

Are you noticing this? I plan to be 10-11 feet away from a 106" screen, so I am a bit concerned. Also, they don't rate it all that well on ambient light; I'm curious as to what you all are finding in that regard.

Many thanks!

>What is your opinion based on?, not to start a debate but have you compared the Sharp 12000 MK II to any other high end 720p projectors...(Benq 8720). Im in the midst of an upgrade and the two pj's are at my tops right now.

Well the Sharp is $2000, the 8720 is still well over $3k.

What is your opinion based on?, not to start a debate but have you compared the Sharp 12000 MK II to any other high end 720p projectors...(Benq 8720). Im in the midst of an upgrade and the two pj's are at my tops right now. :cool:
From the reviews of these projectors I'd take the sharp (http://www.ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1105sharp/index3.html) over the Benq (http://ultimateavmag.com/videoprojectors/1006benq8/index1.html) "maximum of contrast ratio of 3161:1"-on 8720 with 4272:1 on Z12k(with much better blacks!). And the Sharp IS the HIGH END(720p) proj. IMHO :D

I bought a slightly used Panasonic PT-AE900 this past winter for $900, and it has be one of the best current values out there. The best "bang for the buck" is usually last years models in the projector world. If you look hard you might be able to find the 900 new for around $1,100, or you can find them in used like I did for less than that.

I am still amazed at the quality of picture this projector puts out, especially with an HD source. I really have no desire to upgrade right now, and will at least wait until "last years" 1080p models get cheaper. Depreciation is kind to those who can wait! ;)

Sharp 12K MKII usually sells for 4-5K everywhere else but this warehouse site/store. It was 10K when it debut. It's the king daddy of 720p due to DC3 DLP DMD, irises, great scaler, well built, great reputation (better than BenQ), and great optics. Its weaknesses are long throw (needs longer room), no HDMI (DVI/HDCP is just as good but needs special cabling/adapters), relatively loud, and big (2 X 2 ft). Here is the back of the 12000 MKII: http://www.plasmacity.com/LCD_DISPLAYS/SHARP/IMAGES/NEW/XV_Z12000_7_p.jpg

My special cabling for my sharp (dvi/hdmi adapter) cost about $6. Now I can connect my upscaling DVD player using the HDMI out.

Loudness is relative. I don't find the sharp loud at all.
It is big, but I don't see it with the lights out.

I'll give you longer throw though. I have mine about 16 1/2 feet back

I just can't get over how big this thing is. WAF would be a killer. The fact that it has a long throw and it's a little loud just adds to the reasons I don't think I'll jump on that deal.

My wife doesn't like the size. But that's actually a benefit to me. It's mounted right about my seat. Its size scares my wife, meaning no one but me gets to sit in my seat now!

Win-win.

Regarding the loudness - it's only a couple of feet above my head. Directly above my head.
I can't hear anything from it when I'm watching a movie.

It's not loud.

Loud.....not Loud.....Loud....not Loud.......unless there is a better way to verify this for each person other than dishing out $2400 bucks, then everyone's determination of what loud is will be relative. Maybe it is time to make some real world comparisons that everyone is familiar with. I am glad to know that the noise is more air related than wheel related. Wheel related can drive you insane at times.

My real world comparison...

I had a panny ax100 about 2 or 3 feet in front of me and on the ceiling. That was running in eco mode & high alt (high fan) mode.

The sharp directly above me on the ceiling in eco mode is probably not quite as loud as the panny in high alt mode.

So there's at least one data point that's hopefully helpful.

...My dad just bought a 1080p 52" Mits DLP projection TV with stand for $1350. Call me crazy, but aside from the mass market volume advantage that a TV sold at Costco would have, isn't it actually probably cheaper to make a projector than a cabinet TV? Similar small DLP unit, lens, lamp, video processing chips... I think we're well on our way!The requirements to project a 1080p image on a 52" screen are far less strict than it is for a 100" screen (about 1/4 the area.)

Nevertheless, front projectors do not need cabinetry or audio systems and are less costly to ship than a DLP box. The cost would drop significantly if volume sales were higher.

My wife doesn't like the size. But that's actually a benefit to me. It's mounted right about my seat. Its size scares my wife, meaning no one but me gets to sit in my seat now!

Win-win.

Regarding the loudness - it's only a couple of feet above my head. Directly above my head.
I can't hear anything from it when I'm watching a movie.

It's not loud.

HA! bqmeister, you may not be able to hear the pj but will you be able to hear your wife next to you telling you how loud it is...women notice EVERYTHING!

...women notice EVERYTHING!

They remember EVERYTHING too. Can't be too careful about what you utter around them.