Thanks in advance for recommendations here: I'm now trying to integrate audio and video--catching up with the rest of the world. I got a new A/V receiver and a B&W center channel speaker to match my existing B&W bookshelf speakers (DM303). With a sub, then, I'd have a 3:1 setup, or 2:1 for stereo.

While I'd like movies to sound good, I'm more interested in music sound, ranging from pop through jazz and occasional classical. The local audio store that sold me the B&Ws has B&W subs, too--an 8" model at circa $350, I think, and then up to 10" and 12." They also have a Paradigm sub. But I'm not sure that timbre matching matters much with subs, and I notice that people here do not talk much about B&W subs.

The important thing: I want a sub that fills out the bass very cleanly, and not so that people will necessarily even realize that the stereo has a sub. A subtle sub.

I can spend $250 now if there are good options. I'd have to wait a while if going to $500 seems strongly advisable. The room is 12x17 but a 12' wall (to one side of the listening position) opens entirely onto the kitchen, so the overall room size in that sense is almost double. Ideas about what subs I should consider?

David

The local audio store that sold me the B&Ws has B&W subs, too--an 8" model at circa $350, I think, and then up to 10" and 12." They also have a Paradigm sub. But I'm not sure that timbre matching matters much with subs, and I notice that people here do not talk much about B&W subs.

The important thing: I want a sub that fills out the bass very cleanly, and not so that people will necessarily even realize that the stereo has a sub. A subtle sub.

Properly calibrated, or tuned, most decent subs should "disappear".

Timbre matching is not important at all. In fact, a sub really has no "timbre", so to speak.

You didn't say which Paradigm sub or its size. If the dealer will allow you to take a sub or two home to try them out, that would be your best option.

B&W makes good subs, especially for music listening. They're not talked about much here because they don't dig as deeply as some other subs and because they are, relatively, pretty pricey.

Sorry, but I don't know the Paradigm model. It looked to be a 10" or 12" sub. I see that Circuit City has all kinds of subs at dramatically different price points. Even within a brand: a 10" Velodyne VRP-1000 at $260, or I can get an 8" Velodyne for $800! And I see that some subs take their signal through a line input as well as regular speaker connections. Does that matter?

I tend to like the audio specialist store, simply because they're better informed and set up for demo. While CC had at least 8-10 subs (mostly Boston, Polk and Velodyne), none of them were wired up to hear them! That said, you can walk out the door with a 10" Polk sub for under $200.

David

Many of the subs that are recommend here are not sold in retail stores, because they are factory direct and offer the most bang for your buck. There are some very good subs out there like some of the ones you mentioned, but I wouldn't consider CC as my first choice in terms of pricing or auditioning one. If you can find a place that will let you try one out thats' fine, but if you research this forum and share your requirements with the members, you may be able to choose a sub from the input you receive here.

Ian

What's striking to me about the list of subs in the ranked subs thread here is the total absense of consumer-brand subs from the list, by which I mean also audiophile consumer brands like Paradigm and B&W. I assume that the bottom ranked sub on the list--the Rocket Tyke--isn't necessarily better than a $500 Paradigm sub, or is it?

Also, when I read sub reviews, the emphasis there is often on what has the reviewer's "pants shaking" or what not. I don't want my pants shaking any more than they do normally at a live concert. Maybe that's what's meant in such reviews. But I really do not want to shell out extra dollars for a sub that's optimized to be extreme in any obvious way. Otherwise, my wife might notice the new equipment!

Boy, I'm sure encountering lots of things I dont know much about lately! (Wife included.) Thanks!

David

JL Audio, Velodyne, are consumer-brand subs. I would put Paradigm Servo subs at least in the low 90's of that ranking scheme. B&W ASW675 I would rank in the mid 80s. James EMB 1200 I would rank in the high 80s. This is all based on my comparison with ACI Titan 2 LE where on that rank scale would most likely fall in the low 90s.

Sorry I cant be of anymore help as those are the only subs I personally auditioned.


What's striking to me about the list of subs in the ranked subs thread here is the total absense of consumer-brand subs from the list, by which I mean also audiophile consumer brands like Paradigm and B&W. I assume that the bottom ranked sub on the list--the Rocket Tyke--isn't necessarily better than a $500 Paradigm sub, or is it?

Also, when I read sub reviews, the emphasis there is often on what has the reviewer's "pants shaking" or what not. I don't want my pants shaking any more than they do normally at a live concert. Maybe that's what's meant in such reviews. But I really do not want to shell out extra dollars for a sub that's optimized to be extreme in any obvious way. Otherwise, my wife might notice the new equipment!

Boy, I'm sure encountering lots of things I dont know much about lately! (Wife included.) Thanks!

David