USB 2.0 interface(high speed) & card reader
·Support SD/MMC/MS/XD card
·Support 1G NAND Flash
·DISC Playable: Blu-ray disc /H.264/MPEG4/DivX/XviD/DVD/SVCD/VCD/CD/MP3 /Kodak
Picture/Photo CD/WMV9
·Support: DivX3.11/4.02/5.02/5.03/5.05 and later,DivXPro, XviD,Nero digital
·PAL/NTSC/MULTI TV system compatible
·Full function remote control
·Support 4:3 & 16:9 TV mode
·High Definition video(HDMI V1.3) output
·10/100M BaseT Ethernet (RJ45)
·Mini PCI interface ,Support wireless home networking
·SATA HDD socket
·Building in HDD
　
　 ·Component video output (Y,Pb,Pr)
·Composite video output
·S-Video output
·SPDIF Coaxial digital audio output
·Optical digital audio output（optional）
·Scart output
·5.1-CH Surround Sound Output
·2CH Dolby Downmix Output
http://www.gowellent.net/product%20web/vedio%20series/G875.htmlhttp://www.gowellent.net/product%20image/vedio%20series/875.jpg

If the specs are correct this would be the first BD player that was really competitive with the PS3 on media features.

Wonder what the pricing will be?

Doesn't look like it supports advanced audio. I just see DD5.1 and Dolby downmix.

Doesn't look like it supports advanced audio. I just see DD5.1 and Dolby downmix.

I hope that isn't the case, I am really enjoying the lossless and would not be willing to part with it to save a little money. Not that buying an additional player saves me money ;).

"Cheap Chinese players" and all...

To the crowd that such items appeal to, I doubt that the audio capabilities are as great a concern. I certainly never expected the eventual/rumored Chinese HD DVD players to be bothering with advanced audio licensing fees. People just want something to be able to play that new high-def format they saw on the wall at their local Blockbuster. ;)

The picture looks fake. It does not look like a photo - more like a computer graphic.

Impressive specs. Perhaps this isn't going to be any old cheap Chinese players. But we'll have to wait and see how it performs against the ps3 or other blu-ray players in terms of PQ.

I notice it has HDMI 1.3. Perhaps it has bitstream.

I suspect that most nextgen players will have limited on-board audio decoding but offer bitstream through HDMI 1.3.

The picture looks fake. It does not look like a photo - more like a computer graphic.

That's because it is a computer graphic. Obviously it's just a conceptual placeholder for the product.

That's because it is a computer graphic. Obviously it's just a conceptual placeholder for the product.
True. They have similar drawn pictures for DVD players too.

Isn't this topic old already? It was posted a few weeks ago here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=855724

It claims a 'building in' HDD. If true, it can't be <$200. They could however take out the internal HDD and get to that price if they are truly a single SOC (and not require external cpu+dram+NB).

http://www.gowellent.net/product%20web/vedio%20series/G875.html

The picture looks fake. It does not look like a photo - more like a computer graphic.You should just click the URL in the OP :rolleyes:

It's kinda funny. 12 or so people have spots on their discs, with one series of spots looking a lot like tampering. OMGZ! BLU-ROT!

A large percentage of the already small percentage of people who own one of four discs released across several months and it's, "Oh, it's not that bad. It's not that bad, just give Toshiba time... Toshiba only needs 3 or so months..."

Please. I've yet to see a single disc with this so-called Blu-rot (and I own The Prestige, The Departed, and Stranger than Fiction) and I've experienced three of the four HD DVD's with problems firsthand. People were talking about Hollywoodland incompatibility back in Feb. Children of Men in March. And Smokin' Aces in April. It was a lot of people complaining about it. Hell, people went so far as to start thread after thread until we realized the common connection of Universal and Combo Flippers.

So for me, I own 60% BD, 40% HD DVD and I've had the following number of problems with discs:

HD DVD: 4 (Hollywoodland, Children of Men, Smokin' Aces x 2)
BD: 0

So stop derailing this thread. The point is that there's a Chinese Cheapo Calvary player coming for BD, too. We all knew it was inevitable. Did the Redcoats really think that HD DVD would get all the Chinese cheap crap for themselves?

That was just another lie fed to you by the Red Camp. With HD DVD, you've always got to look at what they're NOT saying to really see the big picture.

"We've got advanced features, so we're more fully featured." Except most discs don't have lossless audio.

"We've got 51 gig discs coming. We've got more space!" Except it'll have questionable compatibility with current players and it's still nowhere to be seen. They can't even do combo flippers right, will they get TL's right?

"We've got Combo Flippers! We've got backwards compatibility!" Except it costs more. Has a bad track record of quality. And it defeats the purpose of its existence if it costs more than most BD's.

"We've got more standalone sales not counting the PS3." Except the PS3 is the best-selling and best-featured BD player currently available. So not counting it is the same as knocking off all A2 sales on the HD DVD side: stupid. Those PS3's still make a big difference and if you doubt that, look at January-Feb sales pickup in BD. And standalone sales don't mean anything without a noticable jump in disc sales, too.

"Our attach rate is higher!" Except attach rate being high means fewer player and more sales. A fickle audience that may or may not decide to continue buying as many discs as they have in the past. A larger number of units, lower attach rate will be healthier and can lead to really huge successes for sales in the longterm. Moreover, one would think that if the attach rate was being maintained then all these new players sold would lead to a lot more disc sales, but sales remain virtually unchanged.

"Blockbuster doesn't matter! Netflix iz best!" Except Blockbuster still does more business than Netflix. Blockbuster has a "real" presence and can impact customer views of movies. Sure, enthusiasts on AVS don't use Blockbuster, but the life or death of a format doesn't depend on us. It depends on the people who visit Blockbusters and who go to Best Buy's and view endcaps and make their decisions based off the salespeople's questionable opinions.

"Fox and MGM aren't releasing anything! Universal's got as many releases as Sony+Disney. Universal FTW!" Except Universal is crapping out catalogue releases just to inflate the numbers of discs available. Few of them are really selling. And worse, the rush to get more titles out has begun to impact the quality of the discs being shoveled out. Which leads me to...

"HD DVD has better quality than BD!" True last year when the AVC and VC1 encoders for Blu-ray weren't ready. Not true today when Sony and Disney are releasing top-tier titles with ultra-high level bitrate encodes and almost "universal"-ly lossless audio. Today, it's WB and Universal titles being panned for inferior releases. Low bit rates for Blood Diamond, macroblocking with VC!?, and the magical VC1 encoder suddenly not making the crap in Universal's oldies look superb. Woe.

HD DVD's got a lot of smoke and not much fire these days.

"We've got advanced features, so we're more fully featured." Except most discs don't have lossless audio.
Except that, bummer, outside of the niche that is AVS nobody gives a damn.

"We've got Combo Flippers! We've got backwards compatibility!" Except it costs more. Has a bad track record of quality. And it defeats the purpose of its existence if it costs more than most BD's
Sure does, & I don't like them.............but how happy will the avg consumer be to shell out for 2 discs? One for the kids room/car & one for the "main viewing"? How many will actually buy 2 copies of a Disney flick? or not be annoyed that they have to? No decision on this one.

We've got more standalone sales not counting the PS3." Except the PS3 is the best-selling and best-featured BD player currently available. So not counting it is the same as knocking off all A2 sales on the HD DVD side: stupid. Those PS3's still make a big difference and if you doubt that, look at January-Feb sales pickup in BD. And standalone sales don't mean anything without a noticable jump in disc sales, too.
Yep, except the sales for the PS3 suck - the gamer/die hards have bought theirs & @ $600 it's a boat anchor in the stores. They need a price cut, down to 360 levels or it will stay that way.

HD DVD's got a lot of smoke and not much fire these days.
At this point I'd say they both do - they're formats without a market. Unless they get the price down to DVD levels & fast they're likely to remain a niche @ best.

I also hope to hear a price soon,

and along with price - I hope this thread doesn't get crapped into another format debate thread.

Except that, bummer, outside of the niche that is AVS nobody gives a damn.

anyone interested in the new formats will care

Sure does, & I don't like them.............but how happy will the avg consumer be to shell out for 2 discs? One for the kids room/car & one for the "main viewing"? How many will actually buy 2 copies of a Disney flick? or not be annoyed that they have to? No decision on this one.

or worse, buy the most expensive version to find out it doesnt work. what a letdown that would be, especially for the kids.

Yep, except the sales for the PS3 suck - the gamer/die hards have bought theirs & @ $600 it's a boat anchor in the stores. They need a price cut, down to 360 levels or it will stay that way.
while sales may be sh1tty vs other game consoles, can't deny it helped market penetration for blu-ray. from what i read in an earlier post, most ps3 owners are happy with their purchase. prices will drop and better games will come out, i think the ps3 has no where to go but up.

At this point I'd say they both do - they're formats without a market. Unless they get the price down to DVD levels & fast they're likely to remain a niche @ best.
now that hd-dvd is declining, a lot of its supporters are trying to say both formats are just a niche at best. if blockbuster saw fit after experimenting with 250 stores to start stocking blu-ray discs across 1500 stores, there's a future for the format imo.

anyone interested in the new formats will care
No they won't they never will. Few even have DD5.1 - what possible difference would lossless make? And we won't even get into whether or not anyone can tell......smell a lot like this test (http://www.hometheaterfocus.com/receivers/amplifier-sound-quality.aspx) a lot say they can tell & yet they can't. Point? It's a non-issue anywhere but the niche that is AVS, more important fish to fry - getting SD DVD gone.

or worse, buy the most expensive version to find out it doesnt work. what a letdown that would be, especially for the kids.
This isn't about formats, simply the public reaction. I don't like combos, don't have any use for them. My point was the reaction of the general public - who have a need - to the fact that the disc will only play in one machine. Happy? Annoyed? Or will they just take a pass?

while sales may be sh1tty vs other game consoles, can't deny it helped market penetration for blu-ray. from what i read in an earlier post, most ps3 owners are happy with their purchase. prices will drop and better games will come out, i think the ps3 has no where to go but up.
Definately helped. Nobody knows about the future but a lot is riding on it ever becoming anything but a port platform & given the architecture? Not sold on that. Immediate need is a price drop, it's not going anywhere @ the current price.

if blockbuster saw fit after experimenting with 250 stores to start stocking blu-ray discs across 1500 stores, there's a future for the format imo.
I'm not sure we can judge anything from BB, they have a history of screwing the pooch. And from what I see it makes sense for them to pick a format - they can't afford to stock both = no space. Who knows the reason, maybe their in store rental demographics favored one over the other = lots of Disney/current box office rentals. Doesn't matter, they've picked one & it will have an impact.

hey buddy you forgot to put this on the spec list "¡¤Support Blu-ray driver" as is stated on there page. I personally don't think it comes with the drive it looks more like a media center box where you can add a external drive later. Also the picture does not show the blu-ray logo anywhere and it has a DVD logo on the internal drive.

Except it renders the disc completely unable to play, whereas the HD DVDs can be played.

Are you being that petty that you are bashing an entire format because a few copies have developed spots on the discs. Both sides have discs which had bad pressings and were unable to be played.
What point are you trying to make ?
Look there is alot of bad karma in the avs HD MEdia forums today.
Lets just all go to my Chuck Norris on blu-ray and hd-dvd thread and have fun at the expense of good ol' Chuck !
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=861946

No they won't they never will. Few even have DD5.1 - what possible difference would lossless make?
with all the $199 and up HTIB packages i wonder if this is still the case. not trying to argue ur point here, i'm really curious. back when i first started getting into digital sound, none of my friends knew what all the stuff is. now many of my friends have 5.1 systems in their homes. all it takes to go lossless is adding hdmi port, which should be implemented more and more into these packages for the home theater newbies.

Definately helped. Nobody knows about the future but a lot is riding on it ever becoming anything but a port platform & given the architecture? Not sold on that. Immediate need is a price drop, it's not going anywhere @ the current price.
pretty sure there will be a price drop before xmas shopping season starts, they definitely need to move more units. price drop and at least one platform defining game is necessary. sony is taking the right steps in this regard at least and have been starting to listen to the customers with public blogs and CEO interviews. howard stringer has said they're looking at the price of the ps3 right now. price drop is coming, when and how much is still a question.

I'm not sure we can judge anything from BB, they have a history of screwing the pooch. And from what I see it makes sense for them to pick a format - they can't afford to stock both = no space.
i'm actually one of the ppl who have walked into a blockbuster and asked them about blu-ray rentals and guess contributed to the decision. i think the ps3 has a lot to do with this. ps3 owners have a severe lack of games to play, some ended up selling their machines on ebay, others looked into blu-ray. the first place ppl would go to to get a movie is usually blockbuster.

most hd-dvd owners have a few discs that came with their player, recent buyers can get up to 5 discs free, so the need for rentals isn't as high. i'm just speculating here of course.

i'm just speculating here of course.
Ain't we all :)

My concern is the negative backlash associated with HD media in general.

1) Advanced BD features - folks say it doesn't matter but only has to happen once & a customer will be PO'd....bigtime

2) How well buying 2 discs fly? Likely many will pass on the BD version if it's one player only or it will annoy those who discover it after

The buget players are a welcome addition, I just want SD DVD to go away :D

The buget players are a welcome addition, I just want SD DVD to go away :D

that's likely going to take 10 to 15 years if ever, and after the HD formats are down to 1 format.

Is it me or are the only Chinese players that are showing up Blu Ray????

I wonder if even the Chinese have bailed on HD DVD. If the Chinese balk at the low margins Toshiba seems happy with, we may never see a Chinese HD DVD player..

that's likely going to take 10 to 15 years if ever, and after the HD formats are down to 1 format.

My guess is that IF the format war concludes soon, without a stalemate, that the surviving format will take over so completely that within 2 years you will not be able to find a new "classic DVD" player except for very cheap or special purpose equipment.

Title fixed.


I doubt this player will provide the fix that most of us who visit this forum crave...

But, I guess we'll see soon enough. What was the price again?

And yeah, that's a rendering. Add about 2" more to that and that's what it will look like at final.

No VC-1 support??

With no advanced Codecs like TruHD, DD+ or DTS HD, a no go for me...

That's because it is a computer graphic. Obviously it's just a conceptual placeholder for the product.

as a conceptual placeholder for the product they should at least get the logo right. They only put DVD as opposed to BD logo. :rolleyes:

Why are people on her complaining. This player is not for the people on here. This player is for the people that dont want to spend 4 or 5 hundred on a player. This is another huge step for mass adoption. I wont ever own one like Ive never owned a 50 dollar dvd player. This is huge and wonderful news for the format in general.

I'm not complaining. I wish this player is available so I can buy another player for the other TV room so my daughter can watch Disney BD.

Why are people on her complaining. This player is not for the people on here. This player is for the people that dont want to spend 4 or 5 hundred on a player. This is another huge step for mass adoption. I wont ever own one like Ive never owned a 50 dollar dvd player. This is huge and wonderful news for the format in general.

Ding, ding, ding!

With no advanced Codecs like TruHD, DD+ or DTS HD, a no go for me...


Good objection, but is it possible that the HDMI 1.3 (which is in the specs) passes bitstream?

As I mentioned, I think that this will become the standard configuration.

Looks nice except for the audio specs. I'd like to see it in the sub $200 bracket...

Are the specs finally complete? If so then its good, if not then it is a no-go.

If I were to guess, this is based on the sigma 8634. If it is a full SOC, then there is no external host cpu, no need for extra dram (on top of what the sigma chip needs), and no need for a north bridge chip. Without these cost adders, there is a chance to hit that low enough BOM. If they need external host, their BOM is going to be close to the HD-A2.

As for the digital audio support. I am wary of letting the player decode the audio to PCM, apparently HD-DVD and BD insiders have all stated thay they want to mix in other sounds to the PCM audio. This is something I don't want the player to be able to do, and hence my preferred path is to send TrueHD/DTS-HDMA straight from disk to the Onkyo 605 or other HDMI1.3 compliant AVR. All players should have an option to disable this 'feature'.

Still, even if the gowell player is not vaporware, I doubt people in avsforum will use this thing as a primary player. It would be ok as a 2nd or 3rd, but the thing just looks too flimsy and cheap. It probably clashes with the monster cable and oxygen free platinum interconnects.

I'm not expecting these things to work well, or to work at all for that matter. Somebody else can go first.

I had an experience with the Chinese company APEX a few years back, which was the first company to put out a combo SACD/DVD-A player. Needless to say it was a total POS and J&R Music pretty much had to eat their whole shipment and every single one of them was defective and returned to the company. That's why I'm a bit wary of these low cost Chinese knock-offs.

Network connectivity, if it can play downloaded x264's that would be awesome!

Did anyone stop to think about features mandated by the BD specs? Unless a player has the mandatory features, it can't be marketed as a Blu-ray player. Remember LG's combo that lacks iHD and couldn't be marketed as a HD DVD player? Looks to me like there are quite a few mandatory features missing from this player, so the BDA will probably do something about it.

Did anyone stop to think about features mandated by the BD specs? Unless a player has the mandatory features, it can't be marketed as a Blu-ray player. Remember LG's combo that lacks iHD and couldn't be marketed as a HD DVD player? Looks to me like there are quite a few mandatory features missing from this player, so the BDA will probably do something about it.

How do you tell it has mandatory features missing? Do you mean their DVD players are also missing mandatory features because they're not listed? I think they are only listing non-mandatory features and stating that it will play Blu-ray means it will have mandatory features.

How do you tell it has mandatory features missing?
I was simply looking at the specs they released. You can't say for certain it doesn't have mandatory features missing, either.

Hmm... what do you guys think...?

Will this player Go Well ....?

BOOM BOOM! TISH.

Hmm... what do you guys think...?

Will this player Go Well ....?

BOOM BOOM! TISH.

No TrueHD, DD+ support... I don't know if it supports BD-Java 1.1... I wouldn't buy this player if it cost $200. Why does the BDA have such a difficult time with Blu-Ray players which have finalized specs across the board?

Your $200 HD DVD Add-on doesn't support TrueHD or DD+. Smells of a double standard.

It decodes them, if it couldn't then I wouldn't get audio which would be a problem. If I buy a Blu-Ray disc and it can't decode TrueHD then I wouldn't be able to get audio, hence the need for mandatory specifications.

It decodes them, if it couldn't then I wouldn't get audio which would be a problem. If I buy a Blu-Ray disc and it can't decode TrueHD then I wouldn't be able to get audio, hence the need for mandatory specifications.

How do you get the lossless audio to your receiver though ?
HDMI 1.3 ? 6 channel analog ? Does the 360 even have these ?
Sorry man, i think your only getting Dolby Digital.

How do you get the lossless audio to your receiver though ?
HDMI 1.3 ? 6 channel analog ? Does the 360 even have these ?
Sorry man, i think your only getting Dolby Digital.

I'm getting DTS, my point is that the player still decodes the format, if it didn't then I wouldn't be getting audio at all. Hence the need for mandatory specs

Sorry man, i think your only getting Dolby Digital.
1.5mbit/s DTS and 1.5mbit/s WMA Pro will do...

Every TrueHD title has both a TrueHD and DD track, regardless of format. Why wouldn't you be able to get audio?

If something isn't decoded then it wouldn't be able to be used right?

Either way, this Blu-Ray player is definitely not worth it. The BDA needs to get their act together.

I'm getting DTS, my point is that the player still decodes the format, if it didn't then I wouldn't be getting audio at all. Hence the need for mandatory specs

So you are bashing this player for not being able to decode Dolby TrueHD even though your player simply gets DTS out of it ?

Are you saying if you get a DTS 1.5mbps track out of Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA you'd be happy ?
And yes you would get audio. What Movie does not come with lossy encodes that also has Dolby TrueHD ?

This player has at least HDMI 1.3 which will enable it to send the raw encode to a receiver should you choose to get one. At least you have the possibility of getting full lossless sound. I cannot say the same thing for the add-on.

I cannot believe the fanaticism in this thread. It's unbelievable.

No VC-1 support or DTS support? It cannot be a Blu-Ray player.

Maybe a DVD player with a Blu-Ray drive that can be used to read burned BDs filled with divx and mp4 video files.

So you are bashing this player for not being able to decode Dolby TrueHD even though your player simply gets DTS out of it ?

Are you saying if you get a DTS 1.5mbps track out of Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA you'd be happy ?
And yes you would get audio. What Movie does not come with lossy encodes that also has Dolby TrueHD ?

This player has at least HDMI 1.3 which will enable it to send the raw encode to a receiver should you choose to get one. At least you have the possibility of getting full lossless sound. I cannot say the same thing for the add-on.

I cannot believe the fanaticism in this thread. It's unbelievable.

No, I'm bashing the lack of mandatory specs. It doesn't even support BD-Java 1.1

No, I'm bashing the lack of mandatory specs. It doesn't even support BD-Java 1.1

These are just early specs of the player. If this player will be released after Oct 31st, it will be BD-J 1.1 or else it cannot be a blu-ray player.

It doesn't even mention MPEG-2 capable, let alone VC-1.
I think its obvious this isn't the final specs and/or someone forgot to put all the information on the webpage.

Off-topic comments and member bashing removed. Stick to the topic, sports fans.

Toshiba doesn't list VC-1 on the specs for any of their HD-DVD players. Does that mean they don't play HD-DVD's?

Do we know if this player will even be released in the U.S.?

I find it funny that despite all the talk of cheap Chinese players being the savior of HD DVD, the first actual official Chinese player is a BD player. Too damn funny! :D

Off-topic comments and member bashing removed. Stick to the topic, sports fans.

You talkin' to me? ;)

Toshiba doesn't list VC-1 on the specs for any of their HD-DVD players. Does that mean they don't play HD-DVD's?

Toshiba site doesn't list any video codec at all. This site lists all the supported codecs instead, and VC-1 is missing. There is a big difference. :rolleyes:

And more importantly, it doesn't list DTS as audio, but only dolby. DTS is mandatory in the Blu-Ray specifications. So it cannot be a Blu-Ray player.

I find it funny that despite all the talk of cheap Chinese players being the savior of HD DVD, the first actual official Chinese player is a BD player. Too damn funny! :D




At least HD DVD players have those Chinese companies' mockups with proper HD DVD logo whereas this BD player is nothing more than a computer generated image with only SD DVD logo. :p

It claims a 'building in' HDD. If true, it can't be <$200. They could however take out the internal HDD and get to that price if they are truly a single SOC (and not require external cpu+dram+NB).

http://www.gowellent.net/product%20web/vedio%20series/G875.html

Why can't be $200?
Why would a built-in HDD require cpu+dram+nb?

I'm not expecting these things to work well, or to work at all for that matter. Somebody else can go first.

I had an experience with the Chinese company APEX a few years back, which was the first company to put out a combo SACD/DVD-A player. Needless to say it was a total POS and J&R Music pretty much had to eat their whole shipment and every single one of them was defective and returned to the company. That's why I'm a bit wary of these low cost Chinese knock-offs.

I hear this a lot, and I agree completely. While I'm happy that it will boost adoption of the format, that's about as much as I care to support these kinds of players. When working at an electronics store, I saw way too many of these things returned. Sure, everyone's looking for a good deal, and it's tempting to pick something like this up thinking "Well, how bad could it be?"

Every time someone asks me about those cheapo DVD players, I say the same thing. "It's up to you, but if I were in your position, I wouldn't want one."

USB 2.0 interface(high speed) & card reader
·Support SD/MMC/MS/XD card
·Support 1G NAND Flash
·DISC Playable: Blu-ray disc /H.264/MPEG4/DivX/XviD/DVD/SVCD/VCD/CD/MP3 /Kodak
Picture/Photo CD/WMV9
·Support: DivX3.11/4.02/5.02/5.03/5.05 and later,DivXPro, XviD,Nero digital
·PAL/NTSC/MULTI TV system compatible
·Full function remote control
·Support 4:3 & 16:9 TV mode
·High Definition video(HDMI V1.3) output
·10/100M BaseT Ethernet (RJ45)
·Mini PCI interface ,Support wireless home networking
·SATA HDD socket
·Building in HDD
　
　 ·Component video output (Y,Pb,Pr)
·Composite video output
·S-Video output
·SPDIF Coaxial digital audio output
·Optical digital audio output（optional）
·Scart output
·5.1-CH Surround Sound Output
·2CH Dolby Downmix Output
http://www.gowellent.net/product%20web/vedio%20series/G875.htmlhttp://www.gowellent.net/product%20image/vedio%20series/875.jpg


Sorry but this looks like a TiVo type box. The HDD is a giveaway. 4:3 TV mode, Composite ... surely not a BR player don't you think?

"Cheap Chinese players" and all...

To the crowd that such items appeal to, I doubt that the audio capabilities are as great a concern. I certainly never expected the eventual/rumored Chinese HD DVD players to be bothering with advanced audio licensing fees. People just want something to be able to play that new high-def format they saw on the wall at their local Blockbuster. ;)
Licensing fees had never stopped the cheap chinese DVD players before. @$21 or so in walmart, there is no way the DVD FLLC gets even a penny from any of those players, let alone DolbyLabs or DTS.

As I understand it, if a manufacturer doesn't pay the licence fees, or (just as an example) allows the firmware to be hacked too easily to remove the encryption, then the keys will get changed and the machines revoked (or something along those lines), unlike dvd where there was only the one set of keys.

If that is the case, don't expect to see $21 BD players anytime soon.

1.5mbit/s DTS and 1.5mbit/s WMA Pro will do...

...until you have heard clean and dynamic lossless surround sound.

...until you have heard clean and dynamic lossless surround sound.
Certainly. Most consumers couldn't tell the difference, however.

Certainly. Most consumers couldn't tell the difference, however.

I don't quite believe that. Every person I've done A/B with can was able to notice the difference and that is without telling them which is which. I ask them which they prefer then explain the differences. edit: Material used = Black Hawk Down and The Prestige.

If they care or go out of their way to look for it when buying though, that is another thing though.

I ask them which they prefer then explain the differences.
Let me guess: they preferred the louder one. I have a hard time believing you did a proper AB(X) test. There are plenty of studies about the whole lossy/lossless thing, as I'm sure you know.

Let me guess: they preferred the louder one. I have a hard time believing you did a proper AB(X) test. There are plenty of studies about the whole lossy/lossless thing, as I'm sure you know.

You guessed wrong :p

edit: If you can't tell the difference between the DD and Lossless tracks I certainly will not argue it, after all everbody has their limitations. Plenty of us here at AVS can and enjoy the difference. For us it is quite nice. For me it is one of the big reasons I double dip on some titles. Stepping up on PQ is great but that is only half the job :)

being able to tell the difference on an A/B test is one thing. Most people can do this. However, how many people can actually tell which is which WITHOUT comparison?

and it has 1080p support thats better than entry level HD DVD players!

Did any of you actually click the link where it takes you to a dead page and that after 30 minutes surfing the site I couldn't find the player listed at all? And this is "coming soon"?

Did any of you actually click the link where it takes you to a dead page and that after 30 minutes surfing the site I couldn't find the player listed at all? And this is "coming soon"?

It wasn't a dead link when it was first posted, the player looked like a slim black player but it wasn't a photo, it was a computer generated pic.

It wasn't a dead link when it was first posted, the player looked like a slim black player but it wasn't a photo, it was a computer generated pic.

and it says "DVD" on it instead of Blu-ray. Something that's interestingly nobody take notice.

I don't quite believe that. Every person I've done A/B with can was able to notice the difference and that is without telling them which is which. I ask them which they prefer then explain the differences. edit: Material used = Black Hawk Down and The Prestige.

If they care or go out of their way to look for it when buying though, that is another thing though.

but the real question is "Can J6P with the RCA HTIB from walmart tell the difference on his system???"

From a sound quality stand point, I am pretty sure the answer will be no...whether one format is mixed at louder level than the other so it sounds louder at the same volume setting on a receiver is another story...

but the real question is "Can J6P with the RCA HTIB from walmart tell the difference on his system???"

From a sound quality stand point, I am pretty sure the answer will be no...whether one format is mixed at louder level than the other so it sounds louder at the same volume setting on a receiver is another story...

2 channel lossless yes, 5.1 though doesn't work unless you have 5.1 or more outs on your blu-ray/hd-dvd player and the HTIB has the inputs for it as well. That is the trade off my friend goes through right now on his setup as his receiver doesn't have HDMI in and the PS3 doesn't have 5.1 analog outs. We go with 2 channel when watching at his place.

What we really need is for a decent Chinese audio company to rip off the Sony TA-P9000es, the only affordable analog-only surround preamp/switcher. They were built briefly to cover Sony's error in creating SACD without a digital output format while its TA-E9000es processor lacked analog inputs. Now whenever one appears on ebay it gets bid up to $400.
Instead, I use an even older Yamaha MVS-1. It's a 6-channel passive volume control, but unlike the Sony it can only switch between one 6-channel and two stereo sources. And it has no remote. I've gotten very good sound out of it, but not as good as plugging my Oppo 970 directly into the power amp and using its digital volume control. It's what I will have to use for my first HDDVD/Blu-Ray player, though. Unless it's built by Oppo.

Just curious, Shouldn't this thread belong to the Blu-ray Players Area?

· Scart output

For which market is this Player intended? What are Americans doing with a Scart output? Would be good for Europeans with a older TV though. :rolleyes:

So you are bashing this player for not being able to decode Dolby TrueHD even though your player simply gets DTS out of it ?

Are you saying if you get a DTS 1.5mbps track out of Dolby TrueHD and DTS MA you'd be happy ?
And yes you would get audio. What Movie does not come with lossy encodes that also has Dolby TrueHD ?

This player has at least HDMI 1.3 which will enable it to send the raw encode to a receiver should you choose to get one. At least you have the possibility of getting full lossless sound. I cannot say the same thing for the add-on.

I cannot believe the fanaticism in this thread. It's unbelievable.

Do you lmow that the PS3 a;so has HDMI 1.3 but cannot pass bitstream? Being 1.3 means very little since most things are optional, not mandated to work. You really should check your facts before xalling people fanatics!

and it has 1080p support thats better than entry level HD DVD players!

That really depends on how it handles 1080P. I prefer not having it if it's done wrong.

Originally Posted by
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/customavatars/avatar3597_0.gif

Is it me or are the only Chinese players that are showing up Blu Ray????

Which Chinese Blu-ray player are you referring to?

I find it funny that despite all the talk of cheap Chinese players being the savior of HD DVD, the first actual official Chinese player is a BD player. Too damn funny! :D



You talkin' to me? ;)

How do you know this is an "official" BR player? Try to find it on the url. It looks like someone having a bit of fun to me.

http://www.gowellent.net/product%20web/vedio%20series/G875.html

http://www.gowellent.net/vedio%20series.html

:confused:

You guessed wrong :p
How about publishing some specs on how you did the testing, then? I'm sure you kept some notes. What movies and equipment was used? Did you do proper blind testing, with sound levels matched, where the subjects were not told which audio format was being played?

Honestly, I've lost count of how many times I've bumped into people claiming they've done proper comparison, and when questioned, it turns out they never did. "Lossless sounds better because... it's lossless!", is the typical reply they give afterwards. Not saying you didn't do a comparison, just a wee bit skeptical about the results.

edit: If you can't tell the difference between the DD and Lossless tracks I certainly will not argue it, after all everbody has their limitations. Plenty of us here at AVS can and enjoy the difference. For us it is quite nice.
Where did I say I couldn't hear the difference? Nice bit of elitism there, by the way, with that "us" <> "you" bit. Also, points for getting that "limitations" insult in there so casually. And you totally skirted the issue of already published studies into lossy/lossless blind comparisons.

How about publishing some specs on how you did the testing, then? I'm sure you kept some notes. What movies and equipment was used? Did you do proper blind testing, with sound levels matched, where the subjects were not told which audio format was being played?

Honestly, I've lost count of how many times I've bumped into people claiming they've done proper comparison, and when questioned, it turns out they never did. "Lossless sounds better because... it's lossless!", is the typical reply they give afterwards. Not saying you didn't do a comparison, just a wee bit skeptical about the results.


Where did I say I couldn't hear the difference? Nice bit of elitism there, by the way, with that "us" <> "you" bit. Also, points for getting that "limitations" insult in there so casually. And you totally skirted the issue of already published studies into lossy/lossless blind comparisons.

You're accusing me of elitism, lmfao. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by pteittinen
Certainly. Most consumers couldn't tell the difference, however.



I can see you just want to be combatative. So simple answers for you. No the comparisons were not done in a anechoic chamber and I'm sure it wasn't a "proper" test to satisfy your needs. However satisfying your needs isn't something I was going for ;) As for what movies and if the subjects were told which was which, read back a few posts (hint: you quoted part of the post that contains the answers).

Is it me or are the only Chinese players that are showing up Blu Ray????

I wonder if even the Chinese have bailed on HD DVD. If the Chinese balk at the low margins Toshiba seems happy with, we may never see a Chinese HD DVD player..


The Chinese will not drop the HD DVD at least for their interior market. No region coding and easier to copy. Why would they drop that? To have their disk manufactured by Sony?

You're accusing me of elitism, lmfao. Get over yourself. :rolleyes:
Well, what on earth is this then:
If you can't tell the difference between the DD and Lossless tracks I certainly will not argue it, after all everbody has their limitations. Plenty of us here at AVS can and enjoy the difference. For us it is quite nice.
Emphasis mine. Maybe I simply misunderstood, dunno, but that reads like pretty damn condescending.

No the comparisons were not done in a anechoic chamber and I'm sure it wasn't a "proper" test to satisfy your needs. However satisfying your needs isn't something I was going for ;) As for what movies and if the subjects were told which was which, read back a few posts (hint: you quoted part of the post that contains the answers).
You probably added the titles after I had read the post initially, as I didn't notice the titles earlier.

Anyhoo, no, I'm not being combatative - it's not my needs your testing conditions are supposed to satisfy, after all. Ever heard of 'Scientific method'? Full disclosure, scrutiny by peers, repeatable results etc. Your test results exist in a bubble and are valid only there; i.e. they can't be used to determine the listening experiences of people in general.

And that was my point in the first place: various studies have shown that people in general are unable to tell the difference between compressed (depending on the quality of the compression, naturally) and uncompressed material. That is why most people are perfectly happy with what Xbox 360 is currently offering.

Oh, heh. I just realized that this whole debacle started from someone posting that X360 can only output Dolby Digital. My reply was to correct them that it can also do DTS and WMA Pro.

I can see you just want to be combatative. So simple answers for you. No the comparisons were not done in a anechoic chamber and I'm sure it wasn't a "proper" test to satisfy your needs. However satisfying your needs isn't something I was going for ;)

he's not at all being combative, but you seem quite defensive (and condescending, again, with the thinly veiled jabs and emoticons).

Well, what on earth is this then:

I thought I was pretty clear the first time. Some people can here the difference some can't. That has nothing to do with elitism, just simple facts. I certainly don't think less of somebody if they don't notice the difference.

Originally Posted by briankmonkey
If you can't tell the difference between the DD and Lossless tracks I certainly will not argue it, after all everbody has their limitations. Plenty of us here at AVS can and enjoy the difference. For us it is quite nice.

Emphasis mine. Maybe I simply misunderstood, dunno, but that reads like pretty damn condescending.

You probably added the titles after I had read the post initially, as I didn't notice the titles earlier.

It was in no way meant to be condescending. Possibly did see before the edit, I did it right after the initial post. Just like I edited my post and removed the "get over yourself" as I simply shouldn't had it to begin with. Just a bit surprised to read your "elitist" comment after your response to CraigW which can be seen as elitist as well. Obviously we disagree which is fine by me.

Anyhoo, no, I'm not being combatative - it's not my needs your testing conditions are supposed to satisfy, after all. Ever heard of 'Scientific method'? Full disclosure, scrutiny by peers, repeatable results etc. Your test results exist in a bubble and are valid only there; i.e. they can't be used to determine the listening experiences of people in general.

And that was my point in the first place: various studies have shown that people in general are unable to tell the difference between compressed (depending on the quality of the compression, naturally) and uncompressed material. That is why most people are perfectly happy with what Xbox 360 is currently offering.

Oh, heh. I just realized that this whole debacle started from someone posting that X360 can only output Dolby Digital. My reply was to correct them that it can also do DTS and WMA Pro.

Well, your tone came off that way. It seems we've both misread each other. My apologies. :) Yes, I've heard of "scientific method", who hasn't? lol edit: FYI, I didn't use the scientific method for a single person to agree that the blu-ray version of a film looks better than the DVD version either. :cool:

Honestly the study's are what they are and that is fine. I have no way of knowing if The Prestige/Black Hawk Down, etc use Dolby Digital to their potential (or Lossless for that matter. But it is clear to my ears that the lossless track is better sounding, easily noticable to others that I have auditioned it for as well. Is it possible the DD could have been made better than what they offered? I'm sure it may be possible, just like every other track on any other DVD, blu-ray, HD-DVD disc. I also believe the lossless could have been made better as well. I'd have a hard time believing any of them are ever "perfect", after all they are mixed and master by humans which no two would do the exact same job to begin with.

edit: I have no doubts many are fine with the 360's abilities. I simply desire for more after having experienced better. Many are still happy with DVD even after having enjoying blu-ray or HD-DVD, all the better for their wallet book.

Just a bit surprised to read your "elitist" comment after your response to CraigW which can be seen as elitist as well.
Oh. I was simply repeating what the studies have shown, that's all. I don't see how that could be seen as elitist, but OK, s*** happens.

It seems we've both misread each other.
Not for the first time, either. Sorry buddy.

FYI, I didn't use the scientific method for a single person to agree that the blu-ray version of a film looks better than the DVD version either. :cool:
Heh. Funnily enough, a study could be done (and probably has been) about at what distance/screen size the difference becomes noticeable.

But it is clear to my ears that the lossless track is better sounding, easily noticable to others that I have auditioned it for as well.
I upgraded most of my gear to lossless when these new formats arrived (and bought the amps too early, of course :( ) and I can hear the difference between, say, DD @640kbps and lossless/uncompressed. Having said that, I'm honest with myself and able to admit that I hear the difference partly because I know which one is playing :D

Many are still happy with DVD even after having enjoying blu-ray or HD-DVD, all the better for their wallet book.
Indeed - too bad that doesn't bode well for the survival or either format :(

Oh. I was simply repeating what the studies have shown, that's all. I don't see how that could be seen as elitist, but OK, s*** happens.


Not for the first time, either. Sorry buddy.


Heh. Funnily enough, a study could be done (and probably has been) about at what distance/screen size the difference becomes noticeable.


I upgraded most of my gear to lossless when these new formats arrived (and bought the amps too early, of course :( ) and I can hear the difference between, say, DD @640kbps and lossless/uncompressed. Having said that, I'm honest with myself and able to admit that I hear the difference partly because I know which one is playing :D


Indeed - too bad that doesn't bode well for the survival or either format :(

hah, same here. Quite often I'm joking around and people take it the wrong way. What to do :)

Well, here is hoping to the best for HD media in that they both don't go the way of SACD/DVD-A. I don't think that will happen though, people are adopting HDTV's at a very good rate.

Take care,
B