I am just getting into the Hi-def market and need a little bit of help. I am a current Direct TV customer and planned to upgrade through with them. I would like a Hi-Def TiVo and 3 standard receivers. They have great upgrades for new customers but not for existing customers.

Today I received a Dish network ad that seems to offer a pretty good deal through godish.com From what I can read it looks like: a free upgrade to the new HD/DVR in 2 rooms. 3 months of Stars(HBO sucks) plus a $100 sign up bonus.

I need the Golf channel, so that pretty much means I need their America's Top 250 for $42.99 instead of $52.99 for 10 months (another $100 off??) Dish also gives the local channels in HD for an additional $5. How does that compare to Direct TV??

My question is: Is dish network just as good as Direct TV? Are their drawbacks compared to dish? I notice that many of the threads deal with either cable to DirectTV. I would hate to change for a "good deal" and later be upset because I dont like dish.

Any help is appreciated.

You might also want to ask your question on this sites sister site, www.dbstalk.com which is more DBS centric.

First of all, D* doesn't sell HD Tivo's anymore, they sell their own box, the HR20. This box, and the non-DVR H20 are needed to receive the new MPEG4 HD channels due to be activated this September and any local HD channels that may be available at your location. Also D* is know for dealing with existing customers on deals, the best way to see if they'll do anything for you is to call D* and at the first prompt say cancel service, which gets you to the retention department, which can make the deals. Just be nice and honest with them, saying you don't want to pay $199 or $299 for a HD DVR since your cable company doesn't make you pay for one or Dish which will also give you one for no upfront charge. Lots of folks at DBSTalk have done this and gotten a good deal, others haven't, YMMV. Good luck.

Unfortunately for consumers, HD programming and reception is an area that will undergo a huge amount of change over the next 12 months. It looks like the Beijing Olympics in summer 2008 will be the catalyst for a lot of fence sitters to buy increasingly affordable HD TVs. Indications are that lots of channels will be scrambling to be HD in Fall 2008.

Currently, Dish Network has more HD channels and better HD picture quality than DirecTV. However, both DirecTV and Dish Network are soon to launch new satellites to provide more bandwidth for the coming new HD channels. As a result, the situation could be entirely different 3 or 6 or 12 or 15 months from now. Meaning that one or another service may be better or worse for HD in the future, it is impossible to say now. Although both services claim to be totally committed to providing all the HD channels out there...

Personally, I have Dish and their HD-DVR and I find the service to be just fine. Note that Dish does not have "NFL Sunday Ticket" or "MLB Extra Innings" - meaning the special packages that cost roughly $200 each.

If you have a specific question, I agree that www.dbstalk.com is a good place for that.

PS My reading is that you don't see a lot of Dish customers posting here, due to political reasons that are too long and irrelevant to mention, and that would not affect you as a customer.

I switched to Dish because of the HD programing, Since DTV is launching their Satellite soon, I will probably switch back. Better customer service and your bills will be a little cheaper.

Switched to Dish from 10 years with Direct tv. Better everything. VIP 622 DVR is a nice piece of equipment.

I had been a DT subscriber for over 10 years, but switched to Dish in March and I am 99% sure I will never go back to DT. Can't tell you how tired I got seeing great programing offers being made for "new customers only" When I finally made the switch I spent an hour with a CSR whose only alternative to taking the DISH top 100 package was DT family plan ( check out the channel dif there ) and free SHO for 3 months. As much as I hate cable I'd go to them before DT.

Switched to Dish from 10 years with Direct tv. Better everything. VIP 622 DVR is a nice piece of equipment.

Exact same here, although I may have had DirecTV for 11 or 12 years before switching to Dish. I wouldn't be against switching back if DirecTV added 100 HD channels and Dish couldn't compare, but I don't see it happening.

The two rivals (as Mac/PC, nvidia/ati, etc/etc) are always going to leapfrog one another. Right now I'm happy with Dish and their awesome vip622. Next year is next year, five year from now, who knows?

This topic again... :rolleyes:

Anyways, at this point (6 monthes from EOY), I would just wait it out and see if D* finally delivers, or if E* demonstrates the proven ability to keep up if they do. Regardless of all the fanboy rhetoric that pollutes this board, I would not make a decision based on one providers over-hyped press releases or anothers last minute executive decisions. Wait a few monthes, and choose based on content, not hype. Thats what I will be doing, and thats what I've always done. Good Timing and timely decision making is whats important at this juncture. Once you invest the money, you want to be doing more HD watching than HD waiting regardless of who promises what...

Thanks for all of you input. I didnt want to bring up an old topic again (my search was just too broad) but I did need to know if I would be losing something if I swithced to Dish. I would rather not pay a huge upgrade fee for an HD-DVR that DTV wants me to pay as an existing customer. If Dish is in the same ballpark as Direct, then I think I can save $$ by using the "new customer incentives" that both provide.

I had been a DT subscriber for over 10 years, but switched to Dish in March and I am 99% sure I will never go back to DT. Can't tell you how tired I got seeing great programing offers being made for "new customers only" When I finally made the switch I spent an hour with a CSR whose only alternative to taking the DISH top 100 package was DT family plan ( check out the channel dif there ) and free SHO for 3 months. As much as I hate cable I'd go to them before DT.

Trust me Dish is the same way on offers to new customers vs. existing. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately for consumers, HD programming and reception is an area that will undergo a huge amount of change over the next 12 months. It looks like the Beijing Olympics in summer 2008 will be the catalyst for a lot of fence sitters to buy increasingly affordable HD TVs. Indications are that lots of channels will be scrambling to be HD in Fall 2008.

Currently, Dish Network has more HD channels and better HD picture quality than DirecTV. However, both DirecTV and Dish Network are soon to launch new satellites to provide more bandwidth for the coming new HD channels. As a result, the situation could be entirely different 3 or 6 or 12 or 15 months from now. Meaning that one or another service may be better or worse for HD in the future, it is impossible to say now. Although both services claim to be totally committed to providing all the HD channels out there...

Personally, I have Dish and their HD-DVR and I find the service to be just fine. Note that Dish does not have "NFL Sunday Ticket" or "MLB Extra Innings" - meaning the special packages that cost roughly $200 each.

If you have a specific question, I agree that www.dbstalk.com is a good place for that.

PS My reading is that you don't see a lot of Dish customers posting here, due to political reasons that are too long and irrelevant to mention, and that would not affect you as a customer.

I've had DTV for about 12 years now because of the Sunday Ticket NFL. But the nightmare experience with the HR20 has caused me to rethink my situation. It's wasn't so much the problems with the HR20, it was the denial of problems by DTV and pals. If you post(ed) something even remotely negative about the HR20 at dbstalk.com, you were(are) viciously attacked by a weird, extremist HR20 crowd. Even the moderator will interrupt the posts and admonish you. It's creepy.

Thanks for all of you input. I didnt want to bring up an old topic again (my search was just too broad) but I did need to know if I would be losing something if I swithced to Dish. I would rather not pay a huge upgrade fee for an HD-DVR that DTV wants me to pay as an existing customer. If Dish is in the same ballpark as Direct, then I think I can save $$ by using the "new customer incentives" that both provide.


Did you try talking to the retention department as I suggested earlier? As I said, some folks have been able to get upgraded for the MPEG4 dish and DVR for anywhere from free to $99, as long as their account is in good standing and they aren't subscibing to the minimual package. Even most folks can get the HR20 and the dish for $199 via the online account access in the upgrade equipment section.

Trust me Dish is the same way on offers to new customers vs. existing. :rolleyes:

Thats why its smart to switch and switch often... :rolleyes:

Thats why its smart to switch and switch often... :rolleyes:

Yup, at our house we have site and wiring ready for E*, D* and Comcast over the last four years, at the time of switch all the installer had to do was replace the dish and switches, and put the receivers in the right places. It simply does not pay to be a loyal customer any more, sad but true.

My advice is always talk to the retention department, but be prepared to switch if they don't buy your story and call you bluff. So do your homework, talk to the rival providers and find out what deals they have and what equipment will fit you and how soon they can get you installed, before ever calling your current provider's retention department. After all you are trying to cancel your service, so be prepared to cancel if they don't blink.

But be courteous to the person on the phone, don't take it personal. That person does not make a lot to listen to people's bitching all day, if you break the rank he/she might be more inclined to offer you the best deal possible.

Thats why its smart to switch and switch often... :rolleyes:

That's why D* and E* have the commitment period ;)

Thanks for all of you input. I didnt want to bring up an old topic again (my search was just too broad) but I did need to know if I would be losing something if I swithced to Dish. I would rather not pay a huge upgrade fee for an HD-DVR that DTV wants me to pay as an existing customer. If Dish is in the same ballpark as Direct, then I think I can save $$ by using the "new customer incentives" that both provide.

I am thankful for your post. This is THE reason I signed up on avsforums, to find out. I am using cableone, and well, they suck. I pay more than my parents do, with Dish Network, and they have the HD version. So, after my next paycheck, and reading this thread, I will be signing up with Dish Network. I was leaning that direction, but I wasn't sure if there were any gotchas. It seems that Dish Network is the place to be right now. I figure It will sign an 18 month contract, and see how things sit, then.

Trust me Dish is the same way on offers to new customers vs. existing. :rolleyes:
I am not sure what DirecTV offers to existing customers (I am not one).

However, Dish does have offers for existing customers.

Currently, existing customers can get the "Dishin It Up" promotion to get an HD-DVR for $149 and then get a $50 credit on their programming bill, i.e. $100 final cost. They also get a $10 credit every month for 10 months, the first time that they sign up for Dish-HD package. Both credits require sending in a rebate form (you can do both on one form). The promotion can also be used for the 2-tuner HD non-DVR receiver (but I can't imagine why someone would not want to be able to at least pause what they are watching).

That's why D* and E* have the commitment period ;)

Read what I said earlier about timely decision making, etc... ;) ;)

Wow I'm amazed at all the pro dish talk here. Directv is about to light up that sat in a couple months that will literally open the flood gates for HD. I know the whole HD lite stuff has hurt them but come on we are talking about a major SAt event. Not to mention the fact if Dish Networks appeal fails DVR service will be interrupted unless E* pays Tivo what they owe and works out a license.

Wow I'm amazed at all the pro dish talk here..

Not Pro-Dish, Not Anti-D*

Its Anti-Hype, Anti-Fanboy rah-rah, Pro-quality, and Pro-freedom of choice talk here.

Directv is about to light up that sat in a couple months .

But hasn't yet. And will be re-evaluated thoroughly once again based on the final deliverable, not the bogus hype that precedes it.

that will literally open the flood gates for HD.

...IF it lives up to its hype. Remember, if half those 100 channels are PPV, Sports Packs, and mirrored E/W coast feeds, it will be underwhelming. Granted they've been touting enough about 'agreements in principle' (whatever that means) to indicate that this will not be the case, but like I said, I will need to re-evaluate the final deliverable.

I know the whole HD lite stuff has hurt them but come on we are talking about a major SAt event.

And Wrestlemania is a major sports event. Like I said, how Major depends on the final deliverable.

Not to mention the fact if Dish Networks appeal fails DVR service will be interrupted unless E* pays Tivo what they owe and works out a license.

I've gotten into flamewars with folks on this before. Its not going to happen. Its being litigated out of exististance.

Did you try talking to the retention department as I suggested earlier? As I said, some folks have been able to get upgraded for the MPEG4 dish and DVR for anywhere from free to $99, as long as their account is in good standing and they aren't subscibing to the minimual package. Even most folks can get the HR20 and the dish for $199 via the online account access in the upgrade equipment section.
I just got off the phone with the retention department. I said that Dish will give me a free DVR and 3 months of free HBO (Starz). She said I can give you the "new customer" deal for $199; I said that is still $200 more than free. She ended up going down to $99 and gave me 3 months of Starz for free.

If she didnt lie to me, she says that D* gives locals in HD for free; I noticed that Dish charges $5 a month for locals. I can live with my "deal" and hope that the new HR20 receiver isnt too much of a hassle (dont tell that other forum I said that). I thank all of the members of this forum for contributing to this thread...A great help.

D* charges $5 for SD locals,but if you don't subscribe then you do not get any HD guide info for locals. So they aren't charging for HD locals in reality.

D* charges $5 for SD locals,but if you don't subscribe then you do not get any HD guide info for locals. So they aren't charging for HD locals in reality.

Local channels in SD, if available, are included in the base price for their packages, there is no extra charge. If locals are not available then you get a $3.00 per month credit.

I just got off the phone with the retention department. I said that Dish will give me a free DVR and 3 months of free HBO (Starz). She said I can give you the "new customer" deal for $199; I said that is still $200 more than free. She ended up going down to $99 and gave me 3 months of Starz for free.

If she didnt lie to me, she says that D* gives locals in HD for free; I noticed that Dish charges $5 a month for locals. I can live with my "deal" and hope that the new HR20 receiver isnt too much of a hassle (dont tell that other forum I said that). I thank all of the members of this forum for contributing to this thread...A great help.

Glad you got a deal you can live with, sorry you didn't get something better out of them.

You didn't mention if they include the Ka/Ku dish upgrade to go with the HR20, if not call them back since it should be included in that upgrade price. As for the locals, go to http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packProg/localChannels.jsp?assetId=900018 and plug in your zip code to see if it show you getting HD locals and if so which ones.

And if you like living on the Cutting Edge, you might want to go over to www.dbstalk.com and check out the Cutting Edge section, at selected times you can download new software for the HR20 before it goes to national distrubution and try out new features and fixes. Also at DBSTalk there's info on how to set up your home network, if you have one, so you can share MP3's and JPEG's from a PC and view them via the HR20 on your TV, kind of neat. Enjoy and good luck.

Not Pro-Dish, Not Anti-D*

Its Anti-Hype, Anti-Fanboy rah-rah, Pro-quality, and Pro-freedom of choice talk here. Sure it is.



But hasn't yet. And will be re-evaluated thoroughly once again based on the final deliverable, not the bogus hype that precedes it.



...IF it lives up to its hype. Remember, if half those 100 channels are PPV, Sports Packs, and mirrored E/W coast feeds, it will be underwhelming. Granted they've been touting enough about 'agreements in principle' (whatever that means) to indicate that this will not be the case, but like I said, I will need to re-evaluate the final deliverable.


And Wrestlemania is a major sports event. Like I said, how Major depends on the final deliverable. I think you take hanging out at the E* section at DBS talk and listen to your friends has blurred your point of view. You calling carriage agreements so called agreements now. We know tons of HD channels are going to be on in september for D* unless the rocket blows up. Ya it could happened but so could any sat E* launches in a year or two. Now do I expect all channels promised to be up on day one? No. However do I think we will have several more HBO's,Starz,Cinemax,ESPNNEWS, and many others in short order? Yes.



I've gotten into flamewars with folks on this before. Its not going to happen. Its being litigated out of exististance.
I think we had a few. Fact E* has been found guilty of patent infringement . Fact E* has been order to turn off all infringing DVRs, Fact if their appeal fails they will either have to pay Tivo and work out a licence or have their DVR's turned off. Thats the situation all those are facts not points of views. BTW the patent appeal case will most likely be done by Nov or so. I have nothing against E* except the trying to screw tivo part. I think they offer a very good service and they have beeen the HD leader for a year or so now. However everybody in this forum knows thats about to change unless that rocket goes boom. So my advice to the OP is read in this forum and find out the date the rocket launches. It's either early or mid july and if it doesn't blow up get D* or rather stay with D*.

Speculation about if the sat makes it or not doesn't erase 3 ownership changes and poor equipment at DTV. I was with DTV for over 10 years and they are in a constant state of denial of ANY problems with service or equipment.

Speculation about if the sat makes it or not doesn't erase 3 ownership changes and poor equipment at DTV. I was with DTV for over 10 years and they are in a constant state of denial of ANY problems with service or equipment.

We all have our reasons for liking or disliking each provider. For me I stayed with D* after they announced the move away from tivo because of this new sat and the fact D* offered me free stuff every time I called to complain or to turn off my service. I have so far gotten over 500$ in programing credits a SD Tivo, a R15(I wish they would take this thing back lol) and have been offered two HR20's and a new Sat when I feel like moving over for the new channels come september. I can honestly say if their customer service hadn't been so good I would have left for cable and a Series 3 tivo. The best advice I can give is if your unhappy let them know and make sure retention here's you beef because Apo from india won't care.

Sure it is.

Glad you see it my way...you are well on your path to a brighter future. :D

I think you take hanging out at the E* section at DBS talk and listen to your friends has blurred your point of view. *.

Whoops...maybe not... :D

You calling carriage agreements so called agreements now.

Please define the term "agreements in principle" for all the rest of us unenlightened lost souls out there who just wish to see it before we believe it?

We know tons of HD channels are going to be on in september for D* unless the rocket blows up. Ya it could happened but so could any sat E* launches in a year or two. Now do I expect all channels promised to be up on day one? No. However do I think we will have several more HBO's,Starz,Cinemax,ESPNNEWS, and many others in short order? Yes.

And honestly, I hope they do...I WANT THEM TOO! :D I'm not an E* or D* religions fanatic like most folks around here. I believe in choice...switch and switch often....

When D* announced their big 100 HD channel plan, I took one look at E*'s 30 channels and thought, "Cool! I've got time to check it out!" lol...and dropped D* just like that while many clung to D* like a religion. Waiting for the 100 channels like a prophecy...well congrats if it comes, and good luck if its worth it. But at the end of the day it comes down to this simple FACT...

Next year, we may well be watching the same 100 channels, but over the past year I've been watching 30 channels while you've been paying the same money and just reading press releases. Now...who's the dumb one? :D :D :D


I think we had a few.

We haven't...if we did, you'd know enough to be quiet... :p

Fact E* has been found guilty of patent infringement .

Fact...appealled

I Fact E* has been order to turn off all infringing DVRs,

Fact...overturned...

Fact if their appeal fails they will either have to pay Tivo and work out a licence or have their DVR's turned off.

FACT...you said 'IF'...and that very word holds all the difference right there...

Thats the situation all those are facts not points of views. BTW the patent appeal case will most likely be done by Nov or so.

It will more than likely be litigated out of existance, unless Tivo's investors foot the bill or they get some strong political backing behind the scenes. Which of thats the case, good for them...but litigation such as this can bankrupt a company, and thats the games financially stronger companies like E* play to win these things. Not fair, not right...but a sad FACT.

I have nothing against E* except the trying to screw tivo part.

Then you must have a lot of problems with a lot of companies who do the same thing. Lord knows I do. In case you haven't figured it out by now, I couldn't give a care how D*, E* OR Tivo runs their business (I sold my Tivo stock BTW), they mean nothing to me. Give me my HD, be it either 30 channels now or 100 channels later...I do not care. But don't expect me to get turned on by hype. Its meaningless until theirs actually something to see...

I think they offer a very good service and they have beeen the HD leader for a year or so now. However everybody in this forum knows thats about to change unless that rocket goes boom.

So whats you point in this conversation regarding my 'switch and switch often' and 'don't believe it until you see it' policies? Nobody knows anything, we just know what we read...we will know if a few monthes. Be patient...D*'s been using hype as smoke and mirrors for a while now, so excuse my skepticism. But like I said, if they do pull it off, we will both be watching 100 channels, but right now I'm watching 30 and your not. So be it...

So my advice to the OP is read in this forum and find out the date the rocket launches. It's either early or mid july and if it doesn't blow up get D* or rather stay with D*.

So you basically gave him the same advice I did...wait it out...how ironic...

:D

Speculation about if the sat makes it or not doesn't erase 3 ownership changes and poor equipment at DTV. I was with DTV for over 10 years and they are in a constant state of denial of ANY problems with service or equipment.
AVS Abbreviations

DTV = Digital TV, as in over the air.

D* = DirecTV

E* = Echostar, owner of Dish Network

and newly coined:
C* = Comcast

T* = Time Warner Cable

Vampz26 it's amazing how for an un biased person you sure sound like a fan boy. You claim to have nothing against D* yet you rail against their claims of HD channels that are coming. You seem to go nuts over the facts of the Tivo case. BTW nothing has been overturned. The court is simply hearing the appeal before letting the order go into effect. If tivo wins and IMHO they will then those DVR's go off unless something license wise is worked out.

Tivo is the one who sued E* remember? Tivo is the one owed over 100$ million from E*. Tivo is the one who will keep going after this case even after this appeal. The next move will be for triple damages after the appeal fails from E*. So I don't think tivo is running in fear for having to be in court. BTW we have argued over this before because I remember about you stating how you sold your tivo stalk. I guess that was smart. I mean tivo didn't just win a patent suit or anything that they could take to other CE manufactures and force license fee's did they?

So in closing I'm glad you enjoy your voom channels. I've enjoyed my HD tivo for as long as I can come september when I will move to the HR20.

I'm Stuck with T*
LoL;)

Vampz26 it's amazing how for an un biased person you sure sound like a fan boy. ..

Unbiased regarding D* or E*. But I do have a certain distaste for fanboy rah-rah crap. So you did pick up the right vibe, but from the wrong source. And, of course, were rightfully offended as you should be.

You claim to have nothing against D* yet you rail against their claims of HD channels that are coming..

And rightfully so! I subbed to D* for years. I was promised new HD channels when they WERE available, and I got the same networks I was already receiving via OTA. Underwhelmed....

I was told there would be 100 new HD channels last year! There was much rejoicing...then...4 locals in 25 markets...none I could see or care about...

I've been underwhemed twice. I expect to be underwhelmed again. If not, I will truly be grateful. Because that would mean the great D* would not be deceiving thier HD consumer and it would be safe to return to them if the product they are indeed truly offering is worth it...

You seem to go nuts over the facts of the Tivo case. BTW nothing has been overturned. The court is simply hearing the appeal before letting the order go into effect. If tivo wins and IMHO they will then those DVR's go off unless something license wise is worked out..

The ordered 'DVR shutoff' date was 'overturned' and never happened.

How many patent cases have you witnessed or been part of? If so, how did they end?

Tivo is the one who sued E* remember? Tivo is the one owed over 100$ million from E*. Tivo is the one who will keep going after this case even after this appeal. The next move will be for triple damages after the appeal fails from E*. So I don't think tivo is running in fear for having to be in court. BTW we have argued over this before because I remember about you stating how you sold your tivo stalk. I guess that was smart. I mean tivo didn't just win a patent suit or anything that they could take to other CE manufactures and force license fee's did they?

I guess it was smart...the stock went down quite a bit since I sold it at about 9 a share. I'll buy it back if it seems worth it... :rolleyes:

Like I said...how many software patent cases have you witnessed or been part of? If so, how did they end?

It doesn't matter WHAT the damages are if E* never has to pay...unless there is some significant backing, either politically or financially, this thing will be litigated out of existance...


So in closing I'm glad you enjoy your voom channels. I've enjoyed my HD tivo for as long as I can come september when I will more to the HR20. BTW people don't shake in fear of you. You just try to bully people and most people don't care enough about you to spend time arguing with you. .

Bullying? No...just make sure you have your facts actually straight, then we can talk. Hype and speculation don't count with me. Most of my forward looking statements come from experience. I readlily admit they could be wrong, but don't discount for a minute that they could be right.

I've did it because I get sick of seeing people threaten to start a flame war because they can't have a civilized discussion. .

Who has threatened? I'm just saying flamewars have happened...you started the flame war! Not me...

And for the record, this was a civilized discussion until you posted the personal remarked below...

I suggest you read this article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_Syndrome you might find it enlightening. Now to avoid a flame war I'm letting you know I won't be responding to any of your posts no matter how juvenal they are.

I would suspect you had the same diagnosis for your college professors.

Now understand this:
1) you do not know me

2) I can more than back up my credentials to those that do

3) I will gladly share these personal and professional credentials with the mods of this forum if needed for the executive backing to protect myself from the slander from folks like you. I've got no problem with that

And lastly...

You don't go by the initials RBH in other forums do you? You sound like some other guy I know. Big on hyperlinks, short on the facts or how to interpret them...

I was told there would be 100 new HD channels last year! There was much rejoicing...then...4 locals in 25 markets...none I could see or care about...

I've been underwhemed twice. I expect to be underwhelmed again. If not, I will truly be grateful. Because that would mean the great D* would not be deceiving thier HD consumer and it would be safe to return to them if the product they are indeed truly offering is worth it...


So Ruppert M. made a comment in a interview and now he promised you 100 HD channels.



The ordered 'DVR shutoff' date was 'overturned' and never happened.

How many patent cases have you witnessed or been part of? If so, how did they end? First it was not overturned it was put on hold pending appeal. I object to the wording of overturned in your posts. There is still a order waiting to take effect pending appeal. Second a case off the top of my head Immersion sued Sony and won PS3=no rumble, and they just got PAID!

Bullying? No...just make sure you have your facts actually straight, then we can talk.
Sorry but these two quotes are what I'm talking about. In response to my post.
I've gotten into flamewars with folks on this before. Its not going to happen. Its being litigated out of exististance. To me this said Don't argue my point unless you want me to attack you.
We haven't...if we did, you'd know enough to be quiet...

This to me reads I'm a big bad forum poster and I get what I want.


Hype and speculation don't count with me. Most of my forward looking statements come from experience. I readlily admit they could be wrong, but don't discount for a minute that they could be right. Sure but even the mod Ken H has said your wrong they have the capacity to have every HD channel out there come september. What does it matter if it 100,150, or 75 if they carry everything thats available ?







I would suspect you had the same diagnosis for your college professors.

Now understand this:
1) you do not know me

2) I can more than back up my credentials to those that do

3) I will gladly share these personal and professional credentials with the mods of this forum if needed for the executive backing to protect myself from the slander from folks like you. I've got no problem with that

And lastly...

You don't go by the initials RBH in other forums do you? You sound like some other guy I know. Big on hyperlinks, short on the facts or how to interpret them... Got no clue about the RBU stuff, but don't be saying I'm short on the facts for somebody calling you out on the mis information you have put out. Also note I called you know names simply hyper linked to article that you might honestly find interesting. You pass yourself off as a un caring E* sub who will jump ship at any time. Yet you often made derogatory comments about ST fans and the average D* sub on this forum. Lets face it your a E* sub and fan and you don't like D* all that mutch. You get into flame wars with people over the Tivo case to protect your favorite provider E*. I don't know you and I don't know you credentials, but I do read the board from time to time. You shouldn't threaten people just because they disagree with you.

Vamp I wish you well, and I'm sure I'm not 100% guilt free in this type of stuff, but to many people suffer to what I linked to and it leads to allot of forum posters who are @$*** and it leads to flame wars and bullying .

So Ruppert M. made a comment in a interview and now he promised you 100 HD channels.

Rupert M. makes a lot of 'comments'. So does Charlie...hence...

I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT!

...am I clear now? It doesn't matter what they say...its what I SEE! Get it?!?

First it was not overturned it was put on hold pending appeal. I object to the wording of overturned in your posts.

Whoops...the correct word is "Blocked" injunction, not 'overturned'...congrats to you for turning a small two word comment into a very minor victory. :D

There is still a order waiting to take effect pending appeal. Second a case off the top of my head Immersion sued Sony and won PS3=no rumble, and they just got PAID!

Reality check...

Sony / Immersion is a hardware patent...thats one thing.

Tivo isn't even that! Its a process patent by which read and writes to a hard drive can be executed effectively to manage time-shifting of realtime digital video data! A process that is implemented in thier software. Its a patent that is MUCH harder to defend and prove. Much harder. Feel free to find other examples.

Sorry but these two quotes are what I'm talking about. In response to my post. To me this said Don't argue my point unless you want me to attack you.
This to me reads I'm a big bad forum poster and I get what I want.

"To me this said "... (this statement alone is a method to madness)

All it was trying to way was that I've been thru this before, and this is how it is...period, and If you read my case before, you wouldn't bother going thru it again. period. I was trying to discourage another anti-fanboy flamewar not start one! sheez...Don't personalize it.


Sure but even the mod Ken H has said your wrong they have the capacity to have every HD channel out there come september. What does it matter if it 100,150, or 75 if they carry everything thats available ?

It doesn't matter until they do...thats my only point....

I'm watching 30 channels now...not waiting for 100, get it?

...and as an ex- D* sub they've got more to prove than just good marketing...


Got no clue about the RBU stuff, but don't be saying I'm short on the facts for somebody calling you out on the mis information you have put out. Also note I called you know names simply hyper linked to article that you might honestly find interesting. You pass yourself off as a un caring E* sub who will jump ship at any time. Yet you often made derogatory comments about ST fans and the average D* sub on this forum. Lets face it your a E* sub and fan and you don't like D* all that mutch. You get into flame wars with people over the Tivo case to protect your favorite provider E*. I don't know you and I don't know you credentials, but I do read the board from time to time. You shouldn't threaten people just because they disagree with you.

1) I AM an uncaring E* sub who will only jump ship when its the RIGHT time.

2) As far as ST subs go, anyone who's trying to pass D* off the to as the end all be all of human existance on the basis of an overpriced football package for a small fraction of the year is not going to get a lot of respect from me. If they are happy, thats fine...but there is much more to the world than football.

3) Not D* subs...D*vangelists. I will never understand this religious dedication people have to D* on the basis of a year long promise and delivering nothing in the interim. I cancelled and waited...the smart thing. Why pay until you can really enjoy? Sitting and waiting and defending the decision doesn't make sense.

4) most Tivo/Echostar posts here are people doing more rah-rah speech for D*. But who can blame them. They were frustrated and needed any boost. So when tehy post their infantile little gloats I shoot them down with reality. the reality that its more than likely not going to happen. Don't look at me, consider the initial source...

...and I wasn't threatening anyone...I was saying, been there, done that...please don't bother me with this nonsense again...but you did anyway...taking it personal when it wasn't...


Vamp I wish you well, and I'm sure I'm not 100% guilt free in this type of stuff, but to many people suffer to what I linked to and it leads to allot of forum posters who are @$*** and it leads to flame wars and bullying .

I'm sure it does. When you figure out a way to separate the wheat from the chaff than let me know. Until then....lets not cast shadows of doubt...many of us really do know what we are talking about...

Good lord, children. Put the waterguns down.

Good lord, children. Put the waterguns down.

But Pa! He started it! :D :D :D :D :D

E* is also in "contract discussions" for the new national HDs coming this fall, they said they will add 6 to 8 new ones by the end of the year, which are pretty much what will be available then, a lot of new ones will come next year, by then both D* and E* will have new sats up for MPEG4 and the additional new HDs to be available.

The argument about the Tivo patent fight is a non-issue for our end users. E* will not lose the DVR functions, they bought more than enough time to make their new DVRs to go around the Tivo patent, if that is even needed in the end.

Now this thread was started by an existing D* sub, and he appeared happy with what D* had offered him lately, and that was what we have been saying all along.

If you will be new to D* or E*, then look at the facts and know the difference between D* and E*, make up your own mind without much regard to the "flame wars."

Good lord, children. Put the waterguns down.
LoL
;)