Hello Everyone,

I am new to the forums here, and I have been gone for a while for work, but I am building a new Home Theater in my new house and I need advice on a pre/pro and amp(s) for my speakers. I have read so many posts about Aerial Acoustics speakers here lately, and it actually make me feel much better about my purchase. I have taken posession of 4 LR5's and a CC5 (thanks Soundscape for the Trade-Up), and have almost all of the consturction completed in my home for my Entertainement room. (a modified sun-room that is 15X19 with a semi-vaulted ceiling that starts at 8' and ends at 10' at the rear of the room.)

My budget went out the window on the room when the contractors identified a foundation issue, so my budget for my electronics has been lowered to $10,600 for a processer and amplification. My speakers, again are 4 LR5's and a CC5 with a Def-Tech Trinity as my sub. My projector is "supposed to to be" a Runco, still pending a deal on it. My dvd player is a Pioneer Elite DV-79Ai.

I have read great things about Anthem Separates, Parasound Halo, Arcam, and Sunfire. I was supposed to go with with a Lexicon, but my friend who works for Harman is really unsure of the future of his compnay so he recommended I look elsewhere... Anyway... Can anyone help guide me to what would sound best with these speakers while maintaining my budget. Thank you all again for the help.

GinaKim

Given what you have there, (very nice sounding speakers btw) my off-the-cuff suggestion might be to get the pre-processor you want, where I might suggest the Halo and Anthem as two very nice options, and then maybe start with the newly introduced Outlaw 7900 amplifier (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/7900.html). Those speakers need some serious power, and with that amp you could still swing the Halo Pre-pro and watch for developments with new amplifiers. Selling the Outlaw amp would likely be much easier than selling a pre-pro/amp combo if you want to step up later. The higher power Anthem amps would also serve you well. I would really not want to go with less than ~300W @ 4 Ohms/ch for the power-hungry Aerials. Of course others will have different oppinions and suggestions you should also consider.

Gk

You have a PM about an awesome Theta promotion. get a CB III and an intrepid 5 channel amp for your budget.

I'm using a Meridian Processor and Proceed/Levinson power for my Aerial system. Fantastic synergy IMO.

I was able to squeeze a Meridian 861, Levinson 336 and Proceed HPA3 for a little over your budget. Audiogon is your friend! :)

Does it make sense to buy a preamp right now, just before hdmi 1.3 preamps start coming to market?

How about a Denon AVP-A1HDCI and four used Parasound HCA2200 MKII amps off the used market. 800 watts stereo, into 1 ohm loads. ;)

Can anyone help guide me to what would sound best with these speakers while maintaining my budget. Used Cinepro or various pro amps (QSC, Crown, etc.) would give you the best sound / $$$ ratio. Aerials like a lot of power and these amps will deliver. With your custom room you can have the amps out of the listening space so that would eliminate any heat or noise problems.

What will be your priority in this room? Will it be mostly theater or music?
It really does make a difference as some pre-pro's do movies better than music and vice versa.

Are you looking for new or are you open to used which do save a ton.

Well, orignally I was looking for new material and then I learned about Audiogon... Nice place... lol

The room is going to be used mostly for home theater so that will be my main focus. I have a 2 channel set-up al ready, so this will be my new project
.

If it is used for mainly movies than that opens it up a lot.

Do you have to have the HDMI switching or can you get by without it?

I have tried a lot of pre-pro's and my main focus is movies as well. Let us all know what your main concerns are that would have you satisfied.

You have wonderful speakers so matching them well for a 10K amp/pre combo would make them really sing.

Actually I am in So. Cal as well and my Halcro dealer is in the area too. If you do the Halcro SSP-80 I am sure we could probably be in the ballpark and it would be New.

I did do a review of all the pre-pro's I have owned in the past and here is a copy below:

I am a little late to the discussion here but this is what I have owned (that I remember) in no particular order:

Halcro SSP-100

Proceed AVP

Proceed AVP-2 +6

Meridian 561, 565 and 568

Meridian G68 XXV

Lexicon DC-1 and MC-1

Anthem AVM-20

ADA Cinema Rhapsody Mach II and Mach III

ADA Cinema Reference Mach II

Arcam AVR-300 used as a receiver and pre-pro

Parasound Halo C2

I know there are a couple of more I am forgetting but that is what years of heavy drinking will get you.

Here is the breakdown of my thoughts. I am gonna try to keep it to the top 3 in each category:

The best music pre-pro's:

(1) Proceed AVP-2: By far my favorite music pre-pro for both analog and digital signals. The smoothest most natural music presentation I have heard from a surround pre-amp and will best a lot of 2 channel pre's. A solid upgrade over the original AVP which was a excellent performer in it's own right. The proceed derived surround music mode is the best I have heard in that it is natural sounding and bests Meridian's Tri-Field IMO. While not the best for movies if I were a 75% music 25% movie guy this would probably be the one I keep.

(2) Meridian G68 XXV: A musically satisfying pre and the best implementation of Tri-field I have heard. It is better than the Proceed AVP-2 for movies but does not have the pitch perfect mids and separation of the AVP-2 for music. If I did not hear the AVP-2 then this would be hard to beat for music.

(3) Halcro SSP-100: The SSP-100 is different from the above 2 as it has a leaner sound to it. It does not have the amount of hours on it that the 2 above had so burn in is still continuing and it is actually becoming more fleshed out but from what other have told me I probably need another 100 hours. I doubt that it will sound as good as the AVP-2 musically even after 2000 hours but it is not as far off as that may sound. Were the Halcro does match or better the AVP-2 musically is integrating all 6 of my speakers and subs seamlessly. I like to test out a pre-pro by listening in total darkness and trying to pinpoint my speakers and listen for the transition from my mains to the subs. With the Halcro my speakers disappear as does the sub and that is truly incredible. Now if it only sounded as smooth and full bodied as the Meridian G68 or Proceed AVP-2 it would rocket to the top.

An honorable mention has to go to the ADA pre-pro's as they do a lot of things right. For what they can be bought for on the used market make them a steal. A pre-pro I could definitely live with.

The best movie pre-pro's are as follows:

(1) Halcro SSP-100: By far the best movie processor I have ever owned by a long shot. The way it makes my speakers disappear for music makes it incredible for movies. I have never heard a processor that can place you in the middle of the action like the Halcro. The soundscape totally surrounds you like nothing I have ever experienced. My surrounds have taken on a new life and it has the ability to place effects in such a precise location that it is surprising at first. The subs blend surprisingly well and at first I thought they needed to be turned up until they were called upon. I am really shocked how the Halcro can sound so much better than the Meridian and Proceed for movies and TV shows. I was always partial to Meridian and Lexicon when it came to movies but the Halcro is in another dimension.

(2) ADA Cinema Rhapsody Mach II: This is a tough one as there are many I like at this spot but the ADA won out due to it's tremendous bass performance. The Mach II, Mach III and Cinema Reference Mach II sound very similar which is to say they all sound great. I chose the Mach II as it represents a better value for the price. In this spot I could easily have any of the Lexicon's or Meridian's as they are great movie processors. The Anthem, Proceed, Parasound Halo and Arcam are all very capable as well but the ADA just takes the bass foundation to another level.

(3) After the top 2 I would go in this order. Now keep in mind that this only takes movies performance into consideration and music does not play a part here. None of the other ADA pre's are gonna be listed here as they perform just as well as the Mach II:
Meridian G68, Lexicon, Meridian 561, Anthem, Halo C2, Proceed AVP-2, Arcam AVR-300, Meridian 568.
The 3rd preamp could easily be jumbled around. The Lexicon probably has the best software and I would suspect in the right system would outperform anything except the Halcro for movies (for music it is like pouring sand in your ears from all the grain) The Anthem and Meridians also have excellent software but the Meridians I feel benefit from much better hardware.

Overall best for movies and music that suits me:


(1)The Halcro off all the pre-pro's listed is the best for me as I am about 70% movies and it still floors me after about 3 months. While I wish it sounded more like the AVP-2 for music it's movie performance I could never give up. It is hard to say a $10,000 pre-pro is worth it but I don't regret it one bit. To be honest I could have saved a couple of grand and just got the SSP-80 since the LCD screen and line doubler of the SSP-100 is of no use to me and from what I have heard they sound identical. I am anxious for the LPCM upgrade that will hopefully come soon. Even without the upgrade though I could not imagine owning another pre-pro (If anyone from Halcro is reading this then I meant to say I want it ASAP and am considering buying your most hated competitors pre-pro out of spite :cool: )

(2) The Proceed AVP-2 performance with music makes you want to listen to more music. Even though I am more of a movie guy the AVP-2 does not stray too far from the other pre-pro's (except the Halcro) for movie performance. Overall the AVP-2 is a great all around performer and at the current used prices of $2,500 to $3,000 might be considered a deal.

(3) Meridian G68 XXV is a good all around performer and it would be my second choice if it was a better value at around $7,500 tops full retail. but with it's price tag of nearly $10,000 I felt it was not worth it. I really have enjoyed Meridian over the years and while the G68 XXV is better than the 568 it is not $3,500 better. I was going to put it lower but when I thought about it knew that it belongs here. Having been a fan of Meridian for such a long time I was disappointed, not that it is not a great piece but I really expected more for the price. I feel it would have represented a better deal if they would have waited for it's release until they could implement HDMI with at least LPCM or 1.3. I don't know about everyone else but for me $10,000 is a price point where it better do something very special to justify the price, the G68 does not deliver.

(4) I have to put the ADA Cinema Rhapsody Mach II here as it represents a fantastic value when you consider it has a average used price of about $1,200. Even at it's $5,000 retail value it sounds like a $5,000 pre-pro should. It has a great balance of music to movie performance and I really enjoyed using it.
If price was my main concern I could happily live with the ADA just as long as I didn't hear the Halcro first.

What about the Cinenova 7-channel amp?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_13_1/earthquake-cinenova-power-amplifier-3-2006-part-1.html

I'm saving up for this amp. :o

600w @ 4ohms into seven channels is just incredible.

I've got the Proceed AVP2+6 with a Cinenova Grande Amp........outstanding synergy indeed.

I concur with Mjaudio's list.....the Halcro has the newer technology and more connectivity. The Proceed AVP2+6 is much older but it has all the Mark Levinson no.40 internals, and they are extremely hard to get on 'gon.

good luck!

Is Proceed no longer supported by updates? I have a friend who has the AVP combo and steered me away. He had several DTS movie titles which would lock up the processor and force you to restart the unit.

Be wary of what you see on audiogon/videogon - what can seem at first like a "classic" can sometimes be an un-resellable boat anchor.

- Steve O.

Correct. Proceed (madrigal) is now under Harmon International, and there are no more updates available...all Proceed products have been discontinued for a while now.

However, they still have a very good tech support for it.

The Proceed AVP and AVP2 are completely different animals. The AVP2 (and AVP2+6 which has the additional multi-channel input board) has all the internals of the Levinson no.40....same buffers, same piping, same DSPs and Co-Processors, etc.... The original AVP does not.

If one is lucky enough to run into an AVP2, it is usually snatched pretty quick as they are one of the most coveted pieces on the used market due to their performance vs Price factor. The AVP2+6 units are just very rare and sell within minutes usually, at a pretty high premium.

If HT is the primary concern, the Halcro SSP is pretty much the king at this point. For overall perfomance in both MUSIC and HT, at the market price, the AVP2 (and AVP2+6) is arguably "pound for pound" the best processor out there still. But you will need external switching capabilities for your video needs.

Hey Gina,

If your interested my friend has a Theta Casablanca III with Extreme dacs for the front L/R Center and subs and standard dacs for the rear. It is on consignment at a dealer near you and the dealer is willing to work out an outstanding deal with a brand new Dreadnaught for very close to your budget.

If you want details just send me a PM as I don't want to give out my friends or the dealers # over the forum post.

I have been doing some reading on the Halcro Processor. I do not think that an SSP-100 is what I need. I am pretty sure an SSP-80 would fit the bill perfectly. Now, I just need to find one for a good price...

However, there is an AVP2 for sale on Audiogon... Oh, how I do love a sale.... ;)

I have been doing some reading on the Halcro Processor. I do not think that an SSP-100 is what I need. I am pretty sure an SSP-80 would fit the bill perfectly. Now, I just need to find one for a good price...

However, there is an AVP2 for sale on Audiogon... Oh, how I do love a sale.... ;)

The AVP-2 is an excellent pre-pro, if you read my review I really liked it a lot.

I have to admit that I am more of a movie guy so the Halcro is what I am planning on keeping for awhile. It does do movies a lot better than the AVP-2 but is a little behind with music.

To be honest with you the SSP-80 would have fit the bill for me perfectly. From what I have heard it sounds the same as the SSP-100. The SSP-100 just adds 1 more HDMI input, the LCD screen, scaler (which is not that good) and from what someone told me more processor power but I don't' know that for sure.

My dealer is in your area for the Halcro so if you decide I am sure you could get a good deal. The Theta is also a great deal and if you ask Steve Bruzonsky or Bulldoggger who are regular AVS contributors who use Aerial and Theta I am sure they would have some good advice for you as well.

Either way most people here are good people willing to help so don't be afraid to ask.

What is this big upgrade for the Halcro? What exactly will it do? (in Laymons Terms please...)

Mjaudio, how do the Proceed and Halcro sound different for theater?

And why am I up so late reading these forums? lol

How do the Proceed and Halcro sound different for theater?

The Halcro for HT creates a very spacious and detailed output experience that can be very thrilling. The AVP2 is very, very good for HT, but I would give the blue ribbon to the Halcro.

For music and SACD, I would give the nod to the AVP2. The Halcro is not far behind when it comes to music, it's just that the AVP2 + 6 is a very special piece with music. If I never heard the Halcro and with my current configuration, I would be very satisfied with the AVP2.

Currently owning both of these pieces, if I had to choose an all in one box and considering your focus is HT and the Halcro has an upgrade path (in theory) for the future, I'd purchase the Halcro. From what I understand, the 100 and 80 have the same processing power and sound identical. MJ Audio has mentioned the differences between the two.

However, I would not rule out the Theta piece. I did not consider the Theta due to it's pricing structure and what I would need to accomplish my personal goals. Steve and a few others have the Arials in combination with the Theta processor and are over the moon with the synergy.

You are spending a substantial amount of money so I would push for in home auditions. If that is not possible, audition your choices and then decide from there. Audio is so subjective and what you like, someone else may not. None of these pieces are dog meat. They are all excellent at what they are designed to accomplish.

Also, you may want to audition the Anthem D2. I listened to this processor at a local dealer and preferred the Halcro.

My suggestion is do not rush into the purchase.

I. I was supposed to go with with a Lexicon, but my friend who works for Harman is really unsure of the future of his compnay so he recommended I look elsewhere...
GinaKim
As someone who has been through the experience of buying a new processor and then having the company go out of business less than a year latter, I would avoid any company with an uncertain future.

Someone just emailed me about a Cary Cinema 11 processor... Anyone know anything about it? Sould I even consider it? He offered it to me for $2100. If it is good, then it may be too good of a deal to pass up. (even though it is not a pretty as the Halcro)

Please give me your thoughts and opinions. Thank you again!

What is this big upgrade for the Halcro? What exactly will it do? (in Laymons Terms please...)

Mjaudio, how do the Proceed and Halcro sound different for theater?

Mozvz stated the differences pretty well and since he currently owns both he should know better than me.

I do prefer the Halcro to any other pre-pro I have owned for movies but the Proceed AVP-2 and Theta Casablanca III are no slouches either. To be fair I have never owned the Theta but from the people I know and have heard from it is excellent from top to bottom.

The upgrade for the Halcro will allow multi-channel PCM to be accepted from the HDMI inputs for the new DTS HD and Dolby Tru-HD that are present on HD DVD's and Blu-ray.
Right now you can connect a HD-DVD or Blu-ray player to the Halcro with only a HDMI cable and enjoy DTS or Dolby Digital but the new sound formats will not pass through the HDMI until after the upgrade.

Keep in mind that the upgrade will not be free as it involves hardware and no one knows when or how much the upgrade will be.

Keep in mind that the upgrade will not be free as it involves hardware and no one knows when or how much the upgrade will be.

To add to this, the cost and date :eek: of the upgrade has yet to be announced by Halcro. Some people may have an idea, but unless you have audio spies at the corporate level or a beta tester, it's still up in the air. Halcro Gate? :p

When I purchased the 80 series, there was a $500 credit issued towards the upgrade when it's available. I am not sure if that credit amount is contingent upon purchasing during specific dates to qualify. Perhaps one of the Halcro dealers can explain what dates the credit would apply on a new purchase past or present tense.

I have never auditioned the Cary. I am sure it's a great piece. However, when anyone is selling a piece of equipment and I am considering a purchase, I always ask them why they are selling and what they are buying to replace the for sale unit. Sometimes that is an answer in itself.

Mozvz stated the differences pretty well and since he currently owns both he should know better than me. \

Mike,

Your sonic memory is quite astute. You nailed it very well in your review IMHO.

Gina I have a Casablanca III I can sell you with extreme dacs for the fronts, center and sub. Standard dacs for the rear and sides. If your interested please PM me.

By thw way help me out guys what time zone is this forum in. I posted at 4:22pm pacific standard time and it shows up as 11:22 pm????????

Someone just emailed me about a Cary Cinema 11 processor... Anyone know anything about it? Comments in my column in the next issue of Stereophile.

badbenzz, sounds like you need to adjust your account's time zone settings. Click on "User CP" in the menu near the top of the page and hunt around the preferences.

Gina I have a Casablanca III I can sell you with extreme dacs for the fronts, center and sub. Standard dacs for the rear and sides. If your interested please PM me.


To take MOZVZ advice, why are you selling this?

my suggestion would be buy a good amp now and a cheaper pre/pro "for the moment". i would do this until the whole hdmi 1.3 has been sorted out and it becomes the norm in pre/pro's. im not stating to buy a cheapie processor... an anthem avm30 will do just fine for movies and music and on the usee market under $2k. i used to own one and found it very good for the money and excellent for movies. wait about a year or so and then jump into a more serious processor. if not, the anthem d2 is an excellent unit and works great with the pio 79 dvd player. i think it is a great value and i found their amps to be very good also for the money. their is definitely better units available, but bang for the buck, anthem is right there. i used to own quite a bit of their equipment and had good experience with it, so i can recommend them from experience.

Gina I am selling it because I replaced it with a Halcro SSP100 for the video switching capabilities thru HDMI

Michael there is no way to change the time from what I could see......the time is GMT Greenwich Mean Time

What amplifier are you using with the newer Halcro? I saw a Theta Dreadnaught I on audiogon for $3000. That seems like a pretty good deal, isn't it?

I am using 4 Linn 5 channel amps, my front stage speakers are activ Akurates. How is the Dreadnaught configured? 5 or 7 channel? But 3k for any Dreadnaught would be pretty good. By the way are you going with 5.1 or 7.1? If you ever want to audition the Halcro you can always hear mine. I'm not to far from you.

Larry

badbenzz---it's in the "Edit Options" page of the user settings. In fact, I just changed mine from Pacific to Central.

Michael........found it thank you very much

Damn! The Theta amp is gone!!! I need to find another Dreadnaught for cheap... anyone selling one? ;)

I have come accross a SimAudio Titan and I ma thinking it may be a good deal.... Does anyone know the diferrence between the Titan and the samllr Aurora? They have the same specs, but they have to be diferrent in some way?

I was supposed to go with with a Lexicon, but my friend who works for Harman is really unsure of the future of his compnay so he recommended I look elsewhere...
GinaKim?? Unsure of Harman or Lexicon?? :eek: Is that because of the recent buyout?

I am using 4 Linn 5 channel amps, my front stage speakers are activ Akurates. How is the Dreadnaught configured? 5 or 7 channel? But 3k for any Dreadnaught would be pretty good. By the way are you going with 5.1 or 7.1? If you ever want to audition the Halcro you can always hear mine. I'm not to far from you.

Larry
I asked this on another thread and a few times before but no one seems to know the answer. Will the Halcro upgrade be able to expand a 5.1 LPCM to 7.1 with DDPLLII? You are running 7.1 right?

Damn! The Theta amp is gone!!! I need to find another Dreadnaught for cheap... anyone selling one? ;)
Maybe you should consider the Intrepid? I have my surrounds and side channels crossed over at 80hz. My front three channels are full range. With the Mcintosh amps I am using you can see how much power, not sure if it is entirely accurate, the speakers are using. My front full range speakers are really drawing power, about 400 watts a channel on bass peaks. However my smaller crossed over speakers are drawing a whopping 25 watts on peaks. The Intrepid will produce 200 watts into 4 ohms. There was on one ebay for 1250.00 and there are used ones on audiogon for reasonable prices. Since you already have a sub, you may not need a lot of power and can create some savings this way. Check out some of the reviews on the Intrepid.

GinaKim, add the Bryston 9b to your list as well. Very pure sound especially with vocals. It's the best souding multi-channel amp that I have used around its price point.

I asked this on another thread and a few times before but no one seems to know the answer. Will the Halcro upgrade be able to expand a 5.1 LPCM to 7.1 with DDPLLII? You are running 7.1 right?

With the Halcro upgrade we have been told it would handle 7.1 LPCM but will it convert 5.1 LPCM to 7.1........ Hopefully :cool:

Fingers crossed

It already converts a bitstream signal from 5.1 to 7.1 over HDMi. I can't imagine it not doing the same via LPCM

It already converts a bitstream signal from 5.1 to 7.1 over HDMi. I can't imagine it not doing the same via LPCM
I am not going to start giving you grief :) but do not assume with electronics that it does what we logically think it should. I keep asking this because I think it is a good idea that Halcro owners express interest in having that ability with 24/96 signals and let Halcro know just in case.My experience is that sometimes small logical things are overlooked. For example the Theta can only expand a 2 channel 24/96 signal to 5.1 channels and not 7.1. It can expand a 16/44 two channel signal to 7.1 just fine. Lexicon can use Logic 7 to expand the 5.1 24/96 LPCM to 7.1 but the DDPL2 will not do it. I would have expected the DDPL2 to be able to handle it. All assumptions.

There are differences between the Titan and the Aurora in the number of Output Device Type Bipolars - 8 per channel for the Titan, and 6 per channel for the Aurora. I have a Titan and it is very musical and powerful. Since I have also had an Aurora, I noticed the difference, although hard to quantify. Where did you see a Titan? Incredible amp. PM me as I know of one for possible sale.
Also in the processor purchasing mode (sold my Lexicon MC-12) and await the new audio processing. Owned the AVP-2 (and AVP and PAV preceding that) and I agree it the best 2 channel (for CD's) processor I have owned. i wouldn't buy anything Proceed today however.

Halcro is near the top of the processor list, but I have not heard anything about the upgrade, but a new Krell S-1000 preamplifier (which will be upgradeable to HDMI 1.3 in November) fits your budget. At $6500 list (and about $1000 for the upgrade) it is BRAND NEW. That leaves about $3000 for an amp and more if you can get the Krell discounted. Should be easy to do with AG.

Looking is alot of the fun, so enjoy that part while it lasts.

Mike