I have to question if Blockbuster was biased in the first place.

HD-DVD is better for the consumer, there are no license fees associated with it unlike Sony's proprietary Bluray. If HD-DVD goes away, and BD wins outright, expect prices to soar.

.


I doubt it, because Sony needs this to become mainstream. At $30 per disc it will never be mainstream. The reason that normal people buy discs is that they see a title they like for under $20

Sony has zero interest in a high end monopoly the size of laserdisc.

Rob

I guess I'll sit on the fence a while longer now.... If you can't afford it or just can't convince the other half, then wait. :) If you got kids, the PS3 however is a great value now until cheaper players come later.

As far as downloading is the future, it could be. Right now though, downloading is HD Lite with lossy sound, storage is too expensive (unless the video is streaming and THAT internet is even more expensive) and broadband is really not available everywhere.

HD optical media is just easier. All you need is a player/drive, the movies, your home theater and you're set. No need for broadband.


fuad

- better hardcoating = less scratches = less expenses paid to resurface or repurchase discsThis is often overlooked but very important for rentals. Other rental places will follow soon now that they don't have to compete with Blockbuster for HD DVD.

Does anyone seriously believe that a long term format war is a good thing?
Does anyone here seriously think that any normal person can see or hear the difference?

Nope

So let's rejoice.

I backed HD DVD - I'm just glad this is the beginning of the end of the stupidity phase of HD

Rob

Originally Posted by NavyMSU
HD-DVD is better for the consumer, there are no license fees associated with it unlike Sony's proprietary Bluray. If HD-DVD goes away, and BD wins outright, expect prices to soar.

So Toshiba makes HD DVD with no financial motivation... Unlike evil Sony, Toshiba's HD DVD is license free! Right... And, Warner doesn't get paid for every DVD sold with the DVD Logo on it.

Sometimes I wonder where you guys come up with these delusions.

fitprod

I very much agree with this. The competition between the two formats has not only driven the development of each, but also the features, price performance and value.

In addition, it has encouraged more releases from most studios (save Fox, but for different, non-competitive reasons).

I disagree. I can speak for myself and a couple of friends: while I rent blu-ray off netflix, I would not consider buying a single movie (regardless of price) until this format war is over.

If there was no format war, but the movies were in the $20 (still expensive), I would buy fewer movies (only my favorites), but I would still buy them.

They are $100 difference at the moment MSRP. Street prices will reflect that.

Are you saying that you have an HDTV that can play HD movies and can't afford a $100 premium (right now) for the player?

Heck, give it a few months, BD has been *very* close in hardware price consistently, within $100 all the way. Sure BD will be a little more, but in a few years the hardware will be equal anyway.

If you really can't afford BD now, I'm sorry. But, hddvd wasn't gonna be that much cheaper either. And really read what people are saying. Once BD takes over, it'll be a battle with SD DVD and things will get much cheaper than hddvd can offer now.


BD has never been that close in prices. Only the recent 499 player has even come close. BD has been on average $200 or more, not $100.

You might be comparing similar products, but Toshiba was smart to provide players that don't offer 1080p because a large number of consumers purchased HDTVs in years leading up to 2007, when 1080i and 720p were predominant.

I have a 720p television, I sit approx 8 feet from it, science has shown that for a 42" tv, at 8 feet, you can't tell the difference between 1080 and 720, and there is mathematical proof.

I'm happy with my 720p television. If BD were to release a 300 player that forgoes Dolby TrueHD and 1080p, i would buy it.

You argue about having a HD tv and not wanted to spend a premium.. why be stupid and throw away money. HD-DVD has the same resolution and audio support. I put my money behind a technology that gives me what i need, not what they think i must have. Give me the less expensive, non-proprietary format any day.

The Studio support will waver if Toshiba keeps up this pricing war. Large Name Brand firm have a higher marginal cost than HD firms, and they can't win in a price war. If HD picks up market share (by selling to people who can't waste $600 on a player), then it'll build a wider, more diverse user base than the average, white/male 16-30 year old, PS3 owners. Look at the stand alone market (adults 30+ buy stand alone players primarily) - ignore the PS3, and you'll see some scary statistics, not scary to me, I'm an HD-DVD supporter.

So Toshiba makes HD DVD with no financial motivation... Unlike evil Sony, Toshiba's HD DVD is license free! Right... And, Warner doesn't get paid for every DVD sold with the DVD Logo on it.

Sometimes I wonder where you guys come up with these delusions.

fitprod

You can find this on digg as well. There's a real weird thing with online people saying things are pure good and then there are corporate. Underdog==top and pure

That's the effect we are seeing here as well.

BD has never been that close in prices. Only the recent 499 player has even come close.

Err, ok so now it's close.

I purchased an HD DVD player

I want to say THANK YOU to Blockbuster

They have started what will quickly become a landslide and kill one of the HD formats - my format.

But I'm actually happy.

This format war has been good for nobody. Certainly not us, not the retailers, the studios or even the two competing companies.

The sooner it's over and one prevails the better chance we will have of seeing a thriving disc based HD system rather than tow that are irrelevent.

So thank you Blockbuster. I chose the wrong format but never purchased any discs. Hopefully, Netflix, Best Buy, Wal Mart and Universal will all join quickly to put us all out of our misery.

Rob
Very sensible post, I wished more felt the way you did, and were willing to act the same way.

We need one format now. I chose right, but only because I waited until after the PS3 was released to choose a format. If I had picked the wrong format, I would be disappointed, but mostly happy that the damn format war is over.

This signals the end of the war, and I hope the endgame is soon and we can all put our passion into furthering the winning HD format, Blu-ray, instead of fighting with each other.

It was not a mistake. Anyone that's for jeopardizing this format war to be lost to HD is a 'traitor to HD'.

The religious ferver around here is getting old. HD DVD supporters are traitors, what are folks who don't support either format? Heretics?

Some people around here need to get outside a little bit more. Watch the news. If you want to be passionate about something, there are kids on this planet right now that are starving to death. There's no way the term "traitor" should ever show up in a discussion regarding movies. Nobody here owes either camp, nor the studios, anything. Therefore, it is impossible for anybody in this discussion to be a traitor. If somebody wants to go back to watching movies on VHS, or stop watching movies altogether, that is their right. Anyone who thinks otherwise has crossed over into the realm of zealotry.

Everybody take a time out and write down the following on a piece of paper:

Family
Friends
Community
Blockbuster
Work
Health

Now number them in the order in which they are a priority to you. If Blockbuster isn't dead last, you should take a break from the forums for awhile.

Does anyone seriously beleiev that a long term format war is a good thing
Does anyone here seriously think that any normal person can see or hear the difference

Nope

So let's rejoice.

I backed HD DVD - I'm just glad this is the beginning of the end of the stupidity phase of HD

Rob

Agreed :)

Personally, I haven't heard a peep out of the average consumer, my family, friends about either HD format. In all honesty they won't buy them until they are $100 dollars any way and then will still have to wait for 1080p TV's to come down to around $1000. It's funny that we argue afordability of HD formats when in reality the TV's are an even bigger factor. If you can't watch a HD disc in full HD then you probably are not going to buy one in the first place. When all 1080p tv's are down to an affordable range you can bet that if their are still two formats or even one they will be affordable as well. The silliness over formats is all for not as you can't even enjoy them without droping around $2000 for a decent TV and with the average American income in the mid 30 to low 40 range, with a mortgage and car payment, $2000 for a fancy TV is a lot. I know, I grew up in this range and saw it happen with my family and friends over and over again. It is all about TV prices folks, the formats will be sold when the TV's are affordable.

BD has never been that close in prices. Only the recent 499 player has even come close. BD has been on average $200 or more, not $100.

You might be comparing similar products, but Toshiba was smart to provide players that don't offer 1080p because a large number of consumers purchased HDTVs in years leading up to 2007, when 1080i and 720p were predominant.

I have a 720p television, I sit approx 8 feet from it, science has shown that for a 42" tv, at 8 feet, you can't tell the difference between 1080 and 720, and there is mathematical proof.

I'm happy with my 720p television. If BD were to release a 300 player that forgoes Dolby TrueHD and 1080p, i would buy it.

You argue about having a HD tv and not wanted to spend a premium.. why be stupid and throw away money. HD-DVD has the same resolution and audio support. I put my money behind a technology that gives me what i need, not what they think i must have. Give me the less expensive, non-proprietary format any day.

The Studio support will waver if Toshiba keeps up this pricing war. Large Name Brand firm have a higher marginal cost than HD firms, and they can't win in a price war. If HD picks up market share (by selling to people who can't waste $600 on a player), then it'll build a wider, more diverse user base than the average, white/male 16-30 year old, PS3 owners. Look at the stand alone market (adults 30+ buy stand alone players primarily) - ignore the PS3, and you'll see some scary statistics, not scary to me, I'm an HD-DVD supporter.And all that doesn't matter for Blockbuster because BD rentals were the majority and the drawback of carrying HD DVD far surpasses the drawback of not carrying it.

steve, I totally agree. I was saying 'traitor' to the HD cause. I am more concerned about offshoring, jihadism, and illegal aliens.

You should have realized that when I said a 'traitor to HD' that's all I meant. Weird how you expanded that to every subject.

Ok, thanks! We have it:

Netflix Total Revenue for the year 2006: $996.7 million
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html)

Blockbuster Total Revenue for the year 2006: $5.52 billion
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6419949.html)

Total Rental Market Revenue for the year 2006: $7.5 billions
(according to http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm)

So we get:

13.4% for Netflix
73.6% for Blockbuster

So Blockbuster got 73.6% of the US Rental Marketshare? Is it true?

This is bad news for HD DVD. :(

I'm surprised nobody even bothered to look at the outrageous claim that "BB owns 76% of the market share" comments that have been posted several times in this thread.

I can assure you this is far from the case.

Lets look at real facts and not "AVS forum Facts":

Fact # 1: The 7.5 Billion was for US consumer spending: DVD rental transactions.
Fact # 2: The 5.5B revenues is accounting for worldwide sales. BBI has thousands of stores outside the US. 34.5% of revenue was generated in non-US stores.
Fact # 3: The actual world wide rental revenue for BBI (not counting late fees, merchandise, and PRP sales) was 3.34B.
Fact # 4: Therefore the actual rental revenue for the US was roughly $2.2B.
Fact # 5: This number includes video game rentals. We don't know if this is included in the "DVD rental transactions" from the article.

The same scrutiny will need to be applied to Netflix and Movie Gallery if you want an apples to apples comparison.

Clearly the 76% number is a bunch of BS, but has already been adopted as fact by a few people with blue glasses on.

Kinda sad really.

It is obvious that everybody is so excited about any news about either HD-DVD or BD.

What is the percentage of people who physically visit a Blockbuster actually own a PS3? What are the profiles of Blockbuster customers? Any geographic distribution correlations between current PS3 owners and the new Blockbuster stores? I suspect that anywhere there is high concentration of PS3 owners, there will be a high concentration of HD-DVD stand along owners. Being BD exclusive will cost Blockbuster money, but they must have decided the risk is somehow tolerable. Anyway, I believe this decision is suspicious and very much aimed at short term concession from BD camp because they do not drop HD-DVD completely.

I haven't rent a movie from Blockbuster for years, but would be interested doing so if they carry HD-DVD locally. Given their current choice of sides, I will just have to give my money to Netflix.

I have to question if Blockbuster was biased in the first place.

I regularly visit my downtown Houston store, and the HD-DVD's are always empty. I question if it's the fact that there is only like 2 copies of each movie, or if it's more popular. I see more copies of BD movies sitting on the shelves than I do HD.Have to agree with you there. They usually had the latest BD releases in right away, but not usually the case for HD. This, in and of itself, would have swung the BD rental sales numbers in BDs favour.

Blockbuster also doesn't release as many HD-DVD titles as it does BD. New movies come out and they carry the new BD titles, but all new HD titles remain unseen.Correct - same point.

I feel they were biased before the test stores even started carrying either format.Quite possibly, tho there's little doubt now.

I also agree that they may be shooting themselves in the foot. Toshiba units were selling like crazy during this recent $100 off promotion. The demand for HD has just increased alot, but Blockbuster is closing that door intentionally. Also they're putting there only advantage over Netflix (in store return/re-rent) in jeopardy.

I suggest if you own a HD-DVD player, start demanding titles being carried in stores that don't offer BD yet, and for those stores that do carry high def formats, demand MORE HD-DVD titles.

Stand alone player owners are the silent majority (When i say stand alone, i mean HD-DVD, because the PS3 is a toy, and BD stand alone sales are dismal). We enjoy our format, but we're not fanboy about it. Sony has fanboys on their side, loud obnoxious individuals who get their opinions heard. Most rentals are going to PS3 owners anyways, and we all know the video game console war is inundated with fanboys. HD-DVD supporters need to speak up and demand content if we want to protect our investments.

If BD was less expensive, I would have no problem owning a BD player, but I disagree with Sony's attitude towards consumer electronics consumers. Sony considers themselves the 'Mercedes' of consumer electronics, and if people can't afford their overpriced products, so be it. The market price is set by Sony for BD players, so any other respectable firm (Samsung) is going to follow the same pricing guidelines. I look forward to the cheapo chinese players.Yes, this thing is far from over, tho a lot of folks will attempt to say this single thing makes it so.

HD-DVD owners need to support their investments, they need to speak up, they need to show their friends that BD isn't better, only more expensive, they need to demand more content from their media providers (stores that rent/sell). I'm sick of walking into Best Buy and not having a full selection of movies. I want to be able to go pick up a movie if i like it, i don't want to wait a week for Amazon.com to deliver it.

If HD-DVD goes away, and BD wins outright, expect prices to soar.Agreed

So Toshiba makes HD DVD with no financial motivation... Unlike evil Sony, Toshiba's HD DVD is license free! Right... And, Warner doesn't get paid for every DVD sold with the DVD Logo on it.

Sometimes I wonder where you guys come up with these delusions.

fitprod

At this point, I think the only explanation is that the HD-DVD camp is inserting subliminal messages in its movies. ;)

Honestly, visiting the HD-DVD board (yes, I know, I shouldn't) sometimes feels like stepping into the 4th dimension.

Save universal above all.
Universal has probably laid down more HD releases than most other studios - so comparing it to Fox is rather funny.

Originally Posted by dapole
"Wouldn't this http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=25310 have a slight impact on Blu-rays supposed win if Target, the company suing won?"

That lawsuit will impact BD, HD-DVD, and DVD. I don't see why it would hurt BD any more or less than HD.

Target claims that company founder Han Nee developed the reflective silver alloy material which is used as a component of most DVDs produced today.Yeah, and besides lawsuits like that get filed against Sony and other major companies all the time. Suggesting a lawsuit like this will amount to anything serious is tantamount to spreading blatant fear, uncertainty, and doubt for no reason. Most of these lawsuits get thrown out, dismissed, settled on quickly, reversed, have no bearing in evidence, etc ,etc.

People need to forget about things like lawsuits to provide some kind of Trojan Horse of negativity for a product. That kind of ill will, IMO, shouldn't be supported anyway. I mean, what? - we are hoping that a wonderful company that (at the end of the day) has given us years of great entertainment should be completely destroyed because some evil judge sees fit to find merit in a frivolous lawsuit?

Please, don't tell me that's the level that the war has reduced us to...

Very sensible post, I wished more felt the way you did, and were willing to act the same way.

We need one format now. I chose right, but only because I waited until after the PS3 was released to choose a format. If I had picked the wrong format, I would be disappointed, but mostly happy that the damn format war is over.

This signals the end of the war, and I hope the endgame is soon and we can all put our passion into furthering the winning HD format, Blu-ray, instead of fighting with each other.

Let's hope more people start to think this way..

Universal has probably laid down more HD releases than most other studios - so comparing it to Fox is rather funny.

Get em on BD.

Universal has probably laid down more HD releases than most other studios - so comparing it to Fox is rather funny.

I thought he was referring to the large number of Universal releases due to the war, I may have misread.

When will we know which stores are going to carry the blu-ray discs? I am hoping a CT store near me does!

My copy of King Kong on HD-DVD doesn't have TrueHD for a very good reason... lack of space.

This "30 gigs" is enough argument just doesn't wash.


I've been saying this ever since BD50 became a reality and we got a quality sounding release like Black Hawk Down which was the most impressive surround sound I have ever heard, matching the way I felt when I first heard uncompressed audio from Top Gun on Laserdisc way back when...

I've been saying this ever since BD50 became a reality and we got a quality sounding release like Black Hawk Down which was the most impressive surround sound I have ever heard, matching the way I felt when I first heard uncompressed audio from Top Gun on Laserdisc way back when...

Something is behind Certain (hddvd) people dismissing the capacity and bandwidth advantage of BD.

What a load!!! Can't you BD folks get the picture? You are one side of an EXTREMELY SMALL current user base that amounts to a nearly insignificant portion of the video media landscape at this time. The rest of us stuck on the sidelines never got a chance to have our voices heard. We just got the expensive option force fed to us by Sony. And you expect us to rejoice? Yahoo, the war is over, everyone lost...

Extreme, but I share the basic sentiment. For consumers with modest means, a Blu-Ray win this early is a set-back. Sony is already sticking its financial neck out to price the S300 at $500. I guess we all get to sit on our hands and wait a while for the magical ~$200 figure. I'm not an HD-DVD zealot by any means, but from a value standpoint, HD-DVD is more compelling.

I feel sorry for those who in trying to save some money (and could only afford either a BD player OR a HD DVD player) chose HD DVD. That investment will soon go into the toilet as the few new releases they were getting will dry up. Then, they will have to buy Blu Ray in the near future to conitnue enjoying new HD content.

Oh, what heartfelt sentiment. May I remind you that some of us secured an A2 for $9 more than an Oppo 981 primarily because of it's excellent, non-Faroudja chip upscaling. Also, little known fact- HD-DVD discs and hardware don't actually self-destruct if the format eventually does fail. I've been waiting for my SACD/DVD-A collection to magically vanish, too. So far, nothing.

Wow...You fan boys are highlarious every day each format puts another nail into each formats coffin. What I don't understand is why anyone would want a single format to dominate the marketplace?? Then we will be forced to accept low quality transfers and high prices. Right now, while there is no winner in actuality the consumer is the winner because prices continue to drop on hardware and software for both formats. I hope this war goes on forever!!!

If BD was less expensive, I would have no problem owning a BD player, but I disagree with Sony's attitude towards consumer electronics consumers. Sony considers themselves the 'Mercedes' of consumer electronics, and if people can't afford their overpriced products, so be it. The market price is set by Sony for BD players, so any other respectable firm (Samsung) is going to follow the same pricing guidelines. Question: Could you have afforded either a Samsung or a Panasonic BD player at launch or now? Because I seem to remember that those two companies released their players first before Sony.

I look forward to the cheapo chinese players. They're coming. There's even one OEM from Japan. :)

BD is only better as a media storage format. As a computer disk drive. As far as video quality and audio quality, it has nothing over HD-DVD. Looks like you haven't read the BD reviews lately. And really, BD is better as recordable medium and a HD optical disc format.

HD-DVD is better for the consumer, there are no license fees associated with it unlike Sony's proprietary Bluray. Care to elaborate on the license fees associated with BD? Give us three to start with.


fuad

My copy of King Kong on HD-DVD doesn't have TrueHD for a very good reason... lack of space.

This "30 gigs" is enough argument just doesn't wash.

Gah, stop this stupid argument already. It has been established months ago that the reason TrueHD was excluded was not due to space, but due to Universal's love affair with DD+. They haven't embraced TrueHD in any way shape or form, they just LOVE their lossy codecs. Damn Universal.

Now, perhaps King Kong would not have any macroblocking if it was on a Blu-ray 50. If you are gonna bash Kong for sacrificing features to fit on 30 gigs, bash the picture, not the sound.

And why is this a sticky?? :rolleyes:

Holy Cow! This change is to be effective in July!! They will be carrying over 170 Blu-ray titles in the stores to start with. Way to go Blockbuster!

http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/18/news/companies/blockbuster_bluray/?postversion=2007061807 My GOD! 170 titles! That's even crazier then I expected. The trial stores have about 25 for each format right now. This is absolutely a HUGE, CRAZY, and ASSERTIVE move on the part of Blockbuster.

It speaks to what I said in another post when wondering just how seriously Blockbuster will take this move...

QUOTED: "For example, if Blockbuster only has one small 6 by 6 section of their entire store dedicated to BD media - then you will be shocked at just how quickly people will be content to completely ignore it like it doesn't even exist. HOWEVER, if each of these Blockbuster stores has over 100 titles, with all the new releases streaming in regular, and a ton of in-store promotion, etc - then awareness and interest in BD will go through the roof."

This is very good info - thanks for this.

So my estimate of 25% of their revenue was even lower than the 60% actual for non-rental revenue.

And BB has 2.2 billion of the US 7.5 billion market. That makes a lot more sense.

Puts things into much better perspective...
I'm surprised nobody even bothered to look at the outrageous claim that "BB owns 76% of the market share" comments that have been posted several times in this thread.

I can assure you this is far from the case.

Lets look at real facts and not "AVS forum Facts":

Fact # 1: The 7.5 Billion was for US consumer spending: DVD rental transactions.
Fact # 2: The 5.5B revenues is accounting for worldwide sales. BBI has thousands of stores outside the US. 34.5% of revenue was generated in non-US stores.
Fact # 3: The actual world wide rental revenue for BBI (not counting late fees, merchandise, and PRP sales) was 3.34B.
Fact # 4: Therefore the actual rental revenue for the US was roughly $2.2B.
Fact # 5: This number includes video game rentals. We don't know if this is included in the "DVD rental transactions" from the article.

The same scrutiny will need to be applied to Netflix and Movie Gallery if you want an apples to apples comparison.

Clearly the 76% number is a bunch of BS, but has already been adopted as fact by a few people with blue glasses on.

Kinda sad really.

Wow...You fan boys are highlarious every day each format puts another nail into each formats coffin. What I don't understand is why anyone would want a single format to dominate the marketplace?? Then we will be forced to accept low quality transfers and high prices. Right now, while there is no winner in actuality the consumer is the winner because prices continue to drop on hardware and software for both formats. I hope this war goes on forever!!!

Imagine if there were 2 different broadcast TV standards, and you basically had to pick one or the other. 3/4 picked one, and the other 1/4 isn't compatible.

Would you want them to standardize? Or just buy 2 TV's and 2 Tivos and so on and swap em all?

I don’t reply (or even open) P.M.’s that carry certain inflammatory subject titles.You should reconsider your policy, when the PM comes from a moderator. Or would you rather keep insulting AVS and its moderators at the other forum? Your call.

I'm not an HD-DVD zealot by any means, but from a value standpoint, HD-DVD is more compelling.That's when you don't think what movies you can watch on that player unless you are an unusual Universal fan.

I regularly visit my downtown Houston store, and the HD-DVD's are always empty. I question if it's the fact that there is only like 2 copies of each movie, or if it's more popular. I see more copies of BD movies sitting on the shelves than I do HD.

I have it on good word that theft of both HD and BD has been a problem for some blockbusters as it has been for mine. The discs now come it these huge oversized plastic cases they remove at the counter. This could explain it as this was a problem at my BB. When I asked why they never get returns...I got they were never rented in the first place.

Admittedly, there are more BD titles to chose from, but it's approximately a 5 to 4 ratio. Hollywood video has a 2 to 1 set up, and Blockbuster is more like 3 to 2, either way, both stores are giving more shelf space to BD.

Blockbuster also doesn't release as many HD-DVD titles as it does BD. New movies come out and they carry the new BD titles, but all new HD titles remain unseen.

I feel they were biased before the test stores even started carrying either format.

I also agree that they may be shooting themselves in the foot. Toshiba units were selling like crazy during this recent $100 off promotion. The demand for HD has just increased alot, but Blockbuster is closing that door intentionally. Also they're putting there only advantage over Netflix (in store return/re-rent) in jeopardy.


You have to understand hear that HD-DVD only has Universal as an exclusive. HD-DVD is also the first of the formats to lose some kind of important backing in the public eye. Some might not think this is big news. But 14 pages on a topic that is less than 24 hours shows that it is indeed BIG NEWS.

Perhaps you are seeing more BD because there is actually more of them to be had. I know that in my store it appears that both sections are rather inactive....With about the same appearing out on both sides.

Ever drive past a furniture store and see a going out of business sign? That is what, in my opinion, is happening with these massive discounts. Clear the stock and close up shop.

I also think that your assessment of Blockbuster shooting themselves in the foot is quite foolish. Yes a few people leaving does matter. But the percentages will be so miniscule that Blockbuster will probably save money. They will save money because they will not be buying duplicate stock of HD-DVDs. Like it or not Warner exclusives will go format neutral by Winter. Why have 3 different version of Blood Diamon taking up shelf space??? And why pay to even offer the HD-DVD if your not making any business off of it....Which this decision indicates. Blockbuster was ready to lose costumers over this. In the long run it makes financial sense for them to simply lose the 500 or so people that use it exclusively for HD-DVD rentals.

I suggest if you own a HD-DVD player, start demanding titles being carried in stores that don't offer BD yet, and for those stores that do carry high def formats, demand MORE HD-DVD titles.

Stand alone player owners are the silent majority (When i say stand alone, i mean HD-DVD, because the PS3 is a toy, and BD stand alone sales are dismal). We enjoy our format, but we're not fanboy about it. Sony has fanboys on their side, loud obnoxious individuals who get their opinions heard. Most rentals are going to PS3 owners anyways, and we all know the video game console war is inundated with fanboys. HD-DVD supporters need to speak up and demand content if we want to protect our investments.

Now if I had a financial investment in HD-DVD(Which I do 2 times over) I would be saying what you are saying. RAH RAH protest!! WE WANT HD-DVD....The sad fact is there aren't enough people to make a difference. You can try but in the end it really won't matter. The market will dictate the winner....and it clearly is with this move by blockbuster.

Another point of yours that just comes off plain odd is the PS3 is a toy. Have you used one? It is a powerful and awesome media center. The Toshiba A1 used to be my favorite piece of electronics. But I now find the PS3 is great at everything it claims to do. It receives so much use in my home. Between DVDs, BDS, SACDs, MPEG movies and tv show records, mp3s, and videogames, the thing is truely a trojan horse. Although the attack was more than just BD!

If BD was less expensive, I would have no problem owning a BD player, but I disagree with Sony's attitude towards consumer electronics consumers. Sony considers themselves the 'Mercedes' of consumer electronics, and if people can't afford their overpriced products, so be it. The market price is set by Sony for BD players, so any other respectable firm (Samsung) is going to follow the same pricing guidelines. I look forward to the cheapo chinese players.

Well they deffinately don't sell their stuff at Mercedes Benz prices. They consider that at somepoint a company needs to turn a profit. BD players will be hitting $399! The competition is close. I'd be willing to make the extra $100 investment to futureproof my player.

BD is only better as a media storage format. As a computer disk drive. As far as video quality and audio quality, it has nothing over HD-DVD.

Yeah I used to think the same thing. But it has more space? It is superior to HD-DVD in this regard. And it can do audio and video just as well as HD-DVD or arguably better. Isn't that what we truely want? The best that we can get at a good price point(below $500 in my mind).

HD-DVD owners need to support their investments, they need to speak up, they need to show their friends that BD isn't better, only more expensive, they need to demand more content from their media providers (stores that rent/sell). I'm sick of walking into Best Buy and not having a full selection of movies. I want to be able to go pick up a movie if i like it, i don't want to wait a week for Amazon.com to deliver it.

But it is better. The technology is the future. It has more storage space on the same sized optical media. It is clearly better. That is a fact. The software is also cheaper or on par with HD-DVD. I can understand you dont want to lose money on your investment but do yourself a favor...sell and cut your loses(that's what I'm doing)....and do it before the market floods late this summer.

HD-DVD is better for the consumer, there are no license fees associated with it unlike Sony's proprietary Bluray. If HD-DVD goes away, and BD wins outright, expect prices to soar.

Really why?? VHS went away and DVD prices dropped?? That logic makes no sense. They want to sell the stuff. They aren't going to suddenly raise prices. Stup the FUD and trying to scare people with propoganda. And can you give me hard facts comparing the licensing fees of both formats? (cause both of them).

I'm glad I bought the Toshiba HD-A2 for 300, it's not a huge investment, and i love the picture quality. But I'll be happy if a new format kicks both of their butts, because this dual format quagmire is detrimental to the widespread adaptation of High definition in American homes.

So no BD but any other format is fine? What kind of thought is that? I'm interested in what improvements you are looking for? I'm glad you agree this format war is dumb. Cause I do too.

My dad has a high def tv without a built in NTSC tuner, and he thinks his picture looks great. I can't force him to buy an NTSC tuner, I can't force him to buy a next gen player, but if more of his friends had the technology, he would adopt a format as well.

Currently i'm pro HD-DVD, thats obvious, I'm not ANTI-Bluray, i'm anti-Sony. If a unit becomes available that is inexpensive and meets my needs (price to capability ratio) I'll buy a player if the market is really leaning that way. In the meantime, i'm happy with my HD-DVD.


He can we become anti-format or label or company? Unless they are doing something thats morally off I just don't get this boycott. I'd say that you should jump on that BD bandwagon sooner rather than later. The time is near. The end is close....I can smell it!!

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/06/18/bluray-blockbuster-hddvd-markets-equity-cx_er_0618markets06.html

"...

Blockbuster will continue to rent the HD DVD titles it already offers and may expand its HD DVD inventory in the future but, for now, the company has placed all its chips on Blu-ray.

..."

Seems to indicate that the existing HD DVD stores won't be getting any new HD DVD titles in stock any time soon. Probably true for their online service then also?

I guess the BD folks can rent, while the HD-DVD group buys. If Blockbuster keeps its track record going, they'll have like 2 discs per store...maybe. It would be interesting to see the revenue for the studios on rent vs buy. Sure, BD has the option, but as PS3 is their "leader" those owners will rent.

Funny, for me, gaming is higher up on the list than the movies now (due to this war). And as an Xbox 360 / HD-DVD add-on owner, it's clear which console is the winner. As others have mentioned, the only reason why BD is doing so well right now is all the PS3 owners that don't have games to play. They can't let their investment sit there. And when the games come, I can bet you that money will go to the games, and the movies will be on the backburner.

With that said, if BD is the winner, then fine. I'll pick up a player. Then my buying habits will pick back up to where they were before the HD formats were put in place. Between what I've seen of the two formats (video and audio-wise), I wish HD-DVD would come out the winner, but will be happy when there's just one format. Double-dipping sucks.

Wow...You fan boys are highlarious every day each format puts another nail into each formats coffin. What I don't understand is why anyone would want a single format to dominate the marketplace??


Here are some reasons:

SACD, DVD-Audio, Betamax.

Originally Posted by Monty22001
Imagine if there were 2 different broadcast TV standards, and you basically had to pick one or the other.

You mean like 1080i, 1080p, 720p, 720i... Thank you FCC.

Back on topic :p

fitprod

I think this just opens the door for Wal-Mart to begin renting HD DVDs in their stores to support their 2 million new Chinese HD DVD players that will be available this fall. Blockbuster can go the way of Toys-R-Us. :)

You mean like 1080i, 1080p, 720p, 720i... Thank you FCC.

Back on topic :p

fitprod

Funny, any 720p or 1080i/1080p TV can play all those!!!!

You were.. saying? eh? I meant incompatible standards like BD/hddvd..


Why'd you even bother to respond with that?

I thought he was referring to the large number of Universal releases due to the war, I may have misread.
Actually, my original statement was that there have been a lot more releases on both BD and HD formats due to the competition, than there would likely have otherwise been (use D-Theater as an example).

I said "save Fox", meaning excepting Fox, who has stopped releasing for other reasons (not competition).

Then he said "save Universal", in reply, which implied that Universal had not released enough.

I guess we'll never know what was meant, but let's move on.

Something is behind Certain (hddvd) people dismissing the capacity and bandwidth advantage of BD.
Ooh, a plot! :) Goody!

Actually, my original statement was that there have been a lot more releases on both BD and HD formats due to the competition, than there would likely have otherwise been (use D-Theater as an example).

I said "save Fox", meaning excepting Fox, who has stopped releasing for other reasons (not competition).

Then he said "save Universal", in reply, which implied that Universal had not released enough.

I guess we'll never know what was meant, but let's move on.

I'll tell you what I meant. Why do you not support Universal going neutral...

And why is this a sticky?? :rolleyes:
I am assuming lots of organized BD posters sent in messages asking for it to be stickied. The same folks who often state that AVS is biased against bluray... ;)

Ooh, a plot! :) Goody!

Well, I'm asking all out. Why? Why do you support hddvd when it's inferior technically and selling less?

If you can't answer that flat out, yes.. It starts to look just like a plot.

Imagine if there were 2 different broadcast TV standards, and you basically had to pick one or the other. 3/4 picked one, and the other 1/4 isn't compatible.

Would you want them to standardize? Or just buy 2 TV's and 2 Tivos and so on and swap em all?
Deisel versus petrol?

BD has never been that close in prices. Only the recent 499 player has even come close. BD has been on average $200 or more, not $100.

You might be comparing similar products, but Toshiba was smart to provide players that don't offer 1080p because a large number of consumers purchased HDTVs in years leading up to 2007, when 1080i and 720p were predominant.

I have a 720p television, I sit approx 8 feet from it, science has shown that for a 42" tv, at 8 feet, you can't tell the difference between 1080 and 720, and there is mathematical proof.

I'm happy with my 720p television. If BD were to release a 300 player that forgoes Dolby TrueHD and 1080p, i would buy it. So let me get this straight. You're saying that for next generation optical disc, Toshiba made the right call by providing 720p and 1080i HD video?
To this I say...
WHOA NELLY! :confused: :eek: :confused: :eek: :confused: :eek:

Now I'm CERTAIN not every HD-DVD supporter even supports your argument there. If they do, well that is SCARY.

The Studio support will waver if Toshiba keeps up this pricing war. How are they going to keep up this pricing war though? They've already reduced their HD-DVD player sales estimate to 1million for 2007, down from 1.8 million.

Large Name Brand firm have a higher marginal cost than HD firms, and they can't win in a price war. So you're saying Toshiba should just go selling HD-DVD players all by themselves and nobody else can or should? At US$250, is there a real incentive to get into the HD-DVD business?


fuad

Well, I'm asking all out. Why? Why do you support hddvd when it's inferior technically and selling less?

If you can't answer that flat out, yes.. It starts to look just like a plot.He's now on putting all his HD DVD equipments for a fire sale at eBay so he has to maintain HD DVD still has a chance for now. ;)

The PR mentions Spiderman on BR? Has this actually been released?

Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma/me
"So all the above things considered, it looks like the mainstream will be very willing to make the upgrade to HD physical media if there is generally one clear and healthy format out there.

I mean, especially as time passes and new prices/hardware/content/HDTVs start making "old SD DVD" look like ass."You mean like Laserdisc? I realise there is a lot of sword waving and pistols firing in the air in this thread now by the Blu-ray faithful, but I bought into another format that was sort of......just like this. Offered better video and sound quality, expensive players, expensive media. And I heard all the same things about price coming down and so on. Years later I have 2 large boxes of laserdiscs and a player I haven't hooked up in that long sitting in my basement storage. And it's only sitting there because I haven't called Goodwill to pick them up. Good point, yes. But naturally you already know this situation is quite different as well. LD didn't have a small/attractive form factor, a major game system as a trojan horse, a connection to the popular trend of HD/flat-panel TVs, a connection with the PC storage world, didn't have the widespread level of availablity/visibility/promotion that this has, wasn't coming off the SD DVD/movie buying boom in general, etc, etc.

I mean, you know all this already. I'm just saying. Besides I tend to want to be and stay real positive. :D - Cross your fingers with me, okay! :o

The PR mentions Spiderman on BR? Has this actually been released?

no. although it is widely believed that sony will street and date it this wednesday (launch anniversary).

Originally Posted by Monty22001
Funny, any 720p or 1080i/1080p TV can play all those!!!!

You were.. saying? eh? I meant incompatible standards like BD/hddvd..

Why'd you even bother to respond with that?

Yes they can, but it shouldn't have come to that, much like this format war. The FCC should have made one format (1080P) standard, but too many lobbist for the networks and independents bitched. Which means we're headed for a minor cluster(insert word of choice) around 2009.

Fortunately it will not affect HD Discs... Or at least it shouldn't.

But that's a discussion for another time at this point.

fitprod

http://www.forbes.com/markets/2007/06/18/bluray-blockbuster-hddvd-markets-equity-cx_er_0618markets06.html

"...

Blockbuster will continue to rent the HD DVD titles it already offers and may expand its HD DVD inventory in the future but, for now, the company has placed all its chips on Blu-ray.

..."

Seems to indicate that the existing HD DVD stores won't be getting any new HD DVD titles in stock any time soon. Probably true for their online service then also?
Absolute FUD.

They will continue their online presence as before, with new titles as before.

Their press release also indicates continued support at the 250 launch stores.

However, in truth, I have found Netflix to have much better support for both BD and HD anyway, as well as faster service and turnaround.

Now that Blockbuster is sending it's only advantage down the urinal, I think Netflix is the best game in town. Of course, some other chain may announce they will stocvk HD DVD in B&Ms also, to counter BB...

The consumer spoke with their dollar.

More BD rentals at Blockbuster.
More Blu-ray disc sales every week since December 24th, 2006.

The consumer has spoken, it's the jaded HD DVD fans that will be doing the suffering. The public will get to enjoy lossless audio and high bit rate encodes; the consumer wins.

Dead on as usual

Yes they can, but it shouldn't have come to that, much like this format war. The FCC should have made one format (1080P) standard, but too many lobbist for the networks and independents bitched. Which means we're headed for a minor cluster(insert word of choice) around 2009.
fitprod

Yeah, 1080p would've been best, if they hadn't decided this in 1997 or so. Back then 1080i/720p was futuristic. This is a good reason why we shouldn't go for the LOWER TECH solution when offered.

There are already multiple TV delivery standards - multiple sattelite providers, cable....FioS. All incompatible all have some unique content. HD media is not unique in any way - only the politics is.

Absolute FUD.

They will continue their online presence as before, with new titles as before.

Their press release also indicates continued support at the 250 launch stores.

However, in truth, I have found Netflix to have much better support for both BD and HD anyway, as well as faster service and turnaround.

Now that Blockbuster is sending it's only advantage down the urinal, I think Netflix is the best game in town. Of course, some other chain may announce they will stocvk HD DVD in B&Ms also, to counter BB...

I thought you were going to organize a nationwide boycott of Blockbuster and Sony and BD and everything non HD DVD/Toshiba/MS/Universal.

I am assuming lots of organized BD posters sent in messages asking for it to be stickied. The same folks who often state that AVS is biased against bluray... ;)

Or maybe the mods wanted to stop hundreds of individual threads from being started about the same thing.

No wait, yours is probably right.

For those of you considering Sony as the Evil Empire, remember that little Cell Processor in the PS3 co-developed by Sony, IBM and let me think for a second.....TOSHIBA!!! Wow, talk about cutting yourself off at the knees. You make an investment in new tecnology that will be used in a rival format war. Why shouldn't Toshiba pull out now, cut their losses, produce blu-ray players and make profits off PS3 sales, and Cell technology. I mean look how many PS3's have been sold compared to stand alond HD-DVD players and I doubt Toshiba takes any loss on PS3 sales and their investment there. Boy I love a good conspiracy if that is where everyone want's to take this.

Realize they are both the Evil Empire and in the end if you hate one company for it's consumer approach, really shouldn't you dislike them all? Go off grid, stop watching TV, the marketing thrown at you and vote with a closed wallet.

I am assuming lots of organized BD posters sent in messages asking for it to be stickied.You assume wrong. I 'stuck' it because it was significant enough to merit the action.



The same folks who often state that AVS is biased against bluray... ;)Just like the ones who say we are biased against HD DVD.

Since the volume of complaints from both camps is about the same, we feel we are unbiased.

no. although it is widely believed that sony will street and date it this wednesday (launch anniversary).

Ok thanks, strange then that BB is claiming demand for this title was one of the reasons for their decision.

I'm surprised nobody even bothered to look at the outrageous claim that "BB owns 76% of the market share" comments that have been posted several times in this thread.

I can assure you this is far from the case.

Lets look at real facts and not "AVS forum Facts":

Fact # 1: The 7.5 Billion was for US consumer spending: DVD rental transactions.
Fact # 2: The 5.5B revenues is accounting for worldwide sales. BBI has thousands of stores outside the US. 34.5% of revenue was generated in non-US stores.
Fact # 3: The actual world wide rental revenue for BBI (not counting late fees, merchandise, and PRP sales) was 3.34B.
Fact # 4: Therefore the actual rental revenue for the US was roughly $2.2B.
Fact # 5: This number includes video game rentals. We don't know if this is included in the "DVD rental transactions" from the article.

The same scrutiny will need to be applied to Netflix and Movie Gallery if you want an apples to apples comparison.

Clearly the 76% number is a bunch of BS, but has already been adopted as fact by a few people with blue glasses on.

Kinda sad really.

Thank you Numanoid101 for correcting me, I've updated my original post with your correction. :)

So can we assume that Blockbuster get a 29% marketshare (or less, if we consider videogames rental not included in the original DVD rental transactions number)?

If so, HD DVD can still retain the 71% of the rental marketshare (or more). This is definitely good news. :D

You are trying to paint the picture of Blockbuster beingin its last chance to stay alive from going bankrupt. Having over 70% of the market share they are far from that position. And this re-organization of the company is long over-due considering how well Netflix has done.. Yes, and people seem to be forgetting that this move will actually DRAW people to go into Blockbuster stores, use Blockbuster more often. I mean I know stingy and offended HD DVD people won't but normal humans, PS3 owners, potential HD fans, and current neutral/BD supporters will flock to local Blockbuster stores to test out or get their quick fix in an HD format. This combined with the way that the Blockbuster Total Access program works and whatever else they've got planned goes - could make going to Blockbuster B&M stores the "way to rent" again. (if it wasn't "the way to rent already" - remember 76% of market share, folks)

Well, I'm asking all out. Why? Why do you support hddvd when it's inferior technically and selling less?

If you can't answer that flat out, yes.. It starts to look just like a plot.
I've stated my reasons for preferring HD DVD many times in other threads.

At the risk of going off-topic, I will answer your question, since you have pushed it twice - but let's NOT debate it here, as it is not the place.

1) Players have more standard features as mandatory:
a) TruHD decoding
b) DD+ decoding
c) Network ports
d) Dual stream decoding for PiP
e) Full interactive language that supports Internet access and PiP, plus other features

2) Players generally half the price, in all the various categories, of the competing BD player options.

3) Almost all titles released on HD DVD are using VC1, which is a fantastic codec. Most releases have class leading quality which makes them easy to accept as keepers.

4) Most releases on BD are in Mpeg - close to 70%, in fact. The quality is variable, and not what I expect or want from a next-gen purchase. While more releases are now arriving as AVC encodes, these are still not the majority of what is available on the BD format.

5) HD DVD delivered on quality, not talk.

6) There are more releases that I would buy on HD DVD than on BD.

There, that's my answer, now back on topic?

Absolute FUD.

They will continue their online presence as before, with new titles as before.

Their press release also indicates continued support at the 250 launch stores.

However, in truth, I have found Netflix to have much better support for both BD and HD anyway, as well as faster service and turnaround.

Now that Blockbuster is sending it's only advantage down the urinal, I think Netflix is the best game in town. Of course, some other chain may announce they will stocvk HD DVD in B&Ms also, to counter BB...


You can't get much faster turnaround than walking into a Blockbuster after returning your Blu-Ray movie and picking out a new one..

I've stated my reasons for preferring HD DVD many times in other threads.

At the risk of going off-topic, I will answer your question, since you have pushed it twice - but let's NOT debate it here, as it is not the place.

1) Players have more standard features as mandatory:
a) TruHD decoding
b) DD+ decoding
c) Network ports
d) Dual stream decoding for PiP
e) Full interactive language that supports Internet access and PiP, plus other features

2) Players generally half the price, in all the various categories, of the competing BD player options.

3) Almost all titles released on HD DVD are using VC1, which is a fantastic codec. Most releases have class leading quality which makes them easy to accept as keepers.

4) Most releases on BD are in Mpeg - close to 70%, in fact. The quality is variable, and not what I expect or want from a next-gen purchase. While more releases are now arriving as AVC encodes, these are still not the majority of what is available on the BD format.

5) HD DVD delivered on quality, not talk.

6) There are more releases that I would buy on HD DVD than on BD.

There, that's my answer, now back on topic?


Most of that is opinion or out of date. So in general, I'll assume you don't care about technical matters.

The PR mentions Spiderman on BR? Has this actually been released?
Not yet, but the fact that BB mentions it in their press release over this BD support thing is further evidence that they have made some sort of financially advantageous deal with Sony in return, IMO.

I'm sure their competitiors and the FTC would love to know more... :)

Originally Posted by Eric_Connelly:
"Its TV...its not the solution to world peace."People watching TV don't kill people. People NOT watching TV kill people. Hahaha, LMFAO.

You assume wrong. I 'stuck' it because it was significant enough to merit the action.



Just like the ones who say we are biased against HD DVD.

Since the volume of complaints from both camps is about the same, we feel we are unbiased.
Fair enough on BOTH counts :)

FWIW, I don't "bash" AVS on other forums or my site - I think most folks here do a very good job of moderating, sometime under very challenging conditions.

I've stated my reasons for preferring HD DVD many times in other threads.

At the risk of going off-topic, I will answer your question, since you have pushed it twice - but let's NOT debate it here, as it is not the place.

1) Players have more standard features as mandatory:
a) TruHD decoding
b) DD+ decoding
c) Network ports
d) Dual stream decoding for PiP
e) Full interactive language that supports Internet access and PiP, plus other features

2) Players generally half the price, in all the various categories, of the competing BD player options.

3) Almost all titles released on HD DVD are using VC1, which is a fantastic codec. Most releases have class leading quality which makes them easy to accept as keepers.

4) Most releases on BD are in Mpeg - close to 70%, in fact. The quality is variable, and not what I expect or want from a next-gen purchase. While more releases are now arriving as AVC encodes, these are still not the majority of what is available on the BD format.

5) HD DVD delivered on quality, not talk.

6) There are more releases that I would buy on HD DVD than on BD.

There, that's my answer, now back on topic?

Blu-Ray can do all of what you talk about and more. I does it all with more bandwidth and more space to work with. Your argument of support only holds water back the first month of Blu-Ray's launch...Ever since the Ps3 was released, there isn't anything you mention that Blu-Ray can't do better...

However you are right rdjam, let's get back on topic. Blockbuster Video has really blown this format war wide open with a direct hit at the heart of HD-DVD.

I think this just opens the door for Wal-Mart to begin renting HD DVDs in their stores to support their 2 million new Chinese HD DVD players that will be available this fall. Blockbuster can go the way of Toys-R-Us. :)
Didn't Wal-Mart deny this rumor?


fuad

Maybe I'm just an anal collector, but can someone please explain to me why you wouldn't rather buy the content? If you have the money to invest in one of these techs, you're obviously an avid movie-lover. So why wouldn't you want to build your own collection?

I honestly don't get the renting thing, I like to own my toys LOL. Hey, I'm like you - but most EVERYBODY else absolutely is NOT. Just think about how all your friends and family do things regarding movies. Yeah, it's nutty but true. Besides even us "owning-advocates" love to rent to be able to know "what we want to own".

Other methods of HD acquisition and storage, including downloads and non-mechanical storage are the future. End of story.

Not my future, and not my story. Even when the bandwidth problems are solved there is long way for software companies (and the studios) to go before I would ever be convinced that a download is something I own in the same sense that a disk is. And if any company(s) try to migrate customers to non-media based movies against our will (like say with a stalemate in HD optical media) they will rightfully incur a backlash from like-minded consumers.

My GOD! 170 titles! That's even crazier then I expected. The trial stores have about 25 for each format right now. This is absolutely a HUGE, CRAZY, and ASSERTIVE move on the part of Blockbuster.
170 titles, say 5 copies per title in 1400 stores. That's 1,190,000 BDs.


fuad

Most of that is opinion or out of date. So in general, I'll assume you don't care about technical matters.
2 of the 11 points are opinion (the last two). The rest are fact, and are not out of date, either.

Well, this thread has been blu-ray'd out, and I assume now that the hddvd people will come on and start to push how this all doesn't matter.

Since the volume of complaints from both camps is about the same, we feel we are unbiased.

Lol, fair enough :)

I purchased an HD DVD player

I want to say THANK YOU to Blockbuster

They have started what will quickly become a landslide and kill one of the HD formats - my format.

But I'm actually happy.

This format war has been good for nobody. Certainly not us, not the retailers, the studios or even the two competing companies.

The sooner it's over and one prevails the better chance we will have of seeing a thriving disc based HD system rather than tow that are irrelevent.

So thank you Blockbuster. I chose the wrong format but never purchased any discs. Hopefully, Netflix, Best Buy, Wal Mart and Universal will all join quickly to put us all out of our misery.

Rob

This may very well be the best post I have ever read on AVS.

/salute

2 of the 11 points are opinion (the last two). The rest are fact, and are not out of date, either.

The rest of your points are.. about extras that are going to be finalized soon, and most people that have PS3's won't worry about..

:)

We love to use the term "format war" at these forums.

So here is my analogy as to what has happened:

Up until now the armaments being used were machine guns and 105mm howitzers. Now the BDA via BB successfully launched a missle at HD DVD and scored a direct hit. It was not a nuclear bomb - but it did a lot of damage.

Nuclear Bomb - Wal-Mart announces they will only carry BD - they did just ink a deal with Sony for sales of their LCD's. Could BD be far behind?

Oh and this story is flying around he world. It is already on CNN and many news oriented websites and I believe some newspapers already have the story.

When Sony makes a claim - everyone goes "big deal" or laughs. When Toshiba makes a claim - everyone goes "big deal" - just two warring companies "tossing" at each other - good drama

But when BB says they will only carry BD - everyone notices and all are saying the same thing - "this is a big deal."

Oh and for the 100 of you that are going to cancel your BB membership or continue to ignore BB . . . . .

"Big Deal!" LOL! Yep!

I'm an HD DVD guy but hey, it's all sooooo true.

One thing is for sure thanks to Blockbuster...


A stalemate sure isn't going to occur between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.. Fighting? Yes it will.. Will HD-DVD have one last surge up its sleave? I hope so... Is the format war over? Not yet, but it is much close than before....

So long y'all. Get back to me when I can get a quality BD player for under $200. Of course by then my kids will be in college and...oh well, you get the picture.

170 titles, say 5 copies per title in 1400 stores. That's 1,190,000 BDs.


fuad


I don't think these will be counted as part of Nielsen Videotrack, even though the number is impressive.

Blockbuster feels very confident that Blu-ray will win. :)

My copy of King Kong on HD-DVD doesn't have TrueHD for a very good reason... lack of space.

This "30 gigs" is enough argument just doesn't wash.

Actually, it doesn't have TrueHD because it was never sposed to get it ... confirmed by several insiders ... will this incorrect talking point ever disappear? :rolleyes:

I don't think these will be counted as part of Nielsen Videotrack, even though the number is impressive.

Blockbuster feels very confident that Blu-ray will win. :)

they won't.

One thing is for sure thanks to Blockbuster...


A stalemate sure isn't going to occur between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray.. Fighting? Yes it will.. Will HD-DVD have one last surge up its sleave? I hope so... Is the format war over? Not yet, but it is much close than before....

Any 'surge' left will prolong the format war. At this point, why is that a good thing whatsoever?

Blockbuster comes up with a business re-org every 6 months or so :D

Here is their quarterly statements - last Q they lost money!

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/is?s=BBI


You can also look at their cash flow statement and see that BBI is borrowing money to run their operations. Their annual revenue has also declined for the last 3 years. These are exactly opposite of Netflix!

So, IMO this is an example of poor management, making poor decisions and slowly running the company to the ground. JMHO.

I think plazman is right on here. All he's saying with this post is that Blockbuster is a poorly managed behemoth of a company. They make money in spite of themselves due to sheer size. This announcement also gets them in the news and gets them a little bit of free press. They have a history of poor customer treatment and dopey business decisions.

Originally Posted by Supermans
You are trying to paint the picture of Blockbuster beingin its last chance to stay alive from going bankrupt. Having over 70% of the market share they are far from that position. And this re-organization of the company is long over-due considering how well Netflix has done..

Yes, and people seem to be forgetting that this move will actually DRAW people to go into Blockbuster stores, use Blockbuster more often. I mean I know stingy and offended HD DVD people won't but normal humans, PS3 owners, potential HD fans, and current neutral/BD supporters will flock to local Blockbuster stores to test out or get their quick fix in an HD format. This combined with the way that the Blockbuster Total Access program works and whatever else they've got planned goes - could make going to Blockbuster B&M stores the "way to rent" again. (if it wasn't "the way to rent already" - remember 76% of market share, folks)

Again, 70-76% market share is not true. Please refer to post #859 in this thread to see why. You two seem to be quoting the 70% figure most often, and it's flat out wrong.

They will continue to carry HD-DVD in blockbuster online which is what i use but will now investigate Netflix. Oh well - the blockbuster stores are nearly empty where I live anyway. My understanding is that they are losing money both in store as well as online trying to compete with Netflix - don't see how this helps them any. Why people keep mentioning this like it is relevant astounds me. Losing a little money in store and online now that Netflix has cropped up and finally offered a decent, alternative service is meaningless at the end of the day. I mean, so what? So Netflix came along and now thank god Blockbuster doesn't have A COMPLETE MONOPOLY on the renting procedures of the entire world. They have lost a little something to Netflix, yes. BUT THEY STILL CONTROL 76% of the market! And moves like this might help draw even more interest to or back to the stores. BB is a juggernaut and no amount of Netflix success is going to change that for several years, IF EVER! - I mean, c'mon, folks!

Not yet, but the fact that BB mentions it in their press release over this BD support thing is further evidence that they have made some sort of financially advantageous deal with Sony in return, IMO.

I'm sure their competitiors and the FTC would love to know more... :)

you're a little too invested in hd-dvd's future man. do you work for them or something? i would have preferred hd to win too, but as long as prices on movies get low and the feature set is similar, does it really matter which one wins?

Blu-Ray can do all of what you talk about and more. I does it all with more bandwidth and more space to work with. Your argument of support only holds water back the first month of Blu-Ray's launch...Ever since the Ps3 was released, there isn't anything you mention that Blu-Ray can't do better..."Could" or "Might"...? Most BD players cannot do what a standard HD DVD player does - still. Of course, one day...

However you are right rdjam, let's get back on topic. Blockbuster Video has really blown this format war wide open with a direct hit at the heart of HD-DVD.If Blockbuster has about 29% of the market, and they will expand BD exclsuively at 1,450 of their 1,700 owned-and-controlled stores, but not the other BB stores, then it certainly isn't a shot to the heart.
Edit: BTW - does anyone know how many Blockbuster shops there are in total? In 2004 wikipedia says they had 5,803 stores in the US, but I can't find anything more than that...

Sure, it'll be good for some PR short term, but it's not the end of the war. There will be plenty more happening on both sides yet...

Are you implying that HD DVD has more loss leading hardware than the BDA? Are you completely brainwashed

No, I'm implying that even at their lower prices they still can't make significants gains, hence it's more damning. Go back and see yourself (it was post #512).

Also how does 25GB and 50GB BD disks cost the same? At least for HD DVD combo disks cost $5 more? Magic!

And how many times do we have to cover that a loss-leading product related to consoles (PS3 and disks...there is no other loss leader products for Blu-Ray) is radically different from doing it with other CE hardware. It's normal to do so for consoles, as A) you make your money back on software sales, and B) no other manufacturer will ever make your console, so it doesn't effect the longevity of your hardware market.

With a CE media player, otoh, it's a horrible idea, and obviously unviable as a long term strategy. It's the reason other manufacturers have been so tentative to make HD DVD players, and it doesn't bode well for long-term CE interest in the format (which is what the main HD DVD backers want). It was a desperate attempt to force a stalemate in next gen media and move people to digital downloads faster, and it's failing, because consumers are, in fact, getting what they want. I apologize to those who wanted the opposite format, but you are in the minority, and that's how market forces work.

The average scores of the revies clearly show that Blu-ray is the more consistent format at delivering quality picture and audio, why would anyone want anything less?

The difference between a 3.82 and 3.94 total average score is not very compelling, in my opinion. I think we should look a little bit deeper than that. Looking at your chart, the PQ average between the two formats is almost the same. We know both PQ and SQ can vary quite a bit depending on the source. HD DVD has a lot of older catalog titles that just won't look or sound great on either HD format. From what I've read, there are VERY few cases where it is clearly demonstrated that PQ or SQ was compromised due to the bitrate or storage capacity of HD DVD.

So if you want to say BD has an "edge" in PQ or SQ, you certainly can do that based on those numbers, but for the most part the PQ and SQ of the two formats is the same. Both are great.

It's easy to say the consumer has voted with their dollars, but again that doesn't give us a complete picture. Studio exclusivity has played a HUGE role here and created a somewhat "unlevel playing field" as far as letting the consumer vote with their dollars. For better or worse, that's just the way it is.

It's too bad that there is this mindset or paradigm that there can be only one HD optical format in the end. Everyone seems so anxious to declare a winner. While I can afford to buy both a HD DVD and BD player (and I have), obviously not everyone can. It was exciting to see HD DVD players dip below $249 and bring more people into the HDM market. But I hate to see those early adopters get screwed if HD DVD continues to get hammered by studio exclusivity in addition to any retailers, CEs, or distributors such as Blockbuster choosing sides.

Bradley

btp, a winner==HD win...

Period. QED.

Format war for long == both dead.

hddvd has NO chance to win. It can only kill off Blu-ray too at this point.

They will continue to carry HD-DVD in blockbuster online which is what i use but will now investigate Netflix. Oh well - the blockbuster stores are nearly empty where I live anyway. My understanding is that they are losing money both in store as well as online trying to compete with Netflix - don't see how this helps them any. Why people keep mentioning this like it is relevant astounds me. Losing a little money in store and online now that Netflix has cropped up and finally offered a decent, alternative service is meaningless at the end of the day. I mean, so what? So Netflix came along and now thank god Blockbuster doesn't have A COMPLETE MONOPOLY on the renting procedures of the entire world. They have lost a little something to Netflix, yes. BUT THEY STILL CONTROL 76% of the market! And moves like this might help draw even more interest to or back to the stores. BB is a juggernaut and no amount of Netflix success is going to change that for several years, IF EVER! - I mean, c'mon, folks!

I think there is a very good chance there was some payment as part of this deal. (Of course I have no proof).

Just like I think there is a very good chance there are payments involved in Samsung lessening their competitive position by announcing support for a combo player months before it will be available, payments involved in BDA companies' prime positioning in big retail shops, payments involved in Universal staying exclusive, and others.

The stakes are enormous and it very well may make good business sense for the companies to invest in this way. This is business, folks.

I fully expect the HD Promotion group to find a way to counter with their own exclusives. But nevertheless this is really big for BD.

because consumers are, in fact, getting what they want. I apologize to those who wanted the opposite format, but you are in the minority, and that's how market forces work.

Consumers have yet to get anything. Can't you understand that the VAST majority of consumers have not bought into HD media yet? Only the early adopters (read 'rich kids') have gotten this stuff, and we are being prematurely handed one format without a chance to vote with our limited dollars.

I've seen the pictures of all you guys and your home theaters. Virtually no one here (except me) can possibly have incomes less than 6 figures. You are not the average 'consumer' looking forward to HD media. You fell for the marketing hype of fancy specs without concern for price like the rest of us.

We are all going to pay for your 'Who's got the bigger..." mentality. You, my dear sir, are the real minority, and you have somehow been alllowed to speak for the rest of us, the real majority.

Not likely.

"A sizeable chunk" - I can't believe you think anyone will agree with this.

If they did agree with it, they'd be right.

BBI generated over $1.4 Billion in merchandise revenue. So over 25% of it's total revenue was from this stuff.

Compared to it's actual rental revenue (3.3 billion) it is 42%.

Definitely "a sizeable chunk."

Consumers have yet to get anything. Can't you understand that the VAST majority of consumers have not bought into HD media yet? Only the early adopters (read 'rich kids') have gotten this stuff, and we are being prematurely handed one format without a chance to vote with our limited dollars.

I've seen the pictures of all you guys and your home theaters. Virtually no one here (except me) can possibly have incomes less than 6 figures. You are not the average 'consumer' looking forward to HD media. You fell for the marketing hype of fancy specs without concern for price like the rest of us.

We are all going to pay for your 'Who's got the bigger..." mentality. You, my dear sir, are the real minority, and you have somehow been alllowed to speak for the rest of us, the real majority.

It's possible to have a nice system and make a reasonable amount. I make half 6 figures..

Now, even if I made 30k, I could imagine saving an extra month to get that $100 more BD player!

I guess the BD folks can rent, while the HD-DVD group buys. If Blockbuster keeps its track record going, they'll have like 2 discs per store...maybe. It would be interesting to see the revenue for the studios on rent vs buy. Sure, BD has the option, but as PS3 is their "leader" those owners will rent. Renting gives the customers options (that evil O word). If they are unsure of buying a title, they can just rent. If they really want the title but can't afford it at the moment, they can rent.

Renting is not a loss to the studios. They do get their share. And now when more stores have more titles to rent, then more PS3 owners have the option to rent before buying. That doesn't mean they won't buy ever. And it surely doesn't mean that the sales of BD will go downhill from here.


And when the games come, I can bet you that money will go to the games, and the movies will be on the backburner. Well with Blockbuster Total Access, I hear that you can get unlimited titles per month starting at US$10? That's still a good deal for the PS3 owners.


fuad

It's too bad that there is this mindset or paradigm that there can be only one HD optical format in the end. Everyone seems so anxious to declare a winner.

Because there can only be one, if it's ever going to replace SD DVD. Like it or not, consumers simply will shy away from the issue all together if the format war is not resolved in a reasonable amount of time. This isn't VHS and Beta, where there was a totally new market; here next gen media has to replace an already entrenched video format (DVD). It can be done (DVD did it to VHS), but there is no way it can be done with two formats battling for the title of next gen optical media. Since I want to be able to buy any movie I want in HD, I am first and formost supporting the emergence of a single format, which it now appears is happening.

It was exciting to see HD DVD players dip below $249 and bring more people into the HDM market. But I hate to see those early adopters get screwed if HD DVD continues to get hammered by studio exclusivity in addition to any retailers, CEs, or distributors such as Blockbuster choosing sides.

I feel really bad for any early adopters that are on the losing side (I've spent about $1,500 on my A1 and a few dozen HD DVDs), but a lot LESS people get screwed if only one side loses. If there is a stalemate, then everyone loses, and that's worse, plus we get no HD optical media for our home theaters. Early adopters generally have some idea that they are taking a risk (I knew one or both of my players were going to be obsolete within a year or two), it's par for the course. Hopefully the winner will be obvious even to "average" consumers before the holiday season, so most people get nothing but years of enjoyment from their HD players.

The point has been made by "Tim916" that with this move by Blockbuster we can all be certain that no BD studios will ever go neutral any time soon (if ever). I'd like to re-iterate that point. I mean, it was accurately suggested by insiders and others who followed the history of SD DVD that no studio would go neutral in this war until at least Q1'09 - even if under the best of conditions for HD DVD.

The studios are just THAT stingy and "in bed" with their partners.

Now, with this BB announcement, you can be DAMN SURE that no studio is thinking about moving to HD DVD, AT ALL. Not to mention what this will make other CE manufacturers, retailers, and related companies think.

It's over, folks. It is so over.

Most sensible post here. I don't see why anyone would be happy about that, regardless if it favors their choice. I guess we no longer live in the times where/when consumers chose what they want, instead leaving it up to corporations to "tell" us what we want.

I guess this all falls exactly how Sony wanted it too. Force the format onto everyone.

Sorry my friend but please dry your eyes, the consumers choice was and is blu-ray, did you read the memo? 70 vs 30 percent. And you know what it doesn´t hurt either because Capitalism teaches us that "we" choose the best format, and in this case... it´s true... (rare thing in capitalism :-))

I've seen the pictures of all you guys and your home theaters. Virtually no one here (except me) can possibly have incomes less than 6 figures. You are not the average 'consumer' looking forward to HD media. You fell for the marketing hype of fancy specs without concern for price like the rest of us.

I make less than $30,000 a year in my academic job. Sometimes I've been able to do work for media (books and tv) because of the mediagenic nature of my subjects, and I've saved up for my home theater. It can be done, although I admit I could not have done it if I'd started a family during that time.

Just saw this story on CNN. Was weird.
One commentator played the luddite... "I still don't know how to program my VCR...!" and the guy was maybe 30 and just sounded like an idiot. You work in MEDIA, dude...!
The other just had his home theater upgraded etc...

Because there can only be one, if it's ever going to replace SD DVD. Like it or not, consumers simply will shy away from the issue all together if the format war is not resolved in a reasonable amount of time. This isn't VHS and Beta, where there was a totally new market; here next gen media has to replace an already entrenched video format (DVD). It can be done (DVD did it to VHS), but there is no way it can be done with two formats battling for the title of next gen optical media. Since I want to be able to buy any movie I want in HD, I am first and formost supporting the emergence of a single format, which it now appears is happening.




very true.
I also have a friend who used to manage a BB in Long Island (was hell, he said...)
and one of the things he dealt with dozens of time a day was the WS vs FS and confusion amongst customers. Trying to explain "those black bars!" became a trying and time consuming part of every day. Having 2 competing HD formats would only just make things more confusing.
"Are you sure you have HDdvd..?"
"I think so..." yada, yada...
"Where's ...."
"Oh, that's only in HDdvd, not BD..."
Having only one HD format in the long run would be much more efficient. Having to stock the same title in 2 formats (for neutral studios like WB) would be WAY less desirable, I can imagine...

I make less than $30,000 a year in my academic job. Sometimes I've been able to do work for media (books and tv) because of the mediagenic nature of my subjects, and I've saved up for my home theater. It can be done, although I admit I could not have done it if I'd started a family during that time.

hear hear, and I just can't believe anyone can afford an HDTV that can properly display either format and can't afford the $100 difference of players.

That.. Is shenanigans.

Consumers have yet to get anything. Can't you understand that the VAST majority of consumers have not bought into HD media yet? Only the early adopters (read 'rich kids') have gotten this stuff, and we are being prematurely handed one format without a chance to vote with our limited dollars.

I've seen the pictures of all you guys and your home theaters. Virtually no one here (except me) can possibly have incomes less than 6 figures. You are not the average 'consumer' looking forward to HD media. You fell for the marketing hype of fancy specs without concern for price like the rest of us.

We are all going to pay for your 'Who's got the bigger..." mentality. You, my dear sir, are the real minority, and you have somehow been alllowed to speak for the rest of us, the real majority.


Actually Iontyre, I would think you are in the minority of the majority. I doubt very seriously that anyone in a low to mid income bracket is in any hurry to run out and buy a new HD-DVD player even if it is $200. Considering your financial talk, I assume I am in the same boat as you and I will tell you right now that if I wasn't a game fanatic and have spent my hard earned money on a PS3, I would not buy an HD format for years, until I could get one for $100 dollars and pick up movies for 10 bucks. Actually considering where I stand financially I don't even buy movies when I can rent on Netflix for the cost of a 1 new movie.

True adoption of either format in the mass consumer is years away and it is better for their simple minds if everything is standardized when they are ready to make the change. Look how many times the FCC has pushed back HDTV regulations. For the average consumer to adopt there needs to be one format, who cares which one, one format everyone can afford and at that point 2-3 years from now either winner will be affordable.

Just saw this story on CNN. Was weird.
One commentator played the luddite... "I still don't know how to program my VCR...!" and the guy was maybe 30 and just sounded like an idiot. You work in MEDIA, dude...!
The other just had his home theater upgraded etc...

Yeah, the average CNN viewer probably doesn't know how to tie their shoes.


left... Won't say it heh.

BR supporter = " Let's make these mole hills into a nice mountain range!"
HDDVD supporters = "Let's make this mountain range into some cute mole hills!"
Format Neutralers "Yawn!"


a year from now - most likely we will see that this was an important - BUT SMALL piece of what played into the wars conclusion. This is a lot similar (in it's dynamic) to the porn endorsing HDDVD debate - except the the sides were flipped. It most probably won't seal the fate of either format- and it also most certainly is not meaningless. I often feel like these threads are like politcal pundit shows on tv. There's 2 sides, neither is rational and they both hurt my brain.

"Could" or "Might"...? Most BD players cannot do what a standard HD DVD player does - still. Of course, one day...

If Blockbuster has about 29% of the market, and they will expand BD exclsuively at 1,450 of their 1,700 owned-and-controlled stores, but not the other BB stores, then it certainly isn't a shot to the heart.

Sure, it'll be good for some PR short term, but it's not the end of the war. There will be plenty more happening on both sides yet...



Most BD players sold are PS3's, so most players can do the things you profess the BD spec requires. And if the PS3 can't do PiP yet, you and I both know it's certainly capable of it. An easy way for Sony to bring BD 1.1 into broad compatibility with most of the BD players being sold today is to make the PS3 capable. Suddenly, you've got a large portion of the BD-watching public having the features and future standalones having them, too. There goes any reason for NOT using those features on discs. The rest of the players sold equal about 100k, if we're to believe the latest BD standalone sales numbers. Not that many in the scheme of things. Moreover, it's not like the players that can't use PiP will suddenly be incapable of watching the movie, which most polls show is the reason people actually buy these movies. Do I really need to start a poll to see how many people would care if there was no PiP commentary? Last one I saw was pretty heavily in favor of "not caring."

So 100k is a drop in the bucket. And PS3's can be upgraded to have PiP along with BD Live compatibility. It has the specs and then some.

I agree that this is not the death knell of the format, but it is some bad press and from a company that is not affiliated with either format. Of course, now they're affiliated with Blu-ray, but still. Previously, they were not. I also agree with one of the posters of another thread that said this is the way Blockbuster rolled out DVD. Small test, then a larger rollout into the stores that do the most business (re: profitable) and then eventually out to the remainder once the market solidifies. This is the second stage of that. HD DVD just didn't make the cut.

30% is pretty low for a format that is selling its player below $300 and is being outpaced by a competitor at $500 or more for hardware units. Especially one that apparently has lower standalone sales and who can't consider PS3 sales as units sold "for fairness' sake." This could help explain the lower than some here expected sales for the BD market though. A lot of it could be happening as rental activity. A healthy renters market is good for a format, though, so this could be a good thing. If Blockbuster is to be believed, HD DVD has a very poor renters market, which could explain something about that "attach rate" we've been hearing about for months. Attach rate by itself is not bad, but if it's propping up disc sales, it could easily turn against them.

I'll be waiting for HD DVD to find a company willing to drop BD support. Hell, they can't even get Samsung or LG to do that and look how the BDA raked them both over the coals...

I don't think these will be counted as part of Nielsen Videotrack, even though the number is impressive. Oh I know that. That's just the number of discs Sony DADC, Panasonic and Cinram will have to replicate on top of the sell-through discs. That's a lot of discs.


fuad

I make less than $30,000 a year in my academic job. Sometimes I've been able to do work for media (books and tv) because of the mediagenic nature of my subjects, and I've saved up for my home theater. It can be done, although I admit I could not have done it if I'd started a family during that time.

It is all about choosing priorities. Some spend $40-50 a night going out clubbin or whatever, some do another hobby. Home Theaters also are much more affordable now than ever before.

BR supporter = " Let's make these mole hills into a nice mountain range!"
HDDVD supporters = "Let's make this mountain range into some cute mole hills!"
Format Neutralers "Yawn!"


a year from now - most likely we will see that this was an important - BUT SMALL piece of what played into the wars conclusion. This is a lot similar (un dynamic) to the porn endorsing HDDVD debate - except the the sides were flipped. It most probably won't seal the fate of either format- and it also most certainly is not meaningless. I often feel like these threads are like politcal pundit shows on tv. There's 2 sides, neither is rational and they both hurt my brain.

Way back I feared that. For now this is a BD triumph. And a big one. In a month, we might be back on the roller coaster SADLY. Time to just get behind BD and stop the insanity.

Just saw this story on CNN. Was weird.
One commentator played the luddite... "I still don't know how to program my VCR...!" and the guy was maybe 30 and just sounded like an idiot. You work in MEDIA, dude...!
The other just had his home theater upgraded etc...


What is this "VCR" contraption you speak of?

there is just too much energy wasted by people arguing about these formats and both sides. Even though it was their consumers purchasing descisons that lead to this move I think Blockbuster deserves credit for not trying to prolong this stupid war longer than it should more companies should just take a stand whatever format they wanna go with.

What is this "VCR" contraption you speak of?


It sounds primitive. Archaic. Perhaps its some kind of Toshiba device... :D

Not yet, but the fact that BB mentions it in their press release over this BD support thing is further evidence that they have made some sort of financially advantageous deal with Sony in return, IMO.

I'm sure their competitiors and the FTC would love to know more... :)

Look, I love HD DVD as much as most HD fanboys, but I really think this is bunk. Even if it *is* true, is Sony really doing anything that other dedicated companies wouldn't do for their products? Do you think Coke doesn't have a lucrative deal with McDonald's? XM with GMC? Come on man.

I hate Sony more than most people, but give credit where credit is due. They have been ruthless competitors, and while it looks like we'll be stuck with a less consumer-friendly medium, it's not like Tosh didn't make it easier for them. How many times have I alone complained about various QC issues with Tosh players and combo disks, let alone a slew of other people? These types of things soured even my taste with HD DVD, even though I still hope it'll be the winner.

What is this "VCR" contraption you speak of?
It's a Very Crappy Recorder.


fuad

i just want this format war to be over and have 1 format for everybody... why prolong this war... just end it and HD movies will become mainstream

Way back I feared that. For now this is a BD triumph. And a big one. In a month, we might be back on the roller coaster SADLY. Time to just get behind BD and stop the insanity.


The funny thing about the porn posts was that that nonsense about BD not having P0rnz of its very own was then repeated six months later by AICN. No doubt, he just did a search of "porn" and "HD DVD" and found that thread that was full of assumptions and misinformation.

Turns out, porn doesn't care what color your case is. ;)

Something is behind Certain (hddvd) people dismissing the capacity and bandwidth advantage of BD.

Maybe they are traitors? :rolleyes:

you're a little too invested in hd-dvd's future man. do you work for them or something? i would have preferred hd to win too, but as long as prices on movies get low and the feature set is similar, does it really matter which one wins?
So because you support BD and want it to win, there's no problem there.

But because I support HD DVD, then I must work for them?

BTW - the answer's no, which I've answered before. My work is hotels, and I have nothing to do with the CE biz, nor Sony or Toshiba.

What is this "VCR" contraption you speak of?

I believe it was seen in some cave paintings in France...

Maybe they are traitors? :rolleyes:

Alright, frankly at this point it doesn't matter how many toshibas or hddvds you buy...

Traitor was a bad term. I suppose 'irrelevent' is more accurate and less offensive.

Zip.ca rents movies in Canada. Here's what the CEO put up on the forums:


Zip Staff
Blockbuster has made the surprising announcement that it will not offer HD DVD rentals in its 1,450 US rental stores, and will instead limit hi-definition rentals in those locations only to the Blu-ray format.

This is a premature declaration of peace in the so-called format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray.

Yes, we all prefer the hi-def battle to end in favour of one of the other.

And each side has its strong points...HD is more affordable and more easily reverse compatible, possibly more robust according to some indications. Blu-ray offers greater storage; technophiles regard it as technically superior. Both sides have credible manufacturer and studio supporters.

The format fight will only end when the two sides reach agreement, or when consumers have voted with their dollars. As yet, there is no clear evidence that consumers are picking one format over the other. To the extent there is any consumer indication at all, HD DVD is doing slighlty better than Blu-ray amongst consumers(probably because HD players are more affordable than the Blu-ray one, as in half the price).

Here at Zip, as a dedicated longtail all-titles provider, we took the early position that we will offer any and all titles released in both HD DVD and Blu-ray (same as we do for the vastly larger universe of regular DVD format).

In terms of title avalability, as of today, Zip offers 305 HD DVD titles and 295 Blu-ray ones, with more being added all the time. As you can see, it's not yet easy to spot a clear winner in terms of title selection, and the main thing is both formats are only just beginning to scratch the surface, with early releases mainly limited to the most popular titles. (Again, a problem of the unpleasant economics resulting from the format war.) On the other hand, the range of titles available in both formats is doubling every couple few months, the pace quickening.

In terms of consumer demand trends, Zip shipped our first hi-def discs back in May of last year. That month they amounted to less than one-hundredth of 1% of our rental shipments. But hi-def rental demand has been growing steadily, and this month will be the first month hi-def rentals surpass 1% of our shipments. On this trend hi-def rentals of one format or the other could be 4% or 5% of rentals by year-end.

MONTH Hi-Def % of Zip Rentals

May 2006 0.01%
June 2006 0.04%
July 2006 0.07%
August 2006 0.09%
Sept 2006 0.08%
Oct 2006 0.08%
Nov 2006 0.15%
Dec 2006 0.23%
Jan 2007 0.27%
Feb 2007 0.37%
March 2007 0.52%
April 2007 0.75%
May 2007 0.80%
June 2007 1.08%

As between consumer preference for one or the other of HD DVD and Blu-ray over the other, really we can't see how any rentailer could leap to a conclusion that one has yet gained the upper hand amongst consumers. You can read Zip customer selection data either one of two ways:

- Consumer chosse HD DVD over Blu-ray, 56% to 44% of rentals this month
- Blu-ray has more momentum than HD DVD, since the gap back in January favoured HD over Blu-ray 62-38 versus today's 56-44

Both these statements are true. Each could be used as an argument by either side in attempting to declare victory.

In our view, this is not yet resolved, no matter how much you, we and Blockbuster all wish it was. So we plan to continue offering any and all titles in both hi-def formats as long as our customers want either of them.

So because you support BD and want it to win, there's no problem there.

But because I support HD DVD, then I must work for them?

BTW - the answer's no, which I've answered before. My work is hotels, and I have nothing to do with the CE biz, nor Sony or Toshiba.

Would it really kill you to support BD?

What is this "VCR" contraption you speak of?


doh!

:D

hear hear, and I just can't believe anyone can afford an HDTV that can properly display either format and can't afford the $100 difference of players.
That.. Is shenanigans.

For the amount of times you've repeated that -- and been corrected -- you might as well just say that the players are the same price, or that Blu-ray players are cheaper. :rolleyes:

Nevermind that you're comparing a Profile 1.0 Blu-ray player to a Profile 2.0 Equivilent HD-DVD player. :rolleyes:

For the amount of times you've repeated that -- and been corrected -- you might as well just say that the players are the same price, or that Blu-ray players are cheaper. :rolleyes:

Nevermind that you're comparing a Profile 1.0 Blu-ray player to a Profile 2.0 Equivilent HD-DVD player. :rolleyes:

Going by MSRP of course.

New Poll!!!

How long will BD only people make out over the BB news? :D

New Poll!!!

How long will BD only people make out over the BB news? :D

How long until hddvd only people... sigh, I could make a poor joke, but that's just bad taste.

And PS3's can be upgraded to have PiP along with BD Live compatibility. It has the specs and then some.
As you know, we were talking about the obsolete standalone BD players, not the PS3.

However, while I have no doubt that the PS3 may be capable of more than the standalone BD players, there is no guarantee yet whether it (the PS3) will be made compliant with BD Live 2.0, or just the new BD Video 1.1...

Now that I think about it, it seems somewhat silly to think BD would not succeed. I mean, Sony was essentially betting it's entire company on the success of the BD format. So for the BD format to lose would mean that Sony as a company would have to seriously tank or be destroyed. Think about that: a world without Sony. Nobody really ever felt that that would ever happen so why should we not have realized that Sony winning wasn't much more likely as well?

I mean, this is probably the least of the "throat-cutting" moves that Sony has had up its sleeves to ensure BD dominance. If this hadn't happened now and the "HD DVD push" had beccome "a shove" by this Christmas - god knows what kind of hell Sony would have unleashed to reverse the trend. Sony is in bed with everyone and riskng their entire company on this product. I mean, if ever HD DVD really did or would become a threat - you can only imagine Sony paying off Best Buy, changing their Sony Pictures release schedule to suit other movie studios, and god knows what else.

I think we should all now embrace and accept the inevitable. It has been a good ride while it lasted.

Alright, frankly at this point it doesn't matter how many toshibas or hddvds you buy...

Traitor was a bad term. I suppose 'irrelevent' is more accurate and less offensive.

I'm half irrelevent, get it right.

I bought 40 year old Virgin,Dragonheart,Hellboy, and Seven Years in Tibet :D

I'm half irrelevent, get it right.

I bought 40 year old Virgin,Dragonheart,Hellboy, and Seven Years in Tibet :D

I like Dragonheart a lot, and wish it was on BD. I have both formats, but I'm certainly not going to buy any hd dvd's after the 3 I bought later year.

Going by MSRP of course.

Why would you not go by street price when the only player that sells for MSRP is the PS3? Everything else is streeted ... :confused:

Why would you go by street price when the only player that sells for MSRP is the PS3? Everything else is streeted ... :confused:

Thought that was site policy.

I like Dragonheart a lot, and wish it was on BD. I have both formats, but I'm certainly not going to buy any hd dvd's after the 3 I bought later year.

Dont see why not. If there is a movie on HDDVD or BD I want, I will buy it, could care less.

As you know, we were talking about the obsolete standalone BD players, not the PS3.

However, while I have no doubt that the PS3 may be capable of more than the standalone BD players, there is no guarantee yet whether it (the PS3) will be made compliant with BD Live 2.0, or just the new BD Video 1.1...

why wouldn't sony do that?

Thought that was site policy.

Oh ... I'm pretty sure 'name calling' is against site policy though ... :p

Dont see why not. If there is a movie on HDDVD or BD I want, I will buy it, could care less.

I stopped buying Laserdiscs at a point too. Was late in the cycle, I bought the 'Special Editions' on LD.

When I know a format is done, I stop buying it. It hit there on hddvd awhile ago.

why wouldn't sony do that?

I'm surprised they haven't made the PS3 1.1 compliant already actually ...

BR supporter = " Let's make these mole hills into a nice mountain range!"
HDDVD supporters = "Let's make this mountain range into some cute mole hills!"
Format Neutralers "Yawn!"


a year from now - most likely we will see that this was an important - BUT SMALL piece of what played into the wars conclusion. This is a lot similar (in it's dynamic) to the porn endorsing HDDVD debate - except the the sides were flipped. It most probably won't seal the fate of either format- and it also most certainly is not meaningless. I often feel like these threads are like politcal pundit shows on tv. There's 2 sides, neither is rational and they both hurt my brain.

Excuse me for quoting myself but I actually think this is more significant than many realize.


Back in the stone age when I was a college student I opened a couple of video stores with a buddy and the help of our parents. We used to chat frequently with other "Mom & Pop" retailers as we waited to pick up new releases at our distributor, East Texas Periodicals. The store owners began to comment that their Beta rentals were lagging behind VHS and they were thinking of perhaps dropping that format from their stores. Well, after checking our invoices, we realized that the VHS rentals were indeed outpacing Beta. We made a determination based on our limited resources to go with only one format, VHS of course. We took a chance on abandoning some customers but it actually benefited us greatly. We were now able to expand the titles in our library much faster. Video rental was a new business, and retailers were constantly spying on their competitors to see what they were doing and of course, copying what appeared to be successful strategies. At that point it was like a house of cards collapsing which eventually saw the demise of Beta as a home video format. Oh sure, you could still find a few stores that carried Beta but they were few and far between.

Information flowed slowly in those days, but today, retailers both small and large have the ability to gather and analyzie information in an instant. I happen to believe that this is much more devastating than most people in these threads realize. When a friend of mine told me this rumor a few weeks ago I didn't really believe it. But I guess I believed it enough to move from a neutral position entirely to Blu-ray.

This could end up starting a chain of events that will reach its culmination by the 4th quarter of this year. Paidgeek stated that he has heard from a reliable source that Target will be carrying Blu-ray players exclusively. The quote is in the forum that is discussing the Blockbuster news.

...I find it fascinatiing that similar events are unfolding more than twently years later. Nobody learned the lessons of the past ...well I guess Sony did. Any prayer that a Blu-ray exclusive studio would go neutral just died and we can probably expect to hear from Universal sooner than later. It's funny, Blockbuster put me out of business years ago but I am greatful they have taken a step that may help bring this war to a conclusion and allow all of us to just enjoy our home theaters.

Is Blockbuster parting with HD-DVD going to have the same outcome as God parting The Red Sea was to the Egyptians? Probably not, however it comes about as close as God himself appearing to Moses in the form of the burning bush and telling him he is the chosen one ;)

I still think HD-DVD missed the opportunity to buy off Warner at the start of these format wars so they could have had made a commercial with The Matrix scene about the red pill blue pill and had done something similar to the Back to the Future Direct TV commercial....

IMO, Blu-ray is the better medium and has enough momentum to end the war. HD-DVD does not.

I realized earlier this year that HD-DVD probably wasn't a good investment because its very survival was dependent almost entirely on one variable: Universal studios. It like in business - the biggest risk a company faces is having one customer that is so large, that if they decide to leave, the company would go under. That is how I view HD-DVD. If Universal goes neutral, HD-DVD is dead, instantly. Bad business model, and not a wise one to invest in, IMO.

In our view, this is not yet resolved, no matter how much you, we and Blockbuster all wish it was. So we plan to continue offering any and all titles in both hi-def formats as long as our customers want either of them.

Zip.ca is 100% online, and BB is still going to offer HD DVD online. How are the two any different in that regard?

I would expect if Zip.ca's CEO had several thousand B&M storefronts to deal with, and had to justify the per square foot returns for niche formats, he might have to make a similar decision.

Gary

Look, I love HD DVD as much as most HD fanboys, but I really think this is bunk. Even if it *is* true, is Sony really doing anything that other dedicated companies wouldn't do for their products? Do you think Coke doesn't have a lucrative deal with McDonald's?
I think it's only a problem for the FTC where the terms of a deal are made more lucrative to a dominant market player, to the disadvantage of their competitors, where the agreed result would compromise consumer choice.

That's the layman's terms outline. And in this instance, it may be relevant...

If BB coincidentally gets Sony Pictures exclusive releases, at the expense of their competitors, there are potentially going to be a few questions...

For anyone interested www.msnbc.com has a poll up asking"Which format, HD DVD or Blu-ray, will win? ", connected to the Blockbuster news and the numbers are pretty even, though only 7000 votes have come in, probably from AVS members. :D

IMO, Blu-ray is the better medium and has enough momentum to end the war. HD-DVD does not.

I realized earlier this year that HD-DVD probably wasn't a good investment because its very survival was dependent almost entirely on one variable: Universal studios. It like in business - the biggest risk a company faces is having one customer that is so large, that if they decide to leave, the company would go under. That is how I view HD-DVD. If Universal goes neutral, HD-DVD is dead, instantly. Bad business model, and not a wise one to invest in, IMO.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it's still fun to play. :)

I still don't understand why Microsoft didn't leverage its position better. Why didn't they strongarm Dell, a longtime MSFT ally, into backing HD DVD? Why didn't they ensure 100% support for HD DVD through Vista but not Blu-ray? It wouldn't have been considered monopolistic if they were supporting the official media of the HD Forum.

Why didn't Tosh and Uni/Warner more thoroughly test those horrid, horrid combos? Why wasn't more work put into getting another CE manufacturer to build HD players from the get-go?

So many questions...and if the appropriate actions were taken, IMHO you'd have a much different game being played.

I think it's only a problem for the FTC where the terms of a deal are made more lucrative to a dominant market player, to the disadvantage of their competitors, where the agreed result would compromise consumer choice.

That's the layman's terms outline. And in this instance, it may be relevant...

If BB coincidentally gets Sony Pictures exclusive releases, at the expense of their competitors, there are potentially going to be a few questions...

The hell..

So this is your next attack point, how Sony is.. what? Is there ANY evidence whatsoever that this isn't because BB saw 70% of their market for BD, and the rest is dead shelf space for HD?

Now, we have... lemme sit back and think about this.. Someone saying that that the FTC and other assorted government people will look into why Blockbuster picked Blu-ray and.. Win this for hddvd with a government led anti-trust assault against Blu-ray?

I mean, is that what is suggested here?

Like it or not this is pretty bad for HD DVD. While I anticipated an eventual move by retailers to "end" the format war by deciding for the consumer what they would stock, I never expected it to happen this quickly.

Rather sad if this thing gets decided by a gaming console.

Is that sad compared to the philosophy of HD-DVD driving the price down on players so much, so fast that none of our favorite CE companys can or want to compete?
I for one did buy a PS3 for Blu-Ray playback but I also just recently went format neutral with a A2 in my view Blu-Ray is better. I mean what's up with these DD+ audio on so many currently releasing HD-DVDs? If alot of these same films would be released on Blu-Ray you know they would have been U-PCM or Dolby HD. Also it seems many of Uni's cat. titles coming out recently have looked and sounded like crap just because they want the number of titles to shot up quickly(Liar, Liar, Bruce Almighty, sneakers, and Daylight).
This sounds a bit harsh but of course I mean no malice!! :o :o

I think it's only a problem for the FTC where the terms of a deal are made more lucrative to a dominant market player, to the disadvantage of their competitors, where the agreed result would compromise consumer choice.

That's the layman's terms outline. And in this instance, it may be relevant...

If BB coincidentally gets Sony Pictures exclusive releases, at the expense of their competitors, there are potentially going to be a few questions...


Keep throwing it up, maybe eventually you will get something to stick. :rolleyes:

I keep thinking I will no longer be amazed at the lengths some will go to, and yet I keep being amazed.

Keep throwing it up, maybe eventually you will get something to stick. :rolleyes:

I keep thinking I will no longer be amazed at the lengths some will go to, and yet I keep being amazed.

This anti-trust stuff just might be the most amazing suggestion, if that's what is being pushed here (I really can't believe he said this) that I've seen in a long, long while.

I am sitting here with the radio on and the news is being reported as "70% of consumers are choosing Blu-ray." In just a few hours this news has spread like wild fire to cable news outlets and radio stations. People that were considering a high definition purchase just changed their plans. You can bank on that. I don't know how this can be interpreted as anything but devastating for Toshiba and the HD DVD format.

I am sitting here with the radio on and the news is being reported as "70% of consumers are choosing Blu-ray." In just a few hours this news has spread like wild fire to cable news outlets and radio stations. People that were considering a high definition purchase just changed their plans. You can bank on that. I doon't know how this can be interpreted as anything but devastating for Toshiba and the HD DVD format.


hddvd's dead, we know that. Now we're hearing how it's a monopoly trust issue, lets see how this goes.

I think it's only a problem for the FTC where the terms of a deal are made more lucrative to a dominant market player, to the disadvantage of their competitors, where the agreed result would compromise consumer choice.

That's the layman's terms outline. And in this instance, it may be relevant...

If BB coincidentally gets Sony Pictures exclusive releases, at the expense of their competitors, there are potentially going to be a few questions...


Even if this is true, by the time the questions are raised, the hearings are made and the slap on the wrist has occured (remember Microsoft), the death nails of one format will have been driven home.

I am sitting here with the radio on and the news is being reported as "70% of consumers are choosing Blu-ray." In just a few hours this news has spread like wild fire to cable news outlets and radio stations. People that were considering a high definition purchase just changed their plans. You can bank on that. I doon't know how this can be interpreted as anything but devastating for Toshiba and the HD DVD format.

Well if you want to know how it can be interpreted as something other than that just ask rdjam and plazman.

I think it's only a problem for the FTC where the terms of a deal are made more lucrative to a dominant market player, to the disadvantage of their competitors, where the agreed result would compromise consumer choice.

That's the layman's terms outline. And in this instance, it may be relevant...

If BB coincidentally gets Sony Pictures exclusive releases, at the expense of their competitors, there are potentially going to be a few questions...

Highly, highly unlikely. It's a wise business move if they did indeed make it worth BB's while to jump on board. People always whine to the FTC about unfair trade practices, and most of the time it's bunk. This will be no different if it happens. They are leveraging their assets in the same way that Coke does with McDonald's (Coke has one major competitor), XM with MLB (XM has one major competitor), etc. through financial incentives such as slashed pricing models. Of course, this is all assuming SNE does indeed have a deal with BBI.

Keep in mind this is coming from a primarily HD DVD supporter and a bigtime MSFT lover. We can all yell in unison that SNE is evil (it's true), but at the end of the day, Toshiba, MSFT, and Uni have been dropping the ball until recently...and MSFT still hasn't leveraged its clout the way it could have.

My guess is that pretty soon with any HD-DVD that gets released... it will be in the combo version (regular DVD & HD-DVD). And there will be NO other way to purchase this title. So, Blockbuster will have to carry HD-DVD's if they want to carry the regular dvd.

Zip.ca rents movies in Canada. Here's what the CEO put up on the forums:

Zip Staff
Blockbuster has made the surprising announcement that it will not offer HD DVD rentals in its 1,450 US rental stores, and will instead limit hi-definition rentals in those locations only to the Blu-ray format.

This is a premature declaration of peace in the so-called format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray.

....

In our view, this is not yet resolved, no matter how much you, we and Blockbuster all wish it was. So we plan to continue offering any and all titles in both hi-def formats as long as our customers want either of them. Give that man a Ceegar!

This is absolutely correct - and HERE is a company that cares about it's customers. A very smart take on the market.

IMV, BBs deal reeks of a deal, and shoves their hairy back into the faces of customers - many of whom also rent DVDs.

... the death nails of one format will have been driven home.

More like through the heart. But what cracks me up is that the conspiracy theorists are rearing their ugly heads. There is no chance that Blockbuster made a smart business decision and HD DVD consumers made a bad one? Absolute insanity.

Would it really kill you to support BD?
You forgot to say please :p

I stopped buying Laserdiscs at a point too. Was late in the cycle, I bought the 'Special Editions' on LD.

When I know a format is done, I stop buying it. It hit there on hddvd awhile ago.

That is where we differ. I dont feel it is done. I am buying what is out now, not what MAY happen, or any other crystal ball, format war stuff is going on. I just love movies in general, and HD and BD give me my fix.

That is where we differ. I dont feel it is done. I am buying what is out now, not what MAY happen, or any other crystal ball, format war stuff is going on. I just love movies in general, and HD and BD give me my fix.

Ok, I have both too. But cleary hddvd's a goner. Has been for a long long time except for the true believers.

If.. hddvd turns around and takes over, ok. I'll gladly buy a dedicated hddvd player.

However, that's just not gonna happen. I'll use my xbox addon while I need it.

My guess is that pretty soon with any HD-DVD that gets released... it will be in the combo version (regular DVD & HD-DVD). And there will be NO other way to purchase this title. So, Blockbuster will have to carry HD-DVD's if they want to carry the regular dvd.

And if so, that will seal HD DVD's fate in my household for sure. At least right now I'll still buy single-sided Uni titles.

I have heard from a reliable source that Target will go BD hardware exclusive... Yes, I have heard rumblings about this as well, albeit third-hand but still. Crazy/scary stuff if true.

The hell..

So this is your next attack point, how Sony is.. what? Is there ANY evidence whatsoever that this isn't because BB saw 70% of their market for BD, and the rest is dead shelf space for HD?

Now, we have... lemme sit back and think about this.. Someone saying that that the FTC and other assorted government people will look into why Blockbuster picked Blu-ray and.. Win this for hddvd with a government led anti-trust assault against Blu-ray?

I mean, is that what is suggested here?


LOL if this is the case :)

You forgot to say please :p

You're moving into real conspiracy stuff. This is going beyond fanboi and getting.. C'mon.

LOL if this is the case :)

He hasn't denied it. I'm really concerned that he may actually think that the government will shut down BD because of BB choosing them, and hddvd will then be the winner.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it's still fun to play. :)

I still don't understand why Microsoft didn't leverage its position better. Why didn't they strongarm Dell, a longtime MSFT ally, into backing HD DVD? Why didn't they ensure 100% support for HD DVD through Vista but not Blu-ray? It wouldn't have been considered monopolistic if they were supporting the official media of the HD Forum.

Why didn't Tosh and Uni/Warner more thoroughly test those horrid, horrid combos? Why wasn't more work put into getting another CE manufacturer to build HD players from the get-go?

So many questions...and if the appropriate actions were taken, IMHO you'd have a much different game being played.

I don't see how you can say I'm engaging in hindsight here.

That was the situation at the beginning of this year. The landscape hasn't really changed other than Blu-ray has maintained and even increased its sales lead a little since then.

I didn't even say Blu-ray has won or even that Universal will go neutral. I'm simply saying that HD-DVD's survival is 100% staked on Universal's continued exclusivity, and that is not a good business model to invest in.

MAN! this thread is getting good! No matter what side you're on, CRAZY stuff! Pass the popcorn!

:)

Ok, I have both too. But cleary hddvd's a goner. Has been for a long long time except for the true believers.

If.. hddvd turns around and takes over, ok. I'll gladly buy a dedicated hddvd player.

However, that's just not gonna happen. I'll use my xbox addon while I need it.

I am fairly sure the Matrix set will turn out to have been my last HDDVD purchase.

I am fairly sure the Matrix set will turn out to have been my last HDDVD purchase.

I think Out of Sight will be mine.. I occasionally rent a few from netflix, but they are getting rare.

You forgot to say please :p

Dont worry, very soon you may have too :)

There is a survey available at MSNBC.com about this move by Blockbuster. This story also appears on their front page:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19289649/

~Josh

Zip.ca is 100% online, and BB is still going to offer HD DVD online. How are the two any different in that regard?

I would expect if Zip.ca's CEO had several thousand B&M storefronts to deal with, and had to justify the per square foot returns for niche formats, he might have to make a similar decision.

Gary
Blockbuster wouldn't dare drop HD DVD online, as their competitors, like Netflix and Zip would have them for breakfast. Doesn't mean that Blockbuster would not WANT to drop HD DVD, and in fact probably would in a minute, if there was no competition.

Competition is good - and protects consumers. I am of the opinion that BB has been "incentivized" to do this.

BB should not be rewarded for this move. I truly hope that another major B&M rental company takes an opposing stand on this issue...

I don't see how you can say I'm engaging in hindsight here.

That was the situation at the beginning of this year. The landscape hasn't really changed other than Blu-ray has maintained and even increased its sales lead a little since then.

I didn't even say Blu-ray has won or even that Universal will go neutral. I'm simply saying that HD-DVD's survival is 100% staked on Universal's continued exclusivity. If it disappears, HD-DVD is immediately finished.

I was suggesting that all of us are engaging in hindsight because this war is basically over now. I certainly was engaging in hindsight brainstorming by talking about what MSFT *could* have done differently.

Speaking of which, has anyone even contemplated the notion that MSFT didn't have ulterior business motives with HD DVD's demise (it almost assuredly didn't), but perhaps they over-diversified and made a bad business decision?

For all the good MSFT has done, they really, really dropped the ball with this one. They have been spinning their wheels so incessantly about digital downloading (nothing more than a twinkle in the sky for the foreseeable future), when they should have spent more time focusing on the here and now.

What a tremendous relief! I just finished writing to Blockbuster to thank them for this decision. This is going to result in my doing more business with Blockbuster, and finally having a place I can go to rent HD content. I've been holding off on Netflix and other mail services because I want to use HD whenever possible.

I think Blockbuster was wise in making this choice, and I know it's going to ruffle a lot of feathers in thee HD-DVD camp. Hopefully for the consumer's sake, this will be the beginning of the end of the HD format war.

Blockbuster wouldn't dare drop HD DVD online, as their competitors, like Netflix and Zip would have them for breakfast. Doesn't mean that Blockbuster would not WANT to drop HD DVD, and in fact probably would in a minute, if there was no competition.

Competition is good - and protects consumers. I am of the opinion that BB has been "incentivized" to do this.

BB should not be rewarded for this move. I truly hope that another major B&M rental company takes an opposing stand on this issue...

Dude, look at this from a business perspective. This "war" was nothing more than a battle to see who makes it to the championship round. That's it. Many of the companies and studios have apparently determined, and for various reasons, that BD is the one to go to the Super Bowl. So the loser, HD DVD, is meaningless...both formats' sales were poo-poo, it clearly wasn't about short-term revenue.

For all the good MSFT has done, they really, really dropped the ball with this one. They have been spinning their wheels so incessantly about digital downloading (nothing more than a twinkle in the sky for the foreseeable future), when they should have spent more time focusing on the here and now.

agreed. studios and retailers hate idea of downloads and tech will not be in place for at least five years.

As between consumer preference for one or the other of HD DVD and Blu-ray over the other, really we can't see how any rentailer could leap to a conclusion that one has yet gained the upper hand amongst consumers.

I think that's pretty much the general consensus. Regardless of whether you support Blu-ray or HD DVD or both, it's premature to say one format is clearly the consumers choice. But then again for some services and industries, sometimes it's moves like Blockbuster's that generates momentum and eventual acceptance.

As plazman pointed out (not that he really needed to - it's pretty much common knowledge if you follow marketplace conditions), Blockbuster's business model is not working. They've been steadily losing money and have repeatedly made very poor business decisions. There's no question Blockbuster's decision is a major blow for HD DVD, but I certainly wouldn't say it's the handwriting on the wall for HD DVDs future.

Competition is good - and protects consumers. I am of the opinion that BB has been "incentivized" to do this.


Yes they did have an incentive, go with the 70% market as apposed to the 30% and hopefully increase the demise of said 30% to increase the much more better 70%.

I know, its so hard to understand. I guess rental stores should of continued to support the betamax standard as well, even though it sold far less.

rdjam, your day is coming i think :D

agreed. studios and retailers hate idea of downloads and tech will not be in place for at least five years.

It'll be longer than that. Download aficionados think that apparently MSFT also has control over how much infrastructure is going to be built in the next 10 years. They don't...and it is highly unlikely, given the lack of competition in the broadband arena (e.g. Telecommunications Act basically provided us with one cable provider per market, yippee for competition), that significant improvements will be made anytime soon.

This is also ignoring the fact that the average person could give two craps about high-speed.

There is a survey available at MSNBC.com about this move by Blockbuster. This story also appears on their front page:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19289649/

~Josh

Don't go by online polls.. Jeez.

Not these ones especially. Ron Paul would be surpreme leader and everyone would only use apple TV and macs and iphones, period.

As plazman pointed out (not that he really needed to - it's pretty much common knowledge if you follow marketplace conditions), Blockbuster's business model is not working. They've been steadily losing money and have repeatedly made very poor business decisions.

Sounds exactly like NBC/Universal.

~Josh

I love blu-ray!

MAN! this thread is getting good! No matter what side you're on, CRAZY stuff! Pass the popcorn!

:)


I've already gone thru two packs of baseball Stadium quality peanuts :)

I've already gone thru two packs of baseball Stadium quality peanuts :)

Break out the early 1990's Topp's gum too.. Crunchy, but.. heh

Ok, I have both too. But cleary hddvd's a goner. Has been for a long long time except for the true believers.

If.. hddvd turns around and takes over, ok. I'll gladly buy a dedicated hddvd player.

However, that's just not gonna happen. I'll use my xbox addon while I need it.

We will have to agree to disagree. It is not clear to me it is a gonner.

Man, Bill Hunt is going to have an orgasm typing an editorial that will be up on his website anytime now declaring the high-def war for Blu-ray... again!

LOL! Apparantly his orgasm was so big, it crashed his site. It has been down the whole afternoon :D.

We will have to agree to disagree. It is not clear to me it is a gonner.

Help support this dumb format war then for Toshiba/MS.

LOL! Apparantly his orgasm was so big, it crashed his site. It has been down the whole afternoon :D .

I just noticed the exact same thing.

Now, we have... lemme sit back and think about this.. Someone saying that that the FTC and other assorted government people will look into why Blockbuster picked Blu-ray and.. Win this for hddvd with a government led anti-trust assault against Blu-ray?

I mean, is that what is suggested here?
Nope - What I'm saying is that the BB move is premature and I suspect they have been influenced in making this call, as it is great PR.

I'm not the only one who thinks it is premature, just look at the Zip.ca statement.

Now, if there was influence, and it was anti-competitive, then it should probably be checked out.

What's wrong with that?

Blockbuster wouldn't dare drop HD DVD online, as their competitors, like Netflix and Zip would have them for breakfast. Doesn't mean that Blockbuster would not WANT to drop HD DVD, and in fact probably would in a minute, if there was no competition.

Competition is good - and protects consumers. I am of the opinion that BB has been "incentivized" to do this.

BB should not be rewarded for this move. I truly hope that another major B&M rental company takes an opposing stand on this issue...


Competition is good and has already happened enough that I am happy with the end result. This end result precisely the quality level increase we have gotten from Blu-Ray when you compare "The Fifth Element" (old edition) to Pirates of the Carribean: Dead Man's Chest... If Blu-Ray never achieves higher quality than POTC: DMC (which I know they can however for the sake of argument) So I'll repeat: If Blu-Ray never achieves higher quality than POTC: DMC, I am more than happy with the end result of this long and hard fought battle that has brought out the best of Blu-ray.

Hindsight is 20/20, but it's still fun to play. :)

Indeed...so I'll also take a shot ;)

I still don't understand why Microsoft didn't leverage its position better. Why didn't they strongarm Dell, a longtime MSFT ally, into backing HD DVD? Why didn't they ensure 100% support for HD DVD through Vista but not Blu-ray? It wouldn't have been considered monopolistic if they were supporting the official media of the HD Forum.

For starters, I don't think people realize just how tough of a position HD DVD was in January of last year. With most studios and almost all CE players behind BD, without the appearance of MSFT and their $$$ to help develop VC-1 in time for release (and encode movies) and the extra money for marketing, it wouldn't have gone as well as things did in 2006. Dell is not as interested in strong-arming lately (go read about the Intel/AMD fiasco...and Intel was trying to strong-arm them, and MSFT wisely did not jeopardize their more important software relationship). Putting HD DVD or Blu-ray playback into Vista may indeed have looked monopolistic...not because they favored one format over the other, but because third-party playback venders would have been upset (notice the outcry from anti-virus software companies...MSFT is more vulnerable to these types of anti-trust problems, and while they may have won it's really lose-lose when you get into those types of court cases). Also, it's important to remeber what MSFT wanted out of this; they didn't want a clear winner, they wanted a stalemate.

Why didn't Tosh and Uni/Warner more thoroughly test those horrid, horrid combos?

Fair enough, you got me. Although a main strategy of HD DVD has been to "get there first", and that may have affected QC.

Why wasn't more work put into getting another CE manufacturer to build HD players from the get-go?

Recall that there was one or two (e.g. LG), but they dropped their plans about the same time as Toshiba announced the A1 was going to retail for almost half of the original MSRP of the previously-announced players. This decision (to take a loss/minimize profit to maximize consumer penetration before Blu-ray could launch) was the key to their early success (it's the only reason I bought one) but essentially precluded other manufacturers from getting involved...who wants to lose money for someone elses format war?

So many questions...and if the appropriate actions were taken, IMHO you'd have a much different game being played.

To some degree that is true. But they were also trying to rally from behind, and they made a good show of it. And there are probably a few more twists and turns coming up, but I think this is the beginning of the end, especially if there are other announcements (e.g. Target) coming soon, and if cheaper Chinese Blu-ray players are also coming.

Help support this dumb format war then for Toshiba/MS.

IMO it's truly a shame...think of all the things that could have been done differently and think how likely it would have been for HD to be the winner. If MSFT had flexed its muscles like the giant it is, and if the war wasn't left up to a non-contender (Tosh), things could have been different...

ottscay, very good post. I'm too lazy to respond to all of it, but you brought up some good points, especially MSFT's vulnerability WRT anti-trust issues.

The end of Hi-Def optical media?

I'm just having a hard time understanding some peoples' opinions on this issue. I see them breathing a sigh of relief at the supposed beginning of the end for HD-DVD. Don't people realize that without HD-DVD, blu-ray would still be releasing sub-standard transfers and no finalized specs(Actually, ~ Nov. they should have profile 1.1 finished and hopefully in 2008 they'll get bd-live working). With such a pathetic track record, I just can't understand why so many are happy. If hd-dvd goes away, I honestly expect any form of managed copy will go with them. I also very much expect that if they ever do standardize ethernet connections on blu-ray players, it will be to start a divx-style pay as you watch program where you have to pay a fee after your initial viewing in order to watch the movie again.

I agree that one standard format is better, but only if it's the better format. Until the BDA agrees to finalize a standard, gives us managed copy, figures out how to use JAVA and implement BD+ without affecting the consumer I don't think that format is blu-ray. IMO

without bd, hddvd would have been a 720p red laser format

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix.
I sent them a message letting them know how happy I am with this news! I let them know I will be droppiong Netflix to switch to Blockbuster. :)

hey! nyc!
my old stomping grounds!
how goes it in the big apple, carlos?

:)

Traelin I don't quite understand why you think MS cares about HD DVD to the extent you feel they do; it's simply a stalling action pending a more robust digital distribution infrastructure. Look at MS and you see every move of theirs in HD makes them money - they are hardly going to jeopardize profits and standing in their key partnerships to push a format they ultimately are in a marriage of convenience for to begin with. One company alone is making sacrifices for HD DVD: Toshiba. The rest are milking their situation to curry special sweetheart deals and basically serve as arms suppliers in their struggle. No one has benefited more from HD DVD to date than MS, all while not being exposed to even the slightest bit of risk from a fallout.

OOOOHHHH, wow, numbers!!! Two hour+ movies with all the video and audio options necessary fit just fine on the 30gig disks. Blu-ray used the extra space to throw on redundant lossless audio tracks. Woopie.

As for the studio's, that would not have mattered one iota if HD DVD had won this war. The question was which FORMAT was better for consumers. I don't care what the studios initially decided to support, they all would have been with the winner eventually. That is not a factor.

It sure seems to me that the CONSUMERS did chose what format was best for them, that is Blu-ray as evident by the larger number of rentals and purchases than compare to HD-DVD. Too bad, don't be a sore loser, you just happened to bet on the wrong team. Cut your losses and move on, no use to keep throwing good money to it.

hey! nyc!
my old stomping grounds!
how goes it in the big apple, carlos?
My birthday was yesterday. Things are great here. :)

I LIKE IT! I am happy that 1 format is starting to win. I didn't care which format won, but I was getting tired of the standoff. It is starting to be evident that Bluray is winning the war. Of course, I do feel bad for people who have invested in HD-DVD, but I am happy that a winner is about to appear so we can move on with this technology. Once a winner is determined, high def sales will start going ballistic.

The end of Hi-Def optical media?

I'm just having a hard time understanding some peoples' opinions on this issue. I see them breathing a sigh of relief at the supposed beginning of the end for HD-DVD. Don't people realize that without HD-DVD, blu-ray would still be releasing sub-standard transfers and no finalized specs(Actually, ~ Nov. they should have profile 1.1 finished and hopefully in 2008 they'll get bd-live working). With such a pathetic track record, I just can't understand why so many are happy. If hd-dvd goes away, I honestly expect any form of managed copy will go with them. I also very much expect that if they ever do standardize ethernet connections on blu-ray players, it will be to start a divx-style pay as you watch program where you have to pay a fee after your initial viewing in order to watch the movie again.

I agree that one standard format is better, but only if it's the better format. Until the BDA agrees to finalize a standard, gives us managed copy, figures out how to use JAVA and implement BD+ without affecting the consumer I don't think that format is blu-ray. IMO

Who knows, maybe HD DVD will give me a pleasant shock and pull it out. In any event I'll continue to buy catalog exclusive titles on HD DVD.

without bd, hddvd would have been a 720p red laser format
You do know that hd dvd NEEDS the blu laser right? Without it would just be dvd and not have 15-30 gigs of space.

PS without hd dvd blu ray would have most their titles looking like the fifth element. and $2000 standalone prices like they wanted to do at first

This thread is a juganaugt :eek:

I have both. While it would have been nicer for Blockbuster to offer both formats in their B&M stores, all is not lost for the twin-format owners. Speaking selfishly, with Blockbuster Total Access, now I can rent HD-DVDs online and exchange them in store for Blu-Ray discs. It wouldn't have matterred to me if Blockbuster decided the other way. Are dual-format owners in the minority here?

It definetely hurts if you have HD-DVD only but even then one could exchange their online HD-DVD rentals for instore SD-DVDs.

On a side note, I think a part of the reason for low attach rates for the PS3 have to do with people preferring to rent online rather than part with 20-30$ per movie. I would expect hard-core gamers to spend their dollars on $60 game which provides many more hours of entertainment and excitement than a 30$ movie.

I rent because I can't afford the prices of the HD media after spending $375 for a 20GB PS# and $175 for a HD-A2 which are deals in their own right for new in box players. Not everybody can spend $600+ (any tax) on a PS3 and still be spending $60 a Game and $30 a movie.

Well as a long time blockbuster customer, I will now cancel my membership and probably go with netflix.

I will never ever buy blu-ray. If HD DVD suddenly dies, I will be happy with Xbox Live HD marketplace before I will buy BD.

As a side note, Blockbuster really should have a way to easily find which stores have HD DVD (franchise stores) on their website. The fact that they don't is pathetic.

Nope - What I'm saying is that the BB move is premature and I suspect they have been influenced in making this call, as it is great PR.

I'm not the only one who thinks it is premature, just look at the Zip.ca statement.

Now, if there was influence, and it was anti-competitive, then it should probably be checked out.

What's wrong with that?

Well, is there any.. even possible scenario where your anti-hddvd monopoly can be realistic?

Even if Sony paid a trillion to BB, will that be illegal? Doubtful.

So basically you're saying a possiblly paid of situation might just be illegal.

Thing is, both are BS.

Traelin I don't quite understand why you think MS cares about HD DVD to the extent you feel they do; it's simply a stalling action pending a more robust digital distribution infrastructure. Look at MS and you see every move of theirs in HD makes them money - they are hardly going to jeopardize profits and standing in their key partnerships to push a format they ultimately are in a marriage of convenience for to begin with. One company alone is making sacrifices for HD DVD: Toshiba. The rest are milking their situation to curry special sweetheart deals and basically serve as arms suppliers in their struggle. No one has benefited more from HD DVD to date than MS, all while not being exposed to even the slightest bit of risk from a fallout.

Do you have any proof that they are just with hd dvd for convenience?

IMO opinion the role model here is not Universal, but rather WB whose Home Video market share is greater than their movie market share. AFAIR. So, the goal should be to emulate the best.

As far as losing money, I don't believe Universals' home video division is doing badly at all. Blockbuster is in another league as far as corporate screw ups are concerned....

As far as losing money, I don't believe Universals' home video division is doing badly at all. Blockbuster is in another league as far as corporate screw ups are concerned....

The studio really losing money right now that sure looks to talk allot is fox.... no releases on either side but they sure talk a big game. kind of like a chihuahua...

There is no chance that Blockbuster made a smart business decision <snip>?

There's about as good a chance Blockbuster makes a good business decision as there is Steve Jobs will speak without blue jeans and a black mock turtleneck. :p It is absolutely possible Blockbuster made a good decision, or at the very least, initiated the wave that brings death to HD DVD, but let's be honest, if it works out for them - it will be an accidentally intelligent decision. Blockbuster wouldn't be able to accurately predict consumer demand or rollout innovative, new ideas if God himself told them.

Sounds exactly like NBC/Universal.
~Josh

True to an extent, but to be fair, NBC's portfolio is much broader than Blockbuster's. Blockbuster has to do one thing - get people to rent/buy movies. Their financial results over the last several years have failed to show they can do that well.

Traelin I don't quite understand why you think MS cares about HD DVD to the extent you feel they do; it's simply a stalling action pending a more robust digital distribution infrastructure. Look at MS and you see every move of theirs in HD makes them money - they are hardly going to jeopardize profits and standing in their key partnerships to push a format they ultimately are in a marriage of convenience for to begin with. One company alone is making sacrifices for HD DVD: Toshiba. The rest are milking their situation to curry special sweetheart deals and basically serve as arms suppliers in their struggle. No one has benefited more from HD DVD to date than MS, all while not being exposed to even the slightest bit of risk from a fallout.

Well of course everything in the business world is about money. And unless we are in the MSFT war rooms daily, we don't know their long-term game plan. However, I am of the opinion that they wanted HD DVD to at least coexist if not win, until their grand plan of digital downloading became the status quo. THAT is where I think the problem comes in...there's a saying (I forget it at the moment) about looking too far in the future and forgetting about the present.

Their motives were driven -- like every other company -- by making money. But they didn't invest enough time and/or money into HD for it to win, and win decisively. (This is just my opinion and is purely conjecture. I have no professional affiliations with MSFT.)

It sure seems to me that the CONSUMERS did chose what format was best for them, that is Blu-ray as evident by the larger number of rentals and purchases than compare to HD-DVD. Too bad, don't be a sore loser, you just happened to bet on the wrong team. Cut your losses and move on, no use to keep throwing good money to it.
You are correct, 1% of the consumers have spoken! Blu-ray is the overwhelming prefernce... well they have 67% of that 1% anyway. Of course, the other 99% don't want Blu-ray or HD DVD at these prices.

I'm not really sure what you think is going to happen. Do you think we're going to throw away our HD DVD players because you want us to cut our losses? Do you expect us to stop getting movies for HD DVD because you don't like that format?

In other words, just what the hell is the point of so many BD supporters asking HD DVD supporters to give in? What realistically do you want us to do - because if it's what I think it is I'm going to laugh at you...

Do you have any proof that they are just with hd dvd for convenience?

http://www.1000bit.net/lista/dati/tandy/tandy2000_ad.jpg

Just take a look at that face in the link above. ;) Ask yourself how well Radio Shack turned out in this partnership.. ;)

Anyways, back on topic :) More popcorn was just thrown into the Microwave which hasn't moved into the downloadable food realm just yet. ;) Although that Microwave that was used in Back to the Future II to make that pizza wouldn't be too bad of a thing right now. :)

As a side note, Blockbuster really should have a way to easily find which stores have HD DVD (franchise stores) on their website. The fact that they don't is pathetic.

Especially since there are only 250 of them, would only take them about 15 minutes to put up the webpage. ;)

You do know that hd dvd NEEDS the blu laser right? Without it would just be dvd and not have 15-30 gigs of space.




Of course I know that. You DO know that HDdvd was at one time going to be a red laser, 720P max format, yes? At one time that was considered "good enough"...
Do a search.

:)

You are correct, 1% of the consumers have spoken! Blu-ray is the overwhelming prefernce... well they have 67% of that 1% anyway. Of course, the other 99% don't want Blu-ray or HD DVD at these prices.

I'm not really sure what you think is going to happen. Do you think we're going to throw away our HD DVD players because you want us to cut our losses? Do you expect us to stop getting movies for HD DVD because you don't like that format?

In other words, just what the hell is the point of so many BD supporters asking HD DVD supporters to give in? What realistically do you want us to do - because if it's what I think it is I'm going to laugh at you...

Jeez, it's not 'give in' like it's some do or die thing. If you buy and support blu-ray, you won't wither away.

What is best is that we just unite behind Blu-ray as the HD format of the next 5-15 years.

Even if Sony paid a trillion to BB, will that be illegal? Doubtful.
.
Why do you say that?

Do you have any proof that they are just with hd dvd for convenience?

Proof? I'm an Occam's Razor type of guy. You don't need proof to see it; like I said, MS has made *zero* risk investment in HD DVD. Their work on a reference system is them being paid by people to use their OS, and being paid consulting fees on top of that. Their HD DVD add-on is a drive sold at cost (or below) to them by Toshiba, which they turn around and sell at retail, again with no risk of severe profit hit.

MS is in this for VC-1 and VC-1 alone. Insofar as VC-1 is the de facto codec for HD DVD, it has served as an ideal foil to Blu-ray and a great way to build awareness and experience around the encoders. That is awareness and experience MS hopes will lead Warner, Universal, et al to eventually opt for VC-1 in their digital distribution projects/content.

So on the contrary, rather I would ask for proof from you that this is *not* the case with MS, and were it not to be, why in the world they have not lifted a finger to help the format when such help requires even the slightest bit of sacrifice.

MS is to HD DVD what the US is to Taiwan: an ideological supporter and an arms dealer. But you can be sure MS isn't going to bleed for these guys.

Why do you say that?

Because, do you realize what kind of situation it would take to make a standard payment illegal (IF THERE EVER WAS ANY PAYMENT WHATEVERSO EVER)?

Of course I know that. You DO know that HDdvd was originally going to be a red laser, 720P max format, yes? Those were the original specs.

:)

i remember...

Jeez, it's not 'give in' like it's some do or die thing. If you buy and support blu-ray, you won't wither away.

What is best is that we just unite behind Blu-ray as the HD format of the next 5-15 years.

So you really are asking us to throw away our HD DVD players and buy BD players? That's a little much to ask, isn't it? I'm satisfied with my HD DVD player, there are plenty of movies for it that I still need to see, so I don't think I'll be chunking it away just yet. Sorry to disappoint. But I guess if it's that important to you I will accept a PS3 from you and start watching some BD's as well.

Because, do you realize what kind of situation it would take to make a standard payment illegal (IF THERE EVER WAS ANY PAYMENT WHATEVERSO EVER)?
I do in a few different jurisdictions. The question is if you do.

So you really are asking us to throw away our HD DVD players and buy BD players? That's a little much to ask, isn't it? I'm satisfied with my HD DVD player, there are plenty of movies for it that I still need to see, so I don't think I'll be chunking it away just yet. Sorry to disappoint. But I guess if it's that important to you I will accept a PS3 from you and start watching some BD's as well.

Heh, you don't gotta toss it. I won't my xbox addon. it'll play my few movies I have for it.

It's just can't we unite behind BD? Is it *really* that hard?

You do know that hd dvd NEEDS the blu laser right? Without it would just be dvd and not have 15-30 gigs of space.

PS without hd dvd blu ray would have most their titles looking like the fifth element. and $2000 standalone prices like they wanted to do at first


So are you saying dave mack is wrong? you may want to check that first.

You didn't.

I don't think he saw moderator ownage.

But he did see someone who was posting in a user capacity who is also a moderater get owned.

At this rate, I'm thinking even if Blu-Ray takes the cake and is the only HD format available it will stay in niche status. People are just too happy with the cheap prices of SD-DVD and it looks "good enough." I mean, you have to consider that a lot of people don't have TV's bigger than 36 inches. I've seen Blu-Ray and HD-DVD hooked up to a 32 inch TV and honestly, the difference isn't that big. Of course, the difference becomes more apparent when you watch it on a 50+ inch TV/Projector, but a lot of people don't really care and think DVD is good enough. It's always funny when friends and family look at me funny when I keep talking on and on about HD Media. *sighs* What are you gonna do.

I do in a few different jurisdictions. The question is if you do.

Ok, then exlain the anti-trust laws in detail then.

Basically, unless there's a real monopoly and it's used in an anti-competitive way in very detatailed circumcances, you might get a hearing.

Are you going to say this business deal qualifies?

I don't think he saw moderator ownage.

But he did see someone who was posting in a user capacity who is also a moderater get owned.
Apparently you need to read the follow up posts.

Didn't you say you had reasons for not posting here anymore, anyway? So you come here just to take a shot at me? How nice. Thanks for supporting our page view count.

At this rate, I'm thinking even if Blu-Ray takes the cake and is the only HD format available it will stay in niche status. People are just too happy with the cheap prices of SD-DVD and it looks "good enough." I mean, you have to consider that a lot of people don't have TV's bigger than 36 inches. I've seen Blu-Ray and HD-DVD hooked up to a 32 inch TV and honestly, the difference isn't that big. Of course, the difference becomes more apparent when you watch it on a 50+ inch TV/Projector, but a lot of people don't really care and think DVD is good enough. It's always funny when friends and family look at me funny when I keep talking on and on about HD Media. *sighs* What are you gonna do.

I dunno what display you have, but I show 50+ year olds the difference between SD and bluray and it's night and day for them.

I get the feeling that everyone that doesn't care is seeing 50" or less. Heck, my semi-nerd HD friend is getting tired of sub 60".

So you really are asking us to throw away our HD DVD players and buy BD players?
There is going to be one winner. The rest will end up like betamax tapes.

Blockbuster sucks anyway. They edit their movies for content. I haven't rented from them in years because of that fact. Hollywood Video DOES NOT EDIT FOR CONTENT!

I just called Value Electronics and cancelled my AX2, thanks BB for making my day miserable. I will stay on the sideline a little longer until there is a clear cut winner.

Rob

I dunno what display you have, but I show 50+ year olds the difference between SD and bluray and it's night and day for them.

I get the feeling that everyone that doesn't care is seeing 50" or less. Heck, my semi-nerd HD friend is getting tired of sub 60".

You didn't read my entire post, I said the difference isn't big on a 36" display. When you go 50"+ that is when the difference is more noticable. What I was trying to say is that there are a lot of people who don't have anything bigger than a 36" and with that you aren't going to have many people wanting to re-buy disc and players and all.

My birthday was yesterday. Things are great here. :)


Happy B'day, bro!

We might be moving back in the fall.
Miss the old place...

:)

There is a survey available at MSNBC.com about this move by Blockbuster. This story also appears on their front page:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19289649/

~Josh

Ha ha, I got a technical error when I went to the live poll. I guess MS doesn't like people using Linux + Firefox. :rolleyes:

At this rate, I'm thinking even if Blu-Ray takes the cake and is the only HD format available it will stay in niche status. People are just too happy with the cheap prices of SD-DVD and it looks "good enough."

I think it was scarely close to that. If the stalemate had lasted sigificantly into 2008 (e.g. Q1-2) I would have agreed (and been quite upset). If this snowballs into a clear win before the holidays (and it's looking like it could actually happen) then I think Blu-ray stands a good chance of unseating DVD, although in unit sales numbers (software) it will likely take a decade...just like DVD took to unseat VHS. The important thing is that one format become the defacto "next" format so people feel comfortable enough to buy one on a whim (e.g. when they buy an HDTV). Lower hardware prices will also help, but only in the absence of a format war. As long as the public consciousness adopts one format as the "next format", and the studios continues to not just put good content, but innovate new forms of interactivity, then HD optical media should still replace DVD. Of course dowloads will fragment the market to some degree, but it will be minimal for quite a while if one format becomes the winner.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man:
"I like Target, they’re right next to my local Blockbuster store.
Makes things convenient.":) Maybe the store next to them will also go blu-ray exclusive :D LOL!

You didn't read my entire post, I said the difference isn't big on a 36" display. When you go 50"+ that is when the difference is more noticable. What I was trying to say is that there are a lot of people who don't have anything bigger than a 36" and with that you aren't going to have many people wanting to re-buy disc and players and all.

Sorry, I missed that.

Indeed, at 36" they are about as good with VCD or VHS.

I just called Value Electronics and cancelled my AX2, thanks BB for making my day miserable. I will stay on the sideline a little longer until there is a clear cut winner.

Rob

Don't you think things are a little clearer since the announcement?

Kind of seems like you do since you cancelled your order based on it.

Blockbuster sucks anyway. They edit their movies for content. I haven't rented from them in years because of that fact. Hollywood Video DOES NOT EDIT FOR CONTENT!


http://www.lumpen.com/fatherland/groupo1.html

:eek:

I sent them a message letting them know how happy I am with this news! I let them know I will be droppiong Netflix to switch to Blockbuster. :)

Doesn't NetFlix have a larger catalog? :confused: