I have no problem backing BD either, if in fact it is crowned the champion by early next year.

I do have a question for everyone cheering this though. Blockbuster is backing BD in their rollout because it is outrenting HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin.

And everyone is cheering and saying how logical and smart this is.

So, what if Blockbuster said that since Xbox 360 rentals are out-renting PS3 rentals by a 7-1 margin that they are no longer going to rent PS3 games?

Would you guys still think this was a great logical choice and "good" for consumers? Very good but this doesn't apply since, by and large, we've always had one clear format to get all our movies on with no "exclusive" movies existing elsewhere - whereas for videogames it has always been the opposite with exclusives games being a standard for every console since the beginning of time. Also console hardware has very unique strengths in and of themselves. All movie player machines essentially do the same function in the same way.

retailers won't try to help struggling format - they want the war to end asap. xmas sales are their lifeblood.

If they cant sell the discs for the format, why help the format limp along? I bet they make more money selling BD players then hd-dvd players by a HUGE margin. We all know that B&M sales are also putrid for hd-dvd, since 90% of hd-dvd owners tend to be on the internet and buy from amazon. Just makes sense to drop hd-dvd altogether for places like Best Buy, push the software/hardware that brings in the BIG profit (blu-ray), and make everyone happy. Blockbuster is just the start of the chain reaction...

New A2 owner here. No way around it, this is bad news for HD-DVD. Very surprised myself; this is way early for a retailer to declare a preference considering current customer bases for HD players. I use BB Total Access and rent HD-DVDs, so I am glad to see they are keeping them available online at least.

I told myself from the start that I was buying HD-DVD because it was a good upconverter for $8 more than an Oppo 981 and that's held true. Though, I think this is the first (but not last) real nail in the HD-DVD coffin. There are plenty more moves to be made on both sides, but this is certainly a big round for Blu-Ray.

I see you are new here. Have you followed any of the threads that tried to deal with this issue?

NOT ONE poster has ANY proof of ANY kind to add merit to this fiction that Toshiba is losing money on ANY of it's HD DVD players OTHER than the A1 of which there was a June 2006 article by isupply that showed it was (they tear down CE and show what the components cost versus the MSRP.)

So if you would also like to waste your time and try to come up with ANYTHING that shows direct proof that this is a fact . . and not fiction.

We are all ears!


so the total cost of the product is the sum of cost of its parts? marketing, research and development don't count i guess.

Blockbuster is just the start of the chain reaction...

I hope you are right. We shall see!

This deal is more complicated than that and involves more players than just BB, I suspect, but it essentially works out to the same thing, only not so shady. Just low. But this is business we're talking about. and this is Sony we're talking about, so....

I think you are reading into this way too much.
Fact: Both HD DVD and Blu-Ray are niche formats
Fact: According to Nielsen Videoscan Blu-Ray has outsold HD DVD in 2007 by a wide margin. HD media sales as reported by Nielsen in 2007 show Blu-Ray capturing almost 70% of the market (YTD).

According to the press release, Blockbuster stated that Blu-Ray rentals made up 70% of their HD rentals. This certainly jives with the sales data. Blockbuster made a business decision for their local stores to support the better selling of the two niche formats. It is that simple. They still offer HD DVD rentals online (for now). It is almost July and according to Nielsen, HD DVD has not won one week of sales this year. Look at the signs, they are all around you..

so the total cost of the product is the sum of cost of its parts? marketing, research and development don't count i guess.

For this Forum and "the statement" . . . no they don't.

From the Associated Press


Quote:
AP Exclusive:
Blockbuster to favor Blu-ray HD discs over DVD format
By Gary Gentile / AP Business Writer
Article Launched: 06/17/2007 02:40:24 PM MDT

LOS ANGELES - Blockbuster Inc. will rent high-definition DVDs only in the Blu-ray format in 1,450 stores when it expands its high-def offerings next month, dealing a major blow to the rival HD DVD format.
The move, being announced Monday, could be the first step in resolving a format war that has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Blockbuster has been renting both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in 250 stores since late last year and found that consumers were choosing Blu-ray titles more than 70 percent of the time.

"The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbuster, told The Associated Press.

Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online, the Dallas-based company said.

The decision was helped in large part by the lopsided availability of titles in Blu-ray, Smith said. All major studios except one

Advertisement

are releasing films in Blu-ray, with several, including The Walt Disney Co., releasing exclusively in Blu-ray. Only Universal Studios, which is owned by General Electric Co., exclusively supports HD DVD.
Warner Bros., a unit of Time Warner Inc., and Paramount Pictures, which is owned by Viacom Inc., release films in both formats.

"When you walk into a store and see all this product available in Blu-ray and there is less available on HD DVD, I think the consumer gets that," Smith said.

The rollout of Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 game console, which comes standard with a Blu-ray drive, also helped give the format momentum, Smith said.

Blockbuster's decision, while significant on it's own, could boost Blu-ray even more if other retailers follow suit.

"It will help shift the balance toward Blu-ray, clearly," said Richard Doherty, president of The Envisioneering Group, a research company.

The North American HD DVD Promotional Group said Blockbuster's decision was shortsighted and skewed by the success of films released by Blu-ray studios in the first three months of the year. The group said HD DVD has since gained momentum, selling more players and popular titles such as "The 40-Year Old Virgin" and "The Matrix" trilogy.

"I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group.

The two formats have been battling it out since they both hit the market last year. Studios hope the high-definition discs, with their sharper picture and more room for interactive special features and games, will replace standard definition DVDs.

The formats are incompatible and neither will play on standard DVD players, although standard DVDs can be viewed with either a Blu-ray or HD DVD player.

The Blu-ray camp has been helped by the release of such huge hits as "Casino Royale," ''Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Spider-Man" coming out exclusively in its format.

As the battle has unfolded, the price of the high-definition players needed to show the movies has plummeted. Toshiba Corp., the major supporter of HD DVD, is selling its player for $299 with a rebate, down from $499 when it first went on sale.

Sony, which is pushing Blu-ray, recently slashed the price of its player by more than half to $499. The player retailed for $1,000 when it first was introduced.


__________________
Jaws on HD-DVD? We're gonna need a bigger disc!



I'm an HD-DVD supporter and there's no way to spin this into a positive. This is good news for Blu-ray... for real! :(

As if BB can't add HD DVDs in the future if demand warrants it. After all, companies change their strategies all the time.

New A2 owner here. No way around it, this is bad news for HD-DVD. Very surprised myself; this is way early for a retailer to declare a preference considering current customer bases for HD players. I use BB Total Access and rent HD-DVDs, so I am glad to see they are keeping them available online at least.

I told myself from the start that I was buying HD-DVD because it was a good upconverter for $8 more than an Oppo 981 and that's held true. Though, I think this is the first (but not last) real nail in the HD-DVD coffin. There are plenty more moves to be made on both sides, but this is certainly a big round for Blu-Ray.

I feel the same way (A2 owner and Blu-Ray player owner). I don't think this is the death of HD DVD at all, but it certainly hurts their image and many people that were waiting on the fence may jump to camp Blu now..

It amazes me still that people are convinced that unlike Laserdiscs that never got past early adoption, somehow this and the destruction of HD DVD will mean everyone who wasn't going to spend $500 and up on a Blu-ray player was going to magically have a change of heart and run right out to Best Buy. Candy canes and gumdrops will fall from the sky as people rush right out to buy their BD players.

Of course, I am on an enthousiast site where money seems not to be an issue to most people. That's why there is a vast disconnect. That's why I see one format at this time becoming the next great Laserdisc. Those of us in the mainstream will simply be priced out of this and stick with renting regular DVD's from Redbox and downloading HD movies on Xbox Live. Congratulations BDA. :cool: Good points but wow, there is a lot of negative thinking going on there.

Couple things:
1) Player prices are destined to come down
2) There is a greater chance of mainstream success if a format war that confuses even the enthusiasts is out of the way than the other way around
3) People are more used to and into collecting movies, high-def, and such in general due to the popularity of SD DVD, HDTVs, HD TV programming, etc. The Playstation 3 has BD as a trojan horse and millions will buy that for gaming alone over the next few years.

So all the above things considered, it looks like the mainstream will be very willing to make the upgrade to HD physical media if there is generally one clear and healthy format out there.

I mean, especially as time passes and new prices/hardware/content/HDTVs start making "old SD DVD" look like ass.

I'll take Slevin and Clerks 2 but Grindhouse was the worst movie ever made byfar hands down no contest. Not only was it bad and boring but it was so long and it felt like it lasted for 2 days.

P.S. I hated that movie.

147 BLU RAY DISCS AN COUNTING THANKS TO MY LATEST PURCHASES OF MUSIC & LYRICS, PRIMEVAL, AND GHOST RIDER.

....But music and lyrics, primeval and ghost rider were good? ;) lol!!!

Definitely not good news for HD DVD - any way you look at it.

With that being said, anyone have one of the 250 pilots in their area? I do. You know how many HD titles (HD DVD or Blu-ray the one in my area rented? The blue shirt guy I chatted with told me it was < 100 HD titles they've rented since day one of stocking them. When I asked when we can expect other stores to start stocking HD media, he said it was just the pilots for now, but because demand was so low, he said Blockbuster was telling them they weren't sure if they'd continue to stock HD at all. Granted, this is just what the guy was relaying to me, don't have any idea what the actual or total figures are like.

In any event, even if Blockbuster's HD rentals are a miniscule amount, if you only see Blu-ray there, you're going to be more inclined to ask about it or naturally be directed to buying Blu-ray. Definitely not good for HD DVD.

Not that it matters to me, but will Blockbuster continue to rent HD DVD online?

Bad news, what's next for Toshiba? They need to do something really quick now rather than later. Toshiba is too slow while Sony going around making deal after deal with others. Toshiba can't win this alone.

I just hope whichever side wins has some cheap players. so that it doesn't stay a niche format. But if you want my opinion. hd dvd and blu ray will be a niche format. I am gonna bookmark this just in case I am right :D if not then ill delete the bookmark lol

Bad news, what's next for Toshiba? They need to do something really quick now rather than later. Toshiba is too slow while Sony going around making deal after deal with others. Toshiba can't win this alone.
If you mean deal by deals in the sense of support then that alone wont win them the war. You cannot force someone to buy something they cant afford. and $200++ player is something most cant afford or just dont wish to spend so much on.

Flip side is toshiba is hoping that with no support and cheap players their gonna win. but IMO that wont win it, without support. both support and cheap prices are needed.

Want to argue about how prices don't matter and specs do and support don't matter well what sells more the wii or the ps3? ya I am comparing game consoles to disc players but in general people want as much as possible with as little money as possible. Their is people though that dont care just look at all those who buy bose for $4000 :D

Originally Posted by nbay
I know it's not going to happen but it would be funny if Universal said to BB that they won't get any more Universal titles until they stock HD DVD.

A few years ago I believe Universal tried to re-negotiate their rental revenue term with Blockbuster to favor Universal. Blockbuster sat on the side lines and didn't order titles for a few weeks...

Universal blinked, and lost...

Universal needs Blockbuster more than Blockbuster needs Universal.

fitprod

I think you are reading into this way too much.
Fact: Both HD DVD and Blu-Ray are niche formats
Fact: According to Nielsen Videoscan Blu-Ray has outsold HD DVD in 2007 by a wide margin. HD media sales as reported by Nielsen in 2007 show Blu-Ray capturing almost 70% of the market (YTD).

According to the press release, Blockbuster stated that Blu-Ray rentals made up 70% of their HD rentals. This certainly jives with the sales data. Blockbuster made a business decision for their local stores to support the better selling of the two niche formats. It is that simple. They still offer HD DVD rentals online (for now). It is almost July and according to Nielsen, HD DVD has not won one week of sales this year. Look at the signs, they are all around you.. Yeah, and you know, - for this above truth - I don't even know if I can or will blame the HD DVD group's inability/unwillingness to put out a lot of content during the first half of this year. I mean, HD DVD blew its wad and seemingly rightfully so during the '06 Xmas period and before. And there's no reason that Batman Begins, King Kong, and etc shouldn't have sold to more people during the first half of this year months after their particular release anway. I mean they ARE good titles. HD DVD has had A LOT of great, even exclusive content.

It's just that BD made the better move by doing the PS3 Trojan Horse, spending their marketing dough better, and by predicting that retailers/whoever would base their decisions on what goes down in '07 instead of much of anything that went down during all of '06 and the "early launch period". That is or may be why BD has had a boatload of content released since late-late December to just recently.

I feel the same way (A2 owner and Blu-Ray player owner). I don't think this is the death of HD DVD at all, but it certainly hurts their image and many people that were waiting on the fence may jump to camp Blu now..
It is true that people are going to jump the fence to Blu

IMO not becuz of this BLockbuster thing (it does add to the equation)
but becuz ther is no popular exclusive content on HD
i mean Matrix vs Pirates
come on! who did you think would win?

Unless Heroes sells phenomonally well HDDVD has to pull something bigg out of their closet, Gladiator\star wars\LOTR\Full soprano's seasons\Indiana Jone\godfather\shrek..something please give us something to chew on
I mean their upcoming big titles are multiformat
what are they doing?

I have both players and I was soo hoping the fight would last longer than one year
just for the sake of the customers who went only HDDVD and stayed true to them

ack_bk , who knows, maybe I am being paranoid about this.

It's just that Viacomm I think owns BlockBuster (or did, anyway), and somone or some company that owns a controlling interest in them also owns a game company that Sony just did a deal with that involves a movie tie-in (Hardboiled). So my point being Sony's involvement in this BB announcement may be unofficial, but possibly not trivial. Someone with more than my pitiful knowledge of such matters want to chime in on specifics?

It's also a smart move to solidify their B&M position.

However, I don't think this is over just yet. Cost of entry still counts for a lot, especially if all you're going to do is rent.

For right now the target audience of BD players is obviously people who own HDTV's and PJ's. The majority of these people are spending $2k+ on their displays. A $500 BD player really shouldn't be out of reach for someone who spends 4x that on a TV and really wants to get the best performance out of it. By the holiday season of this year I think low-end BD players will be selling for around $300 retail. BD should become a relatively mainstream format pretty quickly as HD DVD fades off.

Definitely not good news for HD DVD - any way you look at it.

With that being said, anyone have one of the 250 pilots in their area? I do. You know how many HD titles (HD DVD or Blu-ray the one in my area rented? The blue shirt guy I chatted with told me it was < 100 HD titles they've rented since day one of stocking them. When I asked when we can expect other stores to start stocking HD media, he said it was just the pilots for now, but because demand was so low, he said Blockbuster was telling them they weren't sure if they'd continue to stock HD at all. Granted, this is just what the guy was relaying to me, don't have any idea what the actual or total figures are like.As I mentioned somewhere, one positive piece of news for those who care about HD on discs more than they care about a specific format is that Blockbuster is moving forward for one of the formats. I think there are different groups around here that can be broken down along lines like those who have a favorite format and if it doesn't succeed they want the other one to fail also, those who have a favorite format but care more about one winning than it being their chosen format, etc.

I've seen more than one person here post that if somebody wants the quickest end to the format war they should support HD DVD. I believe I have pointed out more than once that this was likely true if HD DVD was going to be the eventual winner, but if Blu-ray was going to be the eventual winner than that strategy could prolong the time before the end of the format war. And same thing for supporting just Blu-ray.

People around here who care greatly about the future of HD on discs have some choices to make. They can band together with some other people and push even harder for HD DVD to try to come back from this setback and other data that seems to be working against them (latest disc sales in NA, Europe, Australia, Japan, etc.), they can band together to try to push Blu-ray to a big enough lead to end the war, they can just go on getting movies they care about regardless of the format, etc. I understand people getting behind HD DVD or Blu-ray based on their philosophical beliefs about the companies or because they believe one is better. But we shouldn't fool ourselves into believing that supporting format x doesn't have a chance of just extending the war, if format x was going to lose anyway.

--Darin

Yeah, and you know, - for this above truth - I don't even know if I can or will blame the HD DVD group's inability/unwillingness to put out a lot of content during the first half of this year. I mean, HD DVD blew its wad and seemingly rightfully so during the '06 Xmas period and before. And there's no reason that Batman Begins, King Kong, and etc shouldn't have sold to more people during the first half of this year months after their particular release anway. I mean they ARE good titles. HD DVD has had A LOT of great, even exclusive content.


i think that was their biggest blunder. releasing all of their content when installed base was microscopic, they should have targeted xmas '07 not '06. sony still has not announced Spiderman...

Bad news, what's next for Toshiba? They need to do something really quick now rather than later. Toshiba is too slow while Sony going around making deal after deal with others. Toshiba can't win this alone.

Toshiba might have to go at it alone. The only arsenals at its disposal:

-pull a "BDA at CES 2007" stunt and have its exclusive studios (Universal, Weinstein, etc.) announce a ton of movies coming down late in 2007 and early 2008 to inspire confidence in potential HD-DVD buyers that they'll have good movies to watch (although they won't be able to rent them at BB);

-lower the MSRP of the HD-A2, HD-A20 and HD-XA2 immediately by $100, essentially making the $100 promotional discount a permanent one.

-lower the MSRP of the HD-A2 to $249 by September so that, by October, stores can start selling it by $199. Even if HD-DVD's can't be rented, for less than $200 HD-A2 units are going to sell and create a user-base even BB won't be able to ignore;

-Toshiba should suspend its royalty payments for HD-DVD from supporting studios momentarily (a few months) so that they can apply a small discount ($5 average) to new and catalog titles. If HD-DVD software is priced lower then it will become impulse purchase fodder.

No matter what I say there's no way to NOT admit that these are all temporary solutions to a bigger problem: PERCEIVED smaller user-base by inclusion of BD on the PS3. For HD-DVD to become mainstream it needs to be as rentable as DVD, and for that to happen HD-DVD needs Blockbuster (70% of the rental market isn't something to sneeze at) as much as BD. BD already has it, so only be achieving player penetration high-enough to match BD's (when the PS3's are included) will BB change its mind and also rent HD-DVD. Either that or Tosh will have to get into the bribe game Sony and the studios used to get BB on board as BD backers. And we know that at this game Sony is king! :(

here's the official PR Release (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/06-18-2007/0004609679&EDATE=MON+Jun+18+2007,+01:15+AM) from Blockbuster.

Blockbuster to Expand Blu-Ray to 1,700 Stores

Company will continue to offer HD DVD titles online and in select number of
stores

DALLAS, June 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- In response to the growing
demand for high-definition DVDs, Blockbuster Inc. (NYSE: BBI, BBI.B) today
announced that it is rolling out an expanded Blu-ray disc inventory for
rental to 1,700 corporate-owned BLOCKBUSTER(R) stores by mid-July. The
Company will continue to offer both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles through its
online rental service, http://www.blockbuster.com, and will continue to offer both
formats at its initial 250 stores that currently carry both high-definition
formats.

"We intend to meet the demands of our customers and based on the trends
we're seeing, we're expanding our Blu-ray inventory to ensure our stores
reflect the right level of products," said Matthew Smith, SVP Merchandising
for Blockbuster. "While it is still too early to say which high-definition
format will become the industry standard, we will continue to closely
monitor customer rental patterns both at our stores and online, so we can
adjust our inventory mix accordingly and ensure that Blockbuster is
offering customers the most convenient access to the movies they want, in
the format they want."

When Blu-ray and HD DVD were introduced to the marketplace in 2006,
Blockbuster began offering the high-definition formats on all titles in
which it was available through blockbuster.com. The Company also introduced
both formats on select titles in 250 stores in November of 2006. With
Blu-ray rentals significantly outpacing HD DVD rentals at its BLOCKBUSTER
stores, the Company made the decision to expand the number of stores
offering the Blu-ray format.

With the expansion in July, the 1,700 stores will be carrying more than
170 titles in Blu-ray and will continue to add titles in the format as they
are released from the studios.

"We are excited to be able to make more high-definition titles
available to our customers in those stores where our research indicates
there will be the most demand," said Smith. "Obviously, when customers are
ready we can expand the Blu-ray offering into more stores and add HD DVD to
more locations if that's what customers tell us they want. We'll continue
to work with the movie studios to ensure we have the right assortment of
products."

Blu-ray formatted titles are available from Sony Pictures Home
Entertainment, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Home Entertainment, FOX Home
Entertainment, Buena Vista Home Entertainment, Lionsgate Home
Entertainment, Warner Home Video, and Paramount Home Entertainment and can
be played on Blu-ray dedicated players, Sony PLAYSTATION(R)3 (PS3(TM)) or a
Blu-ray compatible computer drive.

About Blockbuster
Blockbuster Inc. is a leading global provider of in-home movie and game
entertainment, with more than 8,000 stores throughout the Americas, Europe,
Asia and Australia. The Company may be accessed worldwide at
http://www.blockbuster.com.


SOURCE Blockbuster Inc.

I know it's not going to happen but it would be funny if Universal said to BB that they won't get any more Universal titles until they stock HD DVD. It would help if Universal had some bigger day-and-date titles to push their position. As it is Knocked Up looks like it will be their first title since King Kong to bring in over $120 million at the US box office. They spent a lot of money on Evan Almighty and maybe it will be huge, but from the previews I'm somewhat skeptical. Bourne Supremacy should do pretty well, but isn't likely to come out on disc until late in the year and there is some good stuff likely to day-and-date from the other side.

For HD DVD fans looking for some good news, I think they'll probably win their first week this year by Nielsen numbers the week ending July 1st (we should get the data July 6th), given the overwhelming number of releases on HD DVD that week compared to 2 non-exclusives for Blu-ray that week and the recent HD DVD player sales.

--Darin

Just wanted to highlight one thing:
here's the official PR Release (http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=ind_focus.story&STORY=/www/story/06-18-2007/0004609679&EDATE=MON+Jun+18+2007,+01:15+AM) from Blockbuster.
"Obviously, when customers are ready we can expand the Blu-ray offering into more stores and add HD DVD to more locations if that's what customers tell us they want. We'll continue to work with the movie studios to ensure we have the right assortment of products."They've left themselves a reasonable opening if things change.

--Darin

With that being said, anyone have one of the 250 pilots in their area? I do. Yeah, I do - my BB was one of the first to be a pilot (check one of my old posts for a thread I made with a bunch of pictures of the store/sections/and info/etc).

...and NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT - this whole situation MAY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN A SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.

Because from the very start, as far as I can judge, the selection for and promotion of BD discs in the Blockbuster store was somewhat very clearly slanted toward BD over HD DVD - whether Blockbuster intentionally meant to have a bias or not.

First of all, for weeks the HD DVD section was only half the size of the BD section. Then things slowly evened out. But beyond that, what I mean is - both sections in the store (even when they would have the same amount of movies) - the BD side would seem to have all the "most-wanted" titles for the format while the opposite was true for HD DVD. I don't know if Blockbuster headquarters was choosing at random or what but it always ticked me off.

I mean on the BD side you would have Terminator 1, 2, Saw, and X-men: The Last Stand but on HD DVD you would not see it's early "most-wanted" titles like Batman Begins, Goodfellas, the Fast and the Furious Trilogy, or what have you. Rather you'd see more stuff like Full Metal Jacket, The Perfect Storm, and EVEN wierd s*** like HD DVDS first music titles. LIKE THE U2 title! Seriously that was taking up an HD DVD slot at the BB store, while Total Recall had that slot for BD or whatever.

I always remember thinking that if you were a non-enthusiast just casually looking at the situation - that even right there - you would just naturally assume that BD is the better, more supported by Blockbuster/retailers/studios format - even if it were completely not true.

So in conclusion: I have a feeling that the fairness to which Blockbuster applied their test to the 250 stores was never really that equal and that they may have created the test results partially by their own doing of displaying a conscious or unconscious bias for BD all along in-store.

i think that was their biggest blunder. releasing all of their content when installed base was microscopic, they should have targeted xmas '07 not '06.They had to make it to xmas '07 first and if they hadn't released so much so far they would probably be in an even worse position now. Universal has released 9 out of 10 of their top 5 box office draws in the US for 2005 and 2006 (they have Inside Man left) and that is one way they kept the sales ratio since inception down to where it is instead of being even better for Blu-ray.

--Darin

You guys also have to remember that blu-rays scratch proof coating probably had a LOT to do with this decision as well. I dont think you want me to pull up every single post in the hd-dvd forum about scratched rented discs not playing. There isnt enough time in the world to go through them all. Blu-Ray has much better success with renting, and that probably helped quite a bit.

Originally Poster by DSET
Unless Heroes sells phenomonally well HDDVD has to pull something bigg out of their closet, Gladiator\star wars\LOTR\Full soprano's seasons\Indiana Jone\godfather\shrek..something please give us something to chew on
I mean their upcoming big titles are multiformat
what are they doing?

Maybe I mis-interpreted your post, but you do realize all of the titles you mention are either Blu-ray only or Dual Format?

fitprod

Thanks

Sorry dad1153, I'm new at this. Looks like I missed quote your last post.

A few years ago I believe Universal tried to re-negotiate their rental revenue term with Blockbuster to favor Universal. Blockbuster sat on the side lines and didn't order titles for a few weeks...

Universal blinked, and lost...

Universal needs Blockbuster more than Blockbuster needs Universal.

fitprod S***! :eek:

LOL...

ack_bk , who knows, maybe I am being paranoid about this.

It's just that Viacomm I think owns BlockBuster (or did, anyway), and somone or some company that owns a controlling interest in them also owns a game company that Sony just did a deal with that involves a movie tie-in (Hardboiled). So my point being Sony's involvement in this BB announcement may be unofficial, but possibly not trivial. Someone with more than my pitiful knowledge of such matters want to chime in on specifics?

It's also a smart move to solidify their B&M position.

However, I don't think this is over just yet. Cost of entry still counts for a lot, especially if all you're going to do is rent.

Whether Blockbuster and the BDA (a.ka., Sony) made a deal or not, the fact is that very soon a large number of Blockbuster stores will have at least a section of BD movies which is going to get a lot of people asking questions about BD.

Whether that is a an ace in the hole for BD to sew this up by Xmas of this year is anyone's guess. About the only hope Toshiba has now is convincing Warner to counter with some big, BIG releases in the next month or two coupled with even lower hardware prices?

Toshiba needs to grow the user base by 500K units between now and Q4 just to hang on, it's hard to say if that's even possible now.

I'm interested in what Kosty's take is on this. Will Walmart and other big box stores still move forward with a mult-Billion dollar investment in HD DVD if in fact consumer perception is that HD DVD is a "loser" format?

All in all, huge win for BD. The visability and essentially "free" advertising for BD at the "local video store" is priceless.

For HD DVD fans looking for some good news, I think they'll probably win their first week this year by Nielsen numbers the week ending July 1st (we should get the data July 6th), given the overwhelming number of releases on HD DVD that week compared to 2 non-exclusives for Blu-ray that week and the recent HD DVD player sales.

--Darin
That may of been the case, but this news is certainly going to curtail some HD-DVD spending... no?

You guys also have to remember that blu-rays scratch proof coating probably had a LOT to do with this decision as well. I dont think you want me to pull up every single post in the hd-dvd forum about scratched rented discs not playing. There isnt enough time in the world to go through them all. Blu-Ray has much better success with renting, and that probably helped quite a bit.


both have their negaitives. hd dvd is no weaker then dvd in the scratch area. but blu ray is thus the reason it needs the extra layer

but look what blu ray gets and hd dvd doesnt.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857067

That may of been the case, but this news is certainly going to curtail some HD-DVD spending... no?

Maybe but it got me to order five titles from Amazon. :)

Sorry dad1153, I'm new at this. Looks like I missed quote your last post.

No problem. Considering the hell we HD-DVD supporters going through this is small potatoes. :(

That may of been the case, but this news is certainly going to curtail some HD-DVD spending... no?
if so a very small number VERY...
now it will hurt renting though :)

but heh better for netflix they get hd dvd owners money now. Cause if you only support hd dvd, IMO you would be hurting them if you keep your membership with blockbuster, just switch to netflix...

That may of been the case, but this news is certainly going to curtail some HD-DVD spending... no?From some people. But maybe HD DVD fans here will band together and have more buy days. :) And maybe the news will get Toshiba to lower prices further or HD DVD studios to run deals that will increase sales. I don't expect Toshiba or Microsoft to go quietly into the night. Universal might (basically go neutral), but I think we can count on those 2 to put up a fight.

--Darin

Anyone else still wondering when the delayed titles from fox and disney are finnaly gonna get new release dates? forget all this mambo jumbo about blockbuster, what good is it without many new releases? how many times can you rent little men :)

Maybe I mis-interpreted your post, but you do realize all of the titles you mention are either Blu-ray only or Dual Format?

fitprod
really?
New line is LOTR right?
arent they Mutual
cant they sign an exclusive with Time Warner to get LOTR on HDDVD
or something along thoose lines?

and isnt dreamworks HDDVD only?
no? gladiator\Shrek etc??

no? :confused:

"anyone for Tennis?" :o

but heh better for netflix they get hd dvd owners money now. Cause if you only support hd dvd, IMO you would be hurting them if you keep your membership with blockbuster, just switch to netflix...The Blockbuster release said that they could change things later. Also, online should continue having HD DVDs available. If all the HD DVD fans leave then maybe the online will stop carrying new HD DVDs and Blockbuster will probably feel even better about their decision for those other stores. But I could see HD DVD fans banding together to try to make sure that Netflix goes their way or stays neutral.

--Darin

From some people. But maybe HD DVD fans here will band together and have more buy days. :) And maybe the news will get Toshiba to lower prices further or HD DVD studios to run deals that will increase sales. I don't expect Toshiba or Microsoft to go quietly into the night. Universal might (basically go neutral), but I think we can count on those 2 to put up a fight.

--Darin

Actually I don't think MS has a lot invested in HD DVD. I was rather miffed though to see some quote from the Blockbuster exec who made this decision indicating that MS might produce a BD drive for the 360, that rumor was shot down quite some time ago.

Actually I don't think MS has a lot invested in HD DVD. I was rather miffed though to see some quote from the Blockbuster exec who made this decision indicating that MS might produce a BD drive for the 360, that rumor was shot down quite some time ago.It is unfortunate that there is so much misinformation. On the other hand, maybe that will make it a self fulfilling prophecy. ;)

--Darin

^^^Yeah, a lot of that seems to be going around (see my post just prior to this one).

BTW, so if Blockbuster did this same thing with SD DVD and went small test group to big test group to nationwide over time...

How long will it be before BD goes from 1700 stores to nationwide? Will it take complete BD mainstream acceptance or do you think Blockbuster will be willing to go nationwide some time before that?

Great news for Netflix!

Not so great news once new subsrcibers start renting HD DVD, you will notice that your HD DVDs in your Queue will have much longer wait time.

No problem. Considering the hell we HD-DVD supporters going through this is small potatoes. :(

I wonder when is the next CES event?

http://www.blockbuster.com/corporate/newReleases (Blockbuster to Expand Blu-Ray to 1,700 Stores)

Company will continue to offer HD DVD titles online and in select number of stores


DALLAS, June 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- In response to the growing demand for high-definition DVDs, Blockbuster Inc. (NYSE: BBI)(NYSE: BBI.B) today announced that it is rolling out an expanded Blu-ray disc inventory for rental to 1,700 corporate-owned BLOCKBUSTER® stores by mid-July. The Company will continue to offer both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles through its online rental service, http://www.blockbuster.com/, and will continue to offer both formats at its initial 250 stores that currently carry both high-definition formats.

"We intend to meet the demands of our customers and based on the trends we're seeing, we're expanding our Blu-ray inventory to ensure our stores reflect the right level of products," said Matthew Smith, SVP Merchandising for Blockbuster. "While it is still too early to say which high-definition format will become the industry standard, we will continue to closely monitor customer rental patterns both at our stores and online, so we can adjust our inventory mix accordingly and ensure that Blockbuster is offering customers the most convenient access to the movies they want, in the format they want."

When Blu-ray and HD DVD were introduced to the marketplace in 2006, Blockbuster began offering the high-definition formats on all titles in which it was available through blockbuster.com. The Company also introduced both formats on select titles in 250 stores in November of 2006. With Blu-ray rentals significantly outpacing HD DVD rentals at its BLOCKBUSTER stores, the Company made the decision to expand the number of stores offering the Blu-ray format.

With the expansion in July, the 1,700 stores will be carrying more than 170 titles in Blu-ray and will continue to add titles in the format as they are released from the studios.

"We are excited to be able to make more high-definition titles available to our customers in those stores where our research indicates there will be the most demand," said Smith. "Obviously, when customers are ready we can expand the Blu-ray offering into more stores and add HD DVD to more locations if that's what customers tell us they want. We'll continue to work with the movie studios to ensure we have the right assortment of products."

Blu-ray formatted titles are available from Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Home Entertainment, FOX Home Entertainment, Buena Vista Home Entertainment, Lionsgate Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video, and Paramount Home Entertainment and can be played on Blu-ray dedicated players, Sony PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) or a Blu-ray compatible computer drive

Great news for Netflix!

Not so great news once new subsrcibers start renting HD DVD, you will notice that your HD DVDs in your Queue will have much longer wait time.
Maybe, Maybe they will stock more with more demand ;) Try to keep hd dvd owners happy and cut down on delay times. I dumped blockbuster after a month cause everything I had that was new releases on blu ray and hd dvd was on a waiting or shipping from far away. I have yet to not get at least one new releases every tuesday from netflix

I have to say that at some point, I just want to own a format that has a LONG life ahead of it...

If HD DVD called it quits tomorrow, I'd be fine with having spent 45 x ~$22
and
If Blu-ray called it quits tomorrow, I'd be fine with having spent 60 x ~$22

either way....

Yeah, I do - my BB was one of the first to be a pilot (check one of my old posts for a thread I made with a bunch of pictures of the store/sections/and info/etc).

...and NOW THAT YOU MENTION IT - this whole situation MAY HAVE ACTUALLY BEEN A SELF-FULFILLING PROPHECY.

Because from the very start, as far as I can judge, the selection for and promotion of BD discs in the Blockbuster store was somewhat very clearly slanted toward BD over HD DVD - whether Blockbuster intentionally meant to have a bias or not.

First of all, for weeks the HD DVD section was only half the size of the BD section. Then things slowly evened out. But beyond that, what I mean is - both sections in the store (even when they would have the same amount of movies) - the BD side would seem to have all the "most-wanted" titles for the format while the opposite was true for HD DVD. I don't know if Blockbuster headquarters was choosing at random or what but it always ticked me off.

I mean on the BD side you would have Terminator 1, 2, Saw, and X-men: The Last Stand but on HD DVD you would not see it's early "most-wanted" titles like Batman Begins, Goodfellas, the Fast and the Furious Trilogy, or what have you. Rather you'd see more stuff like Full Metal Jacket, The Perfect Storm, and EVEN wierd s*** like HD DVDS first music titles. LIKE THE U2 title! Seriously that was taking up an HD DVD slot at the BB store, while Total Recall had that slot for BD or whatever.

I always remember thinking that if you were a non-enthusiast just casually looking at the situation - that even right there - you would just naturally assume that BD is the better, more supported by Blockbuster/retailers/studios format - even if it were completely not true.

So in conclusion: I have a feeling that the fairness to which Blockbuster applied their test to the 250 stores was never really that equal and that they may have created the test results partially by their own doing of displaying a conscious or unconscious bias for BD all along in-store.SELF-FULFILLING?

That drought of HD DVD titles earlier in the year probably had something to do with the poor selection of HD DVD titles at your local Blockbuster and for their Blu-ray rentals trouncing their HD DVD rentals. So who's to blame for any perception of bias? I guess content really did matter after all.

I know Blockbuster has not stopped supporting HD DVD. But as mentioned earlier they have a deal with Weinstein that they get Weinstein's titles before anyone else. So I'm also wondering if Blockbuster will lean on them to release BDs. It think it's likely.

I wonder when is the next CES event? The CEDIA expo is coming up in just about 45 days or so, like on Sept 5th. There was a lot of great HD media announcements there last year (like Batman Begins on HD DVD, etc). Maybe, especially, in light of this recent Blockbuster news - we will now see and hear much more assertive/bold things from companies at that show. Hell, we may even hear enough there to get a picture of how the whole war will play out, even before knowing everything that will go down this Christmas holiday season.

I wonder when is the next CES event?January 7-10, 2008 in Vegas.

January 7-10, 2008 in Vegas.

OK, thanks.

The CEDIA expo is coming up in just about 45 days or so, like on Sept 5th. There was a lot of great HD media announcements there last year (like Batman Begins on HD DVD, etc). Maybe, especially, in light of this recent Blockbuster news - we will now see and hear much more assertive/bold things from companies at that show. Hell, we may even hear enough there to get a picture of how the whole war will play out, even before knowing everything that will go down this Christmas holiday season.

Thanks, I hope HD DVD group has something to combat this latest Blockbuster news.

Huge news for the Blu-ray camp.

Rentals will drive what players people buy.

For those that live outside of CA, this is yet another "name dropping" dude.

If I had a dime for everytime "names" were mentioned in the Hollywood area, I would be a rich man.
I protest sir !
I take B&W pics too among other things. :D
Plus, I was giving partial credit where credit was due. :)

And this is hardly the first time, his name has been "dropped" in relation to this subject on this forum.

I suggest you read the second paragraph and a lower paragraph toward the bottom highlighted with a word in red.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10166973&highlight=addressed#post10166973

Oh, one thing that you will not find in the piece is that when Rich Peterson visited SPE in CALIFORNIA........... is that his wife accompanied him, who in fact was a delight to meet.
I won't "drop" her name.

All of the HD-DVD owners are talking about going over to netflix which i would to if I had an hd-dvd player... but jus think about it, the high def revolution has jus begun most people when they get a hd player will now almost be forced to choose a blu-ray player... net flix wont be making that much money because hd-dvd will only and alwayz have 1 big studio "universal" which wont be enough and the only ppl that it will be pleasing is the early adopters of hd-dvd... i dont see net flix supporting it anymore after a few years at best and im sure most netflix owners that own a ps3 or blu-ray player will want block buster to win to end this format war so they will turn to blockbuster hurting netflix even more.... i see netflix making it exclusive to blu-ray sometime in the near future

Great news for Netflix!

Not so great news once new subsrcibers start renting HD DVD, you will notice that your HD DVDs in your Queue will have much longer wait time.

Netflix is next in line. Believe me!

http://img413.imageshack.us/img413/5673/neilsonhdmarketsharejunes5.jpg

bee2427, don't know if all that will happen. But, I'm feeling blue'er everyday :D Seems to be something going around :D

I for one am glad to see this. Many of you keep saying you want choice, but choice will just cause HD movies to remain a niche product. Regardless of what side you may be on, we all agree that a single format is best. Hate or love Sony /Toshiba, do we all want this to turn out like DVD Audio/SACD did? If HD-DVd has to die for Blu-Ray to move on as the standard, then a quick death to HD-DVD then. I just want all the movies in one format, and for player prices to drop. still not quite understanding the Sony hate, they are not alone in the BDA, or am I wrong. Sorry to get off topic, its great that I will be able to go locally and rent Blu-ray movies. I use their online service, and taking them back to the store is a great feature that Netflix cannot match. and so far, Amiable-Akuma has had the best post I 've read on this thread so far. Plain and simple, one of these formats must die, or they'll both die. I won't cry for either or, as they are all backed by multinational companies that really only care about my money, and not me. And there are some of us that will continue to watch movies, even when the PS3 finally gets the heavy hitters. To think otherwise is just dumb. Why not get the movies, I 've already got the player.

I've been waiting to dive into the HiDef waters at a later time but i've been fascinated by the capabilities of both formats. Both have their pros and cons and I won't be bold enough to predict a winner, however there is no positive spin for HD-DVD in this announcement.

For me I would have liked to see all studios/retailers supporting both formats and let the consumer decide, however sadly the decision doesn't seem to be in the hands of the consumer but decided for them. I do think that ultimately other retailers may side with one format and i'm curious if this announcement might cause a snowball effect? It will definitely be interesting to see the HD-DVD's marketing response.

One thing for sure, the dual format players (namely the upcoming Samsung model) definitely raise my interest!

hallen1007, I couldn't agree with you more. I just want one format, so it can take off. But do we really need to insult people for their opinions?

I think there are different dimensions to the "choice" question.

1. FORMAT: These two formats are so similar that there is hardly any real choice involved. They have the same codecs and produce very similar (often identical) results. Their history is actually a trail of incorporating features into both formats as feature were proposed throughout their development cycle.

2. CONTENT: The choice I would like to have is in terms of content. There were about 8000 LD titles, there are presently tens of thousands of DVD titles, but only about 300 titles on each of the nextgen formats. We are not going to see deep catalog as long as there is a format war.

Give me one format and the choice of thousands of titles!

Netflix has been taking market share from BB for years now. BB countered by having the same mail program but offer the option to return or exchange in-store.

They pilot HD & blu-ray on some stores to see if there is demand. Blu-ray dominated by 3 to 1. Now they decide to mass scale implement on over 1400 stores. That is alot of space to carry HD movies on 2 formats. Not to mention carrying format neutral studio titles. That takes up twice the space needed for the same titles and twice the royalties.

I guess the HD-DVD rental turnover did not meet the expectations from blockbuster to mass implement the costly change. They're in business to make money and survive Netflix's onslaught on their business model. A public company have many stockholders and investors to answer to. They must increase profit and find ways to generate growth. I do not see how catering to a losing format in their own tests can help to cut cost and increase revenue. HD owners may not like BB's decision, but their pockets did not help to change the pilot program's outcome.

my 2cents

absolutely great news for Blu-ray! and Netflix is next!

the Blu juggernaut continues...

Couple other thoughts:

1) Does this also mean that, in their large "for sale" sections, Blockbuster stores will ONLY sell new and used BD movies, as well? The 250 trial stores also sold HD DVD/BD movies brand new with clear displays near the front of the store, on easy-to-notice racks to the side of the gaming sections, etc. They weren't selling "used" yet because, of course, there was no over-stock - however if there are a 100+ BD titles going to each of the 1450 BD-only stores - it may eventually create a "used" sales section for certain BD movies, which in turn will attract people due to the lowered media pricing. And these two things may have a significant impact on increasing BD movie sales and BD movie interest in general.

2) How much effort, titles, and promotion will Blockbuster invest in these 1450 stores to go along with this move? THIS will be interesting to see when it happens. Because it could make this news even bigger or it could make it clearly much more insignificant. For example, if Blockbuster only has one small 6 by 6 section of their entire store dedicated to BD media - then you will be shocked at just how quickly people will be content to completely ignore it like it doesn't even exist. HOWEVER, if each of these Blockbuster stores has over 100 titles, with all the new releases streaming in regular, and a ton of in-store promotion, etc - then awareness and interest in BD will go through the roof.

--Food for thought, eh?

While I have no proof, I do know that cutting the unit cost from $499 to $299 and even lower can't be good for their margins.

Maybe they're not losing money, but unless they were gouging everyone for 100% mark-up before the price cuts (can't see this given the situation), they have massively cut into their profit margins to offer these rebates.

What does this have to do with the format war? Nothing - but Toshiba is around 1/2 the size of Sony and if they're not seeing a lot of profit from HD-DVD player sales they have less resources to work with as far as marketing HD-DVD.
so if you can speculate so can I trust what others are saying about sony losing about $200 per console and their even thinking of cutting hte price by another $200 from what rumors ive read. jesus thats $400 lost i can buy me 2 hd dvd players with that money lol

Couple other thoughts:

1) Does this also mean that, in their large "for sale" sections, Blockbuster stores will ONLY sell new and used BD movies, as well? The 250 trial stores also sold HD DVD/BD movies brand new with clear displays near the front of the store, on easy-to-notice racks to the side of the gaming sections, etc. They weren't selling "used" yet because, of course, there was no over-stock - however if there are a 100+ BD titles going to each of the 1450 BD-only stores - it may eventually create a "used" sales section for certain BD movies, which in turn will attract people due to the lowered media pricing. And these two things may have a significant impact on increasing BD movie sales and BD movie interest in general.

2) How much effort, titles, and promotion will Blockbuster invest in these 1450 stores to go along with this move? THIS will be interesting to see when it happens. Because it could make this news even bigger or it could make it clearly much more insignificant. For example, if Blockbuster only has one small 6 by 6 section of their entire store dedicated to BD media - then you will be shocked at just how quickly people will be content to completely ignore it like it doesn't even exist. HOWEVER, if each of these Blockbuster stores has over 100 titles, with all the new releases streaming in regular, and a ton of in-store promotion, etc - then awareness and interest in BD will go through the roof.

--Food for thought, eh?

wow someone who is actually speaking with a mind for once :)
I really think you hit it on the nail. Toshiba needs to come up with something quick or this can be a death blow or it can be a mosquito bite, only time will tell.

wow someone who is actually speaking with a mind for once :)
I really think you hit it on the nail. Toshiba needs to come up with something quick or this can be a death blow or it can be a mosquito bite, only time will tell.^^^ :) I'd just like to briefly say thanks to you and the others who have mentioned my name/posts in previous replies. This news is so wild, it is sparking a lot of terrific debate. I've read so many great posts since the story break, I want to compliment many of you - but I'll just have to say thanks and be sure to keep it up!

This war sure is entertaining...that's for certain...

Orignally Posted by Amiable-Akuma
The CEDIA expo is coming up in just about 45 days or so, like on Sept 5th.

More importantly, the Home Media Expo (Formally the VSDA) will be held July 17 to July 19th. It's possible that some studios will make some major 4th Q announcements then.

fitprod

^^^Wow, I didn't even know/realize this. Thanks for the info, very cool. BTW, I want to say that I've enjoyed reading some other great posts from you as well lately.

Ironically, MS may make more money from Blu-ray than they do HD-DVD - they get royalties for VC-1 usage on both formats and given how many more Blu-ray discs get sold than HD-DVD. Yeah, and maybe if the war was over with Sony the winner - Sony would be so relieved that they would finally loosen their claws a little to allow VC-1 to become the de facto, best-loved codec standard. We could then see them, other studios using it on the BD format much more often to greater effect. Wishful thinking perhaps, but I'm starting to dream dammnit...

Ironically, MS may make more money from Blu-ray than they do HD-DVD - they get royalties for VC-1 usage on both formats and given how many more Blu-ray discs get sold than HD-DVD.

They only problem with that is Warner is the only studio using VC-1 consistently on Blu-Ray. Disney and Sony have been mainly using AVC.

"The HD DVD Promotional Group called Blockbuster's decision "shortsighted," and attributed Blu-ray's performance at Blockbuster to that format's stronger release slate in the first three months of 2007. "I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/High-Def_Disc_Rentals/Blockbuster/Blockbuster_to_Go_Blu-ray_Only_in_1400+_Stores/707

"The HD DVD Promotional Group called Blockbuster's decision "shortsighted," and attributed Blu-ray's performance at Blockbuster to that format's stronger release slate in the first three months of 2007. "I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/High-Def_Disc_Rentals/Blockbuster/Blockbuster_to_Go_Blu-ray_Only_in_1400+_Stores/707
70% is 70%...

really?
New line is LOTR right?
arent they Mutual
cant they sign an exclusive with Time Warner to get LOTR on HDDVD
or something along thoose lines?

and isnt dreamworks HDDVD only?
no? gladiator\Shrek etc??

no? :confused:

"anyone for Tennis?" :o

Only one major studio exclusively supports HD DVD. That studio is Universal.

Warner have been helping out by giving HD DVD The Matrix and Batman Begins - ahead of their eventual Blu-ray releases - but Warner is officially a dual format supporter.

darinp2 mentioned something interesting in another thread as well: the weight of this news itself (whether the event itself turns out to be effective or not) may just cause a huge "word-of-month" increase for the BD products over HD DVD.

Think about it: Even if you're an HD DVD enthusiast - would you still recommend to your parents and friends to buy a player with this news sinking in? I believe even the most pro-HD DVD person will now begin to feel guilty to promote the buying of players to others all willy-nilly.

What you'll probably do if someone asks is the opposite. You'll actually recommend BD and site this news as one of many reasons BD is a good choice to go with (besides capacity, studio support, PS3 inclusion, etc).

Think about how salespeople will use the news. This is an Associated Press article - every paper and news show will pick it up to officiallly chime its song. Best Buy sales people, etc who are already pushing BD players over HD due their higher profit margins will use this piece of info to convince potential buyers along with their other "nuggets" of wisdom (like BD is the only one that can "do true 1080p HD" and all the other crap they say to make a sale).

Only one major studio exclusively supports HD DVD. That studio is Universal.

Warner have been helping out by giving HD DVD The Matrix and Batman Begins - ahead of their eventual Blu-ray releases - but Warner is officially a dual format supporter.
do you have release dates for matrix,v for vendetta? charlie?batman begins? and a handful of other warner titles?

what about fox and disney future release dates?

what does that leave for blu ray?

"The HD DVD Promotional Group called Blockbuster's decision "shortsighted," and attributed Blu-ray's performance at Blockbuster to that format's stronger release slate in the first three months of 2007. "I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group."

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Industry_Trends/High-Def_Disc_Rentals/Blockbuster/Blockbuster_to_Go_Blu-ray_Only_in_1400+_Stores/707One other thing I have to say about this. The HD DVD Promotional Group and Ken Graffeo personally taking the time to immediately comment on this news story as it breaks - just goes to show you how serious and real this s*** is. Makes me think that any hopes that Blockbuster will change its mind or won't be very serious in going forward with their plans are likely to be 100% false.

I mean we can assume that the HD DVD promo group has more insider information then we do, that they likely had their own behind-doors discussion with Blockbuster before the decision was made (as evidenced by the quickness in the HD groups putting out a rebuttal) - and yet here's the situation, the s*** has hit the fan and the HD DVD camp is scrambling to dealing with a very serious threat.

Seriously - I've never seen the HD DVD group even directly respond in the press to anything that happens for the BD camp AT ALL - much less immediately make a comment in such a defeated way the second the story breaks.

I mean, it sounds like damage control from an injured animal. Prior to now, HD DVD was lean and mean issuing their own press releases independently as if they owned the world. Now what?

Just curious: is there any particular reason why this thread was made sticky? I understand that this news has some value for US users who rent optical discs, but on the other hand I don't see why a marketing newsflash should be as important as e.g. the insiders and sales numbers threads.

Does videoscan include sales to Blockbuster for rentals in their numbers? There's some speculation that HD DVD might take at least one week in June or July due to the HD DVD player sale, the number of new Universal releases and a lack of new Blu-ray releases. If videoscan does include Blockbuster purchases, Sony/Blockbuster could time the sales to offset any potential weekly loss.

Yeah, okay, here's something else: I had one of the first Blockbuster trial stores near me, I've been an HD DVD-only supporter since launch, and I went to that Blockbuster often to us a movie pass to rent SD DVDs.

Well, guess what?! I almost NEVER rented any HD DVDs from that store! Why you ask!? -Because I owned almost ever single title they had!

Blockbuster waited until several months after launch to put HD media for rent in these trial stores and then they only stocked the shelves with some of the earliest titles that had come out and nothing much really that had come out or was coming out recently.

Well, HD DVD owners have generally had a high attach rate and bought a ton of terrifically reviewed titles early on - like Training Day and Riddick and so on. HD DVD player owners were confident to just buy HD DVD movies because we had the proven VC-1 codec, etc while BD was screwing up and making people nervous with bad MPEG-2 on movies like The 5th Element and House of Flying Artifacts (whoops, I mean "Daggers").

So what did this do for renting HD media even if you take the Playstation 3 effect out of the equation?

Well, it meant that even unbiased dual-format owners would buy the HD DVD titles more often and not need to rent them ever - while they would be about 4 times more likely to rent the BD titles first to make sure that their PQ was up to par since BD had such a stigma around it for having "early launch", bad review/PQ jitters.

So the IRONY here is that: Sony and the studios SCREWING UP many of their earliest titles from a PQ stand-point could have in fact actually led to them winning the format war via pure stupidity and fumbling around alone!

(Things like lower price of an HD DVD player, etc also helped offset the need to rent instead of buy - since the money saved can go directly to actually buying and owning titles. So the other IRONY is that Toshiba may have contributed to losing the war for themselves by having great, consumer-friendly and aggressive pricing!)

...Blockbuster themselves may not be the ones firing the fatal shot here, but they may start a chain of events that leads to that shot in the end.

Yes, I had heard rumor of this from a buddy of mine recently and I was hesitant to believe it to be true. However, it was the straw that broke the camel's back in my support of HD DVD and I just decided to cut my losses before the news broke and sold off my HD DVD collection. When small Mom and Pop stores did the same thing with Beta back in the 1980s, it was definitely the beginning of a chain of events that ended the life of that home video format. I am kinda relieved we may be reaching a point soon where everyone can rally behind Blu-ray and stop all the bickering.

According to the press release, the decision of Blockbuster is only temporary. When the low cost Chinese HD DVD players will fill the store shelves this fall, Blockbuster will expand the number of stores offering the HD DVD format.


Blockbuster to Expand Blu-Ray to 1,700 Stores
Company will continue to offer HD DVD titles online and in select number of stores

DALLAS, June 18 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- In response to the growing demand for high-definition DVDs, Blockbuster Inc. (NYSE: BBI)(NYSE: BBI.B) today announced that it is rolling out an expanded Blu-ray disc inventory for rental to 1,700 corporate-owned BLOCKBUSTER® stores by mid-July. The Company will continue to offer both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles through its online rental service, http://www.blockbuster.com/, and will continue to offer both formats at its initial 250 stores that currently carry both high-definition formats.

"We intend to meet the demands of our customers and based on the trends we're seeing, we're expanding our Blu-ray inventory to ensure our stores reflect the right level of products," said Matthew Smith, SVP Merchandising for Blockbuster. "While it is still too early to say which high-definition format will become the industry standard, we will continue to closely monitor customer rental patterns both at our stores and online, so we can adjust our inventory mix accordingly and ensure that Blockbuster is offering customers the most convenient access to the movies they want, in the format they want."

When Blu-ray and HD DVD were introduced to the marketplace in 2006, Blockbuster began offering the high-definition formats on all titles in which it was available through blockbuster.com. The Company also introduced both formats on select titles in 250 stores in November of 2006. With Blu-ray rentals significantly outpacing HD DVD rentals at its BLOCKBUSTER stores, the Company made the decision to expand the number of stores offering the Blu-ray format.

With the expansion in July, the 1,700 stores will be carrying more than 170 titles in Blu-ray and will continue to add titles in the format as they are released from the studios.

"We are excited to be able to make more high-definition titles available to our customers in those stores where our research indicates there will be the most demand," said Smith. "Obviously, when customers are ready we can expand the Blu-ray offering into more stores and add HD DVD to more locations if that's what customers tell us they want. We'll continue to work with the movie studios to ensure we have the right assortment of products."

Blu-ray formatted titles are available from Sony Pictures Home Entertainment, Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer Home Entertainment, FOX Home Entertainment, Buena Vista Home Entertainment, Lionsgate Home Entertainment, Warner Home Video, and Paramount Home Entertainment and can be played on Blu-ray dedicated players, Sony PLAYSTATION®3 (PS3™) or a Blu-ray compatible computer drive.

About Blockbuster

Blockbuster Inc. is a leading global provider of in-home movie and game entertainment, with more than 8,000 stores throughout the Americas, Europe, Asia and Australia. The Company may be accessed worldwide at http://www.blockbuster.com/.


source: http://blockbuster.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=press_releases&item=727

A step closer to "ONE" HD optical format. The sooner the better. Either it be Blu-ray or HD-DVD. Just one ring to rule them all. :D

Have any of you seen the "Digital TV: A Cringely Crash Course " show that comes on PBS HD? They talk about how different railroad tracks held up the railroad business. Then when they went with one size, it took off. That's what HD Media Disc needs! PERIOD!

Looks like this show comes on at 4:00AM everyday in Houston!

I am kinda relieved we may be reaching a point soon where everyone can rally behind Blu-ray and stop all the bickering.


I wish we were at that stage, but I'm sure in a week Toshiba will anounce some discounts and everyone will go back to saying hddvd is the future.

I'm sick of it, and just wish people would STOP this and let Blu-ray be the only format.

Wouldn't this http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25310 have a slight impact on Blu-rays supposed win if Target, the company suing won?

http://www.blockbuster.com/corporate/newReleases

the press release is up

According to the press release, the decision of Blockbuster is only temporary. When the low cost Chinese HD DVD players will fill the store shelves this fall, Blockbuster will expand the number of stores offering the HD DVD format.How many Blockbuster stores are there in China?

How many Blockbuster stores are there in China?
Chinese players that have been confirmed to come this year by toshiba to the us..... heh i belive it as much as I believe the matrix will hit blu ray one day :)

Until BD players drop to affordable levels, this is all moot.

Until BD players drop to affordable levels, this is all moot.


Gee, a 50% reduction in a year. At this rate, it won't be long for people that can't afford hdtvs to buy a blu-ray player.

History will repeat itself.

What happened:

- PS3 sells 1.3 million units
- demand for Blu-Ray goes up
- Blockbuster expands the numbers of stores carring Blu-Ray

What will happen this Fall:

- low cost chinese HD DVD players (like Venturer SHD7000) will fill the store shelves
- HD players will go mass market at mass prices (HD DVD first to be under $150)
- demand for HD DVD will go up
- Blockbuster will expand the numbers of stores carring HD DVD

I really hope that doesn't happen. MS, Toshiba, and Universal need to take a deep breath and throw in the towel.

yes monty all for you!!!!!

yes monty all for you!!!!!

I'm neutral, but support BD obviously.

Question is, why is it better if Toshiba drags this stupid war out for years? Who does that help? Anyone?

I think the point is that it doesnt matter....it is what it is....and to expect someone to just roll over and die because of convienece for people that want blu ray to win...well thats just not even any kind of thinking at all.

History will repeat itself.



- low cost chinese HD DVD players (like Venturer SHD7000) will fill the store shelves
- HD players will go mass market at mass prices (HD DVD first to be under $150)
- demand for HD DVD will go up
- Blockbuster will expand the numbers of stores carring HD DVD

Pure fantasy.

All while Blu Ray is doing nothing yet a daily fixture at Blockbuster and Best Buy (the #1 places for electronics and movie rentals)......

Perhaps I can offer the point of view of a person who has no allegiance in the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD war. I have no product bias toward Sony or Toshiba. In fact, I have both a Sony TV and a Toshiba TV in my house, and I'm very happy with both. I don't really care who wins this war. That being said, last week, I took advantage of Crutchfield.com's mistake and purchased a Toshiba HD-DVD player for $199. I decided to make the move because I felt that the "side" that got its player down in price quickest would "win" this war, and Toshiba seemed to be moving in that direction. But now, with Blockbuster's announcement, I'm probably going to cancel my order. The expected shipping date is June 26th, and I don't want to be stuck with a machine that's going to be a Betamax deck in two years. Now, I'm a Net Flix subscriber who never walks into Blockbuster, but the reason for my decision to not buy the Toshiba is simple: It's very clear to me that this "war" is not tilting to Toshiba's side, and even if it's tilting to Blu-Ray's side, it's probably best to wait and not make any move at all for a while. Clearly, judging the winds in this situation right now is impossible, although I must say that the Blu-Ray wind seems to very strong right now. And it also seems that of the possible Toshiba reactions to this, one is dropping prices even more, in which case my $199 won't seem like much of a bargain.

On a side note, and I'm sure this has been said before, I think Sony destroyed Toshiba in the naming game. Most people already think DVDs are HD. Calling something HD-DVD doesn't make it sounds like it's a new technology. But Blu-Ray does sound like something new. People just might go for that...if the prices come way down. I don't see the average person spending more than $100-$150 for a DVD player, HD or not.

I agree that BB's numbers are skewed because of all the teen gamers who frequent the stores and have a PS3 and thus rent BD in addition to it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy because of the number of BD titles carried vs HD-DVD titles.

I don't know....I'm in the demographic for this stuff. I still won't spend $499 to watch BD, and honestly wouldn't have spent even $299 to watch HD DVD because I care far more about the audio side than the video side. I finally went to buy one when it was $249 at Costco.

Price is still key. Toshiba will drop the price to $199 within a short period of time to counter this if they are smart. $300 is a big jump.

People will walk into BB, see a Blu movie and go looking for a player. Unless they drop the price along with rentals then I don't know how much good it will do them.

I've personally had excellent luck with Netflix and HD-DVD. The part I am still most disappointed about is the jumbled mess the audio side is in.

Out of the 8 HD DVD's I've rented, 3 of them have been in TrueHD.

If Sony were the first to the sub 300 price point I'd have a BD player. PS3 is useless to me because of the lack of high quality audio out.

We'll see how it fleshes out in the next 3 weeks...thats how long I have to return my D2 to Costco :)

My wife and I also despise our local BB...and if BB is truly trying to push their online ordering and will still carry HD DVD then in the end it may not be that big of a deal because no matter what people are going to see that $499 price tag.

i dont know why you guys bother with damage control anymore... first of all you cant watch most of the movies, and now you cant rent at most of the Blockbusters that carry HD.

Now chinese HD-DVD player will save the day? Why? What will you do with it - set it on the table and admire it? Hd-DVD already has significantly better price, which can easily be called mass market, yet BD still outsells it easily (even more than before). Thats why Blockbuster decided to carry BD only in expanded selection of stores.

Game was over minute first PS3 was bought, and firmware updates are just rubbing it in.

Evetually, both formats will be under $300. Getting there first matters little if Best Buy pushes Blu Ray (and continues to hide HD DVD in the corner) and when you go to Blockbuster HD DVD is no where to be found. Walmart?? Who cares.... Walmart is for stapl items not luxury goods. They'll have no impact on the war even players are $99.

Toshiba is the only manufactuer selling the players for the format. They are losing money on each player as they desperately slash prices. No other manufacturer can afford to make them at hose prices. That is why after 1 year on the market, there is still no sign of any other name brand manufacturer making them. Blu Ray has many manufacturers on board and selling players with far more margin. They are cutting prices a lot less drastically so everyone makes money along the way.

Also, they have paid Blockbuster and Best Buy fees to push Blu ray and keep HD DVD out in the cold.

It has been a shrewd plan but very intelligent, focused and, of course, successful.

Who wouldn't admire Sony for such a lopsided showdown?!
The Blockbuster story is just another piece in the puzzle and another nail in the coffin for HD DVD.

Wouldn't this http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25310 have a slight impact on Blu-rays supposed win if Target, the company suing won?

That lawsuit will impact BD, HD-DVD, and DVD. I don't see why it would hurt BD any more or less than HD.

Target claims that company founder Han Nee developed the reflective silver alloy material which is used as a component of most DVDs produced today.

I think the point is that it doesnt matter....it is what it is....and to expect someone to just roll over and die because of convienece for people that want blu ray to win...well thats just not even any kind of thinking at all.
Exactly. HD-DVD will stop if/when they've exhausted ALL THEIR cards I'll bet, why not at this point? Kinda tickles me to read all the BD fanboys taking an HD-DVD negative and running with it as if BR just made a proactive, positive move themselves, lol (ok, both sides are quilty of that). Did they launch a full featured/spec stand alone player yesterday for $300 and I just missed it? A new slew of great new exclusive movies hit the shelves? What exactly did SONY do to entice me to go buy into BR here other then point at HD-DVD not being at all Blockbusturds?

Anyone want to bet that Toshiba tomorrow,announces that they have permantely lowered the HD A2 MSRP to $299 tomorrow. I believe the sale ends tonite at midnight. Maybe up it from 5 free to 7 free.

IMO it just will not be enough to counter this development. Then it really does look like a fire sale.
Blu Ray at blockbuster is not going to get J6P to drop 500 bucks on a BD player.

Holy Cow! This change is to be effective in July!! They will be carrying over 170 Blu-ray titles in the stores to start with. Way to go Blockbuster!

http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/18/news/companies/blockbuster_bluray/?postversion=2007061807

As a regular Blockbuster renter, I usually rent New Releases. I am also interested in High Definition. Back in 2005 I looked at which studios were supported by which format. It was very heavily tilted towards Blu-ray as having more studios that could release titles Day and Date in high def, and the fact that Universal had a horrible 2006 lineup and not much great going into 2007 made my decision very, very easy. I budgeted the cash to get a PS3 at launch to view Blu-ray movies. Knowing that supporting both formats with my cash would only prolong a war, I decided to not buy into the HD DVD format at launch and see what happened in 2006 and 2007. Money drives business and if you don't support a product, it will fail. This is a tough choice because there are quality titles by Universal that I want to watch, but it just isn't good for a QUICK resolution to this war to support both formats.

For me, its all about Day and Date, New Releases and big titles. Catalog titles are just not widely appealing, especially for disc sales. I mean, high def is great, but I'm not going to go and repurchase most movies I already have on DVD, and most consumers also follow this trend. Blockbuster is following this trend and its the right thing to do for this format war. Yes, it sucks to have to pay a price premium for the hardware and a spec that isn't polished and complete, but seriously, its not a huge price premium at $300 vs. $500, and the 1.1 Spec will go into effect in a few months. That's not to say that Blu-ray is the final answer, but split studios means taking a stand for the group of studios that are going to put out more movies that you want to see. For me, that means Blu-ray, and consumers are supporting Blu-ray at about 65% of the market, month after month. I'm just happy I'll finally be able to rent the Blu-rays in store instead of just using the online thing.

What exactly did SONY do to entice me to go buy into BR here other then point at HD-DVD not being at all Blockbusturds?

Sony has gotten Blockbuster on their side so as to choke off more content from HD DVD players. They did so by purchasing movie studios AND paying other big studios off to withhold content from HD DVD. Now they own the majority of the rental market exclusively. HD DVD is in a tail spin.

The low player prices are the biggest red herring in this war. It is too bad that when folks spend hard earned money on the cheapest thing, they think it will automatically win. That is farther from the truth and ignores the facts. I feel sorry for those who in trying to save some money (and could only afford either a BD player OR a HD DVD player) chose HD DVD. That investment will soon go into the toilet as the few new releases they were getting will dry up). Then, they will have to buy Blu Ray in the near future to conitnue enjoying new HD content.

What will happen this Fall:

- low cost chinese HD DVD players (like Venturer SHD7000) will fill the store shelves
- HD players will go mass market at mass prices (HD DVD first to be under $150)
- demand for HD DVD will go up
- Blockbuster will expand the numbers of stores carring HD DVD

The mythical Chinese players that will solve all of HD-DVD woes ... When rumors about these players started, the magical price point that was supposed to trigger mass market adoption was $199. Well, HD-DVD players have been selling for $249 with 5 free movies, and the only changes we've seen so far are 1) a 40% cut in Toshiba's sales forecasts, and 2) Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray. So now the magical price point is $149? Red herring indeed.

I've posted the following in another thread, but since that thread was closed and the HD-DVD camp still can't face the facts, I'll post it here again.

Let's recapitulate the response of the HD-DVD fanboys to the news since the beginning of the year:

- Fact 1: Thanks to PS3, the installed base of Blu-Ray players is already in the millions

HD-DVD Fanboy Response: Doesn't matter because attach rates are much lower than for HD-DVD players.

- Fact 2: In recent weeks, Blu-Ray has outsold HD-DVD roughly 2:1

HD-DVD Fanboy Response: Doesn't matter; only attach rates matter.

- Fact 3: Despite offering a $100 discount and 5 free movies with its players, Toshiba has to lower its forecast for shipments of HD-DVD players from 1.8M to 1M

HD-DVD Fanboy Response: Doesn't matter; 1M is plenty, and stand-alone HD-DVD players sell faster than stand-alone Blu-Ray players (remember: PS3 doesn't matter--see 1 and 2). HD-DVD players are "flying off the shelves at my local [insert store name here]".

- Fact 4: Blockbuster favors Blu-Ray because 70% of HD rentals are Blu-Ray

HD-DVD Response: Doesn't matter; Blockbuster is not what it used to be and its stock price is going down.

Guys, get real. Stop countering facts with rumors, speculation, fantasy and denial. Show us some numbers.

I am sure Blockbuster won't miss Michael HD DVD's money at all...Change your name to MichaelBlu Ray and I am sure they'll welcome him:D!

It is about studios. Blu Ray has them
It's about mainstream electronics retailers favoring Blu Ray. Best Buy is in Sony's pocket
It's about renting, as the majority of the public prefers $5 to watch a movie rather than $25. Now another piece in the puzzle has been placed as Sony has woed Blockbuster to BD exclusivity.

It's like a chess match and the Blu pieces are coming into an offensive grouping around HD DVD.


100% correct on this one. Blockbuster is where j6p or "the common family" goes to rent movies. It is not as much fun to rent online as compared to walking around a video rental store. Believe me this is a huge deal once the Sony marketing team and Blockbuster start advertising Blu-Ray rentals in their stores and move to replace SD-DVD within the next three years. I'm figuring three years since by then we will have enough Blu-Ray titles to fill up a few rows at least depending on how the movies are stacked.

The big Kicker is since Blu-Ray movies are so good at being scratch resistant, after a Blu-Ray movie has been rented so many times and placed in the "bargain bin", I'd feel a lot safer buying one for $10 bucks used than I did with the "buy 2 get one free" specials they always have.

I see this as the biggest announcement yet in favor of one format. Of course it is cost prohibitive for rental stores to carry both formats so this is a good business move. I own both and think both formats work well, but believe the market can only thrive if only one of the two exist and the facts should point everyone in the direction of Blu-ray. Good move Blockbuster and I hope other retail and rental companies follow suit. Any Universal stockholder should want to know why Universal is dragging the lunacy of two formats out with their exclusive support of HD DVD which can't be rented in most Blockbuster outlets.

Chirs

If Sony were the first to the sub 300 price point I'd have a BD player. PS3 is useless to me because of the lack of high quality audio out.That sounds strange considering that PS3 has the fattest pipe for audio among these players. (HDMI 1.3)

The mythical Chinese players that will solve all of HD-DVD woes ... When rumors about these players started, the magical price point that was supposed to trigger mass market adoption was $199. Well, HD-DVD players have been selling for $249 with 5 free movies, and the only changes we've seen so far are 1) a 40% cut in Toshiba's sales forecasts, and 2) Blockbuster picks Blu-Ray. So now the magical price point is $149? Red herring indeed.

I've posted the following in another thread, but since that thread was closed and the HD-DVD camp still can't face the facts, I'll post it here again.

Let's recapitulate the response of the HD-DVD fanboys to the news since the beginning of the year:

- Fact 1: Thanks to PS3, the installed base of Blu-Ray players is already in the millions

HD-DVD Fanboy Response: Doesn't matter because attach rates are much lower than for HD-DVD players.

- Fact 2: In recent weeks, Blu-Ray has outsold HD-DVD roughly 2:1

HD-DVD Fanboy Response: Doesn't matter; only attach rates matter.

- Fact 3: Despite offering a $100 discount and 5 free movies with its players, Toshiba has to lowers its forecast for shipments of HD-DVD players from 1.8M to 1M

HD-DVD Fanboy Response: Doesn't matter; 1M is plenty, and stand-alone HD-DVD players sell faster than stand-alone Blu-Ray players (remember: PS3 doesn't matter--see 1 and 2).

- Fact 4: Blockbuster favors Blu-Ray because 70% of HD rentals are Blu-Ray

HD-DVD Response: Doesn't matter; Blockbuster is not what it used to be and its stock price is going down.

Guys, get real.

You will be getting excuses up until the very last day from HD-DVD insiders and from all the fanboys who have yet to go dual-format and buy a PS3 or a Blu-Ray standalone.

Us Blu Ray proponets have always known the HD DVD's game plan was fatally flawed. It is nice to see evidence, easier for HD DVD folks to understand, that Blu Ray's strategy, in avoiding cheap players, was the winning way all along. I look forward to dumping Netflix..

That investment will soon go into the toilet as the few new releases they were getting will dry up). Then, they will have to buy Blu Ray in the near future to conitnue enjoying new HD content.
Eh, couldn't disagree more - too many folks here concerned with bragging rights methinks - yes, all I need to do is wait on an affordable BR player and continue buying disc media to enjoy at home and I'll be just fine (kinda like people still enjoying DVD these days with no shame), but I promise you I'll still be watching the HD-DVD movies I have on my player many years from now right along side my someday BR player, and believe me, even if the exclusive HD-DVDs get re-released on BR someday, probably years from now, my copies will still look every bit as good as those (I think thats one that bothers some)...oh, and I got my player at a fraction of the cost of BR, another reason its hardly a flush...now had/if BR lost, well, THAT would be a greater wa$te...and like I said, there is still nothing that just showed up on shelves that has me wanting to run out today and plunk down money for BR, sorry.

I am format neutral but I will say that this round was one by Blu-Ray. I wonder what deal Sony made with B.B. to get this exclusive deal. It will be interesting to see how the HD group reacts. If I was a top exec of the HD group I go after Walmart immediately with some special deal to get them to go exclusive to conteract this winning round. The next few weeks could be very interesting. I am sure the HD group knew this was coming and it will be interesting to see if they have any response.

Just heard some TV commentary on Bloomberg, stating effectively that with sales of Blu-ray disks outstripping HD DVD by a significant margin, it might have an impact on Toshiba (the backer of HD DVD).

I applaud Blockbuster for taking a stand. If more retailers followed their lead, this war would be over in months.

Very sad news. I guess we will all have to have a SONY decal affixed to our foreheads...

Some corrections:

It is 1700 stores NOT 1450

BB owns over 76% of the rental market

The average adult male spends $1200 a year on CE and those with kids and teens spend as much as $500 higher than that

Netflix has stated that HDD is 1% of their business. Guess what the other 99% is?

The MSRP of the HD A2 as of 6/18/07 at 8:00 AM is once again $399. This is only $100 less than the new S300 which streets today.

6/20/07 is the 1 year anniversary of BD - think they will do nothing to celebrate?

Joe Public does go to BB to rent movies. And as pointed out, as he wanders the store - all he is going to see is BD titles - 170 of them. JP is a very simple thinker. If he knows that there are 2 formats, but BB is only carrying BD - as stated - this is a loud and clear message to JP.

And guess what - 1700 locations in the USA will now carry BD for sale as well. There may be a lot fewer choices than are for rental - but they will be there.

DVD is shifting from a buy it format to a rent it format. Sales are flat for the lat 2 years and up a little in 2004. Rentals are up 32% and climbing

So if you are in the rental business - guess what? Your market is growing 10 to 15% a year while if you are in the sales market - you sold as much as you did last year.

And the biggest rental company in the world just decided to add BD to 1700 of it's stores in the USA.

That sounds strange considering that PS3 has the fattest pipe for audio among these players. (HDMI 1.3)

But it all gets dumbed down to a low res 5.1 format.

It is about price. Its not a matter of affordability either. For the money that both formats were charging for their initial investment I expecting a solid product, neither of those delivered a SOLID product out of the gate.

Initial Blu tites look horrible and HD-DVD hasn't had a high adoption rate of their high quality audio format.

For $249 I took a risk, but not for $500.

I have invested over 1K to listen to DVD-Audio and SACD so its not about cost but it does goto show something. DVD-A and SACD failed due to cost/complexity. Blu will not take over huge market share until they get the price for a consumer piece down.

PS3 is not a quality player because of its lack of high quality audio support. Now if they fixed that then I'd think about buying one around $500 because of its dual purpose.

No one cares enough about audio to spend the money on it and I doubt many care enough about video quality to spend $500 on a BD player, but might at $249.

Toshiba's prices went back up. I like my HD-DVD player but without more high quality audio discs I would never pay over $249.

If BD had 100 percent high quality audio discs with lossless compression, say even 80 percent of new titles then I'd be more akin to spend the money, but not one something that doesn't fit what I'd expect at that price point.

I see the BB news on Yahoo as well, and the headline is pretty strong.

Some corrections:

It is 1700 stores NOT 1450

BB owns over 76% of the rental market

The average adult male spends $1200 a year on CE and those with kids and teens spend as much as $500 higher than that

Netflix has stated that HDD is 1% of their business. Guess what the other 99% is?

The MSRP of the HD A2 as of 6/18/07 at 8:00 AM is once again $399. This is only $100 less than the new S300 which streets today.

6/20/07 is the 1 year anniversary of BD - think they will do nothing to celebrate?

Joe Public does go to BB to rent movies. And as pointed out, as he wanders the store - all he is going to see is BD titles - 170 of them. JP is a very simple thinker. If he knows that there are 2 formats, but BB is only carrying BD - as stated - this is a loud and clear message to JP.

And guess what - 1700 locations in the USA will now carry BD for sale as well. There may be a lot fewer choices than are for rental - but they will be there.

DVD is shifting from a buy it format to a rent it format. Sales are flat for the lat 2 years and up a little in 2004. Rentals are up 32% and climbing

So if you are in the rental business - guess what? Your market is growing 10 to 15% a year while if you are in the sales market - you sold as much as you did last year.

And the biggest rental company in the world just decided to add BD to 1700 of it's stores in the USA.

This is a very well thought out post that is not biased towards Blu-Ray. It is simply stating facts as well as sound marketing decisions by the largest rental company in the US.

Just looked at tvpredictions.com and it's funny: from Are We Headed for Stalemate? (http://www.tvpredictions.com/smith061707.htm) to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Roll the Credits (http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluhddvd061807.htm) in 24 hours. (Yeah, I know it's actually by two different writers but it's funny nonetheless).

I wonder if I will be able to use my Panny rebate card on those BRD rentals. I think I still have 20 or so free rentals left until the end of the year. Now that would be nice.

Just looked at tvpredictions.com and it's funny: from Are We Headed for Stalemate? (http://www.tvpredictions.com/smith061707.htm) to Blu-ray vs. HD DVD: Roll the Credits (http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluhddvd061807.htm) in 24 hours. (Yeah, I know it's actually by two different writers but it's funny nonetheless).

I think it is a testament to how volatile and divided the war has become.

I am format neutral but I will say that this round was one by Blu-Ray. I wonder what deal Sony made with B.B. to get this exclusive deal. It will be interesting to see how the HD group reacts. If I was a top exec of the HD group I go after Walmart immediately with some special deal to get them to go exclusive to conteract this winning round. The next few weeks could be very interesting. I am sure the HD group knew this was coming and it will be interesting to see if they have any response.

This is a substantial victory by the BDA. No doubt about it. However, it is to be seen what impact Blockbuster makes by this decision and if it was a prudent one for them.

After all Blockbuster is struggling financially...losing money and if this helps them in the short run (as someone said, HD media makes up for 1% of the market) then why not go for it. It'll be interesting to see how many rows of BD disks we end up with in the 1,700 stores. I guess there will be 1,450 more B&M stores stocking some selection of BD disks v. HD DVD.

NetFlix is not next. Even BB is still renting HD DVDs online.

I don't think this has been officially confirmed, except in the "of course that would happen eventually" format.

On the other hand:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/18/incoming-chinese-oem-blu-ray-player/

Seems there will be Chinese made Blu-ray players sooner than later as well.

Would amuse me greatly to see a "cheap chinese blu-ray player" on the market first.

Look at the picture closely, it says "DVD" and not "Blu-ray".

http://www.gowellent.net/product%20image/vedio%20series/875.jpg

This is a substantial victory by the BDA. No doubt about it. However, it is to be seen what impact Blockbuster makes by this decision and if it was a prudent one for them.

After all Blockbuster is struggling financially...losing money and if this helps them in the short run (as someone said, HD media makes up for 1% of the market) then why not go for it. It'll be interesting to see how many rows of BD disks we end up with in the 1,700 stores. I guess there will be 1,450 more B&M stores stocking some selection of BD disks v. HD DVD.


Are you getting paid by Microsoft to conduct damage control for them? ;)

BlockBuster owns over 76% of the rental market, and they are not losing money this year as you put it. They are gaining back some ground they lost to Netflix and have a HUGE advantage towards them if they offer the same basic "rental model" as Netflix offers while offering the convenience of also being able to return the movies in-store and instantly pick out new movie's to take home..

The average family does go to BB to rent movies. Seeing only one format on the wall is going to make a huge impact on them when looking for which format to buy into.

Netflix only caters to the crowd that has already bought into HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Blockbuster will cater to those who haven't bought into any format yet and simply ask the question to the BB workers "What are those Blue discs?" as their curiosity peaks... This is a HUGE and I mean HUGE blow to HD-DVD and there is no type of spin Plazman you can put on it to change it from that reality... 1,700 stores buying 30-50 Blu-Ray titles of each new title for rental is quite a lot...

NetFlix is not next. Even BB is still renting HD DVDs online.

The title of this thread is misleading. BB for now is not expanding HD DVD to their 'other' 1,450 B&M stores. But their current 250 and online will have them. I am guessing they got a deal from the BDA - good for them!

The way I see it, the HD market is small enough that for a small payment losing less than half of 1% of your market (which would be HD DVD) isn't going to be a big deal. The BDA has spent a lot more money on product placement and such compared to Tosh. For instance, I won't be surprised if the BD end units at BB are costing more than the Tosh $100 off rebate....

Plus this week Best Buy has a $400+$200 off PS3 bundle when you buy a Sony TV that is $500 off MSRP in the first place...so BDA is finally pricing very aggressively and IMHO is the final push to end this format war quickly. I am guessing Disney and other studios are complaining to Sony about the slow adoption and so a lot of money is being thrown around now. Blockbuster was at the right place at the right time to make a little dough on the side :) Why not!!

Terrible news for HD DVD. I would start boycotting Blockbuster, but I literally have not been in one for over 5 years. As a Netflix member since 1999, they will continue to get my money and my HD DVD rentals.

*sigh*

Are you getting paid by Microsoft to conduct damage control for them? ;)

BlockBuster owns over 76% of the rental market, and they are not losing money this year as you put it. They are gaining back some ground they lost to Netflix and have a HUGE advantage towards them if they offer the same basic "rental model" as Netflix offers while offering the convenience of also being able to return the movies in-store and instantly pick out new movie's to take home..

The average family does go to BB to rent movies. Seeing only one format on the wall is going to make a huge impact on them when looking for which format to buy into.

Netflix only caters to the crowd that has already bought into HD-DVD or Blu-Ray. Blockbuster will cater to those who haven't bought intop any format yet and simply ask the question to the BB workers "What are those Blue discs?" as theire curiosity peaks... This is a HUGE and I mean HUGE blow to HD-DVD and there is no type of spin Plazman you can put on it to change it from that reality... 1,700 stores buying 30-50 Blu-Ray titles of each new title for rental is quite a lot...

I believe there are hundreds of Best Buy stores with ONLY BD players running on end units, and yet they end up selling more HD DVD players.....I can see Blockbuster for now trying to cater to the PS3 crowd. They will rent games and movies as well. However, Blockbuster did not create the DVD market, the market was created inspite of them. AFAIK!

No MSFT does not pay me for anything. I just like to point out the reality. Having 1,450 stores rent BD and not HD DVD is good for BD. Absolutely. But 250 Blockbuster stores will STILL have HD DVD and they will still have them online. What % of the business does the 250 stores that do have HD DVD do v the ones that do not! I have no idea. But the fact is that Blockbuster is expanding BD, but not dropping HD DVD.

Again, overall this is good for BD, bad for HD DVD and probably good in the short term for Blockbuster...but IMO bad in the long run for Blockbuster and the long term impact on the format war is TBD.

I'm pretty confident that I'm well aware of what is going on in the gaming space.

You may want to recheck your numbers and compare the PS3 sales performance to the 360 and PS2 launch performances. You'll find the PS3 is outperforming both of them, despite being amidst a pretty serious drought of AAA software.

365 days from now, the PS3 will have a larger installed base than the 360 - mark my words.

Yeah, you really don't know what's going on in the gaming world right now. As for your last statement, those are words you don't want to mark. You see, for that to happen, the PS3 has to actually outsell the Xbox 360 at some point. So far, it's been doubled up (see, some of us do pay attention to numbers that matter).

Good luck with that prediction though.


So all the above things considered, it looks like the mainstream will be very willing to make the upgrade to HD physical media if there is generally one clear and healthy format out there.

I mean, especially as time passes and new prices/hardware/content/HDTVs start making "old SD DVD" look like ass.

You mean like Laserdisc? I realise there is a lot of sword waving and pistols firing in the air in this thread now by the Blu-ray faithful, but I bought into another format that was sort of......just like this. Offered better video and sound quality, expensive players, expensive media. And I heard all the same things about price coming down and so on. Years later I have 2 large boxes of laserdiscs and a player I haven't hooked up in that long sitting in my basement storage. And it's only sitting there because I haven't called Goodwill to pick them up.

Terrible news for HD DVD. I would start boycotting Blockbuster, but I literally have not been in one for over 5 years.

LOL, neither have I! I gave up on them in 2003 when I realized Hollywood Video had all the new and old DVD releases I wanted while the local BB's were still half VHS and half catalogue DVD's from the 1990's (with a few new titles on shelves that were always out).

As a Netflix member since 1999, they will continue to get my money and my HD DVD rentals.

I think I might be joining you soon. I'm not an HD-DVD renter (more of a buyer of select few titles) but this bad news might just make me one to show my support for the little format that could... until now??!! :(

BlockBuster are not losing money this year as you put it. They are gaining back some ground they lost to Netflix and have a HUGE advantage towards them if they offer the same basic "rental model" as Netflix offers while offering the convenience of also being able to return the movies in-store and instantly pick out new movie's to take home..
...

Check this out...

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070614/38308_id.html?.v=1

Expected to lose money:

Annual EPS Est (Dec-07) : -0.43
Quarterly EPS Est (Jun-07) : -0.27
Mean Recommendation*: 2.8
PEG Ratio (5 yr expected): N/A


Compare to Netflix:

Annual EPS Est (Dec-07) : 0.76
Quarterly EPS Est (Jun-07) : 0.23
Mean Recommendation*: 2.9
PEG Ratio (5 yr expected): 1.09

As a HD DVD owner, I am not happy about this news. This type of stuff can make a difference in the war. I'm hoping this does not start a chain reaction with the other stores. I don't think it will, cause the price point of the BR is still way off. I think that will be the only thing to slow the BR machine down.

If Sony were the first to the sub 300 price point I'd have a BD player. PS3 is useless to me because of the lack of high quality audio out.





You sir, are mistaken. It decodes True-HD, and outputs it via HDMI as LPCM. It just outputs LPCM. I think you meant to say "The XBOX360 does not have high quality audio".

I haven't been in a Blockbuster in years and now see no reason to ever go back in again. I say this knowing full well in 2 years I will also have a Blu-ray player to go with my HD-A2. The Blockbuster stores near me are a waste of time. Good riddance to Blockbuster... Netflix has been better from day one and will continue to be.

You sir, are mistaken. It decodes True-HD, and outputs it via HDMI as LPCM. It just outputs LPCM. I think you meant to say "The XBOX360 does not have high quality audio".

I know the X-box does not, same reason I do not have one of those.

I was told the PS3 dumbs it down in bitrate, it is not the full 1500mbps TrueHD bitrate.

LPCM is fine so long as its the orignal bitrate and uncompressed which I believe I read in several places.

You mean like Laserdisc? I realise there is a lot of sword waving and pistols firing in the air in this thread now by the Blu-ray faithful, but I bought into another format that was sort of......just like this. Offered better video and sound quality, expensive players, expensive media. And I heard all the same things about price coming down and so on. Years later I have 2 large boxes of laserdiscs and a player I haven't hooked up in that long sitting in my basement storage. And it's only sitting there because I haven't called Goodwill to pick them up.
The key difference is that Laserdisc was trying to replace VHS, but with no recording capability. DVD came along and had two things going for it - TIVO and DVD -/+R, so consumers had options.

Today, HD-DVD & Blu-Ray players play DVD's, so in two or three years when you're in the market for a new DVD player and the high-def format is selling for $99 and it plays all your old DVD's, the transition becomes a no-brainer.

On the other hand:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/18/incoming-chinese-oem-blu-ray-player/

Seems there will be Chinese made Blu-ray players sooner than later as well.

Would amuse me greatly to see a "cheap chinese blu-ray player" on the market first.

Btw "TheSimplePanda" congrats 4 the DVD player :p

You mean like Laserdisc? I realise there is a lot of sword waving and pistols firing in the air in this thread now by the Blu-ray faithful, but I bought into another format that was sort of......just like this. Offered better video and sound quality, expensive players, expensive media. And I heard all the same things about price coming down and so on. Years later I have 2 large boxes of laserdiscs and a player I haven't hooked up in that long sitting in my basement storage. And it's only sitting there because I haven't called Goodwill to pick them up.


Well, to make that a valid comparison, did LD drop half in price during any of its years, much less this early?

WE here at AVS LOVE to deal in facts . . . . when we get some.

From day one, the CEA has tracked literally every single DVD player sold in the USA SID. (Info at The Digital Bits)

This is NOT the case for HDD. We only get percentages . . . wonder why?

As BB has kept up with NF and in 2006 NF did $1 billion and BB did $5.5 Billion - then $4.5 billion was done via walk ins. That is over 4 to 1 in favor of walk ins.

And again - at 1450 stores Joe Public will only see BD - 170 titles is what the official BB PR said. So right off the bat - with only 170 per store (1 of each title) that will be almost double the volume over all the HD DVD's bought SID.

And i am an HD DVD supporter. But I am also an HD supporter and I am definitely a realist.

And people seem to forget what happened 10 years ago when DVD was limping along - until BB announced it would start carrying DVD's in their stores - It exploded and players were nowheres near $200 at the time this happend.

Blockbuster was at the right place at the right time to make a little dough on the side Why not!!
Heh, really like to know what this little coup is costing Sony.
People try to devine how much Toshiba is losing by selling a less expensive player, but they never wonder what the back room deals cost Sony. Then of course Sony does have deeper pockets.
For me its just one more reason I don't need to use Blockbuster. I buy what I like and Netflix the rest.

Check this out...

http://biz.yahoo.com/seekingalpha/070614/38308_id.html?.v=1

Expected to lose money:

Annual EPS Est (Dec-07) : -0.43
Quarterly EPS Est (Jun-07) : -0.27
Mean Recommendation*: 2.8
PEG Ratio (5 yr expected): N/A


Compare to Netflix:

Annual EPS Est (Dec-07) : 0.76
Quarterly EPS Est (Jun-07) : 0.23
Mean Recommendation*: 2.9
PEG Ratio (5 yr expected): 1.09


Expecting to lose money and actually losing money are one thing. That is why I said they haven't lost any money this year yet as those are just predictions.. They may end up losing money at the end of this year, however the company as a whole will survive as they plan a new business model structure with an increase in online rentals while offering Blu-Ray only rentals in 1,700 stores that are close to more affluent customers and at the same time close down stores not making any money for them (perhaps in poor areas). In other words it is basic business re-organization. You are trying to paint the picture of a company in its last chance to stay alive from going bankrupt. Hvving over 70% of the market share they are far from that position. And this re-organization of the company is long over-due considering how well Netflix has done..

Heh, really like to know what this little coup is costing Sony.
People try to devine how much Toshiba is losing by selling a less expensive player, but they never wonder what the back room deals cost Sony. Then of course Sony does have deeper pockets.
For me its just one more reason I don't need to use Blockbuster. I buy what I like and Netflix the rest.

$.02 a rental - How's that? - strictly a guess - NO FACT.

As the avereage rental is far less than $7.50 then there are billions of rentals going on so $.02 x billions can add up.

$.02 a rental - How's that? - strictly a guess - NO FACT.

As the avereage rental is far less than $7.50 then there are billions of rentals going on so $.02 x billions can add up.


If this is the case, it is a win win situation for Sony and Blockbuster since both will help each other out and make the most out of their investment.

WOW alot of bitterness here. :D I cant wait to have good access to Blu Ray rentals locally. Awesome news for Blu Ray. :)

I was told the PS3 dumbs it down in bitrate, it is not the full 1500mbps TrueHD bitrate.

Well, you were told wrong.

Heh, really like to know what this little coup is costing Sony.

It's probably not costing them anything; the converse is that stocking HD DVD would have cost Blockbuster almost double the shelf-space, for a format they have found to be less than half as popular in their stores.

Better stop now before you start arguing over who has the biggest Star Wars collection.

Its TV...its not the solution to world peace.

I have had my Toshiba HD A2 for about 3 days. I got 3 free titles, will be getting 5 more from Toshiba. I purchased Planet Earth and The Matrix Trilogy. So far, w/the cost of the player & my 8 free movies and 2 purchases, I am out a total of about $450.00. I purch the player at Value Electronics through their deal at AVS 300 for 3 free titles, 4 yr warranty & HDMI cable). I bought the player w/the knowledge that I may have to purchase a Blu-Ray player sometime in the future, depending upon the outcome of this format war. I will be renting the rest of my HD-DVDs from Netflix. I never intended to replace my 150+ collection of DVDs w/either HD format. FWIW, I have not been in a BB store in at least 3 years. I have been renting from Netflix since I got my first DVD player in 1998. I may still buy a dual format player around Christmas - depends on the quality of the Samsung. Or I may just sit w/the Toshiba and wait. Though I have been waiting for a re-release of Blade Runner in the fall in a high-def format, and WB will release that in both formats. All in all, Sony/Toshiba and all of this crap have pissed me off to no end. Either way, my worst case scenario is that my Toshiba goes in the basement and is used as an upconverting player for my son & his friends to use.

In other words it is basic business re-organization. ..

Blockbuster comes up with a business re-org every 6 months or so :D

Here is their quarterly statements - last Q they lost money!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=BBI


You can also look at their cash flow statement and see that BBI is borrowing money to run their operations. Their annual revenue has also declined for the last 3 years. These are exactly opposite of Netflix!

So, IMO this is an example of poor management, making poor decisions and slowly running the company to the ground. JMHO.

Its TV...its not the solution to world peace.
People watching TV don't kill people. People NOT watching TV kill people.

Blockbuster comes up with a business re-org every 6 months or so :D

Here is their quarterly statements - last Q they lost money!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=BBI


You can also look at their cash flow statement and see that BBI is borrowing money to run their operations. Their annual revenue has also declined for the last 3 years. These are exactly opposite of Netflix!

So, IMO this is an example of poor management, making poor decisions and slowly running the company to the ground. JMHO.

Plaz your position has become more and more untenable over the past 9 months yet you stick with the notion that HD-DVD is going to win.

Soon enough everyone here is gonna have to face facts: Blu-ray is going to be the winning format.

I've been saying that consistently here since November 2006.

I am very suprised by this announcement, did anyone here see this coming? It never even crossed my mind.

I just hopes this means my local stores are going to carry BD movies, if they do I will probably go back having only Blockbuster instead of using both Blockbuster and Netflix.

Obviously this is good news for BD and bad news for HD DVD.

Kind of makes me wonder what else is going to happen this week.

Maybe I'm just an anal collector, but can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't rather buy the content? If you have the money to invest in one of these techs, you're obviously an avid movie-lover. So why wouldn't you want to build your own collection?

I honestly don't get the renting thing, I like to own my toys LOL.

Soon enough everyone here is gonna have to face facts: Blu-ray is going to be the winning format.
You may well end up being right, but to make such a statement opens you up to considerable ridicule if you are not.

Although this announcement is definitely important, there are simply way too many other factors to declare a definite winner of the HD optical war at this time.

Plaz your position has become more and more untenable over the past 9 months yet you stick with the notion that HD-DVD is going to win.

Soon enough everyone here is gonna have to face facts: Blu-ray is going to be the winning format.

I've been saying that consistently here since November 2006.

I don't agree with your assessment on BD v. HD (my preferred format is HD), but I do agree with your assessment on plazman. It seems HD can do nothing wrong in his opinion, which is crazy considering the numerous issues people have had. It's hard for me to give anyone's opinion credence when they shoot down valid complaints from paying customers, like he does.

Blockbuster video has made some pro-Bluray noises from time to time in this war, but apparentlyit is claimed by Phil Swann that Blockbuster be going to announce exclusive support for bluray, at the expense of HD DVD - which he claims they will announce this week.

If this turns out to be true, then a full boycott of Blockbuster is in order.

I'll be cancelling my membership the very minute they make any such announcement, and will be writing in the comments WHY I cancelled, as well as sending them email and letter statements on my feelings...

I think others may want to prepare to make a similar stand.

Netflix will likely continue to support both.

"The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, Blockbuster's senior vice president of merchandising, tells AP.
He also says, apparently that about 70% of Blockbuster's HD rentals are bluray.

So, in fact, 30% of his HD customers are saying "support HD DVD", too. I guess he's a LITTLE tone deaf when it comes to 30% of his customers?!

Also, to CLAIM to know what his customers have decided is slightly arrogant, especially when such claim is made on false truths. He states there are far more releases on BD because more studios support it, yet there are almost exactly the same number of releases on both formats. A falsity based on the same old argument that there are "more BD exclusive studios".

I feel very strongly that there has likely been a desperation deal under the table by Sony, giving Blockbuster an incentive to make this announcement.

Thank God for Netflix - to heck with Blockbuster.

Maybe I'm just an anal collector, but can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't rather buy the content? If you have the money to invest in one of these techs, you're obviously an avid movie-lover. So why wouldn't you want to build your own collection?

I honestly don't get the renting thing, I like to own my toys LOL.

I like to buy quality titles and titles that my kids are going to watch repeatedly.

So far I have purchased 5.

Thanks to Netflix and BB I have watched 50+ for less than the cost of the 5 that I purchased.

As more quality releases happen I will purchased a lot more, but my day to day watching will still be dominated by rental viewing.

awesome for blu ray but just how much business is Blockbuster getting... Netflix has them toast

We love to use the term "format war" at these forums.

So here is my analogy as to what has happened:

Up until now the armaments being used were machine guns and 105mm howitzers. Now the BDA via BB successfully launched a missle at HD DVD and scored a direct hit. It was not a nuclear bomb - but it did a lot of damage.

Nuclear Bomb - Wal-Mart announces they will only carry BD - they did just ink a deal with Sony for sales of their LCD's. Could BD be far behind?

Oh and this story is flying around he world. It is already on CNN and many news oriented websites and I believe some newspapers already have the story.

When Sony makes a claim - everyone goes "big deal" or laughs. When Toshiba makes a claim - everyone goes "big deal" - just two warring companies "tossing" at each other - good drama

But when BB says they will only carry BD - everyone notices and all are saying the same thing - "this is a big deal."

Oh and for the 100 of you that are going to cancel your BB membership or continue to ignore BB . . . . .

"Big Deal!"

I am very suprised by this announcement, did anyone here see this coming? It never even crossed my mind.

I just hopes this means my local stores are going to carry BD movies, if they do I will probably go back having only Blockbuster instead of using both Blockbuster and Netflix.

Obviously this is good news for BD and bad news for HD DVD.

Kind of makes me wonder what else is going to happen this week.


It was obvious this was going to happen at one point or another as it always has for every new video format. VHS was replaced by DVD's in the same manner and that happened rather quickly I might add after Blockbuster made the decision. I remember buying at that time many VHS titles for 1 dollar at the bargain bin. I probably spent over $100 buying 1 dollar movie's which I did watch all of them however they are now taking up space in the garage. My DVD collection is not going in the garage, and if I do double dip and replace some titles, I will simply give those titles away to my parents who still have a CRT at home and can't tell the difference... I also remember the BEta-Max vs VHS fight that happened at the rentals as well. In those times, many rental stores chose sides and a Blockbuster had not emerged yet since most were mom and pop rental facilities. That was a more intersting and hard fought battle since they were the "first" home video format that was affordable by everyone...

They will continue to carry HD-DVD in blockbuster online which is what i use but will now investigate Netflix. Oh well - the blockbuster stores are nearly empty where I live anyway. My understanding is that they are losing money both in store as well as online trying to compete with Netflix - don't see how this helps them any.

awesome for blu ray but just how much business is Blockbuster getting... Netflix has them toast

Blockbuster does about 5x the business that Netflix does, if you go through this thread you will see figures for both companies.

Basically it comes down to this:

Netflix ~1 Billion
Blockbuster ~5 Billion

Netflix has been taking market share from Blockbuster, but they have a ways to go.

FWIW I use both, and love it.

You may well end up being right, but to make such a statement opens you up to considerable ridicule if you are not.

Although this announcement is definitely important, there are simply way too many other factors to declare a definite winner of the HD optical war at this time.

If it turns out I am wrong, I'll take the heat from the other members. :)

It will actually not be that different from November 2006, when I first started posting here that Blu-ray will win. That was a VERY umpopular position to take on this forum back then. (HD-DVD had the lead.)

Blu-ray owners put up with lots of flames from HD-DVD posters back then!

---
So, in fact, 30% of his HD customers are saying "support HD DVD", too. I guess he's a LITTLE tone deaf when it comes to 30% of his customers?!

Also, to CLAIM to know what his customers have decided is slightly arrogant, especially when such claim is made on false truths. He states there are far more releases on BD because more studios support it, yet there are almost exactly the same number of releases on both formats. A falsity based on the same old argument that there are "more BD exclusive studios".

I feel very strongly that there has likely been a desperation deal under the table by Sony, giving Blockbuster an incentive to make this announcement.

Thank God for Netflix - to heck with Blockbuster.

Saving shelf space by going from two formats to one could make good business sense and might represent BB's best way to manage HD rentals. If given a choice between hacking off 30% of your HD customers or 70% of your HD customers, what would you do ?

I don't know what percentage of rentals are new release vs. catalog release. I suspect the majority of rentals are new releases where Blu-Ray seems to have an edge (because of edge in number of supporting studios). Maybe this is where Blu-Ray rentals seems to have gotten the edge over HD-DVD, at least with BB.

Blockbuster comes up with a business re-org every 6 months or so :D

Here is their quarterly statements - last Q they lost money!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=BBI


You can also look at their cash flow statement and see that BBI is borrowing money to run their operations. Their annual revenue has also declined for the last 3 years. These are exactly opposite of Netflix!

So, IMO this is an example of poor management, making poor decisions and slowly running the company to the ground. JMHO.
Exactly.

In my opinion they have been offered an incentive of some sort to go this route. In the short-term it may seem sensible, but in the long tern they have messed up large... and ALSO handed 30 to 40 % of the next gen market to their cheif competitor - Netflix.

Perhaps Sony has offered to buy Blockbuster? ;)

I've not followed the format war very closely, but blu-ray always seemed to make more sense as a "final" physical format until all media is able to be downloaded. Many HD-DVD supporters seem to be more anti-Sony than Pro-HD-DVD.

With the Blockbuster announcement it seems to me that we have reached a critical mass in the format war. Blockbuster's move is likely to spur similar moves from the big box retailers who surely want an end to the confusion brought about by the two competing formats so that they can start selling more hardware and media.

What plays does HD-DVD really have left? The top 3 grossing studios are blu-ray exclusive, and with this news you can be assured that none of them are going to start releasing on HD-DVD. Every format war is won or lost based on content, and blu-ray has a big advantage in that regard.

awesome for blu ray but just how much business is Blockbuster getting... Netflix has them toast


You can bet your rump Netflix is being approached by Microsoft and lot sof money talk is being thrown around. However this 2005 article might shed some light as to where Netflix will support...

http://www.dvguru.com/2005/11/20/netflix-declares-blu-ray-the-winner/

This is back in 2005... Barry McCarthy, the Chief Financial Officer of Netflix "As many know there's been a format war. Two formats have been proposed as a successor to DVD, one sponsored by Warner primarily and one sponsored by Sony. Warner is HDDvd and Sony is Blu-Ray. I think it's pretty clear that Blu-Ray has won. Even Warner has agreed to license and to release technology to Blu-Ray, only Universal hasn't made a commitment at this point, so I think the format wars are a thing of the past and I think it's going to be Blu-Ray. I think the content will get priced at a 20% premium. I think it's going to roll out slowly over time."

If this turns out to be true, then a full boycott of Blockbuster is in order.

So when does the new website go up?

:D

Netflix CEO sits at the Microsoft Board of Directors. ;)

If Netflix' rentals are similar to BB's--with a preponderance to Blu-ray--it would be hard for them to go exclusive for HD DVD.

Moreover, BB is continuing with HD DVD on-line, it is only at their stores that they are becoming exclusive for Blu-ray. Netflix has no stores, hence no clear motivation to be exclusive anyway.

Saving shelf space by going from two formats to one could make good business sense and might represent BB's best way to manage HD rentals. If given a choice between hacking off 30% of your HD customers or 70% of your HD customers, what would you do ?What percentage of Blockbuster's customers do you think rent VHS tapes versus DVD? And yet they still rent VHS tapes...

They will continue to carry HD-DVD in blockbuster online which is what i use but will now investigate Netflix. Oh well - the blockbuster stores are nearly empty where I live anyway. My understanding is that they are losing money both in store as well as online trying to compete with Netflix - don't see how this helps them any.
They are also empty in my area too. We only have 3 rental places in the area.. A Blockbuster, A PrimeTime Video, and A Family Video. There is nobody ever at the Blockbuster. Most business in my area is at FamilyVideo.

I think we really need to now look at the secondary effects of this announcement and ask some of the following questions:

1. If Blockbuster is going Blu-ray exclusive and Toshiba just lowered its HD-DVD expectations by 44%, why would any company such as Fox or Disney even consider format nutrality?

2. Blockbuster made this decision based on a pilot program and determined that they feel the best financial solution for them is to aid in ending this format was as quickly as possible. When will other companies such as Bestbuy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City and Sear follow BB's lead?

3. Can Universal continue to hold out of releasing on Blu-ray much longer. Essentially all of their HD content will not be carried in the stores of the overwhelming leader in rentals in the world. They already are missing out on an installed hardware base in the millions (PS3) and now have been cut out of the largest rental chain (Blockbuster). Their investors will only take so much of this considering NBC/Universal is a financial mess right now.

~Josh

Blockbuster does about 5x the business that Netflix does, if you go through this thread you will see figures for both companies.

Basically it comes down to this:

Netflix ~1 Billion
Blockbuster ~5 Billion

Netflix has been taking market share from Blockbuster, but they have a ways to go.

FWIW I use both, and love it.

This is an important point people need to take into consideration. and out of that 1 billion only 1% of that is from HD-DVD rentals... So for Blockbuster that 1% becomes 5% if you are looking at comparing quantity of rentals in comparison. What this shows is that Blockbusters growth rate for Blu-Ray adoption will be much larger, especially since in-store is still at a 4 to 1 ratio for sales. That means 75% of Blockbusters revenue is still made in-store. So you see Netflix has a long way to go to catch up and even if they continue to back HD-DVD it won't make much a difference...

If this turns out to be true, then a full boycott of Blockbuster is in order.


How's that studio petition coming along?

You can bet your rump Netflix is being approached by Microsoft and lot sof money talk is being thrown around. However this 2005 article might shed some light as to where Netflix will support...

That I highly doubt. For all the verbal and viral support MS is willing to give to HD DVD (and of course development support, for which they are paid), I don't think they're willing to risk even one dime of their own money on it when their heart lies in DL content.

I guess i'm a little late hearing the news.
But this is excellent news. At my local blockbuster they have close to twice the blu-rays over hd-dvd. Maybe now they can stock more blu-ray movies instead of wasting shelf space for hd-dvd. This is the reason i got BB online because of the in store trade in. I'm sometimes able to get movies instantly there while in my queue its marked as long wait. Although, with the popularity of blu-ray, its getting progressively more difficult to get the movies I want from the store.

What percentage of Blockbuster's customers do you think rent VHS tapes versus DVD? And yet they still rent VHS tapes...

They are still going to rent HD DVDs online and in 250 stores as well.

beatboy, if I were an NBC shareholder I'd either dump my stock or use it to vote against whoever is keeping them with hd dvd. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Netflix CEO sits at the Microsoft Board of Directors. ;)
Excellent - Netflix has far better support for both HD and BD anyway.

Titles I ordered from both always came from Netflix first, with less wait.

I'll look forward to saving my membership fees with BB, and getting better service from Netflix...

Hmmm I think it's time to get a PS3 :)

If it turns out I am wrong, I'll take the heat from the other members. :)

It will actually not be that different from November 2006, when I first started posting here that Blu-ray will win. That was a VERY unpopular position to take on this forum back then. (HD-DVD had the lead.)You are missing the point.

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

Blockbuster comes up with a business re-org every 6 months or so :D

Here is their quarterly statements - last Q they lost money!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=BBI


You can also look at their cash flow statement and see that BBI is borrowing money to run their operations. Their annual revenue has also declined for the last 3 years. These are exactly opposite of Netflix!

So, IMO this is an example of poor management, making poor decisions and slowly running the company to the ground. JMHO.

Plaz,

Then surely you must feel the same way about Universal. First they decide to not release their films on an installed hardware base in the millions (PS3) and now they have been cut-out of the largest rental chain in the world (Blockbuster) in terms of HD disc rentals.

So for a company such as NBC/Universal who struggles to not finish in 4th place in the Network ratings and who is a financial mess right now, why not address their issues as well?

~Josh

They will continue to carry HD-DVD in blockbuster online which is what i use but will now investigate Netflix. Oh well - the blockbuster stores are nearly empty where I live anyway. My understanding is that they are losing money both in store as well as online trying to compete with Netflix - don't see how this helps them any.

Leaving the Blockbuster online only serves to validate their plan. And if HD DVD renters leave en masse and it gets commented on them at any time, it'll only reinforce what they've done to other retailers/rental outfits.

How's that studio petition coming along?
Pretty well, thanks ;) Nice of you to ask... Over 7,000 signatories.

Blockbuster video has made some pro-Bluray noises from time to time in this war, but apparentlyit is claimed by Phil Swann that Blockbuster.....Perhaps you should read the topic before posting. There is a Blockbuster press release confirming the first news of this from the Associated Press.

The bottom line is this: most consumers, most manufacturers, most studios and most retailers do not want two formats. Period. They never did and they are anxious now that we are a year into this to finally do something about it. The reality is, whether some want to admit it or not, there is and has been a trend toward Blu-ray. The 70% figure for rentals according to Blockbuster is similar to what the Nielson numbers have been, as well. Most people believe this is enough disparity between the formats to kill one off and move to a single one.

Pretty well, thanks ;) Nice of you to ask... Over 7,000 signatories.

Wasn't it over 7000 at the end of '06 as well? ;)

More importantly - what are the results? :p

"Incentives offered from Sony"

"back room deal"

"Sony pays a ton of money to BB"

Of course!

When you play the game "bet your company" as Sony has done with BD - you do ANYTHING that will allow you to succeed.

BD is not just a video format for the consumer. It is also a format for the Pro Video users where Sony holds the lions share of business (justask anyone in the business how well Beta-Max paid off for Sony). It is also a recordable media for the PC and Sony sells PC's.

Excellent - Netflix has far better support for both HD and BD anyway.

Titles I ordered from both always came from Netflix first, with less wait.

I'll look forward to saving my membership fees with BB, and getting better service from Netflix...

What will you think of Netflix if they follow Blockbuster? I think at some point this year it's a strong possibility.

They are still going to rent HD DVDs online and in 250 stores as well.
Given this announcement, there is no point in renting from Blockbuster.

At least we can be assured that Netflix will do what's right for their customers and support BOTH formats.

BBs only advantage was that you could rent in both the Brick and Mortar, as well as online.

They have now thrown this advantage away in order to support Sony with a political statement, IMO.

To heck with 'em. Netflix has better support and faster turnarounds anyway.

I think we really need to now look at the secondary effects of this announcement and ask some of the following questions:

1. If Blockbuster is going Blu-ray exclusive and Toshiba just lowered its HD-DVD expectations by 44%, why would any company such as Fox or Disney even consider format nutrality?

2. Blockbuster made this decision based on a pilot program and determined that they feel the best financial solution for them is to aid in ending this format was as quickly as possible. When will other companies such as Bestbuy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City and Sear follow BB's lead?

3. Can Universal continue to hold out of releasing on Blu-ray much longer. Essentially all of their HD content will not be carried in the stores of the overwhelming leader in rentals in the world. They already are missing out on an installed hardware base in the millions (PS3) and now have been cut out of the largest rental chain (Blockbuster). Their investors will only take so much of this considering NBC/Universal is a financial mess right now.

~Josh


retailers hate the war. it makes very little sense for them to support a struggling format. if bd can deliver a low cost player that satisfies J6P's they will probably shift their stance. xmas sales are crucial for them and they need content in addition to cheap players. if sony announces spiderman and commits to a major ad campaign build around it then some of them may stock bd exclusively.

... and now they have been cut-out of the largest rental chain in the world (Blockbuster) in terms of HD disc rentals.


So far this is untrue.

BB still rents HD DVD online and in a large number of bm locations.

What percentage of Blockbuster's customers do you think rent VHS tapes versus DVD? And yet they still rent VHS tapes...

I'd suggest both DVD and VHS had significant rental volumes at one time or another (VHS dominant at one time). I don't know what the relative percentages are today but I suspect there are STILL far more VHS tape rentals than HD video rentals today.

You've always wanted a PS3 game console, eh ? Now's your excuse if you are into movie rentals. I haven't rented a video in years.

I think we really need to now look at the secondary effects of this announcement and ask some of the following questions:

1. If Blockbuster is going Blu-ray exclusive and Toshiba just lowered its HD-DVD expectations by 44%, why would any company such as Fox or Disney even consider format nutrality?

2. Blockbuster made this decision based on a pilot program and determined that they feel the best financial solution for them is to aid in ending this format was as quickly as possible. When will other companies such as Bestbuy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City and Sear follow BB's lead?

3. Can Universal continue to hold out of releasing on Blu-ray much longer. Essentially all of their HD content will not be carried in the stores of the overwhelming leader in rentals in the world. They already are missing out on an installed hardware base in the millions (PS3) and now have been cut out of the largest rental chain (Blockbuster). Their investors will only take so much of this considering NBC/Universal is a financial mess right now.

~Josh

Good points, things are looking good for Blu Ray. Hope that Wed. announcement is good also. :)

So far this is untrue.

BB still rents HD DVD online and in a large number of bm locations.

5%

"Incentives offered from Sony"

"back room deal"

"Sony pays a ton of money to BB"

Of course!

When you play the game "bet your company" as Sony has done with BD - you do ANYTHING that will allow you to succeed.

BD is not just a video format for the consumer. It is also a format for the Pro Video users where Sony holds the lions share of business (justask anyone in the business how well Beta-Max paid off for Sony). It is also a recordable media for the PC and Sony sells PC's.

If Sony gave BB incentives to go exclusive, it could well end up costing them billions.

Leaving the Blockbuster online only serves to validate their plan.
Then let's validate away.

They have exposed themselves to their competitiors by making a premature and risky move, that has alienated (at the very least) 30 to 40% of their next-gen customers.

My business can help their more fair-minded competitiors GROW market share on them - so that's exactly what I'll do.

With a little luck, perhaps Netflix is ready to make their own move into brick and mortar soon... ;)

And if HD DVD renters leave en masse and it gets commented on them at any time, it'll only reinforce what they've done to other retailers/rental outfits.If it gets commented on, then folks may say "well, it was their own doing. Stupid move on their part..."

"Incentives offered from Sony"

"back room deal"

"Sony pays a ton of money to BB"

Of course!

When you play the game "bet your company" as Sony has done with BD - you do ANYTHING that will allow you to succeed.Indeed. Even if the speculation is true, it should be no surprise to anyone.

They have exposed themselves to their competitiors by making a premature and risky move, that has alienated (at the very least) 40% of their next-gen customers.

Seemed like they said 30%... and I guess they were just willing to bite the bullet on losing those 200 memberships. ;)

I just hope whichever side wins has some cheap players. so that it doesn't stay a niche format. But if you want my opinion. hd dvd and blu ray will be a niche format. I am gonna bookmark this just in case I am right :D if not then ill delete the bookmark lol


Nope dude, DVD is going to go bye bye in 2 years. We will see less than $200 HD-DVD and Bluray Players by this time next year. By Christmas 2008, they will be less than $150....thats a mainstream price. HD-DVD will be dead by 2009....so most of these will be bluray players....also by that time HDTV will be in alot more homes. Its all going to come into its own in about 2 to 3 years.

Man things are moving so fast now!

RIP HD-DVD...you had a cool name....

You are missing the point.

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.


Well maybe it would be more clear if I said:

"I have felt very strongly for a long time that Blu-ray will win the HD format war."

Is that better?

Obviously no person can see into the future in a specific crystal clear way. If you know someone who can, ask them to PM me some lottery numbers! :p

Then let's validate away.

They have exposed themselves to their competitiors by making a premature and risky move, that has alienated (at the very least) 40% of their next-gen customers.

My business can help their more fair-minded competitiors GROW market share on them - so that's exactly what I'll do.

With a little luck, perhaps Netflix is ready to make their own move into brick and mortar soon... ;)

If it gets commented on, then folks may say "well, it was their own doing. Stupid move on their part..."

30%, didn't you read the press release? ;)

Perhaps you should read the topic before posting. There is a Blockbuster press release confirming the first news of this from the Associated Press.
Sorry Ken - yes, I moved my post from another thread which was closed. When I got to this official thread, I read the reports and knew it was official, but forgot to modify my original post before copying it over.

I'll take care of it now.

Leaving the Blockbuster online only serves to validate their plan. And if HD DVD renters leave en masse and it gets commented on them at any time, it'll only reinforce what they've done to other retailers/rental outfits.


They can leave, because there aint much of them...

You are missing the point.

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

Wasn't it you would stated matter-of-factly that downloads are in our future:

Just wait. Once downloading becomes the norm, that will all change. It's only a matter of time.

And of course, when challenged as to why it would happen, you said:

Because it's going to happen.

Are you saying you are flat out wrong?

5%

250/1700 = Appox. 15% of B&M stores + online

Given this announcement, there is no point in renting from Blockbuster.

At least we can be assured that Netflix will do what's right for their customers and support BOTH formats.

BBs only advantage was that you could rent in both the Brick and Mortar, as well as online.

They have now thrown this advantage away in order to support Sony with a political statement, IMO.

To heck with 'em. Netflix has better support and faster turnarounds anyway.


Oohh, someone sounds mad...How has Blockbuster thrown any advantage away? They have made a decision based on who they feel will win this format war and make it easier on customers coming in to rent since having two discs, one blue and one red, of the exact same title would be confusing to people and be a waste of space on the shelves...

Given this announcement, there is no point in renting from Blockbuster.

At least we can be assured that Netflix will do what's right for their customers and support BOTH formats.

BBs only advantage was that you could rent in both the Brick and Mortar, as well as online.

They have now thrown this advantage away in order to support Sony with a political statement, IMO.

To heck with 'em. Netflix has better support and faster turnarounds anyway.

From a Floridian? (I live near Ft. Lauderdale). Your statement is just anti-Sony. It is a great move for BB. It puts them on the forefront of the new HD media that is earmaked to replace DVD (if that is possible)

Today . . . 6/18/07 . . . BD has outsold HD DVD:

1. Players
2. Disc Sales
3. Disc Rentals

Yes everyone maybe rooting for the underdog but that doesn't mean he will win. He usually doesn't.

So Ken G. from Universal has know about this since yesterday around 9:00 PM when the story broke and he was quoted as to it's importance. It is 13 hours later and not a peep from the HD DVD Forum.

Well maybe it would be more clear if I said:

"I have felt very strongly for a long time that Blu-ray will win the HD format war."

Is that better?
Much.

I have only one thing to say:
Go Blu-ray!

250/1700 = Appox. 15% of B&M stores + online

They have 5000+ stores right?

I think the 1700 figure was the amount of stores that would be carrying blu-ray.

I like to buy quality titles and titles that my kids are going to watch repeatedly.

So far I have purchased 5.

Thanks to Netflix and BB I have watched 50+ for less than the cost of the 5 that I purchased.

As more quality releases happen I will purchased a lot more, but my day to day watching will still be dominated by rental viewing.

Cool, to each his own I guess. I admit my DVD collection has some stinkers, but I just like to browse the aisles and say "Hrm, this looks interesting..." and pick it up. I think the last time I entered a BB was in 96, maybe 97?

They can leave, because there aint much of them...

Yeah, 30% of 1%.. .3%

Wow, I'm sure BB is trembling at losing them.

Rather use the floor space to grow the future platform than hang onto the dead one.

I think we really need to now look at the secondary effects of this announcement and ask some of the following questions:

1. If Blockbuster is going Blu-ray exclusive and Toshiba just lowered its HD-DVD expectations by 44%, why would any company such as Fox or Disney even consider format nutrality?

2. Blockbuster made this decision based on a pilot program and determined that they feel the best financial solution for them is to aid in ending this format was as quickly as possible. When will other companies such as Bestbuy, Wal-Mart, Circuit City and Sear follow BB's lead?

3. Can Universal continue to hold out of releasing on Blu-ray much longer. Essentially all of their HD content will not be carried in the stores of the overwhelming leader in rentals in the world. They already are missing out on an installed hardware base in the millions (PS3) and now have been cut out of the largest rental chain (Blockbuster). Their investors will only take so much of this considering NBC/Universal is a financial mess right now.

~Josh

Can BEATBOY continue to post the same thing 20x in this thread until someone responds?

There, I responded >>> Quit making your points/ speculation.

It is clear to everyone that this COULD be the beginning of the end. If HD DVD doesn't hit hard the rest of the year, then I would say BR succeeds.

HOWEVER, until CHEAP BR players come out or the PS3 suddenly gets a game out there to make people want to buy the system then BR and HD DVD is STILL a NICHE market. BB does carry every video game format out there. The shelf space for available BR is not going to be that large.

IF HD DVD penetrates well throughout the remainder of 2007, then BB will quickly change their buisness plan with HD. They change they're offers every couple of months with everything else.

Plaz,

Then surely you must feel the same way about Universal. First they decide to not release their films on an installed hardware base in the millions (PS3) and now they have been cut-out of the largest rental chain in the world (Blockbuster) in terms of HD disc rentals.

So for a company such as NBC/Universal who struggles to not finish in 4th place in the Network ratings and who is a financial mess right now, why not address their issues as well?

~Josh

NBC/Universal should be format neutral as well - just like all content providers.

Wasn't it over 7000 at the end of '06 as well? ;)Nope, if I recall, it was about 5,000 at December. So yes, it's still growing nicely, thank you, despite all the "false spam" attacks from opponents ;)

More importantly - what are the results? :pResults will come... nothing is accomplished in only a day.

I'm sure many in the industry will suspect that there is more behind his BB announcement than meets the eye. As the HD DVD market continues to grow, they will make the right decisions.

I think that this BB deal has been influenced unduly by one of the key players (ie Sony), and if so should be seen for what it is.

Wasn't it you would stated matter-of-factly that downloads are in our future:



And of course, when challenged as to why it would happen, you said:



Are you saying you are flat out wrong?

Moderator pwnage! Never thought I'd see the day :D

From a Floridian? (I live near Ft. Lauderdale). Your statement is just anti-Sony. It is a great move for BB. It puts them on the forefront of the new HD media that is earmaked to replace DVD (if that is possible)

Today . . . 6/18/07 . . . BD has outsold HD DVD:

1. Players
2. Disc Sales
3. Disc Rentals

Yes everyone maybe rooting for the underdog but that doesn't mean he will win. He usually doesn't.

So Ken G. from Universal has know about this since yesterday around 9:00 PM when the story broke and he was quoted as to it's importance. It is 13 hours later and not a peep from the HD DVD Forum.

And I'm in Miami too and we already have a massive amount of Blu-Ray's available at the 137th Ave and 88th St Blockbuster :) The blockbuster closest to my house does not carry Blu-Ray yet however I have spoken to the Manager in charge and she says that by Christmas, she will take the plunge as well and stock up on Blu-Ray in-store since she recently got into HD and bought a Blu-Ray player. Apparently these talks have been going on for quite awhile...

As the HD DVD market continues to grow, they will make the right decisions.


I think this announcement is really going to hurt new HD DVD player sales.

30%, didn't you read the press release? ;)
Typo from my post - "30 to 40 %".

HD DVD sales continue to make gains, so it won't stay at 30%. In fact, it could well be 50/50 again this year.

another thing to consider. hddvd does significantly better in us than in europe, japan and australia. can universal afford to be locked out of those markets? do they go bd there and hddvd here?

Can BEATBOY continue to post the same thing 20x in this thread until someone responds?

There, I responded >>> Quit making your points/ speculation.

It is clear to everyone that this COULD be the beginning of the end. If HD DVD doesn't hit hard the rest of the year, then I would say BR succeeds.

HOWEVER, until CHEAP BR players come out or the PS3 suddenly gets a game out there to make people want to buy the system then BR and HD DVD is STILL a NICHE market. BB does carry every video game format out there. The shelf space for available BR is not going to be that large.

IF HD DVD penetrates well throughout the remainder of 2007, then BB will quickly change their buisness plan with HD. They change they're offers every couple of months with everything else.


Shelf space for Blu-Ray is already 3 to 1 the size of HD-DVD at my Best Buy in Miami. To the average onlooker, you can clearly see that Blu-Ray has more titles and this trend will continue unless Universal suddenly releases a much larger majority of their catalog titles.

Nope, if I recall, it was about 5,000 at December. So yes, it's still growing nicely, thank you, despite all the "false spam" attacks from opponents ;)

Results will come... nothing is accomplished in only a day.

Riiiight....

I'm sure many in the industry will suspect that there is more behind his BB announcement than meets the eye. As the HD DVD market continues to grow, they will make the right decisions.

I think that this BB deal has been influenced unduly by one of the key players (ie Sony), and if so should be seen for what it is.

No doubt RD, no doubt. Conspiracies around every corner. But when you say it "will be seen for what it is," what does that even mean? Firstly, I think it was internal to Blockbuster pure and simple, but even in the situation where Sony were to have paid them... hell, that's not insidious, it's just plain deft. What 'people' will see is that one group is willing to go the distance to secure victory, whereas the other side is really just not even a group at all, but a lone company fighting against the whirlwind with what will be a temporary edge in player pricing.

Typo from my post - "30 to 40 %".

HD DVD sales continue to make gains, so it won't stay at 30%. In fact, it could well be 50/50 again this year.

Ok, why would you want it to be 50/50? Wouldn't you rather there just be 1 format so they don't kill each other off?

What will you think of Netflix if they follow Blockbuster? I think at some point this year it's a strong possibility.
No chance - but Blockbuster's only hope is that people start a rumour on it.

Netflix is the way to go. They are fair-minded and CARE what their customers want to rent. I think what BB has shown is that they are potentially open to "persuasion" in terms of what they decide their customer must want...

Ok, why would you want it to be 50/50? Wouldn't you rather there just be 1 format so they don't kill each other off?

I think the answer to that question is clear.

HD DVD sales continue to make gains, so it won't stay at 30%. In fact, it could well be 50/50 again this year.

Can you point to some of these gains? Because here's what I see:

Date Week YTD SI

05/06 60/40 68/32 57/43
05/13 62/38 68/32 57/43
05/20 58/42 67/33 57/43
05/27 69/31 67/33 58/42
06/03 61/39 67/33 59/41
06/03 66/34 67/33 59/41

From a Floridian? (I live near Ft. Lauderdale). Your statement is just anti-Sony. It is a great move for BB. It puts them on the forefront of the new HD media that is earmaked to replace DVD (if that is possible)

Today . . . 6/18/07 . . . BD has outsold HD DVD:

1. Players
2. Disc Sales
3. Disc Rentals

Yes everyone maybe rooting for the underdog but that doesn't mean he will win. He usually doesn't.

So Ken G. from Universal has know about this since yesterday around 9:00 PM when the story broke and he was quoted as to it's importance. It is 13 hours later and not a peep from the HD DVD Forum.

The market share for disk sales seems to have stabilized lately at 35-40% of the overall HD market for HD DVD. So not wanting 40% of the market seems kind of strange...

In the end this will hurt Blockbuster since people will take their business elsewhere. DVD adoption wasn't hurt by Blockbuster sticking with VHS. Poor management, poor decisions. It isn't about BD being ahead of HD DVD, it's about shutting out customers - no business would want to lose 30% of their customers. Simple as that!

I also would not be surprised to see Blockbuster and Sony make some sort of deal where the new Sony Blu-ray player will be offered for sale in the Blockbuster stores with an incentive of x amount of free rentals. Just a prediction ;)

~Josh

HD DVD sales continue to make gains, so it won't stay at 30%. In fact, it could well be 50/50 again this year.

Umm....how on earth can you come to that conclusion? What possible scenario could play out for that to happen? Ok, maybe a $99 HD-DVD player would do the trick. :rolleyes:

The market share for disk sales seems to have stabilized lately at 35-40% of the overall HD market for HD DVD. So not wanting 40% of the market seems kind of strange...

In the end this will hurt Blockbuster since people will take their business elsewhere. DVD adoption wasn't hurt by Blockbuster sticking with VHS. Poor management, poor decisions. It isn't about BD being ahead of HD DVD, it's about shutting out customers - no business would want to lose 30% of their customers. Simple as that!

So what do you think of Universal? They have to be the biggest idiots to support the 35-40% and totally ignore the other format, right?

I think this announcement is really going to hurt new HD DVD player sales.

I just finished buying my third and last HD-DVD player. I bought an HD-A1, then an HD-XA2, and sold both and now have the HD-A2 which I got for $237 :) I am happy with the price and the speed of this player since I've watched about 15 movies fully on it so far and with the latest firmware I have not seen one glitch yet. Toshiba got it right with this latest A2 and latest firmware :) However I have maintained that I will buy the best movie regardless of format. I have bought Coming to America on HD-DVD because it is of better quality than the Blu-Ray version. I bought The Matrix on HD-DVD since it won't appear on Blu-Ray for who knows when. And ofcourse King Kong since Universal hasn't gone neutral. And I will buy Heroes once it comes out on HD-DVD. I am hapy with my A2 purchase and it will not be a waste even if HD-DVD loses this format war.. In fact, I had a beta-max for years after it was defeated and used it many times for watching movies and recordings..

However I am a realist and can easily see this move by Blockbuster is going to cause a "Domino" effect that other large popular retailers will take notice with and for sure some will try and get the same deal with Sony...

Wasn't it you would stated matter-of-factly that downloads are in our future:



And of course, when challenged as to why it would happen, you said:



Are you saying you are flat out wrong?You must be kidding. These are two entirely different issues.

Optical media is on it's last legs, but which one wins the war, if anyone, remains to be seen.

HD downloads, on the other hand, are inevitable.

Hmmm I think it's time to get a PS3 :)

There's no way I'm buying a PS3!!!


.
.
.

...before it gets a price drop. ;)

I hope this announcement from Blockbuster causes a cascade of similar announcements from others. Anything that will end this silly format war sooner rather than later is a good thing.

I'll be renting blu-ray disks from BB once they have them available.

No chance - but Blockbuster's only hope is that people start a rumour on it.

Netflix is the way to go. They are fair-minded and CARE what their customers want to rent. I think what BB has shown is that they are potentially open to "persuasion" in terms of what they decide their customer must want...

So every time a company picks BD, it's "ignoring" what customers want, despite the 2:1 sales ratio, and when they hold on to a product that cannot grow its marketshare despite establishing themselves with numerous loss-leading hardware products it's being "customer friendly"?

Whatever.

I see there is a Chinese Blu-ray player coming too...the final battle for Middle Earth (in HD) has begun...

From a Floridian? (I live near Ft. Lauderdale). Your statement is just anti-Sony. I really don't see how you could rationally claim that. My statement was clearly anti-Blockbuster. I do suspect that it will come out that they (BB) took special incentives (either financially or contractually) to make this premature and anti-consumer decision.

Sorry you are so sensitive that it is anti-Sony... The Sony Defense League awaits...

Moderator pwnage! Never thought I'd see the day :D
You didn't.

Can you point to some of these gains? Because here's what I see:

Date Week YTD SI

05/06 60/40 68/32 57/43
05/13 62/38 68/32 57/43
05/20 58/42 67/33 57/43
05/27 69/31 67/33 58/42
06/03 61/39 67/33 59/41
06/03 66/34 67/33 59/41

If anything you're seeing HD DVD doing better than 30% market share for every week! Including the week where BD had 3 big releases - PoTC 1, PoTC2 and Apocalypto, v. The Matrix box set for HD DVD (where the 3 BD titles combined cost the same as 1 Matrix box set and each box set counted as one sale v. 3 sales for each BD title). In $ terms both formats are remarkably close....

And I'm in Miami too and we already have a massive amount of Blu-Ray's available at the 137th Ave and 88th St Blockbuster :) The blockbuster closest to my house does not carry Blu-Ray yet however I have spoken to the Manager in charge and she says that by Christmas, she will take the plunge as well and stock up on Blu-Ray in-store since she recently got into HD and bought a Blu-Ray player. Apparently these talks have been going on for quite awhile...

I live in Tamarac (BB store - no HDD) but the Coral Springs BB does carry HDD and guess what? Yep - mucho more BD than HD DVD.

Please . . I ask all of you to look at the big picture. Not the small world that you live in.

Be a macro thinker as opposed to a micro thinker. Think as if you were the CEO of a multi-billion dollar company as opposed to the owner of a corner lemmonade stand.

Put your brand loyalty aside for a moment. Have you read my posts? I am an HD DVD owner. But I have also spent almost 30 years working with Fortune 500 companies and you know what? The bottom line . . that is what matters. That is ALL that matters.

If you are going to quote a "fact" then back it up with a link if such a link has not been provided already. Your opinion is just that . . your opinion . . . nothing more. Try not to twist your opinion into a fact. It won't work here. Too much FUD floating around.

If anything you're seeing HD DVD doing better than 30% market share for every week! Including the week where BD had 3 big releases - PoTC 1, PoTC2 and Apocalypto, v. The Matrix box set for HD DVD (where the 3 BD titles combined cost the same as 1 Matrix box set and each box set counted as one sale v. 3 sales for each BD title). In $ terms both formats are remarkably close....

Stunning.

And I'm in Miami too and we already have a massive amount of Blu-Ray's available at the 137th Ave and 88th St Blockbuster :) The blockbuster closest to my house does not carry Blu-Ray yet however I have spoken to the Manager in charge and she says that by Christmas, she will take the plunge as well and stock up on Blu-Ray in-store since she recently got into HD and bought a Blu-Ray player. Apparently these talks have been going on for quite awhile...
I use that Blockbuster ALL the time, and there are the same space for each format.

Or should I say, USED TO use... ;)

Shelf space for Blu-Ray is already 3 to 1 the size of HD-DVD at my Best Buy in Miami. To the average onlooker, you can clearly see that Blu-Ray has more titles and this trend will continue unless Universal suddenly releases a much larger majority of their catalog titles.


I didn't mean shelf space of BR vs. HD DVD. I mean shelf space in the store for BR> Product placement vs. SD DVD.

msft is making a bad situation worse by pushing downloads. this creates more and more enemies: blockbuster, wall mart, best buy, circuit city. all these company are better off with next gen optical successful.