guys and girls... please tell me what happened to fetts list. i loved it and cannot find it anymore. i always used it as a reference for hd-dvd's. it was awesome! i am having a hard time finding it??????


technoreid

Fett left. There is a new one here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10693449&&#post10693449

When did all this go down? They were unstickied and that was livable since they were at the top anyway, but now they're deleted? Where's the cliff notes for what happened? Anyone please feel free to PM.

When did all this go down? They were unstickied and that was livable since they were at the top anyway, but now they're deleted? Where's the cliff notes for what happened? Anyone please feel free to PM.

Basically, Fett edited the original post, removing anything even resembling something useful, filled it with a bunch of whining about the mods, and that was all she wrote. The mods just deleted another flamebait post, basically, after all was said and done. I'm sure the mods will delete this thread as well, rightfully :)

I don't think the mods will delete this thread

Fett was a whiny little **** that decided to trash the mods after a poll decided that the tier thread was to be made a sticky no longer, any fool knows the outcome of doing that

does anyone really want to know how this place would be with no rules or mods? it wouldn't be too fun IMHO :(

-Gary

does anyone really want to know how this place would be with no rules or mods? it wouldn't be too fun IMHO :(

-Gary

I can't imagine it being any worse than it is now...at least in the HD DVD/Blu-ray forums.

Basically, Fett edited the original post, removing anything even resembling something useful, filled it with a bunch of whining about the mods, and that was all she wrote. :)

That was part of it. Then Fett & Alan Gouger communicated, it was back up in its original form for about two hours on both forums. Fett posted he had enough of the negativity from this forum & moved his wares to another forum. He said, do not blame Alan, & moved on after deleting the info in the first post of both threads.

does anyone really want to know how this place would be with no rules or mods? it wouldn't be too fun IMHO :(
Absolutely. The mods/admin do a damn fine job under the circumstances, and you can always filter out people and posts, that you don't like or don't interest you, yourself. The thread title usually gives a good indication of whether the contents of the thread will be interesting to you or not.

Personally, I visit AVS more regularly than the other AV forums as I find it has a good mix of factual, informative, fun and Wild West about it :D (and just ignore the stuff that's not factual or doesn't interest me)

I don't think the mods will delete this thread

does anyone really want to know how this place would be with no rules or mods? it wouldn't be too fun IMHO :(

-Gary
Hear, hear. :)

the new voting system is great. however, folks must still be reminded that despite consensus, these ratings are still highly subjective and are not judged in comparison to intended look or original master.

David Bott is working on some very nice review software for each and every title. It will put a lot of this bitching/complaining/fighting to rest. I'm looking forward to it!

yes I think that is a good idea, also we don't have to put up with all these threads anymore

-Gary

the new voting system is great. however, folks must still be reminded that despite consensus, these ratings are still highly subjective and are not judged in comparison to intended look or original master.
For me, it allows me to know what movies to blind buy without reading numerous reviews.

David Bott is working on some very nice review software for each and every title. It will put a lot of this bitching/complaining/fighting to rest. I'm looking forward to it!

Yeah, I'm looking foreward to seeing how it grows as well and have already posted my first review :) on the Pirates of the Carribean DMC :)

Someone gave it an 8 out of 10 for audio in their review..They must not have good speakers... Oh well.. ;)

In any case, if you still aren't satisfied with the new reference system David comes up with, then see my sig below :)

Yeah, I'm looking foreward to seeing how it grows as well and have already posted my first review :) on the Pirates of the Carribean DMC :)

Someone gave it an 8 out of 10 for audio in their review..They must not have good speakers... Oh well.. ;)

In any case, if you still aren't satisfied with the new reference system David comes up with, then see my sig below :)
i would rate it an 9 for sound and im running currently running an ok setup :cool: but 8 doesnt sound to far fetched now a 5 would...

Personally, before anyone qualifies for posting forum sponsored reviews, I would like to see photos of their theater room and equipment just like the big boys do.

Personally, before anyone qualifies for posting forum sponsored reviews, I would like to see photos of their theater room and equipment just like the big boys do.
and a picture of their hd dvd / blu ray collection :)

a picture of their hd dvd / blu ray collectionThat too. ;)
Maybe no one else thinks this matters but I certainly do.
I was on the original Fett ignore list because I disagreed with him regarding the value of professional calibration and the resulting issues with being able to accurately rate discs.

Certain people throw out a lot of superlatives and negatives about PQ\AQ around here and seem to be somewhat secretive about what equipment they're using.
Even when people have top-notch equipment and environments there still can be considerable debate.
JMO.

You do not need to own disks to have seen a large number of movies. The size of a collection is more about dedication of capital than quantity or quality of viewing.

The quality or lack thereof one's theater can have a marked effect on the viewing experience. But even then, many wonderfully equipped theaters have a terrible setup, or the owners have terrible reviewing skills. So, I say all reviews are welcome. Having information about the reviewers setup only allows one to see if there is a trend. It does not allow one to evaluate the value of a review.

Personally, I read old reviews of movies by the poster. If the old reviews tend to agree with my own sentiments, I tend to trust their reviews to continue to do so. The equipment they use simply does not matter.

I can't imagine it being any worse than it is now...at least in the HD DVD/Blu-ray forums.

I think there is too much bashing around, personal attacks etc in these forums making it un-policeable. The gaming forums are very well controlled with absolutely no trolling allowed on Xbox forums by PS3 fans and vice-versa. That is exactly the model that needs to be adopted here if we want these forums to be really useful.

For me, it allows me to know what movies to blind buy without reading numerous reviews.

Yeah it sure is helpful in that regard but as far as my interest in debating PQ, I find Xylon's threads much more interesting and fun :)

If he flipped out like that then deletion was definitely called for. Still is a bit... disconcerting that the poll in the Blu-ray software forum was disregarded and that thread removed, but ces la vie.


David's new review system looks great. Just added a review for Apocalypto. Hopefully we'll get the opportunity to distinguish between PQ and AQ instead of one general rating that apparently applies for both aspects.

I didnt realize all off this was going on. I guess I just missed looking at fetts list and finding great HD-DVD's..... I guess I will go to the new list and check it out....

sorry if I started anything - I havent been on the forum in awhile and did not realize what was happening and all the drama.

thanks, technoreid

The gaming forums are very well controlled with absolutely no trolling allowed on Xbox forums by PS3 fans and vice-versa. That is exactly the model that needs to be adopted here if we want these forums to be really useful.Nataraj, I've been lobbying for that approach for months but it fell on deaf ears so I gave up.
If fact many of the banned members of other forums have found a haven here.
I'm thinking that the mods just don't have enough time or the inclination to keep a tightly moderated forum here ala Home Theater Forum etal.

Nataraj, I've been lobbying for that approach for months but it fell on deaf ears so I gave up.
If fact many of the banned members of other forums have found a haven here.
I'm thinking that the mods just don't have enough time or the inclination to keep a tightly moderated forum here ala Home Theater Forum etal.

This forum definitely is not the same forum that it was when I joined almost 3 years ago. There are far more folks here now and quite a few of them have the "video gamer" attitude; ala the HD DVD and BR fanboys. I feel bad for the forum mods. Some threads tend to get out of control and there isn't much that they can do to fix it other than to just close it.

See ya Fett. Don't let the door hit your...

If he flipped out like that then deletion was definitely called for. Still is a bit... disconcerting that the poll in the Blu-ray software forum was disregarded and that thread removed, but ces la vie.


David's new review system looks great. Just added a review for Apocalypto. Hopefully we'll get the opportunity to distinguish between PQ and AQ instead of one general rating that apparently applies for both aspects.

There are two separate items to rate audio and picture quality. Then you also give one overall rating. I think we need to determine how the overall rating is arrived at: an average of PQ and AQ, just PQ, or a combination of PQ, AQ, and Movie Quality!

I don't usually post in the BR/HDDVD forums but this is getting out of hand. Fett was not the only one responsible for the loss of the tier threads. We the users of AVS are also to blame. If you can't keep your emotions in check when you write on these boards move on and find someplace else to write. The mods can only keep up so much, but what is wrong with the users here. As examples:
See ya Fett. Don't let the door hit your...
Fett was a whiny little ****
Just exactly what purpose do these posts serve? I don't blame Fett for leaving. I wouldn't want to put up the the BS that has been spewing all over what was once a good forum/subforums. Take the attitude and check it at the door folks. It really isn't that hard and it would keep a lot of threads from getting trashed.

^ Someone has not been paying attention...

Do you have any idea how many times the person you are defending has himself disrupted threads, antagonized other forum members, and pretty much done exactly what you are complaining about?

Either you are unaware, or are applying a double standard.

I don't blame Fett for leaving. I wouldn't want to put up the the BS that has been spewing all over what was once a good forum/subforums.

He is no victim. If you can't see that he was responsible for a large portion of that very same "BS" that has been bringing down these forums, I don't know what to tell you.

There are two separate items to rate audio and picture quality. Then you also give one overall rating. I think we need to determine how the overall rating is arrived at: an average of PQ and AQ, just PQ, or a combination of PQ, AQ, and Movie Quality!
yah i emailed the admin and asked for more avg like avg pq and aq and overall but i wouldnt mind and movie quality cause some of us care if the movie looks good and is good.

I have made a Backup.... Not sure if I am allowed to share it?

I think there is too much bashing around, personal attacks etc in these forums making it un-policeable. The gaming forums are very well controlled with absolutely no trolling allowed on Xbox forums by PS3 fans and vice-versa. That is exactly the model that needs to be adopted here if we want these forums to be really useful.

Indeed. There are certain folks that are pro-BD / anti-HD DVD, and vice-versa. Each of these die-hards shouldn't be allowed to post in the opposite subforum. Period. It's such a simple rule, no second chances are required. Instapermaban if you break it. That should stop most of the trolling and crapping, taking a load off the mods.

And I really wish there were a better ignore feature. There should be an "ignore this user" button under each post. You click it, hit refresh, and all posts by that person disappar, as well as any posts by anyone quoting the ignored person. No having to go into the CP and then navigate back to where you were. No having to see placemarks for each ignored post. No more having to see ignored posts in quotes. That's not ignoring. IMO, people would be more inclined to just hit the "easy button" upon seeing a stupid post than to feed the trolls, but it's easier to make a retort than edit your ignore list. Make it easy to "take the high road", and some people would quickly end up talking to themselves. Don't know if the forum software even allows this, but I can dream.

I don't usually post in the BR/HDDVD forums but this is getting out of hand. Fett was not the only one responsible for the loss of the tier threads. We the users of AVS are also to blame. If you can't keep your emotions in check when you write on these boards move on and find someplace else to write. The mods can only keep up so much, but what is wrong with the users here. As examples:


Just exactly what purpose do these posts serve? I don't blame Fett for leaving. I wouldn't want to put up the the BS that has been spewing all over what was once a good forum/subforums. Take the attitude and check it at the door folks. It really isn't that hard and it would keep a lot of threads from getting trashed.

I agree completely. Self-control, restraint, and maturity should be applied here as much or more than as in the real world. And I'm not saying the Fett was perfect either. Still, it is a sad outcome that it went to that extreme. As I've always said, I would never envy him for the job he started and was doing. It was basically time-consuming and pretty much thankless. You can't please all the people....

I have made a Backup.... Not sure if I am allowed to share it?

Why wouldn't you be? Ain't like it's copyrighted...

MEC2

^ Someone has not been paying attention...

Do you have any idea how many times the person you are defending has himself disrupted threads, antagonized other forum members, and pretty much done exactly what you are complaining about?

Either you are unaware, or are applying a double standard.



He is no victim. If you can't see that he was responsible for a large portion of that very same "BS" that has been bringing down these forums, I don't know what to tell you.
I'm not completely aware of all the ongoings but I'm not applying a double standard to AVS either. Quite frankly I didn't see that he antagonized other members or disrupted other threads. But that admission really doesn't matter nor take away from my prior post if you read it clearly. I come here to read a few select threads. If he did as you say he did in threads I didn't read, then the mods should have handled it better. But you can't tell me that because he may have antagonized members and disrupted other threads - it gives you (the you at large) the excuse/right to do so as well in the select few that I read. Two wrongs don't make a right the last time I checked.

Overall, I think you really missed the point of my post. It wasn't a post in defense of Fett (except in regard to the "master list" that the OP asked about.) It was a overall post about the unbelievable juvenile nature of posters here at AVS of late, Fett included.

To all AVS Users: Like I said before, check the emotions at the door before you post. And if you have something negative to say, at least do it with some intelligence and integrity and above all just follow the forum rules. It really isn't as difficult as some of you find it to be.

dogdoctor

All good advice. Your username should be tagged netdoctor :)

I don't think the mods will delete this thread

Fett was a whiny little **** that decided to trash the mods after a poll decided that the tier thread was to be made a sticky no longer, any fool knows the outcome of doing that

does anyone really want to know how this place would be with no rules or mods? it wouldn't be too fun IMHO :(

-Gary

that's what I was saying but I guess my voice was a little to loud :D

I was given a 24 hour chill pill ;)

I'm not completely aware of all the ongoings but I'm not applying a double standard to AVS either. Quite frankly I didn't see that he antagonized other members or disrupted other threads. But that admission really doesn't matter nor take away from my prior post if you read it clearly. I come here to read a few select threads. If he did as you say he did in threads I didn't read, then the mods should have handled it better. But you can't tell me that because he may have antagonized members and disrupted other threads - it gives you (the you at large) the excuse/right to do so as well in the select few that I read. Two wrongs don't make a right the last time I checked.

Overall, I think you really missed the point of my post. It wasn't a post in defense of Fett (except in regard to the "master list" that the OP asked about.) It was a overall post about the unbelievable juvenile nature of posters here at AVS of late, Fett included.

To all AVS Users: Like I said before, check the emotions at the door before you post. And if you have something negative to say, at least do it with some intelligence and integrity and above all just follow the forum rules. It really isn't as difficult as some of you find it to be.


I agree, I keep forgetting this isn't usenet ;D

Why wouldn't you be? Ain't like it's copyrighted...

MEC2

Alright here


Welcome to the Tier System for HD DVD PQ.

This ongoing list is a place where we all can come together and rate/discuss new releases.

This list is in constant flux as new titles arrive, so check back frequently.

The titles within a tier are also in order of PQ. A title listed above another in the same tier has a slightly higher PQ rating.

If you are having trouble finding a title, press Ctrl+F to locate it.

A debate we often have here is in regard to "director's intent". Please note that this list does not reflect it. Traffic for example, is highly filtered, with various film stocks. This is an example of something the director clearly intended. However, there is little detail and no depth to the image after all this processing. That is why it is a Tier 4 title. While the director's intent was clear with that title, with others it is more difficult to discern. Since trying to divine it would be purely subjective, it doesn't have a place on this list. If blacks are crushed, like they are in Mission: Impossible III, the blacks are crushed. Some may find this pleasing, and it may well be director J.J. Abrams intention, but it decreases depth in dark areas and nearly eliminates shadow detail, so it gets knocked down a few pegs despite it's stunning sharpness.

3D as I refer to it here, are examples where an item is so detailed and sharp that it jumps off the screen. The shot of Crematoria in Riddick is a prime example.

(bobbed) is an upconverting from 1080i process some masters at WB underwent. It reduces resolution and introduces "jaggies" (stair-stepping).

The following signifiers refer to specific features found on HD DVD discs and do not affect their placement on this list. They are present purely as a courtesy for our members. Please note that this list only refers to picture quality.

(THD) refers to TrueHD. This is a lossless audio codec which provides crystal clear sound.

(MA) refers to DTS HD Master Audio. Right now it offers a core DTS signal providing 1.5 mbps. Later on when recievers become available (and if we get a firmware update to support it) they will provide an additional 1.5 mbps.

(U-C) refers to U-Control. This is an interactive overlay utilized on some Universal discs. Firmware 2.0 is required to access it.

(IME) refers to In-Movie-Experience. This is an overlay feature much like U-Control, only with fewer interactive options. All firmware supports IME.

(CMB) refers to combos, which are HD DVD/DVD hybrids. These are typically a bit pricier. Combos do not seem to affect PQ in any way. Early combos were only 15 GB on the HD side which may have precluded THD on some titles.

PLEASE NOTE THIS LIST WAS RECENTLY REVAMPED! An additional level, PLATINUM, has been added to note flawless titles. Everything else has been moved down so what used to be Tier 1 is now Tier 2. Notice that the same descriptions apply so those titles have not been moved down, Platinum titles have been moved up.

TIER 0 -PLATINUM-
These are simply stunning transfers from beginning to end. Completely Flawless. No artifacts whatsoever, no matter how small.

Corpse Bride
A Scanner Darkly


TIER 1 -GOLD-
Little if any visible compression. Sharp image with many examples of 3D.

King Kong (U-C)Requires latest firmware
Hulk
The Ant Bully (CMB)(THD)
Happy Feet (THD)(CMB)
One Six Right
Underworld Evolution (Spanish Import)
The Matrix Reloaded (THD)(IME)
The Matrix Revolutions (THD)(IME)


TIER 2 -SILVER-
Not as many 3D effects, but a sharp image that feels real.

The Chronicles of Riddick
The Scorpion King
Seabiscuit
Children of Men (U-C)(CMB)
Nine Inch Nails: Beside You In Time (THD)
The Matrix (THD)(IME)
Aeon Flux
Sahara
Ray
Mission: Impossible III (crushed blacks)(IME)
Letters from Iwo Jima (THD)
Flags of Our Fathers
Smokin' Aces (U-C)
Running Scared (German import)
Reign of Fire (Japanese Import)
Equilibrium (Japanese Import)
The Brothers Grimm (Japanese Import)
Training Day (THD)
The Fast & The Furious
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (European import)(THD)
Charlie and the Chocolate Factory (THD)(IME)
2 Fast 2 Furious
Wolf Creek (MA)
The Departed (THD)
The Fast & The Furious: Tokyo Drift (U-C)(CMB)
ATL (CMB)
The Lost City
The Architect
Grand Prix
Batman Begins (THD)(IME)
Serenity
The Matador (MA)Requires latest firmware
The Pianist (European Import)(MA)
Good Night and Good Luck (CMB)
The Manchurian Candidate
Jet Li's Fearless (CMB)
Phantom of the Opera (THD)
La Haine (European Import)(MA)
Out of Sight
The Mummy Returns
The Mummy
Scary Movie 4 (MA)Requires latest firmware
The Wicker Man (THD)
Dreamgirls
Total Recall (European Import)(MA)HIGH-PITCHED AUDIO
Rambo: First Blood Part II (European Import)(MA)HIGH-PITCHED AUDIO
Swordfish
Payback
Casino
Lucky # Slevin
The World's Fastest Indian
Scooby Doo
Discovery Atlas: Australia
Derailed (MA)Requires latest firmware
Pitch Black
World Trade Center
Planet Earth
The Hitcher (CMB)(U-C)
The Good Shepherd (CMB)
Babel
The Polar Express
Cream Reunion
Chicago Earth Wind and Fire
Alice Cooper: Live at Montreux
Eagles farewell
Heart: Alive in Seattle (THD)

TIER 3 -BRONZE-
Few 3D effects, some digital noise/artifacting.

The Rundown
V for Vendetta (THD)(IME)
We Were Soldiers
Smallville: The Complete Fifth Season (IME)
Slither (CMB)
Alexander (French Import)(MA)
Fear & Loathing in Las Vegas (THD)
Dune
Army of Darkness (CMB)
The Frighteners
Terminator 2: Judgement Day (French Import)(MA)
Perfume: Story of a Murder (Spanish Import)
The Nutty Professor
Waterworld
The Road Warrior
Dragonheart
Enemy at the Gates (French Import)(MA)
Alpha Dog
Red Dragon
End of Days (THD)
Poseidon (THD)
Beerfest
Spy Game
Four Brothers
Blazing Saddles
The Searchers
Black Rain
Dog Day Afternoon
Troy (THD)(IME)
Syriana
Space Cowboys
Relentless Enemies
Pulse (THD)
The Last Samurai
U-571
Jarhead
Constantine (THD)(IME)
House of Wax
The 40 Year Old Virgin (U-C)
Lady in the Water (CMB)(THD)
Brokeback Mountain (CMB)
Mission Impossible 2
Mission: Impossible
Happy Gilmore
The Dukes of Hazzard (IME)
Backdraft
Sky Captain (purposefully blurry)
The Bourne Supremacy (IME)
The Thing
Kiss Kiss, Bang Bang (CMB)
Unleashed (CMB)
Rumor Has It (CMB)
Million Dollar Baby
Van Helsing
Unforgiven
Assault on Precinct 13
Apollo 13
Casablanca
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Hollywoodland (CMB)
Clerks II (THD)
Under Siege
Terminator 3 (IME)
Forbidden Planet
The Break-Up (U-C)(CMB) Requires latest firmware
The Interpreter
Chronos
Mutiny on the Bounty
Finding Neverland (Japanese import)
King Kong (1976) (European Import)(MA)
The Bone Collector
Feast (THD)
Miami Vice (CMB)Requires latest firmware
16 Blocks (CMB)
Midnight Run
Superman: The Movie
Failure to Launch
Superman Returns (THD)(CMB)

TIER 4 -COPPER-
Soft or occasionally artifacted. An overall flat but satisfactory image.

The Italian Job
12 Monkeys
The Lake House (CMB)
Doom
Friday Night Lights
Land of the Dead (CMB)
The Fountain (CMB)
How The Grinch Stole Christmas (CMB)
Firewall (CMB)
Enter the Dragon (bobbed)
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Lethal Weapon 2 (bobbed)
Cinderella Man
Lethal Weapon (bobbed)
Goodfellas
Smokey & The Bandit
The Gift (Japanese Import)
The Sting
First Blood (European Import)(MA)HIGH-PITCHED AUDIO
The New Orleans Benefit Concert
Oliver Twist (Japanese Import)
Accepted (CMB)
Tomb Raider
The Deer Hunter
The Game
Superman II: The Richard Donner Cut
Meet the Parents
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
A Christmas Story
The Breakfast Club (CMB)
Fast Times at Ridgemont High (CMB)
Waist Deep (CMB)
March of the Penguins
Caddyshack
You, Me and Dupree (CMB)
Nacho Libre
Christmas Vacation
Sleepy Hollow (digital noise)
Excalibur
Reds
Dazed & Confused (CMB)
Animal House (CMB)
The Perfect Storm (bobbed)(THD)

TIER 5 -COAL-
Only slightly better than DVD.Visible artifacting, softness, no 3D effects.

Lost in Translation
Bullitt
Field of Dreams
An American Werewolf in London (CMB)
The Fog (European Import)(MA)
Spartacus
U2: Rattle and Hum
Traffic
The Dirty Dozen
The Fugitive (bobbed)
Full Metal Jacket (bobbed)

I think there is too much bashing around, personal attacks etc in these forums making it un-policeable. The gaming forums are very well controlled with absolutely no trolling allowed on Xbox forums by PS3 fans and vice-versa. That is exactly the model that needs to be adopted here if we want these forums to be really useful.


Hahaha. Have you been to the game console forums? The flavor of the month is Sony bashing and Sony defending. Say anything contradictory at teamxbox and it is a month ban.

Alright here
thanks !

although some titles were ranked by pop and not by transfer, I still found it useful

cheers :)

"Originally Posted by Gary Murrell
Fett was a whiny little ****"

To bad you didn't leave with him, He contributed a lot more to this site then you ever have.
The only thing you ever post is complaints about actually judging the picture quality of a movie based on what it actually looks like.