i cam across this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=652716 some time back but was not 100% clear whether or not HD DVDs (or even BRs) are anamorphic. The answer seems to be "no" but again I am not 100% sure.

When the movie says "1080p" are we really getting full 1920x1080 resolution?
Are the black bars generated by our disc players or are they encoded as part of the HD disc?

If HD discs are not anamorphic, why is this?

Standard definition masters are retangular pixel based, which makes them anamorphic.

High definition masters are squard pixel based. They are not anamorphic.

fitprod

Display ratios for HD/BD
Anamorphic for DVD simply meant that the 'black bars' weren't part of the print; rather they were produced by the DVD player. So those of us with a 16:9 TV would get a "full screen" image with a 1.78:1 or 1.85:1 movie and minimal black bars with a 2.35:1 movie. Non-anamorphic DVD's had the black bars as part of the image stored on the disc so you would have to use your TV's zoom function if you had a widescreen so you didn't have black bars on the side and as well as top and bottom.

Every BD and HD DVD are "anamorphic" (IE: if you have a 4:3 HD DVD, which is not likely, the black bars are not part of the image stored on the disc).

I recieved a PM from a fellow AVS member stating the above. This seems to conflict with fitprod's statement?

"anamorphic" means that the image is 'squished' on the disc and then expanded by the player when you press play. If that's what you mean, then no, HD-DVDs are not anamorphic. If you mean "optimized for wide-screen displays", then you're not using the technically correct term, but yes they are. A 1080p HD-DVD really contains the full 1920x1080 pixels -- if you look in the HDTV software media discussion forum you can find some threads with raw screenshots captured directly from the discs and see for yourself.

Note, however, that not all films have a 16x9 aspect ratio. Some have 4x3 or 2.35:1 or other ratios and in these cases part of the image will be black in order to frame the film properly. So in these cases even though 1920x1080 resolution is encoded on the disc part of this resolution is "wasted".

Are the black bars generated by our disc players or are they encoded as part of the HD disc?


When you say black bars I am assuming you mean letterboxing and those are encoded on the disk because they are presented in the aspect ratio that the film was presented in. Unless you use a projector you can expect to see some black bars on certain OAR films (2.35:1 for example) till the end of time. 1.78:1 and 1.85:1 films will be “barless” on 16x9 TVs. For more information about that topic look at the aspect ratio thread in this forum.

Rastor, fistofsouth, I think I may be using the term incorrectly. I think what I am really asking "what does 1080p on the back of the HD DVD box really mean?"

So with 1.78 aspect ratio movies the image has full 1920x1080 pixels but with 2.35 movies we are in fact losing some of the "1080 pixels" to black bars. I hope I got this right now.

Rastor, fistofsouth, I think I may be using the term incorrectly. I think what I am really asking "what does 1080p on the back of the HD DVD box really mean?"

So with 1.78 aspect ratio movies the image has full 1920x1080 pixels but with 2.35 movies we are in fact losing some of the "1080 pixels" to black bars. I hope I got this right now.

Pretty much. And those black bars are super crystal clear too :)

So with 1.78 aspect ratio movies the image has full 1920x1080 pixels but with 2.35 movies we are in fact losing some of the "1080 pixels" to black bars. I hope I got this right now.

Yep. 1.78:1 films will use the full 1080 lines of vertical resolution. 1.85:1 is 1036. 2.35:1 is 810.

Standard definition masters are retangular pixel based, which makes them anamorphic.

High definition masters are squard pixel based. They are not anamorphic.

fitprod

Yea, anamorphic only has to do with the shape of the pixels.

Yep. 1.78:1 films will use the full 1080 lines of vertical resolution. 1.85:1 is 1036. 2.35:1 is 810.


So I guess Casablanca is 1440x1080 (4x3) approximately?

Yep.

So I guess Casablanca is 1440x1080 (4x3) approximately?
Yep.

hi,

that really interests me.
so, is there a flag or controllbit, that says "don't stretch to standardized 16:9" for these REAL 4:3 movies?

e.g. hdv cams record in 1440*1080 and has to stretch it to 16:9 to fullfill the hdtv requirements of being 16:9.

so, is there somekind of "retro anamorph" or "anamorph2" for...
firstly strechting a 2.40 movie from full frame 16:9 to 2.40 and
secondly for leaving a 4:3 in that mode (1440:1080) and just adding the black bars by the player.
and lastly, I have som German wmv-hd-dvds and there are 2.40 movies on it, but the just cropped the image without toughing the image (no eggheads), so that there are some movies with 1280*544 res, olthough the 720p movie should have to be 1280*720, so they spared th eblack bars and get somefree mbs for the real image, that otherwisely would have been used to store the letterbox bars.

thx for any answer.

greets, Andreas

In the case of Casablana and Adventure of Robin Hood, black bars are added to the left and right on the 16 x 9 HD master. All features with an OAR < 1.78 are/should be designed this way.

In the case of features that have and OAR > 1.78 will include black bars on the top and bottom of the HD master.

Again, there is no anamorphic encoding involved with any HD discs. Neither HD Disc spec is designed for this option.

fitprod

Standard definition masters are retangular pixel based, which makes them anamorphic.

High definition masters are squard pixel based. They are not anamorphic.

fitprod

Note that Standard definition DVDs use non-square sampling whether they are anamorphic or not (NTSC uses non-square sampling). Whether the sampling is or is not square does not have bearing on whether the title is anamorphically enhanced or not.

Thanks Chris...

I've been around this stuff for years, and it can still be confusing as hell. I never really had to deal with the square pixel vs non-square pixel issues until dabbling with HD masters...

fitprod