I installed 1.8 on my PS3 and have been trying to get the VP-50 to pass this to my projector, but can not get it to work. I’m wondering if this is a handshake thing or if I’m doing something wrong.

Whenever I have the 1080P / 24 auto option enabled on the PS3, and rout it to the VP 50, the screen will not lock as soon as I hit PLAY. It then goes black and all other sorts of odd things.

I got to experimenting and re-routing cables to see if something else in the chain was causing problems. When I rout the PS3’s output directly to my projector, it will default to 1080 / 24P (per the information display on the projector). [ I am using the Panasonic 1000U ]

If I re-route cables around the VP and into my receiver (Yamaha 661), the PS3 will default to 1080P/60. It would appear my receiver doesn’t like 1080P/24 off the PS3 either. Normally I have my PS3 and X1 set up to output 1080i / 60 to the VP, then I have the VP set up to output 1080P/24 – 3/2 locked > into my receiver > projector. The receiver accepts and passes the VP’s de-interlaced 1080P/24 output just fine.

I’m guessing that this is a HDMI issue. Anyone else having similar issues, or am I just lucky?

We're all seeing the same thing.

24 in, 24 out is not working on the VP50. ABT/DVDO is working on it.

Per paidgeek, Sony is aware of the PS3 issues. Apparently, there will be a fix with their next firmware update - I am assuming a forced 24 output mode.

Any ideas why it works with my projector then?? Is the problem with the PS3, or the VP?? or combination of both?

The 24hz output with a 24hz input for the VP50 does not work at all. 60->24 works fine. 24->60 works fine.

I don't think there is anything "wrong" with the PS3. I think it has something to do with EDID. If the PS3 does not immediately lock in at 24, it reverts to 60 in it's current configuration.

In my situation, PS3 directly to RS1 locks in at 24. PS3 to AVR to RS1 also locks in at 24. PS3 to AVR to HDMI splitter locks in at 60. I know that I am able to go from 24 out of the VP50 (from 60 input) to AVR to HDMI splitter to RS1 without problems.

The VP50 has no problems locking into the 24 output of the PS3, but it cannot send it on at 24 currently.

Hope that makes sense.

Yes, that sorta makes sence. I'm an A/V indiot, so it takes time to sink in.

What's EDID?

I am using Ps3 108024P in and 1366 x 768 out.

When i first enabled the Ps3 24P output i too was getting blank screen problems and found that when i played a Br movie the PS3 was outputting different different frequencies for..... loading screen, Movie intros, movie menu and then finally 108024p for the actual movie.

They way i solved this was as the PS3 went through the above loading, soon as i got a blank screen i quickly selected the correct output profile for the VP and did this on every blank screen encountered, about 3 times.

Then reloaded the Br movie and everything was displayed correctly with the correct output.

Don't know if this will help you guy's as you are using 24 in 24 out but i got it working for me!

Shoot,I can't change anything when my screne starts wigging out on me. I'll pull up the menu and then it goes blank and the menue disapears before the screne comes back. I'm not good enough with the display on the machine to remember where everything is either...

My advice is hold tight and wait for the fixes to come. Once the PS3 update comes, you should be able to hook directly into your AVR and have it work. Once the VP50 is fixed, you will be able to use that properly - not sure how fast that is coming.

For now, you should be able to go 24p into the VP50 and 1080p60 out to your projector. In my opinion, this is better than 60->24 from my viewing experience. 24->24 should be the best, but I, like you, cannot get this working presently.

Sony is aware and will provide a fix? This is good news.

DVDO is also working on the issue 24fps passthrough? This is good news.

Shoot,I can't change anything when my screne starts wigging out on me. I'll pull up the menu and then it goes blank and the menue disapears before the screne comes back. I'm not good enough with the display on the machine to remember where everything is either...


You only need to set the main outputs to profile 1 , 2 etc.. eg P1- 60hz out, P2 50hz.

For PS3 i used the front panel and kept pressing profile 1 every time i lost picture.

then when i restarted loading/playback of Br the VP remembered to use profile 1 for all parts of the loading process, with no picture loss.

When i first enabled the Ps3 24P output i too was getting blank screen problems and found that when i played a Br movie the PS3 was outputting different different frequencies for..... loading screen, Movie intros, movie menu and then finally 108024p for the actual movie.


As I've been led to believe, this is caused by the PS3s AUTO setting - since menus and such are encoded at 1080-60, instead of at 24P like the movie, the PS3 is outputting at whatever res is on the disc. When my VP50 output is set at 1080i-60, I have no problem with this. With the VPs output at 1080i-72, the display will jump halfway off the screen when the PS3 begins sending the VP at 24P.

Since my setup works fine with output set to 1080i60, I'm guessing there is as much, if not more, to blame in the VP50 than with the PS3. The PS3 at auto behaves just like my STB set at NATIVE - with that, as I go from SD to NBCHD to CBSHD(?) the stb sends 3 different resolutions to the VP. Luckily, the VP handles the switching well. It just doesn't handle switching from 60 to 24P well, at all resolutions. If the PS3 always scaled output to 24P, then you could setup a profile. If the VP50 handled 24P well, we wouldn't have to.

For now, I'm back to using the PS3 at AUTO, and sending my pj 1080i60 - and fwiw, a pass thru on the VP would be worse in my situation - my pj would need a different memory block for each output of the PS3, as it went between menu and film. (At least, until PS3 implements a forced, constant 24P, which I wouldn't hold my breath for,)

As I've been led to believe, this is caused by the PS3s AUTO setting - since menus and such are encoded at 1080-60, instead of at 24P like the movie, the PS3 is outputting at whatever res is on the disc. When my VP50 output is set at 1080i-60, I have no problem with this. With the VPs output at 1080i-72, the display will jump halfway off the screen when the PS3 begins sending the VP at 24P.

Since my setup works fine with output set to 1080i60, I'm guessing there is as much, if not more, to blame in the VP50 than with the PS3. The PS3 at auto behaves just like my STB set at NATIVE - with that, as I go from SD to NBCHD to CBSHD(?) the stb sends 3 different resolutions to the VP. Luckily, the VP handles the switching well. It just doesn't handle switching from 60 to 24P well, at all resolutions. If the PS3 always scaled output to 24P, then you could setup a profile. If the VP50 handled 24P well, we wouldn't have to.

For now, I'm back to using the PS3 at AUTO, and sending my pj 1080i60 - and fwiw, a pass thru on the VP would be worse in my situation - my pj would need a different memory block for each output of the PS3, as it went between menu and film. (At least, until PS3 implements a forced, constant 24P, which I wouldn't hold my breath for,)

Not sure if we are talking about the same thing. The VP50 does not seem to have any problems on the input side. As long as I have the output set at 1080p60, all the resolutions sent out of the PS3 are handled fine. The output stage seems to be the problem. 24 out seems to work for all types of input except 24 in. There are some sync problems when switching from 60 to 24 on the output side. I guess you are experiencing similar problems with 72i output.

The PS3 "fix" does not help with the VP50 at all. It will help those hooking up to certain displays or receivers. If you are using the VP50, you probably want forced 24 from the VP, not the PS3.

sorrry - too many numbers. gotcha, cal. Guess I was jumping on neonmod's bandwagon, instead. I have nothing that'l accept 1080 24, so nothing to add to that particular discussion. Simply pointing out that 24p input is also broken with at least one other output. - I went so far as to contact DVDO; they "tested it" - my 1080i 72 bug - with their test VP50's output set at 1080i 60. their response was that there was no problem on their system. Turns out they had nothing that would accept 1080i 72, via hdmi, so no way to test it. At least that is what I was told. So who knows - if guys who are paid for it make such errors, I don't feel too stupid.

sorrry - too many numbers. gotcha, cal. Guess I was jumping on neonmod's bandwagon, instead. I have nothing that'l accept 1080 24, so nothing to add to that particular discussion. Simply pointing out that 24p input is also broken with at least one other output. - I went so far as to contact DVDO; they "tested it" - my 1080i 72 bug - with their test VP50's output set at 1080i 60. their response was that there was no problem on their system. Turns out they had nothing that would accept 1080i 72, via hdmi, so no way to test it. At least that is what I was told. So who knows - if guys who are paid for it make such errors, I don't feel too stupid.

I think that they had the same problem with the 24 output. As far as I know, the 1080p48 has always worked fairly well - someone correct me if I am wrong. Just recently, people started getting their 1080p24 capable RS1 projectors, and they realized that the 24 output was not working correctly. DVDO got a hold of a RS1, and they were able to get it working. Now, we have all of the PS3 owners with the new 24 output, so now they have discovered 24 in to 24 out is not working. Now that they have this to work with, I am sure they will come up with a solution. I don't know how common 1080i72 is, so your wait may be longer.

FWIW I cannot get the VP to accept 1080p24 from my htpc.

I am outputting 720p72 to my G70.

1080p60 from the htpc works and looks really, really good, but it sure would be nice to have the extra smoothness that a 24hz signal would provide.

FWIW I cannot get the VP to accept 1080p24 from my htpc.

I am outputting 720p72 to my G70.

1080p60 from the htpc works and looks really, really good, but it sure would be nice to have the extra smoothness that a 24hz signal would provide.


You suggesting that your g70 will accept 1080p24 input?

My 1292 will not (at least not with a moome hdmi card).

I am running 24p in, 48p out with success. PS3 (1080p24p) -> VP50 (1080p48) -> Marantz VP11S1.

I have ran 1080p/24 in and out at 60hz, no problem, not that this means anything to those with 24/24 issues

don't take me the wrong way, but why would anyone want to output 24p?, the VP50 works magic with a 24p input and can output anything you want from it, what internal display scaler could take the 24p and do anything better than what the VP50 does? that would be a tough task

are there actually displays that take 24 in but not 48 or 72 ?

-Gary

are there actually displays that take 24 in but not 48 or 72 ?

-Gary

JVC RS1 is one

are there actually displays that take 24 in but not 48 or 72 ?

-Gary

but Gary - that's my problem. The VP doesn't play nicely at 72Hz output; and I doubt if I'd have any luck collecting from DVDO when it shoots the image off my crt face. :eek: If it would stay put, between 60hz menus and 24p film input, I'd be fine, but somehow, different inputs are giving me vastly different outputs, just as if the VP50 wasn't even there. Maybe in someone's next firmware....

I have ran 1080p/24 in and out at 60hz, no problem, not that this means anything to those with 24/24 issues

don't take me the wrong way, but why would anyone want to output 24p?, the VP50 works magic with a 24p input and can output anything you want from it, what internal display scaler could take the 24p and do anything better than what the VP50 does? that would be a tough task

are there actually displays that take 24 in but not 48 or 72 ?

-Gary


Agreed,

i would wonder what the native refresh rate of the displays are anyway and doubt that they will be 24, so it's going to get converted anyway in the display.

I would output from the VP50 what the native rate of the display is and let the VP do the FRC, IMHO.

I have ran 1080p/24 in and out at 60hz, no problem, not that this means anything to those with 24/24 issues

don't take me the wrong way, but why would anyone want to output 24p?, the VP50 works magic with a 24p input and can output anything you want from it, what internal display scaler could take the 24p and do anything better than what the VP50 does? that would be a tough task

are there actually displays that take 24 in but not 48 or 72 ?

-Gary
Gary,

I thought the whole object of 1080P 24 in / 24 out was to display the actual information that is on the disk? If I set my VP up for 24 input / 48 output, are you suggesting this would be an improvement over 24/24? If so, I’ll try it. I had not tried this yet. I’ve always let the VP de-interlace and scale HD/BR 1080i / 60 input to 1080P/24 output.

Drew, somewhere along the chain the 24p is converted, not matter what you do, these displays take this in and convert it to 48 or 72 or even 60, there is no way anyone could watch actual 24 frames a second, or at least not in my opinion, try it on a CRT projector

yes output it as 47.956 or 71.928 from the DVDO and you will be in business ;)

-Gary

Isn't 24fps actually 48hz? two fields per frame

a1 a2 b1 b2 c1 c2 ... ?

are there actually displays that take 24 in but not 48 or 72 ?

JVC RS1 is one

The BENQ W9000 and W10000 will also accept 24hz in, but not 48 or 72.

Drew, somewhere along the chain the 24p is converted, not matter what you do, these displays take this in and convert it to 48 or 72 or even 60, there is no way anyone could watch actual 24 frames a second, or at least not in my opinion, try it on a CRT projector

24fps would flicker like mad on a CRT, but that isn't a problem with a digital display, where the pixels remain fully on screen until replaced.

I changed frame rate to 24 > 48, leaving the format at 1080P/24……IT WORKS!!! SWEEEEETTTT!!! My god this image is freekin beutifull! I wouldn’t have believed it could get better…. I’ll never get anything done now. My but will be glued to the couch indefinitely….


Hey Gary, my projector does display 1080P/24 straight off the PS3. I tried that yesterday and it worked fine, looked great. Not as good as the VP-50’s output, but still looked great.

I changed frame rate to 24 > 48, leaving the format at 1080P/24……IT WORKS!!! SWEEEEETTTT!!! My god this image is freekin beutifull! I wouldn’t have believed it could get better…. I’ll never get anything done now. My but will be glued to the couch indefinitely….

Unfortunately, this does not work for the RS1. I am guessing your projector accepts 48?

Just to be clear on the problem that I and some others are experiencing. I have an RS1 which accepts only accepts 24 and 60. It displays 24 at 96. It does not accept 48, 72 or others. I have a PS3 which with the recent update outputs the native 24 off the disc. I have a VP50 which can output 24 on 480i, 1080i or p60 inputs, but for some reason cannot output 24 properly from a 24 input.

Thus, I have a device which outputs 24, a display which handles 24, but I cannot currently get the two together. Send 24 from the PS3 to VP50 gets unusable 24 output. Fine, I'm sure DVDO will eventually get it fixed. So, temporarily, I try to hook the PS3 directly to the receiver, and the PS3 outputs at 60. Something in the chain is not allowing the PS3 to recognize that I have a 24 capable display.

Sony is rumored to be going to provide an update - some sort of source-direct or native-rate mode - which at least should let me bypass the VP50 and get it to work. No word on the VP50 fix, which is what we really need.

I’m a little confused with terminology.

I still have the VP’s output FORMAT set to 1080P / 24.
I changed the FRAMERATE to 24 Hz > 48 Hz (locked).

What does that mean?? Is it not still 24 frames per second? What’s this Hz number??

I ask because my projector information display says 1080 24P.

See picture below.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/mdrew/IMGP0106.jpg

Can someone explain this to me?

I’m a little confused with terminology.

I still have the VP’s output FORMAT set to 1080P / 24.
I changed the FRAMERATE to 24 Hz > 48 Hz (locked).

What does that mean?? Is it not still 24 frames per second? What’s this Hz number??

I ask because my projector information display says 1080 24P.

Can someone explain this to me?

I am pretty sure you are outputting 48hz from the VP50. I think that if you set the framerate as you did, it will always display 24 as 48, doesn't matter what you set format to.

No idea why the projector says 24. I agree, confusing.

Hai,

Why would 48 or 72 be a problem ? Its still a multiple of 24 ...

I guess i must be missing something i use 48 as output too and the colorwheel spins down (close to pal i guess) it should not give a different image at 24.

Daniel.

So is the Hz figure actually Frames Per Second then?? This is throwing me off from understanding what's going on.

Drew, what is your projector? does it have HDMI input or just DVI? if HDMI you should be using ypbpr HDMI output colorspace instead of "RGB", I noticed this on your VP50 info screen

everything should be fine on your 48hz output, this is actually preffered IMHO to the 24p output, any multiple is fine, 48, 72 or 96 even

-Gary

So is the Hz figure actually Frames Per Second then?? This is throwing me off from understanding what's going on.

Don't worry about it, it's just your PJ displaying the wrong info.

So long as it appears smooth then you are getting something 24fps based. :)

On my Sony pearl when I feed it 1080p48 it says the input is 1080p50!

But there are no dropped frames or glitches/judder to indicate it isn't actually displaying the 24*x input at some 24*x output.

So I noticed that with my VP-50 and projector the PT-AE1000U, I can't select 1080p24 as the output format. Is this because I'm going thru my receiver?

I still can change the framerate option to 24hz and then have the option for 24hz lock, 60hz lock, etc...

So in my case if I want 1080p24 output would I select 1080p60, framerate 24hz w/ 24hz lock?

Thanks,
Mike

Thanks Gary, I’ll try that. The Projector is a Panasonic 1000U.

I searched Hz and frame rates on that on line encyclopedia. Hz is frequency, or just another way to express Frames Per Second.

I find the menu options for selecting Format and Frame Rates confusing.

So I noticed that with my VP-50 and projector the PT-AE1000U, I can't select 1080p24 as the output format. Is this because I'm going thru my receiver?

I still can change the framerate option to 24hz and then have the option for 24hz lock, 60hz lock, etc...

So in my case if I want 1080p24 output would I select 1080p60, framerate 24hz w/ 24hz lock?

Thanks,
Mike

What you want to do is go to framerate->60hz->24hz locked.
24hz->24hz locked is not working properly.
Once you have done this, you can go to format and select 1080p24 - it will no longer be greyed out, although I don't think you need to, as setting the framerate as above will send out 24hz regardless what you do with the format setting.

If your projector accepts 48hz, I would use framerate->24hz->48hz locked.

If your projector does not accept 48hz, I would use framerate->24hz->60hz
You can try framerate->24hz->23.98hz unlocked, but it seems unstable

What you want to do is go to framerate->60hz->24hz locked.
24hz->24hz locked is not working properly.
Once you have done this, you can go to format and select 1080p24 - it will no longer be greyed out, although I don't think you need to, as setting the framerate as above will send out 24hz regardless what you do with the format setting.

If your projector accepts 48hz, I would use framerate->24hz->48hz locked.

If your projector does not accept 48hz, I would use framerate->24hz->60hz
You can try framerate->24hz->23.98hz unlocked, but it seems unstable

Thanks for the info...

Last night I tried the 24hz->48hz locked and saw some major tearing. Only left it on for a couple seconds as my wife wanted to watch and movie so had to stop playing with the settings.

I've been using the 24Hz->60Hz and things are working pretty good. I'll try to play some more tonight.

Mike

Mike,

If you are seeing tearing, I am wondering if you have 1.04 installed on your VP-50? I use the same projector as you, and I also rout my sources through an AVR after the VP. I can send the 1000U any resolution without judder. The only time I saw tearing was before I installed 1.04 on the VP and 1080P/24.

I am outputting 1080P/24 for all my DVD sources (Oppo 970 / PS3 / X1). I have my SD satellite receiver outputting 1080P/60.

PS3:
Input – 1080P/24
Format – 1080P/24
Frame rate – 24 Hz > 48 Hz (locked)
Input De-interlacing > Locked 3:2 (I haven't played with this much, but 3:2 seems to work just fine)

X1:
Input – 1080i/60
Format – 1080P/24
Frame rate – 60 Hz > 24 Hz (locked)
Input De-interlacing > Locked 3:2

970:
Input – 480i/60
Format – 1080P/24
Frame rate – 60 Hz > 48 Hz (Locked) (24 had combing)
Input De-interlacing > Film mode

Sat Receiver:
Input - garbage
Format – 1080P/60
Frame Rate – 60 Hz > 60 Hz (locked)
Input De-interlacing > Auto

Mike,

If you are seeing tearing, I am wondering if you have 1.04 installed on your VP-50? I use the same projector as you, and I also rout my sources through an AVR after the VP. I can send the 1000U any resolution without judder. The only time I saw tearing was before I installed 1.04 on the VP and 1080P/24.

I am outputting 1080P/24 for all my DVD sources (Oppo 970 / PS3 / X1). I have my SD satellite receiver outputting 1080P/60.

PS3:
Input – 1080P/24
Format – 1080P/24
Frame rate – 24 Hz > 48 Hz (locked)
Input De-interlacing > Locked 3:2 (I haven't played with this much, but 3:2 seems to work just fine)

X1:
Input – 1080i/60
Format – 1080P/24
Frame rate – 60 Hz > 24 Hz (locked)
Input De-interlacing > Locked 3:2

970:
Input – 480i/60
Format – 1080P/24
Frame rate – 60 Hz > 48 Hz (Locked) (24 had combing)
Input De-interlacing > Film mode

Sat Receiver:
Input - garbage
Format – 1080P/60
Frame Rate – 60 Hz > 60 Hz (locked)
Input De-interlacing > Auto

I definitelly have 1.04. I wonder if its becuase I didn't select the Output Format as 1080P/24? I still had it selected as 1080P/60.

Actually I wonder if it could have just been another glitch. I noticed my receiver still thought the PS3 was outputing 7ch audio when watching a movie last night that was only 5ch. I ended up toggleing the power my VP50 and receiver and then Audio was detected properly again. (Never had issues like this before the VP50)

Mike

I definitelly have 1.04. I wonder if its becuase I didn't select the Output Format as 1080P/24? I still had it selected as 1080P/60.

Actually I wonder if it could have just been another glitch. I noticed my receiver still thought the PS3 was outputing 7ch audio when watching a movie last night that was only 5ch. I ended up toggleing the power my VP50 and receiver and then Audio was detected properly again. (Never had issues like this before the VP50)

Mike

As I stated before, I do not think the settings in the format tab make a difference, only that it is 1080p. The 24, 48, or 60 framerate are entirely dependent on your settings in the framerate tab. You can look at the display with the info screen to verify.

As for your second point, I sometimes lose audio at the beginning of the movie. I use that quick power off and on with the VP50 to acquire sync. This only seems to occur with 24 output.

It seems that 24 and 48 output still have their issues. 48 seems to be doing better overall.

As I stated before, I do not think the settings in the format tab make a difference, only that it is 1080p. The 24, 48, or 60 framerate are entirely dependent on your settings in the framerate tab. You can look at the display with the info screen to verify.


I guess I was just supprised by one of the photo's mdrew posted. It showed that when he was output 1080p24(from format) and selecting 24hz->48hz framerate his projector status showed it was receving a 24p signal.

When I was playing around last night, my projector (the same as mdrew), still showed that it was receving 1080p60.

I guess I was hoping to be able to reproduce what mdrew was seeing. We were both using the PS3, both using the VP50, both using the Panasonic PT-AE1000U. Both connected to a receiver (not sure if they are the same, mine is a Denon AVR-4806, with 1080p upgrade).

When I have it on a 60Hz output, the projector displays 1080 / 60P. The projector's specs says it accepts all the different frame rates, including 48 Hz. While the display may in fact be incorrect, I'm not convinced that's what is going on. I wonder if the VP isn't fooling it somehow??

Also, try changing the format to 1080P/24. I think the tearing you are seeing will go away. I'm quite sure this makes a difference. One way to do a quick check is to run the Judder test bar pattern at different formate/frame rate settings. It's pretty apearent when the projector doesn't like one.

With the framerate set at 24hz->48hz locked, try changing the format among the various 1080p choices - 24,48,50,60. See what the info screen on both the VP50 and your projector show. I am curious as to what you find.

For the record, the RS1 shows 47.96 when you feed it 24hz. However, this is known to be correct as the RS1 doubles the 24.

I made a quick inquiry with DVDO about this issue before reading the thread here.... It was suggested that going to 24Hz -> 23.98Hz (unlocked) would work around this.

I've not tried it yet... hope this helps until the PS3 and/or VP50 updates roll out.

With the framerate set at 24hz->48hz locked, try changing the format among the various 1080p choices - 24,48,50,60. See what the info screen on both the VP50 and your projector show. I am curious as to what you find.

For the record, the RS1 shows 47.96 when you feed it 24hz. However, this is known to be correct as the RS1 doubles the 24.

Funny you should suggest that; I did that last night.

When I change frame rates, the projector display does not change from whatever format is selected. When I change formats, the display changes, however, when I select 1080P/25, it shows 1080P/50. All other formats display correctly re: 1080P/24/50/60. I can not get the projector to display 1080P/48, no matter what changes I make to the VP50.

There are differences in the timings of the 1080p60 and 1080p24 "Formats", I'm guessing this is what the Pany is identifying with the OSD.

The various framerates alter some of the timings (but not all) to output a different Hz like 24, 48 or 60.

Different displays have different tolerances for these altered timings giving you either perfect image, tearing/judder or blank screen/out of range message.

Using 23.98Hz Unlocked will give you a picture (if the display works with 1080p24) but you will have dropped frames as the output isn't locked to the incoming framerate.

My Sharp LCD TV only accepts 1080p60 @ 60 and 1080p50 @ 50, whereas my Sony Pearl PJ accepts 1080p60 @24, 48, 50 or 60 and 1080p24 @ 24 or 48. I think... there is one of those combos that doesn't work but it varies based on whether the input in 60 or 24fps. :confused:

As I stated before, I do not think the settings in the format tab make a difference, only that it is 1080p. The 24, 48, or 60 framerate are entirely dependent on your settings in the framerate tab. You can look at the display with the info screen to verify.

This is incorrect. You need to change both the frame rate and the format resolution.

This is incorrect. You need to change both the frame rate and the format resolution.

You are probably right, but I am able to get it working sometimes when it is set wrong, and it doesn't always work correctly when it is set right.

I have been experimenting with this on my RS1. I have cycled through various framerate and format combinations. I cannot reliably reproduce the same findings, but I am able to leave the format set - at say 1080p60, then change framerate to 24 locked, and the info screen shows output at 24. I change the format, and it still shows it is outputting 24. However, sometimes the picture is garbled, sometimes it is fine.

It definitely takes the display longer to sync with a 24 input vs 60. If I make any changes while there is video playing, I usually have to cycle power off and on to the VP50 to get any sync at all when dealing with 24hz output.

A little update after playing around this some more tonight.

PS3 outputting 24hz. I tried using 23.98 unlocked again. It actually worked pretty well. I noticed one brief stutter over the whole movie. Paused, chapter skipped with no loss of audio. No tearing. I have had problems with this when I tried in the past. I'll have to try a few more movies before I can definitely say this "temporary fix" is truly usable.

Changed around format settings with framerate set at 23.98 unlocked. The VP50 continued to output 23.98 for all settings with normal looking video, verified on my RS1 info screen as receiving 23.98 (displays 47.96 as the input). Not sure if this is the way it is SUPPOSED to work, but that is what I am seeing.

So after playing with getting 48hz output working with my Panasonic PT-AE1000U, I have to set the display format to 1080p24, framerate to 24hz->48hz locked and then I get perfect output. If I keep the format 1080p60 and try framerate 24hz->48hz, then I get major tearing.

So now I have 2 output profiles that I can switch between depending on if I'm playing a game vs watching a movies with the PS3.

Profile 1: (Game) Format - 1080p60, Framerate 60hz->60hz locked, if blu-ray movie played it is also setup for Framerate 24hz->60hz.

Profile 2: (Movie) Format 1080p24, Framerate 24hz->48hz locked.

Now with my remote I just need to set it up so when you select watch Blu-Ray it selects Profile 2 and when it selects "play ps3" it select "Profile 2". I'll probably get this going sometime this week.

A little update after playing around this some more tonight.

PS3 outputting 24hz. I tried using 23.98 unlocked again. It actually worked pretty well. I noticed one brief stutter over the whole movie. Paused, chapter skipped with no loss of audio. No tearing. I have had problems with this when I tried in the past. I'll have to try a few more movies before I can definitely say this "temporary fix" is truly usable.

Changed around format settings with framerate set at 23.98 unlocked. The VP50 continued to output 23.98 for all settings with normal looking video, verified on my RS1 info screen as receiving 23.98 (displays 47.96 as the input). Not sure if this is the way it is SUPPOSED to work, but that is what I am seeing.

I just tried the same thing - after no success with 24Hz Locked, using 23.98 at least got me a picture and proper audio. I did notice tearing on the bottom 1/6th of the screen every so often, but it would disappear within 5 to 10 seconds of appearing. Until DVDO comes out with a permanent fix, this seems to be doing the trick as a workaround for PS3 24Hz out -> VP50 24Hz out -> RS1 setups. Talk about a nice picture!

I just tried the same thing - after no success with 24Hz Locked, using 23.98 at least got me a picture and proper audio. I did notice tearing on the bottom 1/6th of the screen every so often, but it would disappear within 5 to 10 seconds of appearing. Until DVDO comes out with a permanent fix, this seems to be doing the trick as a workaround for PS3 24Hz out -> VP50 24Hz out -> RS1 setups. Talk about a nice picture!

I noticed the tearing and a bunch of stutters the first time I tried it a couple of weeks ago, so I gave up after about 10 minutes. I am having better luck with this unlocked mode now. Last night, I had a couple of brief stutters, and an about 30 second period where the picture seemed "jumpy" - don't know how to exactly describe it. Looked beautiful the other 99% of the time.

Why don't you guys just use 24 > 48 Hz? I think it looks amazing. Is there a benefit to going direct?

Why don't you guys just use 24 > 48 Hz? I think it looks amazing. Is there a benefit to going direct?

The RS1 does not accept 48hz, we can only use 24hz.

Oh.....sorry.

I had another question, sorta related, but sorta not....

I’ve been watching so many HD and BR movies, that I haven’t messed with SD for a while. Last night I popped in an SD DVD that I ordered a while back. (Robin Hood, BBC series that I bought on a whim)

When I had the format set to 1080P / 24 and frame rate set to 60 > 24 Hz, the film looked gorgeous, but every once in while it would sort of ‘stutter’. I change frame rate to 60 > 48 and this did not fix the problem. For both of these settings I also had the input de-interlacing set to 3 / 2 locked. I changed this to Film, but the problem continued. I tried Video, but still the problem persisted. So then I tried changing format to 1080P / 60 and the frame rate to 48Hz and left the input set to Film. This cured the odd ‘stutter’ problem, but at a sacrifice in picture quality. 60Hz didn’t really yield any gains over 48Hz.

Any ideas what’s going on?? What do you all have your SD / DVD inputs set at??

I have the following sources PS3, HD-A1, and HR10-250 HD-TiVo into a Sony Ruby via HDMI through Monoprice swither. I'd like to eliminate judder by replacing the switch with a video processor that outputs 1080p48. I'd run that over my HDMI cable with a DVI dongle on the end and into the DVI input on my Ruby (at 1080p48).

I'm wondering if anyone has successfully done this using the VP50? I'm looking for the least expensive approach right now. I'm also assuming that if I buy and use an AVR like the Onkyo 805, I'd run the sources into the AVR send its output to the VP50 and then on the Ruby. Does anyone know if the Onkyo does a straight pass-thru of the video signal? Does it accept a 1080p24 source and send it on as is?

Oh.....sorry.

I had another question, sorta related, but sorta not....

I’ve been watching so many HD and BR movies, that I haven’t messed with SD for a while. Last night I popped in an SD DVD that I ordered a while back. (Robin Hood, BBC series that I bought on a whim)

When I had the format set to 1080P / 24 and frame rate set to 60 > 24 Hz, the film looked gorgeous, but every once in while it would sort of ‘stutter’. I change frame rate to 60 > 48 and this did not fix the problem. For both of these settings I also had the input de-interlacing set to 3 / 2 locked. I changed this to Film, but the problem continued. I tried Video, but still the problem persisted. So then I tried changing format to 1080P / 60 and the frame rate to 48Hz and left the input set to Film. This cured the odd ‘stutter’ problem, but at a sacrifice in picture quality. 60Hz didn’t really yield any gains over 48Hz.

Any ideas what’s going on?? What do you all have your SD / DVD inputs set at??

I usually output 1080p60 (Blu-ray) to my VP50 from the PS3. I output 1080p24 from the VP50 and also see some sort of stutter in most movies. I am not so sure that the VP50 60Hz to 24Hz conversion is working as well as everyone claims. Still it is better than watching the movie with 3:2 pulldown, but it is not perfect. Have anyone else experienced this with the PS3. I will be trying the 1080p24 input -> 1080p48 output next time i watch a Blu-ray movie. I hope that works better, because once you notice the stutter it is impossible to get your mind off it!

Also I get some minor tearing issues with 1080p24 output (from both 1080p60 and 720p60 inputs). I mentioned this in the VP50-thread a while back. Other users were not seing any tearing, but I see it clearly. It is on the bottom of the screen, about 1 inch from the border (my screen is 123 cm high). It can be masked by overshooting the image onto the black border around the screen og by using the "blanking" function on the Pearl projector. Still it is a bit frustrating that this is still not working 100%.

BTW. I am using firmware 1.04 and have the Sony Pearl projector.

NORLL - if you haven't already, go out and grab the new PS3 firmware. I did last night, then tried a bit of Flyboys on BD - seemed to look better, tho I also wanted it to look better - so who knows. I believe it fixed my shift problem, so at least that is to the good.

Running 1080p24 set to auto, outputting 1080i72 from VP50 to my crt.

I usually output 1080p60 (Blu-ray) to my VP50 from the PS3. I output 1080p24 from the VP50 and also see some sort of stutter in most movies. I am not so sure that the VP50 60Hz to 24Hz conversion is working as well as everyone claims. Still it is better than watching the movie with 3:2 pulldown, but it is not perfect. Have anyone else experienced this with the PS3. I will be trying the 1080p24 input -> 1080p48 output next time i watch a Blu-ray movie. I hope that works better, because once you notice the stutter it is impossible to get your mind off it!

Also I get some minor tearing issues with 1080p24 output (from both 1080p60 and 720p60 inputs). I mentioned this in the VP50-thread a while back. Other users were not seing any tearing, but I see it clearly. It is on the bottom of the screen, about 1 inch from the border (my screen is 123 cm high). It can be masked by overshooting the image onto the black border around the screen og by using the "blanking" function on the Pearl projector. Still it is a bit frustrating that this is still not working 100%.

BTW. I am using firmware 1.04 and have the Sony Pearl projector.

I agree completely - the 60Hz to 24Hz conversion is not perfect. I have both an A1 and PS3 and output 1080i60 to the VP50. The VP50 outputs 1080p24 to an RS1. On nearly every HD/BR movie I view I typically get 1 or 2 brief episodes of stutter. I know of another AVS member with the same complaints. I've sent email to Aaron at DVDO but have not heard from him recently. I've not had any tearing, though.

In regards to the new FW for the PS3 - I have it but can't use 1080p24 because my AVR won't pass it.

I agree completely - the 60Hz to 24Hz conversion is not perfect. I have both an A1 and PS3 and output 1080i60 to the VP50. The VP50 outputs 1080p24 to an RS1. On nearly every HD/BR movie I view I typically get 1 or 2 brief episodes of stutter. I know of another AVS member with the same complaints. I've sent email to Aaron at DVDO but have not heard from him recently. I've not had any tearing, though.

In regards to the new FW for the PS3 - I have it but can't use 1080p24 because my AVR won't pass it.

I, too, am noticing this. Initially thought it was my X360 hddvd on but am now noticing it more with regular dvd's and bluray. I don't ever remember seeing this on the iScan HD (but different PJ) or the VP30 (initially there but I think an early update fixed it). But now several months now and I'm noticing it more and more on the Vp50. Pj is a Sony VPL VW100 (Ruby) via DVI. I didn't stress it since I noted the last firmware made note of improved frame rate conversion. Unfortunately I can't update the firmware until I purchase a UBS-Serial convertor.

I'm hoping the folks at DVDO can iron things out.

I have the Rs1 as well. Tried the PS3 at 24 and VP50 at 23.98. Got picture but the audio was way out of sync. No matter how I moved the audio sync, it would never sync up (not even close). So I'm back to PS3 at 60 and VP50 at 60.

Hopefully the firmware update will fix this.

For all the trouble I've gone through on getting a purely 24Hz pathway from my BDs to my RS1, does it even matter? If the PS3 is outputting 1080p60 at a 3:2 cadence, does the process of creating this signal inside the PS3 alter the PQ in any way or is the picture left completely untouched? I'm aware of the basic mechanics of the 3:2 pulldown process, but I'm asking if the way it's specifically done in the PS3 alters PQ at all.

I ask because I want to know what the benefit is of using a pure 24Hz progressive pathway from disc to projector. If the PS3 creates a 1080p60 signal at 3:2 cadence, and then the VP50 takes that and just restores it to the original 1080p24 signal with no PQ effects, why all the trouble to try to get this 24Hz pathway to work? Aside from the fact that we paid several grand for the VP50 and $600 for the PS3, and both companies said it would work.

For all the trouble I've gone through on getting a purely 24Hz pathway from my BDs to my RS1, does it even matter? If the PS3 is outputting 1080p60 at a 3:2 cadence, does the process of creating this signal inside the PS3 alter the PQ in any way or is the picture left completely untouched? I'm aware of the basic mechanics of the 3:2 pulldown process, but I'm asking if the way it's specifically done in the PS3 alters PQ at all.

I ask because I want to know what the benefit is of using a pure 24Hz progressive pathway from disc to projector. If the PS3 creates a 1080p60 signal at 3:2 cadence, and then the VP50 takes that and just restores it to the original 1080p24 signal with no PQ effects, why all the trouble to try to get this 24Hz pathway to work? Aside from the fact that we paid several grand for the VP50 and $600 for the PS3, and both companies said it would work.

I for one have to rely on the VP50 to output 24Hz as my relatively new Pio AVR does not pass 1080p24. For me and several others the 24Hz conversion is not perfect. So, currently we are all in a bind. Outputting 24p from the VP50 is imperfect and it does not appear to pass 24p well.

I for one have to rely on the VP50 to output 24Hz as my relatively new Pio AVR does not pass 1080p24. For me and several others the 24Hz conversion is not perfect. So, currently we are all in a bind. Outputting 24p from the VP50 is imperfect and it does not appear to pass 24p well.

I'm not talking about VP50 24Hz output issues in general, I'm asking a question specifically about the need for the PS3 to pass 1080p24 to the VP50 and then have the VP50 pass that along to eventually arrive at your projector/display.

Since I upgraded to v1.04 on the VP50's firmware, I've had zero issues with 24Hz output except for when it comes to the 24Hz input from the PS3 (the only source that I have that can send a 24Hz picture).

So what I'm really asking is if it's necessary for the PS3 to pass 1080p24 vs. 1080p60 - i.e. if the product from the VP50 is 1080p24 that the RS1 likes, who cares what the input is (assuming PQ to be equal)?

Excellent question.

I would surmise the only answer to that is that the act of conversion from a 24fps signal to 60hz would somehow degrade the PQ ever so slightly and that keeping the 24fps pathway pure and unaltered.

The PS3 has to convert it to 60hz then the VP50 has to uncovert it back to 24fps. Redundant and needless, yes.

I may be incorrect here, but this is how I understand it….

When you select 1080P/60 from the PS3 or even HD/DVD player, they pull 1080i/24 data off the disk, apply a 2/3 cadence to get 1080i/60, and then de-interlace it to output 1080P/60. Obviously, the VP 50 will do a better job at this than the players (or maybe not).

When you select 1080P/24 output from the PS3, it pulls the raw 1080P/24 data off the disk and sends it along its merry way to the VP50. By setting up the VP50 to output some different format, like 1080P/48 or 60, the VP is working with more data that is on the disk.

Prier to 1080P/24 output of my PS3, I thought my HD/DVD’s looked better. Not any more. The BR disks look better now. Well, at least I THINK they do. My mind may be playing tricks on me……

Ok, so per this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10226090&&#post10226090) post in the PS3 thread over in the BR forum, 1st gen BD players read the 1080p24 signal off the disc, interlaced it and created a 3:2 cadence to get 1080i60 for processing, and then de-interlaced it at the end for 1080p60 output. Newer players, including the PS3, read the 1080p24 info off the disc and process it at full 1080p resolution the whole way through.

If that's the case, then for owners of video processors it shouldn't make a difference whether your PS3 is outputting 1080p24 or 1080p60, you'll get the same picture out of your processor if you're outputting 1080p24.

For the time being I'm going back to turning off the 1080p24 output from the PS3 until the PS3/VP50 issue is resolved.

Ok, so per this (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10226090&&#post10226090) post in the PS3 thread over in the BR forum, 1st gen BD players read the 1080p24 signal off the disc, interlaced it and created a 3:2 cadence to get 1080i60 for processing, and then de-interlaced it at the end for 1080p60 output. Newer players, including the PS3, read the 1080p24 info off the disc and process it at full 1080p resolution the whole way through.

If that's the case, then for owners of video processors it shouldn't make a difference whether your PS3 is outputting 1080p24 or 1080p60, you'll get the same picture out of your processor if you're outputting 1080p24.

For the time being I'm going back to turning off the 1080p24 output from the PS3 until the PS3/VP50 issue is resolved.

I don't know. I was running 60p to 24p for a while. I preferred 24p to 60p with the new PS3 firmware. I think something is being lost with letting the PS3 do the 24p to 60p conversion.

I have been using 24p to 23.98 unlocked lately, and I think it is a tossup whether this or 24p->60p gives the best overall picture amongst all of the options at this time.

60i -> 24p is my choice on the HD DVD side.

I just read that the XA2 also goes directly from 24p to 60p. I had thought that it went through the 60i step as the other Toshiba players do. I will have to do some more experimenting. Has anyone compared whether 60i or 60p is a better output from the XA2 before letting the VP50 convert it back to 24p?

I guess by the time we figure this all out, the XA2 and PS3 will be outputting 24p without issues, and the VP50 24->24 issue will be resolved.

I don't know. I was running 60p to 24p for a while. I preferred 24p to 60p with the new PS3 firmware. I think something is being lost with letting the PS3 do the 24p to 60p conversion.

I have been using 24p to 23.98 unlocked lately, and I think it is a tossup whether this or 24p->60p gives the best overall picture amongst all of the options at this time.

60i -> 24p is my choice on the HD DVD side.

Just so I understand you, you're saying that right now you prefer to send 1080p24 to the VP50, and then output 1080p60 from the VP50 to your projector on the BD side?

The more I use 24Hz->23.98Hz unlocked, the more the intermittent tearing bothers me. I started playing with the the unlocked output, and 23.94Hz unlocked doesn't give me any tearing, but it does result in dropped frames every several minutes, which is just as annoying as the tearing. For now I'm using the regular 1080p60 out of the PS3 and converting it to 1080p24 with the VP50. Personally I can't see any discernible difference on my RS1 between the PQ of 24Hz out from the PS3 and 60Hz out since either way I'm outputting 1080p24 from the VP50.

AFAIK, the process of going from a 24Hz source to a 60Hz signal (assuming you're starting with a progressive source) is very basic, and only involves the repeating of identical frames in an alternating 3:2 cadence. Given the processing power in both the PS3 and the VP50, I find it hard to believe that either of the two would be better or worse at such a simple process, and it really shouldn't matter what the PS3 outputs, since in either case it's dealing with the full, progressive frames straight off the BD.

I just read that the XA2 also goes directly from 24p to 60p. I had thought that it went through the 60i step as the other Toshiba players do.

The XA2 decodes the data as 1080i60 and then deinterlaces it to 1080p60 with its Reon processing chip.

Has anyone compared whether 60i or 60p is a better output from the XA2 before letting the VP50 convert it back to 24p?

I use 1080i60, but that has less to do with the VP50 interaction than it has to do with the XA2 being more frustrating to use when set for 1080p output. For some reason, the player has more HDMI handshaking issues at that resolution and will no longer retain your place on the disc if you switch to another video source and then back to the XA2. It restarts the disc if you do that in 1080p, but stays in place with 1080i. Picture quality was otherwise the same as far as I tested.

The XA2 decodes the data as 1080i60 and then deinterlaces it to 1080p60 with its Reon processing chip.

That is what I had thought, but Robert from VE posted that the XA2 was doing it differently, or at least that is what I thought he said.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10850830&&#post10850830

Just so I understand you, you're saying that right now you prefer to send 1080p24 to the VP50, and then output 1080p60 from the VP50 to your projector on the BD side?

Yes, that is correct. 24->60 seems to give the most stable, sharp picture, aside from the slight judder associated with this framerate.

With 60->24, I will get an occasional stutter - maybe 2-3 times a movie, lasting less than a second. The picture also did not look as sharp somehow. Could not tell whether 60i or 60p was better from the PS3

With 24->23.98, I initially noticed the tearing as you describe, but I have not seen it lately - don't know why. I do get a couple of stutters here and there.

That is what I had thought, but Robert from VE posted that the XA2 was doing it differently, or at least that is what I thought he said.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10850830&&#post10850830

I'm not sure what he meant, but I'm confident that the player decodes as 1080i and deinterlaces downstream.

Yes, that is correct. 24->60 seems to give the most stable, sharp picture, aside from the slight judder associated with this framerate.

With 60->24, I will get an occasional stutter - maybe 2-3 times a movie, lasting less than a second. The picture also did not look as sharp somehow. Could not tell whether 60i or 60p was better from the PS3

With 24->23.98, I initially noticed the tearing as you describe, but I have not seen it lately - don't know why. I do get a couple of stutters here and there.

Huh, that's interesting - I have yet to have an issue with 60->24 in my setup. That just goes to show how sensitive all this "hi-tech" stuff is to small variances in configuration. Despite the wonderful picture that HDMI can deliver, it makes me miss the old days of component video and coax 5.1 audio when things just worked, no questions asked.

Huh, that's interesting - I have yet to have an issue with 60->24 in my setup. That just goes to show how sensitive all this "hi-tech" stuff is to small variances in configuration. Despite the wonderful picture that HDMI can deliver, it makes me miss the old days of component video and coax 5.1 audio when things just worked, no questions asked.

Just to be clear, ALL of the modes look fantastic on the RS1. Any differences are pretty minor. When I am engrossed in the movie, I really don't notice any problems.

I'm not sure what he meant, but I'm confident that the player decodes as 1080i and deinterlaces downstream.

Would you like to tackle the issue of whether HD DVDs are truly encoded as 24p or 60i? That seems to be another point of contention right now.

Would you like to tackle the issue of whether HD DVDs are truly encoded as 24p or 60i? That seems to be another point of contention right now.


boy is it!

Would you like to tackle the issue of whether HD DVDs are truly encoded as 24p or 60i? That seems to be another point of contention right now.

I'm not even sure why that's still an argument. The HD DVD insiders, including several video engineers, have confirmed time and again that the data on the disc is encoded as 1080p24 frames. That issue of the repeat-field flags that people are so hung up about sounds like semantics to me.

But whatever.... I'm not an engineer, so I'll let them fight it out if they want to.

The XA2 decodes the data as 1080i60 and then deinterlaces it to 1080p60 with its Reon processing chip.

I use 1080i60, but that has less to do with the VP50 interaction than it has to do with the XA2 being more frustrating to use when set for 1080p output. For some reason, the player has more HDMI handshaking issues at that resolution and will no longer retain your place on the disc if you switch to another video source and then back to the XA2. It restarts the disc if you do that in 1080p, but stays in place with 1080i. Picture quality was otherwise the same as far as I tested.

I don't find that the XA2 loses its place on the disk with 1080p output.

Maybe it depends on your precise connections. My XA2 HDMI output goes to a Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver. If I switch from the HDMI input with the XA2 to another HDMI input and back, the place on the disk is not lost. All the output from the Pioneer receiver goes through a PureLink 1x5 HDMI Distribution Amp to the HDMI input of a Sony VW-100 projector. If I switch the Sony projector to another input, say DVI, then back to the HDMI input with a the XA2 I still don't lose the place on the disc. My XA2 has the latest FW upgrade v1.6.

Have you tried different arrangement of your HDMI connections? It is possible that the Pioneer receiver I have is sending a signal back to the XA2 telling it that it is still connected.

I don't find that the XA2 loses its place on the disk with 1080p output.

Maybe it depends on your precise connections. My XA2 HDMI output goes to a Pioneer VSX-84TXSi receiver. If I switch from the HDMI input with the XA2 to another HDMI input and back, the place on the disk is not lost. All the output from the Pioneer receiver goes through a PureLink 1x5 HDMI Distribution Amp to the HDMI input of a Sony VW-100 projector. If I switch the Sony projector to another input, say DVI, then back to the HDMI input with a the XA2 I still don't lose the place on the disc. My XA2 has the latest FW upgrade v1.6.

Have you tried different arrangement of your HDMI connections? It is possible that the Pioneer receiver I have is sending a signal back to the XA2 telling it that it is still connected.

Admittedly, I haven't tried this with the latest firmware, so maybe something has changed in that regard. My XA2 is connected by HDMI directly to the VP50, which is in turn connected to my projector. If I were to switch on the VP50 to any other input and then back to the XA2's HDMI, I was losing my place at 1080p but not with 1080i.

Perhaps your receiver is maintaing its HDMI handshake if you switch it there but the VP50 doesn't? Or perhaps this is no longer a problem on the current firmware.

Admittedly, I haven't tried this with the latest firmware, so maybe something has changed in that regard. My XA2 is connected by HDMI directly to the VP50, which is in turn connected to my projector. If I were to switch on the VP50 to any other input and then back to the XA2's HDMI, I was losing my place at 1080p but not with 1080i.

Perhaps your receiver is maintaing its HDMI handshake if you swith it there but the VP50 doesn't? Or perhaps this is no longer a problem on the current firmware.

OK. I tried plugging the XA2 directly into my VP50 (the output feeds through a Gefen 6x2 HDMI switcher to the DVI input of my VW-100). It still holds the point on the disc. But some wierd things sometimes happen with the picture. If I switch from a component 1080i input (Comcast Motorola DCT3416 Cable Box) to the XA2 HDMI 1080p the picture is strangely zoomed by about 4x. I have to switch to another HDMI input (480i) then back to get it to display correctly. If the XA2 is in 1080i this problem does not occur.

So I agree with you: there is some strange interaction between the XA2 in 1080p and the VP50, but it does hold the position on the disc.

Try the latest upgrade of the XA2 (and VP50 if you haven't yet).

I have just received the new Sony BDP-S1E Blu-ray player. This is the new european version of the BDP-S1. Unfortunatly the VP50 will not accept the 1080p24 output from this player. It gives no image at all, only a blue flashing screen on the projector when HDMI handshake is incomplete. All other resolutions seem to work fine.

I was not able to get 1080p24 output from the Sony BDP-S300 to work with the VP50, which is feeding 1080p24 to my projector.

If I switch the Sony to either 1080i or 1080p60 output it will work.

I just noticed something. The color space off the PS3 when 1080/24P is selected is 444. Why?? I thought native color space was 422? It is 422 when 1080/60i is selected as the output.



http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y231/mdrew/IMGP0106.jpg

I was not able to get 1080p24 output from the Sony BDP-S300 to work with the VP50, which is feeding 1080p24 to my projector.

If I switch the Sony to either 1080i or 1080p60 output it will work.

Are you able to go from 1080p24 from the Sony, and 1080p60 out from the VP50?
We know there is an issue where 1080p24 in and 1080p24 out of the VP50 does not currently work. Using 23.98 unlocked from the VP50 is a temporary fix.
Or does the VP50 not like the 1080p24 output from the Sony at all?

I just noticed something. The color space off the PS3 when 1080/24P is selected is 444. Why?? I thought native color space was 422? It is 422 when 1080/60i is selected as the output.

Blu-ray YCbCr is 444, HD DVD is 422 as far as I know.

Are you able to go from 1080p24 from the Sony, and 1080p60 out from the VP50?
We know there is an issue where 1080p24 in and 1080p24 out of the VP50 does not currently work. Using 23.98 unlocked from the VP50 is a temporary fix.
Or does the VP50 not like the 1080p24 output from the Sony at all?

I have 1080p/24 from my ps3 to the VP50 and then I have 1080p/60 outputted to my LCD, so this works fine for me. My LCD doesn't accept 1080p/24, so I can't test the VP50's 1080p/24 out, but it does seem like others have spotted the issue before.

-Splints

Are you able to go from 1080p24 from the Sony, and 1080p60 out from the VP50?

In fact, that does work.

We know there is an issue where 1080p24 in and 1080p24 out of the VP50 does not currently work. Using 23.98 unlocked from the VP50 is a temporary fix.

Thanks, I'll try that.

Blu-ray YCbCr is 444, HD DVD is 422 as far as I know.

They're both 4:2:0. Anything beyond that, the player is upsampling.

They're both 4:2:0. Anything beyond that, the player is upsampling.

Would it be more accurate to say that Blu-ray players OUTPUT 4:4:4 and HD DVD players 4:2:2?

Let us know how 23.98 unlocked works for you. Initially, I had problems with this - stuttering, tearing - very brief episodes. Lately, it has been working perfectly. I have not changed anything in my system, so I don't know what is going on.

Or does the VP50 not like the 1080p24 output from the Sony at all?

From the BDP-S1E the VP50 will not accept the 1080p24 at all.

Would it be more accurate to say that Blu-ray players OUTPUT 4:4:4 and HD DVD players 4:2:2?

That's a function of the players that could be adjusted by firmware or changed in different models.

For example, the HD-A1 intitially output 4:4:4 over HDMI, but something in their implementation caused colorspace problems for some users so they switched to 4:2:2 with the first firmware update.

I'll have to verify, but I thought the PS3 was 4:2:2 when 1080i/60 output was selected, and it is only 4:4:4 when 1080P/24 is selected.

Guys,

I can’t seam to get the Pirates of the Caribbean movies to work with the PS3 set to 24P output. I have the 1.9 firmware installed and these two movies are the only ones of dozens that are giving me trouble.

I can play through all the previews, up to the beginning chapter right after the pirating warning chapter. As soon as it gets to the next chapter, it just stops. I can still bring up the VP-50’s menu, but the rest is black.

If I play these movies in 1080i, they play just fine. I can even play them in 1080P/60 just fine. Any ideas what in the heck is going on? I’ve spent the better part of an hour messing with the VP’s in/out settings to no avail. I have no troubles with any other Disney movie…..

Let us know how 23.98 unlocked works for you. Initially, I had problems with this - stuttering, tearing - very brief episodes. Lately, it has been working perfectly. I have not changed anything in my system, so I don't know what is going on.

Well, I wish I knew what you haven't changed to make things work well :D

I have continued to have issues with any kind of 24Hz -> 24Hz through the VP50 in unlocked mode. No matter what I set the unlocked frame rate to, there's either frequently dropped frames or frequent tearing - a couple times during a movie would be ok, but a couple times every 10 minutes is just downright annoying.

Right now I have my PS3 (firmware v1.90) outputting 1080p60 and my HD-A2 doing its max 1080i60, with the VP50 converting both to 1080p24 for my RS1. I still get dropped frames here and there with the PS3, but not nearly as frequently as with the pure 24Hz unlocked pathway.

This whole issue is killing me...and making me think of dumping my VP50 and shelling out the extra dough for a Lumagen Radiance. I'll gladly pay a significantly larger amount of money for something that has been 1) exhaustively tested and 2) works as advertised. I'm certainly not saying that I know for a fact that the Lumagen fits those requirements, but I'm willing to spend the dough to find out - I'm starting to feel left out in the cold here with the VP50.

I'm starting to feel left out in the cold here with the VP50.


So are a lot of us.

It would be very reassuring if DVDO could give us an update on whether they are working on a fix for this. They have not posted on this forum for a few months, to my knowledge.

Well, I'll have to revise my previous statement. I am once again seeing the brief stutters - not frequent, but a few times per movie. Also, there seems to be a lipsync issue with the 23.98 unlocked output that I cant seem to resolve. Oh, and I do have both the VP50 and Radiance in my rack right now.

You RS1 guys can't except 48. I can with my projector because it excepts 48fps. Unfortunately, for some odd reason, the POTC movies will not play at all with the 24P output. I was hoping someone could tell me why.

I have continued to have issues with any kind of 24Hz -> 24Hz through the VP50 in unlocked mode. No matter what I set the unlocked frame rate to, there's either frequently dropped frames or frequent tearing If you're running in unlocked mode you will get dropped or repeated frames. That's inherent in unlocked mode as the output frame rate is not locked to the input rate. There is no output frame rate you can set the VP50 to that will not do this. The rate at which this happens will depend on the exact input frame rate, the particular VP50 unit you have, and the output frame rate you've set.

You should not get tearing in unlocked mode (or locked mode either, for that matter), so there would appear to be at least one or two bugs left.

- Dale Adams

If you're running in unlocked mode you will get dropped or repeated frames. That's inherent in unlocked mode as the output frame rate is not locked to the input rate. There is no output frame rate you can set the VP50 to that will not do this. The rate at which this happens will depend on the exact input frame rate, the particular VP50 unit you have, and the output frame rate you've set.

You should not get tearing in unlocked mode (or locked mode either, for that matter), so there would appear to be at least one or two bugs left.

- Dale Adams

I'm aware that unlocked mode will yield dropped or repeated frames - I wasn't originally aware that it would be with such a high frequency. It's almost pointless to offer unlocked vs locked is unlocked yields such unstable results. Obviously if locked mode worked, I'd be using that - v1.04 didn't fix that problem as promised, so we're left trying to implement work-arounds with $3K video processors and getting less than desirable results.

In locked mode with 60Hz in to 24Hz out, I still do get stutters from dropped or repeated frames, but not nearly as often as in unlocked mode. I would definitely agree with you that that there are still a couple bugs left.

I'm aware that unlocked mode will yield dropped or repeated frames - I wasn't originally aware that it would be with such a high frequency. It's almost pointless to offer unlocked vs locked is unlocked yields such unstable results.Unlocked mode is not pointless, although I can see that you might think that if you're using it for a purpose it was never intended to provide. It's not really there to be used as a fallback for bugs in other modes. ;)

- Dale Adams

Look at the main VP50 thread.
Josh@DVDO has now stated that this problem will be addressed after the release of the VP50Pro

So I guess the real question is whether or not it will be fixed in the first release of the VP50 Pro.

- Dale Adams

I know this seems the wrong thread, but will all this 24 fps experimentation also apply to the VP30?