Read More Here (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6450188.html)

They really nead to cut the price of the PS3 100 dollars and come out with some better games. I know I will end up buying a PS3 but unfortunately, right now the only thing making me want one is so that I can buy PS1 games for my PSP. That is not good enough for me to spend 600 dollars on it.
-Evaneglo2

80-100 folks got the axe so far. Not too bad.

http://www.psu.com/node/11566

Sony Computer Entertainment America is currently downsizing, reports gaming blog, Kotaku. According to the site, Dave Karraker released a statement regarding the lay-offs:

"In an effort to accurately align the company to meet the changing needs of our consumers and of our industry, Sony Computer Entertainment America has found it necessary to analyze our current business and to restructure the company as necessary to continue our standing as the market leader.

These restructuring efforts are currently underway and do include the streamlining of our operations and other initiatives to further strengthen the business, reduce costs and increase operational efficiency. "

It has been reported that between 80 to 100 staff members were let go, although Karraker did not confirm the number.

They really nead to cut the price of the PS3 100 dollars and come out with some better games. I know I will end up buying a PS3 but unfortunately, right now the only thing making me want one is so that I can buy PS1 games for my PSP. That is not good enough for me to spend 600 dollars on it.
-Evaneglo2

The price cut is coming. I have several friend ready to purchase when it drops $100. And with the reduced cost to manufacture Blu-Ray players, we should see a $499.99 PS3 by Christmas.

That is a lot of families out of work :(

That does suck for the families. It looks like the PS3 will be 100 dollars cheaper soon though.

those must have been the people handling quality control for the firmware patches - see RGB Full Glitch and the Bluetooth headset compatibility debacle (every firmware update fixes some bt headsets' compatibility and hurts others)
same folks who let the PS3 pass thru the QC phase with making sure it can play all HD games on all HDTVs

those must have been the people handling quality control for the firmware patches - see RGB Full Glitch and the Bluetooth headset compatibility debacle (every firmware update fixes some bt headsets' compatibility and hurts others)
same folks who let the PS3 pass thru the QC phase with making sure it can play all HD games on all HDTVs
LOL, yes, they're all out to get you :rolleyes:

we should see a $499.99 PS3 by Christmas.

That's still not a mass market price though,I'm not sure if a $100 drop will move PS3's off the shelves any more so than now without some truly compelling exclusives.Even then,many people will still balk at the price.

The 20gig PS3 is $499 right now and not as elusive as most would lead you to believe. EBgames.com and gamestop.com have them in stock from time to time, including right now.


As for the layoffs they are just a short term bandage for a long term problem, in other words it really solves nothing and those poor people have to lose their jobs.

I think a cost reduction will help sell the unit faster than an exclusive will. I know when I got my PS3 before Christmas many parents came in wanting to buy the PS3 for their children, but the price drove them to buy the less expensive 360. They had no idea about what games would play on what. Although I see your point, the bottom line now with any HD components is price. 499 before the Christmas season would be huge!

More importantly, I wish the best for those laid off.

I'm kind of disappointed the sales figures thread is banned, I think thats kinda weak. As a new owner, I find it interesting to follow such trends, and discuss where this thing is headed..........In light of that, maybe this thread can serve as a discussion of what lies ahead for the PS3................I'm a little worried, but only a little.

I believe the PS3 is the most advanced, most sound piece of hardware as compared to Wii and Xbox 360. I believe the PS3 to be the only fully next generation console. (Xbox skirts this line with its DVD drive and stripped down bare bones versions (w no hdmi, no harddrive etc), imo. That said the best technology doesn't always win the war.............I visitied Walmart.com and Toysrus.com and in their main video game feature pages the PS3 isn't even mentioned. (Wii, Xbox360 and PS2 are!) That scares me a little bit. They of course sell PS3, but why don't they even highlight it?

Anyway I am hoping (and cautiously optomistic) that as a significant price cut is introduced (and I expect it way before Xmas), and the wave of games comes out late this summer and fall that PS3 finally gets rolling. I know several friends planning on picking up the system.

$499 for the 60gb will move a lot of ps3's imo. the right under $500 mark will be good for the console. i bought mine on ebay for $486 plus shipping. at $499 for a brand new one i would have bought it new retail.

Sony: Layoffs Not Directly Linked to PS3 -


“This move is not wholly related to any one product in our portfolio,” said SCEA PR boss Dave Karraker when asked if the layoffs were directly linked to PS3 sales. “More accurately, it is reflective of shifts in the marketplace and in consumers’ wants and needs, such as the rise of digital content delivery and networked services. In order to maintain our market leadership, the management of SCEA has found it necessary to analyze the business and restructure the company as necessary.”

Link > http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5884&Itemid=59

September, October & November look good so far on the number of games to be realesed. If in November or early December we see a price drop, things will hopefully start moving fast for the PS3 and Sony.

I know several people (including myself) waiting for a price drop on the PS3, especially since the title library available so far is small (right now probably Resistance is the only one I really want to play) so it doesn't urge me to buy a console. Once good games start rolling out, I'm sure I won't be able to even wait for a price reduction if it takes too long and I'll just buy the damn console.

Sony: Layoffs Not Directly Linked to PS3 -


“This move is not wholly related to any one product in our portfolio,” said SCEA PR boss Dave Karraker when asked if the layoffs were directly linked to PS3 sales. “More accurately, it is reflective of shifts in the marketplace and in consumers’ wants and needs, such as the rise of digital content delivery and networked services. In order to maintain our market leadership, the management of SCEA has found it necessary to analyze the business and restructure the company as necessary.”

Link > http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=5884&Itemid=59

actually that quote convinces me this IS directly linked to ps3, and i'm pretty certain if ps3 isn't doin so poorly there wouldnt be any layoffs in the division. companies will never come out and directly say, "we're laying off ppl b/c the ps3 sales are poor."

Dude 7 months @ 600 bucks and a 3.5 million user base? How is that bad, I mean the marker analysts, and just about everyone else that does not have nothing better to do is going to be talking about sales for ever. Who cares really?

SONY has plenty of room for a lot of price drops. From 600 to 500 to 400 to 300 each time they do that the fan base it will increase. So I hardly care sure it inconvinence for the workers, but hey its not affecting you so you should not worry about it.

Plus I am kind of tired reading these boring news on this forum all the time. I care about playing games, not SALES. As long my PS3 gets great games, I can hardly care who buys it or not.

That's still not a mass market price though,I'm not sure if a $100 drop will move PS3's off the shelves any more so than now without some truly compelling exclusives.Even then,many people will still balk at the price.

You are wrong my friend. With the titles coming out this fall AND a price drop, units will move.

That does suck for the families. It looks like the PS3 will be 100 dollars cheaper soon though.

I'm not sure increasing the loss per unit sold is going to bring in more money to pay salaries.

maybe this realy does have nothing to do with the PS3,
Maybe Sony finaly got around to firing the guys who develop for the PS1

I'm kind of disappointed the sales figures thread is banned, I think thats kinda weak. As a new owner, I find it interesting to follow such trends, and discuss where this thing is headed..........In light of that, maybe this thread can serve as a discussion of what lies ahead for the PS3................I'm a little worried, but only a little.

I believe the PS3 is the most advanced, most sound piece of hardware as compared to Wii and Xbox 360. I believe the PS3 to be the only fully next generation console. (Xbox skirts this line with its DVD drive and stripped down bare bones versions (w no hdmi, no harddrive etc), imo. That said the best technology doesn't always win the war.............I visitied Walmart.com and Toysrus.com and in their main video game feature pages the PS3 isn't even mentioned. (Wii, Xbox360 and PS2 are!) That scares me a little bit. They of course sell PS3, but why don't they even highlight it?

Anyway I am hoping (and cautiously optomistic) that as a significant price cut is introduced (and I expect it way before Xmas), and the wave of games comes out late this summer and fall that PS3 finally gets rolling. I know several friends planning on picking up the system.

Gamers have become obsessed with issues that are not relevant to them directly.

Examples:
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of developers: Is there enough video memory? Is the SDK mature enough? Why is texture streaming important? How can I take full advantage of all SPEs? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of publishers: Is this game selling well enough? Should this game be exclusive to this platform? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of manufacturers: Should the price be cut? Is it selling well enough? Is a new marketing campaign needed? Etc.

While focusing on these issues, which are not theirs to obsess about, they are found missing on their primary responsibility:

Try and buy good games. Try and forget bad games.
Buy platforms that offer good games.

Instead, gamers engage in flame wars on topics they do not understand.

Gamers have become obsessed with issues that are not relevant to them directly.

Examples:
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of developers: Is there enough video memory? Is the SDK mature enough? Why is texture streaming important? How can I take full advantage of all SPEs? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of publishers: Is this game selling well enough? Should this game be exclusive to this platform? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of manufacturers: Should the price be cut? Is it selling well enough? Is a new marketing campaign needed? Etc.


LOL, this is so fricking true that it's weird.

They need to cut the technical support staff of SCEA : every time I call, the operator is amazed at something they never knew the PS3 does like - exit from games using the PS button, hook up mp3 devices to usb, use bitstream for 5.1 sound, etc... It boggles my mind every time I call them. It's like they hired the overflow from McDonald's (offense intended). I had one operator googling info on the PS3 because they had no info on it's specs once. I just laughed at them in awe and wonder. Long LIVE SONY!!!

Gamers have become obsessed with issues that are not relevant to them directly.

Examples:
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of developers: Is there enough video memory? Is the SDK mature enough? Why is texture streaming important? How can I take full advantage of all SPEs? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of publishers: Is this game selling well enough? Should this game be exclusive to this platform? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of manufacturers: Should the price be cut? Is it selling well enough? Is a new marketing campaign needed? Etc.

While focusing on these issues, which are not theirs to obsess about, they are found missing on their primary responsibility:

Try and buy good games. Try and forget bad games.
Buy platforms that offer good games.

Instead, gamers engage in flame wars on topics they do not understand.

My homie! Could not agree more...

Gamers have become obsessed with issues that are not relevant to them directly.

Examples:
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of developers: Is there enough video memory? Is the SDK mature enough? Why is texture streaming important? How can I take full advantage of all SPEs? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of publishers: Is this game selling well enough? Should this game be exclusive to this platform? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of manufacturers: Should the price be cut? Is it selling well enough? Is a new marketing campaign needed? Etc.

While focusing on these issues, which are not theirs to obsess about, they are found missing on their primary responsibility:

Try and buy good games. Try and forget bad games.
Buy platforms that offer good games.

Instead, gamers engage in flame wars on topics they do not understand.

I understand what you're saying, and agree with you to an extent. However I think its perfectly legitimate for a gamer to concern themselves at some level with many of those things you say aren't directly relevant to them. For instance its not a stretch for gamers to wonder if their system is powerful enough (at a high level such as processor power, memory, etc) to deliver games that will equal or surpass the competition's, and its certainly not surprising that gamers will be interested in how their console and its games are selling so as to be assured of future support and new products. Anyone who is old enough to have experienced video games since their inception realizes that competing platforms ultimately flopped and failed due to lack of support/marketing/interest/capability or some combination thereof. This left those who supported said platforms with expensive paperweights. Whether said gamer is informed enough is going to differentiate from person to person, and flamewars are certainly regrettable. However its oversly simplistic and a bit condescending to dismiss these concerns by patting someone on the head and saying "go play and have fun"...

No big shock, all large companies are into cutbacks! Chevrolet and Ford come to mind. One of my coworkers were cut by Microsoft.

You are wrong my friend. With the titles coming out this fall AND a price drop, units will move.

I doubt it,but I don't mind being proven wrong in this case.A price drop to $500 is,in my humble opinion,still higher than that 'mental' threshold that people are accustomed to paying for consoles.Is it a good deal for what it contains i.e Blueray,Cell Processor blah blah?Sure it is.But Joe Six pack sees price,not specs.Even the mighty PS2 didn't 'really' take off till it dropped price to $199.I think we around here assume that because we have disposable incomes(some of us anyway) to afford 50" 1080p HDTVs, $1000 7.1 Surround Systems and $500 gaming consoles that we represents the norm.We don't,and I just don't see people forking over that kind of cash by the boatloads.I could be wrong,we'll see...

A price drop to $500 bucks will do very little to spur sales. A $500 console is still well out the reach of most consumers. In the 8 months the PS3 has been available for sale I cant imagine there is a large amount of people who have waited this long to buy it because it was a $100 too expensive. Hell the PS3 has already been sold, and is still available for $500 bucks brand new in the form of the 20gig.. its discontinued.. but still readily available for purchase brand new.

What does that tell you?

Not to mention the PS3 has always been sold in Japan for well under $500.. yet sales have been even more poor than what they are in the US.

Until the price hits $399.. any smaller price drop will do little to boost sales.



The one area they can concentrate on though.. is getting major exclusive titles out asap. Enough with the delays already.. Enough with the CGI or game engine trailers, screenshots, $30 million dollar gaming budget and cell/bluray potential discussions.. people are steadily losing interest in those projects and many have grown tired of the continued wait.

If you want people to take the PS3 serious.. you have to prove the PS3 is serious about gaming. As someone in this thread pointed out earlier pick up any large electronic retailer sales paper or visit their website.. the PS3 section is the smallest section.. and sometimes not even advertised at all. I've seen plenty of Best Buy weekly ads with no mention of the PS3.

The only way to change the PS3's perception is putting great looking EXCLUSIVE games.. that not just look great but play great immediately. And I mean available for purchase on store shelves sooner rather than later.

I was watching a Attack of the Show DVR'ed from yesterday while typing this.. and they showed a clip of Metal Gear Solid 4. While the video clip did little to excite me.. the ending did exactly what other major titles on the PS3 need to be doing. Using a paintbrush it showed a release date of 2006.. with the 2006 turning into 2008. Before I could even finish sighing again.. the 2008 was crossed out with a red paint.. and was replaced with 2007.

That is EXACTLY the type of thing thats going to get the PS3 where it needs to be.

Personally,I feel that 2 of the 3 xbox 360 models,the $399 Premium and $479 elite,are priced beyond mass market levels also,but in addition to being cheaper,I don't think the 360 has the 'overpriced' perception that the PS3 has over it's head,fairly or unfairly.Now,to us tech heads,the PS3 is a great deal for the technology under the hood,but to the average Joe,they only care about the price,not that it plays Hidef movies,has HDMI,has a state of the art processor etc.Explaining those things to the average Joe is probably akin to trying to communicate with a brick wall.At the end of the day,their only concern and question is 'How Much?'

There's 2 reasons why Wii is outselling everything in sight 1) The new control scheme and 2) THE PRICE.I guarantee you that if Nintendo put a bit more horsepower under the hood and priced the Wii at 360/PS3 level,it wouldn't be sold out,even with the new controller.

dargon it seems that most of the non belivers are all average Joe's who don't care to learn jack...

For 600 PS3 is a steal, a HD PS2, Upconverting Player, JukeBox, PS3, Online Browser, and personal LINUX PC. It works and is used 8hrs a day in my HOUSE hold not just for games.

Since Launch. So it all boils down to personal opinions.

Gamers have become obsessed with issues that are not relevant to them directly.

Examples:
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of developers: Is there enough video memory? Is the SDK mature enough? Why is texture streaming important? How can I take full advantage of all SPEs? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of publishers: Is this game selling well enough? Should this game be exclusive to this platform? Etc.
- Issues that should solely be the concerns of manufacturers: Should the price be cut? Is it selling well enough? Is a new marketing campaign needed? Etc.

While focusing on these issues, which are not theirs to obsess about, they are found missing on their primary responsibility:

Try and buy good games. Try and forget bad games.
Buy platforms that offer good games.

Instead, gamers engage in flame wars on topics they do not understand.

This is a very nice elitist view to hold. Just don't forget where the well water comes from. With the NES there was simply no competing platform to argue about. In the 16-bit era these wars were always going on in the gaming magazines. That status oriented groups have emerged espousing particular sides is just the nature of differentiation/growth in the market place. This is what happens as a result of successful branding/marketing strategies. The problem is not that these discussions are taking place by "mentally challenged" gamers who should just shell out money and know their place, the problem is there seems to be a lack of any civility in the discussion. Unfortunately the only way to deal with it was to simply not allow this discussions.

I will repeat that first-party development is what will win this round.

Counting on third-party exclusives is a losing proposition.

Another new development is the following: EA, Ubisoft just realized keeping Xbox 360 and PS3 even is in their best interest. They knew they would suffer if Sony reigned supreme and they recently realized they would suffer equally if Microsoft ruled supreme.

Hence, forget about the idea third-party developers/publishers are going to tilt the balance one way or another.

In terms of first-party studios, I believe Sony has a considerable lead over Microsoft.
Nintendo beats Sony in that department, but with undying franchises targetting children.

This is a very nice elitist view to hold. Just don't forget where the well water comes from. With the NES there was simply no competing platform to argue about. In the 16-bit era these wars were always going on in the gaming magazines. That status oriented groups have emerged espousing particular sides is just the nature of differentiation/growth in the market place. This is what happens as a result of successful branding/marketing strategies. The problem is not that these discussions are taking place by "mentally challenged" gamers who should just shell out money and know their place, the problem is there seems to be a lack of any civility in the discussion. Unfortunately the only way to deal with it was to simply not allow this discussions.

Among gamers, such discussions are fruitless.
There is nothing gamers can do or say that will affect what belongs to developers, publishers and manufacturers. It's a vain debate, a waste of time.

The only thing gamers can do is:
- Reward people and systems that yield great games.
- Punish people and systems that produce poor games.

With this focus, the rest will take care of itself.

Publishers, in particular, love it when gamers spend hours uttering nonsense about shaders, textures, SPEs, bump mapping, Blu-ray, etc., just because while they are obsessed talking about these trivial details, they completely forget how a great many of these titles suck.

The situation is now so bad that gamers buy games based on a checklist of buzzwords.
Is a game completely boring and unoriginal? No problem, shake the shaders, textures, SPEs, bump mapping, Blu-ray in the face of the public and it will sell.

dargon it seems that most of the non belivers are all average Joe's who don't care to learn jack...

For 600 PS3 is a steal, a HD PS2, Upconverting Player, JukeBox, PS3, Online Browser, and personal LINUX PC. It works and is used 8hrs a day in my HOUSE hold not just for games.

Since Launch. So it all boils down to personal opinions.

No-one is arguing the PS3 is a great machine for it's price.But I'm willing to bet the majority of PS1/PS2 owners are gamers first,and they bought those consoles FOR gaming.Likewise,I would think it's a reasonable assumption that the same PS1/PS2 base want a PS3 primarily for GAMING also,not for Linux,not for upconverting dvds,browsing the web and playing bluray movies.And even if they were interested in any or all of these features,the sales numbers show that the vast majority aren't prepared to pay $600 for it.If you use your PS3 for all those things in your household,that's great you're getting your money's worth.But the past few months of lethargic sales in multiple regions are no accident,and speak for themselves.

So far F1, MS, and ROM were different, but somewhat the same. Much better than done before. I can only imagine what the future holds for these franchises.

Heavenly Sword, and GOW3 sure sound cool, they will have to deliver right?

How about Warhawk, did you by any chance get to play that?

Do you think that LIAR has potential, and why? How about MGS4 if it only stayed exclusive?

What if all the "nonsense about shaders, textures, SPEs, bump mapping, Blu-ray, etc., just because while they are obsessed talking about these trivial details, they completely forget how a great many of these titles suck." Was true?

What if someone like my self, actually understood what all that ment, and how it worked does that apply then? An intellectual argument is not bad, a based argument is though...


Forgot to mention Uncharted, and one other title which caught my eye like R&C?

Dude 7 months @ 600 bucks and a 3.5 million user base? How is that bad, I mean the marker analysts, and just about everyone else that does not have nothing better to do is going to be talking about sales for ever. Who cares really?

SONY has plenty of room for a lot of price drops. From 600 to 500 to 400 to 300 each time they do that the fan base it will increase. So I hardly care sure it inconvinence for the workers, but hey its not affecting you so you should not worry about it.

Plus I am kind of tired reading these boring news on this forum all the time. I care about playing games, not SALES. As long my PS3 gets great games, I can hardly care who buys it or not.


So why are you here then if you don't care?

The simple truth is that Sony has made,and subsequently priced,the PS3 to appeal to people who wish to use it for multiple reasons beyond simply gaming,whether it be bluray movies,linux, whatever else.For those people,they can justify the price.For someone who just wants to play the next Jak and Daxter and couldn't give a damn about Bluray,it's priced out of their reach.Sony assumed that the Playstation name alone would carry them through,but thus far that's not been the case,and sales will continue to be sluggish untill the price drops.Look at the way that PS2 is selling now,it's practically competition for Wii and 360.That shows you there are a large segment of people who have a ceiling as far as how much they CHOOSE to pay or CAN pay.

So why are you here then if you don't care?

Why are you here? Why are you quoting me? Why would you care?

Me... Nothing else to do while at work. Stress reliever IMO the boards are. Unless there is a really informational thread about PS specific. Which hardly happens or lasts on the boards, and when it does "one" has to so try to convince others that "their way is the only way." < for no reason.

Example: thread about a upcoming game for PS3. < - Bam a by stander said, nope that is a total POS, mine is better. Yet he never got a chance to try the other.

Why are you here? Why are you quoting me? Why would you care?

Me... Nothing else to do while at work. Stress reliever IMO the boards are. Unless there is a really informational thread about PS specific. Which hardly happens or lasts on the boards, and when it does "one" has to so try to convince others that "their way is the only way." < for no reason.

Example: thread about a upcoming game for PS3. < - Bam a by stander said, nope that is a total POS, mine is better. Yet he never got a chance to try the other.


No Smoke why worry about these types of threads you so despise if you don't care about the topics why feed into them? If you are happy with your PS3 why worry about who is talking about the negative of what you enjoy so much because you come across as taking all this personal over words on a forum. Is it that hard to ignore the negative if you are so happy. This goes for everybody actually not just you.

No Smoke why worry about these types of threads you so despise if you don't care about the topics why feed into them? If you are happy with your PS3 why worry about who is talking about the negative of what you enjoy so much because you come across as taking all this personal over words on a forum. Is it that hard to ignore the negative if you are so happy. This goes for everybody actually not just you.

Perhaps I need to re-visit my anger counselor, who knows man... You have a valid point though... Think about it, someone like this would be considered a loose canon in the army. < Not good right?

Perhaps I need to re-visit my anger counselor, who knows man... You have a valid point though... Think about it, someone like this would be considered a loose canon in the army. < Not good right?


Smoke I am in the Air Force I don't know about the Army :D

The difference regardless is your talking about someones career vs a hobby unless this is your life or you are employed with Sony.

Smoke I am in the Air Force I don't know about the Army :D

Damn, my mistake. It was a sarcastic joke btw, but seriously man. In my country, or at least where I was born its Mandatory to enlist for 8-10 months.

Anyway, what I meant to say was either way not good.

Among gamers, such discussions are fruitless.
There is nothing gamers can do or say that will affect what belongs to developers, publishers and manufacturers. It's a vain debate, a waste of time.

The only thing gamers can do is:
- Reward people and systems that yield great games.
- Punish people and systems that produce poor games.

With this focus, the rest will take care of itself.

Publishers, in particular, love it when gamers spend hours uttering nonsense about shaders, textures, SPEs, bump mapping, Blu-ray, etc., just because while they are obsessed talking about these trivial details, they completely forget how a great many of these titles suck.

The situation is now so bad that gamers buy games based on a checklist of buzzwords.
Is a game completely boring and unoriginal? No problem, shake the shaders, textures, SPEs, bump mapping, Blu-ray in the face of the public and it will sell.

Welcome to the rationalization of the world and the emphasis on quantifying everything. This is by no means unique to gamers. Find a group passionate about something that doesn't debate things? But I am more inclined to think that the non-gamers are more susceptible to the marketing BS because they are less informed and conspicuously consuming videogames. How many time do you see the bargain bin and think "Why on earth was that game ever made?"

When you say it is a waste of time, you are assuming it is actual meant to do something productive. People just do it as a way of participating in their hobby. Get Mopar, Chevy, and Ford fans together and watch them go at it. They'll debate the most asinine things. Same things with sports fans. Why should gamers be any different?

I'd worry more if these debates weren't happening, if that were they case either one platform became so dominant as to make the others irrelevant or the industry would have collapsed and people would have moved on to something else.

No-one is arguing the PS3 is a great machine for it's price.But I'm willing to bet the majority of PS1/PS2 owners are gamers first,and they bought those consoles FOR gaming.Likewise,I would think it's a reasonable assumption that the same PS1/PS2 base want a PS3 primarily for GAMING also,not for Linux,not for upconverting dvds,browsing the web and playing bluray movies.And even if they were interested in any or all of these features,the sales numbers show that the vast majority aren't prepared to pay $600 for it.If you use your PS3 for all those things in your household,that's great you're getting your money's worth.But the past few months of lethargic sales in multiple regions are no accident,and speak for themselves.

Did you know that the vast majority of PS2 owners weren't prepared to pay $300 for the PS2 all. Sometimes as little more perspective helps with the picture.

the problem is there seems to be a lack of any civility in the discussion. Unfortunately the only way to deal with it was to simply not allow this discussions.

Bingo. This is why the sales, marketing, etc... threads are all discouraged here now. I happen to find it fascinating from a strategy standpoint as the cycle is so long, involves a ton of planning, and the expense is high and front loaded. I think it's fun to watch and discuss and I know many others do too (hell I've been watching this for years now). Historically this has been an adult forum that averaged around ~35 and due to experience had a reasonable understanding of business and strategy (and a real interest and passion for gaming). That made for interesting discussions and some really good points of view.

Unfortunately, these days some people here can't separate themselves from a game console and it turns ugly. For the record, this used to be all one forum and such discussion was not banned. In fact you hardly ever saw a mod in here. Times change. More members, more *******s.

Did you know that the vast majority of PS2 owners weren't prepared to pay $300 for the PS2 all. Sometimes as little more perspective helps with the picture.

I don't know if it was this thread where I wrote it,but I stated that the PS2 didn't really take off till it hit $199.That further proves the point that the PS3 likely won't sell by the boatloads till a few price drops from now.I can see the picture quite clearly,thanks.

Edit: Here's my quote from the first page of the thread...

"I doubt it,but I don't mind being proven wrong in this case.A price drop to $500 is,in my humble opinion,still higher than that 'mental' threshold that people are accustomed to paying for consoles.Is it a good deal for what it contains i.e Blueray,Cell Processor blah blah?Sure it is.But Joe Six pack sees price,not specs.Even the mighty PS2 didn't 'really' take off till it dropped price to $199.I think we around here assume that because we have disposable incomes(some of us anyway) to afford 50" 1080p HDTVs, $1000 7.1 Surround Systems and $500 gaming consoles that we represents the norm.We don't,and I just don't see people forking over that kind of cash by the boatloads.I could be wrong,we'll see... "

Did you by chance not read this?

Did you know that the vast majority of PS2 owners weren't prepared to pay $300 for the PS2 all. Sometimes as little more perspective helps with the picture.


Indeed it does. These folks thinking $500 and $600 are acceptable price points seem to forget that even $300 was too much for mass market last gen.

I don't know if it was this thread where I wrote it,but I stated that the PS2 didn't really take off till it hit $199.That further proves the point that the PS3 likely won't sell by the boatloads till a few price drops from now.I can see the picture quite clearly,thanks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10746645&&#post10746645

Welcome to the rationalization of the world and the emphasis on quantifying everything. This is by no means unique to gamers. Find a group passionate about something that doesn't debate things? But I am more inclined to think that the non-gamers are more susceptible to the marketing BS because they are less informed and conspicuously consuming videogames. How many time do you see the bargain bin and think "Why on earth was that game ever made?"

When you say it is a waste of time, you are assuming it is actual meant to do something productive. People just do it as a way of participating in their hobby. Get Mopar, Chevy, and Ford fans together and watch them go at it. They'll debate the most asinine things. Same things with sports fans. Why should gamers be any different?

I'd worry more if these debates weren't happening, if that were they case either one platform became so dominant as to make the others irrelevant or the industry would have collapsed and people would have moved on to something else.

I see no problem with all 3 having a good market share, and doing good. What I have problems with is when I have to read an informative thread only to get ruined because everyone is the pissing contest on who has bigger...