View Full Version : 720p Matroska vs HDDVD/BD


servatan
06-17-07, 10:35 PM
Hi,
I live in Mexico and I recently bought a KDS60A2000 and a PS3. I used this site for recomendations on the TV and I've been quite happy. However, I've watched three blu-ray movies (Black Hawk Down, Swordfish, PoTC 1) and several 720p Matroska movies including Into the Blue, Smokin' Aces, Casino Royal, etc.. and I haven't noticed a BIG difference between the matroska movies and the blu-ray ones. Are my eyes just not that sharp, is my TV not very well calibrated or is the difference just subtle?

ryoohki
06-17-07, 11:03 PM
Well here the MVK are nice but filled with Banding and Blocking, not worth them IMHO even if free, it give you an IDEA but it's a long shot from being the real thing. I used it 2 time to check 2 movies and bought them on Blu-Ray..

sstephen
06-17-07, 11:47 PM
Sorry, but I've looked at some decent 720p movies and they simply do not compare to the better 1080p movies on BD or HD DVD (only seen 3-4 HD DVD). At least not when displayed using my projector (which is 1080p). 720p looks real good right up until the time you see true 1080 on my display. BTW the 720 are usually upscaled on HTPC (nvidia based).

evans24
06-18-07, 02:49 AM
I can say that on a smaller set (32 inch 720p) a few of the mkv i've seen look pretty darn good, although I imagine on a larger set the flaws would show a lot more

BioSehnsucht
06-18-07, 04:53 AM
I've got one MKV that is stunning and 720p, no banding or such I noticed during playback, except my current box can't play it without hiccuping every few minutes in fast action, but 1080p WMV plays fine for me (probably partially due to hw accel being available for it). banding or lack there of has nothing to do with a mkv, anymore than it has to do with whether so-and-so released a HD-DVD or BD version of a movie. It has to do with how it was sourced, and how it was encoded, what bitrate, what options, how skilled the encoder was etc. Obviously, if you were to compare someting at 720p to something at 1080p, and assume all else equal quality-wise, 1080p would be preferred...

jkcheng122
06-18-07, 12:01 PM
mkv movies also don't offer lossless audio afaik.

servatan
06-18-07, 12:29 PM
I've seen some macroblocking in the matroska files but specially on show ones (heroes, prison break) but movies are fine for now. I've ordered several blu-rays and I hope the difference will now be mind blowing.

My set is 60" so thing are pretty much very visible; grain was visible in blu-rays I've watched but detail is very sharp. However, I find matroskas tu contain a very high amount of detail, when watching close-ups to characters faces I can see a large amount of detail.

Leviathin25
06-18-07, 12:46 PM
Does anyone know any good MKV converters ID like to convert them so I can watch them on my PS3 thanks.

pteittinen
06-18-07, 01:24 PM
Matroska is a container, not a codec. The quality of MKV files depends on the source, the codec and the bitrate - yeah, exactly like hd dvd and bd. Just remember that all video codecs are by nature lossy, and you lose something in every encoding round. If the source is a hd/bd rip, you're simply compressing for a second time something which was already compressed once. Cutting away half of the resolution might help a bit to hide new compression artefacts, and so does viewing them on a small screen. Project MKV re-encodes on a 10-foot wide screen, and they look horrible.

RXP
06-19-07, 01:26 AM
mkv movies also don't offer lossless audio afaik.

They do, blood diamond was recompressed to a lossless codec.

RXP
06-19-07, 01:29 AM
Project MKV re-encodes on a 10-foot wide screen, and they look horrible.

Not sure what encodes you're looking at, but they don't look horrible. On my 720p projector, I coudln't tell the difference between an original HD-DVD and an x264 encode (Aeon Flux).

I've seen some macroblocking in the matroska files but specially on show ones (heroes, prison break)

Usually the blocks are in the original MPEG-2 TS stream :-/

pteittinen
06-19-07, 02:12 AM
Not sure what encodes you're looking at, but they don't look horrible. On my 720p projector, I coudln't tell the difference between an original HD-DVD and an x264 encode (Aeon Flux).
I watch mostly low bitrate TV show caps, and have compared some of them to the original higher-bitrate MPEG-2 caps. No idea who did the encoding, but on my JVC HD1 the matroska versions look a whole lot worse. I've checked a couple of hd dvd re-encodes; they looked better, but there's a marked difference to the original. It might be that 1080p projection brings out the compression artefacts, or you might need glasses ;)

RXP
06-19-07, 03:14 AM
3rd choice: you might need to download better releases ;)

pteittinen
06-19-07, 04:43 AM
3rd choice: you might need to download better releases ;)
There aren't any, it seems. I'm talking about those ~1GB files by CTU and others.

talon95
06-19-07, 06:49 AM
There aren't any, it seems. I'm talking about those ~1GB files by CTU and others.

That's probably the reason for differing views. I think some are referring to the DVD5 and DVD9 recodes. I've done some comparisons with those on my 720p 10' screen (sitting about 18' back) and they look very close to the original.

It's fairly akin to a DVD9-->DVD5 recode of a DVD IMO. Obviously there's a resolution loss in the case of the MKV's, but it's not visible on my setup. Just additional blocking in some scenes (very minor in most cases though).

kschmit2
06-19-07, 07:51 AM
MKV/matroska is just a container. Doesn't tell you anything about the codecs used in it.

You can theoretically remux Blu-ray and HD DVD files into that container, and the PQ and AQ (so long as the audio codec is supported by MKV tools) would be identical to the retail BD or HD DVD.

PQ of movies in MKV containers will thus be completely dependent on the diligence exerted during encoding if they happen to be re-encodes.

pteittinen
06-19-07, 08:22 AM
That's probably the reason for differing views. I think some are referring to the DVD5 and DVD9 recodes.
I'm referring to episodes of TV shows; less than an hour of content per file.

Leviathin25
06-19-07, 08:46 AM
Does anyone know how I can covert mkv to mp4?

arfster
06-19-07, 09:12 AM
A lot of those MKVs will be rushed out in the quickest possible time, which doesn't really give the poor encodes much hope. With a 720p TV ep in 1gb, that's only 3mbit video bitrate, so encodes really need to do be done with the heaviest/slowest encoding options possible. Even then, it's not really enough - you want around 4.5mbit min for 720p imo, and more like 6-7 for the quick encodes they're doing.

You're also talking about a re-encode of a 720p original that is quite possible statmuxxed live, so isn't really the best source. All in all, it's amazing the quality you do get.

RXP
06-19-07, 10:43 AM
The actual transport streams you get for TV shows aren't good. They have macroblocking everywhere. When the source material is good (why I mentioned hd-dvd), the dvd5 and 9 re-encodes look wonderful on my 108" and I cannot tell the difference.

pteittinen
06-19-07, 11:47 AM
The actual transport streams you get for TV shows aren't good.
Some are, some aren't. Most aren't.

talon95
06-19-07, 12:04 PM
Some are, some aren't. Most aren't.

They also vary a lot around the country. I've seen the multiple .ts file copies of the same show with considerably different quality.

RXP
06-19-07, 03:16 PM
The best feeds seem to be from SkyHD in the UK. They have extremely high bitrate H.264 streams. Just a shame the UK is always behind in all shows apart from Stargate.

servatan
06-19-07, 04:20 PM
Yesterday I watched Ghost Rider in Matroska and it looked gorgeous on my 60"SXRD. I agree that the quality of a show is inferior to a movie (bd or hd) rip.

RXP
06-20-07, 03:15 AM
I feel that the availability of HD movies at around 4.5gb or ~10gb (for 1080p) proves the viability of HD downloads. My friends and family are very impressed with the downloads I show them.

Also quite interesting how we could have HD on DVD-9's. Of course most people in AVS will be horrified by the thought of 'low' bitrate x264, but hey I like it.

eric.exe
06-20-07, 04:07 AM
mkv movies also don't offer lossless audio afaik.

Some groups are using FLAC for audio now.

Anyway, I'd take these 720p x264 releases over the DVD anyday, until I can get the real thing.

ryoohki
06-20-07, 11:09 AM
The only one i got is Paprika, i wanted to check it out.. it's nice but theres a LOT of macroblock and banding in most scene... some are ok.. other are worst than DVD..

BioSehnsucht
06-21-07, 04:17 PM
I haven't noticed any blocking in Paprika, the one I have is ~2.2GB (from THORA). Granted, I'm still on a 19" CRT currently, but I am running 1280x960 (which the 1280x720 LB's into). Using latest CCCP.. certainly nothing in it could be worse than a DVD.