Accurate? I have never recorded HD ota (HD over the air signals) using a converter, so I am somewhat unsure about this. Hopefully our gurus here will enlighten us.

You can always hook up an ATSC converter box to the line-in ports. As long as the output of the converter box is 480i there should be no problem -- and all the gov't sanctioned converter boxes will only output 480i. I'm not sure a digital 1080i broadcast, down-rezzed to 480i will look any different or better vs. a broadcast that was transmitted as digital 480.

Unfortunately, with a non-intergrated external tuner, programming will prove difficult at best and impossible at the worst. I'm hoping by that time a quality ATSC HDD-DVDR will be released -- gen-3 maybe.

I think the biggest challenge when using an external non-integrated tuner will be timer recordings. Difficult but perhaps not impossible. If the external digital tuner is produced by a well known brand name and the DVD recorder has IR blaster capabilities then there is a good chance the IR codes will work to change the channels on the external digital tuner. Thus allowing for timer recordings.

edit - no idea how the digital channel assignments (channel numbers) will work under this scenario. Probably more difficult than first thought if not impossible.

no idea how the digital channel assignments (channel numbers) will work under this scenario.

On an ATSC-only box, entering simply "4" should take you to virtual channel 4.1 regardless of what physical channel the signal is actually on (in my case, channel 59 currently, then channel 36 after analog shutdown). The only tuner I have that does not do this is the Sony HD DVR which also receives NTSC, so "4" gives me NTSC channel 4 and I have to enter "4.1" to get its ATSC counterpart.

I think the biggest challenge when using an external non-integrated tuner will be timer recordings.That's all I was referring to when I said programming will be difficult. Your statement about the ir blaster is exactly what I was thinking about. Even if it can communicate with the converter box, what will be the channel correspondence? Moreover, for something like my E-85, the channel lineup is acquired through TVGOS. With a converter box I would have to set the channels manually, but what would I set them too so that the ir-blaster could control the converter box.

Honestly nextoo, when I sit down and list out all these things that have to happen, I quickly convince myself that my E-85 is going to be a paperweight if I remain OTA-only. I am already resigned to buying a new unit once the NTSC lights go out. Hopefully, Panasonic will have a HDD model out by then, or phillips will be on gen-4 (with the bugs worked out).

Honestly nextoo, when I sit down and list out all these things that have to happen, I quickly convince myself that my E-85 is going to be a paperweight if I remain OTA-only. I am already resigned to buying a new unit once the NTSC lights go out. Hopefully, Panasonic will have a HDD model out by then, or phillips will be on gen-4 (with the bugs worked out).

Yes with OTA the guide will go dark. No way to download the guide info from a digital transmission. But real time recordings via the external digital tuner should be possible. Timer recordings are the wild card. It may be possible using an IR blaster but will probably be an extreme hassle.

But there's always this. If it or something like it happens. Free cable. In this case the guide could still be populated via analog cable. Limited channels but as many or more in some cases than OTA offers. One can only hope!

http://www.multichannel.com/article/CA6454308.html

...when I sit down and list out all these things that have to happen, I quickly convince myself that my E-85 is going to be a paperweight if I remain OTA-only. I am already resigned to buying a new unit once the NTSC lights go out. Hopefully, Panasonic will have a HDD model out by then, or phillips will be on gen-4 (with the bugs worked out).
Well, there is always the method I have used for many years prior to my Tivo days, and that was to program my VCR (in your case, the E85) with the times, and L1 as the input, and then program the tuner separately. While it is slightly annoying to have to program two devices for a single recording, it worked for me for a very long time. If you can get a programmable tuner, the E85 won't be a paperweight.

Well, there is always the method I have used for many years prior to my Tivo days, and that was to program my VCR (in your case, the E85) with the times, and L1 as the input, and then program the tuner separately. While it is slightly annoying to have to program two devices for a single recording, it worked for me for a very long time. If you can get a programmable tuner, the E85 won't be a paperweight.


Exactly. I did this for years with DIRECTV and VCRs or my Panasonic E80H recorder. I actually had one VCR that had an IR blaster built-in. The VCR was able to change the channel on the DIRECTV receiver so I only had to set the one timer on the VCR.

It's not that hard to set two timers. Using the Line inputs easily allows you to record HD channels in 480i quality. I've watched the non-HD HD recordings on my 110" screen and can't tell the difference from a 'live' picture when using XP or SP recording modes.

So even if the guide goes dark, you'll still be able to use your existing equipment for years to come (assuming you didn't buy something that doesn't allow manual timers to be set).

Well, there is always the method I have used for many years prior to my Tivo days, and that was to program my VCR (in your case, the E85) with the times, and L1 as the input, and then program the tuner separately. While it is slightly annoying to have to program two devices for a single recording, it worked for me for a very long time. If you can get a programmable tuner, the E85 won't be a paperweight.That would work except I have seen no indication that the "approved" converter boxes will have a programmable feature. Chances are they won't. I don't like the idea of spending $200 for a full featured HD tuner just to get a programmable converter box. My E-85 will be 4 years old by then, so I'll just buy a new one.

Buying a new one is always your choice. In this market, realistically, four years a pretty fair operational life for a "cutting edge" consumer electronics product. I have had items not last much beyond that. heck, if we're talking about computers, they are obsolete before you can buy them, take them home, open the box, take them out, and hook them up. REALLY!

That would work except I have seen no indication that the "approved" converter boxes will have a programmable feature. Chances are they won't. I don't like the idea of spending $200 for a full featured HD tuner just to get a programmable converter box. My E-85 will be 4 years old by then, so I'll just buy a new one.

How many govt cheese rebates are there going to be per household? Is it one per or one per TV up to ????

Since there are not as many OTA channels, some people could get away in some cases by just leaving the converter to whichever channel they want to record. That's what I did when I had a cable box that couldn't be programmed to change channels.

Those with more than one converter and recorder, could create channel combos. For example, converter #1 and Panasonic ES10 record ABC, converter #2 and Pioneer 210 record CBS, etc... Given that these converters are probably going to be swimming on eBay, one could get more for less.

Of course it would be much nicer if they were programmable :-)

How many govt cheese rebates are there going to be per household? Is it one per or one per TV up to ????

Since there are not as many OTA channels, some people could get away in some cases by just leaving the converter to whichever channel they want to record. That's what I did when I had a cable box that couldn't be programmed to change channels.

Those with more than one converter and recorder, could create channel combos. For example, converter #1 and Panasonic ES10 record ABC, converter #2 and Pioneer 210 record CBS, etc... Given that these converters are probably going to be swimming on eBay, one could get more for less.

Of course it would be much nicer if they were programmable :-)One cannot be absolutely sure of the T&C's of the gov't rebate coupons until they actually set the program up for us to submit applications starting in January. But, according to the gov't documents currently published, you can apply to qualify for up to 2 certificates worth $40 each per household. There is no guarantee that $40 will cover the complete cost of the converter box.

Those certificates can only be redeemed for purchase of an approved converter box sold at approved retailers. The retailer is supposed to document that the certificate was used for an approved box in order to get reimbursed by the gov't. These rules are put in place to specifically exclude subsidizing people who bought HD-ready TV's without tuners and want to try and use the certificate towards the purchase of an HD tuner.

If you look at the specs for what the converter box must have, may have and cannot have, you see the approved box is a very very basic SD tuner + remote for older TVs. If you want extra functionality, you may be able to get it if someone sees enough of a market to make it, but the gov't won't subsidize it.

You can always hook up an ATSC converter box to the line-in ports. As long as the output of the converter box is 480i there should be no problem -- and all the gov't sanctioned converter boxes will only output 480i. I'm not sure a digital 1080i broadcast, down-rezzed to 480i will look any different or better vs. a broadcast that was transmitted as digital 480.

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I have recorded both digital 480 and downrez 1080i on the new phillips unit. The 1080 is better on several fronts.

For letterboxed 480 vs anamorphic 1080, the difference is night and day on my widescreen.

For full screen, 480, it is less apparent but the picture is definately a little softer than downrez 1080. I'm not sure this will be true in the future. I think the broadcasters are either uprezing 480i or they are not devoting enough bits to the full screen SD digital channels.

But, according to the gov't documents currently published, you can apply to qualify for up to 2 certificates worth $40 each per household....and if you're smart you'll apply for two boxes right away. Apparently Congress has only funded a certain amount of money for this, and it's not nearly enough to equip every household in America. This is partly because nobody seems to know for sure how much demand there will be. But when the money runs out there's no guarantee that funding will be increased to accomodate latecomers.

I believe it's been capped at $1.5 billion. As one might predict, the first to apply will be the most tech savvy with PC's and Internet connectivity so they can apply on-line. By the time the inner city poor get around to it, the well may very well be dry.

I would not be surprised if the final form of the distribution is income restricted.

One cannot be absolutely sure of the T&C's of the gov't rebate coupons until they actually set the program up for us to submit applications starting in January. But, according to the gov't documents currently published, you can apply to qualify for up to 2 certificates worth $40 each per household. There is no guarantee that $40 will cover the complete cost of the converter box.

Those certificates can only be redeemed for purchase of an approved converter box sold at approved retailers. The retailer is supposed to document that the certificate was used for an approved box in order to get reimbursed by the gov't. These rules are put in place to specifically exclude subsidizing people who bought HD-ready TV's without tuners and want to try and use the certificate towards the purchase of an HD tuner.

If you look at the specs for what the converter box must have, may have and cannot have, you see the approved box is a very very basic SD tuner + remote for older TVs. If you want extra functionality, you may be able to get it if someone sees enough of a market to make it, but the gov't won't subsidize it.

Oh there are specs for the converter? Do you happen to remember where they are? I may have to make space for two more boxes - if nothing else they can feed my devices with analog tuners in the future :-)