Hello,

Anybody know anything about the new Wilson Audio speakers Definitive will be showing off in their showrrom from 27th June onwards:

"Wilson Audio's world debut of the new WATCH Series and Excess Sub-woofer"

Go to their website http://www.definitive.com/ and look at the ad for Home Theater Experience 15.

Any news on specs, prices and eta would be great,

Best regards,

Paddy

Wilson has been working on new WATCH speakers for a while, since they have needed to match them to the X-2 and other new speakers. Expect to see the new tweeter, the removal of any lead in the cases, and other minor tweaks. Probably not a major upgrade, but possibly a worthwhile one for anybody with a speaker introduced after the X-2.

Well, now I know why there are so many Wilson WATCH products for sale so cheap on Audiogon...

Funny how dishonest people (and dealers even) are when they want to sell something that is about to become obsolete. I enquired on whether one seller thought they would be releasing new Watch products to match the Maxx II, W/P8, etc, and he avoided answering the question, tried to sugar up how they match perfectly with those products already and that basically I should buy them. What a scumbag, LOL...

I also wonder if it is the much anticipated Polaris center channel that has been rumored for years to pair beter with the X-2 and MAXX ll

I have a Wilson XS subwoofer so I wonder if he is making them again. Mine weighs 750 lbs with two 18 inch drivers and stand almost 8 feet tall. Took 6 piano movers to get it from the front of my house to my upstairs listening room.

Is he now calling it "excess". My bet is that is a typo in the ad

OB,

Will you be getting the new center?

OB,

Will you be getting the new center?


The Polaris speaker has been on the drawing boards (as best anyone can say) for several years. If I did any upgrade it would be for the Polaris speaker. The problem however is that this speaker will be much taller than the WATCH center and as a result I would have to reconfigure the front of my room inasmuch as mine is used for 2 channel and MC listening as well as for HT. Thus, the Polaris, as things are laid out now would be in front of my screen.
For HT I am very happy with the WATCH Center and not sure I would consider upgrading to thew next generation WATCH center

Oh nice, I missed their shindigs the last two years. Always a great time and lots of great folks and they do a good job in the setups usually.

Oh nice, I missed their shindigs the last two years. Always a great time and lots of great folks and they do a good job in the setups usually.

Unfortunately I live on the East coast, otherwise I would consider going.

Oh nice, I missed their shindigs the last two years. Always a great time and lots of great folks and they do a good job in the setups usually.

Agree. a real 'first class' organization.

Agree. a real 'first class' organization.

Thanks for the compliments. I work in the Seattle store. I can tell you that I was at Wilson training in Provo last month, even sat in Dave's room and listened to Dave's X-2 system, and as recently as that he was not yet prepared to divulge any info on the new stuff we'll be showing, so it's a secret even to us in the biz :p So those "scumbag" dealers someone referred to earlier no doubt knows less than we do!!! I should also say that if you saw the factory and what goes into making a single pair of speakers, you might even think they undercharge. Maybe.... ;) And also come away thinking that for a guy heading a company making such incredible product, he is about the nicest, most humble man you'll ever have the pleasure of meeting.

Our event this year should be killer. The "Runco Shrine" as we call it will have the VX-55d w/Cinewide w/Autoscope on a huge Cinecurve screen. And though not well known (yet), a 20,000 watt system from a company called "Professional Home Cinema", which was started by lengendary speaker designer Paul Hales will supply the sound. It is a horn-based active system (they also make amplifiers/crossovers). There'll be great Wilson, B&W, Classe, Rotel, Meridian/Faroudja, Paradigm/Anthem, Transparent Audio, Pioneer Elite, JL Audio, Sharp, D-Box, etc. systems as well, and the top dawgs from each company are on hand to speak with the audience. And our folks really do pour their heart and soul into making all the demos as good as can be. Heck, the sales guys who work around the stuff every day are jacked up about it (myself included), because everything is the best of the best and dialed to the 9's! Historically, our event falls on the two hottest days of the year, so if anyone out there is getting married outdoors, having it on the 27th or 28th is a very safe bet :p

I have a Wilson XS subwoofer so I wonder if he is making them again. Mine weighs 750 lbs with two 18 inch drivers and stand almost 8 feet tall. Took 6 piano movers to get it from the front of my house to my upstairs listening room.

Is he now calling it "excess". My bet is that is a typo in the ad
AuraSound, the company who made the 1808 18" drivers for the XS, stopped making them after the XS was discontinued. They now make a driver called the 18-8, which seems to be a direct replacement for the 1808. Maybe Wilson will use the 18-8 in their new Excess sub, thus the pun on the name. ;) :D

http://www.aurasound.com/public/pdf/nrt18-8.pdf

HELLO,

So its now the 27th June - Has anyone got any updates/gossip/photos etc. about the new Wilson Audio Speakers. Also any reviews and/or feedback on the performance of the Professional Home Cinema system?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

IAMPADDY,

Thought I'd chime in since no one has responded for you yet. I was at the Definitive show last night and the new Wilsons were only on static display. It was the new watch center with new wall mount surrounds. The styling of the center channel is exactly the same as the previous model. In the demo they had WP8's, the older watch and duettes as surrounds. Also, the new passive subs with outboard amps. Anthem electronics with a Meridian G08 player. Digital projection Titan 500 for video.

The demo was pretty impressive, the WP8's really stood out on the music clips. They played Brother's Grimm for video which wasn't very impressive audio quality wise. The Wilson rep did a demo with the subs on and then off with a Jill Scott song to demonstrate how seamless the integration could be but in my opinion the demo kind of backfired because there was very little difference with them on or off. Maybe its due to the WP8's having outstanding base on their own, I'm not sure. That was the first time I've heard them. IMO the Maxx 2 system they showed two years ago was far more impressive. They played more show-off style demo material in that demo. I also was late into the room and wasn't in the sweetspot so I'm sure that had something to do with it.

matt

Yeah, they just had the WP8s. I stopped in for a couple of the rooms last night. I am not a fan of Wilson by any stretch, so I don't really have much to say about the WP8 setup. It sounded about what I would expect from wilson, which is not really what I prefer in audio. The bass was nothing to write home about in my opinion (I'm talking quality and realism, not extension and quantity, though it was very well extended pretty deep). The rest, well, sounded like WP8, which depends on your point of view, I'm sure folks here are relatively familiar with those.

The Professional Home Cinema room was NOT my cup of tea at all. If large, LOUD, horn-loaded cinema sound is your reference for good audio (for me, it most definitely is not), then I'm sure it sounded great. Fantastic dynamic range, as you would expect sitting in a small room with almost 20kW of amp power (but class D, blech) and ridiculously potent speakers, but really not at all what I expect for high-fidelity home audio. If you're going for a large auditorium and want that kind of SPL capability, could be a great choice, but otherwise I personally wouldn't come near it with a 10ft pole. I had my fingers in my ears for the last portion of the demo. The bass, by the way, was a messy blob of sloppy low bass. There was a heck of a lot of it, but at least where I was sitting, it was not integrated well and stood out like a sore thumb "Gee willikers, THERE goes the subwoofers."

I wanted to check out the meridian room, but didn't get the chance, instead listened to the 800d, I wanted to hear SOMETHING good before I left, but then they didn't play much music or movies, it was just the Kaleidescape guy talking. Though we did see the Roy Orbison DTS concert DVD, so if you haven't watched PBS at all over the last decade, I suppose that was interesting...

Chris, were they demonstrating the JL Gotham or was it only on display out in the lobby? I wanted to check out the Meridian room too but ran out of time. I peeked in and it looked like it was the Fathom hooked up in that room. Did you go in the smaller Professional Home Cinema setup with the D-BOX?. That one hurt my ears with the Open Range demo. It was only $42K. Man, the Runco projector looked terrible in that room, wonder what the problem was. Didn't want to be a jerk though. I agree, the big system was over the top. It shook my scalp during that casino royale scene. Disappointed in the screen size in that room as well. For the cost it was too small. Two years ago I remember the screen was the width of that room. D-box makes me seasick, I would never buy it. I don't want to feel like I'm at Universal Studios when I'm watching a movie. Random thoughts over...

Chris, were they demonstrating the JL Gotham or was it only on display out in the lobby? I wanted to check out the Meridian room too but ran out of time. I peeked in and it looked like it was the Fathom hooked up in that room. Did you go in the smaller Professional Home Cinema setup with the D-BOX?. That one hurt my ears with the Open Range demo. It was only $42K. Man, the Runco projector looked terrible in that room, wonder what the problem was. Didn't want to be a jerk though. I agree, the big system was over the top. It shook my scalp during that casino royale scene. Disappointed in the screen size in that room as well. For the cost it was too small. Two years ago I remember the screen was the width of that room. D-box makes me seasick, I would never buy it. I don't want to feel like I'm at Universal Studios when I'm watching a movie. Random thoughts over...

I don't know. I don't have the map anymore, but I think I recall that there was a room with JL audio listed, so I suppose so, but not in the rooms I went into.

No I did not go into the smaller PHC room with d-box. I've never necessarily been impressed with Runco's showings, for instance the large PHC room they had the big Runco, but it did not look too well calibrated to me, it seemed like they pushed the color saturation for a more impressive image. I've always been more impressed by showings by Marantz and Sony and the like in previous years, although I missed I think the last two years, so we're talking some time ago.

For instance, in the B&W/Kaleidescape room, the Roy Orbison disc was not being deinterlaced properly, and you could see the combing. You'd think someone at Runco would have noticed something like that and done something about it.

I wanted to check out the meridian room, but didn't get the chance, instead listened to the 800d, I wanted to hear SOMETHING good before I left, but then they didn't play much music or movies, it was just the Kaleidescape guy talking.

It only goes to show how different tastes can run. I sold my 802Ds and passed up an opportunity to move up to the 800Ds at a very nice price (50% off, and only used for a year or so by someone who took pristine care of them) to get the W/P 8s instead. I got tired of the mid-range of the music sounding like it was concealed inside a large cavernous barrel, with chesty, muffled vocals (tubby and canned are two words I've heard thrown around before) recessed too far behind the rest of the sound. I could never hear vocals adequately on the 800 Diamond series speakers, it drove me nuts.

I don't know why your experience was so bad with the Wilson bass, perhaps they were not set up well or you were seated in a bad spot. Mine sound authentic in their reproduction of bass, though sometimes a little boomy because of room reinforcements in the 50-70 Hz region in my listening space. In particular, on a recording like Buster Williams' "Griot Liberte," the bass sounds so real it boggles my mind. It is also well localized all the way down until the point where the signal becomes omnidirectional (unfortunately this is right in the middle of my room peak at 50-70 Hz - I may have to EQ that...). I owe a lot of credit to Sean Turner at HiFiBuysNashiville for the truly incredible job he did setting them up in my dedicated listening room.

To be fair, the biggest problem I'm having is that they reveal everything, so a lot of modern rock and roll effects such as compression, reverb, etc, are transparent as added effects (as they are when I use them myself when playing guitar and/or singing), unlike on a car system or other cheaper system where they are more veiled. The effects become more intrusive when compared to the natural sound of a human voice or the natural sound of an acoustic instrument, because when you hear those on the W/P8s the instruments sound like they are right in the room with you instead of mixed in a studio.

I guess that is what people mean by "revealing." If it was done badly in a studio with lots of effects, that is what you hear. If it was done very well in a decent venue, that is what you hear. A good album for both of these extremes is Smashing Pumpkins "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness." Nothing was badly mixed, but some tracks have a lot of effects, and you hear exactly what those effects are when you listen to them (as well as every decision made to alternate sound elements between either speaker). Then other songs don't have a lot of effects (softer songs like "Galapogos"), and you can hear how real the individual elements sound (such as Corgan's voice) when uncluttered with heavy distortion, reverb, compression and other effects. Electric sound is electric sound though, and IMO, it never quite has the beauty and dimensionality of acoustic instruments, though it is flavorful none the less.

I've heard music in studios (most recently in NBC studios Today Show set before Katie Couric left) and live (too many times to account for). I don't seem to be seeing any overwhelming discrepency between what I am hearing on the W/P8s and what I have heard in similar venues in real life. W/P8s aren't the real event, they aren't perfect, and yes, they are pricey, but I haven't heard anything recently that I felt was better sounding, including anything in the rooms I visited at HE2007 (among those the Dynaudio Confidence C1s - that did sound incredble for the price IMO). If anything, most live venues don't sound as "lifelike" in comparison, if you would consider that a W/P 8 deficit and not a benefit... And studios are studios, they are fairly dead sounding, my room is not treated to sound as dead as a place like NBC's Today Show studio.

I would like to know what speakers you think do bass with more quality and realism, because I will definitely go out of my way to find a demo room that has them. I thank you in advance for posting them. Perhaps it will significantly alter my view of what realistic/quality bass sounds like (I only have my own personal experiences to use as comparisons, including playing bass and normal guitar on amplifiers at home and occasionally in a band atmosphere, as well as any concert and studio experiences I've been an audience member during).

Well like I said, I just did a quick description, my opinion of Wilson is already there, and it wasn't changed last night. I've never cared for what I've heard from their speakers, and that's just my taste. Which is why I said that for folks who like Wilson, I'm sure they would have enjoyed it a great deal. I, however, did not. It was certainly nice, just not my taste that's all. Wilson always ends up sounding like a harsh congested mess to me. They sound absolutely fantastic on sparse music, especially vocals, but they turn into a big mess for me with stuff beyond that, somewhat like Linn.

The best bass I've ever heard was from dynaudio evidence. Revel Salons are also fantastic in this, but they are more textbook overall, which I can appreciate a great deal though I preferred the former.

But all this is beside the point.

The best bass I've ever heard was from dynaudio evidence. Revel Salons are also fantastic in this, but they are more textbook overall, which I can appreciate a great deal though I preferred the former.

But all this is beside the point.

It isn't "beside the point" to me. When someone says that the speakers I am currently using don't have quality/real sounding bass, I want to be able to go out and hear a comparison to decide if I agree, and likewise alter my own opinion of things if I notice a discrepency that I agree with, or at the least to decide that I don't agree. If I don't go out and make a comparison, I won't ever learn if my perceptions are skewed or not (though it could also be the case that there are subtle variations in those perceptions based on age and how that effects hearing, but that would still show through to all live as well as playback arenas).

I've heard the old Salons at Lyric HiFi in White Plains. It has been over a year now, but I don't recall being overwhelmed with any significant sound difference (for the better) in the bass, albeit Lyric HiFi in White Plains NY is a rather small shop so the acoustic situation could have been an issue. I wasn't impressed with the Salon in general in comparison to the 800D Lyric had in the next room at least (and I already know how I feel about the differences between the B&W 800D and W/P 8s), the Salons just didn't sound "lifelike" to me (again, this could be the room more than the speaker). I actually have two Sub 30s for surround media playback, and like them very much.

I'll definitely find some Dynaudio Evidence speakers to demo. I won't have time for another two weeks, but it is going to be at the top of my list now. I was impressed with those little Confidence C1s for the price at HE2007. Unfortunately, hearing the Salons in a demo room again might be hard at this point because of the Salon2s.

It was certainly nice, just not my taste that's all. Wilson always ends up sounding like a harsh congested mess to me. They sound absolutely fantastic on sparse music, especially vocals, but they turn into a big mess for me with stuff beyond that, somewhat like Linn.
.
I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, and I have not heard any Wilsons except the Max 2's at Rocky Mtn Audio Show, and that was not long enough to form an opnion-but my question is what causes some speakers to sound great on music that is "sparse" but fall apart when faced with say orchestal music. I am comparing some Paradigm Signature S4's in my room right now to my Salks and that is one thing I notice about the Paradigm's. When you rachet up the number of instruments playing at the same time the speakers stop sounding good and start sounding bad. They do seem to capture the ambience of the recording (or is it false ambience?)-does that have anything to do with it?

I don't want to sidetrack this discussion, and I have not heard any Wilsons except the Max 2's at Rocky Mtn Audio Show, and that was not long enough to form an opnion-but my question is what causes some speakers to sound great on music that is "sparse" but fallapart when faced with say orchestal music. I am comparing some Paradigm Signature S4's in my room right now to my Salks and that is one thing I notice about the Paradigm's. When you rachet up the number of instruments playing at the same time the speakers stop sounding good and start sounding bad. They do seem to capture the ambience of the recording (or is false ambience?)-does that have anything to do with it?

It could be a dynamic range issue with the amplifier and not necessarily the speaker, i.e. an underpowered amp for the speaker. It could also be specific recordings, etc, or other things, not necessarily the speaker.

It could be a dynamic range issue with the amplifier and not necessarily the speaker.You mean not enough power? I am running them with 300 watts a channel ATI which I would think would be potent enough-unless it is other issues. I am listening to the same recordings. I will continue to mess with it and may take some mseasurements.

You mean not enough power? I am running them with 300 watts a channel ATI which I would think would be potent enough-unless it is other issues. I am listening to the same recordings. I will continue to mess with it and may take some mseasurements.

You posted "very quickly!" I corrected my incomplete thought and added a statement about the amp "possibly" being underpowered.

It could also be room positioning of the speakers, listening position. It could be that there is not enough room treatment (slap echo and multiple early reflection issues can cause these kinds of problems to a significant degree). If I think of more I'll post them.

Also, make sure you remove whatever speaker you aren't listening to at the time, placing one speaker next to the other speaker when playing music can cause sound issues as well, much like a room boundary will.

Queue,

If you were referring to my opinion on the bass, maybe I wasn't very clear. I thought the bass sounded very good with the WP8's alone. My point was that they were trying to demo the new subs and I think blindfolded it would be tough to tell if they were on or not. There was definately more extension but maybe the fact that there wasn't much more output with the subs engaged that threw me off. For me, with a two channel setup, the subs didn't seem like they'd be worth the extra cash. Of course 7.1 channel would be a different story.

Queue,

If you were referring to my opinion on the bass, maybe I wasn't very clear. I thought the bass sounded very good with the WP8's alone. My point was that they were trying to demo the new subs and I think blindfolded it would be tough to tell if they were on or not. There was definately more extension but maybe the fact that there wasn't much more output with the subs engaged that threw me off. For me, with a two channel setup, the subs didn't seem like they'd be worth the extra cash. Of course 7.1 channel would be a different story.

No, I appreciated your post (as well as Chris Wiggles post), I was mainly interested in describing my own experience with my W/P 8s and music in general as well as getting info on what speakers I should demo to see if I notice a large difference in bass quality/realism between those other speakers and the W/P 8s.

It just surpised me to see someone say that about the W/P8 bass when listening to them at a Wilson dealership (Chris, not you). I initially set mine up myself before the dealer came to voice them and I too experienced a disconnection between the top half and bottom half of some bass notes that made the bass sound bad. Once the dealer had voiced them that disconnection disappeared and the notes became one connected, localized note. I wanted to state that there might be a possibility of trouble in the setup (perhaps with the new subs in place they had problems with setting up everyting to sound good at the same time).

I would love to know what people thought of the Duettes as surround speakers for the W/P8s, as those would work excellent in my current listening room/HT situation.

It isn't "beside the point" to me. When someone says that the speakers I am currently using don't have quality/real sounding bass, I want to be able to go out and hear a comparison to decide if I agree, and likewise alter my own opinion of things if I notice a discrepency that I agree with, or at the least to decide that I don't agree. If I don't go out and make a comparison, I won't ever learn if my perceptions are skewed or not (though it could also be the case that there are subtle variations in those perceptions based on age and how that effects hearing, but that would still show through to all live as well as playback arenas).

Certainly I can appreciate that, although I did not say that they didn't have "quality/real sounding bass." I thought they sounded fine, but nothing particularly special. It was *not* poor bass by any stretch, I thought it was more than decent by all accounts. I do have somewhat critical and high expectations for high-end speakers, so I don't mean to come off overly negative, and of course tastes differ substantially.

I've heard the old Salons at Lyric HiFi in White Plains. It has been over a year now, but I don't recall being overwhelmed with any significant sound difference (for the better) in the bass, albeit Lyric HiFi in White Plains NY is a rather small shop so the acoustic situation could have been an issue. I wasn't impressed with the Salon in general in comparison to the 800D Lyric had in the next room at least (and I already know how I feel about the differences between the B&W 800D and W/P 8s), the Salons just didn't sound "lifelike" to me (again, this could be the room more than the speaker). I actually have two Sub 30s for surround media playback, and like them very much.

I'll definitely find some Dynaudio Evidence speakers to demo. I won't have time for another two weeks, but it is going to be at the top of my list now. I was impressed with those little Confidence C1s for the price at HE2007. Unfortunately, hearing the Salons in a demo room again might be hard at this point because of the Salon2s.

Of course, I haven't heard the new salons.

Although keep in mind that the Dynaudios sound quite different from the WP8 that you are using now, and while auditioning is ALWAYS a good idea, if you very much like the sound of your Wilsons, changing to a pretty different sounding speaker may not be what I would recommend of course, for you specifically.

It could also be room positioning of the speakers, listening position. It could be that there is not enough room treatment (slap echo and multiple early reflection issues can cause these kinds of problems to a significant degree). If I think of more I'll post them.

Also, make sure you remove whatever speaker you aren't listening to at the time, placing one speaker next to the other speaker when playing music can cause sound issues as well, much like a room boundary will.

This is also a big part of it. Obvously the speaker can and does play a significant role in this, the room is hugely hugely important, and especially with the soundstaging which needs to be done cleanly in the space for complex music (with many instruments and such) to be resolved clearly and openly. But yes different speakers do have very different imaging capabilities as well.

Queue,

If you were referring to my opinion on the bass, maybe I wasn't very clear. I thought the bass sounded very good with the WP8's alone. My point was that they were trying to demo the new subs and I think blindfolded it would be tough to tell if they were on or not. There was definately more extension but maybe the fact that there wasn't much more output with the subs engaged that threw me off. For me, with a two channel setup, the subs didn't seem like they'd be worth the extra cash. Of course 7.1 channel would be a different story.

From a sales perspective that may be negative in a short demo, but that is the way a good subwoofer should sound: not noticeable. You should never hear the subwoofer come on and immediately be able to say "aha! theres the subwoofer". It should be seamless, and subtle, especially with a speaker that already has good bass extension and performance on its own like the WP8. For instance the big Professional Home Cinema room was an example of the opposite, quite negatively in fact, but I'm sure it impressed a lot of people anyway. :rolleyes:

Wilson always ends up sounding like a harsh congested mess to me. They sound absolutely fantastic on sparse music, especially vocals, but they turn into a big mess for me with stuff beyond that, somewhat like Linn.

What albums, songs, recordings would you suggest I listen to in order to get an example of the "harsh congested mess" issue? A few examples would be highly appreciated (as many as possible would be even better) so I can experiment with my own setup and see if I have any of these problems.

So far I've only had that kind of issue with one of my live Grateful Dead albums (From the Vault 1), but further along on that same album it gets better (likely a mixing board alteration was made as they were playing Help-->Slipknot because by the time they start playing track 3 - Franklin's Tower - it seems to have cleared up; I'll have to listen carefully when I have time and try to locate where exactly the change occurs...). I've not had the speakers very long yet, so I haven't had an opportuniy to listen to a whole lot of material at this point, any suggestions to illustrate the issues you listed would be helpful to me. Thanks so far for the replies.

Also, no one has mentioned what they thought of the Duettes matched with the W/P 8s. Did anyone listen to them both from the sweetspot?

What albums, songs, recordings would you suggest I listen to in order to get an example of the "harsh congested mess" issue? A few examples would be highly appreciated (as many as possible would be even better) so I can experiment with my own setup and see if I have any of these problems.


Oh, I don't really recall specifics, a variety of general stuff. I've never sat down for a very long period of time at once and very seriously listened to Wilson speakers, so I don't think it's fair for me to go into any kind of detail, except to characerize that my personal preferences generally don't really match with what I've heard on a handful of their systems thus far. I really don't want to be suggesting negative things to someone who is familiarizing themselves with their new speakers, I don't want to make you find things NOT to like about your speakers, that's not a very nice thing to do! ;)

I would mainly just suggest that you listen to the music you like, and enjoy your speakers, and enjoy the continuing search if you decide to continue auditioning other speakers as well.

I had the same perceptions of Wilson that Chris had...........until I heard them last week at a store in Texas. My opinion of the WP8 is that they are sooooo neutral they are very system dependent. If you like warm and tubey sound and the WP8s are on solid state the speakers will not color the sound to improve it as some speakers are designed to do.

Oh, I don't really recall specifics, a variety of general stuff. I've never sat down for a very long period of time at once and very seriously listened to Wilson speakers, so I don't think it's fair for me to go into any kind of detail, except to characerize that my personal preferences generally don't really match with what I've heard on a handful of their systems thus far. I really don't want to be suggesting negative things to someone who is familiarizing themselves with their new speakers, I don't want to make you find things NOT to like about your speakers, that's not a very nice thing to do! ;)

I would mainly just suggest that you listen to the music you like, and enjoy your speakers, and enjoy the continuing search if you decide to continue auditioning other speakers as well.

I'm always interested in hearing new speakers.

IMO, there is nothing wrong with having "eyes wide open" about the speakers you own. That is why if there is an issue with certain music/recordings/etc with large dynamic range and W/P8 speakers, or other related issues, I want to know about them and hear them. It's no secret that the perfect speaker has yet to be created, and I'm worlds happier than I was with my previous speakers, so it won't make my life any more miserable to know about issues with the W/P8 than it would to own any other speaker and be aware of its characteristic issues (as they all have issues).

If anything, the added experience of identifying a known issue will add to my first-hand knowledge and skill.

QueueCumber,

ChrisWiggles is right. You should be enjoying your new speakers without all of the analysis. They are not lab instruments, but sources of entertainment.

Ever since I got my WP8s, I have been in heaven. My music has never sounded better. In fact, I have been so impressed with the reduction of grain, neutrality, and coherence of these speakers, that I sent my Wavelength Crimson USB DAC back to Wavelength for the Silver Transformer upgrade.

This move forced me to get back into my vinyl. I have an extensive collection including all of the original RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence recordings. I was blown away listening to these old recordings on the WP8s.

Now have some fun. You have earned it!

Steve

QueueCumber,

ChrisWiggles is right. You should be enjoying your new speakers without all of the analysis. They are not lab instruments, but sources of entertainment.

Ever since I got my WP8s, I have been in heaven. My music has never sounded better. In fact, I have been so impressed with the reduction of grain, neutrality, and coherence of these speakers, that I sent my Wavelength Crimson USB DAC back to Wavelength for the Silver Transformer upgrade.

This move forced me to get back into my vinyl. I have an extensive collection including all of the original RCA Living Stereo and Mercury Living Presence recordings. I was blown away listening to these old recordings on the WP8s.

Now have some fun. You have earned it!

Steve

Thanks, Steve. I can't help it though, I'm just like that. :eek:

I have a lot of those Living Stereo albums on SACD/CD. Which ones do you highly recommend I listen to? Thanks.

Thanks, Steve. I can't help it though, I'm just like that. :eek:

I have a lot of those Living Stereo albums on SACD/CD. Which ones do you highly recommend I listen to? Thanks.

In a sense it is a good way to be, always open minded, etc. So often high-enders and audiophiles get extremely defensive about how "great" "best" etc their system is, and are more interested in you agreeing with their gear preferences than just enjoying the music and appreciating various systems with different sets of weaknesses. Always be able to be open minded and critical of your own system, at the same time you also have to be able to turn off your critique, sit back, and just enjoy the music, because that's what it's all about.

In a sense it is a good way to be, always open minded, etc. So often high-enders and audiophiles get extremely defensive about how "great" "best" etc their system is, and are more interested in you agreeing with their gear preferences than just enjoying the music and appreciating various systems with different sets of weaknesses. Always be able to be open minded and critical of your own system, at the same time you also have to be able to turn off your critique, sit back, and just enjoy the music, because that's what it's all about.

I have to be open minded. At some point I will eventually upgrade again (though certainly not for a long time to come, unless I move the W/P8s to the surround positions and get Maxx IIs), so I have to be open to the realm of possibilities and keep developing my ability to vocalize my experiences so that I am cognizant of the differences when I hear them.

I have to be open minded. At some point I will eventually upgrade again (though certainly not for a long time to come, unless I move the W/P8s to the surround positions and get Maxx IIs), so I have to be open to the realm of possibilities and keep developing my ability to vocalize my experiences so that I am cognizant of the differences when I hear them.

seems to me that you've been smitten by the Wilson listening experience

Be careful as it can be addicting

I have owned WP 5.1's, WP 6's. MAXX l's, X-1 Series lll, and now the X-2 but also have in my room the XS, WATCH center, surround and rears

seems to me that you've been smitten by the Wilson listening experience

Be careful as it can be addicting

I have owned WP 5.1's, WP 6's. MAXX l's, X-1 Series lll, and now the X-2 but also have in my room the XS, WATCH center, surround and rears

The hardest decision I've had to face so far with these speakers is a difference of 6 inches in my listening location (relational to the 1.1:1 vs. 1.25:1 ratios of listener distance to the speakers and the speakers to each other)...

At the most forward position of those 6 inches the music is more immersive, seems more tonally/timbre accurate, and is more detailed at the level of individual element/instrument character. At the back end of those 6 inches, the music is more focused, less bright (consequently, dulled tonally/timbrally), and more comprehensible/detailed as a whole at the cost of the minute details. The closer of the 6 inches is more like a real performance. The further of those 6 inches is more coherent for analyzing an album.

Music/albums seem to benefit from each uniquely, but in general those are the qualities that seem to be consistant between the two positions. Of course, there is also all those half inches in-between those 6 inches as well that are slight variations between the two positions....

The truth is, it wouldn't be a dilemma if I didn't enjoy both positions for the unique opportunities they provide to explore the music in different ways!

The hardest decision I've had to face so far with these speakers is a difference of 6 inches in my listening location (relational to the 1.1:1 vs. 1.25:1 ratios of listener distance to the speakers and the speakers to each other)...

At the most forward position of those 6 inches the music is more immersive, seems more tonally/timbre accurate, and is more detailed at the level of individual element/instrument character. At the back end of those 6 inches, the music is more focused, less bright (consequently, dulled tonally/timbrally), and more comprehensible/detailed as a whole at the cost of the minute details. The closer of the 6 inches is more like a real performance. The further of those 6 inches is more coherent for analyzing an album.

Music/albums seem to benefit from each uniquely, but in general those are the qualities that seem to be consistant between the two positions. Of course, there is also all those half inches in-between those 6 inches as well that are slight variations between the two positions....

The truth is, it wouldn't be a dilemma if I didn't enjoy both positions for the unique opportunities they provide to explore the music in different ways!

Personally I prefer 1.1X and have always used this for my Wilson speakers.

My only question is whether your upper module should be adjusted by one point or different size spike

Personally I prefer 1.1X and have always used this for my Wilson speakers.

My only question is whether your upper module should be adjusted by one point or different size spike

It is a #4 right now. Did you mean just that one setting, or were you referring to more than one setting when you asked, "whether your upper module should be adjusted by one point or different size spike"?

I'm only sitting around 38" to 40" off the floor, depending on what kind of mood I'm in, e.g. relaxed or attentive. The speakers are around 12' away, and I have a single spacer on the floor spikes. The propagation tables list the #4 as the right spike for those settings.

It is a #4 right now. Did you mean just that one setting, or were you referring to more than one setting when you asked, "whether your upper module should be adjusted by one point or different size spike"?

I'm only sitting around 38" to 40" off the floor, depending on what kind of mood I'm in, e.g. relaxed or attentive. The speakers are around 12' away, and I have a single spacer on the floor spikes. The propagation tables list the #4 as the right spike for those settings.

The single most critical factor in setting up any Wilson speaker is to be certain that your tweeter is aimed directly at ear level

I meant either a different size spike and/or a different spike setting

in general those are the qualities that seem to be consistant between the two positions. Of course, there is also all those half inches in-between those 6 inches as well that are slight variations between the two positions....

The truth is, it wouldn't be a dilemma if I didn't enjoy both positions for the unique opportunities they provide to explore
See, this is why it is important not to quote someone out of context. I mean, what exactly are we discussing here?

See, this is why it is important not to quote someone out of context. I mean, what exactly are we discussing here?

The Joy of Context? :o

I meant either a different size spike and/or a different spike setting

I could remove the Puppy Paw spacer and bring them lower to the floor and perhaps garner a little performance advantage. Adding another spacer and/or using a lower number spike on the WATT wouldn't be a good idea though as I would be taking the tweeter significantly off-axis with my ears compared to the current setup. I'll try raising my seating position with some cushions to see if it would be worthwhile to remove that single spacer that is currently in use. Thanks.

It only goes to show how different tastes can run. I sold my 802Ds and passed up an opportunity to move up to the 800Ds at a very nice price (50% off, and only used for a year or so by someone who took pristine care of them) to get the W/P 8s instead. I got tired of the mid-range of the music sounding like it was concealed inside a large cavernous barrel, with chesty, muffled vocals (tubby and canned are two words I've heard thrown around before) recessed too far behind the rest of the sound. I could never hear vocals adequately on the 800 Diamond series speakers, it drove me nuts.

Interesting to hear your opinions of the 800d vs the wp8. I've heard many Wilsons but not the wp8 - never thought of any of them as "neutral". My preference in sound favours the 800d over any wilson I've ever heard so I found it amusing that you were bothered by the vocals on the 800d. I've heard the 802d on many occasions and only once have I heard it set up properly where I left scratching my head and thinking, "man that was really something". The bass on the 800d is really something but they weren't setup properly when I heard them.

The bottom line is that people will prefer a certain type of sound depending on the type of music they listen to and probably countless other factors. I prefer "neutral" sound and have a full ATC setup. Lots of pluses and a few minuses to my new active Signature 100 towers but I haven't heard another speaker which I prefer when I look at the overall picture.

Enjoy your wp8s and don't fret if there are people that don't like them...only your own ears matter!

QueueCumber,

The Puppy spacer is used to reduce a bass emphasis in your setup. I have owned 2/3s, 5.1, 6, 7, and now WP8s. And yes OB, I suspect that someday I'll get a pair of MAXXs.

Wilson is really demanding of their dealers to do a proper setup.

As for SACD RCA titles to recommend, I'll have to see what was released on SACD.

Steve

Interesting to hear your opinions of the 800d vs the wp8. I've heard many Wilsons but not the wp8 - never thought of any of them as "neutral". My preference in sound favours the 800d over any wilson I've ever heard so I found it amusing that you were bothered by the vocals on the 800d. I've heard the 802d on many occasions and only once have I heard it set up properly where I left scratching my head and thinking, "man that was really something". The bass on the 800d is really something but they weren't setup properly when I heard them.

The bottom line is that people will prefer a certain type of sound depending on the type of music they listen to and probably countless other factors. I prefer "neutral" sound and have a full ATC setup. Lots of pluses and a few minuses to my new active Signature 100 towers but I haven't heard another speaker which I prefer when I look at the overall picture.

Enjoy your wp8s and don't fret if there are people that don't like them...only your own ears matter!

I'm not saying I didn't like the 802Ds, or the 800Ds, though it might have seemed that way from my post. I was only highlighting the aspects that I couldn't stand anymore, and that consequently influenced my decision to not buy the 800Ds used for $10K when I had the chance and to switch to the W/P 8s instead.

There were some very nice things I did like about the 800D and 802D in the midrange, especially with guitar harmonics (though I'm hearing as much, if not more of that on the Wilsons as well - Steve Vai's "Sisters" is an acoustic piece with layers of guitar harmonics that really brings out how well both speakers sound in this respect).

Another quality I liked was that the 800Ds and 802Ds could make even very bad recordings relatively demure. The Wilson is not as laid-back in these respects; it is definitely more revealing of faults in the engineering and sound quality.

The 802Ds and 800Ds didn't seem neutral to me, they were warm IMO.

Hi, do you really think someday W/A will introduce again a variant of the 750 lbs giant XS? That one should blend with the 13"+15" woofers of the X-2...

I thought the Watch Dog (H=27") with one third XS' heigth (86"), and 13" dual spider woofer, was the alternative being much better to handle 'for the mass' than the XS. BTW, both models have front firing ports, XS at first.

On the other hand knowing W/A a little bit: if ever they come with an alternative for their passive 2x 18" XS it must be a killer... "Excess" would fit I guess. :D

Best, Rene

Best answer is who knows other than Dave?

Personally I love my XS

Its funny reading this thread since it gives new meaning "to each his own".

Case in point I'm not a big B&W fan but loved the PMC demo using amps from BAT and processing from THETA at "The Show" adjacent from CEDIA last year in Denver.

Now the MAXXII and that MBL rig (looks like an outdoor gas heater) are awesome but at $45K they should be. There are several $10 - $25K players that give them a run for thier money for sure.

I went to the show, having no idea it was going on. I work for a competitor and we had a night off and heard about it and stopped by. I work in a different state but I must say I was very impressed by the show that was put on by definitive audio! Its nice to see someone else that cares anymore as more and more of the nicer show rooms are going appointment only/custom or out of business and away from high end audio, its sad really.

The titan 500 looked great (single lamp use) and I was in the front row (way to close for my taste) so I wasn't expecting much...got a great s how out of it.