If anything you're seeing HD DVD doing better than 30% market share for every week! Including the week where BD had 3 big releases - PoTC 1, PoTC2 and Apocalypto, v. The Matrix box set for HD DVD (where the 3 BD titles combined cost the same as 1 Matrix box set and each box set counted as one sale v. 3 sales for each BD title). In $ terms both formats are remarkably close....

????

I never said that HD DVD was doing 30% or worse in terms of weekly sales - what I did was challenge RDjam's claim of 'improvement,' and your post does nothing to address that. Matrix is a singularly bad example as well, since after its first week of sales, it's basically dropped off the map.

So every time a company picks BD, it's "ignoring" what customers want, despite the 2:1 sales ratio, and when they hold on to a product that cannot grow its marketshare despite establishing themselves with numerous loss-leading hardware products it's being "customer friendly"?

Whatever.

I see there is a Chinese Blu-ray player coming too...the final battle for Middle Earth (in HD) has begun...

Are you implying that HD DVD has more loss leading hardware than the BDA? Are you completely brainwashed :eek:

Also how does 25GB and 50GB BD disks cost the same? At least for HD DVD combo disks cost $5 more? Magic!

If anything you're seeing HD DVD doing better than 30% market share for every week! Including the week where BD had 3 big releases - PoTC 1, PoTC2 and Apocalypto, v. The Matrix box set for HD DVD (where the 3 BD titles combined cost the same as 1 Matrix box set and each box set counted as one sale v. 3 sales for each BD title). In $ terms both formats are remarkably close....

I see it differerntly than you do I guess. Since May 3rd BD has gained 6%.

Are you implying that HD DVD has more loss leading hardware than the BDA? Are you completely brainwashed :eek:

Also how does 25GB and 50GB BD disks cost the same? At least for HD DVD combo disks cost $5 more? Magic!

I asked you a simple question. Do you support Universal being exclusive when the majority of the market is going Blu-ray?

Nope dude, DVD is going to go bye bye in 2 years. We will see less than $200 HD-DVD and Bluray Players by this time next year. By Christmas 2008, they will be less than $150....thats a mainstream price. HD-DVD will be dead by 2009....so most of these will be bluray players....also by that time HDTV will be in alot more homes. Its all going to come into its own in about 2 to 3 years.

Man things are moving so fast now!

RIP HD-DVD...you had a cool name....

Maybe you aren't aware that DVD wasn't declared the replacement over VHS for six years from introduction, and DVD was a dramatic improvement over VHS.

HD formats are an "incremental" improvement to most consumers. There's no way people are going to go from buying their $9 discount bin DVDs to buying $25 HD movies in just two years.

Blockbuster Favors Blu-Ray DVDs to HD DVD

Blockbuster says Blu-ray has proven to be more popular with its customers than HD DVD.

Monday, June 18, 2007 6:00 AM PDT

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Blockbuster Inc. on Monday put its weight behind Sony Corp.'s Blu-ray DVD format, as the No. 1 video rental chain said it would boost its inventory of the high-definition discs to 1,700 stores by mid-July.

Blockbuster said Blu-ray has proven to be more popular with its customers than HD DVD, the competing high-definition format. The company will continue to offer both Blu-ray and rival HD-DVD titles through its online rental service.

Of some 8,000 stores worldwide, about 250 of them carry both formats, and Blu-ray rentals are "significantly outpacing HD DVD rentals," the company said in a statement.

Blockbuster rivals such as Movie Gallery Inc. and online rental company Netflix Inc. also offer both Blu-ray and HD DVD formats.

Blu-ray's high-definition digital technology, backed by Sony Corp., offers crisper pictures and more room for special features than current DVDs. The format competes with HD-DVD, which is backed by Toshiba Corp. and offers somewhat lower storage capacity, but claims cheaper production of players, burners and discs.

Measured in the number of players, Blu-ray is already well ahead of HD DVD because Sony's PlayStation 3 video game console comes with a built-in Blu-ray player.

Hollywood and electronics manufacturers hope new high-definition DVDs, with better picture quality and more capacity, will rejuvenate the slowing $24 billion home DVD market.

But the war between HD DVD and Blu-ray -- also supported by companies such as Samsung, Philips, Matsushita, Apple and Dell -- has curbed adoption of the new formats, amid fears that some consumers will end up with an obsolete player.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,132997-c,dvdtechnology/article.html

????

I never said that HD DVD was doing 30% or worse in terms of weekly sales - what I did was challenge RDjam's claim of 'improvement,' and your post does nothing to address that. Matrix is a singularly bad example as well, since after its first week of sales, it's basically dropped off the map.

I mentioned the Matrix since that is the only week where the ratio went beyond 2:1. Other than that the ratios were closer to 1.5:1. So that is a clear improvement of what we saw in Q1 of this year. We are NOT seeing BD eat away at HD DVD market share as many predicted....it appears to have stabilized.

And yes, the Matrix is too expensive for a catalog box set where bundling hurt the unit sales, but helped revenue...

You must be kidding. These are two entirely different issues.

Optical media is on it's last legs, but which one wins the war, if anyone, remains to be seen.

HD downloads, on the other hand, are inevitable.

HD downloads are inevitable, however I don't see the optical format ever completly going away as long as there are people like me who want to have the movie sitting on a shelf with nice box-art and knowing all I have to do is put it in a player and hit play. The rental companies as well will not allow it to go away either as long as consumers keep going to them. Downloadable content is already here in the form of Video on Demand and it is blocky, compressed, and not something any Audio and Video enthusiast would put up with for long if something better on an optical media did not exist...

I also would not be surprised to see Blockbuster and Sony make some sort of deal where the new Sony Blu-ray player will be offered for sale in the Blockbuster stores with an incentive of x amount of free rentals. Just a prediction ;)

~Josh
That's pretty much what I have implied.

I feel that BB has taken an incentive here, as Sony needed this more than BB.

BB has potentially thrown some of their customers under the bus in return for a market advantage of some sort.

If so, one might expect to see some exclusive releases in Blockbuster from various Sony Pictures-related studios, or some favourable pricing or contract terms.

Yep - and maybe a player or two in stores...

Actual Blockbuster Press release link below;

http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=553&ResLibraryID=20345&Category=1027

So what do you think of Universal? They have to be the biggest idiots to support the 35-40% and totally ignore the other format, right?
They are a key player in the "game", just as there are key players on the other side also. No surprises there.

But Blockbuster is supposed to be a neutral party who's main concern is the needs of their customers. This decision clearly shows they have turned their back on many customers...

They are a key player in the "game", just as there are key players on the other side also. No surprises there.

But Blockbuster is supposed to be a neutral party who's main concern is the needs of their customers. This decision clearly shows they have turned their back on many customers...

They turned their back on .3% of customers in order to grow the .7%.

It's universal that's being the pain and not releasing BD's already.

It's a stupid 'game' to play anyway. Lets get this done already. Why the emotional investment in hddvd? If this was hd dvd I might be upset, all things considered now. Had hd dvd had higher capacity and was selling more and then got this shaft, I'd be pissed.

Right now though, it's perfectly logical.

You must be kidding. These are two entirely different issues.

Optical media is on it's last legs, but which one wins the war, if anyone, remains to be seen.

HD downloads, on the other hand, are inevitable.

Would you care to revise your post, then? Your statement was a blanket statement which did not specifically comply itself to only the format war. Here are two suggestions for revised statements (bold my addition):

1) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds in the format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

2) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds assuming you are not a moderator. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong unless you are a moderator.

Do you have a preference? Just trying to understand forum rule.

I mentioned the Matrix since that is the only week where the ratio went beyond 2:1. Other than that the ratios were closer to 1.5:1. So that is a clear improvement of what we saw in Q1 of this year. We are NOT seeing BD eat away at HD DVD market share as many predicted....it appears to have stabilized.

And yes, the Matrix is too expensive for a catalog box set where bundling hurt the unit sales, but helped revenue...

Plazman, what does this post of yours have to do with supporting RD's position that HD DVD 'continues to gain ground' on content sales? You're trying to give an answer to a question I never asked. In fact, let's just agree that it has stabilized, and that contrary to your intent to aid RD in his position, you nevertheless concede implicitly that indeed, there is little headway being made by HD DVD media sales at the moment.

What percentage of Blockbuster's customers do you think rent VHS tapes versus DVD? And yet they still rent VHS tapes...

Ah but there was a time when 90%+ of Blockbusters customers rented VHS, and the entire store was VHS, less a small section for LD and Games. Not to mention that there are VHS releases that still have not made it to DVD. Compared to the roughly 1/3 of 1% that make up the HD-DVD market, I imagine that that VHS>HD-DVD in terms of B&M rentals. Of course if you have the official numbers you may share them.

I hope this announcement from Blockbuster causes a cascade of similar announcements from others. Anything that will end this silly format war sooner rather than later is a good thing.

I'll be renting blu-ray disks from BB once they have them available.
?? they already have been renting them..

BTW - If I was a Blockbuster competitor, it would make a lot of sense to create a competitive advantage by supporting HD DVD and Bluray, both...

BTW2 - if BB was given a financial incentive for this, then that would likely fall foul of anti-competition and anti-consumer laws....

I asked you a simple question. Do you support Universal being exclusive when the majority of the market is going Blu-ray?

OK. I have said this many many times. ALL content provicers should be neutral. So, yes. Universal should be neutral as well.

As for the majority going Blu Ray - the simple fact is that the same title on both formats in the last couple of months sell almost the same in both formats, so the contention that BD has bigger market for any title is just false. Studios are probably leaving 40-50% in $$ terms by being format exclusive. However, the excuse for them is that the markets for both formats are too small to matter. But if we see growth at some point studios will have to go neutral...

What will matter is how much $$$$ studios can make from these formats. Not how many units are sold. Although both may be related, they are not the same.

?? they already have been renting them..

BTW - If I was a Blockbuster competitor, it would make a lot of sense to create a competitive advantage by supporting HD DVD and Bluray, both...

Again, why both? What advantage is there to keeping the format war going on?

OK. I have said this many many times. ALL content provicers should be neutral. So, yes. Universal should be neutral as well.

As for the majority going Blu Ray - the simple fact is that the same title on both formats in the last couple of months sell almost the same in both formats, so the contention that BD has bigger market for any title is just false. Studios are probably leaving 40-50% in $$ terms by being format exclusive. However, the excuse for them is that the markets for both formats are too small to matter. But if we see growth at some point studios will have to go neutral...

What will matter is how much $$$$ studios can make from these formats. Not how many units are sold. Although both may be related, they are not the same.

Problem is, it's a lot easier for Universal to just go BD than for everyone else to switch over to the lower selling format.

I use that Blockbuster ALL the time, and there are the same space for each format.

Or should I say, USED TO use... ;)

The shelf space comment was for Best Buy.. Both are BB's so this can get confusing ;)


LOL@ the "used to use" comment. :) All this is just fun to watch and be a part of regardless of what happens. Both you and I are just average citizens who have a preference over one format over the other even though we may have a million other things in common.. I wouldn't be surprised If we know each other by face and have met at Don Carter's before it got destroyed or played in the same bowling league there..lol... I am glad I joined this forum when I did and have learned a lot about a variety of things that have to do with audio and video.. It is fun reading the comments from everyone and the usual plazman pro-HD-DVD comments that spin the issue to HD-DVD 's favor every time no matter what happens.. :)

I am very suprised by this announcement, did anyone here see this coming? It never even crossed my mind.

I just hopes this means my local stores are going to carry BD movies, if they do I will probably go back having only Blockbuster instead of using both Blockbuster and Netflix.

I didn't see HD DVD not being carried. I knew Blu-ray would be carried in store because I've been bugging my store for 6 months now. Everytime I'd return a Blu-ray in-store and pick up a DVD, I'd ask if they got any news about carrying Blu-ray in their store. That way when I return my online Blu-ray in-store, I can pick up a instant Blu-ray to take home while they send the next BD in my queue. They kept telling me that they will be carrying Blu-ray, but haven't heard any timelines. So, needless to say, I'm very happy about the news.

Would you care to revise your post, then? Your statement was a blanket statement which did not specifically comply itself to only the format war. Here are two suggestions for revised statements (bold my addition):

1) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds in the format war between Blu-ray and HD DVD. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

2) It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds assuming you are not a moderator. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong unless you are a moderator.

Do you have a preference?
I concur. When someone says "the future" I would like a timetable. Does the future mean 100 years from now, or five. Because if its five, I can guarantee that downloads will still be a small percentage of all movies watched. In a hundred years, I'd say downloads are inevitable.

...amid fears that some consumers will end up with an obsolete player....like the sub-spec and yet-to-be-replaced BD 1.0 players still being sold?....

Would you care to revise your post, then? Your statement was a blanket statement which did not specifically comply itself to only the format war.
Nope, because you didn't pay close enough attention to what I said.

I did not make a blanket statement about knowing what the future holds. In some cases, it is possible to know what the future holds.

I specifically said:

It's one thing to have an opinion, it's completely different to state you know specifically what the future holds. Quite frankly, I think anyone with that mentality on this issue is flat out wrong.

...like the sub-spec and yet-to-be-replaced BD 1.0 players still being sold?....

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.

I concur. When someone says "the future" I would like a timetable. Does the future mean 100 years from now, or five. Because if its five, I can guarantee that downloads will still be a small percentage of all movies watched. In a hundred years, I'd say downloads are inevitable.

By 2030 I bet everything is downloaded. And by 100, I bet there's a teleportation scheme.

Heck, by 2040 or so we'll be into the technological singularity area where it'll be impossible to predict.

I think by 2025 or so, downloads will be the dominating scheme. For the next 15 years or so, physical media will have the advantage. IMO.

The market share for disk sales seems to have stabilized lately at 35-40% of the overall HD market for HD DVD. So not wanting 40% of the market seems kind of strange...

In the end this will hurt Blockbuster since people will take their business elsewhere. DVD adoption wasn't hurt by Blockbuster sticking with VHS. Poor management, poor decisions. It isn't about BD being ahead of HD DVD, it's about shutting out customers - no business would want to lose 30% of their customers. Simple as that!
Plazman, you got to be kidding yourself: a few HD-DVD enthusiasts that you "predict" will be taking their business away from BB, even if true, would not make even a blip on BB's radar. You can stay in denial mode, but no matter how the facts are spinned, the writing has been on the wall for a long time now.
I for one, do not see this move by BB as a death blow to HD-DVD, but in combination with other aspects it might as well become in the near future. There is no point in denying the momentum Blu-Ray has currently in the industry.
And to those BB haters out there: BB has been offering great service, Their online service is in my opinion superior to other similar services (and yes, i was using NetFlix before as well). Once you take your hatred glasses off your eyes, you will see this on your own. Enough of hatred already, just get out of the box you were sitting for a long while.

That's not true, the 360 has outsold the ps3's first 6 months of being released. If you have a link I would like to see it.

I think if you really were looking at the numbers that matter, you'd know that:

- 360 has a year lead time.
- 360 has an established game library with some key system sellers (eg. Gears of War)
- PS3 outsold 360's launch cycle.
- PS3 has an added bonus of non-gamers buying it for Blu-ray playback ootb.
- 360 has been on a plateau of around 10M units for some time now.

Add to this that the 360 sold, what, 6000 units in Japan last month? Japan alone will catch the PS3 up to the 360 inside the next 12 months.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 360, but I can't see it breaking beyond the hard-core market (much like the original Xbox). As the Japanese often say, "Xbox is good, if you want to play shooters." Not exactly true, but it cuts to the issue that Microsoft will face over the next couple years.

I think if you really were looking at the numbers that matter, you'd know that:

- 360 has a year lead time.
- 360 has an established game library with some key system sellers (eg. Gears of War)
- PS3 outsold 360's launch cycle.
- PS3 has an added bonus of non-gamers buying it for Blu-ray playback ootb.
- 360 has been on a plateau of around 10M units for some time now.

Add to this that the 360 sold, what, 6000 units in Japan last month? Japan alone will catch the PS3 up to the 360 inside the next 12 months.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 360, but I can't see it breaking beyond the hard-core market (much like the original Xbox). As the Japanese often say, "Xbox is good, if you want to play shooters." Not exactly true, but it cuts to the issue that Microsoft will face over the next couple years.

also, remember ps2 still has the largest user base by far and those are more likely to buy a ps3. ps3 market share won't match ps2's but it will still dominate the overall market.

(Let's not turn this into a console discussion)

(Let's not turn this into a console discussion)

Can't agree more.

By 2030 I bet everything is downloaded. And by 100, I bet there's a teleportation scheme.

Heck, by 2040 or so we'll be into the technological singularity area where it'll be impossible to predict.

I think by 2025 or so, downloads will be the dominating scheme. For the next 15 years or so, physical media will have the advantage. IMO.

Well here is what the experts in the field of downloads are saying about the industry and timeframes:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6452274.html

Some VERY interesting predictions linked here. Basically now predicting the demise of HD-DVD. "Blockbuster's decision to favor Blu-ray is the beginning of the end."


http://www.tvpredictions.com/bluhddvd061807.htm

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.

But what about pip ? Oh nooooos :eek:


I think by 2025 or so, downloads will be the dominating scheme. For the next 15 years or so, physical media will have the advantage. IMO.

When it is common for every household to have the fastest connection at the time, maybe 50 mbps pipes and hundreds of terabytes of storage is also cheap and common, then perhaps yes. But still I wouldn't want to be some of those people that lose their entire movie collection because of corrupt hard drives !!!

Actual Blockbuster Press release link below;

http://www.b2i.us/profiles/investor/ResLibraryView.asp?BzID=553&ResLibraryID=20345&Category=1027
Please do a service to other members next time and actually look through the thread as this PR release has been poted several times already in this thread thanks.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=862638&page=10&pp=30

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10812714&&#post10812714

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=862638&page=11&pp=30

When it is common for every household to have the fastest connection at the time, maybe 50 mbps pipes and hundreds of terabytes of storage is also cheap and common, then perhaps yes. But still I wouldn't want to be some of those people that lose their entire movie collection because of corrupt hard drives !!!

I'm very dubious of downloading indeed. Maybe if you can download 50 gigs in a few hours and burn it to some *ALWAYS PLAYABLE* owned disc for a good price, ok.

Then again, in a few years BD media will be near free anyway. $5 bin stuff.

LOL@ the "used to use" comment. :) All this is just fun to watch and be a part of regardless of what happens. Both you and I are just average citizens who have a preference over one format over the other even though we may have a million other things in common.. I wouldn't be surprised If we know each other by face and have met at Don Carter's before it got destroyed or played in the same bowling league there..lol... Heh! :) My girlfirend and I nearly missed a tournament due to being "unexpectedly detained" in the parking lot at Don Carter's, but we were rudely interrupted by a "flashlight patrolman" :D

I am glad I joined this forum when I did and have learned a lot about a variety of things that have to do with audio and video.. It is fun reading the comments from everyone and the usual plazman pro-HD-DVD comments that spin the issue to HD-DVD 's favor every time no matter what happens.. :)Yes, I've loved this forum also, and joined before the formats launched. But, in my view, I think the main point in this thread is that HD DVD is doing very well in the big picture, and this BB decision was very premature. I think it looks very much like the decision was unduly affected by commercial incentives, and thus is not as meaningful as it would otherwise appear.

This just made the news on TV in Chicago....
Reporting Blockbuster only supporting BD cause it has 70% of the market.

This is going to push alot of normal folks to go BD.

Nope, because you didn't pay close enough attention to what I said.

I did not make a blanket statement about knowing what the future holds. In some cases, it is possible to know what the future holds.

I specifically said:

What is the difference? You are making a future prediction as fact on the Download vs. Optical war, which doesn't even exist yet, but others can't make future predictions as fact on the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war which is happening as we speak? It seems to me that a prediction made about that HD war would be much more valid as the data is real versus something that hasn't even begun.

This just made the news on TV in Chicago....
Reporting Blockbuster only supporting BD cause it has 70% of the market.

This is going to push alot of normal folks to go BD.

If Universal had any political/business sense, they'd announce neutrality today.

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.

I will never buy one of those first gen Blu-Ray players, even for $100. . However the PS3 is a first gen player in my opinion and is better than anything HD-DVD offers (besides the $1000 PC drives found in high-end PC's) , Even the fast HD-DVD add-on drive for the 360 is not as fast a player as the PS3 when it comes to load time and being able to skip chapters. It becomes clear when playing Liar's Dice on the POTC DMC disc that you really need a fast computer chip to handle the java based menu's and games while at the same time being able to stream 1080p HD. However when it comes to playing movie's, those first gen players do work and should not be discounted as players themselves. If it weren't for the PS3, I would not have gottn into Blu-Ray this early..It is that simple...However the lack of HD-DVD titles after Christmas really would have probably been enough to get me over the edge in that case if the Ps3 did not exist and I had not gotten it earlier..

Again, these players will never be obsolete. They will always play Blu-ray movies.
They will indeed be obsolete, as they will never be able to play all the content of the future discs - which will have PiP and 1.1 content on them.

Plazman, what does this post of yours have to do with supporting RD's position that HD DVD 'continues to gain ground' on content sales? You're trying to give an answer to a question I never asked. In fact, let's just agree that it has stabilized, and that contrary to your intent to aid RD in his position, you nevertheless concede implicitly that indeed, there is little headway being made by HD DVD media sales at the moment.

Ah! Your problem is much more basic :o

1. You understand the concept of market share? It basically says of the total HD market what % is controlled by BD v. HD DVD. Simple right?

2. Now when looking at market share, you can look at historical data such as SI or current data (what is happening right now and if there is a trend). Business decisions are based on current and future market share. History is history. It is irrelevant to the decision making process. Now, why is that?

3. It's because when a studio sells a product what they want to know is what is their potential market size for this product and the size of the market size they are missing (what am I leaving on the table). So, you can see that market share quickly translates into how much $ can I make and how much $ I could make...

4. In Q1 we had a trend where week after week BD's market share continued to increase v. HD DVD which continued to fall. The question at this point was to find out at what % we would end up with an equilibrium. For example, Mac ended up with a 5% or so market share and they have kept that share since them. So, 5% would be their equilibrium share in the PC OS market.

5. At the end of Q1 it was widely reported that BD was enjoying a 4:1 to 2:1 sales ratio advantage. However, since then we have seen a turnaround. We now have a sales ratio that is between 1.5 and 2.0:1. The only week where the ratio went byond 2:1 there were extraordinary circumstances as explained by me. So, the fact is that HD DVD has gained on BD since we went from 4:1 to 2:1 sales ratio to 1.5 to 2:1. And finally...

6. So far we have only talked about one part of the equation, how much money can I make by supporting one format. The second part is, how much money am I leaving on the table. For this, the only true data point is sales of the same title on both formats. So, if we look at Warner and Paramount we can figure out what the ratio in terms of $ terms is for a title that gets released on both formats. For this we know that all neutral titles sold since the end of March have sold about the same for both formats. So, studios by being exclusive are leaving 40-50% of the HD revenue on the table. Does this make sense?

7. As long as the $$ value is small, studios won't care, but once it gets large, they cannot ignore it...

Now what about Blockbuster?

Doesn't it seem odd that Blockbuster would leave between 30-40% of the HD market on the table - basically lose these customers to their competitors. When Blockbuster desperately needs to do better and gain customers?

The question is not whether BD is ahead of HD DVD or whatever, it's whether it makes sense for Blockbuster to take sides? To me Blockbuster reeks of poor management decisions and if a reason is needed for why they are struggling - it is right there!

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

The same Microsoft who publicly said "HD-DVD is an unproven technology - we don't want to sell you the next beta" just a few months ago when asked if they would build a drive into a revised 360?

Or the same Microsoft who 6 months ago said "we could offer a Blu-ray add-on for the 360 if the market demanded it", even if they retracted that?

The same MSFT that's about to make Sony's worst nightmares come true :)

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix. :)

Done & Done :D

This announcement is for 1,700 stores. How many of Blockbusters 5,800 stores are independent franchise locations and what will they do?

They will indeed be obsolete, as they will never be able to play all the content of the future discs - which will have PiP and 1.1 content on them.

Your point? The main purpose for this medium is to deliver high definition movies to the home - which these players will always be able to do. Extras are just that, extras.

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

You mean no more xbox add on drive? I believe they only sell the PS3 and xbox drive for now....

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

Any date for that announcement?

The same Microsoft who publicly said "HD-DVD is an unproven technology - we don't want to sell you the next beta" just a few months ago when asked if they would build a drive into a revised 360?

Or the same Microsoft who 6 months ago said "we could offer a Blu-ray add-on for the 360 if the market demanded it", even if they retracted that?

Microsofts biggest mistake was not including an HD-DVD drive in the 360 when they had the chance.. Look at Halo 3 now, it will be on two discs and all future titles that want to look as good will also span multiple discs.. Microsoft see's how the PS3 has affected this format war. They should have looked at History and how the PS2 made an impact on SD-DVD early adoption...It is clear that HD-DVD would not be in this position they are in had the HD-DVD drive been included in the original X-Box 360. And they would have over a two year lead to market vs Sony... The format war at that time could have been over before it begun for SOny...Especially considering how terrible their initial launch titles were. House of Flying daggers and The Fifth Element..YUCK, they would have been ridiculed out of the gate in a much stronger fashion had the adoption rate for HD-DVD been much stronger than it was due to HD-DVD being included in the 360...

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

OMG YES!!!!!!!!!!

Microsofts biggest mistake was not including an HD-DVD drive in the 360 when they had the chance.. Look at Halo 3 now, it will be on two discs and all future titles that want to look as good will also span multiple discs.. Microsoft see's how the PS3 has affected this format war. They should have looked at History and how the PS2 made an impact on SD-DVD early adoption...It is clear that HD-DVD would not be in this position they are in had the HD-DVD drive been included in the original X-Box 360. And they would have over a two year lead to market vs Sony... The format war at that time could have been over before it begun for SOny...

They blew it on hddvd and hdmi.

Really bad on both on their launches. They should've done what it takes, but oh well.

...

You've got to be kidding me. If you can't see for yourself why shelf-space and inventory dedication to HD DVD in an additional ~1500 B&M stores at the relative rental rates enjoyed vis a vis Blu-ray would be a financial boondoggle, then time to go back to business school Plaz. Yes, it is time to make sound financial decisions over at Blockbuster - and as far as next-gen formats went, that has taken the form of not doubling up on inventory and shelf-space in order to keep the higher margin product; this allows a foothold on the HD market while at the same time not stealing valuable space away from bread-winner SD DVD.

I'm very dubious of downloading indeed. Maybe if you can download 50 gigs in a few hours and burn it to some *ALWAYS PLAYABLE* owned disc for a good price, ok.

Then again, in a few years BD media will be near free anyway. $5 bin stuff.

The thing is routers are super common in households.
We got dad watching a movie over the internet, little billy playing starcraft upstairs, we got little jessica surfing myspace and having all sorts of streaming videos pop-up etc... Plus, this implies that most people will have computers powerful enough to play full HD content with lossless audio from their computers. You know people mess up their computers somehow, this is always going to be a problem.

Back on topic. Lets all go to blockbuster and rent some blu-ray movies !!!
My blockbuster just got in about 5 new blu-rays this past week :D

You've got to be kidding me. If you can't see for yourself why shelf-space and inventory dedication to HD DVD in an additional ~1500 B&M stores at the relative rental rates enjoyed vis a vis Blu-ray would be a financial boondoggle, then time to go back to business school Plaz. Yes, it is time to make sound financial decisions over at Blockbuster - and as far as next-gen formats went, that has taken the form of not doubling up on inventory and shelf-space to keep the higher margin product.

If you followed plazman's logic, they'd still stock Hi-8 and Beta tapes and LD's as well.

They blew it on hddvd and hdmi.

Really bad on both on their launches. They should've done what it takes, but oh well.


And now a confirmation from Paidgeek that Target will go Blu-Ray exclusive...OMG the Domino effect is occuring quickly...

Your point? The main purpose for this medium is to deliver high definition movies to the home - which these players will always be able to do. Extras are just that, extras.

Keep in mind that it's the lack of space for these same "extras" that resulted in non stop HD DVD bashing by the very same format fanbois that are now filling up this thread.

So lets just say what goes around comes around when it comes to whether a format delivers on all of the hype.

In any event, do we have confirmation on this Target going BD exclusive thing or is it just a total fabricated rumor?

<-- Still amazed retailers are "calling it" on this when there are such small sales numbers over the past year.

glad I"m on netflix :)

Microsofts biggest mistake was not including an HD-DVD drive in the 360 when they had the chance.. Look at Halo 3 now, it will be on two discs and all future titles that want to look as good will also span multiple discs.. Microsoft see's how the PS3 has affected this format war. They should have looked at History and how the PS2 made an impact on SD-DVD early adoption...It is clear that HD-DVD would not be in this position they are in had the HD-DVD drive been included in the original X-Box 360. And they would have over a two year lead to market vs Sony... The format war at that time could have been over before it begun for SOny...Especially considering how terrible their initial launch titles were. House of Flying daggers and The Fifth Element..YUCK, they would have been ridiculed out of the gate in a much stronger fashion had the adoption rate for HD-DVD been much stronger than it was due to HD-DVD being included in the 360...

By not including an HD DVD drive, MS was able to beat the PS3 to market by about a year and under cut them in price by about $100. Consequently, it's outselling the PS3 by a fair margin.

Ken from universal sitting at the table with the stock holders, discussing the bluray blockbuster announchment.

http://www.ropeofsilicon.com/Images/hddvd/l/liarliar.jpg

:)

If you followed plazman's logic, they'd still stock Hi-8 and Beta tapes and LD's as well.

I don't know about the rental market for these products. But Blockbuster still carries VHS. A market that is rapidly shrinking...

You do not get out of a growing market, or one where one format has 40% share and the other 60%.....unlike Disney and Fox who care about DRM, Blockbuster has no horse in the race.

Nope, not good enough. I don't see the fat lady going on stage.

Until Rolling Stone Magazine says its over, the fat lady is still at home going through her piggy bank hunting for loose coins to pay for bus-fare to the opera house.

By not including an HD DVD drive, MS was able to beat the PS3 to market by about a year and under cut them in price by about $100. Consequently, it's outselling the PS3 by a fair margin.

Won the battle, but gonna probably lose the war.

I don't know about the rental market for these products. But Blockbuster still carries VHS. A market that is rapidly shrinking...

You do not get out of a growing market, or one where one format has 40% share and the other 60%.....unlike Disney and Fox who care about DRM, Blockbuster has no horse in the race.

They have a horse in the race now.. :cool:

But Blockbuster still carries VHS.

Well, none of the ones near me.

If you followed plazman's logic, they'd still stock Hi-8 and Beta tapes and LD's as well.
Yet we still have macs and PC's, ipods and mp3 players, widescreen and fullscreen DVD's, (heck, BB still sells umd's). Imagine the burden these poor B&M stores are under stocking different formats.

They have a horse in the race now.. :cool:

No they don't. They gain zero competitive advantage over any of their rivals by doing this. They gain nothing whether BD wins or loses for them....A car rental company does not care whether Ford or GM sells more cars. They just rent cars.....same story here.

If true, that is impressive. People that want this format war to drag on are asking for HD to never replace SD in the home buying market.

Frankly, I'll be pissed if all you can buy is SD DVD movies when I can watch junk on HBO HD at such a better resolution.

At this point, the hddvd supporters are getting close to be traitors when it comes to the home HD market. I'm not sure why they do it.. $? emotional investment? Stubborness?

An emotional investment for some I would imagine. If this COUP D'ETAT continues, it would appear that those still fighting on the HD-DVD side will look like they are fighting against massive High Def adoption.. Some people who have HDDVD branded in their names and have their sig's filled with HD-DVD fanboy links will without a doubt continue the fight. However at this point it is still early for this format war and it is not over even though this is as close as it has ever gotten so far... BY Christmas if this Domino effect continues, we shall have a clear winner since all that shopping at Blu-Ray only retailers will have a massive impact against HD-DVD adoption..

Won the battle, but gonna probably lose the war.

If what you are interested in primarily is the next gen DVD, then yes. But if you're interested in the next gen gaming system, then it was smart to keep the HD DVD drive out.

Sony and MS had different priorities, and that's why both did the right thing for their companies.

By not including an HD DVD drive, MS was able to beat the PS3 to market by about a year and under cut them in price by about $100. Consequently, it's outselling the PS3 by a fair margin.

Yes, it helped the 360 as a gaming machine, I agree.. However it hurt them in the long run with adopting HD-DVD as SD-DVD's successor...

You must be kidding. These are two entirely different issues.

Optical media is on it's last legs, but which one wins the war, if anyone, remains to be seen.

HD downloads, on the other hand, are inevitable.

Wow Ken. Different issues? No, different subjects. The issue was what you said was improper: stating opinion as fact. Seems it is ok for you to state opinion as fact, but not others....unless it is to agree with you on HD downloads.

No they don't. They gain zero competitive advantage over any of their rivals by doing this. They gain nothing whether BD wins or loses for them....A car rental company does not care whether Ford or GM sells more cars. They just rent cars.....same story here.

That's probably the worst analogy you could have used, because they usually rent only one maker of car (and have favorable purchase agreements in place to boot).

I don't know about the rental market for these products. But Blockbuster still carries VHS. A market that is rapidly shrinking...

You do not get out of a growing market, or one where one format has 40% share and the other 60%.....unlike Disney and Fox who care about DRM, Blockbuster has no horse in the race.

It is not 60/40 it is 66/34 so rounding Up instead of rounding down:

70/30

Just keeping you honest Plaz ;)

And as far as VHS - from Wiki:

Although VHS is slowly disappearing, this dilemma does bring along with it opportunities, such as media conversion services, dual-deck and DVD/VCR combination systems, and even a lucrative re-sell market on auction and second-hand equipment sites. Consumers still retain the technology as well. The Washington Post has noted that as of 2005, 94.5 million Americans still owned VHS format VCRs.

Until Rolling Stone Magazine says its over, ....
Who the hell cares what Rolling Stone has to say? :confused:

If what you are interested in primarily is the next gen DVD, then yes. But if you're interested in the next gen gaming system, then it was smart to keep the HD DVD drive out.

Sony and MS had different priorities, and that's why both did the right thing for their companies.

If Halo 3 or GTA4 needs 2 DVD's, people will appreciate the BD in PS3.

Blockbuster is just the start of the chain reaction...

Originally Posted by paidgeek
I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

Looks like you may be on to something here Jack! ;)

That's probably the worst analogy you could have used, because they usually rent only one maker of car (and have favorable purchase agreements in place to boot).

I'm amazed myself. If one took gasoline, and the other biodiesel only..

An emotional investment for some I would imagine. If this COUP D'ETAT continues, it would appear that those still fighting on the HD-DVD side will look like they are fighting against massive High Def adoption.. Some people who have HDDVD branded in their names and have their sig's filled with HD-DVD fanboy links will without a doubt continue the fight. However at this point it is still early for this format war and it is not over even though this is as close as it has ever gotten so far... BY Christmas if this Domino effect continues, we shall have a clear winner since all that shopping at Blu-Ray only retailers will have a massive impact against HD-DVD adoption..

Correct, and some stores, especially best buy have shown some bias.
For instance, in my best buy in midtown atlanta, they not only have 1, but 2 blu-ray displays. Also the magnolia store has blu-ray players attached to HDTVs.
There is no hddvd display and the closest thing i found was the A2 and the A20 stacked on top of one another beside some other dvd players lol.

Frys also has some blu bias but they at least have an hddvd display even though the hddvd software is lacking at their store.

If true, that is impressive. People that want this format war to drag on are asking for HD to never replace SD in the home buying market.

Frankly, I'll be pissed if all you can buy is SD DVD movies when I can watch junk on HBO HD at such a better resolution.

At this point, the hddvd supporters are getting close to be traitors when it comes to the home HD market. I'm not sure why they do it.. $? emotional investment? Stubborness?

Wow traitors? Did you just actually say that? These are electronic toys folks, calm down.

You sir owe everyone that has HDDVD an appology. Name calling is never acceptable.

Wow traitors? Did you just actually say that? These are electronic toys folks, calm down.

You sir owe everyone that has HDDVD an appology. Name calling is never acceptable.

Well, I have the xbox addon.

At this point though, hanging onto hddvd is really hurting the entire HD cause.

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

WOW! The HD-DVD foundation just keep crumbling. I just see no way for HD-DVD to first stop this Blu-ray momentum and then re-gain any lead they once had. At best HD-DVD will remain a niche product whereas I see Blu-ray really starting to dig its heels in and start to make a run at DVD.

I can not wait for the "big" annoucement from the BDA on Wednesday. I am hoping for Spider-Man or Kill Bill.

~Josh

at DVD.

I can not wait for the "big" annoucement from the BDA on Wednesday. I am hoping for Spider-Man or Kill Bill.

Both would be very good.. And smart at this point.

I have been reading about both formats for quite some time now in order to try to figure out which to buy. I had finally decided that I was going to pick up an add-on for my 360, until I read the BB announcement today. My thoughts were that the pricepoint of the players gave HD an edge, and I was willing to take a chance on the relatively inexpensive addon.

In my opinion this gives BR an edge in the format war. However I'm not willing to spend that much money for a BR player, so I'm back to waiting to see how things play out.

This whole format thing is frustating and annoying, so I'm not going to think about it anymore until I get my home theatre done, which will probably take me several years at the rate I'm going!

Shane

If Halo 3 or GTA4 needs 2 DVD's, people will appreciate the BD in PS3.

Sure, and if BD was free and didn't delay the console by a year, it would have been a no brainer. But since neither of those things are true, it only made since to add a next-gen drive if you are willing to sacrifice some console sales - which MS wasn't willing to do.

I still rent from Blockbuster, like all the time. So this is good news. Hopefully, this will mean a larger selection for Blu Ray discs.

I still hate renting online because the turn around is still a bit of a pain. I have a monthly pass from Blockbuster, and I like driving there and returning and renting as much as I want easily, without waiting (but it does suck when all the good Blu Ray titles are out)

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...
I like Target, they’re right next to my local Blockbuster store.
Makes things convenient. :)

Google can help you - it's pretty common knowledge.

360 sold 600,000 units in it's first six weeks.
PS3 sold 1M, surpassing the 360 and even the PS2.

But that's only because the 360 was supply constrained, while the PS3 delayed a year and builty up an inventory to sell. MS sold every 360 they could make until around May.

I like Target, they’re right next to my local Blockbuster store.
Makes things convenient. :)

:) Maybe the store next to them will also go blu-ray exclusive :D

But that's only because the 360 was supply constrained, while the PS3 delayed a year and builty up an inventory to sell. MS sold every 360 they could make until around May.

Eh what, and you think the PS3 wasn't hard to get too?

If Halo 3 or GTA4 needs 2 DVD's, people will appreciate the BD in PS3.

you think so? final fantasy 7 had 3 cd's and metal gear solid had 2 cds.....i dont think it ruined anyones experience with those games.

It is not 60/40 it is 66/34 so rounding Up instead of rounding down:

70/30

Just keeping you honest Plaz ;)

And as far as VHS - from Wiki:

Although VHS is slowly disappearing, this dilemma does bring along with it opportunities, such as media conversion services, dual-deck and DVD/VCR combination systems, and even a lucrative re-sell market on auction and second-hand equipment sites. Consumers still retain the technology as well. The Washington Post has noted that as of 2005, 94.5 million Americans still owned VHS format VCRs.

60:40 is SI. However, I did say that the current ratio is 1.5-2.0:1 in favor of BD.

As for VHS, the context of my point is that it is a format in decline and I am not sure what % of business it did v. DVD, but I's guess a lot less than 30% - yet Blockbuster did not say 'we are going DVD exclusive....' AFAIK.

Eh what, and you think the PS3 wasn't hard to get too?
Obviously 1M of them were available for sell, when they weren't available on the 360. IOW, both systems were supply constrained, not demand constrained for at least the first 2 months. The only reason the PS3 sold more was because it had more supply (by virtue of delay launch for a year.)

If BD wins so be it, I have both, as I hedged my bets.

But, I also want BD ONLY folk to answer thesse questions, and be honest!

1. Come clean about Universal, if and when they go neutral, admit your going to buy a ton of movies from them right?. Your just bashing them now, because they support the other guy. Stop the "Universal has nothing I want" BS, its a lie, and I can understand because of the war. Time to come clean :D

2. Does it not bother you one bit that Sony has its pulse on every aspect of the process? Making the movie? Distribution,etc. etc.? Sony does have that "evil empire" feel to them. Oh and before you say it, dont start with the "But MS is evil to" Does not make it any better.

3. Whats do you think the strategy will be now should HDDVD give up the ghost? No more price drops? In other words, whats next?

Also, beware the spectre of VOD and downloads, ignore it at your peril.

you think so? final fantasy 7 had 3 cd's and metal gear solid had 2 cds.....i dont think it ruined anyones experience with those games.

Yes, I think people will appreciate the one with 1 disc.

But that's only because the 360 was supply constrained, while the PS3 delayed a year and builty up an inventory to sell. MS sold every 360 they could make until around May.

Well, he didn't say why the PS3 sold more, just that it did ;)

360 had major supply issues, anyone remember that they couldn't fill a large number of the pre-orders?

There were people that pre-ordered and didn't get their console till March.



To keep it on topic, I thought it was funny that BB carried PS3 games and didn't carry BD movies, due to the fact that every person who rents PS3 games is a potential BD customer.

Now I just hope one of my local stores is part of the 1700 that get blu-ray.

What is the difference? You are making a future prediction as fact on the Download vs. Optical war, which doesn't even exist yet, but others can't make future predictions as fact on the Blu-ray vs. HD DVD war which is happening as we speak? It seems to me that a prediction made about that HD war would be much more valid as the data is real versus something that hasn't even begun.The difference?

The difference is this:
Optical media is mechanical. It require movement to function. This concept is on the way out.

Other methods of HD acquisition and storage, including downloads and non-mechanical storage are the future. End of story.

I'm surprised so many don't get this.

That's probably the worst analogy you could have used, because they usually rent only one maker of car (and have favorable purchase agreements in place to boot).

I have rented Subarus, Ford (most often) and even Toyotas from Hertz. FWIW.

Well, I have the xbox addon.

At this point though, hanging onto hddvd is really hurting the entire HD cause.

Thats not what I am talking about, dont dodge the issue. Calling people traitors is silly, and you know it. Acknowledge the mistake, appologize, lets move on.

If BD wins so be it, I have both, as I hedged my bets.

But, I also want BD ONLY folk to answer thesse questions, and be honest!

1. Come clean about Universal, if and when they go neutral, admit your going to buy a ton of movies from them right?. Your just bashing them now, because they support the other guy. Stop the "Universal has nothing I want" BS, its a lie, and I can understand because of the war. Time to come clean :D

2. Does it not bother you one bit that Sony has its pulse on every aspect of the process? Making the movie? Distribution,etc. etc.? Sony does have that "evil empire" feel to them. Oh and before you say it, dont start with the "But MS is evil to" Does not make it any better.

3. Whats do you think the strategy will be now should HDDVD give up the ghost? No more price drops? In other words, whats next?

Also, beware the spectre of VOD and downloads, ignore it at your peril.

1: Gimme Jurassic Park!

2: BDA is not just Sony. Even if so, I'm not phobic of Sony.

3: More price drops to compete with SD DVD and establish HD as the future medium.

I would not be surprised that Sony & the Blu-Ray camp paid Blockbuster some ridiculous amount of money to stock only blu-ray discs and not HD-DVD.

Thats not what I am talking about, dont dodge the issue. Calling people traitors is silly, and you know it. Acknowledge the mistake, appologize, lets move on.

It was not a mistake. Anyone that's for jeopardizing this format war to be lost to HD is a 'traitor to HD'.

If true, that is impressive. People that want this format war to drag on are asking for HD to never replace SD in the home buying market.

Frankly, I'll be pissed if all you can buy is SD DVD movies when I can watch junk on HBO HD at such a better resolution.

At this point, the hddvd supporters are getting close to be traitors when it comes to the home HD market. I'm not sure why they do it.. $? emotional investment? Stubborness?

You owe HD supporters an apology. We just get an announcement about one retailer (admittedly a large one) and if HD fans don't "throw in the towel" we are traitors?

What nerve!! :mad:

I would not be surprised that Sony & the Blu-Ray camp paid Blockbuster some ridiculous amount of money to stock only blu-ray discs and not HD-DVD.

Apparently they aren't getting what they paid for. RTFA?

Blockbuster will continue to stock HD DVD in 250 stores, and they will continue to offer them through Blockbuster Total Access.

You owe HD supporters an apology. We just get an announcement about one retailer (admittedly a large one) and if HD fans don't "throw in the towel" we are traitors?

What nerve!! :mad:

What can I say? Just go with BD. It's not that hard, and you don't support a format war that will only end with both losing or hddvd losing.

What we need now are classy BD folk. Can we be adults?

Getting a little tired of the NEENER NEENER, let the cascade begin, the end is near, blah blah blah. If you want HDDVD only folk to convert, thats not the way to do it. Snide comments from the Krinkles, Beatboys, and others are not gonna help.

I still debate this. The 360 has a year head start on the PS3 and is outselling it 10M to 3.5M world wide right now.

So, the 360 has 19 months sale time, the PS3 has 7.

All things being equal, the 360 should be outselling the PS3 2.71x right now. It's currently closer to 2.85 AND the 360 has a ton of AAA titles (Gears, Forza 2, Halo Beta, etc).

I know MS has sold more units but if I had to bet on one of them I'd bet on the PS3... it's in better relative shape.

Saying all of that you'd bet on the PS3? :confused:

Seems that you meant that it is the Xbox 360 that should be bet on.

Xbox 360 sales are very, very healthy and as you indicated there are some absolute top notch titles for it.... AND there's a rumored $100 price cut coming for the 360 very soon.

By comparison the PS3 is seeing a downward sales spiral...

Yes, I think people will appreciate the one with 1 disc.

its more convenient ya, but i think people are making the multi disk issue bigger than it is for video games

I still debate this. The 360 has a year head start on the PS3 and is outselling it 10M to 3.5M world wide right now.

So, the 360 has 19 months sale time, the PS3 has 7.

All things being equal, the 360 should be outselling the PS3 2.71x right now. It's currently closer to 2.85 AND the 360 has a ton of AAA titles (Gears, Forza 2, Halo Beta, etc).

I know MS has sold more units but if I had to bet on one of them I'd bet on the PS3... it's in better relative shape.

It's hard to say that the PS3 is in better relative shape when it sold worse last month than any other month of it's, or the 360's life.

But once again, you can't average them out like that because the PS3 had a million units available for launch because they launched late. That artificially effects their average sales per month relative to the 360.

its more convenient ya, but i think people are making the multi disk issue bigger than it is for video games

All I said is that it would make people appreciate BD with the higher capacity. Duh......... Nothing else on that subject at all was said by me.

What can I say? Just go with BD. It's not that hard, and you don't support a format war that will only end with both losing or hddvd losing.

Kind of like BD fans should have just "gone with HD" when the original craptacular BD releases came out and the Samsung player turned out to be a P.O.S.?

Why don't you look in the mirror when you say those things and you'll gain some understanding about how insulting they are to people who have invested hundreds or thousands in a format.

It was not a mistake. Anyone that's for jeopardizing this format war to be lost to HD is a 'traitor to HD'.

Wow, your actually trying to justify your comments.

I want everyone to witness this rubbish, and remember it good.

If you pick HDDVD, your now a TRAITOR to HD.

I bought a Toyota, I guess I hate America! :rolleyes:

Guys... the console discussion... why? Can any single thread please avoid this fate?

What we need now are classy BD folk. Can we be adults?

Getting a little tired of the NEENER NEENER, let the cascade begin, the end is near, blah blah blah. If you want HDDVD only folk to convert, thats not the way to do it. Snide comments from the Krinkles, Beatboys, and others are not gonna help.
Ain't that the truth!

What we need now are classy BD folk. Can we be adults?

Getting a little tired of the NEENER NEENER, let the cascade begin, the end is near, blah blah blah. If you want HDDVD only folk to convert, thats not the way to do it. Snide comments from the Krinkles, Beatboys, and others are not gonna help.
I'm not a soldier in this "war", but I can't help but wonder why people would hold onto one format when it's clearly a sinking ship right now. There are significant financial losses involved for people who bought a bunch of HD-DVDs if the format dies. Why wouldn't they want to stop buying them if they see the format going away in the future?


I Just don't get this whole format war thing. Why do people choose sides and stick by them so hard? Isn't it your money that loses out in the end? Who cares which format wins, it's all about everyone having high def movies in the end, and both formats seem capable of providing that. It just seems like Bluray will be the chosen final format in the end.

Kind of like BD fans should have just "gone with HD" when the original craptacular BD releases came out and the Samsung player turned out to be a P.O.S.?

Why don't you look in the mirror when you say those things and you'll gain some understanding about how insulting they are to people who have invested hundreds or thousands in a format.

Yes, if we had all gone to hddvd, that would've ended it. And the studios, and the massive CE support BD had.

I can't possibly disagree with that. After things sided with hddvd in that world, I'd have called the BD supporters as supporting stagnating HD in general.

60:40 is SI. However, I did say that the current ratio is 1.5-2.0:1 in favor of BD.

As for VHS, the context of my point is that it is a format in decline and I am not sure what % of business it did v. DVD, but I's guess a lot less than 30% - yet Blockbuster did not say 'we are going DVD exclusive....' AFAIK.


Blockbuster didn't have to say they were going SD=DVD exclusive since there really wasn't a battle against VHS. It was common knowledge to everyone that SD-DVD would replace VHS since it was a much cheaper solution compared to LaserDisc for similar quality...

It's hard to say that the PS3 is in better relative shape when it sold worse last month than any other month of it's, or the 360's life.

But once again, you can't average them out like that because the PS3 had a million units available for launch because they launched late. That artificially effects their average sales per month relative to the 360.

Having units available for customers to purchase doesn't artificially effect sales.

It DIRECTLY effects actual sales.

It was not a mistake. Anyone that's for jeopardizing this format war to be lost to HD is a 'traitor to HD'.

So just what are you asking us to do? Go throw our HD DVD players in the trash? Stop buying movies for it? How we may we prove to the Mcarthy Committe that we aren't traitors?

All I said is that it would make people appreciate BD with the higher capacity. Duh......... Nothing else on that subject at all was said by me.

and i responded and said for most people who play video games its not a big deal....see the way that works?

besides, most ps3 owners would appreciate BD more there were some games actually on it.

Having units available for customers to purchase doesn't artificially effect sales.

It DIRECTLY effects actual sales.
No, but it does artificially effect sales averages, which was the point being made if you follow the sub-thread.

So just what are you asking us to do? Go throw our HD DVD players in the trash? Stop buying movies for it? How we may we prove to the Mcarthy Committe that we aren't traitors?

Do whatever you want. I'd start by buying a BD player and supporting the HD format that's got the future and reducing hddvd support.

I just rented Alpha Dog on hddvd.. So I guess I'm a 'traitor' too in a sense. However, I rent/buy 10 to 1 BD. Nothing that drastic, I think we just need to unite behind BD against SD.

Oh, one thing that you will not find in the piece is that when Rich Peterson visited SPE in CALIFORNIA........... is that his wife accompanied him, who in fact was a delight to meet.
I won't "drop" her name.
Who are you???? You are obviously well connected.

Does Target really even carry HD or Blu hardware aside from the 360 add-on and the PS3? None of the Targets I frequent have ever sold standalone BD or HD players, including the largest one in the KC area. If they were to choose to end their software neutrality, then THAT would be something.

Guys... the console discussion... why? Can any single thread please avoid this fate?

You're right. I'll stop with the console talk.

No, but it does artificially effect sales averages, which was the point being made if you follow the sub-thread.

That isn't artificial, you could say that it artificially effects perceived demand (like saying higher sales means higher demand). But selling units is selling units, nothing artificial about it.

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

Target currently sells the Tosh A2, A20 and the HD DVD drive. My source says that Target has no intention of going BD hardware exclusive. I guess we'll have to see whose 'reliable' source ends up being more reliable. :D

The difference?

The difference is this:
Optical media is mechanical. It require movement to function. This concept is on the way out.

Other methods of HD acquisition and storage, including downloads and non-mechanical storage are the future. End of story.

I'm surprised so many don't get this.

We optical disc supporters are a simple folk... :rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMgpckykmJU

As I figured, you are indeed classless.

Stop fanning the flames please.

If BD wins so be it, I have both, as I hedged my bets.

But, I also want BD ONLY folk to answer thesse questions, and be honest!

1. Come clean about Universal, if and when they go neutral, admit your going to buy a ton of movies from them right?. Your just bashing them now, because they support the other guy. Stop the "Universal has nothing I want" BS, its a lie, and I can understand because of the war. Time to come clean :D
I'll definitely rent comedy's like "Knocked Up" and I'll buy movies like The Mummy, Gladiator (if its EVER released) and Children of Men. But in all honesty, their are less than 10 movies from Universal that I would want to own.

2. Does it not bother you one bit that Sony has its pulse on every aspect of the process? Making the movie? Distribution,etc. etc.? Sony does have that "evil empire" feel to them. Oh and before you say it, dont start with the "But MS is evil to" Does not make it any better.
It really doesn't bother me, because Blu-Ray is only one passing media distribution technology. I believe greatly in market forces, so whatever the market decides is best.

3. Whats do you think the strategy will be now should HDDVD give up the ghost? No more price drops? In other words, whats next?
The elephant in the room, which few at AVS care to admit exists, is SD-DVD. It has been documented that most people have a difficult time seeing the difference between high-def DVD's vs SD-DVD's on any tv 37" or smaller. People without perfect vision have a tough time at 42" or smaller. The war isn't over, SD-DVD is a far more powerful opponent than HD-DVD.

Also, beware the spectre of VOD and downloads, ignore it at your peril.
Downloads won't be a serious threat for at least eight more years, and even then I wouldn't bet on the computer being the centerpiece of more than 5% of US home entertainment centers.

hd-dvd is done...most of the people I know who had the hd-dvd add-on with hd-dvd movies had traded them in for blu. The mainstream consumer doesn't care how many "old" movies get released on hd-dvd. They want 'new" releases on blu-ray.

We optical disc supporters are a simple folk... :rolleyes:

Well, he's right. People who think that a BD victory is going to "stave off the inevitable" are fooling themselves.

The future of media distribution is going to be done with computers, set-top-boxes and media appliances.

It's not a matter of "if" it's a matter of "when".

People who think they are "beating" MS and putting off downloads forever by backing BD are simply fooling themselves.

Who are you???? You are obviously well connected.

Or someone who scans the internet for 'insider-like' info ;)

Target currently sells the Tosh A2, A20 and the HD DVD drive. My source says that Target has no intention of going BD hardware exclusive. I guess we'll have to see whose 'reliable' source ends up being more reliable. :D


All in all if Target does go hardware exclusive, then they will simply sell their remainig HD-DVD players at a discount and have a bargain bin for the remaining HD-DVD's... I will be there when they do :)

10 pages since I read this morning.

Here is your chance. Can someone tell me concretely and show me information which states that the PS3 will output LPCM uncompressed the True HD and DTS-HD tracks?

I understand about MA but I'll cross that bridge later on.

I think the BB thing is more psychological than anything. Most early adopters already have a source other than a B&M store.

Now if Sony Music picked up BD as their prefered high end audio format, I'm there :)

Seriously if the PS3 does not dumb down the audio and basically what my A2/D2 does then I'd for sure look into the format.

I have 19 days to return my A2/D2 and Netflix is easy to change over.

Why? As many people will tell you, Blu-ray -is- the PS3 right now. Seems only logical it be part of the discussion.

Except that this thread is about Blockbuster and rentals.

If PS3 is to be a part of the discussion, why is it always in the context of its performance relative to 360 and Wii? As far as the format war is concerned, the PS3's performance vs those other consoles has nothing to do with anything, as neither is a native platform for HD DVD.

Who are you???? You are obviously well connected.

He is someone who knows inside information, but doesn't want to be exposed like Talkstr8t and cjplay were in the past. When you have insiders exposing insiders to prevent them from posting, that is dirty pool and not something I imagine Penton is willing to engage in.

But what about pip ? Oh nooooos :eek:



When it is common for every household to have the fastest connection at the time, maybe 50 mbps pipes and hundreds of terabytes of storage is also cheap and common, then perhaps yes. But still I wouldn't want to be some of those people that lose their entire movie collection because of corrupt hard drives !!!


If you have a 50mbps pipe you don't need to have local storage.

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...Congratulation! It seems the war is going to end soon... :cool:

Eric, ask that on the Blu-ray player board.

This thread is growing at a faster rate than I can read through it!

Anyway, great news for Blu-ray. I suspect this will start a domino effect with consumers and retailers. Would be great to have only one format by the Christmas season.

Hopefully the biggest impact of this BBV announcement will be getting Universal on board with BD. Would love to be in the room this morning as they discuss the implications.

I'm guessing for studios the issue isn't the actual dollar sales to rental places like BBV/Netflix, but the volume it moves. Even with this announcement and assuming 3-5 copies per title, we're looking at 850,000-1,450,000 discs the studios get to move (170 titles x 1,700 stores) in just a couple of weeks. Impressive for a relatively new format. Especially when we know production costs go down with economies of scale. Whatever disk cost advantage HD DVD seemed to have is disappearing quickly.

I'm curious how many more BD50's will be in that mix. Good thing "science fiction" became reality much sooner than some members tried to insinuate.

1: 360 sales aren't that healthy. I know Microsoft is saying things are going well but the 360's sales haven't been much better than the PS3's world wide.

2: Knowing #1, the 360 isn't really beating the PS3 by a huge margin WITH a lot of AAA software. What happens when December rolls around and the PS3 has Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, MGS4, Warhawk, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Home, etc - all exclusive AAA titles?

3: PS3 sales are down this month, but with a drought of new software that's not surprising. The fact that it still sold 77,000 units in the US in May is pretty impressive... there was, what, 1 new game for the PS3 in may? Given that game was Spiderman, I'm impressed.

Ah... so when HD DVD has a slow quarter because of no releases it's the death knell, but when PS3 sales slow down because of no releases it's not a sign of struggling? :rolleyes:

Yes, the PS3 is whooping the X360 in xenophobic Japan where they would never buy an American "anything" (they do like Harleys though from what I hear).

Worldwide though the 360 is at 11M units compared t 3.5M for PS3 and there will be more price cuts to the 360 coming. Currently the 360 is outselling the PS3 at over 2 to 1....

The only thing that is going to allow the PS3 to close that gap is going to be a combination of hot releases for the PS3 and artery spurting price cuts, if consumers had a hard time stomaching X360's $399 price the $599 PS3 is going to make them naseous.

It is a sign in the right direction, hopefully others will follow. First step is done.


Greetz

Wow, this really put a kink in my plans.. Convinced the wife to go to CC and demo BR and HDDVD. She liked both, and actually suggested buying the HDDVD might be ok. (I almost fell over...) She was ok with the 299 price. 499 for BR did not seem tempting to her though... However, this morning I'm reading that Blockbuster is landing squarely in the BluRay camp and that HAS to be really bad news for HDDVD. I've always thought that whoever wins over the rental market wins this war (somewhat similar to porn possibly ended the vhs/beta war, I think rental stores/online rentals will win this one).

I guess I'll sit on the fence a while longer now....

1: 360 sales aren't that healthy. I know Microsoft is saying things are going well but the 360's sales haven't been much better than the PS3's world wide.
I don't know how anyone could make the argument that the PS3 is in better shape than the 360 right now. Any way you shape the numbers, the 360 outselling the PS3 by around 2X isn't a good thing. The PS3 has been under 100,000 units for three straight months and the 360, being on shelves for 19 months now, has more flexibility for a more substantial price drop. In a market when the Wii and DS, the two cheapest hardware options available, are selling like hotcakes, a $599 console is in better shape? Even if they drop the price by $100, a very generous estimation imo, it's still another $200 away from that sweet spot where the PS2 (and now Wii) were really moving units.

2: Knowing #1, the 360 isn't really beating the PS3 by a huge margin WITH a lot of AAA software. What happens when December rolls around and the PS3 has Uncharted, Ratchet and Clank, MGS4, Warhawk, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Home, etc - all exclusive AAA titles?
And what happens when Halo 3 is released? None of the titles you listed have the system selling potential of Halo. Matter of fact, most of what you listed are more enthusiast titles (Uncharted, Lair) and none have the wide-reaching impact of a Halo.

3: PS3 sales are down this month, but with a drought of new software that's not surprising. The fact that it still sold 77,000 units in the US in May is pretty impressive... there was, what, 1 new game for the PS3 in may? Given that game was Spiderman, I'm impressed.
77,000 for a drought of new software is fine, but you brought up another issue...a drought of new software. At this point in the 360's lifespan, they at least had games like Oblivion and Dead Rising (both million unit sellers) released. The PS3 will go from March (MotorStorm) to this holiday season without a single substantial release. And even MotorStorm as a substantial release is debatable...

So how many of you guys who are neutral are starting to think about selling your HD stuff over this news? Honestly, if I had not amassed a decent collection lately, I'd be thinking of eBaying some of mine. At the same time, it seems silly to sell stuff like Batman, Matrix, V, etc just to buy it all over again (with the same transfer and audio) on Blu.

All in all if Target does go hardware exclusive, then they will simply sell their remainig HD-DVD players at a discount and have a bargain bin for the remaining HD-DVD's... I will be there when they do :)

The recent hardware ordering by Target would not indicate that they are going exclusive. That is all I can say. For that matter neither is Best Buy or Circuit City - and I AM surprised that Best Buy would be still ordering more HD DVD players than BD standalones!

There must be more to the Blockbuster story....

At this point though, hanging onto hddvd is really hurting the entire HD cause.Disagree.

The only reason either format is as (pick one, or more) cheap, good, available, etc. as they are, is due to at least some extent, to the competition between them.

As soon as one goes bye-bye, you can bet the advancement of the remaining format will diminish. No competition = no forward movement.

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...

If this is true, it's the nail in the coffin unfortunately. Oh well, time to start buying neutral content in BD.

Disagree.

The only reason either format is as (pick one, or more) cheap, good, available, etc. as they are, is due to at least some extent, to the competition between them.

As soon as one goes bye-bye, you can bet the advancement of the remaining format will diminish. No competition = no forward movement.

I stand by my idea. The war was ok for awhile, but now it's time to go against SD. The price is within striking range now. Sure the war brought it there, but I think if hddvd had folded totally this last Spring we'd still be hitting close to these points.

I really don't see long term benefit in 2 HD formats. The opposite of course, is what it is now.

No, he's just willing to badmouth this forum and its moderators on another forum, and in the end chooses the high road about as much as his MS enemies. BTW, who was it that got cjplay booted again?

Actually on a couple of occasions I caught PM posting as if he were an insider when I could find the exact same stuff on the web....he does name drop a lot, but most of that can be found on the web :)

So, I doubt he is really an insider at all, and hence he does not disclose his affiliation. Kinda plays on the whole mystery insider thing....

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive...Congratulation! It seems the war is going to end soon... :cool:What's the connection between Target and Amazon? I've gotten things from Target.com in Amazon boxes. If Target goes Blu-ray hardware only could Amazon be close behind?

Wow, this really put a kink in my plans.. Convinced the wife to go to CC and demo BR and HDDVD. She liked both, and actually suggested buying the HDDVD might be ok. (I almost fell over...) She was ok with the 299 price. 499 for BR did not seem tempting to her though... However, this morning I'm reading that Blockbuster is landing squarely in the BluRay camp and that HAS to be really bad news for HDDVD. I've always thought that whoever wins over the rental market wins this war (somewhat similar to porn possibly ended the vhs/beta war, I think rental stores/online rentals will win this one).

I guess I'll sit on the fence a while longer now....


Your best bet would be to get a PS3 since it is the best Blu-Ray player in the market and it will not dissapoint. You also have the added benefit it can play music, do picture slideshows, and allow for movie trailer downloads as well as become a mediacenter that can stream off of your PC almost any content. Even if you're not a gamer, the PS3 is the best choice and you will not feel like you spent too much money after you see what it can do and how it does it.. My wife was like yours, reluctant at first. However she now see's the benefit of High def and can't watch a SD-DVD without noticing how bad it looks...

Orignally Posted by Chau808
What's the connection between Target and Amazon?

Amazon handles Target's on line orders.

fitprod

Gentlemen

there is no need to attack other members

remember challenge the [information in the] post; not the poster?

What's the connection between Target and Amazon? I've gotten things from Target.com in Amazon boxes. If Target goes Blu-ray hardware only could Amazon be close behind?

I believe Target contracts Amazon for their services. I doubt this will change Amazon's or Target's online presence of HD DVD.

I think we both know that these are not the same markets and the same arguments don't apply. HD-DVD has some triple A titles - King Kong, Matrix, etc, yet it's still losing market share despite being released 2 months before Blu-ray and 6 months before cost effective Blu-ray players (aka the PS3).

The PS3, on the other hand, has it's launch titles and maybe 1 other game (depending on if you like Oblivion or MotorStorm - I personally love Oblivion) and came out a year late.

A year from now, once the first true round of really good PS3 titles are out if we're in the same shape, I'll agree with you... but now, it's not a fair comparison.

Also, Sony has commented recently that PS3 price cut by Christmas isn't out of the question. So really it's a $499 PS3 versus a $399 360.

What does a $499 PS3 do for Blu-ray?

More than a $599 PS3 did, and that seem to be a lot.

I think "we also both know" that MS is in a much better position to cut prices on the 360 and continue hammering Sony. MS is close to breaking even on X360 hardware, their next die shrink will actually have them making a small profit on the hardware.

MS could cut $100 on the 360 and not even blink. For Sony on the other hand, a $100 price cut this year is only going to result in even bigger losses.

So it's probably going to be $299 "elite" HDMI X360 vs. $499 PS3 this holiday season.

The recent hardware ordering by Target would not indicate that they are going exclusive. That is all I can say. For that matter neither is Best Buy or Circuit City - and I AM surprised that Best Buy would be still ordering more HD DVD players than BD standalones!

There must be more to the Blockbuster story....

And you will lose a lot of credibility if you are wrong on this one ;) As paidgeek moves up the "insider" prediction list.. All kidding aside, you might be right in that Target has ordered HD-DVD players and movie's however they might be for sale online only. I believe the going hardware neutral line was for in-store only and does not mention online as well since the online portion of Target is seperate in all respects including management in comparison...

I don't believe amazon will be next, even though they do have a deal with Target and run their online business. Amazon will sell as long as people are pre-ordering. In this case, Blu-Ray is ahead in all their charts for pre-orders...

And now a confirmation from Paidgeek that Target will go Blu-Ray exclusive...OMG the Domino effect is occuring quickly...
Actually, just another rumour - not confirmation...

No, he's just willing to badmouth this forum and its moderators on another forum....Indeed, and he didn't reply to my Private Messages asking about his comments on the other forum, either.


BTW, who was it that got cjplay booted again? Most of the insiders around here from both sides of the fence could learn a thing or two about professionalism from paidgeek.Indeed.

I think "we also both know" that MS is in a much better position to cut prices on the 360 and continue hammering Sony. MS is close to breaking even on X360 hardware, their next die shrink will actually have them making a small profit on the hardware.

MS could cut $100 on the 360 and not even blink. For Sony on the other hand, a $100 price cut this year is only going to result in even bigger losses.

Well, I see it's a console thread now... since no one seems to really care that these things getting constantly derailed except for myself.

So - jmpage firstly there's nothing to say one way or the other how close or far MS is from profitability on the hardware, and although your claims of a profit margin after the die shrink are something I consider likely, it's a margin that would obviously be wiped out if they slashed $100 off, sending them back into loss territory.

That said, I'm surprised you don't apply the same logic to the PS3. Sony's already made the die shrink to 65nm on Cell, and RSX is likely soon to follow if it hasn't already. Not to mention the most expensive single component - the BD drive - is cheaper now even than it was at launch, and will continue to fall in price quickly relative to other components. PS3 loses money, to be sure, but the actual process of cost reduction will be quicker on PS3 than 360 (to what ultimate end, who knows). That said, I don't expect price drops for either system until later this year, if even that early.

Indeed, and he didn't reply to my Private Messages asking about his comments on the other forum, either.


Indeed.

Indeed Paidgeek has done an excellent job in this forum :)

And you will lose a lot of credibility if you are wrong on this one ;) As paidgeek moves up the "insider" prediction list.. All kidding aside, you might be right in that Target has ordered HD-DVD players and movie's however they might be for sale online only. I believe the going hardware neutral line was for in-store only and does not mention online as well since the online portion of Target is seperate in all respects including management in comparison...

I don't believe amazon will be next, even though they do have a deal with Target and run their online business. Amazon will sell as long as people are pre-ordering. In this case, Blu-Ray is ahead in all their charts for pre-orders...

I can only report on info that I have. I have no 'reliable source' beyond what the data shows at Target ;) . Could they go exclusive? Sure! But there are people making buying decisions TODAY that don't know about this. That's all.

The HD DVD add on will be sold in their stores as well as the PS3. They could add the Sony Player (my guess), but that does not radically change anything. It would be news IF they decided to drop selling the Xbox add on. But there is no indication that they will.

Target, unlike Blockbuster isn't stupid and IF they sell BD hardware exclusively, but continue to sell software from both sides - it would be a very strange decision indeed!

The HD DVD add on will be sold in their stores as well as the PS3. They could add the Sony Player (my guess), but that does not radically change anything. It would be news IF they decided to drop selling the Xbox add on. But there is no indication that they will.

Target, unlike Blockbuster isn't stupid and IF they sell BD hardware exclusively, but continue to sell software from both sides - it would be a very strange decision indeed!

Yeah, not selling the player but keeping the hardware will be a strange decision indeed. I didn't think about the whole X-Box 360 add-on angle, thanks for pointing that out.. :)

I can only report on info that I have. I have no 'reliable source' beyond what the data shows at Target ;) . Could they go exclusive? Sure! But there are people making buying decisions TODAY that don't know about this. That's all.

The HD DVD add on will be sold in their stores as well as the PS3. They could add the Sony Player (my guess), but that does not radically change anything. It would be news IF they decided to drop selling the Xbox add on. But there is no indication that they will.

Target, unlike Blockbuster isn't stupid and IF they sell BD hardware exclusively, but continue to sell software from both sides - it would be a very strange decision indeed!

Netflix Total Revenue for the year 2006: $996.7 million
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html)

Blockbuster Total Revenue for the year 2006: $5.52 billion
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6419949.html)

Total Rental Market Revenue for the year 2006: $7.5 billions
(according to http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm)

So we get:

13.4% for Netflix
73.6% for Blockbuster

Blockbuster seems to be doing something right

(stole this post from a prior page in this mammoth thread)

Well, I see it's a console thread now... since no one seems to really care that these things get constantly derailed except for myself.
I care, but sometimes side issues come into play.

Let's all try to get back on track. For those who don't remember, the topic is Blockbuster & it's decision to only carry Blu-ray. Thanks in advance for your participation at AVS.

So how many of you guys who are neutral are starting to think about selling your HD stuff over this news? Honestly, if I had not amassed a decent collection lately, I'd be thinking of eBaying some of mine. At the same time, it seems silly to sell stuff like Batman, Matrix, V, etc just to buy it all over again (with the same transfer and audio) on Blu.Is there any action at eBay that reflects this news?

I guess it will be long time (with BD player prices so much higher than HD DVD) before I will be able to enter the game. Sucks big time. Was really looking forward to Black Friday...

Is there any action at eBay that reflects this news?

Although I expect some will "panic" and sell off their HD DVD collections and hardware, I expect that the average HD DVD person still won't be able to pony up the $$$ for BD hardware and will just continue with HD DVD for now.

It's disheartening news and will possibly put a damper on new sales but anyone who thinks that the HD DVD Forum isn't going to try to do something to respond is being a bit naive.

Well, I'm not sure what my plan is here as a dual format owner. I don't have a huge investment in titles (24) so I can move over if I have to. I would really prefer to have just one player and I will probably build an HTPC to do that. If I get a combo drive or something, then it really doesn't matter that much.

I can only report on info that I have. I have no 'reliable source' beyond what the data shows at Target ;) . Could they go exclusive? Sure! But there are people making buying decisions TODAY that don't know about this. That's all.

The HD DVD add on will be sold in their stores as well as the PS3. They could add the Sony Player (my guess), but that does not radically change anything. It would be news IF they decided to drop selling the Xbox add on. But there is no indication that they will.

Target, unlike Blockbuster isn't stupid and IF they sell BD hardware exclusively, but continue to sell software from both sides - it would be a very strange decision indeed!

Blockbuster, unlike Target, don't sell hardware.
I'm not sure how this comment relates at all to the current discussion.
The BD/HD section at my local BB, the HD section is easily managing one panel with numerous boxes of the same title in a row. The BD section is chock full At one panel and has no duplicate titles, they're all stacked behind one cover. They are getting a second panel in for Blu-ray shortly, they will not need one for HD for a while.

Blockbuster is smart, they know that the studio support for major blockbusters is a factor and so is the PS3 and hence they're going to cater to what the popular format is, which is Blu-ray and DVD.

If they were to cater to everything then it would make sense to have HD DVD at all these 1,400+ stores as well, but so would adding Laserdisc and UMD movies.

Kudos to Blockbuster for their part in shaping this format war and helping us to have resolution more quickly. The sooner we arrive at one HD format the better. The average scores of the revies clearly show that Blu-ray is the more consistent format at delivering quality picture and audio, why would anyone want anything less?
HDD 159HD/198BD, HTS 159HD/190BD, HTF 43HD/71BD, UD 110HD/104BD, Talk 200HD/222BD
06.01.07
HD DVD PQ SQ TOTAL Blu-ray PQ SQ TOTAL
HighDef 3.97 3.67 3.82 HighDef 3.98 3.85 3.92
HTSpot 4.02 3.87 3.94 HTSpot 4.02 4.25 4.13
DVDTalk 3.69 3.51 3.60 DVDTalk 3.63 3.68 3.66
HTForum 4.15 3.82 3.99 HTForum 4.27 4.09 4.18
UpDisc 4.04 3.86 3.95 UpDisc 4.04 4.15 4.09
Totals 3.92 3.71 3.82 Totals 3.93 3.96 3.94

hd-dvd is done...most of the people I know who had the hd-dvd add-on with hd-dvd movies had traded them in for blu. The mainstream consumer doesn't care how many "old" movies get released on hd-dvd. They want 'new" releases on blu-ray.

Then why did people go gaga over Con Air, Hellboy,etc in the blu forums?

How old is old?

Netflix Total Revenue for the year 2006: $996.7 million
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html)

Blockbuster Total Revenue for the year 2006: $5.52 billion
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6419949.html)

Total Rental Market Revenue for the year 2006: $7.5 billions
(according to http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm)
I think a sizeable chunk of Blockbuster's 5.52 billion is Ice Cream, popcorn, sweets, and other impulse items at their counters.

These would not be part of the 7.5 billion gazillion rental market figure.

I think a sizeable chunk of Blockbuster's 5.52 billion is Ice Cream, popcorn, sweets, and other impulse items at their counters.

These would not be part of the 7.5 billion gazillion rental market figure.

Not likely.

"A sizeable chunk" - I can't believe you think anyone will agree with this.

Yea, it was a smart move on Sony's part. They knew they could not compete on the hardware side in price/features (value index), so they grabbed the software side. Tosh was just too focused on the hardware. War over, consumer pays the price.

Yea, it was a smart move on Sony's part. They knew they could not compete on the hardware side in price/features (value index), so they grabbed the software side. Tosh was just too focused on the hardware. War over, consumer pays the price.

The consumer spoke with their dollar.

More BD rentals at Blockbuster.
More Blu-ray disc sales every week since December 24th, 2006.

The consumer has spoken, it's the jaded HD DVD fans that will be doing the suffering. The public will get to enjoy lossless audio and high bit rate encodes; the consumer wins.

The consumer spoke with their dollar.

More BD rentals at Blockbuster.
More Blu-ray disc sales every week since December 24th, 2006.

The consumer has spoken, it's the jaded HD DVD fans that will be doing the suffering. The public will get to enjoy lossless audio and high bit rate encodes; the consumer wins.

yep.

Actually on a couple of occasions I caught PM posting as if he were an insider when I could find the exact same stuff on the web....he does name drop a lot, but most of that can be found on the web :)

So, I doubt he is really an insider at all, and hence he does not disclose his affiliation. Kinda plays on the whole mystery insider thing....

Exactly!

As a person who was born and rasied in CA(Hollywood area,L.A.), the WHOLE state name drops.

We have about 10 million waitresses that are in the acting biz

Everyone in CA knows a movie star :rolleyes:

Everyone in CA knows a guy that knows a guy :rolleyes:

Most guys say they used to date stars before they were stars.(My personal fav) :D

yep.

Double yep.

Why is this dragging on here..

The consumer spoke with their dollar.

More BD rentals at Blockbuster.
More Blu-ray disc sales every week since December 24th, 2006.

The consumer has spoken, it's the jaded HD DVD fans that will be doing the suffering. The public will get to enjoy lossless audio and high bit rate encodes; the consumer wins.

No, Sony wins.

Don't know if this has been said yet as I didn't read all the pages, but I actually have a Gamefly and Netflix account. So for all of you assuming that the Blockbuster thing is related to the PS3, hardcore gamers don't mess with Blockbuster, just like true movie watchers don't either, even their online selection is week compared to Netflix, just try to rent a little known foreign language film.

Also, the little tween going into Blockbuster to rent PS3 games is not renting HighDef movies. Dad and Mom are strolling through the DVD section looking for SD movies to watch while the kid chills in his room playing games or surfing the net. This is how it worked for me and my friends.

My experience with Blockbuster is they never have anything in that I want, but with the internet I can pretty much get it when I want.

That said, I think the Blockbuster decision is a big blow to HD-DVD. When my dad (only 46), and I am 28, goes to get movies, he goes to Blockbuster. You have to remeber generation gaps and the average consumer. They go to Blockbuster because it is comfortable for them. Most older (older being older than me) middle to lower class individuals I know don't have a netflix account. Most are technology adverse. We on this site are early adopters and either grew up with tech or are just tech starved older consumers. But those baby boomers, the largest set of the population, go to Blockbuster and have a hard time with the internet shopping, consumer culture in general, notice we still have storefronts everywhere and people paying retail. Sorry for those with large wallets hoping to adopt early, but it has already been said, the Wal-Mart crowd decides it, and I know them and they go to Blockbuster after they get their groceries.

Big deal, BIG DEAL indeed.

I think a sizeable chunk of Blockbuster's 5.52 billion is Ice Cream, popcorn, sweets, and other impulse items at their counters.

These would not be part of the 7.5 billion gazillion rental market figure.

Lets not try to marginalize this RDJAM. If we won't to be "pro HD DVD" about this whole thing we can simply hope that they respond with something good of their own to counter this.

The consumer spoke with their dollar.

More BD rentals at Blockbuster.
More Blu-ray disc sales every week since December 24th, 2006.

The consumer has spoken, it's the jaded HD DVD fans that will be doing the suffering. The public will get to enjoy lossless audio and high bit rate encodes; the consumer wins.

Which consumers? The rich ones? $500+ players with the SAME capabilities as $300- players? The only voices that got a chance to be heard were the affluent early adopters. The rest of us stuck on the sidelines and hoping for Black Friday entry into this technology just got aced out. Thanks a ton.

I guess it will be long time (with BD player prices so much higher than HD DVD) before I will be able to enter the game. Sucks big time. Was really looking forward to Black Friday...

Don't be so sure. Even though it looks like the format war will soon be over, Blu-ray still has an even bigger battle to wage: BD vs. standard DVD. I believe this will continue to bring prices down at rapid rates. I suspect we'll have blu-ray players at $300 by the end of the year, and probably $200 players by Christmas of '08 (maybe even sooner).

Not likely.

"A sizeable chunk" - I can't believe you think anyone will agree with this.
I regularly see someone making a $5.00 rental standing in line with a handful of "impulse" goody items.

Even if this accounts for 25% o their sales, it is still a "sizeable chunk". The point being that comparing BB's total annual sales revenue (which includes lots on non-rental items) with the overall size of the rental market is fallacious. You would perhaps imply that all of their other competitors come to little more that 1 billion (gazillion) doolllarrs? (sorry, Mr Evil flashback :) )

Anything that helps end the format war is a good thing. If it's Blu-ray that wins, so much the better for most of us.

But based on the response here, I don't even think Universal declaring in a loud voice, "NO MORE HD DVD FOR US! BLU-RAY IS WHERE ITS AT!" would phase most of the Redcoats around here.

Bad news is bad news. Don't try to downplay Blockbuster or pawn this off as a payoff (as though it doesn't matter since it was or wasn't a payoff) or even try to change the subject to why rentals don't matter at all. Blockbuster is a huge win for Blu-ray. When commercials show high def movies being rented from Blockbuster, it will be Blu-ray. When commercials for most of the big budget, high dollar gross movies for this year come out and show any high def format, it will be mostly Blu-ray. When consumers go into rent a dvd from Blockbuster, they'll see shiny blue cases with Blu-ray stenciled all over them. When Johnny looks at the expensive PS3 and pines for one, he'll be talking about Blu-ray. When every major studio but 1 plays up the formats, it will be talking about Blu-ray (and a couple, too, about HD DVD). When the CE manufacturers talk about their big hardware releases, they will be pushing Blu-ray players.

Blu-ray is everywhere. Consumers are sponges soaking it all in. J6P goes into Best Buy in the near future.

"Hey, I see all these Blu-ray discs at my local blockbuster, do you have any?"
"Sure, they're over there. Oh, and the PS3 plays 'em."
"They're kinda expensive."
"Yeah, but they've got a LOT of movies. See those four full racks of blue cases over there. Titles from Sony, Tristar, Columbia, Disney, BVHE, Touchstone, Miramax, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate (a lot of classics), Warner Brothers, Newline, and Paramount."
"Wow! Hey, I heard about this other thing... HD DVD?"
"Dead format. It's got a half a rack over in the back. Supported by WB, Paramount, and Universal. For a while there, WB and Paramount favored it, but today... today Paramount is doing lossless audio on both making the 1.5 DD+ worthless. And WB, well, WB got in line as soon as November 2007 hit. Yeah, HD DVD's dead. We have a few old HD-A2's left, but they've been heavily discounted below $150. Pretty nice dvd upconverters, if you don't have a Blu-ray player that is."
"Huh? Who'd want anything but Blu-ray if there's so many more movies?"
"Who... indeed. There are a few diehards that come in every now and then that complain about our displays. Tell us we're being unfair. That we should be like Circuit City..."
"Ha! I hate that place, the salesman are pushy..."
"Yeah, don't we all? Hey, so let's talk about that Replacement Plan..."
"I don't know if I can afford that BD player yet though..."
"Ah, remember. We have lots of 0 interest for 6 months credit options available..."

Because we all know how biased toward larger sales Best Buy and its employees are.

With full respect to all participants and moderators:

This whole discussion has been based on the "fact" that Blockbuster is discontinuing HD DVD and selling BD Only in their brick and Mortar stores.

This is not factual...

Reading their press release it seems clear that they will still sell HD DVD in their B&M stores, but are going to "expand" the selection of only BD, and roll it to more stores.

So techinically, the title of this thread is wrong.. Could this be corrected?

This just made the news on TV in Chicago....
Reporting Blockbuster only supporting BD cause it has 70% of the market.

This is going to push alot of normal folks to go BD.

Also the TV news in New York.

Anything that helps end the format war is a good thing. If it's Blu-ray that wins, so much the better for most of us.

But based on the response here, I don't even think Universal declaring in a loud voice, "NO MORE HD DVD FOR US! BLU-RAY IS WHERE ITS AT!" would phase most of the Redcoats around here.

Bad news is bad news. Don't try to downplay Blockbuster or pawn this off as a payoff (as though it doesn't matter since it was or wasn't a payoff) or even try to change the subject to why rentals don't matter at all. Blockbuster is a huge win for Blu-ray. When commercials show high def movies being rented from Blockbuster, it will be Blu-ray. When commercials for most of the big budget, high dollar gross movies for this year come out and show any high def format, it will be mostly Blu-ray. When consumers go into rent a dvd from Blockbuster, they'll see shiny blue cases with Blu-ray stenciled all over them. When Johnny looks at the expensive PS3 and pines for one, he'll be talking about Blu-ray. When every major studio but 1 plays up the formats, it will be talking about Blu-ray (and a couple, too, about HD DVD). When the CE manufacturers talk about their big hardware releases, they will be pushing Blu-ray players.

Blu-ray is everywhere. Consumers are sponges soaking it all in. J6P goes into Best Buy in the near future.

"Hey, I see all these Blu-ray discs at my local blockbuster, do you have any?"
"Sure, they're over there. Oh, and the PS3 plays 'em."
"They're kinda expensive."
"Yeah, but they've got a LOT of movies. See those four full racks of blue cases over there. Titles from Sony, Tristar, Columbia, Disney, BVHE, Touchstone, Miramax, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate (a lot of classics), Warner Brothers, Newline, and Paramount."
"Wow! Hey, I heard about this other thing... HD DVD?"
"Dead format. It's got a half a rack over in the back. Supported by WB, Paramount, and Universal. For a while there, WB and Paramount favored it, but today... today Paramount is doing lossless audio on both making the 1.5 DD+ worthless. And WB, well, WB got in line as soon as November 2007 hit. Yeah, HD DVD's dead. We have a few old HD-A2's left, but they've been heavily discounted below $150. Pretty nice dvd upconverters, if you don't have a Blu-ray player that is."
"Huh? Who'd want anything but Blu-ray if there's so many more movies?"
"Who... indeed. There are a few diehards that come in every now and then that complain about our displays. Tell us we're being unfair. That we should be like Circuit City..."
"Ha! I hate that place, the salesman are pushy..."
"Yeah, don't we all? Hey, so let's talk about that Replacement Plan..."
"I don't know if I can afford that BD player yet though..."
"Ah, remember. We have lots of 0 interest for 6 months credit options available..."

Because we all know how biased toward larger sales Best Buy and its employees are.

You are attributing an awful lot of insightful dialogue to the typical BB idiot. ;)

Anything that helps end the format war is a good thing. If it's Blu-ray that wins, so much the better for most of us.

But based on the response here, I don't even think Universal declaring in a loud voice, "NO MORE HD DVD FOR US! BLU-RAY IS WHERE ITS AT!" would phase most of the Redcoats around here.

Bad news is bad news. Don't try to downplay Blockbuster or pawn this off as a payoff (as though it doesn't matter since it was or wasn't a payoff) or even try to change the subject to why rentals don't matter at all. Blockbuster is a huge win for Blu-ray. When commercials show high def movies being rented from Blockbuster, it will be Blu-ray. When commercials for most of the big budget, high dollar gross movies for this year come out and show any high def format, it will be mostly Blu-ray. When consumers go into rent a dvd from Blockbuster, they'll see shiny blue cases with Blu-ray stenciled all over them. When Johnny looks at the expensive PS3 and pines for one, he'll be talking about Blu-ray. When every major studio but 1 plays up the formats, it will be talking about Blu-ray (and a couple, too, about HD DVD). When the CE manufacturers talk about their big hardware releases, they will be pushing Blu-ray players.

Blu-ray is everywhere. Consumers are sponges soaking it all in. J6P goes into Best Buy in the near future.

"Hey, I see all these Blu-ray discs at my local blockbuster, do you have any?"
"Sure, they're over there. Oh, and the PS3 plays 'em."
"They're kinda expensive."
"Yeah, but they've got a LOT of movies. See those four full racks of blue cases over there. Titles from Sony, Tristar, Columbia, Disney, BVHE, Touchstone, Miramax, MGM, Fox, Lionsgate (a lot of classics), Warner Brothers, Newline, and Paramount."
"Wow! Hey, I heard about this other thing... HD DVD?"
"Dead format. It's got a half a rack over in the back. Supported by WB, Paramount, and Universal. For a while there, WB and Paramount favored it, but today... today Paramount is doing lossless audio on both making the 1.5 DD+ worthless. And WB, well, WB got in line as soon as November 2007 hit. Yeah, HD DVD's dead. We have a few old HD-A2's left, but they've been heavily discounted below $150. Pretty nice dvd upconverters, if you don't have a Blu-ray player that is."
"Huh? Who'd want anything but Blu-ray if there's so many more movies?"
"Who... indeed. There are a few diehards that come in every now and then that complain about our displays. Tell us we're being unfair. That we should be like Circuit City..."
"Ha! I hate that place, the salesman are pushy..."
"Yeah, don't we all? Hey, so let's talk about that Replacement Plan..."
"I don't know if I can afford that BD player yet though..."
"Ah, remember. We have lots of 0 interest for 6 months credit options available..."

Because we all know how biased toward larger sales Best Buy and its employees are.


What a load!!! Can't you BD folks get the picture? You are one side of an EXTREMELY SMALL current user base that amounts to a nearly insignificant portion of the video media landscape at this time. The rest of us stuck on the sidelines never got a chance to have our voices heard. We just got the expensive option force fed to us by Sony. And you expect us to rejoice? Yahoo, the war is over, everyone lost...

10 pages since I read this morning.

Here is your chance. Can someone tell me concretely and show me information which states that the PS3 will output LPCM uncompressed the True HD and DTS-HD tracks?

I understand about MA but I'll cross that bridge later on.

I think the BB thing is more psychological than anything. Most early adopters already have a source other than a B&M store.

Now if Sony Music picked up BD as their prefered high end audio format, I'm there :)

Seriously if the PS3 does not dumb down the audio and basically what my A2/D2 does then I'd for sure look into the format.

I have 19 days to return my A2/D2 and Netflix is easy to change over.

I can't link you to anything but I can confirm that on the PS3 TrueHD comes out as up to 7.1 LPCM via HDMI to my Denon 987 receiver. Games also output up to 7.1 LPCM (depending on the game).

DTS-MA is decoded as a normal DTS bitstream and output as LPCM in my setup (NOT lossless, this is the lossy core)...

Also the TV news in New York.

Well, hddvd still has Harry Knowles of aicn to support it..

What a load!!! Can't you BD folks get the picture? You are one side of an EXTREMELY SMALL current user base that amounts to a nearly insignificant portion of the video media landscape at this time. The rest of us stuck on the sidelines never got a chance to have our voices heard. We just got the expensive option force fed to us by Sony. And you expect us to rejoice? Yahoo, the war is over, everyone lost...

Hahah.. Oh no, "Sony" won. Look at the BDA, they are just a part of it.

Also the TV news in New York.

And on 1010WINS Business report in New York every hour.

Also the TV news in New York.


It was also in the Global and free newspaper "Metro" In big letters in the stocks section. I know it doesnt mean much but that paper reaches millions of people around the globe every day.

Which consumers? The rich ones? $500+ players with the SAME capabilities as $300- players? The only voices that got a chance to be heard were the affluent early adopters. The rest of us stuck on the sidelines and hoping for Black Friday entry into this technology just got aced out. Thanks a ton.
It really doesn't matter who they are, the fact remains that more people were renting Blu-rays and more people have been buying BLu-ray discs. Again, every week since December 24th, 2006 there have been more Blu-ray discs sold than HD DVD discs.

Most older (older being older than me)
Older always is. :)

I think a sizeable chunk of Blockbuster's 5.52 billion is Ice Cream, popcorn, sweets, and other impulse items at their counters.

These would not be part of the 7.5 billion gazillion rental market figure.

Well, there is truly no sense debating with you, your stubbornness is alarming.

Disagree.

The only reason either format is as (pick one, or more) cheap, good, available, etc. as they are, is due to at least some extent, to the competition between them.

As soon as one goes bye-bye, you can bet the advancement of the remaining format will diminish. No competition = no forward movement.
Interesting to know what that actual impact HD DVD and BD had on each other as opposed to traditional market forces. But now that the specs are pretty much set in stone, how can each format "improve"? As for price, the BDA just didn't get sucked into the rock-bottom strategy but followed the traditional price curve. I'm pretty sure my 2nd gen dvd player was 1/2 of what I paid for my first Toshiba. Same with one of my 2nd gen SXRD rear projector - about 45% off the previous model's MSRP.

I would think future advancements would come from competitive battles within the BDA CE companies and individual studios. Sony competes on the hardware sales level with Panasonic; Disney competes with Warner on movie sales; VC-1 competes with AVC and mpeg2; BBV competes with Netflix in the rental market; etc.

I think your scenario is only true if one company dominates their market (like BBV has with brick & mortar rental side.) Perhaps that's why this news is so important, as it appears BDA has secured a crucial delivery method. If BBV didn't have such a high traffic business with a lot of comsumer's eyes, the announcement wouldn't have registered a blip in the traditional media outlets (but still discussed to death on AVS...)

there will be a sub $300 palyer available by black friday. isn't costco getting 301's by the end of the month?

Well, there is truly no sense debating with you, your stubbornness is alarming.

It will not matter what is said or announced. We have several people here that will insist hddvd is the winning format. All sense and reason (and plain sense, we don't need this format war anymore) will go out the window.

I regularly see someone making a $5.00 rental standing in line with a handful of "impulse" goody items.
I regularly see people with 3 or 4 rentals in their hands and no goodies, because they've already bought them at the supermarket where they are cheaper.

Lets lay this out:

Blu-ray:

1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
requires new production lines for software manufacture
BDA promised high prices by Sony

HD DVD:
1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
software production compatible with current DVD lines
Toshiba rapidly passes cost savings to consumers.

I see one, and only one advantage on these specs. With one option, consumers save money sooner. The other forces us to wait. Gee, which should I have been rooting for? Real tough choice...

there will be a sub $300 palyer available by black friday. isn't costco getting 301's by the end of the month?


The way things were going, we were going to be WELL under $200 with HD DVD by then. Pay attention!

Lets lay this out:

Blu-ray:

1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
requires new production lines for software manufacture
BDA promised high prices by Sony

HD DVD:
1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
software production compatible with current DVD lines
Toshiba rapidly passes cost savings to consumers.

I see one, and only one advantage on these specs. With one option, consumers save money sooner. The other forces us to wait. Gee, which should I have been rooting for? Real tough choice...

Price is elastic and will even out eventually, its a FACT....studio support is concrete and an important variable that you are conveniently leaving out.

I regularly see someone making a $5.00 rental standing in line with a handful of "impulse" goody items.

Even if this accounts for 25% o their sales, it is still a "sizeable chunk". The point being that comparing BB's total annual sales revenue (which includes lots on non-rental items) with the overall size of the rental market is fallacious. You would perhaps imply that all of their other competitors come to little more that 1 billion (gazillion) doolllarrs? (sorry, Mr Evil flashback :) )

I'm impressed by your scientific method. Clearly 25% of Blockbuster's revenue comes from the items you personally see people holding in line. Bravo!

The only thing i wonder is how this helps movie studios out, Yes renting might push players more but wouldn't a movie studio rather have the consumer buy the movie over renting the movie more so they can pull in more income.

Lets lay this out:

Blu-ray:

1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
requires new production lines for software manufacture
BDA promised high prices by Sony

HD DVD:
1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
software production compatible with current DVD lines
Toshiba rapidly passes cost savings to consumers.

I see one, and only one advantage on these specs. With one option, consumers save money sooner. The other forces us to wait. Gee, which should I have been rooting for? Real tough choice...

Yeah, but 50gigs vs 30, and higher bandwidth? Why'd you leave those out?

With full respect to all participants and moderators:

This whole discussion has been based on the "fact" that Blockbuster is discontinuing HD DVD and selling BD Only in their brick and Mortar stores.

This is not factual...

Reading their press release it seems clear that they will still sell HD DVD in their B&M stores, but are going to "expand" the selection of only BD, and roll it to more stores.

So techinically, the title of this thread is wrong.. Could this be corrected?
The look and sound of ... desperate.

What a load!!! Can't you BD folks get the picture? You are one side of an EXTREMELY SMALL current user base that amounts to a nearly insignificant portion of the video media landscape at this time. The rest of us stuck on the sidelines never got a chance to have our voices heard. We just got the expensive option force fed to us by Sony. And you expect us to rejoice? Yahoo, the war is over, everyone lost...
If you cared so much about the format war, you should have participated.

The way things were going, we were going to be WELL under $200 with HD DVD by then. Pay attention!

but not the content. format needs both in order to succeed, at this point only bd can deliver both: affordable players and desirable content. spiderman, potc, shreck vs. knocked up, inside man... also all the stuff that warner has on hddvd now will be on bd by xmas.

Yeah, but 50gigs vs 30, and higher bandwidth? Why'd you leave those out?


OOOOHHHH, wow, numbers!!! Two hour+ movies with all the video and audio options necessary fit just fine on the 30gig disks. Blu-ray used the extra space to throw on redundant lossless audio tracks. Woopie.

As for the studio's, that would not have mattered one iota if HD DVD had won this war. The question was which FORMAT was better for consumers. I don't care what the studios initially decided to support, they all would have been with the winner eventually. That is not a factor.

The only thing i wonder is how this helps movie studios out, Yes renting might push players more but wouldn't a movie studio rather have the consumer buy the movie over renting the movie more so they can pull in more income.

Studios have profit sharing with rentals........

I think its so funny how the main argument for Pro HDDVD was always "wait see the long term picture, just wait its not a sprint" And now when we see steps and progress towards getting a universal (haha pun intended i guess) format all the HDDVD supporters shout from the mountaintops "but what are the studios gaining RIGHT NOW dont they want the moneys nowwww!!?!?!?!"

Yeah, but 50gigs vs 30, and higher bandwidth? Why'd you leave those out?

Because the more things he includes the more HD DVD looks like a bad choice.

I'm watching American Werewolf in London, on hddvd now.. And the painful transform reminds me a lot of the pangs the hddvd fans are going through.

And now avs itself.. phew.

If you cared so much about the format war, you should have participated.


Wow, can't understand economics I see. I could not afford it. Get it? Geezzzz....

With full respect to all participants and moderators:

This whole discussion has been based on the "fact" that Blockbuster is discontinuing HD DVD and selling BD Only in their brick and Mortar stores.

This is not factual...

Reading their press release it seems clear that they will still sell HD DVD in their B&M stores, but are going to "expand" the selection of only BD, and roll it to more stores.

So techinically, the title of this thread is wrong.. Could this be corrected?


rdjam,

Even if this thread gets closed for running its course, it doesn't change the fact that Blockbuster has decided that Blu-Ray is the way to go and they will not carry any future HD-DVD's for rent in their stores anymore... Perhaps all the HD-DVD titles they have so far will remain for rental until they make no more money for them and are placed in a bargain bin...However it is very desperate to try and spin this thread in such a way as to get the title of this thread changed.

Would you like the thread changed to "Blockbuster is going to only stock up on Blu-Ray from now on and the current supply of HD-DVD's will slowly fade away in stores" I think that is too long of a title and all of that is readily explained once someone begins reading this long thread...

The look and sound of ... desperate.


lol, I missed that one on my reply to rdjam ;)

OOOOHHHH, wow, numbers!!! Two hour+ movies with all the video and audio options necessary fit just fine on the 30gig disks. Blu-ray used the extra space to throw on redundant lossless audio tracks. Woopie.

As for the studio's, that would not have mattered one iota if HD DVD had won this war. The question was which FORMAT was better for consumers. I don't care what the studios initially decided to support, they all would have been with the winner eventually. That is not a factor.

Capacity and bandwidth are certaintly a major factor in the next video/storage media for movies/data.

Personally, I think high bandwidth AVC encoded movies look a lot better than the overly compressed hddvd's with VC-1.

Wow, can't understand economics I see. I could not afford it. Get it? Geezzzz....
I get it, I just don't care. You're complaining because someone through a war and you weren't invited.

Because the more things he includes the more HD DVD looks like a bad choice.

I included what was important. A 2+ hour movie in 1080p video with lossless audio. That is what we are talking about. HD DVD delivered at a better price point now and in the forseeable future. Those of us on limited budgets now must wait even longer to enjoy it.

Wow, can't understand economics I see. I could not afford it. Get it? Geezzzz....

Doesn't make sense. hdtvs are expensive. If you can afford that, you can afford a bit more to be an early BD adopter I'd think. The price difference hasn't been that much at all.

Indeed, and he didn't reply to my Private Messages asking about his comments on the other forum, either.

I don’t reply (or even open) P.M.’s that carry certain inflammatory subject titles.

I'm watching American Werewolf in London, on hddvd now.. And the painful transform reminds me a lot of the pangs the hddvd fans are going through.

Then maybe you're taking this way to seriously...

I get it, I just don't care. You're complaining because someone through a war and you weren't invited.

Great, you don't care. Pretty much sums up BD supporters. Thanks.

Exactly!

As a person who was born and rasied in CA(Hollywood area,L.A.), the WHOLE state name drops.

We have about 10 million waitresses that are in the acting biz

Hey, I got my pics of the back cover of The Fifth Element (Remastered) from one of those waitresses ! :D

Once again a reminder

please no bickering or bashing other members

Thank you

Then maybe you're taking this way to seriously...

Not me, the hddvd fans' anguish is what I am referring to.

I know what HD DVD can do to counter this! The HD DVD promotional group should spend all their money to...

...
...
...
...

GO ON THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW! When Oprah has a big show about HD DVD and says "You know, America, I prefer Toshiba - YES!" - it'll brain-wash the whole nation. The show will be all fancy with the Oprah music/promotion and it'll end with her going "AND......EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE GETS ONE!!!" The whole crowd will then pass out with joy for something they can barely understand.

American housewives will buy it for their fathers, sons, and husbands as if it was the only thing that exists. All Oprah needs is her little brain-washing tactics and maybe an interview with Matthew McConaughey wearing a tight black & red HD DVD shirt and pretending to be an HD DVD rep...AND THEN IT'S ALL OVER for blu-ray... :D

Doesn't make sense. hdtvs are expensive. If you can afford that, you can afford a bit more to be an early BD adopter I'd think. The price difference hasn't been that much at all.

Oh my gosh, what is so hard to understand about this!!@!!!

HD DVD was going to make it to my price point MUCH sooner. No kidding I couldn't afford it now. I was waiting and hoping for sooner. Now its going to be later. Much later.

You know, great, you won your war. Have you little party. But just understand there are plenty of losers in this. I lost. I will not have HD media for Christmas.

I included what was important.
You included what was important to you. That's not necessarily the same as what's important to studios or all other users.

I included what was important. A 2+ hour movie in 1080p video with lossless audio. That is what we are talking about. HD DVD delivered at a better price point now and in the forseeable future. Those of us on limited budgets now must wait even longer to enjoy it.

i agree with you that right now hddvd can deliver at a better price point but in the future winning format's pricing will be significantly better than that of hddvd today. studios want largest possible distribution platform for their content and i am sure they have assurances from sony and bda about affordable players. stalemate is the worst option for consumers, hddvd cannot win due to lack of content so bd is the one to support.

Lets lay this out:

Blu-ray:

1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
requires new production lines for software manufacture
BDA promised high prices by Sony

HD DVD:
1080p video
lossless 7.1 audio
software production compatible with current DVD lines
Toshiba rapidly passes cost savings to consumers.

I see one, and only one advantage on these specs. With one option, consumers save money sooner. The other forces us to wait. Gee, which should I have been rooting for? Real tough choice...
Instead of rehashing the format war stuff, let's focus on Blockbuster's decision.

BD:
- 70% of HD rental business
- better hardcoating = less scratches = less expenses paid to resurface or repurchase discs
- ability to stock 90% of HD titles under one format
- similar MSRP of HD release titles (since no one knows how much BBV actually pays per disk)
- help putting one HD optical format in position to win increases future sales (as opposed to allowing downloading as the future of the rental market if this had become a stalemated battle)

These are important to BBV's bottom-line decision. Why would they care how much it cost replicators to build a new line? It's not like they passed the cost savings to the consumer or BBV.

Oh my gosh, what is so hard to understand about this!!@!!!

HD DVD was going to make it to my price point MUCH sooner. No kidding I couldn't afford it now. I was waiting and hoping for sooner. Now its going to be later. Much later.

They are $100 difference at the moment MSRP. Street prices will reflect that.

Are you saying that you have an HDTV that can play HD movies and can't afford a $100 premium (right now) for the player?

Heck, give it a few months, BD has been *very* close in hardware price consistently, within $100 all the way. Sure BD will be a little more, but in a few years the hardware will be equal anyway.

If you really can't afford BD now, I'm sorry. But, hddvd wasn't gonna be that much cheaper either. And really read what people are saying. Once BD takes over, it'll be a battle with SD DVD and things will get much cheaper than hddvd can offer now.

I know what HD DVD can do to counter this! The HD DVD promotional group should spend all their money to...

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GO ON THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW! When Oprah has a big show about HD DVD and says "You know, America, I prefer Toshiba - YES!" - it'll brain-wash the whole nation. The show will be all fancy with the Oprah music/promotion and it'll end with her going "AND......EVERYBODY IN THE AUDIENCE GETS ONE!!!" The whole crowd will then pass out with joy for something they can barely understand.

American housewives will buy it for their fathers, sons, and husbands as if it was the only thing that exists. All Oprah needs is her little brain-washing tactics and maybe an interview with Mathew McConahey wearing a tight black & right HD DVD shirt and pretending to be an HD DVD rep...AND THEN IT'S ALL OVER for blu-ray... :D

I wouldn't be surprised if something like this would happen.

Better yet :) Get Rosy o' Donnel to become the new face of HD-DVD and it'll sure be enough to brainwash lots of people. Perhaps then Sony would hire Trump to promote Blu-Ray so that might backfire..

Not me, the hddvd fans' anguish is what I am referring to.

Yeah, I know what you're refering to. But if you really think that the level of anguish is that high, then you're wrapped up in this a little too far. Maybe you should take a break from posting for a few minutes so that people don't get the impression that all you are here to do is mock and ridicule members who've bought into HD DVD.

It will not matter what is said or announced. We have several people here that will insist hddvd is the winning format. All sense and reason (and plain sense, we don't need this format war anymore) will go out the window.
And there are some who claim the BB BD expansion is the "end of the war", and the rest who say it is NOT that simple - despite plain sense and reason... ;)

Edit: Left out the "not" part.. :)

Yeah, I know what you're refering to. But if you really think that the level of anguish is that high, then you're wrapped up in this a little too far. Maybe you should take a break from posting for a few minutes so that people don't get the impression that all you are here to do is mock and ridicule members who've bought into HD DVD.

If I'm mistaken, then it's not a mockery at all. However, seeing the hddvd fans reactions to their format dying does remind me of such a situation.

Oh my gosh, what is so hard to understand about this!!@!!!

HD DVD was going to make it to my price point MUCH sooner. No kidding I couldn't afford it now. I was waiting and hoping for sooner. Now its going to be later. Much later.
It's why I drive a 2006 Corvette and not a McClaren F1. The Corvette made it to my price point MUCH sooner.

I get it, and so does everyone else, its just that no one cares. Now if you were talking about food for your family, then my check would be in the mail, but to hear people complaining about electronics as if others should have a bleeding heart due to their cost is just a sad state of where our mindset is today.

Hey, I got my pics of the back cover of The Fifth Element (Remastered) from one of those waitresses ! :D

LoL

They are $100 difference at the moment MSRP. Street prices will reflect that.

Are you saying that you have an HDTV that can play HD movies and can't afford a $100 premium (right now) for the player?

Heck, give it a few months, BD has been *very* close in hardware price consistently, within $100 all the way. Sure BD will be a little more, but in a few years the hardware will be equal anyway.

If you really can't afford BD now, I'm sorry. But, hddvd wasn't gonna be that much cheaper either. And really read what people are saying. Once BD takes over, it'll be a battle with SD DVD and things will get much cheaper than hddvd can offer now.

I have an HDTV (a Philips 9630 42" plasma) because I was fortunate enough to win one from ESPN2 and the Mike and Mike show. Would not have one otherwise, nor have any hope of having one soon.

Who are you???? You are obviously well connected.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGwfPxrB6A8

Seriously, Rich, you are a lucky fellow. She is a prize. :)

I'm impressed by your scientific method. Clearly 25% of Blockbuster's revenue comes from the items you personally see people holding in line. Bravo!
It's what's called a "common sense poll" :)

However, I am sure that Blockbuster will have publicly reported to it's shareholders what percentage of it's B&M store revenue comes from everything other than movie rentals.

Anyone want to look it up? I'm just curious about how far wrong I am...

I have to question if Blockbuster was biased in the first place.

I regularly visit my downtown Houston store, and the HD-DVD's are always empty. I question if it's the fact that there is only like 2 copies of each movie, or if it's more popular. I see more copies of BD movies sitting on the shelves than I do HD.

Admittedly, there are more BD titles to chose from, but it's approximately a 5 to 4 ratio. Hollywood video has a 2 to 1 set up, and Blockbuster is more like 3 to 2, either way, both stores are giving more shelf space to BD.

Blockbuster also doesn't release as many HD-DVD titles as it does BD. New movies come out and they carry the new BD titles, but all new HD titles remain unseen.

I feel they were biased before the test stores even started carrying either format.

I also agree that they may be shooting themselves in the foot. Toshiba units were selling like crazy during this recent $100 off promotion. The demand for HD has just increased alot, but Blockbuster is closing that door intentionally. Also they're putting there only advantage over Netflix (in store return/re-rent) in jeopardy.

I suggest if you own a HD-DVD player, start demanding titles being carried in stores that don't offer BD yet, and for those stores that do carry high def formats, demand MORE HD-DVD titles.

Stand alone player owners are the silent majority (When i say stand alone, i mean HD-DVD, because the PS3 is a toy, and BD stand alone sales are dismal). We enjoy our format, but we're not fanboy about it. Sony has fanboys on their side, loud obnoxious individuals who get their opinions heard. Most rentals are going to PS3 owners anyways, and we all know the video game console war is inundated with fanboys. HD-DVD supporters need to speak up and demand content if we want to protect our investments.

If BD was less expensive, I would have no problem owning a BD player, but I disagree with Sony's attitude towards consumer electronics consumers. Sony considers themselves the 'Mercedes' of consumer electronics, and if people can't afford their overpriced products, so be it. The market price is set by Sony for BD players, so any other respectable firm (Samsung) is going to follow the same pricing guidelines. I look forward to the cheapo chinese players.

BD is only better as a media storage format. As a computer disk drive. As far as video quality and audio quality, it has nothing over HD-DVD.

HD-DVD owners need to support their investments, they need to speak up, they need to show their friends that BD isn't better, only more expensive, they need to demand more content from their media providers (stores that rent/sell). I'm sick of walking into Best Buy and not having a full selection of movies. I want to be able to go pick up a movie if i like it, i don't want to wait a week for Amazon.com to deliver it.

HD-DVD is better for the consumer, there are no license fees associated with it unlike Sony's proprietary Bluray. If HD-DVD goes away, and BD wins outright, expect prices to soar.

I'm glad I bought the Toshiba HD-A2 for 300, it's not a huge investment, and i love the picture quality. But I'll be happy if a new format kicks both of their butts, because this dual format quagmire is detrimental to the widespread adaptation of High definition in American homes.

My dad has a high def tv without a built in NTSC tuner, and he thinks his picture looks great. I can't force him to buy an NTSC tuner, I can't force him to buy a next gen player, but if more of his friends had the technology, he would adopt a format as well.

Currently i'm pro HD-DVD, thats obvious, I'm not ANTI-Bluray, i'm anti-Sony. If a unit becomes available that is inexpensive and meets my needs (price to capability ratio) I'll buy a player if the market is really leaning that way. In the meantime, i'm happy with my HD-DVD.

I have an HDTV (a Philips 9630 42" plasma) because I was fortunate enough to win one from ESPN2 and the Mike and Mike show. Would not have one otherwise, nor have any hope of having one soon.

Ok, then burn your money for now on the hddvd. It has a lot of money, and that's not gonna go away. If it's cheaper, go that way.

Ok, then burn your money for now on the hddvd. It has a lot of money, and that's not gonna go away. If it's cheaper, go that way.

I can't afford it now. Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.Later. Later.

Will they remember I said later?

With blu-ray, you can add about twenty more lines of 'later'.

I purchased an HD DVD player

I want to say THANK YOU to Blockbuster

They have started what will quickly become a landslide and kill one of the HD formats - my format.

But I'm actually happy.

This format war has been good for nobody. Certainly not us, not the retailers, the studios or even the two competing companies.

The sooner it's over and one prevails the better chance we will have of seeing a thriving disc based HD system rather than tow that are irrelevent.

So thank you Blockbuster. I chose the wrong format but never purchased any discs. Hopefully, Netflix, Best Buy, Wal Mart and Universal will all join quickly to put us all out of our misery.

Rob

The only reason either format is as (pick one, or more) cheap, good, available, etc. as they are, is due to at least some extent, to the competition between them.

As soon as one goes bye-bye, you can bet the advancement of the remaining format will diminish. No competition = no forward movement.I very much agree with this. The competition between the two formats has not only driven the development of each, but also the features, price performance and value.

In addition, it has encouraged more releases from most studios (save Fox, but for different, non-competitive reasons).

In addition, it has encouraged more releases from most studios (save Fox, but for different, non-competitive reasons).

Save universal above all.

With full respect to all participants and moderators:

This whole discussion has been based on the "fact" that Blockbuster is discontinuing HD DVD and selling BD Only in their brick and Mortar stores.

This is not factual...

Reading their press release it seems clear that they will still sell HD DVD in their B&M stores, but are going to "expand" the selection of only BD, and roll it to more stores.

So techinically, the title of this thread is wrong.. Could this be corrected?The look and sound of ... desperate.
How so? Because someone wants the thread title and discussion to reflect the truthful, actual situation?... :rolleyes: