I picked up an new scaler with the sdi input with a panasonic modded sdi dvd player and I am just floored by the picture that is so clean and noise free,
I am now saving up for an Oppo modded dvd player to see how much better the oppo outputs a signal ,
my hd crt and pj never had a better picture , now this looked better on "MY" display so I don't want to turn this into a pissing match between other members like in another thread so Please don't bash,
I was using an atlona scaler before and with the composite in and scaled out to 720p was really nice but the extron sdi connection is a bit better,
Now that I got a new scaler at a good pirce I have the Atlona sitting around so I might decide to sell it cheap so I can start saving for my Oppo modded player. ;)

I assume that you are comparing this to a 480i signal sent from your player to your scaler. Which player were you using (and which scaler)?
The reason I ask is because in your post you state that you had "composite in and scaled to 720p" ... did you mean to say "480i via HDMI" instead of "composite"?
Finally, which new scaler are you using now? Again I am asking since the new scaler may be better than the Atlona you had before and could've contributed to the differences.

So ...
old setup: 480i via HDMI to Atlona and out at 720p?
new setup : 480i via SDI to a scaler comparable to the Atlona and out at 720p?

These would indeed be comparable setups to draw conclusions on. If not, maybe you could fill in the erroneous details in my assumptions?

Sankar: You took the words right out of my mouth bruddah.

How do you know the improvement isnt from switching scalers?

How did you feed 480i via HDMI? What player did you have to do that? Does the Atlona scaler even have HDMI inputs?

Atlona only recently introduced a scaler that accepts HDMI IN, this is it:

http://www.atlona.com/product.php?productid=17182&cat=0&page=1

So, if you dont have this exact model then your comparison isnt remotely accurate. Taking any form of video input be it S video, composite or component and converting it to HDMI out is not even close to the raw 480i HDMI signal IN then scaling it to HDMI out.

Please elaborate as this is a hot topic and accurate information is crucial.

This issue has been discusses many times the consensus seems to be :

1) with SDI you are sure in what you get, with hdmi you are still not 100% you are getting the pure thing or they did stuff before the output.

2) most who compared find (with the same scaler/player) the sdi better than the hdmi out. Meaning i guess that we feel that most hdmi outputs are not untouched.

3) point 2 is a feeling mostly we have no proof in most cases.

Daniel.

I wouldn't go quite as far as labelling it a "consensus" view ;).

I fear that I have not come across too many independent tests of comparables in this case of 480i HDMI vs 480i SDI. Mostly conjectures based on a few statements, I'd say.

I myself did test these two configurations in my setup (have reported this a couple of times so I won't repeat it here) and concluded that I could not see any differences that I'd label as significant. However, my test is ALSO incomplete since it can hardly be labelled as scientific, unbiased and/or blind. Furthermore, its only one single person's observation (which may be enough for me but should not be conclusive for others) - hence my interest in the shootout with many AVSers that is due to take place soon. I may well find myself leaning back towards SDI when we have a more controlled test ... who knows! :)

By the way I suppose that you are referring to the colorspace issue when you refer to things done to the signal?

Let me clarify some things:
I was using an atlona scaler before and with the composite in and scaled out to 720p via component video
I was talking about the atlona that was scaled from composite to component video,
Now the hdmi was a direct connection to my crt hdtv set to 720p which with an Oppo 970 HD using the player's scaler,
The Panasonic RP56 player with an SDI output was used with an extron scaler
with SDI in and component video out.
So I hope this clarifies my OP , and like I said before it's what "I saw that made a difference" and I like what I saw , and I don't want to start any feuds or anything
in that nature i was just sharing what I saw... :rolleyes:

lou: There is no doubt in my mind (or anyone elses mind) that a composite DVD signal scaled to component through a Atlona will look FAR FAR worse than an SDI signal scaled through an Extron scaler to component video out.

First off, the composite signal is the single WORST signal you can use and the best scaler in the world cant turn crap into gold. If its originating via composite, you are dead before you start.

Secondly, using the internal scaler of the Oppo to upconvert to 720 defeats the purpose of using HDMI. The signal originates as 480 and the internal scaler of a $150 DVD player cannot hold a candle to a $1000 external scaler.

Finally, Usng the Extron with SDI in would unquestionable result in the best picture quality regardless of how you output it. So what you are seeing is no surprise and I (we) are in full agreement with your results.

The misleading and completely inaccurate heading of this thread is what is confusing and upsetting because what YOU saw with your SDI image was a 480i output signal scaled with an excellent external scaler. What you saw with the HDMi signal was a processed signal run through the DVD's scaler which is arguably the single worst scaler you could use.

So in the end, your heading is false and the HDMI image you saw was not in any way a fair representation of what can be expected of the raw 480i signal being processed through a high quality external scaler.

Well then please forgive my not knowing too much since this is my real first scaler and I am learning the ropes and figured it will not hurt to share..

Well then please forgive my not knowing too much since this is my real first scaler and I am learning the ropes and figured it will not hurt to share..

Don't worry about it, i still think my posting makes sense and is on topic. The point is that while hdmi and sdi could look the same on the same setup you can never be sure since you don't know what happend before it reaches the hdmi port. In your case (as pointed out) we have a good idea why the results are more extreem than others have seen. But its simply not always easy to explain why people are seeing better images or why not. So in the end upgrading to sdi is allways a gamble until you already know (by reading this area for example) the hdmi in a device you want to mod is not 100% clean.

Greetings,

Daniel.

Don't worry about it, i still think my posting makes sense and is on topic. The point is that while hdmi and sdi could look the same on the same setup you can never be sure since you don't know what happend before it reaches the hdmi port. In your case (as pointed out) we have a good idea why the results are more extreem than others have seen. But its simply not always easy to explain why people are seeing better images or why not. So in the end upgrading to sdi is allways a gamble until you already know (by reading this area for example) the hdmi in a device you want to mod is not 100% clean.

Greetings,

Daniel.
Fully agree. You hit the nail on the head! Since HDMI could carry a wide variety of signals (all the way from 480i to 1080p and at different timings!!), one needs to be careful in the settings one uses. A lot may have been done to the original signal in the conversion process that degrades it. With SDI as I understand it there are no such complications and you consistently get 480i (576i for PAL?).

In short, the differences between the "best" and "worst" settings using HDMI could be substantial whereas there may be no such differences using SDI. The "best" setting on HDMI for NTSC SD-DVDs (480i/60Hz) may lead to a very similar image (and this is what the shootout beever is pulling together is trying to determine) as SDI, but anything less WILL lead to an inferior image.

Since not every dvd player has the ability to send 480i via HDMI (for example the Oppo 981 does not while the Oppo 970 does!) one needs to be careful in the choice. It is not enough to assume that buying the more expensive player with HDMI and buy a good scaler will suffice. This is a case where the cheaper dvd player may be preferable!!

I think (but am not sure) that a similar situation may exist with HD-DVD players as well. The A2 can send a 480i signal via hdmi for SD-DVDs, but I do not know about the A20 and XA2 (they may also be able to, but I have not gotten confirmation on this yet from other posts)

This issue has been discusses many times the consensus seems to be :

1) with SDI you are sure in what you get, with hdmi you are still not 100% you are getting the pure thing or they did stuff before the output.

2) most who compared find (with the same scaler/player) the sdi better than the hdmi out. Meaning i guess that we feel that most hdmi outputs are not untouched.

3) point 2 is a feeling mostly we have no proof in most cases.

Daniel.

3), Oppo 970 via 480i HDMI vs Oppo 981 at 480i SDI, both into the VP50:

http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/oppocompare/981_4.jpg
http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/oppocompare/970_1.jpg
http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/oppocompare/970_12.jpg
http://www.custom-ht.com/photos/oppocompare/981_14.jpg

-Gary

Those images are tired and in question, hence the reason for an independent shootout by people and AVS Forum members who do not stand to profit from the sale of SDI players..like Gary.

I do not accept those photos as anything more than a salesman looking to move his product at the expense of discrediting another.

We will see if SDI output is superior to HDMI at 480 in short time, until such time I suggest forum members accept any photos or comments from anyone with a grain of salt.

Cigarguy, Ericbee, beever, Notanewbie, whoever you are I can't read what you are saying because you are ignored, so it is pointless, you might as well fart in the wind

-Gary

Well I always thought that what looks best to me is what I should go for,
so if I prefer the sdi then that's my choice and preference then that's what I am going to stick with.
Like my audio system even if I use a mid grade avr as a pre/pro which I am presently doing
many audio purists will say that is just silly while I like the way it sounds in "My home"
Is what is most important to me.
Now I never knew sdi existed until I read about it here in this forum and I like it alot,
So because I prefer one over the other isn't the most important choice be up to me and not others,
So in conclusion all I can say is try it and if you like it then stick with it and if not then go with what you like... :rolleyes:

Lou, no one is telling you that you cant like SDI or you must like component. Your thread implied that SDI looked better than HDMI when if fact, SDI looked better then:

1. Video through an old Scaler
2. Scaled DVD composite video
3. HDMI upscaled through the DVD player

What it did NOT prove was that the SDI picture looked better than an identically scaled 480i HDMI signal. Thats all any of us are saying.

Certainly you are entitled to like one over the other and your opinion of the SDI signal being superior to the upampled HDMi signal and upscaled composite signal is not only agreed by 100% of the forum members but, a fairly obvious result based on the conditions, components and connections used.

Now Lou, if you are at all interested in knowing for yourself what image looks better and since you have all of the components needed to make a fair comparison...

Take the HDMi signal from the oppo and set it to 480i and run it into the Extron scaler.
NOW, compare the SDI modded Panasonic image and see if it looks the same, better or worse then the HDMI signal. Then, report back to us what you have found and what you see.

I would be fairly certain to bet that you wont be as overwhelmed with the SDI image as you once were or you will be amazed at the image you get from the Oppo when output at 480 through the identical scaler.

Try it and let us know, that is what we are all curious to find out. THX

SDI was great 5 years ago when I first got it. There were no HDMI options then. I think SDI can have a slightly better picture but it's just much easier to use HDMI now. Plus 98% of all the movies I watch now are HD DVD/BD so on the rare time I watch a DVD I usually just let my player scale it or my VP50.

Well i think there are several examples where hdmi vs sdi has been shown to have a clear winner in _that_ combination and well .... thats it in the end doesn't help you alot unless you have the combo tested. And just because its not always true doesn't make it just taste the images posted by Gary (who i have no reason to not trust) show a clear result.

But .... ill come back with this !! sdi on the same machine can't be worse than the best hdmi and my vp50's 4 hdmi's are filled so i have to use my sdi port. Using sdi on your scaler will leave you one extra hdmi port open for other devices and that you can not dispute :).

Daniel.

Using sdi on your scaler will leave you one extra hdmi port open for other devices and that you can not dispute :)

Yes ... one cannot dispute that. Would you consider this a compelling reason to get sdi over "another" hdmi? ;)