well i just recevied my replacement 5076 due to the problems i was having with the hls5087...and I have a big problem...like many of your the geometry on my set is terrible...the screen is just so incredibly flimsy on this set...i am having samsung come take a look at it...hopefully i can get this resolved..i will keep you all up to date

well i just recevied my replacement 5076 due to the problems i was having with the hls5087...and I have a big problem...like many of your the geometry on my set is terrible...the screen is just so incredibly flimsy on this set...i am having samsung come take a look at it...hopefully i can get this resolved..i will keep you all up to date

sorry to hear that bro, I was kinda nervous when I went I picked mine up, but I guess I lucked out. Let us know how samsung does for ya

well i just recevied my replacement 5076 due to the problems i was having with the hls5087...and I have a big problem...like many of your the geometry on my set is terrible...the screen is just so incredibly flimsy on this set...i am having samsung come take a look at it...hopefully i can get this resolved..i will keep you all up to date


Make sure you read the above posts about the geometry fix, so you can them come out there prepared.

Make sure you read the above posts about the geometry fix, so you can them come out there prepared.

Has anyone had this extra screw geometry fix actually done? Like probably most, my bowing/smiley face is fairly minor and I could live with continuing to play with shims to help, especially since I love everything else about the set, but if there's an actual, confirmed fix I'll deal with Samsung to get it done. Is the screw placed in an existing hole or is this a technician-dependent band-aid?

yea i have read about the screw fix...if the guy is stumped tomorrow when he comes out i will bring it up...i will let you all know what happens

I've been waiting a week for tech to get back to me on screw fix, no call yet.I'll be interested,cuz if they dont fix it I'm working on getting a 46lcd from them

Picts

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9453293@N04/?saved=1

Picts

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9453293@N04/?saved=1

nice seating ;) does it have a bass shaker on it as well?

well the samsung service guy just came out to check out my bowing problem...the bowing is still evident but much better than before so i am satisfied for the most part....he fixed the bowing by adjusting the mirrors...i asked him about the screw fix and he said he hasnt heard anything but if a complete fix does come available he said he would call me....has anyone gotten the screw fix done yet?

nice seating ;) does it have a bass shaker on it as well?


LOL

My son refuses to wear his glasses so he puts a rattan chair in front of our seats.

well the samsung service guy just came out to check out my bowing problem...the bowing is still evident but much better than before so i am satisfied for the most part....he fixed the bowing by adjusting the mirrors...i asked him about the screw fix and he said he hasnt heard anything but if a complete fix does come available he said he would call me....has anyone gotten the screw fix done yet?

I told you guys to tell the tech to call samsung tier 2 so they can let them know about. A partial fix, is no fix.

Well, I got the HL-T6176S in yesterdy morning as the replacement. Was a Slight bow effect, 1/2 inch from center on bottom left handside. Had a tech that was able to come out the same day "SamSung" atherized. As much as he had good intentions, the TV is now alittle worse, and I now have a trapazoid efftect /__\ .

Also i am noticing I have some bleed off from text on the screen with a black background and white text.

I can tell tho, that this TV ( once fixxed ) will look 10X better then my old HLN 61. If and when I get this one working right. I'm just glad I didn't get told "Alittle Bowing is to be expected" I would of thrown a fit. The Samsung help desk and support are very friendly, and at least acted as if they really do care, refreshing in this day and age.

EQRoxxx

and if they dont fix it?so far been waiting 2 weeks to confirm this bowing fix,and yes have spoken to tier 2 guys ,still no confirmation.

We received our HL-T5076S on Wednesday. All I can say is WOW! After adjusting the set to recommended start setting read in this forum we obtained an "like looking out the window" HD picture.
We do, however, have that bow problem that some are talking about & I'm not sure which would be better; replace or fix. This bow is mostly in the center-left side of the screen & isn't noticeable until TV guide or other straight line graphs are on the screen. We bought the set from BB & have 30 days to decide.
Another thing is the set appears to have red push. Got to have a tweak in the service menu for that one someplace.

and if they dont fix it?so far been waiting 2 weeks to confirm this bowing fix,and yes have spoken to tier 2 guys ,still no confirmation.

I wish all these tech guys would get on the same page. I called again to tier 2 and the guy had no clue what I'm talking about regarding the bow fix with the extra screw. I then hung up and called again, this time someone knew what I was talking about. This is ********. Spread the damn news for godsakes! I'm glad I haven't purchased it again yet. I hope someone tells us they got a tech to come out and fix the bowing. If you get a tech come out and he doesn't know, then call Tier 2 as many times as it takes to get the tech and the tier 2 tech on the phone together.

hmm perhaps I should test the tv before I take it home usb jump drive to the rescue, just glad at least one store carries this model.

Does anyone know where I can get a guide to the HL-Txx76S service menu or known tweaks? After pressing Mute-1-8-2 Power I do get into the service menu but I would feel more confortable knowing what's on each page. The service menu for the HL-Txx76S series is quit different than the one that's used in my old Samsung 3079 CRTs service menu.
All help is appreciated.

Does anyone know where I can get a guide to the HL-Txx76S service menu or known tweaks? After pressing Mute-1-8-2 Power I do get into the service menu but I would feel more confortable knowing what's on each page. The service menu for the HL-Txx76S series is quit different than the one that's used in my old Samsung 3079 CRTs service menu.
All help is appreciated.

I second this request cus im going to be jumping into that menu first thing most likely.

Well, I got the HL-T6176S in yesterdy morning as the replacement. Was a Slight bow effect, 1/2 inch from center on bottom left handside. Had a tech that was able to come out the same day "SamSung" atherized. As much as he had good intentions, the TV is now alittle worse, and I now have a trapazoid efftect /__\ .

Also i am noticing I have some bleed off from text on the screen with a black background and white text.

I can tell tho, that this TV ( once fixxed ) will look 10X better then my old HLN 61. If and when I get this one working right. I'm just glad I didn't get told "Alittle Bowing is to be expected" I would of thrown a fit. The Samsung help desk and support are very friendly, and at least acted as if they really do care, refreshing in this day and age.

EQRoxxx

Please keep us updated.

I have a HL-T4675. Problems with HDMI 1 and 2.
(yes I know its 75 series and not 76 series; but if I can fix it before another tech comes out and destroys another TV that would be good)


Question 1:
HDMI Black Level - Page 32

On HDMI “2” I can adjust HDMI Black Level and it works great!

On HDMI “1” The HDMI Black Level is “grayed out” – non adjustable. I called Samsung support and they have “no” answer, so they are sending a tech out.

Since the last “6” Samsung techs set to my house have destroyed the set(s), I am of course concerned!

Does anyone know how to make it work?



Question 2: (this is using a Sony HDD500 HD Recorder)
1080i input on HDMI (both ports) the video shakes and vibrates real fast on anything horizontal in the picture. Feeding it 720p the picture is smooth as silk.

Connections on the components with either 1080i or 720p are smooth as silk.

Anyone else have that problem?

well it has been a couple days since the tech came out and made some minor adjustments to fix the bowing...at the time i felt that he did a good job and that the problem was pretty much solved...well after turning the set on for the first time in a couple of days i noticed that the bowing was just as bad as it was before...so needless to say the tech really didnt fix much and now i dont know what else to do....i am going to call samsung and see what they say...i will let you know..and also has anyone heard anything new regarding the screw fix?

well it has been a couple days since the tech came out and made some minor adjustments to fix the bowing...at the time i felt that he did a good job and that the problem was pretty much solved...well after turning the set on for the first time in a couple of days i noticed that the bowing was just as bad as it was before...so needless to say the tech really didnt fix much and now i dont know what else to do....i am going to call samsung and see what they say...i will let you know..and also has anyone heard anything new regarding the screw fix?

No one has insisted that Samsung make this fix or no fix at all, therefore no one has posted any tech fixing it this way. You need to speak to a tier 2 that understands what your'e talking about and understands what the screw fix is. Tell them that the tech that came out did not know what this is. The tech will get briefed on this before he comes out again. Please update after calling samsung..

Two things to know:

1.

I called Samsung to now find that they don't let just anyone talk to Tier 2. They now need to get permission....hmmm. They can only transfer you to Tier 2 if you have a technical question, so make sure it is technical.

2.

If a tech comes out and doesn't know what you are talking about when regarding the bowing fix w/an extra screw, there is a number he can call to get assistance. Phone#: 973-601-6119. We can not call this number. We need to provide an Account# and verify the techs name and all kinds of other junk...I tried.

So next time you call to have the tech come out, ask Samsung support for the phone# to which you will be making your appointment with. Once the appointment has been made also ask for them to make a note regarding the bowing fix with the extra screw. This way they will make a note to the tech who will be coming to your home. If the trech does come out and still was not aware of this fix, tell him to use the phone# above to get assistance about this. Hopefully someone will get this done soon so I can stop going crazy..

Anyone know if the HL-T7288W has this bowing problem or is it just with the S models?

Any other known problems with the HL-T7288W?

Thanks

Anyone know if the HL-T7288W has this bowing problem or is it just with the S models?

Any other known problems with the HL-T7288W?

Thanks

This site is not for the 88W's. Read the thread title. If you need to pose questions for the 88W's and you can not find a thread for it....make one!

Anyone know if the HL-T7288W has this bowing problem or is it just with the S models?

Any other known problems with the HL-T7288W?

ThanksTry here.

HL-T7288W...First impressions (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10634357&&#post10634357)

In general the 2007 72" set will have most of the characteristics of the 2006 71" model so for reliability questions you can read here too.

Samsung 71' 1080P DLP HL-S7178W (owners) (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=700612)

Two things to know:

1.

I called Samsung to now find that they don't let just anyone talk to Tier 2. They now need to get permission....hmmm. They can only transfer you to Tier 2 if you have a technical question, so make sure it is technical.

2.

If a tech comes out and doesn't know what you are talking about when regarding the bowing fix w/an extra screw, there is a number he can call to get assistance. Phone#: 973-601-6119. We can not call this number. We need to provide an Account# and verify the techs name and all kinds of other junk...I tried.

So next time you call to have the tech come out, ask Samsung support for the phone# to which you will be making your appointment with. Once the appointment has been made also ask for them to make a note regarding the bowing fix with the extra screw. This way they will make a note to the tech who will be coming to your home. If the trech does come out and still was not aware of this fix, tell him to use the phone# above to get assistance about this. Hopefully someone will get this done soon so I can stop going crazy..
This is great info. for current 76S owners who have the bowing problem. Perhaps I'll be an owner of this TV one day, but by then, I hope the fix is already implemented before they send these TVs to stores.

Likely buying the tv tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully I have no bowing issue tomorrow. Cus I will go nuts if ninja gaiden sigma is bowing I can't accept such shannanigans.

Likely buying the tv tonight or tomorrow. Hopefully I have no bowing issue tomorrow. Cus I will go nuts if ninja gaiden sigma is bowing I can't accept such shannanigans.

Keep us updated. Thanks

Had to look inside my HLT5676, power supply and electronics on the left, light engine on the right. The big upper mirror looks like it's fixed in the front but is adjustable at the rear. Loosen the four screws at the top of the back panel and there's a left and right adjustment cam.

Shinka,

Did you see a focus adjustment ring on the light engine? Thanks.

Alvin

Well my Samsung tech just left. I was having issues with bowing, and trapazoid. I am running this 61 inch on my PS3 and one of my spare computers serving as a media server, so I was very perticular when it came to every corner and edge being square.

I asked the the tech about the "Screw" idea, and he had no clue what I was talking about, tho he did say everything could be adjusted from the inside.

The tech got everything withen 3 millmeters from one corner to the other. Took him about 2 hours to calibrate everything, and I must admit that everything is near perfect. He used a machine I forget it's name, but looked like a mini computer to place a display on the computer using componat cables. I didn't stick around to watch hm too much as I know how frustrating things can get especially if you have a customer looking over your shoulder. ( I am a Electricain, and work in alot of custom homes installing smart home systems, and such )

There is still some slight bowing effect, that can be manually adjusted buy placing a small item ( I used a small tac nail ) into the upper frame to get it just perfect. Even while using my computer to get a straight line I can not see a bow at all now. Tho if you adjust your DLP alot you will constantly have to readjust the bowing, as the frame of this item is very "Weak". But over all I would have to say that this DLP is as close to a LCD screen I have seen on any DLP, and am even thinking of buying a secound for my computer room. The only downside is the frame, but once it's calibrated, buy a tech, and alittle finnese, you can get a perfect picture.

I give it a 9/10 Only downside I would say is it needs a better frame, to support it's own weight. But everything else is perfect.

EQRoxxx

so is this bowing issue not coming from the inside but rather the projection 'to' the screen? If this is the case then wouldn't this be considered a recall should enough people complain?

well the service center is sending a guy back out on thursday and they said they had a few new things to try out...I will let you guys know what happens..later

I wouldn't consider it to be a defect, and a recall is needed, It's just my personal needs require everything to be perfect. Normal specs of any DLP your allowed to have up to 6 mill off from center, mine was only 3. And I fixed that myself with a small tweak.

EQRoxxx

My parents just purchased this TV and we just got it set up. I have yet to check for bowing but did notice something else. I wanted to see if anyone on here could help me out. Put in a movie for them and it had black bars on top and bottom. In the bottom black bar a little to the right of the Samsung logo there is a mushroom shaped lighter area. This shape appears lighter than the rest of the black screen. I put on a blank input and it was noticable on that screen too, so it is not source material. It looks as though light is escaping this are more than the rest of the screen. The shape will get larger and smaller too but will not go away. Again, it looks as though more light is shining through. It is easiest to see when you are below the center of the screen. If you are above center it is not visible. This is a brand new TV and I'm dreading hauling it back to the store. Anyone have any ideas as to what this could be?

Anyone have any ideas as to what this could be?If you turn out all the lights at night and it's still there then it's an internal reflection just as you guessed. If it's not there with the lights out, then it's coming from some external light source.

Both conditions are common in RPTV sets. If the set is fine in all other respects, then think carefully before you return it. I assume that you don't see it when you watch HDTV and there are no black bars.

If you have a thirty day return period give it some time before you return the set.

Well my Samsung tech just left. I was having issues with bowing, and trapazoid. I am running this 61 inch on my PS3 and one of my spare computers serving as a media server, so I was very perticular when it came to every corner and edge being square.

I asked the the tech about the "Screw" idea, and he had no clue what I was talking about, tho he did say everything could be adjusted from the inside.

The tech got everything withen 3 millmeters from one corner to the other. Took him about 2 hours to calibrate everything, and I must admit that everything is near perfect. He used a machine I forget it's name, but looked like a mini computer to place a display on the computer using componat cables. I didn't stick around to watch hm too much as I know how frustrating things can get especially if you have a customer looking over your shoulder. ( I am a Electricain, and work in alot of custom homes installing smart home systems, and such )

There is still some slight bowing effect, that can be manually adjusted buy placing a small item ( I used a small tac nail ) into the upper frame to get it just perfect. Even while using my computer to get a straight line I can not see a bow at all now. Tho if you adjust your DLP alot you will constantly have to readjust the bowing, as the frame of this item is very "Weak". But over all I would have to say that this DLP is as close to a LCD screen I have seen on any DLP, and am even thinking of buying a secound for my computer room. The only downside is the frame, but once it's calibrated, buy a tech, and alittle finnese, you can get a perfect picture.

I give it a 9/10 Only downside I would say is it needs a better frame, to support it's own weight. But everything else is perfect.

EQRoxxx

Interesting, would you please post of picture of exactly where you placed the small tack nail into the frame.

Shinka,

Did you see a focus adjustment ring on the light engine? Thanks.

Alvin
There is an adjustment ring between the color wheel and the DLP but I don't know what it does and am afraid to turn it The service manual shows a special tool turning a screw in the center of the DLP heatsink for the focus adjustment.

Here are the pictures. I replaced the tac nail with some pennies so that you could see it better, also took pics of the screen it self, and the Item the tech used to get rid of the trapazoid effect.


http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/eqdruid/?action=view&current=IMGP0360.jpg

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/eqdruid/?action=view&current=IMGP0361.jpg


http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/eqdruid/?action=view&current=IMGP0363.jpg

http://s149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/eqdruid/?action=view&current=IMGP0364.jpg

EQRoxxx

If you turn out all the lights at night and it's still there then it's an internal reflection just as you guessed. If it's not there with the lights out, then it's coming from some external light source.

Both conditions are common in RPTV sets. If the set is fine in all other respects, then think carefully before you return it. I assume that you don't see it when you watch HDTV and there are no black bars.

If you have a thirty day return period give it some time before you return the set.

It is still there with all lights out. What would cause the reflection from the inside? We were very careful in moving it. Is there a way that it can be fixed? It is pretty annoying. It can really only be seen when a dark background is over it. Whether it is in HD or not. Is there a chance it could go away? It's so disappointing to pay all this money and then get something that lets you down. I have a Sharp Aquos and dealt with the banding problem. I thought my parents made the right choice with this TV. Should they get a tech out to adjust something or just return?

Should they get a tech out to adjust something or just return?I don't know of any adjustment. In the past people have done extensive modifications to RPTV sets to reduce internal reflections. That's not something I would recommend. You can try exchanges or a refund. Each technology will have it's own set of problems. The trick is to find one that irritates you the least amount.

Does anyone else suffer from internal reflections? Wish I would have never even noticed it because I know they wouldn't have. But since I went through all the hassle with an Aquos with banding I spot things easy now. It is sad you pay all this money but yet have to decide which problems you want to live with.

It is sad you pay all this money but yet have to decide which problems you want to live with.That may be your problem. "All this money" doesn't protect you from the problems associated with technology. :eek:

There are all kinds of PQ problems that can be worse than internal reflections. It's a gamble no matter which way you jump. :o

Any new news regarding the bowing fix?

the service guy is coming out again this afternoon..i will let you all know what happens

the service guy is coming out again this afternoon..i will let you all know what happens

Please Do. Thanks

so fry's electronics pissed me off so i wont be getting it from them I am going after work to circuit city who is price matching them and just get it from the company that wants money.

so fry's electronics pissed me off so i wont be getting it from them I am going after work to circuit city who is price matching them and just get it from the company that wants money.


What happened?

so the service guy left not to long ago and he could not get the bowing fixed...he worked on it for a long time and he could just not figure it out...he called samsung and asked about any possible fixes and they said there was nothing he could do other than what he had already tried...they made no mention of the screw fix and i asked the service guy directly if he knew anything of it and he looked at me like i was crazy...he asked samsung about the screw fix and they also knew nothing of it....so now they filed the service action worksheet which means samsung will either give me a replacement our do something else to fix the tv...i think i am just going to ask to get one of the samsung 46" lcds considering this is now the 2nd samsung dlp that has gone bad and my patience with poor geometry is running out.... i will let you all know what happens...later

so the service guy left not to long ago and he could not get the bowing fixed...he worked on it for a long time and he could just not figure it out...he called samsung and asked about any possible fixes and they said there was nothing he could do other than what he had already tried...they made no mention of the screw fix and i asked the service guy directly if he knew anything of it and he looked at me like i was crazy...he asked samsung about the screw fix and they also knew nothing of it....so now they filed the service action worksheet which means samsung will either give me a replacement our do something else to fix the tv...i think i am just going to ask to get one of the samsung 46" lcds considering this is now the 2nd samsung dlp that has gone bad and my patience with poor geometry is running out.... i will let you all know what happens...later

****! Not the news i wanted to hear, or anyone wanted to hear. I feel like i got lied to by samsung techs, or their inconsistency sucks. Either way i am frustrated. I was looking at the 46" Samsung as well. but it's $1000 more, and doesn't have as lose to a life span of quality as does the dlp. I'm assuming they would definitely make you pay the difference between the Hl-T and the Ln-t lcd screen? If not, maybe I'll try the same. I still feel this is something that is from tech to tech and from Samsung tier2 to another tier2. Some have dealt with it, others haven't.

In fact, I am calling them right now!

guys it has been mentioned a few times already that you need to specifically ask for a tier 2 tech. next person that gets a samsung rep in their home has to do it right ... hope it isn't me but I will if i have to

What happened?
I told them I want the 61" tv and I will want 200 bucks off the 2400 tag and I will pick up from them the 300 dollar stand and the 300 dollar x70 samsung surround and a full set of ceiling mounts plus cables. They said to get the discount I would have to prove someone can offer that price that has a store or warehouse in az ... i told them office depot has them for 1980 so I was doing them a favor by not asking for 400 off. The guy calls and says that they verified the price and that it can be picked up in their office depot warehouse but the purchase has to be done online. So he wouldn't give me a discount cus the full purchase could not be done in person. I said, 'screw you guys im goin home'.- Cartman, SouthPark

guys it has been mentioned a few times already that you need to specifically ask for a tier 2 tech. next person that gets a samsung rep in their home has to do it right ... hope it isn't me but I will if i have to

I called Samsung again and it seems now even the tier2 can't find anything on a screw fix. Are we being lied to??

He said if there is such a fix the local authorized tech center will know about it. What ********. I totally got the opposite response from the last tier2 I talked to. He also told me that he hasn't heard of this being prevalent in these TV's,..another BS comment, along with the comment that there is always bowing within a certain spec. I've seen DLP's with no bowing whatsoever. Along with these earpiercing comments he asked if i had things on top of my television, and is it balanced. Like I'm a ******.

I'm stuck between a rock and hard place with Samsung. I love the 50" DLP PQ, but the geometry is god awful in a good percentage of these TV's. If I go with the LN-T4665F I need to make sure it was made in June or later to insure the motherboard is the one that isn't faulty, and on top of it the LCD is $1000 more!.

So do I take my chances with another Sammy DLP and hope for the best, and if it is screwed up again hope I can get Samsung to fix it orrectly and not screw it up more. Or do I buy the more expensive lcd? Which one has a better high def PQ??

AAHHHHHH!!!!

I called Samsung again and it seems now even the tier2 can't find anything on a screw fix. Are we being lied to??

He said if there is such a fix the local authorized tech center will know about it. What ********. I totally got the opposite response from the last tier2 I talked to. He also told me that he hasn't heard of this being prevalent in these TV's,..another BS comment, along with the comment that there is always bowing within a certain spec. I've seen DLP's with no bowing whatsoever. Along with these earpiercing comments he asked if i had things on top of my television, and is it balanced. Like I'm a ******.

I'm stuck between a rock and hard place with Samsung. I love the 50" DLP PQ, but the geometry is god awful in a good percentage of these TV's. If I go with the LN-T4665F I need to make sure it was made in June or later to insure the motherboard is the one that isn't faulty, and on top of it the LCD is $1000 more!.

So do I take my chances with another Sammy DLP and hope for the best, and if it is screwed up again hope I can get Samsung to fix it orrectly and not screw it up more. Or do I buy the more expensive lcd? Which one has a better high def PQ??

AAHHHHHH!!!!

Is there a difference from the 50 to the 61 in how many are bowing? My 61 has no bowing to speak of so maybe you could get them to let you try a 61 with them picking up the difference.

Just a thought.

Is there a difference from the 50 to the 61 in how many are bowing? My 61 has no bowing to speak of so maybe you could get them to let you try a 61 with them picking up the difference.

Just a thought.

Thanks for the thought, but the 50" is already too big. I might go grab the 56" b/c it's only $1599.

Can you send a picture of your TV with a widescreen picture on it. It would help. Thanks.

Does Amazon have 0% financing???

bought the tv at circuit city of all places cus they obviously wanted to make the sale ($3k total in product) but since it was late last night I didn't get the chance to work on it and get it setup. I bought a techcraft stand to match and the x70 surround with ceiling mounts. I will do my best to get everything setup today but unless my cable is turned on this weekend noone will know how it went until monday. I will run a few tests on my unit to see if I have some bowing going on but from what I saw at circuit city this tv should be flawless. Also to point out these tv's don't appear to have a large amount of overscan at all. Compared with the lcd and plasma tv's next to it, the xx76s tv's easily show more of the image in all directions.

I just spoke with ECR executive customer relations and this bowing issue is inherant to the new slim rptv design due to the concave mirrors. The JVC RPTV are doing this as well.

Cannot be corrected.

I just spoke with ECR executive customer relations and this bowing issue is inherant to the new slim rptv design due to the concave mirrors. The JVC RPTV are doing this as well.

Cannot be corrected.


The problem has to be correctable. If someone's TV has it and anothers does not, it has to be correctable. If I bought one TV and it was horrible when compared to the one at the store, then it has to be able to be corrected. Plus the HL-S versions had similiar problems and they weren't slim.

that's bs that it cannot be corrected anything can be corrected we are just getting pushed around. Why would some people have it and others don't using the same exact specs and equipment and how could there even be an issue if some people have it and others don't? That ECR rep should be demoted to toilet cleaner.

that's bs that it cannot be corrected anything can be corrected we are just getting pushed around. Why would some people have it and others don't using the same exact specs and equipment and how could there even be an issue if some people have it and others don't? That ECR rep should be demoted to toilet cleaner.

YES! The ECR Rep can suck a dong!

This is not Samsung only - this is JVC as well read sound and vision magazine about this geometry and bowing issue with this technology.

Despite so much good coming from the HD-58S998, I did discover a notable problem with the set's picture geometry. I noticed early on that the grid lines in onscreen program guides, which should have been perfectly horizontal, were bending up slightly at the outer left and right edges of the screen. This effect started about a third of the way up from the bottom and worsened until leveling off a bit near the top of the screen. JVC sent along another sample of the TV that exhibited the same behavior, and the company confirmed that the distortion — a side effect of the concave mirror — appears to be in all current samples and can't be adjusted out. Fortunately, it's virtually undetectable when a program fully fills the screen from top to bottom. On the other hand, it's fairly obvious on program grids and whenever there are horizontal graphics near the top of the screen, as with the onscreen scorekeepers for sports events. It's also visible on letterboxed movies, where the bottom edge of the top bar bows downward as it meets the image.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/2320/jvc-hd-58s998-58-inch-slim-hd-ila-1080p-hdtv-page3.html


FYI

Does anyone have some good pictures taken of this TV with a HD source. If so, please post. Thanks

Interesting article nrc2112

Which TV? The JVC or the Samsung?

JM - Yes I found it interesting as well - I currently own the H-LT6176S and enjoy the PQ very much. I have bowing on SD sources as well as the menu and DTV guides. I mainly use this in our basement theater so we watch only HD material so we do not notice the bowing when using this set. For our everyday TV viewing we our going to get a Plasma or LCD flatpanel to hang in the living room.

TC

I have learned to live with the geometry but is anyone having alot of loud popping coming form the tv? Sometimes it is so loud you can hear it all the way through the house.

Interesting article nrc2112
Yes very good article, thanks, and a good site that I have not seen before.

I took from the article that any rear projection tv that uses concave projection mirrors, will have geometric distortions(bowing).
So which rear projection tv's do not have bowing?

I'm really liking the HLT-5676S, sold at Sears, but with all the NFL football I'll be watching, the "ticker tape" scores being out of alignment will really bother me.

I'm comparing the Samsung HLT-5676S, Mitsubishi WDY57, and JVC HD61FN97.

Samsung leads the race to be the next tv in my house.

if this is some kind of known issue with all things dlp then the only option is to get an lcd or plasma. At 120hz refresh rate you can't go wrong with this tv to watch games/sports or fast action flicks. use my pics from earlier to see if bowing is that big of a deal

How long has everybody had there tvs?I got the 5676s a little over a month ago and ive noticed that the bowing has gotten better over time

Yes very good article, thanks, and a good site that I have not seen before.

I took from the article that any rear projection tv that uses concave projection mirrors, will have geometric distortions(bowing).
So which rear projection tv's do not have bowing?

I'm really liking the HLT-5676S, sold at Sears, but with all the NFL football I'll be watching, the "ticker tape" scores being out of alignment will really bother me.

I'm comparing the Samsung HLT-5676S, Mitsubishi WDY57, and JVC HD61FN97.

Samsung leads the race to be the next tv in my house.

Thanks!

I have had the WDY57 the 5676S and the sammy has a better PQ and user adjustments. JVC very good much better than the mitsu. But I stuck with the Sammy :D

Anyone try the Gamma to zero mods from the HLS series?

If so, what are the results/reccomendations on ther HLT?

On the HLS it was night & day, a must do mod if you don't want crushed blacks& artifacting!

thanks

Ps,
so this tv HLT5076s will do 24p from my ps3, correct?

Receiving it sunday in place of my bunk HLS5087

How long has everybody had there tvs?I got the 5676s a little over a month ago and ive noticed that the bowing has gotten better over time


I've got mine today, but bought 2 5076S's that had too much bowing. I now bought a 5676S with a little bowing but very even and equal on both sides. Hopefully over time it will get better. I do have more of a whine coming out of the back than i did on the 5076, but i've heard that goes away over time as well. Please let me know if you have had experience with this.

Anyone try the Gamma to zero mods from the HLS series?

If so, what are the results/reccomendations on ther HLT?Use the calibration link at the bottom of my post. Then take the Avical starter settings link for HL-T sets. They are still using Gamma equal zero.

I just received an 5676S as a replacement for my JVC 56FN97. So far I am pretty happy with the TV, but I do have a few questions.

There appears to be a reflection at the top of the tv, stretching from one corner to another, that extends down 3 or 4 inches in the center. It appears to be the mirror reflecting down, but I was hoping that someone else is seeing something similar.

I have bowing both at the top and the bottom. I had similar issues with three separate JVC units though, too. Its typical of all rear projection units and is only excacerbated by the slimmer units. You can torque the tv a little and see that it does adjust the image, similar to the JVCs.

I have noticed a slight burning plastic smell. I am assuming this is somewhat normal and will go away in a few days?

And finally, as it turns out, I see rainbows. I noticed it mostly with the lights turned off on high def programming. Anytime there was quick movement onscreen, usually with a lot of detail or on small objects such as a cell phone closing, I saw a quick flicker. On standard def programming and during the day I barely if at all see anything. I have lowered the contrast and brightness since seeing them but haven't had a chance to see if that will make a difference. Is there anything else that can be done to minimize the effect?

I have lowered the contrast and brightness since seeing them but haven't had a chance to see if that will make a difference. Is there anything else that can be done to minimize the effect?If you are watching your TV in a dark room at night then try a dim light behind your set.

What causes the rainbow effect? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7883413&&#post7883413)

What can I do about Rainbows? (http://archive.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=333188)

The second link is from the 2003 HLN model year but if you see rainbow effect then it applys to any color wheel based microchip display.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/2320/jvc-hd-58s998-58-inch-slim-hd-ila-1080p-hdtv-page3.html


FYI
Yes, that is pretty interesting. Thanks. For those who can't/won't click on that link, below is the pertinent paragraph.

Despite so much good coming from the HD-58S998, I did discover a notable problem with the set's picture geometry. I noticed early on that the grid lines in onscreen program guides, which should have been perfectly horizontal, were bending up slightly at the outer left and right edges of the screen. This effect started about a third of the way up from the bottom and worsened until leveling off a bit near the top of the screen. JVC sent along another sample of the TV that exhibited the same behavior, and the company confirmed that the distortion — a side effect of the concave mirror — appears to be in all current samples and can't be adjusted out. Fortunately, it's virtually undetectable when a program fully fills the screen from top to bottom. On the other hand, it's fairly obvious on program grids and whenever there are horizontal graphics near the top of the screen, as with the onscreen scorekeepers for sports events. It's also visible on letterboxed movies, where the bottom edge of the top bar bows downward as it meets the image.

I just received an 5676S as a replacement for my JVC 56FN97. So far I am pretty happy with the TV, but I do have a few questions.

There appears to be a reflection at the top of the tv, stretching from one corner to another, that extends down 3 or 4 inches in the center. It appears to be the mirror reflecting down, but I was hoping that someone else is seeing something similar.

I have bowing both at the top and the bottom. I had similar issues with three separate JVC units though, too. Its typical of all rear projection units and is only excacerbated by the slimmer units. You can torque the tv a little and see that it does adjust the image, similar to the JVCs.

I have noticed a slight burning plastic smell. I am assuming this is somewhat normal and will go away in a few days?

And finally, as it turns out, I see rainbows. I noticed it mostly with the lights turned off on high def programming. Anytime there was quick movement onscreen, usually with a lot of detail or on small objects such as a cell phone closing, I saw a quick flicker. On standard def programming and during the day I barely if at all see anything. I have lowered the contrast and brightness since seeing them but haven't had a chance to see if that will make a difference. Is there anything else that can be done to minimize the effect?

As far as I know the bowing issue came about with the thinner cases it was NOT an issue till then.. As far as rainbows may want to look at the LCOS DLP set. Great geometry and no rainbows!! Was all set to buy a Sansung till they droped the ball big time with their new slimmer cases which caused Major geometry problems. Just took the Plunge on a Sony 50KDS2020 for dirt cheap. After a ton of research the only thing the Samsung has over the Sony is the ability to go 1080P with VGA beyond that it appears the Sony wins out on all fronts.

the burning plastic smell really freaked me out too, it went away after about a week and a half

I just bought the HL-T4675S 2 days ago. Everything seemed fine until today. When I change to one of my cable channels, it goes from color to black and white. When I display the tv guide while I'm on that channel it's also black and white. If i change the channel then the color comes back. I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. I thought it might just be the channel but that same channel on one of my other tv's doesn't have this issue at all.

I just bought the HL-T4675S 2 days ago. Everything seemed fine until today. When I change to one of my cable channels, it goes from color to black and white. When I display the tv guide while I'm on that channel it's also black and white. If i change the channel then the color comes back. I'm wondering if anyone else has this problem. I thought it might just be the channel but that same channel on one of my other tv's doesn't have this issue at all.

Could be the cable box. I would try swapping.

As far as I know the bowing issue came about with the thinner cases it was NOT an issue till then.. As far as rainbows may want to look at the LCOS DLP set. Great geometry and no rainbows!! Was all set to buy a Sansung till they droped the ball big time with their new slimmer cases which caused Major geometry problems. Just took the Plunge on a Sony 50KDS2020 for dirt cheap. After a ton of research the only thing the Samsung has over the Sony is the ability to go 1080P with VGA beyond that it appears the Sony wins out on all fronts.

I had 3 separate JVC LCOS sets and they all had geometry issues. All you have to do is grab the frame of your case and push on it slightly to see how easy it is to have a geometry issue with a rear projection TV. I do believe, though, that the Sony's have a stiffer, more solid design then either the JVC or the Samsung. The JVCs that I had had numerous issues with spots on the lens and/or light tunnel, and one had a large yellow blemish develop the required replacement. My wife refused to let me exchange our last JVC for another one.

the burning plastic smell really freaked me out too, it went away after about a week and a half

Thats kinda what I figured. Thanks for letting me know you smelled it too.

As I created a thread on this. We are looking to access the mirrors and do a self adjustment. Does anyone have instructions on doing this? Thanks. Any help would be much appreciated. Waiting for Samsung to come out and read off instructions the same as i is jsut a waste of time.

Well as stated earlier in this thread my parents had just gotten the 50' about a week ago. We bring it home to find that it had an internal reflection on the bottom of the screen slighty to the right of the Samsung logo. It was very annoying once you noticed it because then you always tended to look for it in dark scenes. It was visible during normal viewing when a dark part was over that part of the screen. So we just decided to return the TV and get a replacement. I really didn't get to check for bowing on the first TV but sure enough the second one has it. Well, once I saw the bowing on the second I didn't even say a word. It isn't my TV and my parents are so happy with this TV and they don't even get HD hooked up till this Wed. It is more prevelant on their screen towards the middle. If they don't notice it and are happy then there is no reason for me to tell them. It would bug me. It is such a good looking TV. To bad this issue seems to really plague it. I'm gonna keep stopping by here though hoping to find a fix.

I noticed while watching King Kong last night that in dark scenes, the parts that are not in focus have a grainy look to it not a hi def look. Whats in focus looks great, but sometimes whats out of focus, it doesn't look blurry and actually looks...just grainy. Does anyone know what I am talking about. Is this something DLP's have?? Please any help.

I have learned to live with the geometry but is anyone having alot of loud popping coming form the tv? Sometimes it is so loud you can hear it all the way through the house.

No loud popping, but I do have an annoying buzz that comes from the back of the TV. It gets louder in Bright scenes and lower in dark scenes. Anyone have a clue.

This is my first post on AVS, but I have read every single message in this thread, as well as the messages in at least a dozen others. Yesterday was a really disappointing day for me. After staring at the floor model HL-T5076S at CC for about an hour yesterday, I convinced myself that its geometry was fine, and I should give it a shot. That was a bad decision. I brought a brand new set home, hooked up my cable box, and within the first 15 seconds I noticed that the geometry is terrible. The bottom of the menu is squeezed inward and all horizontal lines have a smile shape, just like others on this thread stated. I had my fiancee look, and it took her about 30 seconds to notice it, which is not very long. I can distort the geometry in all kinds of ways by playing with the case, but nothing fixes the squeeze at the bottom of the menu. Unless a fix is published in the next couple of days (I have seen the other thread hoping for a fix) this set is going back. I have two reasons for writing this post: (1) If you are thinking about buying one of these TV's, you have been warned, again. (2) If you have one of these TV's and you notice the poor geometry at all, don't settle for it. Its not paranoia, its a bad design. Return it, even if that means working through Samsung's customer service. This is not my first poor HDTV and it might not be my last poor HDTV, but I'm sticking this out until I find something that works right.

Oh, and since I'm the new guy, and a lot of you also spent your money on this TV, I do feel obligated to point out that other than the geometry, the picture quality is absolutely stunning and every feature I could ask for is present. If Samsung can manage to fix the geometry, this TV will be a real killer.

My parents just purchased this TV and we just got it set up. I have yet to check for bowing but did notice something else. I wanted to see if anyone on here could help me out. Put in a movie for them and it had black bars on top and bottom. In the bottom black bar a little to the right of the Samsung logo there is a mushroom shaped lighter area. This shape appears lighter than the rest of the black screen. I put on a blank input and it was noticable on that screen too, so it is not source material. It looks as though light is escaping this are more than the rest of the screen. The shape will get larger and smaller too but will not go away. Again, it looks as though more light is shining through. It is easiest to see when you are below the center of the screen. If you are above center it is not visible. This is a brand new TV and I'm dreading hauling it back to the store. Anyone have any ideas as to what this could be?

I had that same exact mushroom 'light shadow' on my DLP. To resolve this issue the tech took apart the DLP and carefully wiped everything clean. The 'light shadow' is just a spec of dust.

On a side note, to correct the bottom bowing, the tech adjusted 3 screws on upper rear of the TV cabinent. There are 6 screws total. There are adjustment screws for the lower right, lower middle, lower left plus lock screws for each adjustment screw. There are similar adjustment screws at the bottom rear for the upper screen.

I noticed while watching King Kong last night that in dark scenes, the parts that are not in focus have a grainy look to it not a hi def look. Whats in focus looks great, but sometimes whats out of focus, it doesn't look blurry and actually looks...just grainy. Does anyone know what I am talking about. Is this something DLP's have?? Please any help.

I have noticed the same graininess. It's especially frustrating because the HLS that I had had a crystal clear picture. ..I should have never exchanged it!

Does anyone know if there is a way to correct this graininess? The Samsung tech said the picture looks fine. How do you quantify a grainy picture so that Samsung can correct?

I noticed while watching King Kong last night that in dark scenes, the parts that are not in focus have a grainy look to it not a hi def look. Whats in focus looks great, but sometimes whats out of focus, it doesn't look blurry and actually looks...just grainy. Does anyone know what I am talking about. Is this something DLP's have?? Please any help.


Is Kong the only movie you noticed this with? I have a feeling the grain is an intentional decision on the part of film makers to give a particular look to the film.

After watching my 5676S yesterday for several hours throughout the day I developed a really nasty headache. Could this be cause by the color wheel in the same way that I see rainbows, or could it be that the TV is too bright? I had the brightness and contrast turned way down to reduce the rainbows that I was seeing, but I still felt my eyes strain and still ended up with a headache at the end of the day.

I've read in other places that for some people it takes awhile to become adjusted to DLPs in general, at least for some people. With time will my eyes adjust to the point that I can watch a whole movie without wanting to tear them out?

On a side note, to correct the bottom bowing, the tech adjusted 3 screws on upper rear of the TV cabinent. There are 6 screws total. There are adjustment screws for the lower right, lower middle, lower left plus lock screws for each adjustment screw. There are similar adjustment screws at the bottom rear for the upper screen.


What about the middle part of the screen? Or does the combination of the top and bottom affect the middle? Is your perfect now that the tech cme out?

Guys, I also have a good buzzing coming from the back of the TV. It gets louder when the screen gets brighter. Has anyone else had this, and do you think it is the bulb or the color wheel?

Is Kong the only movie you noticed this with? I have a feeling the grain is an intentional decision on the part of film makers to give a particular look to the film.

It must be something with the way the movie is made b/c my games don't have it, some dark scenes don't have it and others do. But no bright scenes have it.

Wow I was thinking about getting this set for a replacement to my Mitsubishi 57732 that was bought back.

All of these issues are making me second guess my decision.

My local store is out of them and is expecting a shipment in soon...I would hope Samsung would have this thing worked out before they send out the new batches.

I looked at the LED models but they lacked the pop the lamp set's had and the viewing angles on them were terrible.

Should I hold out and just get last years model?

Should I hold out and just get last years model?

I was thinking the same thing at the time, but I went with the better looking cabinet and the newer technology. The Hl-T's have 3 hdmi's instead of 2. They have the 3D tech, but who knows when and if we will use it. It has a higher refresh rate, and an added color to the color wheel. The HL-S's have there share of problems too. I've looked over the thread and they had bowing issues as welll, amonst other issues. We will hopefully fix this geometry issue soon.

I had that same exact mushroom 'light shadow' on my DLP. To resolve this issue the tech took apart the DLP and carefully wiped everything clean. The 'light shadow' is just a spec of dust.

On a side note, to correct the bottom bowing, the tech adjusted 3 screws on upper rear of the TV cabinent. There are 6 screws total. There are adjustment screws for the lower right, lower middle, lower left plus lock screws for each adjustment screw. There are similar adjustment screws at the bottom rear for the upper screen.

Well, my parents decided to take back the first set rather than try to get service tech out. I'm kinda pissed that I didn't check the first one for any bowing. If I would have known that light was only dirt and the TV had no bowing I would have told them to keep the first.

That being said, the second one that we got doesn't show any light marks from dust but does have some bowing. They probably won't even know. They are just happy to have a big TV and I can only imagine how happy they will be when HD gets hooked up this week.

I am very interested in the adjusting screws you mentioned though? Do they seem to tighten the screen or pull it so that it would get rid of the sag or bulge that seems to cause the bowing? I would still like to fix the problem for them it I can.

Can someone please post some pictures or direction on those adjustment screws, it would certainly help a lot of people.

Eliab, I would think you'd have that info.

So i setup the tv and WOW this thing sure does look better in a home than a showroom floor.

first thing I did was run a few tests. First to see how much of the screen the 76s will actually display and to my delight it would appear roughly 98% of the image on any source will be shown WOW i thought maybe a small overscan would be there but nope over 95% of the screen is easily shown. next test was for bowing nope no bowing at all next was verticle accuracy sweet just perfect. happily i then did a test with horizontal lines ... well here in is where my issue is. though extremly slight there appears to be an issue with the lines as they reach the right portion of the screen, they curve up though between a straight line and the edge of the tv the lift is about half an inch difference and the issue starts about 4 inches from the edge of the screen. I am going to likely take this one back and get another before I start with samsung tech other than that this tv is insane on a ps3 and aside from the horizontal issue which is barely noticable this has to be one of the best tv's I have seen in a home ever and the turn on/off chime is cooler than the older ones.

Tested visuals with Pirates of the Caribbean 1-2 on bluray so far and looks rediculously awesome in 1080p.

Tested game mode with Ninja Gaiden Sigma and Super Stardust HD - HDMI 1080p - makes other games, in terms of details, look like pong.

I was thinking the same thing at the time, but I went with the better looking cabinet and the newer technology. The Hl-T's have 3 hdmi's instead of 2. They have the 3D tech, but who knows when and if we will use it. It has a higher refresh rate, and an added color to the color wheel. The HL-S's have there share of problems too. I've looked over the thread and they had bowing issues as welll, amonst other issues. We will hopefully fix this geometry issue soon.

True...I have a HLT5676" on order I guess I can always return it if it has a lot of the problems that are going on here.

The store manager told me that they are still waiting for the shipment from Samsung. He said usually they are quick on getting them out...maybe they are trying to fix this problem before they send anymore set's out.

Of course that probably is wishful thinking.

True...I have a HLT5676" on order I guess I can always return it if it has a lot of the problems that are going on here.

The store manager told me that they are still waiting for the shipment from Samsung. He said usually they are quick on getting them out...maybe they are trying to fix this problem before they send anymore set's out.

Of course that probably is wishful thinking.

Wishful thinking it is. I would not bring the TV back if you are going to get the same TV. If everything else is working correctly, tkae this advice...keep it! I sent 2 other back and the first one was better than the rest. Deal with Samsung.

Is this something DLP's have?? Please any help.It's probably a calibration issue. What DVD player do you have and how is it connected?

I talked to Samsung and I had them describe to me the type of fix they will be peforming on DERG's TV, and mine later this week, if I don't do it myself.

It would be good if someone can try this. The tech described that the tech will come out and loosen the screws on the back of the TV and then push the top of the TV around until the screen realigns the way it should be. She did not specify which screws these are. I am assuming it has to be the side screws, not the top screws, b/c i believe they are for the mirror. They said it works and that they have contacted the service centers regarding it. So this is the second confirmation regarding this. We will have to wait and see, unless someone trys.

VERY interesting do you have her name????????????????????????????? and what should we ask for?????????????????????????????????????

This is my first post on AVS, but I have read every single message in this thread, as well as the messages in at least a dozen others. Yesterday was a really disappointing day for me. After staring at the floor model HL-T5076S at CC for about an hour yesterday, I convinced myself that its geometry was fine, and I should give it a shot. That was a bad decision. I brought a brand new set home, hooked up my cable box, and within the first 15 seconds I noticed that the geometry is terrible. The bottom of the menu is squeezed inward and all horizontal lines have a smile shape, just like others on this thread stated. I had my fiancee look, and it took her about 30 seconds to notice it, which is not very long. I can distort the geometry in all kinds of ways by playing with the case, but nothing fixes the squeeze at the bottom of the menu. Unless a fix is published in the next couple of days (I have seen the other thread hoping for a fix) this set is going back. I have two reasons for writing this post: (1) If you are thinking about buying one of these TV's, you have been warned, again. (2) If you have one of these TV's and you notice the poor geometry at all, don't settle for it. Its not paranoia, its a bad design. Return it, even if that means working through Samsung's customer service. This is not my first poor HDTV and it might not be my last poor HDTV, but I'm sticking this out until I find something that works right.

Oh, and since I'm the new guy, and a lot of you also spent your money on this TV, I do feel obligated to point out that other than the geometry, the picture quality is absolutely stunning and every feature I could ask for is present. If Samsung can manage to fix the geometry, this TV will be a real killer.
Welcome to the forum and thanks for that review. I was very much also interested in this TV (or at least a Samsung DLP w/ HDMI 1.3; the HL-Txx89S is too pricey for me). I'm now having 2nd thoughts.

However, from what Muffdiever just posted above, maybe there is some hope. I'll wait out this month and see how the fix shakes out before I buy a TV in Aug. :) Good luck to all of you who have this Samsung TV.

VERY interesting do you have her name????????????????????????????? and what should we ask for?????????????????????????????????????

No, no name. All I said was that I had that buzzing in the back of the TV as well as a bowing problem, where it sloped upwards on the horizontal lines. They then transferred me to another support group that said they have a fix for it and the tech that comes to your house will know what to do. I then responded about if this was recent, b/c i had a tech come out and just do tilt adjustments to try and fix it, and it didn't. So I asked her to describe the fix to me, which I posted above.

Have not tried to cal using CCA yet. Only user menu.

Started with Eliab’s recommendations for the LEDs and tweaked with Getgray and DVE

Movie mode
Contrast 70
brightness 45
color 45
tint 50-50
DNR off dynamic contrast, bright off
gamma 0
all other settings off or neutral

I used my I1pro spectro w/Calman and HCFR to determine detailed setting user White balance of -4 is closest to D65 with pretty flat grayscale (HCFR Delta E of 2-5), Gamma a little high at 2.78 average. I have not measured the other user gamma settings yet. CIE with sRGB option primaries are close except green, secondaries off quite a bit, I turned service menu gamma to 0, Played with sharpness in the esp menu a little but found sharp filter off too soft. Hope this helps.

Alvin

I just got back from best buy today where they had the 50-56-6176 models and I noticed bowing on all the models EXCEPT the 6176. This of course could be just by chance but has anybody else had the bowing issue with the 61 inch model? the 56 inch had obvious bowing in a downward motion throughout the screen. the 50 inch was a little odd, it only had bowing in a downward motion in the bottom right corner. it does seem that it would be fixable in my opinion. I am no expert on how DLP works, but I would imagine it works with the idea of having the lamp reflect light off of mirrors and creating colors from the refraction of the light. The colors are not distorted in this bowing, but somewhere along the line the light is coming off the mirrors wrong so it seems reasonable to believe that the entire grouping of mirrors(however they are set up within the TV), is completely shifted. I think of the idea of when you project an image on a wall and then tilt it more and the image bows and becomes distorted(especially off of a mirror). However, I viewed the 50 inch bowing in one corner only which would lead me to believe that it would have to deal with an individual mirror. Like I said, I am definitely no expert on DLP, nor do I work for Texas Instruments, plus there are millions of these mirrors so its boggling to think about.

Like I said, I am definitely no expert on DLP, nor do I work for Texas Instruments, plus there are millions of these mirrors so its boggling to think about.

The mirrors we speak of are not the tiny mirrored chip, it's actual mirrors that reflect the image on the screen. I have heard of someone else with the 6176 with the problem and another with the 6176 who said he has no problems. It seems more prevalent in the below 61's, but a 61 is just too big for my room. The screen could be not positioned correctly on one side and not the other. We will find out from DERG on thursday.

The mirrors we speak of are not the tiny mirrored chip, it's actual mirrors that reflect the image on the screen. I have heard of someone else with the 6176 with the problem and another with the 6176 who said he has no problems. It seems more prevalent in the below 61's, but a 61 is just too big for my room. The screen could be not positioned correctly on one side and not the other. We will find out from DERG on thrursday.

So is the light being projected through the chip and then hitting a larger mirror to bring it up onto a screen? If that would be the case then it would make more sense that the deflecting mirrors be out of alignment. I don't know why it would be less prevalent on the smaller screen...maybe just random coincidence sense most people buy the smaller screens.

Have not tried to cal using CCA yet. Only user menu.

Started with Eliab’s recommendations for the LEDs and tweaked with Getgray and DVE

Movie mode
Contrast 70
brightness 45
color 45
tint 50-50
DNR off dynamic contrast, bright off
gamma 0
all other settings off or neutral

I used my I1pro spectro w/Calman and HCFR to determine detailed setting user White balance of -4 is closest to D65 with pretty flat grayscale (HCFR Delta E of 2-5), Gamma a little high at 2.78 average. I have not measured the other user gamma settings yet. CIE with sRGB option primaries are close except green, secondaries off quite a bit, I turned service menu gamma to 0, Played with sharpness in the esp menu a little but found sharp filter off too soft. Hope this helps.

Alvin


please give us you complete settings to include gamma and white balance and black levels - basically every setting

mine is a 6176S with a slight bowing

So is the light being projected through the chip and then hitting a larger mirror to bring it up onto a screen?The light is reflected off of the chip, and then the image being created by the chip is pasted through a series of mirrors to enlarge it enough to fill the screen. ;)

The last and largest mirror is the one that seems to be adjustable. In the past with thicker cases that mirror was flat. Now it seems to be concave which makes everything more complicated.

If anything, the larger the screen, the more difficult it should be to get a "good" image to the screen from such a short distance. Of course the case gets slightly deeper as the screen size increases.

Got the 61" last week and I have no noticeable bowing. As far as grainy blacks, I'm guessing it has to do with the source material. I played the Original Godzilla (Gojira) in B&W upscaled to 1080P over HDMI and got nothing but pure black (and the associated scratches off of the print) :D

Anyway, The TV is an absolute joy... my first Big screen and HD. I'm also a fan of the on/off chime. It kind of reminds me of the coin sound that was made in Super Mario Brothers.

Got the 61" last week and I have no noticeable bowing. As far as grainy blacks, I'm guessing it has to do with the source material. I played the Original Godzilla (Gojira) in B&W upscaled to 1080P over HDMI and got nothing but pure black (and the associated scratches off of the print) :D

Anyway, The TV is an absolute joy... my first Big screen and HD. I'm also a fan of the on/off chime. It kind of reminds me of the coin sound that was made in Super Mario Brothers.

That's exactly what it sounds like. I have expect to see a little mario jumping up and hitting a block on the screen.

Hey guys I was wondering.....say all does not go well with this latest DLP model.

Is there any other type of tv that looks JUST AS GOOD or BETTER than the samsung DLPs?

I purchased my HL-T5076S about a month ago and, while I noticed some "bending" as my wife calls it, I didn't think TOO hard about it as I had to still paint and complete the basement and became otherwise preoccupied. Now, exactly 30 days later, we're loading it back into the truck and once I get home from work, driving over to CC to basically tell them, "thanks, but not thanks". Why? Well, I had a technician come out after calling Samsung last week. He looked at it and said that while he couldn't fix the bowing problem, he could call another engineer out to "dig deeper" and see if they couldn't fix it. By "dig deeper" I believe he meant repositioning the mirrors. And then, in a wink-wink-nudge-nudge motion, basically said "if I were you, I'd return this and get yourself an 89".

So, there ya have it. I just can't believe Samsung would put customers through so much drama over this stupid bowing problem. Didn't they QC this stuff? Otherwise, we absolutely love the set, but c'mon, this thing cost me good money, and I can't sit through watching letterbox stuff and say "gee, what a great picture EXCEPT for that weird bending! It totally makes the $2000 ALMOST worth it!" and not feel bad.

just my .02 cents.

The 89's do this too - it is an effect of the thinner RPTV's

Sorry

so check it out the issue has to be with the the mirror or with the screen. Either way it is something that can be fixed either by replacing the mirror or the screen. when I pushed on my screen from the front it bent the picture but the lines were straight so in theory if the screen is warped get a new screen. if the screen is fine get a new mirror but a tech would have to determine which is causing the error. I think this is a shipping/handling issue

please give us you complete settings to include gamma and white balance and black levels - basically every setting

Those are all of the final settings that I gave. Everything else in the picture menu is 0 (including gamma), normal, off, etc. Only white balance is -4. Please keep in mind this is for my set, HDMI, OPPO 970 (1080i). YMMV

Alvin

So, there ya have it. I just can't believe Samsung would put customers through so much drama over this stupid bowing problem. Didn't they QC this stuff? Otherwise, we absolutely love the set, but c'mon, this thing cost me good money, and I can't sit through watching letterbox stuff and say "gee, what a great picture EXCEPT for that weird bending! It totally makes the $2000 ALMOST worth it!" and not feel bad.

just my .02 cents.

$2000? I got the 5676S for $1799. Bring that back and make up some of the aggravation by getting the 56" for 2 hundred cheaper. #1 you will have a bigger TV, #2 It might not have the problem. CC is the place to haggle.

so check it out the issue has to be with the the mirror or with the screen. Either way it is something that can be fixed either by replacing the mirror or the screen. when I pushed on my screen from the front it bent the picture but the lines were straight so in theory if the screen is warped get a new screen. if the screen is fine get a new mirror but a tech would have to determine which is causing the error. I think this is a shipping/handling issue

I just ended up screwing with the mirror adjustments. What those screws on the upper back of the TV do is 1 loosens the mirror, while the other flathead screw adjusts. The adjustment basically adjusts the bottom 1.2 of the screens horizontal lines. It wither moves them up, or moves them down. It does not take any curl or bow out of the line. This will only help if your menu bar is higher on one side than it is on the other. But remember that could also be a screen problem.

If you go to the service menu (Mute 1-8-2 then power) then select the second option, and then scroll down to "test pattern", you can bring up the grid lines by pressing to the right. This will help you adjsut a bit.

i still think they should allow full geometry controls in the service menu like old computer crts used to do

i still think they should allow full geometry controls in the service menu like old computer crts used to doUnfortunately your TV doesn't use an electron beam, and magnets to create an image on a phosphor coated cathode ray tube. ;)

The last and largest mirror is the one that seems to be adjustable. In the past with thicker cases that mirror was flat. Now it seems to be concave which makes everything more complicated.
The top mirror is 1/3 the size and is actually flat and replaces the back mirror on other DLP models. There is however, a wicked complex curved small mirror at the exit of the light engine that reflects the image toward the top mirror.

The top mirror is 1/3 the size and is actually flat and replaces the back mirror on other DLP models. There is however, a wicked complex curved small mirror at the exit of the light engine that reflects the image toward the top mirror.

Is it safe to assume that this "wicked curved" mirror is the one causing the most trouble.

I too adjusted the slotted screws in the top rear of my case after loosening the four philips screws holding the mirror in place. While it felt good thinking that I might adjust the geometry issue myself, it turns out I did pretty much nothing.

The top mirror is 1/3 the size and is actually flat and replaces the back mirror on other DLP models. There is however, a wicked complex curved small mirror at the exit of the light engine that reflects the image toward the top mirror.Thanks for the details. I knew there might be a curve in there somewhere. Where are lasers when you need them? ;)

Is it safe to assume that this "wicked curved" mirror is the one causing the most trouble.
No, the trouble is caused by the screen bulging outwards in the center.

Is it safe to assume that this "wicked curved" mirror is the one causing the most trouble.

I too adjusted the slotted screws in the top rear of my case after loosening the four philips screws holding the mirror in place. While it felt good thinking that I might adjust the geometry issue myself, it turns out I did pretty much nothing.

Where are these 4 philips screws? There is 1 in the upper left on the back of the TV, and 1 on the upper right on the back of the TV. Each 1 of these has it's own Cam screw. Where are the other 2?

$2000? I got the 5676S for $1799. Bring that back and make up some of the aggravation by getting the 56" for 2 hundred cheaper. #1 you will have a bigger TV, #2 It might not have the problem. CC is the place to haggle.

well, don't forget the sales tax I also had to pay.

Anyway, so went back to CC last night on what was exactly the 30th day so as to be eligible for a complete refund/exchange.

The manager at CC was super helpful and insisted that we perhaps look around should we see something else that we like. Thanks to these forums as well as two cousins who own Sony's, I was able to, with little hesitation, go straight for a new KDS55A2020 HD SXRD.

My wife and I are MUCH happier with this set than with our previous HL-T5076S. HD channels "fill" the screen much better than the 76 and has a better vibrance that the previous set. And this with factory settings!

I feel bad about having had to do what I did, given all the current owners of the Sammy '76, and I do hope the bowing stuff gets sorted out, but with my in-laws coming to live with us for a few months soon, I had to make haste and needed to go with what works - and works WELL I might had!

Hope this helps!

Where are these 4 philips screws? There is 1 in the upper left on the back of the TV, and 1 on the upper right on the back of the TV. Each 1 of these has it's own Cam screw. Where are the other 2?
There are 4 black screws on an aluminum bar across the top of the back. Loosen all four about one turn and then turn each larger cam screw while watching the lower corner of the screen.

well, don't forget the sales tax I also had to pay.

Anyway, so went back to CC last night on what was exactly the 30th day so as to be eligible for a complete refund/exchange.

The manager at CC was super helpful and insisted that we perhaps look around should we see something else that we like. Thanks to these forums as well as two cousins who own Sony's, I was able to, with little hesitation, go straight for a new KDS55A2020 HD SXRD.

My wife and I are MUCH happier with this set than with our previous HL-T5076S. HD channels "fill" the screen much better than the 76 and has a better vibrance that the previous set. And this with factory settings!

I feel bad about having had to do what I did, given all the current owners of the Sammy '76, and I do hope the bowing stuff gets sorted out, but with my in-laws coming to live with us for a few months soon, I had to make haste and needed to go with what works - and works WELL I might had!

Hope this helps!

BOOO!..but you got to do what you got to do. I defintely don't think the Sony looks better than the Hl-t after looknig at both. The Hl-T's colors just "pop" a lot better. But to each his own. Hope you enjoy

There are 4 black screws on an aluminum bar across the top of the back. Loosen all four about one turn and then turn each larger cam screw while watching the lower corner of the screen.

You have the 61, 56, or 50? My 56 has little slots at the top of the back. Inside the slots you see an aluminum bar. There are only 2 slots totalling 4 screws. Unless we have to take the back panel off to see the other screws, I don't see them. Do you have a pic?

BOOO!..but you got to do what you got to do. I defintely don't think the Sony looks better than the Hl-t after looknig at both. The Hl-T's colors just "pop" a lot better. But to each his own. Hope you enjoy

I thought the same thing when i compared the sony and the sammy. The hl-t was much better. They had them side by side and the guy even plugged in the same source for me. The sammy was way better (IMO) :eek:

one thing to keep in mind in the stores is the sources. the Sony demo disk was simply awesome. The Sammy demo was not so good. I told the guy I wanted a Blue ray player with the same disk in for both TV. Once we did that, the sony was not even close to the Sammy.

Those are all of the final settings that I gave. Everything else in the picture menu is 0 (including gamma), normal, off, etc. Only white balance is -4. Please keep in mind this is for my set, HDMI, OPPO 970 (1080i). YMMV

Alvin

Thanks :)

are you signaling srgb or normal?

are you signaling srgb or normal?

sRGB. I have not measured normal yet. But the sRGB primaries are pretty close to REC. 709 (HD).

Thanks!

You have the 61, 56, or 50? My 56 has little slots at the top of the back. Inside the slots you see an aluminum bar. There are only 2 slots totalling 4 screws. Unless we have to take the back panel off to see the other screws, I don't see them. Do you have a pic?
I have a 56", there's two more screws about 8 inches toward the center from the outer screw & cam pairs. Total of 4 phillips screws and 2 slotted cam bolts.

I thought the same thing when i compared the sony and the sammy. The hl-t was much better. They had them side by side and the guy even plugged in the same source for me. The sammy was way better (IMO) :eek:

one thing to keep in mind in the stores is the sources. the Sony demo disk was simply awesome. The Sammy demo was not so good. I told the guy I wanted a Blue ray player with the same disk in for both TV. Once we did that, the sony was not even close to the Sammy.

I compared both with the same source at a local BB and IMHO both were neck and neck. CNET seemed to agree at least with last years model where Samsung got a 7.6 and Sony had an 8.0. IMHO Sony seemed to beat Samsung out in SD picture quality HD picture quality seems even. At least the Sony does not have the major bowing issues the Samsung has started to experience, plus no rainbow effect, no fake 1080P aka wobulation to name just a few perks the Sony has over the Samsung. I was all set to buy a Samsung but the facts are they have droped the ball bigtime with the thinner cases. No sense in have a great although warped picture. I went with Sony myself due to these reasons TV should arrive SAT.

I bought my HL-T5676S at CC and I have the bowing problem. Who I need to call to get this fixed? CC or Sammy?

I'm thinking of getting a 6176S, do you guys think should I get the 6187S (LED) instead because of the bowing problem? I don't think the LED sets have the bowing issue, do they?

I'm thinking of getting a 6176S, do you guys think should I get the 6187S (LED) instead because of the bowing problem? I don't think the LED sets have the bowing issue, do they?

Both have Bowing problems as discussed earlier in the thread.

I have a 56", there's two more screws about 8 inches toward the center from the outer screw & cam pairs. Total of 4 phillips screws and 2 slotted cam bolts.

I see. When I adjusted the Cams the other day I only lossened the two outside philips, not the insides. It was hard to turn the Cam screws but I still adjusted.

Do you think that it was adjusted correctly due to me doing this. Could it have held back the adjustment of the middle part of the screen? damn it.

I see. When I adjusted the Cams the other day I only lossened the two outside philips, not the insides. It was hard to turn the Cam screws but I still adjusted.

Do you think that it was adjusted correctly due to me doing this. Could it have held back the adjustment of the middle part of the screen? damn it.
The four screws fasten the rear frame of the mirror to the case. If all four are not loosened, you would curve the rear sdge of the mirror a bit.

I'm thinking of getting a 6176S, do you guys think should I get the 6187S (LED) instead because of the bowing problem? I don't think the LED sets have the bowing issue, do they?
I do not consider the bowing a real problem. You only know it's there if you have some kind of grid lines on the screen like a program guide. I can not see it at any other time. The picture quality and the nicer case make me very happy with this TV.

I do not consider the bowing a real problem. You only know it's there if you have some kind of grid lines on the screen like a program guide. I can not see it at any other time. The picture quality and the nicer case make me very happy with this TV.



...or anything letterbox, or ...


again, and i'm by no means a perfectionist, but when I plunk down $2000 (inc. tax) for a television, I don't thing son the screen "bulging" because someone at Samsung R&D got lazy and decided to pass a quality test because he had to get home early that day.

so what are you doing with your set?

so my curve issue seems to be fixing itself... wierd... the first time I turned it on it was pretty easy to see but now even with straight lines it seems to have relaxed somewhat and is only noticable if you have a really high contrast image and even then it takes some coaching for someone to see it

Both have Bowing problems as discussed earlier in the thread.
Do you mean the 6176S and the 6187S, or just the xx76S series?

Do you mean the 6176S and the 6187S, or just the xx76S series?


Both the Lamp version and LED version. This includes the 720p and 1080p models.

just got off the phone with samsung and they are sending me another 5076 to replace the one i have...hopefully i get lucky and this new one works out

just got off the phone with samsung and they are sending me another 5076 to replace the one i have...hopefully i get lucky and this new one works out

When and where did you get your Sammy? Are you still within your exchange period?

Alvin

just got off the phone with samsung and they are sending me another 5076 to replace the one i have...hopefully i get lucky and this new one works out

I'm sorry to hear that. Hopefully they will send you one that does not have this problem, even though I think this problem is a high majority. Let me know how it goes. I have a tech coming out this Saturday. I will ask for the same if they can't fix it.

My 5676 should be delivered Saturday. Keep your fingers crossed that it's o.k.

If not you can guarantee I'll be sending it back.

I do not consider the bowing a real problem. You only know it's there if you have some kind of grid lines on the screen like a program guide. I can not see it at any other time. The picture quality and the nicer case make me very happy with this TV.

it is very noticeable and annoying if you have a scroll at the bottom of a screen on ESPN or any other network. I was seen a couple sets at best buy that were running the letters scrolling across off the bottom of the screen.

alwilli.....this will actually be my third samsung dlp...i originally had a hls5087 but the light engine failed so they sent me a hlt5076 to replace it and now i am replacing the 5076 with another 5076 from samsung....hopefully third time is the charm...if the new replacement is bad i think i am just going to argue for a refund

alwilli.....this will actually be my third samsung dlp...i originally had a hls5087 but the light engine failed so they sent me a hlt5076 to replace it and now i am replacing the 5076 with another 5076 from samsung....hopefully third time is the charm...if the new replacement is bad i think i am just going to argue for a refund

Besides the bowing issue, how would you compare the PQ between the HLS5087 and the HLT?

In my opinion the HLS was better..

i would say they are about the same

Samsung has released the Hl-TXX56W series. If this has been out, I have not been aware of it. It's the HL-T with the old style cabinet. I believe it might be the the 2007 model of the HL-S. Only has 2 HDMI's compared to the 3. All plug in locations are on the back.

This might be the best way to get a cheaper TV with less problems and the latest firmware.

Sorry folks but I jumped ship to Sony KDS62020A. Could not feel comfortable with the Samsung builds anymore.

Sorry folks but I jumped ship to Sony KDS62020A. Could not feel comfortable with the Samsung builds anymore.


How do you like it compared to the HL-T??

Do you call Samsung or the place you bought the TV from about the bowing problem?

Do you call Samsung or the place you bought the TV from about the bowing problem?

You would call Samsung unless you want to try to exchange it through the vendor.

Thanks

How do you like it compared to the HL-T??

Hi folks. Just wanted to share with you my story.

I started monitoring this forum on Sunday night. We had just received our HL-T5076S that morning. The picture was stunning! However, as we all know, horizontal lines bow. At first, it didn't bother me. My kids didn't care either. I started thinking about the $$ vs quality and continued to monitor your posts. On Tuesday, I called Samsung support. I explained the bowing and paraphrased some of what I had read from this forum. I asked if Samsung was aware of this problem, and the person taking my call said 'yes'. I asked if Samsung had a fix, and the response was that 'the technicians were looking at it'. I asked about having a tech come over, and could not get a commitment. Said a tech would call me within 48hrs. I asked if I could talk to a tech and was willing to stay on hold. The response I received was cold to say the least.

That night I watched the baseball all star game with my kids. It felt like I was looking through a window at the ballpark (beautiful colors and resolution), but the ticker at the bottom curled up on both sides. My angst started to increase, and when I displayed the menu guide I felt like the TV was smiling at me. I don't want my TV smiling at me.... I showed my wife that by barely touching the sides and top you can alter the picture. We're both engineers and looked at each other thinking this is a huge quality issue - what else could go wrong long term. IMHO Samung should fix this problem and recall all of it's T models, but that's just MO.

I did a bit more research at BB (where I bought the TV, and they too knew of the problem) and Frys - the a2020 price dropped to $1449. I went back to BB yesterday, gave them my 5076s, and had them honor the Frys a2020 price. The Sony was delivered this morning. I'll get it hooked up tonight and let you all know what I think of the PQ differences.

Ciao!

Like many, I received my Hl-t6176S and was saddened to see a great big smile on the screen due to the bowing. I couldn't believe how much it bowed. About an inch on both sides.

I've tried everything you can think of to fix it from adjusting the mirror (only does the bottom of the screen), I lossened the screws that hold the frame together and twisted it a bit, nothing works. It really is the screen bending outwards right at the point you see the bowing and subsequently I don't see how it can be fixed. It's just a plain ole crappy design by Samsung. The whole case is a flimsy piece of junk.

In addition to the bowing the entire image is tilted to the right. To fix that I put a coaster under the right side of the set and that mostly fixed it. Good God!

My 30-day return window expires in about 3 weeks and I will be returning to Amazon and getting the new Sony KDS-60A3000 instead when it ships in August.

I'm done with Samsung, I had a Hl-S5687W that crapped out and Samsung refunded my money after numerous calls and I'd figure I'd give them another shot, big mistake.

To anyone considering a new 2007 Samsung my advice is to run the other way unless you like a crooked picture.

Hi everyone...new potential member to this forum. I haven't read through all the posts on here, but enough to both be glad at the possibility of getting the TV, but also worried. Here's my situation -

- My third HL-S TV has just failed. The first had issues with excessive SSE (the coating was uneven). The second had a button break on the front, and the technician damaged the screen when fixing it. The third just had the light engine replaced, and after two visits continues to shut off after it warms up...and it isn't the little safety switch behind the lamp cover.

- I got off the phone with Samsung ECR this morning and they have offered to exchange for a HL-T6176. My current TV is a HL-S6188. Here are my concerns...please chime in with any answers you may have -

- I'm not too worried about losing the CableCARD slot, in exchange for a third HDMI slot. What about the QAM tuner though? I read that these TVs do have it but I want to make sure. Also, what about Picture-in-Picture?

- One of the big bonuses on having the 88 vs the HL-SXX87 was that overscan could be turned off...there was often too much overscan on the XX87 line. What is the overscan on these TVs. For my 88 I turned it off in the service menu. There was a rumor that you can turn it off in the User Menu now. Is this true and does anyone have issues with logos or tickers being cut off on the bottom or top? This and having 1:1 mapping are important to me. I sure hope the xx89s aren't the only ones to have this, like last year's 88s were.

- The bowing issue concerns me. My TV has the dreaded pincushioning making watching 4:3 material annoying. It seems to be a different issue now though. I'm surprised this wasn't fixed with all the complaints last year.

- What other common failures are showing up on these TVs? For last year it was pincushioning, power supply noise, light tunnel collapse, lamp cover switch issues, popping and crackling sounds from expanding/contracting plastic, light/dark spots showing up on the screen...and some others I can't remember.

Thanks for the advice. I just want to know what to expect. My friends already make fun of me for all the issues my Samsgung TVs have had and I'd like for this frustration to stop.

Samsung has released the Hl-TXX56W series. If this has been out, I have not been aware of it. It's the HL-T with the old style cabinet. I believe it might be the the 2007 model of the HL-S. Only has 2 HDMI's compared to the 3. All plug in locations are on the back.

This might be the best way to get a cheaper TV with less problems and the latest firmware.

Has anyone looked at a 56W series set yet? I saw the 61" and 67" models at Costco, but they aren't hooked up so there's no way to look at the picture. I haven't seen them in any other stores yet.

Trading 1 HDMI input for a sturdier cabinet with no image bowing sounds like a good tradeoff to me.

@mikeynavy1

As far as maping it appears that the 76s with its smaller edge retains much of the screen though I am sure it isn't 1:1 it is insanely close without turning off overscanning which is an issue to me as well but with an image I have it would appear that at the very least 98% of the screen is shown and I have tested it to be well over 95% shown none of the tickers are cut no logos are hiding and no text is missing at all

OniMirage...that's good news then. Now I just have to get Samsung ECR back on the line to arrange the exchange...hopefully it doesn't take long for delivery. I'm also going to ask, however, about the cost to upgrade to the 89...I don't think it's really worth it for the 87...same TV as the 76 I believe except for the LED vs lamp issue. Does the 76 use the same lamp as last year's model? If not, I'll have to sell my spare on ebay...haha.

Are the only differences between the xx76 and xx89 the light source, Internet/wireless capability, and Pic-in-Pic?

Now the TV is just turning itself off randomly and coming back on. Then it just goes dark and the 3 lights of death start flashing. Bye Bye Samsung I wish I could say it's been nice.

After getting pissed at my TV...even though the tech is coming tomorrow. I decided to do some stuff myself. I played with the mirror adjustments in the back of the TV to try and make a perfectly even bottom. I can get the left and right sides to be equal, but the middle is always a bit higher. (about a 1/8")

But after loosening all 4 philips screws, and pushing up and down on the top of the TV..over and over again from left to right, I adjusted again, tightened all the screws back up, and turned the TV off. When I turned it back on, my sloped edges were almost gone. I have exactly a 5 1/2" measurement from the top of the menu bar to the bottom of the screen on both the left and right sides. The eges still slope up , but you can only tell with a well trained eye.

It's a lot better than before, almost not annoying, but now I have the tech coming tomm. I will make sure he doesn't screw it up. I am still angry that it is not a perfectly straight bottom horizontal line. My middle pushes upwards instead of how it use to sag....Damn flimsy cabinet....but beautiful picure/

If any kind of solution can be had for the swarm of users with these problems, please let us know. It's a shame such a wonderful set is ruined unnecessarily like this.

Now the TV is just turning itself off randomly and coming back on. Then it just goes dark and the 3 lights of death start flashing. Bye Bye Samsung I wish I could say it's been nice.

I like that..."3 lights of death" That's what I have right now, and why I'll be switching the 6176...though now you ruined my hopes. I don't think the techs know what causes it either. On the HLS I've tried removing and reinserting the lamp, taping the little safety switch down, and even pointing a large fan at the TV to see if it was a cooling issue. Nothing worked. I'm wishing now I could just get a refund and go with another brand, but I've had my TV too long and don't see that happening:(

I bought the ps3 today at CC and saw the HLt6176s on display and I must say every time I see it on display it looooks soooooo sick!!!! And it makes me so angry to come here and read from I am reading in this thread.

Its like this hidden devil that doesnt come out till you come home and setup....and when you do.....BAM smiling you right in your face.

Very disappointing. If worse comes to worse....

The Sharp aquos had a very nice picture that stood out to me like the sammy DLPs....that might be my next option....

Since I hear the sony a2020 has terrible VGA input....and I need a good VGA since I will be hooking my alienware up to the tv.

Since I hear the sony a2020 has terrible VGA input....and I need a good VGA since I will be hooking my alienware up to the tv.

Have you considered getting a DVI to HDMI hook up that would solve the VGA problem...

If you look closely at the screen from the side of the TV, can you notice any anomalies of the flatness of screen itself that would indicate that it has a bowing issue? I only ask because I'd like to have an easy to way to determine if I have this issue when the delivery people come. If the issue is noticeable without even turning the TV on (I doubt the delivery men would wait for me to hook up the TV) then I can have them take the set back as soon as they take it out of the box (if necessary).

Tech came this morning. Didn't do any adjustment of the screen for the smiley face like Customer Service said. He took pictures of everything and was going to meet with engineers to discuss this problem this week.

He expressed that Samsung needs to figure this out b/c this is going to be a reoccuring issue. He said "If people don't see this, it's just b/c they are just unable to notice it." He expressed that it is a problem due to it's flimsy screen and flimsy cabinet combination. I'm pretty annoyed at this and expressed to him that this is my 3rd TV and I am not bringing it back to the store. Either replace it, or fix it. If the problem still is occuring by the end of the 30 day bring back, I am bringing it back and will just have no tV....I'm just at that point until I find something worth purchasing.

He also ordered me a light engine, due to the buzzing noise.

The Sharp aquos had a very nice picture that stood out to me like the sammy DLPs....that might be my next option....Be sure to read the relevant owner's threads first. ;)

Has anyone developed baseline video settings for the HTL-5076s tv? I want to get the set close before running one of the tunning dvd's on it. Please post your settings if you have already configured your picture.

Thanks!

Thanks, Muff. That's disappointing, but perhaps it means a fix is eventually coming.

I was at Best Buy and took a look at their TVs, including the xx87 and xx76. Yes, the bezel/cabinet is flimsy, but I did the same test on other rear projection sets and only Sony and JVC's were "solid" You could tell that their TVs weigh a lot more too. They had a Toshiba that was just as bad, and the Mitsubishi was only slightly better. I get the picture to move on all of them though. When I looked at the Samsung's though, I didn't see any pincushioning or horizontal bowing. They also had a HLS 6187 that I could compare to. It had definite pincushioning. The pictures between the HLT 5087/5076 and the HLS6187 were comparable. Actually, all of the TVs there looked roughly the same in the crappy lighting condition and split input.

Does the 76 series have HDMI 1.3, or is that only the HLT XX89?

Have you considered getting a DVI to HDMI hook up that would solve the VGA problem...

Yo could you tell me how the DVI to HDMi thing works? also is it just as good a VGA? I am hoping for a bangin picture when I surf the internet and watch videos and what have you.

Yo could you tell me how the DVI to HDMi thing works? also is it just as good a VGA? I am hoping for a bangin picture when I surf the internet and watch videos and what have you.

What kind of videos:)))???

Anyways...here's how it works. You buy a hdmi to DVI cable and plug it in. Walla.

Yo could you tell me how the DVI to HDMi thing works? also is it just as good a VGA? I am hoping for a bangin picture when I surf the internet and watch videos and what have you.

As Muff stated you plug your DVI Video cable into one end of the DVI to HDMI cable and on the other end you plug that into you HDMI input and presto you get full 1080P from your computer.. The picture should be as good or better than VGA .. FYI I just got my Sony KDS 502020 yesterday and all I can say is WOW!!! The SD is great, the HD is amazing, blacks are inky black, great shadow detail, geometry is perfect and colors are vivid.

What kind of videos:)))???

Anyways...here's how it works. You buy a hdmi to DVI cable and plug it in. Walla.

well...you know....videos. hahha nah im playin.

Thats awesome idea though. And is it true that it either looks the same OR BETTER? thats sweet if thats the case. Not to mention if things work out with the samsung DLP that means I could use VGA fro my premium 360 which would be insanely sick!

Hey guys...an onkyyo hts790 HTIB is more than enough power and sound for a 12x12 room right?

OniMirage...that's good news then. Now I just have to get Samsung ECR back on the line to arrange the exchange...hopefully it doesn't take long for delivery. I'm also going to ask, however, about the cost to upgrade to the 89...I don't think it's really worth it for the 87...same TV as the 76 I believe except for the LED vs lamp issue. Does the 76 use the same lamp as last year's model? If not, I'll have to sell my spare on ebay...haha.


Navy have you seen a 89 or 87 in person? I had the displeasure of witnessing one a CC this weekend. The PQ was horrendous. Looked like an older CRT RPTV.

Please be cautious.

Semper Fi

I received my 5676 this Saturday and it's going back today. The bowing on this thing is horendous. How a manufacturer could release a set like this is totally beyond me. Every single horizontal line is bowed and on top of that the vertical lines are as well. I called Samsung to complain and they said they are aware of the issue and are working on a fix I told them to not worry about fixing mine it's going back.



Don't know what Im giong to get now. Maybe I'll give Sony a try. However I'm going to be loosing a few things with the Sony. Might be worth it if every thing else works out well.

My best advice is to wait. The Sony A3000 series comes out in August, greatly closing the gap in inputs between the Samsung and itself. Or, wait until the Samsung's are fixed, if that happens.

The Sammy's are great TV's. They just smile back at ya. :)

Thanks, Muff. That's disappointing, but perhaps it means a fix is eventually coming.
Yep, thanks Muff for the update.

Unfortunately, I don't think a "fix" exists since it seems like a design issue (flimsy screen and cabinet).

Maybe the old-school style cabinet of the HL-Txx76W Muff mentioned might be a "fix". : \

Yep, thanks Muff for the update.

Unfortunately, I don't think a "fix" exists since it seems like a design issue (flimsy screen and cabinet).

Maybe the old-school style cabinet of the HL-Txx76W Muff mentioned might be a "fix". : \

I totally agree... I think it's a 100% design issue. Those screws or what not in the back of the TV do absolute nothing to fix the issue.

It's just the flimsy cabinet that makes this thing up.

I received my 5676 this Saturday and it's going back today. The bowing on this thing is horendous. How a manufacturer could release a set like this is totally beyond me. Every single horizontal line is bowed and on top of that the vertical lines are as well. I called Samsung to complain and they said they are aware of the issue and are working on a fix I told them to not worry about fixing mine it's going back.



Don't know what Im giong to get now. Maybe I'll give Sony a try. However I'm going to be loosing a few things with the Sony. Might be worth it if every thing else works out well.


I had the sammy and turned it back into CC and got the Sony KDS-55A2020

It is just truly amazing watched Planet Earth on BR last night and almost cried. Such a fine picture.

Semper Fi ;)

my bowing issue is so small it is barely noticable but since I noticed it the thing just bugs me ... the thing that gets me right now is the buzzing ... it's going back and I am getting an exchange, i will stick with samsung just need to get me a good one

I'm waiting for authorization to exchange my HL-S6188...I was hoping it would be quick and painless but it's getting dragged out. I just called and said I want to upgrade to the 6189, as there are a lot fewer complaints about the bowing issue. I hate the pincushion on my 6188...althought the full screen picture was nice. Unfortunately, I can't watch either because my TV is dead. Also, when the Sony's come out do your research and see if the green blob issue was fixed. It wasn't fixed in the XBR2s, and Sony still hasn't accepted that it's a problem. It will also cost a lot and the technical support is terrible. On the other hand, no smiley issues and probably a lot less returns.

I had the sammy and turned it back into CC and got the Sony KDS-55A2020

It is just truly amazing watched Planet Earth on BR last night and almost cried. Such a fine picture.

Semper Fi ;)

what really is the difference in PQ with these two tvs. because bowing my not be noticeable when watching tv/movies/playin games...but I betcha surfing the internet would be a b***h!

what really is the difference in PQ with these two tvs. because bowing my not be noticeable when watching tv/movies/playin games...but I betcha surfing the internet would be a b***h!
according to most reviews I have seen the color accuracy on the sony tv's just isn't there. I am sure after some major tweaking this could be fixed but then again...

I had a Sony XBR1 (50") for about a week and wasn't that impressed. The cabinet is big an bulky (but a lot more sturdy than the Samsung...so that isn't necessarily bad), but the picture is a lot softer than any of the DLPs I've seen. Hopefully, this year Sony will get rid of the Dumbo ear speakers that everyone hates. LCOS/SXRD has a lot going for in terms of reducing RBE, but I haven't seen any with better picture quality. JVC has a great TV, but I've seen them in stores and at home and the PQ is nowhere near as good as my dead 6188. The Sony was slightly better than the JVC.

See my last post from Friday. After having the HLT for 4 days, and then getting the Sony a2020 last Friday, I can tell you that IMO the HLT has a noticeably better PQ. Just seems that the colors are more vibrant, they jump right out, and the images are well delineated. I haven't played around with the picture settings, so maybe I'll bet some improvement.

All that said, I'm very happy with my Sony. No smiles, no frowns, just a real nice picture and a good feeling of a quality product.

See my last post from Friday. After having the HLT for 4 days, and then getting the Sony a2020 last Friday, I can tell you that IMO the HLT has a noticeably better PQ. Just seems that the colors are more vibrant, they jump right out, and the images are well delineated. I haven't played around with the picture settings, so maybe I'll bet some improvement.

All that said, I'm very happy with my Sony. No smiles, no frowns, just a real nice picture and a good feeling of a quality product.

Yeah There is no doubt in my mind now.....I was wondering....if this sony a2020 is so great why do I never see any when I go to CC BB and brandsmart....its because they don't stand out.....and THAT SUCKS FOR ME! Samsung is the way to go for me clearly then....

Would a 1080p samsung LCD with 15,000:1 contrast ratio have JUST as good PQ as the samsung DLPs????

Dang is there ANY OTHER TV thats just as good?? or better?? haha

Yeah There is no doubt in my mind now.....I was wondering....if this sony a2020 is so great why do I never see any when I go to CC BB and brandsmart....its because they don't stand out.....and THAT SUCKS FOR ME! Samsung is the way to go for me clearly then....

I have the KDS 50A2020 and all I can say is WOW!!! Amazing HD, Ink Jet Blacks, Perfect Geometry, Colors that POP out at you and good to Great SD... Standing side by side along the Samsung if the labels were removed you could not tell a diffrence except that the Samsung has the worst Geometry out there bar none!!! But Sony clarity, colors, blacks are on par or better then the Samsung!! IMHO..

I have the KDS 50A2020 and all I can say is WOW!!! Amazing HD, Ink Jet Blacks, Perfect Geometry, Colors that POP out at you and good to Great SD... Standing side by side along the Samsung if the labels were removed you could not tell a diffrence except that the Samsung has the worst Geometry out there bar none!!! But Sony clarity, colors, blacks are on par or better then the Samsung!! IMHO..

Are you sure its not just denial that the samsung is better in your eyes and that you just dont want the problems? (not being sarcastic at all)

I just ask because I know its human to defend what you paid hard earned money for and I just don't want to make a bad decision thats all.

But what about the 1080p samsung LCD with 15,000:1 contrast ratio?? better PQ than sammy DLPs or less?

The Sony set gets good reviews by professional reviewers, calibrators, and a lot of people on this board. The A2000 and A2020 are very similiar sets, and if you look at those two owner's threads, you will find a lot of similiar opinions. Most of the color problems seem isolated to the A2000 and seemed to have been worked out over time.

Very few people have complained about the PQ of the Sony and a LOT of people who don't own one but own competing brands have said they are good TV's. While your question is certainly fair, there is substantial belief in the quality of Sony's picture, as there is with Samsungs.

Both quality TV's with their own unique flaws. They get compared a lot around here for a very good reason. :)

The Sony set gets good reviews by professional reviewers, calibrators, and a lot of people on this board. The A2000 and A2020 are very similiar sets, and if you look at those two owner's threads, you will find a lot of similiar opinions. Most of the color problems seem isolated to the A2000 and seemed to have been worked out over time.

Very few people have complained about the PQ of the Sony and a LOT of people who don't own one but own competing brands have said they are good TV's. While your question is certainly fair, there is substantial belief in the quality of Sony's picture, as there is with Samsungs.

Both quality TV's with their own unique flaws. They get compared a lot around here for a very good reason. :)

I guess I will stop by a CC BB or brandsmart and look for it to check it out myself.

Thanks for the response....BUT WHAT ABOUT the 1080p samsung LCD with the 15,000:1 contrast ratio????

I don't know, maybe someone else does. I'm not that familiar with the Samsung LCD's.

I guess I will stop by a CC BB or brandsmart and look for it to check it out myself.

Thanks for the response....BUT WHAT ABOUT the 1080p samsung LCD with the 15,000:1 contrast ratio????

My brother bought the ln-t4065F. That's the 15000:1 con. ratio you are talking about.

The PQ is defintely good. The blacks are friggin fantastic. I feel the DLP set is much brighter and things pop more, but on the LCD set, you do not have the geometry issues or any Silk screen effect. My brothers also has 2 clouds on it that I can see when the screen is all black. It's annoying, but not as annoying as geometry issues. The LCD is also more costly to fix when the warranty is up. There are a lot of pros and cons to both. See what bugs you the less and make a choice.


You should just look at the thread for the specific LCD you are looking for and do your own research on this. It's not a good idea to start rolling on a topic of LCD's on a pure HL-t thread.

I have the KDS 50A2020 and all I can say is WOW!!! Amazing HD, Ink Jet Blacks, Perfect Geometry, Colors that POP out at you and good to Great SD... Standing side by side along the Samsung if the labels were removed you could not tell a diffrence except that the Samsung has the worst Geometry out there bar none!!! But Sony clarity, colors, blacks are on par or better then the Samsung!! IMHO..

As I mentioned previously, I had not calibrated or modified my a2020 factory settings. I would like to do that. Can you tell me what picture settings you are using for your HDMI input?

thanks!

so i am on my 5th hlt 5076s and my 3rd tech visit. last time the tech didn't do anything even after getting a special bulletin about the tv, we looked at the info it was all about fixing bowing but this is the "smiley face" i guess. anyways he said the only thing he can think of was getting a whole new light engine, so i have that on the way. if that doesn't work i'm going for the LED or LCD. i am so sick and tired of this and past my 30 days.

so i am on my 5th hlt 5076s and my 3rd tech visit. last time the tech didn't do anything even after getting a special bulletin about the tv, we looked at the info it was all about fixing bowing but this is the "smiley face" i guess. anyways he said the only thing he can think of was getting a whole new light engine, so i have that on the way. if that doesn't work i'm going for the LED or LCD. i am so sick and tired of this and past my 30 days.

Sorry to hear this, mranbel, you hung in there a heck of a lot longer than I. Let it go, and bring on some quality! You deserve it! Everyone deserves it. Samsung has some 'splaining' to do.....

All the best!

Sorry to hear this, mranbel, you hung in there a heck of a lot longer than I. Let it go, and bring on some quality! You deserve it! Everyone deserves it. Samsung has some 'splaining' to do.....

All the best!

Went to CC again today! Yes the samsung DLP has bowing.... I saw the sony a2020...It does have a very nice picture...

But for 30 mins I stayed in CC and watched POTC on blu-ray on the HLT6176s. The bowing does not bother me so....and I know they will fix it eventually.

ATM I'm with Muff. I believe it will all be worth it.

BTW is it just me or does the 56" sammy dlp look kinda small? dunno but every time I see the hlt6176s I believe it to be the hlt5676s 56 incher. haha.

As I mentioned previously, I had not calibrated or modified my a2020 factory settings. I would like to do that. Can you tell me what picture settings you are using for your HDMI input?

thanks!

I did a slightly Modified version of "Abulia" setting he posted on 7-14 post 1155 on the Sony 2020 thread. Cut the colors down a little bit they Poped a tad too much for my tastes. :) Great picture not sure how anyone could say the Samsung blows the sony away and seen some say going through the bowing hassle is worth it in the end due to the so called great picture. Could not see a bit if diffrence between the two except as I said the Sony looked a tad better in SD IMO. Some say the Samsung viewing angles are very bad the Sony has great viewing angles. Plus it does not smile at you, you do not have a tech visit you house multiple times scratching his head not knowing what to do and have multiple TVs delivered to your house with the same issue. All you get is one delivery, no techs, no Bowing and just a great Picture.

Here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=812631&page=39&pp=30

so i am on my 5th hlt 5076s and my 3rd tech visit. last time the tech didn't do anything even after getting a special bulletin about the tv, we looked at the info it was all about fixing bowing but this is the "smiley face" i guess. anyways he said the only thing he can think of was getting a whole new light engine, so i have that on the way. if that doesn't work i'm going for the LED or LCD. i am so sick and tired of this and past my 30 days.


I feel your pain. This is my 3rd. I went through 2 50" version and now have a f'ed up 56". If this gets to a week before my 30 days is up, I am returning for the 55A2020. I'm tired of it. All this smiley face crap is bull.

The problem comes from the terminology we use when talking to customer support, and customer supports lack of asking for detail and knowing the correct terminology. Bowing refers to how the bars on the side of a 4:3 pulldown being push inward. A barrel effect is where we have horizonta lines having a frown on the bottom and a smile up top. This smiley face is a whole other issue, and we keep on using the word bowing and Samsung is trying to cure something that is not even our problem.

Luckily the tech came out and took pictures of the problem. He said he would get back to me today and promised that he would have word back from an engineer by today.

The light engine replacement is not the problem.

There is also a new problem that I've found

On the bottom of the screen, about 3-4 inches on the left and right sides, there is a thumb print shadow that develops. I first noticed 2 days ago with XBOX 360 connected through my VGA. On a bright screen it made it noticeable, and there all the time. This was only visible with a bright screen. I then experimented and unplugged the VGA and connected it with the component cables.

It was gone....at least I thought. Now it goes away if the menu bar isn't up. But if I thorw on the menu bar and click "picture" or any other option...the thumb print shadows develop, 1 on each side. When you close the menu...they go away.


This might be a light engine problem, and hopefully I will find out this weekend when they come and replace it, along with them hopefully fixing the Smiley face.


When you spend this much money for a TV, money you could spend on paying off a crdit card, or on something else, all these screwed up TV's add to the buyer's remorse. You think twice about what you bought. All we want is to feel good about laying down $2000, and Samsung doesn't make you feel this way


My finance has had enough with this TV crap. She just wants me to be happy so I don't drive her crazy anymore with this. If the next tech visit goes wrong...it's going back for good.

I got a 5076 last week and have the bowing issue. When I first watched, I didn't notice it much, but I took a good look last night and it is very pronounced (I don't know if it had gotten worse, but I remember looking at the program guide and thinking the horizontal lines looked straight before. Last night, there was the obvious "smile".)

I was already a little nervous about the durability of the screen and cabinet given that I have a one year old son in the house, so I think this may be enough to push me over to the plasma side of things (I'd consider a Sony SXRD, but I really don't want an 18" deep television.)

Went to CC again today! Yes the samsung DLP has bowing.... I saw the sony a2020...It does have a very nice picture...

But for 30 mins I stayed in CC and watched POTC on blu-ray on the HLT6176s. The bowing does not bother me so....and I know they will fix it eventually.

ATM I'm with Muff. I believe it will all be worth it.

BTW is it just me or does the 56" sammy dlp look kinda small? dunno but every time I see the hlt6176s I believe it to be the hlt5676s 56 incher. haha.


push on the screen and tell me what you think then.

I did a slightly Modified version of "Abulia" setting he posted on 7-14 post 1155 on the Sony 2020 thread. Cut the colors down a little bit they Poped a tad too much for my tastes. :) Great picture not sure how anyone could say the Samsung blows the sony away and seen some say going through the bowing hassle is worth it in the end due to the so called great picture. Could not see a bit if diffrence between the two except as I said the Sony looked a tad better in SD IMO. Some say the Samsung viewing angles are very bad the Sony has great viewing angles. Plus it does not smile at you, you do not have a tech visit you house multiple times scratching his head not knowing what to do and have multiple TVs delivered to your house with the same issue. All you get is one delivery, no techs, no Bowing and just a great Picture.

Here is the link:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=812631&page=39&pp=30


I am with OZ both of us where on the Sammy and moved to the Sony the SD is the best I have ever seen using OZ's settings. Blacks are excellent and the screen does not collapse when you push on it or smile at you.

I have owned many many Sammys and the build quality is reprenhensible. The HLS models have light engine problems all within 6 months - btw took four months to replace.

The HLT LCD DLP 87's and 89's PQ looks like CRT RPTV tech from early 90's.

The HLT DLP 76's as well as 89 all have bowing.

I am not trying to be a Sony fanboy - in fact I like DLP but I am a concerned HT enthusiast that really cares.

Please DO NOT buy the Sammy products.

I feel your pain. This is my 3rd. I went through 2 50" version and now have a f'ed up 56". If this gets to a week before my 30 days is up, I am returning for the 55A2020. I'm tired of it. All this smiley face crap is bull.

The problem comes from the terminology we use when talking to customer support, and customer supports lack of asking for detail and knowing the correct terminology. Bowing refers to how the bars on the side of a 4:3 pulldown being push inward. A barrel effect is where we have horizonta lines having a frown on the bottom and a smile up top. This smiley face is a whole other issue, and we keep on using the word bowing and Samsung is trying to cure something that is not even our problem.

Luckily the tech came out and took pictures of the problem. He said he would get back to me today and promised that he would have word back from an engineer by today.

The light engine replacement is not the problem.

There is also a new problem that I've found

On the bottom of the screen, about 3-4 inches on the left and right sides, there is a thumb print shadow that develops. I first noticed 2 days ago with XBOX 360 connected through my VGA. On a bright screen it made it noticeable, and there all the time. This was only visible with a bright screen. I then experimented and unplugged the VGA and connected it with the component cables.

It was gone....at least I thought. Now it goes away if the menu bar isn't up. But if I thorw on the menu bar and click "picture" or any other option...the thumb print shadows develop, 1 on each side. When you close the menu...they go away.


This might be a light engine problem, and hopefully I will find out this weekend when they come and replace it, along with them hopefully fixing the Smiley face.


When you spend this much money for a TV, money you could spend on paying off a crdit card, or on something else, all these screwed up TV's add to the buyer's remorse. You think twice about what you bought. All we want is to feel good about laying down $2000, and Samsung doesn't make you feel this way


My finance has had enough with this TV crap. She just wants me to be happy so I don't drive her crazy anymore with this. If the next tech visit goes wrong...it's going back for good.

Based on our private dialog - please do get the Sony - It is about time that a clear message is sent to Samsung about the poor quality of the products they manufacture.

We as consumers deserve more for our hard earned dollar.

If you do exchange the set please let us know your best settings and your positive and negative opinions about the Sony.

Thanks!

TC

I got a 5076 last week and have the bowing issue. When I first watched, I didn't notice it much, but I took a good look last night and it is very pronounced (I don't know if it had gotten worse, but I remember looking at the program guide and thinking the horizontal lines looked straight before. Last night, there was the obvious "smile".)

I just posted on how the terminology is screwing up getting this fixed by Samsung, and there someone goes using the word "BOWING" to describe the "smiley face" again. What's the point of these posts! If people keep on calling it bowing and confusing the hell out of the already dumb customer support Samsung has, we are never going to get anywhere!!

Being that these are the types of people who own Sammy's, I might just go bring back the Sammy now and get a SONY. I believe the majority of people that buy Samsungs, are the main reasons the problems never get fixed!!

I just posted on how the terminology is screwing up getting this fixed by Samsung, and there someone goes using the word "BOWING" to describe the "smiley face" again. What's the point of these posts! If people keep on calling it bowing and confusing the hell out of the already dumb customer support Samsung has, we are never going to get anywhere!!

Being that these are the types of people who own Sammy's, I might just go bring back the Sammy now and get a SONY. I believe the majority of people that buy Samsungs, are the main reasons the problems never get fixed!!

I find it laughable you are blaming terminolgy and or the consumer on these sets not getting fixed. Seriously I shot Soda out of my nose when I read this.

It's a design flaw and don't think for a second Samsung doesnt' know what's being talked about when the consumer describes this situation to them.

So...Amazon has the HLT6176 on sale right now for $1799 w/ free shipping.

I've been reading over this thread, and it seems likely upon purchase that the TV would have minor (or major) geometry issues, but outstanding PQ.

With the sale price, is it worth it to get the set knowing there could be problems? Or should I just continue waiting and looking at other models?

I find it laughable you are blaming terminolgy and or the consumer on these sets not getting fixed. Seriously I shot Soda out of my nose when I read this.

It's a design flaw and don't think for a second Samsung doesnt' know what's being talked about when the consumer describes this situation to them.

Put it this way. If no one ever complained about the "green blob" on thr Sony A2000, they would have never fixed it or put there time into it.

If people call up complaining about bowing, they think it has to do with the HL-S bowing issue where the 4:3 pulldown caved in from the sides. So now customer support sends techs out to fix bowing issues. They get there and think the mirror adjustment fixes it....but it doesn't and then they don't know what to do.

The problem is is that it prolongs the issue. This problem could have been at the same point it is at now or fixed if the right terminology was used from the geico..................the get-go.

Put it this way. If no one ever complained about the "green blob" on thr Sony A2000, they would have never fixed it or put there time into it.

If people call up complaining about bowing, they think it has to do with the HL-S bowing issue where the 4:3 pulldown caved in from the sides. So now customer support sends techs out to fix bowing issues. They get there and think the mirror adjustment fixes it....but it doesn't and then they don't know what to do.

The problem is is that it prolongs the issue. This problem could have been at the same point it is at now or fixed if the right terminology was used from the geico..................the get-go.




You are assuming a lot. I talked to a rep yesterday and she told me that they had recieved a lot of calls about horizontal bowing.

IMO it's kind of hard to mix up horizontal bowing with vertical bowing....it would be kind of like mixing up left and right.

You are giving too much credit to Samsung. Trust me after talking to the rep the other day, they know there is a problem. You can either wait until they come up with a fix for it or move on.

I'm moving on...the picture on my set not only has horizontal bowing it has vertical bowing as well. There isn't a straight line on the TV.

I hear ya man. What's a TV without straight lines???? What are you moving on to?

Well, talking terminology confusion...I thought the "curvature" of the picture on 4:3 content was known as "pincushion" not "bowing." Also, I didn't realize Sony had fixed the green blob issue. Unless the A2020 somehow fixed it, the A2000 and the earlier XBR1 both had it, and Sony refused to do anything about it, saying it was normal. When I had my XBR1 for a week, they said it was normal operation and that after 30 minutes of the TV being on it would go away. It would get reduced but not go away, so watching anything with a light background had the blob in the middle of the screen and in the corners. Hockey games were horrible. As for the geometry issues, a lot of it is caused by the reduction in footprint. The Sony, JVC, and Mitsubishi reduced theirs because their TVs are much deeper. I've seen some Mitsubishis though that have it pretty bad. When Samsung reduced the depth of their TVs, and went with the thin bezel design, this increased the geometry problems because of the angle the light has to reflect at. I could be wrong, but that is what a tech explained to me for the cause of "pincushion" and the HL-TXX76s have it the worst because they are the thinnest...even the HL-TXX87/89s are deeper. Read on the HL-S XX87/88 forum some of the fixes people made to reduce pincushion and take advantage of the play in bezel/screen. There are even pictures on there of TVs with 0 geometry issues. I do agree Samsung needs to fix this for everyone that has issue with it. I'm every more concerned with seeing how many light engines fail and other similar issues. When you call for service it often takes like a week for a tech to show up. When you have a full TV failure that is a pain, as is constantly taking off work.

I hear ya man. What's a TV without straight lines???? What are you moving on to?


I'm debating between the 87 LED series or the Sony A2020.

I can get a smoking deal on the 87 series right now and I'm leaning more towards it because I really like the pictures quality on these Samsung's.

I'm debating between the 87 LED series or the Sony A2020.

I can get a smoking deal on the 87 series right now and I'm leaning more towards it because I really like the pictures quality on these Samsung's.


Do yourself a favor, read the Sammy LED thread and wait for the Sony A3000 coming in a just a few weeks. I'm done with Samsung after going through 4 Tvs in 6 months with them. I give them credit for trying to help but each replacement set showed up with issues, LEDs had blotches all over the screen and visible rainbows, the HL-T has the bowing picture and it's just up an died in the first 2 hours. Samsung should be embarrassed at the lack of quality control.

Well, talking terminology confusion...I thought the "curvature" of the picture on 4:3 content was known as "pincushion" not "bowing." Also, I didn't realize Sony had fixed the green blob issue. Unless the A2020 somehow fixed it, the A2000 and the earlier XBR1 both had it, and Sony refused to do anything about it, saying it was normal. When I had my XBR1 for a week, they said it was normal operation and that after 30 minutes of the TV being on it would go away. It would get reduced but not go away, so watching anything with a light background had the blob in the middle of the screen and in the corners. Hockey games were horrible. As for the geometry issues, a lot of it is caused by the reduction in footprint. The Sony, JVC, and Mitsubishi reduced theirs because their TVs are much deeper. I've seen some Mitsubishis though that have it pretty bad. When Samsung reduced the depth of their TVs, and went with the thin bezel design, this increased the geometry problems because of the angle the light has to reflect at. I could be wrong, but that is what a tech explained to me for the cause of "pincushion" and the HL-TXX76s have it the worst because they are the thinnest...even the HL-TXX87/89s are deeper. Read on the HL-S XX87/88 forum some of the fixes people made to reduce pincushion and take advantage of the play in bezel/screen. There are even pictures on there of TVs with 0 geometry issues. I do agree Samsung needs to fix this for everyone that has issue with it. I'm every more concerned with seeing how many light engines fail and other similar issues. When you call for service it often takes like a week for a tech to show up. When you have a full TV failure that is a pain, as is constantly taking off work.

I agree with the taking off work part...thats a pain in the butt. Luckily the service center near me has started doing Saturdays...I even know the people personally sue to having to go to them so much.

Anyways...."pincushion" is synonymous with "bowing". I also wrote above in a post that the issue has to do with the angle the light reflects at b/x of the slim tv, and that any deviance in the screen will exemplify the problem.

Do yourself a favor, read the Sammy LED thread and wait for the Sony A3000 coming in a just a few weeks. I'm done with Samsung after going through 4 Tvs in 6 months with them. I give them credit for trying to help but each replacement set showed up with issues, LEDs had blotches all over the screen and visible rainbows, the HL-T has the bowing picture and it's just up an died in the first 2 hours. Samsung should be embarrassed at the lack of quality control.

I'd probably follow your route but I've had my HL-S for too long so I know I can't get a refund without legal action. I'm still waiting for my approval to exchange for the HL-T...2 days and counting now. If they turn me down, or that TV comes defective...I'll take advantage of being Navy and go to my legal office to take action for a refund.

im gonna take a picture today to post up here so you guys can see my issue. It is so small that it is literally non noticable when there isn't a ticker on screen

Do yourself a favor, read the Sammy LED thread and wait for the Sony A3000 coming in a just a few weeks. I'm done with Samsung after going through 4 Tvs in 6 months with them. I give them credit for trying to help but each replacement set showed up with issues, LEDs had blotches all over the screen and visible rainbows, the HL-T has the bowing picture and it's just up an died in the first 2 hours. Samsung should be embarrassed at the lack of quality control.

That's the thing the A3000 won't be shipping till late August. I don't have that much time for my 30 day return policy.

I just went and looked at the LED sets again. It's going to be a no go with them. The viewing angle was terrible and no matter what I did to the controls it looked dimmed out over ever set next to it.

I guess my last option is the Sony.

How about something good to report for those who bought this TV...
http://news.com.com/1606-2-6197253.html?tag=nefd.also

How about something good to report for those who bought this TV...
http://news.com.com/1606-2-6197253.html?tag=nefd.also

Nice...but I think they should have these on display inside Retailers. If I don't know how good the 3D looks, I am not going to buy all the products to make it happen.

sorry guys took the pics but forgot to upload them before I went to sleep. I will get on it when I get home

This is my first HDTV purchase :-)

Hooray for that!

Boo for not knowing how to calibrate it - where is that darn calibration post? Maybe one with an image I can use on the screen?

Man, well amazon.com has the hlt5676s for $1649 and the HLT6176S for $1799! Seems likes greats deals to me.

My only worry is the warranty!! Is it true that samsung has a standard 1 year warranty? And if so....what about this link that supposedly gives you a 3 month warranty? does that make it 1 year and 3 months or??

http://product.samsung.com/cgi-bin/nabc/product_reg/b2c_product_reg.jsp?eUser=

Does anyone know of extended Trustworthy warranties sold along with TVs from amazon.com?

Joey...yes, you are correct. If you register online Samsung extends the warranty an extra 3 months. I highly recommend doing it.

Hello All,

I have a HL-S56878W, after two light engine changes and many phone calls, Samsung has offered to replace it with HL-T5676S. I thought my problems were over until I read your negative comments about HL-TXX76 models. I am now very hesitant to accept their offer.
What other options do I have? Can I ask for a refund? Has anyone tried it? Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

amm

Hello All,

I have a HL-S56878W, after two light engine changes and many phone calls, Samsung has offered to replace it with HL-T5676S. I thought my problems were over until I read your negative comments about HL-TXX76 models. I am now very hesitant to accept their offer.
What other options do I have? Can I ask for a refund? Has anyone tried it? Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

amm

Truly a scary situation there yo. I have only barely noticed this "smiley face" issue at my local CC which had the HLT6176S on display playing POTC on bluray....in the main menu the little ticker giving options to either play the movie or see other features appeared to slant downwards a little bit on the right side. once the movie started though it was amazing and I immediately stopped looking at all other sets and set in he recliner provided and watched about 30 mins......wow.....soooo sick!!

I believe that most of the people on this site have owned HDTVs before along with home theater systems and what have you. My reason for mentioning such is I believe that the problem would not seem NEARLY as huge to someone who has never owned a HDTV before....

Take me for example.

I currently watch Standard DVDs on my xbox 360 premium on a 7 year old mitsubishi 45" self standing EDTV 480p. Did I mentioned it has two scratches on the screen(although barely noticeable doing tv viewing) top and bottom....and (oh, the best part) has been struck by lighting. haha

So coming from that I doubt very seriously that I would throw a fit about a minor tilt(although some claim to have INSANE MAJOR bowing)in my tv only noticeable with strait lines.

Anyways I will do like everyone else and buy the tv and test the Hi def waters and see how bad this..."bowing", "pincushion", or "smiley face" issue really is.

Hello All,

I have a HL-S56878W, after two light engine changes and many phone calls, Samsung has offered to replace it with HL-T5676S. I thought my problems were over until I read your negative comments about HL-TXX76 models. I am now very hesitant to accept their offer.
What other options do I have? Can I ask for a refund? Has anyone tried it? Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance for your help.

amm

I think Ja Mata is the only one to get his money refunded. How long have you had your 5687? For all the problems for the people on the forums, and I'm curious to see what percentage of us represent all owners...actually very small I think...Samsung, while slow, at least seems to listen to issues and honors their warranty. Sony and other manufacturers try to put the burden on you to prove that whatever it is is a defect, and not normal. I know that doesn't make it right, as you shouldn't have to exchange your TV period, but at least you know you have a valid warranty.

I think Ja Mata is the only one to get his money refunded. How long have you had your 5687? For all the problems for the people on the forums, and I'm curious to see what percentage of us represent all owners...actually very small I think...Samsung, while slow, at least seems to listen to issues and honors their warranty. Sony and other manufacturers try to put the burden on you to prove that whatever it is is a defect, and not normal. I know that doesn't make it right, as you shouldn't have to exchange your TV period, but at least you know you have a valid warranty.

Thanks for the fast reply.
I have had it for a year.
To give some credit to Samsung, the first repair attempt was fast and that should have taken care of the problem. Unfortunately the tech. made the situation worse. From then on, things took a nose dive. Of course none of these companies want to admit that their technicians are not very well trained. Dealing with the customer service during the last six months has not been pleasant. They are now trying to help by providing an exchange, however after reading the comments on their new TV models, I am not sure if this solution is worse than the original problem or not.

Thanks,

amm

What problem is your TV having?

Thanks for the fast reply.
I have had it for a year.
To give some credit to Samsung, the first repair attempt was fast and that should have taken care of the problem. Unfortunately the tech. made the situation worse. From then on, things took a nose dive. Of course none of these companies want to admit that their technicians are not very well trained. Dealing with the customer service during the last six months has not been pleasant. They are now trying to help by providing an exchange, however after reading the comments on their new TV models, I am not sure if this solution is worse than the original problem or not.

Thanks,

amm

If Samsung sends you the TV straight from them, the problem might not be there. If it has to go through distribution (From Mexico to Samsung facility, to the circuit city facility, and then finally to Circuit city or wherever) the problem will have a better chance of being there. I say go for the 5676S. The worst that happens is that the TV bows and they come and fix it.........maybe that doesn't sound too good after all.

I surrender! This is one battle I don't have to fight. My latest bowed HL-T5676S is going back to BB and a Sony KDSxxA2020 will be coming soon.
The white flag went up after talking with a local tech (the same company that serviced the 1st set). They don't have a clue what were talking about, so I e-mailed a photo to him (see attachment below) and also this websites' address. All I got was the usual questions like; "Did you place something heavy on top of the set? Is the set on a flat surface?" Somehow they don't get it; Samsung screwed up, not us! My final impression is there is no hope that Samsung will get it right.
Like I said; This is one battle I don't have to fight.

^^ That's pretty much how my TV looks.

I talked to the place where I bought my TV and they put me on the list for the Sony A3000. It's not in their system yet when it comes in they will replace the set.

^^ That's pretty much how my TV looks.

I talked to the place where I bought my TV and they put me on the list for the Sony A3000. It's not in their system yet when it comes in they will replace the set.

Mine looks the exact same way as well.

The store you went to said they would replace it with an A3000 at no extra cost to you???

I surrender! This is one battle I don't have to fight. My latest bowed HL-T5676S is going back to BB and a Sony KDSxxA2020 will be coming soon.
The white flag went up after talking with a local tech (the same company that serviced the 1st set). They don't have a clue what were talking about, so I e-mailed a photo to him (see attachment below) and also this websites' address. All I got was the usual questions like; "Did you place something heavy on top of the set? Is the set on a flat surface?" Somehow they don't get it; Samsung screwed up, not us! My final impression is there is no hope that Samsung will get it right.
Like I said; This is one battle I don't have to fight.

I feel your pain. The tech said he would call me this week after he talks to some people on how to fix the problem. I called him Tuesday and he said he hadn't forgot about me and he will call me on Wednesday. Wednesday goes by as well as Thursday and still no call.

This crap TV is going back. Again...it's a shame considering on good the picture looks besides the geometry.

Do we know if the A3000 will be the same price as the current A2020 once it hits stores?? If so, or even if it is a $100 more. Waiting a month might be worth it, unless the new slim A3000 also has geometry problems like the other slim rear projections.

Well

I am exchanging my HLT5076. BB is bringing a replacement on Monday. My bowing was not that bad but it was eating at me. I am now afraid I will get one that is worse. The main reason I am sticking with the Samsung is that I got 36 months same as cash with payments and 12% off on my BB card. The payment plan was only for Samsung and Mitsubishi. The Sony did not have that financing. Also, the Sammy looks better to me and I am familiar with them because I have an HLP5063 that I have no problems with. I am going to give it one more shot and then on to the Sony SXRD or a refund.

Alvin

Mine looks the exact same way as well.

The store you went to said they would replace it with an A3000 at no extra cost to you???

No I will have to pay for any difference in price.

Samsung is refunding my money. I have an HL-S and they tried to replace it with the HL-T DLP. That ended up on back order so samsung agreed to send the LED version. The 1st showed up with many smudges/blotches so I refused it, the second showed up with the same problem only worse so I refused that too, the HL-T DLP had massive geometry issues and is a complete piece of S&*^. Avoid it. Samsung at least did the right thing and refunded my money and I patiently await the Sony A3000 next month. They will overnight the check after they come pick up my HL-S in the next couple of weeks. This process, from the time I reported my first of many issues with the HL-S, about a year an a half.