As a huge PS gamer I wholeheartedly disagree. ...and watching Mission: Impossible 3 in 1080P is just as appealing ;)

I whole heartedly agree. I am a 28 year old gamer, as is most of my generation and well heck I am married and I enjoy movies too. Even if 1/10 of all Ps3 owners are like me, which I am sure the ratio is better than that you still have 500,000 Blu-Ray customers to cater to.

... This doesn't even account for the already rumored and mentioned Ps'3 price drop at Christmas. (Yes, the head of Sony mentioned the price drop).
...


That cat is about to come out of the bag. Sony spokesmen already admitted the need to revise the pricing structure to be competitive with the Wii.

Another classic mistake.
Now chances are that they cannot wait for the holiday season. Soon everybody is expecting a pricedrop and this will make a lot of folks wait for this to happen. If they wait too long they loose yet more significant sales the coming months.

And I'll note of course that HD DVD itself has half its userbase composed of 360 add-on owners, and they seem normal enough, yeah? ;)


normal ;) have you visited the x-box forum lately ;)

Most of those arguements were used against DVD in its early years.

No they weren't. They didn't promise 4X to 6X better PQ and AQ as HD does over SD

1. I agree that DVD was a revolutionary step from VHS. But I also feel that the move of media from SD to HD is a revolution too. The just from 360x240 to 640x480 is actually smaller than the jump from 720x480 to 1980x1080. Right now we are looking at a small time window and what we see looks like evolution but when we look back at similar events things can gain a different perspective.

I made a list on another thread and with the help of the members on the thread we came up with 15 reasons why DVD was better than VHS. We only came up with 3 for Hi Def Disc; PQ, AQ and Web enabled

2. Quality 32" HDTV's can be had for under $600. I can recall a time when it was difficult to get a 27" SDTV for under $400. Compared to Color SDTV's we are still in the infancy of HDTV as a viewing device. Right now everyone is looking at the big HDTV's and seeing the (relatively) big prices, but on an inch for inch basis HD is not that much more expensive than SD was a little over 10 years ago.

True - HDTV prices are falling but as you say - most haven't bought an HDTV yet.

3. Competition from other HD sources will actually be a good thing. So after watching the nightly news in HD on your bigscreen you reach over and pop in the latest blockbuster release in SD? Yeah right! I think that anyone can attest that once you see video in HD you prefer to see video in HD from that point forward.

So all I have to do is change the channel to Discovery HD Theater or to Universal HD or the other channels that offer HD - and it doesn't cost me a penny extra to do this as I already have the service.

If I "pop in" an HD movie - did I have to rent it or buy it? - both would cost me money

4. VHS was "good enough" for many for a long time too. During the DVD "Revolution" everyone didn't magically recieve a DVD player for christmas in 1998 it took how many years before DVD sales/rentals outpaced VHS.

It took how many years before DVD became a recordable, affordable media? In 1998 you couldn't record on a DVD as you could with VHS.

5. John Q only needs to realize that he likes HD pictures better than SD ones to decide he wants HD media. Making the choice as to which HD format is holding back alot of John Q's. Much of that is because of the fog of war as both sides pump out so much contradictory information that it is better to wait.

Most of the John Q's who have an HDTV actually think they are watching HDTV when in reality they are watching SD upconverted to their HDTV. This is the problem with Hi Def Disc. The potential market is not the 30 million homes that have an HDTV. It is the homes that have an HDTV and are watching HD from a true HD source as I mentioned.

Sorry - no sale

If you are telling me that your local store manager makes decisions on what and how many copies of new release rental titles he is going to carry in his store to satisfy demand, I'd like to talk to him because things must have changed dramatically since I worked there when I was in college.

Blockbuster has decided that some of the pilot stores carrying HD-DVD will no longer carry HD DVD? I don't see that in the Blockbuster press release or in the COO interview I linked earlier in this thread.

There are 2 different kind of stores in the US. BB owned stores and Franchise stores.

That cat is about to come out of the bag. Sony spokesmen already admitted the need to revise the pricing structure to be competitive with the Wii.

Another classic mistake.
Now chances are that they cannot wait for the holiday season. Soon everybody is expecting a pricedrop and this will make a lot of folks wait for this to happen. If they wait too long they loose yet more significant sales the coming months.

Always deny a pricecut until you announce that it is effective immediately. You always assume that consoles will have price drops in the near future (except the wii), but they should never say it outloud.

Always deny a pricecut until you announce that it is effective immediately. You always assume that consoles will have price drops in the near future (except the wii), but they should never say it outloud.

Yeah Sony made a mistake there, but it is a counter to the already Microsoft mentioned cuts on 360's. Any one that has had any experience with console pricing knows that if one makes a cut, they all make a cut. Plus remember that 30gig (I think) Ps3 they had for 500 at launch, (and the 80 gig just released in Korea). Pretty easy with the improvment on production to bring it back at a $300 dollar price point, talk about competative. :eek:
Especailly now that Sony has put all their eggs in one basket from an Electronics standpoint. TV's, recievers, computers, Ps3 and standalone all banking on blu-ray.

Yeah Sony made a mistake there, but it is a counter to the already Microsoft mentioned cuts on 360's. Any one that has had any experience with console pricing knows that if one makes a cut, they all make a cut. Plus remember that 30gig (I think) Ps3 they had for 500 at launch. Pretty easy with the improvment on production to bring it back at a $300 dollar price point, talk about competative. :eek:
Especailly now that Sony has put all there eggs in one basket from an Electronics standpoint. TV's, recievers, computers, Ps3 and standalone all banking on blu-ray.

20gb, I have one and love it.

They aren't going to bring the 20gb back, I think they will make the 60gb $499 for the Holidays then $450 Summer 08. Microsoft should always be able to have the non-core system available for less than the cheapest ps3.

Microsoft should always be able to have the non-core system available for less than the cheapest ps3.


Interesting point, but a quick flick through your Ps3 manual and you find out how to replace your HDD, with a larger one. So a Core Ps3 is only a hard drive removal away.

Interesting point, but a quick flick through your Ps3 manual and you find out how to replace your HDD, with a larger one. So a Core Ps3 is only a hard drive removal away.

I know you can replace the HD in the ps3, but the 20gb hd and lack of media card reader and wireless didn't save Sony $100, they just used those as bullet points to distinguish between the two skus.

I don't work for Sony or have any insider information but I would be shocked to see anything lower (price or feature wise) than a 60gb PS3 priced at $499 for Christmas.

I would be much less suprised to see the current 60gb slide to $499 and have a sku with a much larger drive available for $599 (maybe it could come with a BD remote).

(this was a joke)
I'm on pain meds, so jokes aren't coming through. ;)

Right now the 'war' is between blu-ray and HD DVD, you should know that since you seem to really be interested in the success of HD DVD.

Blu-ray is winning with higher software sales. 1.6 million may be a small number compared to DVD, but compared to the 1 million of HD DVD the winning format is clear.

If these numbers were run before the PS3, the winning format was clear then too ... When HD-DVD was ahead, the BDA folks wanted everyone to wait and give PS3 adoption some time. Now that the PS3 is out and the BDA is ahead, it's time to close up shop so we can have one format and get to mass adoption.

Well, since the HD DVD folks had to wait for the PS3, wouldn't it only be fair for the BDA folks to wait for the Chinese players or something? And, if HD DVD does take the lead again, will the BDA folks be willing to toss in the towel as quickly as they would like the HD DVD PRG to do? :confused:

I'm on pain meds, so jokes aren't coming through. ;)

Well, I hope your ok, or just taking them for the warm & fuzzies ;)

If these numbers were run before the PS3, the winning format was clear then too ... When HD-DVD was ahead, the BDA folks wanted everyone to wait and give PS3 adoption some time. Now that the PS3 is out and the BDA is ahead, it's time to close up shop so we can have one format and get to mass adoption.

Well, since the HD DVD folks had to wait for the PS3, wouldn't it only be fair for the BDA folks to wait for the Chinese players or something? And, if HD DVD does take the lead again, will the BDA folks be willing to toss in the towel as quickly as they would like the HD DVD PRG to do? :confused:

So chinese players are HD DVDs ps3?

Hmm, aren't their chinese BD players too?

Of course if HD DVD does take the lead again I will smash Mspeed6's PS3 on youtube

BTW I thought Sony was the one who said when the war started ;)

Do you have some timeframe or benchmark in mind? The benchmark for me is Universal making HD content for my player, what's yours?

If you honestly thing most people will import movies at a premium price you are sorely mistaken. :rolleyes:

This 'most people' argument cuts both ways. If 'most people' aren't going to import movies, isn't it safe to also say that:

'most people' don't care about HD Media.
'most people' don't want to spend 2x on a player that has less features.
'most people' don't have the gear or the ear to tell between PCM and TrueHD and DD+

etc, etc ... *shrug*

No they weren't. They didn't promise 4X to 6X better PQ and AQ as HD does over SD

I didn't know that you were the keeper of all knowledge.
If you revisit your list
1. Revolution v. evolution - the american revolution was a civil war until we won.
2. Requires expensive TV. Not really, Big screen TV's have always been expensive, inch for inch HDTV prices are comparable to what SD TV was 10 years ago.
3. Competition - DVD had similar competition also, as cable, OTA, and early satalite was also available. Movie theaters were more popular then too.
4. Obviously tons of people thought VHS was "good enough" because DVD sales didn't eclipse VHS for many years
5. John Q - most probably didn't understand what a 4-head VCR was or what Progressive scan is on his DVD player or the difference between Composite and component cables but that hasn't stopped him from buying into the technologies.

I made a list on another thread and with the help of the members on the thread we came up with 15 reasons why DVD was better than VHS. We only came up with 3 for Hi Def Disc; PQ, AQ and Web enabled

I'd actually like to see that. But given that we have had 10 years to ponder DVD and only 1 to ponder HiDef I am surprised the list isn't larger. How about larger storage medium, generally more audio options, and more scratch resistant (BR anyway), interactive (non-web) extras (on HD-DVD). There more than doubled your list in 10 mins. Imagine what I could do in 10 years.


True - HDTV prices are falling but as you say - most haven't bought an HDTV yet.

Well, Until Santa or the tooth fairy start leaving them behind it will take awhile for HD to saturate the market.


So all I have to do is change the channel to Discovery HD Theater or to Universal HD or the other channels that offer HD - and it doesn't cost me a penny extra to do this as I already have the service.

If I "pop in" an HD movie - did I have to rent it or buy it? - both would cost me money

Hmmm, again that same arguement can be made against DVD, unless you get free DVDs


It took how many years before DVD became a recordable, affordable media? In 1998 you couldn't record on a DVD as you could with VHS.

That's the point, right? Comparing early DVD life cycle to early HDM life cycle

Most of the John Q's who have an HDTV actually think they are watching HDTV when in reality they are watching SD upconverted to their HDTV. This is the problem with Hi Def Disc. The potential market is not the 30 million homes that have an HDTV. It is the homes that have an HDTV and are watching HD from a true HD source as I mentioned.

First, watching SD upconverted and thinking it is HD does not preclude someone from buying a HiDef device. Most John Q's are also watching DVD's on composite cables, and if they have a 5.1 theatre probably don't have that setup well either.

Sorry - no sale

You already bought in :rolleyes: :D

If I have in one hand 35 million dollars and I have 19 million in the other hand, which wins?

It depends on how much it cost to get those dollars into each hand ...

Are those numbers just software sales alone? Does anyone have a link to them?

Then why would anyone choose to buy HD DVD? Blu-ray obviously has more studio support, meaning it is much more likely that titles you want to own will come out on Blu-ray rather than HD DVD. It sounds like you are saying you should purchase a Blu-ray player.

Yes, they have more studio support, but roughly the same amount of titles. If the release schedules hit as they currenly are, HD DVD will release 30 more movies than the BDA will, which should put them slighly ahead.

Also, if you factor in the Indy/Adult studios, HD DVD has more studio support.

Also, if you factor in that Fox isn't releasing any movies at the moment ... well ... I think you get the idea ...

Well, since the HD DVD folks had to wait for the PS3, wouldn't it only be fair for the BDA folks to wait for the Chinese players or something? And you think there will be only HD DVD Chinese players.....why?

And you think there will be only HD DVD Chinese players.....why?

Because he hasn't seen this? http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=862921

I was referring to sales but of course if you are looking to support HD DVD you weren't.

And, of course, all the other studios and volume of titles don't matter if you are looking to support Blu-ray.

Neat how that works, isn't it?

Ok, attempt 43 at getting the title right.....

You missed a semi-colon, and I think the grammar is a little off ... :p

Well, I hope your ok, or just taking them for the warm & fuzzies ;)
Thanks, and I wish they were for the warm and fuzzies but I broke my arm. I keep telling the cute nurses that it from fighting in the format war. They just give me more pain meds. *shrug* :o

Steeb - is that you?

How you doing buddy?

So good to see that you are alive and well and still making up things. You of course can point to MY post where I claimed that HERE at AVS?

You can't? - darn - oh well, at least we can continue to say hello to each other here at AVS . . . . but not unfortunately at HDF. The guys (all 5 of them) miss you over there.

Well stay in touch.

Regards,

Lee

PS: Always remember the motto here at AVS:

"Attack the post . . . not the poster!"

I'm not your buddy Steeb.

I did not say you made that remark at AVS. Do your have a split personality?

Does you opinion at that forum differ from this forum?

So you took my question on your stance as an attack? You are more sensitive than I thought, it was simply an honest question because you were being quite hypocritical. I see your response as simply choosing to deflect without answering.

I didn't know that you were the keeper of all knowledge.
If you revisit your list
1. Revolution v. evolution - the american revolution was a civil war until we won.


Not sure I follow this...but in any case DVD was so much more convenient than VHS, as well as having cheaper (and much smaller) media. This was on top of better PQ and AQ. It was a revolutionary change because it provided much greater convenience to the consumer. HD is evolutionary and that's it.


2. Requires expensive TV. Not really, Big screen TV's have always been expensive, inch for inch HDTV prices are comparable to what SD TV was 10 years ago.


Actually yes really, or there's no point in buying into the format. You either drop a wad on a pricey HDTV or you keep your SDTV and DVDs. Buying the HDTV and an HD/BD player are not independent variables if you plan on investing in one of the formats in the first place. Therefore in the most affordable scenario, one has to drop $900 on a Westy LVM-37W3 (for instance) AND $250-$500 on a player.


3. Competition - DVD had similar competition also, as cable, OTA, and early satalite was also available. Movie theaters were more popular then too.


HD is competing against far more formidable foes if you will. Try the Internet, DVD, bigger telecoms, etc.


4. Obviously tons of people thought VHS was "good enough" because DVD sales didn't eclipse VHS for many years


True, a lot of people thought VHS was good enough. But they didn't also have to make multiple CE purchases to enjoy the improvement of DVD.


5. John Q - most probably didn't understand what a 4-head VCR was or what Progressive scan is on his DVD player or the difference between Composite and component cables but that hasn't stopped him from buying into the technologies.


These technologies are EXPENSIVE dude. These disks are EXPENSIVE. And people are pretty content with their SD quality.

I'm not your buddy Steeb.

Right - not my buddy - 100% abso-friggin-loutely correct on this one.

I did not say you made that remark at AVS. Do your have a split personality?

Seems you put something I said in quotes from your first post directed to me. I thought quotes meant that that you are reiterating what someone has posted and you are referring back to it.

Does you opinion at that forum differ from this forum?

Nope - today - same opinion. Let us say I have seen the error of my way at the other forum. An honest mistake which has been rectified.

So you took my question on your stance as an attack? You are more sensitive than I thought, it was simply an honest question because you were being quite hypocritical. I see your response as simply choosing to deflect without answering.

Of course

You know me well

Asked and answered

Hey what happened to my PPS - you miss it?

Not according to the Blockbuster manager's I know personally ;) .... They have/had a say as to wether they wanted to participate in having Blu-Ray titles in their stores or not... <snip>

LOL, maybe that's why they've been losing money hand over fist. Not that I expect any more, but the few times I chatted with a Blockbuster store mgr or asst. mgr.......well, let's just say there aren't many Nobel Prize's in their future.

TBH, I think it has to do with Sony heading up the BDA. If it were any other company (well, just about), I think you'd find a lot less animosity for BD. It's pretty much indisputable even for Sony fans, that SOE has effed up a lot of games (SWG, EQ2, the ongoing VG mess, etc.), a lot of people have problems with their customer service (me being one of them), and their gaming consoles have been notoriously unreliable (much like my Mustang, they are great pieces of equipment but highly unreliable). One could also make the argument that they are anti-consumer, but that is more opinion and conjecture and not fact.

These are all sticking points with me...I feel that their eff-ups stand out more than their achievements. With that being said, the PS3 has been a great BD player for me. I am hoping it is more reliable than my PS and PS2 were. And I am also willing to put animosity aside for now, and see how things pan out.

I agree. Sony probably gets targeted because they're the biggest - like MS or WalMart. With that being said, it's pretty hard to deny that Sony does what's best for Sony, oftentimes at the expense of its customers and/or business partners. They bring much of the heat on themselves. When you think of large corporations that have high customer satisfaction indexes, have high scores in perceived customer satisfaction and/or are considered socially/corporate responsible entities, Sony will most likely never even be a thought like the Dells, Starbucks or GE's out there.

I admit I have a distaste for Sony, but I am no boycotter just because I dislike the way they do business. I generally find their products overpriced relative to their features, but I still bought a PS3 because it was the cheapest Blu-ray player available, and it had the possibility of being FW upgraded. I've been very happy with it.

If it looks great who gives a crap....This is equivalent to yanking the tape out of VHS and measuring it....if it looks good...WHO CARES! I say this in regards to HD-DVD also

Agreed ... which was the point of my asking. ;)

Why the threadtitel changes every hour? Its hard enough to follow the 50 Posts per minuten ;)

Right - not my buddy - 100% abso-friggin-loutely correct on this one.

Good to see you aren't confused any more :)

Seems you put something I said in quotes from your first post directed to me. I thought quotes meant that that you are reiterating what someone has posted and you are referring back to it.

I did and I'm glad you finally understood it, congrads!


Nope - today - same opinion. Let us say I have seen the error of my way at the other forum. An honest mistake which as been rectified.

Well, good to see you finally got around to answer the question. Could have just had this response from the beginning if you weren't so sensitive ;)


Of course

You know me well

Asked and answered

Hey what happened to my PPS - you miss it?

Thanks for answering.

PSS. I don't ride horses. Are you implying that I'm your buddy steeb again?

You just have to look at the sales from some of the best selling br titles to get the right picture.

Assume 80000 titles sold for such a title to 100000 stand alone br player owners and 2million PS3 owners. Assuming that most HT buffs go with stand alones it's save to say that the PS3 contribution to sales is small in comparison.First I disagree since I don't know where you are getting this 2 million, given that vgchartz.com shows 1.49 million for "America". HD DVD probably has at least 300k with standalones and XBOX360s with add-ons. If you think that PS3s are providing way less than half of Blu-ray disc sales, then I would like to see your numbers based on those ratios.

--Darin

Not sure I follow this...but in any case DVD was so much more convenient than VHS, as well as having cheaper (and much smaller) media. This was on top of better PQ and AQ. It was a revolutionary change because it provided much greater convenience to the consumer. HD is evolutionary and that's it.



The reason you don't follow is because my statements are directed at someone elses arguements. Next time when you don't understand something move on. It will save you time and others the effort to help catch you up. :cool:

The reason you don't follow is because my statements are directed at someone elses arguements. Next time when you don't understand something move on. It will save you time and others the effort to help catch you up. :cool:

Actually no, it was just a completely retarded statement LMAO. American Revolution being compared to HD, LOL!!!!

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/foxyboxing.jpg
So this round goes to the blue team. There's going to be a reckoning come June 26th when a whole boatload of red exclusive catalog get released.

That next round might still go to the red team if they can weather this blow and get up before the count.
Taken from : Gizmodo article (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php)

Why the threadtitel changes every hour? Its hard enough to follow the 50 Posts per minuten ;)
Basically cause rdjam is going to complain every 3 pages until it says " A select and very limited amount of Blockbuster(Netflix FTW!!!) will stock a hand full of Blu Ray titles... But who goes to Blockbuster anyway? They dont matter! And besides a bunch will still stock HD DVD too."

If BD wins then I am fine with that. What I am not fine with is people saying that myself and other HD DVD supporters should go and dump our HD DVD decks for BD decks that cost 2X as much, deliver half the features and aren't even compatible with the final BD specification.

and there has been a lot of that said to that effect here in the past 48 hrs.

QFT

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/06/foxyboxing.jpg
So this round goes to the blue team. There's going to be a reckoning come June 26th when a whole boatload of red exclusive catalog get released.

That next round might still go to the red team if they can weather this blow and get up before the count.
Taken from : Gizmodo article (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php)

Text from the Gizmodo post:

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

The more tech savvy of us rent our stuff on Netflix or Blockbuster Online (which is still supporting both formats for now), but this announcement—covered in many mainstream media sources—had a big impact on people who actually rent at Blockbuster.

Any of you tipsters working at other retail outlets see something similar? Email us if you have. – Jason Chen

Thanks tipster!

Well, what does "norm" mean? I interpret it to mean the trend, and the trend is currently BD50. I can't say whether or not the 'norm' going back to Jan 07 was BD50, but I can say that the majority of titles released this year have been dual-layer: take that for what you will.

There's a thread around here that tracks how many releases have been single vs dual-layer this year, but I'm not going searching around for it right now; hopefully someone's got it at hand and will provide the link.




The video file is 34GB. The audio, Java, and whatever else make up the rest.

Thank you again; appreciate the info. I wasn't sure that the majority of titles this year were DL ... I'll see if I can find the link.

The cheapest BD player is the new Sony BDP-S300.

And it's profile 1.0 ... one of the saving graces of the PS3 has been that it has the *potential* to support profile 1.1 and maybe even 2.0 ... although no formal annoucements have been made.

Actually no, it was just a completely retarded statement LMAO. American Revolution being compared to HD, LOL!!!!


Actually most people beyond a specific inteligence quotient would realize that my reference was not meant to compare a physical WAR to a change in consumer product preference. It was meant to imply that what we call an event that is happening right now may not be the same thing that we call it later when we have the perspective of time and or distance. Hence the Great War is now known as World War I, the vietnam conflict is now a war. The home building boom was a bubble. I could go on but I don't want to fill your head with too many thoughts at once.

And it's profile 1.0 ... one of the saving graces of the PS3 has been that it has the *potential* to support profile 1.1 and maybe even 2.0 ... although no formal annoucements have been made.

I was just correcting the 'PS3 is the best/cheapest BD player', not the cheapest.

I could go on but I don't want to fill your head with too many thoughts at once.

HAHA go on brainstorming Billy Madison! LOL short list member if I've ever seen one.

Its not keeping me out. The format war is what has been keeping me on the sidelines.

Price is not keeping me out either. Having been a Betamax and then Laserdisc adopter, I'm waiting to see one come out on top. Assuming technology will continue to improve, I'm sure either format will give me a more than acceptable viewing experience.

I hope the retailers speed up the move toward a single format. All of the discussion here about technological superiority, cost of hardware and software, the effect of PS3, and full compliance will be moot soon enough.

How can BB make decision for comsumers?

I won't use BB anymore, no matter who wins.

HAHA go on brainstorming Billy Madison! LOL short list member if I've ever seen one.

No need, this response or yours shows your level clearly enough.

Price is not keeping me out either. Having been a Betamax and then Laserdisc adopter, I'm waiting to see one come out on top. Assuming technology will continue to improve, I'm sure either format will give me a more than acceptable viewing experience.

I hope the retailers speed up the move toward a single format. All of the discussion here about technological superiority, cost of hardware and software, the effect of PS3, and full compliance will be moot soon enough.

I went through both of those as well, except I never did buy into LD. This one really leaves me with a grittier, nastier feeling than the Beta v. VHS war did...although you'd think it wouldn't, considering the chances of more dual format players. It just seems the vitriol is worse this time around.

Is there a list of the stores that will be carrying BDs?

For that matter, is there a list of the original 250 stores that are carrying both formats?

My fear is that as sarcastic as your remark is, it has enough truth in it to scare the pants off of me .


Art

I wouldn't mind seeing more action movies released though. Give me Independance Day, Starship Troopers, Aliens...We need more titles meant for the PS3 crowd.. :)

I went through both of those as well, except I never did buy into LD. This one really leaves me with a grittier, nastier feeling than the Beta v. VHS war did...although you'd think it wouldn't, considering the chances of more dual format players. It just seems the vitriol is worse this time around.

Thank you Mr. Gore! (since he created the internet?!)

If renting BDs is such a great thing and PS3 owners are such big renters, why is Blockbuster only doing this in 20% of their stores?

LOL, maybe that's why they've been losing money hand over fist. Not that I expect any more, but the few times I chatted with a Blockbuster store mgr or asst. mgr.......well, let's just say there aren't many Nobel Prize's in their future.



I agree. Sony probably gets targeted because they're the biggest - like MS or WalMart. With that being said, it's pretty hard to deny that Sony does what's best for Sony, oftentimes at the expense of its customers and/or business partners. They bring much of the heat on themselves. When you think of large corporations that have high customer satisfaction indexes, have high scores in perceived customer satisfaction and/or are considered socially/corporate responsible entities, Sony will most likely never even be a thought like the Dells, Starbucks or GE's out there.

I admit I have a distaste for Sony, but I am no boycotter just because I dislike the way they do business. I generally find their products overpriced relative to their features, but I still bought a PS3 because it was the cheapest Blu-ray player available, and it had the possibility of being FW upgraded. I've been very happy with it.

A lot of people have bashed MSFT ruthlessly over the years, but you know what? Their founder is one of the biggest philanthropists in human history -- literally (top 15 IIRC, billions spent on the WHO and his own charity). That goes a long way in my book.

SNE has consistently left a bad taste in my mouth, but like you, I'm willing to forget about it for now and purchase high-quality content on their format. Plus, I have to say that the way they've operated this format war is impressive...despite setbacks, they have chugged on and made some great, ruthless maneuvers and "educated guesses".

If renting BDs is such a great thing and PS3 owners are such big renters, why is Blockbuster only doing this in 20% of their stores?

Because it currently amounts for less than 1% of their total business?

I just hope my local stores get them.

It appears retailers are reporting a record amount of HD-DVD hardware cancellations since yesterday's Blockbuster announcement.


Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

The more tech savvy of us rent our stuff on Netflix or Blockbuster Online (which is still supporting both formats for now), but this announcement—covered in many mainstream media sources—had a big impact on people who actually rent at Blockbuster.

Any of you tipsters working at other retail outlets see something similar? Email us if you have. – Jason Chen

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php

Anyone hearing of any other impact?

~Josh

Yeah, BB has way more than 1450 stores. If the article can't get a little fact like that right, why should one trust the rest?

If renting BDs is such a great thing and PS3 owners are such big renters, why is Blockbuster only doing this in 20% of their stores?

Edit: My numbers were way off due to a calculation error. See my revised post for corrected figures.

BDP-S300 is sold out at Amazon, Crutchfield and J&R. My local best buy and sony style stores also sold out, best buy was on its 2nd shipment when it sold out. Hmmmm indeed.

They're rolling it out in 1700 corporate owned BBIs. Some fun facts:

They operate 5194 stores, out of which 2028 is located in the US, 3,166 is foreign.

Out of the 2028 in the US, 939 is franchise. So 1089 is corporate owned in the US.

If I had to guess, pretty much all of the corporate owned BBIs (1089) in the US will have BDs, with 611 foreign BBIs having BDs.

I just read that 4000 stores were non-franchise, damn, we need some definitive numbers on this stuff...

They're rolling it out in 1700 corporate owned BBIs. Some fun facts:

They operate 5194 stores, out of which 2028 is located in the US, 3,166 is foreign.

Out of the 2028 in the US, 939 is franchise. So 1089 is corporate owned in the US.

If I had to guess, pretty much all of the corporate owned BBIs (1089) in the US will have BDs, with 611 foreign BBIs having BDs.
The info I have says right at 8300 with 5000 or so in the US.

I respectfully disagree. I think it's hogwash to imply that a 445k title sales lead implies any sort of "winning". (And I'd be saying the same thing if the numbers were reversed.) There's no clear winner here.

445,000 titles is nothing. Nothing.

Yes, BD is currently in the lead. But that lead is not even remotely as big as we had been lead to believe. I've been seeing daily posts on this forum for 6 months now talking about the "widening gap" between the formats and the "sinking ship" that is HD DVD. Apparently, during those all those days, BD was selling an average of whopping 2400 extra titles a day. That's it. 2400 titles/day over the other format.

I have more than 2400 DVDs in my personal collection for cripe's sake... as do many folks here. These numbers are so trivial as to be virtually meaningless.


No one is winning the war so far. You can bet that none of these companies on either side are dancing in the street with numbers like these -- and none of them are ready to throw in the towel either. It's wide open.

For the gap to be nothing, there needs to be some indication that the trend will turn around. BD has more studio support, lower priced players coming, and this Blockbuster situation.

I think it will be interesting to track the effect of the Blockbuster announcement in-terms of this format war.

From what I am reading on other boards and AVS it appears it is having a major impact.

What else are people hearing/seeing?

~Josh

LOL, maybe that's why they've been losing money hand over fist. Not that I expect any more, but the few times I chatted with a Blockbuster store mgr or asst. mgr.......well, let's just say there aren't many Nobel Prize's in their future.



I agree. Sony probably gets targeted because they're the biggest - like MS or WalMart. With that being said, it's pretty hard to deny that Sony does what's best for Sony, oftentimes at the expense of its customers and/or business partners. They bring much of the heat on themselves. When you think of large corporations that have high customer satisfaction indexes, have high scores in perceived customer satisfaction and/or are considered socially/corporate responsible entities, Sony will most likely never even be a thought like the Dells, Starbucks or GE's out there.

I admit I have a distaste for Sony, but I am no boycotter just because I dislike the way they do business. I generally find their products overpriced relative to their features, but I still bought a PS3 because it was the cheapest Blu-ray player available, and it had the possibility of being FW upgraded. I've been very happy with it.

They must be doing something right as the Sony Brand carries hefty weight as CE companies goes. They have the top selling brand of Bravia LCD TVs and Rear Projection LCDs even though they are 20% more expensive than the competition. I have a few Sony products and I am very happy with the quality, including a Cybershot and PS3.

In my experiences, I found them to be very consumer friendly with regard to warranties and replacements.

I think it will be interesting to track the effect of the Blockbuster announcement in-terms of this format war.

From what I am reading on other boards and AVS it appears it is having a major impact.

What else are people hearing/seeing?

~Josh
If you can consider the opinons of .00004532% of the video buying population a major impact. AS far as I can tell the general public is still completely unaware that either HD format exists.

Topics merged. Bashing posts removed. Warnings not sent, but you know who you are ;)

If you can consider the opinons of .00004532% of the video buying population a major impact. AS far as I can tell the general public is still completely unaware that either HD format exists.

Many in the general public heard about blockbuster supporting blu-ray on their local and national news last night.

They must be doing something right as the Sony Brand carries hefty weight as CE companies goes. They have the top selling brand of Bravia LCD TVs and Rear Projection LCDs even though they are 20% more expensive than the competition. I have a few Sony products and I am very happy with the quality, including a Cybershot and PS3.

In my experiences, I found them to be very consumer friendly with regard to warranties and replacements.

As far as I know Samsung is the top selling display.

As far as I know Samsung is the top selling display.

Samsung Sells More Digital Televisions Than Any Other Manufacturer in the United States

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2007_Jan_7/ai_n17095171

Sony is a well respected and good selling brand, but Samsung appears to be top dog.

As far as I know Samsung is the top selling display.

Nope, Sony Bravia was the number one worldwide brand in TVs last year, and this year is predicted to outsell all other brands by a considerable margin.

Many in the general public heard about blockbuster supporting blu-ray on their local and national news last night.

And when and if they find out that it will cost them $400 watch them, that will be that. What all of this comes down to is PS3 owners renting new release BDs at BB, and the ones near me have horrible selections and are very slow to get new movies. It's purely a PS3/relatively new release thing ATM.

And when and if they find out that it will cost them $400 watch them, that will be that. What all of this comes down to is PS3 owners renting new release BDs at BB, and the ones near me have horrible selections and are very slow to get new movies. It's purely a PS3/relatively new release thing ATM.

ATM is right, this will have a negative impact on new HD DVD player sales (maybe already is), so the gap will continue to increase.

When there is a clear winner more people will buy in, even at $400.

Many in the general public heard about blockbuster supporting blu-ray on their local and national news last night.

Sometimes I wish our media was state-run...just kidding of course. :) I'm pretty much resigned to whatever happens and will enjoy content on either format, as long as I can get a dual-format player down the road.

If you can consider the opinons of .00004532% of the video buying population a major impact. AS far as I can tell the general public is still completely unaware that either HD format exists.


One would think so, but the reality is BLu Ray is becoming known much more than HD DVD by the general public even if it has yet to be purchased. TV ads and the PS3 have assured that outcome.

They must be doing something right as the Sony Brand carries hefty weight as CE companies goes. They have the top selling brand of Bravia LCD TVs and Rear Projection LCDs even though they are 20% more expensive than the competition. I have a few Sony products and I am very happy with the quality, including a Cybershot and PS3.

In my experiences, I found them to be very consumer friendly with regard to warranties and replacements.

I don't disagree that Sony usually produces quality products, but their value is subjective. Sure their XBR line is generally regarded as one of the best, but their premium is enormous. I had a Trinitron F520 CRT that is to this day probably the best CRT ever made for a desktop environment. Like I said, value is subjective.

It's great that you've had good experiences with them, as I imagine most people's are, but they've had enough problems (both real and perceived) that they're not highly regarded as a consumer-friendly company.

Like: Breach, Smokin Aces, Children of Men, Breakfast Club, Lost in Translation and Midnight Run? And that's just a few recent ones.

Although your tone does sound rather personal, thanks for your opinions ;) Too bad the majority of the BD releases available for purchase are so 2006, then...

I was thinking recent recent, like Liar Liar (3/5), Daylight (3/5). Bruce Almighty (3/5), Harsh Times (3/5). The River (3/5)

You mention Lost in Translation (3.5/5) and Midnight Run (3/5).

Is that your new bar for image quality? Keep in mind these are from Peter Bracke, who loves HD DVDs.

By comparison, The Fifth Element BD, commonly regarded as a disaster of MPEG2 encoding and HD mastering.... 3/5.

Congratulations Universal...

There are plenty of 2007 releases on BD... so I am not sure what your second comment actually means...

What else are people hearing/seeing?

~Josh
My bosses wife, who is as untechsuave as they come, commented to me that Blockbuster announced that they went with my Blu-ray thingy. I think that is pretty telling of how much of an impact this news will have on the j6p's of the world.

I haven't rented from Blockbuster since their whole WS/FS fiasco, but with this news, and if they keep a decent selection I'll drop Netflix infavor of BB Total Access. They are also supposedly dropping the price a buck or two to compete with Netflix. But to be fair, Netflix has been awesome in terms of BD rental for myself at least.

So chinese players are HD DVDs ps3?

Hmm, aren't their chinese BD players too?

Of course if HD DVD does take the lead again I will smash Mspeed6's PS3 on youtube

BTW I thought Sony was the one who said when the war started ;)

Do you have some timeframe or benchmark in mind? The benchmark for me is Universal making HD content for my player, what's yours?

I'm not sure, I was just using that as an example ... I'll tell you what though, if I can pick up an inexpensive Profile 1.1 [Chinese] Blu-Ray player Holiday 2007, I'll be the first one in line ... ;)

As far as the Sony thing ... yah, they've gone ahead and declared it over several times ... up until recently, when they said it's just gotten started. I can't keep track of their position anymore; and, apparently, neither can they. :p

I think it will be interesting to track the effect of the Blockbuster announcement in-terms of this format war.

From what I am reading on other boards and AVS it appears it is having a major impact.

What else are people hearing/seeing?

~Josh

Remember that Poll over at MSNBC from yesterday? The one started because of the BB announcement. As MSNBC is a news website as opposed to a CE oriented site. Here are the latest numbers:

Over 13,500 voted . . . and IMO we are at a stalemate:

41% = BD
31% = HD DVD
28% = Sitting On The Fence

So Josh - what's your read on this?

I think purchasing imported discs is going to eat into any cost advantage pretty quickly.

I wonder if Blockbuster will carry The Prestige on HD DVD?

It wasn't that expensive, it cost as much as a combo format! Imagine a Combo format Plus Tax and that is what I paid. So no it didn't eat into the cost advantage, lol

Remember that Poll over at MSNBC from yesterday? The one started because of the BB announcement. As MSNBC is a news website as opposed to a CE oriented site. Here are the latest numbers:

Over 13,500 voted . . . and IMO we are at a stalemate:

41% = BD
31% = HD DVD
28% = Sitting On The Fence

So Josh - what's your read on this?

internet polling is very unreliable; sample size is small and it is not random.

ATM is right, this will have a negative impact on new HD DVD player sales (maybe already is), so the gap will continue to increase.

When there is a clear winner more people will buy in, even at $400.
IYNSHO, or link?

internet polling is very unreliable; sample size is small and it is not random.

I was kind of surprised to see that high % for blu-ray considering it is a Microsoft related site. Then again in another poll here the tide seems to be turning as well, I can't remember the last time blu-ray came ahead in a poll:

View Poll Results: Would you like the HDM format war to end in a stalemate?

I prefer BD. I wouldn't like a stalemate. 91 52.60%
I prefer BD. I'd like a stalemate. 4 2.31%
I prefer HD DVD. I wouldn't like a stalemate. 51 29.48%
I prefer HD DVD. I'd like a stalemate. 27 15.61%

I just dont get why some people here are so format defiant...Other people seem so hostile over this....That's the thing i find hard to grasp about this...



Simple ... BDs are vastly superior technology.


Let's pretend your statement were 100% undisputable fact.

It still doesn't explain why someone would get hostile over movies. Optical media doesn't cause personality disorders. Those kinds of issues come from within.

There are some people here, on both sides, who are campaigning and crusading non-stop, night and day, as if the outcome of this is going is determine their ability to be happy the rest of their lives. It's a little frightening. You know how when you read something, you form a sort of mental image of that person? I keep seeing these sickly figures sitting in the dark with veins showing through translucent skin from lack of sunlight, leg muscles atrophied from never leaving the chair at the computer desk, and their fingers permanently deformed into the "home key" position. Most of these little gnomes don't even get to watch any of the movies they're obsessing over, because they can't leave the forums long enough to do anything else.

Not thinking or speaking of anyone in particular, of course.

There are some people here, on both sides, who are campaigning and crusading non-stop, night and day, as if the outcome of this is going is determine their ability to be happy the rest of their lives. It's a little frightening.
All too true.

"Text from the Gizmodo post:


Quote:
Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

The more tech savvy of us rent our stuff on Netflix or Blockbuster Online (which is still supporting both formats for now), but this announcement—covered in many mainstream media sources—had a big impact on people who actually rent at Blockbuster.

Any of you tipsters working at other retail outlets see something similar? Email us if you have. – Jason Chen

Thanks tipster!"

VV (very viral) uncomfirmable BD plant

Let's pretend your statement were 100% undisputable fact.

It still doesn't explain why someone would get hostile over movies. Optical media doesn't cause personality disorders. Those kinds of issues come from within.

There are some people here, on both sides, who are campaigning and crusading non-stop, night and day, as if the outcome of this is going is determine their ability to be happy the rest of their lives. It's a little frightening. You know how when you read something, you form a sort of mental image of that person? I keep seeing these sickly figures sitting in the dark with veins showing through translucent skin from lack of sunlight, leg muscles atrophied from never leaving the chair at the computer desk, and their fingers permanently deformed into the "home key" position. Most of these little gnomes don't even get to watch any of the movies they're obsessing over, because they can't leave the forums long enough to do anything else.

Not thinking or speaking of anyone in particular, of course.
This should be a sticky

internet polling is very unreliable; sample size is small and it is not random.

Poof - because the results don't jive with your thinking all of a sudden . . .

"Poll results are no good"

This sounds like the posts from way back in this thread where some showed a graph and said:

"BD titles are less expensive than HD DVD titles"

And that piece of fiction was laid to rest.

So, over 13,500 voters isn't enough to get a read on peoples thoughts on the announcement and how it affects the war?

But 200 here are?

FUD

VV (very viral) uncomfirmable BD plant

Isn't all the bad news for HD DVD just viral marketing?

What about the good news for HD DVD? Is that somehow different?

Poof - because the results don't jive with your thinking all of a sudden . . .

"Poll results are no good"

This sounds like the posts from way back in this thread where some showed a graph and said:

"BD titles are less expensive than HD DVD titles"

And that piece of fiction was laid to rest.

So, over 13,500 voters isn't enough to get a read on peoples thoughts on the announcement and how it affects the war?

But 200 here are?

FUD

frankly i didn't read the results since either way they are invalid as is poll here. there is zero information in it. now if you were to poll 5k who bought hdtv's within last 6mo's and currently don't own an hd media player about their preference it would be intersting.

Isn't all the bad news for HD DVD just viral marketing?

What about the good news for HD DVD? Is that somehow different?

Speaking of good news for HD DVD we do have some you know. It isn't all BD oriented.

Toshiba just announced that they are now putting HD DVD drives in their laptops.

In 2006 Toshiba sold over 8.5 million laptops. Projected sales for 2007 - 9.5 million.

Thats almost 800,000 new HD DVD player owners each month. Wonder how many will start buying and renting HD DVD's to play on airplanes and in hotel rooms when they travel.

And guess who just gave up their HD DVD walk in business in 1450 stores across the country?

Oh and didn't you know - Big Business is the largest buyer of high end laptops that are given to executives and marketing/sales people.

Guess everything isn't all Blu after all . . .

Maybe I should start a thread?

I just read that 4000 stores were non-franchise, damn, we need some definitive numbers on this stuff...


A business summary of BBI

Blockbuster, Inc., together with its subsidiaries, operates and franchises entertainment-related stores in the United States and internationally. It offers prerecorded videos, as well as video games for in-store rental, sale and trade, and also sells other entertainment-related merchandise. The company operates in the home video and home video game industries, which include in-home movie, such as theatrical movie, television series, and direct-to-video product; and game entertainment offered by retail outlets, online retailers, cable and satellite providers, and via digital distribution over the Internet. Blockbuster also operates an online service offering rental of movies delivered by mail.

As of December 31, 2006, it operated 5,194 stores, including 939 franchised stores under the BLOCKBUSTER and RHINO VIDEO GAMES brands in the United States and its territories; and 3,166 stores, including 870 franchised stores under the BLOCKBUSTER brand and other brand names owned by the company located in 22 markets outside of the United States. The company was founded in 1982 and is headquartered in Dallas, Texas.

Edit: Crap. My numbers were way off due to a calculation error. I misread that the 5194 was total stores worldwide. The 5194 is only for the US. The # of non-franchise stores in the US was 4,255 (5194 - 939). The number of non franchise stores that are foreign is 2296 (3166 - 870).

If the 1700 stores to offer BD are all in the US, it's about 40% of the franchised stores.

If you're looking at world-wide non-franchise stores including the US, it's about 26% of the stores.

If you include the worldwide franchised stores & non-franchised stores, it's about 20% of BBI's total stores.

Sorry for my earlier error.

Toshiba just announced that they are now putting HD DVD drives in their laptops.

In 2006 Toshiba sold over 8.5 million laptops. Projected sales for 2007 - 9.5 million.


So you are epecting people to watch movies on their laptops instead of their HDTV?

BTW I bought a Toshiba laptop for my wife about 18 months ago. It was the crappiest laptop she ever owned. Worse even than the previous Dell. We won't ever own another Toshiba laptop.

idea: limit discussion to the Blockbuster announcement

how did we get on Toshiba & Sony laptops? [rhetorical]

please stay on topic

Thanks

Speaking of good news for HD DVD we do have some you know. It isn't all BD oriented.

Toshiba just announced that they are now putting HD DVD drives in their laptops.

In 2006 Toshiba sold over 8.5 million laptops. Projected sales for 2007 - 9.5 million.

Thats almost 800,000 new HD DVD player owners each month. Wonder how many will start buying and renting HD DVD's to play on airplanes and in hotel rooms when they travel.

And guess who just gave up their HD DVD walk in business in 1450 stores across the country?

Oh and didn't you know - Big Business is the largest buyer of high end laptops that are given to executives and marketing/sales people.

Guess everything isn't all Blu after all . . .

Maybe I should start a thread?


Will this help? Sure. But in a title starved HD market, they are more likely to continue renting DVDs FROM BLOCKBUSTER for awhile so I don't expect those to translate direct to rentals/purchases very quickly. I mean chose to rent FROM one of BLOCKBUSTER's 250 stores and chose from 269 HD DVD titles or the bajillion DVD titles? Honestly, HD is still for the home as far as I am concerned because that's where it really shines.

We'd have to look back at the inclusion of DVD drives in laptop and find some type of attachrate for those in the initial times to get any kind of feel for what that will do.

I am often one of those travellers as well and use a laptop. I occasionally watch TV shows on my laptop, but more often than not, watch one of the PPV movies that is available on the TV in the hotel rooms. (keep mind out of gutter). So again, while it's a great move, I don't expect it to translate to much at all. In fact, it might tarnish that oh so precious "attach rate" that you HD DVD folks marvel at (for the first little while anyhow).

Also, do you know if the drive is the only option or can they choose to select the DVD drive/writer on its own for -$50 or -$100 or something.. because if they offer a choice, they may very well choose the cheaper.

Cal

edit: Sorry Mark. Had already posted when I read your post

From reading this if true, Fox might go format nutrual.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/19/halo-on-the-ps3-not-the-360-thanks-to-blu-ray/

Speaking of good news for HD DVD we do have some you know. It isn't all BD oriented.

Toshiba just announced that they are now putting HD DVD drives in their laptops.

In 2006 Toshiba sold over 8.5 million laptops. Projected sales for 2007 - 9.5 million.

Thats almost 800,000 new HD DVD player owners each month. Wonder how many will start buying and renting HD DVD's to play on airplanes and in hotel rooms when they travel.

And guess who just gave up their HD DVD walk in business in 1450 stores across the country?

Oh and didn't you know - Big Business is the largest buyer of high end laptops that are given to executives and marketing/sales people.

Guess everything isn't all Blu after all . . .

Maybe I should start a thread?


My guess would be not to many. They will continue to use SD DVDs. People often argue that you really need a 40+ inch TV to really appreciate the HD experience I dont imagine that a 17inch monitor will make a large enough difference to spend $35 on a combo disc in stead of an $11.99 DVD

From reading this if true, Fox might go format nutrual.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/19/halo-on-the-ps3-not-the-360-thanks-to-blu-ray/
Most likely not, rather I wager it is a great way for MS to try out a VOD exclusive title for XBox Live.

From reading this if true, Fox might go format nutrual.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/19/halo-on-the-ps3-not-the-360-thanks-to-blu-ray/



unrelated.

My guess would be not to many. They will continue to use SD DVDs. People often argue that you really need a 40+ inch TV to really appreciate the HD experience I dont imagine that a 17inch monitor will make a large enough difference to spend $35 on a combo disc in stead of an $11.99 DVD

Well it's more like $27-$29 for the HD combo vs. $12-15 for the DVD, but I get your point. 2x the cost for the SD and people would laugh. Even I laugh at that kind of money for a combo, given the previous experiences I've had with The Matrix Reloaded and The Good Shepherd.

From reading this if true, Fox might go format nutrual.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/19/halo-on-the-ps3-not-the-360-thanks-to-blu-ray/

Not neutral so much, but I suspect that any deal with MS over Halo included it being released on HDDVD if it's still around.

And you think there will be only HD DVD Chinese players.....why?

Actually, I hope there are cheap Profile 1.1 Chinese Blu-ray players too ... ;)

From reading this if true, Fox might go format nutrual.

http://www.ps3fanboy.com/2007/06/19/halo-on-the-ps3-not-the-360-thanks-to-blu-ray/

1. What the heck does this have to do with Blockbuster?
2. This story was debunked in a thread yesterday in the blu-ray forum.

frankly i didn't read the results since either way they are invalid as is poll here. there is zero information in it. now if you were to poll 5k who bought hdtv's within last 6mo's and currently don't own an hd media player about their preference it would be intersting.

Or maybe we should poll 5000 BD owners and ask them how many would switch to HD DVD. Then the results will look like this:

No - 4990
Yes - 10

Then of course the results would be super for BD right?

I see. To get the results you want or expect - then just adjust the poll questions until they fit with your desired result.

Makes sense to me. :D

Or maybe we should poll 5000 BD owners and ask them how many would switch to HD DVD. Then the results will look like this:

No - 4990
Yes - 10

Then of course the results would be super for BD right?

I see. To get the results you want or expect - then just adjust the poll questions until they fit with your desired result.

Makes sense to me. :D


you misread my post. here is my proposition again:
poll 5k who bought hdtv's within last 6mo's and currently don't own an hd media player about their preference.

these people are potential hd media player buyers, see which format they prefer.

you misread my post. here is my proposition again:
poll 5k who bought hdtv's within last 6mo's and currently don't own an hd media player about their preference.

these people are potential hd media player buyers, see which format they prefer.

Quick answer - they don't have a preference - they don't own an HD player. :D

Quick answer - they don't have a preference - they don't own an HD player. :D

in that case hddvd is dead :D

For your consideration, another title edit.

For your consideration, another title edit.

Works for me.. I hope for your sake that makes a few others happy!

For your consideration, another title edit.

I liked the one with the bunnies and panda bears better. :(

Poof - because the results don't jive with your thinking all of a sudden . . .

"Poll results are no good"

This sounds like the posts from way back in this thread where some showed a graph and said:

"BD titles are less expensive than HD DVD titles"

And that piece of fiction was laid to rest.

So, over 13,500 voters isn't enough to get a read on peoples thoughts on the announcement and how it affects the war?

But 200 here are?

FUD

Actually the disclaimer with the survey clearly states that it is not a poll. A poll involves a random selection of participants. Besides that, you do know what the MS in MSNBC stands for, right ?

Whenever Microsoft wants to spin a perception they create a survey, then pimp it on xbox360 fanboy sites to get the desired response.

Actually the disclaimer with the survey clearly states that it is not a poll. A poll involves a random selection of participants. Besides that, you do know what the MS in MSNBC stands for, right ?

Whenever Microsoft wants to spin a perception they create a survey, then pimp it on xbox360 fanboy sites to get the desired response.

Wow ... these conspiracy theories abound from both sides ... I sure hope these AVS Forum Servers run on Linux, because if they don't ... Ruh-roh ...

Hello to all AVS members,

I don't think I have ever posted on here, even if I have, it must have been a while ago. The only time I come on here is before making an AV purchase just to see what views the pros have of a certain electronic equipment.

Upon picking up todays newspaper I have read the news of which this thread is about. I thought about coming here just to see what reaction you guys have in regards to this, as I am in the market for a High Definition DVD player.

With the purchase of an HDTV just over a year ago, I realized that a High Definition DVD player will eventually be needed. This "war" that has been going on between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is what kept me from actually purchasing one. I don't have a lot of money but I am not hurting either, therefore when making a purchase I try to be as certain as possible. As the saying goes "I'm not that rich to buy cheap things" :).

I don't favor one over the other. I would like for one to be a standard already so I can finally make a decision and start enjoying the beauty of this technology. It seems like this step is a step closer to that.


My apologize for grammatical errors, English is my third language.

Norbi,

PS. It amazes me, that a human being, can be so loyal towards a company/corporation who doesn't return the favor but cares most about the "end-of-the-day" income.

Hello to all AVS members,

I don't think I have ever posted on here, even if I have, it must have been a while ago. The only time I come on here is before making an AV purchase just to see what views the pros have of a certain electronic equipment.

Upon picking up todays newspaper I have read the news of which this thread is about. I thought about coming here just to see what reaction you guys have in regards to this, as I am in the market for a High Definition DVD player.

With the purchase of an HDTV just over a year ago, I realized that a High Definition DVD player will eventually be needed. This "war" that has been going on between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray is what kept me from actually purchasing one. I don't have a lot of money but I am not hurting either, therefore when making a purchase I try to be as certain as possible. As the saying goes "I'm not that rich to buy cheap things" :).

I don't favor one over the other. I would like for one to be a standard already so I can finally make a decision and start enjoying the beauty of this technology. It seems like this step is a step closer to that.


My apologize for grammatical errors, English is my third language.

Norbi,

PS. It amazes me, that a human being, can be so loyal towards a company/corporation who doesn't return the favor but cares most about the "end-of-the-day" income.

Good luck in whatever decision you make bud. Or, perhaps, you may want to wait for the Samsung dual player hehe.

PS. It amazes me, that a human being, can be so loyal towards a company/corporation who doesn't return the favor but cares most about the "end-of-the-day" income.

Exactly. If hd-dvd had the majority of hardware/software companys and had a major lead with blu-ray no chance of catching up, i'd be singing hd-dvd praises left/right. I just want the war to be over so that ALL of us, the people who really matter (High Def movie fans), get to enjoy HD movies sooner and cheaper then ever. With a war going on, all it does is keep HD movie fans like yourself on the sidelines. I understand and it shows how much influence that blockbuster news did to the average consumer. Thanks for the post!

Interesting.
I go away for a day and the thread has grown tremendously with some posters posting all day long. Now unless these people are on vacation or independently wealthy, it sure seems that some must be on the payroll to be able to post all day long....

:eek:

Interesting.
I go away for a day and the thread has grown tremendously with some posters posting all day long. Now unless these people are on vacation or independently wealthy, it sure seems that some must be on the payroll to be able to post all day long....

:eek:
Kids & the PS3 effect.

Interesting.
I go away for a day and the thread has grown tremendously with some posters posting all day long. Now unless these people are on vacation or independently wealthy, it sure seems that some must be on the payroll to be able to post all day long....

:eek:

Operation phydra strikes again. As a hynandra insider, i can confirm that all these posters are not on our payroll. It's likely they do volunteer work for us.

Hmmmm...the theme from HDDVD supporters is that the Blockbuster decision isn't very important...funny that the thread got almost 1700 posts in a couple of days then..

(back on the fence myself..)

Hmmmm...the theme from HDDVD supporters is that the Blockbuster decision isn't very important...funny that the thread got almost 1700 posts in a couple of days then..
(back on the fence myself..)
Its kinda like the whos who from Bluray.com, sad but true........

"Text from the Gizmodo post:


Quote:
Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems. A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

The more tech savvy of us rent our stuff on Netflix or Blockbuster Online (which is still supporting both formats for now), but this announcement—covered in many mainstream media sources—had a big impact on people who actually rent at Blockbuster.

Any of you tipsters working at other retail outlets see something similar? Email us if you have. – Jason Chen

Thanks tipster!"

VV (very viral) uncomfirmable BD plant

Those still denying this isn't a huge victory for Blu-Ray are in denial. And perhaps drowning in it as well...

For your consideration, another title edit.

Title seems backwards to me. Why put the smaller, less important number first??? Makes the story sound much less important that it is. :confused:

Title seems backwards to me. Why put the smaller, less important number first??? Makes the story sound much less important that it is. :confused:

Its the only way the HD-DVD fanatics will stop PMing the Moderators 100 times a minute. For the sanity of the mods just let it be ;)

Those still denying this isn't a huge victory for Blu-Ray are in denial. And perhaps drowning in it as well...

And all BD "supporters" who believe it . . . .

Forgot to look at the very first sentence . . . .

Which is totally incorrect

So how can the rest of the article be looked at being truthful when the first sentence isnt?

Talk about denial!

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores is having a bigger impact than it seems

Duh . . . . . what's wrong with this picture?

Title seems backwards to me. Why put the smaller, less important number first??? Makes the story sound much less important that it is. :confused:


All that is going to do is make rdjam come up with yet another conspiracy theory that the avs-forum prefers HD-DVD over Blu-Ray and is using viral messaging by the actual wording of the thread. ;)

All kidding aside, the title should actually read Blockbuster goes Blu since 1,450 stores is only the beginning. Does this forum or anyone else really think that number is going to stay that way for long.. So for every new store that gets added we have to ask the mods to change the thread to fit the proper amount of stores.

The title should read : Blockbuster has chosen Blu-Ray to win this format war.

That is simple and to the point.. THe initial 250 stores involved in the trial are the only ones remaining with both which should not be first in the title since that occured long ago when this trial started. The title makes it seem like Blockbuster putting HD-DVD in 250 stores is a new thing.. At least that is what I would think if I read that thread and didn't know any better...

I just don't see why someone would prefer HD-DVD over BluRay. BD is a better designed disc with higher potential quality and it has more studio support. Better in my book.

I don't get it either. It would be one thing if Sony was forcing us to adopt an inferior format than HD-DVD (i.e. less capacity and less bandwidth). If this was true I'd be pissed big time, but it is just the opposite. I'm just so pleased that it looks like the technically superior format will win. In the long run, Blu-ray is better for everyone (except Toshiba, of course).

Its kinda like the whos who from Bluray.com, sad but true........

I'm sure, but there sure are a lot of hddvd fanboys posting too. If they didn't continue to downplay this - the br fanboys would probably wind down their posting too.

Personally I think it is a big blow for HDDVD, but it won't lose them the war by itself. HDDVD mostly keeps alive because of good player pricing, the fact that Universal sticks with them and some BR supporting/neutral studios failing to keep up their end for BR (namely Fox and Warner). If one of these advantages go away, HDDVD is in serious trouble.

King Kong HD DVD
DD+ 1.5 mbps @ 3 hours and 8 minutes needs 2.12 GB capacity

Dolby True HD 16/48 1.4 mbps ABR @ 3 hours and 8 minutes needs 1.97 GB capacity

The entire "No room for TrueHD" has been shot down repeatedly. The Blu-boys just say it can't fit, then the HD DVD guys like me use facts to show that it could of fit. Universal studios has no more than 6 movies with TrueHD out of their >100 HD DVD titles.

can you show me one HD DVD with DTHD and no DD+? Can you tell me how you know the exact bitrate of the DTHD track that does not exist

can you show me one HD DVD with DTHD and no DD+? Can you tell me how you know the exact bitrate of the DTHD track that does not exist

Well even if they have to add a DD+ track, they dont have to add a 1,5mbit DD+ track.

Interesting.
I go away for a day and the thread has grown tremendously with some posters posting all day long. Now unless these people are on vacation or independently wealthy, it sure seems that some must be on the payroll to be able to post all day long....
:eek:
LMAO! This thread's on Red Bull - it's grown faster than any other I can remember. Working from home has its benefits. ;)
Its kinda like the whos who from Bluray.com, sad but true........
He he. If you want a good laugh, check out the Sony Protection Group (http://www.sonyprotectiongroup.com/). I linked to it from somewhere and had a ball reading the fanaticism/juvenile mentality. Highly recommend for a great laugh.
For your consideration, another title edit.
I think this is the best part of this thread. The title has changed about 10 times!. Someone else hit the nail on the head with their satirical remark about the title.
Its the only way the HD-DVD fanatics will stop PMing the Moderators 100 times a minute. For the sanity of the mods just let it be ;)
Heeeeey, I only sent 74! :p

I don't get it either. It would be one thing if Sony was forcing us to adopt an inferior format than HD-DVD (i.e. less capacity and less bandwidth). If this was true I'd be pissed big time, but it is just the opposite. I'm just so pleased that it looks like the technically superior format will win. In the long run, Blu-ray is better for everyone (except Toshiba, of course).

some consumers just don't like Sony..and now this BD+ DRM crap is about to go into effect.

Well even if they have to add a DD+ track, they dont have to add a 1,5mbit DD+ track.

but then the math does not work any more, does it? (not that it ever did in the first place)

some consumers just don't like Sony..and now this BD+ DRM crap is about to go into effect.

If all you do is buy/rent movies, you will never even see it. There wont be a BD+ loading screen with a "now loading DRM" progress bar. The only ones affected will be pirates. Filthy pirates.

I just don't see why someone would prefer HD-DVD over BluRay. BD is a better designed disc with higher potential quality and it has more studio support. Better in my book.

It's because BD is a "Sony Format."

Some specs

King Kong HD DVD
DD+ 1.5 mbps @ 3 hours and 8 minutes needs 2.12 GB capacity

Dolby True HD 16/48 1.4 mbps ABR @ 3 hours and 8 minutes needs 1.97 GB capacity

The entire "No room for TrueHD" has been shot down repeatedly. The Blu-boys just say it can't fit, then the HD DVD guys like me use facts to show that it could of fit. Universal studios has no more than 6 movies with TrueHD out of their >100 HD DVD titles.I'm not sure if you actually understand the issue with King Kong and are trying to deceive or whether you don't understand the issue. Making something fit with the current video encoding means making it fit both in the space and the bandwidth. Do you understand that much? Good professional compressionists do. If you understand that, then you would understand that showing it fits in the space and ignoring the bandwidth is deceptive when it likely wouldn't fit in the bandwidth without doing a different video encoding. I thought we had been over this, but I've seen you playing this game to show that it fits in the 30GB while ignoring the bandwidth and I'm wondering if you are going to continue doing that.

You can get mad at me if you want to, but you are responsible for not misleading people here and if you don't comprehend the bandwidth issue with changing from a 1.5Mbps CBR track to a VBR track with possibly 1.4Mbps ABR and likely much higher peaks than that, then you should figure it out or ask and quit making the claim you made above. I was surprised when Robert made what seemed like such a basic mistake and it seems like it has continued for a while now despite one or more of us pointing that mistake out.

--Darin

Its the only way the HD-DVD fanatics will stop PMing the Moderators 100 times a minute. For the sanity of the mods just let it be ;)

It's funny 'cuz it's true!

;)

Poof - because the results don't jive with your thinking all of a sudden . . .

"Poll results are no good"

This sounds like the posts from way back in this thread where some showed a graph and said:

"BD titles are less expensive than HD DVD titles"

And that piece of fiction was laid to rest.

So, over 13,500 voters isn't enough to get a read on peoples thoughts on the announcement and how it affects the war?

But 200 here are?

FUD

Sorry but desmond212 is absolutely right. Internet polls are a joke. MSNBC ran a poll a few days before the 2004 election "who would you vote for" and Kerry ended up with about 70%.



On a side note, I really hope this war ends before my ignore list fills up.

I'm not sure if you actually understand the issue with King Kong and are trying to deceive or whether you don't understand the issue. Making something fit with the current video encoding means making it fit both in the space and the bandwidth. Do you understand that much? Good professional compressionists do. If you understand that, then you would understand that showing it fits in the space and ignoring the bandwidth is deceptive when it likely wouldn't fit in the bandwidth without doing a different video encoding. I thought we had been over this, but I've seen you playing this game to show that it fits in the 30GB while ignoring the bandwidth and I'm wondering if you are going to continue doing that.

You can get mad at me if you want to, but you are responsible for not misleading people here and if you don't comprehend the bandwidth issue with changing from a 1.5Mbps CBR track to a VBR track with possibly 1.4Mbps ABR and likely much higher peaks than that, then you should figure it out or ask and quit making the claim you made above. I was surprised when Robert made what seemed like such a basic mistake and it seems like it has continued for a while now despite one or more of us pointing that mistake out.

--Darin

You'll never be able to get an HD-DVD fanboy to understand that King Kong's picture quality would have to be lower due to bandwidth if TrueHD was added to the disc. They decided (and rightly so) to make the picture quality a priority since that is more important for most people. However had King Kong been done on Blu-Ray, it could have had lpcm sound in a few languages ;)

You'll never be able to get an HD-DVD fanboy to understand that King Kong's picture quality would have to be lower due to bandwidth if TrueHD was added to the disc.That isn't right either. We don't know if it would have been lower picture quality with a different encode. It is a fairly clean and recent movie in 2.35:1 (helps by having free black pixels to encode guaranteed in every frame), so could be easier to encode than a lot of things. My point is about whether the current encode would work with a 16/48 TrueHD track and the answer is likely, "No" even if it fit in 30GB. Looking at the 30GB isn't enough. The bandwidth needs to be looked at to see if they would work together. And it is worse if dynamux isn't available as I don't believe it is. And that is also ignoring that Universal has done 24/48 TrueHD tracks as far as I've read and the calculations people are doing are for a 16/48 TrueHD track (much less space and bandwidth usage for those).

For Europe other languages were added and the PiP was removed, but the convenient excuse that other languages weren't completed for the PiP part was given as to why they took the PiP off there, despite this being probably Universal's most important release to that point. Leaving the PiP on and adding those other languages also probably would have required a different video encode and that could have been because of both the 30GB of space and the bandwidth limitation of HD DVD.

--Darin

FWIW, here's an article in a Canadian newspaper, the National Post. It does talk about the Blockbuster anouncement as a possible "death blow" to HD-DVD. But it also provides some "not so fast, it ain't over yet" ammunition for HD-DVD:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=31845479-08fd-4022-b873-0f6630772db9&k=67670

For Europe other languages were added and the PiP was removed, but the convenient excuse that other languages weren't completed for the PiP part was given as to why they took the PiP off there, despite this being probably Universal's most important release to that point. Leaving the PiP on and adding those other languages also probably would have required a different video encode and that could have been because of both the 30GB of space and the bandwidth limitation of HD DVD.

--Darin

So if they released King Kong on BD in Europe we would get PiP? ;)

FWIW, here's an article in a Canadian newspaper, the National Post. It does talk about the Blockbuster anouncement as a possible "death blow" to HD-DVD. But it also provides some "not so fast, it ain't over yet" ammunition for HD-DVD:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=31845479-08fd-4022-b873-0f6630772db9&k=67670
The DVD format war has divided many in the entertainment and technology industries, with Blu-ray attracting such heavyweights as Sony, Apple and MGM, while HD-DVD supporters include Microsoft, Toshiba and New Line Cinema.Since when did HD DVD get New Line to back them exclusively?

I am sure this has been covered already, but what are the odds that Fox, Disney, etc. nudged Blockbuster into making this call?

I like this article: BlockBuster Goes Blu-ray -- Should You, Too? (http://ww.switched.com/2007/06/18/blockbuster-goes-blu-ray-should-you-too/).

Author ends his analysis by saying Bottom line: We applaud the wider availability of any high-definition DVD format at rental stores, since both HD-DVD and Blu-ray cost around $40 a pop. But this war ain't over yet, at least not until Universal and/or HBO make the move over to Blu-ray. In the meantime, consumers still lose out. Solution? Buy the hybrid LG BH-1000 hybrid player, which can handle both formats.Then he posts a correction: [CORRECTION: HBO has reversed its previous stand and is now releasing its shows, including 'The Sopranos,' on Blu-ray.]So the war's over!!!!

I like this article: BlockBuster Goes Blu-ray -- Should You, Too? (http://ww.switched.com/2007/06/18/blockbuster-goes-blu-ray-should-you-too/).

Author ends his analysis by saying Then he posts a correction: So the war's over!!!!

ROFL!!!

Interesting.
I go away for a day and the thread has grown tremendously with some posters posting all day long. Now unless these people are on vacation or independently wealthy, it sure seems that some must be on the payroll to be able to post all day long....

:eek:

Or perhaps on vacation?

The main stream media seems to have taken the Blockbuster decision and blown it up to gigantic proportions. Even in Canada we get bombarded by this 'war is over' mentality. I just saw a national post article, and it got a lot of air time on TV. HD DVD PG have to do something to stay in the game.

In quite a few newspapers, the tone is actually very similar to the Rolling Stone Magazine pronouncement of the VHS vs betamax thing (that one took 10 years to sort itself out with the last few years being very depressing for betamax owners in rental stores).

IYNSHO, or link?

Well, there are posts in the HD DVD forum right now from people who cancelled orders for HD DVD players, of course if you want to call them all liars or insinuate that they work for $ony feel free.

There is the tip or whatever on Gizmodo, but only time will tell, and if you think the news saying Blockbuster has chosen blu-ray will help HD DVD sales then I would like to see a link supporting that.

Author ends his analysis by saying Then he posts a correction:
[CORRECTION: HBO has reversed its previous stand and is now releasing its shows, including 'The Sopranos,' on Blu-ray.]
So the war's over!!!!
No, the author is just a dumbass, like most "journalists" today. "The Sopranos" Season 6, Part 1--the only HD release they've made, has been available on BOTH formats from DAY ONE. And why wouldn't it be? It's distributed by WARNER. It's absolutely PATHETIC that there have been over a dozen news reports posted in this thread, and Bill Hunt's has been the most accurate.

Journalism truly is a dead art.

The main stream media seems to have taken the Blockbuster decision and blown it up to gigantic proportions. Even in Canada we get bombarded by this 'war is over' mentality. I just saw a national post article, and it got a lot of air time on TV. HD DVD PG have to do something to stay in the game.

In quite a few newspapers, the tone is actually very similar to the Rolling Stone Magazine pronouncement of the VHS vs betamax thing (that one took 10 years to sort itself out with the last few years being very depressing for betamax owners in rental stores).

But that's what the media does. Any company -- I don't care who they are -- better have a game plan for such things. If they can't stand the heat, they should get out of the kitchen. Journalism is a cutthroat, ruthless business, and quite frankly I have very little pity for its victims if they come to a gunfight with a knife.

No, the author is just a dumbass, like most "journalists" today. "The Sopranos" Season 6, Part 1--the only HD release they've made, has been available on BOTH formats from DAY ONE. And why wouldn't it be? It's distributed by WARNER. It's absolutely PATHETIC that there have been over a dozen news reports posted in this thread, and Bill Hunt's has been the most accurate.

Journalism truly is a dead art.

While I agree with you that journalism is less objective than it was in past decades, it doesn't change the fact that they help form the opinions of the masses. You can't just write them off carte blanche and deny their sway on the average consumer. This is perhaps the most serious blow HD DVD has suffered, and it appears they were ill-prepared for it.

Well, there are posts in the HD DVD forum right now from people who cancelled orders for HD DVD players, of course if you want to call them all liars or insinuate that they work for $ony feel free.

There is the tip or whatever on Gizmodo, but only time will tell, and if you think the news saying Blockbuster has chosen blu-ray will help HD DVD sales then I would like to see a link supporting that.

Then how do you explain that as of this morning the Toshiba HD-A2 is the number one selling HD movie player on Amazon?

Is this posted already?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php
A tipster at an unnamed retailer tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? All of them were canceled because of the Blockbuster announcement.

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now.

Is this posted already?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php

Yes - about 10 times and PLEASE read the first sentence in that article. It is wrong so how much worth can we give to the rest of it?

I can bet the unnamed tipster is part of the Sony hydra project. The typical tactic being used by the BDA that emphasizes FUD over improvements to their own product is a shame. The bigger shame IMHO is how people lap that up....yes. Why don't you look at Amazon sales ranking or even ask VE what his cancellation rate is? I am sure a few will cancel but the long term impact has to be seen.

FWIW I invested heavily in stocks after 911 and I am glad I did - sometime people over react...Sure, if Blockbuster was where you were hoping to rent from, yeah cancel. But I believe for most who already had orders, B&M Blockbuster was not a huge factor in their decision....it could hurt future sales, but for that we will have to watch the sales figure.

It all comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be on the losing side. I know exactly how this feels as I chose Beta (against a friends recommendation) back in 1981. I still remember how crappy it felt having to sell my machine and tapes at a HUGE loss. When the format went down - it went down fast. I'm still bitter about it. :(

Then how do you explain that as of this morning the Toshiba HD-A2 is the number one selling HD movie player on Amazon?

How many did it sell?

How many orders were cancelled?

How many DVD players does amazon sell?

No one here knows, but what we do know is actual people are stating here at AVS that they personally have cancelled their orders for HD DVD players based on this news.

I can bet the unnamed tipster is part of the Sony hydra project. The typical tactic being used by the BDA that emphasizes FUD over improvements to their own product is a shame. The bigger shame IMHO is how people lap that up....yes. Why don't you look at Amazon sales ranking or even ask VE what his cancellation rate is? I am sure a few will cancel but the long term impact has to be seen.

FWIW I invested heavily in stocks after 911 and I am glad I did - sometime people over react...Sure, if Blockbuster was where you were hoping to rent from, yeah cancel. But I believe for most who already had orders, B&M Blockbuster was not a huge factor in their decision....it could hurt future sales, but for that we will have to watch the sales figure.

I am confused, your first paragraph says the tipster who claims people are cancelling orders is a hydra plant or whatever, your second says that people are overreacting by cancelling orders?

So which is it, are people cancelling orders in your opinion or not?

Are you saying you are going to invest in BD because of the overreaction of consumers dumping HD DVD?

This thread is so long that I'm not sure if this was covered, but that was pretty misleading. I'm sure lots of businesses you know of will dump (less than) 30% of 1% of their customers. Grocery stores choose to not carry less popular products all the time. Especially one that is a niche product and in testing was determined to be ess popular than another product in that niche.

--Darin

Very true...

Reload this Page 250 Blockbuster B&M stores carry Blu-ray & HD DVD - 1450 more to carry Blu-ray only



And 4000+ more that aren't selling either!!!

Wins?

Wins what?

You mean at the time that those numbers were calculated, BD is winning . . .

I don't see a checkered flag in sight . . .

I don't hear no fat lady singing . . .

The race has yet to be concluded.

Since you like racing analogies...

The Red car is running out of gas on the last lap while the blue car has half a tank and in the lead... This pretty much describes the situation right now if it were a car race....

How many did it sell?

How many orders were cancelled?

How many DVD players does amazon sell?

No one here knows, but what we do know is actual people are stating here at AVS that they personally have cancelled their orders for HD DVD players based on this news.

Oh I see . . . .

We use the Amazon Top 10 movie stats. And no one asks those questions.

How many were cancelled? - Not enough to take it out of the #1 position

Did people here cancel - yep - I counted I think 3

How many do they sell - a ton.

It all comes down to the fact that nobody wants to be on the losing side. I know exactly how this feels as I chose Beta (against a friends recommendation) back in 1981. I still remember how crappy it felt having to sell my machine and tapes at a HUGE loss. When the format went down - it went down fast. I'm still bitter about it. :(
Losing in this particular format war will be NOWHERE near as painful as that one, however. There was no way to stick a Beta tape in a VHS VCR. But that is not the case here. If this announcement is the beginning of the end for HD DVD, I will not buy a Blu-Ray player until a reasonably-priced combo player is available. Which is inevitable since the technologies are so similar. My investment in HD DVD titles will NEVER go to waste, though my HD-A1 will eventually become less useful as I collect more and more Blu-Ray titles that it cannot play.

The reverse is also true. Consumers who are exclusively Blu-Ray at this point in time will be able to purchase combo players should HD DVD win. At that point, their main player will play any HD title they should have or acquire, while their backup player will continue to play their existing movies (in another room). No money spent on titles goes to waste, though their original player(s) eventually become deprecated.

For those who don't think this is inevitable, look at DVD-A and SACD. BOTH formats are dead, and yet there's a HUGE array of players available that are compatible with both formats, because the incremental cost of adding the capability is negligible. Blu-Ray and HD DVD will be the same way, even if one or both formats fail.

When a content provider such as Blockbuster makes a decision like this, being the nations largest rental centers, it has to be devestating to HD-DVD. It may not be fatal, but this is a decisive blow, that will certainly place Blu-Ray at the forefront, effecting a consumers decision on player selection - Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, and software availability locally in their local communities. If the mass merchandisers follow suit - ie: Best Buy and/or Circuit City, the fatal blow will be struct, in my opinion (as a consumer and a retailer). If you see this differently, please enlighten me with your facts, not heresay. [Jim]

Since you like racing analogies...

The Red car is running out of gas on the last lap while the blue car has half a tank and in the lead... This pretty much describes the situation right now if it were a car race....

So you think this race has one lap to go? Very optomistic of you. Wonder how many will agree with you . . . other than BD fanboys.

We are at best into the 25th lap of 250 and anyone who says other wise needs to do some reserch.

When a content provider such as Blockbuster makes a decision like this, being the nations largest rental centers, it has to be devestating to HD-DVD. It may not be fatal, but this is a decisive blow, that will certainly place Blu-Ray at the forefront, effecting a consumers decision on player selection - Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD, and software availability locally in their local communities. If the mass merchandisers follow suit - ie: Best Buy and/or Circuit City, the fatal blow will be struct, in my opinion (as a consumer and a retailer). If you see this differently, please enlighten me with your facts, not heresay. [Jim]

If . . . my grandmother had wheels - she would be a wagon!

If . . . my grandmother had wheels - she would be a wagon!

The Format War - 2 Fleas Arguing Over Who Owns the Dog!

One of those fleas is apparently named Lee and he is indeed fighting very hard

This seems very simple to me:

1. One of the formats has relatively low-priced players, but based on the Blockbuster news, etc., its future is in doubt, so most people will be reluctant to buy.
2. One of the formats seems to have a future, but the players are too expensive for most people to consider buying.

So, for a while, most people aren't going to buy anything (unless they happen to want PlayStation, etc.).

Losing in this particular format war will be NOWHERE near as painful as that one, however. There was no way to stick a Beta tape in a VHS VCR. But that is not the case here. If this announcement is the beginning of the end for HD DVD, I will not buy a Blu-Ray player until a reasonably-priced combo player is available. Which is inevitable since the technologies are so similar. My investment in HD DVD titles will NEVER go to waste, though my HD-A1 will eventually become less useful as I collect more and more Blu-Ray titles that it cannot play.

The reverse is also true. Consumers who are exclusively Blu-Ray at this point in time will be able to purchase combo players should HD DVD win. At that point, their main player will play any HD title they should have or acquire, while their backup player will continue to play their existing movies (in another room). No money spent on titles goes to waste, though their original player(s) eventually become deprecated.

For those who don't think this is inevitable, look at DVD-A and SACD. BOTH formats are dead, and yet there's a HUGE array of players available that are compatible with both formats, because the incremental cost of adding the capability is negligible. Blu-Ray and HD DVD will be the same way, even if one or both formats fail.

Or, one studio could make BD movies and the people who currently own BD wouldn't have to buy anything. That is what I would like to see.

Point 1 counterpoint: with PS3 in the picture 30:1 in favor of Blu-Ray players in home vs. Hd-DVD. 81,000 Ps3's sold last month in US alone, vs. 150,000 Hd-DVD's over their entire life span on the market. You can see how greatly the gap will actually continue to widen in favor of Blu-Ray players in the home. Again, if I am a business, I see the potential for roughly one million PS's sold by the end of the year, uping the number to 4-5 million in homes (low estimate) vs. lets be generous here, 1 million HD-DVD's in homes given HD-DVD's own estimates. You still have Blu-Ray in favor 5-1 over HD-DVD, nnot including a sure to be increase in Blu-Ray stand alone sales as well. This doesn't even account for the already rumored and mentioned Ps'3 price drop at Christmas. (Yes, the head of Sony mentioned the price drop).

Point 2 counterpoint: Partially answered above, Price drop. And as for the younger demographic, have you looked at the future game title releases for Ps3, I assume not unless you mean younger as in 14 and up and I would wager that 14 year olds watch movies, just like they drive the Music industry. And most 14 year olds I know want the newest and coolest thing, this includes HD Movies. That said, I think the Wii has already established itself as the younger console of chioce.

There is a lot of truth to this post :)

One of those fleas is apparently named Lee and he is indeed fighting very hard

Correct - the other is named Jiffy! - Battle Royale - get the popcorn! :D

Fighting to say this it was a well delivered blow - no question - but not a knock out punch.

Is this posted already?
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hd-dvd-on-the-way-out%3F/blockbusters-blu+ray-endorsement-having-major-impact-on-hd-dvd-player-sales-270313.php

Here is a rewritten version that could just as well be true.

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores (see our sister article about Blockbuster apparently closing over 5000 stores) is having a bigger impact than it seems. Beatboy77 at the Sony Style Store tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days them than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? Sony Style Stores don't even carry HD DVD players!

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now. Of course since they don't sell HD DVD players it would make sense that BD players would be the only thing they are actually moving. On another note the folks at an undisclosed store have stated that they really wish they could quit moving all those PS3's. From an unknown tipster "We really are tired of moving all these PS3s. I mean we move them from the front door to the gaming section then over the home theatre section. Can't someone just buy the darn things already cause we sure are tired of moving them"

So you think this race has one lap to go? Very optomistic of you. Wonder how many will agree with you . . . other than BD fanboys.

We are at best into the 25th lap of 250 and anyone who says other wise needs to do some reserch.

Even in lap 25 the red car has run out of steam, but the blue car will be refuelled in late October to take it all the way to the finish line.

Car analogies are fun!

Here is a rewritten version that could just as well be true.

Blockbuster's decision to support Blu-ray in all of its 1,450 stores (ok well all maybe is a bit misleading since they have over 5000) is having a bigger impact than it seems. Beatboy77 at the Sony Style Store tells us they've had more HD DVD player orders canceled over the last few days them than they've seen over the entire life cycle. The kicker? Sony Style Stores don't even carry HD DVD players!

Not only that, new sales of HD DVD players are nonexistent, with Blu-ray being the only things moving now. Of course since they don't sell HD DVD players it would make sense that BD players would be the only thing they are actually moving. On another note the folks at an undisclosed store have stated that they really wish they could quit moving all those PS3's. From an unknown tipster "We really are tired of moving all these PS3s. I mean we move them from the front door to the gaming section then over the home theatre section. Can't someone just buy the darn things already cause we sure are tired of moving them"

So let me understand this . . . .

Beatboy - who works at a Sony store that doesn't sell HD DVD players is saying HD DVD player orders are being canceled in droves and HD DVD player sales have come to a halt.

Sp where is his information coming from? No sources are quoted in the "article" (and I am really being kind using that word) so how do we know that he didn't just make this up?

Is there another supporting article to back this up?

Or, one studio could make BD movies and the people who currently own BD wouldn't have to buy anything. That is what I would like to see.
Way to go with the strawman. No matter which side wins, ALL studios will release on that format. If BD wins, then OF COURSE current BD owners wouldn't have to buy anything. Likewise, if HD wins, current HD owners wouldn't have to buy anything. The whole point of the discussion is what happens to people who chose the LOSING format, not the WINNING one. Do try to keep up.

If . . . my grandmother had wheels - she would be a wagon!

Being new to this forum I was hoping for some intellectual responses rather than a stupid comment like this. So Lee, you must be one of those HD-DVD zealots I've heard about. Personally I find the offerings of both formats exciting and I own both the Sony BDP-S1 and the Toshiba HD-XA2 players along with movies in both formats. However, I can see the handwriting on the wall based upon that announcement and the current market share, in both hardware and software sales and rental of both formats. If you'd like to present something factual, I'd be more than willing to listen. Present something tangible and maybe other will listen.

Jim

Even in lap 25 the red car has run out of steam, but the blue car will be refuelled in late October to take it all the way to the finish line.

Car analogies are fun!

Yes they are, but running out of steam? You believe Red has played all the cards in their hand? That there won't be a counter to the BB announcement?

I see it more realistically - the blue car is now a full lap ahead of the red car.

But we both know that races have been won with a wider margin than that.

So you think this race has one lap to go? Very optomistic of you. Wonder how many will agree with you . . . other than BD fanboys.

We are at best into the 25th lap of 250 and anyone who says other wise needs to do some reserch.

You're right, I was thinking in terms of a 4 lap race ;)
25th lap of 250 would be right around last Christmas. I would say we are closer to lap 230 at this point and will be reaching lap 249 the day before the Christmas season of this year. What is going to happen from now until Christmas is going to be more stores going Blu-Ray exclusive and more "Blockbuster" moments. Rumor has it that next week Target will become blu-ray hardware exclusive.. WE can only guess who will be next...

You're right, I was thinking in terms of a 4 lap race ;)
25th lap of 250 would be right around last Christmas. I would say we are closer to lap 230 at this point and will be reaching lap 249 the day before the Christmas season of this year. What is going to happen from now until Christmas is going to be more stores going Blu-Ray exclusive and more "Blockbuster" moments. Rumor has it that next week Target will become blu-ray hardware exclusive.. WE can only guess who will be next...

I wasn't aware that Target sold any high def hardware except maybe the PS3 and the Xbox add-on. Are you saying they are going to drop the Xbox? Now that would be something- stupid but it would be news.

Being new to this forum I was hoping for some intellectual responses rather than a stupid comment like this. So Lee, you must be one of those HD-DVD zealots I've heard about. Personally I find the offerings of both formats exciting and I own both the Sony BDP-S1 and the Toshiba HD-XA2 players along with movies in both formats. However, I can see the handwriting on the wall based upon that announcement and the current market share, in both hardware and software sales and rental of both formats. If you'd like to present something factual, I'd be more than willing to listen. Present something tangible and maybe other will listen.

Jim

Jim:

You are new here so I will definitely cut you some slack.

It is not necessary to use bold and #2 sizing to "get your point across." Just a regular typeset is fine.

Something factual - sure - here is an article from yesterday. Big article it is because it shows that DVD sales are down from 2006. And it discusses the whole Hi Def Disc marketplace place including projections out to 2010.

It projects that BD will be outselling HD DVD by a 1.7 to 1 factor in 2010. So being written yesterday - a day after the BB announcement - these people still feel that HD DVD will be around 3 years from now.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6453579.html

Jim:
It is not necessary to use bold and #2 sizing to "get your point across." Just a regular typeset is fine.Corrected by moderator.

So let me understand this . . . .

Beatboy - who works at a Sony store that doesn't sell HD DVD players is saying HD DVD player orders are being canceled in droves and HD DVD player sales have come to a halt.

Sp where is his information coming from? No sources are quoted in the "article" (and I am really being kind using that word) so how do we know that he didn't just make this up?

Is there another supporting article to back this up?

Umm this was me just "rewriting" the story and putting some humorous "spin" on it. Take the whole thing with a big :D :D :D :D

PS: I havent rented a movie at a B&M store (or at all for that matter) in over 5 years. This whole story is a non issue to me. I think the "world is ending and everything is going Blu!" stories are just humorous so I took a horribly inaccurate article and tried to poke some fun :)

You're right, I was thinking in terms of a 4 lap race ;)
25th lap of 250 would be right around last Christmas. I would say we are closer to lap 230 at this point and will be reaching lap 249 the day before the Christmas season of this year. What is going to happen from now until Christmas is going to be more stores going Blu-Ray exclusive and more "Blockbuster" moments. Rumor has it that next week Target will become blu-ray hardware exclusive.. WE can only guess who will be next...

Target? that's a laugh. I have been to three Target stores in my area - Ft. Lauderdale and they all have the same display - 20 BD's on the left - 20 HD DVD's on the right.

And as pointed out - they only sell the 360 AO as a HD DVD player.

That's like saying Sears is going to drop HD DVD.

Not a player in the marketplace.

Correct - the other is named Jiffy! - Battle Royale - get the popcorn! :D

Fighting to say this it was a well delivered blow - no question - but not a knock out punch.

You are the one belittleing (is that even a word?) the fight while you are fighting it.

It comes down to this, I want as much HD content as I can get my hands on as soon as possible. This is the reason I have an series 3 tivo with a 750gb drive along with HBOHD and ShowtimeHD and a PS3.

Thanks to Universal's stand, HD DVD going by the wayside paving the way for greater BD adoption helps me get more content.

ps. I watched Return of the Jedi last night in HD (thanks hbo) with my 3 and 5 year old for the first time, it was heaven. I have nothing against you or any HD DVD supporter, I just want more content to watch with my kids with great sound and a great picture.

pps. Personally I don't want an additional player, but if the stalemate continues I would consider buying a dual format player in a few years.

Jim:

You are new here so I will definitely cut you some slack.


Thank you such a quick response. I appreciate. [Jim]

hddvd is doa in europe, asia and australia, to say that it will keep its current market share in us by 2010 is tad optimistic and probably foolish once the new release schedule is factored in. even universal needs to sell outside us.

hddvd is doa in europe, asia and australia, to say that it will keep its current market share in us by 2010 is tad optimistic and probably foolish once the new release schedule is factored in. even universal needs to sell outside us.

Interesting you should bring that up.

Between yesterday and the 26th BD is releasing 3 titles . . . .

While HD DVD is releasing 17.

Info from HighdefDigest

Australia - Did you know that Sony just made an announcement. Yep they crowed about the fact that SID they have sold 6000 BD movies in Australia!

I bet there was some serious leaning on BB by the BD group to make this announcement now during the HD DVD big discount period. They were probably really concerned about how many new HD DVD players were about to be sold and this was a way to thwart that big advantage this could lead to. But many new players were probably still sold and I assume the weeks and months ahead will show that. Although not in it's favor this decision by BB will not kill HD DVD like some of you Blu-ray fanboys hope for, there is still a long way to go and I for one will be renting and buying all the HD-DVD"s I can afford. So as you people self proclaim the winner, I will be sitting back and enjoying pristine HD on my A20 and I don't have to go to BB to do this. Enough said !

Interesting you should bring that up.

Between yesterday and the 26th BD is releasing 3 titles . . . .

While HD DVD is releasing 17.

Info from HighdefDigest

Australia - Did you know that Sony just made an announcement. Yep they crowed about the fact that SID they have sold 6000 BD movies in Australia!

they are catalog titles being released during the dead season in order to inflate sales. most of them will sell very little.

the other factors the cited article omits are:
- by 2010 ps3 install base will be huge and anyone who has followed this should understand the impact ps3 has had on this race.
- by 2010 bd will dominate pc drive market due to its capacity of 200GB.

-

I bet there was some serious leaning on BB by the BD group to make this announcement now during the HD DVD big discount period.

The HD DVD $100 instant rebate promotion is now over - it finished June 16.

Interesting you should bring that up.

Between yesterday and the 26th BD is releasing 3 titles . . . .

While HD DVD is releasing 17.

Sure, but that doesn't do anything to refute the fact that HD DVD is nevertheless being destroyed by BD in media sales numbers in Europe.

From reading through several of the posts about Blu-Ray and HD-DVD here on the AVSForum, it certainly appears, to me at least, that many here are loosing out on the entertainment and enjoyment value of these wonderful technologies. You'd swear your reading thoughts and comments from the Board of Directors in either format. I really don't know whether one format will win over the other or that they can co-exist as did SA-CD and DVD-Audio individually or within a single player like the Pioneer Elite, but I am certain that all this he said, she said, see this projection, this graph, etc. is nothing more than what my Statistic Professor at the University I attended commented upon when the class first began - "Statistics are the bias of the statistician, you can make the numbers come out any way you'd like". I too enjoy a good debate or argument, but I prefer basing my insights, comments and observations on Facts and Truth, not heresay, or theysay! I do look forward to insightful posts. [Jim]

Jim:

You are new here so I will definitely cut you some slack.

It is not necessary to use bold and #2 sizing to "get your point across." Just a regular typeset is fine.

Something factual - sure - here is an article from yesterday. Big article it is because it shows that DVD sales are down from 2006. And it discusses the whole Hi Def Disc marketplace place including projections out to 2010.

It projects that BD will be outselling HD DVD by a 1.7 to 1 factor in 2010. So being written yesterday - a day after the BB announcement - these people still feel that HD DVD will be around 3 years from now.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6453579.html


It is a silly notion to even remotely trust or buy into any prediction that keeps this battle at such a close margin for another three years. 1.7 to 1 factor by 2010 seems to be as far off as trying to predict how many hurricanes are going to hit the US this year... "videobusiness" needs to find some smarter people then...

The HD DVD $100 instant rebate promotion is now over - it finished June 16.

HD-A2 is still listed at $299 from amazon.

Sure, but that doesn't do anything to refute the fact that HD DVD is nevertheless being destroyed by BD in media sales numbers in Europe.

Proof, link?

Target? that's a laugh. I have been to three Target stores in my area - Ft. Lauderdale and they all have the same display - 20 BD's on the left - 20 HD DVD's on the right.

And as pointed out - they only sell the 360 AO as a HD DVD player.

That's like saying Sears is going to drop HD DVD.

Not a player in the marketplace.

Lee Stewart,

The very same person who called out last week that Blockbuster was going to go blu has spoken again yesterday with some more insider information. You should have read the number of posts like yours doubting the prediction last week who said the same thing about this Blockbuster rumor that came true.....

Proof, link?

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/7817/8841/PlayStation3-gives-Blu-ray-discs-boosts.phtml

...Industry data for the period from 1 January until the end of April shows a change in market dynamics in the European HD software market.

Up until the PS3’s launch on 23 March, HD DVD was comfortably outselling Blu-ray discs. However, in the week after PS3 was launched in Europe, Blu-ray discs accounted for almost 87% of all HD disc sales.

In the period since 23 March, Blu-ray discs have consistently out sold HD DVD's rival product by a significant margin.

In the latest week that the figures report, Blu-ray discs outsold HD DVDs by a factor of more than three to one.

This means that despite the PS3 being available for only one month of this four-month period, Blu-ray software sales account for over 64% of the total volume since the start of the year...

The HD DVD $100 instant rebate promotion is now over - it finished June 16.

On-line orders and return policy's are still in affect considering the announcement was made only a couple of days later. But I'm betting if they have it and are watching it, they will be keeping it. HD DVD is that good and that is all the influence you need.

Content is king! Don't kid yourselves. Although I prefer quality content, J6P only sees quantity. I will post a longer post tonight about my decision to finally jump off the fence and buy an HD Disc player, but I will say this decision has me heading for the store this weekend to buy a Blu-Ray player. I haven't bought a Sony product since the original Walkman. As a matter of fact I've owned only Toshiba HDTV's and DVD's players for several years now and am a PC gamer and could care less about the console wars. I currently own a 65" Tosh HDTV. Not only that, but I haven't posted on AVS in ages, because I've been happy with my choices of TV's, DVD player, and DVR's.

I'm sorry, but the writing appears to be on the wall with BB's decision IMHO. Although the longer post is coming later, I can say this right now. Only ONE MAJOR studio exclusive to HD-DVD, prices for both players getting close to each other, and the fact that I can just run around the corner next month to rent an HD Disc. Heck nevermind, I don't need a long post, that's enough. :rolleyes:

P.S.- I'd have paid $1000 for a unified HD Disc format player, but no way was I gonna jump in at even $250 with a format war. Kid yourselves all you want HD-DVD supporters. I have rented online for 2 years, but the ability to run around the corner and grab the latest release from the local BB is priceless. Long waits/throttling with Netflix as a HIGH renter made me jump to Blockbuster Online, so I could grab the latest release in store without paying more. So now, if the HD disk has a long wait online, I can just go two blocks to get the Blu-Ray disc at the store. This is the first nail in the coffin for HD-DVD.

Lee Stewart,

The very same person who called out last week that Blockbuster was going to go blu has spoken again yesterday with some more insider information. You should have read the number of posts like yours doubting the prediction last week who said the same thing about this Blockbuster rumor that came true.....

I don't think he was saying it wasn't true, he was saying it was insignifigant.

I think it would be more important if the announcement was about a big rollout of blu-ray players into target stores.

FWIW I just hope they drop the prices on BD movies and carry more of them, it would be nice to pick up titles locally at decent prices.

Lee Stewart,

The very same person who called out last week that Blockbuster was going to go blu has spoken again yesterday with some more insider information. You should have read the number of posts like yours doubting the prediction last week who said the same thing about this Blockbuster rumor that came true.....

Well, the Targets in my area currently sell ONLY the XBox add on and the Playstation 3 (both of which many folk do not classify as "players"). So I guess if Target starts stocking and selling a Blu-ray stand alone player (but not an HD-DVD standalone) it would be Blu-ray exclusive in many minds.

I am puzzled by why the title for this thread keeps changing.

The real story, as repeated everywhere in the media, is the near-endorsement of Blu-ray by Blockbuster.

The current title now weakens this as much as possible in favor of HD DVD.

Before it changes again, here is the current title:

"250 Blockbuster B&M stores carry Blu-ray & HD DVD - 1450 more to carry Blu-ray only! "

Who is changing this, and why?

I will post a longer post tonight about my decision to finally jump off the fence and buy an HD Disc player, but I will say this decision has me heading for the store this weekend to buy a Blu-Ray player and I haven't bought a Sony product since the original Walkman. As a matter of fact I've owned only Toshiba HDTV's and DVD's players for several years now. Currently a 65" Tosh HDTV. Not only that, but I haven't posted on AVS in ages, because I've been happy with my choices of TV's, DVD player, and DVR's.

I'm sorry, but the writing appears to be on the wall with BB's decision IMHO. Although the longer post is coming later, I can say this right now. Only ONE MAJOR studio exclusive to HD-DVD, prices for both players getting close to each other, and the fact that I can just run around the corner next month to rent an HD Disc. Heck nevermind, I don't need a long post, that's enough. :rolleyes:

P.S.- I'd have paid $1000 for a unified HD Disc format player, but no way was I gonna jump in at even $250 with a format war. Kid yourselves all you want HD-DVD supporters. I have rented online for 2 years, but the ability to run around the corner and grab the latest release from the local BB is priceless. Long waits/throttling with Netflix as a HIGH renter made me jump to Blockbuster Online, so I could grab the latest release in store without paying more. So now, if the HD disk has a long wait online, I can just go two blocks to get the Blu-Ray disc at the store. This is the first nail in the coffin for HD-DVD.

Well, well, well, another Forum member who seems to live up to his name "DeepThinker" Thanks for your insightful comments. Excellent points!!! [Jim]

I am puzzled by why the title for this thread keeps changing.

The real story, as repeated everywhere in the media, is the near-endorsement of Blu-ray by Blockbuster.

The current title now weakens this as much as possible in favor of HD DVD.

Before it changes again, here is the current title:

"250 Blockbuster B&M stores carry Blu-ray & HD DVD - 1450 more to carry Blu-ray only! "

Who is changing this, and why?

The mods are changing it due to constant complaints from AVS members, I think it has been kind of funny, every time I see it change it makes me smile. Maybe they should change it every few hours just to entertain me. :)

I am puzzled by why the title for this thread keeps changing.

The real story, as repeated everywhere in the media, is the near-endorsement of Blu-ray by Blockbuster.

The current title now weakens this as much as possible in favor of HD DVD.

Before it changes again, here is the current title:

"250 Blockbuster B&M stores carry Blu-ray & HD DVD - 1450 more to carry Blu-ray only! "

Who is changing this, and why?

Because the HD DVD fanboy corps gets upset if the thread title is as pro Blu-ray as the announcement and they report the thread and PM mods a thousand times a second to change the title.

Yeah, just search for blockbuster on Yahoo news and try to find a more shameless sugarcoating than this thread title.

If anything, I'd rather they went like this xbox fansite:

Blockbuster Kisses Sony Ass: Blu-Ray All The Way (http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGLuuLPiGH06191308)

:D

Now seriously, the best headline I've read is from Bloomberg:

"Blockbuster to expand rentals of Blu-Ray Discs."

Why are people hussing and fussing about headline titles....if you see a headline, read the article, it clearly states the numbers.....HOWEVER i dont see the same people hussing and fussing when Toshiba has press releases using ALL PS3's in attach rate and no PS3's for players sold......the irony is rich here on AVS with the HDDVD fans.

Yeah, just search for blockbuster on Yahoo news and try to find a more shameless sugarcoating than this thread title.

If anything, I'd rather they went like this xbox fansite:

Blockbuster Kisses Sony Ass: Blu-Ray All The Way (http://www.xbox365.com/news.cgi?id=GGLuuLPiGH06191308)

:D

Now seriously, the best headline I've read is from Bloomberg:

"Blockbuster to expand rentals of Blu-Ray Discs."

The sugar-coated title of this thread does nothing more than spread the rumor that AVS is in the backpocket of HD-DVD. However forum regular's know the real reason is to stop the in-flow of HD-DVD fanboy's complaining about the title ;)

And even then you still have some who are complaining that want the title changed to... "Good news for HD-DVD, they no longer have to be a part of that failing store Blockbuster"...

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6309/blackknightwm7.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackknightwm7.jpg)

ROFL

And even then you still have some who are complaining that want the title changed to... "Good news for HD-DVD, they no longer have to be a part of that failing store Blockbuster"...

QFT

Originally Posted by rlsmith
I am puzzled by why the title for this thread keeps changing.

The real story, as repeated everywhere in the media, is the near-endorsement of Blu-ray by Blockbuster.

The current title now weakens this as much as possible in favor of HD DVD.

Before it changes again, here is the current title:

"250 Blockbuster B&M stores carry Blu-ray & HD DVD - 1450 more to carry Blu-ray only! "

Who is changing this, and why?

I said the exact same thing when as soon as the title was changed to it's current one. It's ridiculous, to put it mildly. As Grubert said, if this isn't "sugar coating", I don't know what is! :rolleyes:

Why are people hussing and fussing about headline titles....if you see a headline, read the article, it clearly states the numbers.....HOWEVER i dont see the same people hussing and fussing when Toshiba has press releases using ALL PS3's in attach rate and no PS3's for players sold......the irony is rich here on AVS with the HDDVD fans.

Simple really, people who own Blu-ray standalones are the only ones who stand to lose anything if Blu-ray should fail, but most if not all of us are normal early adopters and have been burned before by format failure or tech failures before and losing money to this would not be a big deal. We see no reason to protect out 'investment' with such vigour. Sure we ridicule the stupid maths of that example that you gave, or claims that VC-1 is going to solve the world poverty/hunger crisis, but not so much that we get the mods involved to lock threads or get other members banned (well not too often, only oshodi/LAGOSIAN/Django in my case).

mod

please be reminded that bashing other members is not allowed on AVS

We are receiving reports on some unacceptable posts here

I said the exact same thing when as soon as the title was changed to it's current one. It's ridiculous, to put it mildly. As Grubert said, if this isn't "sugar coating", I don't know what is! :rolleyes:

Indeed.

Well, the Targets in my area currently sell ONLY the XBox add on and the Playstation 3 (both of which many folk do not classify as "players"). So I guess if Target starts stocking and selling a Blu-ray stand alone player (but not an HD-DVD standalone) it would be Blu-ray exclusive in many minds.

Great!

The absolute of the Joe 6packs shop at Target. Think they will but a $499 BD player? Especially as it iwll be sitting next to the Coby $49 DVD player!

Have you all checked the price of the Sony S300 - from the 5 sites I have - it is selling for $499 - no discount. At CC the HD A2 is $349 and when you look in the HD movies area guess what you see - a whole rack of BD movies on the left and a whole rack of HD DVD movies on the right.

And everyone says . . . "what if"

What if Best Buy goes BD

What if Circuit City goes HD DVD

What if Wal-Mart brings in Chinese HD DVD player?

How about a real what if . . . .

What if tomorrow, Toshiba lowers the price of the HD A2 to $199?

Great!

The absolute of the Joe 6packs shop at Target. Think they will but a $499 BD player? Especially as it iwll be sitting next to the Coby $49 DVD player!

Have you all checked the price of the Sony S300 - from the 5 sites I have - it is selling for $499 - no discount. At CC the HD A2 is $349 and when you look in the HD movies area guess what you see - a whole rack of BD movies on the left and a whole rack of HD DVD movies on the right.

And everyone says . . . "what if"

What if Best Buy goes BD

What if Circuit City goes HD DVD

What if Wal-Mart brings in Chinese HD DVD player?

How about a real what if . . . .

What if tomorrow, Toshiba lowers the price of the HD A2 to $199?

so did i, but it is also sold out almost everywhere, price is function of supply and demand, right now there is a very high demand for s300. frankly i am surprised. g3 bdp's will be out q4 and then price of 300's will go down.

Great news for HD-DVD, not good news ;)



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I'm all for that :) So the revised edition of the revised title should now be...

"Great news folks for HD-DVD. No longer do they have to be a part of that terrible rental chain Blockbuster anymore" ;)

What if tomorrow, Toshiba lowers the price of the HD A2 to $199?

C'mon, Lee. Don't you know the HD-A2 is a "useless player"? AnthonyP told me so (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10830999#post10830999). :rolleyes: Heck, I think I'm going to just chuck mine right into the trash now because apparently it won't play any of those great looking and sounding movies anymore. It all makes sense to me now. Every time Toshiba lowered the price on the HD-A2, the quality of the player instantly went down, as did the quality, usefulness, and desirability of HD DVD as a whole. Who can deny that you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR? If it costs less, it must be crap.

Bradley

When people talk about market share, we have HD DVD with a 30% to 40% share in software sales and 60% share in set top players. Based on what the BDA supporters say one would have assumed that the market share of BD was over 90%!

Based on current market share it would be crazy for HD DVD to ramp down when their biggest advantage is yet to come - while BD's trumps cards that include studio support and the PS3 have already been played. We are indeed seeing the best growth that BD can achieve....and it is becoming apparent that it is a format for the PS3.

C'mon, Lee. Don't you know the HD-A2 is a "useless player"? AnthonyP told me so (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10830999#post10830999). :rolleyes: Heck, I think I'm going to just chuck mine right into the trash now because apparently it won't play any of those great looking and sounding movies anymore. It all makes sense to me now. Every time Toshiba lowered the price on the HD-A2, the quality of the player instantly went down, as did the quality, usefulness, and desirability of HD DVD as a whole. Who can deny that you GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR? If it costs less, it must be crap.

Bradley

Bradley:

You are correct!

At $399 it was a great player. At $199 . . .it's a piece of junk! I will have to cruise Boca Raton tomorrow as Thursday is their garbage pickup day. Maybe I should rent a truck to get ALL the A2's and XA2's that are going to be thrown out because of the BB announcement.

See you on Ebay!

Content is king! Don't kid yourselves. Although I prefer quality content, J6P only sees quantity. I will post a longer post tonight about my decision to finally jump off the fence and buy an HD Disc player, but I will say this decision has me heading for the store this weekend to buy a Blu-Ray player. I haven't bought a Sony product since the original Walkman. As a matter of fact I've owned only Toshiba HDTV's and DVD's players for several years now and am a PC gamer and could care less about the console wars. I currently own a 65" Tosh HDTV. Not only that, but I haven't posted on AVS in ages, because I've been happy with my choices of TV's, DVD player, and DVR's.

I'm sorry, but the writing appears to be on the wall with BB's decision IMHO. Although the longer post is coming later, I can say this right now. Only ONE MAJOR studio exclusive to HD-DVD, prices for both players getting close to each other, and the fact that I can just run around the corner next month to rent an HD Disc. Heck nevermind, I don't need a long post, that's enough. :rolleyes:

P.S.- I'd have paid $1000 for a unified HD Disc format player, but no way was I gonna jump in at even $250 with a format war. Kid yourselves all you want HD-DVD supporters. I have rented online for 2 years, but the ability to run around the corner and grab the latest release from the local BB is priceless. Long waits/throttling with Netflix as a HIGH renter made me jump to Blockbuster Online, so I could grab the latest release in store without paying more. So now, if the HD disk has a long wait online, I can just go two blocks to get the Blu-Ray disc at the store. This is the first nail in the coffin for HD-DVD.
Ooops, had to check my retirement plan in case my $250 is down the tube. Also had to run a disk in my D2 to see if it still works, and verified that I had 3 emails from netfix yesterday saying I'll be getting 3 titles today.

Guess what, HD-DVD is still an excellent solution.

It looks like a lot of people did not get the memo on the demise of HD DVD since HD DVD Players are #1 sellers of HD set top players at Amazon, Best Buy and Circuit City.....at the later the sales of HD DVD players is around 50% better, at Amazon it must be equally as big....obviously it's the PS3 that is keeping BD afloat, not HT enthusiasts. Hence the position at AVS....

When people talk about market share, we have HD DVD with a 30% to 40% share in software sales and 60% share in set top players. Based on what the BDA supporters say one would have assumed that the market share of BD was over 90%!

Based on current market share it would be crazy for HD DVD to ramp down when their biggest advantage is yet to come - while BD's trumps cards that include studio support and the PS3 have already been played. We are indeed seeing the best growth that BD can achieve....and it is becoming apparent that it is a format for the PS3.

Studio support . . .

So where is Fox?

And MGM just pulled the announcement that the Sergio Leone 4 movie series that was supposed to be coming to BD in the 4th qtr.

mod

please stop the bickering: if you are in the middle of it, and your post gets deleted, so be it

and for those who continue bickering, your account may be suspended with no further warning

Thanks

Great!

The absolute of the Joe 6packs shop at Target. Think they will but a $499 BD player? Especially as it iwll be sitting next to the Coby $49 DVD player!

Woo, I'm a joe sixpack!

Actually, I think the $500 Sony BD players hooked up to the various 1500-2500$ widescreen displays in the electronics section would work well. Pump a few of the demo discs in there while playing DVD in a different set near it and you can see the differences easily in terms of menus and picture.

And yes, I do a fair bit of shopping at Target. Including buying Blu-rays there, household items, clothes and lots of basic grilling goods. I don't drink anything but water though so I'm not sure I can really use the 6pack label... :(

Content is king! Don't kid yourselves. Although I prefer quality content, J6P only sees quantity.

OK, great. So, if quantity of titles is so crucial, why does that favor BD?

Number of titles (and number of exclusives) across formats is pretty much a tie at this point, and I believe HD DVD is either ahead, or will be within a month or so.

Woo, I'm a joe sixpack!

Actually, I think the $500 Sony BD players hooked up to the various 1500-2500$ widescreen displays in the electronics section would work well. Pump a few of the demo discs in there while playing DVD in a different set near it and you can see the differences easily in terms of menus and picture.

And yes, I do a fair bit of shopping at Target. Including buying Blu-rays there, household items, clothes and lots of basic grilling goods. I don't drink anything but water though so I'm not sure I can really use the 6pack label... :(

$1500 to $2500 displays?

Where do you live?

The Targets here in Ft Lauderdale only carry a 32" Westinghouse LCD that they sell for I believe $599.

New Title suggestions (all tongue in cheek)


for the attach rate crowd
"GREAT NEWS FOR HD-DVD - ATTACH RATES WILL REMAIN HIGH AS BLOCKBUSTER B&M OPTIONS DRY UP"

for the nobody outside of AVS even cares crowd
"GREAT NEWS FOR BLU-RAY & HD-DVD - SOMEONE ACTUALY MENTIONED THEIR EXISTANCE ON THE NEWS WHEN IT WAS ANNOUNCED THAT BLOCKBUSTER WILL EXPAND BLU-RAY SUPPORT TO 1450 MORE STORES"

for the it's never over as long as one person believes crowd
"GREAT NEWS FOR HD-DVD - BLOCKBUSTER ADMITS PUBLICLY THAT SOME PEOPLE ARE RENTING HD-DVD'S"

for the it's all a conspiracy crowd
"GREAT NEWS FOR BLU-RAY - SONY HAS WORKED A BACKROOM DEAL WITH BLOCKBUSTER TO PROVIDE USED COPIES OF THE FIFTH ELEMENT (the bad transfer) TO 1450 STORES AFTER JULY."

I appologise if I did not include every crowd it's just that there are some many different to keep track of ones.

$1500 to $2500 displays?

Where do you live?

The Targets here in Ft Lauderdale only carry a 32" Westinghouse LCD that they sell for I believe $599.

I'm just outside of Boston. Must be different market mentalities then. While not all of these (http://www.target.com/gp/browse.html/601-1005713-7388166?node=86330011&index=target&rank=-price&x=7&y=3) are obviously in their stores, they do have a fairly wide variety. Remember that in order to get more business in the last couple of years they were offering bundles with PS3's and Xbox 360's that went into the 2500 range.

If the Ft. Lauderdale store only goes up to 32", well, that sucks. There's several 40"+ sets on display where I am, which is about 40 miles west of Boston.

It's funny how guys who have probably never bought electronics at Target are talking about how their Sony BD player display will work wonders. These in store demos failed in BEST buy to move product and they will work in Target!

Both BB and CC are doing better selling HD DVD Players than BD players. I believe even at Target the xbox add on will sell way more than any BD stand alone player. Westinghouse I thought was bought by Toshiba....so it would surprise me if they didn't sell a Tosh HD Player. But no one at Target is aware that they are going BD exclusive. Isn't weird, even thce guys who order their merchandize!!!!

It's funny how guys who have probably never bought electronics at Target are talking about how their Sony BD player display will work wonders. These in store demos failed in BEST buy to move product and they will work in Target!

Both BB and CC are doing better selling HD DVD Players than BD players. I believe even at Target the xbox add on will sell way more than any BD stand alone player. Westinghouse I thought was bought by Toshiba....so it would surprise me if they didn't sell a Tosh HD Player. But no one at Target is aware that they are going BD exclusive. Isn't weird, even thce guys who order their merchandize!!!!

So lets see.

HD DVD launches with a $500 player in April of 2006. Blu-ray in June with a $1000 player, September with a $1200 player and October with a $1000 player. I forget where Philips landed their $899 deck so let's just say October as well. So with a lot longer lead time, including two months where no competition existed, and then with numerous price breaks during the end of 2006 on the A1 and a lot more on the A2 and A20 during 2007, the best that HD DVD can do is 50,000 more players.

As others have said, nobody is doing good in that area. What is doing well is that some companies, other than Toshiba, are making more money per player. They're not recouping their R&D costs wholesale but they're certainly making profit per player. But the overall market is just far too small.

Much like people who claim BD fans should not react much about the 500K difference in software sales, people shouldn't make much of the 50K greater player sales either.

I mean, if we're not able to say one side making 39 million and the other making 19 million is doing better than we certainly can't say it about 50000 hardware units. Particularly when a good chunk of them are likely second purchases and upgrades. That happens on both sides as well but it is far more likely to happen with the low pricing that's currently going on. Someone who bought an XA2 for their home theater is likely to take the plunge on getting a second player in a discounted A2 for their bedroom or other room. More players in a single household doesn't generate more software sales in general. My having four BD players certainly doesn't have me buying 4x as many discs. (renting, yes, we rent more now though).

It's funny how guys who have probably never bought electronics at Target are talking about how their Sony BD player display will work wonders. These in store demos failed in BEST buy to move product and they will work in Target!

Both BB and CC are doing better selling HD DVD Players than BD players. I believe even at Target the xbox add on will sell way more than any BD stand alone player. Westinghouse I thought was bought by Toshiba....so it would surprise me if they didn't sell a Tosh HD Player. But no one at Target is aware that they are going BD exclusive. Isn't weird, even thce guys who order their merchandize!!!!

Seems the CE market place is not as rosy as some seem to think:

Best Buy:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6453292.html

Circuit City:

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6453783.html

http://img364.imageshack.us/img364/6309/blackknightwm7.jpg (http://img364.imageshack.us/my.php?image=blackknightwm7.jpg)

ROFL

LMAO !
Thats the funniest thing i've seen in this thread so far. Funnier than even hddvd supporters trying to play off the blockbuster news.
Seriously I cannot believe this is still being discussed.
1450 more stores will carry blu-ray exclusively. In the couple of stores i've seen, including the one near me, blu-ray titles outnumber hddvd titles almost 2 to 1 and on top of that, i've never seen more than 2 hddvd titles checked out. Even with titles like Batman Begins, Troy, V for Vendetta, Children of Men, they collect dust !

How can this news be viewed as something that won't benefit blu-ray ?
The impact of this announcement won't affect sales now but given 6 months or so, we'll begin to see the effect.

Both BB and CC are doing better selling HD DVD Players than BD players. I believe even at Target the xbox add on will sell way more than any BD stand alone player. Westinghouse I thought was bought by Toshiba....so it would surprise me if they didn't sell a Tosh HD Player. But no one at Target is aware that they are going BD exclusive. Isn't weird, even thce guys who order their merchandize!!!!

Plazman, now you claim to be a business guy... but you're misspelling 'merchandise,' using four exclamation marks following it, and confused about the Westinghouse/Toshiba deal. What Toshiba bought was Westinghouse the nuclear power company. Westinghouse Digital - the company you're concerned with - is a California based sales concern for Taiwanese suppliers, and is completely independent of Toshiba (and the other Westinghouse). They use the Westinghouse name under license.

Isn't it time for the obligatory change of the thread title yet?

Westinghouse I thought was bought by Toshiba

Unless you are in the market for a nuclear power plant I don't think that Westinghouse is going to be very useful at all.

OK, great. So, if quantity of titles is so crucial, why does that favor BD?

Number of titles (and number of exclusives) across formats is pretty much a tie at this point, and I believe HD DVD is either ahead, or will be within a month or so.

The reason it would favor BD is because of the fact that BB will only have Blu-Ray in it's stores, beyond the trial stores. We are early adopters by and large on this forum and obviously have Internet access. Have you looked at the latest statistics for Americans with ANY Internet access?? Pretty much half of this country doesn't even have Internet access to rent from Netflix or BB, but I bet they have a BB close to their house. When they walk into that BB and only see Blu-Ray????

FWIW, here's an article in a Canadian newspaper, the National Post. It does talk about the Blockbuster anouncement as a possible "death blow" to HD-DVD. But it also provides some "not so fast, it ain't over yet" ammunition for HD-DVD:

http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/financialpost/story.html?id=31845479-08fd-4022-b873-0f6630772db9&k=67670

Interesting ...


"It will be very difficult for HD-DVD to match the heft of a Blockbuster/ Blu-ray deal."


Deal? Does he know something we don't?

Unless you are in the market for a nuclear power plant I don't think that Westinghouse is going to be very useful at all.

True true:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/japans_toshiba_1.php

$50 Billion - looks like Toshiba may do VERY well with this deal.

True true:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/japans_toshiba_1.php

$50 Billion - looks like Toshiba may do VERY well with this deal.

That must be false, Sony is the evil corporation.

edit: Holy misleading title, helping the Chinese develop nuclear power isn't exactly 'Selling nukes to China'.

The reason it would favor BD is because of the fact that BB will only have Blu-Ray in it's stores, beyond the trial stores. We are early adopters by and large on this forum and obviously have Internet access. Have you looked at the latest statistics for Americans with ANY Internet access?? Pretty much half of this country doesn't even have Internet access to rent from Netflix or BB, but I bet they have a BB close to their house. When they walk into that BB and only see Blu-Ray????

The last quoted number is that 78% have access to the internet.

And if you want to "crunch" numbers using last year as a guide:

Netflix - $1 billion

BB - $5.5 billion

Total DVD rental revenue - $7.5 billion

As BB was able to keep up with NF - the 2 cancel each other out leaving BB's walkin business at $4.5 billion which is spread over 5000+ stores in the USA so 60% of their business is walkin

True true:

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2006/01/japans_toshiba_1.php

$50 Billion - looks like Toshiba may do VERY well with this deal.

5 free HD DVD's and 2 Nuclear atoms with the purchase of any Toshiba HD DVD player.

Sorry I put the !!!! since I was in a hurry to type after getting what I thought was relevant info on sales. Also, I was wondering about the Westinghouse since many BB used to have their HD DVD demo hooked up to a Westinghouse LCD....now it looks like many have moved to Toshiba LCDs.

This week (so far). BB at Reston Towncenter, VA have sold 0 BD players, 0 PS3, 1 HD DVD add on and 2 Tosh A20. No A2 in stock. BD titles sold a little more than 2X as much as HD DVD. Just one data point...also no returns of HD DVD players. There were 3 BD open box items - 2 Sony (S1), 1 Sammy.

That must be false, Sony is the evil corporation.

edit: Holy misleading title, helping the Chinese develop nuclear power isn't exactly 'Selling nukes to China'.

Exactly! I'm glad you noticed and noted that. All I can say is "consider the source" on that one.

But what any of this has do with HD DVD or BD or Blockbuster is beyond me. ;)

Bradley

they are catalog titles being released during the dead season in order to inflate sales. most of them will sell very little.

the other factors the cited article omits are:
- by 2010 ps3 install base will be huge and anyone who has followed this should understand the impact ps3 has had on this race.
- by 2010 bd will dominate pc drive market due to its capacity of 200GB.

-

This is all just your opinion, of course ... they aren't really factors.

That said, the big rush of BR titles at the beginning of the year, when HD DVD didn't have many releases were ... yup, you guessed it, catalog titles. :rolleyes:

Blu-ray, in a lab, has a capacity of 200GB. This doesn't work mass market, or with the current generation hardware. In fact, HD-DVD can handle 10 layers, for 150GB capacity, 170GB if they use the TL51-based spec. The point is, this isn't even part of the spec and would require that everyone buy new stuff to use it.

It is a silly notion to even remotely trust or buy into any prediction that keeps this battle at such a close margin for another three years. 1.7 to 1 factor by 2010 seems to be as far off as trying to predict how many hurricanes are going to hit the US this year... "videobusiness" needs to find some smarter people then...

I think this is one of the biggest issues with these types of posts ...

If it's a Pro Blu-ray article, then the people are 'smart' and know what they're talking about and everyone should listen to them.

If it's a Pro HD DVD article, then the people are stupid, and need to be replaced and everyone should ignore their silly claims.

... and vice versa, of course ...

I've seen several pro Blu-ray videobusiness articles ... are those wrong too? :rolleyes:

Content is king! Don't kid yourselves. Although I prefer quality content, J6P only sees quantity. I will post a longer post tonight about my decision to finally jump off the fence and buy an HD Disc player, but I will say this decision has me heading for the store this weekend to buy a Blu-Ray player. I haven't bought a Sony product since the original Walkman. As a matter of fact I've owned only Toshiba HDTV's and DVD's players for several years now and am a PC gamer and could care less about the console wars. I currently own a 65" Tosh HDTV. Not only that, but I haven't posted on AVS in ages, because I've been happy with my choices of TV's, DVD player, and DVR's.

I'm sorry, but the writing appears to be on the wall with BB's decision IMHO. Although the longer post is coming later, I can say this right now. Only ONE MAJOR studio exclusive to HD-DVD, prices for both players getting close to each other, and the fact that I can just run around the corner next month to rent an HD Disc. Heck nevermind, I don't need a long post, that's enough. :rolleyes:

P.S.- I'd have paid $1000 for a unified HD Disc format player, but no way was I gonna jump in at even $250 with a format war. Kid yourselves all you want HD-DVD supporters. I have rented online for 2 years, but the ability to run around the corner and grab the latest release from the local BB is priceless. Long waits/throttling with Netflix as a HIGH renter made me jump to Blockbuster Online, so I could grab the latest release in store without paying more. So now, if the HD disk has a long wait online, I can just go two blocks to get the Blu-Ray disc at the store. This is the first nail in the coffin for HD-DVD.

Are you sure your local BlockBuster is one of the chosen stores? If you were willing to spend $1000 on a combo player, then why not spend $800 and pick up one of each player? You also don't know if the Blu-ray disc will be available at the store. Chances are if it's not available online, it's not going to be available at a B&M ... unless they stock an inordinate amount of copies. *shrug*

NOTHING HAS BEEN DECIDED YET. HD DVD will be fine, with the recent surge of player sales all these new customers will now be looking for software to buy. This will bring an increase in sales to all those who make, sell or rent HD DVD"s which of course will add to their bottom line whatever that may be. This was a bad move on BB's part because they more or less just said they don't care about these consumers and many of them will go elsewhere. The ones who are laughing now are BB's competitors who I'm sure will gladly take the added business at their expense. It was way too early to make a decision like this and they may end up suffering in the end because of it. We shall see!

NOTHING HAS BEEN DECIDED YET. HD DVD will be fine, with the recent surge of player sales all these new customers will now be looking for software to buy. This will bring an increase in sales to all those who make, sell or rent HD DVD"s which of course will add to their bottom line whatever that may be. This was a bad move on BB's part because they more or less just said they don't care about these consumers and many of them will go elsewhere. The ones who are laughing now are BB's competitors who I'm sure will gladly take the added business at their expense. It was way too early to make a decision like this and they may end up suffering in the end because of it. We shall see!

Or, most of those 50K new consumers will do what the last ones who bought during the promotion did.

Sit around waiting 12 weeks for their stupid free HD movies to arrive before buying any.

The mail in rebate and slow fullfillment was one of the most retarded decisions Toshiba has made yet.

Isn't it time for the obligatory change of the thread title yet?
Uh,,,,I'm late...

Or, most of those 50K new consumers will do what the last ones who bought during the promotion did.

Sit around waiting 12 weeks for their stupid free HD movies to arrive before buying any.

The mail in rebate and slow fullfillment was one of the most retarded decisions Toshiba has made yet.

I would have guessed the opposite. If I had purchased a player that came with free movies that didn't arrive until 12 weeks later I'd still want to use the product until then. So I'd rent or buy other titles. I'd think getting the free titles right away would lead to less chance of puchases or rentals right away as you'd take the time to go through the titles you got free first.

Uh,,,,I'm late...

Then get it in gear!!!

:p

I think the reason AVS has become the premier Home Theater enthusiast's forum is because of the great work the moderators do here under very difficult circumstances (and also David and Allen). But I will go on record here as saying the current thread title (below) is ridiculous. If one of the moderators set it to this then I am truly disappointed.

"250 Blockbuster B&M stores carry Blu-ray & HD DVD - 1450 more to carry Blu-ray only!"