I've been pushing for this for some time, but now maybe someone at Universal will give this some serious thought. Earth to Universal!

If the HD DVD studios released ALL their movies on combo discs at DVD prices then all rental outlets are taken out of the equation when it comes to accessibility. It saves shelf space, costs no more and is totally accessible. In addition it would be in your face cheap advertising for HD DVD plus it gives an incentive to any cusatomer purchasing the DVD to buy into HD DVD in the future. Does HD DVD actually want to be successful? If so, then start ramming HD DVD down peoples' throats like Sony does with BD!

Cheers,

Grant

I dont understand what the big deal is with the whole BB thing. You can STILL rent HD DVD's in 250 stores as well online.

Chirs

I've been pushing for this for some time, but now maybe someone at Universal will give this some serious thought. Earth to Universal!

If the HD DVD studios released ALL their movies on combo discs at DVD prices then all rental outlets are taken out of the equation when it comes to accessibility. It saves shelf space, costs no more and is totally accessible. In addition it would be in your face cheap advertising for HD DVD plus it gives an incentive to any cusatomer purchasing the DVD to buy into HD DVD in the future. Does HD DVD actually want to be successful? If so, then start ramming HD DVD down people's throats like Sony does with BD!

Cheers,

Grant

Well I question if they want to win. The pathetic showing at the big box stores with nothing on display for the past eight months indicates that the goal is not to win.

Art

I dont understand what the big deal is with the whole BB thing. You can STILL rent HD DVD's in 250 stores as well online.

Chirs
Agreed. I don't know why we need 100 threads on this subject. Its time to let it go already.
J

But then the studios would lose a ton on the manufacturing. They don't sell them at those high prices cause they can(which they could), they sell them at that price because it costs more to manufacture.

Well I question if they want to win. The pathetic showing at the big box stores with nothing on display for the past eight months indicates that the goal is not to win.

Art


The BDA has more money than Toshiba and more money than Microsoft is willing to part with. That said, they did buy off Circuit City. At least that's something. Considering how long CC held Toshiba responsible for the failure of Divx, I was quite surprised to see CC take in Toshiba's baby when Best Buy proved far too blue.

I dont understand what the big deal is with the whole BB thing. You can STILL rent HD DVD's in 250 stores as well online.

Chirs


Exactly, you still won't be able to rent any high def movies at the store near my house (BD or HD DVD). I asked yesterday...two months ago they were going to have HD DVD and BD and today, nothing.

I dont understand what the big deal is with the whole BB thing. You can STILL rent HD DVD's in 250 stores as well online.

Chirs

The main big deal is that people walking into hundreds and hundreds of BB B&M stores will see Blu Ray as the only hi-def disc available for rent. It is highly likely that this will drive Blu Ray sales vs. HD-DVD sales, further entrenching Blu Ray and crippling HD-DVD.

The main big deal is that people walking into hundreds and hundreds of BB B&M stores will see Blu Ray as the only hi-def disc available for rent. It is highly likely that this will drive Blu Ray sales vs. HD-DVD sales, further entrenching Blu Ray and crippling HD-DVD.

Until people purchase blu-ray players, they aren't going to care what blockbuster carries. It's not as though they're going to blockbuster to purchase blu-ray players. So unless blu-ray players start a lot more stand alone players, I see no reason to worry about hd-dvd's fate.

Until people purchase blu-ray players, they aren't going to care what blockbuster carries. It's not as though they're going to blockbuster to purchase blu-ray players. So unless blu-ray players start a lot more stand alone players, I see no reason to worry about hd-dvd's fate.
Exactly, it will be the same as when BB & Hollywood carried DVDs - nobody paid the slightest attention as players were still way to expensive.

They get the price under $200 & adoption will increase along with the interest.

At this point it's good PR but nothing else.

Until people purchase blu-ray players, they aren't going to care what blockbuster carries. It's not as though they're going to blockbuster to purchase blu-ray players. So unless blu-ray players start a lot more stand alone players, I see no reason to worry about hd-dvd's fate.

At the very least, its really good free advertising for BD. Gotta admit that!

I dont understand what the big deal is with the whole BB thing. You can STILL rent HD DVD's in 250 stores as well online.These 250 stores don't get new titles from now on.

These 250 stores don't get new titles from now on.

Proof? Link? Or just an offhand br fanclaim?

Until people purchase blu-ray players, they aren't going to care what blockbuster carries. It's not as though they're going to blockbuster to purchase blu-ray players. So unless blu-ray players start a lot more stand alone players, I see no reason to worry about hd-dvd's fate.


These people who go into BB's B&M stores and see only Blu Ray discs for rent, what kind of player do you think they'll buy this Christmas? IMO the tendency will be to purchase a player that can play the hundreds of discs they see available for rent.

It's percerption and perception is everything! One of the main T.V. networks in Canada had a news story stating that Blockbuster would be carrying only Blu-Ray - no DVD anymore! Wow, did they get this wrong.

Toshiba could allocate the DVD royalities it gets from Sony, Disney and Fox to help subsidize the HD DVD studios or just waive HD DVD royalities for awhile (MS could chip in here as well). :D

Here are the advantages:

1) Unlimited access to consumers and by consumers (can rent in local Village grocery store);
2) Incentive - buy HD DVD player later to watch your movies in HD;
3) Skew sales numbers like the PS3 did for player sales. Takes away a big BD PR advantage and renders sales figures basically meaningless; and
4) Takes away any decision by DVD vendors as to whether or not they will carry HD DVD (Sony can no longer influence such decisions) and expunges any PR advantage for BD.

HD DVD needs some innovative thinking and strategies - if not then Sony is simply going to slowly choke it to death. If Art is right and there's no real commitment to HD DVD then it should call it a day and let the rest of us move on.

Cheers,

Grant

These 250 stores don't get new titles from now on.

Even if this was true it doesnt matter. You CAN still rent on-line. Most people now do it online rather then going to the movie store anyway..

Chris

The main big deal is that people walking into hundreds and hundreds of BB B&M stores will see Blu Ray as the only hi-def disc available for rent. It is highly likely that this will drive Blu Ray sales vs. HD-DVD sales, further entrenching Blu Ray and crippling HD-DVD.

If people think that the average person is now going to run out and get a BR player just because BB is only carrying BR Disc are nuts.

Even at Xmas time if prices of BR player dont come down WAY down it still wont matter.

Here's an alternate idea which I think is better: The HD DVD supporting studios could release new movies in two formats:
1) Standard DVD.
2) Combo disc for $5 more.

The interesting aspect to this is that they could potentially sell these combo discs to people who don't even own an HD DVD player. Some might buy them by accident, some might buy them because they think "Oh, I'll be ready for the future when these high-def DVD players become more affordable."

FWIW, I think this idea would be a good one for Blu-ray studios to adopt as well. Is the combo disc concept not possible with Blu-ray?

Here's an alternate idea which I think is better: The HD DVD supporting studios could release new movies in two formats:
1) Standard DVD.
2) Combo disc for $5 more.

The interesting aspect to this is that they could potentially sell these combo discs to people who don't even own an HD DVD player. Some might buy them by accident, some might buy them because they think "Oh, I'll be ready for the future when these high-def DVD players become more affordable."

FWIW, I think this idea would be a good one for Blu-ray studios to adopt as well. Is the combo disc concept not possible with Blu-ray?

I say all or none.....why would I want to pay $5 more for something I might not benefit from for a year or more??? and at 299.99 the prices don't get much lower.... It all comes down to who can afford the $1500 TV....

If people think that the average person is now going to run out and get a BR player just because BB is only carrying BR Disc are nuts.

Even at Xmas time if prices of BR player dont come down WAY down it still wont matter.

No, I am not nuts. You are in denial. It's one of the early phases but will eventually lead to acceptance. You did not even read my post.

I say all or none.....why would I want to pay $5 more for something I might not benefit from for a year or more???Are you speaking as a hypothetical average consumer or as yourself (presumably an HD DVD owner)? If the latter, you're most likely already paying more than a $5 premium for the HD DVD-only counterpart to the SD version. The approach I recommend essentially creates a cost-sharing model where standard-def DVD player owners (who are much larger in number) help to subsidize early-adopter HD DVD owner's costs. Seems like a win-win to me.

...and at 299.99 the prices don't get much lower....Really? You should hope not. $300 is still too expensive for the mass-market. At that price, high-def DVDs would remain a niche market, resulting in fewer releases, higher disc prices, and more limited availability.

DVD Players really started to sell at the pricepoint of $250. With that said there is more to it than just buying a player. These people need to own the tv and understand the TV. That is asking alot right now. It is clear at this point HD-DVD has taken a hit among the tech crowd..... And I say good the closer we get to one format the better. Then we have a product....What you expect all these people to run out and buy HD-DVD players?!?! There are not that many owners of either format yet. I think your off base and what you want makes no business sense for Blu-Ray to do.

No, I am not nuts. You are in denial. It's one of the early phases but will eventually lead to acceptance. You did not even read my post.

First I didnt call you nuts.. And i did read your post.

LOL in denial?? I own both formats. I could careless who wins/loses but if people truly believe that Block Buster will change the war are nuts.

Or if people think the average person is now going to go out and buy up BR standalones just because of Block Buster are really nuts.

Until people purchase blu-ray players, they aren't going to care what blockbuster carries. It's not as though they're going to blockbuster to purchase blu-ray players. So unless blu-ray players start a lot more stand alone players, I see no reason to worry about hd-dvd's fate.

You're missing the point. For those consumers who do not own a HD player yet, when they go into Blockbuster and all they see is Blu-ray, the seed is planted that Blu-ray is (unequivocally) the defacto standard for high definition discs. Even if the consumer knows about HD DVD, if they only see Blu-ray films available at the place they shop, wouldn't it make sense to buy Blu-ray? You don't buy the cart before the horse, let alone before seeing what the horse even looks like.

Having only Blu-ray in stores is absolutely going to draw buyers into Blu-ray. The DVD vs. VHS argument is not relevant here. DVD had no real competition.

First I didnt call you nuts.. And i did read your post.

LOL in denial?? I own both formats. I could careless who wins/loses but if people truly believe that Block Buster will change the war are nuts.

Or if people think the average person is now going to go out and buy up BR standalones just because of Block Buster are really nuts.

My post related to people who frequent Blu Ray exclusive BB stores. Laugh all you want, but IMO it will influence their choice of player.

My post related to people who frequent Blu Ray exclusive BB stores. Laugh all you want, but IMO it will influence their choice of player.


It might... until they walk into Best Buy and see that the players are twice as much as HD DVD. Then it becomes a decision-making process again, rather than a sure thing.

That's the other side of the coin. This is a PR win for blu-ray, but they still have to convince someone to shell out, say, $400 for a player when the other HD format is $200.

And if enough people say "screw that" and go with the less expensive HD DVD players, then Blockbuster will alter their focus.


So, this is doesn't 'change' anything. It may have a subtle, PR-type influence... but it doesn't (IMO) sell players. Which is what everyone (including Blockbuster) needs to happen if they want things to continue to skew blu.

My post related to people who frequent Blu Ray exclusive BB stores. Laugh all you want, but IMO it will influence their choice of player.
Maybe..............but when? And will they really pay any attention? Flash back to 1997/1998 - how many even realized there was a DVD rack in the store? Same for game consoles - how many ooh & aah over PS3 games when then own a 360? Do they even look @ what's there? Lots of shiny boxes in the store, who pay attention to those they can't rent?

It is good PR......even that to an extent. Reported on the local news last night - 1st time I've ever seen "the war" mentioned - too bad they were laughing with a "who gives a damn" attitude (on two stations). They just didn't care.

It might... until they walk into Best Buy and see that the players are twice as much as HD DVD. Then it becomes a decision-making process again, rather than a sure thing.

That's the other side of the coin. This is a PR win for blu-ray, but they still have to convince someone to shell out, say, $400 for a player when the other HD format is $200.

And if enough people say "screw that" and go with the less expensive HD DVD players, then Blockbuster will alter their focus.


So, this is doesn't 'change' anything. It may have a subtle, PR-type influence... but it doesn't (IMO) sell players. Which is what everyone (including Blockbuster) needs to happen if they want things to continue to skew blu.

The factors in the decision making process are changing, people are now going to be looking at the $250 player and wondering if they will be able to get content since it will be unavailable at their local blockbuster, unlike BD.

I think this will stop (or at least greatly hinder) sales of cheap HD DVD players, the decision will be between staying with DVD and making the step up to Blu-ray.

My post related to people who frequent Blu Ray exclusive BB stores. Laugh all you want, but IMO it will influence their choice of player.

Even if that player is $500.00? I dont think so when their upscale DVD player looks good anyway. And when they find out they need a HDTV to play those disc as well then forget about it.

It might... until they walk into Best Buy and see that the players are twice as much as HD DVD. Then it becomes a decision-making process again, rather than a sure thing.

That's the other side of the coin. This is a PR win for blu-ray, but they still have to convince someone to shell out, say, $400 for a player when the other HD format is $200.

And if enough people say "screw that" and go with the less expensive HD DVD players, then Blockbuster will alter their focus.


So, this is doesn't 'change' anything. It may have a subtle, PR-type influence... but it doesn't (IMO) sell players. Which is what everyone (including Blockbuster) needs to happen if they want things to continue to skew blu.

So your theory is that the Best Buy sales department is going to save HD-DVD? If that's the case, then the war is over. ;)

Seriously, I didn't say it was a sure thing or the end all deal. But, IMO, it is a big deal that will on a percentage basis affect player sales. 'Nuf said by me on this issue.

You're missing the point. For those consumers who do not own a HD player yet, when they go into Blockbuster and all they see is Blu-ray, the seed is planted that Blu-ray is (unequivocally) the defacto standard for high definition discs. Even if the consumer knows about HD DVD, if they only see Blu-ray films available at the place they shop, wouldn't it make sense to buy Blu-ray? You don't buy the cart before the horse, let alone before seeing what the horse even looks like.

Having only Blu-ray in stores is absolutely going to draw buyers into Blu-ray. The DVD vs. VHS argument is not relevant here. DVD had no real competition.
there are still people who go into a Blockbuster? :eek:

Not in my area.... that place is a ghost town and has been for years. I even wonder why it is still there.

HD DVD must do something to counter this.

My main factor in choosing my first VCR between beta and VHS was checking what was at the rental stores at the time.

And I don't think Netflix counts as much. You need the ability to say "Hey, why don't we go rent a movie and make some popcorn."

So I would not underestimate the effect of choices by local B&M video rental stores.

- Tom

It is good PR......even that to an extent. Reported on the local news last night - 1st time I've ever seen "the war" mentioned - too bad they were laughing with a "who gives a damn" attitude (on two stations). They just didn't care.

Actually there was a story this morning on NPR (National Public Radio) about it up here in the SF Bay area...

there are still people who go into a Blockbuster? :eek:

Not in my area.... that place is a ghost town and has been for years. I even wonder why it is still there.

Ha ha, I don't know why anyone goes to Blockbuster and pays ~$5 a movie, but a lot of people do. Even if you only go in once in a while, when the only HD media you see is Blu-ray, that's going to influence most people's future buying decisions if they decide to go down the HD road.

Ha ha, I don't know why anyone goes to Blockbuster and pays ~$5 a movie, but a lot of people do. Even if you only go in once in a while, when the only HD media you see is Blu-ray, that's going to influence most people's future buying decisions if they decide to go down the HD road.

Hmm, I go to the local blockbuster and they give me movies for free. Why would you pay $5 for them when for 19.99 or whatever you can get as much content than you can watch?

Actually there was a story this morning on NPR (National Public Radio) about it up here in the SF Bay area...

Well, NPR normally has much better coverage on any issue than any local news (or national imho). I wouldn't expect it to be different in this case, although the depth of knowledge on this issue might bother someone who hangs out here.

The idea of blockbuster carrying only blu-ray discs brings me back to a time in my childhood...

My parents picked up a beta player b/c all of the korean video stores only carried movies/shows on beta tapes. Being 8 yrs old, i didn't know anything about vhs/beta. All i knew is we had a videotape player that we can use for watching movies.

Of course the first thing I did when we got the beta player was to drag my dad out to the local video store to pick up a movie. I forget what movie we picked up that day but I took it home and realized the tape didn't fit into my beta player. went back to the video store to get the correct tape and of course i found out they do not carry anything on beta.

i can see the exact same thing happening now but with hd-dvd being beta's replacement. i find it kind of ironic b/c all this time, ppl have been calling blu-ray this generation's beta.

it's been mentioned numerous times but this is really not good for hd-dvd no matter how you try to spin it. public perception will be that blu-ray is better and the standard for HD media. i really feel the only way hd-dvd can make up some ground is to release every hd-dvd exclusive movie as a combo disc and to get rid of sd-dvd only versions.

(disclaimer i own an hd-dvd addon for my xbox and do not own a blu-ray player. i will pick up a blu-ray player when it costs $200 or under)

Ha ha, I don't know why anyone goes to Blockbuster and pays ~$5 a movie, but a lot of people do. Even if you only go in once in a while, when the only HD media you see is Blu-ray, that's going to influence most people's future buying decisions if they decide to go down the HD road.
Not trying to flame anyone here. I just don't quite understand what needs to be neutralized for HD DVD. The most important nights in the rental game are Thursday, Friday, and Saturday. The BB in my area on any one of those given nights will have anywhere from 10-12 people in it at any given time and 6-8 of them are wearing blue and say hello when you walk in. This is an honest evaluation. I am a pro HD supporter who currently owns a HD DVD player, but will in the future buy a BR player if warrented. I have no problems with this scenerio. My only problem is the over zealous craziness that a Blockbuster announcement has made. In my area they are already dead now. This stuff is not going to make any difference what BB does. We all know the giant to the studios is always going to be what does Walmart want. Always has been and will always be in the future. Blockbuster means nothing.

....
And I don't think Netflix counts as much. You need the ability to say "Hey, why don't we go rent a movie and make some popcorn."

.....
- Tom

That's a 20th Century concept. This is the 21st century.

My thought as to what the HDDVD side should do: instead of selling Toshibas with 5 free discs (and the selection of discs to choose from not being that extensive), why not sell them with free subscriptions for a fairly generous period of time (say 3 months or so) to Netflix stressing the selection of HDDVDs available for rent. I would think seeing something like this in conjunction with a significantly lower price for the HDDVD player as compared with the Blu Ray would go a long way to neutralizing the effect on Blockbuster customers of only having seen Blu Rays available for rent. 'Do I pay 200-300 dollars more for the Blu Ray machine and continue going to Blockbuster or do I save a chunk of significant change on the HDDVD player and try this new online rental scheme - for free, no less?' That's not going to convince the person who is convinced that since Blockbuster isn't carrying HDDVDs, they must be this generation's Betamax. But for anyone who's not convinced, I'd bet it would sway them.

'Do I pay 200-300 dollars more for the Blu Ray machine and continue going to Blockbuster or do I save a chunk of significant change on the HDDVD player and try this new online rental scheme - for free, no less?' That's not going to convince the person who is convinced that since Blockbuster isn't carrying HDDVDs, they must be this generation's Betamax. But for anyone who's not convinced, I'd bet it would sway them.
Option 3 - screw that, I'm not paying $500 for that! My DVDs look just fine upconverted.

Hmm, I go to the local blockbuster and they give me movies for free. Why would you pay $5 for them when for 19.99 or whatever you can get as much content than you can watch?

I thought it was around $25 for two at a time and $30 for three at a time unlimited per month. I had the Movie Pass for a while last year, but the problem with it is availability. Because there's no return date, people would keep them for weeks or longer. New releases were darn near impossible to get unless you got lucky. No thanks, I cancelled after about two months of them never having anything in stock. Plus, with Netflix, you have an enormous library, not just a small selection one store can fit on its shelves. I also like docs, and you usually don't see deep libraries of those in any of the B&M's.

Yes! More theories and conspirarcies from the HD-DVD crowd. How can anyone say this BB development does not hinder HD-DVD acceptance and boost Blu-ray acceptance is beyond me.

That's a 20th Century concept. This is the 21st century.

I think it's still a current concept.... if the massive checkout lines at my local Blockbuster on a Friday night are any indication.

That's the other side of the coin. This is a PR win for blu-ray, but they still have to convince someone to shell out, say, $400 for a player when the other HD format is $200.


I think the prices at the store matter most. At my local Bestbuy yesterday, the cheapest HD DVD player had a $399 tag on it with the Blu Ray bottom at $499. Not much of a difference given you get a larger percentage difference between different TVs of the same size (depending on features).

Yes! More theories and conspirarcies from the HD-DVD crowd. How can anyone say this BB development does not hinder HD-DVD acceptance and boost Blu-ray acceptance is beyond me.

It's definately good PR, I don't think there's any acceptance on either side @ the current prices.

I think it's still a current concept.... if the massive checkout lines at my local Blockbuster on a Friday night are any indication.

But do they even pay attention to HD media? If they do is it any more than "I ain't spending that kind of $$$"?

I think the prices at the store matter most. At my local Bestbuy yesterday, the cheapest HD DVD player had a $399 tag on it with the Blu Ray bottom at $499. Not much of a difference given you get a larger percentage difference between different TVs of the same size (depending on features).
This always kills me: "Not much of a difference..." ($100).

I know people who will cross the street and go ten blocks to save ten cents! Not everyone has an early adopter mentality! :rolleyes:

Blockbuster means nothing.


Let's keep the conversation to planet earth please.

Most Americans RENT their movies. They don't buy.

Revenue from video rentals was up 32% last year. Revenue from video SALES was DOWN.

Most Americans rent from BLOCKBUSTER. Blockbuster holds 73.6% of the US rental market (for comparison, Netflix holds 13.4%).

What is happening in "your town" doesn't mean that much. I will give you my own anecdote. I live in Chicago. My zip code is 60657. There are probably 20 Blockbusters within a 5 mile radius of my house. You can go on their web site and do a search and see for yourself. I don't know what it is like in Butler, PA, but let's just say that it took me 2 weeks to get Borat here in Chicago. And on any given Friday night, Blockbusters are packed enough to where you have to wait in a long line at checkout. I know Blockbuster may not be "growing" and in 15 years they may not even exist, but they are AT THIS MOMENT a behemoth in home video and their brand name is synonymous with movie rentals in this country, so let's keep our conversations on planet earth. Whoever Blockbuster chooses has probably the most impact of any move I can possibly think of as you are looking at the source where MOST Americans get their movies.

Also, to anyone talking about Netflix, you should try Blockbuster Total Access. It is cheaper. Check. The new releases have less wait time. Check. You can trade your movies in anytime you want for another in store. Check. And you get a free video game rental every month. Check. It is BETTER than Netflix in absolutely every way.

This is an absurd statement. I'm sorry but let's keep the conversation to planet earth.

Most Americans RENT their movies. They don't buy.

Revenue from video rentals was up 32% last year. Revenue from video SALES was DOWN.

Most Americans rent from BLOCKBUSTER. Blockbuster holds 73.6% of the US rental market (for comparison, Netflix holds 13.4%).

LOL! You're right though! Blockbuster does matter. They can spin it all they want but that doesn't change the facts. Blockbuster favoring Blu-ray is no way, shape, or form helps HD DVD.

But do they even pay attention to HD media? If they do is it any more than "I ain't spending that kind of $$$"?

depends. let's look at the three groups

"I ain't ever spending that kind of $$$": no but then they are not spending that kind of money so who cares.

"I want something better then DVD and I can afford it" yes it will affect them because they would want to rent 100$ to 200$ difference becomes moot when you can rent for 5 or buy for 30$ a movie you just want to see once.

"you know I see this all over the place, maybe I should look into it" here it is yes as well.


so basically people that won't buy an HDOM player won't be affected. People that might and when they get closer to buying it will play a role.

Also, to anyone talking about Netflix, you should try Blockbuster Total Access. It is cheaper. Check. The new releases have less wait time. Check. You can trade your movies in anytime you want for another in store. Check. And you get a free video game rental every month. Check. It is BETTER than Netflix in absolutely every way.

Unless you want to rent NC-17 movies or another movie Netflix has but BB doesn't.

Unless you want to rent NC-17 movies or another movie Netflix has but BB doesn't.

Exactly, I had to get my cousin to rent "This Film Not Yet Rated" (a documentary about the rating system) from Netflix for me because it received an NC-17 rating -- duh a documentary showing what it takes to get an NC-17, of course.

Blockbuster wouldn't carry it because of this rating....but "Unrated" versions from them that were a lot worse they have no problem with carrying...seems like a double standard.

LOL! You're right though! Blockbuster does matter. They can spin it all they want but that doesn't change the facts. Blockbuster favoring Blu-ray is no way, shape, or form helps HD DVD.


oh yeah...well, what about the difference between the dollars generated by sales verses renting?...blind buys by the HD DVD camp will remain while now the Blu blind buyers will have a PS3 type mentality...rent.

oh yeah...well, what about the difference between the dollars generated by sales verses renting?...blind buys by the HD DVD camp will remain while now the Blu blind buyers will have a PS3 type mentality...rent.

Hmmmm....where did you get such an idea? You do know that BR also outsells HDDVD, right? I'd also think some hddvd owners will start thinking twice about buying more hddvd movies after this announcement. Netflix (and Blockbuster Online too perhaps) may actually see more rentals now for the HDDVD format.

Personally, I was VERY close to pick up a hddvd player for 299, but when I saw the Blockbuster announcement, I went back on the fence. Had BR had cheaper players (300 is about my pain threshold..) I would buy one.

The present business model Toshiba, Universal and MS are using won't work because there are too many variables they can't control. They could eliminate most of the variables by releasing on combo discs only. They've had the opportunity to do this for months and haven't. If you have an ace and refuse to use it then you deserve the consequences - problem is do their supporters deserve those consequences as well?

Cheers,

Grant

- problem is do their supporters deserve those consequences as well?


Of course.

So your theory is that the Best Buy sales department is going to save HD-DVD? If that's the case, then the war is over. ;)

Seriously, I didn't say it was a sure thing or the end all deal. But, IMO, it is a big deal that will on a percentage basis affect player sales. 'Nuf said by me on this issue.

It might affect sales now but like anything else it will blow over after a certain amount of time if there are no further big announcements concerning the two competing formats. So if this thing is still going on, sales will once again pick up and it might be a long time before a winner has been decided if there ever is one.

It might affect sales now but like anything else it will blow over after a certain amount of time if there are no further big announcements concerning the two competing formats. So if this thing is still going on, sales will once again pick up and it might be a long time before a winner has been decided if there ever is one.

I agree that it could drag out and doubt that there will ever be an official "surrender". IMO, the closest thing will be something like Universal going format neutral, which will probably result in the eventual disappearance of HD-DVD.

So far the most interesting thing about this thread is that not one BD supporter has challenged my assertion that HD DVD combos could neutralize Blockbuster's decision to favour BD and perhaps give HD DVD new life! Pretty telling. Where's Darin? I thought he'd be shooting holes in the HD DVD combo idea by now. :D

Cheers,

Grant

if pigs were to fly, hell were to freeze over, and movie studies were to decide to effectively give their hd content away for free this might just work. back in the real world it's a non-starter, and it's unfortunate that amir is deciding to humour these last dying embers of hope.

if universal decided to follow this play of action and release all combos in place of dvds they would face a rather stark decision: either price the discs at the same level as their competitors dvds (and hence placing a zero value on the included hd content) ; or they could charge more as they currently do for combo releases, placing value on both the sd and hd content. the second scenario would see a decimation of their dvd sales, while the first would leave them with a worthless hd future. neither option is probably too tempting, particularly for a studio who have nothing obvious to gain by the victory of hd dvd over bd. meanwhile toshiba and microsoft can make all the noise they want, since they don't own content in this domain, and can only twiddle their thumbs and hope.

Let's keep the conversation to planet earth please.

Most Americans RENT their movies. They don't buy.

Revenue from video rentals was up 32% last year. Revenue from video SALES was DOWN.

Most Americans rent from BLOCKBUSTER. Blockbuster holds 73.6% of the US rental market (for comparison, Netflix holds 13.4%).

What is happening in "your town" doesn't mean that much. I will give you my own anecdote. I live in Chicago. My zip code is 60657. There are probably 20 Blockbusters within a 5 mile radius of my house. You can go on their web site and do a search and see for yourself. I don't know what it is like in Butler, PA, but let's just say that it took me 2 weeks to get Borat here in Chicago. And on any given Friday night, Blockbusters are packed enough to where you have to wait in a long line at checkout. I know Blockbuster may not be "growing" and in 15 years they may not even exist, but they are AT THIS MOMENT a behemoth in home video and their brand name is synonymous with movie rentals in this country, so let's keep our conversations on planet earth. Whoever Blockbuster chooses has probably the most impact of any move I can possibly think of as you are looking at the source where MOST Americans get their movies.

Also, to anyone talking about Netflix, you should try Blockbuster Total Access. It is cheaper. Check. The new releases have less wait time. Check. You can trade your movies in anytime you want for another in store. Check. And you get a free video game rental every month. Check. It is BETTER than Netflix in absolutely every way.


This is AWEOSOME!

My guess is now that Blockbuster rents BR movies, a lot fewer people will be buying them. At least until the price of players drops below $150. Early adopters will buy players no matter what the price. But how many average J6Ps will be willing to buy $500 players just to rent movies, especially when they already have HD on demand and upconverting DVD players.

Downloading videos whether via cable, the Internet, or something else will be around a lot longer than HD-DVD, Blu-Ray and Blockbuster brick and morter stores.

This always kills me: "Not much of a difference..." ($100).

I know people who will cross the street and go ten blocks to save ten cents! Not everyone has an early adopter mentality! :rolleyes:
But research has shown that people are spending a larger portion of their yearly income on a TV than ever before. Also, you'll find that the cheapest TVs in their price range are not necessarily the top sellers. Purchasing gas and food is a different thought process and a different category of decision than a TV or media player. Price is less important in the big purchases if people feel there is a quality or feature difference between two items.

Any marketing textbook will discuss this if you need a reference. That's why I said $100 price difference will not be seen as a big deal for this type of purchase if the consumer feels one offers more or better utility than the other. I'm not saying the Blu Ray player is better, so please don't take it that way. I'm simply stating that $100 price difference is not a deal breaker in most cases for this type of purchase. And, I'm talking regular people, not early adopters.

if pigs were to fly, hell were to freeze over, and movie studies were to decide to effectively give their hd content away for free this might just work. back in the real world it's a non-starter, and it's unfortunate that amir is deciding to humour these last dying embers of hope.

if universal decided to follow this play of action and release all combos in place of dvds they would face a rather stark decision: either price the discs at the same level as their competitors dvds (and hence placing a zero value on the included hd content) ; or they could charge more as they currently do for combo releases, placing value on both the sd and hd content. the second scenario would see a decimation of their dvd sales, while the first would leave them with a worthless hd future. neither option is probably too tempting, particularly for a studio who have nothing obvious to gain by the victory of hd dvd over bd. meanwhile toshiba and microsoft can make all the noise they want, since they don't own content in this domain, and can only twiddle their thumbs and hope.

The zero value for the HD side of the disc is a BIG selling feature - buy the DVD and get the HD version for free so now run out and purchase a HD DVD player to watch it on! This gets HD DVD out there and "out there" is everywhere DVD is sold or rented in one move - what's that worth? According to Amir in the Insider's Thread the difference in cost is very little. Add to this that if you sell a million DVDs of a title you therefore sell a million HD DVDs at the same time and in essence you have the PS3 effect which can be effectively used for "spin".

Your second point is that Universal has nothing to gain by HD DVD becoming the HD optical standard. Why then has it bothered to make a rather substantial effort supporting HD DVD to this point? Having made such an effort why not move to the next step - combo only releases?

Selling only the combo version for a DVD price is a win/win for HD DVD. Consumers who want the DVD get the HD version for free and an incentive to purchase a player. Consumers who want the HD DVD version get the DVD for free so they can play it in a vehicle or let their kids watch it on a DVD player. Consumers love stuff for "free". This will sell big time and "selling big time" means more profit!

Cheers,

Grant

The zero value for the HD side of the disc is a BIG selling feature - buy the DVD and get the HD version for free so now run out and purchase a HD DVD player to watch it on! This gets HD DVD out there and "out there" is everywhere DVD is sold or rented in one move - what's that worth? According to Amir in the Insider's Thread the difference in cost is very little. Add to this that if you sell a million DVDs of a title you therefore sell a million HD DVDs at the same time and in essence you have the PS3 effect which can be effectively used for "spin".
that's a benefit to the consumer and the hd dvd prg, but what's in it for the studio who own this property you're advocating they give away for nothing? they don't sell hd dvd players so they don't get any money there. effectively they would have just hobbled their entire future sales strategy for highdef: not smart! nah, this is not gonna happen in the real world.

Your second point is that Universal has nothing to gain by HD DVD becoming the HD optical standard. Why then has it bothered to make a rather substantial effort supporting HD DVD to this point? Having made such an effort why not move to the next step - combo only releases?
a question with a question is it? and now a question with a question with a question! how much wood could a woodchuck chuck... universal hasn't released as many titles as wb, though i think they're close to sony. it's possible there was a deal with toshiba as has been rumoured, or it could be that the management in place at the time was very anti sony. difficult to tell, but they're not in the same possition as warner who will receive a small licensing fee for every title released on dvd and now hd dvd. frankly universal have no incentive to give their content away for hd dvd's greater good.

Selling only the combo version for a DVD price is a win/win for HD DVD. Consumers who want the DVD get the HD version for free and an incentive to purchase a player. Consumers who want the HD DVD version get the DVD for free so they can play it in a vehicle or let their kids watch it on a DVD player. Consumers love stuff for "free". This will sell big time and "selling big time" means more profit!
and that's the kicker. the profit would go to toshiba, who don't own movies in the usa, while universal who do have the movies wouldn't be seeing any of that profit since they'd have just given their hd content away for nothing. anyway u slice it a large number of people paying nothing, is still nothing.

[QUOTE=Issac Hunt]that's a benefit to the consumer and the hd dvd prg, but what's in it for the studio who own this property you're advocating they give away for nothing? they don't sell hd dvd players so they don't get any money there. effectively they would have just hobbled their entire future sales strategy for highdef: not smart! nah, this is not gonna happen in the real world.


I would agree studio's need to make a profit for sending out HD DVD combo's rather than DVD's. So Toshiba needs to make a deal with them or Toshiba is going to lose when DVD sales start to drop. What type of deal is required, I'm not sure but Toshiba does have licencing fees, which I sure they could negioate to help pursuade studio's to support HD DVD combo's. Is it enough $$$ to make this happen, I'am not sure, but the impact of having only combo HD DVD available would be huge and would make the Blockbuster and Panasonic comments insignificant.

I happen to agree with Deja Vu stance that Toshiba should be working with the studio's to make this happen. I don't believe they have any other options at this point.

Even if this was true it doesnt matter. You CAN still rent on-line. Most people now do it online rather then going to the movie store anyway..

Chris
thats right ,in fact i have a freind who owns a video store in my area and he told me with online renting and the down loading you can do now,he said in 5 or 10 years walk in video stores will be a thing of the past,so i woundnt worry about bb or any store,there going the way of the 8tr tape record albums laserdics etc. id like to add this story about bb is not the whole story. some stores wont carry bd or hd dvd,and one bb rept said they only doing bd for now!!,in 6mons things can go hd dvds way! lets not over look that fact,this war is far from over.you bd guys ought to go to you tube.com and do a search on blu-ray,thers other things at work here why sonys is pushing so hard on winning,and what i saw im not all that willing to support bd. sony owns how many studios? little self interest there dont you think. theres other thinks of interest check it out.im sure the hd dvd group has this bb thing in the works if they deem it important,but i for one dont.i have never rented many dvds id rather own them,also yeh this thread should close

thats right ,in fact i have a freind who owns a video store in my area and he told me with online renting and the down loading you can do now,he said in 5 or 10 years walk in video stores will be a thing of the past,so i woundnt worry about bb or any store,there going the way of the 8tr tape record albums laserdics etc. id like to add this story about bb is not the whole story. some stores wont carry bd or hd dvd,and one bb rept said they only doing bd for now!!,in 6mons things can go hd dvds way! lets not over look that fact,this war is far from over.you bd guys ought to go to you tube.com and do a search on blu-ray,thers other things at work here why sonys is pushing so hard on winning,and what i saw im not all that willing to support bd. sony owns how many studios? little self interest there dont you think. theres other thinks of interest check it out.im sure the hd dvd group has this bb thing in the works if they deem it important,but i for one dont.i have never rented many dvds id rather own them,also yeh this thread should close

....*Rolls over dead from lack of breathing, due to extremely long sentences*..... (please, some punctuation, next time! :)

*Resisting any further comments regarding flawed logic and grammar*

I had the same idea as Grant when I posted this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=10820357&&#post10820357 three days ago.

But here's what you have to ask:

1.) What's in it for the studio combatants to be giving away for free on a combo disk what they have been charging $25+ for, and could still be making from Blu-Ray disk sales?

2.) The studios would have to expect to earn royalties from the sales of Toshiba HD-DVD players. While Toshiba has plenty of room to pay them, and stay under the Blu-Ray player price points, to date they have preferred instead to make one time offers, like the 5 free dvds for purchasing a player.

But the reason I have always liked HD-DVD's chances, is the inherent lower costs. Toshiba is positioned to strike back, if they have partnered wisely with the studios. The combo disk is their wild card. But if they don't play it, or never intended to, all the more reason for Blockbuster to be taking the direction they went.

The zero value for the HD side of the disc is a BIG selling feature - buy the DVD and get the HD version for free so now run out and purchase a HD DVD player to watch it on! This gets HD DVD out there and "out there" is everywhere DVD is sold or rented in one move - what's that worth? According to Amir in the Insider's Thread the difference in cost is very little. Add to this that if you sell a million DVDs of a title you therefore sell a million HD DVDs at the same time and in essence you have the PS3 effect which can be effectively used for "spin".Amir said SD DVDs and HD DVD combos cost approximately the same? Do you have the link where he said this? I find that hard to believe.

What do SD DVDs cost to replicate? Around 50 cents? And what do HD DVD single layer discs cost? Around a buck and change? Maybe $1.20 or so? (Anyone have better figures?)

Maybe the cost difference between a regular HD DVD and a combo is just under 50 cents since you eliminate some plastic. So it could be considered a small difference.

But I imagine it still costs a lot more to press combos than a normal SD DVD given that HD DVDs cost more than twice as much as regular DVDs to replicate. (Unless my costs are way off.)

It'll probably cost a studio a little over a million dollars to sell a million HD DVD combos at the same price as their regular DVD. And blockbusters sell way more than one million copies. I think POTC sold 4 or 5 million DVDs in just its first day of release! That's a lot of money for any studio to be donating to Toshiba's cause.

It'll probably cost a studio a little over a million dollars to sell a million HD DVD combos at the same price as their regular DVD. And blockbusters sell way more than one million copies. I think POTC sold 4 or 5 million DVDs in just its first day of release! That's a lot of money for any studio to be donating to Toshiba's cause.

Which is why at the end of the day it's not about the best interest of the consumer but about what makes sense in the best interest of the studios, esp. in the Hollywood studios.

It's easy to see that upgrading standard dvd this way would benefit mass market consumers by keeping their legacy dvd players relavent and easing them into hd media. In that sense it would also benefit the adoption of hd media in general. HD content could eventually become a "feature" of most all DVD's.

It makes sense then why so far hd dvd studios have been trying to guage whether consumers would be willing to pay for combo disks, because ultimately for them to fly someone has to pay them.

The way these businesses are aligned however only one company has ownershp and enough vested interest in both the hardware and the media of an hd format to subsidize it that heavily and that is Sony. Unfortunately their format is going to require wholesale replacement of standard dvd hardware and software, a tall task.

Grant, people have been proposing this for a while now. I know I suggested the same thing a couple months back- with the caveat that it be intended as a "Special" Limited time frame promotion- and the key is promotion.
I suggested the program should last about one full year- with a lot of hype for 3 months leading up to the start of the promo including a flyer bundled into every sd dvd sold before the program kicks off. The purpose of the expiration date is so the studios see a light at the end of the tunnel, and the countdown to its end can be marshalled for more hype.

another way they could do this is to confine the program strictly to new releases. For catalog titles, they could continue to press low quanities of HD DVD-only discs.

The ability of HD DVD to provide combos is a killer feature that thus far has been abysmally utilized. I can't think of bigger way they could have bungled the advantage here than charging a premium for the 'feature'.

In any event. I don't see this as really an option anymore- it looks like a neccessity to me at this point if the format has any honest desire to continue and build.

Could you imagine if this program were already in place for Septembers release of Knocked Up and Novemebers release of Bourne Ultimatum?

Yes! More theories and conspirarcies from the HD-DVD crowd. How can anyone say this BB development does not hinder HD-DVD acceptance and boost Blu-ray acceptance is beyond me.

I don't know if it will boost Blu-rays acceptance.. but it makes me reconsider getting the HDDVD add-on for my 360.

Or.... Maybe I will help Netflix's market share and get back with them. I had netflix for about a year and cancelled it when I thought I watched every movie. Fast forward to a few months ago and we decided to try Blockbuster. There actual shipping to my house is slower then netflix but I like the in-store option and the ability to get a game (despite their horrible 360 collection). I am in law school, so my movie watching has gone from 1-2x daily to once a week. I can wait for the movie in the mail.

I don't know that I really care enough about either to spend more then $200 plus on the players. So in my mind as a somewhat above average A/V spender... I wont "accept" Blu-ray until they drop their players. I will say that Best Buy (or circuit city's) sony bundle was tempting.. Random Sony TV's with a PS3 and a free movie..

Grant, people have been proposing this for a while now. I know I suggested the same thing a couple months back- with the caveat that it be intended as a "Special" Limited time frame promotion- and the key is promotion.
I suggested the program should last about one full year- with a lot of hype for 3 months leading up to the start of the promo including a flyer bundled into every sd dvd sold before the program kicks off. The purpose of the expiration date is so the studios see a light at the end of the tunnel, and the countdown to its end can be marshalled for more hype.

another way they could do this is to confine the program strictly to new releases. For catalog titles, they could continue to press low quanities of HD DVD-only discs.

The ability of HD DVD to provide combos is a killer feature that thus far has been abysmally utilized. I can't think of bigger way they could have bungled the advantage here than charging a premium for the 'feature'.

In any event. I don't see this as really an option anymore- it looks like a neccessity to me at this point if the format has any honest desire to continue and build.

Could you imagine if this program were already in place for Septembers release of Knocked Up and Novemebers release of Bourne Ultimatum?

I agree - if HDDVD wants to prosper, this is probably the only thing they can do. I'm not sure which studios they would convince though. Universal probably. Not so sure about Warner/Paramount. I don't think they want to lose the money for one, secondly they risk alienating Sony.

Toshiba may have some leverage through both DVD and HD DVD royalities. Cut or waive these royalities for a specific time period to see if combos only sell enough to make it worthwhile. This way Toshiba could bring Paramount, Warner and Universal on board. In fact why not just use the DVD royalities Sony, Disney, LGF and Fox pay to Toshiba - use the BD's money to HD DVD's advantage. :D The idea here is to use DVD as a delivery system for HD DVD! It works for other businesses from Tobacco to alcoholic beverages. Seems to me it would be a real shame to see HD DVD slowly fade away over the next couple of years without ever employing its big gun.

Cheers,

Grant

The ability of HD DVD to provide combos is a killer feature that thus far has been abysmally utilized. I can't think of bigger way they could have bungled the advantage here than charging a premium for the 'feature'.

In any event. I don't see this as really an option anymore- it looks like a neccessity to me at this point if the format has any honest desire to continue and build.

Could you imagine if this program were already in place for Septembers release of Knocked Up and Novemebers release of Bourne Ultimatum?

Well at the end of the day studios have to know if people will pay for the feature or not. If not, they have to consider if blu-ray is a better choice don't they? Perhaps if consumers don't the like the combo feature they'll enjoy the bonus DRM feature of blu-ray better. :eek:

It is possible that some studios could decide that without software compatibility blu-ray will never overtake standard dvd and that at least with combos they could reinvigorate and stretch out the lifespan of their standard dvd sales.

High defintion then could become a great competitive feature to add to their standard dvds. If the premium were only let's say $2.00 for instance maybe that would fly?

Also, to anyone talking about Netflix, you should try Blockbuster Total Access. It is cheaper. Check. The new releases have less wait time. Check. You can trade your movies in anytime you want for another in store. Check. And you get a free video game rental every month. Check. It is BETTER than Netflix in absolutely every way.

I would agree with you with one exception. Wait times from Blockbuster Total Access for HD DVD rentals are terrible.

I find it somewhat amusing that Blockbuster says they are seeing more rentals of Blu-ray media when in fact they don't stock enough HD DVD media to meet current demand.

This is only going to become more apparent as the 50K+ people who've joined the HD DVD fraternity in the past six weeks get frustrated about long rental times from Blockbuster.

thats right ,in fact i have a freind who owns a video store in my area and he told me with online renting and the down loading you can do now,he said in 5 or 10 years walk in video stores will be a thing of the past,so i woundnt worry about bb or any store,there going the way of the 8tr tape record albums laserdics etc. id like to add this story about bb is not the whole story. some stores wont carry bd or hd dvd,and one bb rept said they only doing bd for now!!,in 6mons things can go hd dvds way! lets not over look that fact,this war is far from over.you bd guys ought to go to you tube.com and do a search on blu-ray,thers other things at work here why sonys is pushing so hard on winning,and what i saw im not all that willing to support bd. sony owns how many studios? little self interest there dont you think. theres other thinks of interest check it out.im sure the hd dvd group has this bb thing in the works if they deem it important,but i for one dont.i have never rented many dvds id rather own them,also yeh this thread should close
thisiscalledstreamofconsiousnesswhereinthesubjectistalkingto himselfhencethereisnoneedforpunctuation. Right RP?

thisiscalledstreamofconsiousnesswhereinthesubjectistalkingto himselfhencethereisnoneedforpunctuation. Right RP?

No, doubt.

Just looking at that guys post made my head swim.

Don't they teach basic grammar skills in school any longer? I don't expect people to be perfect but we're talking about the kind of basic sentence formation skills you have to have to pass the 8th grade, sheesh!! :p

Look people,

lets hope for universal players soon and then let one format die out slowly. We aren't talking about the genocide of a race of people for goodness sake.

The sooner we go to one format, the sooner mass appeal means lower disc costs and more variety of content. Mass production and consumption will make this technology commonplace and let us then build on it to the next generation.

The Blockbuster move is good for everyone, and has advanced the conversation.

Who cares? Jeez... this Blockbuster thing is being blown so out of proportion. If anything, Blockbuster dropping HD-DVD should be a signal that possibly DVD will win and no HD media format will take hold.

Look people,

lets hope for universal players soon and then let one format die out slowly. We aren't talking about the genocide of a race of people for goodness sake.

The sooner we go to one format, the sooner mass appeal means lower disc costs and more variety of content. Mass production and consumption will make this technology commonplace and let us then build on it to the next generation.

The Blockbuster move is good for everyone, and has advanced the conversation.Obviously you are biased to Blu-Ray's success, not HD-DVD or format neutral. Sorry, but I'm not down with this "I like Sony and hate Microsoft so the other side should just give up" or "I like Universal movies and hate Sony, so I thing Sony should throw in the towel mentality. Where were these dumbass attitudes when Microsoft and Netscape were competing?

F'm all I say. Let god sort it out.

Obviously you are biased to Blu-Ray's success, not HD-DVD or format neutral. Sorry, but I'm not down with this "I like Sony and hate Microsoft so the other side should just give up" or "I like Universal movies and hate Sony, so I thing Sony should throw in the towel mentality. Where were these dumbass attitudes when Microsoft and Netscape were competing?

F'm all I say. Let god sort it out.

that made made me really lol

Why not let Xenu sort it out?

http://morethings.com/fan/south_park/photo_gallery/912-trapped_in_the_closet/05secret_scientologist_xenu_story05.jpg

All HD DVD has to do is follow the suggestions in this link to deliver a haymaker to the BDA and Sony.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=864518

All HD DVD has to do is follow the suggestions in this link to deliver a haymaker to the BDA and Sony.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=864518

Won't happen, too much money for the studios to change, too much promotional costs to explain the differences, too many tech support calls from people wondering why one side that they paid for won't play in their DVD player.

Which cases do they go in? Red ones, standard DVD, something else?

A ton of questions and not enough money in the HD DVD arena (or BD for that matter) to sway their decision. Now if 40% percent of their sales of a particular title were the HD variety, then maybe, but it must be less than 1% of total sales...just not worth the time or effort.

Plus what would the board of directors / shareholders think about this.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. With great risk comes greater rewards. In other words HD DVD would deserve to lose if they are afraid of such a relatively small risk with so much potential.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. With great risk comes greater rewards. In other words HD DVD would deserve to lose if they are afraid of such a relatively small risk with so much potential.


I posted these questions in the other forum. IMHO the risk/reward isn't worth it. BD could do something similar, but they haven't. Probably because the cost would be astronomical, and they (both sides) simply dont have the capacity for it.


1. If it could be done at a minimal cost (as you suggest), wouldnt' it be done already? The studios already add "available on DVD and ______" with the DVD & ____ logo because the cost of adding that is minimal.

2. How much extra does it cost for a completed combo vs standard dvd. Why are they selling the combos for $5 over non-combo prices if the additional cost is negligible?

3. Do they even have the capacity to make that many combo disks? A strong dvd release will sell something like 10 mil in the first week? Is there capacity to manufacture that many combos?

4. Is the additional cost that small that they would be willing to sacrifice some of their profits for? If the additional cost for the combo + licensing fees + marketing etc, is $.05 per disk, that's $500k less that they're making. And that's only for 1 hit movie for the first week. You increase it to $.20, and you're looking at $2.0 million less profits for the first week.

I guess the most important thing to remember is that when you're talking about increasing the cost of DVD, which holds over 99% of the market, the #s get big VERY fast. It probably is not economically feasible for the studios to take such a risk by messing with DVDs. They can screw around with TotalHD & combos for the HD formats because they charge a higher price for these products & production #s are small enough that the extra manufacturing cost shouldn't be material to their bottom line.

quick chime in here... as a "format null" person, would like to comment on how the blockbuster deal has influenced me. I am not an average consumer, I do own two 1080 LCD's. While I ws already partial to HD DVD b/c of the cheaper players, the WB release of Matrix on HD DVD really nudged me into the red zone and I started shopping for a player. Now this has me reconsidering and put me back in no-man's-land.... I do want to ultimately buy the player that wins, I cannot justify going "neutral" and having two players and two incompatible movie collections. I have, however, considered "what if" I chose the wrong pill, i.e. invest in the dodo bird, I think it would be okay at this point because there are plenty of good movies released already on both sides to keep me pacified and I figure after a while ppl will start dumping these "obsolete" discs on fleabay cheap, hopefully, and I'm good to go until my player breaks.....

off topic, a bit, but can anyone point me to a good thread with factual differences in the formats to help figure out which to invest in? There's sooooo much fanboy stuff out there I can't find anything... for example, in this thread I learned two things: HD DVD can have combo SD discs, BD has that TDK durabis tech (I hate how fragile a $15 DVD is...I have kids) but I shouldn't have to look at ppls' signature block to get crumbs of real info amidst all of the bias... should I?

quick chime in here... as a "format null" person, would like to comment on how the blockbuster deal has influenced me. I am not an average consumer, I do own two 1080 LCD's. While I ws already partial to HD DVD b/c of the cheaper players, the WB release of Matrix on HD DVD really nudged me into the red zone and I started shopping for a player. Now this has me reconsidering and put me back in no-man's-land.... I do want to ultimately buy the player that wins, I cannot justify going "neutral" and having two players and two incompatible movie collections. I have, however, considered "what if" I chose the wrong pill, i.e. invest in the dodo bird, I think it would be okay at this point because there are plenty of good movies released already on both sides to keep me pacified and I figure after a while ppl will start dumping these "obsolete" discs on fleabay cheap, hopefully, and I'm good to go until my player breaks.....

off topic, a bit, but can anyone point me to a good thread with factual differences in the formats to help figure out which to invest in? There's sooooo much fanboy stuff out there I can't find anything... for example, in this thread I learned two things: HD DVD can have combo SD discs, BD has that TDK durabis tech (I hate how fragile a $15 DVD is...I have kids) but I shouldn't have to look at ppls' signature block to get crumbs of real info amidst all of the bias... should I?

I'm an HD DVD fan, though too old to be called a boy.

I bought in initially because I was already using an Xbox 360 in a wireless network with an HTPC using Win XP MCE. It was great to record HDTV OTA on the PC and stream it to my bedroom HT. (Sorry about all the acronyms, but this is geek central, after all.)

The HD DVD add-on was by far the cheapest way to get a look at the new tech, and I was impressed by what I saw -- the cleanest and best image quality available to consumers.

When the price came down to $250 at Costco for a standalone, I added one to the bedroom and moved the add-on to the PC. The HD D2 not only does a superb job with HD DVDs, it does a damn fine job of upscaling SD DVDs as well.

That's why, IMHO, it's worth jumping in now. HD DVDs are also region free and I've been able to import some titles unavailable in the U.S.

I also admit a fondness for classic movies, and there are a lot more of them on the HD DVD side. Blu-ray releases tend to aim at the tastes of the younger gamer crowd with lots of bang-bang and comic-book flicks.

And that, my friend, is what should decide which side you go for. If you want to narrow your reading list, check the sticky threads about the movies released and promised by both camps. Sitting on the fence means that eventually your butt will begin to chafe as you miss out on the HD entertainment the rest of us are enjoying right now.

As for Blockbuster, they lost me years ago by ripping me off on late fees for movies I brought back on time and they failed to log in. I've been a happy Netflix renter for years. Likewise I could care less how much price gouging CC and BB do on discs when Amazon and others give me substantial discounts, more choices and more convenient service.

The Blu-ray camp is doing some very aggressive PR and it is budging the news media and public perception. I prefer to do my own research and come to my own conclusions. I picked HD DVD and have no reason to regret it. I'll be buying and enjoying movies in my chosen format for as long as the players last, and by then there'll be even better display and content options.

Let the war rage. Life is good.

Obviously you are biased to Blu-Ray's success, not HD-DVD or format neutral. Sorry, but I'm not down with this "I like Sony and hate Microsoft so the other side should just give up" or "I like Universal movies and hate Sony, so I thing Sony should throw in the towel mentality. Where were these dumbass attitudes when Microsoft and Netscape were competing?

F'm all I say. Let god sort it out.

I'm biased for one winner. It interests me because like many others who have NOT jumped aboard one or the other with our pocketbooks, we want to.

It interests me that no Blu supporters are hoping for a long dragged out war. Few Blu are screaming for a both/and solution. Few Blu are hoping for a return to dvd.

OTOH - HD DVD supporters seem to be angrier and more excited about both losing if their side seems to be losing. Kinda like the two women who went before Solomon and both wanted the baby. Or like when Kramer and Elaine went before Newman regarding the Bicycle.

I posted these questions in the other forum. IMHO the risk/reward isn't worth it. BD could do something similar, but they haven't. Probably because the cost would be astronomical, and they (both sides) simply dont have the capacity for it.


1. If it could be done at a minimal cost (as you suggest), wouldnt' it be done already? The studios already add "available on DVD and ______" with the DVD & ____ logo because the cost of adding that is minimal.

2. How much extra does it cost for a completed combo vs standard dvd. Why are they selling the combos for $5 over non-combo prices if the additional cost is negligible?

3. Do they even have the capacity to make that many combo disks? A strong dvd release will sell something like 10 mil in the first week? Is there capacity to manufacture that many combos?

4. Is the additional cost that small that they would be willing to sacrifice some of their profits for? If the additional cost for the combo + licensing fees + marketing etc, is $.05 per disk, that's $500k less that they're making. And that's only for 1 hit movie for the first week. You increase it to $.20, and you're looking at $2.0 million less profits for the first week.

I guess the most important thing to remember is that when you're talking about increasing the cost of DVD, which holds over 99% of the market, the #s get big VERY fast. It probably is not economically feasible for the studios to take such a risk by messing with DVDs. They can screw around with TotalHD & combos for the HD formats because they charge a higher price for these products & production #s are small enough that the extra manufacturing cost shouldn't be material to their bottom line.

HD DVD can do this! Apparently they can fairly easily and inexpensvely cvonvert DVD facilities over to HD DVD. According to Amir the cost of combos over HD DVD or DVD is minimal. As far as packaging just go with the normal DVD case and colour it red. Put DVD and free HD DVD on the face and put an additional sticker with DVD on the DVD side and one with HD DVD on the other or colour the HD DVD side red. :D I am sure someone can address those issues fairly easily. You're right about the BD doing the same thing, but they'd have to use two discs rather than a combo. The beauty of this is that it takes the DVD vendors and rental outlets out of the equation when it comes to HD DVD and kills any PR advantage through announcements from the Blockbusters of the world, plus it saves precious storage space for these businesses since it takes up the space of a single format - two for the price of one! HD DVD needs to step up to the plate and hit a homer pretty soon or it's going the way of the Dodo bird.

Cheers,

Grant

As far as packaging just go with the normal DVD case and colour it red. Put DVD and free HD DVD on the face and put an additional sticker with DVD on the DVD side and one with HD DVD on the other or colour the HD DVD side red. :D I am sure someone can address those issues fairly easily.

If they include a code/link to download free high-res cover art (for the HD DVD red cases), I'm all for it!

HD DVD can do this! Apparently they can fairly easily and inexpensvely cvonvert DVD facilities over to HD DVD.
that was certainly the pre-game propaganda. since then we've not had a single verified instance of this taking place in reality. it seems it's cheeper to buy a new hd dvd line than it is to re-tool an existing dvd line. while the later may be technically feasible it doesn't appear to be financially viable.

as to the costs of the discs that's not the issue. it's the value of the data included on the discs which is the problem, and there simply is no way that universal will start giving away their hd content for free. they're not a charity, and their shareholders would go ape. toshiba could attempt some sort of financial remuneration but the issue then becomes one of tosh having to pay off universal for the duration of the format's lifetime. that could be an enormous wad of cash. or is the suggestion here that universal would only give this content away for free for a short time before switching to a proper pricing scheme? their customers would love them for that sort of deception! sorry but u've still not explained how universal are supposed to benefit from this combo plan.

HD DVD can do this!

Apparently they can fairly easily and inexpensvely cvonvert DVD facilities over to HD DVD. According to Amir the cost of combos over HD DVD or DVD is minimal. As far as packaging just go with the normal DVD case and colour it red. Put DVD and free HD DVD on the face and put an additional sticker with DVD on the DVD side and one with HD DVD on the other or colour the HD DVD side red. :D I am sure someone can address those issues fairly easily.

In theory the hd dvd + dvd disk in one could be great but when you say hd dvd can do this we have to keep in mind that hd dvd is not a movie studio, and Universal is not hd dvd. They don't own the format.

The difference here is that Sony is a studio and does have ownership interest in the blu-ray format. This gives them financial incentive to use their influence as a studio for future gain, and it gives them reason to take losses that Universal simply doesn't have.

It may be a great idea but business interests have to dictate that it's worth doing.

HD DVD can do this! Apparently they can fairly easily and inexpensvely cvonvert DVD facilities over to HD DVD. According to Amir the cost of combos over HD DVD or DVD is minimal. As far as packaging just go with the normal DVD case and colour it red. Put DVD and free HD DVD on the face and put an additional sticker with DVD on the DVD side and one with HD DVD on the other or colour the HD DVD side red. :D I am sure someone can address those issues fairly easily. You're right about the BD doing the same thing, but they'd have to use two discs rather than a combo. The beauty of this is that it takes the DVD vendors and rental outlets out of the equation when it comes to HD DVD and kills any PR advantage through announcements from the Blockbusters of the world, plus it saves precious storage space for these businesses since it takes up the space of a single format - two for the price of one! HD DVD needs to step up to the plate and hit a homer pretty soon or it's going the way of the Dodo bird.

Cheers,

Grant

It would be awesome if someone had the cost figures on a per disk basis. I think it could be viable if they ramp up production of these things to drive the eventual cost down. But I don't see it happening because neither side is starting to implement it, and neither would be willing to bite the bullet, but it would be very interesting to see how the figures would break down.

that was certainly the pre-game propaganda. since then we've not had a single verified instance of this taking place in reality. it seems it's cheeper to buy a new hd dvd line than it is to re-tool an existing dvd line. while the later may be technically feasible it doesn't appear to be financially viable.

as to the costs of the discs that's not the issue. it's the value of the data included on the discs which is the problem, and there simply is no way that universal will start giving away their hd content for free. they're not a charity, and their shareholders would go ape. toshiba could attempt some sort of financial remuneration but the issue then becomes one of tosh having to pay off universal for the duration of the format's lifetime. that could be an enormous wad of cash. or is the suggestion here that universal would only give this content away for free for a short time before switching to a proper pricing scheme? their customers would love them for that sort of deception! sorry but u've still not explained how universal are supposed to benefit from this combo plan.

Good points.

I live in a very wealthy part of the San Francisco Bay Area (money + high tech) and my local Blockbuster doesn't have any plans to stock HD-DVD or Blue Ray. A non-issue.

DVD and HD DVD combos sound good, but the concept didn't pan out for the SACD/CD combo discs!

I bought a couple thinking someday i'd be ready for SACD when it came. Same cost and two formats. Seemed like a no brainer at the time.

HD DVD needs a little more. Otherwise they will become niche.

Tactically, this is a non starter. It's the beginning of the end for HD DVD. One more blow, from a major distributor, and we can put this format war to bed.

Tactically, this is a non starter. It's the beginning of the end for HD DVD. One more blow, from a major distributor, and we can put this format war to bed.

I taught this happened months ago?

I'm an HD DVD fan, though too old to be called a boy.

I bought in initially because I was already using an Xbox 360 in a wireless network with an HTPC using Win XP MCE. It was great to record HDTV OTA on the PC and stream it to my bedroom HT. (Sorry about all the acronyms, but this is geek central, after all.)

The HD DVD add-on was by far the cheapest way to get a look at the new tech, and I was impressed by what I saw -- the cleanest and best image quality available to consumers.

When the price came down to $250 at Costco for a standalone, I added one to the bedroom and moved the add-on to the PC. The HD D2 not only does a superb job with HD DVDs, it does a damn fine job of upscaling SD DVDs as well.

That's why, IMHO, it's worth jumping in now. HD DVDs are also region free and I've been able to import some titles unavailable in the U.S.

I also admit a fondness for classic movies, and there are a lot more of them on the HD DVD side. Blu-ray releases tend to aim at the tastes of the younger gamer crowd with lots of bang-bang and comic-book flicks.

And that, my friend, is what should decide which side you go for. If you want to narrow your reading list, check the sticky threads about the movies released and promised by both camps. Sitting on the fence means that eventually your butt will begin to chafe as you miss out on the HD entertainment the rest of us are enjoying right now.

As for Blockbuster, they lost me years ago by ripping me off on late fees for movies I brought back on time and they failed to log in. I've been a happy Netflix renter for years. Likewise I could care less how much price gouging CC and BB do on discs when Amazon and others give me substantial discounts, more choices and more convenient service.

The Blu-ray camp is doing some very aggressive PR and it is budging the news media and public perception. I prefer to do my own research and come to my own conclusions. I picked HD DVD and have no reason to regret it. I'll be buying and enjoying movies in my chosen format for as long as the players last, and by then there'll be even better display and content options.

Let the war rage. Life is good.
Thanks for the advice. Btw, I didn't mean to be calling anyone in particular a fanboy, and while you appear partial to hd dvd, you are not a member of the crowd I'm referring to... I'm talking about the posters who have remarks degrading one format or the other in their signature line! Seems so silly to care that much. But you are right and this is geek central, and ppl's passion about tech here is what makes this site a great resource. I plan to put together an HTPC and would sure like to put an internal hd format drive into it, jerry-riging an 360 add-on does not appeal to me.... Are there any other options for HD DVD on HTPC? If not, I guess you have had good luck with this, is it as simple as plugging in usb, and finding compatible driver.... sorry, I know this is off topic...

As I sit on the fence, my feet are dangling on the HD DVD side, so I just thought I'd mention here that the blockbuster deal did give me cold feet, fwiw, and this discussion is all about how this deal will affect those who haven't yet taken the plunge.

I haven't noticed more classics on hd dvd, that's good to know, and as I said before one of the reasons I can deal with the risk of picking the wrong format is that there are tons of older movies that I am interested in will continue to float about, enough stuff it will take me forever to watch it all...

If both formats don't use DVD as an HD delivery system they they both may be niche, at best. Much of this format "war" is about future royalities and this is where Toshiba holds the advantage. For BD to use DVD to get BD into homes it has to pay Toshiba DVD royalities and this is like taking two steps forward and then one and one-half steps back - why bother. It's different for HD DVD since Toshiba can waive DVD royalities to get the combo disdcs out there. What does a 50 or 75 cent manufacturing cost increase translate into at retail? Probably not even the $5 extra cost of combos sold today. Both of these formats are struggling - IMO the one that piggybacks on DVD has the best chance of success. Rather than seeing DVD as the enemy it should be taken advantage of and looked on as an asset.

Cheers,

Grant

Until people purchase blu-ray players, they aren't going to care what blockbuster carries. It's not as though they're going to blockbuster to purchase blu-ray players. So unless blu-ray players start a lot more stand alone players, I see no reason to worry about hd-dvd's fate.

You're not getting the point. When they go to Blockbuster to rent SD-DVDs, they will see Blu-Ray on the shelf and no HD-DVD. Therefore, the natural assumption will be that Blu-Ray is the leading format. That will most likely influence them when to go to buy a next-gen player.

When you watch TV, you see Nike advertisements on TV, but no Reebok advertisements. The natural assumption is that Nike is the better brand. When you go to a sportwear store, you'd be leaning more towards Nike then Reebok because of this.

These people who go into BB's B&M stores and see only Blu Ray discs for rent, what kind of player do you think they'll buy this Christmas? IMO the tendency will be to purchase a player that can play the hundreds of discs they see available for rent.


This type of common sense thinking eludes the HD-DVD fanboys..

You're not getting the point. When they go to Blockbuster to rent SD-DVDs, they will see Blu-Ray on the shelf and no HD-DVD. Therefore, the natural assumption will be that Blu-Ray is the leading format. That will most likely influence them when to go to buy a next-gen player.

When you watch TV, you see Nike advertisements on TV, but no Reebok advertisements. The natural assumption is that Nike is the better brand. When you go to a sportwear store, you'd be leaning more towards Nike then Reebok because of this.

If advertisements affect people that much, so much for critical thinking.

Its a stretch to say a customer will run out and buy a Blu-Ray player after seeing them on the shelf at BB. I can see it now

"Oooo pretty blu ray for rent, lets go to the store"

"Holy crap, how much?"

"and I need a hi def TV?"

"and some speakers?"

and some and some

If advertisements affect people that much, so much for critical thinking.

Its a stretch to say a customer will run out and buy a Blu-Ray player after seeing them on the shelf at BB. I can see it now

"Oooo pretty blu ray for rent, lets go to the store"

"Holy crap, how much?"

"and I need a hi def TV?"

"and some speakers?"

and some and some


Consider the alternative though. If someone purchases an HD-DVD player and then goes to Blockbuster to try and rent one and is told they only support and carry Blu-Ray.. Those 30 day return policy's will sure come in handy...

piggybacking of any format with dvd-releases won't happen (not for BluRay, not for HDDVD). I'm sure it's a wet dream for some, but there is no money in it for either side to do this. (and remember, corporations care about one thing: money)

piggybacking of any format with dvd-releases won't happen (not for BluRay, not for HDDVD). I'm sure it's a wet dream for some, but there is no money in it for either side to do this. (and remember, corporations care about one thing: money)

That may be the biggest stumbling block for the general public - HD DVD being so similar to DVD might keep the consumer from making the jump. (kindof how Superbit titles meant nothing to J6P.

Blu, on the other hand, might be a greater leap, BUT might seem worth it, "a whole new technology advancement." In the mind of the consumer, it is more reasonable to make a jump rather than invest in incremental improvement - i.e. HD DVD and upscaling might mean the same stinkin' thing to the average folk.

Originally Posted by rombullterrier
These people who go into BB's B&M stores and see only Blu Ray discs for rent, what kind of player do you think they'll buy this Christmas? IMO the tendency will be to purchase a player that can play the hundreds of discs they see available for rent.

The truth ^

You're not getting the point. When they go to Blockbuster to rent SD-DVDs, they will see Blu-Ray on the shelf and no HD-DVD. Therefore, the natural assumption will be that Blu-Ray is the leading format. That will most likely influence them when to go to buy a next-gen player.
Could very well be the case.....................except that unless the BDA gets their stuff together it could just as easily be a disaster. Any of the current players that don't support 100% of the features post holiday season could be a PR nightmare, headline/soundbite -

"consumers angered by Blu Ray player bugs"

Not good.

Blu, on the other hand, might be a greater leap, BUT might seem worth it, "a whole new technology advancement." In the mind of the consumer, it is more reasonable to make a jump rather than invest in incremental improvement - i.e. HD DVD and upscaling might mean the same stinkin' thing to the average folk.
Are you saying based on names? HD-DVD = DVD+HD (in the consumers mind) while Blu Ray is linked to new technology? (once again in the consumers mind)

Could go either way -

Blu-what? HD-DVD = Hi Definition DVD

Are you saying based on names? HD-DVD = DVD+HD (in the consumers mind) while Blu Ray is linked to new technology? (once again in the consumers mind)

Could go either way -

Blu-what? HD-DVD = Hi Definition DVD


I'm saying that combo discs and piggybacking doesn't make it necessarily easier for the average consumer. They might see HD DVD as just an enhanced version of dvd.

Remember S-VHS? Consumers could see a VHS to S-VHS move as marginal, but vhs to DVD as change in technology.

That's all I'm saying, nothing more.

I'm saying that combo discs and piggybacking doesn't make it necessarily easier for the average consumer. They might see HD DVD as just and enhanced version of dvd.
Disclaimer - I don't like combos

I can see how they might help sales. Who's going to buy HD discs (in any large numbers) when they only play in one machine? They'll pick the SD version everytime because it plays in the car, the kids room, the upstairs TV............

I see this as one thing holding back HD media in general - until all the DVD players die folks will still buy the SD versions as they work everywhere.

Remember S-VHS? Consumers could see a VHS to S-VHS move as marginal, but vhs to DVD as change in technology
Yep, I was strictly referring to the name.........

HD-DVD = has DVD in the name = evolutionary technology

Blu Ray = all new name = revolutionary technology

Just perceptions, which often determines sales.

piggybacking of any format with dvd-releases won't happen (not for BluRay, not for HDDVD). I'm sure it's a wet dream for some, but there is no money in it for either side to do this. (and remember, corporations care about one thing: money)

Content owners could probably charge a small premium on their DVD sale and/or use it to boost their standard dvd value and sales.

The reason it probably won't happen anytime soon though is as you say, it's about money, and right now if it's possible to go with Blu-ray and sell all new disks at a premium over sd dvd while still selling your sd dvd's as usual, and to sell all new players for every room, car etc. and at a much higher margin than sd dvd and to cut down on piracy at the same time then BD represents more profit than adding high def to standard dvds.

Now if the BD over DVD dream doesn't work out as projected then perhaps less profitable alternatives would be considered, later.

With less than 1% of profit for BB in total HDD rentals, It will be a while before it is economically viable to even have this debate! ;)

With less than 1% of profit for BB in total HDD rentals, It will be a while before it is economically viable to even have this debate! ;)

Not true. DVD is a mature industry - low growth. Hi Def is emerging. Can you say exponential growth?

Would you as investor want to buy a fully mature and declining tecnology? No, the future growth is HD - we may now be looking at the watershed moment in time. The richest investors jump in right when they can smell the winner. The wisest investors come on their heels, but they come in much larger numbers.

piggybacking of any format with dvd-releases won't happen (not for BluRay, not for HDDVD). I'm sure it's a wet dream for some, but there is no money in it for either side to do this. (and remember, corporations care about one thing: money)

MS was involved with a release of T2 which had two discs included - a SD DVD and a HD version of the film on the second disc which you then had to contact MS via the internet to enable it to play on your PC. MS used DVD to get their HD version out there to those interested. I purchased this release for $20.00, so it can be done! Releasing combo only is more efficient since it could save on packaging, floor space and distribution costs - helps pay for any additional manufacturing costs. It gets the product out to both DVD purchasers and HD DVD purchasers and gives them both a bonus at little to no extra cost. All rental outlets would now have both without investing in more space and it takes away any choice about supporting one format over the other. This sells more players and more players sells more movies. This is a win/win for both Toshiba and Universal and any format neutral studios. It's all about making money and you have to create a demand first and combos would certainly help.

Cheers,

Grant

MS was involved with a release of T2 which had two discs included - a SD DVD and a HD version of the film on the second disc which you then had to contact MS via the internet to enable it to play on your PC. MS used DVD to get their HD version out there to those interested. I purchased this release for $20.00, so it can be done! Releasing combo only is more efficient since it could save on packaging, floor space and distribution costs - helps pay for any additional manufacturing costs. It gets the product out to both DVD purchasers and HD DVD purchasers and gives them both a bonus at little to no extra cost. All rental outlets would now have both without investing in more space and it takes away any choice about supporting one format over the other. This sells more players and more players sells more movies. This is a win/win for both Toshiba and Universal and any format neutral studios. It's all about making money and you have to create a demand first and combos would certainly help.

Cheers,

Grant

But for high-profile future-mainstream technology, this takes a whole product line and potential extra sales out of the pipeline. A main reason for studios to want the next gen of media is to resell their catalogs. They'd have to have strong incentive to give away HD titles even for a limited time. Also, this increases the cost, thus lowering the profit, of SD DVD.

I see combos as a way to get more shelf space and to distribute HD more readily. I just don't see it as a reasonable business decision for studios.

MS was involved with a release of T2 which had two discs included - a SD DVD and a HD version of the film on the second disc which you then had to contact MS via the internet to enable it to play on your PC. MS used DVD to get their HD version out there to those interested.
t2 is not a major studio release, and the rights to that movie rest with a number of banks who came into possession of the title when caralco hit the wall. i'm not sure if any major studios released on microsoft's format, not that it matters since the whole exercise is a bit of a failure. the point in this instance being that microsoft created and pushed the format, and were instrumental in bringing this one highly recognised (though not major studio) title to market. toshiba could try and do something similar with some public domain titles, but the top studios simply don't have any incentive to give away their intelectual property. it's a pipe dream.

t2 is not a major studio release, and the rights to that movie rest with a number of banks who came into possession of the title when caralco hit the wall. i'm not sure if any major studios released on microsoft's format, not that it matters since the whole exercise is a bit of a failure. the point in this instance being that microsoft created and pushed the format, and were instrumental in bringing this one highly recognised (though not major studio) title to market. toshiba could try and do something similar with some public domain titles, but the top studios simply don't have any incentive to give away their intelectual property. it's a pipe dream.

How is anyone giving anything away? There is probably more profit in this approach than in the status quo since it gives consumers a reason to purchase DVDs (with HD DVD) again. At some point the DVD part can be dropped and you're where you originally wanted to be - HD only disc. HD DVD needs a new strategy or it will be relegated to a niche format, at best. Companies take losses on game consoles for years to gain market share and make money over the long term. HD DVD combos might mean less profit (not losses) for the short term to esatablish the format long term. Why not try a popular new title and see what happens? Not much risk in doing that!

Cheers,

Grant

If people think that the average person is now going to run out and get a BR player just because BB is only carrying BR Disc are nuts.

Even at Xmas time if prices of BR player dont come down WAY down it still wont matter.


I guess this Blockbuster deal is a disaster for Blu-ray then, nothing good can come from it, I don't know why major news networks and sites bothered reporting it, lol.

If people think that the average person is now going to run out and get a BR player just because BB is only carrying BR Disc are nuts.

True, but I can feel confident in saying the average person isn't going to run out and get a HD DVD player because BB is only carrying BR. :rolleyes:

If advertisements affect people that much, so much for critical thinking.

Its a stretch to say a customer will run out and buy a Blu-Ray player after seeing them on the shelf at BB. I can see it now

"Oooo pretty blu ray for rent, lets go to the store"

"Holy crap, how much?"

"and I need a hi def TV?"

"and some speakers?"

and some and some

Not sure what point you are trying to make.. but if they want to go HD DVD they still have to buy all of that stuff... This still gives an edge to BD.

Your statement actually could help people justify a Blu-ray player.. If they are already spending $4000+ on TV, Reciever, Speakers, cables.. what is an extra $200-300 to be able to rent High Def movies at Blockbuster.

I mean hell.. Look at all the people that are upsold into buying Monster cables at Circuit City and Best Buy.