I sure wish pioneer and others had kept the last models going until something better came out..
About to get a Panny z17 but after reading the threads on it and other panny models...it appears there are many problems with them, one of the things that stood out of all of them is that the panny was made to work with RAM disks better than any other media. So am now back where I started...need a recorder for smooth transition between layers on DL media and excellent IQ....don't need a hdd, nor tuner nor any of that...but everything I have read about here has some serious problems. ....the philips model is bad, the panny have plenty of probs(but I don't know if these probs are due to using the tuner to replace the cable box...can't find anywhere how it does when not useing the tuner but just connecting the recorder to a calbe box, like i have with the older models....so i don't know if the problems are there using it that way or not.)

So any advice? I really don't need the extra frills.

I don't know why you can't just hook the panny up to the cable box and record from it like I have always done with the older recorders with no problems.....t

My advice: wait for the gen-2 ATSC recorders.

Yes that is prob the best idea...i just wish they had kept the last models until the new ones came out...haha..t

They could legally no longer sell the old models. If the device had a tuner at all, it had to have an ATSC tuner, which is far from trivial to add, apparently. None of the old models had one, so they were no longer legal to transport and sell.

I can understand that, but I don't need nor use a tuner....isn't anyone making any good ones without a tuner? thanks.

Yes, I'm pretty sure I saw a new Sony with no tuner of any kind at BB a few days ago. S-vid in and maybe IEEE1394 (i-link/firewire):

RDR-GX355

Am I allowed to directly link you to it here, or is that against forum policy?

I'd also want an IR umbilical blaster mouse ala Tivo to change my source box's channel when in timer mode. I bet they failed to include that in their design.