I really hope this is OK to ask about here... the TAW forum is no more and TAW is technically not in business any more (only limited support to existing customers as I understand it).

I am looking to get a new RPTV that has a native resolution of 1080P. Most likely it will be the JVC HD-70FH97. This set (and as I understand it most 1080P sets) won't accept a 1080P signal over component cables... it must be via HDMI. According to the manual for the set, it does support DVI input via HDMI using a DVI to HDMI cable.

This means that in order to run the Rock Ruby HD scaler at 1080P with this set, it must go via the DVI output via a DVI to HDMI cable.

I currently don't use the DVI out from the Rock HD, nor have I ever used it. The Rock Ruby HD is the Rock Pro scaler with a HDSDI input jack, and a HD/SD Analog to HDSDI converter card mounted in the back. The video output cards that originally shipped with the Rock Pro had a DVI output. There was an upgrade to the original card called the "Detail Enhancement MOD" that provided slightly better picture quality, but lost the ability to output a DVI signal. There was finally another upgraded video output card that added back the DVI output signal.

From what I remember, the success of the DVI output on Rock Pro's using either the original card or the final upgraded card was sporadic. It worked fine for some, but not at all for others.

To get to my question, I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with using either a Rock Ruby HD or a Rock HD with the external Prelude unit (same as the Ruby but the HD/SD Analog to HDSDI converter card is mounted in a separate box) outputting a 1080P signal via the DVI output to a 1080P RPTV's DVI input. My Rock Ruby has the final upgraded video card (the one released after the "Detail Enhancement MOD" card).

Did everyone get rid of their Rock Pro's? :)

Not me, and never will.

Dan

Your dealings with Phil must have gone quite a bit better than mine did.

I got rid of my Rock HD long ago. It's ancient technology. All it really is is a standard PC motherboard, CPU, and RAM running Windows Millenium and some scaling software Phil paid some engineer to write. It's basically all software... there was no original hardware in it, just various pieces (motherboard, SDI card, video card, etc.) plugged together running the software. It was a great scaler in its time but has since been far surpassed. It's also dead... no more software or hardware updates coming for it, likely forever. Who knows how much longer Phil we be able to support what little existing customers he has left. (MY OPINIONS.)

I suggest looking into the iScan VP50 with the SDI card option. It should do everything the Rock HD does and more... it also scales HD Digital, all formats up to 1080P, including HDCP sources. Picture quality should be better than the Rock HD as well. It sells direct for $3000 but can be found for around $2000 if you look hard enough. The SDI card is $400. The only thing it doesn't have is a HDSDI input but if you don't have any sources that use HDSDI out then that shouldn't matter.

You can be sure it will work with your new 1080P set, and if you have problems, you'll have support for it. iScan has been around longer than TAW and they even offer upgrades to customers who have older products.

I know this may be hard to hear as the Rock HD is like a $12,000 scaler (at least that's how much I paid from the Rock+ then all of the later upgrades to the Rock HD), but trust me I'm happier with my iScan.

So you really believe a $12,000 scaler is now outmatched by a $3,000 iScan?

I had a look at the VP50 manual, it does look like many of the types of functions on the Rock HD are present on the VP50, although I'm not sure if the zoom functions are as complete.

All I really know is my Rock HD / Digilink II combo makes standard DVD movies (that are mastered well) look just like the 1080i HD broadcasts on any of the HD movie channels. I'd have to actually buy the VP50 and try it out to see for myself if it produces picture quality of equal or better caliber.

I am aware the Rock is all software based, but the hardware side of it is more than just "various pieces plugged together"... isn't that what any hardware is? That argument seems pretty silly to me. As I recall, there is quite a bit of modification and customizations to the Rock's hardware to optimize performance for home theater.

I guess it's nice knowing if I really need HDMI to work I can get an Iscan, but I really want to hang on to my Rock Ruby... it's a big investment.

I was really hoping everyone was beyond the politics and such with TAW... I just want to hear from someone who has tried the 1080P output on the Rock HD or Rock Ruby via DVI out on a RPTV!

Morning Sun,

Very few people start with a first post in the VP Forum. Glad to have you aboard.

We know what you do for a processor, what is your display? I had a storm damaged Rock a step below the HD level.

Phil got in one last little kidney punch as TAW faded away, my insurance agent had asked him directly if they were still in business 2-3 months before the web site died & he informed her that all was well & new products were rolling off the line. The truth would have allowed me to get the replacement processor of my choice fully paid for by my Insurer.

Just a small note to mention the TAW website (http://www.taw.biz/) isn't dead. Stagnated maybe, but not dead. :)

You are right Grendell & sorry for the hijacking. It could not have worked for me any better the way it all settled out.

On with the business at hand. TAW 1080P performance.

Not sure if anyone's going to answer my question... however, one thing I just noticed is that the Crystalio scalers use what they are calling "Pixel Perfect video processing."

That's exactly what TAW called their scaling processing.

I wonder if it's the same person writing the code? Or if these two scalers are related? Or if that's just coincidence?

You are right Grendell & sorry for the hijacking. It could not have worked for me any better the way it all settled out.

On with the business at hand. TAW 1080P performance.

Hi Guys,

sorry for gate-crashing your party!

I'm a new member to the AVS Forum by only a few minutes as i have been trying for around a week now to get some info on my currently "dead" ROCK.
The machine gave symptoms of being slow/sluggish to go through the set-up cycle then eventually not powering up at all.
My local computer guy - I'm in the U.K. (Scotland - tested through and came to the conclusion the motehrboard was faulty - LUCKY STAR K7VAT ver 2.1.
I've tried all over with no success.......you may appear to be correct about Phil....he is a "touch" abrasive and unhelpful - mebe he has a chip on his shoulder - no pun intended.
He claimed he had quite a few ROCKS but he was ONLY selling them at 660$ or I could have a replacement motherboard at ........$660!!!!!!!!?????? I am led to believe these motherboards are VERY old and could only command a few dollars at best!!!!!!

However, has anyone got a reasonably priced ROCK or a LUCKY STAR K7VAT ver 2.1 motherboard they would be prepared to send to Scotland (U.K.)
I use a Seleco Data Graphics 700 crt projector through Denon 5700 amp.

regards all Stateside......Bill

Hi Guys,

sorry for gate-crashing your party!

I'm a new member to the AVS Forum by only a few minutes as i have been trying for around a week now to get some info on my currently "dead" ROCK.
The machine gave symptoms of being slow/sluggish to go through the set-up cycle then eventually not powering up at all.
My local computer guy - I'm in the U.K. (Scotland - tested through and came to the conclusion the motehrboard was faulty - LUCKY STAR K7VAT ver 2.1.
I've tried all over with no success.......you may appear to be correct about Phil....he is a "touch" abrasive and unhelpful - mebe he has a chip on his shoulder - no pun intended.
He claimed he had quite a few ROCKS but he was ONLY selling them at 660$ or I could have a replacement motherboard at ........$660!!!!!!!!?????? I am led to believe these motherboards are VERY old and could only command a few dollars at best!!!!!!

However, has anyone got a reasonably priced ROCK or a LUCKY STAR K7VAT ver 2.1 motherboard they would be prepared to send to Scotland (U.K.)
I use a Seleco Data Graphics 700 crt projector through Denon 5700 amp.

regards all Stateside......Bill

I just fired up my rock pro again and everything seems to work but I don't get any video inputs (no video detected)... the menus come up fine. Does anyone know why this would happen? Do I need to reset or reseat anything?

Danny

I got rid of my Rock HD long ago. It's ancient technology. All it really is is a standard PC motherboard, CPU, and RAM running Windows Millenium and some scaling software Phil paid some engineer to write.

Well did he have someone write it? Or was it just a hacked version of Dscaler? Dscaler was fully open source so any competent C programmer could carve out the processing routines and make their own user interface.

I have often wondered this?

P.S. Dscaler was a great scaler. I used it from 2002 to late 2008 and compared it with various scalers during that time. I always went back to Dcsaler. Last October I finally decided the VP50pro was a worthy replacement.

Not sure if anyone's going to answer my question... however, one thing I just noticed is that the Crystalio scalers use what they are calling "Pixel Perfect video processing."

That's exactly what TAW called their scaling processing.

I wonder if it's the same person writing the code? Or if these two scalers are related? Or if that's just coincidence?


:D oh , and i do not know it , but when you have time , and you can give me the full information , and i will contact you

Not sure if anyone's going to answer my question... however, one thing I just noticed is that the Crystalio scalers use what they are calling "Pixel Perfect video processing."

That's exactly what TAW called their scaling processing.

I wonder if it's the same person writing the code? Or if these two scalers are related? Or if that's just coincidence?

The CII uses the Gennum VXP (GF9450?) or optionally FLI2301 for DI (and scaling too, AFAIK). This term seems to be coincidental. I'll check over my CII manual again, but I think "Pixel Perfect" is what the PMS people use to describe "1:1 pixel mapping" or "native rate", etc. There are few similarities between these processors, if any.


EDIT:

4.6.1 PIXEL PERFECT
Every pixel-based digital display has a native resolution*, so any video source displayed needs to be scaled
from its original resolution (size) to the native resolution of the display for optimum results. If the Crystalio II
output resolution is mapped to the display in 1:1 mode, or pixel perfect mode, this ensures all video processing
and scaling is done by Crystalio II. This is very important because:
• It ensures that the display’s internal scaler is bypassed, allowing you to benefit from the image
processing power of Crystalio II
• It avoids double scaling and processing done to the video source, which would introduce video
artifacts, especially during smooth motion e.g. camera pans
* A display’s native resolution is expressed as number of pixels wide by number of pixels high. For example many DLP projectors are 1280 x
720, so for optimum results all video should be scaled to that number of pixels. Think of this as addressing the exact number of active pixels;
once this has been done as detailed below you have achieved 1:1 mapping, or pixel perfect mode.
To make sure Crystalio II’s output is pixel perfect, please make use of the Crystalio II internal video test patterns
to confirm 1:1 pixel mapping has been achieved. See the examples overleaf:

Hi,

I have an original Taw Rock. [ 5 BNC output }

I think the software has crashed.

Can anyone supply a link for software?

Any version, but I think the newest would be best???

Thanks