Post a comment here
http://blog.us.playstation.com/2007/06/06/ps3-goes-upscale/
and let them know that you would like to see your ps3 be able to play HD games in HD on your HDTV (be able to scale 720p games to 1080i for tvs that do not accept 720p - in the same way that every other HD content device upscales content for your wonderful CRTs)
Thanks - keep it respectful we want these guys to take you seriously

I play games at 1080i on my 720p, I also watch HD DVDs/Blu Ray at 1080i, and DISH HD DVR-1080i...

They All Look Absolutely Marvelous.

whoa! 1989i?? I gotta get me one of those tvs!

whoa! 1989i?? I gotta get me one of those tvs!
lol whoops!!! fixed

Email sent. I'm not holding my breath though. :(

I play games at 1080i on my 720p, I also watch HD DVDs/Blu Ray at 1080i, and DISH HD DVR-1080i...

They All Look Absolutely Marvelous.

ppl with first to market crt hdtv's cannot accept 720p signals and their 720p games will downscale to 480p. if ur 720p tv is fixed pixel (dlp, plasma, lcd, lcos), then u're not playing at 1080i, ur tv simply converts 1080i signals to fit ur tv at 720p. u should actually get better quality if u have all sources at 720p b4 going into the tv.

Forget first to market, try even up through 2004 or 2005. Many CRT HDTV's wouldn't accept a 720p signal, they relied on the cable box or HD box to do the converting for them, which they all do.

Some of the ones that did accept 720p would first downconvert it to 540p and then convert that to 1080i, others that did display 720p did a lousy job of it..there are few that did the job really well.

Suffice to say, I've got a 65" CRT that wont do 720p so I play at 480p on those 720p locked games. I did try them on my 720p projector, and on my 1080p flatpanel, but they kinda looked "about the same" so i went back to 480p.

RFOM at 720p scaled to 1080p on my 1080p panel looks better at 480p on my CRT.

ppl with first to market crt hdtv's cannot accept 720p signals and their 720p games will downscale to 480p. if ur 720p tv is fixed pixel (dlp, plasma, lcd, lcos), then u're not playing at 1080i, ur tv simply converts 1080i signals to fit ur tv at 720p. u should actually get better quality if u have all sources at 720p b4 going into the tv.

I know that.

but if the source is 1080i/p it has to downscale anyways.

I honestly cannot tell the diff between 1080 downconverted and 720 native.

I know that.

but if the source is 1080i/p it has to downscale anyways.

I honestly cannot tell the diff between 1080 downconverted and 720 native.
It downscales for you because you set is 720p native, it upscales for 1080p sets, on the crts in question 1080 is displyed at 1080, and all other hd devices also upscale 720p source data to 1080 for these displays

if you would like to learn more on the different HD resolutions and display technologies, browse the various sections of this AVS Forum and CNET is also a good starting place.

It downscales for you because you set is 720p native, it upscales for 1080p sets, on the crts in question 1080 is displyed at 1080, and all other hd devices also upscale 720p source data to 1080 for these displays

if you would like to learn more on the different HD resolutions and display technologies, browse the various sections of this AVS Forum and CNET is also a good starting place.

LOL, i am not a newb. I have been working in IT for 10 years.

I said. I cannot, VISUALY SEE, a diference. between setting my players to output for 720, or 1080i.

they both look the same.

LOL, i am not a newb. I have been working in IT for 10 years.


Actually you are a "newb".. what does Information Technology have to do with "Playing 720P games in 480P on your HDTV"???

1) Many VERY popular PS3 games cannot output 1080i, only 720P

2) The people complaining in this thread have tvs that only accept 480i, 480p, 540p, 576p or 1080i. Their tv's DO NOT ACCEPT 720P.

3) TV's that only accept those above resolutions will **DOWNGRADE** a 720P signal to 480P.

4) So if you take the time to stop being a know-it-all and read the thread **TITLE** again.. you will see why people are frustrated they bought a supposedly HD game that will only play in a maximum resolution of 480P on their HD setup. And before you ask.. YES a tv that accepts and displays in 1080i **ONLY** is still an HDTV. Most big box CRT HDTVs that were sold before 2004 only display 1080i as a HD resolution.

5) Why are you even bothering to post in this thread if you have a tv that accepts 720P and displays 720P? This thread has nothing to do with you or your setup.

Actually you are a "newb".. what does Information Technology have to do with "Playing 720P games in 480P on your HDTV"???

1) Many VERY popular PS3 games cannot output 1080i, only 720P

2) The people complaining in this thread have tvs that only accept 480i, 480p, 540p, 576p or 1080i. Their tv's DO NOT ACCEPT 720P.

3) TV's that only accept those above resolutions will **DOWNGRADE** a 720P signal to 480P.

4) So if you take the time to stop being a know-it-all and read the thread **TITLE** again.. you will see why people are frustrated they bought a supposedly HD game that will only play in a maximum resolution of 480P on their HD setup. And before you ask.. YES a tv that accepts and displays in 1080i **ONLY** is still an HDTV. Most big box CRT HDTVs that were sold before 2004 only display 1080i as a HD resolution.

5) Why are you even bothering to post in this thread if you have a tv that accepts 720P and displays 720P? This thread has nothing to do with you or your setup.
Correction to #3

3) For TV's that only accept those above resolutions the PS3 will **DOWNGRADE** a 720P signal to 480P.

My bad.. thanks for the correction

I wont bother editing.. but hopefully those who dont understand the problem get a deeper understanding of why 720P games are getting downrez to 480P.

"Downgrading the signal" isn't rightly a good explanation either, when outputting 480p or 480i the PS3 actually renders the games at those lower resolutions rather than doing any sort of scaling.

Regardless, a pet ion can't chance the fact that current PS3s simply don't have the hardware to scale the games. If you want 1080 line output from games that support a max of 720p then you'll need to add your own external scalier. Alternatively, games can be coded to render at whatever resolution they choose and scale though software as Warhawk is doing now, but obviously that option is up to the developers to implement rather than something Sony could add to current games.

I thought they would have fixxed this in that upscale patch recently released??

I have a 1080i only CRT HDTV, its a Sony TV too!

I know that.

but if the source is 1080i/p it has to downscale anyways.

I honestly cannot tell the diff between 1080 downconverted and 720 native.

try one of the sony blu-ray discs calibration screens (in the main menu, hit triangle to bring up option set and input 7669 then ENTER). in the 2nd screen with patterns, i noticed when i set the ps3 to 1080i (i have a samsung 720p dlp 50") the flickering is a lot more evident than if i had my ps3 set to 720p. while i don't notice much difference when watching a movie, that calibration screen clearly shows there is indeed a diff between feeding 720p and 1080i signals to my tv.

try it and see if there's a diff on ur tv as well.

I thought they would have fixxed this in that upscale patch recently released??

I have a 1080i only CRT HDTV, its a Sony TV too!
the latest patch does nothing for ps3 games, it only upscales ps1 and ps2 games as well as dvd's and blu-ray discs.

the latest patch does nothing for ps3 games, it only upscales ps1 and ps2 games as well as dvd's and blu-ray discs.

Oh, thanks for pointing that out. I too thought that the latest firmware update was taking care of all this.

"Downgrading the signal" isn't rightly a good explanation either, when outputting 480p or 480i the PS3 actually renders the games at those lower resolutions rather than doing any sort of scaling.

Regardless, a pet ion can't chance the fact that current PS3s simply don't have the hardware to scale the games. If you want 1080 line output from games that support a max of 720p then you'll need to add your own external scalier. Alternatively, games can be coded to render at whatever resolution they choose and scale though software as Warhawk is doing now, but obviously that option is up to the developers to implement rather than something Sony could add to current games.
"you'll need to" and "obviously" is language that is too strong for a situation that Sony has yet to pffer any official information on. Some people claim that there is absolutely a scaler, others don't, we just got a patch that, gasp, scales dvds and ps2/ps1 games, so again unless Sony (not kylebisme) says that this will never happen I don't see the logic in "you'll need to buy an external scaler (or new tv)"
Regardless they opened up a blog to allow the gaming community to express their ideas/concerns (link in original post)
if you don't think this is an issue you want to support then don't go to that blog and post, if you want them to atleast (and finally) comment on the issue then go their and show them that this is important to you

There is a scaler and there is proof that I can point to now. You can verify it by looking at the SDK documents that got leaked. There is clear reference to a hardware scaler. Currently, game resolution is defined in code and how to handle different resolutions. Given the way Sony has decided to handle resolutions, it's very unlikely there will be an end all solution in a patch. It will be game dependent and Sony needs to make sure that developers have to support both resolutions in order for this issue to go away.

There is a scaler and there is proof that I can point to now. You can verify it by looking at the SDK documents that got leaked. There is clear reference to a hardware scaler. Currently, game resolution is defined in code and how to handle different resolutions. Given the way Sony has decided to handle resolutions, it's very unlikely there will be an end all solution in a patch. It will be game dependent and Sony needs to make sure that developers have to support both resolutions in order for this issue to go away.
Please post a link to these "leaked SDK Documents"
even then I'll continue to take leaked documents with a big grain of salt until Sony officialy confirms/denies said document

There is a scaler and there is proof that I can point to now.
I can prove there isn't one.

720p games will only play in 480p on my TV.

To me, it's simple- if there was a scaler, those of us with 1080i only TV's would be playing PS3 games in 1080i.

If there was a scaler, we wouldn't need a patch, or anything of the sort- they would just enable the damn thing.

If there was a scaler, Sony wouldn't need to make sure game developers supported both resolutions. Devs could code the game in ANY resolution... like that other next-gen console.

If there was a scaler, it wouldn't be in "leaked SDK documents"- it sounds like the "scaler" is a function of the cell that allows the game to display in two specific resolutions.

The scaling issue was the only thing holding me back from buying a PS3, but I've come to terms with the fact that Sony doesn't care about those of us with TV's that don't do 720p, and that's fine. I just won't care about their games and buy the 360 versions instead. The PS3 is a fine BD player, though.

Forget first to market, try even up through 2004 or 2005. Many CRT HDTV's wouldn't accept a 720p signal, they relied on the cable box or HD box to do the converting for them, which they all do.

Some of the ones that did accept 720p would first downconvert it to 540p and then convert that to 1080i, others that did display 720p did a lousy job of it..there are few that did the job really well.

Suffice to say, I've got a 65" CRT that wont do 720p so I play at 480p on those 720p locked games. I did try them on my 720p projector, and on my 1080p flatpanel, but they kinda looked "about the same" so i went back to 480p.

RFOM at 720p scaled to 1080p on my 1080p panel looks better at 480p on my CRT.


Dude you eyes are messed up if you think RFOM at 480p on your CRT looks better than 720p on a good TV.

something is not right.

I can prove there isn't one.

720p games will only play in 480p on my TV.

To me, it's simple- if there was a scaler, those of us with 1080i only TV's would be playing PS3 games in 1080i.

If there was a scaler, we wouldn't need a patch, or anything of the sort- they would just enable the damn thing.


Rather its there or not.. if its not being used.. then it might as well not be there..

All the techno jargon is great for winning a debate on AVSforum.. but imagine how many people who took the jump to get a PS3, having their games are shown in 480P and cant figure out why this is happening.

For alot of PS3 owners.. Resistance is the only game they have purchased.. there is no excuse for the best selling title on the most expensive, most advanced next gen console to be displaying 480P on HDTVs that only accept 1080i as a HD format.

Its simply bass-awkards thinking.

I guess I got lucky. My CRT accepts 720p and does a very nice job of displaying it. If it does convert 720p->540p->1080i, it does a darn good job. Native 720p programs from my HD Tivo look incredible.

I didn't realize that this was such a widespread problem. Hopefully Sony fixes it soon.

Rather its there or not.. if its not being used.. then it might as well not be there..

All the techno jargon is great for winning a debate on AVSforum.. but imagine how many people who took the jump to get a PS3, having their games are shown in 480P and cant figure out why this is happening.

For alot of PS3 owners.. Resistance is the only game they have purchased.. there is no excuse for the best selling title on the most expensive, most advanced next gen console to be displaying 480P on HDTVs that only accept 1080i as a HD format.

Its simply bass-awkards thinking.

Yea, it's just downright puzzling. Off the top of my head I can't think of any HD devices that don't scale. Surely a device as "advanced" as the PS3 would scale to all resolutions...

Please post a link to these "leaked SDK Documents"
even then I'll continue to take leaked documents with a big grain of salt until Sony officialy confirms/denies said document

Google is your friend, but here are some links referencing the leaked SDK:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1017195
http://forums.qj.net/f-ps3-hacks-and-exploits-282/t-ps3-sdk-leaked-110207.html
http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-SDK-leaked-debug-PKG-test-file-works/pg/49/aid/94528
http://www.ps3hacks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=5095
http://www.ps3rips.com/?p=19
http://www.europs3forum.com/content/view/16164/57/
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/forums/post-19755.html

The leak happened within 24 hours after Sony had laid off a bunch of people so you can bet someone who got laid off was the one who did it. It is legit as they are the same documents I have at work.

I can prove there isn't one.

720p games will only play in 480p on my TV.

To me, it's simple- if there was a scaler, those of us with 1080i only TV's would be playing PS3 games in 1080i.

If there was a scaler, we wouldn't need a patch, or anything of the sort- they would just enable the damn thing.

If there was a scaler, Sony wouldn't need to make sure game developers supported both resolutions. Devs could code the game in ANY resolution... like that other next-gen console.

If there was a scaler, it wouldn't be in "leaked SDK documents"- it sounds like the "scaler" is a function of the cell that allows the game to display in two specific resolutions.

The scaling issue was the only thing holding me back from buying a PS3, but I've come to terms with the fact that Sony doesn't care about those of us with TV's that don't do 720p, and that's fine. I just won't care about their games and buy the 360 versions instead. The PS3 is a fine BD player, though.

Let's not spread false info here because that's just contributing to the problem.

FACT - The PS3 has a hardware video scaler.

What really is in question is how that scaler is being used and to what extent it is available.

Why do games need to be patched? Because the system allows the game or application to define what resolution to set the display at and overriding what the OS was set to. Thus in order to force an OS scaling or to allow a currently valid scaling resolution, each game would need to patch their executable to support it.

Why does a specific resolution need to be supported? Because they are only allowing scaling along one axis right now which is why you need to have the two resolution support at the moment.

I agree that there is a problem in that it doesn't scale through the same implementation as the 360. I agree that there is a problem by them only allowing scaling in one axis. But let's not spread false information about there not being a hardware scaler or not understanding at what the issue is. Doing so doesn't help the situation at all. It really sucks for people who don't have TVs that support 720p, but I really have to question what fraction of the market that really is affecting people.

After going through this with the first Xbox this issue makes me want to smash my head into a wall. If the PS3 does have a hardware scaler it is the single worst implementation of such known to man so much so that it doesn't deserve to call itself a scaler at all. Kind of like a tin foil helmet termed "protective gear". Sony is making it only partially accessible (WTF)? They didn't think in advance about scaling between the two most basic HD resolutions especially going from lower res and less intensive rendering for a smooth experience to higher res output. Come on - they aren't that dumb, what happened to make them drop the ball.

As far as the fraction of people affected consider the top 3 brands of CRT based RPTVs as recently as 2004-5. Pioneer, Mitsubishi, and Hitachi. The entire model lines since inception of Pioneer through Elite and Mitsubishi through Diamond did not accept 720p at the input level. Hitachi did the 720p->540p->1080i thing. That is a huge number of the highest end displays many purchased from the late 1990's through just a couple years ago by early adopters who still are enjoying picture quality that is in many people's opinion unrivaled by today's digital sets. These were also not the only brands or models. 720p got more popular once you started seeing plasmas and DLPs floating around. No television made does not accept a 1080i signal - many have been produced that don't accept 720p.

This issue is not sugar-coatable. I may concede that the PS3 has what they or someone else terms a "hardware scaler". I won't concede that it is the very worst planning, use, and implementation of such a scaler ever and worthy of rescinding the "scaler" title totally.

There is a scaler and there is proof that I can point to now. You can verify it by looking at the SDK documents that got leaked. There is clear reference to a hardware scaler.
You are just handwaving here, there is obviously no scaler.

Let's not spread false info here because that's just contributing to the problem.

FACT - The PS3 has a hardware video scaler.

What really is in question is how that scaler is being used and to what extent it is available.

Why do games need to be patched? Because the system allows the game or application to define what resolution to set the display at and overriding what the OS was set to. Thus in order to force an OS scaling or to allow a currently valid scaling resolution, each game would need to patch their executable to support it.

Why does a specific resolution need to be supported? Because they are only allowing scaling along one axis right now which is why you need to have the two resolution support at the moment.

I agree that there is a problem in that it doesn't scale through the same implementation as the 360. I agree that there is a problem by them only allowing scaling in one axis. But let's not spread false information about there not being a hardware scaler or not understanding at what the issue is. Doing so doesn't help the situation at all. It really sucks for people who don't have TVs that support 720p, but I really have to question what fraction of the market that really is affecting people.

Okay, so it has a hardware scaler that doesn't do anything useful, and isn't independant of the software. It's a "scaler" in name, but it's EXTREMELY limited in function. How about this instead:

The PS3 doesn't have a hardware scaler that will allow me to play games rendered at 720p in 1080i.

As for what fraction of the market it affects, somone did a poll here a while back, and it was 40%.

Actually you are a "newb".. what does Information Technology have to do with "Playing 720P games in 480P on your HDTV"???

1) Many VERY popular PS3 games cannot output 1080i, only 720P

2) The people complaining in this thread have tvs that only accept 480i, 480p, 540p, 576p or 1080i. Their tv's DO NOT ACCEPT 720P.

3) TV's that only accept those above resolutions will **DOWNGRADE** a 720P signal to 480P.

4) So if you take the time to stop being a know-it-all and read the thread **TITLE** again.. you will see why people are frustrated they bought a supposedly HD game that will only play in a maximum resolution of 480P on their HD setup. And before you ask.. YES a tv that accepts and displays in 1080i **ONLY** is still an HDTV. Most big box CRT HDTVs that were sold before 2004 only display 1080i as a HD resolution.

5) Why are you even bothering to post in this thread if you have a tv that accepts 720P and displays 720P? This thread has nothing to do with you or your setup.

:)

ya feel better now?

I posted cuz I felt like it.

I know what this thread was about.

I was saying it works for me....so

:)

ya feel better now?

I posted cuz I felt like it.

I know what this thread was about.

I was saying it works for me....so


Wow what you just wrote was so impressive..

is that what you learned in your "10 years of IT"???

:0)

I'm tired of playing 720p on my 1080p TV lol. I bought the damn TV for the PS3 because of 1080p content lol.

After going through this with the first Xbox this issue makes me want to smash my head into a wall. If the PS3 does have a hardware scaler it is the single worst implementation of such known to man so much so that it doesn't deserve to call itself a scaler at all. Kind of like a tin foil helmet termed "protective gear". Sony is making it only partially accessible (WTF)? They didn't think in advance about scaling between the two most basic HD resolutions especially going from lower res and less intensive rendering for a smooth experience to higher res output. Come on - they aren't that dumb, what happened to make them drop the ball.

As far as the fraction of people affected consider the top 3 brands of CRT based RPTVs as recently as 2004-5. Pioneer, Mitsubishi, and Hitachi. The entire model lines since inception of Pioneer through Elite and Mitsubishi through Diamond did not accept 720p at the input level. Hitachi did the 720p->540p->1080i thing. That is a huge number of the highest end displays many purchased from the late 1990's through just a couple years ago by early adopters who still are enjoying picture quality that is in many people's opinion unrivaled by today's digital sets. These were also not the only brands or models. 720p got more popular once you started seeing plasmas and DLPs floating around. No television made does not accept a 1080i signal - many have been produced that don't accept 720p.

This issue is not sugar-coatable. I may concede that the PS3 has what they or someone else terms a "hardware scaler". I won't concede that it is the very worst planning, use, and implementation of such a scaler ever and worthy of rescinding the "scaler" title totally.

Like I said the situation sucks. Sony hasn't been very upfront about why they won't allow full scaling. I've heard some reasons why, one of them is somewhat understandable but not excusable even. Heck I've used the full scaling myself on a PS3 game only to be told I couldn't do that. My main point here is to not spread misinformation by saying there isn't a scaler there or there is no hardware scaler in the system. That simply isn't true. They have a poor scaler implementation and that I agree with.

Scaler implementation aside, I still have to question how big of an issue this is. All I've seen is the vocal minority on home theater forums complaining and let's face it, they are in the minority. I never heard people complain about the Xbox not having a scaler because those affected by it where in the very minority and this problem probably mostly crept around home theater enthusiasts. It never once crossed my mind that it was an issue since I had a 720p HDTV and the good hardcore gaming forums never really made it an issue. So if it was a huge issue here doesn't mean it was a widespread and well known issue.

From what I've seen, most of your core gamers and early console adopters are relatively new to getting their HD set. Much more recent adoption rate than your typical home theater enthusiast, ie, the people that make up the boards here. I've personally got two HDTVs myself and don't consider myself that recent of an adopter since it was my main way of using my PS2 and Xbox. Unless you can point out support otherwise, I'm willing to bet that the cross over of home theater enthusiasts and people who have 1080i only TVs with the people who own consoles, and you have a very small cross over of people who are affected by the PS3 not being able to scale properly. That doesn't make the problem any better or excuse it at all. All it does is put it into perspective with the bigger picture view of how widespread the issue is. Is it an oversight? Most definitely. Does it help you any? Unfortunately not. I can see how this issue may have gotten overlooked though because I really do think that those affected are in the small minority of PS3 owners.

Okay, so it has a hardware scaler that doesn't do anything useful, and isn't independant of the software. It's a "scaler" in name, but it's EXTREMELY limited in function. How about this instead:

The PS3 doesn't have a hardware scaler that will allow me to play games rendered at 720p in 1080i.

As for what fraction of the market it affects, somone did a poll here a while back, and it was 40%.

A poll here is hardly a good indicator of what fraction of the market it has an affect on. Use some common sense and perspective here. People here are more likely to be early adoptors of HDTVs and have a focus on home theater first. That is not your typical core gamer, nor is it your typical PS3 owner. So saying 40% of the minority user is already an indicator that it may be just the slight fraction of PS3 owners.

Like I said the situation sucks. Sony hasn't been very upfront about why they won't allow full scaling. I've heard some reasons why, one of them is somewhat understandable but not excusable even. Heck I've used the full scaling myself on a PS3 game only to be told I couldn't do that. My main point here is to not spread misinformation by saying there isn't a scaler there or there is no hardware scaler in the system. That simply isn't true. They have a poor scaler implementation and that I agree with.

Scaler implementation aside, I still have to question how big of an issue this is. All I've seen is the vocal minority on home theater forums complaining and let's face it, they are in the minority. I never heard people complain about the Xbox not having a scaler because those affected by it where in the very minority and this problem probably mostly crept around home theater enthusiasts. It never once crossed my mind that it was an issue since I had a 720p HDTV and the good hardcore gaming forums never really made it an issue. So if it was a huge issue here doesn't mean it was a widespread and well known issue.

From what I've seen, most of your core gamers and early console adopters are relatively new to getting their HD set. Much more recent adoption rate than your typical home theater enthusiast, ie, the people that make up the boards here. I've personally got two HDTVs myself and don't consider myself that recent of an adopter since it was my main way of using my PS2 and Xbox. Unless you can point out support otherwise, I'm willing to bet that the cross over of home theater enthusiasts and people who have 1080i only TVs with the people who own consoles, and you have a very small cross over of people who are affected by the PS3 not being able to scale properly. That doesn't make the problem any better or excuse it at all. All it does is put it into perspective with the bigger picture view of how widespread the issue is. Is it an oversight? Most definitely. Does it help you any? Unfortunately not. I can see how this issue may have gotten overlooked though because I really do think that those affected are in the small minority of PS3 owners.

You maybe right about this, but the other side of the coin is those folks who bought CRT's because they were reasonably priced. My 30" Panasonic was bought in the summer of '05 and only offered 480i/p and 1080i support. I bought it thinking about the HD requirements of the next gen of consoles. Since everyone one was saying they'd support 1080i, the fact that the TV displayed SD very well, and the fact that cable/directv boxes all scale 720p to 1080i - I decided to go with the TV. The 480p looks so good it is hard to tell the difference in certain games (I have tested it on different TV's), but in games like Madden the difference is obvious as the stadium grass is not nearly as crisp and the models just look far better.

The other thing is that you are right about the biased nature of Home Theater Enthusiasts here...many likely bought the unit for Blu-ray purposes, with gaming being a side thought.

This may actually hurt both ends of the gaming spectrum: 1) Those who have the money for Early adaption who could have been more turned on to the PS3 had the 1080i support been there for there big CRT's and 2) Those who lacked the resources a couple of years ago to get a fixed panel display and CRT was the only affordable way to get into HD.

Like I said the situation sucks. Sony hasn't been very upfront about why they won't allow full scaling.
Again, it is because the PS3 doesn't have a scaler built into it. Whatever you thought you saw in the SDK that you claimed proved otherwise you were obviously missreading.

A poll here is hardly a good indicator of what fraction of the market it has an affect on. Use some common sense and perspective here. People here are more likely to be early adoptors of HDTVs and have a focus on home theater first. That is not your typical core gamer, nor is it your typical PS3 owner. So saying 40% of the minority user is already an indicator that it may be just the slight fraction of PS3 owners.
It obviously affects a significant portion of gamers if there are so many complaints. 40% is not out of the question.

It obviously affects a significant portion of gamers if there are so many complaints. 40% is not out of the question.
and even if it were as low as 10% that still a significant hit to sales if the majority of games on the market lack upscaling, even if this doesn't directly affect someone, it affects the whole community, if this were fixed, it would mean overl increasin Sony's profits thru royalties and more $ for Sony if better for us gamers

Google is your friend, but here are some links referencing the leaked SDK:

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1017195
http://forums.qj.net/f-ps3-hacks-and-exploits-282/t-ps3-sdk-leaked-110207.html
http://ps3.qj.net/PS3-SDK-leaked-debug-PKG-test-file-works/pg/49/aid/94528
http://www.ps3hacks.net/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=5095
http://www.ps3rips.com/?p=19
http://www.europs3forum.com/content/view/16164/57/
http://www.ps3-hacks.com/forums/post-19755.html

The leak happened within 24 hours after Sony had laid off a bunch of people so you can bet someone who got laid off was the one who did it. It is legit as they are the same documents I have at work.
Thanks for links to people on other forums saying that the SDK got leaked, but then again that is the same thing as you did here. Some anonymous guy types the words "SDK Leak" and someone elese types "Yeah I work in the gaming industry, and can confirm this" and then try and prove it by linking to other forums with other anonymous people typing the same thing.
Like I said huge grain of salt. link to the "documents" if they exist, or don't it doesn't change anything, however if you feel inclined to visit the developers blog I linked to in the OP and add a comment of support thanks,
if you would like to suggest that it might not be that big of deal then I suggest that its easy to take that point of view when you are not directly affected. I too have 2 HDTVs, I prefer the better picture quality of my CRT and would like to play HD games on that HDTV, this console doesn't always let me do that

try one of the sony blu-ray discs calibration screens (in the main menu, hit triangle to bring up option set and input 7669 then ENTER). in the 2nd screen with patterns, i noticed when i set the ps3 to 1080i (i have a samsung 720p dlp 50") the flickering is a lot more evident than if i had my ps3 set to 720p. while i don't notice much difference when watching a movie, that calibration screen clearly shows there is indeed a diff between feeding 720p and 1080i signals to my tv.

try it and see if there's a diff on ur tv as well.I too have a SAMSUNG DLP 50" 720P Native. So would it be better on the display resolution configuration to just remove the check on 1080i so it would always default to 720P instead?

If you did that you'd miss out on the extra fedility of games that can be rendered at resolutions higher than 720p when you have 1080i enabled.

Thanks for links to people on other forums saying that the SDK got leaked, but then again that is the same thing as you did here. Some anonymous guy types the words "SDK Leak" and someone elese types "Yeah I work in the gaming industry, and can confirm this" and then try and prove it by linking to other forums with other anonymous people typing the same thing.
Like I said huge grain of salt. link to the "documents" if they exist, or don't it doesn't change anything, however if you feel inclined to visit the developers blog I linked to in the OP and add a comment of support thanks,
if you would like to suggest that it might not be that big of deal then I suggest that its easy to take that point of view when you are not directly affected. I too have 2 HDTVs, I prefer the better picture quality of my CRT and would like to play HD games on that HDTV, this console doesn't always let me do that

You can stick your head in the sand and ignore the reality of the situation, but it sounds like you're not going to believe it unless Sony comes right out and announces the SDK has been leaked which they won't do. It's widely known among the hackers and mod community that the SDK has been leaked as well as a dev firmware. There have been findings already that have been posted about certain things. Even an exploit to boot burned games has been found. I can't post the document here. I can't post a link here. I can't post the SDK here. It would be illegal and I'm sure against forum policy to do such an act. You can google it or find it in newsgroups quite easily if you bother to search which I bet you won't since you want to live in denial.

How do I know it's legit? Because a friend of mine asked me to verify it was legit as he did d/l the content and since I am a developer and do have access to it, I knew exactly what the contents looked like and they were the same. Google for it, you'll find it pretty easy if you look hard enough.

As for my stance on it, I have both a LCD Projection and a CRT tube HDTV, both support 720p so I have the option to view on either. However, even if I had 1080i only TV, I would still have the same stance. I would think it sucks, but I would also have a reasonable and realistic perspective on it. The way the scaler is implemented makes my job more difficult so in a way it does affect me. But in a realistic view where I don't use myself as the center of the universe, I still view it that way. I know that doesn't help those that are affected, and again it sucks, but you have to look at the bigger picture of things. It's like looking at something that breaks for someone. Sure it sucks for them, but how huge of a problem is the breaking in general. That is what I'm talking about here.

Again, there is no scalier in the PS3. You said you can point to it in the leaked SDK, but you can't because it isn't there. You can point to it on a picture of the motherboard either, quite simply because there isn't a scalier built into the PS3.

I'm not denying that you are a dev or that the sdk was leaked, just saying that its irrelevant, I have no way of knowing whether either is true and whether its true has no bearing on the fac that the ps3 doesn't upscale and that myself and others feel it should, or at least have Sony come out right and tell consumers whether or not it ever will.
I think it boarders on dishonest that unless a consumer did a certain amount of research beyond what he could do by walking into a store, he/she could buy a $600 game system that says "HD Games" hook said system up to his "HDTV" and have games play in 480.
There is no information on the box that specifies that this would be the case.
Regardless of how many people are affected I would like to see Sony address the issue in some way (even if it saying it wont happen). to that end I am trying to direct people who also want Sony to address it to a Blog that Sony set up to be able to collect feedback from consumers

but know this as a dev - if you make a game that does not scale 720p to 1080 (or render in 1080) there are a number of people who will not buy the game for that reason alone - no matter how good it is. there are lists of such games out there for this specific purpose and to allow people who are not knowledgeable about this situation avoid buying a game only to be suprised that it does not play in HD
so as a dev this does affect you, because if you do not deliver a product that meets the needs of this minority of the gaming population (whatever percentage you'd like to gamble it is) the group will not buy the game and so you will sell less games due to this situation

Darknight, you can lead the horses to water, but you can't make them drink. Let newbs fend for themselves. People will continue to ignore evidence and logic in order to stick to their personal agenda. Some of the posts in this thread are simply incredible with their blatant disregard for facts.

Does anyone think that every PS3 game that releases from now on will be either 1920x1080 or 960x1080? I don't. With a halfway decent scaler, this wouldn't even be an issue.

Darknight, you can lead the horses to water, but you can't make them drink. Let newbs fend for themselves. People will continue to ignore evidence and logic in order to stick to their personal agenda. Some of the posts in this thread are simply incredible with their blatant disregard for facts.
Evidence and logic, like... 720p games don't play in 1080i? That's more evidence than a possible reference in leaked documents about the firmware.