First, my apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. Direction to any relevant discussions are appreciated.

I have recently entered the HD world and have a question regarding the quality of HDMI cables and whether or not it makes sense to pay for high-end cables like Monster. I have seen a lot of mixed opinions on this and would welcome any feedback.

As HDMI is a digital format, it seems to me that as long as the 1's and 0's are making it through the cable then it shouldn't matter. Another logical conclusion is that a more expensive cable will have better construction. But, is there truly any benefit from an audio/video perspective?

Also, what impact does HMDI 1.3 represent?

My components are:
- Sony 52XBR2
- Motorola HD Digital cable box (Comcast) (DVI out)
- Tivo Series 3 DVR
- Sony BDP-S300 (when released)
- AppleTV (soon)

Thanks for the guidance.

First, my apologies if this has been covered elsewhere. Direction to any relevant discussions are appreciated.

I have recently entered the HD world and have a question regarding the quality of HDMI cables and whether or not it makes sense to pay for high-end cables like Monster. I have seen a lot of mixed opinions on this and would welcome any feedback.

As HDMI is a digital format, it seems to me that as long as the 1's and 0's are making it through the cable then it shouldn't matter. Another logical conclusion is that a more expensive cable will have better construction. But, is there truly any benefit from an audio/video perspective?

Also, what impact does HMDI 1.3 represent?

My components are:
- Sony 52XBR2
- Motorola HD Digital cable box (Comcast) (DVI out)
- Tivo Series 3 DVR
- Sony BDP-S300 (when released)
- AppleTV (soon)

Thanks for the guidance.

I'm no expert, but with a total of five HDMI screens, and five DTV receivers plus a couple of HDMI DVD players, I've used an assortment of non-Monster Cable HDMI cables of varying lengths and prices a fraction of Monster. They all work for me -- from Pacific Cable, Geffen, and Monoprice.

Heck, digital is digital. Either the bits and bytes are there, or they're not. Once you pry through the extravagant Monster packaging and hide the cables behind the equipment, none of the glitz matters.

Stan

Heck, digital is digital. Either the bits and bytes are there, or they're not. Once you pry through the extravagant Monster packaging and hide the cables behind the equipment, none of the glitz matters.

StanExcept that some cables will be better at assuring that the 0's and 1's get to their destination.

Network cables are bits and bytes too but cat 5 cable is better than cat 3 cable. If one runs a cat 3 cable 150 ft and expect it to do 100mb you're dreaming. The signal will drop to a level where the the two sides won't connect.

HDMI is no different, if the bits don't get through they're lost. At short cable runs it probably doesn't make a diff but running 50' ft runs will likely be significant.

You will likely see no difference in the picture quality using cheap cables. The biggest difference is in the quality of the connectors and cable jacket.

I have used various types of cables for displays.....no differences to be found as far as PQ is concerned.

You will likely see no difference in the picture quality using cheap cables. The biggest difference is in the quality of the connectors and cable jacket.

I have used various types of cables for displays.....no differences to be found as far as PQ is concerned.What length were those various cables? If they were all 6 ft cables, I'd agree with you. One won't see a difference. However, my point was that quality matters at longer lengths.

What length were those various cables? If they were all 6 ft cables, I'd agree with you. One won't see a difference. However, my point was that quality matters at longer lengths.


I have a 25' HDMI cable in use at this time. No differences can be detected between the component and HDMI. BTW, with a run of 50' or more, you are taking your chances with any cable manufacturer. HDMI needs an amplifier or repeater at these lengths.

Comparing cat3 and cat5 cabling is similar (cat5 has more twists per foot). The PQ may be affected by longer lengths, but this is typically seen as 'sparklies'.

I have a 25' HDMI cable in use at this time. No differences can be detected between the component and HDMI. BTW, with a run of 50' or more, you are taking your chances with any cable manufacturer. HDMI needs an amplifier or repeater at these lengths.I haven't tested it (yet) myself. However, Blue Jean Cable, who make high quality cables, state (http://bluejeanscable.com/store/dvi/index.htm) that their "Blue Jeans Cable Series-2 HDMI cables have proven reliable out to at least 50 feet, while many others fail at shorter distances. In our own in-use testing, we have found that the 50-foot cable operates flawlessly at 1080p." Monoprice also sells 22AWG HDMI cables up to 100'.

Of course, this is a vendor making the claim. I'd be curious regarding independent tests. (A job for Myth Busters?) I think what we're trying to do is either confirm or refute the hypothesis that the quality of HDMI cables makes no difference. Surely one can make a low quality cable using bell wire that doesn't go out to 50' and if a company can then make one using AWG22 cable and it does go to 50', that would seem to be conclusive. The only question then becomes a matter of specifications - for XX ft, you need a cable that meets this spec.

My interest in this is that I want to run an HDMI from my central console to my ceiling mounted Z5 projector. Since I want to run the cable conceiled around the perimeter of the room, I need a long length of cable.

The quality of the cable is no where near as important as the quality of the silicon in the receiving end. Its a digital transport system and the cable is only attenuating the signal up to 8dB (if the cable is compliant). This is relatively a small amount of loss in the communications world and it allows for silicon vendors to make cheap implementations.

The corresponding length for 8dB attenuation can vary from cable to cable, but its usually about 25ft for a 1080p/60Hz signal at 8-bit color .... and no, Monster is not consistantly any better. I have seen plenty of cheap cables that perform equally or better. Am I'm not talking about some subjective test of looking at the screen for sparkles. I'm talking about looking at the insertion loss and the impedance of the cable.

The other issue is silicon sensitivity to timing domain impairments like jitter and skew. I've tested some TVs that exhibit variable performance over different cable lengths, sometimes worse or even failing at short cables! Again, primarily a function of the source (which introduces the jitter) and the quality of the silicon in the receiver (which should be able to tolerate and essentially eliminate the jitter if the source jitter is within spec).

SimplayHD testing is making progress in that it tests 'HDCP connectivity' over different lengths of cables, but it doesn't appear to re-evaluate performance objectives over these lengths.

So without knowing much about the silicon inside your equipment, the best approach would be to buy cheap cable and test it, if it doesn't work, buy another cheap cable and repeat until you find one that works for you. Its still a cheaper way to go than forking over $200 for that triple shielded, gold pated hype that still may not work :)

The other issue is silicon sensitivity...I'm sensitive that way. I prefer the big natural ones to silicon. :cool: So without knowing much about the silicon inside your equipment, the best approach would be to buy cheap cable and test it, if it doesn't work, buy another cheap cable and repeat until you find one that works for you. Its still a cheaper way to go than forking over $200 for that triple shielded, gold pated hype that still may not work :)Point well made and we all hate being ripped off by high-priced cable makers. However, testing a bunch of cheap cables is not the only alternative. Monoprice (http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&style=) has a variety of HDMI cables that appear to be rather well made. When their standard 6-ft cable is $15 and even a 50ft, Gold Plated, 22AWG, Silver-Plated Copper HDMI cable is only priced at $85, it's hardly worth the leg work and time shopping around.

As an aside, I'm having Fios installed in a week and the salesman said that they will run an HDMI cable from the Fios box to the HDTV unit. Mine is a projector and I'll see if the freak at having to run a 35-50' HDMI from the box to the projector.