Looks like Sony's game division (PS3) is taking a hit all over.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19090812/

Looks like Sony's game division (PS3) is taking a hit all over.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19090812/


I don't see a single mention of Blu-ray or HD-DVD in that entire article, so I don't see how the PS3 vs. the Wii is relevant here.

Though you have to admit, if Blu-ray software sales are clobbering HD-DVD now even with the horrible PS3 sales, you have to wonder how HD-DVD can even survive if PS3 sales are to pick up.

I don't see a single mention of Blu-ray or HD-DVD in that entire article, so I don't see how the PS3 vs. the Wii is relevant here.

Though you have to admit, if Blu-ray software sales are clobbering HD-DVD now even with the horrible PS3 sales, you have to wonder how HD-DVD can even survive if PS3 sales are to pick up.

I can only imagine :p

Or stand alone blu-ray disc player sales for that matter.

Its pretty easy to see the relevance if you ask me:


Wii continues to outsell PS3

PS3 continues to sell less than anticipated

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes


Like I said, pretty easy to see relevance :) If there was no Wii, the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales numbers and there wouldn't be much of a format war going on. SONY thought they were going to get a free pass in the gaming world leading to a huge advantage in the HD world. Didn't happen. The Wii threw a wrench in SONY's plans.

Throw in rumors of smaller software vendors thinking of NOT supporting PS3 as much and rumors of SONY cutting back PS3 production. That means even LESS PS3 sales than expected. That affects the format war and its all b/c of Wii.

In fact in $ terms the HD DVD and BD markets are remarkably close. The folks on the business side are aware of this. There is no clobbering going on, even if the sales ratio is in BD's favor.

The bigger story is weak overall sales for both formats. IMO.

[QUOTE=FoolintheRain]

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes
QUOTE]

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes = Broken promises to obtain studio exclusives = unhappy studios = Good news for HD-DVD :)

The biggest problem that Sony has is getting support from the companies that make games. If the installed base is low some venders will decide not to support the PS3. It is very expensive to convert a game to PS3. Sony must sell games or the system will fail. They realize this and they will have to lower the price of the PS3. This will require much more than $100 price cut to get things moving. The Wii is hot now and is still hard to get. You can find the PS3 everywhere and they are sitting on shelves at the current price. There is also a psychological bandwagon effect towards the Wii at this time. With the hot games coming out for the Wii and Xbox 360 the PS3 could be left in the dust. The other thing to consider is that if Sony lowers the price Microsoft will do the same and they are in a better position to do so. This could have an impact on Blu-Ray as well. The sad fact is that both formats will fail if things don't start moving this fall. The window is very short for both sides.

Personally I think that MS should have dropped the price on the 360 a while ago, but I know they have their investors to worry about and will probably wait it out until Sony does it. I think a price cut on the base unit itself and the HD-DVD drive would make a pretty nice deal for a lot of people though. I know I've been holding off on the 360 until a price cut comes (aside from it being cheaper I figured there would be plenty of games that would interest me when that comes along and there already are some titles I want to get).

Its pretty easy to see the relevance if you ask me:


Wii continues to outsell PS3

PS3 continues to sell less than anticipated

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes


Like I said, pretty easy to see relevance :) If there was no Wii, the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales numbers and there wouldn't be much of a format war going on. SONY thought they were going to get a free pass in the gaming world leading to a huge advantage in the HD world. Didn't happen. The Wii threw a wrench in SONY's plans.

Throw in rumors of smaller software vendors thinking of NOT supporting PS3 as much and rumors of SONY cutting back PS3 production. That means even LESS PS3 sales than expected. That affects the format war and its all b/c of Wii.


The XBox 360 sells double the units that the PS3 sells, too...

you have to wonder how HD-DVD can even survive if PS3 sales are to pick up.

That's pretty funny. Sony's in the hole for billions in losses yet HD-DVD better watch out, or they won't survive If Sony starts selling the BluRay player they tried to force down everyones throat in the gaming world?

A little advice to Sony: Drop the BD player from the PS3 and chop that price in half or you will lose the videogame market AND the BluRay market once and for all.

Personally I don't blame the Wii at all. Apparently Sony has no clue why the hell anybody buys a game console. $600 is a tough price point for the mainstream community. I even feel xbox was pushing it with their $300-400 systems which are also not selling that great. The wii is a far inferior product that is fun and cheap.

Sony made a gamble. They figured if they pushed Blu-Ray into their gaming system they could ride their industry leading platform into a Blu-Ray victory and change 25 years of Sony media history. The plan sounded good on paper but the problem is that Blu-Ray technology is pre-mature. During introduction it cost sony aprox 900 per unit with the BLu-ray drive increasing costs $100-125 over a standard DVD player and an uncertain ammount extra not including electronics costs associated with it. Selling the device at $599 Sony clearly eats $300 on every unit with hopes of getting market share for blu-ray and its game platform. With some advancements and economies of scale PS3 cost is rumored to float around $800 currently however obviously there is still money being lost on every single unit. Meanwhile the Xbox 360 is currently making a profit on every unit sold so you know what is going to happen if PS3 prices drop...

Had sony decided to follow microsoft and equip the PS3 with a Standard DVD drive they could have priced their unit competatively with the xbox and could have eaten into the xbox market share quite easily. They could have just offered an external blu-ray player to take full advantage of its capabilities for those that actually wanted it. Huge mistake in my opinion. I doubt there are too many games out there that need more than 9gb's of space on a disc.

Meanwhile the WII is an exciting "new" game system that is affordable to everyone. And knowing Nintendo you know their titles will be fun and exciting even if they lack technically. Do you think the WII would be this successful with the PS3 and XBOX priced around $300-400? Maybe but I'm sure they wouldn't have *THIS* much market share.

So here is the real kicker now for sony. By trying to ride blu-ray on their platform they priced their way out of the market and lost major gaming market share. Due to the higher price of Blu-ray they may have priced their way out of the HD disc wars too so they might possibly lose here too or at least fail to achieve commanding victory (most likely). So they got a double gotcha.

And now potential fixes? Toshiba is killing blu-ray on price point. IF Blu-ray players were to come out in the $300 range you can bet this will hurt PS3 sales even more losing evne more gaming market share. If they lower the price of the PS3 and take even more loss per unit xbox will counter with a more impressive price cut and still stay in the green or at least break even but gain market share and steal some of Wii's thunder. So what do you do now????

And now potential fixes? Toshiba is killing blu-ray on price point. IF Blu-ray players were to come out in the $300 range you can bet this will hurt PS3 sales even more losing evne more gaming market share. If they lower the price of the PS3 and take even more loss per unit xbox will counter with a more impressive price cut and still stay in the green or at least break even but gain market share and steal some of Wii's thunder. So what do you do now????

Easy.

You take a good long hard look in the mirror, reflect on your past, and realize that despite the fact that you make a whole slew of devices that play media; this in no way makes you an authority on, nor adept at, creating and promoting your own media formats. Then you take your brand which has diminished tremendously in the face of competition over the last decade, but used to be among the tip-top in consumer electronics, and get back to doing what you're good at; making devices that play other industry media formats.

I don't see a single mention of Blu-ray or HD-DVD in that entire article
The PS3 has the most installed base of Blu-ray players, so how can you not see a correlation here? Wii and Xbox360 machines are outselling the PS3 right now by a wide margin. Sony took so much of a loss with the 20gb PS3 that they stopped selling it. Basically Sony's game division is hurting, and this is also affecting their Blu-ray side.

Though you have to admit, if Blu-ray software sales are clobbering HD-DVD now ....

If HD-DVD is getting "clobbered" - how would you describe whats happening to PS3 ? :p

If HD-DVD is getting "clobbered" - how would you describe whats happening to PS3 ? :p
I can only imagine :p :D

Personally I don't blame the Wii at all. Apparently Sony has no clue why the hell anybody buys a game console. $600 is a tough price point for the mainstream community. I even feel xbox was pushing it with their $300-400 systems which are also not selling that great. The wii is a far inferior product that is fun and cheap.

Sony made a gamble. They figured if they pushed Blu-Ray into their gaming system they could ride their industry leading platform into a Blu-Ray victory and change 25 years of Sony media history. The plan sounded good on paper but the problem is that Blu-Ray technology is pre-mature. During introduction it cost sony aprox 900 per unit with the BLu-ray drive increasing costs $100-125 over a standard DVD player and an uncertain ammount extra not including electronics costs associated with it. Selling the device at $599 Sony clearly eats $300 on every unit with hopes of getting market share for blu-ray and its game platform. With some advancements and economies of scale PS3 cost is rumored to float around $800 currently however obviously there is still money being lost on every single unit. Meanwhile the Xbox 360 is currently making a profit on every unit sold so you know what is going to happen if PS3 prices drop...

Had sony decided to follow microsoft and equip the PS3 with a Standard DVD drive they could have priced their unit competatively with the xbox and could have eaten into the xbox market share quite easily. They could have just offered an external blu-ray player to take full advantage of its capabilities for those that actually wanted it. Huge mistake in my opinion. I doubt there are too many games out there that need more than 9gb's of space on a disc.

Meanwhile the WII is an exciting "new" game system that is affordable to everyone. And knowing Nintendo you know their titles will be fun and exciting even if they lack technically. Do you think the WII would be this successful with the PS3 and XBOX priced around $300-400? Maybe but I'm sure they wouldn't have *THIS* much market share.

So here is the real kicker now for sony. By trying to ride blu-ray on their platform they priced their way out of the market and lost major gaming market share. Due to the higher price of Blu-ray they may have priced their way out of the HD disc wars too so they might possibly lose here too or at least fail to achieve commanding victory (most likely). So they got a double gotcha.

And now potential fixes? Toshiba is killing blu-ray on price point. IF Blu-ray players were to come out in the $300 range you can bet this will hurt PS3 sales even more losing evne more gaming market share. If they lower the price of the PS3 and take even more loss per unit xbox will counter with a more impressive price cut and still stay in the green or at least break even but gain market share and steal some of Wii's thunder. So what do you do now????

Well Said!

If HD-DVD is getting "clobbered" - how would you describe whats happening to PS3 ? :p

You know business is good when your company is running low on coffins (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/06/anecdotal-microsoft-low-on-xbox-360-coffins/) :eek:

Sony made a gamble.
And Sony made the same gamble with Betamax, MD, etc - and we all know where those formats are now. ;)

Sony HAS to cut the price on the PS3 by $100-$150 in order to compete with the Wii or even the Xbox 360. My friends wife works for Sam's Club as a manager and she said they can't give them away and they even have a huge stockpile of the 20Gb's which are hard to find...and it comes with a extra controller...she also said they sold out on the HD DVD add on's again last week. Personally I have the PS3 and I think it's great...matter of fact I feel it's the best BD player at this date. But they need to adjust the price or it's bad news for Sony PS3. Sad!

Its pretty easy to see the relevance if you ask me:


Wii continues to outsell PS3

PS3 continues to sell less than anticipated

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes


Like I said, pretty easy to see relevance :) If there was no Wii, the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales numbers and there wouldn't be much of a format war going on. SONY thought they were going to get a free pass in the gaming world leading to a huge advantage in the HD world. Didn't happen. The Wii threw a wrench in SONY's plans.

Throw in rumors of smaller software vendors thinking of NOT supporting PS3 as much and rumors of SONY cutting back PS3 production. That means even LESS PS3 sales than expected. That affects the format war and its all b/c of Wii.

That's exactly what my thinking was!!! Isn't the PS3 suppose to be the Blu-Ray savior? :) Seriously though....with some of the possilble patent infringment lawsuits being levied against BluRay and now this how does this shape the future for BluRay and HD-DVD?

You know business is good when your company is running low on coffins (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/06/06/anecdotal-microsoft-low-on-xbox-360-coffins/) :eek:

I don't see a single mention of PS3 vs. the Wii in that entire article, so I don't see how it is relevant here.

If there was no Wii, the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales numbers and there wouldn't be much of a format war going on.
Do you not grasp that the reason the PS3 isn't selling is because of its astronomical price and the fact that the 360 has almost the same library? The Wii not existing would have minimal effect on PS3 sales.


TheKal made some good points, but Microsoft is not necessarily making a profit on "every 360 sold" so far. On face value parts alone, yes, it appears to be that way. But getting it ready for the store after that and onto the store shelves themselves is not a cost hurdle they have cleared yet.

They are definitely getting close, though. Once they introduce the smaller chips later this year, they should be right there.

What would be totally asinine of Microsoft at that point is if they do not a) Knock the price of the 360 down so it goes for $200 and $300 (or $350/$400 for the Elite) and b) Push the HD DVD add-on harder...maybe even as a pack in with the Elite for Christmas. MS overall has been very, very lax thus far in its support of HD DVD, which is a shame when you see how Amir busts his ass as a goodwill ambassador for the format and informant for the hardcores.

Seriously though....with some of the possilble patent infringment lawsuits being levied against BluRay and now this how does this shape the future for BluRay and HD-DVD?
Interesting, I haven't seen this news as yet. Surely even Sony doesn't have enough money to pay off everyone! :eek:

I don't see a single mention of PS3 vs. the Wii in that entire article, so I don't see how it is relevant here.

The article is relevant to the HD-DVD player forum, hint this is the board we are on "HD DVD Players" ;) The Wii and PS3 however are not HD-DVD players yet I'm sure you have no problems discussing them here. Did you get lost, click the wrong link by mistake or are you just simply confused :confused:

Interesting, I haven't seen this news as yet. Surely even Sony doesn't have enough money to pay off everyone! :eek:

Do a simple Google Search...

http://news.digitaltrends.com/news/story/13094/sony_sued_over_blu-ray_patent_infringement

http://www.huliq.com/22744/sony-sued-for-blu-ray-patent-infringement

http://www.about-electronics.eu/2007/05/30/sony-in-trouble-for-blu-ray-patent-infringement/

http://www.techshout.com/hardware/2007/26/sony-hit-with-blu-ray-patent-infringement-lawsuit-by-target-technology/


and theres more than this.


Not to stray to much off topic but didn't Sony lose a boat load of money in a lawsuit over vibration technology in the PS2 controllers? Is that why they're not in the PS3.

UPDATE: Answered my own question....they paid Immersion Corp 97 million over the vibration technology in the PS2 controllers.

I don't see a single mention of Blu-ray or HD-DVD in that entire article, so I don't see how the PS3 vs. the Wii is relevant here.

Though you have to admit, if Blu-ray software sales are clobbering HD-DVD now even with the horrible PS3 sales, you have to wonder how HD-DVD can even survive if PS3 sales are to pick up.

Nobody is clobbering anyone. In fact, Sony and the BDA must be very disappointed that users of the PS3 for blu movie watching is only around 20%. That stinks.

Its pretty easy to see the relevance if you ask me:


Wii continues to outsell PS3

PS3 continues to sell less than anticipated

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes


Like I said, pretty easy to see relevance :) If there was no Wii, the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales numbers and there wouldn't be much of a format war going on. SONY thought they were going to get a free pass in the gaming world leading to a huge advantage in the HD world. Didn't happen. The Wii threw a wrench in SONY's plans.

Throw in rumors of smaller software vendors thinking of NOT supporting PS3 as much and rumors of SONY cutting back PS3 production. That means even LESS PS3 sales than expected. That affects the format war and its all b/c of Wii.
You need to read more than just sales numbers. The Wii is killing the PS3, but it's not because people are buying a Wii over a PS3. They are two different consoles aimed at different audiences. Sure, there are some people that picked a Wii over the PS3, but most of the research has shown this not to be the case. The Wii dominance over the PS3 is for two main reasons.

1. The Wii is selling to Nintendo base, but also people who traditionally haven't bought game systems. That's the beauty of the Wii. It's something everyone wants to play and it's priced in a range friendly to families. They can sell it at that price due to reuse of the GameCube structure and base.

2. Sony hasn't shown the PS3 to be worth the price for most gamers. Don't forget the PS2 is still the top selling console each month. The millions of PS2 owners who are serious gamers are either migrating to the XBOX 360 because of lower prices and more games, or they are waiting for the PS3 to come down in price.

A price drop of the PS3 will help the second point, but not the first. The end result will be the PS3 selling fewer units than the XBOX 360, but I think it will eventually catch up to the Wii as the really large PS2 base starts to look for an upgrade to HD as 360 and PS3 prices come down. The Wii's success will only be limited by the number of traditionally non-gamers enticed to buy the console because it's fun to play. Either way you look at it, there are 3 great consoles available right now.

As for the HD DVD vs Blu Ray garbage, I don't think HD DVD will be able to keep up with the 82,000 PS3 being sold every month. Especially if that number increases because of a price drop. Also, I think the production cutbacks on the PS3 will only be temporary until price reductions help to empty the existing inventory. Then, production will be scaled to match the post-price drop demand.

If the majority of the job cuts occur in Europe and the US (as the article suggests - "restructuring" only in Japan) I don't think that's going to improve their position perceptually wise in these markets and may result in a backlash from consumers.

That's exactly what my thinking was!!! Isn't the PS3 suppose to be the Blu-Ray savior? :) Seriously though....with some of the possilble patent infringment lawsuits being levied against BluRay and now this how does this shape the future for BluRay and HD-DVD?
Sony is holding on his breath to be able to compete with toshiba...they are trying to provide lower price BR player...their partners ( samsung philips,and many more )ae giving up because they don't see any profit to invest in such war with low price machine
..sony is becoming red and ready to explode :D :D :D :D :D

Personally I don't blame the Wii at all. Apparently Sony has no clue why the hell anybody buys a game console. $600 is a tough price point for the mainstream community. I even feel xbox was pushing it with their $300-400 systems which are also not selling that great. The wii is a far inferior product that is fun and cheap.

Sony made a gamble. They figured if they pushed Blu-Ray into their gaming system they could ride their industry leading platform into a Blu-Ray victory and change 25 years of Sony media history. The plan sounded good on paper but the problem is that Blu-Ray technology is pre-mature. During introduction it cost sony aprox 900 per unit with the BLu-ray drive increasing costs $100-125 over a standard DVD player and an uncertain ammount extra not including electronics costs associated with it. Selling the device at $599 Sony clearly eats $300 on every unit with hopes of getting market share for blu-ray and its game platform. With some advancements and economies of scale PS3 cost is rumored to float around $800 currently however obviously there is still money being lost on every single unit. Meanwhile the Xbox 360 is currently making a profit on every unit sold so you know what is going to happen if PS3 prices drop...

Kal I agree with you wholeheartedly regarding your comments regarding the $600 price point. You are dead on with your comment that Sony took a gamble. They believed that everyone would be so in awe with high def playback that they would pay a premium for a PS3. However, I have always believed that the majority of playstation owners are GAMERS first and home theater ethusiasts second...or even third. In other words, if the bulk of your potential customer base does not care about high def playback, then they are not going to be willing to pay a premium. Especially when there are other cheaper gaming console alternatives in the market.

So here is the real kicker now for sony. By trying to ride blu-ray on their platform they priced their way out of the market and lost major gaming market share. Due to the higher price of Blu-ray they may have priced their way out of the HD disc wars too so they might possibly lose here too or at least fail to achieve commanding victory (most likely). So they got a double gotcha.

And now potential fixes? Toshiba is killing blu-ray on price point. IF Blu-ray players were to come out in the $300 range you can bet this will hurt PS3 sales even more losing evne more gaming market share. If they lower the price of the PS3 and take even more loss per unit xbox will counter with a more impressive price cut and still stay in the green or at least break even but gain market share and steal some of Wii's thunder. So what do you do now????

Let's not forget that just because a company loses market share doesn't meant that it cannot be recaptured. The Wii is doing really well right now, I have one and I enjoy playing it. But just recently I started looking at future releases for the Wii and there isn't anything that really excites me. Now just because future Wii releases don't excite me doesn't mean the system is going to die, but my point is that market share can change with a few hot games. And I wouldn't be surprise if a price reduction was in Sony's future once they achieve a certain level of production & manufacturing efficiencies. The console market is a marathon, the Wii is out to an early lead but who knows if they can maintain it? Your point regarding Microsoft is valid, I believe they will undercut Sony if they need to. Not to be a conspiracy expert, but think about this. Sony has some very powerful partners in their blu ray venture. In other words there are a number of major movie studios that have a stake in the success of the PS3 (because of the blu ray functionality). In the world of corporate finance it would not surprise me one bit if Sony's partners elected to "subsidize" an agreesive price reduction strategy in the future to compete against the Microsoft, Nintendo, and Toshiba. It happens all the time in joint ventures, and this is a joint venture with multi-billion dollar companies.

Lastly, Toshiba is currently beating Sony on price. The question to be answered is whether those price cuts lead to increases in software/movie sales. If the price cuts do not translate into stealing market share from the blu ray group, then Toshiba will have played it's best card and come up empty. It will be very interesting watching blu ray & HD DVD sales during the upcoming weeks.

dang i wonder if its possible that they just drop the ps3 and come out with something to compete with the wii? maybe a ps4 with no blu ray drive but around $200 asap? or they keep the ps3 and the ps4? but heh thats what the ps2 ifs for hmmm the wii sure did surprise sony and many of us.

Its pretty easy to see the relevance if you ask me:


Wii continues to outsell PS3

PS3 continues to sell less than anticipated

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes


Like I said, pretty easy to see relevance :) If there was no Wii, the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales numbers and there wouldn't be much of a format war going on. SONY thought they were going to get a free pass in the gaming world leading to a huge advantage in the HD world. Didn't happen. The Wii threw a wrench in SONY's plans.

Throw in rumors of smaller software vendors thinking of NOT supporting PS3 as much and rumors of SONY cutting back PS3 production. That means even LESS PS3 sales than expected. That affects the format war and its all b/c of Wii.

You say if there was no Wii the PS3 would probably be breaking all kinds of sales records. I think if there was no such thing as a Wii, it would have almost NO effect on PS3 sales. People aren't contemplating PS3 vs Wii. Totally different market. I'm sure there are plenty contemplating a 360 or PS3, trying to decide if it is worth $200 more.

I've played the Wii and I can see why it is cool for families and messing around a little bit with friends. But I don't think I would ever see myself REALLY getting into it. To me, it is more of a novelty and is the hot thing right now but will fade eventually.

PS3 definitely needs a price drop to compete. Microsoft has no reason to drop since it is $200 cheaper than the PS3 unless they are looking to be more competitive with the Wii. I'm betting M$ will drop the 360 price this fall in relation to the Halo 3 release. If the drop it $100, that will be very tough for the PS3 to compete with, particularly with Halo 3 and Mass Effect coming this fall.

And Sony made the same gamble with Betamax, MD, etc - and we all know where those formats are now. ;)
You must mean used extensively in the professional realm because of their quality and flexibility? Yes, neither made it as a consumer format, but for professional use, each offers many things no other format available does. Something isn't a failure just because the average Joe doesn't use it.

Microsoft and Nintendo both win here.

I think of the Wii in a totally different genre as the 360 or PS3...

And when you consider you can just about have both the 360 and Wii for the price of the PS3 and get the best of both worlds in terms of games....the PS3 loses yet again.


In terms of HD.....I doubt PS3 really has any lasting effect. The winner will be decided by the movie studios.

Microsoft should come out with a BR Addon =P just to piss everyone off.

I've played the Wii and I can see why it is cool for families and messing around a little bit with friends. But I don't think I would ever see myself REALLY getting into it. To me, it is more of a novelty and is the hot thing right now but will fade eventually.

It won't fade, though, if Nintendo begins to deliver more compelling games. If "Metroid," "Mario," etc. deliver the goods, the Wii is poised to be a monster more than a novelty. They've gotten the huge launch they need, and now it's up to Nintendo to provide the content to make its dominance in the marketplace more than just a temporary one. And if anything there will be a glut of new games coming from other publishers now that they're realizing the sales numbers aren't a fluke.

Sony has got to be hugely worried that the huge lead they had in the marketplace is coming to an end. Just as Nintendo lost footing in the Genesis days, Sony looks like they've aced themselves out of the lead by insisting that everyone needs/wants Blu Ray and that mainstream consumers would splurge for a $600 console.

As of right now they've been wrong...VERY wrong...about their initial projections and expectations. This machine, so far, has been one of the genuine blunders in the video game era, no way around it. Even if sales pick up, who knows how much of the dominant lead Sony once had has been erased for good, at least in this console go-around?

PS3 is an adult game system and the Wii is for children. This is also posted in the wrong thread, shouldn't it be under gaming. End of story.

PS3 is an adult game system and the Wii is for children. This is also posted in the wrong thread, shouldn't it be under gaming. End of story.

I agree this is straying from where I orignally thought it may go.....cut backs in the PS3 area and how it could affect BluRay. Guess I should have known better!! :rolleyes:

Things are about to get worse. Look what I found on Gizmodo via Youtube.

Link (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/movies/problems-with-blu+rays-bd+j-spec-causes-headaches-for-early-adopters-266923.php)

Not another one of these threads! :D

I agree this is straying from where I orignally thought it may go.....cut backs in the PS3 area and how it could affect BluRay. Guess I should have known better!! :rolleyes:

Why even start a PS3/Wii thread in the HD-DVD area? You don't see HD-DVD threads in the Blu-ray forums.

Either way how do you expect HD-DVD to even survive if it can't beat Blu-ray now while Blu-ray players and the PS3 are way overpriced? What happens when they aren't? How the heck is HD-DVD even going to make it long term if the PS3 is getting clobbered in sales yet HD-DVD software still can't even come close to outselling Blu-ray?

If HD-DVD is getting "clobbered" - how would you describe whats happening to PS3 ? :p

Getting clobbered of course.

Which bodes pretty horribly for HD-DVD. If horrible PS3 sales can beat HD-DVD handily with essentially both hands tied behind its back, what happens later when the price of the PS3 drops and more games come out? If giving away players at cost and throwing in 5 free movies doesn't outsell a horribly selling way overpriced console, what will? What's next for Toshiba? Give the players away for free?

I think most people are wise enough not to invest in a movie format with only 3 major studios releasing content on it, that's why. That's why HD-DVD was dead when it was announced and you just have to wait for the smoke to clear. They can price a player as low as they want but who wants to support the next Divx? No one wants a player that plays movies from only 3 major studios with the hope and dream and faith that one day "things will be different."

Why even start a PS3/Wii thread in the HD-DVD area? You don't see HD-DVD threads in the Blu-ray forums.




My intention was not to make it about the PS3 and Wii rather how things affecting Sony/BluRay (SEC) could change the landscape of HD-DVD and BluRay. I agree the thread has strayed but where do you suggest I post a mixed topic (BluRay/HD-DVD) thread like this?

I agree this is straying from where I orignally thought it may go.....cut backs in the PS3 area and how it could affect BluRay. Guess I should have known better!! :rolleyes:

Hey, it happens though and that's what mods are for, moving topics to the proper forum.

My intention was not to make it about the PS3 and Wii rather how things affecting Sony/BluRay (SEC) could change the landscape of HD-DVD and BluRay. I agree the thread has strayed but where do you suggest I post a mixed topic (BluRay/HD-DVD) thread like this?

Probably the HDTV Software forum where both formats are discussed I suspect.

Either way the PS3 is in trouble and Sony knows it. Yet Blu-ray is still outselling HD-DVD and its not even close, so I don't see how this can affect the landscape as we now know a horribly selling PS3 is still >> than cheap Toshiba players in terms of software sales. A PS3 in trouble in terms of sales also = future price drop for the console which can only add to this injury.

Probably the HDTV Software forum where both formats are discussed I suspect.

Either way the PS3 is in trouble and Sony knows it. Yet Blu-ray is still outselling HD-DVD and its not even close, so I don't see how this can affect the landscape as we now know a horrible selling PS3 > cheap Toshiba players in terms of software sales. A PS3 in trouble in terms of sales also = future price drop which can only add to this injury.

Thoughts on the possible BluRay patent infringment? I posted links earlier in the thread.

This thread should of never be posted here in the first place. So hopefully it gets put in the proper place or deleted.

This thread should of never be posted here in the first place. So hopefully it gets put in the proper place or deleted.

Again...define a proper place and I'll ask a mod to move it!! Sheesh!!!

Again...define a proper place and I'll ask a mod to move it!! Sheesh!!!

He probably didn't think he had to be redundant:

Theloveone: "Probably the HDTV Software forum where both formats are discussed I suspect."

I've asked the mod to move it to the HDTV Software forum. It certainly generated some interest while it was here!! :)

Things are about to get worse. Look what I found on Gizmodo via Youtube.

Link (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/movies/problems-with-blu+rays-bd+j-spec-causes-headaches-for-early-adopters-266923.php)

OMFG, This is the funniest thing ever...........


And people were complaining about load time and buggy First Gen HD DVD Players. LOL!

I've asked the mod to move it to the HDTV Software forum. It certainly generated some interest while it was here!! :)
And it's a good thread - I'm glad you started it. It just shows what's happening with Sony now.

Its at almost 50 posts in a couple of hours, it seems to be doing fine here. In spite of it being the HD DVD forum, the bluray partisans seem adequately represented, indeed, they were the first responders.

OMFG, This is the funniest thing ever...........


And people were complaining about load time and buggy First Gen HD DVD Players. LOL!

Ya, where's the bland to comment on the buggy Toshiba decks? Oh wait, all that matters is the main feature, all that extra crap that was supposed to make BD so great doesn't really matter after all. :rolleyes:

PS, that video is priceless

It won't fade, though, if Nintendo begins to deliver more compelling games. If "Metroid," "Mario," etc. deliver the goods, the Wii is poised to be a monster more than a novelty.

If Nintendo didn't have their head firmly lodged in their ass with respect to online play, then they could keep this paltry software library for over a year and nobody would hardly flinch.

I could play Wii Sports alone for months if I could have played it online against friends.

Well I own both a Toshiba HD-A1 and PS3.

But since PS3 doesn´t seem to go anywhere and all the good games that are coming out to PS3 are also being released on the Xbox360 it just doesn´t make any sense to keep it anymore. So far the PS3 version of games have been inferior to the 360 versions as well.
So I´m thinking about switching my PS3 with a friend and get his 360 instead :)

YES, I can live without Blu-Ray for a while and get a standalone in the future if Fox releases the Alien movies or something like that. Until then...**** you FOX for leaving!!!

IF Sony gets it **** together in the future I MIGHT buy PS3 again the next year or two, IF there is something exclusive worth playing.

AND I´m also getting a Wii next monday.
Gameplay goes before HD graphics!!! :D

Thanks for NOTHING Sony!!

God I´m so ****ing tired of this format war!!!

The SD DVD years was so easy.....

Things are about to get worse. Look what I found on Gizmodo via Youtube.

Link (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/movies/problems-with-blu+rays-bd+j-spec-causes-headaches-for-early-adopters-266923.php)


LOL no wonder Warner has the smarts to wait on releasing tittles on BD. This is Hilarious!!!!

LOL no wonder Warner has the smarts to wait on releasing tittles on BD. This is Hilarious!!!!

HAHAHA!! That was damn funny :D

Why the hell do we need these damn lame Java games for anyway???????? :D

This gamble by Sony is reminiscent to Nintendo 10 years ago with their decision to stay with cartriges for the N64 thus the games were too expensive compared to the disc based Playstation. Just like Nintendo didnt wake up then, looks like Sony is doing the same thing now, except in the opposite way, they have moved too early with the technology to be adopted mainstream and they just assumed everyone would pony up because they were the leader last round.

In the end video game players want games, not hardware, so the high cost of the PS3 along with the lack of games makes it really easy to pass on. The innovative gameplay on the Wii also helps them, because its new and unique.

I planned on buying a PS3 but there isn't a single game out on it that I want to play so no need to invest now :)

3 fives!

OMFG, This is the funniest thing ever...........


It sure is. Arent ya jealous?

The Wii is inventing a new market and alot of their buyers have never bought any videogame before.

Hardly anyone buying a PS3 for videogaming don't already own a PS2. They are stuck in their own market share. A few are buying it for Blu Ray but it's not enough for PS3 to get to any decent numbers.

First off the video is awsome.

Sony needs money.

If Sony ports all their movies to HD-DVD, im sure we can help out with many purchases. Neutrality is the way to go and should solve the money woes.

First off the video is awsome.

Sony needs money.

If Sony ports all their movies to HD-DVD, im sure we can help out with many purchases. Neutrality is the way to go and should solve the money woes.
Amen brother. ;)

So much for The Pirate movies to be the death blow to HD-DVD eh Sony? LMAO!!!! LIAR!!! That video was killer!!! :D

One thing I don't understand: If there are more BD players out there than HD-DVD how come the HD-DVD forums always have roughly double the amount of posts as the BD forums do?

One thing I don't understand: If there are more BD players out there than HD-DVD how come the HD-DVD forums always have roughly double the amount of posts as the BD forums do?

Well, since we boot up faster, we watch it faster and have time to the forum.

Watch video for reference here:
Things are about to get worse. Look what I found on Gizmodo via Youtube.

Link (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/movies/problems-with-blu+rays-bd+j-spec-causes-headaches-for-early-adopters-266923.php)

Don't know if this is the right thread for this but I found this at blu-ray.com-

Here are real numbers from VGChartz for the 4 weeks of May 7 to June 3, hardware sales data totals

Wii-397,313
Xbox 360-236,621
PS2-226,976
PS3-73,436

This is what VGChartz says about these figures-

Side note: As a general rule 200k-300k is the typical expectation for hardware that is reasonably priced in a non-holiday/huge game 4 week month just for the USA. You can add upto 10% for Canada, but generally when hardware sells bad in the USA, the % drops alot from the 10% in Canada. Sales in 150k to 200k range per month are decent in the USA, 100-150k are bad, 50-100k is terrible, under 50k usually indicates a dying or failed console. Anything over 300k in a normal month is good, while over 400k just in the USA is nearly unheard of in non-holiday months.

Here is the previous month from VGChartz-

Monthly Summary April 8- May 6

Wii –324,000
360 – 196,000
PS3 – 108,000

PS3 is an adult game system and the Wii is for children. This is also posted in the wrong thread, shouldn't it be under gaming. End of story.
This post is a joke right?

Getting clobbered of course.

Which bodes pretty horribly for HD-DVD. If horrible PS3 sales can beat HD-DVD handily with essentially both hands tied behind its back, what happens later when the price of the PS3 drops and more games come out? If giving away players at cost and throwing in 5 free movies doesn't outsell a horribly selling way overpriced console, what will? What's next for Toshiba? Give the players away for free?

I think most people are wise enough not to invest in a movie format with only 3 major studios releasing content on it, that's why. That's why HD-DVD was dead when it was announced and you just have to wait for the smoke to clear. They can price a player as low as they want but who wants to support the next Divx? No one wants a player that plays movies from only 3 major studios with the hope and dream and faith that one day "things will be different."

Things don't have to be different, they already are. As of today HD DVD has 47 exclusives through 8/28/07 and BD has 28. Yes, 47 exclusives folks. The list will only get bigger throughout the summer. A lot of them are big ones too. Heroes season 1, Hot Fuzz and Breach just to name a few. Universal, love em or hate em, are now the 800lb gorilla with releases in HD. The backlog of movies they own are second to none. Of course the 47 doesn't include the neutral studio's releases. Your post sounds more out of desperation for Blu-ray rather than support for it. In regards to the BD-J video, it's been known from the start that the BD-J spec was not finalized from the beginning. All those with standalone players will be up the creek when it is finalized the end of this year if they want to play all those shiny new BD-J discs. No bashing, just the facts. Anyways, here's the full list of exclusives for those who don't know.....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856401

P.S. In case you didn't know, a lot of the BD exclusives can be imported and watch without a problem on US HD DVD players due to their being no region coding. This includes the big BD punch-Bridge to Terebithia, which will be released on HD DVD in spain soon. I'm sure xploited will have it for sale the same day. But of course, if HD DVD is dead I guess you wouldn't care.

If Sony ports all their movies to HD-DVD, im sure we can help out with many purchases. Neutrality is the way to go and should solve the money woes.
Yes, $30,000 will help them recoup losses on 100 PS3, which is just what they need to fix everything. :D

So much for The Pirate movies to be the death blow to HD-DVD eh Sony? LMAO!!!! LIAR!!! That video was killer!!! :D

One thing I don't understand: If there are more BD players out there than HD-DVD how come the HD-DVD forums always have roughly double the amount of posts as the BD forums do?
Because most of the BD players out there are PS3s, and this forum sucks for PS3 content. Much better info at the official Playstation forum. It has about 10 times the traffic the HD DVD forums do here. I know I spend more time there than here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBGwOsnZFME

let me add ive had a ton more problems with my a1 then i have ever had with my ps3. other then it beeing to dang loud hahaha.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBGwOsnZFME

let me add ive had a ton more problems with my a1 then i have ever had with my ps3. other then it beeing to dang loud hahaha.

I've had more problems and updates with my PS3 than I have had with any piece of electronics I have ever owned.

I bought a PS3 mostly for the Blu-ray player, but I can understand how Sony made a critical error in including the BD player as a "trojan horse" in PS3. Based on the success of PS2, Sony basically thought they could release any console at any price at any number of launch and first year games, and the general public will still fall all over themselves to buy it.

Thankfully, Sony is being made to see that the general public are not as naive and foolish as they believed. The PS3, other than as a BD player, has been completely disappointing to me. Games are practically non-existent, and the much hyped games such as Resistance, Motorstorm, and Virtua Fighter 5 have all been run-of-the-mill. If I bought this as solely as a games player as I'm sure most people did, I would be really regretting my purchase, especially at $600.

For me, the $600 spent was a great deal for getting a good Blu-ray player at the time. Of course, Sony itself is now slashing the prices of standalone BD players with the latest one coming at $500, so if I was looking at PS3 now, I wouldn't see it as such a good deal and would probably get the $500 standalone instead.

I feel bad for all those SCEA employees that got laid off, but Sony really has to check itself and see whether its worth it trashing their formerly untouchable gaming franchise for the sake of trying to launch a new, perhaps potentially more lucrative, format.

From what I understand the PS2 was initially very popular as DVD player in Japan. Remember, it was the first DVD console and it had that advantage over Dreamcast.
Despite the fact that the Dreamcast had the greatest first year line up of games I've ever seen to date the PS2 upon release was the hottest thing since sliced bread. Really the DVD aspect had nothing to do with its sucess here in the states. It was the fan base of the original PS1, and the PS2 trailers of sequels to PS1 games like Metal Gear and Gran Turismo etc.

I think because the CD based PS1 defeated the cartridge based N64 and the DVD based PS2 beat the enhanced CD based Dreamcast Sony figured Blu-Ray was needed. Blu-Ray would give it an advantage over the 360 and would help defeat HD-DVD. Seems to make sense if it weren't for the price.

The thing is even if PS3 does poorly HD-DVD hardware sales need to at least come close to the combined sales of PS3s and standalone BD players. I understand the whole thing about attach rates but PS3s installed base still shows up as potential software sales.

The biggest problem that Sony has is getting support from the companies that make games. If the installed base is low some venders will decide not to support the PS3. It is very expensive to convert a game to PS3. Sony must sell games or the system will fail. They realize this and they will have to lower the price of the PS3. This will require much more than $100 price cut to get things moving. The Wii is hot now and is still hard to get. You can find the PS3 everywhere and they are sitting on shelves at the current price. There is also a psychological bandwagon effect towards the Wii at this time. With the hot games coming out for the Wii and Xbox 360 the PS3 could be left in the dust. The other thing to consider is that if Sony lowers the price Microsoft will do the same and they are in a better position to do so. This could have an impact on Blu-Ray as well. The sad fact is that both formats will fail if things don't start moving this fall. The window is very short for both sides.

The PS3 is a game system with no games. Doesn't sony know that content is king? ;)

Media really isn't looking at this the correct way.

Chevy outsells Mercedes. Should Mercedes stop selling cars.
Different Market.

Sony has the PS2 to compete with the Wii and they outsold the Wii and all versions of the X-Box comibined this past holiday.

Sony is positioning the PS3 (or trying to) as more than just a game console.
The media thinks that all game consoles are the same. Hell, until just recently they thought consoles were merely "toys" and covered the biz as such.

The PS3 will eventually drop in price. Remember. Sony made BILLIONS fromt the PSone and the PS2. They are taking a calculated risk to take a loss on the PS3 to help establish Blu-Ray and they plan on doing much much more with the PlayStation store as we move foreward.

The PS2 and the PSone didn't take over the game market over night.
One quarter or even 4 quarters won't decide this market.

Sure, Sony would love to say that the PS3 was selling more units.
I seriously doubt this situation was something they didn't imagine.

They had to realize the $500 and $600 price point would hurt sales.
They aren't stupid. I'm sure they ran market predictions and plans for all types of sales figures. I'm sure they have a "next move" they aren't going to roll over and die.

All that matters is that people who have bought their PS3 are satisfied.
Satisfied customers translate into new customers.

I love my PS3 as a game system and as a Blu-Ray player.
I have 3 friends who own them. They love theirs, too.


You need to read more than just sales numbers. The Wii is killing the PS3, but it's not because people are buying a Wii over a PS3. They are two different consoles aimed at different audiences. Sure, there are some people that picked a Wii over the PS3, but most of the research has shown this not to be the case. The Wii dominance over the PS3 is for two main reasons.

1. The Wii is selling to Nintendo base, but also people who traditionally haven't bought game systems. That's the beauty of the Wii. It's something everyone wants to play and it's priced in a range friendly to families. They can sell it at that price due to reuse of the GameCube structure and base.

2. Sony hasn't shown the PS3 to be worth the price for most gamers. Don't forget the PS2 is still the top selling console each month. The millions of PS2 owners who are serious gamers are either migrating to the XBOX 360 because of lower prices and more games, or they are waiting for the PS3 to come down in price.

A price drop of the PS3 will help the second point, but not the first. The end result will be the PS3 selling fewer units than the XBOX 360, but I think it will eventually catch up to the Wii as the really large PS2 base starts to look for an upgrade to HD as 360 and PS3 prices come down. The Wii's success will only be limited by the number of traditionally non-gamers enticed to buy the console because it's fun to play. Either way you look at it, there are 3 great consoles available right now.

As for the HD DVD vs Blu Ray garbage, I don't think HD DVD will be able to keep up with the 82,000 PS3 being sold every month. Especially if that number increases because of a price drop. Also, I think the production cutbacks on the PS3 will only be temporary until price reductions help to empty the existing inventory. Then, production will be scaled to match the post-price drop demand.

MicroSoft has yet to turn a profit on their Xbox division.
They took huge losses on the Xbox and then killed it early so they could
get the 360 out the gate before the PS3.

They are starting to turn the corner, but they haven't made a profit, yet.

Sony made Billions and Billions over the past 20 quarters.
Sony isn't stupid. They will increase the marketshare of the PS3.
Give them another holiday and another price drop.



Do you not grasp that the reason the PS3 isn't selling is because of its astronomical price and the fact that the 360 has almost the same library? The Wii not existing would have minimal effect on PS3 sales.


TheKal made some good points, but Microsoft is not necessarily making a profit on "every 360 sold" so far. On face value parts alone, yes, it appears to be that way. But getting it ready for the store after that and onto the store shelves themselves is not a cost hurdle they have cleared yet.

They are definitely getting close, though. Once they introduce the smaller chips later this year, they should be right there.

What would be totally asinine of Microsoft at that point is if they do not a) Knock the price of the 360 down so it goes for $200 and $300 (or $350/$400 for the Elite) and b) Push the HD DVD add-on harder...maybe even as a pack in with the Elite for Christmas. MS overall has been very, very lax thus far in its support of HD DVD, which is a shame when you see how Amir busts his ass as a goodwill ambassador for the format and informant for the hardcores.

The XBox 360 sells double the units that the PS3 sells, too...

Really and where is this? ONLY NA right? How about Europe? How about Japan? < it is awfully funny that everyone forgets to mention JAPAN. X360 sold very poorly [PERIOD]

Yeah right... Keep on dreaming, dude its been out for so long it has a huge list of games behind it. It better sell otherwise M$ is doing all for nothing.

Wii will outsell everything because of the price difference.

Not to mention all the haters in this thread from the HD-DVD camp.

When I watch Universal HD_DVD comericals they feel cheezy, and generic.

When I watch the Blu-Ray commerical, ( presentation ) on each BLU RAY the whole experience feels bad ass.

Once the games start to roll out from June out all the way to end of year, the PS3 will take off, not to even mention the price cut.

What does Wii offer? A great Input expereince for the player, nothing more. There is no HD Graphics, or anything for that matter. However it sure is the best for Nintendo fans, and its a great platform. All of them are, but to put PS3 down, and dis SONY - only a fool will do that. PROPAGANDA!

So again this is all BS IMHO. Who cares really? There are 3.5 Million BR players out there ( PS3 alone ) with 6million shipped.

Pretty good if you ask me for a 6/7 month duration @ 600 a pop, not including tax or anything else.

Once the MUST have triple A games start rolling, we will see what happens then.

[edit] Oh and who ever thinks that PS3 does not have any games is obviously a blind fanboy.

Released:

FOM
MS
F1
Oblivion
FEAR
COD3
MARVEL
Bunch of Sport Titles
SC

for 6 months that perfect. I love how most of you like to bring how SONY is over promesing ****...

Yet if M$ was to take over, they will monpolize everything, and at that point no more INOVATION... Its good to have competition.

SONY is way better positioned as a Hardware Manafacturer than M$, the reason why a good chunk of X360's are dying... Not to even mention that their BUISNESS plan is far superior than M$.

Plus not to even mention that M$ is now trailing behind in the HIGH END consumer market. Why was Elite introduced? HDMI i thought they did not need that? How about Biger HD? How about 1080p?

Oh lets see, all you have on X360 is FPS, well I am glad that these games alone will justify my PS3 purchase... ONLY ON SONY CONSOLE.

Sony Computer Entertainment
Buzz! The Mega Quiz (PS2)
Buzz Junior! Jungle Party (PS2)
God of War: Chains of Olympus (PSP)
The Eye of Judgment (PS3)
Folklore (PS3)
Heavenly Sword (PS3)
Home (PS3)
Killzone 2 (PS3)
Jeanne d'Arc (PSP)
Lair (PS3)
LittleBigPlanet (PS3)
NBA '08 (PS3, PSP)
Pain (PS3)
Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice (PSP)
Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3)
SingStar (PS3)
SOCOM Confrontation (PS3)
SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Tactical Strike (PSP)
Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (PSP)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3)
Warhawk (PS3)

This year alone... Plus all the other 3rd party ones.

Plus lets never forget that SONY has sold electronics for decades, and are fighting two wars. The console ( slowly migrating the PS fan base to PS3 ( not forcing them ) like M$ did with the original XBOX[which had pleanty of life left] to X360) PS2 fans can enjoy PS2 still, and slowly upgrade when the price is right to PS3. They made a PS2 in the palm of your hand w/ PSP.

So PS2 bringing heavy amount of greenbacks' and PSP.

It will be stupid if they pulled the plug on PS2 so soon. DUH!

No Smokey.. really..

tell us how you really feel

Wii continues to outsell PS3

PS3 continues to sell less than anticipated

Less PS3 in homes = less BD players in homes


1.
So many things outsell Wii...hamburgers, iPods, PCs, etc.
I don't see how Wii being successful hinders PS3's success.

2.
PS3 sells better than PS or PS2 did in the same time frame.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/6172233.html

3.
Less PS3 in homes = less PS3 in homes
More Blu-ray players for less than $500 = more Blu-ray players in homes

WOW, this thread is a powerful troll magnet!!!

WOW, this thread is a powerful troll magnet!!!

For sure man! I mean why cant we just enjoy our PS3 without hearing all this BS?

Keyserose sure said once "not to feed the trolls"

[ps] how credible is msnbc?

Really and where is this? ONLY NA right? How about Europe? How about Japan? < it is awfully funny that everyone forgets to mention JAPAN. X360 sold very poorly [PERIOD]

Yeah right... Keep on dreaming, dude its been out for so long it has a huge list of games behind it. It better sell otherwise M$ is doing all for nothing.

Wii will outsell everything because of the price difference.

Not to mention all the haters in this thread from the HD-DVD camp.

When I watch Universal HD_DVD comericals they feel cheezy, and generic.

When I watch the Blu-Ray commerical, ( presentation ) on each BLU RAY the whole experience feels bad ass.

Once the games start to roll out from June out all the way to end of year, the PS3 will take off, not to even mention the price cut.

What does Wii offer? A great Input expereince for the player, nothing more. There is no HD Graphics, or anything for that matter. However it sure is the best for Nintendo fans, and its a great platform. All of them are, but to put PS3 down, and dis SONY - only a fool will do that. PROPAGANDA!

So again this is all BS IMHO. Who cares really? There are 3.5 Million BR players out there ( PS3 alone ) with 6million shipped.

Pretty good if you ask me for a 6/7 month duration @ 600 a pop, not including tax or anything else.

Once the MUST have triple A games start rolling, we will see what happens then.

[edit] Oh and who ever thinks that PS3 does not have any games is obviously a blind fanboy.

Released:

FOM
MS
F1
Oblivion
FEAR
COD3
MARVEL
Bunch of Sport Titles
SC

for 6 months that perfect. I love how most of you like to bring how SONY is over promesing ****...

Yet if M$ was to take over, they will monpolize everything, and at that point no more INOVATION... Its good to have competition.

SONY is way better positioned as a Hardware Manafacturer than M$, the reason why a good chunk of X360's are dying... Not to even mention that their BUISNESS plan is far superior than M$.

Plus not to even mention that M$ is now trailing behind in the HIGH END consumer market. Why was Elite introduced? HDMI i thought they did not need that? How about Biger HD? How about 1080p?

Oh lets see, all you have on X360 is FPS, well I am glad that these games alone will justify my PS3 purchase... ONLY ON SONY CONSOLE.

Sony Computer Entertainment
Buzz! The Mega Quiz (PS2)
Buzz Junior! Jungle Party (PS2)
God of War: Chains of Olympus (PSP)
The Eye of Judgment (PS3)
Folklore (PS3)
Heavenly Sword (PS3)
Home (PS3)
Killzone 2 (PS3)
Jeanne d'Arc (PSP)
Lair (PS3)
LittleBigPlanet (PS3)
NBA '08 (PS3, PSP)
Pain (PS3)
Pursuit Force: Extreme Justice (PSP)
Ratchet and Clank Future: Tools of Destruction (PS3)
SingStar (PS3)
SOCOM Confrontation (PS3)
SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Tactical Strike (PSP)
Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (PSP)
Uncharted: Drake's Fortune (PS3)
Warhawk (PS3)

This year alone... Plus all the other 3rd party ones.

Plus lets never forget that SONY has sold electronics for decades, and are fighting two wars. The console ( slowly migrating the PS fan base to PS3 ( not forcing them ) like M$ did with the original XBOX[which had pleanty of life left] to X360) PS2 fans can enjoy PS2 still, and slowly upgrade when the price is right to PS3. They made a PS2 in the palm of your hand w/ PSP.

So PS2 bringing heavy amount of greenbacks' and PSP.

It will be stupid if they pulled the plug on PS2 so soon. DUH!


Seriously I have to ask why do u take this so personal? By the way why are you even mentioning the 360 since some of you like to point this out being a PS3 forum what does the 360 and the amount of FPS shooters have to do with this thread?

M$NBC = win!

Seriously I have to ask why do u take this so personal? By the way why are you even mentioning the 360 since some of you like to point this out being a PS3 forum what does the 360 have to do with the start of this thread?

Tossing out "bad" 360 comments is a defense mechanism in this forum. Its not going away until the mods make it go away, the posters that do it simply cannot stop themselves.

Tossing out "bad" 360 comments is a defense mechanism in this forum. Its not going away until the mods make it go away, the posters that do it simply cannot stop themselves.

Dumping on SONY and PS3 is not. Right? Here it comes, the spin of them all...

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=16446

When coke layed off their employees I never thought about it twice and it is my favorite soft drink. Seems like people will post anything to get attention or to spew hate over a machine.

Play games, not consoles.

Dumping on SONY and PS3 is not. Right? Here it comes, the spin of them all...

Nobody is trashing the PS3 or Sony in the Microsoft forum today are they? This is the Sony forum, this is where we discuss the PS3, PS2, PSP and Sony.

Really and where is this? ONLY NA right? How about Europe? How about Japan? < it is awfully funny that everyone forgets to mention JAPAN. X360 sold very poorly [PERIOD]

Japan is the equivelent game market of like, California dude. Making it in Japan, a tiny Island Nation, means little to nothing now that most of the game development for Europe and the Americas is done, surprisingly enough, in Europe and the Americas. Are Japanese developers making games for the 360? Yes? Nuff said.


When I watch Universal HD_DVD comericals they feel cheezy, and generic.

Thats some deep, insightful commentary.....


When I watch the Blu-Ray commerical, ( presentation ) on each BLU RAY the whole experience feels bad ass.


ROFL.....you, my friend, need to seek some serious fanboy help.

DDD has a sale on. After the 20%, HD-DVD's are like $15 and change. Sony's BD's? Every one I wanted to buy started at $26.99 and went UP from there.
Transfer advantage? None....guess where my money went. There are a few exclusives to BD that I'll buy, but again..even with 20% off....Sony can KMA.
They get the price down to $19.99 per disc on every movie, then I start thinking about buying. There's no difference at all in visual quality...so buy the less expensive format.


Once the games start to roll out from June out all the way to end of year, the PS3 will take off, not to even mention the price cut.


Oh please, you and your ilk said the same thing in NOVEMBER....then in December...then in January "Just wait..here come the games!". What did we get? Motorstorm, and an absurdly bad FEAR port. Waiting...Waiting...Waiting...


So again this is all BS IMHO. Who cares really? There are 3.5 Million BR players out there ( PS3 alone ) with 6million shipped.


And 90% of them are using Netflix cuz no way are they selling enough BD's to feed all those players....


Yet if M$ was to take over, they will monpolize everything, and at that point no more INOVATION... Its good to have competition.


You're correct, but nobody wants Sony to go belly up, we want Sony to start STANDING UP. Stop with the endless "OH this cool thing is coming out...someday" and get on the ball. Drop the price on BD Discs so people will make more snap purchases, drop the price on the unit and get them into more homes, and for Gods Sake get some of their expert engineers out into the field to assist with the 3rd party coders to get those games out.


SONY is way better positioned as a Hardware Manafacturer than M$, the reason why a good chunk of X360's are dying... Not to even mention that their BUISNESS plan is far superior than M$.


Microsoft is one of the most successful businesses on Earth. You want to talk about successful business models, you don't 'dis Microsoft dude. Sony on the other hand is now reeling from over-extension. Remember, Plymouth was around for a long time too making cars...where are they now?


Plus not to even mention that M$ is now trailing behind in the HIGH END consumer market. Why was Elite introduced? HDMI i thought they did not need that? How about Biger HD? How about 1080p?


You have no idea what you are talking about do you.......what does the High End consumer market have to do with videogame systems??


They made a PS2 in the palm of your hand w/ PSP.

Yeah? Hows that workin out for them??? :D


So PS2 bringing heavy amount of greenbacks' and PSP.

PSP is a huge "also ran".....even owners will admit this. The movie format for the device failed horribly due to Sony's greed ($20? They were insane)....PS2 is still bringing in money because its the perfect system with cheap games for people who still have tiny or analog TV's. That says nothing about Sony except they did a good job with that device.

It means nothing for the future of Sony......what someone did yesterday is no indication of what they will do tomorrow, PARTICULARLY a corporation whos leadership and focus shifts from season to season....you just can't use past sucess as an indicator of continued future growth. Again, look at every major american auto maker today. Look at the airlines......


It will be stupid if they pulled the plug on PS2 so soon. DUH!

Agreed, the fact that they are still selling PS2's says something. It says the PS3 is too damned expensive and there aren't enough cheap games out to play on it.

Why are people that dont like the PS3 or Blu-Ray even posting in the Playstation forum? How is this thread usefull? The PS3 is here to so piss off Sony Haters!

Why are people that dont like the PS3 or Blu-Ray even posting in the Playstation forum? How is this thread usefull? The PS3 is here to so piss off Sony Haters!

Exactly the question I been asking my self, and the reason I even respond to those thread's. It seems to me its better off to let it go. We can all revisit after 2007.

Why are people that dont like the PS3 or Blu-Ray even posting in the Playstation forum? How is this thread usefull? The PS3 is here to so piss off Sony Haters!

Probably because this thread started off in the HD DVD area.

I'm sure we can all turn to MSNBC for unbiased news on the Playstation 3 and it's future. :rolleyes:

No more "PS3 outselling BLANK!" threads. Warning to all Trolls! READ THIS!
No more threads on PS3 sales figures!

All they do is incite flame wars.
Whether it be that the PS3 is selling well, or not so well.

Also, we are going to crack down on the fanboys in this forum. If you don't own a PS3, and have no intention of owning a PS3... DON'T POST HERE!

Final warning.

Trolls will be suspended without warning from here on out.

Kyser
This is not the first time a moderator in the BD/HD-DVD forum moved a thread here when they should of just closed it....:rolleyes:

Agreed, the fact that they are still selling PS2's says something. It says the PS3 is too damned expensive and there aren't enough cheap games out to play on it.

No, it says the PS2 is at the end of a cycle while the PS3 is at the beginning of a cycle.

When great games come around, enough people will forget about the price to build a profitable market.
5 years from now, when the price has come down significantly, mass market adoption will begin. No one said mass market adoption is required to build a profitable market.

Probably because this thread started off in the HD DVD area.

Kyser should talk to the mod that moved it. This type of thread is banned in the gaming forums because it quickly becomes a steaming pile of fanboy dogcrap. That said the HD/BR forums are not any better when it comes to topics that hit close to home. I do recognize it is a few bad apples though.

No, it says the PS2 is at the end of a cycle while the PS3 is at the beginning of a cycle.


I dont believe that the PS2's current popularity has anything at all to do with its current cycle, its selling because its cheap and there is a vast library of cheap games out for it. Game development for the system is slowing down.


When great games come around, enough people will forget about the price to build a profitable market.


But will software developers commit the resources to develop a great game for a system that has somewhat limited market penetration? Its the chicken and the egg scenario. Sony can help level this equation by dramatically reducing the price on the PS3 and its BD media, which would in turn give greater confidence to developers to support the system in a 1st-line capacity, rather than developing products for another platform and farming out the "port it to PS3" work to a 3rd party coding jobshop.....


5 years from now, when the price has come down significantly, mass market adoption will begin. No one said mass market adoption is required to build a profitable market.

The problem here is expectation levels and greed. Microsoft may not mind waiting around to build their videogame empire, but Sony is too accustomed (as Nintendo was) to having immediate hit-the-ground-running success, which is what they had with PS1 and PS2. They likely built long term strategies around immediate mass-market adoption of the PS3......but its clear that hasn't happened. And its clear they are scrambling to correct for this.

Their list of exclusives titles isn't particularly strong right now, its got a $200 (in reality) price premium over its closest competetor, and while it has BD playback ability (which its competetor does not) Sony continues to price those discs in the rather high-range of $25+ for big-name discs, with $19.99 being reserved for non-recent-blockbusters. This doesn't exactly make people want to rush out and stock up on BD discs when they are priced high, when many of the DVD versions of those films are priced in the sub $10 bins.

Its an ongoing saga with Sony to see how they'll pull this out...which I'm sure they will...but its interesting to watch the path they choose.

Hey all the negative BS that is spinning, its good because its free publicity... On top of that, when things improve, the moment all the BS falls in the water. I don't hear people moaning to much about upscaling are they?

It is all about 1st party development.

I am confident that SONY will prevail, and their 14 studios under the WWS umbrella are shaping up with one heck of a stellar library.

HS, Uncharted, R&C, Home, LittleBigPlanet, GT5, Warhawk, Lair... This are must haves!

Any reason someone moved this POS thread to the PS3 forum?

Yeah because I believe that a few AVS forum moderators are bias against Sony!
If this was indeed moved then mod that moved this should have his status removed, he knew better!

The Playstaion forum area consists of alot more mature and intelligent croud only when the Xbox kids come in here do we have problems. I own both but spend little time in the xbox forum because of this. We do not want the kinda crap that goes on in the xbox forum going on in here, this goes for the hd-dvd children as well.

Hey all the negative BS that is spinning, its good because its free publicity... On top of that, when things improve, the moment all the BS falls in the water. I don't hear people moaning to much about upscaling are they?

It is all about 1st party development.

I am confident that SONY will prevail, and their 14 studios under the WWS umbrella are shaping up with one heck of a stellar library.

HS, Uncharted, R&C, Home, LittleBigPlanet, GT5, Warhawk, Lair... This are must haves!


These are must haves too you not every PS3 owner or ones that are waiting to get the PS3

These are must haves too you not every PS3 owner or ones that are waiting to get the PS3

Exactly my point, and I am not forcing anyone to say anything otherwise. Just don't want to hear that PS3 does not have any games. It obviously does, and all the third party multi platform will be on it as well.

So no one ever said anything that they must love, have them too. :confused:

Originally posted by mboojigga
These are must haves too you not every PS3 owner or ones that are waiting to get the PS3
Which upcoming title will make you buy a PS3?

Which upcoming title will make you buy a PS3?


Pretty much good exclusives for the system. No point in buying the system for me if all it is going to do is sit there and wait on games to come out. At this point it is looking like whenever GOW 3 is released plenty of time to just wait for the price drop too.

mboojigga, has development on GoW3 even started? Has it even been officially announced yet? Even if it has, I wouldn't expect it untill 2009. Any specific title that would be released in 2008?

HS, Uncharted, R&C, Home, LittleBigPlanet, GT5, Warhawk, Lair... This are must haves!

Isn't it better to wait till these games come out first before declaring them 'must-haves'?There does exist the chance that some of them may not live up to expectations or flat out stink.Not just these games,but upcoming games for any system.

Which is totally fair enough, that is why I love choice. Plus I would consider IGN to be informative when it comes to reviewing such game. Plus I would actually wait for my self, I am not that naive.

To top it off, William "mboojigga" likes to talk in present tense. Well in present tense, and towards the end of the year PS3 sure has some slick exclusive's coming up, sadly they don't appeal to his taste.

I dont believe that the PS2's current popularity has anything at all to do with its current cycle, its selling because its cheap and there is a vast library of cheap games out for it. Game development for the system is slowing down.

It's totally related. The PS2 can be sold at that price BECAUSE it is the end of its cycle.
The initial investment has been recovered and it is now mostly gravy.


But will software developers commit the resources to develop a great game for a system that has somewhat limited market penetration? Its the chicken and the egg scenario. Sony can help level this equation by dramatically reducing the price on the PS3 and its BD media, which would in turn give greater confidence to developers to support the system in a 1st-line capacity, rather than developing products for another platform and farming out the "port it to PS3" work to a 3rd party coding jobshop.....

Obviously, they will.
All systems start with a limited market penetration.
For instance, the competition has struggled to sell 10M units, but plenty of games were made nevertheless.


The problem here is expectation levels and greed. Microsoft may not mind waiting around to build their videogame empire, but Sony is too accustomed (as Nintendo was) to having immediate hit-the-ground-running success, which is what they had with PS1 and PS2. They likely built long term strategies around immediate mass-market adoption of the PS3......but its clear that hasn't happened. And its clear they are scrambling to correct for this.

I know there is this idea that Microsoft being so rich they can keep selling consoles at a loss for as long as it takes.
It's a crazy idea, though. Microsoft has shareholders and they have grown extremely impatient, particularly since Bach delayed profitability by another year.

At worse, the PS3 will be the GameCube of this generation.
The GameCube was profitable.

Between 1st with huge losses and 3rd with a profit, you decide who is the real winner. (Just wonder how Nintendo bounced so well.)


Their list of exclusives titles isn't particularly strong right now, its got a $200 (in reality) price premium over its closest competetor, and while it has BD playback ability (which its competetor does not) Sony continues to price those discs in the rather high-range of $25+ for big-name discs, with $19.99 being reserved for non-recent-blockbusters. This doesn't exactly make people want to rush out and stock up on BD discs when they are priced high, when many of the DVD versions of those films are priced in the sub $10 bins.

Its an ongoing saga with Sony to see how they'll pull this out...which I'm sure they will...but its interesting to watch the path they choose.

Their exclusives are quite strong, actually. Their first-party titles have been quite stronger than the competition's.

As far as BD pricing, DVDs were selling at those prices just before the first HD disc hit the market.
In other words, DVDs, at the end of their boom years, sold for as much as HD discs at the beginning of their era.
So, the pricing is very aggressive.

I am sure we can't agree on everything.

Yeah because I believe that a few AVS forum moderators are bias against Sony!
If this was indeed moved then mod that moved this should have his status removed, he knew better!

You do realize different mods have different forum responsibilities. The gaming forum at AVS is the equivalent of a backwater West Virginia town where the entire population of 12 is related and play the banjo. This forum was created to give home theater fans a place to talk about gaming in their home theaters. It was never intended to be a general gaming forum despite the fact that many people who bought a television and a console now seem to reside here.

In essence - outside this little microcosm AVS at large couldn't give a crap and Kyser is probably the only mod who knows about it's issues outside of the Admin who asked him to watch over it.

And for the record the mod presence in this forum used to be zero, this was all one forum with all consoles/HTPC and although differing opinions were held there was always civility and a reasonable amount of respect. I think most of us lament the changes. I would bet money the average age dropped down around a decade or more and that would be highly correlated with the new dynamic.

The Playstaion forum area consists of alot more mature and intelligent croud only when the Xbox kids come in here do we have problems. I own both but spend little time in the xbox forum because of this. We do not want the kinda crap that goes on in the xbox forum going on in here, this goes for the hd-dvd children as well.

NO. Snot nosed punks are evenly distributed in these forums. What some people feel would be PS3 nirvana would be every single member to come here, get down on their knees and blow Sony or not post at all. There has been anti-Xbox childlike crap from the dedicated PS3 forum members when no one initiated anything and we've seen this on several occasions so the idea that immaturity is only elsewhere is for crap. In addition anyone holding anything less then an "on your knees and mouth open" view of Sony is deemed a troll and hater here. To a degree I think it is getting marginally better but that's the history. Don't pretend for one instant that the dedicated PS3 lovers of this forum behave perfectly and this would all be great if everyone else didn't come here to victimize them. They are every bit as guilty of this dynamic and turning our forums to ****.

-end rant

The only gaming forum I find to be somewhat civil is the Nintendo forum,perhaps because the Wii is considered in another category apart from the PS3 and 360.Microsoft and Sony are catering to the same type of gamer,that's why we have the butting of heads between xbox fans and PS3 fans.I do wish that each system could be viewed and judged on it's own merits without knocking down another company.At the end of the day we're all giving our hard-earned dollars to corporations that don't care too much about you personally,just what's in your wallet.Hence I dont' understand the obsession with defending company 'X' with every ounce of energy like I see here.Gaming is supposed to be fun,yet it's discussed here like we're talking religion or politics.

Which is totally fair enough, that is why I love choice. Plus I would consider IGN to be informative when it comes to reviewing such game. Plus I would actually wait for my self, I am not that naive.

To top it off, William "mboojigga" likes to talk in present tense. Well in present tense, and towards the end of the year PS3 sure has some slick exclusive's coming up, sadly they don't appeal to his taste.


Sadly the ones that appeal to my taste are also coming out to the 360 or might come to the 360 based on the rumors at this point. The problem is I want multiple of games that are available for me to get for the system not just 1 game. Thats the way the situation is for me I already have a 360 if the PS3 had came out first I might have bought it at the time. But it didn't, who knows if the situation would still be the same or what it was for me last gen I bought a PS2 and when the Xbox came out I bought all the games for it that were multi and more to my taste. Haze is now coming to the 360 later why do I need to spend an $600 today for a game that is coming out for the 360 and will pretty much be exactly what I would get for the PS3? Rachet and Clank is not a game for me. MGS4 has been dissapointing to me when you realized you were playing Raiden most of the game and I love Snake. I am still waiting to see what the actual gameplay is going to be like and I am not interested in playing a game that has no game play and just shows me a movie of a game for 20 minutes and then I take 10 steps in the game just to get put in another in-game movie. The way it looks now is if I had the PS3 today I would still get most of my games for the 360 seeing how even the latest muli-game are not ported so well over to the PS3(Rainbow) and it was the complete opposite last gen. Games coming out for the xbox after the PS2 or same time release the games looked better on the Xbox. Strange for a system that is more powerfull then the 360 yet you get less resuts for the multi. I don't think it is lazyness at all with the developers I think it is the tools and difficutly with the system. I can go out today and buy a PS3 if I wanted too but their is nothing to play at this point. Next week is E3 so hopefully we will see somthing for me to get hugely excited. The PS3 is a great looking system but I don't care how great it looks I don't care about Hd-DVD or Blu-Ray until they decided what the final format is becuase I am not missing out on anything. I guess I am waiting on PS3's version of a Halo game and like William said GOW3 is not in development but common sense tells me it most likely will come to the PS3 so for all I know at this point that would be a game that has me go out and buy the PS3 just for that game alone. I am simply waiting like most people have been and it shows. "where are the games" There is a difference with the 360 I have been waiting on Mass Effect, Halo 3 but I have been enjoying alot of the games that have come out for the 360 muiti and exclusive. I don't need 2 systems for multi games. The PS3 would pretty much be a system with only exclusive games. When they arrive I will then get it. Resistance was not that game and neither was Motorstorm and that doesn't mean the games sucked just didn't show me why I needed to spend $600 when both were released.

Sadly the ones that appeal to my taste are also coming out to the 360 or might come to the 360 based on the rumors at this point. The problem is I want multiple of games that are available for me to get for the system not just 1 game. Thats the way the situation is for me I already have a 360 if the PS3 had came out first I might have bought it at the time. But it didn't, who knows if the situation would still be the same or what it was for me last gen I bought a PS2 and when the Xbox came out I bought all the games for it that were multi and more to my taste. Haze is now coming to the 360 later why do I need to spend an $600 today for a game that is coming out for the 360 and will pretty much be exactly what I would get for the PS3? Rachet and Clank is not a game for me. MGS4 has been dissapointing to me when you realized you were playing Raiden most of the game and I love Snake. I am still waiting to see what the actual gameplay is going to be like and I am not interested in playing a game that has no game play and just shows me a movie of a game for 20 minutes and then I take 10 steps in the game just to get put in another in-game movie. The way it looks now is if I had the PS3 today I would still get most of my games for the 360 seeing how even the latest muli-game are not ported so well over to the PS3(Rainbow) and it was the complete opposite last gen. Games coming out for the xbox after the PS2 or same time release the games looked better on the Xbox. Strange for a system that is more powerfull then the 360 yet you get less resuts for the multi. I don't think it is lazyness at all with the developers I think it is the tools and difficutly with the system. I can go out today and buy a PS3 if I wanted too but their is nothing to play at this point. Next week is E3 so hopefully we will see somthing for me to get hugely excited. The PS3 is a great looking system but I don't care how great it looks I don't care about Hd-DVD or Blu-Ray until they decided what the final format is becuase I am not missing out on anything. I guess I am waiting on PS3's version of a Halo game and like William said GOW3 is not in development but common sense tells me it most likely will come to the PS3 so for all I know at this point that would be a game that has me go out and buy the PS3 just for that game alone. I am simply waiting like most people have been and it shows. "where are the games" There is a difference with the 360 I have been waiting on Mass Effect, Halo 3 but I have been enjoying alot of the games that have come out for the 360 muiti and exclusive. I don't need 2 systems for multi games. The PS3 would pretty much be a system with only exclusive games. When they arrive I will then get it. Resistance was not that game and neither was Motorstorm and that doesn't mean the games sucked just didn't show me why I needed to spend $600 when both were released.

Please use paragraphs, if you expect people to read what you've written.
Hurts my eyes ;-)

Des,

You been puttin' some big ones to sleep lately? :)

Please use paragraphs, if you expect people to read what you've written.
Hurts my eyes ;-)

Well as you can see the response wasn't to you and if Smokey has an issue I am sure he will address it with me but

If

I

respond

to

your

post

I

will

make

sure

to

do

that.

Hope that didn't hurt your eyes. :cool: No seriously I am a sincere person at times. I try and look out for others well being.

mboojigga, given the amount of time you spend hear, I would of guessed that you were keeing an eye on some game that was announded for Fall of 2007 or sometime in 2008.

My intention was not to make it about the PS3 and Wii rather how things affecting Sony/BluRay (SEC) could change the landscape of HD-DVD and BluRay. I agree the thread has strayed but where do you suggest I post a mixed topic (BluRay/HD-DVD) thread like this?

The "serious" nex-gen gamers all know the Wii is a "two gamecubes duct taped together" gimmick made for bon bon poppin' housewives and drunk college kids.

Onto "the formats": Studio support will decide the format winner. Universal being the ONLY exclusive studio in the HDDVD camp will be going neutral. Its just a matter of time.

Just as the guy from digitalbits said. Why in the hell would studios support a format that is already hacked with torrents all over the place?

Here's the full DigitalBits article for those folks on the fence.
http://www.thedigitalbits.com/articles/soapbox/soap060107.html

Sadly the ones that appeal to my taste are also coming out to the 360 or might come to the 360 based on the rumors at this point. The problem is I want multiple of games that are available for me to get for the system not just 1 game. Thats the way the situation is for me I already have a 360 if the PS3 had came out first I might have bought it at the time. But it didn't, who knows if the situation would still be the same or what it was for me last gen I bought a PS2 and when the Xbox came out I bought all the games for it that were multi and more to my taste. Haze is now coming to the 360 later why do I need to spend an $600 today for a game that is coming out for the 360 and will pretty much be exactly what I would get for the PS3? Rachet and Clank is not a game for me. MGS4 has been dissapointing to me when you realized you were playing Raiden most of the game and I love Snake. I am still waiting to see what the actual gameplay is going to be like and I am not interested in playing a game that has no game play and just shows me a movie of a game for 20 minutes and then I take 10 steps in the game just to get put in another in-game movie. The way it looks now is if I had the PS3 today I would still get most of my games for the 360 seeing how even the latest muli-game are not ported so well over to the PS3(Rainbow) and it was the complete opposite last gen. Games coming out for the xbox after the PS2 or same time release the games looked better on the Xbox. Strange for a system that is more powerfull then the 360 yet you get less resuts for the multi. I don't think it is lazyness at all with the developers I think it is the tools and difficutly with the system. I can go out today and buy a PS3 if I wanted too but their is nothing to play at this point. Next week is E3 so hopefully we will see somthing for me to get hugely excited. The PS3 is a great looking system but I don't care how great it looks I don't care about Hd-DVD or Blu-Ray until they decided what the final format is becuase I am not missing out on anything. I guess I am waiting on PS3's version of a Halo game and like William said GOW3 is not in development but common sense tells me it most likely will come to the PS3 so for all I know at this point that would be a game that has me go out and buy the PS3 just for that game alone. I am simply waiting like most people have been and it shows. "where are the games" There is a difference with the 360 I have been waiting on Mass Effect, Halo 3 but I have been enjoying alot of the games that have come out for the 360 muiti and exclusive. I don't need 2 systems for multi games. The PS3 would pretty much be a system with only exclusive games. When they arrive I will then get it. Resistance was not that game and neither was Motorstorm and that doesn't mean the games sucked just didn't show me why I needed to spend $600 when both were released.

Biggest paragraph of all time. ;)

Valid points. I'm in the same boat on the 360. There's nothing that makes me want a 360 other than maybe Mass Effect. And seeing you like Halo and Mass Effect, how Haze doesn't get you to buy a PS3 is beyond me.

Sony could have 100+ exclusives (see thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=859639 ) and you'd still talk yourself out of buying a PS3.

*yawn*

Biggest paragraph of all time. ;)

Valid points. I'm in the same boat on the 360. There's nothing that makes me want a 360 other than maybe Mass Effect. And seeing you like Halo and Mass Effect, how Haze doesn't get you to buy a PS3 is beyond me.

Sony could have 100+ exclusives
*yawn*

You must have missed the part in that big paragraph where I stated why Haze doesn't get me a PS3. It is coming to the 360 and being that I do enjoy Live my guess is I am going to have overall a better experience then on the PS3.

(see thread http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=859639 ) and you'd still talk yourself out of buying a PS3.

Again are all those games coming out next week or next year? Still playing the waiting game why do I need to buy the system today just to wait for the future. That is exactly what alot of people are bitching about today :rolleyes:

....That is exactly what alot of people are bitching about today :rolleyes:
Feel free to not buy one and stop complaining. You don't need our blessing.

I think this thread has run it's course

Thank you