From the Associated Press

AP Exclusive:
Blockbuster to favor Blu-ray HD discs over DVD format
By Gary Gentile / AP Business Writer
Article Launched: 06/17/2007 02:40:24 PM MDT

LOS ANGELES - Blockbuster Inc. will rent high-definition DVDs only in the Blu-ray format in 1,450 stores when it expands its high-def offerings next month, dealing a major blow to the rival HD DVD format.
The move, being announced Monday, could be the first step in resolving a format war that has kept confused consumers from rushing to buy new DVD players until they can determine which format will dominate the market.

Blockbuster has been renting both Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in 250 stores since late last year and found that consumers were choosing Blu-ray titles more than 70 percent of the time.

"The consumers are sending us a message. I can't ignore what I'm seeing," Matthew Smith, senior vice president of merchandising at Blockbuster, told The Associated Press.

Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online, the Dallas-based company said.

The decision was helped in large part by the lopsided availability of titles in Blu-ray, Smith said. All major studios except one

Advertisement

are releasing films in Blu-ray, with several, including The Walt Disney Co., releasing exclusively in Blu-ray. Only Universal Studios, which is owned by General Electric Co., exclusively supports HD DVD.
Warner Bros., a unit of Time Warner Inc., and Paramount Pictures, which is owned by Viacom Inc., release films in both formats.

"When you walk into a store and see all this product available in Blu-ray and there is less available on HD DVD, I think the consumer gets that," Smith said.

The rollout of Sony Corp.'s PlayStation 3 game console, which comes standard with a Blu-ray drive, also helped give the format momentum, Smith said.

Blockbuster's decision, while significant on it's own, could boost Blu-ray even more if other retailers follow suit.

"It will help shift the balance toward Blu-ray, clearly," said Richard Doherty, president of The Envisioneering Group, a research company.

The North American HD DVD Promotional Group said Blockbuster's decision was shortsighted and skewed by the success of films released by Blu-ray studios in the first three months of the year. The group said HD DVD has since gained momentum, selling more players and popular titles such as "The 40-Year Old Virgin" and "The Matrix" trilogy.

"I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the group.

The two formats have been battling it out since they both hit the market last year. Studios hope the high-definition discs, with their sharper picture and more room for interactive special features and games, will replace standard definition DVDs.

The formats are incompatible and neither will play on standard DVD players, although standard DVDs can be viewed with either a Blu-ray or HD DVD player.

The Blu-ray camp has been helped by the release of such huge hits as "Casino Royale," ''Pirates of the Caribbean" and "Spider-Man" coming out exclusively in its format.

As the battle has unfolded, the price of the high-definition players needed to show the movies has plummeted. Toshiba Corp., the major supporter of HD DVD, is selling its player for $299 with a rebate, down from $499 when it first went on sale.

Sony, which is pushing Blu-ray, recently slashed the price of its player by more than half to $499. The player retailed for $1,000 when it first was introduced.

wow this sucks..I was just getting ready to sign up for blockbuster in hopes of renting HD-DVDs from the local stores through total access.

40 year old Virgin is a popular title?. Not good news for HD-DVD or Blockbuster.

Good job Blockbuster, as a long time member it looks like I will have to switch to Netflix. You don't carry the product I want so you don't get my money :cool:

It's not a blow. It's just a flesh wound.

Visions of Monty Python flow through my mind...

Sounds a bit premature of Blockbuster to make that decision when Toshiba's standalones are currently selling well.

70% is for Blu-Ray? Probably from PS3 owners trying to justify their $600 purchase since there isn't many PS3 games available.

I'd like to see Netflix's HD rental ratio.

It's not a blow. It's just a flesh wound.

Visions of Monty Python flow through my mind...

LOL!

------


Anyway if true, this is another major victory for Blu-ray. J6P is Blockbuster's #1 customer and soon all he'll see are blue cases in the HD section. :)

http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/collections/hdDvdPackage

Spiderman?

Bob : Do you have a link to that article, i want to put it on my site....

Here's a link:
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/news/s_513097.html
or
http://www.elpasotimes.com/entertainment/ci_6164939

Who will be next to drop HD DVD from its stores?

I think this is a pretty big blow for HD DVD. After numerous problems with Netflix, I cancelled my subscription awhile back and have been patiently waiting for my local Blockbuster stores to get HD DVD or Blu-Ray or both (I am neutral). I am happy to hear that Blockbuster is going to expand Blu-Ray to all their stores. This is good news for Blu..

So what are these 250 stores, the big money makers? If they are going blu only, i dont follow the "Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online, the Dallas-based company said." story.

wow, right now Wal-Mart has 1 more blu-ray disc than my blockbuster carries....and that would be 1 total.

If dual format players don't become available under $500 soon (ones that work with all BD features and HD DVD features) then all the warriors will be dead...kind of a like a double knock out in boxing. No one wins and it becomes a niche format. (I.e. minidisc, SACD, DVD-A, etc)

Yeah and someone better quickly find a way to backup any HD format I buy.

This is FANTASTIC News!! I think we will see Bestbuy doing the same thing shortly and other retailers as well. I have seen decreased shelf-space for HD-DVD at my local Bestbuy stores, Circuit City, Wal-Mart and Sears.

Look for a "Big" announcement from the BDA on 6/20/07.

~Josh

In Toronto, I know Rogers is also doing a trial of both formats at some of their large B&M locations (Jarvis and Bloor comes to mind) - if they also decide to roll out Blu-ray exclusively at all their locations, in Ontario at least HD-DVD will be more or less locked out of the traditional rental market.

Isn't everything a monopoly in Canada? TV, Banks, Wireless Service, Heathcare, etc. ;)

major blow for HDDVD

someone will do the same in a month or two, maybe bestbuy?

This announcement clearly is a problem for HD DVD but not a death blow. It may turn out to be one but does not have to be. If HD-DVD machines continue to sell well, Blockbuster may have to change their minds. It would be interesting to see if there was any behind the scenes maneuvering by the BDA with Blockbuster to get this result. In any event, there is still very little interest in HD media by consumers are evidenced by the HD/BD sales figures and will continue to be until player prices come way down. DVD is enough for most people. DVD rentals will continue to dominate. It would be interesting to see just how well BD rentals do at Blockbuster. In any event, it looks like I will have to get that new Panny this week.

In the short run it could get some buyers to move to renting and hurt disc sales figures, but in the long run I think having discs available for rent is important and should help Blu-ray player sales (especially when combined with the $499 MSRP for the new Sony). As far as Universal complaining about the short period, Ken Graffeo and Universal chose not to have many releases in Q1. They knew it could have consequences. Just like Fox should know now that there could be consequences to their slow to non-existant period.

As far as still renting HD DVDs at those 250 stores and online, I wonder if those 250 stores will continue to get new HD DVDs in or just rent the ones they already own. I'm guessing that online they will continue getting new HD DVDs.

I rent from 2 Hollywood Video stores locally and they have about 2/3rds Blu-ray and 1/3rd HD DVD from last time I checked. This could make their HD DVD releases more popular in comparison since the Blockbusters near them don't currently rent discs for either format.

--Darin

I think the issue is that this will begin to create a snowball effect for HD-DVD sales.

One of the things I've heard from friends who are aware of this format war is "I'll buy when I can rent the movies".

Blockbuster themselves may not be the ones firing the fatal shot here, but they may start a chain of events that leads to that shot in the end.
Yep. Best Buy may look at this as a sign and stop stocking HD-DVD. That will cause CC to stop stocking HD-DVD and that will cause CompUSA/Wal-mart/target etc. to stop stocking HD-DVD and so on.

It’s a good theory.

Like it or not this is pretty bad for HD DVD. While I anticipated an eventual move by retailers to "end" the format war by deciding for the consumer what they would stock, I never expected it to happen this quickly.

Rather sad if this thing gets decided by a gaming console.

I'm an HD-DVD supporter and there's no way to spin this into a positive. This is good news for Blu-ray... for real! :(

Didn't you know? Selling 1 movie per player is the BDAs idea of "kicking teeth"

No you are wrong...actually it's 0,5 sold movie per player :D

I'd say that this "COULD" be a big blow for HD-DVD if they don't play it right from here on in. No doubt there were some deals forked out in the board rooms to come up with this deal, and there is no reason why HD-DVD PRG shouldn't reapproach Blockbuster to offer them an incentive to carry HD-DVD in stores.

Right now, I don't see HD rentals being that big of a market - PS3 factor not withstanding. But the coming 12 months will shape up the destiny of both formats.

And what is your opinion on Blockbuster exclusively rolling out Blu-ray?

"Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online"

"Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online"


do you know how many stores blocbuster has?

Looks like I'll be getting a Netflix subscription then! :o

Like it or not this is pretty bad for HD DVD. While I anticipated an eventual move by retailers to "end" the format war by deciding for the consumer what they would stock, I never expected it to happen this quickly.

Rather sad if this thing gets decided by a gaming console.

Most sensible post here. I don't see why anyone would be happy about that, regardless if it favors their choice. I guess we no longer live in the times where/when consumers chose what they want, instead leaving it up to corporations to "tell" us what we want.

I guess this all falls exactly how Sony wanted it too. Force the format onto everyone.

And what is your opinion on Blockbuster exclusively rolling out Blu-ray?

It is a definite win for the extremely Pro-DRM Sony/Fox. At least when(if) I get a Blu-Ray player I'll be able to watch Blu-Ray movies and I won't have to purchase any.

When does everyone think other retailers such as Bestbuy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart will follow Blockbuster's lead? I predict Bestbuy in Q4-2007, the other two in Q1-2008.

I think Wal-Mart has already stopped selling HD-DVD standalone hardware.

~Josh

Thumbs way up for Blockbuster for calling it correctly!

I'm an HD-DVD supporter and there's no way to spin this into a positive. This is good news for Blu-ray... for real! :(

Thank you for being honest. :)

I'm quite surprised by this "news" since I just picked this pamphlet (in French) at a local Blockbuster (small town in Quebec, Canada). But still, a major blow if true.

http://i9.tinypic.com/660im48.png
http://i14.tinypic.com/62gabkp.png
http://i15.tinypic.com/4zisbv4.png

When does everyone think other retailers such as Bestbuy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart will follow Blockbuster's lead? I predict Bestbuy in Q4-2007, the other two in Q1-2008.

I think Wal-Mart has already stopped selling HD-DVD standalone hardware.

~Josh

Actually Wal Mart is apparently carrying their own badged version of the HD-A2 with an HD-A2W model number.

I doubt they would have their own model number if they weren't going to carry the players in some fashion for a while.

But, good job trying to do your normal "spin bad news into the apocalypse" thing.

Wow, this means I'm going to be able to rent Blu-ray movies from Blockbuster since they'll have them at more locations and more variety per location. Won't have to depend upon Netflix anylonger so will be able to get to see movies sooner. I've been trying to rent movies in Blu-ray to make sure I want to buy them, so this will definitely help alot.

Thank you Blockbuster for your business common sense. And, by the way, you're tearing Netflix a new one!

Hip, hip, hooray! :D

I am somewhat sorry for the HD DVD supporters out there but if true this is a very good sign for Blu-ray and makes perfect sense as well. After all if more than twice as many people were renting Blu-ray than HD DVD it only logical that Blockbuster would choose to stock Blu-ray.


So what are these 250 stores, the big money makers? If they are going blu only, i dont follow the "Blockbuster will continue to rent HD DVD titles in the original 250 locations and online, the Dallas-based company said." story.It is not that Blockbuster has gone Blu-ray only and instead it is because of the rental ratio they have gotten for Blu-ray since last year which caused them to stock Blu-ray nationally. As bitter as some of the HD DVD supporters are because of this Blockbuster only made a logical decision based on actual rentals.

Rather sad if this thing gets decided by a gaming console.


msft cold have done the same. if they had used halo (msft owned game) to lhelp launch the format. game console market is much bigger than high end ht market.

Looks like I'll be getting a Netflix subscription then! :oThey said that they would still rent HD DVDs online.
Most sensible post here. I don't see why anyone would be happy about that, regardless if it favors their choice. I guess we no longer live in the times where/when consumers chose what they want, instead leaving it up to corporations to "tell" us what we want.I understand what you are saying, but Blockbuster did an experimental period to see what people would rent and according to that article the customers rented Blu-rays at a high enough ratio over HD DVDs to get Blockbuster to go with just Blu-rays for their bigger rollout. Maybe it wasn't the consumers you wanted or the most vocal ones, but looks like it was consumers who voted with their pocketbooks at selected Blockbusters during this period.

--Darin

Actually Wal Mart is apparently carrying their own badged version of the HD-A2 with an HD-A2W model number.

I doubt they would have their own model number if they weren't going to carry the players in some fashion for a while.

But, good job trying to do your normal "spin bad news into the apocalypse" thing.

Sorry, I did not know of this. I could not find it on their webpage.

~Josh

When does everyone think other retailers such as Bestbuy, Circuit City, Wal-Mart will follow Blockbuster's lead? I predict Bestbuy in Q4-2007, the other two in Q1-2008.

I think Wal-Mart has already stopped selling HD-DVD standalone hardware.

~Josh

BB needs to be careful what they dont carry or there will be nothing for them to sell. Their music section is pathetic unless you are 18 and in need of bubble gum pop music. If they dont get their pricing in line, it wont matter what they sale, as no one will buy from them, in favor of going the online stores. i think they need to worry about getting people in the store, not keeping them from going in.

This is the kind of thing we need to resolve the format war.

Look for a "Big" announcement from the BDA on 6/20/07.

Oh geez, what is it this time? ;) At least we don't have to wait long to find out if your source is correct.

Good job Blockbuster, as a long time member it looks like I will have to switch to Netflix. You don't carry the product I want so you don't get my moneyOn the flip side I, and probably many others, will sign up for Blockbusters's Total Access plan if this is true. Also instead of switching to Netflix, which sounds like it is being done out of anger, why not just become a Blu-ray owner?


Sounds a bit premature of Blockbuster to make that decision when Toshiba's standalones are currently selling well.Well Blockbuster has had over half a year of data to work with so how long did you expect them to wait before making this decision?


70% is for Blu-Ray? Probably from PS3 owners trying to justify their $600 purchase since there isn't many PS3 games available.Wow, a bit bitter aren't you? No need to attack the PS3 over this and Blockbuster only did the logical thing here.


But then again, I can see you're riding the 70% figure from Blockbuster as if it the story everywhere else.Well the rental data is an important factor for a rental store like Blockbuster and the one they would care most about when deciding to nationally stock a new video format.


Most sensible post here. I don't see why anyone would be happy about that, regardless if it favors their choice. I guess we no longer live in the times where/when consumers chose what they want, instead leaving it up to corporations to "tell" us what we want.Actually considering that both Blu-ray and HD DVD are backed by multi-billion dollar companies this argument rings hollow. Now if it was Blu-ray vs VMD that might be different but don't tell me that Microsoft, Toshiba, and Universal aren't trying to force HD DVD into the consumer market. Neither side is good or bad they are just companies trying to get royalties.


I guess this all falls exactly how Sony wanted it too. Force the format onto everyone.No need for the Sony hatred and blaming Sony for something that has nothing to do with them doesn't even make sense.

They said that they would still rent HD DVDs online.
I understand what you are saying, but Blockbuster did an experimental period to see what people would rent and according to that article the customers rented Blu-rays at a high enough ratio over HD DVDs to get Blockbuster to go with just Blu-rays for their bigger rollout. Maybe it wasn't the consumers you wanted or the most vocal ones, but looks like it was consumers who voted with their pocketbooks at selected Blockbusters during this period.

--Darin

They might rent more HD DVD titles if they actually stocked them. I have HD DVDs that have been in my Blockbuster queue literally for months with "long waits". These are popular titles that have been released for almost a year that they just can't seem to fill orders on.

It's pretty easy to say that you are renting more BD than HD if you stock 10X as many copies of BD titles.

There could be other extraneous factors at work here also. It could be that BD gets fewer "mis-rents" where someone rents the wrong disc, thinking that an HD DVD will play on their regular DVD player.

Additionally it is possible that Blockbuster gets fewer complaints of "bad discs" due to BD having a generally more robust error correction system than HD DVD.

Yawn.

Do people still rent from BB B&M's? One of the three in my neighborhood closed up shop, and every time I drive past the other two, it's a veritable ghost town.

I posted this elsewhere, but it applies to this thread and I would like to see if any of the people who push the importance of high attach rates is willing to stand up and take a position toward that with regard to this news:
For those who think that attach rates are the most important thing (more important than total disc sales), they should consider this good news since it will skew HD DVD ownership more toward buyers and less toward people who just rent or those who both rent and buy.

So, anybody here willing to stand up and say that this is good news for HD DVD if it raises or keeps attach rates high?In case people haven't figured it out, this is just one of the reasons that maximizing attach rates is not the goal for either side.

--Darin

The story is going live.

Another link:

http://www.elpasotimes.com/entertainment/ci_6164939

There could be other extraneous factors at work here also. It could be that BD gets fewer "mis-rents" where someone rents the wrong disc, thinking that an HD DVD will play on their regular DVD player.

I'm hearing that is a big problem for retailers, customers buying HD-DVDs assuming they can play them on their DVD players and see their favorite movies in HD.

I guess this is where having the DVD in your name was a backfire.

They might rent more HD DVD titles if they actually stocked them. I have HD DVDs that have been in my Blockbuster queue literally for months with "long waits". These are popular titles that have been released for almost a year that they just can't seem to fill orders on.

It's pretty easy to say that you are renting more BD than HD if you stock 10X as many copies of BD titles.I expect the people making the decisions for Blockbuster (not those working in stores) to have a handle on how many of each disc they have and how many requests there are in queues for each type of disc.

There is a Blockbuster just a couple of miles from Microsoft that rents both and from what I have seen, they have had about equal numbers of discs for both formats. Which was actually quite a few. I seem to recall maybe 70 or 80 discs for each format maybe a month or 2 ago.

--Darin

I think Wal-Mart has already stopped selling HD-DVD standalone hardware.

~Josh

Josh i love your posts...funny stuff :D

On the flip side I, and probably many others, will sign up for Blockbusters's Total Access plan if this is true. Also instead of switching to Netflix, which sounds like it is being done out of anger, why not just become a Blu-ray owner?



I'm gonna get a BR player one day, but the FUD from some of the regulars here prevents me from buying one; I have to spend my time smacking them down so I don't have time to buy one ;) Not going to buy a BR player until the price is reasonable, i.e. the price I got my HD DVD player. Another reason is lack of finalized mandatory specifications, I'd rather wait a year and get a $200 Blu-Ray player with finalized mandatory specs than a $500 one which may or may not be fully functional with all future Blu-Ray discs.

Plus Netflix offers more HD DVD movies than Blockbuster online does. So no it isn't out of anger, it is out of my capitalistic ways. If a company doesn't carry a product I want I will not give them my money. They have to earn it, Microsoft has (XBox 360), Toshiba has (HD DVD), even in some cases Sony has (My 7 Megapixel Cybershot) but since Blockbuster isn't going to be offering the products I want then I won't shop there. That is just the way it is whether Blockbuster likes it or not.

Sorry, I did not know of this. I could not find it on their webpage.

~Josh
Well that's why you don't post statements as fact without knowing what you're talking about...

There could be other extraneous factors at work here also. It could be that BD gets fewer "mis-rents" where someone rents the wrong disc, thinking that an HD DVD will play on their regular DVD player.Was it 70/30 with the extra "mis-rents" for the HD DVD side included, or without those? ;)

As your post points out, there are negatives to using such a generic name for their format that could be confused with what people are used to elsewhere (DVD players that output high definition signals for instance), besides the positives to that name.

--Darin

That is just the way it is whether Blockbuster likes it or not.Completely fair and they understand that. Which is probably why they did the experimental period with 250 stores to see what would happen before making a decision for the larger rollout. It seems that there are enough people on the opposite side as you for this decision to be made.

--Darin

Maybe instead of a 'BUY HD-DVD DAY FROM AMAZON' fan campaign there should be a 'SIGN UP FOR NETFLIX TO SUPPORT HD-DVD RENTALS' campaign. :)

I'm gonna get a BR player one day, but the FUD from some of the regulars here prevents me from buying one; I have to spend my time smacking them down so I don't have time to buy one ;) Not going to buy a BR player until the price is reasonable, i.e. the price I got my HD DVD player. Another reason is lack of finalized mandatory specifications, I'd rather wait a year and get a $200 Blu-Ray player with finalized mandatory specs than a $500 one which may or may not be fully functional with all future Blu-Ray discs.


that's something bd really needs to address, players have to be functionally complete. at this point only ps3 qualifies as one.

Was it 70/30 with the extra "mis-rents" for the HD DVD side included, or without those? ;)

As your post points out, there are negatives to using such a generic name for their format that could be confused with what people are used to elsewhere (DVD players that output high definition signals for instance), besides the positives to that name.

--Darin

While a valid question it's too bad that Blockbuster opted to call this when just now HD DVD hardware sales seem to be seriously picking up.

I'd like to keep up on this thread and discuss things in a reasonable manner, but the fan boy gloating has already commenced, so I'll leave people in peace to go hug their PS3s.

The one thing that I am wondering is what, if anything, the HD DVD camp will do to respond.

At this point it is going to be all or nothing time for them, as there's no question that the typical consumer will be greatly influenced by what he can rent at his local video store.

This is just awesome news. :D :D :D

Then go do that better stuff, by all means.
I am. I'm watching my Spurs championship parade streamed live on the net.

But that doesn't mean I can't check in here and get a laugh at all the people getting giddy about what stores they'll never step foot in decide to put on their shelves. Though I guess I should say that if BB decided to go with HD-DVD for most of their stores I still couldn't care less. I guess I just don't have as much emotion invested as some here...

While a valid question it's too bad that Blockbuster opted to call this when just now HD DVD hardware sales seem to be seriously picking up.

I'd like to keep up on this thread and discuss things in a reasonable manner, but the fan boy gloating has already commenced, so I'll leave people in peace to go hug their PS3s.

The one thing that I am wondering is what, if anything, the HD DVD camp will do to respond.

At this point it is going to be all or nothing time for them, as there's no question that the typical consumer will be greatly influenced by what he can rent at his local video store.


price cut was their response... didn't work.

The one thing that I am wondering is what, if anything, the HD DVD camp will do to respond.Me too. This isn't a death blow and the HD DVD camp definitely could respond, but will they and how is a very good question. They need to keep Universal on their team and away from neutral. Maybe this news will make Ken Graffeo dig in his heals even more. I don't know how stubborn he is. Other places he has said things along the lines of wait until Q4. Maybe he'll dig deeper into the vault and bring us some better stuff than planned.

And how does this affect Wal-Mart's decisions this year and next? I don't know, but wish I could listen in on some of their meetings.

For those who care first about HD on disc succeeding and less about their favorite format winning, I think we can take some positive news from this. Blockbuster did an experiment in 250 stores and the result could have been that interest was low enough that they wouldn't roll out to more stores. But we can see that something is getting them to expand to have close to 7x as many stores renting HD discs.

--Darin

Wow, a bit bitter aren't you? No need to attack the PS3 over this and Blockbuster only did the logical thing here.

Bitter I'm not. I always planned on owning a BD player... just have zero plans on buying a PS3 for one. I've stated that (what you quoted) on a few message boards, and honestly, no one has really refuted that claim. It does ruff some feathers here... ;)

If I owned a PS3 and had nothing to play, I'd watch some BD too. Sony seems to care more about Blu Ray then gaming. I'm just interested in seeing the ratio over at Netflix. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd bet a PS3 owner is more likely to rent BD's at Blockbuster over Netflix for obvious reasons. :D

I'd like to keep up on this thread and discuss things in a reasonable manner, but the fan boy gloating has already commenced, so I'll leave people in peace to go hug their PS3s.


I actually don't see a lot of "fanboy gloating" in here. I actually see more sour grapes and people now saying they won't support Blockbuster now. I am wondering how far people are willing to take this "movie format war" in there own personal lives. Is it worth sacrificing the clear convenience of being able to pick up a movie from your local Blockbuster on a whim? To drop it off and trade it for another? Is it worth all of that just to make some "statement" I wonder.

Honestly I think many people will find this welcome news as it is probably the clearest signal we have ever gotten to what our next High Definition movie format will be. A lot of people are weery and tired of this whole format "war" thing and all the confusion, and just want to move on to getting as many movies and players as we can on one format that is compatible. For people wanting a clear signal of the end to the confusion and to the format war this is excellent news.

No matter how you slice it, good news for Blu.

However, I just dont get how BD only folk dont get an icky feeling over Sony about to control the whole shibang. Are you guys cool with them making the movie? distributing it? replicating it? region coding it to death? etc. etc.?

BD is great technology!, I just have issue with SONY itself. Feels like they keep trying to bend me and my fellow consumer over.

No matter how you slice it, good news for Blu.

However, I just dont get how BD only folk dont get an icky feeling over Sony about to control the whole shibang. Are you guys cool with them making the movie? distributing it? replicating it? region coding it to death? etc. etc.?

BD is great technology!, I just have issue with SONY itself. Feels like they keep trying to bend me and my fellow consumer over.

I see it as Sony and 99% of the CE industry saving us from Toshiba and its stranglehold on the DVD market. BDA does NOT = Sony. Phillips is a co-founder, why dont you hate phillips?

Very good news for Blu-ray. Certainly not a death blow to HD DVD, but a sign of the way this thing will play out for sure.

Not going to buy a BR player until the price is reasonable, i.e. the price I got my HD DVD player. Another reason is lack of finalized mandatory specifications, I'd rather wait a year and get a $200 Blu-Ray player with finalized mandatory specs than a $500 one which may or may not be fully functional with all future Blu-Ray discs.I can somewhat understand waiting for a BD-Live player but I would point out that I have yet to see a full functional HD DVD player with an Enhanced Video secondary decoder (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=9533119&&#post9533119). As such if we are talking fully functional stand alone player it looks to me like neither format has such a thing at the moment.


Plus Netflix offers more HD DVD movies than Blockbuster online does.Possible, I have never tallied up the two to see which one stocks more Blu-ray/HD DVD movies.


I've stated that (what you quoted) on a few message boards, and honestly, no one has really refuted that claim.How exactly could anyone refute a guess that can neither be proven nor denied since it is about what PS3 owners might do in the future? Personally it wouldn't apply to me since I don't see myself buying less Blu-ray movies in the future as more PS3 games come out but I don't know what other PS3 owners might do. Than again I don't think you know that either which is why the only thing that might prove or refute it is time.


I'm just interested in seeing the ratio over at Netflix. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd bet a PS3 owner would rent BD's at Blockbuster over Netflix for obvious reasons. :DMaybe, but wouldn't that even be a better reason for Blockbuster to stock Blu-ray so they might get both Blu-ray and PS3 game rentals? Also it would be interesting to see the Blu-ray/HD DVD rental ratio for Netflix but at the moment we only know that for Blockbuster.

At one point I thought that the combo discs might help HD DVD if they could get places like Blockbuster combos so they could rent them as HD or as regular DVDs, but it seems like it hasn't ended up mattering. There probably isn't enough capacity for making combos at this point and there are other issues like cost with making those.

I think Blockbuster would have more success renting BDs if they would put a sign by the PS3 games letting people know that HD movies are available to PS3 owners on Blu-ray discs.

--Darin

The HD-DVDs I have in stock in my Blockbuster Q are seldom available, particularly if they are new releases. I always seem to get a "Long Wait" status on 90% of them. No wonder then that I rent more from Netflix than Blockbuster.

Why is their a question mark at the end of this thread title? No fanboy on earth could say that this isn't a blow to HD DVD with a straight face!

How exactly could anyone refute a guess that can neither be proven nor denied since it is about what PS3 owners might do in the future?

It was asked a few times to PS3 owners (official playstation forums) if they resort to watching more Blu Ray movies since the gaming selection isn't much of one as of yet, and many of the responses were yes. That is, before people came in and had the thread deleted because it wasn't exactly portraying the PS3 in a positive perspective, which must always happen on that forum for any lengthy discussion to be had.

Whether they'll continue to do so once the library is fuller, is anyones guess, and left to be seen.

It was asked a few times to PS3 owners (official playstation forums) if they resort to watching more Blu Ray movies since the gaming selection isn't much of one as of yet, and many of the responses were yes. That is, before people came in and had the thread deleted because it wasn't exactly portraying the PS3 in a positive perspective, which must always happen on that forum for any lengthy discussion to be had.

Whether they'll continue to do so once the library is fuller, is anyones guess, and left to be seen.

The mentality that there is even a POSSIBILITY that people who own the PS3 and are already renting Blu-ray movies will suddenly cease their interest in movies, for ANY reason, is absurd don't you think?

Whether they'll continue to do so once the library is fuller, is anyones guess, and left to be seen.

People need to stop using this retarded theory that PS3 users will automatically stop buying Blu-ray movies once better games are available. Did those people buy DVDs too after buying games? Those who buy Blu-rays on PS3 aren't all going save a few bucks and get the SD version knowing there's a HD alternative. Some will, some won't. Regardless, it's all balanced out by the growing userbase.

that's something bd really needs to address, players have to be functionally complete. at this point only ps3 qualifies as one.

The PS3 is BD-J 1.1 compliant?

I'm glad that I can rent anything HD at my Blockbuster....

The mentality that there is even a POSSIBILITY that people who own the PS3 and are already renting Blu-ray movies will suddenly cease their interest in movies, for ANY reason, is absurd don't you think?

I should have included "at the current rate". The majority of people who bought a PS3 are gamers... I don't understand why many here think that their main interest is some BD movies. Many gamers attribute the Blu-Ray movie functionality in the PS3 as not their main interest... but as a bonus. I'd direct you to some links, if they weren't deleted by lock and chain Sony mods.

The mentality that there is even a POSSIBILITY that people who own the PS3 and are already renting Blu-ray movies will suddenly cease their interest in movies, for ANY reason, is absurd don't you think?

i dont think so, the reason im getting br movies right now is cause no games are out. i like movies (not as much as some on this board) but i love video games. if the ps3 had some better titles, id tell HD movies all together to kiss my ass

i dont think so, the reason im getting br movies right now is cause no games are out. i like movies (not as much as some on this board) but i love video games. if the ps3 had some better titles, id tell HD movies all together to kiss my ass

So if games come out for your game console, you will STOP watching movies? Call me skeptical.

I should have included "at the current rate". The majority of people who bought a PS3 are gamers... I don't understand why many here think that their main interest is some BD movies. Many gamers attribute the Blu-Ray movie functionality in the PS3 as not their main interest... but as a bonus. I'd direct you to some links, if they weren't deleted by lock and chain Sony mods.

I fully agree. But the reason they bought the PS3 is irrelevant because video gamers like movies. It's not some weird demographic that plays video games all day and does nothing else. EVERYONE loves movies. Especially young males who buy $600 consoles. I doubt that once more games come out their interest in movies completely ceases and/or if they are continually given the choice between DVD and Blu-ray, they will magically decide they would rather go back to renting DVD instead.

BTW I think Blockbuster knows something many people on this forum have discovered with rentals, and that is how scratch resistant Blu-ray discs are and how every rented BD looks spanking brand new. They are PERFECT for the rental market.

Sounds a bit premature of Blockbuster to make that decision when Toshiba's standalones are currently selling well.That's along the lines of my initial impression as well, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that Toshiba's standalones are "selling well" (I don't think any real numbers have been released, have they?). But overall I have to wonder why Blockbuster would bother to "call this" at this point in the game. Sales (and likely rental) numbers for both formats are miniscule and Toshiba's cheapest player just recently dipped into the high-end of the mass-market pricing bracket. Why not wait to see how that move impacted rentals?

Oh well, I just signed up for Blockbuster Online yesterday, and it sounds like this won't impact me. I suppose I could stay put so as to help show them that HD DVD has a userbase, *OR* I could cancel my subscription, switch to Netflix, and send a grumpy email to Blockbuster explaining my reason for cancelling. In the end, I'll probably stay put temporarily for the same reason I signed up initially (yesterday, remember): the pricing was OK, the one-free-in-store-rental coupon was nice, and I figured I'd give them a try (I had Netflix in the past and wanted to see how Blockbuster compared). So, in other words, I'll make this decision not out of emotion but out of my own interests.

So, in other words, I'll make this decision not out of emotion but out of my own interests.

Then you should buy a Blu-ray player. It is clearly more convenient for oneself to have the ability to trade in a movie at a local store for another one rather than always mailing it in and waiting.

Also instead of switching to Netflix, which sounds like it is being done out of anger, why not just become a Blu-ray owner?Indeed. Instead of signing up for a $15/month-or-so rental plan from Netflix, why not dump your $250 (or likely much more, if you were an early adopter) HD DVD player and buy a new $500+ Blu-ray player and stick with Blockbuster? Have I got that right? Ah, if only money weren't a deciding factor in my decisions. You sound rich...will you adopt me? :)

So if games come out for your game console, you will STOP watching movies? Call me skeptical.

no i wouldnt stop watching movies, but if there were some better games out (for the 360 and the ps3) i wouldnt have bought any movies. id just rent the 1 or 2 every couple months like i used to do. right now i have 3 br movies and 15 or so hd-dvds. outside of matrix and bourne supremecy the rest of them were bought out of boredom. like i said i like movies, but i love video games. on avs its probably hard to believe but the ps3 owners that i know, the ones who arent into av, still have regular tvs, and dont even care about HD movies use their ps3 for video games. once ff13, mgs4, and the real socom come out, ill drop my netflix back down to the 5.99 one movie a month plan or cancel it altogether for a gamefly account. im just glad the summer drought is coming to an end. the q3/q4 blitz should be underway and i can get back to rotting my brain for 8+ hours a day

:rolleyes: This is just awesome news. :D :D :D

How many times can you post your cheerleader crap in the same thread?

That's along the lines of my initial impression as well, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that Toshiba's standalones are "selling well" (I don't think any real numbers have been released, have they?). But overall I have to wonder why Blockbuster would bother to "call this" at this point in the game. Sales (and likely rental) numbers for both formats are miniscule and Toshiba's cheapest player just recently dipped into the high-end of the mass-market pricing bracket. Why not wait to see how that move impacted rentals?


Not sure of current sales figures on the Tosh players, but I'd imagine that the lower price surely isn't hurting sales. Thats what gets me with this BB deal the most, instead of waiting it out to see how Tosh's current moves play out, they've gone ahead and decided that HD DVD no longer suits them. I can't deny that a 70% ratio speaks volumes for BB, but this war is not over...yet. I thought pricing played a key role in this, and were now starting to get that from both sides, but BB pretty much made their decision before the fun started.

no i wouldnt stop watching movies, but if there were some better games out (for the 360 and the ps3) i wouldnt have bought any movies. id just rent the 1 or 2 every couple months like i used to do. right now i have 3 br movies and 15 or so hd-dvds. outside of matrix and bourne supremecy the rest of them were bought out of boredom. like i said i like movies, but i love video games. on avs its probably hard to believe but the ps3 owners that i know, the ones who arent into av, still have regular tvs, and dont even care about HD movies use their ps3 for video games. once ff13, mgs4, and the real socom come out, ill drop my netflix back down to the 5.99 one movie a month plan or cancel it altogether for a gamefly account. im just glad the summer drought is coming to an end. the q3/q4 blitz should be underway and i can get back to rotting my brain for 8+ hours a day

would you buy spiderman or transformers?

price cut was their response... didn't work.

So you're saying Toshiba knew this was coming and lowered player prices as a pre-emptive strike?

I'm glad that I can rent anything HD at my Blockbuster....
thats the way it is for me too...sadly it looks like this may change.

Me too. This isn't a death blow and the HD DVD camp definitely could respond, but will they and how is a very good question. They need to keep Universal on their team and away from neutral. Maybe this news will make Ken Graffeo dig in his heals even more. I don't know how stubborn he is. Other places he has said things along the lines of wait until Q4. Maybe he'll dig deeper into the vault and bring us some better stuff than planned.

Well, here is Ken's reaction to this lastest development. From the TV Predictions article:

Blockbuster's decision could be a serious blow to HD DVD in the high-def format war. But one HD DVD backer said Sunday that Blockbuster is acting on limited information.

"I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the promotional group for HD DVD.

So with Sony inking a deal with Wal-Mart to sell LCD's . . .are they next?

Well, here is Ken's reaction to this lastest development. From the TV Predictions article:

Blockbuster's decision could be a serious blow to HD DVD in the high-def format war. But one HD DVD backer said Sunday that Blockbuster is acting on limited information.

"I think trying to make a format decision using such a short time period is really not measuring what the consumer is saying," said Ken Graffeo, co-president of the promotional group for HD DVD. Here is one thing I said previously about that:
As far as Universal complaining about the short period, Ken Graffeo and Universal chose not to have many releases in Q1. They knew it could have consequences. Just like Fox should know now that there could be consequences to their slow to non-existant period.Ken has claimed that the HD DVD releases will be better in Q4, but I'm doubting it based on what I'm seeing. Especially Ratatouille last night, which I think is the best Pixar film yet. Universal needs to get more things out that Blockbuster will regret not being able to rent in these new stores if they want Blockbuster to change this decision.

--Darin

So let me get this straight.

j6p walks into Blockbuster, only sees Blu-ray in the store. Goes to his local B&M store and finds out a Blu-ray player is still way to expensive for him to simply buy so he can rent these movies. So not only does he not buy the $500-$1000 player, but he doesn't rent any Blu-ray movies.

And HOW is this good for Blockbuster again? Cuz I hate to tell you, most people are not running for a BD player simply because of this.

This story is blowing up - EngadgetHD is running it.
I e-mailed them this forum and, predictably, EHD is running it as "the war is over":

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/17/blockbuster-chooses-blu-ray-is-the-war-over/

Before you all blame Ben, it wasn't him who blogged it. :)

The heading is "is the war over"... Thats how missing 1 word can misconstrue a whole statement.

do you know how many stores blocbuster has?
According to Blockbuster they have more than 8,000 stores throughout the Americas, Europe, Asia and Australia. With more than 2,600 stores outside the United States.

So they have around 5,400 stores in the United States.

HD DVD = 250 stores (5%)
Blu-ray = 1,700 stores (31%)

So let me get this straight.

j6p walks into Blockbuster, only sees Blu-ray in the store. Goes to his local B&M store and finds out a Blu-ray player is still way to expensive for him to simply buy so he can rent these movies. So not only does he not buy the $500-$1000 player, but he doesn't rent any Blu-ray movies.

And HOW is this good for Blockbuster again? Cuz I hate to tell you, most people are not running for a BD player simply because of this.Here is one thing we can get straight. Even with the lower prices for HD DVD players for the last year HD DVD didn't manage even 30% of rentals between the formats in Blockbuster's test, according to what they said. This is the kind of thing that could be used by a salesman trying to sell somebody a Blu-ray player and including it as one advantage over an HD DVD player.

--Darin

So you're saying Toshiba knew this was coming and lowered player prices as a pre-emptive strike?

i think toshiba was well aware of sales and rental figures and decided to cut prices in order to bolster them.

Why is their a question mark at the end of this thread title? No fanboy on earth could say that this isn't a blow to HD DVD with a straight face!Well at the time it was originally posted it wasn't known for sure if Blockbuster had actually announced this. At this point though it looks pretty official to me though I think the thread title could be a bit more descriptive along the lines of:
Blockbuster announces that it will soon offer Blu-ray movies in 1,450 of its stores


It was asked a few times to PS3 owners (official playstation forums) if they resort to watching more Blu Ray movies since the gaming selection isn't much of one as of yet, and many of the responses were yes.Well I am a bit curious to know why you look through the official PS3 forums if you don't own a PS3, but leaving that aside a small sample of posters in a thread saying that they have started watching more Blu-ray movies is not the same as knowing what PS3 owners will do in the future. After all once a person starts watching Blu-ray on an HDTV I personally don't think it is likely that someone would go back to DVD. Just my opinion of course.


Whether they'll continue to do so once the library is fuller, is anyones guess, and left to be seen.Exactly, no one knows what the majority of PS3 owners will do in the future and for all we know the percentage of PS3 owners buying Blu-ray movies might even increase in the future.


Indeed. Instead of signing up for a $15/month-or-so rental plan from Netflix, why not dump your $250 (or likely much more, if you were an early adopter) HD DVD player and buy a new $500+ Blu-ray player and stick with Blockbuster? Have I got that right?It was just a suggestion and why exactly would you expect him to dump his HD DVD player?


Ah, if only money weren't a deciding factor in my decisions. You sound rich...will you adopt me?No, but I will give you a bit of free advice. Just because someone suggests something doesn't mean you have to agree with them and you certainly don't have to ridicule them for it. Personally I have had many people, one of which was Amir, suggest to me that I should buy into both HD formats. And note that this was after I bought a PS3 and started buying Blu-ray movies.


How many times can you post your cheerleader crap in the same thread?As many times as he wants to I think. No offense but why exactly does that bother you? If you really don't like this news it would probably just be best to not read this thread since a lot of happy Blu-ray supporters are going to be posting here.

I don't know if this will lead to a loss for HD DVD, but this thread made me think of this picture:

The Last Great Act of Defiance (a mouse flipping off an eagle).
http://thumb2.webshots.net/t/57/557/0/11/51/2791011510032786982dhIUbm_th.jpg

--Darin

I wonder if Blockbuster will carry pretty much all new major releases in all 1450 stores. Many titles haven't sold 5k copies total and that would be 1450 by itself at just one per store.

--Darin

I wonder if Blockbuster will carry pretty much all new major releases in all 1450 stores. Many titles haven't sold 5k copies total and that would be 1450 by itself at just one per store.

--Darin

Good point.

I guess the worst case scenario is that BB buys 1450 extra copies and adds 1450 x (number of new titles) purchases to Blu-rays numbers each week.

I am an avid HD DVD supporter and I can tell you this is not good news at all for the HD DVD camp;

A major player in the video industry has choosen BD. They have not committed 100% yet because as pointed out, it is not going to be at all BB's nationwide.

There is nothing in the HD DVD arsenal that can be used to counter this in the next 30 days and the S300 streets tomorrow. If Sony wanted to they could start their own "buy a player and get 5 free BD's to go with it." Panasonic is already doing this with their latest offerring and no rebate BS - they are in the box with the player and they are good titles - not like alot of the B titles that Toshiba is offerring.

It only takes one announcement like this to get a rallye going and that is what I see happening.

Oh well - only spent $500 for the HD DVD player and the movies I own. And it is a hell of an upconverting DVD player of which I have 350+ DVD's.

Well I am a bit curious to know why you look through the official PS3 forums if you don't own a PS3,

In your attempt to try and discredit me, I'll have you know that I was once a Sony loyalist dead set on a PS3 until I got tired of the constant broken promises and arrogance being displayed with such wonderful remarks such as "people will buy a PS3 even if it has no games".

Nothing like calling me a tool, and expecting me to buy your $600 console. :rolleyes:

Anything else, or do you want to play cop and question me all night? :p

Cmon guys what is all the fuss about Blockbuster not carrying HD-DVD's anymore they haven't been relevant since the late 90's when renting DVD's was all the rage. Since the inception of VOD on Cable and Sat systems BB has been losing business with store closings because of this. I say yay to BB doing this maybe now they can really dig their own grave. Netflix can only benefit from this as more customers will come to them for their HD-DVD needs. BB has been digging their own grave for years especially with the ridiculous late charges which people got fed up with. BB say goodbye to you precious business because you will not be around much longer.

I will quote Mark here,

those who insist on attacking the poster in an effort to get a thread closed may instead find their AVS account is closed

challenge the information in the post and never the poster

Good point.

I guess the worst case scenario is that BB buys 1450 extra copies and adds 1450 x (number of new titles) purchases to Blu-rays numbers each week.

Neither BB or Netflix or Hollywood Video "buy" their DVD's, or HDD's. They work on a revenue sharing program with so much of the rental fee going to the renter and so much for the studio.

In essence they get them for free.

Good point.

I guess the worst case scenario is that BB buys 1450 extra copies and adds 1450 x (number of new titles) purchases to Blu-rays numbers each week.

rental units don't count as sales, bb shares revenues with studios.

There is nothing in the HD DVD arsenal that can be used to counter this in the next 30 days and the S300 streets tomorrow. If Sony wanted to they could start their own "buy a player and get 5 free BD's to go with it." Panasonic is already doing this with their latest offerring and no rebate BS - they are in the box with the player and they are good titles - not like alot of the B titles that Toshiba is offerring.I think that Sony should consider a 5 free rentals at selected Blockbusters with purchase instead. That is, if stores like Best Buy are okay with that.

--Darin

Cmon guys what is all the fuss about Blockbuster not carrying HD-DVD's anymore they haven't been relevant since the late 90's went renting DVD's was all the rage. Since the inception of VOD on Cable and Sat systems BB has been losing business with store closings because of this. I say yay to BB doing this maybe now they can really dig their own grave. Netflix can only benefit from this as more customers will come to them for their HD-DVD needs. BB has been digging their own grave for years especially with the ridiculous late charges which people got fed up with. BB say goodbye to you precious business because you will not be around much longer.

Exactly, I really hate Blockbuster, ever since I went with Netflix I haven't stepped into a BB for over a year. Those late charges are definitely ridiculous and I guess they need to have that in order to keep their profits up. Hopefully this just gives Netflix more business. :cool:

I think that Sony should consider a 5 free rentals at selected Blockbusters with purchase instead. That is, if stores like Best Buy are okay with that.

--Darin


good idea!

Considering the low sales volume that both formats have, I wonder if any predictions at this point would be a bit premature. By the looks of it, this (potential) move by Blockbuster isn't actually taking anything away from HD-DVD. Once we start to see that with either one of the formats, then perhaps we'll be able to make more definitive statements about the outcome of this so-called format war.

Interesting. I honestly didn't expect a major retailer to go exclusive at this point in the game. It's obviously good news for Blu-ray and bad news for HD DVD: an independent retailer with millions on the line found it financially viable to go Blu-ray exclusive based on pilot data (the 250 stores that carry both). You can't even blame Sony for this one.

How much of an effect this has remains to be seen. I think the main effect wont really be sales so much as public perception. They'll see Blu-ray when they rent movies and thus feel like it is the defacto "new" standard. If I were a J6P I pretty sure I wouldn't buy the format I *can't* rent at my local video store.

I'd say that HD DVD could weather this particular storm on it's own with Universal's continued support and WB's favortism, but if any other major retailer goes exclusively Blu that will likely signal the beginning of the end for HD DVD. Too early to say now, though, so I hope fanboys on both sides will keep it in their pants.

I should have included "at the current rate". The majority of people who bought a PS3 are gamers... I don't understand why many here think that their main interest is some BD movies. Many gamers attribute the Blu-Ray movie functionality in the PS3 as not their main interest... but as a bonus. I'd direct you to some links, if they weren't deleted by lock and chain Sony mods.
I have a PS3 and I use it for both gaming and blu-ray. Right now with lack of games I use it more for watching movies. As more games come out, I will continue using it for blu-ray movies or I'll buy a stand alone blu-ray player and use that. So no, when more games come out I will not watch less blu-ray films.

I have a PS3 and I use it for both gaming and blu-ray. Right now with lack of games I use it more for watching movies. As more games come out, I will continue using it for blu-ray movies or I'll buy a stand alone blu-ray player and use that. So no, when more games come out I will not watch less blu-ray films.

Of course, as you should. I did say many and not all. ;)

I don't understand all the fuss. Here in Europe Blockbuster has always carried only Blu-Ray, but many independent rentals carry HD DVDs anyway. If you want to rent HD DVD you can.

How big is the rental market share of Blockbuster in the US? Does anybody have numbers? Is it really so big?

Cmon guys what is all the fuss about Blockbuster not carrying HD-DVD's anymore they haven't been relevant since the late 90's when renting DVD's was all the rage. Since the inception of VOD on Cable and Sat systems BB has been losing business with store closings because of this. I say yay to BB doing this maybe now they can really dig their own grave. Netflix can only benefit from this as more customers will come to them for their HD-DVD needs. BB has been digging their own grave for years especially with the ridiculous late charges which people got fed up with. BB say goodbye to you precious business because you will not be around much longer.

BB has been losing money and market share for a long time. This move won't help them gain it back.

I don't understand all the fuss. Here in Europe Blockbuster has always carried only Blu-Ray, but many independent rentals carry HD DVDs anyway. If you want to rent HD DVD you can.

How big is the rental market share of Blockbuster in the US? Does anybody have numbers? Is it really so big?

In 2006, the total revenue from DVD rental is $7.5 billion versus $16.6 billion for sales. How much of that 7.5 did BB get? unknown.

But rentals are up 32% while sales are flat.

In 2005 sales increased by 300 million while rentals add a billion. This has been going on for the last 3 years, here in the USA

http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm

How big is the rental market share of Blockbuster in the US? Does anybody have numbers? Is it really so big?

Blockbuster is the largest with 5,803 stores with Movie Gallery, who also owns the Hollywood Video chain, second with over 4,700 stores.

Then you should buy a Blu-ray player. It is clearly more convenient for oneself to have the ability to trade in a movie at a local store for another one rather than always mailing it in and waiting.

I haven't been in a B&M video store for years and have been using Netflix. I've been happy with my A1. But I suppose I need to reconsider, now that you've pointed out that it would be more convenient to overpay for a second movie player and have to go get the movies instead of having them delivered to me. I think I speak for all of us when I say "thanks" for helping us realize the error of our ways.

I think it's way too early for any of this stuff, but that's just me - a lowly dual format owner. It's easy enough for BB to change their minds and start carrying both formats.

What happens when Warner starts they TotalHD discs?

Chris

How much of that 7.5 did BB get? unknown.


Thanks. Is there any information about Netflix or others rentals at least?

So let me get this straight.

j6p walks into Blockbuster, only sees Blu-ray in the store. Goes to his local B&M store and finds out a Blu-ray player is still way to expensive for him to simply buy so he can rent these movies. So not only does he not buy the $500-$1000 player, but he doesn't rent any Blu-ray movies.Well said.

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this decision was driven more by limited shelf-space than one based on other factors. Consider this: the bulk of Blockbuster's shelf-space is dedicated to DVDs (as it should be). They also have a sizeable portion dedicated to various video game systems, with the PS3 being one of those. That doesn't leave a lot of free space for high-def DVDs, especially two different formats. Blu-ray becomes the easy choice, then, simply because Blockbuster is already catering to PS3 owners (by way of the PS3 games they rent). I wouldn't be surprised if they positioned the Blu-ray movies near the PS3 games.

I think the PS3 is driving the Blu-ray rental/buy rates for now. With new, AAA PS3 titles all releasing soon (Rainbow Six, Warhawk, Home, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Ratchet, GTAIV, etc) PS3 sales will pickup even more, of course.

In the meantime, while the PS3 holds the fort, so to speak, the player prices will keep falling.

To be fair, in Canada, the BD-P1000 debuted at $1299 CDN. You can now order the BDP-S300 for $599 CDN - so in one year prices have dropped over 50%.

At this rate, it won't be long before $299 and under players are available and the PS3 will keep holding the line in the meantime.

It has long seemed to me that both formats launched too early - HD about 6 months BD about a year. With HD's haste to market, BD's hand was forced even before specs were finalized (1.1 is probably where they would have preferred to start, since the networking strategy (2.0) was meant to be optional.

The loss-leader model of game systems has been utilized to hold the fort while BD is getting to where it wanted to be at launch (production kinks tested, chipsets finished), though I still believe hardware prices have been forced lower faster than they wished. I see 1.1 players come November as the point where the push from BD will truly begin.

ted

Blockbuster is the largest with 5,803 stores with Movie Gallery, who also owns the Hollywood Video chain, second with over 4,700 stores.

5,803 stores from a total of how many? 100,000 rental stores in the US? We need a percentage, stores numbers are not useful (unless you got all of them).

Good job Blockbuster, as a long time member it looks like I will have to switch to Netflix. You don't carry the product I want so you don't get my money :cool:

MichaelHDDVD: No wrong plan of action, more like go out and rent more HD-DVDs from Blockbuster to send a better message. It seems people have been renting more Blu-Rays than HD-DVDs... Hence sparking Blockbusters move.... Who knows, but I bet this War is going to be a ton of small nasty skirmishes over the summer....

tvted: Ironically more and more people are choosing the PS3 as a Blu-Ray player of choice when it comes to movies from what I have been seeing. I mean who cares what hardware your using for playback, as long as the Blu-Ray movies start flying off the shelves that's all that matters. PS3 or not..... It think you are right on on hardware being pushed low to win this war, I just hope when it is won, that they don't jack up the prices again. ;)

Thanks. Is there any information about Netflix or others rentals at least?

Here is an article that discusses their performance of 2006 as far as revenue and new subs and such:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html?q=Netflix

In 2006, the total revenue from DVD rental is $7.5 billion versus $16.6 billion for sales. How much of that 7.5 did BB get? unknown.

But rentals are up 32% while sales are flat.

In 2005 sales increased by 300 million while rentals add a billion. This has been going on for the last 3 years, here in the USA

http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm

Hard to say how much of a market share BB still has. In the US DVD's are rented through all kinds of storefronts as well as Netflix. Even McDonalds rents DVD's.

Revenue in the last quarter was $1.37 billion, but that also includes movie and video game sales


Blockbuster loss widens on declining margins

By William Spain
Last Update: 8:20 AM ET May 2, 2007

CHICAGO (MarketWatch)-- Blockbuster Inc. reported a wider first-quarter loss Wednesday as margins at the video rental chain fell sharply. The company reported a net loss of $46.4 million, or 26 cents a share, vs. a loss of $1.9 million, or 3 cents in the year-ago period. Revenue, meanwhile, came in up 5.4% to $1.47 billion even as the company's gross margin for the first quarter decreased to 51.7% from 56.5%. The average estimate of analysts polled by Thomson Financial
to lose 16 cents a share on revenue of $1.37 billion. Separately, the company said that it has sold its Games Station Limited, a specialty games retailer in the U.K. to The Game Group PLC for about $150 million in cash, most of which will be used to pay down debt.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/blockbuster-loss-widens-declining-margins/story.aspx?guid=%7BF81CF2C1-3A4C-408D-A56C-C1F3DB190C00%7D&siteid=aolpfaolpf1

I am sure Blockbuster won't miss Michael HD DVD's money at all...Change your name to MichaelBlu Ray and I am sure they'll welcome him:D!

It is about studios. Blu Ray has them
It's about mainstream electronics retailers favoring Blu Ray. Best Buy is in Sony's pocket
It's about renting, as the majority of the public prefers $5 to watch a movie rather than $25. Now another piece in the puzzle has been placed as Sony has woed Blockbuster to BD exclusivity.

It's like a chess match and the Blu pieces are coming into an offensive grouping around HD DVD.

This is FANTASTIC News!! I think we will see Bestbuy doing the same thing shortly and other retailers as well. I have seen decreased shelf-space for HD-DVD at my local Bestbuy stores, Circuit City, Wal-Mart and Sears.

Look for a "Big" announcement from the BDA on 6/20/07.

~Josh

at my best buy they are still the same, but my local Circuit citys have been pushing HD-DVD more then bluray

Here is a newer article concerning Netflix first qtr. of 2007 performance

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6434872.html?q=Netflix

Motley Fool gets into BB issues with Total Access, competing with NFLX: http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2007/06/16/a-fool-looks-back.aspx

BB jumps 4.53% on Friday:
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=BBI

Still no HDs at my local BB...

Here is an article that discusses their performance of 2006 as far as revenue and new subs and such:

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html?q=Netflix

Thanks. So we got:

Netflix Total Revenue for the year 2006: $996.7 million

Total Rental Market Revenue for the year 2006: $7.5 billions
(according to http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm)

So we get 13.4% of the Rental Market Share for Netflix, right?

Does anybody have the 2006 revenue numbers for Blockbuster?

If the total market for DVD rental is say $8.5 Billion for 2007. Netflix is projecting they will get $1.26 Billion of it.

So what was BB's total revenue for 2006 and how much are they projecting for 2007? Someome else can look this stuff up.

OK . . . here are some numbers for BB for 2006:

For full year 2006, Blockbuster's revenue was down 3.5% to $5.52 billion. The decrease was attributed to store closings and a 2.1% decrease in worldwide same-store sales. Worldwide same-store sales included the positive impact of $105.5 million in increased revenue from the online rental service.

If the total market for DVD rental is say $8.5 Billion for 2007. Netflix is projecting they will get $1.26 Billion of it.

So what was BB's total revenue for 2006 and how much are they projecting for 2007? Someome else can look this stuff up.

Exactly. We need the market percentage, so we can know how much rental market share HD DVD has really lost.

$1.26 Billion/$8.5 Billion = 14.8% Netflix marketshare. Is the Blockbuster marketshare of the same size?

It was asked a few times to PS3 owners (official playstation forums) if they resort to watching more Blu Ray movies since the gaming selection isn't much of one as of yet, and many of the responses were yes. That is, before people came in and had the thread deleted because it wasn't exactly portraying the PS3 in a positive perspective, which must always happen on that forum for any lengthy discussion to be had.

Whether they'll continue to do so once the library is fuller, is anyones guess, and left to be seen.

You want a little cheese with that whine of yours? When I bought a 360 at launch, I played more xbox games on it than 360 games. I own a ps3 and I play ps3 games and also a large number of ps2 and even ps1 fare. And yes, I watch dvds and bluray movies, too. Just because the ps3 gets some heavy hitters for this fall, doesn't mean, that I won't be watching bluray movies. Its not hard to imagine why your thread got deleted.

Blockbuster's revenue for 2006 was $5.5 BILLION. MOST of the entire rental market.

http://www.hoovers.com/blockbuster/--ID__10218--/free-co-factsheet.xhtml

Bad, bad news for HD-DVD.

Wireless: Four different companies (2 CDMA, 2 GSM) in Toronto.

actually Rogers owns Fido so it is one GSM,
there is also Virgin that I am relatively sure it is CDMA.
Also Telus has 2 networks the iDen (Mike that they bought from Clearnet some years back)and the CDMA

I'd take Blockbuster's support over Walmart any day....HD DVD can have 'em. America rents at Blockbuster and all they'll see is BLu Ray.

I'd take Blockbuster's support over Walmart any day....HD DVD can have 'em. America rents at Blockbuster and all they'll see is BLu Ray.

Agreed, people shop at Walmart cause they're looking for cheap goods, not because they're looking for quality goods. Consumers will start to see HD DVD as a poor man's Blu-ray... which in reality is pretty much the truth. :D

OK . . . here are some numbers for BB for 2006:

For full year 2006, Blockbuster's revenue was down 3.5% to $5.52 billion. The decrease was attributed to store closings and a 2.1% decrease in worldwide same-store sales. Worldwide same-store sales included the positive impact of $105.5 million in increased revenue from the online rental service.

Ok, thanks! We have it:

Netflix Total Revenue for the year 2006: $996.7 million
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html)

Blockbuster Total Revenue for the year 2006: $5.52 billion
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6419949.html)

Total Rental Market Revenue for the year 2006: $7.5 billions
(according to http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm)

So we get:

13.4% for Netflix
73.6% for Blockbuster

So Blockbuster got 73.6% of the US Rental Marketshare? Is it true?

This is bad news for HD DVD. :(

UPDATE: the above numbers are wrong. The actual rental revenue for Blockbuster in the US in 2006 is roughly $2.2B (including videogames rental). So the marketshare for BB is less than 29%. Thanks to Numanoid101 for the clarification!
You can found his post here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10816327&&#post10816327

http://www.ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/preleaseindex.html

http://www.blockbuster.com/corporate/newReleases

:confused:

And how important is HD DVD and BD to Netflix?

They are a pimple on DVD's A$$ . . . . . . . 1% of their business

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/28/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-only-account-for-1-of-netflixs-shipments/

And how important id HD DVD and BD to Netflix?

They are a pimple on DVD's A$$ . . . . . . . 1% of their business

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/03/28/hd-dvd-and-blu-ray-only-account-for-1-of-netflixs-shipments/

What's your point? The two HD formats have got to start somewhere. DVD started off as a zit on VHS's ass and guess what? ;)

What's your point? The two HD formats have got to start somewhere. DVD started off as a zit on VHS's ass and guess what? ;)

Does not pertain . . . .

DVD over VHS was a revolutionary change.

HDD over DVD is an evolutionary change

Big difference!

hehe

Actually, it's a lot better than that...

TV: Multiple digital satellite companies, a wireless company (Look) and of course, the cable company (whoever owns the lines in your area - for Toronto it's Rogers).

Wireless: Four different companies (2 CDMA, 2 GSM) in Toronto.

Healthcare: Yep, government monopoly and damn proud of it. :)

Wireless: 2 companies: Bell (Telus rents cell lines from Bell) and Rogers (Fido owned by Rogers)

TV: Look have long been bought by Rogers.

Ok, thanks! We have it:

Netflix Total Revenue for the year 2006: $996.7 million
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6409885.html)

Blockbuster Total Revenue for the year 2006: $5.52 billion
(source: http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6419949.html)

Total Rental Market Revenue for the year 2006: $7.5 billions
(according to http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm)

So we get:

13.4% for Netflix
73.6% for Blockbuster

So Blockbuster got 73.6% of the US Rental Marketshare? Is it true?

This is bad news for HD DVD. :(

If those figures are correct this is worse news for HD DVD than I thought.

Does not pertain . . . .

DVD over VHS was a revolutionary change.

HDD over DVD is an evolutionary change

Big difference!

And how do BD/HD DVD sales compare with DVD in it's first year? Me thinks BD/HD DVD have done better. Have any evidence to the contrary?

Man, Bill Hunt is going to have an orgasm typing an editorial that will be up on his website anytime now declaring the high-def war for Blu-ray... again! What a lousy way to start the weekend for HD-DVD supporters! :(

Here is one thing we can get straight. Even with the lower prices for HD DVD players for the last year HD DVD didn't manage even 30% of rentals between the formats in Blockbuster's test, according to what they said. This is the kind of thing that could be used by a salesman trying to sell somebody a Blu-ray player and including it as one advantage over an HD DVD player.

--Darin


I don't know about the rest of the populous. Although I have both formats I tend to buy HD DVD titles more than BD. On the other hand, I tend to rent BD movies than HD DVD. For me it's because HD DVD have more titles I want to watch over and over again whereas BD has lots of big titles that I'd like to watch but not over and over.

And how do BD/HD DVD sales compare with DVD in it's first year? Me thinks BD/HD DVD have done better... unless you've got evidence to the contrary hidden in your peace pipe.

You can compare DVD to HDD all you want but it is you who are smoking that peace pipe. Apples to oranges

Ask ANYONE what they paid for their first DVD player and then ask them what they paid for their first HDD player.

And keep in mind that DVD was a purchase only format for almost 2 years while HDD became a rental and a purchase format almost overnight. Choice brings more people into a marketplace.

Man, Bill Hunt is going to have an orgasm typing an editorial that will be up on his website anytime now. What a lousy way to start the weekend for HD-DVD supporters! :(

Not so shiny news, particularly on Dad's day, innit? :p

Cheer up daddy'o !! As they say, you make your own destiny. HD-DVD made its own in the way it ran its campaign. Pick up a PS3, order some movies on Netflix, and chillax !!

Life is too short to worry on things you can't control.

If those figures are correct this is worse news for HD DVD than I thought.

Yeah. But no decision is written in stone. Maybe when low cost Chinese HD DVD players will start to fill the store shelves, Blockbuster will reconsider this decision.

We are still early in the format war. Those decisions can change overnight.

Topic title edited, topic stuck.

Ask ANYONE what they paid for their first DVD player and then ask them what they paid for their first HDD player.


I paid approximately the same price for 1st gen Panasonic DVD player and 1st gen Toshiba HD DVD player. Both bought during the first week of their introduction. ;)

fro another forum I posted the story on:


I'm actually surprised the OP was able to find that story anywhere online. It's been embargoed by AP until 12:01 a.m. Eastern Monday.

The reason nothing could be found on the Blockbuster or AP press release sites is because a press release hasn't been issued yet. (The story says the announcement isn't coming until Monday.)

Topic title edited, topic stuck.

For a second, I thought you were saying that the "topic suck" :D

What BB has announced today IS the same thing they did when they decided to get into the DVD rental business. Small test - large rollout - all stores

I paid approximately the same price for 1st gen Panasonic DVD player and 1st gen Toshiba HD DVD player. Both bought during the first week of their introduction. ;)

Well i waited a few more months than you did for HD DVD:

DVD - $800 for a Toshiba Player - 1st week intro'd

HD DVD $325 with 3 free movies - 1/07

i've never seen so many people complain before in my life. good lord. so you picked what looks like the wrong side, in hd dvd.....

......more support. and who wouldn't want a larger disk anyways? i don't care which side is which..but 50gb > 30gb. it was a simple pick for me.

is this the end of hd dvd? not even close. do i only rent and buy bluray because my ps3 has no games to play? no. will that change when there actually are games to play? no...why would it?

i'm glad somebody is finally picking a side. one of the formats needs to die, and i'd rather it was hd dvd, it was their demise to me when they only made them with 30gb. but thats me, storage is important to me.

and honestly, to the very few of you who are going to switch to netflix..do you honestly think blockbuster gives a ****? seriously people..look at the big picture here...

In 2006, the total revenue from DVD rental is $7.5 billion versus $16.6 billion for sales. How much of that 7.5 did BB get? unknown.

But rentals are up 32% while sales are flat.

In 2005 sales increased by 300 million while rentals add a billion. This has been going on for the last 3 years, here in the USA

http://www.dvdinformation.com/News/press/CES010807.htm

but the online services are included in that arent they.... i would suspect any increase is from the online rental services which has been and will continue to stock both hd-dvd and bluray.

not saying its not a blow to toshiba but i think this is not going to end anything unless netflix and blockbuster online both go bluray only. then it has some significance.

Really the next question is:








How long now until Universal Studios announces support for Blu-ray?

Can't imagine them deciding that they don't want to participate in 75% of the USA rental market. :p

does anyone know what the plan is for the stores now offering HD DVD? is it full support or just not getting rid of it?

i.e.

1) "let's keep them fully stocked and if HD DVD does better then we can think of adding it again in some othe markets"

2) " we have the disks so might as well still offer them, but nothing new"

3) " we will tread lightly in those stores with HD DVD stores and might pick up some new titles that could be popular, but we are only lightly supporting a market that is not 0 for now"


the relevence could be very different depending on what exactly it is.

Anyone want to bet that Toshiba tomorrow,announces that they have permantely lowered the HD A2 MSRP to $299 tomorrow. I believe the sale ends tonite at midnight. Maybe up it from 5 free to 7 free.

IMO it just will not be enough to counter this development. Then it really does look like a fire sale.

Get ready for more! Beatboy posted that on 6/20/07 the BDA will be making a 1 year anniversary announcement. Blockbuster news is just step 1.. More to come im sure!

You want a little cheese with that whine of yours? When I bought a 360 at launch, I played more xbox games on it than 360 games. I own a ps3 and I play ps3 games and also a large number of ps2 and even ps1 fare. And yes, I watch dvds and bluray movies, too. Just because the ps3 gets some heavy hitters for this fall, doesn't mean, that I won't be watching bluray movies. Its not hard to imagine why your thread got deleted.

It wasn't my thread. It got deleted because the mods there breed rabid fanboys by deleting any non pro-sony thread. I'm sure you know that...

Oh and thanks for taking my post out of context, when I specifically mentioned that gamers would still use the PS3 for movies.

Maybe you just wanted to post for the sake of doing so.

Well I haven't rented anything from Blockbuster in over 4 years and I won't start no matter what format they carry. I got tired of them trying to screw me every time I returned a DVD and they said it was late. In fact they had one as a week late one time.
This may be good news for Blu-ray but don't get too excited. Neither format is selling well enough yet to be anything more than a niche market.

and honestly, to the very few of you who are going to switch to netflix..do you honestly think blockbuster gives a ****? seriously people..look at the big picture here...

Hmmm...companies are not altruistic and BB's B&M business model is obviously not the future. In fact, they are losing money. So how does this decision improve their business? It certainly gets ink but it appears to me there must be a financial incentive somewhere. Given the low risk of not carrying one of the HD formats the choice would be easy if they receive capital to change that model...

What BB has announced today IS the same thing they did when they decided to get into the DVD rental business. Small test - large rollout - all stores

Also BB only stocked FS only (at least in Canada) for the first year(?) of them having DVDs.

Considering the low sales volume that both formats have, I wonder if any predictions at this point would be a bit premature. By the looks of it, this (potential) move by Blockbuster isn't actually taking anything away from HD-DVD. Once we start to see that with either one of the formats, then perhaps we'll be able to make more definitive statements about the outcome of this so-called format war.

because the person that rents and rents from BB will go there when getting his DVDS and will see BDs but no HD DVDs when he goes to the store because he is ready to upgrade he will ask for BD because that is what his rental place is carrying. He won’t give a sh!t for HD DVD because he won’t be able to rent them there.

It won't affect someone that wasted their money on HD DVD already (well it might) but it will affect new buyers. And let’s face it with 250k-300k HD DVD players sold so far it is conning new people into buying into it that is most important.

Well i waited a few more months than you did for HD DVD:

DVD - $800 for a Toshiba Player - 1st week intro'd

HD DVD $325 with 3 free movies - 1/07


Just curious, why is it so expensive? My Panasonic DVD-A300 was only about US$500. :confused: Did the Toshiba cost that much more?

HD DVD only supporter here. Not crying about this news. I actually think this is awesome.

If this moves us to a single format, I am all for it.

Can't wait to pick up my Blu Ray player.

Blu-ray players still need to drop to a price point where more than just enthusiasts about next gen formats will purchase them.

Does not pertain . . . .

DVD over VHS was a revolutionary change.

HDD over DVD is an evolutionary change

Big difference!
so what you are saying is that you would rather have no hd format instead of one hd format. Seems very myopic and selfish if you ask me.

HD DVD only supporter here. Not crying about this news. I actually think this is awesome.

If this moves us to a single format, I am all for it.

Can't wait to pick up my Blu Ray player.

Ditto. Whatever gets us closer to ending this stupid war.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I see this as good news for HD DVD.

If it looks like BD will win this war Universal will release every big title they have. Why wouldn't they. They will make their money and then release on BD.
If BD wins and HD DVD becomes a niche market I can see the other movie studios release movies for HD DVD for some extra revenue.

You don't need billions of people to support your favorite format as long as movies are released and you can enjoy them.
People have done that with LD and have been relatively happy, you might have to pay more probably.
I don't care who wins this war. I think movies will be released on the other format for quite some time. There is always money to be made.

I think we will see some great last measures from both camps=great for the consumer.
just my opinion

You guys that are saying this makes no real difference think about this.
All the people I know have a DVD player & watch movies all the time.
80% of those rent.
They will go to BB to pick up a movie for them & the kids on the weekend & see that BB now has Blu-Ray,
This Xmas there will be Blu-Ray players in the $200-$300 range.
Those with HDTV's will remember that the BB has Blu-Ray movies when Xmas shopping starts & will buy one of the players whos movies can be rented at BB.

People at this forum are not like the masses, we are early adopters & will buy our movie collections, for most people they will buy the Blu-Ray player because the corner store has the movies they can rent.

Toshiba has no one to blame but themselves, the Blu-Ray group tried to make a deal with them to have one format but Toshiba was greedy & wanted all the royalties to themselves.
Sony learned a bunch from Betamax & was determined to not let that happen again.

The last straw will be Universal going format neutral, then it's lights out!

Circuit City has decreased its HD DVD rack in Santa Monica. It's now 2 to 1 rack in favor of Blu-ray.

This is bad news for HD DVD and as an HD DVD advocate that pains me. Still I think this fits with what we know about the demographics of the two competing HDM formats.

It even fits with my future plans. I hope to go format neutral when full-spec dual format players are available south of $500. The main reason for me doing this will be for rentals. I started with HD DVD for cost and content reasons, but on the content side it has always been for movies I plan to own. In looking at my DVD library I realized that about 70% of the catalog titles I owned were Universal releases so HD DVD was a no brainer. I don’t rent many movies to begin with and I have yet to rent an HD DVD, but if I had a dual format player I probably would have rented a few BDs. I’m not going to buy Night at The Museum or Ghost Rider, but I might rent them.

For me it is simply the nature of the exclusive studios and what they release. I don’t own many Fox or Columbia films and the Disney films I own are rarely watched by the kids these days because at ages 11 and 13 they don’t have much interest in those anymore. Assuming both formats survive I see myself five years from now as format neutral with a library that is 70% HD DVD and 30% BD, but with a rental history that is closer to 60% or 70% BD.

Circuit City has decreased its HD DVD rack in Santa Monica. It's now 2 to 1 rack in favor of Blu-ray.


Same thing at my Best Buy in the Palisades Mall at Nanuet, NY.

j6p walks into Blockbuster, only sees Blu-ray in the store. Goes to his local B&M store and finds out a Blu-ray player is still way to expensive for him to simply buy so he can rent these movies. So not only does he not buy the $500-$1000 player, but he doesn't rent any Blu-ray movies.

And HOW is this good for Blockbuster again? Cuz I hate to tell you, most people are not running for a BD player simply because of this.

well Mike

1) for every few that fit your scenario one will buy.
poorer Joe: "still can't afford it"
richer John: "I can, let's go for it"

2) there are already over 1M PS3s now, for many, it will be easier to rent BD
Joe :"Cool I cantry the BD movie now"

3) some might even change to BB instead of the store the rental place they use nowthat has only DVD.
John: "Joe come over, we can play Y on the PS3 and then watch X on BD"
Joe: "when did you get X"
John: "Rented it"
Joe: "Ma, you aare lucky, maybe I should change places"

4) it makes it harder for the store to sell HD DVD players
Joe: "still can't afford it"
Salesman: "well we have the HD DVD, it is cheaper"
Joe: "does it play Blu ray?"
Salesman: "no, it is HD DVD, but it is dirt cheap because Toshiba is so desperate that it is at a cheaper fire sale price"
Joe: "but BB does not rent HD DVD"
Salesman: "But you can buy movies"
Joe: "I own 5 DVDs, why would I pay 30$ to buy a movie I only want to watch once. I rent 1 movie a week at a 25$ difference in one month that is a 100$ difference."

Circuit City has decreased its HD DVD rack in Santa Monica. It's now 2 to 1 rack in favor of Blu-ray.

I was at the Best Buy in Downers Grove (A western suburb of Chicago) this weekend and saw 5 racks of Blu-Ray to 2 racks of HD-DVD.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I see this as good news for HD DVD.



You can call it flaming if you want, but anytime a major renter, retailer, etc stops carrying a format, it is not good for that format.

Just curious, why is it so expensive? My Panasonic DVD-A300 was only about US$500. :confused: Did the Toshiba cost that much more?

As I had a 144" 16x9 Stewart Screen With a Zenith PRO900X PJ, I bought the top of line player because i knew LD was dead.

I know it's not going to happen but it would be funny if Universal said to BB that they won't get any more Universal titles until they stock HD DVD.

Crazy but .......?

I'm gonna say it again...

With Weinstein having a good relationship with Blockbuster as well as "Hard Boiled" coming to blu-ray, I foresee an announcement soon about them going neutral. Here comes "Grindhouse!"

This story is blowing up - EngadgetHD is running it.
I e-mailed them this forum and, predictably, EHD is running it as "the war is over":

http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/06/17/blockbuster-chooses-blu-ray-is-the-war-over/

Before you all blame Ben, it wasn't him who blogged it. :)

engadget has been known to bash ps3 all the time..perhaps this time theyve got it right

would you buy spiderman or transformers?

buy them? im not sure. but id def watch them in the movie theater. i used to love watching the transformers cartoons and was obsessed with the spiderman series on fox saturday mornings. i remember one christmas i got the transformer set and i was the happiest 8 or 9 year old in the wolrd (back in the late 80's i think). ive seens spidey 1-3 (3 was eh at best) and cant wait to see transformers july 4. the only way id buy it is if i missed it in the movie theaters and i cant find it to rent. i must admit i caught up in the "buy hype" from reading these boards too much but considering i havent watched many of my movies more than once, i pretty much stopped buying flicks.

the problem with the br fanboys on this site is some of them really believe the people that has ps3's really give a flying **** about blu-ray. they really dont. i guess the best example is that theres 10+ million 360 owners and last i heard was there was maybe 100k addons sold. even doubling the percentages for the ps3 since the drive is builtin shows gamers really arent interested in HD movies all that much. there's a market yeah, but not a necessarily big one.

but to stay on topic, for non videophiles, bb going br only is a good thing. nowhere in my area can i rent HD movies, thats why i got netflix. going to a store is a lot more convenient than shipping back and forth via netflix.

A number of unnecessary posts have been deleted. At some point, suspensions will occur.

No matter how I spin it >>> BAD NEWS for HD DVD

It will be interesting to see how large the section will be for the HD movies and how much commitment Blockbuster will give to it.

Oh well, if it all falls out and I wind up with Blu-Ray, then I sure hope they get these prices down on some players that are worth a crap.

Exactly. We need the market percentage,

FrancescoP: not at all. The problem is that unless you know what the rest is doing it won't give you anything.

Let's go with some extreme examples. Let’s say BB has 10% of the market. Now let’s do two examples

a) the other 90% is DVD only - BD has 100% of the HDOM rental market
b) the other 90% dual – BD has 100% and HD DVD 90%
c) the other 90% are HD DVD – BD has 10% HD DVD has 90%

you see how knowing BBs DVD market share does not help?

[QUOTE]
Obviously this would hurt Universal more than it would Blockbuster.



I agree with you but it would be one hell of a move don't you think. People going to BB and no Universal titles.

Anyone want to bet that Toshiba tomorrow,announces that they have permantely lowered the HD A2 MSRP to $299 tomorrow. I believe the sale ends tonite at midnight. Maybe up it from 5 free to 7 free.I think they probably will make it permanent, but I checked around at stores today and looks like it was off already. Costco was now $349 for the A2, Circuit City was $399 and Best Buy was on sale for $349 (with $399 regular price). I'm not sure why Amazon prices were still low last time I checked (this morning).

--Darin

Wireless: 2 companies: Bell (Telus rents cell lines from Bell)

no, Telus has their own towers. Though Bell and Telus do have a roaming agreement. And a few years ago it was free roaming, not sure any more.

I'm gonna say it again...

With Weinstein having a good relationship with Blockbuster as well as "Hard Boiled" coming to blu-ray, I foresee an announcement soon about them going neutral. Here comes "Grindhouse!"

I'll take Slevin and Clerks 2 but Grindhouse was the worst movie ever made byfar hands down no contest. Not only was it bad and boring but it was so long and it felt like it lasted for 2 days.

P.S. I hated that movie.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this but I see this as good news for HD DVD.

If it looks like BD will win this war Universal will release every big title they have. Why wouldn't they. They will make their money and then release on BD.
If BD wins and HD DVD becomes a niche market I can see the other movie studios release movies for HD DVD for some extra revenue.Not a flame, but smaller extra revenue is not the way to get other studios to support your format. Larger extra revenue is. Put another way, the Blu-ray exclusive studios are more likely to support HD DVD if it is winning than if it is getting trounced.

--Darin

I'll take Slevin and Clerks 2 but Grindhouse was the worst movie ever made byfar hands down no contest. Not only was it bad and boring but it was so long and it felt like it lasted for 2 days.

P.S. I hated that movie.

so did you like it or not?

no, Telus has their own towers. Though Bell and Telus do have a roaming agreement. And a few years ago it was free roaming, not sure any more.

You are correct. I confused the Telus + Clearnet merger.

so did you like it or not?

I think he likes it :p

And how do BD/HD DVD sales compare with DVD in it's first year? Me thinks BD/HD DVD have done better. Have any evidence to the contrary?

Yeah. The pool of possible owners is way higher. When DVD was introduced the number of possible buyers was nowhere what it is today.

Just take a look at the number of exclusive titles on HD DVD vs. Blu-ray. Blu-ray has 4x more than HD DVD for films released this year, and all but about a half-dozen of the titles are available on Blu-ray - less than half are going to be out on HD DVD. Explains a lot behind Blockbuster's decision.

Toshiba has no one to blame but themselves, the Blu-Ray group tried to make a deal with them to have one format but Toshiba was greedy & wanted all the royalties to themselves.
Sony learned a bunch from Betamax & was determined to not let that happen again.!


Well put, people don't realize that this format war could have been sooner than now.. Sony/Philips went to Toshiba and said they had a video disc format they wanted to run by them Toshiba said well we have been working on DVD.. Toshiba said are you in so Philips and Sony said yes and hence we been both sitting on both sides of the fence for many years. Well when Sony/Philips went to Toshiba and said we are working on a new High Def format Toshiba didn't say much and came up with there own that they have been working on... Well when Sony is said to be the greedy bastards I laugh, Toshiba been getting the royalties for many years now, so I can't blame Sony for wanting to play hardball. And as far as the Betamax thing being used against Sony, another laughable statement considering all the format issue with Sony is from cases when they didn't have any support. Sorry let me put down my glass of Kook Aid.... I do own a HD-DVD player....... :)

Just take a look at the number of exclusive titles on HD DVD vs. Blu-ray. Blu-ray has 4x more than HD DVD for films released this year, and all but about a half-dozen of the titles are available on Blu-ray - less than half are going to be out on HD DVD. Explains a lot behind Blockbuster's decision.


Have you seen the summer exclusive release list? It's 4:1 in favor of HD DVD. Universal is kicking the crap out of all the other studios putting out titles.

Too bad they won't be in my BB store. I hope the ramp up their rentals on-line in HD DVD.

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix. :)

You can read into this any way you want:

6/18/07 - Sony S300 streets
6/18/07 - Panasonic BD player with free BD's in box* streets
6/18/07 - AP "officially" releases BB article

6/20/07 - 1 year anniversary for BD

*Pirates of the Caribbean, Curse of the Black Pearl, Pirates of the Caribbean Dead Man's Chest, Transporter, Fantastic Four and Crash.

The mis-rent thing is funny to me. Is the average consumer that dumb?

But I do believe I'd rather download HD movies off of xbox marketplace than rent blu-ray. You're not supposed to feed the monkey that throws poo.

This is great news about Blockbuster B&M! Being able to turn in a Blu-Ray rental in store and picking up another Blu-Ray on the spot while they send me another in the mail is going to be sweet. Kudos to you Blockbuster... Fo Show!!

I have no problem backing BD either, if in fact it is crowned the champion by early next year.

I do have a question for everyone cheering this though. Blockbuster is backing BD in their rollout because it is outrenting HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin.

And everyone is cheering and saying how logical and smart this is.

So, what if Blockbuster said that since Xbox 360 rentals are out-renting PS3 rentals by a 7-1 margin that they are no longer going to rent PS3 games?

Would you guys still think this was a great logical choice and "good" for consumers?

I have no problem backing BD either, if in fact it is crowned the champion by early next year.

I do have a question for everyone cheering this though. Blockbuster is backing BD in their rollout because it is outrenting HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin.

And everyone is cheering and saying how logical and smart this is.

So, what if Blockbuster said that since Xbox 360 rentals are out-renting PS3 rentals by a 7-1 margin that they are no longer going to rent PS3 games?

Would you guys still think this was a great logical choice and "good" for consumers?

This is nothing more than the game . . . "so what if"

Does not apply.

Especially as the hardware mix is about 7 to 1 in BD's favor

Here are the top titles so far this year:

1 Spider-Man 3 (Blu-ray)
Sony
$330,016,000
2 Shrek the Third (Blu-ray)
P/DW
$297,249,000
3 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
(Blu-ray) BV
$273,757,000
4 300 (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$210,086,967
5 Wild Hogs (Blu-ray)
BV
$165,285,901
6 Blades of Glory (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
P/DW
$117,187,000
7 Ghost Rider (Blu-ray)
Sony
$115,802,596
8 Meet the Robinsons (Blu-ray)
BV
$96,224,551
9 Norbit (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
P/DW
$95,360,247
10 Knocked Up (HD DVD)
Uni.
$90,482,000
11 Bridge to Terabithia (Blu-ray)
BV
$82,087,221
12 Disturbia (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
P/DW
$78,288,000
13 Ocean's Thirteen (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$69,810,000
14 Stomp the Yard (Blu-ray)
SGem
$61,356,221
15 Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
(Blu-ray) Fox
$57,400,000
16 TMNT (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$54,099,746
17 Music and Lyrics (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$50,572,589
18 Are We Done Yet? (Blu-ray)
SonR
$48,968,665
19 Premonition (Blu-ray)
Sony
$47,852,604
20 Shooter (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
Par.
$47,003,581
21 Because I Said So (HD DVD)
Uni.
$42,674,040
22 Epic Movie (Blu-ray)
Fox
$39,739,367
23 Fracture (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
NL
$38,558,074
24 Freedom Writers (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
Par.
$36,605,602
25 Smokin' Aces (HD DVD)
Uni.
$35,662,731
26 The Messengers (Blu-ray)
SGem
$35,374,833
27 The Number 23 (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
NL
$35,193,167
28 Surf's Up (Blu-ray)
Sony
$34,671,000
29 Zodiac (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
Par.
$33,080,083
30 Breach (HD DVD)
Uni.
$33,000,880
31 Tyler Perry's Daddy's Little Girls (Blu-ray)
LGF
$31,366,978
32 28 Weeks Later (Blu-ray)
FoxA
$27,839,144
33 Hannibal Rising (Blu-ray)
MGM/W
$27,669,725
34 The Reaping (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$25,126,214
35 Grindhouse (HD DVD)
W/Dim.
$25,030,000

I have no idea to what extent this will affect the format war. Haven't rented since the VHS days and don't even know where the nearest Blockbuster is.

Still, I expect it will have some impact.

I have no problem backing BD either, if in fact it is crowned the champion by early next year.

I do have a question for everyone cheering this though. Blockbuster is backing BD in their rollout because it is outrenting HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin.

And everyone is cheering and saying how logical and smart this is.

So, what if Blockbuster said that since Xbox 360 rentals are out-renting PS3 rentals by a 7-1 margin that they are no longer going to rent PS3 games?

Would you guys still think this was a great logical choice and "good" for consumers?

Excellent point. especially since your estimates are atleast that or maybe even moreso (360 to ps3 game rentals). I agree with you 100%. Why aren't they taking away PS3 games? I think if they did, it would be done much more quietly than a gigantic AP announcement like this. (By contrast, the 360/PS3 race is much more lopsided than this HD format war)

Makes me wonder about earlier posts suggesting it's all just Sony posturing itself; offering a ton of money to Blockbuster to do this. complete with a big "coming out" party. It really doesn't affect me at all since I haven't been in a blockbuster for years; but I do agree with everyone saying it's BAD for HD DVD since the dimwit general public will only see Blu-Ray now as the only HD format offered.

Bottom Line: Choice is a good thing. Shame on BB for taking that away from its customers.

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix. :)

I think it's important for us to do this. Not to defend HD DVD, but to defend the choice of format that still exists.

Makes me wonder about earlier posts suggesting it's all just Sony posturing itself; offering a ton of money to Blockbuster to do this. complete with a big "coming out" party. It really doesn't affect me at all since I haven't been in a blockbuster for years; but I do agree with everyone saying it's BAD for HD DVD since the dimwit general public will only see Blu-Ray now as the only HD format offered.

Bottom Line: Choice is a good thing. Shame on BB for taking that away from its customers.

As an HD DVD supporter - and more of a realist than you are it seems.

BB needs money as it's stock is down.

The masses don't want 2 HD video formats.

Shame on BB for cutting a deal that may prove out ot be an excellent decision in the future - like carrying DVD's in their stores for rental.

Oh . . and that "ton of money" is nothing more than an "enriched" revenue sharing program with the BDA studios.

The difference is a format battle isn't good for video retailers, so the sooner its over the better for them. If Blockbuster is a catalyst, and to its investors looks like an industry leader - stepping up ahead of all others - its a win for them. Watch their share price tomorrow and see if it moves on this news.

In your attempt to try and discredit me,
...All I said was that I was curious about why someone who doesn't own a PS3 would be reading threads at the official PS3 forum. I didn't mean to ruffle your feathers and as a PS3 owner I was simply curious about that.


Interesting. I honestly didn't expect a major retailer to go exclusive at this point in the game. It's obviously good news for Blu-ray and bad news for HD DVD: an independent retailer with millions on the line found it financially viable to go Blu-ray exclusive based on pilot data (the 250 stores that carry both). You can't even blame Sony for this one.Trust me there will be people who will try to find a reason to blame Sony for this, in my experience most anti-Blu-ray posters hate Sony, but from what I can see it is simple economics. Blockbuster had more people renting Blu-ray movies and because of that they decided to stock Blu-ray movies in more of their stores. Obviously some will not like that logical explanation and as such will eventually convince themselves that there was more to it. In other words here is looking forward to conspiracy theories explaining a completely understandable decision.


BB has been losing money and market share for a long time. This move won't help them gain it back.Though Blockbuster has lost some market share to Netflix, and other online rental stores, they are still by far the largest company in the rental business. Personally I think the fact that they are going to offer Blu-ray rentals may even help them.


What happens when Warner starts they TotalHD discs?The end of the world of course ;). Seriously who knows when, or even if, Warner will actually attempt their TotalHD plan since we haven't heard anything about it for months.

The difference is a format battle isn't good for video retailers, so the sooner its over the better for them. If Blockbuster is a catalyst, and to its investors looks like an industry leader - stepping up ahead of all others - its a win for them. Watch their share price tomorrow and see if it moves on this news.


Yep, the only good thing is to have ONE format that people can get behind. People have had enough time to make their choice and now it's time to head in one unified direction, so I'm glad for this development. The studios, CE manufacturers and, looking at sales ratios, consumers have made their choice, now it's time for the retailers to do so as well.

HD DVD only supporter here. Not crying about this news. I actually think this is awesome.

If this moves us to a single format, I am all for it.

Can't wait to pick up my Blu Ray player.Double Ditto. I've been pro-HD DVD since its inception, I own the A1, the XA2 and about 50 HD DVD titles. However, I'd also become violently nauseous and weary regarding the format war in general since this past January.

I've always hated how anti-"what the consumer wants/deserves" Sony and its partners in the war have been (especially in recent years) but, IMO, this war has tested one's "early adopter mettle" like no other bleeding edge product I've ever invested in.

With the war, etc on - HD media in general was starting to look like it would end up about half as successful as laser disc - at best.

So, if "early and rash" announcements like these and "dirty tactics" like the PS3 trojan horse are what forces the public to take HD media on as a true mainstream product then I say: GOD BLESS, SONY!

I'm a Sony hater but if this and the other s*** they end up doing means that I'll be able to buy the Infernal Affairs trilogy, the Cowboy Bebop series, Futurama and god only knows what other amount of goodness that will fit in the space of a BD-50 with a VC-1 codec - then I say bring it on and let all else be damned.

Yep, the only good thing is to have ONE format that people can get behind. People have had enough time to make their choice and now it's time to head in one unified direction, so I'm glad for this development. The studios, CE manufacturers and, looking at sales ratios, consumers have made their choice, now it's time for the retailers to do so as well.

i think most retailers would like to have a single format for xmas.

As an HD DVD supporter - and more of a realist than you are it seems.

BB needs money as it's stock is down.

The masses don't want 2 HD video formats.

Shame on BB for cutting a deal that may prove out ot be an excellent decision in the future - like carrying DVD's in their stores for rental.

Oh . . and that "ton of money" is nothing more than an "enriched" revenue sharing program with the BDA studios.

This deal likely involves more than just BlockBuster, though. "Controlling interests." All I'm saying. Also, remember, PS3 is also about games. Dig back far enough, you'll see what I mean. Or maybe it's time for me to get fitted for that tinfoil hat, one or the other. :p

Double Ditto. I've been pro-HD DVD since its inception, I own the A1, the XA2 and about 50 HD DVD titles. However, I'd also become violently nauseous and weary regarding the format war in general since this past January.

I've always hated how anti-"what the consumer wants/deserves" Sony and its partners in the war have been (especially in recent years) but, IMO, this war has tested one's "early adopter mettle" like no other bleeding edge product I've ever invested in.

With the war, etc on - HD media in general was starting to look like it would end up about half as successful as laser disc - at best.

So, if "early and rash" announcements like these and "dirty tactics" like the PS3 trojan horse are what forces the public to take HD media on as a true mainstream product then I say: GOD BLESS, SONY!

I'm a Sony hater but if this and the other s*** they end up doing means that I'll be able to buy the Infernal Affairs trilogy, the Cowboy Bebop series, Futurama and god only knows what other amount of goodness that will fit in the space of a BD-50 with a VC-1 codec - then I say bring it on and let all else be damned.

I am shocked to see so many of HD-DVD's most passionate supporters such as Amiable-Akuma share a similar view-point as me, the sooner this format war is over the better it will be for over-all HD adoption. I applaud you for you updated view on this war :)

~Josh

Wow. Huge news. I must admit that I am slightly surprised by this. Although it is obvious that retailers would rather not carry two competing formats, I thought BB would still do it in order to give the customers more choice. What this tells me is that BB has done their research and concluded that it doesn't make good business sense to offer HD-DVD titles for rent.

Here are the top titles so far this year:

1 Spider-Man 3 (Blu-ray)
Sony
$330,016,000
2 Shrek the Third (Blu-ray)
P/DW
$297,249,000
3 Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End
(Blu-ray) BV
$273,757,000
4 300 (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$210,086,967
5 Wild Hogs (Blu-ray)
BV
$165,285,901
6 Blades of Glory (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
P/DW
$117,187,000
7 Ghost Rider (Blu-ray)
Sony
$115,802,596
8 Meet the Robinsons (Blu-ray)
BV
$96,224,551
9 Norbit (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
P/DW
$95,360,247
10 Knocked Up (HD DVD)
Uni.
$90,482,000
11 Bridge to Terabithia (Blu-ray)
BV
$82,087,221
12 Disturbia (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
P/DW
$78,288,000
13 Ocean's Thirteen (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$69,810,000
14 Stomp the Yard (Blu-ray)
SGem
$61,356,221
15 Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer
(Blu-ray) Fox
$57,400,000
16 TMNT (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$54,099,746
17 Music and Lyrics (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$50,572,589
18 Are We Done Yet? (Blu-ray)
SonR
$48,968,665
19 Premonition (Blu-ray)
Sony
$47,852,604
20 Shooter (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
Par.
$47,003,581
21 Because I Said So (HD DVD)
Uni.
$42,674,040
22 Epic Movie (Blu-ray)
Fox
$39,739,367
23 Fracture (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
NL
$38,558,074
24 Freedom Writers (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
Par.
$36,605,602
25 Smokin' Aces (HD DVD)
Uni.
$35,662,731
26 The Messengers (Blu-ray)
SGem
$35,374,833
27 The Number 23 (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
NL
$35,193,167
28 Surf's Up (Blu-ray)
Sony
$34,671,000
29 Zodiac (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
Par.
$33,080,083
30 Breach (HD DVD)
Uni.
$33,000,880
31 Tyler Perry's Daddy's Little Girls (Blu-ray)
LGF
$31,366,978
32 28 Weeks Later (Blu-ray)
FoxA
$27,839,144
33 Hannibal Rising (Blu-ray)
MGM/W
$27,669,725
34 The Reaping (Blu-ray and HD DVD)
WB
$25,126,214
35 Grindhouse (HD DVD)
W/Dim.
$25,030,000

I weep for the public. BD or HDDVD, many of those movies suck!

I think the PS3 is driving the Blu-ray rental/buy rates for now. With new, AAA PS3 titles all releasing soon (Rainbow Six, Warhawk, Home, Heavenly Sword, Uncharted, Ratchet, GTAIV, etc) PS3 sales will pickup even more, of course.

In the meantime, while the PS3 holds the fort, so to speak, the player prices will keep falling.

To be fair, in Canada, the BD-P1000 debuted at $1299 CDN. You can now order the BDP-S300 for $599 CDN - so in one year prices have dropped over 50%.

At this rate, it won't be long before $299 and under players are available and the PS3 will keep holding the line in the meantime.

With all due respect, and not to turn this thread towards the gaming side, but you haven't been keeping up with PS3 sales then. They are abysmal, selling less than 100k per month the last 2 months. $599 is still a lot of money for mainstream America, and with 2 of those titles you mentioned either 1) Already out for a competing cheaper console or 2) Releasing day and date with said cheaper console, PS3 sales aren't going to magically take off because of the price.


Here is one thing we can get straight. Even with the lower prices for HD DVD players for the last year HD DVD didn't manage even 30% of rentals between the formats in Blockbuster's test, according to what they said. This is the kind of thing that could be used by a salesman trying to sell somebody a Blu-ray player and including it as one advantage over an HD DVD player.

What's funny is that my local Blockbusters didn't rent either. So I couldn't even be part of that statistic. So I think the experiment itself really has some questions attached to it. Especially since I, a HD media owner, couldn't rent said media at all.


Blu-ray players still need to drop to a price point where more than just enthusiasts about next gen formats will purchase them.

And bonus points to JTYoung.

So let me ask this again, since no one answered me the first time. Other than drive away a segment of their business to a competing store that will rent HD DVD's, exactly what does this do for Blu-ray and Blockbuster?

It amazes me still that people are convinced that unlike Laserdiscs that never got past early adoption, somehow this and the destruction of HD DVD will mean everyone who wasn't going to spend $500 and up on a Blu-ray player was going to magically have a change of heart and run right out to Best Buy. Candy canes and gumdrops will fall from the sky as people rush right out to buy their BD players.

Of course, I am on an enthousiast site where money seems not to be an issue to most people. That's why there is a vast disconnect. That's why I see one format at this time becoming the next great Laserdisc. Those of us in the mainstream will simply be priced out of this and stick with renting regular DVD's from Redbox and downloading HD movies on Xbox Live. Congratulations BDA. :cool:

I have no problem backing BD either, if in fact it is crowned the champion by early next year.

I do have a question for everyone cheering this though. Blockbuster is backing BD in their rollout because it is outrenting HD DVD by a 3 to 1 margin.

And everyone is cheering and saying how logical and smart this is.

So, what if Blockbuster said that since Xbox 360 rentals are out-renting PS3 rentals by a 7-1 margin that they are no longer going to rent PS3 games?

Would you guys still think this was a great logical choice and "good" for consumers?

Let me take on your question.

The markets are different. Video games have a proven record of being able to support different game systems, which have different capabilities.

In the case of movies on video, this is much less so. Indeed, the two video formats are so similar that most people would not know the difference. The format war is also holding up adoption.

So, the situations are sufficiently different as to not support your analogy.

I think its great, there is no need for hd-dvd anyway. Smart move Blockbuster, I will have to start doing all my renting there again.

Smart move Blockbuster, I will have to start doing all my renting there again.
I would like to personally thank Rich Marty, Vice President of New Business Development at SPE for helping to enlighten Blockbuster that there was no need to wait for further "data" to make this decision.

Thanks Rich. :)

Other than drive away a segment of their business to a competing store that will rent HD DVD's, exactly what does this do for Blu-ray and Blockbuster?



Are you serious here? If so, you aren't thinking.

It is about potential owners coming into the HD format.

If you are trying to decide which format to buy, and you just found out that your local Blockbuster will only carry Blu-ray, do you think that this just might play into that decision???

With all due respect, and not to turn this thread towards the gaming side, but you haven't been keeping up with PS3 sales then. They are abysmal, selling less than 100k per month the last 2 months. $599 is still a lot of money for mainstream America, and with 2 of those titles you mentioned either 1) Already out for a competing cheaper console or 2) Releasing day and date with said cheaper console, PS3 sales aren't going to magically take off because of the price.

It is a lot higher than $599. It is $1200 per year:

By Colleen Bohen -- TWICE, 4/26/2007 12:59:00 PM
Arlington, Va. — The average American adult spends $1,200 annually on consumer electronics products, according a recently released study by the Consumer Electronics Association (CEA).

The study also found teens spend $350 on CE products each year, which the CEA says represents about half of their total annual discretionary income. The study also concluded that households with children and teens tend to spend up to $500 more on CE products than the national average.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6437122.html

Are you serious here? If so, you aren't thinking.

It is about potential owners coming into the HD format.

If you are trying to decide which format to buy, and you just found out that your local Blockbuster will only carry Blu-ray, do you think that this just might play into that decision???

Yes, why make your own decision when you can have it made for you. :p

I would like to personally thank Rich Marty, Vice President of New Business Development at SPE for helping to enlighten Blockbuster that there was no need to wait for further "data" to make this decision.

Thanks Rich. :)

For those that live outside of CA, this is yet another "name dropping" dude.

If I had a dime for everytime "names" were mentioned in the Hollywood area, I would be a rich man.

Yes, why make your own decision when you can have it made for you. :p

People don't seem to care that they don't have a choice when it comes to operating systems when buying a PC, why would they care what format their movies come on as long as it works?

People don't seem to care that they don't have a choice when it comes to operating systems when buying a PC, why would they care what format their movies come on as long as it works?

Good point.

However, Toshiba sales have seemed to pick up dramatically with their current promotions. Toshiba is going to be under tremendous pressure to make those 50K+ recently acquired HD DVD customers feel that they didn't just buy a boat anchor.

Even though Blockbuster is making this announcement now, how long before these BD rentals show up in the stores mentioned? 30 days? 60 days? Longer?

Toshiba will try to counter somehow, and although it looks very grim for them now, I am wondering what they will try to pull out of their hat for the 4th quarter.

People don't seem to care that they don't have a choice when it comes to operating systems when buying a PC, why would they care what format their movies come on as long as it works?

They do if they keep getting hit with malware, like rootkits....

Anyway, I'm not so worried since i just looked at those new BDPs streeting on the 18th, $499 and $599 respectively. Are they even profile 1.1? What about profile 2.0...?

I have to admit that putting a Blu-ray player in the PS3 was a very wise move. It certainly gives the impression that Blu-ray is kicking ass even if the standaone players haven't been selling well at all. Even the less than expected sales of the PS3 are still enough to create a software difference right now. Of course we really haven't seen the full effect that the less expensive HD DVD players might have on HD DVD software, but I guess the BDA is getting Blockbuster to make a pre-emptive move. It's a great move by the BDA and it will obviously help BD movie sales. It's also a good lesson for Toshiba to learn so that they will know where and how to spend their promotional budget---to pay off the other B&M stores to only carry HD DVD or at least push it to the forefront. Anything thing else spells doom for HD DVD.

Good point.

However, Toshiba sales have seemed to pick up dramatically with their current promotions. Toshiba is going to be under tremendous pressure to make those 50K+ recently acquired HD DVD customers feel that they didn't just buy a boat anchor.

Good question - wonder how many will return them IF they see the news

Even though Blockbuster is making this announcement now, how long before these BD rentals show up in the stores mentioned? 30 days? 60 days? Longer?

I believe the article says "next month" as that is in 2 weeks. Shipping 100 to 200 titles to 1450 stores overnight is no big deal.

Toshiba will try to counter somehow, and although it looks very grim for them now, I am wondering what they will try to pull out of their hat for the 4th quarter.

Guessing a permanent MSRP of the A2 for $299. - Announcement tomorrow (really today)

I have to admit that putting a Blu-ray player in the PS3 was a very wise move. It certainly gives the impression that Blu-ray is kicking ass even if the standaone players haven't been selling well at all. Even the less than expected sales of the PS3 are still enough to create a software difference right now. Of course we really haven't seen the full effect that the less expensive HD DVD players might have on HD DVD software, but I guess the BDA is getting Blockbuster to make a pre-emptive move. It's a great move by the BDA and it will obviously help BD movie sales. It's also a good lesson for Toshiba to learn so that they will know where and how to spend their promotional budget---to pay off the other B&M stores to only carry HD DVD or at least push it to the forefront. Anything thing else spells doom for HD DVD.

new bd players are hitting the street tomorrow. don't you think this announcement will help with sales? thus far ps3 was only reliable bd player.

It's also a good lesson for Toshiba to learn so that they will know where and how to spend their promotional budget---to pay off the other B&M stores to only carry HD DVD or at least push it to the forefront. Anything thing else spells doom for HD DVD.

This deal is more complicated than that and involves more players than just BB, I suspect, but it essentially works out to the same thing, only not so shady. Just low. But this is business we're talking about. and this is Sony we're talking about, so....

Good point.

However, Toshiba sales have seemed to pick up dramatically with their current promotions. Toshiba is going to be under tremendous pressure to make those 50K+ recently acquired HD DVD customers feel that they didn't just buy a boat anchor.

Even though Blockbuster is making this announcement now, how long before these BD rentals show up in the stores mentioned? 30 days? 60 days? Longer?

Toshiba will try to counter somehow, and although it looks very grim for them now, I am wondering what they will try to pull out of their hat for the 4th quarter.

the best part about this is it was so unexpected and NOT from sony. So even if toshiba tries to counter this is just one more ace for BDA that none of us or probably them for that matter was even counting on, so even if tosh tries something its not like theyre countering Sony, so sony is in a good position right now, as is the BDA.

IT WIRE

Blockbuster backs Blu-ray - HD DVD on the ropes?
By Adam Turner
Monday, 18 June 2007

In another blow to HD DVD, the giant Blockbuster video rental chain has thrown its weight behind Blu-ray in the fight to see which format is the high definition successor to the humble DVD.

After renting Blu-ray and HD DVD titles in 250 stores since late last year, Blockbuster has decide to stock only Blu-ray in its other 1250 US stores. Customers were choosing Blu-ray titles more than 70 percent of the time, reports Associated Press via the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

The release of Sony's Blu-ray-enabled PlayStation 3 games console was also a factor in the decision, said Blockbuster senior vice president of merchandising Matthew Smith. Smith's comments comes after Microsoft conceded that the Xbox 360 games console may eventually support Blu-ray.

While Blockbuster is following market trends, its backing of Blu-ray as the format winner is possible a self-fulfilling prophesy - with other retailers likely to follow Blockbuster's lead. Blu-ray also has some heavy-hitting backers in Australia, with entertainment retail chain JB Hi-Fi declaring it will only stock Blu-ray.

It's true that Blu-ray players are more expensive than their HD DVD counterparts, but at this point I don't think price is a factor. Early adopters aren't too concerned about price tags. In 12 months time when prices fall and the tag becomes important, it will probably already be too late for HD DVD.

Things are staring to look grim for HD DVD, but the format war could drag on due to the release of dual format Blu-ray/HD DVD players from the likes of Samsung and LG. While this is might seem to be a good thing, it's just going to delay mass adoption of one format and thus stop hardware and movie prices falling. Blu-ray v HD DVD is a battle to the death, and the sooner one dies the better off consumers will be.###

I am shocked to see so many of HD-DVD's most passionate supporters such as Amiable-Akuma share a similar view-point as me, the sooner this format war is over the better it will be for over-all HD adoption. I applaud you for you updated view on this war :)

~JoshThanks, Josh. Yes, I've loved Toshiba/HD DVD from the start but I have to say that I definitely began to have an "updated view", especially since CES '07 ended. A lot was revealed there in what wasn't said and to be honest, since January I've been acting like a scared b**** regarding the format war and the health of HD media. Actually, I have not purchased another HD DVD title since January and I've turned desperately to SD anime and Asian movies to fill the time. That's how uncomfortable I've been. After CES, it became clear that the war would go down a drastically unpredictable, contentious, and "shady" path that the consumer had no control over what so ever. That scared me to death, to be frank.

And I say this as someone who's early-adopted everything from "doomed-from-the-start" videogame systems (oh, Neo Geo Pocket Color, how I hardly knew ye) to imported Japanese MP3 players 5 years before the iPod existed.

Something about the way I love movies and have been forced to triple-dip so often has just frightened something deep inside me. I've never felt so volatile toward an early product - ever.

I'll take Slevin and Clerks 2 but Grindhouse was the worst movie ever made byfar hands down no contest. Not only was it bad and boring but it was so long and it felt like it lasted for 2 days.

P.S. I hated that movie. Man, I thought Grindhouse was awesome. 3 friends and I had a ball with it at the theater. Your comments are probably one of the greatest examples of "different strokes for different folks" that I have ever felt.

Circuit City has decreased its HD DVD rack in Santa Monica. It's now 2 to 1 rack in favor of Blu-ray.Same thing at my Best Buy in the Palisades Mall at Nanuet, NY.I was at the Best Buy in Downers Grove (A western suburb of Chicago) this weekend and saw 5 racks of Blu-Ray to 2 racks of HD-DVD. LOL. Heh, quotes like these make me want to run out to my local stores and see what the hell is going on for myself... :o Seem like it fits with what I last saw at my Best Buys but can't recall - need to go check for the fun/hell of it!

that's something bd really needs to address, players have to be functionally complete. at this point only ps3 qualifies as one.

PS3 can't be programmed into my Harmony remote = functionally incomplete (actually the only reason I didn't buy one last fall)

Guessing a permanent MSRP of the A2 for $299. - Announcement tomorrow (really today)


i don't think that will work, just more losses...

the best part about this is it was so unexpected and NOT from sony.

Of course. Of course....

PS3 can't be programmed into my Harmony remote = functionally incomplete (actually the only reason I didn't buy one last fall)

it can. i've done it, also posted a link to a how-to on the bd player forum.

If you want to let Blockbuster know how you feel about all this go here http://www.blockbuster.com/help/contactUs

I already told them what I think. Now I'm off to sign up with Netflix. :) No offense...I appreciate what you are doing (or think you are doing) - because I USED TO OFTEN POST THIS KIND OF THING MYSELF...but honestly if you haven't yet learned that such actions are a meaningless drop in the bucket and that we should embrace moves to end the war rather than do the opposite -- then I can't help you. ;)

i don't think that will work, just more losses...

More assumed loses. As has been pointed out by others, Sony has invested far more money into this fight than Toshiba has.

It's not over yet. ;)

i don't think that will work, just more losses...

They would have to go a lower lower than $299 at this point to get attention. They would probably have to go to at least $249 and maybe even lower. They would also have to do something in the retail space.

HD-DVD definitely does not enjoy the shelf space at BB and other retail that BD does. The frustrating thing is that there are over 100 good HD DVD titles that my local BB doesn't stock... yet, somehow, they think stocking "Species" on BD is a good idea.

:eek:

I'm gonna say it again...

With Weinstein having a good relationship with Blockbuster as well as "Hard Boiled" coming to blu-ray, I foresee an announcement soon about them going neutral. Here comes "Grindhouse!" Hmm...this is a good point...seems right! We shall see...

Of course. Of course....

facts > conjecture/blind hatred for Sony

They would have to go a lower lower than $299 at this point to get attention. They would probably have to go to at least $249 and maybe even lower. They would also have to do something in the retail space.

HD-DVD definitely does not enjoy the shelf space at BB and other retail that BD does. The frustrating thing is that there are over 100 good HD DVD titles that my local BB doesn't stock... yet, somehow, they think stocking "Species" on BD is a good idea.

:eek:

retailers won't try to help struggling format - they want the war to end asap. xmas sales are their lifeblood.

i don't think that will work, just more losses...

I see you are new here. Have you followed any of the threads that tried to deal with this issue?

NOT ONE poster has ANY proof of ANY kind to add merit to this fiction that Toshiba is losing money on ANY of it's HD DVD players OTHER than the A1 of which there was a June 2006 article by isupply that showed it was (they tear down CE and show what the components cost versus the MSRP.)

So if you would also like to waste your time and try to come up with ANYTHING that shows direct proof that this is a fact . . and not fiction.

We are all ears!